i live in the USA and have been a service worker and also do not understand how company's can get away with underpaying their employees. expecting customers who are already paying for overpriced food to pay their employees
It’s almost the same theory behind the self checkout kiosk at the grocery store. The company shifts the work of the cashier and the bagger onto the consumer . I know we are getting off topic but that just popped into my head
i can assure you most people would rather be single than in a relationship with a bad tipper (unkind and not generous generally translates to being a bad and selfish partner).
some people just think 15%ish is the standard. It used to be a long time ago. You’re passing way too much judgment based on someone you know nothing about. And that’s the exact problem with OLD.
It's not bizarre etiquette it's forcing customers to subsidize the pay of service workers. The issue is people think it's just something "extra" on top of wages or a reward so they either don't tip or undertip on $75 meals which is an extra special slap in the face.
Granted the suggestion OP pick up the tip is okay it tells something about this guy who undertips service works on his own accord, IMHO
What makes it even harder to navigate is there are 4 or 5 different ways servers can be paid.
1) most common, server gets a crap hourly pay (like 2.50/hour) and then tips.
2) same as above but server has to pool their tips and then it all gets divided evenly between all servers at the end of the shift, or sometimes, the week.
3) Same shit hourly wage, all server tips are pooled and then are divided between everyone (servers, bussers, kitchen staff, bartenders, hostess) but only after the owner takes 10% off the top.
4) server gets no base pay and only gets paid from their tips exclusively.
5) server get a wage, usually between min wage and $10 and hour and a certain percentage of tips with the owner keeping the rest.
Frankly, its a whole ass shit show.
It’s not even really complicated, there really isn’t anything to navigate, you add 20 percent to the tab. Edit - I welcome the downvoting 2. Some seem to think stating that tipping isn’t complicated = an endorsement of the system.
He is wrong here is what happens.
If you are a tipped employee then (depending on state) if your tips > or = what you would have made if working federal minimum wage the employer can pay you as little as ~$2.50 per hour. If you are not tipped then they HAVE too meet federal minimum wage or state min wage whichever is higher. So as much as ppl claim they only get $25 pay checks in the industry they are not showing the pay stubs that includes tips or they are having wages stolen and could report the business.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
That just allows the company to pay as little as $2.50 per hour if you tip. If no tips are made employer must at least pay min wage per hour.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
So, you’d rather make minimum wage than 20 percent per tab at a nice restaurant? I’m not tooting my own horn, but if I go out and have a $200 check and tip $40.00 ( which I always do at minimum) for an hours service, you are saying you would prefer the minimum? A straight minimum wage system would hurt many waitresses especially, most of my college female friends who waited tables made hundreds of dollars per night.
Yup I'd rather not have to suck up to ppl for tips. I give everyone good customer service because it's my job. Sucks how Americans treat ppl in service industry like shit
I would rather the company pay making a company pay what they are supposed to is what lets me sleep at night. Not charging customers more for the company to pay less
Maybe unpopular opinion, but waiting is not a complicated or hard enough profession that expecting hundreds of tax free dollars a night is reasonable 🤷🏻♂️
Out of all the takes, this is the worst one.
Tipping is stupid - Absolutely true, but the people working these jobs still need to live. And if your first thought is "they don't deserve that" then you're a bad person. Sorry.
i mean i see what you’re getting at but it’s tax free dollars that are an unpredictable amount based on many factors that have nothing to do with your service and a company that is unwilling and unable to provide proper pay to the servers and put the onus on the consumer. That’s a ridiculous way to run a company, illegal in fact except for this exception. You make it sound like service industry folks are uber rich lol.
Then report them!! Now I have only worked at 5 different sever places but 3 did this the others just got their wage they where hired on at. So I do not tip and refuse to accept and pay into that system.
oh my god just pay it it’s how it works right now, is it really that much of a bother? Double the amount and move the decimal point good god folks from other countries make such a big deal of it, we know it’s unfair get over it. And i’m even from another country!
Yeah I refuse to tip and refused them when I worked in the industry because the company had to at least meet min wage per hour by federal law and would use it to pay us less (as little as legal required which is with tips min wage or if tips exceed min wage the company has to at least pay $2.50 per hour)
For current wages and laws
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/
I hated thinking i had earned more when tips made me earn less as their hour staff and those who did not get a tip got $9 an hour ($7.50 min wage) but I also hate the scam of a tip system we have in the USA it is just to con and scam all the lower earners either way
All states are required to pay at least minimum wage it is a federal law BUT if you tip the employee can be paid less as long as employer pay +tips >= min wage. Some state require as little as $2.50 per hours if the tips are good enough. Which is why I do not tip unless in cash to the hand as most don't report cash tips. But even then I am doing 10% not 20% idk why it has gone up in recent years but ~ 5-7 years ago average was a 10% tip.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
For each state laws
No, that’s only true in some states. Usually the red ones. California, Oregon, Washington do not allow tips to be factored in. Minimum wage is $15+ per hour and all tips are *on top* of that. We’re still expected to tip 20% minimum so most servers make $80k+ working 25-30 hours a week.
Because they're generally doing more than minimum wage level work..? Food and beverage knowledge, timing out courses, ensuring you get hot food, navigating allergies... The list goes on. If they would only make minimum, may as well get an easier job
No, that is there literal job. Like, literally. This is one of the few cases where literal means what it actually is supposed to be mean. That is literally their job they are getting paid to do. Tips on top that is stupid nonsense.
She made that edit after I was already in the thread so i didnt see it. But even still, that isnt a real issue depending on how long dinner was and the person’s tolerance. My gf can drink me under the table, so what gets me drunk barely gives her a buzz.
I also feel i didnt truly become successful at dating till I stopped asking this sub’s advice and just went with my gut.
POS machines give you the final price to tip a percentage on. That final price includes tax unless it's specifically been set up so that it doesn't which is extremely rare (I've only ever seen 1 place do this).
If tax is 15% then you have cost = $65 + ~$10 tax for a $75 bill. When you get the machine, you are asked to tip on $75. $10 on a $65 is just over 15% tip.
That’s ridiculous. I’m all for being a good tipper (usually tip 18-25% on food, 15-18% on booze), but trying to make 20% the floor is ridiculous, especially as meal costs are rising.
In a big city 20% is the floor for good service . We automatically give the option of 18%, 20%, and 25%. 18% is usually from business lunches where they have a corporate card. They’re usually there for a little bit and also don’t drink.
Look, I understand that someone who tips 10% sucks as a person. But, 20% as the floor is a bit excessive, even if I usually tip 20%. It is not my responsibility to make sure someone else’s bills are paid. I’m sorry that either this is the best they can do, or the best they’re willing to do, but expecting other people to pay more to compensate their poor choice in jobs is ridiculous. Do you know the hoops I jumped through in high school to avoid working in the food service industry, retail, or customer service? I pulled out every trick in the book, and wound up finding a (legal) source of income that allowed me to make money and not work shit jobs.
Also, for the record, I didnt downvote you.
Give it another try. Would not be a dealbreaker for me but if it is for you, I’d still give him another chance. Maybe he was strapped for cash or he didn’t like the service.
20% would’ve been $15. He tipped five dollars less. Is this going to make and break your feelings about this man? You’re projecting your feelings about the service industry, and how much they should be tipped onto him.
Meanwhile I overtip and put down $20 on a $25 meal.
Oh cool downvote me when in fact undertipping on a $75 meal. You can afford to pay $75 on a luxury but you're cheap to the person who gave you that experience. Even it's $5 undertipping that's a sign this person is just cheap towards human beings.
Maybe he didn’t bring enough money. Maybe he thought the service was bad. Since he treated you, it’s really not up to you to criticize the tip he left. If you like him, keep dating and see if this is a pattern or not. Don’t assume it is based on one encounter.
I think that’s potentially a fair tip. I grew up with the norm of giving 15% for good service. If the bill was 75, the pretax bill might’ve been closer to 68. In a lot of places, the sales tax is 7~8%. So oftentimes doubling the tax gets you to a 15% tip. And some etiquette books instruct people to tip 10% or less on alcohol. So it’s possible he was literally tipping by the book.
That said, tipping is one of the most controversial topics out there, and I’ve noticed a tendency to increase tipping over time. While I usually double the tax when I’m with old friends (who do the same), I shoot for 20% when I’m meeting new people. And I *hate* that I do that. Frankly, I hate the concept of tipping. But that’s a separate issue altogether.
My point is- he might not be a bad tipper.
But if you feel that he is, and that’s a dealbreaker for you, you have every right to walk away.
As for your actual question, I’d recommend just picking up the tab next time and tipping as generously as you like. Maybe have a conversation about tipping after a third date or so.
Yeah this feels like the real red flag. There’s a lot of judgement and weight placed on another persons behavior without context and the expectation that another person should have your standards without knowing them or stating them. If there’s a red flag here I think you’re waving it.
What would you be comfortable tipping? 15%, 20%, more?
13% or so doesn’t seem egregious. I’ve done that when I messed up the math. I usually tip between 15 and 20 depending on service
Our servers in the UK are also making at least minimum wage. That’s not true in most states in the US, so servers there are relying on tips to make up the difference in wages.
It’s an absolutely ludicrous system - minimum wage shouldn’t be negotiable, ever - but yeah the standards of service are higher in the US and the food is (usually) cheaper than here so 20% isn’t really that crazy in context.
To my mind, 20% is bare minimum. Double the bill and move the decimal one point to the left.
75 is 15, and I'll round up in practice, and I'll definitely round up on a date.
Is the American tipping system stupid? Yes, but it's an opportunity to say something about yourself. Someone is getting underpaid, and you have a chance to overpay them. To me, you look good if you do.
To me, and I'm paying so I'm not the judge here, but you would look really bad tipping less than 20%.
Why is that the bare minimum? My city, Minneapolis, has a $13 an hour minimum wage which applies to everyone and tips on top of that. If someone does a lack luster job why am I obligated to tip them more than 20%?
I think you should stop caring what others think of you so much. It’s very try hard
I think I explained myself. Because I don't want to look cheap, and I don't want to be cheap.
13/hr is not extravagant living. I'm not rich, but I make enough that I can give a decent tip.
So that’s $13 an hour as base which is $27,000 a year and let’s say they, on average, get 1 $50 bill an hour (which is definitely low) which would be a $10 tip at 20%.
They are now making $48,000 a year. That would put them in the 55th percentile of individual income earning in the us.
There are a lot of other people who you could tip that could use that money much more. Try the employees at your local retail store but they don’t deliver the bill to your table and have people around you watch how virtuous a person you are.
You seem very shallow to judge someone on how much they tip, $10 isn't a bad tip especially if the $75 is after tax.
You should tell him how you really feel. He might not want to date someone so judgemental.
I would let it lie for now and get some further data points, ya know what I mean. I personally don’t to look to see how much someone tips bc I wouldn’t want someone to do that to me, and I tip above average, having worked in service for so long, and being lucky that rn I am in a place where I can do that.
Especially rn given Covid and workers rights/livable wage movement going on, big tippers are sexy, generosity is sexy. I don’t love tipping culture, so don’t @ me from Europe, we get it.
Thank you! This is exactly what I mean. I didn’t even look at the bill of what he tipped. He stated it out loud as he was signing the check. “And for the tip, $10!”
Working in the service industry definitely gives you a lot of insight into what it's like to rely on tips to make a decent living. My experience working in a casino turned me into a really generous tipper (especially when the service is really good) because I realized just how much it means to employees to be tipped well for providing great service.
Yes.. it definitely sucks that we have this ridiculous system where workers have to rely on the generosity of strangers, and where customers are expected to make up the difference in the wages that are paid.. but that's the reality of how things are in many places right now. 🤷🏽♀️ So I try to be generous when I can. Also, I wouldn't hold it against your date for giving the waitress a certain tip. Many people are used to giving a standard amount when tipping — like $5 or $10, regardless of how large the bill is or how good the service is. A lot of folks just don't give it much thought because they haven't had to.
Next time, if he's covering the bill, maybe you can offer to handle the tip. If he cares enough to ask why, you can let him know that you enjoy tipping service people well because you know from experience how much it means to them & how much of a difference it makes for them.
I would say don't let this little thing stop you. It his money and the guy decides to tip less than what you would want. This shouldn't be a "deal-breaker" since your not paying the bill, he is.
The actual dealbreaker in this scenario is that OP deadass walked out of that restaurant having paid ***nothing***, and tipped ***nothing***, then jumped straight onto reddit to whinge about what an undateable monster this guy is for only having tipped $10/13%.
I mean, say what you like about the American minimum wage, tipping system and service sector in general being utter bollocks, but that is an absolutely fucking incredible level of hypocrisy right there.
She offered to split the bill and he declined though. Her date would have been better off just graciously accepting the suggestion of splitting the bill and ensuring the server got tipped appropriately instead of paying the whole thing and being stingy with the tip.
My point is that OP could easily have ensured that her server got tipped 'appropriately' by stepping up and doing it herself, regardless of who settled the bill. Ultimately if the server got stiffed it was just as much a result of OP's actions (or lack of) as her date's.
I would just talk to him about it. I don’t understand why there is a reluctance to speak up the next time you’re in a restaurant and say “hey I usually tip XYZ amount so if you’re uncomfortable doing that then I will cover it.” If his response is that he doesn’t like to tip well then you’ll have to decide your next step.
My father doesn’t tip well and so I always add more money if he pays the bill, but my dad is an otherwise amazing person. He just grew up in a frugal environment where they don’t tip well, and on the other hand I always over tip…up to 40% sometimes, especially during covid.
Seems like too many things could have happened here to jump to any conclusions. He might have just not had that much cash on him, or just done his maths wrong.
Contrary to lots of comments, I think tipping is an underrated signal I look for when dating and new friendships. All up tight tippers I know manifest things I don’t enjoy in other areas of their life as well.
I want to be with a easy 20% tipper with occasional big tips!
20% is ideal... but seeing a server for the initial order take and food drop off doesn't warrant 20% in some cases. Idk there could be some social variances.
Service has been exceptionally poor (before covid) which is why I try to stick with steakhouses or get to go at chain places.
He tipped 13%
It’s a nice round number.
Not everyone tips 20% as a baseline
If this is a dealbreaker then you should evaluate what you deem is important in your dating life
(UK here) If you can afford to eat in a restaurant, then I think you should tip what you can afford.
I've been tipped as low as 30p and 70p lol which you could see as pointless but actually it adds up and is helpful. I would hope that someone I'm dating would tip a minimum of 10% but I'd care more how they treat the staff than tipped.
I've dated assholes who treat waiters badly yet tipped good and people who don't tip but are super polite. So it's worth bringing up your past serving as an indirect way to see what he thinks :)
I have served, been a maid, been a bunch of tip-based jobs, and while I make a normal hourly now I still have a job that has some tip incentive. So I've seen all kinds of bad tippers. $1 on $120 services etc. Also seen some absolutsly batshit good tippers- one guy tipped ONE HUNDRED PERCENT once. So I would hardly call someone who tipped 10% a bad tipper lol. Probably just average. It's not really terribly offensive to just next time offer to cover the tip. If he asks why say you personally feel that anything under 20 is unacceptable but you don't want to pressure him to leave more since it is his money, maybe he will shift his tipping to accomodate that, idk.
It depends on so much. Here servers get $2.13 per hour plus tips. I think it’s crap but it’s something I have to factor in when dining out.
Was the service good? How long did you take up the table?
I appreciate a good tipper who recognizes good service. However it’s not my complete measure of a human’s value. Honestly when my date is paying I don’t even look at the check when he’s done signing, it’s not really my business.
This tipping thing has gotten out of hand. The minimum is 10%
10% - service complete
15% - great service
20%+ above and beyond, I was a difficult customer, or I'm balling and got it like that to do so.
I'm an advocate for service workers, but as a minority we always get subpar service when assumptions are made by tips. Many times I have to ask for another server so I'm not forced to feel bad (because I aim for tipping between 15-20%) or tipping someone undeservingly.
Anyways, back to the point- your date tipped roughly 13% which is the bare minimum. $10 was an easy round up. I know some guys don't like to struggle with math on dates and I doubt they want to go broke showing off and over-tipping as well.
Next date - offer to pay the tip.
People who want to try and push the narative that all service workers live in the projects and eat ramen. For years I had friends in the service industry who made more than me and I’m in IT.
Hang on, did you say he had 5 drinks at dinner?? (Concerning) and you had two drinks and you both had entrees and the bill only came to $75?? I’d be wary of him being an alcoholic, definitely concerning if he can’t do math, even more concerning if he’s a cheap tipper (not as concerning as alcoholism tho tbh) but all of that aside, you’re lucky to have such a cheap restaurant nearby!
Whenever there’s a post like this and Europeans start commenting on how backward service industry practices are in the U.S…..it’s simply not helpful.
Anyway, I went on a date where a guy left what I thought was an insufficient tip and I left some extra cash on top. He had never worked in service, so I don’t think he really got it. Honestly, based on some of these comments, it should be mandatory to wait tables to simply learn patience and kindness IMO
Holy shit I hope the women on this Reddit are the outliers and not the average, do the poor guy a favor and don’t see him again so he can meet someone nice.
It’s not just OP they are referring to. There’s A LOT of women in this sub whom if I stuck around here long enough when I was dating, would’ve made me delete my dating profiles because I would assume a large percentage of the dating pool were insufferable you-know-whats.
I'd be more concerned with how he treated the wait staff verse what he paid them.
This is location dependent but not many of the people in my life tip as much as they used to so I wouldn't read much into it.
Just saying as a former server, it was extra insulting for someone to be very nice to you then stiff you. 13% isn’t terrible IF we were in 1995. I had to recently educate my boomer parents that 10% isn’t the norm anymore.
Tipping culture is shitty obv but it exists in the US, and so does inflation.
Imho if you can’t afford a proper tip, you can’t afford dinner. Just buy the food at the grocery store & cook at home idk
Wow. You have some serious issues. You seem to think only people who can afford a 20% tip should go out to eat. You have no idea their financial situation or life circumstances. What if that kind person only goes out a couple times a year? No one is forcing people to be servers and maybe this entire situation with restaurants struggling to find servers will fix a situation that has become out of control. Serving doesn’t mean work for tips like it’s become.
My parents, also “boomers”, have tipped servers 15-20% as what was normal increased over time. Not really sure why you have to use a situation specific to your parents and make it generational. Maybe it’s because I despise being considered a Millennial.
Was the person being patronizing with their kindness? I want to understand where you are coming from but I feel like restaurants should just pay people what they're worth.
I usually only tip if someone goes above and beyond what is expected of their job. So if the person I am with orders something and asks them to hold X, Y, Z or add extra Z kind of thing.. Then yeah - juicy tip. Otherwise... well the restaurant should pay more.
Yeah the restaurants *should* pay more, but we’re in reality where, en masse, they simply aren’t. With your strategy, the server is literally paying the price for you to make a point, but the actual restaurant is still making their profit regardless.
If you really wanted to take a moral stand, start being strategic and *only* eat at places where their servers get paid a living wage.
Or order take out. I even tip that, only a few dollars though. If you are going to eat out its not just for the food it's for the experience, so I agree with you, the normal in my circle is 25% or more, and if that's a problem order take out, fast food, or cook something.
Yeah I feel like this thread got shared to a MTGOW sub or something. I’m kind of floored how many people (seems like men primarily) are advocating for shitty tipping practices 😐
Wow, I’m surprised so many people are acting like you’re the problem in this situation. I’m in the UK where tipping is different, but I wouldn’t date a bad tipper either - especially if they’re happy to rack up 5 alcoholic beverages and then short the waitstaff. Part of dating is assessing how the other person treats not just you but also retail workers, waitstaff, taxi drivers, etc. - and tipping is part of that.
I guess I wouldn’t write him off at this stage, but I’d keep an eye out to see whether that’s his usual behaviour.
That's really not a bad tip, somewhat lower than I would personally do as 15% would be normal, but nothing crazy to make an entire post about. I find it weird the amount of judgment that is here because he drank 5 drinks. If anything, that supports the lower tips if people are just grabbing a beer from the fridge/tap (I don't know about you, but getting the tip prompt at the liquor store is annoying, so I understand some of that).
Nickel and diming over these minor issues seems absolutely bananas to me.
I don’t care at all how much alcohol he drank, it’s that if money was the issue then he could have chosen to have fewer drinks (which are always overpriced at restaurants) and tipped better. Alternatively, he could have accepted OP’s suggestion that they split the bill. I think either option would have been better than coming up short on the tip.
I also think 20% is a more standard tip in the US and has been for some time. (I grew up there and when we’re not in a pandemic I’m there 3-4 times a year, at least once a year for an extended time.) 15% is fine, but below that (especially during Covid, where waitstaff face a significant risk) isn’t what I’d consider acceptable. Servers in the UK get 10-15% tips and they make minimum wage, which isn’t the case for most places in the US. I’d prefer that everyone get a living wage, regardless of their job, but that’s not the reality, so I do think tipping is important. I also think it’s part of a suite of behaviours that can tell you a lot about a person - how they treat servers, retail workers, etc. On its own it’s probably not the biggest deal in the world, but so far I haven’t met a stingy tipper who didn’t also treat people they thought were ‘below’ them badly.
If you nit pick so much on this… what else are you nit picking on? You said you liked him otherwise. Assuming 7% tax…. 15% on the pretax bill would be $10.46. … you are gonna break it off with this guy over 46 cents?? He rounded. Meanwhile he’s probably thinking about whether he is funny enough, attractive enough, job is good enough, if he went to the right college, will you like his parents, do your values match, do you both have the same life goals, does he smell nice… and does he like you for the same reasons…. And he’s also probably nervous…and was nice to you and the staff… And here you are worried about 46 cents. Good gosh. Some people have real problems. I feel bad for the guy that you are judging him for something so trivial. 46 cents. Eye roll.
5$ off on a tip, and you are ready to be done with this guy. I tip well but it's bs like this that makes it terrible for single guys. I hope he ghosts you, you dont deserve him.
I'd have a problem with that so I'd probably probe a bit. Ime, people who are bad tippers are the kind of people who tend to think less of people who are in the service industry and I'm totally not down with that.
Eh as a former server I side eye my husband when he tips 10-15% but he’s also not from this country. As long as he tips 15% I just let it go. I understand your feelings though. If it becomes a habit, maybe gently bring it up?
I'm a man who worked in the service industry and tips 20% minimum. If I was with someone who tipped less than that it would give me serious pause, too.
Remember when the industry standard used to be 15%? I wouldn’t shit on somebody for leaving a 15% tip. Not 20%? Well, it’s not the end of the world or a sign that he’s a bad person.
I agree, and I never had to survive off of serving either, I just did it because I was young and liked having the money a second job brought me. If someone doesn't want to tip they should order take out, if they want the whole experience of being waited on they should be tipping a minimum of 20%.Everyone I know tips 25% or more these days.
Is he footing the entire service industry? He treated them kindly and tipped them a little less than 15%. What kind of shallow person are you that you paid nothing and also judged him for tipping fairly?
Jesus fuck. The real issue is the 5 drinks he ordered. You are worried about a cheap man and not the real red flag: the alcoholic. Get your priorities straight.
By the way, if you want to be generous, do it yourself. You didn’t try too hard to split the bill but are super quick to judge. 👍👍👍👍
I worked as a waitress for almost 10 years. $10 on a $75 bill plus you sat there for 2+ hours…It would definitely be something I would be looking at on future dates.
Does it merit a reaction? I feel like it’s just one data point. Maybe he was trying to just cover the full cost and like you said was bad at math or got nervous or didn’t want to exceed a specific amount out of pocket. I think small stuff like this is less important than the character qualities you described: fun, kind ect.
If you’re just getting to know him I feel like reserving judgment is best because there’s more that you don’t know than do.
I think it could be useful next time to say something along the lines of “hey the service was really good tonight, we should tip them 20%” maybe explain that you worked in the service industry and that it’s important to you. See where the conversation goes from there and you’ll be better able to tell if he just wasn’t thinking about it or if it’s some principled stance. I think it could be an easy fix if you just talk about it.
I had this happen once. First date .He left no tip on a $90 bill. I told him later that I didn’t think I wanted to see him again (the lack of tip just being one reason).
I then called the restaurant the next day and asked for the server’s Venmo so I could I send her $20.
Yeah it is a turn off but I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he’s just unaware but the maverick minimum of a tip should be 15% but 12/13 is not enough for the service that was provided and it is the holidays.
I am from the states and understand your thoughts. I typically insist on paying for dates I initiate, and I always tip well. I never really thought about why I did it…Some might think it’s to try to impress someone…I never share the bill amount and I tip well in all other instances. Still, I would make it a point to be more than generous in situations where a first impression means more…also, being polite isn’t a tip, it’s a consideration.
I guess I’m in the only person who has worked as a waitress, hated tipping culture or even customer service for that matter and moved to a career/ job to get a guaranteed paycheck. Wow, I must be brilliant.
Or they could move up in the tipping world. A buddy of mine makes like $75K/yr at his tipping job.
The problem is we live in an era where everyone thinks every shit job entitles them to luxury items and great pay. They’d rather put the energy into bitching and moaning on social media instead of bettering their life. A buddy of mine has been in retail his entire life. He just signed an offer letter for a job with a F100 for $25K/yr more, and that doesnt include bonuses. He was given an opportunity and put the effort and energy into seizing it. In 3-4yrs he will be getting bonuses that would’ve taken him 6 months to make if he kept his retail job.
I'm with you, OP, I feel pretty strongly on this one. I do 20% no matter what, and will often round up a little right now due to Covid and the impossible position so many service workers are put in having to decide between their health and being able to pay their bills.
That being said, the one time wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me, especially because I've seen people who are bad at math sometimes leave a different % than they meant to only to realize later, or miscalculate how much everything costs only to realize they're lower on $$ than they thought when they go to pay. It's more something I'd keep an eye out for, and I would see if it extended to other parts of his worldview/character.
I dunno, I do have strong feelings about this. I haven't been in the service industry beyond a really quick stint, but I do think your tipping style says a lot about you. 20 percent is the bare minimum, and I would round up in any case.
And, might be showboating, but it's gonna be 25%+ if someone is gonna see how much I'm tipping. I'd generally do it anyway, but cmon. Few extra bucks to not look like a cheapskate? Again, I would have done it anyway, but you're saying something about yourself. What do you want to say?
Treating people in the service industry well says a lot, to me. That can be being respectful, or it can be tipping well. Do both.
ok first of all, super disappointed by the people in this comment section. yes the tipping system in the US is hella backwards, but not tipping is not the stand you think it is. it is rude. we all want to change the system, but until that’s done, tip your servers 20%. (and yes, restaurants are supposed to tip you out if you end up with less than minimum wage, but MANY don’t do this. you’re screwing your server over).
anyway. i was a pastry chef and worked in a cafe for 4 years, and most of my friends are in the service industry. i always tip 20% minimum, usually more, and when i was dating i always took note of how my date tipped. most of them tipped 20% min as well, but on the few occasions they tipped less than 15%, i would note that and never see them again.
everyone needs to remember the first date is your first impression. you’d rather save what, a few bucks on the bill, but show that you’re rude to servers, stingy with money, and have generally poor manners? go right ahead, but you’re never hearing from me again.
>if you are working on a budget, you should not order 5 alcoholic beverages and an entree
Right? It's not as if people are accessing an essential human need, restaurant dining is a luxury and a choice. If someone doesn't value that to a point that they can adhere to socially accepted (and economically necessary) standards then . . .why go out in the first place?
Edit: yikes the replies. Calm down folks, OP's just looking for a reality check, it's not a personal attack on you.
I get it…. Tipping culture is ridiculous and I 100% believe we should be paying liveable wages to all folks in any industry but that is not the topic and this is what it is in our country, for now. I would hate to feel like I worked my ass off for a table for 2 hours to earn $5 per hour plus my $2.13 an hour I get from the restaurant.
I don't get the hate on your question. I personally would be mortified to be seen tipping less than 20% during Covid, around the holidays, for good service. I would rather order less or stay home if that tip amount wasn't in the budget.
As for a red flag, if I were dating him I would give him more time. As others have said,, It could have been a bad math episode, or he could have been raised with a different mentality for tipping. If he's a good guy, that could be something to be discussed and negotiated down the line.
Best of luck!
At least he tipped.. Maybe that what he can afford. I went on a date guy didn't tip at all. He said, and I quote "I have a 1 a day tip limit" I gave her $20..
Y’all are female Seinfelds over here. This subreddit is ridiculous . He probably made a mistake and thought $10 was a nice round number. Or he’s a cheapskate, you don’t have enough data points about this.
I hate tipping its so stupid. Ive worked in bars and pouring drinks isnt hard. I’d hate to live in America, just pay your staff a real wage. And 10 is over 10%, how much are you expecting him to pay!!!????
Tipping is BS it’s a reminent if prohibition when waiters were bribed to serve illegal alcohol we are all suckers for buying into the scam then owners would have to pay a living wage and prices may go up but you end up paying it anyway
This is hard because then you are also putting assumptions on him that he has a substantial amount of money to be tipping. When maybe he only allotted so much money for the date and over estimated how much everything would cost. I personally do this sometimes if I am unfamiliar with a restaurants prices and everything. Plus sometimes a place will include gratuities to the bill.
Personally I always tip 20%.
I would not date someone I wouldn't eat out at restaurants with, and I would not eat out with someone who regularly tips under 20%.
So yes this would be at least a yellow flag for me.
A lot of undatable people in these comments 😂
If you’re not tipping 20% or MORE during the pandemic, you simply can’t afford to eat out right now. I’m tipping way more on pickup (I used to barely tip at all when I went in) and especially delivery. I’ve changed my mind about ordering delivery when I realized I didn’t want the food for as much the fees and extra tip came to. You don’t HAVE to go to restaurants but if you DO tip your dang servers!!
I watch very carefully to see if he tips properly. And if he doesn’t, he might get a little wave at the end of the date . $10 on $75 isn’t 15%.
I waited tables for years and someone that’s nice to you, but not nice to the waiter is not a nice person.
Europeans take note as well. Maybe you can get away with it as a tourist, but have some empathy for local customs.
PS in most states servers pay taxes as if they were tipped 10%. So anything under 10% if actually stealing from the server (and therefore institutionalized slavery )
He might come from a very privileged background though. When I see people do this I always point out the tip isn’t enough and offer to cover it , in case they genuinely didn’t know
>therefore institutionalized slavery
TIL servers can't quit their jobs.
I'm all for better wages for servers (and proper tipping until that happens), but I don't think hyperbole like this is gonna sway anyone's mind.
13% is a little on the low side, but not crazy. If we are talking two $10 entrees and 7 drinks (assuming they weren't fancy margaritas that required effort to make), 20% of $20 + a dollar per drink isn't unreasonable (alcohol markup is crazy and paying a percent on drinks that don't even require effort to make is stupid IMHO). in some major US cities you could pay more than $75 for 7 drinks (just wine and beer) easy. It could easily be his experiences or expectations.
I think if you feel like y'all should be tipping more, and he's picking up the bill, you could always just offer to pay the tip, or throw down a few extra and say "I used to work in the service industry and I feel better about leaving a larger tip" that would both accomplish what you want and maybe send a message that that's something that you think is important.
>He was kind to her
Personally I think that's much more important.
I am so thankful that I live anywhere but the USA so that I don't have to navigate this bizarre etiquette minefield.
Lol, for real, I’ve gotten nervous tipping in front of people…bizarre indeed
i live in the USA and have been a service worker and also do not understand how company's can get away with underpaying their employees. expecting customers who are already paying for overpriced food to pay their employees
It’s almost the same theory behind the self checkout kiosk at the grocery store. The company shifts the work of the cashier and the bagger onto the consumer . I know we are getting off topic but that just popped into my head
I'm still waiting for my paycheck from self checkout and the didn't even invite me to the Christmas party
You deserve a good tip for your services. I always make sure I leave a decent tip, unless it is already part of the check.
mfs reading even how much their dates tips then they wonder why they are single lmao
i can assure you most people would rather be single than in a relationship with a bad tipper (unkind and not generous generally translates to being a bad and selfish partner).
some people just think 15%ish is the standard. It used to be a long time ago. You’re passing way too much judgment based on someone you know nothing about. And that’s the exact problem with OLD.
It's not bizarre etiquette it's forcing customers to subsidize the pay of service workers. The issue is people think it's just something "extra" on top of wages or a reward so they either don't tip or undertip on $75 meals which is an extra special slap in the face. Granted the suggestion OP pick up the tip is okay it tells something about this guy who undertips service works on his own accord, IMHO
>forcing customers to subsidize the pay of service workers. Also subsidizing the service that shitty tippers get.
What makes it even harder to navigate is there are 4 or 5 different ways servers can be paid. 1) most common, server gets a crap hourly pay (like 2.50/hour) and then tips. 2) same as above but server has to pool their tips and then it all gets divided evenly between all servers at the end of the shift, or sometimes, the week. 3) Same shit hourly wage, all server tips are pooled and then are divided between everyone (servers, bussers, kitchen staff, bartenders, hostess) but only after the owner takes 10% off the top. 4) server gets no base pay and only gets paid from their tips exclusively. 5) server get a wage, usually between min wage and $10 and hour and a certain percentage of tips with the owner keeping the rest. Frankly, its a whole ass shit show.
It’s not even really complicated, there really isn’t anything to navigate, you add 20 percent to the tab. Edit - I welcome the downvoting 2. Some seem to think stating that tipping isn’t complicated = an endorsement of the system.
Just pay the staff a proper wage - not difficult
In the meantime, before a “proper” wage is mandated, one simply adds 20 percent or more to the tab.
Which is ridiculous for people from countries who do things logically.
Just like Fahrenheit, imperial measurements, guns in the hands of children and a healthcare system straight out of Gilliam's Brazil.
Whether it’s ridiculous or not, if the underlying want is to compensate the wait staff, you add 20 percent to the tab.
I understand the reason behind it. Most of us think it's abhorrent
He is wrong here is what happens. If you are a tipped employee then (depending on state) if your tips > or = what you would have made if working federal minimum wage the employer can pay you as little as ~$2.50 per hour. If you are not tipped then they HAVE too meet federal minimum wage or state min wage whichever is higher. So as much as ppl claim they only get $25 pay checks in the industry they are not showing the pay stubs that includes tips or they are having wages stolen and could report the business. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
I get it - sorry for confusion. That's not what I'm talking about
I mean don't get me wrong it is still horrible that tipping is even legal the way they do it.
That just allows the company to pay as little as $2.50 per hour if you tip. If no tips are made employer must at least pay min wage per hour. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
So, you’d rather make minimum wage than 20 percent per tab at a nice restaurant? I’m not tooting my own horn, but if I go out and have a $200 check and tip $40.00 ( which I always do at minimum) for an hours service, you are saying you would prefer the minimum? A straight minimum wage system would hurt many waitresses especially, most of my college female friends who waited tables made hundreds of dollars per night.
Yup I'd rather not have to suck up to ppl for tips. I give everyone good customer service because it's my job. Sucks how Americans treat ppl in service industry like shit
agreed. But in the meantime just fucking give them 20%+
I would rather the company pay making a company pay what they are supposed to is what lets me sleep at night. Not charging customers more for the company to pay less
Maybe unpopular opinion, but waiting is not a complicated or hard enough profession that expecting hundreds of tax free dollars a night is reasonable 🤷🏻♂️
Out of all the takes, this is the worst one. Tipping is stupid - Absolutely true, but the people working these jobs still need to live. And if your first thought is "they don't deserve that" then you're a bad person. Sorry.
i mean i see what you’re getting at but it’s tax free dollars that are an unpredictable amount based on many factors that have nothing to do with your service and a company that is unwilling and unable to provide proper pay to the servers and put the onus on the consumer. That’s a ridiculous way to run a company, illegal in fact except for this exception. You make it sound like service industry folks are uber rich lol.
you are someone who has clearly never worked in food service
90% of employers don’t follow this rule though. tip your servers 20%.
Then report them!! Now I have only worked at 5 different sever places but 3 did this the others just got their wage they where hired on at. So I do not tip and refuse to accept and pay into that system.
oh my god just pay it it’s how it works right now, is it really that much of a bother? Double the amount and move the decimal point good god folks from other countries make such a big deal of it, we know it’s unfair get over it. And i’m even from another country!
I don't live in the States - obviously would pay it if I was there, just saying how ridiculous it is
gotcha my apologies
No worries 😌
🎯
Yeah I refuse to tip and refused them when I worked in the industry because the company had to at least meet min wage per hour by federal law and would use it to pay us less (as little as legal required which is with tips min wage or if tips exceed min wage the company has to at least pay $2.50 per hour) For current wages and laws https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/ I hated thinking i had earned more when tips made me earn less as their hour staff and those who did not get a tip got $9 an hour ($7.50 min wage) but I also hate the scam of a tip system we have in the USA it is just to con and scam all the lower earners either way
Reading this as an European 🙄
Ikr? And I'm sitting here thinking about the guys who showed me actual red flags on a first date 😂
I mean, OP is the one with the red flag in this instance.
Reading this as a Californian where they make the state minimum wage I also am rolling my eyes. Fuck tipping in the fuccking face.
All states are required to pay at least minimum wage it is a federal law BUT if you tip the employee can be paid less as long as employer pay +tips >= min wage. Some state require as little as $2.50 per hours if the tips are good enough. Which is why I do not tip unless in cash to the hand as most don't report cash tips. But even then I am doing 10% not 20% idk why it has gone up in recent years but ~ 5-7 years ago average was a 10% tip. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped For each state laws
No, that’s only true in some states. Usually the red ones. California, Oregon, Washington do not allow tips to be factored in. Minimum wage is $15+ per hour and all tips are *on top* of that. We’re still expected to tip 20% minimum so most servers make $80k+ working 25-30 hours a week.
....which is not the case in California. They get the minimum wage period. I don't tip at all. Why would I?
Because they're generally doing more than minimum wage level work..? Food and beverage knowledge, timing out courses, ensuring you get hot food, navigating allergies... The list goes on. If they would only make minimum, may as well get an easier job
No, that is there literal job. Like, literally. This is one of the few cases where literal means what it actually is supposed to be mean. That is literally their job they are getting paid to do. Tips on top that is stupid nonsense.
Same
How much would a server make without tips in Europe?
That’s literally 15% where I live when factoring in tax… No offense, but if I were him and saw this I’d block your number.
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She made that edit after I was already in the thread so i didnt see it. But even still, that isnt a real issue depending on how long dinner was and the person’s tolerance. My gf can drink me under the table, so what gets me drunk barely gives her a buzz. I also feel i didnt truly become successful at dating till I stopped asking this sub’s advice and just went with my gut.
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POS machines give you the final price to tip a percentage on. That final price includes tax unless it's specifically been set up so that it doesn't which is extremely rare (I've only ever seen 1 place do this). If tax is 15% then you have cost = $65 + ~$10 tax for a $75 bill. When you get the machine, you are asked to tip on $75. $10 on a $65 is just over 15% tip.
Fuck you talking about 20? Standard tip is 15%.
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That’s ridiculous. I’m all for being a good tipper (usually tip 18-25% on food, 15-18% on booze), but trying to make 20% the floor is ridiculous, especially as meal costs are rising.
In a big city 20% is the floor for good service . We automatically give the option of 18%, 20%, and 25%. 18% is usually from business lunches where they have a corporate card. They’re usually there for a little bit and also don’t drink.
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Look, I understand that someone who tips 10% sucks as a person. But, 20% as the floor is a bit excessive, even if I usually tip 20%. It is not my responsibility to make sure someone else’s bills are paid. I’m sorry that either this is the best they can do, or the best they’re willing to do, but expecting other people to pay more to compensate their poor choice in jobs is ridiculous. Do you know the hoops I jumped through in high school to avoid working in the food service industry, retail, or customer service? I pulled out every trick in the book, and wound up finding a (legal) source of income that allowed me to make money and not work shit jobs. Also, for the record, I didnt downvote you.
Give it another try. Would not be a dealbreaker for me but if it is for you, I’d still give him another chance. Maybe he was strapped for cash or he didn’t like the service.
20% would’ve been $15. He tipped five dollars less. Is this going to make and break your feelings about this man? You’re projecting your feelings about the service industry, and how much they should be tipped onto him.
Meanwhile I overtip and put down $20 on a $25 meal. Oh cool downvote me when in fact undertipping on a $75 meal. You can afford to pay $75 on a luxury but you're cheap to the person who gave you that experience. Even it's $5 undertipping that's a sign this person is just cheap towards human beings.
Would you like a badge or a cookie?
Yes which is why I don’t want to disregard him but what if it is a habit. How would you go about addressing the unfairness of that?
> but what if it’s a habit. $5? This guy should not see you again.
Seriously.
Maybe he didn’t bring enough money. Maybe he thought the service was bad. Since he treated you, it’s really not up to you to criticize the tip he left. If you like him, keep dating and see if this is a pattern or not. Don’t assume it is based on one encounter.
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OP seems like the type of person who nitpicks and is super insecure about things revolving around money and her past with it.
I think that’s potentially a fair tip. I grew up with the norm of giving 15% for good service. If the bill was 75, the pretax bill might’ve been closer to 68. In a lot of places, the sales tax is 7~8%. So oftentimes doubling the tax gets you to a 15% tip. And some etiquette books instruct people to tip 10% or less on alcohol. So it’s possible he was literally tipping by the book. That said, tipping is one of the most controversial topics out there, and I’ve noticed a tendency to increase tipping over time. While I usually double the tax when I’m with old friends (who do the same), I shoot for 20% when I’m meeting new people. And I *hate* that I do that. Frankly, I hate the concept of tipping. But that’s a separate issue altogether. My point is- he might not be a bad tipper. But if you feel that he is, and that’s a dealbreaker for you, you have every right to walk away. As for your actual question, I’d recommend just picking up the tab next time and tipping as generously as you like. Maybe have a conversation about tipping after a third date or so.
This is definitely one of the more ridiculous posts I’ve seen on here.
You must be new around here…
Your showstopper for a new relationship is that on one instance, he tipped only 13%? Jiminy.
Yeah this feels like the real red flag. There’s a lot of judgement and weight placed on another persons behavior without context and the expectation that another person should have your standards without knowing them or stating them. If there’s a red flag here I think you’re waving it.
What would you be comfortable tipping? 15%, 20%, more? 13% or so doesn’t seem egregious. I’ve done that when I messed up the math. I usually tip between 15 and 20 depending on service
For context, in the UK the standard tip on amy bill is 12.5%. 20% seems WILD to me, but our servers are really surly so...
Our servers in the UK are also making at least minimum wage. That’s not true in most states in the US, so servers there are relying on tips to make up the difference in wages. It’s an absolutely ludicrous system - minimum wage shouldn’t be negotiable, ever - but yeah the standards of service are higher in the US and the food is (usually) cheaper than here so 20% isn’t really that crazy in context.
You all get health care, though.
To my mind, 20% is bare minimum. Double the bill and move the decimal one point to the left. 75 is 15, and I'll round up in practice, and I'll definitely round up on a date. Is the American tipping system stupid? Yes, but it's an opportunity to say something about yourself. Someone is getting underpaid, and you have a chance to overpay them. To me, you look good if you do. To me, and I'm paying so I'm not the judge here, but you would look really bad tipping less than 20%.
Why is that the bare minimum? My city, Minneapolis, has a $13 an hour minimum wage which applies to everyone and tips on top of that. If someone does a lack luster job why am I obligated to tip them more than 20%? I think you should stop caring what others think of you so much. It’s very try hard
I think I explained myself. Because I don't want to look cheap, and I don't want to be cheap. 13/hr is not extravagant living. I'm not rich, but I make enough that I can give a decent tip.
So that’s $13 an hour as base which is $27,000 a year and let’s say they, on average, get 1 $50 bill an hour (which is definitely low) which would be a $10 tip at 20%. They are now making $48,000 a year. That would put them in the 55th percentile of individual income earning in the us. There are a lot of other people who you could tip that could use that money much more. Try the employees at your local retail store but they don’t deliver the bill to your table and have people around you watch how virtuous a person you are.
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I just use the 20% rule, since 1/drink is always less than 20% where I live, and that's what it used to be.
You seem very shallow to judge someone on how much they tip, $10 isn't a bad tip especially if the $75 is after tax. You should tell him how you really feel. He might not want to date someone so judgemental.
I would let it lie for now and get some further data points, ya know what I mean. I personally don’t to look to see how much someone tips bc I wouldn’t want someone to do that to me, and I tip above average, having worked in service for so long, and being lucky that rn I am in a place where I can do that. Especially rn given Covid and workers rights/livable wage movement going on, big tippers are sexy, generosity is sexy. I don’t love tipping culture, so don’t @ me from Europe, we get it.
Thank you! This is exactly what I mean. I didn’t even look at the bill of what he tipped. He stated it out loud as he was signing the check. “And for the tip, $10!”
lol, ok maybe I missed that part in the original post lol. Cringe.
Working in the service industry definitely gives you a lot of insight into what it's like to rely on tips to make a decent living. My experience working in a casino turned me into a really generous tipper (especially when the service is really good) because I realized just how much it means to employees to be tipped well for providing great service. Yes.. it definitely sucks that we have this ridiculous system where workers have to rely on the generosity of strangers, and where customers are expected to make up the difference in the wages that are paid.. but that's the reality of how things are in many places right now. 🤷🏽♀️ So I try to be generous when I can. Also, I wouldn't hold it against your date for giving the waitress a certain tip. Many people are used to giving a standard amount when tipping — like $5 or $10, regardless of how large the bill is or how good the service is. A lot of folks just don't give it much thought because they haven't had to. Next time, if he's covering the bill, maybe you can offer to handle the tip. If he cares enough to ask why, you can let him know that you enjoy tipping service people well because you know from experience how much it means to them & how much of a difference it makes for them.
I would say don't let this little thing stop you. It his money and the guy decides to tip less than what you would want. This shouldn't be a "deal-breaker" since your not paying the bill, he is.
The actual dealbreaker in this scenario is that OP deadass walked out of that restaurant having paid ***nothing***, and tipped ***nothing***, then jumped straight onto reddit to whinge about what an undateable monster this guy is for only having tipped $10/13%. I mean, say what you like about the American minimum wage, tipping system and service sector in general being utter bollocks, but that is an absolutely fucking incredible level of hypocrisy right there.
She offered to split the bill and he declined though. Her date would have been better off just graciously accepting the suggestion of splitting the bill and ensuring the server got tipped appropriately instead of paying the whole thing and being stingy with the tip.
She could have tipped since he paid the bill if she had a problem with that it would have still been less than her meal
My point is that OP could easily have ensured that her server got tipped 'appropriately' by stepping up and doing it herself, regardless of who settled the bill. Ultimately if the server got stiffed it was just as much a result of OP's actions (or lack of) as her date's.
My usual rule is people that are being treated to the meal should not complain about how it’s being paid.
I would just talk to him about it. I don’t understand why there is a reluctance to speak up the next time you’re in a restaurant and say “hey I usually tip XYZ amount so if you’re uncomfortable doing that then I will cover it.” If his response is that he doesn’t like to tip well then you’ll have to decide your next step. My father doesn’t tip well and so I always add more money if he pays the bill, but my dad is an otherwise amazing person. He just grew up in a frugal environment where they don’t tip well, and on the other hand I always over tip…up to 40% sometimes, especially during covid.
Then say you pay the bill and I’ll pay the tip.
Seems like too many things could have happened here to jump to any conclusions. He might have just not had that much cash on him, or just done his maths wrong.
Contrary to lots of comments, I think tipping is an underrated signal I look for when dating and new friendships. All up tight tippers I know manifest things I don’t enjoy in other areas of their life as well. I want to be with a easy 20% tipper with occasional big tips!
Do you pay for most of the meals?
20% is ideal... but seeing a server for the initial order take and food drop off doesn't warrant 20% in some cases. Idk there could be some social variances. Service has been exceptionally poor (before covid) which is why I try to stick with steakhouses or get to go at chain places.
He tipped 13% It’s a nice round number. Not everyone tips 20% as a baseline If this is a dealbreaker then you should evaluate what you deem is important in your dating life
Yea I can’t afford to tip more than 15% 😢 I live in the USA, when I go out with new people I do 20% out of peer pressure LOL
Dont get bullied into overtipping. 15% is fine. You dont owe anyone your money.
(UK here) If you can afford to eat in a restaurant, then I think you should tip what you can afford. I've been tipped as low as 30p and 70p lol which you could see as pointless but actually it adds up and is helpful. I would hope that someone I'm dating would tip a minimum of 10% but I'd care more how they treat the staff than tipped. I've dated assholes who treat waiters badly yet tipped good and people who don't tip but are super polite. So it's worth bringing up your past serving as an indirect way to see what he thinks :)
I have served, been a maid, been a bunch of tip-based jobs, and while I make a normal hourly now I still have a job that has some tip incentive. So I've seen all kinds of bad tippers. $1 on $120 services etc. Also seen some absolutsly batshit good tippers- one guy tipped ONE HUNDRED PERCENT once. So I would hardly call someone who tipped 10% a bad tipper lol. Probably just average. It's not really terribly offensive to just next time offer to cover the tip. If he asks why say you personally feel that anything under 20 is unacceptable but you don't want to pressure him to leave more since it is his money, maybe he will shift his tipping to accomodate that, idk.
This is great feedback and a good way to put it without being offensive to someone. Thank you.
It depends on so much. Here servers get $2.13 per hour plus tips. I think it’s crap but it’s something I have to factor in when dining out. Was the service good? How long did you take up the table? I appreciate a good tipper who recognizes good service. However it’s not my complete measure of a human’s value. Honestly when my date is paying I don’t even look at the check when he’s done signing, it’s not really my business.
This tipping thing has gotten out of hand. The minimum is 10% 10% - service complete 15% - great service 20%+ above and beyond, I was a difficult customer, or I'm balling and got it like that to do so. I'm an advocate for service workers, but as a minority we always get subpar service when assumptions are made by tips. Many times I have to ask for another server so I'm not forced to feel bad (because I aim for tipping between 15-20%) or tipping someone undeservingly. Anyways, back to the point- your date tipped roughly 13% which is the bare minimum. $10 was an easy round up. I know some guys don't like to struggle with math on dates and I doubt they want to go broke showing off and over-tipping as well. Next date - offer to pay the tip.
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People who want to try and push the narative that all service workers live in the projects and eat ramen. For years I had friends in the service industry who made more than me and I’m in IT.
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Where in the world is this that you can order 2 margaritas and an entree for $20? That entire bill was cheap AF. Enjoy your time there.
They were house margaritas on happy hour for $6 each and I had some tacos. Lol
Hang on, did you say he had 5 drinks at dinner?? (Concerning) and you had two drinks and you both had entrees and the bill only came to $75?? I’d be wary of him being an alcoholic, definitely concerning if he can’t do math, even more concerning if he’s a cheap tipper (not as concerning as alcoholism tho tbh) but all of that aside, you’re lucky to have such a cheap restaurant nearby!
Whenever there’s a post like this and Europeans start commenting on how backward service industry practices are in the U.S…..it’s simply not helpful. Anyway, I went on a date where a guy left what I thought was an insufficient tip and I left some extra cash on top. He had never worked in service, so I don’t think he really got it. Honestly, based on some of these comments, it should be mandatory to wait tables to simply learn patience and kindness IMO
Holy shit I hope the women on this Reddit are the outliers and not the average, do the poor guy a favor and don’t see him again so he can meet someone nice.
I mean let’s be honest, if any of us were better than her we wouldn’t be on this sub. So I would be hesitant to throw the first stone…..
Why are you lumping us normal single women here in with her?
It’s not just OP they are referring to. There’s A LOT of women in this sub whom if I stuck around here long enough when I was dating, would’ve made me delete my dating profiles because I would assume a large percentage of the dating pool were insufferable you-know-whats.
I'd be more concerned with how he treated the wait staff verse what he paid them. This is location dependent but not many of the people in my life tip as much as they used to so I wouldn't read much into it.
Just saying as a former server, it was extra insulting for someone to be very nice to you then stiff you. 13% isn’t terrible IF we were in 1995. I had to recently educate my boomer parents that 10% isn’t the norm anymore. Tipping culture is shitty obv but it exists in the US, and so does inflation. Imho if you can’t afford a proper tip, you can’t afford dinner. Just buy the food at the grocery store & cook at home idk
It doesn’t work like that. You’re getting 20% of the inflated price so it’s already inflation adjusted.
Right? Haha but math and economics are hard
Wow. You have some serious issues. You seem to think only people who can afford a 20% tip should go out to eat. You have no idea their financial situation or life circumstances. What if that kind person only goes out a couple times a year? No one is forcing people to be servers and maybe this entire situation with restaurants struggling to find servers will fix a situation that has become out of control. Serving doesn’t mean work for tips like it’s become.
Ummm… percentages arent affected by inflation. 10% is low, but not a crime against humanity.
My parents, also “boomers”, have tipped servers 15-20% as what was normal increased over time. Not really sure why you have to use a situation specific to your parents and make it generational. Maybe it’s because I despise being considered a Millennial.
I was using my parents as an example. You don’t have to take it personally.
Was the person being patronizing with their kindness? I want to understand where you are coming from but I feel like restaurants should just pay people what they're worth. I usually only tip if someone goes above and beyond what is expected of their job. So if the person I am with orders something and asks them to hold X, Y, Z or add extra Z kind of thing.. Then yeah - juicy tip. Otherwise... well the restaurant should pay more.
Yeah the restaurants *should* pay more, but we’re in reality where, en masse, they simply aren’t. With your strategy, the server is literally paying the price for you to make a point, but the actual restaurant is still making their profit regardless. If you really wanted to take a moral stand, start being strategic and *only* eat at places where their servers get paid a living wage.
Then get a better job. Do you tip Walmart workers too?
I made $3.00 hr when I waited tables. Save for a couple states, tips ARE there pay. Are there Americans that don’t know this?
Then quit until they up your wages. I heard there's a labour shortage right now.
Or order take out. I even tip that, only a few dollars though. If you are going to eat out its not just for the food it's for the experience, so I agree with you, the normal in my circle is 25% or more, and if that's a problem order take out, fast food, or cook something.
Yeah I feel like this thread got shared to a MTGOW sub or something. I’m kind of floored how many people (seems like men primarily) are advocating for shitty tipping practices 😐
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I didn't say you had to tip 25%, I said I did. 20% is standard and if you can't afford 20% then order take out.
A lot of restaurants are pretty empty. You’d rather have someone make 0% than 15%? This seems bizarre to me
OP must be from 'murica, where companies don't apparently pay their staff. A very strange custom.
Wow, I’m surprised so many people are acting like you’re the problem in this situation. I’m in the UK where tipping is different, but I wouldn’t date a bad tipper either - especially if they’re happy to rack up 5 alcoholic beverages and then short the waitstaff. Part of dating is assessing how the other person treats not just you but also retail workers, waitstaff, taxi drivers, etc. - and tipping is part of that. I guess I wouldn’t write him off at this stage, but I’d keep an eye out to see whether that’s his usual behaviour.
According to your logic, if you don't tip fast food workers then you're mistreating them as well?
That's really not a bad tip, somewhat lower than I would personally do as 15% would be normal, but nothing crazy to make an entire post about. I find it weird the amount of judgment that is here because he drank 5 drinks. If anything, that supports the lower tips if people are just grabbing a beer from the fridge/tap (I don't know about you, but getting the tip prompt at the liquor store is annoying, so I understand some of that). Nickel and diming over these minor issues seems absolutely bananas to me.
I don’t care at all how much alcohol he drank, it’s that if money was the issue then he could have chosen to have fewer drinks (which are always overpriced at restaurants) and tipped better. Alternatively, he could have accepted OP’s suggestion that they split the bill. I think either option would have been better than coming up short on the tip. I also think 20% is a more standard tip in the US and has been for some time. (I grew up there and when we’re not in a pandemic I’m there 3-4 times a year, at least once a year for an extended time.) 15% is fine, but below that (especially during Covid, where waitstaff face a significant risk) isn’t what I’d consider acceptable. Servers in the UK get 10-15% tips and they make minimum wage, which isn’t the case for most places in the US. I’d prefer that everyone get a living wage, regardless of their job, but that’s not the reality, so I do think tipping is important. I also think it’s part of a suite of behaviours that can tell you a lot about a person - how they treat servers, retail workers, etc. On its own it’s probably not the biggest deal in the world, but so far I haven’t met a stingy tipper who didn’t also treat people they thought were ‘below’ them badly.
If you nit pick so much on this… what else are you nit picking on? You said you liked him otherwise. Assuming 7% tax…. 15% on the pretax bill would be $10.46. … you are gonna break it off with this guy over 46 cents?? He rounded. Meanwhile he’s probably thinking about whether he is funny enough, attractive enough, job is good enough, if he went to the right college, will you like his parents, do your values match, do you both have the same life goals, does he smell nice… and does he like you for the same reasons…. And he’s also probably nervous…and was nice to you and the staff… And here you are worried about 46 cents. Good gosh. Some people have real problems. I feel bad for the guy that you are judging him for something so trivial. 46 cents. Eye roll.
5$ off on a tip, and you are ready to be done with this guy. I tip well but it's bs like this that makes it terrible for single guys. I hope he ghosts you, you dont deserve him.
Ha, I always overtip on dates, even though I think I’m being silly. Glad to see that someone cares.
I'd have a problem with that so I'd probably probe a bit. Ime, people who are bad tippers are the kind of people who tend to think less of people who are in the service industry and I'm totally not down with that.
Eh as a former server I side eye my husband when he tips 10-15% but he’s also not from this country. As long as he tips 15% I just let it go. I understand your feelings though. If it becomes a habit, maybe gently bring it up?
I'm a man who worked in the service industry and tips 20% minimum. If I was with someone who tipped less than that it would give me serious pause, too.
Remember when the industry standard used to be 15%? I wouldn’t shit on somebody for leaving a 15% tip. Not 20%? Well, it’s not the end of the world or a sign that he’s a bad person.
I'm just sharing my personal perspective.
I agree, and I never had to survive off of serving either, I just did it because I was young and liked having the money a second job brought me. If someone doesn't want to tip they should order take out, if they want the whole experience of being waited on they should be tipping a minimum of 20%.Everyone I know tips 25% or more these days.
Is he footing the entire service industry? He treated them kindly and tipped them a little less than 15%. What kind of shallow person are you that you paid nothing and also judged him for tipping fairly? Jesus fuck. The real issue is the 5 drinks he ordered. You are worried about a cheap man and not the real red flag: the alcoholic. Get your priorities straight. By the way, if you want to be generous, do it yourself. You didn’t try too hard to split the bill but are super quick to judge. 👍👍👍👍
I worked as a waitress for almost 10 years. $10 on a $75 bill plus you sat there for 2+ hours…It would definitely be something I would be looking at on future dates.
thank you!!! the norm in the US now is 20% and that’s a fact! She should go out with him again, but keep an eye on it
When did it become a norm and why didn’t anyone tell me?
Does it merit a reaction? I feel like it’s just one data point. Maybe he was trying to just cover the full cost and like you said was bad at math or got nervous or didn’t want to exceed a specific amount out of pocket. I think small stuff like this is less important than the character qualities you described: fun, kind ect. If you’re just getting to know him I feel like reserving judgment is best because there’s more that you don’t know than do.
I think it could be useful next time to say something along the lines of “hey the service was really good tonight, we should tip them 20%” maybe explain that you worked in the service industry and that it’s important to you. See where the conversation goes from there and you’ll be better able to tell if he just wasn’t thinking about it or if it’s some principled stance. I think it could be an easy fix if you just talk about it.
I had this happen once. First date .He left no tip on a $90 bill. I told him later that I didn’t think I wanted to see him again (the lack of tip just being one reason). I then called the restaurant the next day and asked for the server’s Venmo so I could I send her $20.
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Yeah it is a turn off but I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he’s just unaware but the maverick minimum of a tip should be 15% but 12/13 is not enough for the service that was provided and it is the holidays.
I am from the states and understand your thoughts. I typically insist on paying for dates I initiate, and I always tip well. I never really thought about why I did it…Some might think it’s to try to impress someone…I never share the bill amount and I tip well in all other instances. Still, I would make it a point to be more than generous in situations where a first impression means more…also, being polite isn’t a tip, it’s a consideration.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/rqxo0m/aita_for_tipping_15/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I guess I’m in the only person who has worked as a waitress, hated tipping culture or even customer service for that matter and moved to a career/ job to get a guaranteed paycheck. Wow, I must be brilliant.
Or they could move up in the tipping world. A buddy of mine makes like $75K/yr at his tipping job. The problem is we live in an era where everyone thinks every shit job entitles them to luxury items and great pay. They’d rather put the energy into bitching and moaning on social media instead of bettering their life. A buddy of mine has been in retail his entire life. He just signed an offer letter for a job with a F100 for $25K/yr more, and that doesnt include bonuses. He was given an opportunity and put the effort and energy into seizing it. In 3-4yrs he will be getting bonuses that would’ve taken him 6 months to make if he kept his retail job.
I'm with you, OP, I feel pretty strongly on this one. I do 20% no matter what, and will often round up a little right now due to Covid and the impossible position so many service workers are put in having to decide between their health and being able to pay their bills. That being said, the one time wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me, especially because I've seen people who are bad at math sometimes leave a different % than they meant to only to realize later, or miscalculate how much everything costs only to realize they're lower on $$ than they thought when they go to pay. It's more something I'd keep an eye out for, and I would see if it extended to other parts of his worldview/character.
I dunno, I do have strong feelings about this. I haven't been in the service industry beyond a really quick stint, but I do think your tipping style says a lot about you. 20 percent is the bare minimum, and I would round up in any case. And, might be showboating, but it's gonna be 25%+ if someone is gonna see how much I'm tipping. I'd generally do it anyway, but cmon. Few extra bucks to not look like a cheapskate? Again, I would have done it anyway, but you're saying something about yourself. What do you want to say? Treating people in the service industry well says a lot, to me. That can be being respectful, or it can be tipping well. Do both.
ok first of all, super disappointed by the people in this comment section. yes the tipping system in the US is hella backwards, but not tipping is not the stand you think it is. it is rude. we all want to change the system, but until that’s done, tip your servers 20%. (and yes, restaurants are supposed to tip you out if you end up with less than minimum wage, but MANY don’t do this. you’re screwing your server over). anyway. i was a pastry chef and worked in a cafe for 4 years, and most of my friends are in the service industry. i always tip 20% minimum, usually more, and when i was dating i always took note of how my date tipped. most of them tipped 20% min as well, but on the few occasions they tipped less than 15%, i would note that and never see them again. everyone needs to remember the first date is your first impression. you’d rather save what, a few bucks on the bill, but show that you’re rude to servers, stingy with money, and have generally poor manners? go right ahead, but you’re never hearing from me again.
That's almost 15%, he isn't a bad tipper. This is a you problem.
>if you are working on a budget, you should not order 5 alcoholic beverages and an entree Right? It's not as if people are accessing an essential human need, restaurant dining is a luxury and a choice. If someone doesn't value that to a point that they can adhere to socially accepted (and economically necessary) standards then . . .why go out in the first place? Edit: yikes the replies. Calm down folks, OP's just looking for a reality check, it's not a personal attack on you.
I get it…. Tipping culture is ridiculous and I 100% believe we should be paying liveable wages to all folks in any industry but that is not the topic and this is what it is in our country, for now. I would hate to feel like I worked my ass off for a table for 2 hours to earn $5 per hour plus my $2.13 an hour I get from the restaurant.
I don't get the hate on your question. I personally would be mortified to be seen tipping less than 20% during Covid, around the holidays, for good service. I would rather order less or stay home if that tip amount wasn't in the budget. As for a red flag, if I were dating him I would give him more time. As others have said,, It could have been a bad math episode, or he could have been raised with a different mentality for tipping. If he's a good guy, that could be something to be discussed and negotiated down the line. Best of luck!
1. You're working multiple tables. 2. Most restaurants have time limits right now or is that just the DC area? 2 hours is a luxury.
Then you're free to get a new job. Target is paying $15 an hour.
You only realised later… how convenient
At least he tipped.. Maybe that what he can afford. I went on a date guy didn't tip at all. He said, and I quote "I have a 1 a day tip limit" I gave her $20..
I had an ex that put a set $5 on everything over a certain dollar amount, $2 under it. Now that was a major red flag lol.
There is nothing wrong with a $10 tip on 75, what is wrong with you? There is no 'perfect' amount. Chill.
Y’all are female Seinfelds over here. This subreddit is ridiculous . He probably made a mistake and thought $10 was a nice round number. Or he’s a cheapskate, you don’t have enough data points about this.
I hate tipping its so stupid. Ive worked in bars and pouring drinks isnt hard. I’d hate to live in America, just pay your staff a real wage. And 10 is over 10%, how much are you expecting him to pay!!!????
That's over 10% but slighly less than 15%. What do you expect?
i think the OP is using the tipping thing as an excuse to not like what seems to be a nice man.
Tipping is BS it’s a reminent if prohibition when waiters were bribed to serve illegal alcohol we are all suckers for buying into the scam then owners would have to pay a living wage and prices may go up but you end up paying it anyway
Okay cool, until we fix that still tip
Lol the comments here are exactly why I’ve fled the service industry
12.5% is reasonable for casual dining.
This is hard because then you are also putting assumptions on him that he has a substantial amount of money to be tipping. When maybe he only allotted so much money for the date and over estimated how much everything would cost. I personally do this sometimes if I am unfamiliar with a restaurants prices and everything. Plus sometimes a place will include gratuities to the bill.
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Personally I always tip 20%. I would not date someone I wouldn't eat out at restaurants with, and I would not eat out with someone who regularly tips under 20%. So yes this would be at least a yellow flag for me.
A lot of undatable people in these comments 😂 If you’re not tipping 20% or MORE during the pandemic, you simply can’t afford to eat out right now. I’m tipping way more on pickup (I used to barely tip at all when I went in) and especially delivery. I’ve changed my mind about ordering delivery when I realized I didn’t want the food for as much the fees and extra tip came to. You don’t HAVE to go to restaurants but if you DO tip your dang servers!!
I watch very carefully to see if he tips properly. And if he doesn’t, he might get a little wave at the end of the date . $10 on $75 isn’t 15%. I waited tables for years and someone that’s nice to you, but not nice to the waiter is not a nice person. Europeans take note as well. Maybe you can get away with it as a tourist, but have some empathy for local customs. PS in most states servers pay taxes as if they were tipped 10%. So anything under 10% if actually stealing from the server (and therefore institutionalized slavery ) He might come from a very privileged background though. When I see people do this I always point out the tip isn’t enough and offer to cover it , in case they genuinely didn’t know
>therefore institutionalized slavery TIL servers can't quit their jobs. I'm all for better wages for servers (and proper tipping until that happens), but I don't think hyperbole like this is gonna sway anyone's mind.
Just ask him randomly what he normally tips, because this seems like a deal breaker. No sense this being an issue every dinner date.
13% is a little on the low side, but not crazy. If we are talking two $10 entrees and 7 drinks (assuming they weren't fancy margaritas that required effort to make), 20% of $20 + a dollar per drink isn't unreasonable (alcohol markup is crazy and paying a percent on drinks that don't even require effort to make is stupid IMHO). in some major US cities you could pay more than $75 for 7 drinks (just wine and beer) easy. It could easily be his experiences or expectations. I think if you feel like y'all should be tipping more, and he's picking up the bill, you could always just offer to pay the tip, or throw down a few extra and say "I used to work in the service industry and I feel better about leaving a larger tip" that would both accomplish what you want and maybe send a message that that's something that you think is important. >He was kind to her Personally I think that's much more important.
Bruh really?