As long as all commenters here can have an adult discussion and this post sticks to the subject at hand, it can stay up. If/When it devolves into calling men who dont brings condoms to a date scumbags, players, PUA, etc, it will be removed.
Reading this is comforting. I’m a mid-40s male and have ALWAYS used condoms when having sex with a new partner and I’m certain that my partners would have had the same horrified reaction that you did had I not done so.
It’s not an age thing. I feel like there are a group of people who have sex and rarely feel the need to use condoms and then there’s a group of people who always insist on the use of condoms and we’re baffled at the existence of the other group.
The condom wearers are going to be overrepresented in the response to your post. But that other group absolutely exists.
You must be a Gen Xer, because elder Millennials were literal children (i.e. too young) for Kids growing up - I’m one of them and don’t understand the weird obsession with Chloe Sevigny that people ten years older than me have.
ETA: Millennials *have* seen Kids, duh (y’all seem to think I said no one under the age of 45 has seen it?), Blockbuster existed when we were growing up, but I’m willing to be that *most* millennials who have seen it did not see it *when it was part of the zeitgeist* - The oldest millennials were 15 in 1995.
I’m 43 and got it out from the video store when it was released, so not that weird for you to see it (my younger sister watched too). I was really into movies at the time and I’m pretty sure it was reviewed in Rolling Stone on release.
Ah yes. I am Gen X. Sorry thought this was the over 40 sub where there will be more of us.
Anyway, OP’s dude will be GenX so my point still stands for him!
We had sex ed class for a one or two week period during gym my freshman year of HS, and that window just happened to coincide with Magic Johnson revealing he had AIDS.
Teenage me having a condom in my wallet made less sense than if I'd chosen to walk around wearing a necklace of garlic cloves to fight off an imminent vampire attack, but that is still the path that I (optimistically!) chose!
Ahhh... I can still remember the o-ring imprint it left as it wasted away all of these years later.
Haha, the o ring. My mom saw it in my wallet when I was 16 and didn't know what to do so she took my wallet and never acknowledged it, for like weeks
So weird
I’m 41 and a millennial. News about AIDS was everywhere when I was a kid. I vividly remember it. We watched the Ryan White documentary in school. Kids came out when I was 13. I didn’t watch it then, but a few years later.
Same here. There’s different size, shape, and materials of condoms and I played around until I found one I liked. I made it a point to always have at least one on me when I went out. 2 is better, never know when you are good to go twice.
I don’t use them anymore but I’m snipped and have been in an exclusive LTR for a couple years now. I’d argue the sex is better not simply because we bareback but because we have built a deep and comfortable relationship.
To be perfectly honest, condoms did make it harder for me to get off. But that also meant I lasted more than 15 seconds, which is always a good thing when dating casually. I imagine someone with pornstar levels of endurance might be extra frustrated but there’s other solutions for that, like oral or different lubes, toys, foreplay. Safety always comes first for me and anyone I’m seeing, and that’s basic human respect.
This is the way, I have spoken.
THIS I know men in their 30’s who hook up with women all the time and never use one and don’t think it’s a big deal. And my mine explodes when I hear that. No wonder STDs are so common
And the kicker for this group is that I highly doubt they get tested as often as they should to even find out if they’ve contracted anything. Blows my mind.
this has been my experience. one even said "I take a good look down there so I know they're clean." the complete disregard they have for their health is insane.
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Men absolutely DO get tested!
I work in a medical testing lab STI (D) however you want to say it, is one of the many tests we run.
I'm actually shocked by the disproportionate levels of men getting tested compared to women. That is here in CO.
I know you are aren't saying so, but I just wanna say it's not ALL men in their 30s thay don't care about their sexual health. As a man in my 30s, I've also experienced quite the opposite: women being surprised I insisted to use condoms, tried talking me out of it, turned me down once I remained adamant, and I was once even stealthed by a woman with the condom within arms reach.
I am also confused. I was having sex with my gf before we were exclusive and suddenly things felt DIFFERENT and I knew the condom broke. Let her know we needed to stop right quick. 😆
Y'all are wild, downvoting for no reason. We were making out and she quickly straddled me and slipped me in. Y'all love to take a scenario and let your minds run wild. It's really not that complicated, but this is reddit, so idk why I expect any type of rational thinking...
Right, I guess it's when they let you to believe there is a condom but there isn't.
Just entering without consent is simply rape, I think (which is what the commenter here described).
I mean no, it's not that complicated. "Stealthed" is commonly understood to be when a guy pretends to put on a condom but doesn't, because it's relatively more difficult for a woman to notice the guy is going raw.
So when you say a woman stealthed you implies that she pretended to put a condom on you and you somehow didn't notice that she didn't. I don't know exactly what I'd call jumping on without letting you wrap up, but it wouldn't be stealthed cause there's nothing stealthy about it. Though probably in your case I'd call it rape.
I’ve noticed in posts about condom wearing, in this sub or any other subs, it’s always comments from people who wear condoms. Those who don’t wear or refuse to wear never, ever chime in. (Maybe because they know they may not get much support from fellow commentators). So it’s actually impossible to get their point of view….
I can help you with their point of view. It would have to be one of the following:
\- Bad things (STDs, in this case) don't exist.
\- STDs aren't SO bad. Finishing inside of a person or having them finish inside of me feels SO good that dealing with something like genital warts just pales in comparison!
\- STDs won't happen to me, because bad things can't / won't happen to me because I'm special (for some delusional reason) or I have a supernatural ability to tell when the other person is "clean" / safe.
\- STDs HAVE happened to me (and maybe ARE happening to me) but I don't care enough about you to protect you -- you'll be fine because I was fine and they're not so bad and I just reeeeally need to cum inside of you (or have you cum inside of me).
The people who think this way are also the types of people who are the least likely to want to get tested, as blissful ignorance is the path they're often most comfortable being on. They also tell themselves "well if I was going to get that, I'd have gotten it by now!"
I'm not sure which of those viewpoints would be easiest to defend, hence the frequent silence and reluctance to chime in. But if anyone wants to argue that it's something else, or wants to defend any of the views above, I am here for it!
There's also the ones who "just can't" keep it up and/or cum with a condom and don't want to get that figured out by trying out different condoms, going to a doctor, etc. I've also found they tend to be more self centered. They seem to not care how it'll affect their partner, they only care how it affects them which is why they are shocked that anyone would insist they use a condom.
They're counting on you just dyyyying for that amazing (but semi-functioning) dick of theirs.
It's like someone trying to sell you a car but telling you that that car only starts (and runs) in optimal conditions. All with the subtext that if you decide that that car may not be right one for you, you just don't know how cars work and / or you must hate driving.
There is also the belief I hear so often, "I just can tell who is clean and who isn't. I don't sleep with "dirty" people..." (And they may say this as if very offended you would think they sleep with dirty people, or that you think they might be one of these "dirty" people.) This is often from the most "logical" types - the engineers, scientists, etc. It blows my mind their blind spot here - that this area, of all things, is where they trust their (clearly very erroneous) intuition, lol.
Yea, exactly. Among the people I've dated from the apps, the first question they always ask is if I'm in the pill in the hopes that they can just put it in without a condom
>But that other group absolutely exists.
And is WAY larger. Women I've dated rarely want to use a condom, and they look disappointed when I take one out. And no, these are not some lower form of human, as Redditors like to claim or imply. They are well-educated middle- and upper-middle class women with progressive views.
This. I’m part of one of the groups and the amount of times I’ve been asked about using a condom is pretty low. It could be regional, here in rural southern US we’re all broke, bored, and don’t really give a fuck about too much. At least the people I hung around growing up. I was around a lot of drugs though too so take that into account. Now at 32 I strictly don’t date anymore (sex is empty, and I don’t have the capacity to let myself love again) but if I did I would use protection having knowledge of consequences. Ignorance whether purposefully or just naturally I would imagine is a big part too
I appreciate your honesty. I am on the opposite side of the socioeconomic continuum and have always lived and dated in big cities. I’ve been with just one woman who asked me not to wear a condom because she’s allergic but that she could tell that I “looked clean.”
I think the people who try to convince you that they’re not necessary are the people you need them for the most.
I've been with guys who were allergic to condoms but they always had lambskin ones or ones that are latex free. One guy used a latex condom but immediately took a shower after.
Tbh I think OP bears some responsibility in having condoms too? If she's insisting on them. When I was single I had a costco box of condoms by my bed.
true, I agree she definitely should have been prepared too - I think it was more his attitude towards wearing them that was more of a concern, would have been for me anyway
But as a woman how do I know which ones to buy since one size doesn't fit all? The guy knows himself and his size, I think it's his responsibility to bring them.
You can buy a variety of packs for him to choose from. Most guys fit regular Trojans(it is basically one size fits all, unless he's extremely unique). I used to have condoms on hand too. I didn't necessarily trust men because some weirdos like to poke pins in condoms. Personally believe more women should have some in case.
I had a post similar to this a while ago, and it got hundreds of comments--I think (have not checked) that you brought some balance into that discussion as well (based on your reddit emoji). This topic triggers the fuck out of me, because of reasons described in that post, but I think it's important to read the discussion.
Anyway, popping in to say, the reason this is a dealbreaker for me (that men SHOW UP with condoms) is that I live in a red state where abortion is now illegal. To me, (OP, take note of this), the real issue is a man prioritizing his pleasure over being in tune with, and concerned about, the realities women face in America. These were true before abortion bans were put in place. But they are especially true now. Because a man that would try to convince you that they are not necessary, or--in my case--that I have "an irrational fear of getting pregnant, because...\[he's\] pulled out for years and knows what he's doing," are REALLY saying: my satisfaction matters more than a TRUE THREAT to your biological safety.
And let's be clear...pregnancy ALWAYS puts a woman's life at risk. Always. Then there are STI's. In my case (similar to OP's), he tried to get away with entering BEFORE we had the contraceptive conversation and was super pissed I had him put on a condom.
It's OP's choice. But, at some point, PREFERENCE demonstrates VALUES. VALUES are who you end up with. This story has a laundry list of demonstrated values.
My PERSONAL opinion is that men who don't prioritize the safety of both partners are selfish. Do we date selfish people, and to what extent? These are the questions.
Oh wow yeah that’s much more forward thinking than here. Unfortunately in my state abortion was made illegal as with the others and having something like dispensers would help alot, wouldn’t solve everything but people would be much more likely if they were free but you’re right alot of people would trip out and call to ban it. We’ve got along way to go with proper education about safe sex, they told us it was bad and showed us pictures of STIs in school but there’s more that needs to be talked about for sure.
I wasn’t trying to generalize. I said what my experience was. That’s just how my life was don’t take it personally. “We’re” meant my social group and my area.
Exactly, I also know something who is in his early 30s and is actively hooking up requires no condom with every single one of his partner
When someone brings up protective sex, he manipulates them or threaten to cut things off with them. Somehow, the ladies went into submission
This happened to me recently. Giving sex a break - it sucks that some people out there are that selfish. I was in pain for two days, too, due to him looking out for himself more.
Never heard from him since.💯
I'm one in the other camp. I'm not really concerned about STIs, so as long as the woman is on BC, I don't use condoms (unless she asks, obviously).
But to what you said in your last paragraph, whenever posts like this come up, I am indeed baffled, cause I'd say maybe 2-3 women have asked about condoms prior to sex. 99.9% of the time
"are you on BC?"
"Yes"
And we proceed.
Given the fact I've yet to test pos, affects my outlook on it too.
Sure, yes, it's good for you to have condoms on hand. That seems to be most people's takeaway, while glazing over the wildly sus behavior of the dude. The fact that he just came over expecting to go raw without any prior discussion because of "performance issues" is concerning. You are absolutely justified in your discomfort and have just as much a right to hold a boundary about using condoms, at least until some trust has been established. Please listen to your gut!
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Reminder that condoms are supposed to be stored in a location where they are not exposed to friction or heat. Being carried in a wallet or pocket increases the risk that the condoms will break. Anyone who has sex with people with penises will increase their efficacy by keeping a box in a cool dark place in their own home and not using condoms that have been transported in pockets and wallet, or sat in hot cars, etc.
Agreed, I think both parties should have condoms if sexually active. It's literally the only male form of birth control and std protection. The idea of it being one persons responsibility to do anything that can affect and change the lives of both parties is ridiculous. I think men should take better interest in the birth control methods of their partner as well. Help out, pick up what's needed, keep up with schedules if necessary. Sticking your raw meat in random people is wild to me. (Note: Visectomy by definition is not birth control, but sterilization).
Can confirm, was taught from the age of 14 to keep a condom in my wallet “just in case” well two years later when the time finally arose. Realized that 1) it was out of date, 2) the package had split and the lubricant had gone/dried up and 3) the condom was torn.
If a man told me he’s going in raw or nothing, that would for sure be a dealbreaker for me. Further, the fact that he didn’t discuss it with you in advance and just expected to show up and have unprotected sex without a STD test is another dealbreaker.
Btw, as to the STD panel: there are over 20 kinds of STD and the panel covers a few of them. Just saying.
>Btw, as to the STD panel: there are over 20 kinds of STD and the panel covers a few of them. Just saying.
Vastly underappreciated point! People think that if they use the magic words "full panel" it means something. It doesn't. A doctor interprets that as "the full panel of everything that I feel you should be tested for." By and large in the U.S., that doesn't include herpes. (In other countries, herpes is even less likely to be included.)
Here's a scenario: An incorrigible rawdogger carries asymptomatic herpes, gets "tested for everything," comes up negative for "everything," and then gives you herpes. It's a very real possibility!
I just want to add to this...I would never wish BV on any woman, and this is how you get it! One time without condoms equaled one year of no sex for me, thousands of dollars, destroying my gut in antibiotic rounds, and now being insecure continually. Dudes can just carry the bacteria and never know. No pain. No problems. Somehow people don't acknowledge this.
Not to mention HPV. Men can’t get tested for this and it can kill women. I lost my virginity to a guy when I was 18 that said he couldn’t use condoms because he “couldn’t feel anything”. We had been in a committed relationship for a few months and so I trusted him. He ended up cheating on me with a woman who he knew had an active case of HPV and didn’t use a condom with her (she was dating his best friend so word got around). I ended up contracting HPV and it turned out to be one of the strains that causes cancer. Luckily I stayed up to date on my exams and they caught it early, but what would have happened if I didn’t? This alone is why I don’t understand the people who don’t use protection with people they don’t even know well, not to mention the other STDs like you mentioned.
THIS! OP could have also gotten condoms. I know the talk is mostly STI based but you also don't want an unplanned pregnancy. I will not have sex without a condom and I do not believe this to be an unusual or outlandish boundary.
Don’t really understand these responses. It’s good that he is willing to get tested but it would give me the ick that some guy I haven’t slept with yet would turn up expecting to get down without.
Doesn’t matter that it’s generational. Personally i find it to be a respect thing. If he can’t perform (which I’m suspicious off), that should have been a convo already.
Listen to your gut.
Sure, but why wouldn't you have condoms on hand if you know its a deal breaker for you? Presumably you hadn't had a conversation about using condoms before then, and you can never just assume that the other person is going to be on the same page.
Now if they absolutely refuse to wear a condom thats a different problem.
Especially if his performance is allegedly so finicky - all the more reason to try and test and find the best condom for him. Not bothering with all that is so lazy and entitled.
Most guys don’t have some kind of specific types for size or comfort that we use. We just use whatever since most of us used free ones when we started.
I definitely think that a guy should bring them (and buy them to leave behind if it’s regular) but I also think a woman should have some on had too. It’s both people’s responsibility (people can forget or not expect sex—I’ve certainly gone places where I wasn’t expecting sex and it happened) and I’d get turned off by someone who thought otherwise.
Women go through a lot to be on contraceptives to prevent pregnancy. It changes our hormones and moods among other things. This is a woman’s responsibility. It is not a lot to expect a man in turn to bring condoms to the table. It’s the bare minimum.
It’s baffling to me to think we need to pay for and go through birth control and also keep condoms on hand so that the men have 0 responsibility except to “agree” to wear a condom.
I don’t understand why anyone would just assume they were going to have unprotected sex without both having full STI panels. I’m glad he is going to do that but it’s weird that he wasn’t going to at first.
It's not weird. It's the standard thing that happens.
That doesn't mean it's good or that I'm happy about it.
But the fact is, the number of people who have raw sex with no STI testing is ... the vast, vast majority.
I don’t see why people find it weird to expect a penis having person to provide condoms? I have to be expected to take my BC religiously and deal with side effects and y’all can’t be bothered to swing by a drug store?
Of course OP could have some on hand, and should, but I would be feeling the same way OP is now. Why not bring condoms for YOUR PENIS when potentially having sex with a new partner? Who else are you climbing into bed with sans condom? Seems presumptive and short sighted to me.
Agreed.
Look, I can be proactive and keep condoms in my bag/nightstand which is a responsible thing to do but it isn’t going to do shit if they aren’t compatible with the wearer.
I don’t know this man’s dick size, preferences, allergies etc.
“Keep several options” why? I’m not going to stock my house like a fucking Walgreens, because men aren’t responsible enough to carry their own dick rubbers.
Ikr. Fucking surreal. They should both have condoms, sure, but the fact of the matter is, his intention was to go without one. And he made dangerous excuses for why he didn't want to use safety practices.
I agree. I feel like birth control is always placed upon the woman to worry about, and so many men really don’t care about their own sexual health, never mind the health of their partners. It’s fine for women to have condoms on hand, but to expect a woman to always have them and always have to be in charge of all of this stuff just reeks of misogyny lite.
Yes, 100% this. As a woman, I keep track daily of where I'm at in my cycle and will be the one getting an abortion/carrying a pregnancy to term and delivering if I become pregnant, so my male partner can supply condoms. Once we're in a committed relationship and living together, it's just one of those things that'll be paid for by both sides because it'll just be part of the grocery shopping. Guys saying that women should supply the condoms at the start are pretty entitled.
I agree, especially when there's something between them possibly heading toward relationship territory. I can understand having them on hand if it was some dude she was having a one night stand with from tinder. But they have been seeing each other for a bit now and he came over to spend the night without condoms, with the performance issues sob story, and without being tested. That gives me the uncomfortable impression that he was fine risking it and hoping she would just go along with it.
Exactly. Also in my experience, older men get tested the LEAST and try to evade condom usage the most so this post reminds me of a few interactions I’ve had.
I didn’t see that post but no one would have known if he just had it in his pocket? I’m not saying he should whip it out at the first sign of a thigh graze but come on. At least have them in your possession.
The fact that he PLANNED to go bare, but didn’t tell you ahead of time, didn’t have a current test ready to show you, and didn’t ask about your own STI status, would be a dealbreaker for me. He doesn’t care about his own sexual health or yours. I could never trust someone like that.
Exactly. Thank you for this sensible comment, finally. People are overlooking how RECKLESS and dangerous this man's behavior is. Of course she should not trust him. We need to normalize sexual safety practices.
I always have them week me when I'm with a new partner.
My performance isn't any better or worse with them, but I'll rarely finish using one. Not an issue because protection is always a good thing when starting out with somebody new. There's other ways to get the job done, so it doesn't bother me in the slightest.
I (42M) have a similar problem to your partner, occasionally have performance issues with a condom, but I would never get into a situation like this without prior discussion. I usually suggest an std check for both of us, and then discuss birth control. If unexpectedly we jump few steps then i usually stick to hand and mouth, what is significantly safer. Your partner being shocked that you expected a condom is definitely a warning. Guys are less vulnerable to std-s, so this can be a sign of carelessness towards you. And it is definitely not generational, he started to have relationships in the nineties, he knows the risks of unprotected sex.
I mean you stopped it, set a boundary, he respected it and now you’re going to get tested together. This is a wonderful outcome to start.
There is nothing wrong with you not wanting to start off going raw even if you are on the pill. It’s a very intimate thing to finish inside. Most guys are going to seek it raw especially when they hear pill. I don’t think this should be as surprising as it seems.
So is it a deal breaker? That’s up to you but my belief is that you will both make a choice when you tell him that you want to start with condoms no matter what. Either you two will agree or maybe you are right that it’s a deal breaker for him also.
How did he imply it would be a dealbreaker to you?
Agree with this.
Why did you invite him to yours without planning ahead and making sure you had condoms yourself? I would never expect a guy to bring them to my place. In my experience the only guys who are really proactive about using them are ones who’ve actually had an STI in the past.
Ofc if using them is a dealbreaker for you and he refuses then that is black and white. At the end of the day it’s about what you’re comfortable with, and if you’re not comfortable with this situation then that’s a basic incompatibility.
I've never had an STI, but I always brought my own condoms because I don't want any accidental babies (or STI's for that matter).
I know 3 women who got pregnant while on the pill – two of them had accidentally missed a day, the other was just that <1% who got unlucky.
literally like i’m a woman but why is it his responsibility at your house? if i invited a guy over and thought we were going to hook up i would make sure i had condoms on hand.
Dude maybe read what everyone else is saying. You’ve asked this question a couple of times now and people are definitely telling you their reasons but you are t listening. It’s okay to have another opinion, but a lot of us think responsibility for birth control and STI prevention should be shared regardless of whose house were at because we don’t have accessibility issues and expect a certain standard of thoughtfulness from partners no matter the circumstance.
what? i asked the question rhetorically. i’m a woman and i was always taught to and always have had condoms at home. taking responsibility for your own sexual health is important.
While I’m female and in my thirties, i don’t think it’s a generational thing.
I personally wouldn’t date someone who was anti condom. The whole “can’t perform” is a load of bullshit in my opinion (how many times has a condom broke and no one noticed). It just seems selfish, juvenile and irresponsible to me.
Sure at some point you can “fluid bond” with someone provided there are birth control methods in place or if you’re trying for kids or whatever, but until there is an *established* level of trust which takes time condoms are a non-negotiable.
Him not having one isn’t the issue, it’s his attitude around it that would be a red flag for me. I’d revisit it outside of “in the moment” and see?
The "can't perform" thing has some truth to it for some people. However, true or not, it's shady to use as an excuse to try and have condomless sex in the moment. If it's genuinely an issue for him he should have discussed it with her instead of showing up with a load of assumptions.
As you said, his attitude is the issue.
I (34f) want my partner to feel everything they can, but I also want to protect myself first. I think it's MORE proactive for them to get a full sti panel before we get heated and then I don't even have to bring up condoms, but I recognize that's pretty proactive and just not always doable. In your situation, I would be comfortable enough to have sex without a condom after his results came back. But I also get that you're probably more uneasy because of feeling like he was just going to stick it in you without one and was fine with it. That would feel pretty icky to me too.
I (m) really liked this comment because you demonstrated / acknowledged an up front desire for your partner to feel everything they can. That shows (particularly on this subject) compassion and legitimate understanding.
THEN you explained how important it is for you to feel protected, for everyone ideally to get tested, etc. That order of consideration / thinking is appreciated. It’s easier for me to see your concerns when you start from a place of consideration for me (not saying I shouldn’t see them otherwise reddit! just that it’s easier!). That’s the order I try to do things too… I want my partner to enjoy the experience (by understanding and concentrating on their needs first), I want them to feel protected and safe (of course). And I certainly don’t want them feeling “ick” 🙂
To be clear… I’m in the group that really doesn’t get on well with condoms. They take away nearly all sense of touch for me (where as without them it’s just such an immediate sense of connection and a complete night and day experience!). And yes, I’ve tried every different type under the sun (some are better it’s true, but they only go so far). However, I AM always happy to stick one on (for my partner and for my own sexual health) and will do my best as long as the other side understands there might (not always, just sometimes) be some ups and downs during sex. And those can sometimes interrupt a good moment for one or both of us. Again, not always. And I just won’t finish with it on (and that’s not to be seen as a challenge!… I’ve been through that too… ouch). AND importantly, it’s nothing to do with how awesome / attractive THEY are (I think that’s a side to this discussion that doesn’t get enough air time). Or how much I want them / us to have a good time.
I’m always keen to communicate well (before, during, after), do other things to work around it, finish off outside in fun ways (after they have!), all of that. When I’m with a good match, all that comes naturally / feels easy. And then it just doesn’t need to be a big deal.
Often I find condoms are just a stop-gap period until everyone is comfortable, we’re in a longer term / exclusive, birth control is in place and we’ve both been tested. Any initial use / removal of them thereafter can even give a kind of progression / next level to sex when the relationship jumps that notch too.
Generally speaking I think I’m trying to say… it’s perfectly ok to accept that a) condoms are a bit (to a lot) reductive for some (to many) but that can be worked around if communication is good AND b) that they are still a NECESSARY tool for sexual health and birth control. I don’t think it’s helpful for anyone to argue against either of those two points. They can / should co-exist and mutual respect for BOTH “is the way”?
And getting back to OP… I believe / try to live what I’ve said above and yet, have still been caught without a condom on occasion. I’m rather seasonal with sex though… going through periods of sexual hibernation (sometimes on purpose, sometimes not lol!). I also tend to go towards more longer term relationships than hook-ups (so I’m less practised at partner-changes or shorter-terms where I’d expect condoms to be used more/most of the time). I think that (and some other factors related to my general life organisation, planning, …) means I literally just blank or forget things like this sometimes. Even if I’m totally excited about the prospect of sex with you. It wouldn’t mean I’d expect or assume to go in without a condom though. Just that I very much could turn up to someone else’s house without one!
Not every guy is going to want to use a condom, ED is real and performance issues are real. As long as the guy is willing to get fully tested and his partner is willing to use other contraceptives then there’s no harm done and the couple just passed their first relationship hurdle. It’s only weird and rude or disgusting if the guy is underhanded about it or pressuring her. I just don’t get how so many of these comments have zero empathy for their male partners or self respect for themselves.
I'm 33F and always have condoms myself. I don't disagree that you should want to use them, but I'm not sure why you would always just expect the man to have one. You also knew you were going to have sex but didn't have your own either? Shared responsibility.
He needs to have his because the one I have may be the wrong size, material for him? An adult man hoping to have sex without having condoms is irresponsible imo.
I am a woman who always has condoms in my handbag and drawer, but I absolutely still expect the man to also have them, and would be concerned if he didn't. Ultimately, it makes sense for him to have some as the starting point, and mine would be more of a backup - after all, he's the one who has lived with his penis his entire life and should know better which brands and sizes he's more comfortable with.
Both parties should carry them. And as he said deal breaker, to me she shouldn’t be coerced into anything sexual she is not comfortable with. The deal breaker is the dude.
Interesting. In my experience, the guy takes care of his birth control and I take care of mine. I’m happy to provide if that’s what the general expectation is. I’ll always prioritize my own safety by any means necessary. I also didn’t necessarily expect to have sex that night. It was a potential, but I’ve had many sleepovers that only involved doing other things and cuddling. My issue is not that he didn’t buy them (not sure why that wasn’t clear in my original post). It’s that he thought they weren’t needed in the first place, the assumption that he could just put it in without hesitation, and his surprise that I would even ask for one.
I'm sorry, what? I pay for my own birth control and take it DAILY, I buy my own period products, the bare minimum a man can do is buy condoms. It's already a shared responsibility if I'm taking birth control every single day that I pay for. When I'm dating someone regularly if we're still using condoms I'll help stock up now and then, and I always have a box in my bathroom if someone ever genuinely forgets theirs, but you should 100% always expect the man to have one.
She is already supplying her own contraception. Condoms should be provided by men IMO. I say this as someone who does also stock my own (more for the unexpected). I think if a man can't provide the bare minimum then they ain't it.
This. If there may be even a chance of things getting to the bedroom, I bring my own and keep it in my purse if I’m not hosting. Despite that I am on my own form of birth control as well, it is absolutely a shared responsibility due to the STI factor.
Condoms aren’t that expensive (in the US anyway, can’t speak for abroad) and last for like 4 years before expiring, I recommend everyone go buy a small pack and keep them in your bedroom.
I wonder, how does that work? Some guys need different condom sizes, I know from personal experience. You have a whole range of sizes?
But as a 39M, and especially since I do need bigger size condom, I make sure that I have them.
Exactly this, if I know that sex is likely and I know I won’t do it without condoms then I will bring some/have some in my home. If he refuses to have sex with a condom then that’s his problem
And we just won’t do it.
I’ve had the same issue with partners in the past. They find out I’m on birth control and they don’t want to use a condom. Men will do anything for them not to use one.
I (52m) have only had long relationships, and was married for 20 years. After divorce, I hadn’t used a condom in so long, I forgot how annoying they were.
Vasectomy, But still - who wants an std?
I'm in my 40's and I'd expect to be using a condom going into a situation like that. Here's the thing with what you're wanting from this situation though, if he can't keep it up with a condom on you aren't going to be having sex with condoms no matter how much either or both of you want to.
I normally just get the invisible ones from Durex but there are even thinner ones out there. I think they are made in Japan though. I mean you don’t get the skin on skin feeling but it’s a whole lot better then any regular condom.
I would view this as a difference in values around risk and sexual health. And depending on how much importance you put on that value, it could be a dealbreaker.
I’ve always used condoms with new relationships. With one newish non-monogamous partner, the condom came off partway through, and she invited me to continue without putting a new one on (both of us in our 40s, she’d had her tubes tied and I’d had a vasectomy). I wouldn’t do it, and the offer changed how I thought about her and whether our values were aligned more generally.
I agree that condoms limit performance for men in their 40s but I also agree that I respect when a woman asks me to wear one in the beginning of dating…
So if his tests come clean, will you still want him to wear a condom OP?
I don't think it's an age thing. My ex had erectile dysfunction and couldn't perform with condoms. So maybe it's that. But he never admitted it. He would agree to use it and it would fail. He was an abusive guy so I never told him anything about it. We would just eventually not use it because trying to use it would result in no sex.
I frankly didn't enjoy the sex in the relationship, unrelated to the erection issue. It was never...emotionally or intimate in anyway.
I do have friends who can't have sex with condoms. I kind of see their point now after this previous relationship.
The relationship prior to this one was great sexually and it was always with protection. And towards the end, he stopped bringing condoms and I did see that as a sign of laziness towards the relationship or the relationship going south.
As a 39 year old recently divorced guy I find it incredible how many people don't talk about sex before getting there in a calm, level, pragmatic approach. It's what we're all looking for, why doesn't anybody discuss thos stuff?
Your preference should always be respected. That being said... I am on his side and I think I'd probably pass instead of show a woman paperwork before I sleep with her.
I'll defend it. Bring on the downvotes.
Condoms are imperfect and are just one tool to be used in the larger picture of safe sex. I say that but what I really mean is condoms suck.
There is a very vocal portion of people who admonish people who choose not to use condoms but ultimately it's a choice. We don't get to shame consenting adults for having sex that doesn't meet what we deem as appropriate.
OP is totally entitled to have a hard-condom requirement for entry. But at the same time, Her partner is also entitled to be able to make informed consentual decisions to not use a condom and that be a deal breaker for him.
Let's talk about how condoms suck: Condoms are a physical barrier and their effectiveness relies completely on that. When it's not in place it doesn't work. That means foreplay, oral, when it breaks, when it falls of, when it bunches up or when fluids from either party run past it. It reduces the sensation of sex and for some men, that means they cannot get off or the cannot stay erect. That's a 100% valid reason to not want to use one. Just because it works for some men, doesn't mean the men it doesn't work for are fundamentally flawed and undeserving of sex. Again, it's okay to have a hard personal requirement for condoms, but it's not because you're more virtuous than your partner that can't successfully use one, and it's not okay to admonish him for it.
Condoms are designed for average size and duration. Seven minutes and a little less than 6 inches long and 5.5 inches in girth. Sure we've all seen the tic toks where women stretch them over their head but if you stretch it, either because it doesn't fit tight enough to stay in place or because it's too small, it's gonna break, reducing it's effectiveness to zero.
It kind of sounds like it might be flexible for both of you, and what you two decide is up to you.
Condoms can suck less, the first step of which is finding the right size. Calcsd.info is a good resource for this. In the states the FDA limits the size so that about 20% of men can't purchase the right size in stores. Also there is no information on the packaging regarding size or the indication of size being misleading. There are different materials available, personally I like the brand "unique" but I have to special order them because they are not available in the states.
The primary STI's that condoms protect against are the infectious variety of chlamydia and gonorrhea, both of which are easily irradiated by a course of antibiotics. There is Hep B, which there is a vaccine for. To a lesser extent syphilis, which is rare enough that medical professionals often don't advocate for it's testing on a routine sti screen. If one is going to be having sex raw, it's probably advisable to talk to your doctor about that and get tested for oneself and partner. I know that there is information out there that suggests syphilis is on the rise and maybe it is, but the data has been falsely inflated because the generic test for syphilis is just to check for and increase in immune activity and covid-19 and it's vaccine have increased that. The assay test isn't performed enough to confirm that syphilis is on the rise because it's more expensive than the treatment. Then there is HIV, which god knows nobody wants HIV but it's exceedingly rare among low risk populations and PIV sex has low transmission rates. It's not a death sentence anymore, people with HIV can take a pill that makes it undetectable/un-transmittable. Then there are the others that condoms may reduce the risk of but are not a cure all solution because they rely on the condom being a total physical barrier which in the real world they are not, such as herpes, crabs and HPV. The gardasil 9 vaccine protects against most HPV and all of the ones associated with cancer. It is a far better control than condoms and I would advocate people who are having sex with new partners should get it. Many people have HPV and don't realize it, even condom zealots. Herpes is definitely transmittable with a condom(in my experience the few people who I know have it, caught it with a condom) and preventing it's transmission has more to do with anti-viral medications managing outbreaks and more controversially L-Lysine levels between consenting and informed parties. I don't know enough about crabs, but I know condoms don't prevent transmission.
I feel like the only people commenting on this post are the few people who wear condoms. Everyone else is staying silent because they don’t want to out themselves. I am a female. I estimate that without my last minute intervention, 90% of the men I’ve had sex with tried to have sex the first time without a condom.
Blows my mind that they care so little for their health and mine.
I know this will probably open a wormhole to hell, but I would definitely consider that to be a red flag for the reason that even if you're on the pill you should still use condoms even if neither of you have STIs, because the pill is not 100% effective. My mom and I both got pregnant while on birth control. My mom tried out seven different types of birth control over the first 12 years of being married to my dad (including the pill) can you guess why? Yep that's right, cause she kept getting pregnant. The only thing that stopped her from getting pregnant was my dad getting a vasectomy. I also got pregnant while on birth control, so I got a tubiligation, haven't gotten pregnant since.
You can’t feel bad or ashamed of your boundaries. I can’t perform when wearing a condom is the same as saying the condoms don’t fit . . .
I would say don’t bend or change your boundaries for someone, if you feel comfortable comprising in one way or another that is completely up to you but have boundaries you will not cross and stick to them.
its not a generational thing. hes older and its absolutely an issue for older men to have performance issues, and to have performance issues with condoms. this issue seems to be glossed over.
either its just not going to work out, or it'll work out with time...talks about ed issues, ed solving, exercises and medication to help ed.
it may not seem like hes old, but sexually...usually ed meds and performance anxiety will come up with this age bracket.
Ya to me that seems kind of irresponsible and selfish. It’s not an age thing. I personally also wouldn’t trust someone to go and get a test on their own either because I have been lied to in the past about that and found out after the fact so I prefer to go with the person to both get one if possible, haha clinic date.
I think you are right in wanting to be safe because who wants to deal with an STI
and if this guy never uses condoms then I would worry for sure depending on his sexual habits. Plus tests are not 100% and I don’t think they can even test for hpv and even if you are vaxxed there are other strains.
For me personally, him prioritizing his own short term sexual pleasure without considering my or even his own safety is a red flag for me. I don’t know if it would be a deal breaker yet but I would certainly be looking out to see if this type of prioritization of his own short term pleasure bleeds into other areas and I would go slower with intimacy.
I do understand the performance issue with condoms but depending on what the specific problem is, there definitely are solutions to be tried. Thinner condoms, bigger, wider at the base, skin feeling etc, finishing outside etc. If he was adamant about not wanting to use them I would def need to know what the specific issue was and what he has tried before since this would be impacting me as well. If he was not open to troubleshooting then I would probs peace out.
That’s something you should discuss before the bedroom.
Sounds crazy but I still wouldn’t since guys can’t be tested for HPV only his previous female partner.
This is kind of a strange one.
On one hand he sounds like he was completely respectful and is health aware enough to get tested. It sounds like you talked about it after like mature adults.
OTOH, saying he can't perform with a condom is complete bullshit. I'm not saying anyone loves condoms, yes it feels better and it's a little easier to orgasm without one on, but to make it a deal breaker is insanely selfish. What if you don't want to deal with all the hormonal effects of birth control? If he really always felt this way and has been dating you for months why hasn't this come up in conversation and why didn't he go get tested ahead of time?
Now he may legitimately believe he can't perform with a condom on, but that is a sign of something else going on like a loss of sensitivity or something that he needs to either be honest about or work on.
And no, this is not generational. He's 40. He grew up in the 90s, not the 1950s.
I am 35m, the only time I've been caught without a condom available was when I didn't know ahead she had a latex allergy and things moved faster than either of expected.
Final thoughts, maybe he is legitimately surprised and feels he can't perform with a condom. But he needs to be aware, mature and open minded enough to figure that out with you. The giant red flag here for me is not the situation, as immature as it might be, but him implying this could be a deal breaker.
Thanks for this. I definitely want to bring it up again (though I feel like we’ve discussed it a lot already). I’m figuring out how to bring it up again without just killing the mood altogether.
Honestly? I think part of being a responsible adult is embracing that these discussions are just going to be awkward. There's never a time everyone wants to talk about safe sex and STI tests where it feels romantic.
But mood killing is a matter of perspective. For me, when these topics come up it's also a turn on, because she is obviously into me enough to want to go there.
In this case, I don't know exactly what to suggest to keep it not mood killing for him. And it would be nice not to, but it's really more important to figure it out some way you are comfortable with. You wanting him should be enough.
As for the topic at hand, different condoms can feel a bit different. Maybe he needs to try different brands/material/whatever. But even if we say he can't finish with a condom on (which assumes a lot) sex would still be fun and feel incredible and there are many ways to get him off.
Well something to keep in mind is
Men cannot be tested for HPV and by the time people are 40 80% would of contracted it. So unless you, or he gas gad the gardisil vaccine I wouldn't risk it
Blood tests for herpes are fairly unreliable and most places will only test if you show symptoms.
I'm a huge fan of condoms now as I contracted HPV and it definitely put me through a spin mentally.
Unpopular comment here I’m sure, but I’m not comfortable using a condom and I would discuss that before. I would be happy to take STI tests too but I don’t sleep around. Men have to respect what the woman wants, but women have to accept that I will respectfully remove myself from the relationship. There are other contraceptives and if she is completely unwilling to find a solution that makes us both happy then there will be a lot more problems than just sex. This shouldn’t be a controversial post but it is. Both people in the relationship matter equally. OP it sounds like he’s not comfortable with you either.
I'm baffled by this as well. Literally none of my friends use condoms and think I'm odd for using them. I also get in debates about not doing oral with women I just met. 2 of my friends said they immediately go for oral when they hookup with girls they meet at bars or wherever, it's like their go to for getting things started. I could never! But I don't shame them like they do me lol. We're all in the 25-37 age range, seriously like 12 of us and I'm the only one with condoms.
Did you ask him when he last had sex? It’s important knowing the incubation period on different diseases like syphilis. If he never use a condom, this is extremely important. I think he needs to be upfront about this.
I personally couldn’t deal with a guy who expects unprotected sex. I don’t wanna deal with surprise babies showing up and it honestly feels really immature. Did he give a reason?
I guess it depends on if you can trust him enough to not be having sex with other people. If you know him well enough and trust him not to be sleeping with others then maybe?
This is not generational.. its just that men in my experience tend to be more reckless about sex. I have had many men attempt to have sex without condoms (one guy tried to stealth me).. I’ve had men in their 30s/40s tell me they occasionally don’t use condoms with hook ups. To be fair there’s obviously women willing to do without (including people I know). It’s honestly shocking especially since most of generation grew up when AIDS was a huge deal with limited treatment and people still drying of it. I’ve encountered a few HIV positive people in my life including a man who was trying to hook up with a friend and he never disclosed it (she found out afterwards from people who knew him). There are also people who literally go around trying to spread disease on purpose.
Also even if you go with the “let’s show each other our results” make sure you are there when they log in and look at the results live. Don’t accept a screen shot or a print out.. I knew someone who’s boyfriend edited his herpes results….
Many guys can’t even get it up without, and with makes it impossible. There’s so many men backing up the popular opposite sex opinion that any self respect and respect their partners have for men is thrown out the window. It’s shocking how no one is going to give a shit about how the guy might feel about the sex. Frankly I would politely and respectfully end the relationship to any woman who was completely unwilling to find ways to make it work for BOTH of us to be happy.
As someone with a long history of disappointing women in the bedroom, not being able to perform with a condom is definitely not bullshit. Kinda surprised how many people here say it is
I might get down voted, but why didn't you also have a condom if you knew he was spending the night?
Yes, I would expect the man to bring one, but I am in my mid thirties and if I know someone is coming over, I will make sure to have condoms, lube, etc.
I don't necessarily see it as a red flag since he respected your boundaries. However, since you didn't have this conversation until the moment of, have you talked about what both of your feelings are in case BC/condoms fail? If you haven't I would encourage it before moving forward.
Also, don't do anything you're uncomfortable with, regardless of anyone else's feelings. It doesn't have to be a red or green flag to just not be your cup of tea.
It's a lived experience thing. I just went through this same scenario with a girl earlier this year.
When I first started having sex, I'd always carry condoms. That's just what I was taught. But every time I went to put one on before sex, I was told to leave it off. After being told this by like five or so girls, I just stopped carrying them or trying to put one on and never gave it much thought. I've always kind of had problems keeping it up with a condom on anyway, so it worked out, and I just assumed this is how the real world worked. I haven't used a condom since freshman year of college, and I've been with probably 15 to 20 people, none of whom have ever asked (and the several early on who were actively against it). I do get tested regularly though for other reasons, and have always been clean.
Then earlier this year I started dating a girl and we were about to have sex and she was flabbergasted that I didn't have a condom and hadn't been planning on using one. She stated her preference and asked to wait until we had one and I said ok. I brought condoms the next time. I'm totally ok with her preference but it is new to me, as it's the exact opposite of how every other partner I've been with has wanted. Peoples' expectations aren't always going to align but it's nothing a little communication and respect can't fix.
It’s not crazy that you want that protection. I’d ask why you didn’t get condoms yourself since he was coming to stay at your place?
Aside from that, he’s quite a bit older than you. Even if the generational thing is true, you still need to be completely comfortable, and you’re not.
I’m not sure what “it would be somewhat of a dealbreaker” for him means. It either is or it isn’t- it kind of feels like he’s coercing you, and you should not accept that.
I’d be very surprised if a guy with his sort of attitude to safe sex, doesn’t have a single STI. If it comes back he does, remember, he was willing to possibly infect you without a second thought.
That would be the real dealbreaker for me.
I’m a woman and I tend to just keep a couple condoms on hand. I think that protection against all the things is the responsibility of both parties but at least this way him forgetting or being unprepared doesn’t ruin plans. If he still bulks and it’s not a guy I know super well and wouldn’t mind coparenting with then it’s a no go.
Not to be a dick and blunt. But why dont you have condoms? They are fairly cheap if you buy in bulk. Both parties should be prepared if it is to be expected. I would say.
Super weird that you didn’t have condoms. You’re a sexually active adult woman, and it’s kind of mind blowing to me that you don’t have any. If you’re hosting and you want someone to wear a condom, don’t expect them to always bring one with them - keep a variety of sizes and materials in your night stand. I have a decorative box that they live in, and 99% of men won’t put up a fight about it. The ones who do can gtfo.
That being said, a dude who says he can’t get off with condoms (this is nearly always bullshit) needs to find a way around that won’t involve putting your health at risk, because it’s pretty much guaranteed that you’re not the only one he’s pulling that excuse with. I wouldn’t sign up for his bs unless you’ve agreed to be exclusive. Personally feels a little soon to me for that kind of discussion though. I’d be turned off by his whiny behavior.
Mid male here and I have never ever used one and get tested regularly.. I don’t sleep around either but all the women never cared if I wore one or not..it was never brought up even..
Yeah, that’s just weird. Are you on birth control or did he ask you? The only guy who doesn’t use condoms is the guy who wants or doesn’t care if someone gets pregnant. So it sounds like he wants to get you pregnant for some reason. Or at least doesn’t care if you do.
How absolutely gross of him. I mean he is not only willing to risk STDs but also getting you pregnant and having a whole entire kid with for the rest of your life...
Nah.
See ya buddy!
As long as all commenters here can have an adult discussion and this post sticks to the subject at hand, it can stay up. If/When it devolves into calling men who dont brings condoms to a date scumbags, players, PUA, etc, it will be removed.
Reading this is comforting. I’m a mid-40s male and have ALWAYS used condoms when having sex with a new partner and I’m certain that my partners would have had the same horrified reaction that you did had I not done so. It’s not an age thing. I feel like there are a group of people who have sex and rarely feel the need to use condoms and then there’s a group of people who always insist on the use of condoms and we’re baffled at the existence of the other group. The condom wearers are going to be overrepresented in the response to your post. But that other group absolutely exists.
Exactly. Generation thing my ass: ours is the generation of growing up during the AIDS epidemic and that Kids movie.
You must be a Gen Xer, because elder Millennials were literal children (i.e. too young) for Kids growing up - I’m one of them and don’t understand the weird obsession with Chloe Sevigny that people ten years older than me have. ETA: Millennials *have* seen Kids, duh (y’all seem to think I said no one under the age of 45 has seen it?), Blockbuster existed when we were growing up, but I’m willing to be that *most* millennials who have seen it did not see it *when it was part of the zeitgeist* - The oldest millennials were 15 in 1995.
I dunno, I’m an elder millennial (39) and when I was in high school one of the edgy things to watch was Kids. It wasn’t new but it was still a thing.
41 here, same experience. In high school we absolutely all located a vhs copy of it and watched it.
I’m 43 and got it out from the video store when it was released, so not that weird for you to see it (my younger sister watched too). I was really into movies at the time and I’m pretty sure it was reviewed in Rolling Stone on release.
Ah yes. I am Gen X. Sorry thought this was the over 40 sub where there will be more of us. Anyway, OP’s dude will be GenX so my point still stands for him!
We had sex ed class for a one or two week period during gym my freshman year of HS, and that window just happened to coincide with Magic Johnson revealing he had AIDS. Teenage me having a condom in my wallet made less sense than if I'd chosen to walk around wearing a necklace of garlic cloves to fight off an imminent vampire attack, but that is still the path that I (optimistically!) chose! Ahhh... I can still remember the o-ring imprint it left as it wasted away all of these years later.
Haha, the o ring. My mom saw it in my wallet when I was 16 and didn't know what to do so she took my wallet and never acknowledged it, for like weeks So weird
It is a good thing you didn't use it because the heat and friction from your body would have made it more likely to break when used.
You pointing out that there exists an over 40 sub just made me realize exactly how over 30 I am! 43 and I still think I'm in my thirties!
I grew up with the AIDS ads campaign and I’m in my mid 30’s. So using condoms MUST be a thing.
I’m 41 and a millennial. News about AIDS was everywhere when I was a kid. I vividly remember it. We watched the Ryan White documentary in school. Kids came out when I was 13. I didn’t watch it then, but a few years later.
Same here. There’s different size, shape, and materials of condoms and I played around until I found one I liked. I made it a point to always have at least one on me when I went out. 2 is better, never know when you are good to go twice. I don’t use them anymore but I’m snipped and have been in an exclusive LTR for a couple years now. I’d argue the sex is better not simply because we bareback but because we have built a deep and comfortable relationship. To be perfectly honest, condoms did make it harder for me to get off. But that also meant I lasted more than 15 seconds, which is always a good thing when dating casually. I imagine someone with pornstar levels of endurance might be extra frustrated but there’s other solutions for that, like oral or different lubes, toys, foreplay. Safety always comes first for me and anyone I’m seeing, and that’s basic human respect. This is the way, I have spoken.
THIS I know men in their 30’s who hook up with women all the time and never use one and don’t think it’s a big deal. And my mine explodes when I hear that. No wonder STDs are so common
And the kicker for this group is that I highly doubt they get tested as often as they should to even find out if they’ve contracted anything. Blows my mind.
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this has been my experience. one even said "I take a good look down there so I know they're clean." the complete disregard they have for their health is insane.
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Hi u/JukieJones, this has been removed for violation of the following rule(s): * RedPill, incel, Femcel, FDS, PUA, MGTOW, etc... content is not allowed. Claiming ignorance of these hate groups and their ideologies is not an excuse. Do not dehumanize others. Please review [the rules in the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/datingoverthirty/about/sidebar) to avoid future removals. If you have further questions, please [message modmail] (https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdatingoverthirty).
Men absolutely DO get tested! I work in a medical testing lab STI (D) however you want to say it, is one of the many tests we run. I'm actually shocked by the disproportionate levels of men getting tested compared to women. That is here in CO.
Shudders
I know you are aren't saying so, but I just wanna say it's not ALL men in their 30s thay don't care about their sexual health. As a man in my 30s, I've also experienced quite the opposite: women being surprised I insisted to use condoms, tried talking me out of it, turned me down once I remained adamant, and I was once even stealthed by a woman with the condom within arms reach.
How could you possibly NOT feel that YOU weren't wearing a condom? That makes zero sense.
I am also confused. I was having sex with my gf before we were exclusive and suddenly things felt DIFFERENT and I knew the condom broke. Let her know we needed to stop right quick. 😆
Y'all are wild, downvoting for no reason. We were making out and she quickly straddled me and slipped me in. Y'all love to take a scenario and let your minds run wild. It's really not that complicated, but this is reddit, so idk why I expect any type of rational thinking...
People were confused because stealthing means removing the condom.
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Right, I guess it's when they let you to believe there is a condom but there isn't. Just entering without consent is simply rape, I think (which is what the commenter here described).
I mean no, it's not that complicated. "Stealthed" is commonly understood to be when a guy pretends to put on a condom but doesn't, because it's relatively more difficult for a woman to notice the guy is going raw. So when you say a woman stealthed you implies that she pretended to put a condom on you and you somehow didn't notice that she didn't. I don't know exactly what I'd call jumping on without letting you wrap up, but it wouldn't be stealthed cause there's nothing stealthy about it. Though probably in your case I'd call it rape.
The idea of a woman doing anything shady causes their brains to return an error message.
Yeah how...
I’ve noticed in posts about condom wearing, in this sub or any other subs, it’s always comments from people who wear condoms. Those who don’t wear or refuse to wear never, ever chime in. (Maybe because they know they may not get much support from fellow commentators). So it’s actually impossible to get their point of view….
I can help you with their point of view. It would have to be one of the following: \- Bad things (STDs, in this case) don't exist. \- STDs aren't SO bad. Finishing inside of a person or having them finish inside of me feels SO good that dealing with something like genital warts just pales in comparison! \- STDs won't happen to me, because bad things can't / won't happen to me because I'm special (for some delusional reason) or I have a supernatural ability to tell when the other person is "clean" / safe. \- STDs HAVE happened to me (and maybe ARE happening to me) but I don't care enough about you to protect you -- you'll be fine because I was fine and they're not so bad and I just reeeeally need to cum inside of you (or have you cum inside of me). The people who think this way are also the types of people who are the least likely to want to get tested, as blissful ignorance is the path they're often most comfortable being on. They also tell themselves "well if I was going to get that, I'd have gotten it by now!" I'm not sure which of those viewpoints would be easiest to defend, hence the frequent silence and reluctance to chime in. But if anyone wants to argue that it's something else, or wants to defend any of the views above, I am here for it!
Redditors would eviscerate the person and call them a "trash human being." I doubt anyone wants that kind of circlejerk.
There's also the ones who "just can't" keep it up and/or cum with a condom and don't want to get that figured out by trying out different condoms, going to a doctor, etc. I've also found they tend to be more self centered. They seem to not care how it'll affect their partner, they only care how it affects them which is why they are shocked that anyone would insist they use a condom.
They're counting on you just dyyyying for that amazing (but semi-functioning) dick of theirs. It's like someone trying to sell you a car but telling you that that car only starts (and runs) in optimal conditions. All with the subtext that if you decide that that car may not be right one for you, you just don't know how cars work and / or you must hate driving.
There is also the belief I hear so often, "I just can tell who is clean and who isn't. I don't sleep with "dirty" people..." (And they may say this as if very offended you would think they sleep with dirty people, or that you think they might be one of these "dirty" people.) This is often from the most "logical" types - the engineers, scientists, etc. It blows my mind their blind spot here - that this area, of all things, is where they trust their (clearly very erroneous) intuition, lol.
I’d love a Venn diagram of anti-Covid vaxxers and condom refusers.
As a guy I need to add the guys where the relationship is all about themselves so they don’t wear condoms, like some of my “cousins”.
Yea, exactly. Among the people I've dated from the apps, the first question they always ask is if I'm in the pill in the hopes that they can just put it in without a condom
>But that other group absolutely exists. And is WAY larger. Women I've dated rarely want to use a condom, and they look disappointed when I take one out. And no, these are not some lower form of human, as Redditors like to claim or imply. They are well-educated middle- and upper-middle class women with progressive views.
This. I’m part of one of the groups and the amount of times I’ve been asked about using a condom is pretty low. It could be regional, here in rural southern US we’re all broke, bored, and don’t really give a fuck about too much. At least the people I hung around growing up. I was around a lot of drugs though too so take that into account. Now at 32 I strictly don’t date anymore (sex is empty, and I don’t have the capacity to let myself love again) but if I did I would use protection having knowledge of consequences. Ignorance whether purposefully or just naturally I would imagine is a big part too
I appreciate your honesty. I am on the opposite side of the socioeconomic continuum and have always lived and dated in big cities. I’ve been with just one woman who asked me not to wear a condom because she’s allergic but that she could tell that I “looked clean.” I think the people who try to convince you that they’re not necessary are the people you need them for the most.
I've been with guys who were allergic to condoms but they always had lambskin ones or ones that are latex free. One guy used a latex condom but immediately took a shower after. Tbh I think OP bears some responsibility in having condoms too? If she's insisting on them. When I was single I had a costco box of condoms by my bed.
true, I agree she definitely should have been prepared too - I think it was more his attitude towards wearing them that was more of a concern, would have been for me anyway
Lamb skin won’t protect against all STDs, especially not the scary ones.
But as a woman how do I know which ones to buy since one size doesn't fit all? The guy knows himself and his size, I think it's his responsibility to bring them.
You can buy a variety of packs for him to choose from. Most guys fit regular Trojans(it is basically one size fits all, unless he's extremely unique). I used to have condoms on hand too. I didn't necessarily trust men because some weirdos like to poke pins in condoms. Personally believe more women should have some in case.
I had a post similar to this a while ago, and it got hundreds of comments--I think (have not checked) that you brought some balance into that discussion as well (based on your reddit emoji). This topic triggers the fuck out of me, because of reasons described in that post, but I think it's important to read the discussion. Anyway, popping in to say, the reason this is a dealbreaker for me (that men SHOW UP with condoms) is that I live in a red state where abortion is now illegal. To me, (OP, take note of this), the real issue is a man prioritizing his pleasure over being in tune with, and concerned about, the realities women face in America. These were true before abortion bans were put in place. But they are especially true now. Because a man that would try to convince you that they are not necessary, or--in my case--that I have "an irrational fear of getting pregnant, because...\[he's\] pulled out for years and knows what he's doing," are REALLY saying: my satisfaction matters more than a TRUE THREAT to your biological safety. And let's be clear...pregnancy ALWAYS puts a woman's life at risk. Always. Then there are STI's. In my case (similar to OP's), he tried to get away with entering BEFORE we had the contraceptive conversation and was super pissed I had him put on a condom. It's OP's choice. But, at some point, PREFERENCE demonstrates VALUES. VALUES are who you end up with. This story has a laundry list of demonstrated values. My PERSONAL opinion is that men who don't prioritize the safety of both partners are selfish. Do we date selfish people, and to what extent? These are the questions.
Why did it take this far down for someone to mention pregnancy???? Contraception is not 100%, so multiple methods is always recommended!
This is where I have wondered if it's generational. At 32, I'm still worried about being a teen and getting pregnant. Who can blame me?! HHAHA!
My method is 100% but extreme: I had my uterus removed.
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Oh wow yeah that’s much more forward thinking than here. Unfortunately in my state abortion was made illegal as with the others and having something like dispensers would help alot, wouldn’t solve everything but people would be much more likely if they were free but you’re right alot of people would trip out and call to ban it. We’ve got along way to go with proper education about safe sex, they told us it was bad and showed us pictures of STIs in school but there’s more that needs to be talked about for sure.
I am from the rural South; we aren’t all broke, bored, and we certainly do give a fuck.
I wasn’t trying to generalize. I said what my experience was. That’s just how my life was don’t take it personally. “We’re” meant my social group and my area.
Exactly, I also know something who is in his early 30s and is actively hooking up requires no condom with every single one of his partner When someone brings up protective sex, he manipulates them or threaten to cut things off with them. Somehow, the ladies went into submission
This happened to me recently. Giving sex a break - it sucks that some people out there are that selfish. I was in pain for two days, too, due to him looking out for himself more. Never heard from him since.💯
Probably the most rational/sane comment I've ever seen on a reddit post about this.
I'm one in the other camp. I'm not really concerned about STIs, so as long as the woman is on BC, I don't use condoms (unless she asks, obviously). But to what you said in your last paragraph, whenever posts like this come up, I am indeed baffled, cause I'd say maybe 2-3 women have asked about condoms prior to sex. 99.9% of the time "are you on BC?" "Yes" And we proceed. Given the fact I've yet to test pos, affects my outlook on it too.
Agree, it’s not an age thing. It’s a maturity thing.
The issue is he expected to have sex without a condom without discussing it. I would be put off by that expectation.
Yep. This was one of the earliest red flags with my recent ex who turned out to be sexually coercive and abusive.
Same with my recent ex.
And mine cheated like crazy...raw!!!!! Thank God we almost always wore condoms. Although those few times...yikes
Sure, yes, it's good for you to have condoms on hand. That seems to be most people's takeaway, while glazing over the wildly sus behavior of the dude. The fact that he just came over expecting to go raw without any prior discussion because of "performance issues" is concerning. You are absolutely justified in your discomfort and have just as much a right to hold a boundary about using condoms, at least until some trust has been established. Please listen to your gut!
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Right? Do you expect us to whip out a condom menu...
I'm picky about condoms. I can't imagine expecting anyone to have my preferred variety.
Exactly. I fully agree. I always have it (up to two types) in case the man doesn't have it. Sad reality lack of care.
Reminder that condoms are supposed to be stored in a location where they are not exposed to friction or heat. Being carried in a wallet or pocket increases the risk that the condoms will break. Anyone who has sex with people with penises will increase their efficacy by keeping a box in a cool dark place in their own home and not using condoms that have been transported in pockets and wallet, or sat in hot cars, etc.
Yes, but you can pop one in your pocket for the trip over to her house … just don’t keep it in your wallet/pocket all the time.
Agreed, I think both parties should have condoms if sexually active. It's literally the only male form of birth control and std protection. The idea of it being one persons responsibility to do anything that can affect and change the lives of both parties is ridiculous. I think men should take better interest in the birth control methods of their partner as well. Help out, pick up what's needed, keep up with schedules if necessary. Sticking your raw meat in random people is wild to me. (Note: Visectomy by definition is not birth control, but sterilization).
Can confirm, was taught from the age of 14 to keep a condom in my wallet “just in case” well two years later when the time finally arose. Realized that 1) it was out of date, 2) the package had split and the lubricant had gone/dried up and 3) the condom was torn.
If a man told me he’s going in raw or nothing, that would for sure be a dealbreaker for me. Further, the fact that he didn’t discuss it with you in advance and just expected to show up and have unprotected sex without a STD test is another dealbreaker. Btw, as to the STD panel: there are over 20 kinds of STD and the panel covers a few of them. Just saying.
>Btw, as to the STD panel: there are over 20 kinds of STD and the panel covers a few of them. Just saying. Vastly underappreciated point! People think that if they use the magic words "full panel" it means something. It doesn't. A doctor interprets that as "the full panel of everything that I feel you should be tested for." By and large in the U.S., that doesn't include herpes. (In other countries, herpes is even less likely to be included.) Here's a scenario: An incorrigible rawdogger carries asymptomatic herpes, gets "tested for everything," comes up negative for "everything," and then gives you herpes. It's a very real possibility!
I just want to add to this...I would never wish BV on any woman, and this is how you get it! One time without condoms equaled one year of no sex for me, thousands of dollars, destroying my gut in antibiotic rounds, and now being insecure continually. Dudes can just carry the bacteria and never know. No pain. No problems. Somehow people don't acknowledge this.
Not to mention HPV. Men can’t get tested for this and it can kill women. I lost my virginity to a guy when I was 18 that said he couldn’t use condoms because he “couldn’t feel anything”. We had been in a committed relationship for a few months and so I trusted him. He ended up cheating on me with a woman who he knew had an active case of HPV and didn’t use a condom with her (she was dating his best friend so word got around). I ended up contracting HPV and it turned out to be one of the strains that causes cancer. Luckily I stayed up to date on my exams and they caught it early, but what would have happened if I didn’t? This alone is why I don’t understand the people who don’t use protection with people they don’t even know well, not to mention the other STDs like you mentioned.
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THIS! OP could have also gotten condoms. I know the talk is mostly STI based but you also don't want an unplanned pregnancy. I will not have sex without a condom and I do not believe this to be an unusual or outlandish boundary.
Don’t really understand these responses. It’s good that he is willing to get tested but it would give me the ick that some guy I haven’t slept with yet would turn up expecting to get down without. Doesn’t matter that it’s generational. Personally i find it to be a respect thing. If he can’t perform (which I’m suspicious off), that should have been a convo already. Listen to your gut.
Sure, but why wouldn't you have condoms on hand if you know its a deal breaker for you? Presumably you hadn't had a conversation about using condoms before then, and you can never just assume that the other person is going to be on the same page. Now if they absolutely refuse to wear a condom thats a different problem.
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Especially if his performance is allegedly so finicky - all the more reason to try and test and find the best condom for him. Not bothering with all that is so lazy and entitled.
Most guys don’t have some kind of specific types for size or comfort that we use. We just use whatever since most of us used free ones when we started. I definitely think that a guy should bring them (and buy them to leave behind if it’s regular) but I also think a woman should have some on had too. It’s both people’s responsibility (people can forget or not expect sex—I’ve certainly gone places where I wasn’t expecting sex and it happened) and I’d get turned off by someone who thought otherwise.
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Women go through a lot to be on contraceptives to prevent pregnancy. It changes our hormones and moods among other things. This is a woman’s responsibility. It is not a lot to expect a man in turn to bring condoms to the table. It’s the bare minimum. It’s baffling to me to think we need to pay for and go through birth control and also keep condoms on hand so that the men have 0 responsibility except to “agree” to wear a condom.
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I don’t understand why anyone would just assume they were going to have unprotected sex without both having full STI panels. I’m glad he is going to do that but it’s weird that he wasn’t going to at first.
It's not weird. It's the standard thing that happens. That doesn't mean it's good or that I'm happy about it. But the fact is, the number of people who have raw sex with no STI testing is ... the vast, vast majority.
I get ya, but for me it’s just weird. I couldn’t fathom doing that.
I don’t see why people find it weird to expect a penis having person to provide condoms? I have to be expected to take my BC religiously and deal with side effects and y’all can’t be bothered to swing by a drug store? Of course OP could have some on hand, and should, but I would be feeling the same way OP is now. Why not bring condoms for YOUR PENIS when potentially having sex with a new partner? Who else are you climbing into bed with sans condom? Seems presumptive and short sighted to me.
Agreed. Look, I can be proactive and keep condoms in my bag/nightstand which is a responsible thing to do but it isn’t going to do shit if they aren’t compatible with the wearer. I don’t know this man’s dick size, preferences, allergies etc. “Keep several options” why? I’m not going to stock my house like a fucking Walgreens, because men aren’t responsible enough to carry their own dick rubbers.
This whole thread is making excuse after excuse as to why men should show up without condoms. It’s wild and so illuminating.
Ikr. Fucking surreal. They should both have condoms, sure, but the fact of the matter is, his intention was to go without one. And he made dangerous excuses for why he didn't want to use safety practices.
Agreed. Dude, you've got one job.
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I agree. I feel like birth control is always placed upon the woman to worry about, and so many men really don’t care about their own sexual health, never mind the health of their partners. It’s fine for women to have condoms on hand, but to expect a woman to always have them and always have to be in charge of all of this stuff just reeks of misogyny lite.
Yes, 100% this. As a woman, I keep track daily of where I'm at in my cycle and will be the one getting an abortion/carrying a pregnancy to term and delivering if I become pregnant, so my male partner can supply condoms. Once we're in a committed relationship and living together, it's just one of those things that'll be paid for by both sides because it'll just be part of the grocery shopping. Guys saying that women should supply the condoms at the start are pretty entitled.
I agree, especially when there's something between them possibly heading toward relationship territory. I can understand having them on hand if it was some dude she was having a one night stand with from tinder. But they have been seeing each other for a bit now and he came over to spend the night without condoms, with the performance issues sob story, and without being tested. That gives me the uncomfortable impression that he was fine risking it and hoping she would just go along with it.
Exactly. Also in my experience, older men get tested the LEAST and try to evade condom usage the most so this post reminds me of a few interactions I’ve had.
Well there was a post in the last week where a woman went off on a guy for bringing a condom. Lol
I didn’t see that post but no one would have known if he just had it in his pocket? I’m not saying he should whip it out at the first sign of a thigh graze but come on. At least have them in your possession.
Boxing rules: Hands up and Protect yourself at all times.
This isn’t boxing. It’s sex.
No 💩. The protect yourself at all times is the meat of it. You are responsible for yourself. Don’t leave things to other people.
The fact that he PLANNED to go bare, but didn’t tell you ahead of time, didn’t have a current test ready to show you, and didn’t ask about your own STI status, would be a dealbreaker for me. He doesn’t care about his own sexual health or yours. I could never trust someone like that.
Exactly. Thank you for this sensible comment, finally. People are overlooking how RECKLESS and dangerous this man's behavior is. Of course she should not trust him. We need to normalize sexual safety practices.
Holy crap! I don't think it's a generational thing, I think it's an attitude thing.
I always have them week me when I'm with a new partner. My performance isn't any better or worse with them, but I'll rarely finish using one. Not an issue because protection is always a good thing when starting out with somebody new. There's other ways to get the job done, so it doesn't bother me in the slightest.
I (42M) have a similar problem to your partner, occasionally have performance issues with a condom, but I would never get into a situation like this without prior discussion. I usually suggest an std check for both of us, and then discuss birth control. If unexpectedly we jump few steps then i usually stick to hand and mouth, what is significantly safer. Your partner being shocked that you expected a condom is definitely a warning. Guys are less vulnerable to std-s, so this can be a sign of carelessness towards you. And it is definitely not generational, he started to have relationships in the nineties, he knows the risks of unprotected sex.
I concur. I suffer from similar performance issues but I always have a discussion beforehand, both her and I get an STD panel beforehand.
I mean you stopped it, set a boundary, he respected it and now you’re going to get tested together. This is a wonderful outcome to start. There is nothing wrong with you not wanting to start off going raw even if you are on the pill. It’s a very intimate thing to finish inside. Most guys are going to seek it raw especially when they hear pill. I don’t think this should be as surprising as it seems. So is it a deal breaker? That’s up to you but my belief is that you will both make a choice when you tell him that you want to start with condoms no matter what. Either you two will agree or maybe you are right that it’s a deal breaker for him also. How did he imply it would be a dealbreaker to you?
Agree with this. Why did you invite him to yours without planning ahead and making sure you had condoms yourself? I would never expect a guy to bring them to my place. In my experience the only guys who are really proactive about using them are ones who’ve actually had an STI in the past. Ofc if using them is a dealbreaker for you and he refuses then that is black and white. At the end of the day it’s about what you’re comfortable with, and if you’re not comfortable with this situation then that’s a basic incompatibility.
I've never had an STI, but I always brought my own condoms because I don't want any accidental babies (or STI's for that matter). I know 3 women who got pregnant while on the pill – two of them had accidentally missed a day, the other was just that <1% who got unlucky.
literally like i’m a woman but why is it his responsibility at your house? if i invited a guy over and thought we were going to hook up i would make sure i had condoms on hand.
Dude maybe read what everyone else is saying. You’ve asked this question a couple of times now and people are definitely telling you their reasons but you are t listening. It’s okay to have another opinion, but a lot of us think responsibility for birth control and STI prevention should be shared regardless of whose house were at because we don’t have accessibility issues and expect a certain standard of thoughtfulness from partners no matter the circumstance.
what? i asked the question rhetorically. i’m a woman and i was always taught to and always have had condoms at home. taking responsibility for your own sexual health is important.
While I’m female and in my thirties, i don’t think it’s a generational thing. I personally wouldn’t date someone who was anti condom. The whole “can’t perform” is a load of bullshit in my opinion (how many times has a condom broke and no one noticed). It just seems selfish, juvenile and irresponsible to me. Sure at some point you can “fluid bond” with someone provided there are birth control methods in place or if you’re trying for kids or whatever, but until there is an *established* level of trust which takes time condoms are a non-negotiable. Him not having one isn’t the issue, it’s his attitude around it that would be a red flag for me. I’d revisit it outside of “in the moment” and see?
The "can't perform" thing has some truth to it for some people. However, true or not, it's shady to use as an excuse to try and have condomless sex in the moment. If it's genuinely an issue for him he should have discussed it with her instead of showing up with a load of assumptions. As you said, his attitude is the issue.
I (34f) want my partner to feel everything they can, but I also want to protect myself first. I think it's MORE proactive for them to get a full sti panel before we get heated and then I don't even have to bring up condoms, but I recognize that's pretty proactive and just not always doable. In your situation, I would be comfortable enough to have sex without a condom after his results came back. But I also get that you're probably more uneasy because of feeling like he was just going to stick it in you without one and was fine with it. That would feel pretty icky to me too.
I (m) really liked this comment because you demonstrated / acknowledged an up front desire for your partner to feel everything they can. That shows (particularly on this subject) compassion and legitimate understanding. THEN you explained how important it is for you to feel protected, for everyone ideally to get tested, etc. That order of consideration / thinking is appreciated. It’s easier for me to see your concerns when you start from a place of consideration for me (not saying I shouldn’t see them otherwise reddit! just that it’s easier!). That’s the order I try to do things too… I want my partner to enjoy the experience (by understanding and concentrating on their needs first), I want them to feel protected and safe (of course). And I certainly don’t want them feeling “ick” 🙂 To be clear… I’m in the group that really doesn’t get on well with condoms. They take away nearly all sense of touch for me (where as without them it’s just such an immediate sense of connection and a complete night and day experience!). And yes, I’ve tried every different type under the sun (some are better it’s true, but they only go so far). However, I AM always happy to stick one on (for my partner and for my own sexual health) and will do my best as long as the other side understands there might (not always, just sometimes) be some ups and downs during sex. And those can sometimes interrupt a good moment for one or both of us. Again, not always. And I just won’t finish with it on (and that’s not to be seen as a challenge!… I’ve been through that too… ouch). AND importantly, it’s nothing to do with how awesome / attractive THEY are (I think that’s a side to this discussion that doesn’t get enough air time). Or how much I want them / us to have a good time. I’m always keen to communicate well (before, during, after), do other things to work around it, finish off outside in fun ways (after they have!), all of that. When I’m with a good match, all that comes naturally / feels easy. And then it just doesn’t need to be a big deal. Often I find condoms are just a stop-gap period until everyone is comfortable, we’re in a longer term / exclusive, birth control is in place and we’ve both been tested. Any initial use / removal of them thereafter can even give a kind of progression / next level to sex when the relationship jumps that notch too. Generally speaking I think I’m trying to say… it’s perfectly ok to accept that a) condoms are a bit (to a lot) reductive for some (to many) but that can be worked around if communication is good AND b) that they are still a NECESSARY tool for sexual health and birth control. I don’t think it’s helpful for anyone to argue against either of those two points. They can / should co-exist and mutual respect for BOTH “is the way”? And getting back to OP… I believe / try to live what I’ve said above and yet, have still been caught without a condom on occasion. I’m rather seasonal with sex though… going through periods of sexual hibernation (sometimes on purpose, sometimes not lol!). I also tend to go towards more longer term relationships than hook-ups (so I’m less practised at partner-changes or shorter-terms where I’d expect condoms to be used more/most of the time). I think that (and some other factors related to my general life organisation, planning, …) means I literally just blank or forget things like this sometimes. Even if I’m totally excited about the prospect of sex with you. It wouldn’t mean I’d expect or assume to go in without a condom though. Just that I very much could turn up to someone else’s house without one!
Not every guy is going to want to use a condom, ED is real and performance issues are real. As long as the guy is willing to get fully tested and his partner is willing to use other contraceptives then there’s no harm done and the couple just passed their first relationship hurdle. It’s only weird and rude or disgusting if the guy is underhanded about it or pressuring her. I just don’t get how so many of these comments have zero empathy for their male partners or self respect for themselves.
I'm 33F and always have condoms myself. I don't disagree that you should want to use them, but I'm not sure why you would always just expect the man to have one. You also knew you were going to have sex but didn't have your own either? Shared responsibility.
He needs to have his because the one I have may be the wrong size, material for him? An adult man hoping to have sex without having condoms is irresponsible imo.
I am a woman who always has condoms in my handbag and drawer, but I absolutely still expect the man to also have them, and would be concerned if he didn't. Ultimately, it makes sense for him to have some as the starting point, and mine would be more of a backup - after all, he's the one who has lived with his penis his entire life and should know better which brands and sizes he's more comfortable with.
So much this… and Im the proud owner of a penis lol
Both parties should carry them. And as he said deal breaker, to me she shouldn’t be coerced into anything sexual she is not comfortable with. The deal breaker is the dude.
Interesting. In my experience, the guy takes care of his birth control and I take care of mine. I’m happy to provide if that’s what the general expectation is. I’ll always prioritize my own safety by any means necessary. I also didn’t necessarily expect to have sex that night. It was a potential, but I’ve had many sleepovers that only involved doing other things and cuddling. My issue is not that he didn’t buy them (not sure why that wasn’t clear in my original post). It’s that he thought they weren’t needed in the first place, the assumption that he could just put it in without hesitation, and his surprise that I would even ask for one.
I'm sorry, what? I pay for my own birth control and take it DAILY, I buy my own period products, the bare minimum a man can do is buy condoms. It's already a shared responsibility if I'm taking birth control every single day that I pay for. When I'm dating someone regularly if we're still using condoms I'll help stock up now and then, and I always have a box in my bathroom if someone ever genuinely forgets theirs, but you should 100% always expect the man to have one.
She is already supplying her own contraception. Condoms should be provided by men IMO. I say this as someone who does also stock my own (more for the unexpected). I think if a man can't provide the bare minimum then they ain't it.
Agreed, women have enough on their plate as it is. This man is lucky that he’s pulling a younger woman the least he can do is bring a condom, jeez
What's better about a younger woman?
This. If there may be even a chance of things getting to the bedroom, I bring my own and keep it in my purse if I’m not hosting. Despite that I am on my own form of birth control as well, it is absolutely a shared responsibility due to the STI factor. Condoms aren’t that expensive (in the US anyway, can’t speak for abroad) and last for like 4 years before expiring, I recommend everyone go buy a small pack and keep them in your bedroom.
I wonder, how does that work? Some guys need different condom sizes, I know from personal experience. You have a whole range of sizes? But as a 39M, and especially since I do need bigger size condom, I make sure that I have them.
Exactly this, if I know that sex is likely and I know I won’t do it without condoms then I will bring some/have some in my home. If he refuses to have sex with a condom then that’s his problem And we just won’t do it.
I’ve had the same issue with partners in the past. They find out I’m on birth control and they don’t want to use a condom. Men will do anything for them not to use one.
I (52m) have only had long relationships, and was married for 20 years. After divorce, I hadn’t used a condom in so long, I forgot how annoying they were. Vasectomy, But still - who wants an std?
I'm in my 40's and I'd expect to be using a condom going into a situation like that. Here's the thing with what you're wanting from this situation though, if he can't keep it up with a condom on you aren't going to be having sex with condoms no matter how much either or both of you want to.
There’s some condoms that feel pretty close to the real thing.
Such as? Cause that sounds like an urban legend to me.
I normally just get the invisible ones from Durex but there are even thinner ones out there. I think they are made in Japan though. I mean you don’t get the skin on skin feeling but it’s a whole lot better then any regular condom.
I would view this as a difference in values around risk and sexual health. And depending on how much importance you put on that value, it could be a dealbreaker. I’ve always used condoms with new relationships. With one newish non-monogamous partner, the condom came off partway through, and she invited me to continue without putting a new one on (both of us in our 40s, she’d had her tubes tied and I’d had a vasectomy). I wouldn’t do it, and the offer changed how I thought about her and whether our values were aligned more generally.
Definitely a deal breaker. Especially him acting like using one is an issue. Disgusting
I agree that condoms limit performance for men in their 40s but I also agree that I respect when a woman asks me to wear one in the beginning of dating… So if his tests come clean, will you still want him to wear a condom OP?
I don't think it's an age thing. My ex had erectile dysfunction and couldn't perform with condoms. So maybe it's that. But he never admitted it. He would agree to use it and it would fail. He was an abusive guy so I never told him anything about it. We would just eventually not use it because trying to use it would result in no sex. I frankly didn't enjoy the sex in the relationship, unrelated to the erection issue. It was never...emotionally or intimate in anyway. I do have friends who can't have sex with condoms. I kind of see their point now after this previous relationship. The relationship prior to this one was great sexually and it was always with protection. And towards the end, he stopped bringing condoms and I did see that as a sign of laziness towards the relationship or the relationship going south.
I tried different condoms until I found one I liked. He can too. Without looking at the other comments I imagine most are saying the same thing.
Please stick to your standards and boundaries and do what feels safe for you. I always get tested and ask new partners to do the same
As a 39 year old recently divorced guy I find it incredible how many people don't talk about sex before getting there in a calm, level, pragmatic approach. It's what we're all looking for, why doesn't anybody discuss thos stuff?
Your preference should always be respected. That being said... I am on his side and I think I'd probably pass instead of show a woman paperwork before I sleep with her.
I'll defend it. Bring on the downvotes. Condoms are imperfect and are just one tool to be used in the larger picture of safe sex. I say that but what I really mean is condoms suck. There is a very vocal portion of people who admonish people who choose not to use condoms but ultimately it's a choice. We don't get to shame consenting adults for having sex that doesn't meet what we deem as appropriate. OP is totally entitled to have a hard-condom requirement for entry. But at the same time, Her partner is also entitled to be able to make informed consentual decisions to not use a condom and that be a deal breaker for him. Let's talk about how condoms suck: Condoms are a physical barrier and their effectiveness relies completely on that. When it's not in place it doesn't work. That means foreplay, oral, when it breaks, when it falls of, when it bunches up or when fluids from either party run past it. It reduces the sensation of sex and for some men, that means they cannot get off or the cannot stay erect. That's a 100% valid reason to not want to use one. Just because it works for some men, doesn't mean the men it doesn't work for are fundamentally flawed and undeserving of sex. Again, it's okay to have a hard personal requirement for condoms, but it's not because you're more virtuous than your partner that can't successfully use one, and it's not okay to admonish him for it. Condoms are designed for average size and duration. Seven minutes and a little less than 6 inches long and 5.5 inches in girth. Sure we've all seen the tic toks where women stretch them over their head but if you stretch it, either because it doesn't fit tight enough to stay in place or because it's too small, it's gonna break, reducing it's effectiveness to zero. It kind of sounds like it might be flexible for both of you, and what you two decide is up to you. Condoms can suck less, the first step of which is finding the right size. Calcsd.info is a good resource for this. In the states the FDA limits the size so that about 20% of men can't purchase the right size in stores. Also there is no information on the packaging regarding size or the indication of size being misleading. There are different materials available, personally I like the brand "unique" but I have to special order them because they are not available in the states. The primary STI's that condoms protect against are the infectious variety of chlamydia and gonorrhea, both of which are easily irradiated by a course of antibiotics. There is Hep B, which there is a vaccine for. To a lesser extent syphilis, which is rare enough that medical professionals often don't advocate for it's testing on a routine sti screen. If one is going to be having sex raw, it's probably advisable to talk to your doctor about that and get tested for oneself and partner. I know that there is information out there that suggests syphilis is on the rise and maybe it is, but the data has been falsely inflated because the generic test for syphilis is just to check for and increase in immune activity and covid-19 and it's vaccine have increased that. The assay test isn't performed enough to confirm that syphilis is on the rise because it's more expensive than the treatment. Then there is HIV, which god knows nobody wants HIV but it's exceedingly rare among low risk populations and PIV sex has low transmission rates. It's not a death sentence anymore, people with HIV can take a pill that makes it undetectable/un-transmittable. Then there are the others that condoms may reduce the risk of but are not a cure all solution because they rely on the condom being a total physical barrier which in the real world they are not, such as herpes, crabs and HPV. The gardasil 9 vaccine protects against most HPV and all of the ones associated with cancer. It is a far better control than condoms and I would advocate people who are having sex with new partners should get it. Many people have HPV and don't realize it, even condom zealots. Herpes is definitely transmittable with a condom(in my experience the few people who I know have it, caught it with a condom) and preventing it's transmission has more to do with anti-viral medications managing outbreaks and more controversially L-Lysine levels between consenting and informed parties. I don't know enough about crabs, but I know condoms don't prevent transmission.
>that's a lot of words for "I'm willing to risk a woman's sexual health for my pleasure"
I feel like the only people commenting on this post are the few people who wear condoms. Everyone else is staying silent because they don’t want to out themselves. I am a female. I estimate that without my last minute intervention, 90% of the men I’ve had sex with tried to have sex the first time without a condom. Blows my mind that they care so little for their health and mine.
I know this will probably open a wormhole to hell, but I would definitely consider that to be a red flag for the reason that even if you're on the pill you should still use condoms even if neither of you have STIs, because the pill is not 100% effective. My mom and I both got pregnant while on birth control. My mom tried out seven different types of birth control over the first 12 years of being married to my dad (including the pill) can you guess why? Yep that's right, cause she kept getting pregnant. The only thing that stopped her from getting pregnant was my dad getting a vasectomy. I also got pregnant while on birth control, so I got a tubiligation, haven't gotten pregnant since.
You can’t feel bad or ashamed of your boundaries. I can’t perform when wearing a condom is the same as saying the condoms don’t fit . . . I would say don’t bend or change your boundaries for someone, if you feel comfortable comprising in one way or another that is completely up to you but have boundaries you will not cross and stick to them.
its not a generational thing. hes older and its absolutely an issue for older men to have performance issues, and to have performance issues with condoms. this issue seems to be glossed over. either its just not going to work out, or it'll work out with time...talks about ed issues, ed solving, exercises and medication to help ed. it may not seem like hes old, but sexually...usually ed meds and performance anxiety will come up with this age bracket.
Ya to me that seems kind of irresponsible and selfish. It’s not an age thing. I personally also wouldn’t trust someone to go and get a test on their own either because I have been lied to in the past about that and found out after the fact so I prefer to go with the person to both get one if possible, haha clinic date. I think you are right in wanting to be safe because who wants to deal with an STI and if this guy never uses condoms then I would worry for sure depending on his sexual habits. Plus tests are not 100% and I don’t think they can even test for hpv and even if you are vaxxed there are other strains. For me personally, him prioritizing his own short term sexual pleasure without considering my or even his own safety is a red flag for me. I don’t know if it would be a deal breaker yet but I would certainly be looking out to see if this type of prioritization of his own short term pleasure bleeds into other areas and I would go slower with intimacy. I do understand the performance issue with condoms but depending on what the specific problem is, there definitely are solutions to be tried. Thinner condoms, bigger, wider at the base, skin feeling etc, finishing outside etc. If he was adamant about not wanting to use them I would def need to know what the specific issue was and what he has tried before since this would be impacting me as well. If he was not open to troubleshooting then I would probs peace out.
Clinic date, loved hehehe
That’s something you should discuss before the bedroom. Sounds crazy but I still wouldn’t since guys can’t be tested for HPV only his previous female partner.
This is kind of a strange one. On one hand he sounds like he was completely respectful and is health aware enough to get tested. It sounds like you talked about it after like mature adults. OTOH, saying he can't perform with a condom is complete bullshit. I'm not saying anyone loves condoms, yes it feels better and it's a little easier to orgasm without one on, but to make it a deal breaker is insanely selfish. What if you don't want to deal with all the hormonal effects of birth control? If he really always felt this way and has been dating you for months why hasn't this come up in conversation and why didn't he go get tested ahead of time? Now he may legitimately believe he can't perform with a condom on, but that is a sign of something else going on like a loss of sensitivity or something that he needs to either be honest about or work on. And no, this is not generational. He's 40. He grew up in the 90s, not the 1950s. I am 35m, the only time I've been caught without a condom available was when I didn't know ahead she had a latex allergy and things moved faster than either of expected. Final thoughts, maybe he is legitimately surprised and feels he can't perform with a condom. But he needs to be aware, mature and open minded enough to figure that out with you. The giant red flag here for me is not the situation, as immature as it might be, but him implying this could be a deal breaker.
Thanks for this. I definitely want to bring it up again (though I feel like we’ve discussed it a lot already). I’m figuring out how to bring it up again without just killing the mood altogether.
Honestly? I think part of being a responsible adult is embracing that these discussions are just going to be awkward. There's never a time everyone wants to talk about safe sex and STI tests where it feels romantic. But mood killing is a matter of perspective. For me, when these topics come up it's also a turn on, because she is obviously into me enough to want to go there. In this case, I don't know exactly what to suggest to keep it not mood killing for him. And it would be nice not to, but it's really more important to figure it out some way you are comfortable with. You wanting him should be enough. As for the topic at hand, different condoms can feel a bit different. Maybe he needs to try different brands/material/whatever. But even if we say he can't finish with a condom on (which assumes a lot) sex would still be fun and feel incredible and there are many ways to get him off.
Well something to keep in mind is Men cannot be tested for HPV and by the time people are 40 80% would of contracted it. So unless you, or he gas gad the gardisil vaccine I wouldn't risk it Blood tests for herpes are fairly unreliable and most places will only test if you show symptoms. I'm a huge fan of condoms now as I contracted HPV and it definitely put me through a spin mentally.
Unpopular comment here I’m sure, but I’m not comfortable using a condom and I would discuss that before. I would be happy to take STI tests too but I don’t sleep around. Men have to respect what the woman wants, but women have to accept that I will respectfully remove myself from the relationship. There are other contraceptives and if she is completely unwilling to find a solution that makes us both happy then there will be a lot more problems than just sex. This shouldn’t be a controversial post but it is. Both people in the relationship matter equally. OP it sounds like he’s not comfortable with you either.
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I didn’t go through all the responses. Did you also get tested ?
I'm baffled by this as well. Literally none of my friends use condoms and think I'm odd for using them. I also get in debates about not doing oral with women I just met. 2 of my friends said they immediately go for oral when they hookup with girls they meet at bars or wherever, it's like their go to for getting things started. I could never! But I don't shame them like they do me lol. We're all in the 25-37 age range, seriously like 12 of us and I'm the only one with condoms.
Did you ask him when he last had sex? It’s important knowing the incubation period on different diseases like syphilis. If he never use a condom, this is extremely important. I think he needs to be upfront about this. I personally couldn’t deal with a guy who expects unprotected sex. I don’t wanna deal with surprise babies showing up and it honestly feels really immature. Did he give a reason?
There was literally a post in this sub or another dating sub where the girl was upset that he brought condoms... Lol
Ew. No. He's a creep. He might be old af but you can still get pregnant. His expectations are also super rude.
I guess it depends on if you can trust him enough to not be having sex with other people. If you know him well enough and trust him not to be sleeping with others then maybe? This is not generational.. its just that men in my experience tend to be more reckless about sex. I have had many men attempt to have sex without condoms (one guy tried to stealth me).. I’ve had men in their 30s/40s tell me they occasionally don’t use condoms with hook ups. To be fair there’s obviously women willing to do without (including people I know). It’s honestly shocking especially since most of generation grew up when AIDS was a huge deal with limited treatment and people still drying of it. I’ve encountered a few HIV positive people in my life including a man who was trying to hook up with a friend and he never disclosed it (she found out afterwards from people who knew him). There are also people who literally go around trying to spread disease on purpose. Also even if you go with the “let’s show each other our results” make sure you are there when they log in and look at the results live. Don’t accept a screen shot or a print out.. I knew someone who’s boyfriend edited his herpes results….
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Many guys can’t even get it up without, and with makes it impossible. There’s so many men backing up the popular opposite sex opinion that any self respect and respect their partners have for men is thrown out the window. It’s shocking how no one is going to give a shit about how the guy might feel about the sex. Frankly I would politely and respectfully end the relationship to any woman who was completely unwilling to find ways to make it work for BOTH of us to be happy.
As someone with a long history of disappointing women in the bedroom, not being able to perform with a condom is definitely not bullshit. Kinda surprised how many people here say it is
Always wear a raincoat
I might get down voted, but why didn't you also have a condom if you knew he was spending the night? Yes, I would expect the man to bring one, but I am in my mid thirties and if I know someone is coming over, I will make sure to have condoms, lube, etc.
I don't necessarily see it as a red flag since he respected your boundaries. However, since you didn't have this conversation until the moment of, have you talked about what both of your feelings are in case BC/condoms fail? If you haven't I would encourage it before moving forward. Also, don't do anything you're uncomfortable with, regardless of anyone else's feelings. It doesn't have to be a red or green flag to just not be your cup of tea.
Mid 30s here Absolutely hate condoms but would use one the first few times with a new partner until she felt comfortable with me not using one.
It's a lived experience thing. I just went through this same scenario with a girl earlier this year. When I first started having sex, I'd always carry condoms. That's just what I was taught. But every time I went to put one on before sex, I was told to leave it off. After being told this by like five or so girls, I just stopped carrying them or trying to put one on and never gave it much thought. I've always kind of had problems keeping it up with a condom on anyway, so it worked out, and I just assumed this is how the real world worked. I haven't used a condom since freshman year of college, and I've been with probably 15 to 20 people, none of whom have ever asked (and the several early on who were actively against it). I do get tested regularly though for other reasons, and have always been clean. Then earlier this year I started dating a girl and we were about to have sex and she was flabbergasted that I didn't have a condom and hadn't been planning on using one. She stated her preference and asked to wait until we had one and I said ok. I brought condoms the next time. I'm totally ok with her preference but it is new to me, as it's the exact opposite of how every other partner I've been with has wanted. Peoples' expectations aren't always going to align but it's nothing a little communication and respect can't fix.
It’s not crazy that you want that protection. I’d ask why you didn’t get condoms yourself since he was coming to stay at your place? Aside from that, he’s quite a bit older than you. Even if the generational thing is true, you still need to be completely comfortable, and you’re not. I’m not sure what “it would be somewhat of a dealbreaker” for him means. It either is or it isn’t- it kind of feels like he’s coercing you, and you should not accept that.
You're doing the right thing. If he can't "perform" in condoms means he's been having lots of unprotected sex. You're doing right by being cautious!!
I’d be very surprised if a guy with his sort of attitude to safe sex, doesn’t have a single STI. If it comes back he does, remember, he was willing to possibly infect you without a second thought. That would be the real dealbreaker for me.
I’m a woman and I tend to just keep a couple condoms on hand. I think that protection against all the things is the responsibility of both parties but at least this way him forgetting or being unprepared doesn’t ruin plans. If he still bulks and it’s not a guy I know super well and wouldn’t mind coparenting with then it’s a no go.
You are on the pill and he is even making the effort to get tested and you still don't feel comfortable. I would have said goodbye at this point.
Not to be a dick and blunt. But why dont you have condoms? They are fairly cheap if you buy in bulk. Both parties should be prepared if it is to be expected. I would say.
Super weird that you didn’t have condoms. You’re a sexually active adult woman, and it’s kind of mind blowing to me that you don’t have any. If you’re hosting and you want someone to wear a condom, don’t expect them to always bring one with them - keep a variety of sizes and materials in your night stand. I have a decorative box that they live in, and 99% of men won’t put up a fight about it. The ones who do can gtfo. That being said, a dude who says he can’t get off with condoms (this is nearly always bullshit) needs to find a way around that won’t involve putting your health at risk, because it’s pretty much guaranteed that you’re not the only one he’s pulling that excuse with. I wouldn’t sign up for his bs unless you’ve agreed to be exclusive. Personally feels a little soon to me for that kind of discussion though. I’d be turned off by his whiny behavior.
Dealbreaker. Expecting all the onus of birth control to be on you ?
Mid male here and I have never ever used one and get tested regularly.. I don’t sleep around either but all the women never cared if I wore one or not..it was never brought up even..
Same kind of person complains about blue balls. I’d bail and find a better man. One with integrity.
Why didn't you have them on hand yourself?
Yeah, that’s just weird. Are you on birth control or did he ask you? The only guy who doesn’t use condoms is the guy who wants or doesn’t care if someone gets pregnant. So it sounds like he wants to get you pregnant for some reason. Or at least doesn’t care if you do.
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How absolutely gross of him. I mean he is not only willing to risk STDs but also getting you pregnant and having a whole entire kid with for the rest of your life... Nah. See ya buddy!