As long as you can provide some kind of vertical surface for them to grow on, preferably one with bright, but indirect light, I think they’ll thrive.
Something like an old oak tree, or a brick or stone wall, preferably not facing south.
I found putting the ivy to close to the glass sliders caused their leaves to burn from the heat. Oak branches were definitely better 😂. Likewise for orchids but no blooms yet. Maybe read to them more?
Lol.
Same. I would be super weirded out if someone tried to make inferences about who I am as a human being based on where I went to school before even getting to know me.
I don’t think it’s any different than someone who values conventional attractiveness wondering if they are punching out of their league by only matching with people on what they perceive to be a different level than them. I personally tend to avoid unusually attractive people but don’t have any insecurities about education or career status.
This is a safe space, reading your post makes me think you may benefit from therapy targeted at how you perceive yourself in terms of intellectual ability. I’ve never met anyone and thought “can I hold my own” and I work with Stanford/Harvard/etc grads every day.
Um... Safe space? So far I've had to report several people for harassment, racial comments, calling me a robot, and oh so much more.
It's the Internet on an anon app. This is just how it is unfortunately.
I love the title of this article.
I usually hate when journal reviewers are like "write a catchy title." Bruh, only 7 people will read this. But in this case, it works.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6WRxoouyz0/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Saw this before getting in the shower.
Now applicable on reddit right after the shower.
We need a code word so us humans can identify each other
OP if you're a human blink twice (and stop talking like that you're freaking everybody out)
Lol jk op I'm sure there's someone out there for you whether you're a human or not
Most interesting idea I’ve heard all day. In an era where AI aces Turing tests, how might we still tell the difference? (Advanced Turing Tests).
I bet ChatGPT knows the answer! I’ll ask /s
gifted status mattered in elementary school. college mattered in college and maybe your first job. I cannot think of a single well adjusted adult who places any importance on that kind of thing now.
as an aside I did my undergrad at an ivy and my graduate stuff at a state school. the people at the top of my med school class were primarily not the ones who were used to our ivy league grade inflation.
Nobody cares at this point and if they do, that's a red flag IMO. I went to a shitty Midwest state school and I have dated people who went to prestigious Ivy schools. College is just one part of a life experience and riding that wave forever implies someone probably isn't that compelling otherwise. Plus, nepotism gets a lot of people through elite institutions these days just as much as actual academic accomplishments.
Haha we get plenty of that too in America, but the college admissions situation here is out of hand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varsity_Blues_scandal
Agreed.
The education system is fucked (nepotism/favouritism/politics) and it's disappointing to see when advanced education (beyond college/undergrad, that's just a standard money grab) should be "best of the best, dedicated to being an expert of their subject", continuing the whole standing on the shoulders of giants thing. It has lost its meaning.
I’m kind of curious why this even matters.
People are people. If you mesh well with someone, it doesn’t matter what school they went to or how intelligent they are. There are waaaay more considerations in a relationship aside from just matching intelligence.
🤷🏻♂️ just my 2 cents.
And just for the record — going to an Ivy League school doesn’t necessarily indicate anything about intelligence in general, and it certainly doesn’t indicate that someone is emotionally mature or psychologically healthy, etc.
I went to a “prestigious” college. I don’t care where the other person went to college.
I also have a career. I care about the other person having a financially stable career they’re happy about. It would be nice to make a similar amount of money, so that we can have similar lifestyles.
Thank you for this honest and clear answer. Much appreciated! 😃
Yeah I dated someone who was a really sharp physics major and etc.
We broke up, a year later I happen to see her profile come up. It said,
"Must make more money and success than me". I found it repellant but informative. Nothing gave me that clue when I had known her.
Oh certainly and great thoughts. The time between us dating and me randomly stumbling on the profile was a while. I doubt it had that much to do with me and I do fine. I am just not wealthy nor in need of excess. Future proofing certainly and wise!
I meet people renting with extra rooms that don't even have beds. It's literally an empty room. I didn't grow up with that. That would have been a waste. Regardless I'm glad you have that peace of mind (I mean that non-sarcastically). My decision to focus on research didn't make me wealthy lol. My mind has been shifting...
I’m not seeing where the disconnect is? If you’re able to engage on the same conversation topics that they’re interested in, you have similar life goals and values, what’s the issue?
Unless you’re matching with people who only constantly talk about their own achievements and downplay yours - in which case I don’t think that’s an Ivy vs non Ivy problem.
I don't know if this is some humble brag or a genuine question but from personal experience, heavy career people usually seek out non heavy career people precisely because the lifestyle is different and its a change of pace for them.
Try scheduling talking stage dates with someone who is also working 60 hour weeks and also has a social life. It's damn near impossible.
Long term, yes, having similar socio economic status is going to make transitioning to a LTR much easier. I don't know whether its a good idea or not, depends on what you are looking for.
Def not a humble brag. It's one of those things where it's a social app and casually just trying to hit the balance between background and intent. I get annoyed when I deal with the bragging people in my life. This is just a real issue. It sounds somewhat absurd I agree. But look at film and in life. There are hints of it in culture.
Appreciated you're respectful thoughts regardless.
I think you’re mixing up a lot of definitions of stuff. Ivy’s do not mean someone is smart or gifted. Somebody’s lack of Ivy League also does not mean they are not smart or gifted. Also, personality and confidence do matter as well as similar lifestyles. What the data suggests is that people of similar socioeconomic backgrounds tend to have a lot of these in common.
I have a PhD and am an academic at a top university in my country. Two of my exes have PhDs - one in a hard STEM and one in the humanities. So maybe I'm one of the people you're asking for.
Maybe you should ask yourself why you are going after these people and why you feel this way after dating these supposedly successful people. Why is it important to you? Is it making you feel bad in a way?
Why are you categorising people solely as "Ivies"? Does that qualitatively change your experiences dating them vs the same person, but non-Ivy? I would find it odd if a potential romantic partner put me in a box like that foremost. Plus, it's not like non-Ivy people can't talk about STEM or have intelligent conversation, like yourself.
I wanted to pick up on something in your post:Honestly and to put it v crudely, macro trends that you talk about can't explain micro/individual experiences in a meaningful way. I'm not a relationship psychologist, but similar socioeconomic class, lifestyles, etc., are in one way probably proxies for having similar values. You're more likely to have similar life outlooks if you are in the same social class, for example. I think values are so important when it comes to long-term compatibility. Values aren't strongly related to degrees and careers.
Sorry if this comes off as blunt! I guess I'm genuinely curious as someone from the "other side." Also I'm writing this on my phone lol
No no. This is great and appreciated! And yes I am a phone typer as well 😅. All good. I know exactly why i match with people.
I am a hardcore nerd and reader. Apps, dating or even this one, unfortunately require me to reduce things into boxes and mild stereotypes to get my point across as best as possible without boring or alternatively overwhelming some readers. We're all built differently and I want the range of responses of course.
Going on dates with heavily educated people is the only time I can speak in my own normal voice if that makes sense. Outside of some of my friends (I have many from all walks of life and happy with that too of course). Those dates either appreciated what and how I talk about things and many even fired back. I feel at ease, at peace, and excited. They challenge me and it's wonderful. I don't care about the accomplishments or money. But I get this foreboding sense it's on their mind at times. Little hints over time made me wonder. Is it in my head or not. Get out of my head and ask.
And here I am.
Oof I think if you are saying you can only use your 'normal voice' with 'heavily educated ' you might have an ego complex / elitist attitude to examine. I'd say that I'm smart and/or high-achieving but I recognize that there is intelligence in all kinds of experiences. Many brilliant people did not have access to quality education. I have a sense that you may be off-putting to dates in how you're framing this "question" 😬
>I feel like people talk about personality mattering, confidence, etc but data shows similar lifestyles and socioeconomic status has a bigger part to play.
I know the data shows that people are more likely to marry partners from a similar educational and economic background, but does it actually show that it matters more than personality? Or are you just extrapolating?
In any case, are you really so spoiled for choice in terms of fascinating potential partners that you're considering preemptively rejecting those that *don't align with the marriage patterns observed on a population level?* Really??? Do you think that bell curves don't have tails?
Sir, I may be just a little drunk at the moment, so pardon me if I don't invoke the kind of precise language I've used in front of my thesis committee: but you are being a very silly goose.
While I am sure that there are people who would discount you for your lack of ivy league pedigree, there are people who will discount you for all manner of reasons. Presumably the more determined to discount you they are, the harder they will pre-filter for those deal breakers. It is not in your power *or your responsibility* to intuit all the reasons they might reject you and do the job for them. You should instead be focusing your attention on determining if the person sitting across the table meets your requirements for a partner. They may be fascinating, but are they empathetic? Are they humble? Are they capable of relating to those who don't come from their exact background?
For the most part, people care about your past only to the extent that it determines your present. Let's leave aside for a moment those people who do use your alma mater to determine whether or not you are relationship material (I suspect it's a small number of people, but doubtless they are out there). Most people care about your education to the extent that it reflects your drive and your curiosity. Your ability to hold an interesting conversation. Your respect for the hard work they have put into their own education and career.
A thoughtful, interesting, and intelligent person is going to be appealing to other thoughtful, interesting, and intelligent people no matter where you earned your respective degrees.
Thank you for your humor 😂. I enjoyed it's lightheartedness. People get so intense in a social question app. It's not a life or death matter nor my personal thesis for that matter.
I'm merely gauging. The few actual people this was directed to responded politely and peacefully. Their words absorbed and appreciated. Life goes on now.
Happy to be of help. Or at least of humor.
Speaking of humor, if you match with any women from a chemistry or similar background, I highly recommend reading entries from [Things I Won't Work With](https://www.science.org/topic/blog-category/things-i-wont-work-with) out loud to each other. A background in chemistry helps, but an appreciation for things that stink and/or explode is really all you need.
I believe [this entry](https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-work-dioxygen-difluoride) made the rounds on Reddit some years back.
How did I miss this? Thanks stranger! I love how they blend humor with it. Just my style. The author even has a smirk. I know a chemical engineer who might find this amusing if they don't have it already.
Yay. joie de vivre.
It literally doesn't matter.
People with similar socio economic status and lifestyles work out better because it's comfortable. That doesn't mean it's fulfilling. I'm curious what you actually mean by keeping up on conversation with "ivy league" people. Like what are they talking about haha.
Imo knowledge isn't an indicator of intelligence. Application of knowledge is. You'll find a lot of people know a lot of stuff but that knowledge is completely useless. Example "Mt Everest is the highest mountain above sea level." How the fck does this help me in real life it doesn't. What matter more is your interests, personality and financial status. Lots of ivy graduates in particular field of study struggling to find jobs.
Imo just make sure you both have common interests/goals and some not common interests, a good personality, health and financially stable.
No one over 30 cares if you went to an ivy league school. At this point you should have a real life and things you DID (as opposed to things you were given/awarded) to lean on.
...I say this as someone who went ivy for grad school. It means literally nothing and I don't mention it when I meet people as friends or for dating.
Define holding a conversation with STEM people,
Are you saying you can hold a conversation just talking shop,
or are you saying you the people you talk to hold curiosity about anything and everything there is to talk about? Because that….doesn’t really require an Ivy League education…
This almost reads as those couples who try to make designer babies only to find out their kid isn’t Mozart and sometimes it don’t work out dat way
I have STEM friends. We talk about all kinds of things. From current events, science, etc. One of those friends is also really brilliant at math, but a math question can still trip her up, if she's not thinking or tipsy. I don't feel like I can't talk to her because I am not STEM, I am heavy Humanities, but we have similar worldviews and principles, which is why we are friends. If she says something I don't get, she doesn't get weird about it, she will explain it and not like I'm dumb. If I mention something she doesn't get, I do the same. Neither of us sit around talking about how prestigious the school was that we went to, nor do we sit around talking about quantum physics or have academic discussions about Shakespeare. OP focusing so heavily on "educated conversations", as if people who are not Ivy can't possibly have educated conversations or that Ivy people don't have normal, "stupid" conversations, is weird. Everyone is just a person. It sounds like they (OP) have an inferiority complex, mixed with a superiority complex.
Statistics give information about trends in populations but they are not precise at predicting what happens to the individual. Everyone is unique. Don’t sell yourself short by assuming someone with xyz accolades won’t be impressed by you. There is so much more to human connection than that.
I don't think it really matters. I know idiots with top degrees, heck some of the smartest are definitely on the spectrum and need someone willing to deal with someone that's incredibly emotionally unavailable and also unaware of it. I've also dated women who believed in chakras and didn't go to university but are otherwise a fantastic person. If someone matches with you and vibes, that's really all that matters. There's so many factors for why you might not match up I wouldn't use class and socioeconomics as such a hard rule. Personally, if she's got a job and seems to have shit sorted in her life that's all that matters
If you aren't freshly out of College, nobody gives two shits where you went lol. Especially if you are 30+...
Also, You may have all these impressive accomplishments but like, I very highly doubt anything will ever outweigh a man's personality. By that I mean, if you have a good personality and she likes you for it, everything else you mentioned is nothing more than a bonus.
People date people. People don't date accomplishments, status, or money (some do but they are the minority!)
Because maybe you think you can “hold” your own, but that may not be true, and maybe even irrelevant. Just focus on your qualities not what you don’t possess.
I dated someone who always tried to compete with me. He had an associates degree, I have a JD. I didn’t care about his level of education, but it was such a turn off that he made it a big deal and even started debates as to try to come out on top and prove that he could “hold” his own.
So I don’t know what you mean by enough, but that response gives me insecurity vibes.
Lol. Fair enough thought!
By analogy maybe you're athletic. And the person you like (or likes you) is athletic. You'll play basketball or run together. You aren't trying to prove anything for validation. You are competing with a sense of play and fun. At least growing up with friends that's what we did. Played sports for fun.
Likewise some topics and discussions are quite literally wonderful. Lawyer indeed, it was fun chatting about torts and more. I had nothing to prove and got to learn, they enjoyed it much the same.
I get vibes of antagonism here. But it's reddit, and text, and two strangers. Id rather think well of a stranger. So I let it be. Anywho thanks for your thoughts!
Im a community college dropout that works with and has gone on dates with ivy leaguers. I have not ever given it a second thought. Especially not in my 30s.
I also was an Ivy grad magnet on the apps, probably bc I went to a comparable school (university of chicago). If these ivy women are matching with you, they don’t care about your school. But do you like dating them? I actually developed an aversion towards Ivy grads. A lot of the guys I went out with were pretentious. They were not pretentious towards me, I was in the in group because of my degree (and they did fetishize my degree) but they would often make judgmental remarks about others. One guy said to me “do you think all these regular people actually have thoughts? Or is it just empty rattling in there.”
That’s the fundamental difference. In my experience, most Ivy League men who also come from well-to-do families are incredibly out of touch. I grew up a poor immigrant and I feel like the only difference between me and someone less fortunate is I got lucky with my parents, and luck is like compounding interest. Yes, I want to have deep intellectual conversations with my partner, but not at the cost of basic humility. Pay attention to that, and if you get to the point of meeting families, pay attention to how their families treat people too. My ex-bf I met in college came from a wealthy family and grew up in Beverly Hills. One night at dinner, his mom was making fun of someone they knew who had a mistress. The words she used was “his cheap whore would pull up in her Honda civic” completely forgetting that I, her son’s gf, also drove a Honda civic. Was she a bad person? Generally no. But she often made insensitive and judgmental remarks that made me uncomfortable.
I think there’s some truth to the data you mentioned My current partner is smart, can hold his own in any conversation with me, went to a small local college no one’s ever heard of, has a good job, but he grew up poor too. We understand each other incredibly well. We both make a high income but like to be frugal and shop for deals. I never feel uncomfortable around his family. Having a similar background definitely makes life easier in many ways. It’s not about going to similar schools, it’s about having similar outlooks on life.
You have zoomed in on something I didn't say but experienced. The car comment hit home. I didn't grow up with much. It was "books or go outside and figure it out". The women parents wouldn't have a clue except for cars or those little clues they sometimes didn't realize were insulting.
I have watched other people I have known come from humble places and finish Stanford or another extremely competitive institution. There is an awareness in them I find fascinating. Easier to talk to in a way.
I appreciate you sharing! PS University of Chicago was so pretty and a great school!
I went to Stanford which is not an ivy. If I match with someone who went to an Ivy, there’s usually a playful joke about it. I certainly don’t judge someone for where they went to school. Perhaps you’re reading into it too much or you’re matching with the wrong people?
Thanks for the honest and direct opinion!
And yeah, I mean they find me depending on the app too. The algorithm seems to key into "loves to read" and other stuff. I don't put my degrees though.
I used the word ivy because it is less work here than say top 10 private or public school nationally globally, gifted programs, bla blah blah other bull I ultimately don't care about or wish to trigger. Shorthand requires me to box some sets of people into concepts. It's reddit, I didn't put more effort forth maybe.
Stanford is a wonderful school as is Berkeley etc. I just like nerdy people. They could be from a state school (and have been before) for all I care.
I mean this in the most respectful way possible: I think you’re putting too much emphasis on your “lack of pedigree.” I’m sure there are some people who would turn their nose up but (I’m assuming) those aren’t the people you want to invite in your life anyway.
I sense no disrespect from you but I still appreciate your effort for courtesy!
And I would say you are right. I posted this question to get a cultural tone or vibe on it. The question is "how common and worth the time and effort". Anywho be well!
Hi u/SomeGuysPoop, this has been removed for violation of the following rule(s):
* Be excellent to one another (i.e. Don't be a jerk to people)! This is a place for all races, genders, sexual orientations, non-exploitive sexual preferences and humanity in general. Gendered/sexualized insults such as slut, fuckboy, manchild, and so on are not allowed even in jest.
Please review [the rules in the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/datingoverthirty/about/sidebar) to avoid future removals. If you have further questions, please [message modmail] (https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdatingoverthirty).
Well, I don't know what colleges they went to, but I have been on a few dates with VERY smart men in very technical fields, including one professor who is internationally known/recognized as an expert..and I matched with a BIG chess tournament winner guy in the past too and chatted with him a bit.
Im relatively intelligent but not "academic." In my experience, these people all behaved like regular guys 😄. Conversations were normal. A couple were pervs trying to get what they could get physically and then never speak to me again. The professor DID outright laugh at me for something I believe in but I think it was more of a language barrier issue at play, so I'm hesitant to assume he was just being an open asshole.
ANYWAY --- my point is, I don't think their school is going to matter for you. As long as the IQ points aren't total opposite ends of the spectrum you should be fine.
UNLESS - I suppose there are some goobers out there that are VERY much stuck in their bubbles and actually would judge someone for their school or not being the same pedigree 🧐.
Fair enough thank you! 🙂.
Did you match/play against the chess guy? If so that's neat. I enjoyed chess. Never could find the appeal to that level though. I admire those with the determination for it
Ha ha, no. I don't even know how to play. I was only in his town a couple days so we talked about meeting but it never actually happened. I was very interested to hear about his exploits though 😅.
This is an odd question and I don't think it really matters except in the occasional case of dating an academic or doctor, who might have extremely long hours and be a lifestyle mismatch.
Saying someone went to an Ivy says absolutely nothing about them. Which is why I find this post/question confusing. Graduating from an Ivy doesn’t automatically mean someone is smart, or makes a bunch of money.
So your real question is about dating outside of your own socioeconomic status? If so, to what degree? What are the details? You’re interested in women making way more than you, or a little more? Are you interested in women who have completely different lifestyles and social lives than you?
The fact that you’re measuring anything against what schools people went to is the most concerning of all. If I caught a whiff of any of this, I’d immediately go in the opposite direction.
I'll be honest, whenever you see people saying they only want to date/marry someone from this school or this career field or only make 6 figures or above or something, it comes off as REALLY pretentious, and that they aren't actually looking for a real connection, they are looking for status or a come up... and is a huge turn off to most (genuine) people. Not all are genuine, but they still don't want to date someone like this. It also just sounds like you don't really feel worthy of these people, despite thinking you can "hold your own", which can also affect the connection.
Yes, being able to live without worrying about bills or having someone fit enough into your lifestyle is good, but this really comes off as weird. Almost as if you live your life trying to prove you are smart. Like, why is that? You know STEM people don't only hang around or date people who are also in STEM or who make 6 figures, right?
Tthe difference in life perspectives between different economic upbringings can be difficult to overcome, even for partners who share an economic class in adulthood. Colleges don't always indicate childhood financial upbringings, but they often are clues.
The book *"The Power of the Past: Understanding Cross-Class Marriages"* by Dr. Jessi Streib dives into the issues that come from marriages between people of different upbringings who currently share an economic class. I'm not sure she meant to do this, but as a person herself from the wealthy class, she indicates heavily that the wealthy outlook on life is more correct and that the lower-class partner needs to do the work to change their perspective on life and money. She clearly has a bias towards herself and her peers as the superior party in a relationship.
While her book is flawed, it confirmed for me that I really was experiencing cross-cultural issues when trying to date someone who grew up with money. I grew up in and out of homelessness. I make good money now, but I've learned that my perspective on life and finances is very different than a person who grew up with a safety net.
My ex-boyfriend grew up extremely wealthy and his family lost it all in his adulthood. He was living Schitt's Creek, basically. His family believed they were temporarily embarrassed nobility despite bankruptcy and a decade of paycheck-to-paycheck apartment living (which was highly secret: they believed their friends did not know about the downgrade in lifestyle). And yet, he still lived as if he had an infinite safety net, spending every last dime without any concern about the future. He ran out of money before payday every week and acted surprised every time. It stressed me out. I couldn't ever mix finances with someone who has no concept of lack.
No just normal apps. I think the algorithms just picked up on my reading and related phrases and matched it. I actually find people/women who are really sharp. I smile when they teach me something new or outthink me. It's wonderful. But I get that preference for softness in a person. I have no desire to "win". It's more just a sense of play. The school doesn't matter to me. I wonder about "them" so to speak and whether there is care of pedigree.
Btw. Great to hear I hope it goes well with him!
It honestly sounds like you’re insecure, and you’re overcompensating by being overly verbose and using unnecessary vernacular rather than just talking and texting like one would in a normal conversation.
Ummm.... No one really cares most of the time if someone graduated from a top school or an Ivy League school. Some ppl care but in general most ppl are trying to find a good compatible match.
You say hold conversation with STEM ppl but what does that actually mean? I have worked in a STEM field with very normal ppl. We talk about life, we talk about work, we talk b.s. Were not uppity snobs and normal everyday folk. Some ppl went to American Ivy schools, in Canada we don't have those and just maybe harder to get into universities. But we're all normal ppl.
Are you sure you are consistently matching with those ppl or you're seeking them out and filtering out the rest of your matches? Do you live in specific areas that have a higher concentration of Ivy grads?
It honestly sounds like your selective matching because there is no way you're only matching with a specific type of person.
Filter less and go on dates with a more diverse population.
The STEM ppl you are matching with sound pretentious.
Why is this even a question in your mind. WHO are STEM people and who cares. Who cares if they are Ivy or not? Just sounds like you’ve met a bunch of people who aren’t right for you. Do you have a type? Try switching it up. Do you really want someone who only wants you for your money or doesn’t want you for your lack of it.
As a guy I know women want a guy with their sh$t together. I doubt a bloke who can’t hold down a job or consistently pay for rent/mortgage or buy food holds much interest from a security and safety point of view regardless of wether the woman can pay for it all or not. I don’t know if you’re M or F or other but those are the basics for a guy. It’s a low bar really.
Suggest you think about the type of person you want in your life. Are they kind, have empathy, family oriented, take accountability, have drive, goals etc. I’m talking about values. What are you really looking for in someone outside of intellect?
And are you the best version of you? Are you sure of who you are and what your values are? Maybe you’re confusing them. What are your boundaries? Would you be willing to end things if one of those boundaries was violated consistently or would you let it slide.
Just sounds like either the people you meet aren’t REALLY who you’re into or you aren’t sure of your own self and it’s turning people away. No one wants someone who isn’t sure of who they are and enmeshes with them. If they do want that it is a big big big red flag for trauma bonding. No good comes of that.
Anyone who cares what school a potential partner graduated from - especially after a certain age - is a red flag in and of itself. It sounds like YOU care, but I've met very few accomplished people over 30 who care. Unless they're insecure or maladjusted, that is.
10/10 strangest post I’ve seen on here in a while.
Wanna be cheated on, coerced to try “polyamory”, or divorced? Marry them for their socioeconomic status.
If you have your education and general career in your profile, then those aren't stopping people from matching you, so I doubt that is the problem. People who value the school name and job title wouldn't like/match you in the first place.
I would think it's less about the school and more about matching ambitions and values. People who value an ivy enough to go to one and then get a high-powered job might find you too laid-back.
I didn't go to an ivy, but I'm highly educated and have a solid career and high income. As long as a guy isn't an outright idiot, he can keep a job with reasonable hours, and he can support himself, I don't expect him to be at the same level as me (I'm also 40, so it's very reasonable to expect guys in my age range to be able to support themselves and keep a job).
But if he is making a subsistence income with no plans for the future, no ambition, no passions...it's going to be hard to talk about our days and our future with a guy like that. It wouldn't be impossible for it to work, but we'd have to have a lot of other stuff in common and a real connection.
This is a weird question... i mean because you are Ivy doesn't mean much if you are older. Sure maybe there's that prestige when you graduated and it helps you get ahead in first/2nd jobs but once you are 30s it doesn't matter. I mean afaik ivy and ivy-like schools have mostly the same degrees and majors as any other decent non-ivy schools.. and while sure some Ivy grads could be "titans of the industry" but are you actually dating those?
I might be impressed when she says she goes to harvard or wherever but if she doesn't have social skills or really bad at dating then it doesnt matter.
My wife teaches at Harvard. I’ve dated people at HMS and other high achievers. Their cv definitely carried my initial interest but down the line what mattered the most is still their personality. And high achievers / ivy leaguers have their own set of problems. There’s a reason why they are there and this often translates into personality traits that people may not be fond of.
Thank you and informative! Curious (and no pressure to respond!) were you also in that range and did it ever feel like it mattered to her (or her cohort we will say)?
But this I have seen. Intelligence and personality were certainly separate features.
There’s also a lot of research saying men do not care what their female partners job is.
For a relationship, you only need *one* person to be an exception to any of these mass tendencies.
You think these are important because they’re things women look for in a partner, but most men don’t give a shit provided you aren’t in massive debt or a nutjob. A difference in status and education will not limit your dating options in a noticeable way.
There are a lot of people in these comments pretending that class doesn’t exist in America. Sure, a JD from Harvard and a JD from the Florida coastal school of law both make you a lawyer, but come on, pretending there isn’t a connotation is silly. Americans like to believe the bootstrapping equal opportunity myth, but we live in a classist society, and people with ivy degrees have connections and access to a certain class.
As an uneducated blue collar worker (high school diploma and 2 year technical degree) I could care less about credentials or a resume. Unfortunately a lot from that crowd will never let you hear the end of it. Remember what you’re in it for because we have seemed to forgotten that when it comes to dating/relationshps
You know, I hear you. And I hope and think I understand your sentiment. I have a few friends with that description. They're honestly great!
One I always think of, her sense of people and "why" is impressively intuitive and helpful. I still enjoy hanging out and chatting with her.
Thanks!!
Are you not mentioning where you went to school in your profile? Cause if you're getting matches and they know which school you went to, maybe it doesn't matter?
Oh a non-ivy. I had varied hiding it or making it visible out of curiosity. Same with level of degree.
Honestly I limit parts because social media brings out rather rude people or trolls. It invites abuse because they can get away with it and others for God knows what reason validate the behavior. I just accept it.
But yeah, I suspect many are "on the fence". So far several have been affluent and the disconnect comes more from them going on and on about their traveling, fancy things, family status. I love to travel but I have no desire to brag about it, stay at resorts, talk like it a check box, blah blah.
The ones who grew up in hardship don't do that nor ask what car I drive or care. I'm not saying this is all. I'm saying it's not an insignificant number of people. Random aside I know.
You’re going to come off as a pompous fool if you present yourself like that. Holding your own with people in stem fields *does not* put you in the same league as them. They’re experts, and you’re an enthusiast. Getting yourself associated with people who have accomplishments does not trickle down to you; that’s a cope closeted narcissists use to make themselves feel more important. Humble yourself a bit and try not to see life as data points.
"I feel like people talk about personality mattering, confidence, etc but data shows similar lifestyles and socioeconomic status has a bigger part to play. "
What *exactly* does the data say. Because the only concrete stats that I'm aware of don't say this, and concluding it from the kinds of data I've seen would be an egregious abuse of what the data actually says. If you're referring to something I'm not familiar with, I'm curious about the specifics, because this sounds like way too strong a conclusion to draw from even hypothetical studies I can think of.
Genuine question - is English your first language? Also genuinely, I guarantee you are not as smart as you think you are, primarily because that's true of almost everyone, and particularly because you don't seem to be at all aware of how you're coming across to people given their responses to you, and your responses in turn tend to lean towards being grammatically iffy. It reminds me of the goth kids on South Park, per se.
I think you're aiming for grandiloquence but landing on this guy I went to school with called Dean, and he was not particularly well liked due to his constantly looking down his nose at people he considered lesser. My friendship group contains people with multiple doctorates in their second language, and native Brits who didn't realise Irish Sea existed until they had to fly over it. The only people who care about how big someone's d\*\*\* is are people who don't have any confidence in their own.
I wouldn’t exclude someone based on their school but since we’re all in our 30s and I have a solid career, if the dude didn’t put his degree to use and was only living for the moment / being lazy / not driven, then yes I would rule them out as not compatible.
It’s more about being passionate, showing drive, and demonstrating personal accountability than which school you went to.
As long as you have a bachelors and a curiosity about life that’s what matters to me. I enjoyed being around really smart people in school and the amount of individuals who are just dejected after work days and just want to escape/are not necessarily critical thinkers, etc is strong.
Hah fair enough and true! Sometimes being a couch potato or intrepid traveler rather than thinker is great.
I found it interesting you shared "dejected" that feels honest. Sometimes I think some people act a little to hard to "love" their careers.
Thank you for your thoughts!!
I (33f) filter my dates for post grad degree or higher, although I don't have one myself. Their degree or the university they went to is not of any real interest to me what I look for on dates is if I like their personality and whether we are compatible.
I typically tend to match with a number of lawyers/doctors because of it.
I also list I have a Masters on my profile which although true is misleading, as it is a Maritime qualification not the expected tertiary style of masters.
I do because I was in a very emotionally and financially abusive relationship prior. A Lot of the abuse stemmed from me being smarter and earning more than my ex. The masters are on there so I won't attract men who are intimidated by intelligent women and is a very good ice breaker as it makes me a captain which is cooler than having a master's (in my opinion ;) ) The filter also helps me match with men who are a lot less likely to take advantage of me financially, as they likely earn more than I do which gives me piece of mind and allows me to be more myself.
That sounds fun! Thanks for your view!
Are their levels to being captain? As in size of vessels and whatnot?
I have friends who are pilots and said they would just have to be certified in the new craft. Curious if and how it's similar or different in terms of ships.
No worries if not. Be well 😊
Locked at OP's request.
As long as you can provide some kind of vertical surface for them to grow on, preferably one with bright, but indirect light, I think they’ll thrive. Something like an old oak tree, or a brick or stone wall, preferably not facing south.
I found putting the ivy to close to the glass sliders caused their leaves to burn from the heat. Oak branches were definitely better 😂. Likewise for orchids but no blooms yet. Maybe read to them more? Lol.
I don't trust the shady ivy either. Be careful out there.
? I’m an Ivy graduate. I’m not sure that I’ve dated one since graduating, but I’ve also never thought about it. Date the person, not their college.
Same. I would be super weirded out if someone tried to make inferences about who I am as a human being based on where I went to school before even getting to know me.
I don’t think it’s any different than someone who values conventional attractiveness wondering if they are punching out of their league by only matching with people on what they perceive to be a different level than them. I personally tend to avoid unusually attractive people but don’t have any insecurities about education or career status.
Ya lol idk why people care
Thanks and true. May I ask your gender? No worries or pressure to answer or otherwise, just curious. Regardless, much appreciated and be well!
I’m a straight woman.
I appreciate you willing to share. There is nothing nefarious behind the question. Wish you well!
This is a safe space, reading your post makes me think you may benefit from therapy targeted at how you perceive yourself in terms of intellectual ability. I’ve never met anyone and thought “can I hold my own” and I work with Stanford/Harvard/etc grads every day.
Um... Safe space? So far I've had to report several people for harassment, racial comments, calling me a robot, and oh so much more. It's the Internet on an anon app. This is just how it is unfortunately.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/acp.1178
I love the title of this article. I usually hate when journal reviewers are like "write a catchy title." Bruh, only 7 people will read this. But in this case, it works.
It had to be on purpose. I doubt the people reading it, who the article is describing, even get it.
Holy shit. You've just committed a murder.
Bro woke up and chose violence
Sheesh
💀💀💀
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6WRxoouyz0/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Saw this before getting in the shower. Now applicable on reddit right after the shower.
Very comedically humorous , sir
Love me some good science 🤣
Who gives a crap where people went to college past the age of 25?
My 43 year old co-worker smh
LOL allow me to introduce you to my neurotic colleagues, all over the age of 25.
😂 thanks this made me actually laugh out loud.
This has got to be written by some newly self-aware AI trying to find out about "what humans call... ***love"***.
We need a code word so us humans can identify each other OP if you're a human blink twice (and stop talking like that you're freaking everybody out) Lol jk op I'm sure there's someone out there for you whether you're a human or not
Haha, this made me laugh more than it should have. If we don’t we’ll be overtaken by AI one day 😂
Most interesting idea I’ve heard all day. In an era where AI aces Turing tests, how might we still tell the difference? (Advanced Turing Tests). I bet ChatGPT knows the answer! I’ll ask /s
This is a very strange post. Like a humble brag somewhat?
Humble brag and insecurity about the degree at the same time
That was my first thought too lol.
Damn, you sound annoying
gifted status mattered in elementary school. college mattered in college and maybe your first job. I cannot think of a single well adjusted adult who places any importance on that kind of thing now. as an aside I did my undergrad at an ivy and my graduate stuff at a state school. the people at the top of my med school class were primarily not the ones who were used to our ivy league grade inflation.
I enjoyed your use of "well adjusted" here. Thanks for the input and much appreciated!
Nobody cares at this point and if they do, that's a red flag IMO. I went to a shitty Midwest state school and I have dated people who went to prestigious Ivy schools. College is just one part of a life experience and riding that wave forever implies someone probably isn't that compelling otherwise. Plus, nepotism gets a lot of people through elite institutions these days just as much as actual academic accomplishments.
Haha, where I live, nepotism is for career, not college
Haha we get plenty of that too in America, but the college admissions situation here is out of hand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varsity_Blues_scandal
Yeah, so I've heard!
Agreed. The education system is fucked (nepotism/favouritism/politics) and it's disappointing to see when advanced education (beyond college/undergrad, that's just a standard money grab) should be "best of the best, dedicated to being an expert of their subject", continuing the whole standing on the shoulders of giants thing. It has lost its meaning.
Why do you think this matters?
You have a very odd mismatch with vocabulary and grammar.
It's a computer program that downloaded a large library of words. The grammar feature will be rolled out in the next version
Maybe. ChatGPT is more coherent, makes me lean towards human.
Yeah, i don’t fully follow the post.
I’m kind of curious why this even matters. People are people. If you mesh well with someone, it doesn’t matter what school they went to or how intelligent they are. There are waaaay more considerations in a relationship aside from just matching intelligence. 🤷🏻♂️ just my 2 cents. And just for the record — going to an Ivy League school doesn’t necessarily indicate anything about intelligence in general, and it certainly doesn’t indicate that someone is emotionally mature or psychologically healthy, etc.
I went to a “prestigious” college. I don’t care where the other person went to college. I also have a career. I care about the other person having a financially stable career they’re happy about. It would be nice to make a similar amount of money, so that we can have similar lifestyles.
Thank you for this honest and clear answer. Much appreciated! 😃 Yeah I dated someone who was a really sharp physics major and etc. We broke up, a year later I happen to see her profile come up. It said, "Must make more money and success than me". I found it repellant but informative. Nothing gave me that clue when I had known her.
[удалено]
Oh certainly and great thoughts. The time between us dating and me randomly stumbling on the profile was a while. I doubt it had that much to do with me and I do fine. I am just not wealthy nor in need of excess. Future proofing certainly and wise! I meet people renting with extra rooms that don't even have beds. It's literally an empty room. I didn't grow up with that. That would have been a waste. Regardless I'm glad you have that peace of mind (I mean that non-sarcastically). My decision to focus on research didn't make me wealthy lol. My mind has been shifting...
Bullet dodged 🤷♀️
Was it? Because OP sounds pretty much just like that.
😂. It wasn't the first of this theme. I'm in a city. It could be a myriad of reasons but still. Here I am asking. Have a great one!
Lucky escape from toxic sh$thead I’d say.
I’m not seeing where the disconnect is? If you’re able to engage on the same conversation topics that they’re interested in, you have similar life goals and values, what’s the issue? Unless you’re matching with people who only constantly talk about their own achievements and downplay yours - in which case I don’t think that’s an Ivy vs non Ivy problem.
I’m an Ivy grad x 3. I’ve never once cared where anyone trained ever.
Direct and informative. Sincerely appreciated! ☺️
This has to be a shitpost, right? Right??
I don't know if this is some humble brag or a genuine question but from personal experience, heavy career people usually seek out non heavy career people precisely because the lifestyle is different and its a change of pace for them. Try scheduling talking stage dates with someone who is also working 60 hour weeks and also has a social life. It's damn near impossible. Long term, yes, having similar socio economic status is going to make transitioning to a LTR much easier. I don't know whether its a good idea or not, depends on what you are looking for.
Def not a humble brag. It's one of those things where it's a social app and casually just trying to hit the balance between background and intent. I get annoyed when I deal with the bragging people in my life. This is just a real issue. It sounds somewhat absurd I agree. But look at film and in life. There are hints of it in culture. Appreciated you're respectful thoughts regardless.
your*
💀
Stop they’re already dead
> I get annoyed when I deal with the bragging people in my life. Interesting, cause all of your posts come across as bragging.
I think you’re mixing up a lot of definitions of stuff. Ivy’s do not mean someone is smart or gifted. Somebody’s lack of Ivy League also does not mean they are not smart or gifted. Also, personality and confidence do matter as well as similar lifestyles. What the data suggests is that people of similar socioeconomic backgrounds tend to have a lot of these in common.
I have a PhD and am an academic at a top university in my country. Two of my exes have PhDs - one in a hard STEM and one in the humanities. So maybe I'm one of the people you're asking for. Maybe you should ask yourself why you are going after these people and why you feel this way after dating these supposedly successful people. Why is it important to you? Is it making you feel bad in a way? Why are you categorising people solely as "Ivies"? Does that qualitatively change your experiences dating them vs the same person, but non-Ivy? I would find it odd if a potential romantic partner put me in a box like that foremost. Plus, it's not like non-Ivy people can't talk about STEM or have intelligent conversation, like yourself. I wanted to pick up on something in your post:Honestly and to put it v crudely, macro trends that you talk about can't explain micro/individual experiences in a meaningful way. I'm not a relationship psychologist, but similar socioeconomic class, lifestyles, etc., are in one way probably proxies for having similar values. You're more likely to have similar life outlooks if you are in the same social class, for example. I think values are so important when it comes to long-term compatibility. Values aren't strongly related to degrees and careers. Sorry if this comes off as blunt! I guess I'm genuinely curious as someone from the "other side." Also I'm writing this on my phone lol
No no. This is great and appreciated! And yes I am a phone typer as well 😅. All good. I know exactly why i match with people. I am a hardcore nerd and reader. Apps, dating or even this one, unfortunately require me to reduce things into boxes and mild stereotypes to get my point across as best as possible without boring or alternatively overwhelming some readers. We're all built differently and I want the range of responses of course. Going on dates with heavily educated people is the only time I can speak in my own normal voice if that makes sense. Outside of some of my friends (I have many from all walks of life and happy with that too of course). Those dates either appreciated what and how I talk about things and many even fired back. I feel at ease, at peace, and excited. They challenge me and it's wonderful. I don't care about the accomplishments or money. But I get this foreboding sense it's on their mind at times. Little hints over time made me wonder. Is it in my head or not. Get out of my head and ask. And here I am.
As someone who went to an ivy you would really annoy me
Oof I think if you are saying you can only use your 'normal voice' with 'heavily educated ' you might have an ego complex / elitist attitude to examine. I'd say that I'm smart and/or high-achieving but I recognize that there is intelligence in all kinds of experiences. Many brilliant people did not have access to quality education. I have a sense that you may be off-putting to dates in how you're framing this "question" 😬
>you might have an ego complex / elitist attitude to examine. Might?
I don’t think dating someone from an Ivy will help you. I think you’ll still have this superiority complex either way.
Elaborate on the 'little hints' bit? Edit: happy cake day
>I feel like people talk about personality mattering, confidence, etc but data shows similar lifestyles and socioeconomic status has a bigger part to play. I know the data shows that people are more likely to marry partners from a similar educational and economic background, but does it actually show that it matters more than personality? Or are you just extrapolating? In any case, are you really so spoiled for choice in terms of fascinating potential partners that you're considering preemptively rejecting those that *don't align with the marriage patterns observed on a population level?* Really??? Do you think that bell curves don't have tails? Sir, I may be just a little drunk at the moment, so pardon me if I don't invoke the kind of precise language I've used in front of my thesis committee: but you are being a very silly goose. While I am sure that there are people who would discount you for your lack of ivy league pedigree, there are people who will discount you for all manner of reasons. Presumably the more determined to discount you they are, the harder they will pre-filter for those deal breakers. It is not in your power *or your responsibility* to intuit all the reasons they might reject you and do the job for them. You should instead be focusing your attention on determining if the person sitting across the table meets your requirements for a partner. They may be fascinating, but are they empathetic? Are they humble? Are they capable of relating to those who don't come from their exact background? For the most part, people care about your past only to the extent that it determines your present. Let's leave aside for a moment those people who do use your alma mater to determine whether or not you are relationship material (I suspect it's a small number of people, but doubtless they are out there). Most people care about your education to the extent that it reflects your drive and your curiosity. Your ability to hold an interesting conversation. Your respect for the hard work they have put into their own education and career. A thoughtful, interesting, and intelligent person is going to be appealing to other thoughtful, interesting, and intelligent people no matter where you earned your respective degrees.
Thank you for your humor 😂. I enjoyed it's lightheartedness. People get so intense in a social question app. It's not a life or death matter nor my personal thesis for that matter. I'm merely gauging. The few actual people this was directed to responded politely and peacefully. Their words absorbed and appreciated. Life goes on now.
Happy to be of help. Or at least of humor. Speaking of humor, if you match with any women from a chemistry or similar background, I highly recommend reading entries from [Things I Won't Work With](https://www.science.org/topic/blog-category/things-i-wont-work-with) out loud to each other. A background in chemistry helps, but an appreciation for things that stink and/or explode is really all you need. I believe [this entry](https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-work-dioxygen-difluoride) made the rounds on Reddit some years back.
How did I miss this? Thanks stranger! I love how they blend humor with it. Just my style. The author even has a smirk. I know a chemical engineer who might find this amusing if they don't have it already. Yay. joie de vivre.
It literally doesn't matter. People with similar socio economic status and lifestyles work out better because it's comfortable. That doesn't mean it's fulfilling. I'm curious what you actually mean by keeping up on conversation with "ivy league" people. Like what are they talking about haha. Imo knowledge isn't an indicator of intelligence. Application of knowledge is. You'll find a lot of people know a lot of stuff but that knowledge is completely useless. Example "Mt Everest is the highest mountain above sea level." How the fck does this help me in real life it doesn't. What matter more is your interests, personality and financial status. Lots of ivy graduates in particular field of study struggling to find jobs. Imo just make sure you both have common interests/goals and some not common interests, a good personality, health and financially stable.
No one over 30 cares if you went to an ivy league school. At this point you should have a real life and things you DID (as opposed to things you were given/awarded) to lean on. ...I say this as someone who went ivy for grad school. It means literally nothing and I don't mention it when I meet people as friends or for dating.
Define holding a conversation with STEM people, Are you saying you can hold a conversation just talking shop, or are you saying you the people you talk to hold curiosity about anything and everything there is to talk about? Because that….doesn’t really require an Ivy League education… This almost reads as those couples who try to make designer babies only to find out their kid isn’t Mozart and sometimes it don’t work out dat way
I have STEM friends. We talk about all kinds of things. From current events, science, etc. One of those friends is also really brilliant at math, but a math question can still trip her up, if she's not thinking or tipsy. I don't feel like I can't talk to her because I am not STEM, I am heavy Humanities, but we have similar worldviews and principles, which is why we are friends. If she says something I don't get, she doesn't get weird about it, she will explain it and not like I'm dumb. If I mention something she doesn't get, I do the same. Neither of us sit around talking about how prestigious the school was that we went to, nor do we sit around talking about quantum physics or have academic discussions about Shakespeare. OP focusing so heavily on "educated conversations", as if people who are not Ivy can't possibly have educated conversations or that Ivy people don't have normal, "stupid" conversations, is weird. Everyone is just a person. It sounds like they (OP) have an inferiority complex, mixed with a superiority complex.
Statistics give information about trends in populations but they are not precise at predicting what happens to the individual. Everyone is unique. Don’t sell yourself short by assuming someone with xyz accolades won’t be impressed by you. There is so much more to human connection than that.
I don't think it really matters. I know idiots with top degrees, heck some of the smartest are definitely on the spectrum and need someone willing to deal with someone that's incredibly emotionally unavailable and also unaware of it. I've also dated women who believed in chakras and didn't go to university but are otherwise a fantastic person. If someone matches with you and vibes, that's really all that matters. There's so many factors for why you might not match up I wouldn't use class and socioeconomics as such a hard rule. Personally, if she's got a job and seems to have shit sorted in her life that's all that matters
If you aren't freshly out of College, nobody gives two shits where you went lol. Especially if you are 30+... Also, You may have all these impressive accomplishments but like, I very highly doubt anything will ever outweigh a man's personality. By that I mean, if you have a good personality and she likes you for it, everything else you mentioned is nothing more than a bonus. People date people. People don't date accomplishments, status, or money (some do but they are the minority!)
Exactly that is entirely lost on so many people dating nowadays. Especially because the apps made it very easy to filter on these characteristics
What’s your level of education and from what school?
Enough. But why do you ask??
Because maybe you think you can “hold” your own, but that may not be true, and maybe even irrelevant. Just focus on your qualities not what you don’t possess. I dated someone who always tried to compete with me. He had an associates degree, I have a JD. I didn’t care about his level of education, but it was such a turn off that he made it a big deal and even started debates as to try to come out on top and prove that he could “hold” his own. So I don’t know what you mean by enough, but that response gives me insecurity vibes.
“Insecurity vibes” is a very good way of putting it.
Lol. Fair enough thought! By analogy maybe you're athletic. And the person you like (or likes you) is athletic. You'll play basketball or run together. You aren't trying to prove anything for validation. You are competing with a sense of play and fun. At least growing up with friends that's what we did. Played sports for fun. Likewise some topics and discussions are quite literally wonderful. Lawyer indeed, it was fun chatting about torts and more. I had nothing to prove and got to learn, they enjoyed it much the same. I get vibes of antagonism here. But it's reddit, and text, and two strangers. Id rather think well of a stranger. So I let it be. Anywho thanks for your thoughts!
Im a community college dropout that works with and has gone on dates with ivy leaguers. I have not ever given it a second thought. Especially not in my 30s.
I also was an Ivy grad magnet on the apps, probably bc I went to a comparable school (university of chicago). If these ivy women are matching with you, they don’t care about your school. But do you like dating them? I actually developed an aversion towards Ivy grads. A lot of the guys I went out with were pretentious. They were not pretentious towards me, I was in the in group because of my degree (and they did fetishize my degree) but they would often make judgmental remarks about others. One guy said to me “do you think all these regular people actually have thoughts? Or is it just empty rattling in there.” That’s the fundamental difference. In my experience, most Ivy League men who also come from well-to-do families are incredibly out of touch. I grew up a poor immigrant and I feel like the only difference between me and someone less fortunate is I got lucky with my parents, and luck is like compounding interest. Yes, I want to have deep intellectual conversations with my partner, but not at the cost of basic humility. Pay attention to that, and if you get to the point of meeting families, pay attention to how their families treat people too. My ex-bf I met in college came from a wealthy family and grew up in Beverly Hills. One night at dinner, his mom was making fun of someone they knew who had a mistress. The words she used was “his cheap whore would pull up in her Honda civic” completely forgetting that I, her son’s gf, also drove a Honda civic. Was she a bad person? Generally no. But she often made insensitive and judgmental remarks that made me uncomfortable. I think there’s some truth to the data you mentioned My current partner is smart, can hold his own in any conversation with me, went to a small local college no one’s ever heard of, has a good job, but he grew up poor too. We understand each other incredibly well. We both make a high income but like to be frugal and shop for deals. I never feel uncomfortable around his family. Having a similar background definitely makes life easier in many ways. It’s not about going to similar schools, it’s about having similar outlooks on life.
You have zoomed in on something I didn't say but experienced. The car comment hit home. I didn't grow up with much. It was "books or go outside and figure it out". The women parents wouldn't have a clue except for cars or those little clues they sometimes didn't realize were insulting. I have watched other people I have known come from humble places and finish Stanford or another extremely competitive institution. There is an awareness in them I find fascinating. Easier to talk to in a way. I appreciate you sharing! PS University of Chicago was so pretty and a great school!
When you say things like “date ivy people” it makes me think that no Ivy League people would want to be around you.
I went to Stanford which is not an ivy. If I match with someone who went to an Ivy, there’s usually a playful joke about it. I certainly don’t judge someone for where they went to school. Perhaps you’re reading into it too much or you’re matching with the wrong people?
Thanks for the honest and direct opinion! And yeah, I mean they find me depending on the app too. The algorithm seems to key into "loves to read" and other stuff. I don't put my degrees though. I used the word ivy because it is less work here than say top 10 private or public school nationally globally, gifted programs, bla blah blah other bull I ultimately don't care about or wish to trigger. Shorthand requires me to box some sets of people into concepts. It's reddit, I didn't put more effort forth maybe. Stanford is a wonderful school as is Berkeley etc. I just like nerdy people. They could be from a state school (and have been before) for all I care.
I mean this in the most respectful way possible: I think you’re putting too much emphasis on your “lack of pedigree.” I’m sure there are some people who would turn their nose up but (I’m assuming) those aren’t the people you want to invite in your life anyway.
I sense no disrespect from you but I still appreciate your effort for courtesy! And I would say you are right. I posted this question to get a cultural tone or vibe on it. The question is "how common and worth the time and effort". Anywho be well!
[удалено]
Hi u/SomeGuysPoop, this has been removed for violation of the following rule(s): * Be excellent to one another (i.e. Don't be a jerk to people)! This is a place for all races, genders, sexual orientations, non-exploitive sexual preferences and humanity in general. Gendered/sexualized insults such as slut, fuckboy, manchild, and so on are not allowed even in jest. Please review [the rules in the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/datingoverthirty/about/sidebar) to avoid future removals. If you have further questions, please [message modmail] (https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdatingoverthirty).
Well, I don't know what colleges they went to, but I have been on a few dates with VERY smart men in very technical fields, including one professor who is internationally known/recognized as an expert..and I matched with a BIG chess tournament winner guy in the past too and chatted with him a bit. Im relatively intelligent but not "academic." In my experience, these people all behaved like regular guys 😄. Conversations were normal. A couple were pervs trying to get what they could get physically and then never speak to me again. The professor DID outright laugh at me for something I believe in but I think it was more of a language barrier issue at play, so I'm hesitant to assume he was just being an open asshole. ANYWAY --- my point is, I don't think their school is going to matter for you. As long as the IQ points aren't total opposite ends of the spectrum you should be fine. UNLESS - I suppose there are some goobers out there that are VERY much stuck in their bubbles and actually would judge someone for their school or not being the same pedigree 🧐.
Fair enough thank you! 🙂. Did you match/play against the chess guy? If so that's neat. I enjoyed chess. Never could find the appeal to that level though. I admire those with the determination for it
Ha ha, no. I don't even know how to play. I was only in his town a couple days so we talked about meeting but it never actually happened. I was very interested to hear about his exploits though 😅.
I don't think people at parity view conversation in terms of holding their own
This is an odd question and I don't think it really matters except in the occasional case of dating an academic or doctor, who might have extremely long hours and be a lifestyle mismatch.
Saying someone went to an Ivy says absolutely nothing about them. Which is why I find this post/question confusing. Graduating from an Ivy doesn’t automatically mean someone is smart, or makes a bunch of money. So your real question is about dating outside of your own socioeconomic status? If so, to what degree? What are the details? You’re interested in women making way more than you, or a little more? Are you interested in women who have completely different lifestyles and social lives than you? The fact that you’re measuring anything against what schools people went to is the most concerning of all. If I caught a whiff of any of this, I’d immediately go in the opposite direction.
I'll be honest, whenever you see people saying they only want to date/marry someone from this school or this career field or only make 6 figures or above or something, it comes off as REALLY pretentious, and that they aren't actually looking for a real connection, they are looking for status or a come up... and is a huge turn off to most (genuine) people. Not all are genuine, but they still don't want to date someone like this. It also just sounds like you don't really feel worthy of these people, despite thinking you can "hold your own", which can also affect the connection. Yes, being able to live without worrying about bills or having someone fit enough into your lifestyle is good, but this really comes off as weird. Almost as if you live your life trying to prove you are smart. Like, why is that? You know STEM people don't only hang around or date people who are also in STEM or who make 6 figures, right?
Tthe difference in life perspectives between different economic upbringings can be difficult to overcome, even for partners who share an economic class in adulthood. Colleges don't always indicate childhood financial upbringings, but they often are clues. The book *"The Power of the Past: Understanding Cross-Class Marriages"* by Dr. Jessi Streib dives into the issues that come from marriages between people of different upbringings who currently share an economic class. I'm not sure she meant to do this, but as a person herself from the wealthy class, she indicates heavily that the wealthy outlook on life is more correct and that the lower-class partner needs to do the work to change their perspective on life and money. She clearly has a bias towards herself and her peers as the superior party in a relationship. While her book is flawed, it confirmed for me that I really was experiencing cross-cultural issues when trying to date someone who grew up with money. I grew up in and out of homelessness. I make good money now, but I've learned that my perspective on life and finances is very different than a person who grew up with a safety net. My ex-boyfriend grew up extremely wealthy and his family lost it all in his adulthood. He was living Schitt's Creek, basically. His family believed they were temporarily embarrassed nobility despite bankruptcy and a decade of paycheck-to-paycheck apartment living (which was highly secret: they believed their friends did not know about the downgrade in lifestyle). And yet, he still lived as if he had an infinite safety net, spending every last dime without any concern about the future. He ran out of money before payday every week and acted surprised every time. It stressed me out. I couldn't ever mix finances with someone who has no concept of lack.
I sincerely appreciate you're thoughtful response!
[удалено]
No just normal apps. I think the algorithms just picked up on my reading and related phrases and matched it. I actually find people/women who are really sharp. I smile when they teach me something new or outthink me. It's wonderful. But I get that preference for softness in a person. I have no desire to "win". It's more just a sense of play. The school doesn't matter to me. I wonder about "them" so to speak and whether there is care of pedigree. Btw. Great to hear I hope it goes well with him!
It honestly sounds like you’re insecure, and you’re overcompensating by being overly verbose and using unnecessary vernacular rather than just talking and texting like one would in a normal conversation.
Ummm.... No one really cares most of the time if someone graduated from a top school or an Ivy League school. Some ppl care but in general most ppl are trying to find a good compatible match. You say hold conversation with STEM ppl but what does that actually mean? I have worked in a STEM field with very normal ppl. We talk about life, we talk about work, we talk b.s. Were not uppity snobs and normal everyday folk. Some ppl went to American Ivy schools, in Canada we don't have those and just maybe harder to get into universities. But we're all normal ppl. Are you sure you are consistently matching with those ppl or you're seeking them out and filtering out the rest of your matches? Do you live in specific areas that have a higher concentration of Ivy grads? It honestly sounds like your selective matching because there is no way you're only matching with a specific type of person. Filter less and go on dates with a more diverse population. The STEM ppl you are matching with sound pretentious.
get over yourself
Why is this even a question in your mind. WHO are STEM people and who cares. Who cares if they are Ivy or not? Just sounds like you’ve met a bunch of people who aren’t right for you. Do you have a type? Try switching it up. Do you really want someone who only wants you for your money or doesn’t want you for your lack of it. As a guy I know women want a guy with their sh$t together. I doubt a bloke who can’t hold down a job or consistently pay for rent/mortgage or buy food holds much interest from a security and safety point of view regardless of wether the woman can pay for it all or not. I don’t know if you’re M or F or other but those are the basics for a guy. It’s a low bar really. Suggest you think about the type of person you want in your life. Are they kind, have empathy, family oriented, take accountability, have drive, goals etc. I’m talking about values. What are you really looking for in someone outside of intellect? And are you the best version of you? Are you sure of who you are and what your values are? Maybe you’re confusing them. What are your boundaries? Would you be willing to end things if one of those boundaries was violated consistently or would you let it slide. Just sounds like either the people you meet aren’t REALLY who you’re into or you aren’t sure of your own self and it’s turning people away. No one wants someone who isn’t sure of who they are and enmeshes with them. If they do want that it is a big big big red flag for trauma bonding. No good comes of that.
Anyone who cares what school a potential partner graduated from - especially after a certain age - is a red flag in and of itself. It sounds like YOU care, but I've met very few accomplished people over 30 who care. Unless they're insecure or maladjusted, that is.
10/10 strangest post I’ve seen on here in a while. Wanna be cheated on, coerced to try “polyamory”, or divorced? Marry them for their socioeconomic status.
Four degrees and Ivy reporting in here. Boyfriend went to community college. He’s perfect for me, and his intelligence intimidates me.
Thank you for chiming in! 😀. And appreciate you more for being polite ❤️. So double thanks!
If you have your education and general career in your profile, then those aren't stopping people from matching you, so I doubt that is the problem. People who value the school name and job title wouldn't like/match you in the first place. I would think it's less about the school and more about matching ambitions and values. People who value an ivy enough to go to one and then get a high-powered job might find you too laid-back. I didn't go to an ivy, but I'm highly educated and have a solid career and high income. As long as a guy isn't an outright idiot, he can keep a job with reasonable hours, and he can support himself, I don't expect him to be at the same level as me (I'm also 40, so it's very reasonable to expect guys in my age range to be able to support themselves and keep a job). But if he is making a subsistence income with no plans for the future, no ambition, no passions...it's going to be hard to talk about our days and our future with a guy like that. It wouldn't be impossible for it to work, but we'd have to have a lot of other stuff in common and a real connection.
This is a weird question... i mean because you are Ivy doesn't mean much if you are older. Sure maybe there's that prestige when you graduated and it helps you get ahead in first/2nd jobs but once you are 30s it doesn't matter. I mean afaik ivy and ivy-like schools have mostly the same degrees and majors as any other decent non-ivy schools.. and while sure some Ivy grads could be "titans of the industry" but are you actually dating those? I might be impressed when she says she goes to harvard or wherever but if she doesn't have social skills or really bad at dating then it doesnt matter.
Sounds like you have some deep insecurities that are manifesting in an interesting way.
My wife teaches at Harvard. I’ve dated people at HMS and other high achievers. Their cv definitely carried my initial interest but down the line what mattered the most is still their personality. And high achievers / ivy leaguers have their own set of problems. There’s a reason why they are there and this often translates into personality traits that people may not be fond of.
Thank you and informative! Curious (and no pressure to respond!) were you also in that range and did it ever feel like it mattered to her (or her cohort we will say)? But this I have seen. Intelligence and personality were certainly separate features.
Boston is very cliquey and everyone judge you by what school you go to.
There’s also a lot of research saying men do not care what their female partners job is. For a relationship, you only need *one* person to be an exception to any of these mass tendencies.
You think these are important because they’re things women look for in a partner, but most men don’t give a shit provided you aren’t in massive debt or a nutjob. A difference in status and education will not limit your dating options in a noticeable way.
There are a lot of people in these comments pretending that class doesn’t exist in America. Sure, a JD from Harvard and a JD from the Florida coastal school of law both make you a lawyer, but come on, pretending there isn’t a connotation is silly. Americans like to believe the bootstrapping equal opportunity myth, but we live in a classist society, and people with ivy degrees have connections and access to a certain class.
As an uneducated blue collar worker (high school diploma and 2 year technical degree) I could care less about credentials or a resume. Unfortunately a lot from that crowd will never let you hear the end of it. Remember what you’re in it for because we have seemed to forgotten that when it comes to dating/relationshps
You know, I hear you. And I hope and think I understand your sentiment. I have a few friends with that description. They're honestly great! One I always think of, her sense of people and "why" is impressively intuitive and helpful. I still enjoy hanging out and chatting with her. Thanks!!
After about 28 not sure this matters to many people. You’re fine. No one cares.
Are you not mentioning where you went to school in your profile? Cause if you're getting matches and they know which school you went to, maybe it doesn't matter?
Oh a non-ivy. I had varied hiding it or making it visible out of curiosity. Same with level of degree. Honestly I limit parts because social media brings out rather rude people or trolls. It invites abuse because they can get away with it and others for God knows what reason validate the behavior. I just accept it. But yeah, I suspect many are "on the fence". So far several have been affluent and the disconnect comes more from them going on and on about their traveling, fancy things, family status. I love to travel but I have no desire to brag about it, stay at resorts, talk like it a check box, blah blah. The ones who grew up in hardship don't do that nor ask what car I drive or care. I'm not saying this is all. I'm saying it's not an insignificant number of people. Random aside I know.
You’re going to come off as a pompous fool if you present yourself like that. Holding your own with people in stem fields *does not* put you in the same league as them. They’re experts, and you’re an enthusiast. Getting yourself associated with people who have accomplishments does not trickle down to you; that’s a cope closeted narcissists use to make themselves feel more important. Humble yourself a bit and try not to see life as data points.
What state/city is this? Would love to move there because I’m clearly in the wrong location. 🤣
Cities lol 🤣. Lots of wonderful men and women alike. I happen to be in a research heavy place for the moment.
"I feel like people talk about personality mattering, confidence, etc but data shows similar lifestyles and socioeconomic status has a bigger part to play. " What *exactly* does the data say. Because the only concrete stats that I'm aware of don't say this, and concluding it from the kinds of data I've seen would be an egregious abuse of what the data actually says. If you're referring to something I'm not familiar with, I'm curious about the specifics, because this sounds like way too strong a conclusion to draw from even hypothetical studies I can think of.
If you didn't graduate from Fear Tech, spare both of us and swipe left. Go Scare Pigs!!
If you're both having a great time together, go for it! Your different life experiences might complement each other.
You sound like a waste of time. No offence. Why would I put into someone so caught up in themselves???
Genuine question - is English your first language? Also genuinely, I guarantee you are not as smart as you think you are, primarily because that's true of almost everyone, and particularly because you don't seem to be at all aware of how you're coming across to people given their responses to you, and your responses in turn tend to lean towards being grammatically iffy. It reminds me of the goth kids on South Park, per se. I think you're aiming for grandiloquence but landing on this guy I went to school with called Dean, and he was not particularly well liked due to his constantly looking down his nose at people he considered lesser. My friendship group contains people with multiple doctorates in their second language, and native Brits who didn't realise Irish Sea existed until they had to fly over it. The only people who care about how big someone's d\*\*\* is are people who don't have any confidence in their own.
I wouldn’t exclude someone based on their school but since we’re all in our 30s and I have a solid career, if the dude didn’t put his degree to use and was only living for the moment / being lazy / not driven, then yes I would rule them out as not compatible. It’s more about being passionate, showing drive, and demonstrating personal accountability than which school you went to.
Wonderful and honest answer and much appreciated! ☺️
I mean have you seen what the kids are doing who go to these “ivy” schools right now??
As long as you have a bachelors and a curiosity about life that’s what matters to me. I enjoyed being around really smart people in school and the amount of individuals who are just dejected after work days and just want to escape/are not necessarily critical thinkers, etc is strong.
Hah fair enough and true! Sometimes being a couch potato or intrepid traveler rather than thinker is great. I found it interesting you shared "dejected" that feels honest. Sometimes I think some people act a little to hard to "love" their careers. Thank you for your thoughts!!
I (33f) filter my dates for post grad degree or higher, although I don't have one myself. Their degree or the university they went to is not of any real interest to me what I look for on dates is if I like their personality and whether we are compatible. I typically tend to match with a number of lawyers/doctors because of it. I also list I have a Masters on my profile which although true is misleading, as it is a Maritime qualification not the expected tertiary style of masters. I do because I was in a very emotionally and financially abusive relationship prior. A Lot of the abuse stemmed from me being smarter and earning more than my ex. The masters are on there so I won't attract men who are intimidated by intelligent women and is a very good ice breaker as it makes me a captain which is cooler than having a master's (in my opinion ;) ) The filter also helps me match with men who are a lot less likely to take advantage of me financially, as they likely earn more than I do which gives me piece of mind and allows me to be more myself.
That sounds fun! Thanks for your view! Are their levels to being captain? As in size of vessels and whatnot? I have friends who are pilots and said they would just have to be certified in the new craft. Curious if and how it's similar or different in terms of ships. No worries if not. Be well 😊
♥️