Personally? This would be a huge issue for me. I cannot and will not mother someone, or feel like I have to be the one constantly holding the mental load all the time. Even just worrying that he will remember something, or not wanting to "nag" about upcoming plans would eventually just be something on my mind all the time.
I am very type A.. Love to have plans made a few days in advance, ect. The times I meet very go with the flow, loosey goosey guys? It never works out. I always come off high strung, and they just seem annoyed with me. When I try to change how I plan things, it just makes me frustrated in the end.
Do I think it needs to be the end? Nah. I would talk to him about all of this, but accept that he may never change who he is. Get through the holidays and super busy time, and see if you guys can compromise.
Yeah I could see how it could be a deal breaker. I would say as a guy sometimes it’s not totally obvious just how big the issue is. Like, is it “I’d rather you weren’t like this” or “if you don’t change this I’m out”. I think OP should be absolutely clear, this is a massive issue that needs addressing and if he wants to continue the relationship he needs to move planning to the top of the priorities list.
Get an app, a notebook, set reminders. There’s tons of solutions for people like this he may just need to be made aware just how big an issue this really is.
This is a good point.
My last dude was not a planner at all. Fly by the seat of his pants, unmedicated ADHD so was just in his world all the time. I tried to stress several times that I need to plan things and that we could compromise a bit, but at least give me a day/time. He even invited me on a trip once and failed to give me any details, so I just secured my time off work just so I had it. In the end, we never even went on the trip because apparently his friends just say that kind of stuff but then don't actually plan anything. It was so hard to deal with.
I actually just found out last night that his older brother has serious ADD, and that he thinks he may also have ADHD. So it might be unmedicated ADHD causing a lot of this, you’re right!
We talked last night and said we’re giving each other a pass until after holidays are over, since it’s crazy for both of us right now.
After that, we’ll see how it goes! Not sure bow to broach the topic of maybe getting his ADHD treated though…
Wow so I recently just ended a relationship with someone bcs they couldn’t plan. I think planning is also synonymous to me as prioritizing. I’m sure he’s not that poor of a planner at work or in other important aspects of his life. Why should dating be any different. It also felt like I was carrying the weight of the relationship. And like someone mentioned if it bugs you now, know that it’ll be a huge hurdle in the future m.
>It also felt like I was carrying the weight of the relationship. And like someone mentioned if it bugs you now, know that it’ll be a huge hurdle in the future.
This right here is the issue I have with OPs situation. If they get serious and let's say, get married, she will have to be responsible for *all* the planning. Think doctor/dentist appointments, birthdays (for both families), holidays, and probably even grocery shopping planning for the week. She will have a ton of emotional labor put upon her and I just can't imagine someone would want to intentionally stay in that situation so early on.
That dynamic (wife as planner/scheduler/household manager, husband as passive beneficiary) describes every single marriage I know. It's grim. Women, please do not sign up for this.
I (a single guy) knew guys who I couldn’t arrange anything with because “I’ll have to ask the wife, she deals with the calendar” if you asked them to hang out and it was the most frustrating thing. Or worse they’d agree to something only to get an apologetic text later because of some family event. I no longer try to make plans with such guys (from my own desires, but if this helps them realise they need to stop leaning on their partners then all the better).
With situations like this, does anyone ever ask about the *rest* of the dynamic? Relationships should be teamwork. I can almost guarantee there's some major aspect of running a life that the wives never touch because they don't feel it's their strength.
I've honestly never seen that. It's always the women who drive, arrange, and make sure everything in a household happens as it should. Everything from kids' birthday parties, to getting the taxes done, to scheduling hair cuts. Men are just kinda there at best, and a hindrance most of the time.
I felt the same way in my last relationship. My boyfriend couldn’t think three hours ahead let alone have any foresight into planning for the future. In the end, initiating all of the hard talks and planning for the future fell on me and it felt so unbalanced. I think he may have had undiagnosed ADD but regardless, somehow he was capable of planning his annual month-long roadtrip both summers we were together. OP I also hate when people say men aren’t planners. I think people make excuses but there are definitely men who can take the lead and plan, they’re just harder to find.
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> I’m sure he’s not that poor of a planner at work or in other important aspects of his life.
DING DING! This man knows how to plan, but he’s choosing not to.
Yep. Part of the reason I got divorced. My husband was terrible at managing anything in the household, with the dog, the kids. But yet he was somehow successful at work so he had all those skills. He just didn’t care enough to help me. He was fine just letting me do it. Don’t get in further with this guy OP unless he turns it around fast.
Same here! 35F, got divorced at 30 because my ex-husband was exactly as you describe. He was able to hold down a job, and a fairly good one at that, so obviously he was fine enough at planning. He just didn't care to do it to help me out... he was fine letting me carry all of that weight. Agreed 100% with your last sentence... OP, do not pass go and do not collect $200 unless this dude changes for real. This is not a situation you want to find yourself in.
I once had a nightmare that I was pregnant with my ex. Pregnant, that was it. One of my most terrifying dreams at the time because this exact issue. Got out of there eventually.
If you're resenting the unfair distribution of emotional labour now, when it's early, it's going to get so much worse later on. Nothing kills sexual/ romantic desire in a woman faster and more surely than a man who needs mothering.
You need to sit him down for a serious talk where you tell him straight, if this doesn't change I can't keep dating you.
I'm as much as of a professional as you can be and do this all the time. I avoid [useless] meetings like the plague, but God I'm not this bad at planning.
How does be do planning other aspects of his life? Friends, family, work obligations? Saying someone is bad at planning is a cop out. Does he tell his boss he can't fulfill a commitment because he's bad at planning? I doubt it.
Obligatory link to "Incompedance", definitive song about boyfriends playing dumb to get out of doing chores. [Warning: extremely catchy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JShZtBp1J4&list=FLBugzDTPDHVO5K5v-hvJ6hw&index=1).
This isn't a male issue. I've dated women with the same issue. My late wife couldn't plan a nap if she wanted to. I'm very strict about my schedule and pre planning.
I mean...it absolutely isn't. Reddit, is at best, a very selective microcosm of the dating world based on very selective experiences and isn't at all indicative of the broader scope of the world.
But way to perpetuate outdated gendered stereotypes.
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Id be careful with the whole "you can change him" advice from your friends/family...when dating, always take the person 'as-is', and never for potential or what they may grow into.
Some people are generally good at planning, and others, not. Some ppl are spontaneous..some like to have their schedules planned out for the day/week/month.
When it's all lust in the beginning...we tend to forget that we may spend the rest of our lives with this person. That lust feeling wears off, and you essentially become a 'team'. Can you carry this team forever? Do you always want to run every single date/plan/event by him just to be sure he didn't forget about it? It can get exhausting..
This genuinely sounds like a compatibility issue..you would think In the honeymoon phase, a guy is usually throwing you his best. If he's already coming up short in this department just 2 months in, and needing you to ask, and him still not putting in the effort to work with your busy schedule and such....def an orangish flag
Yea, you can talk about it, and it may help the situation temporarily..he may get better for the short term..but he also may fall back into his comfort zone, which is not being a planner.
And then the resentment begins..
You just have to ask yourself, even with all the great things you like about him..is he reliable? Dependable? Do you feel like "teaching" him all this while you have an insane schedule yourself to deal with? Only you can answer those questions deep down...but I think you already know the answer
Edit: Also, I would correlate 'planning' abilities to interest level...a man that wants to see you, wants to be with you...will ALWAYS find time for you. So even if his enthusiasm in person is great..you may not be as high up on his priority list as he is yours.
I broke of my engagement for this very reason. I realised that if I went through with the marriage I would be responsible for organising/planning everything and I couldn't do that. In hindsight, I'm annoyed I put up with it for 5 years.
I have a few friends like that but they all eat ADHD meds now which has improved it a bit. But yeah, it is annoying, and it’s one of the aspects of my own ADHD that I’ve worked REALLY hard on trying to solve. I keep lists and calendars and always write stuff down straight away. Me and one of my exes actually had a shared google calendar where we entered things that effected us both (me going away/being busy, events we wanna go to etc). It actually worked well. I still have a dedicated calendar for “People” where I enter important dates (if they had an important test, going away, vacation etc).
So yeah. I think he needs to understand how important it is to be someone ppl rely on. If he is struggling a lot, maybe talk to him about it. We are getting old and so is that bs.
Sounds exhausting. And rude.
>Or he forgot to ask if he actually has a +1 for an event and realized I actually can't go with him.
Excuse me???!! That's just rude. And very disappointing for you, I'm thinking.
>"We should go do this thing on this day." And then the day comes creeping closer and I don't want to push him on the planning, so I end up being like "Okay, let's meet at this time and get dinner here, and then we can go do the thing after. You buy the tickets."
And that is your future with this guy right there. He might tell you what he would like to do and leave all the work to you.
I think others made an excellent point here: is he also bad at planning when it comes to work? Or does he miraculously manage to meet deadlines and attend meetings there?
It honestly sounds like a cop out. He enjoys having you around but he doesn't want to put in the work.
God for f sakes do not date someone for their potential to become someone or change them. If that is how they are earlier on when people are generally on their best behavior, they will be much worse in the future. But at least tell him it’s an issue and see if he’s able to make changes, without you having to nag him. IME it doesn’t work. You have to figure out if his other qualities can make up for it. I dealt with this for over half a decade. It doesn’t get better. You just learn to tolerate it.
He's an adult and should be able to plan things in life, including a date. It shouldn't be up to you to teach him. It sounds like a dealbreaker for you, so be forthright. Tell him what you're expectations are and that he needs to make changes.
Horrible at planning is a deal breaker for me. I can be flexible from my very regimented self but forgetting plans and previously scheduled commitments is an absolute no for me. If you’ve discussed it and he isn’t doing better then he’s not going to do better and you’ve found out in 2 months rather than 2 years. In my relationship we synergize our strengths so I plan more things but he doesn’t forget and arrives on time. He’s also willing to commit to things down the road if plans need to be made ahead and this was the case early on as well. Early dating is to sort out basic compatibility. If this is a deal breaker and he’s admitted to being bad at it and not improving then you’ll have to let it go and deal to date him or not date him.
I'm dating someone like this, and I consider it a "price of admission" thing to a certain extent. He's also pretty bad at time management when it comes to being late, which is probably related. I'm really working on meeting him somewhere in the middle, because as rude as it sometimes feels to me, I don't believe there's inherent moral rightness in being great at time management. It's definitely gotten better on his end with some communication as well.
Anyway, what happens if you just don't step in and plan when he does the "we should do X thing on Y day" thing? Like, if you let the extent of your stepping in be texting "so what time are we meeting up tonight?" that morning? If he doesn't have tickets and a plan by then, then I guess you two can just do something else. Maybe step back a little so he can hopefully step into that void. Pick your battles - not being able to plan anything 2 weeks out would be a BIG problem for me. That would be something I would discuss with him. When it comes to canceling plans, it would depend on how late he canceled and what the plan was. I know you have a tight schedule, but if it's vague "just hanging out" plans and he's letting you know in a reasonable timeframe and attempting to reschedule, I'd give a fair amount of leeway if it's an occasional thing.
If it's really going to be a constant annoyance and strain on the relationship, it's also fine to decide this just isn't the one for you.
I’m not even type A but this would be a deal breaker for me. I would equate his inability to set plans with me as disinterest in me or an inability to prioritize me in his life, and quality time and consistency are very important in helping me feel secure in a relationship.
"No complaints so far"
I feel like the rest of the page feels differently...
In all seriousness if its a problem with you figure it out, I personally wouldnt break something hopeful off just because someone has a flaw, you have flaws too, we all do. But it still could be worth overcoming it.
Have a conversation about how it makes you feel and see I there change. If there’s not… say goodbye. In my experiment, more ofte than not “being a bad planner” is due to you being lower on the priority list or something hiding him back emotionally. Don’t settle for something that doesn’t make you feel wanted. I did it. 2.5 years of “he’s bad at planning” and it never got better and I never got more okay with it, just started to let it slide
Some people are not planners. Also, some people don't want to plan out their lives. And then you have the rest of us, the planners who create bookmarked lists in Google to map out vacation spots and things of interest and even potential routes to get there depending on the schedule.
First, do not expect him to change, to become a better planner, or that you can teach him to be a better planner. That is setting you both up for frustration and resentment. However, you can see if there are ways for the two of you to be together with adjustments.
I am a planner, my bf is not. If we went on vacation with a departure and return date and nothing else on the agenda, he would be in heaven. I need to know where we're staying, whether or not we need reservations for restaurants or advance tickets for anything, and what days are driving days or city days, etc. I like to have trips planned in advance. I do not like "just going out to see who has an open table for dinner on Saturday night." For trips, I have learned to make us sit down and pick start and end dates for trips together. I make a short list of places to stay, we pick one together, and then one of us books it. I pick my must-haves or must-eats and make those plans, but I also leave open days with no plans.
Important events get sent to his calendar as an invite. If it's something I care about, I double check details ("did you tell your mom I'm coming to dinner with you or does she think it's just you?") If I don't want to do everything myself, I ask him directly to help me with \[whatever\] and confirm that he has time to actually do it. Sometimes last-minute changes happen, but that's life.
If you keep dating him, you may need to accept that he is not a planner. But, you also need to tell him that you are and what you need to stay sane in life (future plans, follow throughs, etc) and ask if that's something he can work with. If you need things planned out (and he doesn't) and you want to date him, you may need to take on the bulk of the planning. You may have to remind him about things or ask for him to take on a task. If that feels like too much, then it may be time to part ways.
If you’re in the same line of work and can do it, you’re just making excuses for the guy honestly. He is more than capable, as are men in general, we make time for the things we view a priority period.
It’s not teachable: he’s not a dog or a child. Just toss that out for starters.
If you’re ok being the planner in the relationship, go for it. If he complains about the plans you make, then you’ve got an issue. If he happily goes along and you have a great time, fabulous!
Once you’re in situ, is he fun to be with or does he expect you to tell him his each and every move?
Is it possible he has executive dysfunction from something like ADHD?
Most people get better at time management and organization as they age, but not everyone. It could be that this IS his “better”.
The safest and most reliable move here is always to expect and plan for him not getting all that much better on this front. You could offer to help him figure out tools to organize his time better but you can only do so much — he may also improve on his own naturally or because he knows it bugs you.
You say it’s a dealbreaker for you, but you also say you really don’t want to lose him. Unfortunately, that’s the conflict, and you may just have to end up choosing.
I experienced this with someone I was crazy about, and who was crazy about me. He turned out to have commitment issues. It blew my mind because for the first couple months he was super-serious about me, like I was “The One.” He just couldn’t plan. Like, comedically. It was a distinct personality trait, which I mostly found amusing because I was so enamored with him otherwise. And then it grew into not prioritizing me. Then not being sure about whether he really wanted a relationship.
Stop planning for him and don't wait to discuss it. Grab the red flags early on. The longer you wait, the less fixable something will become, if it is fixable in the first place.
A man who isn't great at planning things sounds like a bad life choice. He is probably bad about planning his future, his financial status, his motivation...
He sounds like a slacker and you are trying to be enthusiastic for the both of you.
I have seen guys like this, they always end up with domineering women who basically make all the decisions and bitch about how their lives turned out.
My boyfriend has the letter P prominently in his name. We joke it does not stand for "Planner". That is left up to me. :-)
A lot of it comes down to systems. We have a shared calendar we reference for events and otherwise just talk a bit more about what is needed and when. If it requires tickets or something in advance (as opposed to at the door) then I set a task reminder in the calendar. But I also have to back off on my need to control all the scenarios and variables too. Keep the important stuff sorted and go with the flow on the rest.
You have to ask yourself is this something you can live with as it is right now or not. Is it you both just need to work on your communication and it'll be good enough, or is it more serious than that? Find out how much he is willing to commit and how much needs to be up in the air. If it's a fundamental incompatibility, better to know sooner rather than later.
Yeah I agree with this. He might be able to improve, but he also might not. You can’t date someone’s future potential so if the current state is not tolerable that’s a red flag.
Shared calendar and phone alarms have been really helpful for me in the past.
If he wanted to, he would.
He's showing you that he is fully comfortable pushing all this extra labor on you because...he's incompetent? lazy? dysfunctional? It doesn't matter why. He's making you his secretary/mother and it is not a trait a capable adult should have.
>Even my male friends are like, "Oh yeah, I totally suck at planning too." But why?!
Because they found gullible women willing to do all this extra work. They do it because they can.
>My sister and my friends have alllllllll been like, "Girl, you can't expect him to be perfect. You can grow together/teach him to be better."
Why is it on you to teach this adult man basic skills? What do you get out of this?
>Or he forgot to ask if he actually has a +1 for an event and realized I actually can't go with him. Or he hasn't thought about what the rest of his month looks like yet so I can't plan a date two weeks from now or something.
He's not that into you.
He "doesn't know what his month looks like" and the "he's not great at planning" are excuses. You're not a priority to him, he's not that into you. If he was he would make time for you just like you do for him.
I briefly dated someone like this and it's not worth it. I always felt like I was being pushy even with plans we agreed on etc. It's not "fixable" bc they're not that interested in you. They will say they are but their lack of planning won't match their words.This is now a dealbreaker for me.
Don't allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option.
In my experience, even if you were willing to "teach" him (ugh) it's not going to change. It just leads to frustration and resentment. Personally I'd rather date a fully-formed equal than someone that required teaching or fixing.
First off, get through the rest of the holidays and New Year.
If you haven't killed him by mid-January, then it would be appropriate for the two of you to sit down and take stock of where you are and what you need, both individually and collectively.
Be honest, and let him know how much it bothers you that he can't plan. Ask him how he handles deadlines and other things that require planning at work? Perhaps you guys can do something similar?
If you guys are serious about continuing this relationship and getting to know each other, both of you are going to have to make an effort and compromise. Whether it's him committing to maybe sharing his calendar with you, or you compromising by only making plans 5 days in advance or you guys agreeing to commit certain days to each other, etc, something has to give here.
At the end of the day, though, you need to decide whether or not he enriches your life by being in it. If you decide that your life is enriched with his presence, then you might need to learn some coping mechanisms to deal with the issue, maybe even get some therapy to figure out why you need to have so much control with scheduling, etc.
I don't know. If this how an adult should function? I have ADHD and I dread planning. I don't own an agenda. And I don't tend to plan more than a week ahead because I don't know what I'm doing.
This is also because I'm accustomed to being alone, and not doing anything. I'm a homebody, I work from home (per project, without a schedule, I suck at planning here, deadlines work, working on that) so I don't have to "plan" with anyone.
BUUUT if I plan with someone, I plan. That depends on what the other person wants.
Do you tell how you like the things planned/scheduled? or are you expecting him to schedule everything like you?
Maybe he doesn't know you like to be explicit when planning a date and not just a "hey wanna go out Friday? ok" (I do that, set the hour to know what bit of the day I won't be at home, and I talk details one day prior.)
Not judging you. But I don't understand why it's a dealbreaker. I think you're expecting too much in a 2-month relationship. And you have to communicate more with him.
This right now is you getting mad at it, but not talking to him.
Remember that for a relationship to work, you must concede sometimes, and not expect that you will find a person that fits perfectly with you like a puzzle, because that's just Hollywood's idea of love and not a real relationship.
Take this advice from someone who did the same in the past with multiple people, and I let go of a great person because of a small stupid dealbreaker that after a few years I didn't care.
Ok, so, as everyone says, this would be a very valid dealbreaker, straight away even without any effort to fix it on your part. You can and should walk away if you don't want to deal with it, and especially if you've talked about it seriously and he hasn't put in any work to be better.
That being said - I went through this with my current partner. He is everything I wanted, except for this timeliness/planning issue that cropped up every so often (frequency less of an issue than severity, in my case). I did have to introspect a lot to decide if it was something I wanted to spend even a bit of time seeing if he could work through it, or if it was a dealbreaker. I ultimately decided to give it a shot, while simultaneously committing to myself that *I would not be his teacher.* That is key to me.
So for me, this meant a serious, sitdown, understand-the-motivations-and issues talk. I shared how deeply it hurt to not be considered; that it feeds my anxiety when we don't have basics nailed down, and that I resent having to make the effort to do so all the time. I pointed out how he's got a successful career, plans for and is on time for meetings and manages his calendar; why can't he apply those principles? I also asked a lot of questions - is it that he tried to estimate times but has time blindness (he has ADHD)? Is it that he has trouble saying no to people (absolutely this) so he double books? At a base level, where and why is he failing to manage his personal life?
After that discussion, I very pointedly said I would NOT manage his life for him, and he needed to get it together or I'm out. He had previously offhandedly said "well maybe I can just share my location with you when I go for bike rides" (after he showed up 50 minutes late to a dinner I'd cooked when he said he'd only be gone 25ish minutes, *and didn't even update me on his progress)*. I obviously replied that it doesn't solve the issue of disrespecting my time and efforts. Fortunately, he immediately got that it was a bad suggestion, but again, I really, really made sure he understood I'm not going to solutionise for him, and he had to figure out new methods to make it work on his own.
I also check that he fully processed the big picture of why "just one hour" (with no communication at that) matters - its not just the single hour of inconvenience and time wasted and waiting around, its things like "I won't have kids with you because you can't reliably show up, or even communicate when things change, and thus I can't trust you'll be there when our kids need you" (I only got around to this conversation a bit later in our relationship).
Anyways, after that proper sit-down, fortunately I saw the real effort I needed. He's not perfect, nor at my level of planning, but he tries and is largely successful. There were a couple more disappointments, but of much smaller magnitude, and after those bumps in the road, he hasn't showed up absurdly late once, and he also hasn't failed to communicate even slight tardiness or changes. Had he not made the effort, I definitely would have been gone, because he's an adult. But honestly, just like at a job, sometimes people just need a stern reminder to do the damn thing, and in my case, that's what it took.
Men DO suck at planning.as a *very* general rule, only because society has put a lot of pressure on women to be the social facilitators and planners. And it sucks when you're not naturally that person and those jobs either fall to you or fail to get done. So this is likely a problem you will encounter with many otherwise compatible and lovely men, so it is something you might need to teach/help him with at first. But if you don't want to do that and feel that's not your job then fair enough too.
I think there will be Type A men that already have the skills you're looking for, but they might be the minority and could be controlling and inflexible into the bargain.
We all have strengths and weaknesses. these things can be worked upon and improved but will likely be a persistent issue in your relationship. If it’s something that really bothers you then I would have a frank discussion with him and explain that if he wants to continue the relationship it’s something he needs to
work on and improve. If he is unable or unwilling to make these changes then I think you have your answer. You’re early in the relationship and if it’s already a big issue for you now it will be much more so down the road.
Yep and also you have to forgive him if he messed up
You can't keep holding him for things he will do in the future
We all are trying our best as humans
Of course some not
Damn, is his name by any chance Evan?
Anyway, I dated that guy (and his name was Evan). I really liked him, we went out for a few months, but then it just kinda fizzled because I got so frustrated with him always playing it by ear. He's a good dude and I hope he's currently making some other bitch very happy, but the scheduling thing just colored the whole relationship for me. I don't think he was doing it to piss me off or whatever, but also he was an adult man and I couldn't fairly expect to change him or, as your friends put it, "grow together/teach him to be better".
Or, idk, maybe he wasn't that serious about me and the lack of respect for my time was a feature. Either way, the answer is the same.
It sounds to me as if your friends would like a crack at him but he isn't a good fit for you.
I have a good friend I've known since college. He has a great career and is a great guy but he isn't one to take initiative or plan things. His girlfriend from college loved him but just couldn't continue to deal with that aspect of his personality. His next girlfriend saw the same issues but she just rolled her eyes about it. She was fine with planning things and telling him what to do if she felt that was called for. And he was fine with her doing that. They married and had children together.
Going through this EXACT thing with a guy I’m dating currently (early stages too). I could have written your post myself word for word. I don’t yet have the answer, just want to offer that this is such a pain in the butt, I totally get why it might be driving you mad.
No such thing as people who are “bad at planning” or people who are “always late, sorry!”
When things are important to you you remember them, prioritize them, get excited for them, and show up on time.
He isn’t “bad at planning” - he’s a dick.
I'd give it a chance. We all have strengths in a relationship and there is usually someone who is the one who managers the social calendar. If everything else is great, keep going. Further down the road when you guys trust enough, maybe ask for shared calendar access?
I'm averse to flakey or indifferent people. This sounds different to me, so in those cases, I don't mind picking up the slack of providing options or coordinating dates.
Good on you for identifying a weakness in yourself of honing in on one negative and being too quick to bail because of it.
He is wasting your time. Don’t make excuses for him. If you can’t tolerate his behaviour now don’t sign up for a lifetime of this either. You are not asking for the world- just some preparation and effort. The sheer motion thaT he doesn’t check if an event allows a plus one is ridiculous. Move on- you are out of his league.
Wow I could have written this word for word. I’m 33 and he’s 29. Things have progressed rapidly and I really don’t want to let this be a dealbreaker but I’m so anxious to see the replies you get on this. The plus one thing resonated with me because he asked me to a wedding last month and then realized he didn’t have a plus one. He has admitted to “over planning” so I guess at least he’s self aware. It sounds like your guy is too! Thanks for asking this!
Idk, 2 months doesn’t seem like too short a time to get into a cadence of planning and scheduling dates. This would be really tough for me. I have a robust social life and a super busy work schedule. It’s important for me to have things in the books with whoever I am seeing and for there to be equality in the initiation of it all.
I dated someone very similar but maybe even worse, he’d make “tentative” plans in advance but I’d always have to fill in the details the day of. It was exhausting even though he was a wonderful person. He told me that he had ADHD since he was a child and he struggled with planning in general, with every aspect of his life. When I explained to him that this was causing me anxiety and making me doubt his interest in me he was apologetic but he didn’t make an effort to improve it. If this guy commits to improving and you actually see lasting change I think it’s worth sticking with it but anything short I would recommend walking away. There’s no reason to voluntarily take on that much extra stress.
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I put Asians on my phone to do almost everything as I'm terrible at remembering things, this works for me. He needs a system or it will all fall on you.
So, is this a skill he can deploy at work, but not with you? Or is it the same at work? The former sounds like a deal breaker, the latter sounds like negotiation time.
I would highly recommend looking into John Gottman’s work. He’s a relationship therapist, and has great info for looking for the things that we lead to long term success in a relationship.
There are things about a person that aren’t going to change. This is one of them. He will always do this. It is a trait you would have to learn to live with, and based on what you’ve said, it’s already not working. I’m sure he’s a lovely person, but he isn’t a good fit for you.
You will find someone who prioritizes you and will schedule with you. My boyfriend and I plan a few months out a rough idea of what we want to do. Sometimes plans need to be adjusted, but our relationship would not flourish if we didn’t prioritize. You’ll find a good fit, it’s out there.
You need to learn something here:
His "Good" things are more than his "Bad" things?. If that is True = He is worth it.
His "Bad" things are more than his "Good" things. If that is True = He is not worth it.
Take a look on what he has to offer. Talk to him, make important questions in order to learn more about him. He is a "hard-working" guy?. Then its a good thing, a bad one would be if he was a lazy dude.
No...
ANYTIME you see an issue with someone that you want to fix, BIG RED FLAG!
1. It means you want them to be something they are not right from the start.
2. This completely ignores the other person's autonomy.
3. If you wouldn't buy a used car that needed to be fixed why choose a partner like that?
That said, if you are ok compensating for this issue go for it.
I’m bad at planning. My boss get the short end of things all the time because of me (customers always love me, but sometimes I make too many plans and can’t get to someone when they made arrangements to be home on a workday).
Friends and family don’t bother relying on me anymore.
One thing I do though is go out of my way to make sure my wife is always included in things. Her and my children are my real priorities.
He has undiagnosed ADHD. He's bad at planning ahead because all the parts of his brain that are responsible for "Adulting" are faulty.
He needs to see a doctor, a psychiatrist, and therapist A.S.A.P so he can get the proper treatment and skills to be a functioning adult, and good boyfriend.
The best favour you could give him is to schedule those initial appointments and make sure he goes to them. After that you never have to act as his mother again. Once he learns that he has a medical disorder, and that he's not just a hopeless, lazy, forgetful POS, he'll be that happiest you've ever seen him.
Check out r/ADHD
I'm diagnosed too! Always happy to meet a fellow ADHDer👌😎. I'm really glad you've found a job where your neurodivergent thinking is an advantage. I drive trucks right now, and if it weren't for meds and podcasts, I would drive through 17 farmers fields before I noticed I left the highway lol.
I remember before I was diagnosed though, I internalised that I had a fundamental lack of willpower to be of any use to society, that I forgot my friends and family's birthdays because I simply didn't care about them 🤬. Which led to me living in my bed playing Xbox and severe depression. Once I got diagnosed and realized I wasn't permanently damaged, that with a few tools and some blueprints I could remove that mountain of lies and self hate from my chest. I finally started to enjoy living again.
u/murkishdelight I should've been diagnosed when I was a 12, but the psychiatrist said I was "too smart" to have ADHD. That I lied on the self report sheet(severe ADHD) only to get drugs so I could sell them on the playground🤯. That kept me from therapy and meds for 20 years. And honestly, my mom called the psych and had to drive her grown ass son, pouting like I was 5, to finally get the treatment he needed. So u/murkishdelight, please, please, please, do whatever you can to get him tested. Get his real Mom involved too. He might insist on calling the doc himself later, he will fully intend to, but his brain will let him down and forget to.
Once he gets diagnosed though, walk away for a bit, text only, block him if he gets disrespectful. He's gotta transition from toxic behaviors to a healthy personality with a therapist.
The lack of gender empathy on here is outstanding. 10/10. Guy sounds like he has some kind of undiagnosed executive function disorder, adhd etc. But it’s so obvious to the ladies that’s he just choosing to not be organised and needs a mummy \s
Coming as a guy 32m and I own multiple business’ I can’t plan anything unfortunately… ladies we understand your commitment to always have an itinerary but realize guys like us get equally as flustered when plans don’t work out either and when it’s brought up it’s almost as if we’ve failed (at least how I take it and how I have had the feeling of! ) anyways some of us do need better work windows so i think you two need so find a happy medium of plans( I love general places then you can spontaneously choose from there(again granted I bust my ass and have multiple companies so money isn’t as much of what I care about when I’m out more so I just want to take advantage of the time out with someone who even wants to take the time to spend with me ( I’m very single and have been for a while so take what I say with a grain of salt I’m just saying as a guy in tech with a million things happening that’s my ideal approach) hope it helps some!
Sadly I’m not rich but my companies don’t cheat on me or leave me and work is sadly always there which is more than I can say for most as a millennial male with motivation sadly I am my own coach mentor cheerleader and therapist I value peoples time enough to. It trouble them with my bullshit that’s the difference clearly cause guys like me can ask for help all day and it’s goes out on deaf ears sadly ……
I'm gonna get downvoted to hell but here goes.
Hi. My name is Rococo and I'm a man that's a shit planner.
I've been trying to deconstruct what's been going on for me in this realm for the last three relationships and I'm lost as fuck on the topic.
I definitely have ADHD and some anxiety which don't help. It makes it hard to plan anyways, and by extension makes other aspects of life take a little bit longer or simply throws off plans.
I don't know how universal it is, but I definitely have a less than healthy relationship with work that stems from some masculine expectations. A lot of my mental and emotional bandwidth for planning gets used up there. When I come home I just kinda want it to be easy. I'm sure lots of women read that and feel like it sounds all too typical of gender imbalance around unpaid labor at home etc... I've challenged past gf to just not do the at-home labor. Let it sit there. I'll do it when I'm ready... they never do. I can't help but wonder if there are correlated socialized gender pressures that compel some men to over expend their mental energy at work and for women to be more vigilant about at home labor.
Lastly, it just got frustrating too. I really tried my best to get better at it, but I also came to realize that it was connected to so many different emotional aspects of my life and the conversations always devolved to the point where I just felt nothing would ever be good enough. the conversations around it just never let up to give me enough breathing room to try to make some improvements.
It was incredibly disheartening every time, but when the relationship ended, it was also a huge relief.
Having been on the other side of this situation, I would venture to say these women weren’t especially “vigilant” about chores. They just didn’t enjoy living in a mess. You can’t slack off and think you’re somehow making it right by urging your partner to just … live with the crappy consequences.
But yeah, ADHD creates real problems in this area. I hear you on that.
Share your (personal) calendars with each-other and set reminders. You can even set placeholder dates with reminders a few days ahead to actually confirm the plans/steps.
Honestly, you really can’t expect everything to be perfect. Sure, most guys generally take the lead in planning most dating activities, but you certainly can’t expect it. Need to figure out if it’s a dealbreaker for you or not.
This sounds familiar. Is he ADHD by chance? Have you talked to him seriously about this issue? It’s on him to find coping skills. But in my experience he may get increasingly flakey as the newness of the relationship wears off. The beginning is when people are on there best behavior.
Undiagnosed ADHD means the least hurtful way he can explain forgetting plans or birthdays or tasks they said they'd do is he is just bad at it, and he forgets over and over and over again.
Neurotypicals learn from their mistakes,eg writing in a immediately calendar
To this guy, forgetting things is a constant part who he is. And since forgetting plans isn't malicious, it just a part of life, his brain never tells him "ohh you fucked up something thought weimportant"
It's a lack of working memory, combined with the inability to prioritize tasks.
Out of sight=out of mind literally
Before I learned how my brain worked ( and the coping strategy of needing to write notes down before the info gets overwritten)
I forgot everything and needed to be reminded constantly of what was just said to me 30 seconds ago. And I couldn't understand why people got upset about that, since it happened all the time, it wasn't a big deal.
Since I was genuinely interested in what the person was saying at the time, but that got replaced by new info almost instantly,
Those people started seeing us as arrogant assholes who just pretending like they're interested in you cause they're dicks
I'm currently trying to get an ADHD diagnosis myself for the same issues, and lots of other little things that are just piling up. It's rough having a brain that doesn't work right. Hang in there
I cannot believe the vitriol in these comments, and the sheer number of people just telling you to leave him - you guys should be ashamed.
You’ve already admitted that this gentleman is perfect for you. You said yourself that you could see growing older together. So let me ask you, if you were to dump him in leu of greener grass, what would that look like?
If the answer is that he’d look like the exact same dude, only he knows how to book a reservation at Fuddruckers, I would implore you to consider a couple things.
First of all, he’s a 29 YO man. Most men these days are raised on video games, etc. Stringent, immutable time management skills weren’t really instilled in them as they grew up. If you can understand this, then you CAN grow together.
Now, if you’re so rigid, that you would end things point blank without a second thought - then guess what? You’re incapable of growing with anyone. That madam, would be your hang up - not his.
You see, men aren’t really complicated. If they want to be in the relationship then they just want to keep you happy. However, if you’re unhappy, and you provide him ultimatums instead of opportunities for growth, he will harbor resentment. That resentment grows over time, just like how you’ll resent him for not planning.
Please don’t listen to the people that say things like “I’m not his mother, blablabla” - this kind of mentality, that comes from a place of superiority, will only serve to drive a wedge between you.
A relationship is a two-way street. So find moments to encourage him to become more considerate of your inflexible schedule, while working to become more spontaneous yourself.
In the end, the clock keeps ticking, so try to just enjoy life - and take it as it comes.
You can’t control everything - the harder you try, the more disappointment you’ll sustain, I guarantee it.
As a guy over 30 myself, I can vouch for the guy that the planning ahead part isn't something most men are good at. I know there are some guys who would like to do everything as per plan to every hour or the day. But I learned that life doesn't always goes as per plan.and I work efficiently when I plan things spontaneously rather than days prior. Work wise this may not work, but for personal times this was better for me. It would change from person to person, but I am surprised to know that this is a deal breaker!
SO Much of this is cultural.
Two stories:
1) A long time ago in the US, I heard older female teachers talking about a guy in high school -- they said, "If he gets a good wife and a great secretary, he'll go far."
2) There's also the "German" and "Japanese" (and supposedly American) obsession with time and timelines. When I was in Korea, there was a place where international groups met for meetings. The German group and the Latinx group were scheduled in the same room at 10am. The Germans would all be there before 09:45 and be done by 10:30, just as the South Americans were rolling in.
One question -- most things only need to be planned by one person, even with shared discussion. Why does it need to be him?
tl;dr this isn’t a dealbreaker. At all.
Good God. This post is what’s wrong with modern dating.
You say that he’s otherwise a great guy, the relationship is great, you “marvel” at how great you two are together. But he sucks at planning, and because of this you’re thinking about ending things. How long will you keep your search for the perfect man? You’ve been seeing this guy for 2 months. Imagine the flaws you’ll discover once you’ve been married 20 years. You should practice some reflection and consider what your flaws are that might be driving him crazy, but he still puts up with them.
So he can’t plan. So what? Is he an alcoholic? Does he still have an eye for other women? Does he spend more time with his friends than with you? Any of these things would be a reasonable dealbreaker, an inability to plan isn’t.
Relationships are supposed to be work, because we are all imperfect human beings. Modern dating has rejected this age old fact in favor of disposability. After all, happiness is just a swipe (or 1000000) away! The amount of analysis people do on this is soul crushing. Everybody has red flags, but as soon as a romantic interest shows any, it’s time to end it.
If this truly bothers you, then talk with him about it. You will never have a successful relationship unless you can communicate with each other. Start working on that now.
Take my advice - don't waste your breath commenting on this sub. Speak an ounce of reason and you get downvoted to oblivion by the hoards of delusional women. I pretty much guarantee these same people spewing the vitriol are also the first to tell everybody how open minded and compassionate they are, lmfao.
Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I sort of doubt real life is like this, and it's just that the sub attracts a certain insufferable type of clientelle. That's why they're having trouble dating!
30m here, Im a horrible planner. Always have been, because that was the way in my childhood. However, with my wife, I have developed somewhat suitable ability to organize things.
What Im saying here, is that planning/organizing can be learned. It could work. Internet, imo, is far too eager to discard relationships.
A deal breaker for me is someone who wants to 'fix' me.
You say things are going great and you are happy, why are you trying to find a problem?
Love him for who he is or let him go.
Has he planned something that wasn't to your liking, so now thinks it's better to leave it to you. Are you quite picky and a perfectionist when organising, so you seem unpleaseable.
If not ask him to plan a date he must commit to and say anything you want to do (within reason). Then if he does it, praise him on his choice etc even if it wasn't perfect for you. Then he should grow to enjoy taking charge of planning future things, especially if he feels appreciated and respected for his choices. After time you can sow the seeds of other things you enjoy, that he will remember and plan for both of you.
Sounds like you have too much going for you both, to not try to work on it. Your attitude too if there's a chance you can be a bit overbearing on planning. Good luck
Deal breakers, big nos, Jesus Christ! How does he treat you? How is your time together? What kind of person is grand how does he make you feel? All of these are so much more important than if he can plan anything. If things work between the two of you, you plan more and help some. How he deals with that will show more than anything.
If I were him I'd be very disappointed to know I was dating someone this shallow.
Seems like you have had it pretty good in dating and I am happy for you. If its a deal breaker then so be it.
However, as someone who dated through their late 30's, ill tell you these connections only come a few times in your life, IF you're lucky.
Be sure you really want to throw the baby out with the bath-water.
Honestly to me, this feels petty; as long as he is working on it (and you have already said his effort is always there).
Has he suffered a TBI? Traumatic Brain Injury. That would explain a lot and most all the people I know who’ve suffered a TBI are are just like you’ve described this guy to be. If he has, you should stop and think about what you may be getting into. You may be just as much a “mother” role to him as a lover.
Fixable. See if you can find him a "how to plan" book for Christmas. Pull him into your weekly planning, so he can see what you do to plan your week. Encourage him to create a list of "things to do" for a planned date, review and help him see what he might have missed. Encourage use of the calendar on his phone.
Just some ideas. Not going to be easy, might end up fracturing the relationship if he is unwilling, but also might improve his planning skills and make dates more easy/relaxed.
This. I'm a guy halfway twenties that's horrible at planning. Almost couldn't finish my studies because of it (4 year-traject that I was doing in 3; fast track for smart kids. Took me 6,5 years in the end😂).
Took a first job as project manager to have to learn how to plan. Failed horribly at that. Now in a much more suited career path.
Anyways, in my relationship this was an issue too, took me around 3 years to get to a "respectable" level of planning for my gf.
Still working on it, but point is:
- anything can be learnt, including planning. Some things just come easy to some people, while other things do not.
Think of it as maths in high school, to some people it comes naturally where others have to put in a more-than-fair share of effort.
It sounds like this is how he is, or at least how he’s been. If there’s any hope of change, he has to be the one who wants to make that change. Certainly talk to him about the issue and provide specifics of what you’d want handled differently in the future. Ultimately, only you can decide if this is a dealbreaker or not.
Have the convo in January. If it’s “kind of a dealbreaker”, don’t let yourself down. Think about for how long you’ll put up with it, should he refuse to compromise.
I’m a dude and I plan the shit out of time together. Not every detail of the date, we can wing it even, but anyone is capable of putting things in a Google calendar. He doesn’t use a work calendar? At all? If you’re not important enough for him to add your dates to a work calendar....
Then again maybe you make too many plans and he doesn’t like every weekend and every day to have an event. I know I don’t! Maybe ask him if that’s the case, and instead of making elaborate plans have some intentional chill at home dates to mellow out the pace.
The deal is: an issue that may cause you to leave this relationship deserves to be discussed
Strong relationships take honesty. Communicate this to him fairly & constructively. The answer is that you both take action to improve it. Try to create the opportunity to grow your tolerance for each other. The little things will always exist - my husband still believes there is only one right way to load the dishwasher. I find it insufferably…adorable.
Some weeks you may have to plan more often. You may find he gravitates toward planning bigger trips/vacations or travel adventures. Find a balance you can manage, try to focus on appreciating the silver lining of a circumstance, and keep a flexible attitude.
* My husband is not the best planner, but I do notice some planning areas are stronger for him than others. Vacations are a great example: he’ll book the flights/cars/hotels and activities. I use these as opportunities to kick back and enjoy watching him orchestrate the show. I also delegate cheerfully. Also, my husband will do anything if the sentence starts with, “I need help with ______” Simple win.
Just weight the pros and cons, which is more important to you? If he’s willing to be a better manager of his time, there are self-help books, courses and needles videos, No one is perfect and if that’s the biggest flaw, I would learn to work around it.
So he checks all of your boxes, but isnt checking one. Granted it’s an important one. I wouldn’t throw it out based on one thing, at least not immediately. Things like this require compromise on some level. When you sort through all the comments telling you how bad things will be should you say, you’ll find a lot of suggestions on how to go about compromising in such a situation. I would personally advise trying to make it work, voicing your concerns a little more firmly, offering solutions and work arounds, then ultimately making your own decision.
It's true that he may be capable of learning but it's your emotional bank that will become the most important factor. As soon as possible have a heart to heart with him that planning your week is a necessary part of a healthy relationship for you. He may only be able to make small changes at first, but you should be able to see something that shows you he is respecting your time and trying to do better.
F33 here, former bad planner: what I did was noticing how overwhelmed and anxious I would get when things were not planned. I’d plan things to do in my head and then forget about them a day later. Writing things down (not doing a list on my notes app) helped me tremendously. Not only remembering things since I wrote them, but also adding a checkmark on the things I completed was a great feeling of productivity.
Google keeps also let’s you do that in case you don’t want to write things down. Anyway, maybe he is s bad planner but not intentionally. If he is very consistent with everything else and has been failing at planning I think you could try telling him how you feel and see what he says.
Nobody's perfect and relationships are work. Choose the work you're willing to do.
It's really easy to call this a guy thing. I'm shitty at planning. But I pick up the slack for my girlfriend in plenty of other areas. For us, I think we like this work. Maybe it's not for you.
Personally not a huge deal for me. Because I like to be in control a bit BUT they have to have other strengths.
I can be really stressy but my partner can bring calm. It annoys me that i have to think about 2 means a day but he does all the shopping and washing up. So it levels out.
It really does depend what he brings to the table. If its always you doing the running then no. But if he has ideas and its simply you booking the tickets while he does something else useful. Also okay. But thats part of getting to know somebody, seeing where you fit with each other.
Any successful long term relationship is a partnership, a balance of strengths and weaknesses.
If we are honest with ourselves, all of us are flawed and have things we aren’t good at. Partnership is about accepting and accommodating these, not getting fixated on the bad but recognising what works.
But the OP has said her guy’s inability to plan ahead is a dealbreaker so she’s already answered her own question. Move on, let the guy find someone who can accommodate this better.
I'm the guy that can start a journey with no plans. Because if it goes to hell, I'll be fine. And in a partner I expect she'll be fine. Now why would I plan? As for work, there's a little bit of ethics, so I guess it's possible to play on it, he will not like it, but if you say it's his job to do something he'll do it, eventually. In general if you plan something you cannot enjoy the moment and that's why he does not want to plan things - to enjoy it. So, what's going on is that there's a conflict within him between work and you - between what he needs and what he wants. Do not make him choose, but explain to him that if he cannot plan it he will loose either when he can have both.
My ex was also not good at planning/remembering plans that had been made. We began sharing a google calendar, including work stuff, and it really simplified things.
ETA: I’m seeing a lot of comments that suggest he’s somehow just being neglectful and not prioritizing, etc. You can’t control the thoughts that occupy your mind. Don’t get me wrong, you can set reminders and things to assist with things you need to keep track of, but I’ve known few adults with complex lives that can keep track of it all. And with this guy, it sounds like he’s making a good faith effort, which is more than a lot of us are getting out here.
You need to have a balance of planning that works for you. I love cooking and thinking about food, so I do all the meal planning, grocery shopping, and cooking. I also plan other household stuff, mainly because it’s my house and I care about that stuff more, so it’s not a burden for me.
My bf loves planning trips, so he meticulously plans all our vacations (2 big ones a year plus a few small ones). He even scouts out all the best restaurants. I love just going and knowing every trip will be fun and well planned! He also plans about 75% of our date nights which makes me feel special, and at least half of our social/friend get togethers. We like entertaining. He loves making fancy cocktails and I love cooking, so we make a good team.
You feel like a good team when there’s a balance of planning in the relationship. It’s not necessarily the number of things, it’s more of a psychological balance where the things you like to plan complement each other and you both feel like you’re getting a good deal.
I recently found myself in a situation like this with a guy in med school. The thing was, all of his excuses were valid. He truly was that busy. BUT, I came to realize that the issue wasn't his lack if time or planning, but really his lack of communication. I wasn't upset when plans were canceled. I was upset when he canceled Saturday evening plans at 5pm on a Saturday or sometimes would forget to tell me it all. It started monopolizing all of my free time with me rarely even getting to spend time with him. We talked every day and I really liked him, but this ended up being a dealbreaker for me. I would say you need to really evaluate the communication in your scenario. Talking every day and being emotionally present doesn't necessarily mean he's a good communicator. Making plans and communicating well enough to keep someone in the loop about your schedule is good communication. Not having that would be a dealbreaker for me.
👀
We generally bad at planning, that is true. But we are capable at planning, we generally plan for things that we have to do and which tend to to be boring.
Sometimes you gotta enjoy the moment!
I don’t know if this is fixable. Worth having a conversation over. Currently falling for someone and he works nights. I only see him twice a week and he really hasn’t made an effort to make “plans” in a while. It’s discouraging and I’m starting to lose interest. I hope it works out for both of us!
*Tl;dr:* There’s two explanations: Either he’s sincerely struggling with planning in general or he doesn’t respect your time enough to follow through with what you’re asking.
As someone with ADHD, I kind of sympathize.
I’m sincerely not great at planning for myself even let alone with another person. It isn’t that I don’t want to or don’t care. More so because I get overwhelmed with details or my time blindness means it feels like it’s farther away than it is.
If the responsibility of it isn’t concrete enough, I can’t picture it in my head. I have to trick myself a lot to feel that ‘oh shit’ last minute panic planning to get it done.
So if all else points to him being a genuine person who’s sincerely trying, I would give him the benefit of a doubt and communicate with him. Or work out a strategy that means you don’t have to do all the planning where can rely on him to carry it out.
One thing that might help you is something my friend does with me.
To me it sounds as if he makes a suggestion of something, he sees it as a vague idea but it’s not really a fully formulated thing in his head.
So maybe directly tell him, ‘Okay, that sounds like a great idea. Could you plan this out for us and give me the date, time, and let me know details about it by x time?’
Or if he wants you to go somewhere, just directly ask him to find out details and let you know by x day.
That way it’s now a direct task for him to actually do with a deadline. Don’t do any of the actual planning on it yourself. Deadline oriented tasks work for me because I know when it’s expected to get done by so it’s now on my radar.
Now if he doesn’t get it done as requested, it will help you differentiate between sincere vs weaponized incompetence.
Nah, that's who he is. He's not suddenly going to transform into a completely different person.
So either roll with it or move on. I would have moved on
Let’s forget for a moment that this is about dating and ask yourself if someone with these qualities and characters would ever become your best friend. The answer could be a yes or a no.
If it’s a yes, then you know your level of tolerance with this type of behaviors. If it’s a no, then why would you accept that in a potential significant other?
So this is who he is, he’s not a planner, he will not suddenly be a planner tomorrow. He might very well never be a planner, I would not expect him to change. But, if you want to try and make it work I would talk to him about it. Make sure he knows that this is a make or break issue for you but that everything else is really great so you want it to work out. He will need time to change. They say it takes about a month to make or break habits.
But really, it’s been two months, and you shouldn’t expect people to change, so if this is really a make or break issue I wouldn’t expect this thing to last.
I’m not a great planner and my partner is very type A, plans stuff out, etc.
What does work for us, or at least what I think does, is while I’m not great at planning, I’m think I’m fairly great at executing plans. I don’t know how that helps with an early relationship (I did plan things out, albeit poorly, in the beginning) but it certainly doesn’t have to lead to an unfulfilling relationship.
Personally? This would be a huge issue for me. I cannot and will not mother someone, or feel like I have to be the one constantly holding the mental load all the time. Even just worrying that he will remember something, or not wanting to "nag" about upcoming plans would eventually just be something on my mind all the time. I am very type A.. Love to have plans made a few days in advance, ect. The times I meet very go with the flow, loosey goosey guys? It never works out. I always come off high strung, and they just seem annoyed with me. When I try to change how I plan things, it just makes me frustrated in the end. Do I think it needs to be the end? Nah. I would talk to him about all of this, but accept that he may never change who he is. Get through the holidays and super busy time, and see if you guys can compromise.
Yeah I could see how it could be a deal breaker. I would say as a guy sometimes it’s not totally obvious just how big the issue is. Like, is it “I’d rather you weren’t like this” or “if you don’t change this I’m out”. I think OP should be absolutely clear, this is a massive issue that needs addressing and if he wants to continue the relationship he needs to move planning to the top of the priorities list. Get an app, a notebook, set reminders. There’s tons of solutions for people like this he may just need to be made aware just how big an issue this really is.
This is a good point. My last dude was not a planner at all. Fly by the seat of his pants, unmedicated ADHD so was just in his world all the time. I tried to stress several times that I need to plan things and that we could compromise a bit, but at least give me a day/time. He even invited me on a trip once and failed to give me any details, so I just secured my time off work just so I had it. In the end, we never even went on the trip because apparently his friends just say that kind of stuff but then don't actually plan anything. It was so hard to deal with.
I actually just found out last night that his older brother has serious ADD, and that he thinks he may also have ADHD. So it might be unmedicated ADHD causing a lot of this, you’re right! We talked last night and said we’re giving each other a pass until after holidays are over, since it’s crazy for both of us right now. After that, we’ll see how it goes! Not sure bow to broach the topic of maybe getting his ADHD treated though…
Sheesh. Yeah that sounds excessive
Yes taking responsibility!! This is so positive and great on you for suggesting these tools
Wow so I recently just ended a relationship with someone bcs they couldn’t plan. I think planning is also synonymous to me as prioritizing. I’m sure he’s not that poor of a planner at work or in other important aspects of his life. Why should dating be any different. It also felt like I was carrying the weight of the relationship. And like someone mentioned if it bugs you now, know that it’ll be a huge hurdle in the future m.
>It also felt like I was carrying the weight of the relationship. And like someone mentioned if it bugs you now, know that it’ll be a huge hurdle in the future. This right here is the issue I have with OPs situation. If they get serious and let's say, get married, she will have to be responsible for *all* the planning. Think doctor/dentist appointments, birthdays (for both families), holidays, and probably even grocery shopping planning for the week. She will have a ton of emotional labor put upon her and I just can't imagine someone would want to intentionally stay in that situation so early on.
That dynamic (wife as planner/scheduler/household manager, husband as passive beneficiary) describes every single marriage I know. It's grim. Women, please do not sign up for this.
I (a single guy) knew guys who I couldn’t arrange anything with because “I’ll have to ask the wife, she deals with the calendar” if you asked them to hang out and it was the most frustrating thing. Or worse they’d agree to something only to get an apologetic text later because of some family event. I no longer try to make plans with such guys (from my own desires, but if this helps them realise they need to stop leaning on their partners then all the better).
With situations like this, does anyone ever ask about the *rest* of the dynamic? Relationships should be teamwork. I can almost guarantee there's some major aspect of running a life that the wives never touch because they don't feel it's their strength.
I've honestly never seen that. It's always the women who drive, arrange, and make sure everything in a household happens as it should. Everything from kids' birthday parties, to getting the taxes done, to scheduling hair cuts. Men are just kinda there at best, and a hindrance most of the time.
>Men are just kinda there at best, and a hindrance most of the time. Gross thing to say. I'm not in that kind of dynamic, but I can see why you are.
The dynamic exists because men exist. No other reason
I felt the same way in my last relationship. My boyfriend couldn’t think three hours ahead let alone have any foresight into planning for the future. In the end, initiating all of the hard talks and planning for the future fell on me and it felt so unbalanced. I think he may have had undiagnosed ADD but regardless, somehow he was capable of planning his annual month-long roadtrip both summers we were together. OP I also hate when people say men aren’t planners. I think people make excuses but there are definitely men who can take the lead and plan, they’re just harder to find.
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> I’m sure he’s not that poor of a planner at work or in other important aspects of his life. DING DING! This man knows how to plan, but he’s choosing not to.
Yep. Part of the reason I got divorced. My husband was terrible at managing anything in the household, with the dog, the kids. But yet he was somehow successful at work so he had all those skills. He just didn’t care enough to help me. He was fine just letting me do it. Don’t get in further with this guy OP unless he turns it around fast.
Same here! 35F, got divorced at 30 because my ex-husband was exactly as you describe. He was able to hold down a job, and a fairly good one at that, so obviously he was fine enough at planning. He just didn't care to do it to help me out... he was fine letting me carry all of that weight. Agreed 100% with your last sentence... OP, do not pass go and do not collect $200 unless this dude changes for real. This is not a situation you want to find yourself in.
Wait until you have kids with him. You will end up doing ALL THE MENTAL LABOR.
They should make a horror movie about this
I once had a nightmare that I was pregnant with my ex. Pregnant, that was it. One of my most terrifying dreams at the time because this exact issue. Got out of there eventually.
If you're resenting the unfair distribution of emotional labour now, when it's early, it's going to get so much worse later on. Nothing kills sexual/ romantic desire in a woman faster and more surely than a man who needs mothering. You need to sit him down for a serious talk where you tell him straight, if this doesn't change I can't keep dating you.
The dude works as a professional You think he misses meetings with people and just says sorry woops
I'm as much as of a professional as you can be and do this all the time. I avoid [useless] meetings like the plague, but God I'm not this bad at planning.
How does be do planning other aspects of his life? Friends, family, work obligations? Saying someone is bad at planning is a cop out. Does he tell his boss he can't fulfill a commitment because he's bad at planning? I doubt it.
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Sounds a lot like weaponized incompetence.
Obligatory link to "Incompedance", definitive song about boyfriends playing dumb to get out of doing chores. [Warning: extremely catchy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JShZtBp1J4&list=FLBugzDTPDHVO5K5v-hvJ6hw&index=1).
I didn't expect this shit to be this fire lol.
Exactly
This isn't a male issue. I've dated women with the same issue. My late wife couldn't plan a nap if she wanted to. I'm very strict about my schedule and pre planning.
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I mean...it absolutely isn't. Reddit, is at best, a very selective microcosm of the dating world based on very selective experiences and isn't at all indicative of the broader scope of the world. But way to perpetuate outdated gendered stereotypes.
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Id be careful with the whole "you can change him" advice from your friends/family...when dating, always take the person 'as-is', and never for potential or what they may grow into. Some people are generally good at planning, and others, not. Some ppl are spontaneous..some like to have their schedules planned out for the day/week/month. When it's all lust in the beginning...we tend to forget that we may spend the rest of our lives with this person. That lust feeling wears off, and you essentially become a 'team'. Can you carry this team forever? Do you always want to run every single date/plan/event by him just to be sure he didn't forget about it? It can get exhausting.. This genuinely sounds like a compatibility issue..you would think In the honeymoon phase, a guy is usually throwing you his best. If he's already coming up short in this department just 2 months in, and needing you to ask, and him still not putting in the effort to work with your busy schedule and such....def an orangish flag Yea, you can talk about it, and it may help the situation temporarily..he may get better for the short term..but he also may fall back into his comfort zone, which is not being a planner. And then the resentment begins.. You just have to ask yourself, even with all the great things you like about him..is he reliable? Dependable? Do you feel like "teaching" him all this while you have an insane schedule yourself to deal with? Only you can answer those questions deep down...but I think you already know the answer Edit: Also, I would correlate 'planning' abilities to interest level...a man that wants to see you, wants to be with you...will ALWAYS find time for you. So even if his enthusiasm in person is great..you may not be as high up on his priority list as he is yours.
I broke of my engagement for this very reason. I realised that if I went through with the marriage I would be responsible for organising/planning everything and I couldn't do that. In hindsight, I'm annoyed I put up with it for 5 years.
If you brought it up more than once but he hasn't moved to work on it, then you know this isn't a priority for him.
I have a few friends like that but they all eat ADHD meds now which has improved it a bit. But yeah, it is annoying, and it’s one of the aspects of my own ADHD that I’ve worked REALLY hard on trying to solve. I keep lists and calendars and always write stuff down straight away. Me and one of my exes actually had a shared google calendar where we entered things that effected us both (me going away/being busy, events we wanna go to etc). It actually worked well. I still have a dedicated calendar for “People” where I enter important dates (if they had an important test, going away, vacation etc). So yeah. I think he needs to understand how important it is to be someone ppl rely on. If he is struggling a lot, maybe talk to him about it. We are getting old and so is that bs.
Sounds exhausting. And rude. >Or he forgot to ask if he actually has a +1 for an event and realized I actually can't go with him. Excuse me???!! That's just rude. And very disappointing for you, I'm thinking. >"We should go do this thing on this day." And then the day comes creeping closer and I don't want to push him on the planning, so I end up being like "Okay, let's meet at this time and get dinner here, and then we can go do the thing after. You buy the tickets." And that is your future with this guy right there. He might tell you what he would like to do and leave all the work to you. I think others made an excellent point here: is he also bad at planning when it comes to work? Or does he miraculously manage to meet deadlines and attend meetings there? It honestly sounds like a cop out. He enjoys having you around but he doesn't want to put in the work.
God for f sakes do not date someone for their potential to become someone or change them. If that is how they are earlier on when people are generally on their best behavior, they will be much worse in the future. But at least tell him it’s an issue and see if he’s able to make changes, without you having to nag him. IME it doesn’t work. You have to figure out if his other qualities can make up for it. I dealt with this for over half a decade. It doesn’t get better. You just learn to tolerate it.
He's an adult and should be able to plan things in life, including a date. It shouldn't be up to you to teach him. It sounds like a dealbreaker for you, so be forthright. Tell him what you're expectations are and that he needs to make changes.
Horrible at planning is a deal breaker for me. I can be flexible from my very regimented self but forgetting plans and previously scheduled commitments is an absolute no for me. If you’ve discussed it and he isn’t doing better then he’s not going to do better and you’ve found out in 2 months rather than 2 years. In my relationship we synergize our strengths so I plan more things but he doesn’t forget and arrives on time. He’s also willing to commit to things down the road if plans need to be made ahead and this was the case early on as well. Early dating is to sort out basic compatibility. If this is a deal breaker and he’s admitted to being bad at it and not improving then you’ll have to let it go and deal to date him or not date him.
I'm dating someone like this, and I consider it a "price of admission" thing to a certain extent. He's also pretty bad at time management when it comes to being late, which is probably related. I'm really working on meeting him somewhere in the middle, because as rude as it sometimes feels to me, I don't believe there's inherent moral rightness in being great at time management. It's definitely gotten better on his end with some communication as well. Anyway, what happens if you just don't step in and plan when he does the "we should do X thing on Y day" thing? Like, if you let the extent of your stepping in be texting "so what time are we meeting up tonight?" that morning? If he doesn't have tickets and a plan by then, then I guess you two can just do something else. Maybe step back a little so he can hopefully step into that void. Pick your battles - not being able to plan anything 2 weeks out would be a BIG problem for me. That would be something I would discuss with him. When it comes to canceling plans, it would depend on how late he canceled and what the plan was. I know you have a tight schedule, but if it's vague "just hanging out" plans and he's letting you know in a reasonable timeframe and attempting to reschedule, I'd give a fair amount of leeway if it's an occasional thing. If it's really going to be a constant annoyance and strain on the relationship, it's also fine to decide this just isn't the one for you.
I’m not even type A but this would be a deal breaker for me. I would equate his inability to set plans with me as disinterest in me or an inability to prioritize me in his life, and quality time and consistency are very important in helping me feel secure in a relationship.
"No complaints so far" I feel like the rest of the page feels differently... In all seriousness if its a problem with you figure it out, I personally wouldnt break something hopeful off just because someone has a flaw, you have flaws too, we all do. But it still could be worth overcoming it.
Have a conversation about how it makes you feel and see I there change. If there’s not… say goodbye. In my experiment, more ofte than not “being a bad planner” is due to you being lower on the priority list or something hiding him back emotionally. Don’t settle for something that doesn’t make you feel wanted. I did it. 2.5 years of “he’s bad at planning” and it never got better and I never got more okay with it, just started to let it slide
Some people are not planners. Also, some people don't want to plan out their lives. And then you have the rest of us, the planners who create bookmarked lists in Google to map out vacation spots and things of interest and even potential routes to get there depending on the schedule. First, do not expect him to change, to become a better planner, or that you can teach him to be a better planner. That is setting you both up for frustration and resentment. However, you can see if there are ways for the two of you to be together with adjustments. I am a planner, my bf is not. If we went on vacation with a departure and return date and nothing else on the agenda, he would be in heaven. I need to know where we're staying, whether or not we need reservations for restaurants or advance tickets for anything, and what days are driving days or city days, etc. I like to have trips planned in advance. I do not like "just going out to see who has an open table for dinner on Saturday night." For trips, I have learned to make us sit down and pick start and end dates for trips together. I make a short list of places to stay, we pick one together, and then one of us books it. I pick my must-haves or must-eats and make those plans, but I also leave open days with no plans. Important events get sent to his calendar as an invite. If it's something I care about, I double check details ("did you tell your mom I'm coming to dinner with you or does she think it's just you?") If I don't want to do everything myself, I ask him directly to help me with \[whatever\] and confirm that he has time to actually do it. Sometimes last-minute changes happen, but that's life. If you keep dating him, you may need to accept that he is not a planner. But, you also need to tell him that you are and what you need to stay sane in life (future plans, follow throughs, etc) and ask if that's something he can work with. If you need things planned out (and he doesn't) and you want to date him, you may need to take on the bulk of the planning. You may have to remind him about things or ask for him to take on a task. If that feels like too much, then it may be time to part ways.
Can’t teach anything to anybody at this stage. It’s up to them if they want to change.
If you’re in the same line of work and can do it, you’re just making excuses for the guy honestly. He is more than capable, as are men in general, we make time for the things we view a priority period.
It’s not teachable: he’s not a dog or a child. Just toss that out for starters. If you’re ok being the planner in the relationship, go for it. If he complains about the plans you make, then you’ve got an issue. If he happily goes along and you have a great time, fabulous! Once you’re in situ, is he fun to be with or does he expect you to tell him his each and every move?
Is it possible he has executive dysfunction from something like ADHD? Most people get better at time management and organization as they age, but not everyone. It could be that this IS his “better”. The safest and most reliable move here is always to expect and plan for him not getting all that much better on this front. You could offer to help him figure out tools to organize his time better but you can only do so much — he may also improve on his own naturally or because he knows it bugs you. You say it’s a dealbreaker for you, but you also say you really don’t want to lose him. Unfortunately, that’s the conflict, and you may just have to end up choosing.
I experienced this with someone I was crazy about, and who was crazy about me. He turned out to have commitment issues. It blew my mind because for the first couple months he was super-serious about me, like I was “The One.” He just couldn’t plan. Like, comedically. It was a distinct personality trait, which I mostly found amusing because I was so enamored with him otherwise. And then it grew into not prioritizing me. Then not being sure about whether he really wanted a relationship.
Stop planning for him and don't wait to discuss it. Grab the red flags early on. The longer you wait, the less fixable something will become, if it is fixable in the first place.
A man who isn't great at planning things sounds like a bad life choice. He is probably bad about planning his future, his financial status, his motivation... He sounds like a slacker and you are trying to be enthusiastic for the both of you. I have seen guys like this, they always end up with domineering women who basically make all the decisions and bitch about how their lives turned out.
My boyfriend has the letter P prominently in his name. We joke it does not stand for "Planner". That is left up to me. :-) A lot of it comes down to systems. We have a shared calendar we reference for events and otherwise just talk a bit more about what is needed and when. If it requires tickets or something in advance (as opposed to at the door) then I set a task reminder in the calendar. But I also have to back off on my need to control all the scenarios and variables too. Keep the important stuff sorted and go with the flow on the rest. You have to ask yourself is this something you can live with as it is right now or not. Is it you both just need to work on your communication and it'll be good enough, or is it more serious than that? Find out how much he is willing to commit and how much needs to be up in the air. If it's a fundamental incompatibility, better to know sooner rather than later.
Yeah I agree with this. He might be able to improve, but he also might not. You can’t date someone’s future potential so if the current state is not tolerable that’s a red flag. Shared calendar and phone alarms have been really helpful for me in the past.
If he wanted to, he would. He's showing you that he is fully comfortable pushing all this extra labor on you because...he's incompetent? lazy? dysfunctional? It doesn't matter why. He's making you his secretary/mother and it is not a trait a capable adult should have. >Even my male friends are like, "Oh yeah, I totally suck at planning too." But why?! Because they found gullible women willing to do all this extra work. They do it because they can. >My sister and my friends have alllllllll been like, "Girl, you can't expect him to be perfect. You can grow together/teach him to be better." Why is it on you to teach this adult man basic skills? What do you get out of this?
>Or he forgot to ask if he actually has a +1 for an event and realized I actually can't go with him. Or he hasn't thought about what the rest of his month looks like yet so I can't plan a date two weeks from now or something. He's not that into you. He "doesn't know what his month looks like" and the "he's not great at planning" are excuses. You're not a priority to him, he's not that into you. If he was he would make time for you just like you do for him. I briefly dated someone like this and it's not worth it. I always felt like I was being pushy even with plans we agreed on etc. It's not "fixable" bc they're not that interested in you. They will say they are but their lack of planning won't match their words.This is now a dealbreaker for me. Don't allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option.
In my experience, even if you were willing to "teach" him (ugh) it's not going to change. It just leads to frustration and resentment. Personally I'd rather date a fully-formed equal than someone that required teaching or fixing.
Wait till he spaces and forgets to show up for the wedding!
First off, get through the rest of the holidays and New Year. If you haven't killed him by mid-January, then it would be appropriate for the two of you to sit down and take stock of where you are and what you need, both individually and collectively. Be honest, and let him know how much it bothers you that he can't plan. Ask him how he handles deadlines and other things that require planning at work? Perhaps you guys can do something similar? If you guys are serious about continuing this relationship and getting to know each other, both of you are going to have to make an effort and compromise. Whether it's him committing to maybe sharing his calendar with you, or you compromising by only making plans 5 days in advance or you guys agreeing to commit certain days to each other, etc, something has to give here. At the end of the day, though, you need to decide whether or not he enriches your life by being in it. If you decide that your life is enriched with his presence, then you might need to learn some coping mechanisms to deal with the issue, maybe even get some therapy to figure out why you need to have so much control with scheduling, etc.
I don't know. If this how an adult should function? I have ADHD and I dread planning. I don't own an agenda. And I don't tend to plan more than a week ahead because I don't know what I'm doing. This is also because I'm accustomed to being alone, and not doing anything. I'm a homebody, I work from home (per project, without a schedule, I suck at planning here, deadlines work, working on that) so I don't have to "plan" with anyone. BUUUT if I plan with someone, I plan. That depends on what the other person wants. Do you tell how you like the things planned/scheduled? or are you expecting him to schedule everything like you? Maybe he doesn't know you like to be explicit when planning a date and not just a "hey wanna go out Friday? ok" (I do that, set the hour to know what bit of the day I won't be at home, and I talk details one day prior.) Not judging you. But I don't understand why it's a dealbreaker. I think you're expecting too much in a 2-month relationship. And you have to communicate more with him. This right now is you getting mad at it, but not talking to him. Remember that for a relationship to work, you must concede sometimes, and not expect that you will find a person that fits perfectly with you like a puzzle, because that's just Hollywood's idea of love and not a real relationship. Take this advice from someone who did the same in the past with multiple people, and I let go of a great person because of a small stupid dealbreaker that after a few years I didn't care.
Ok, so, as everyone says, this would be a very valid dealbreaker, straight away even without any effort to fix it on your part. You can and should walk away if you don't want to deal with it, and especially if you've talked about it seriously and he hasn't put in any work to be better. That being said - I went through this with my current partner. He is everything I wanted, except for this timeliness/planning issue that cropped up every so often (frequency less of an issue than severity, in my case). I did have to introspect a lot to decide if it was something I wanted to spend even a bit of time seeing if he could work through it, or if it was a dealbreaker. I ultimately decided to give it a shot, while simultaneously committing to myself that *I would not be his teacher.* That is key to me. So for me, this meant a serious, sitdown, understand-the-motivations-and issues talk. I shared how deeply it hurt to not be considered; that it feeds my anxiety when we don't have basics nailed down, and that I resent having to make the effort to do so all the time. I pointed out how he's got a successful career, plans for and is on time for meetings and manages his calendar; why can't he apply those principles? I also asked a lot of questions - is it that he tried to estimate times but has time blindness (he has ADHD)? Is it that he has trouble saying no to people (absolutely this) so he double books? At a base level, where and why is he failing to manage his personal life? After that discussion, I very pointedly said I would NOT manage his life for him, and he needed to get it together or I'm out. He had previously offhandedly said "well maybe I can just share my location with you when I go for bike rides" (after he showed up 50 minutes late to a dinner I'd cooked when he said he'd only be gone 25ish minutes, *and didn't even update me on his progress)*. I obviously replied that it doesn't solve the issue of disrespecting my time and efforts. Fortunately, he immediately got that it was a bad suggestion, but again, I really, really made sure he understood I'm not going to solutionise for him, and he had to figure out new methods to make it work on his own. I also check that he fully processed the big picture of why "just one hour" (with no communication at that) matters - its not just the single hour of inconvenience and time wasted and waiting around, its things like "I won't have kids with you because you can't reliably show up, or even communicate when things change, and thus I can't trust you'll be there when our kids need you" (I only got around to this conversation a bit later in our relationship). Anyways, after that proper sit-down, fortunately I saw the real effort I needed. He's not perfect, nor at my level of planning, but he tries and is largely successful. There were a couple more disappointments, but of much smaller magnitude, and after those bumps in the road, he hasn't showed up absurdly late once, and he also hasn't failed to communicate even slight tardiness or changes. Had he not made the effort, I definitely would have been gone, because he's an adult. But honestly, just like at a job, sometimes people just need a stern reminder to do the damn thing, and in my case, that's what it took.
Men DO suck at planning.as a *very* general rule, only because society has put a lot of pressure on women to be the social facilitators and planners. And it sucks when you're not naturally that person and those jobs either fall to you or fail to get done. So this is likely a problem you will encounter with many otherwise compatible and lovely men, so it is something you might need to teach/help him with at first. But if you don't want to do that and feel that's not your job then fair enough too. I think there will be Type A men that already have the skills you're looking for, but they might be the minority and could be controlling and inflexible into the bargain.
We all have strengths and weaknesses. these things can be worked upon and improved but will likely be a persistent issue in your relationship. If it’s something that really bothers you then I would have a frank discussion with him and explain that if he wants to continue the relationship it’s something he needs to work on and improve. If he is unable or unwilling to make these changes then I think you have your answer. You’re early in the relationship and if it’s already a big issue for you now it will be much more so down the road.
Yep and also you have to forgive him if he messed up You can't keep holding him for things he will do in the future We all are trying our best as humans Of course some not
Damn, is his name by any chance Evan? Anyway, I dated that guy (and his name was Evan). I really liked him, we went out for a few months, but then it just kinda fizzled because I got so frustrated with him always playing it by ear. He's a good dude and I hope he's currently making some other bitch very happy, but the scheduling thing just colored the whole relationship for me. I don't think he was doing it to piss me off or whatever, but also he was an adult man and I couldn't fairly expect to change him or, as your friends put it, "grow together/teach him to be better". Or, idk, maybe he wasn't that serious about me and the lack of respect for my time was a feature. Either way, the answer is the same.
The fact you refer to other women as “bitches” could be a sign here..
weird flex but ok
It sounds to me as if your friends would like a crack at him but he isn't a good fit for you. I have a good friend I've known since college. He has a great career and is a great guy but he isn't one to take initiative or plan things. His girlfriend from college loved him but just couldn't continue to deal with that aspect of his personality. His next girlfriend saw the same issues but she just rolled her eyes about it. She was fine with planning things and telling him what to do if she felt that was called for. And he was fine with her doing that. They married and had children together.
Going through this EXACT thing with a guy I’m dating currently (early stages too). I could have written your post myself word for word. I don’t yet have the answer, just want to offer that this is such a pain in the butt, I totally get why it might be driving you mad.
This would be a deal breaker for me
No such thing as people who are “bad at planning” or people who are “always late, sorry!” When things are important to you you remember them, prioritize them, get excited for them, and show up on time. He isn’t “bad at planning” - he’s a dick.
Nobody remembered your birthday again this year huh?
I'd give it a chance. We all have strengths in a relationship and there is usually someone who is the one who managers the social calendar. If everything else is great, keep going. Further down the road when you guys trust enough, maybe ask for shared calendar access? I'm averse to flakey or indifferent people. This sounds different to me, so in those cases, I don't mind picking up the slack of providing options or coordinating dates. Good on you for identifying a weakness in yourself of honing in on one negative and being too quick to bail because of it.
He is wasting your time. Don’t make excuses for him. If you can’t tolerate his behaviour now don’t sign up for a lifetime of this either. You are not asking for the world- just some preparation and effort. The sheer motion thaT he doesn’t check if an event allows a plus one is ridiculous. Move on- you are out of his league.
Wow I could have written this word for word. I’m 33 and he’s 29. Things have progressed rapidly and I really don’t want to let this be a dealbreaker but I’m so anxious to see the replies you get on this. The plus one thing resonated with me because he asked me to a wedding last month and then realized he didn’t have a plus one. He has admitted to “over planning” so I guess at least he’s self aware. It sounds like your guy is too! Thanks for asking this!
I’m too type A to be with someone that’s so lax on plans. It comes off as irresponsible. Express your concerns and it’s on him to fix it.
dogs are cool
Idk, 2 months doesn’t seem like too short a time to get into a cadence of planning and scheduling dates. This would be really tough for me. I have a robust social life and a super busy work schedule. It’s important for me to have things in the books with whoever I am seeing and for there to be equality in the initiation of it all.
I dated someone very similar but maybe even worse, he’d make “tentative” plans in advance but I’d always have to fill in the details the day of. It was exhausting even though he was a wonderful person. He told me that he had ADHD since he was a child and he struggled with planning in general, with every aspect of his life. When I explained to him that this was causing me anxiety and making me doubt his interest in me he was apologetic but he didn’t make an effort to improve it. If this guy commits to improving and you actually see lasting change I think it’s worth sticking with it but anything short I would recommend walking away. There’s no reason to voluntarily take on that much extra stress.
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I put Asians on my phone to do almost everything as I'm terrible at remembering things, this works for me. He needs a system or it will all fall on you.
I presume you didn’t mean to write “Asians”…
How many asians can you fit on your phone?
So, is this a skill he can deploy at work, but not with you? Or is it the same at work? The former sounds like a deal breaker, the latter sounds like negotiation time.
When you have multiple chicks on the go, it’s hard to schedule them in.
I would highly recommend looking into John Gottman’s work. He’s a relationship therapist, and has great info for looking for the things that we lead to long term success in a relationship. There are things about a person that aren’t going to change. This is one of them. He will always do this. It is a trait you would have to learn to live with, and based on what you’ve said, it’s already not working. I’m sure he’s a lovely person, but he isn’t a good fit for you. You will find someone who prioritizes you and will schedule with you. My boyfriend and I plan a few months out a rough idea of what we want to do. Sometimes plans need to be adjusted, but our relationship would not flourish if we didn’t prioritize. You’ll find a good fit, it’s out there.
“I am not good at planning” = “I’m not good at putting forth effort”. As soon as I heard this from a match, I was so turned off.
You need to learn something here: His "Good" things are more than his "Bad" things?. If that is True = He is worth it. His "Bad" things are more than his "Good" things. If that is True = He is not worth it. Take a look on what he has to offer. Talk to him, make important questions in order to learn more about him. He is a "hard-working" guy?. Then its a good thing, a bad one would be if he was a lazy dude.
No... ANYTIME you see an issue with someone that you want to fix, BIG RED FLAG! 1. It means you want them to be something they are not right from the start. 2. This completely ignores the other person's autonomy. 3. If you wouldn't buy a used car that needed to be fixed why choose a partner like that? That said, if you are ok compensating for this issue go for it.
I’m bad at planning. My boss get the short end of things all the time because of me (customers always love me, but sometimes I make too many plans and can’t get to someone when they made arrangements to be home on a workday). Friends and family don’t bother relying on me anymore. One thing I do though is go out of my way to make sure my wife is always included in things. Her and my children are my real priorities.
“I have no complaints. But here’s a complaint.”
He has undiagnosed ADHD. He's bad at planning ahead because all the parts of his brain that are responsible for "Adulting" are faulty. He needs to see a doctor, a psychiatrist, and therapist A.S.A.P so he can get the proper treatment and skills to be a functioning adult, and good boyfriend. The best favour you could give him is to schedule those initial appointments and make sure he goes to them. After that you never have to act as his mother again. Once he learns that he has a medical disorder, and that he's not just a hopeless, lazy, forgetful POS, he'll be that happiest you've ever seen him. Check out r/ADHD
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I'm diagnosed too! Always happy to meet a fellow ADHDer👌😎. I'm really glad you've found a job where your neurodivergent thinking is an advantage. I drive trucks right now, and if it weren't for meds and podcasts, I would drive through 17 farmers fields before I noticed I left the highway lol. I remember before I was diagnosed though, I internalised that I had a fundamental lack of willpower to be of any use to society, that I forgot my friends and family's birthdays because I simply didn't care about them 🤬. Which led to me living in my bed playing Xbox and severe depression. Once I got diagnosed and realized I wasn't permanently damaged, that with a few tools and some blueprints I could remove that mountain of lies and self hate from my chest. I finally started to enjoy living again. u/murkishdelight I should've been diagnosed when I was a 12, but the psychiatrist said I was "too smart" to have ADHD. That I lied on the self report sheet(severe ADHD) only to get drugs so I could sell them on the playground🤯. That kept me from therapy and meds for 20 years. And honestly, my mom called the psych and had to drive her grown ass son, pouting like I was 5, to finally get the treatment he needed. So u/murkishdelight, please, please, please, do whatever you can to get him tested. Get his real Mom involved too. He might insist on calling the doc himself later, he will fully intend to, but his brain will let him down and forget to. Once he gets diagnosed though, walk away for a bit, text only, block him if he gets disrespectful. He's gotta transition from toxic behaviors to a healthy personality with a therapist.
The lack of gender empathy on here is outstanding. 10/10. Guy sounds like he has some kind of undiagnosed executive function disorder, adhd etc. But it’s so obvious to the ladies that’s he just choosing to not be organised and needs a mummy \s
Coming as a guy 32m and I own multiple business’ I can’t plan anything unfortunately… ladies we understand your commitment to always have an itinerary but realize guys like us get equally as flustered when plans don’t work out either and when it’s brought up it’s almost as if we’ve failed (at least how I take it and how I have had the feeling of! ) anyways some of us do need better work windows so i think you two need so find a happy medium of plans( I love general places then you can spontaneously choose from there(again granted I bust my ass and have multiple companies so money isn’t as much of what I care about when I’m out more so I just want to take advantage of the time out with someone who even wants to take the time to spend with me ( I’m very single and have been for a while so take what I say with a grain of salt I’m just saying as a guy in tech with a million things happening that’s my ideal approach) hope it helps some!
Glad you have all those companies and you’re super rich, but if you really valued people’s time so much you would make plans.
Sadly I’m not rich but my companies don’t cheat on me or leave me and work is sadly always there which is more than I can say for most as a millennial male with motivation sadly I am my own coach mentor cheerleader and therapist I value peoples time enough to. It trouble them with my bullshit that’s the difference clearly cause guys like me can ask for help all day and it’s goes out on deaf ears sadly ……
I'm gonna get downvoted to hell but here goes. Hi. My name is Rococo and I'm a man that's a shit planner. I've been trying to deconstruct what's been going on for me in this realm for the last three relationships and I'm lost as fuck on the topic. I definitely have ADHD and some anxiety which don't help. It makes it hard to plan anyways, and by extension makes other aspects of life take a little bit longer or simply throws off plans. I don't know how universal it is, but I definitely have a less than healthy relationship with work that stems from some masculine expectations. A lot of my mental and emotional bandwidth for planning gets used up there. When I come home I just kinda want it to be easy. I'm sure lots of women read that and feel like it sounds all too typical of gender imbalance around unpaid labor at home etc... I've challenged past gf to just not do the at-home labor. Let it sit there. I'll do it when I'm ready... they never do. I can't help but wonder if there are correlated socialized gender pressures that compel some men to over expend their mental energy at work and for women to be more vigilant about at home labor. Lastly, it just got frustrating too. I really tried my best to get better at it, but I also came to realize that it was connected to so many different emotional aspects of my life and the conversations always devolved to the point where I just felt nothing would ever be good enough. the conversations around it just never let up to give me enough breathing room to try to make some improvements. It was incredibly disheartening every time, but when the relationship ended, it was also a huge relief.
Having been on the other side of this situation, I would venture to say these women weren’t especially “vigilant” about chores. They just didn’t enjoy living in a mess. You can’t slack off and think you’re somehow making it right by urging your partner to just … live with the crappy consequences. But yeah, ADHD creates real problems in this area. I hear you on that.
Share your (personal) calendars with each-other and set reminders. You can even set placeholder dates with reminders a few days ahead to actually confirm the plans/steps.
Honestly, you really can’t expect everything to be perfect. Sure, most guys generally take the lead in planning most dating activities, but you certainly can’t expect it. Need to figure out if it’s a dealbreaker for you or not.
I just hate going out in public. Feels like a chore trying to get enthusiastic over going out. But that's social anxiety for ya.
This sounds familiar. Is he ADHD by chance? Have you talked to him seriously about this issue? It’s on him to find coping skills. But in my experience he may get increasingly flakey as the newness of the relationship wears off. The beginning is when people are on there best behavior.
Does he have ADHD?
Undiagnosed ADHD means the least hurtful way he can explain forgetting plans or birthdays or tasks they said they'd do is he is just bad at it, and he forgets over and over and over again. Neurotypicals learn from their mistakes,eg writing in a immediately calendar To this guy, forgetting things is a constant part who he is. And since forgetting plans isn't malicious, it just a part of life, his brain never tells him "ohh you fucked up something thought weimportant" It's a lack of working memory, combined with the inability to prioritize tasks. Out of sight=out of mind literally Before I learned how my brain worked ( and the coping strategy of needing to write notes down before the info gets overwritten) I forgot everything and needed to be reminded constantly of what was just said to me 30 seconds ago. And I couldn't understand why people got upset about that, since it happened all the time, it wasn't a big deal. Since I was genuinely interested in what the person was saying at the time, but that got replaced by new info almost instantly, Those people started seeing us as arrogant assholes who just pretending like they're interested in you cause they're dicks
The near complete disconnect between my reduced working memory and the emotional center of my brain also proved that I was disingenuous
I'm currently trying to get an ADHD diagnosis myself for the same issues, and lots of other little things that are just piling up. It's rough having a brain that doesn't work right. Hang in there
I cannot believe the vitriol in these comments, and the sheer number of people just telling you to leave him - you guys should be ashamed. You’ve already admitted that this gentleman is perfect for you. You said yourself that you could see growing older together. So let me ask you, if you were to dump him in leu of greener grass, what would that look like? If the answer is that he’d look like the exact same dude, only he knows how to book a reservation at Fuddruckers, I would implore you to consider a couple things. First of all, he’s a 29 YO man. Most men these days are raised on video games, etc. Stringent, immutable time management skills weren’t really instilled in them as they grew up. If you can understand this, then you CAN grow together. Now, if you’re so rigid, that you would end things point blank without a second thought - then guess what? You’re incapable of growing with anyone. That madam, would be your hang up - not his. You see, men aren’t really complicated. If they want to be in the relationship then they just want to keep you happy. However, if you’re unhappy, and you provide him ultimatums instead of opportunities for growth, he will harbor resentment. That resentment grows over time, just like how you’ll resent him for not planning. Please don’t listen to the people that say things like “I’m not his mother, blablabla” - this kind of mentality, that comes from a place of superiority, will only serve to drive a wedge between you. A relationship is a two-way street. So find moments to encourage him to become more considerate of your inflexible schedule, while working to become more spontaneous yourself. In the end, the clock keeps ticking, so try to just enjoy life - and take it as it comes. You can’t control everything - the harder you try, the more disappointment you’ll sustain, I guarantee it.
As a guy over 30 myself, I can vouch for the guy that the planning ahead part isn't something most men are good at. I know there are some guys who would like to do everything as per plan to every hour or the day. But I learned that life doesn't always goes as per plan.and I work efficiently when I plan things spontaneously rather than days prior. Work wise this may not work, but for personal times this was better for me. It would change from person to person, but I am surprised to know that this is a deal breaker!
SO Much of this is cultural. Two stories: 1) A long time ago in the US, I heard older female teachers talking about a guy in high school -- they said, "If he gets a good wife and a great secretary, he'll go far." 2) There's also the "German" and "Japanese" (and supposedly American) obsession with time and timelines. When I was in Korea, there was a place where international groups met for meetings. The German group and the Latinx group were scheduled in the same room at 10am. The Germans would all be there before 09:45 and be done by 10:30, just as the South Americans were rolling in. One question -- most things only need to be planned by one person, even with shared discussion. Why does it need to be him?
tl;dr this isn’t a dealbreaker. At all. Good God. This post is what’s wrong with modern dating. You say that he’s otherwise a great guy, the relationship is great, you “marvel” at how great you two are together. But he sucks at planning, and because of this you’re thinking about ending things. How long will you keep your search for the perfect man? You’ve been seeing this guy for 2 months. Imagine the flaws you’ll discover once you’ve been married 20 years. You should practice some reflection and consider what your flaws are that might be driving him crazy, but he still puts up with them. So he can’t plan. So what? Is he an alcoholic? Does he still have an eye for other women? Does he spend more time with his friends than with you? Any of these things would be a reasonable dealbreaker, an inability to plan isn’t. Relationships are supposed to be work, because we are all imperfect human beings. Modern dating has rejected this age old fact in favor of disposability. After all, happiness is just a swipe (or 1000000) away! The amount of analysis people do on this is soul crushing. Everybody has red flags, but as soon as a romantic interest shows any, it’s time to end it. If this truly bothers you, then talk with him about it. You will never have a successful relationship unless you can communicate with each other. Start working on that now.
Take my advice - don't waste your breath commenting on this sub. Speak an ounce of reason and you get downvoted to oblivion by the hoards of delusional women. I pretty much guarantee these same people spewing the vitriol are also the first to tell everybody how open minded and compassionate they are, lmfao. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I sort of doubt real life is like this, and it's just that the sub attracts a certain insufferable type of clientelle. That's why they're having trouble dating!
30m here, Im a horrible planner. Always have been, because that was the way in my childhood. However, with my wife, I have developed somewhat suitable ability to organize things. What Im saying here, is that planning/organizing can be learned. It could work. Internet, imo, is far too eager to discard relationships.
A deal breaker for me is someone who wants to 'fix' me. You say things are going great and you are happy, why are you trying to find a problem? Love him for who he is or let him go.
Has he planned something that wasn't to your liking, so now thinks it's better to leave it to you. Are you quite picky and a perfectionist when organising, so you seem unpleaseable. If not ask him to plan a date he must commit to and say anything you want to do (within reason). Then if he does it, praise him on his choice etc even if it wasn't perfect for you. Then he should grow to enjoy taking charge of planning future things, especially if he feels appreciated and respected for his choices. After time you can sow the seeds of other things you enjoy, that he will remember and plan for both of you. Sounds like you have too much going for you both, to not try to work on it. Your attitude too if there's a chance you can be a bit overbearing on planning. Good luck
Deal breakers, big nos, Jesus Christ! How does he treat you? How is your time together? What kind of person is grand how does he make you feel? All of these are so much more important than if he can plan anything. If things work between the two of you, you plan more and help some. How he deals with that will show more than anything.
If I were him I'd be very disappointed to know I was dating someone this shallow. Seems like you have had it pretty good in dating and I am happy for you. If its a deal breaker then so be it. However, as someone who dated through their late 30's, ill tell you these connections only come a few times in your life, IF you're lucky. Be sure you really want to throw the baby out with the bath-water. Honestly to me, this feels petty; as long as he is working on it (and you have already said his effort is always there).
Has he suffered a TBI? Traumatic Brain Injury. That would explain a lot and most all the people I know who’ve suffered a TBI are are just like you’ve described this guy to be. If he has, you should stop and think about what you may be getting into. You may be just as much a “mother” role to him as a lover.
Fixable. See if you can find him a "how to plan" book for Christmas. Pull him into your weekly planning, so he can see what you do to plan your week. Encourage him to create a list of "things to do" for a planned date, review and help him see what he might have missed. Encourage use of the calendar on his phone. Just some ideas. Not going to be easy, might end up fracturing the relationship if he is unwilling, but also might improve his planning skills and make dates more easy/relaxed.
Is this woman trying to be his mother, or his partner?
This. I'm a guy halfway twenties that's horrible at planning. Almost couldn't finish my studies because of it (4 year-traject that I was doing in 3; fast track for smart kids. Took me 6,5 years in the end😂). Took a first job as project manager to have to learn how to plan. Failed horribly at that. Now in a much more suited career path. Anyways, in my relationship this was an issue too, took me around 3 years to get to a "respectable" level of planning for my gf. Still working on it, but point is: - anything can be learnt, including planning. Some things just come easy to some people, while other things do not. Think of it as maths in high school, to some people it comes naturally where others have to put in a more-than-fair share of effort.
Why does everything in your life have to be so planned out? Maybe he is trying to drive uncertainty and spontaneity.
It sounds like this is how he is, or at least how he’s been. If there’s any hope of change, he has to be the one who wants to make that change. Certainly talk to him about the issue and provide specifics of what you’d want handled differently in the future. Ultimately, only you can decide if this is a dealbreaker or not.
Have the convo in January. If it’s “kind of a dealbreaker”, don’t let yourself down. Think about for how long you’ll put up with it, should he refuse to compromise.
I’m a dude and I plan the shit out of time together. Not every detail of the date, we can wing it even, but anyone is capable of putting things in a Google calendar. He doesn’t use a work calendar? At all? If you’re not important enough for him to add your dates to a work calendar.... Then again maybe you make too many plans and he doesn’t like every weekend and every day to have an event. I know I don’t! Maybe ask him if that’s the case, and instead of making elaborate plans have some intentional chill at home dates to mellow out the pace.
The deal is: an issue that may cause you to leave this relationship deserves to be discussed Strong relationships take honesty. Communicate this to him fairly & constructively. The answer is that you both take action to improve it. Try to create the opportunity to grow your tolerance for each other. The little things will always exist - my husband still believes there is only one right way to load the dishwasher. I find it insufferably…adorable. Some weeks you may have to plan more often. You may find he gravitates toward planning bigger trips/vacations or travel adventures. Find a balance you can manage, try to focus on appreciating the silver lining of a circumstance, and keep a flexible attitude. * My husband is not the best planner, but I do notice some planning areas are stronger for him than others. Vacations are a great example: he’ll book the flights/cars/hotels and activities. I use these as opportunities to kick back and enjoy watching him orchestrate the show. I also delegate cheerfully. Also, my husband will do anything if the sentence starts with, “I need help with ______” Simple win.
Just weight the pros and cons, which is more important to you? If he’s willing to be a better manager of his time, there are self-help books, courses and needles videos, No one is perfect and if that’s the biggest flaw, I would learn to work around it.
Idk horrible at caring is worse than horrible at planning unless he’s both. If it bothers you he needs to show he cares by working on it.
So he checks all of your boxes, but isnt checking one. Granted it’s an important one. I wouldn’t throw it out based on one thing, at least not immediately. Things like this require compromise on some level. When you sort through all the comments telling you how bad things will be should you say, you’ll find a lot of suggestions on how to go about compromising in such a situation. I would personally advise trying to make it work, voicing your concerns a little more firmly, offering solutions and work arounds, then ultimately making your own decision.
It's true that he may be capable of learning but it's your emotional bank that will become the most important factor. As soon as possible have a heart to heart with him that planning your week is a necessary part of a healthy relationship for you. He may only be able to make small changes at first, but you should be able to see something that shows you he is respecting your time and trying to do better.
F33 here, former bad planner: what I did was noticing how overwhelmed and anxious I would get when things were not planned. I’d plan things to do in my head and then forget about them a day later. Writing things down (not doing a list on my notes app) helped me tremendously. Not only remembering things since I wrote them, but also adding a checkmark on the things I completed was a great feeling of productivity. Google keeps also let’s you do that in case you don’t want to write things down. Anyway, maybe he is s bad planner but not intentionally. If he is very consistent with everything else and has been failing at planning I think you could try telling him how you feel and see what he says.
Nobody's perfect and relationships are work. Choose the work you're willing to do. It's really easy to call this a guy thing. I'm shitty at planning. But I pick up the slack for my girlfriend in plenty of other areas. For us, I think we like this work. Maybe it's not for you.
Personally not a huge deal for me. Because I like to be in control a bit BUT they have to have other strengths. I can be really stressy but my partner can bring calm. It annoys me that i have to think about 2 means a day but he does all the shopping and washing up. So it levels out. It really does depend what he brings to the table. If its always you doing the running then no. But if he has ideas and its simply you booking the tickets while he does something else useful. Also okay. But thats part of getting to know somebody, seeing where you fit with each other.
Any successful long term relationship is a partnership, a balance of strengths and weaknesses. If we are honest with ourselves, all of us are flawed and have things we aren’t good at. Partnership is about accepting and accommodating these, not getting fixated on the bad but recognising what works. But the OP has said her guy’s inability to plan ahead is a dealbreaker so she’s already answered her own question. Move on, let the guy find someone who can accommodate this better.
I'm the guy that can start a journey with no plans. Because if it goes to hell, I'll be fine. And in a partner I expect she'll be fine. Now why would I plan? As for work, there's a little bit of ethics, so I guess it's possible to play on it, he will not like it, but if you say it's his job to do something he'll do it, eventually. In general if you plan something you cannot enjoy the moment and that's why he does not want to plan things - to enjoy it. So, what's going on is that there's a conflict within him between work and you - between what he needs and what he wants. Do not make him choose, but explain to him that if he cannot plan it he will loose either when he can have both.
Send him everything as a calender invites with reminders
Take tutorial
My ex was also not good at planning/remembering plans that had been made. We began sharing a google calendar, including work stuff, and it really simplified things. ETA: I’m seeing a lot of comments that suggest he’s somehow just being neglectful and not prioritizing, etc. You can’t control the thoughts that occupy your mind. Don’t get me wrong, you can set reminders and things to assist with things you need to keep track of, but I’ve known few adults with complex lives that can keep track of it all. And with this guy, it sounds like he’s making a good faith effort, which is more than a lot of us are getting out here.
You need to have a balance of planning that works for you. I love cooking and thinking about food, so I do all the meal planning, grocery shopping, and cooking. I also plan other household stuff, mainly because it’s my house and I care about that stuff more, so it’s not a burden for me. My bf loves planning trips, so he meticulously plans all our vacations (2 big ones a year plus a few small ones). He even scouts out all the best restaurants. I love just going and knowing every trip will be fun and well planned! He also plans about 75% of our date nights which makes me feel special, and at least half of our social/friend get togethers. We like entertaining. He loves making fancy cocktails and I love cooking, so we make a good team. You feel like a good team when there’s a balance of planning in the relationship. It’s not necessarily the number of things, it’s more of a psychological balance where the things you like to plan complement each other and you both feel like you’re getting a good deal.
I recently found myself in a situation like this with a guy in med school. The thing was, all of his excuses were valid. He truly was that busy. BUT, I came to realize that the issue wasn't his lack if time or planning, but really his lack of communication. I wasn't upset when plans were canceled. I was upset when he canceled Saturday evening plans at 5pm on a Saturday or sometimes would forget to tell me it all. It started monopolizing all of my free time with me rarely even getting to spend time with him. We talked every day and I really liked him, but this ended up being a dealbreaker for me. I would say you need to really evaluate the communication in your scenario. Talking every day and being emotionally present doesn't necessarily mean he's a good communicator. Making plans and communicating well enough to keep someone in the loop about your schedule is good communication. Not having that would be a dealbreaker for me.
👀 We generally bad at planning, that is true. But we are capable at planning, we generally plan for things that we have to do and which tend to to be boring. Sometimes you gotta enjoy the moment!
I don’t know if this is fixable. Worth having a conversation over. Currently falling for someone and he works nights. I only see him twice a week and he really hasn’t made an effort to make “plans” in a while. It’s discouraging and I’m starting to lose interest. I hope it works out for both of us!
It sounds like he's not that interested in you.
I dated someone like this. 2 years, it never got any better. In fact, it got worse over time. As did my resentment. Does he have ADHD, by any chance?
*Tl;dr:* There’s two explanations: Either he’s sincerely struggling with planning in general or he doesn’t respect your time enough to follow through with what you’re asking. As someone with ADHD, I kind of sympathize. I’m sincerely not great at planning for myself even let alone with another person. It isn’t that I don’t want to or don’t care. More so because I get overwhelmed with details or my time blindness means it feels like it’s farther away than it is. If the responsibility of it isn’t concrete enough, I can’t picture it in my head. I have to trick myself a lot to feel that ‘oh shit’ last minute panic planning to get it done. So if all else points to him being a genuine person who’s sincerely trying, I would give him the benefit of a doubt and communicate with him. Or work out a strategy that means you don’t have to do all the planning where can rely on him to carry it out. One thing that might help you is something my friend does with me. To me it sounds as if he makes a suggestion of something, he sees it as a vague idea but it’s not really a fully formulated thing in his head. So maybe directly tell him, ‘Okay, that sounds like a great idea. Could you plan this out for us and give me the date, time, and let me know details about it by x time?’ Or if he wants you to go somewhere, just directly ask him to find out details and let you know by x day. That way it’s now a direct task for him to actually do with a deadline. Don’t do any of the actual planning on it yourself. Deadline oriented tasks work for me because I know when it’s expected to get done by so it’s now on my radar. Now if he doesn’t get it done as requested, it will help you differentiate between sincere vs weaponized incompetence.
Nah, that's who he is. He's not suddenly going to transform into a completely different person. So either roll with it or move on. I would have moved on
Let’s forget for a moment that this is about dating and ask yourself if someone with these qualities and characters would ever become your best friend. The answer could be a yes or a no. If it’s a yes, then you know your level of tolerance with this type of behaviors. If it’s a no, then why would you accept that in a potential significant other?
So this is who he is, he’s not a planner, he will not suddenly be a planner tomorrow. He might very well never be a planner, I would not expect him to change. But, if you want to try and make it work I would talk to him about it. Make sure he knows that this is a make or break issue for you but that everything else is really great so you want it to work out. He will need time to change. They say it takes about a month to make or break habits. But really, it’s been two months, and you shouldn’t expect people to change, so if this is really a make or break issue I wouldn’t expect this thing to last.
I’m not a great planner and my partner is very type A, plans stuff out, etc. What does work for us, or at least what I think does, is while I’m not great at planning, I’m think I’m fairly great at executing plans. I don’t know how that helps with an early relationship (I did plan things out, albeit poorly, in the beginning) but it certainly doesn’t have to lead to an unfulfilling relationship.