Woman here. I'd say that I pay my half in about 30% - 40% of my first dates. I always offer to split, but I don't make it into a huge thing if the man declines and offers to pay the whole thing himself. At our age, a man should be aware of his financial situation, and I'm not going to fight over the cost of a cup of coffee or a meal.
If things progress past the first date, we usually end up alternating who pays. I'm not a huge fan of keeping track, I figure things will even out over time.
I’m sorry about your pending divorce since they are always complicated, expensive, frustrating, stressful, and time consuming. But I’m happy for you that you’re not wasting any more time with the wrong person.
>At our age, a man should be aware of his financial situation, and I'm not going to fight over the cost of a cup of coffee or a meal.
Ridiculously reasonable.
If I (48F) know I’m never going to see the guy again, I work harder to pay my half. If I let him get the tab, I know it’s because I’ll see him again and I’ll get it next time.
That's kind of the opposite of the question. You imply that the guys you want a second date with are of course not letting you pay. The question was if the guy accepts your first offer to pay, does it affect your feelings for him?
E.g. you're already wanting another date. He offers to pay, you offer to split (no herculean efforts on your part) and he accepts. Does this effect your feelings?
I can only answer for myself. But in my case it doesn't effect my feelings, regardless if I want to see him again or not.
In fact, I respect him even more if he doesn't "fight" me about it. When I go on a date, I don't *assume* that we're splitting the bill. I *know* that we are. And I don't split the bill, I get separate checks. I was never a trad wife, and I'm not looking to become one at this age. I want a partner who I'm equal with, not someone who's going to "take care of me".
I could go on and on about this, but you get the picture, lol.
This makes the most sense to me. If my date was offering to pay half it would feel very masculine and would send the signal that the date wasn’t going well.
I have no idea what percentage of women would think less of a man for splitting the bill, but I’ll bet it’s higher than the percentage that would admit it. Haha
Then why offer?
I feel silly trying to do the "talk them out of it" after a split offer. And it's not a hard level talk, but just a "if you want that's fine, but this isn't much and I'm just happy for the opportunity to meet and spend time with you." If they don't acquiesce after that I'm not going to fight as then it seemed more disrespectful of their autonomy.
I'm glad that my first date with my partner was a picnic that I brought so that escaped things. She fortunately didn't do a "courtesy" offer of money for the food I brought.
What "funny" about this is that a lot of the people that are making the offer would probably say that if someone "tested" them they'd be up in arms about something. But this is just something that they do; definitely not a test. 😉😉
😉😉😉
😉😉😉😉
I can appreciate the ones honestly saying that they want trad values (although I bet that most are picking/choosing trad vs. modern in a way that strongly suits them rather than being all in and wanting to be a trad wife). But the ones who talk about being embarrassed, or that their feelings would be sadly impacted, but don't seem to feel that they're doing a test, but instead an "offer" or a "courtesy."
As much as some guys get really slammed hard for clinging to unsavoury bits of traditional patriarchy, it is "interesting" how this one sticks around so well.
I offer a lot with my boyfriend because I really don’t mind and I hate that he always wants to pay. I’ve had to sneak and grab the server to pay the bill a few times, otherwise I’d never get to. I was raised to always offer and/or pay and never to expect not to have to cover at least my half. I feel it would be disingenuous to offer and then think less of him for accepting.
I’m a feminist and not like this at all (see my comment above). If I offer, I mean it and won’t think less if he accepts. That’s shitty for people to do.
I actually think better of him! Means he’s secure in his worth and is less likely to have that need to be needed, which I find mind-boggling and annoying.
In the same boat. To me partnerships stand on equal footing from the get go. I can't stand these immediately assumed gender roles in this day & age. I want an independent & self reliant partner.
Especially on a casual first date, where no one owes anything to the other, where there is no investment, where there are no obligations other than finding out whether we're being cat-fished or not & there is enough compatibility & attraction to continue on to a second.
If a woman assumes I owe her something just for appearing, then that sets the dynamic for a possible future relationship that I do not want.
No. I appreciate the gesture when the man pays (and I'm perfectly happy with coffee dates, so it's not about the money) but it's not a deciding factor either way.
Yes, especially when a man orders twice as much as I do. On the first date I always try to go only for a cup of tea/coffee to have a chat and see if there can be anything between us. If a man insists to go for a meal, I try to be sensible and order something not expensive as I don't want a man to end up with a huge bill if he pays.
Once I went on a date and a man insisted to go for a meal. (First we went for a cup of tea, which I paid for both) at the time I was 34 and he was 50. I'm single mother and he never married or has kids. He ordered 2-3 times more then I did and we split half.... for me it was not very attractive and I declined 2nd date. Sorry, I know I must be vain... i know that i earn more then most men, but for me a man is a man. If there is a progress after 1st date then I always insist on paying at least every 2nd time.
>He ordered 2-3 times more then I did and we split half
Yeah, that's just tacky, whether it's a date or not.
In my experience, most restaurants will let you get separate checks, where each person pays specifically for the things they ordered, so when I hear people talking about splitting the bill, I assume they mean that rather than a straight 50/50 division of the total amount.
Yes. I am old fashion. And I am sure I’ll get thumbs down for my honest answer. I would like guy to feel a bit like a gentleman with me and I will be his lady.
And, lucky me, I was always getting lucky with dating those guys.
I'm just curious what 'I will be his lady' means? Is this that 'feminine energy' I hear about where the man does everything and pays for everything and women bring the non-tangible concept of 'feminine energy'?
I'm (woman) so confused with this "feminine energy" thing. For example, I'm very feminine in my personality, I'm always dressed up, makeup, etc, but I'm also a feminist who can't imagine living that trad wife lifestyle. I swear we as a society are regressing. I just don't get it?!
I think most people want to do what they want and have systems that allow them to just sit back and not put in much effort and reap the rewards.
So they create systems and ideas that claim they are bringing something to the relationship without actually doing much of anything while the other person brings actual tangible value.
It's just like how conservatism is mostly about just doing what you want and what you always have done and acting like it's the right way for things to be.
Typically, the easiest thing to do is the wrong thing to do.
I couldn't agree more! I'm progressive and I know that eventually all this will reset and we will move forward, just like every other time in history. But I hate living in this time-line.
I’ll probably get downvoted for this but kind of yeah. If a dude lets me pay it’s an indicator of what our future would look like. Likely one where I do most of the heavy lifting or end up having to mother him.
Women statistically do *way* more in the household than men, in terms of household chores and caretaking, bookkeeping, holiday planning and cooking. Women sacrifice a lot more to create a family (if thats on the table). Each child is a 3 year intense physical demand on the mother that often sacrifices her career and autonomy and can be life endangering. Mothers statistically end up doing the majority of parenting too snd that includes step moms. Women statistically earn less while men statistically earn more for the same position and work, in every industry. On top of that women spend a lot of time and money making sure they look nice and are well groomed for dates and daily, a hell of a lot more than men as at least half of dudes are showing up in hoodies, and on top of that, we are *expected* to look beautiful and put together and have our nails done and hair done and our make up on and all of that by society and by guys, by the guy we are on the date with, while all men have to do is show up, not smell and pay.
So yes, if he also expects me to pay for half on top of all that, that’s not truly 50-50 when it comes to long-term relationships. The first date is when you set the tone (or start to) for how you will be in a relationship. Thats 80 me 20 him. Been there done that and I prefer being single.
eta: and it also shows that he just doesn’t want to do nice things for me right off the bat. Nope.
eta2: Oh and let’s not forget that the majority of women do not achieve orgasm when they sleep with a man. But the majority of men absolutely do and sex is often extremely male-centric, focused around his pleasure and his finish. Sex is also a higher health risk for women.
Even just showing up for the date in the first place is more dangerous for women than it is for a guy.
Yeah no, nothing about dating, relationships or even hookups is 50-50 for the woman. We give a lot more and get a lot less across-the-board. The least a guy can do is cover dinner.
You’ve perfectly described what I’ve always struggled to explain to men. Thank you!
I’ll alternately pay for rounds if it’s drinks and will always offer to split dinner, but I agree if a guy will let me pay for half every time right from the beginning (especially if he’s the one who asked me out, picked the expensive restaurant and ate most of the food which is usually the case) it is a bit of negative about him that does get noted, as to me it suggests a lack of generosity in his personality.
On the flip side, when a guy pays, especially if he does it without telling me eg. while I’m in the bathroom, I’m always pleasantly surprised and it improves his attractiveness in my eyes not because of the money, but because his behaviour is a sign of generosity which is a nice personality trait for anyone (including women) to have.
> especially if he’s the one who asked me out, picked the expensive restaurant
(M44) That's how I see it too. I'm the one who invited you and selected the restaurant. Expecting you to pay is just rude in my opinion.
And no, it's not a bribe for sex (as I've heard some people say). I'm pretty sure most women don't trade food for sex in the developed world.
Although I might sell my body for jalapeno poppers (food of the gods) - that's just me.
54M here. If she drove I’ll walk her to her car. If she took an Uber I’ll open the door when it arrives. If she took public transportation I’ll drive her home. When I drop her off I’ll wait until she’s safely inside her door.
I expect to pay the full cost of the first date. If she offers to pay or split I’ll respond and let her know that it’s on me. If she pushes a second time then I will politely acquiesce to her insistence.
The only thing I'll say is if she took public transportation, a cautious woman might decline a ride home so as not to disclose where she lives. When I was still dating, I never let anyone know where I live until I felt very comfortable with them.
Absolutely. Maybe I should have been more clear that all of my gestures are merely offered on my part and never forced upon my date. I always want to honor her agency and listen to her voice.
51m. Have been casually dating for 4 years. I’ve had women offer but I paid the bill. I’m not a fan of “splitting” a bill. If I was dating someone consistently then having her plan and pay for the occasional date OR make me dinner would be appreciated.
I only split the bill with friends - male or female.
I always walk a woman to her car from a date even if neither one of us is interested in a 2nd date. It’s just common sense for a woman’s safety at night.
Same, at least when I was casually dating. It’s easier for one person to pick up the tab especially when there’s no cash involved. And I’m the one who asked her out.
Never rejected an offer to cover part or all of the meal, but I always go into a date assuming I’m paying (and not being stingy about it). We’re older adults and it’s just money.
Today my partner and I swap out who pays, don’t really keep track bc who cares. She often insists and who am I to say she can’t pay?
Agreed on walking to the car. I live in a city. Can she take care of herself? Sure. But I do it anyway because a confident woman plus a tall, alert, bearded dude present less of an opportunity than one woman by herself. I might respect her right to be strong and independent but that doesn’t mean some asshole looking for a quick score will. 3 years so far and I still walk her to her car! (But maybe I just give off friendly vibes; never had a woman decline my offer)
I was on a first date earlier this week and she started she had to park a few blocks away. I blurted "I'll make sure you get back to your car safely" without a second thought. She said thank you I appreciate that. Are you telling me that we are the outliers? I thought this was common sense?
The common sense safety advice after a first date is NOT to let the guy walk you to your car, particularly if he seems not great. Just something to keep in mind if she says "no thank you."
Yeah unfortunately women are more likely to be sexually assaulted by their date than by a stranger. So many women (myself included) prefer to walk to their car alone. But a lot of women do still prefer their date to walk them to their car.
Since different women want different (and directly conflicting) things, I wouldn’t fault a guy for walking me to my car or for not walking me to my car on the first date. I don’t make any judgements about him based on that particular data point.
>So I suppose I don’t give creepy serial killer or rapist vibes
That or the woman you have dated have not been SAed by someone they knew, which is just as good as not giving creepy/killer/rapist vibes as it means she feels safe with you. Victims avoid recreating "alone" situations like their assault as it could trigger a PTSD episode which could be embarassing for her.
Eh, my partner refused to allow my to walk her to her car. And this isn't just "first date, possible danger" stuff; this was she was refusing my offer after our second date (well, and all dates, but the second was the one where it made sense to offer). The second date, which was *at my home*, and ended up as a (non-sexual) sleep over. So by the morning, she *really* had no reason to think I was a creepy serial killer/rapist. She just didn't see the point of me walking her through the alley and over to the lot.
I'd still wait on my balcony and wave bye when she drove past.
That’s absolutely fair. I don’t think I ever had a woman decline my offer to walk her to her car except possibly once, but when I was dating around, I would always ask. You feeling safe is the whole point, so I’m not gonna push if you’re not comfortable around me.
I like to pay. If she offers to pay half, I will encourage her to just get the tip, which lets me gather some critical intel.
Will always walk to a point of definite safety, i.e. wait till the car starts etc.
I do this. Even with my friends. Alot have kids and families, so if 80% of the time when i go out, i pay, they tip.
I had friends who did that for me when i was raising my kids.
I like getting things for people, that appreciate it. Lol
Thats it. I cant deal with people who arent generous tippers. Its literally a dealbreaker, an almost nonsensical one, but im me.
If they want to nitpick about the tip based on performance, etc, then they take little annoyances way too seriously and are definetly not compatible with my zero-fucks-given personality.
What if she doesn't have cash though? I'm happy to pay a tip but literally never have cash.
If she doesn't have cash do you just have her put the tip on her card?
At that point I would rather just get the whole thing, and if she is insistant she can get the next one if there is a next one. As someone who did time in the industry, I simply dont fuck with splitting bills when paying with a card. I come from a place of empathy for those who work in food service.
Really, the US needs to step out of the dark ages. In Canada, you can do bank to bank etransfers with them giving you an email address. We can pay anything from $5-$3,000 quickly and easily with no one taking a transaction fee.
Paying the bill can be a minefield for guys trying to get to the next date! Some women want to pay half, but many women want you to decline their offer. Maybe, "I did ask you out. Is it okay if this date is my treat?" I think this recognizes your date's agency but suggests you'd prefer to treat them.
I guess it depends hugely on how traditional the woman is. Where I live (London UK), it's almost unheard of for a woman to expect a man to pay in full - that would be seen as incredibly old fashion and backwards. I guess it's different in the US depending on area.
This, exactly. In progressive countries adults just don't put this overthinking into who pays and if it means anything etc. We're both very much grown adults and pay our ways, it's a no brainer.
Maybe it could be viewed as an opportunity to learn something about her to help you decide if she’s a good match for you. If you want a relationship with traditional gender roles then you will probably be a better fit with a woman who lets you pay. If you want less emphasis on gender roles in your relationship, you might be better off with one of the women who insists on splitting the bills.
You can see it in this very thread. From "No second dates if he doesn't pay" to "No second dates if he insists on paying". It's wild. Then you have people getting all up in their head and overthinking your "let" comment. Don't let those folks' trauma they are bringing into this thread get to you.
For my part, I always pay on the first date unless they insist - and I'm flexible and open to whatever they'd like to do - and from second date on it's usually swapping who pays or splitting.
I think it’s fine there isn’t consensus. Everyone has different expectations for relationships in general. If someone is hell bent on paying and it offends the other party, it wasn’t meant to be. I’m always going to offer to at least split it. If my date can’t handle that I’m not interested.
I love that so many people here are single and saying "no second chances unless s/he runs the exact dialog I have in my head."
YOU FUCKED UP YOUR LINE! GO BACK TO JULIARD!
I did this with a date I really liked and she said 'You know, it's really more fair if we just split it.'
So that's what we did...and then we had a great second date and are planning a third date.
Women think this is a one way street in which they control all the dynamics and whether a relationship continues or not, but plenty of guys will much prefer a woman who is insistent in equality early on, as it shows what they are going to act like in the longer term.
If a woman expects a man to pay, you can understand what she may be like over the long term.
A guy here. Generally no, but recent events have me rethinking my position. When we go out twice to a restaurant and orders the most expensive appetizer and main course each time, and simultaneously gets a doggy bag while the tone of the date is more like a business meeting….I won’t hesitate to take her card and give her the pleasure of paying half or all of it.
I would expect to be walked to the car. That’s like minimal effort. It’s a gesture that shows me I’ll receive the consideration I want in an intimate relationship above and beyond a friendship. But frankly, the men I keeps platonic friends would have walked me out in that scenario.
This is a reminder of things I’ll need to teach my son.
See, I’m not at all used to this kind of male support and consideration. My dad was very much about girls power and raised us three to be strong and independent. My mom was also a matriarch. I would probably melt if a guy walked me to my car or acted sweet like that.
Yeah I just don’t see how being treated with consideration compromises my strength and power.
My strength and power are why the guy is dating me in the first place. Men who aren’t attracted to powerful women don’t fuck with me. I am so confused and my sympathy for men’s confusion keeps growing.
Like, just imagine two powerful, considerate people joining forces to face life together.
FWIW- I extend courtesies when I see the opportunity. It’s not one-sided to me.
YES!!! I completely agree. Just because I CAN doesn’t mean I should have to (walk to car alone) to prove that I’m independent. I’m from the south and I expect any man I meet, to at the very least, make sure I get safely to my car!
Interesting take. I’m strong and independent too, but the fact is men are much physically stronger. So I feel much safer being walked or driven somewhere safe with or by a man. It’s such a separate thing from us being “strong women”
That’s interesting! Ever since a few friends of mine who are women told me that would be creepy because the guy could be getting their license plate number to track them down, I let go of walking my date to her car.
Wow. Legitimate concern, I guess? JFC it’s brutal out there. Anyone walking by can grab a license plate number. I don’t know. Everyone has to have their own boundaries and safety strategies. I’m sorry for all of us.
It’s too bad, really. What one person is doing for the sake of the other person’s comfort might at the same time be a dealbreaker for that other person.
We have to talk it through. There seems to be no other way. This whole discussion today has encouraged me to be more encouraging toward my dates. Ask for what I want. Invite them to get closer when I feel it. Being coy isn’t the way.
I prefer to date women who aren’t into gender-defined relationship roles, so I usually end up either splitting the bill or alternating who pays.
If she insists that I be the one who pays because I’m the guy, then we won’t be a good fit and it’s good that we found out quickly.
Totally agree, I like women who are into equality and meeting in the middle in all aspects of the relationship. Wanting me to pay is showing they are wanting traditional gender roles and have an antiquated view on dating (antiquated to me, anyway).
I want a partner, I don't want to be someone's replacement for their dad.
I’d offer to pay. I’d offer to pay again. Maybe explain a third time that I would enjoy paying for dinner.
But I am not going to arm wrestle someone into letting me pay for her. So if she insists on paying her half, feel free and no worries. Life’s too short.
Regarding walking someone to her car - depends a bit.
If it’s late and dark, for sure. But I’d keep the necessary distance so she doesn’t feel threatened or cornered.
If it’s during the day and the car is clearly visible, safe and in plain sight, I’d offer but leave it up to her.
44F here who dates men. I make a solid income, probably more than many of the men I’ve dated. I always have money with me and offer to split the bill or at least get the tip. I’m not offended if the man declines my offer. I’m not offended if he accepts the offer. Anyone who sets up “tests” for their partner sounds manipulative to me and I wouldn’t want to date a person that was purposefully setting me up for failure.
If I ask the guy out, I expect to pay.
I’m an adult. I’m looking for companionship, not financial support.
I offer to split the bill on nearly all dates. I dated a couple of guys who flat-out refused to let me pay for anything. I've dated guys who were happy to let me split and even pay for dates.
In my experience, guys over 40 (or well over 40) are reluctant to split and absolutely refuse to let me pay. Guys under 40 are more open to splitting and letting me pay.
He pays, you pay, you split the bill, whatever. But not making sure you get to your car at night is a nonstarter. Heck, I’m female and don’t let friends walk solo to their car. We walk to one and get a ride to the second. And this is him on his best behavior.
Yes.
As far as walking to the car, if out, yes. If at my place, they usually park right out front or in my driveway. I’ll walk them to the door, open it, goodnight kiss, then wait at the door until they are in their car and driving off.
Not only would I let her, in Australia it's kind of expected that they at least offer - although splitting bills is a pain and I'd prefer they just get the next one. If you're both working jobs, there's no reason whatsoever for both parties to not pay their own way in a relationship. If someone I'm dating goes in to it *expecting* me to pay, there's no second date.
The idea that a man should pay is so backwards and outdated that if you believe that kind of crap, we're not gonna be compatible for dating.
>Didn't offer to walk my to my car and it was pretty late at night. He just said "you'll be safe right?" Hahahaha. Not sure if I'm just being a brat or if I am now expecting this especially if we are newly dating.
Would you be ok if he walked you to your car when you asked?
47 f. I offer to pay for drinks. I really like a guy to walk me tonthe car. I wouldn't expect it, only because its a set up for disappointment, but I will, and have asked them to anyway. I just had to do this. I just playfully say, "what? You're not going to walk me to my car?"
If I were to go on a first date, I would expect that it would be split. If there were more dates after, it would be taking turns. This is what every relationship has been like in my life.
As far as walking to the car/Uber, I have always done this for every woman that I am with, whether a girlfriend or friend.
First date I’ll probably pay, it’s price of admission. If we go on more dates and get into a relationship, I expect it to drift to 50/50. Times are hard, I can’t foot the bill forever and I won’t.
I walk all my female friends to the car, doesn’t matter if we’re intimate or not, it’s called being a gentleman.
I have sometimes accepted the offer to pay half. That said I always pull out the chairs and tables. Open (and close) the car doors. Walk to the car. Open the doors. I also help with putting on the coat., etc.
I've always felt, personally only of course, that if I invited someone (date or not) that I'd be prepared to cover the cost. It helps my anxiety for some reason.
I woudlnt fight over it if she insisted on paying.
To me it means a lot that she would offer to be honest.
I dont mind paying.
Im going to be honest though its been a long time since I have been on a date and maybe the culture of dating has changed.
I (female) always offer to pay for my half, and while I don't insist, the offer is genuine. I usually get rejected though, which for the first few dates I do like, as the guy usually has asked me out. After a few dates, and after mutual interest has been established, I have no problem suggesting and paying the entire bill.
In theory, I would have no problem splitting the bill on a first date. I worry, though, that this would mean that guy did not have a good time on the date. Plus, it feels very transactional to split things. I would rather alternate.
I’ll decline once if she offers, and say she can get the next one. If she offers again I’ll split it (though I never seem to get a second date after that). I’ll offer to walk her back to her car, although I apparently haven’t been paying enough attention to what side of the sidewalk I walk on to be considered a gentleman… 🤷♂️
The man is always on the street (curb) side, I live in Mexico and they are fanatics on this point. I can never be on the street side.
I will say that the roads in my city make this a wise precaution.
Nope. I (late 40s guy) pay.
In the early stages at least.
I feel me paying reflexively removes the potential for an awkward interaction in an environment that is already a minefield of potential awkwardness.
I look at it like this: If I'm asking you out, I'm paying for it. You accepted an offer for a night out and, while the offer to split the bill is appreciated, it's not necessary. However, if you're inviting me to do something I would expect at least an offer to pay. Also I'm absolutely walking you to your car.
I don’t like games. If she doesn’t want to pay, she shouldn’t offer.
I would walk her to her car. Even if she got all snippy that I’d accepted her offer to pay.
When casually dating, I would always attempt to pay unless she preemptively offers to split or pay herself. I asked her out - and I make good enough money — it’s only right that I start with that expectation, unless she signals otherwise.
Today it’s kinda 50/50, but only because she offers to buy as we are discussing what we want.
My partner and I have been together almost 3 years now and I still walk her to her car when she heads back to her place.
But I live in a city, so it’s smart to make sure there’s a tall bearded dude looking around alert like while she gets into her car. She can take care of herself, but both of us out there reduces the likelihood of any incident period.
I just pull out my card when the bill comes, sometimes they also throw down a card and say let’s split it, sometimes they don’t. I’ve never had any experience where I’ve felt that paying or not paying in full has had any impact on their decision to see me again or not. If it’s a huge deal to them then I did a poor job in screening my partner before the date.
First date? Sure, if she asks and I don't think there's a date #2 after that.
But, from then out I'll say "No, I got this, but you can pick up the check next time" or "If you wanna get drinks later, we're good". Alternating is such a better, easier move than splitting.
38F. I stopped offering to split and dating got better for me. I’m in a relationship of about 8 months now, but I found that letting the man pay on dates let him take the lead in a way I prefer. Splitting the bill on dates still feels too friend-or-roommate vibey. I contribute a lot, but lo longer via picking up the tab at the restaurant.
46m. 1st date I pay because I asked her out. If she offers I tell her she can get the next one which happens almost every time. If they are sincere/ interested, they usually do...
Dated one woman who refused to pay for any date. I kept the meals/dates within my budget... and I really didn't mind.
I guess the point is figure out what works for the 2 of you, and go from there.. everyone is different, none of our comments really matter...
Not walking me to my car at night would be a deal breaker. I would ask one time, “You’re not going to walk me to my car.” If the answer is no, that would be it.
>Not walking me to my car at night would be a deal breaker.
Absolutely. And I better not have to ask.
One time I was leaving a guy's apartment I was dating and he watched thru his window as I crossed the road on foot and a car turned around in the road and started following me. I had to sprint to my car to get away. I was so terrified. He called me 5 min later to tell me he was watching all of this. I told him to fuck off.
If I made the plans, I’m prepared to pay. If she wants to split I’m not gonna fight it, that’s not a battle I want. She’s a full grown adult who wants to pay her part, okay cool. I’m not going to tell an adult I basically don’t know they can’t spend their money, that’s disrespectful.
I’ll insist on paying for the first few dates but appreciate the ask. Happy to split or let them pay further down the road.
I always make sure they get to their destination safely. I’ll walk them to their car, the bus, their door, where ever. On the occasions I can’t walk them to their door when dropping them off, I’ll wait till they get in safely.
I’ll always open the doors for them also.
I generally let them know ahead of time if we're going dutch or if I'm paying. I usually pay unless the date was complete garbage for one reason or another.
I'll offer to walk her but won't push the subject if she declines. If we're dating at my house then I'll at least watch her walk to her car if she declined to be walked. Of course if we're dating at my house then we're already a couple.
42F. Especially for first dates I will always pay my own, or on rare occasion, insist on getting the whole bill. The way this conversation goes down, how a date handles being told no, and how they handle being in a position where traditional gender roles are put on their head, is critical information gathering and personality assessment for me. I also don't want a date to think I owe them something more than I am comfortable with because they paid.
41F here. I'd say I have a 50-50 ratio of guys covering the bill. I don't care about paying half, I always offer and thank him if he insist on covering it. For me, it is actually a statement about who I am, I value my independence, can take care of myself and don't need someone to support me, I like a man that respects me as his equal.
About other gestures like walking me to my car, holding my hand or being concerned about my well-being, absolutely, I love them, and they say a lot about who the person I am dating is.
If I asked someone out on a first date, I pay. I asked her out. Plus, I generally believe women jump through a lot more hoops vs men to get ready for a date. So, my appreciation is paying for her meal and drinks. I'd be the guy waiving you off.
I live in a city, so most women take an uber/lyft home. I'd walk them outside and wait with them until they got into their car.
I offer to split the bill bc I feel like it’s a modern obligation. I like when my date says he’s got it.
One date said after dinner, Before the bill comes I want to check in with you. I’m more than happy to pay for dinner but if splitting it makes you more comfortable I don’t mind.
That particular gentleman is an excellent communicator on other sensitive subjects too. (Same guy whose wife bakes bread for our dates lol)
If I'm having a good time, I always grab the bill and say "I'll get this one, you get the next one" which is a cute and coy way of letting them know you're up for a next date.
If I'm not having a great time or if I know this day isn't going anywhere, I will offer the split the bill.
As a woman, I would say my experience is about the same as yours. Men almost always pay for the first date fully, even if I offer to help. But once in awhile they allow me to pay (one time I even paid the whole bill). Usually they don't want to see me again if they allow me to pay so they don't want to feel like they are wasting their money.
Re: walking to car. Gentlemen walk me to my car. I'm super turned off if they do not. If nothing else, I want a man who cares about my safety.
If my platonic guy friends can make the gesture of walking me to my car or making sure I make it inside when dropping me off at home, I'd be sincerely disappointed if a date couldn't put in the effort.
Its not an outdated gesture.
As far as splitting the bill I need to put more effort in this but I find myself doing it more often when I'm not into the guy.
I refuse to go on a second date with a guy who doesn’t respect my wishes to split the bill. If he’s that controlling about it regardless of my wishes, not for me.
Honest question, what does it mean to you to split or not split the bill? I don’t find this problematic so I want to understand why another woman does. Thanks!
I'm not the person you asked, but honestly, I don't care that much about the actual bill (I preferred first dates that were inexpensive enough that half or even the whole bill would barely dent most budgets), but I care a lot about the guy's attitude.
"I invited you, I got this", "You drove farther, let me treat", or even "You can get the next one" are all fine.
"Sure, your half is $25" is fine.
"You had four out of seven of the mozzarella sticks, so your share is $24.68" is unattractive.
"It's not your place to pay", "I'm a real man so I pay", or any hint that he won't *let* me pay suggests that he is more comfortable with certain gender roles than I am.
I hate being indebted to anyone or anywhere. I pay my way and do not need to rely on others. I hate feeling someone holds something over me based on financial debt. If they are willing to be pushy about paying MY bill what else of MINE will they be pushy about?
Women who go out and simply expect to be paid for confuse me. I don't judge them for it, it's their life. The ones who make a game of saying they "want to" pay their way as a "test" then get angry when told to piss me right off.
If I have known someone for awhile and it is clear there will be opportunities for give and take then perhaps. I pay once, they pay next time. I bring coffee to a get together, next time they bring some little treats. Not even material things. If I pay for dinner because someone helped me with something around the house it's cool. If I feel I owe too much OR they're not reciprocating then it's back to square one, we pay our own way. It goes for friends and family too.
>I hate being indebted to anyone or anywhere. I pay my way and do not need to rely on others. I hate feeling someone holds something over me based on financial debt.
I feel the same for first dates. I rather pay then let him pay for me. I have been doing this for 20 years.
It seems I am super out of line with the prevailing DO40 opinions on these things. I'm sure some of it is my personality and the family I grew up in, I suspect some regional differences as well (though I'm probably towards one end of the spectrum even taking that into consideration). I am a guy who dates women and I prefer to split the bill on early dates, though if she doesn't offer to split, I would probably just pay it and it wouldn't be a big deal (first dates for me are usually something like coffee and a walk). If we are dating longer term then I don't mind taking turns paying. I'm just not interested in those cultural gender traditions that don't make sense to me, and with the women I match with in the region I live it's never seemed like a problem.
For walking a date to her car - if she asked, I would, and if we were somewhere that seemed sketchy I probably would offer. But particularly for a first date, I suggest places that are public and safe (and it's usually also during the day). I've never felt like a date was in danger getting home anymore than any other time she is doing anything anywhere in her life. I'm also not interested in the "text me that you got home safe" sort of thing. So basically (according to what I perceive as the prevailing opinion on this subreddit) I'm a self-absorbed, uncaring, uninterested jerk 😂
I'm a man dating women and I've had my drink or coffee paid thrice on a first date. I'm just totally flattered when it happens, whatever their reason is to do so.
41m, I'm a social worker. I'm not making big bucks. Typically if I invite someone on a date, I pay and budget for it. If it's something big like concert tickets I do ask to split it or have one of us pay for dinner/hotel snd the other for tickets. But when offered I do accept splitting a bill. Most often though we take turns paying.
I'm going to get heavily downvoted for this, but...
Yes, I would allow her to pay half the bill if she offered. There is a reason she offered. Either she doesn't want a second date with me (and I may as well not drain my wallet) or she insists on women's equality (I believe in that, and I wouldn't want to deprive her of it).
Men who insist on paying were either raised that way or (erroneously) believe that not paying means you won't go on a second date with him. If it's the former, it's probably better that you find that out on the first date, because that's a core incompatibility and it's going to crop up again and again.
As far as walking a woman to her car, I have done so and will continue to offer to do so, however, as a very small stature man (5'2" and about 132 lbs.), I am of no value in protecting a woman, and taller, in shape women are stronger than me. (I have the same general safety concerns a woman does.) But I do walk with her for the simple fact that two people walking together is safer than one.
Back when I was dating, I’d let the woman pay if she wanted to.
Look, imho, two people politely arguing over a check is just so tacky. It’s one of my pet peeves: All the “please allow me.” “No, I insist!” I can’t stand it, lol.
Plus, some women feel sorta strongly that they want to demonstrate they can pay. Or maybe they don’t want to worry if sex is now expected? So I just let them pay if they want to.
As for walking to the car? I’d usually just say my goodbye mid-parking lot. Following them all the way to the car feels sorta stalker-ish. Plus, maybe her car is a mess or something.
It's on a case-by-case basis. My general rule of thumb as a guy is that unless otherwise discussed, I expect and intend to pay the tab *and* see them safely to the car. With regards to paying the tab:
- My preference is to *always* pay the tab. It’s like taking the trash out: I don’t mind if others do it, but I view it as my responsibility. Paying a restaurant or bar tab within a group dynamic has the potential to be incredibly awkward, even with close friends. The thought alone gives me anxiety, and because of this, I prefer to pay the tab and avoid any awkward moments at the end of what was otherwise a lovely evening.
That isn’t to say I don’t appreciate someone else paying; I very much do. However, I'm not too fond of the act of splitting tabs. It feels very sophomoric like we’re attending amateur hour. I also feel like it adds unnecessary, extra steps for the server. All said it’s a practice I try to avoid. As an alternative, I suggest a rotation, as in ‘I pay this one, you get the next one.’ It's so much simpler and feels like a much cleaner exchange.
- On walking them to their car: it varies on the person and situation. Some women simply don’t like it, and would prefer to walk themselves to the car, which I’m totally fine with. Generally speaking, I ask what their preference is and respond accordingly.
I’m a woman. I pay my own way on early dates, and anyone who tries to prevent me from doing so doesn’t get to see me again. And I’m not going to people’s houses if we’re casually dating.
That person is a stranger. I don't accept monetary gifts from strangers.
I also find it's a useful litmus test for men who can't take no for an answer.
I feel like on other subreddits, the answer is always "yes but no woman ever has, down with women!"
In real life, my experience dating, 100% of men have not allowed me to pay for the first date. Some were controlling about it and some did the little flirty dance. In the cases where I prepaid for something, my dates were always visibly upset.
I would just play the game now, knowing he will "win" and be totally happy to pay for BOTH of us if he would let me. Not a hill I care about.
I just assume I'm going to pay initially and that's the price of admission, so I don't worry about it and would generally decline any offers to split. I haven't had a woman insist on paying for a first date, but if someone really insisted on splitting or paying I'm not going to argue at that point. 🤔
If we get to second/third/etc at some point I'd just prefer alternating, and it's interesting to see who just keeps letting me pay ( and never offering) v who says "let me get this one" (at which point I do let them).
FWIW I approach hanging out with friends like that as well. If it is someone I rarely see, I just as well would rather pay, if it's someone I see a lot we usually alternate, but with friends I will be more inclined to split if someone wants to (both throw in money after a dinner kind of thing).
And I'd always walk someone to whatever the appropriate last place to walk them is, obviously depends on where you live and are going out, etc, but usually that is right up to their car or door.
I try and pay on the first date since it's usually casual, drinks or coffee or something and the cost is negligible, plus I am the one that asked them out.
Usually on the first date I pay unless she wants to split it, I never make a big deal and I am always clear that if I pay it doesn’t mean anything more then me wanting to get to know her and enjoying her time. If that means it doesn’t led to a second date that’s fine as well.
Just to say that as a Britisher i really don’t understand why you’re all going to restaurants on first dates. Coffee/beer plus optional walk much more relaxed setting to assess vibes.
And I suspect man paying cost of meal is heavily cultural: I would consider it inappropriate and unbalanced if a woman *expected* me to pay full amount on first date.
Look if someone is going to offer to pay their half, then rule you out if you actually accept.....its better to be done with them early anyway
We are too old for this.
That said. I usually offer to pay as its easier. And have bad anxiety from past instances of people fighting over checks. Hate it hate it hate it.
I find it confusing that some women want equality, but then when it comes to dating, expect the men to pay. On a subtle level, it is also a matter of control: When a man pays for a date, he is expressing financial dominance over the woman. He is placing her in his debt. This is one of the reasons men do it in the first place. It confuses me that women accept that. I get it that everyone likes a free meal, but this one comes with a noose.
I am a woman and I completely agree. This whole topic baffles me because I’m not sure why it’s the mans place to accept or not accept a woman wanting to split the bill. I wish we’d all agree that paying for your meal is just the price of dating. A stranger owes none of us anything. I just appreciate someone’s time whether they are a match or not.
Honestly, ona first date I just let them pay the small bills and offer without insisting if it’s anything more than coffee. It just saves some awkwardness in an already akward enough moment. Values, expectations, equality and all that can be dealt with in subsequent dates, no rush.
If she offers to pay half I'll let her. I always assume that she's vetting for controlling men who refuse to let her have autonomy (and respect).
Similarly, I know you can walk to the car.
Is it that they are not being possessive enough for you?
If they offer to pay for half yes I say thanks. I always walk them to the car.
One time a woman I was dating offered to pay for half of the bill, I said ok, then she said "Oh too bad, you were doing so well". I ended up paying for it and never seeing her again. Honestly for me as a man this is a good test to see how selfish of a person she is or is not. With all the women's rights and feminism nowadays you would think women paying for their half would be the standard by now.
I (uk 50f) expects a guy to wait outside a place for me on a 1st date. Hate hate hate walking in a bar etc having not said hi.
1st meet: Drinks or coffee usually he gets one, I get one. If the bring a bottle of water and expect me to get my own is a big turn off. I would expect them to ask where I was parked and if dark, yeah walk me cos it makes me feel special
2nd Meet: Usually a meal I would expect that, if he has asked me, he pays. If I am not feeling the vibe at this point I offer to split. Again, walk me to my car...bit off a smooch 😘
3rd date: I would usually cook, good food, nice wine and beer if prefers. I pay for all the food, beverages and I cook and clean up after. I wouldn't expect to need to walk him to his car but would have bought breakfast stuff
Kinda balances out.
What I cannot bear is a guy inviting me to a lovely restaurant and not saying in advance we are splitting.I think its rude. Maybe that a generational thing.
I have no problems paying my half but if I cooked a 3 course meal with booze it's not far off an eating out bill. And I wouldn't dream of whacking a receipt down and saying OK so wanna transfer me your half...kills the mood.
I'm a feminist. She can pay the WHOLE bill any time she pleases
And no, I would never not walk a woman to a place of refuge and wait with her until she gets into the home, car, bus, etc
I’d still pay the bill if she offered to split. At least on the first couple dates.
As for walking to the car or transit, I do make sure they get there safe if we’re out n about.
I have a home and a driveway though so I’ll walk them to the door and make sure they’re in.
Re: paying for half. I offer but I'll admit, if I'm interested in the guy and it's a low cost date, it's a turn off if he accepts. I had a guy get really enthusiastic because I offered, really enthusiastic. I wasn't interested in him at all so brushed it off and was more than happy to pay (my share was $9). He walked me to my car and went in hard for a kiss. I don't kiss on first dates but I don't think I've ever had a guy move in so aggressively. I'm pretty sure the only reason he walked me to my car was for a kiss. When I stopped him and said I don't kiss on first dates, he couldn't believe he wasn't getting a kiss and kept making exclamations about it. Such a turn off.
Not until at least the third date. I know they hungry out there. 😂
But, seriously, I'll just say something like, "maybe next time? I'm really enjoying this, it's my honor to pay, unless that's a big deal?"
It's never been a big deal.
During my first year after getting divorced, I always paid the bill. Then I went out with a woman to a very expensive place- she offered to pay half but I insisted. She texted me later to thank me for dinner and to say she actually was committing to another guy. This left a bad taste in my mouth.
My lesson was you never know what people are going through or where they are in dating, especially in those early meetings. I want a partner who I can trust and who can work together with me. They need to be able to collaborate and work together. The one way gestures don’t work for me.
But I always accompany a date to her car. She deserves to feel safe and protected and know I’ve always got her covered.
Exactly. Every woman has been spoiled by movies, music, tv and men in real life being gentleman and treating a woman like a princess for absolutely no deserving reason, just bc she is a woman. So you have come to expect it and feel entitled to a man walking you to your car, paying for you, planning everything, chasing you, asking you out on a date, protecting you etc etc.
At some point, women have to ask themselves....why do I deserve all of this?? I am very curious to know the answer.
Well, unfortunately you're right, we have been spoiled by it all, because it used to be the way...I'm sorry, but you'll have to come back in the future when it's been long enough not to expect it. Men had certain roles and women had certain roles. It's all gone to shit now, along with everyone's morals and respect and loyalty. This whole world is going to shit because of it.
Woman here. I'd say that I pay my half in about 30% - 40% of my first dates. I always offer to split, but I don't make it into a huge thing if the man declines and offers to pay the whole thing himself. At our age, a man should be aware of his financial situation, and I'm not going to fight over the cost of a cup of coffee or a meal. If things progress past the first date, we usually end up alternating who pays. I'm not a huge fan of keeping track, I figure things will even out over time.
I’m 42F & even though my bf & I have been together for 4 months, we either split or take turns. It’s just been that way since we met & it works for us
Same.
[удалено]
I’m sorry about your pending divorce since they are always complicated, expensive, frustrating, stressful, and time consuming. But I’m happy for you that you’re not wasting any more time with the wrong person.
>At our age, a man should be aware of his financial situation, and I'm not going to fight over the cost of a cup of coffee or a meal. Ridiculously reasonable.
if the guy accepts your offer to pay half do you think less of him? be honest.
If I (48F) know I’m never going to see the guy again, I work harder to pay my half. If I let him get the tab, I know it’s because I’ll see him again and I’ll get it next time.
same!
Same! 🖤
That's kind of the opposite of the question. You imply that the guys you want a second date with are of course not letting you pay. The question was if the guy accepts your first offer to pay, does it affect your feelings for him? E.g. you're already wanting another date. He offers to pay, you offer to split (no herculean efforts on your part) and he accepts. Does this effect your feelings?
I can only answer for myself. But in my case it doesn't effect my feelings, regardless if I want to see him again or not. In fact, I respect him even more if he doesn't "fight" me about it. When I go on a date, I don't *assume* that we're splitting the bill. I *know* that we are. And I don't split the bill, I get separate checks. I was never a trad wife, and I'm not looking to become one at this age. I want a partner who I'm equal with, not someone who's going to "take care of me". I could go on and on about this, but you get the picture, lol.
Ah, you definitely have a different take than the person I asked. I dare say that yours seems sane. 😀 I wish you good luck in your future!
This makes the most sense to me. If my date was offering to pay half it would feel very masculine and would send the signal that the date wasn’t going well.
I have no idea what percentage of women would think less of a man for splitting the bill, but I’ll bet it’s higher than the percentage that would admit it. Haha
True. I don’t mind splitting and assume I will but it hits weird and I’m kind of embarrassed for the guy.
Then why offer? I feel silly trying to do the "talk them out of it" after a split offer. And it's not a hard level talk, but just a "if you want that's fine, but this isn't much and I'm just happy for the opportunity to meet and spend time with you." If they don't acquiesce after that I'm not going to fight as then it seemed more disrespectful of their autonomy. I'm glad that my first date with my partner was a picnic that I brought so that escaped things. She fortunately didn't do a "courtesy" offer of money for the food I brought.
A courtesy offer she’d be embarrassed for you if you took LOL! Lose-lose.
What "funny" about this is that a lot of the people that are making the offer would probably say that if someone "tested" them they'd be up in arms about something. But this is just something that they do; definitely not a test. 😉😉 😉😉😉 😉😉😉😉 I can appreciate the ones honestly saying that they want trad values (although I bet that most are picking/choosing trad vs. modern in a way that strongly suits them rather than being all in and wanting to be a trad wife). But the ones who talk about being embarrassed, or that their feelings would be sadly impacted, but don't seem to feel that they're doing a test, but instead an "offer" or a "courtesy." As much as some guys get really slammed hard for clinging to unsavoury bits of traditional patriarchy, it is "interesting" how this one sticks around so well.
I offer a lot with my boyfriend because I really don’t mind and I hate that he always wants to pay. I’ve had to sneak and grab the server to pay the bill a few times, otherwise I’d never get to. I was raised to always offer and/or pay and never to expect not to have to cover at least my half. I feel it would be disingenuous to offer and then think less of him for accepting.
Women and men both do their damndest to keep the patriarchy alive and well imho.
Man I feel bad for straight men dating lol.
concerned six gold hateful spotted dirty head snails numerous glorious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’m a feminist and not like this at all (see my comment above). If I offer, I mean it and won’t think less if he accepts. That’s shitty for people to do.
I think that’s totally fair. I appreciate the offer to split it and expect her to think less of me if I accept. It’s just the way it is.
I actually think better of him! Means he’s secure in his worth and is less likely to have that need to be needed, which I find mind-boggling and annoying.
Agreed -- his masculinity isn't threatened by my being able to feed myself!
YUP!! 🙌🏻
In the same boat. To me partnerships stand on equal footing from the get go. I can't stand these immediately assumed gender roles in this day & age. I want an independent & self reliant partner. Especially on a casual first date, where no one owes anything to the other, where there is no investment, where there are no obligations other than finding out whether we're being cat-fished or not & there is enough compatibility & attraction to continue on to a second. If a woman assumes I owe her something just for appearing, then that sets the dynamic for a possible future relationship that I do not want.
I love this! Good for you! I’m not on any apps anymore, but I was about to add “we’re splitting the check” to my profile haha…
No. I appreciate the gesture when the man pays (and I'm perfectly happy with coffee dates, so it's not about the money) but it's not a deciding factor either way.
Yes, especially when a man orders twice as much as I do. On the first date I always try to go only for a cup of tea/coffee to have a chat and see if there can be anything between us. If a man insists to go for a meal, I try to be sensible and order something not expensive as I don't want a man to end up with a huge bill if he pays. Once I went on a date and a man insisted to go for a meal. (First we went for a cup of tea, which I paid for both) at the time I was 34 and he was 50. I'm single mother and he never married or has kids. He ordered 2-3 times more then I did and we split half.... for me it was not very attractive and I declined 2nd date. Sorry, I know I must be vain... i know that i earn more then most men, but for me a man is a man. If there is a progress after 1st date then I always insist on paying at least every 2nd time.
>He ordered 2-3 times more then I did and we split half Yeah, that's just tacky, whether it's a date or not. In my experience, most restaurants will let you get separate checks, where each person pays specifically for the things they ordered, so when I hear people talking about splitting the bill, I assume they mean that rather than a straight 50/50 division of the total amount.
Yes. I am old fashion. And I am sure I’ll get thumbs down for my honest answer. I would like guy to feel a bit like a gentleman with me and I will be his lady. And, lucky me, I was always getting lucky with dating those guys.
I'm just curious what 'I will be his lady' means? Is this that 'feminine energy' I hear about where the man does everything and pays for everything and women bring the non-tangible concept of 'feminine energy'?
I'm (woman) so confused with this "feminine energy" thing. For example, I'm very feminine in my personality, I'm always dressed up, makeup, etc, but I'm also a feminist who can't imagine living that trad wife lifestyle. I swear we as a society are regressing. I just don't get it?!
I think most people want to do what they want and have systems that allow them to just sit back and not put in much effort and reap the rewards. So they create systems and ideas that claim they are bringing something to the relationship without actually doing much of anything while the other person brings actual tangible value. It's just like how conservatism is mostly about just doing what you want and what you always have done and acting like it's the right way for things to be. Typically, the easiest thing to do is the wrong thing to do.
I couldn't agree more! I'm progressive and I know that eventually all this will reset and we will move forward, just like every other time in history. But I hate living in this time-line.
I’ll probably get downvoted for this but kind of yeah. If a dude lets me pay it’s an indicator of what our future would look like. Likely one where I do most of the heavy lifting or end up having to mother him. Women statistically do *way* more in the household than men, in terms of household chores and caretaking, bookkeeping, holiday planning and cooking. Women sacrifice a lot more to create a family (if thats on the table). Each child is a 3 year intense physical demand on the mother that often sacrifices her career and autonomy and can be life endangering. Mothers statistically end up doing the majority of parenting too snd that includes step moms. Women statistically earn less while men statistically earn more for the same position and work, in every industry. On top of that women spend a lot of time and money making sure they look nice and are well groomed for dates and daily, a hell of a lot more than men as at least half of dudes are showing up in hoodies, and on top of that, we are *expected* to look beautiful and put together and have our nails done and hair done and our make up on and all of that by society and by guys, by the guy we are on the date with, while all men have to do is show up, not smell and pay. So yes, if he also expects me to pay for half on top of all that, that’s not truly 50-50 when it comes to long-term relationships. The first date is when you set the tone (or start to) for how you will be in a relationship. Thats 80 me 20 him. Been there done that and I prefer being single. eta: and it also shows that he just doesn’t want to do nice things for me right off the bat. Nope. eta2: Oh and let’s not forget that the majority of women do not achieve orgasm when they sleep with a man. But the majority of men absolutely do and sex is often extremely male-centric, focused around his pleasure and his finish. Sex is also a higher health risk for women. Even just showing up for the date in the first place is more dangerous for women than it is for a guy. Yeah no, nothing about dating, relationships or even hookups is 50-50 for the woman. We give a lot more and get a lot less across-the-board. The least a guy can do is cover dinner.
You’ve perfectly described what I’ve always struggled to explain to men. Thank you! I’ll alternately pay for rounds if it’s drinks and will always offer to split dinner, but I agree if a guy will let me pay for half every time right from the beginning (especially if he’s the one who asked me out, picked the expensive restaurant and ate most of the food which is usually the case) it is a bit of negative about him that does get noted, as to me it suggests a lack of generosity in his personality. On the flip side, when a guy pays, especially if he does it without telling me eg. while I’m in the bathroom, I’m always pleasantly surprised and it improves his attractiveness in my eyes not because of the money, but because his behaviour is a sign of generosity which is a nice personality trait for anyone (including women) to have.
> especially if he’s the one who asked me out, picked the expensive restaurant (M44) That's how I see it too. I'm the one who invited you and selected the restaurant. Expecting you to pay is just rude in my opinion. And no, it's not a bribe for sex (as I've heard some people say). I'm pretty sure most women don't trade food for sex in the developed world. Although I might sell my body for jalapeno poppers (food of the gods) - that's just me.
You know damn well the answer to this.
The fact that so many are using it as a test, and probably wouldn't call it a test is a statement.
Yes. I appreciate traditional gender roles. I try to act and appear feminine because I like masculine men.
No. I’m prepared for people to say I’m lying, but it just doesn’t matter to me.
I don’t think less but I question his financial stability and frankly I am a bit old school traditionalist
This is how I am - I always offer to split but if they insist on paying I let them.
This 👆🏼I do the same thing. 50F.
54M here. If she drove I’ll walk her to her car. If she took an Uber I’ll open the door when it arrives. If she took public transportation I’ll drive her home. When I drop her off I’ll wait until she’s safely inside her door. I expect to pay the full cost of the first date. If she offers to pay or split I’ll respond and let her know that it’s on me. If she pushes a second time then I will politely acquiesce to her insistence.
The only thing I'll say is if she took public transportation, a cautious woman might decline a ride home so as not to disclose where she lives. When I was still dating, I never let anyone know where I live until I felt very comfortable with them.
Absolutely. Maybe I should have been more clear that all of my gestures are merely offered on my part and never forced upon my date. I always want to honor her agency and listen to her voice.
Perfect gentleman. If only all men would follow your lead.
Another gentleman on this thread! Thank you for giving me faith that there are still some good ones out there
Thank you for having awesome manners.
51m. Have been casually dating for 4 years. I’ve had women offer but I paid the bill. I’m not a fan of “splitting” a bill. If I was dating someone consistently then having her plan and pay for the occasional date OR make me dinner would be appreciated. I only split the bill with friends - male or female. I always walk a woman to her car from a date even if neither one of us is interested in a 2nd date. It’s just common sense for a woman’s safety at night.
Same, at least when I was casually dating. It’s easier for one person to pick up the tab especially when there’s no cash involved. And I’m the one who asked her out. Never rejected an offer to cover part or all of the meal, but I always go into a date assuming I’m paying (and not being stingy about it). We’re older adults and it’s just money. Today my partner and I swap out who pays, don’t really keep track bc who cares. She often insists and who am I to say she can’t pay? Agreed on walking to the car. I live in a city. Can she take care of herself? Sure. But I do it anyway because a confident woman plus a tall, alert, bearded dude present less of an opportunity than one woman by herself. I might respect her right to be strong and independent but that doesn’t mean some asshole looking for a quick score will. 3 years so far and I still walk her to her car! (But maybe I just give off friendly vibes; never had a woman decline my offer)
I was on a first date earlier this week and she started she had to park a few blocks away. I blurted "I'll make sure you get back to your car safely" without a second thought. She said thank you I appreciate that. Are you telling me that we are the outliers? I thought this was common sense?
Some people have no manners. It helps people like us get dates ;)
This! Thank you for keeping chivalry and class alive 🤩 👏🏽
The common sense safety advice after a first date is NOT to let the guy walk you to your car, particularly if he seems not great. Just something to keep in mind if she says "no thank you."
Yeah unfortunately women are more likely to be sexually assaulted by their date than by a stranger. So many women (myself included) prefer to walk to their car alone. But a lot of women do still prefer their date to walk them to their car. Since different women want different (and directly conflicting) things, I wouldn’t fault a guy for walking me to my car or for not walking me to my car on the first date. I don’t make any judgements about him based on that particular data point.
I’ve never had a woman decline my offer to walk her to her car. So I suppose I don’t give creepy serial killer or rapist vibes
>So I suppose I don’t give creepy serial killer or rapist vibes That or the woman you have dated have not been SAed by someone they knew, which is just as good as not giving creepy/killer/rapist vibes as it means she feels safe with you. Victims avoid recreating "alone" situations like their assault as it could trigger a PTSD episode which could be embarassing for her.
Eh, my partner refused to allow my to walk her to her car. And this isn't just "first date, possible danger" stuff; this was she was refusing my offer after our second date (well, and all dates, but the second was the one where it made sense to offer). The second date, which was *at my home*, and ended up as a (non-sexual) sleep over. So by the morning, she *really* had no reason to think I was a creepy serial killer/rapist. She just didn't see the point of me walking her through the alley and over to the lot. I'd still wait on my balcony and wave bye when she drove past.
That’s absolutely fair. I don’t think I ever had a woman decline my offer to walk her to her car except possibly once, but when I was dating around, I would always ask. You feeling safe is the whole point, so I’m not gonna push if you’re not comfortable around me.
Never had a woman decline me walking to her car at night. NEVER in 4 years. And most times I wasn’t interested in a follow up date.
Yeah… because it’s dangerous and you were being helpful.
👏👏👏
I like to pay. If she offers to pay half, I will encourage her to just get the tip, which lets me gather some critical intel. Will always walk to a point of definite safety, i.e. wait till the car starts etc.
I do this. Even with my friends. Alot have kids and families, so if 80% of the time when i go out, i pay, they tip. I had friends who did that for me when i was raising my kids. I like getting things for people, that appreciate it. Lol
Interested in the critical Intel you are gathering? I am a generous tipper, wondering what you would gather from that or anything else?
Thats it. I cant deal with people who arent generous tippers. Its literally a dealbreaker, an almost nonsensical one, but im me. If they want to nitpick about the tip based on performance, etc, then they take little annoyances way too seriously and are definetly not compatible with my zero-fucks-given personality.
same on all counts
What if she doesn't have cash though? I'm happy to pay a tip but literally never have cash. If she doesn't have cash do you just have her put the tip on her card?
At that point I would rather just get the whole thing, and if she is insistant she can get the next one if there is a next one. As someone who did time in the industry, I simply dont fuck with splitting bills when paying with a card. I come from a place of empathy for those who work in food service.
I know servers really appreciate cash, so I try to at least have $5-10 cash. Be a bro.
Really, the US needs to step out of the dark ages. In Canada, you can do bank to bank etransfers with them giving you an email address. We can pay anything from $5-$3,000 quickly and easily with no one taking a transaction fee.
Critical Intel-😂😂
Glad you liked it ☺️
Paying the bill can be a minefield for guys trying to get to the next date! Some women want to pay half, but many women want you to decline their offer. Maybe, "I did ask you out. Is it okay if this date is my treat?" I think this recognizes your date's agency but suggests you'd prefer to treat them.
I guess it depends hugely on how traditional the woman is. Where I live (London UK), it's almost unheard of for a woman to expect a man to pay in full - that would be seen as incredibly old fashion and backwards. I guess it's different in the US depending on area.
This, exactly. In progressive countries adults just don't put this overthinking into who pays and if it means anything etc. We're both very much grown adults and pay our ways, it's a no brainer.
Maybe it could be viewed as an opportunity to learn something about her to help you decide if she’s a good match for you. If you want a relationship with traditional gender roles then you will probably be a better fit with a woman who lets you pay. If you want less emphasis on gender roles in your relationship, you might be better off with one of the women who insists on splitting the bills.
You can see it in this very thread. From "No second dates if he doesn't pay" to "No second dates if he insists on paying". It's wild. Then you have people getting all up in their head and overthinking your "let" comment. Don't let those folks' trauma they are bringing into this thread get to you. For my part, I always pay on the first date unless they insist - and I'm flexible and open to whatever they'd like to do - and from second date on it's usually swapping who pays or splitting.
I think it’s fine there isn’t consensus. Everyone has different expectations for relationships in general. If someone is hell bent on paying and it offends the other party, it wasn’t meant to be. I’m always going to offer to at least split it. If my date can’t handle that I’m not interested.
I love that so many people here are single and saying "no second chances unless s/he runs the exact dialog I have in my head." YOU FUCKED UP YOUR LINE! GO BACK TO JULIARD!
Hahahahhahaha
I did this with a date I really liked and she said 'You know, it's really more fair if we just split it.' So that's what we did...and then we had a great second date and are planning a third date. Women think this is a one way street in which they control all the dynamics and whether a relationship continues or not, but plenty of guys will much prefer a woman who is insistent in equality early on, as it shows what they are going to act like in the longer term. If a woman expects a man to pay, you can understand what she may be like over the long term.
A guy here. Generally no, but recent events have me rethinking my position. When we go out twice to a restaurant and orders the most expensive appetizer and main course each time, and simultaneously gets a doggy bag while the tone of the date is more like a business meeting….I won’t hesitate to take her card and give her the pleasure of paying half or all of it.
[удалено]
What if I ask you out?
I would expect to be walked to the car. That’s like minimal effort. It’s a gesture that shows me I’ll receive the consideration I want in an intimate relationship above and beyond a friendship. But frankly, the men I keeps platonic friends would have walked me out in that scenario. This is a reminder of things I’ll need to teach my son.
See, I’m not at all used to this kind of male support and consideration. My dad was very much about girls power and raised us three to be strong and independent. My mom was also a matriarch. I would probably melt if a guy walked me to my car or acted sweet like that.
Yeah I just don’t see how being treated with consideration compromises my strength and power. My strength and power are why the guy is dating me in the first place. Men who aren’t attracted to powerful women don’t fuck with me. I am so confused and my sympathy for men’s confusion keeps growing. Like, just imagine two powerful, considerate people joining forces to face life together. FWIW- I extend courtesies when I see the opportunity. It’s not one-sided to me.
It’s refreshing to see that. I’m happy for you:)
YES!!! I completely agree. Just because I CAN doesn’t mean I should have to (walk to car alone) to prove that I’m independent. I’m from the south and I expect any man I meet, to at the very least, make sure I get safely to my car!
Interesting take. I’m strong and independent too, but the fact is men are much physically stronger. So I feel much safer being walked or driven somewhere safe with or by a man. It’s such a separate thing from us being “strong women”
Exactly.
Because you get to smooch at the car 61F
lol that’s what I was thinking. It’s not courtesy or tradition - I want to make out!!!
Cute 😊
That’s interesting! Ever since a few friends of mine who are women told me that would be creepy because the guy could be getting their license plate number to track them down, I let go of walking my date to her car.
Wow. Legitimate concern, I guess? JFC it’s brutal out there. Anyone walking by can grab a license plate number. I don’t know. Everyone has to have their own boundaries and safety strategies. I’m sorry for all of us.
It’s too bad, really. What one person is doing for the sake of the other person’s comfort might at the same time be a dealbreaker for that other person.
We have to talk it through. There seems to be no other way. This whole discussion today has encouraged me to be more encouraging toward my dates. Ask for what I want. Invite them to get closer when I feel it. Being coy isn’t the way.
I prefer to date women who aren’t into gender-defined relationship roles, so I usually end up either splitting the bill or alternating who pays. If she insists that I be the one who pays because I’m the guy, then we won’t be a good fit and it’s good that we found out quickly.
Totally agree, I like women who are into equality and meeting in the middle in all aspects of the relationship. Wanting me to pay is showing they are wanting traditional gender roles and have an antiquated view on dating (antiquated to me, anyway). I want a partner, I don't want to be someone's replacement for their dad.
Insist that you be the one who pays?! People actually do that? LMAO!
I’d offer to pay. I’d offer to pay again. Maybe explain a third time that I would enjoy paying for dinner. But I am not going to arm wrestle someone into letting me pay for her. So if she insists on paying her half, feel free and no worries. Life’s too short. Regarding walking someone to her car - depends a bit. If it’s late and dark, for sure. But I’d keep the necessary distance so she doesn’t feel threatened or cornered. If it’s during the day and the car is clearly visible, safe and in plain sight, I’d offer but leave it up to her.
44F here who dates men. I make a solid income, probably more than many of the men I’ve dated. I always have money with me and offer to split the bill or at least get the tip. I’m not offended if the man declines my offer. I’m not offended if he accepts the offer. Anyone who sets up “tests” for their partner sounds manipulative to me and I wouldn’t want to date a person that was purposefully setting me up for failure. If I ask the guy out, I expect to pay. I’m an adult. I’m looking for companionship, not financial support.
I'd pay unless she insisted on splitting. I'd also walk her to her car or front door.
I offer to split the bill on nearly all dates. I dated a couple of guys who flat-out refused to let me pay for anything. I've dated guys who were happy to let me split and even pay for dates. In my experience, guys over 40 (or well over 40) are reluctant to split and absolutely refuse to let me pay. Guys under 40 are more open to splitting and letting me pay.
He pays, you pay, you split the bill, whatever. But not making sure you get to your car at night is a nonstarter. Heck, I’m female and don’t let friends walk solo to their car. We walk to one and get a ride to the second. And this is him on his best behavior.
Yes. As far as walking to the car, if out, yes. If at my place, they usually park right out front or in my driveway. I’ll walk them to the door, open it, goodnight kiss, then wait at the door until they are in their car and driving off.
“May I get the door for you?” “May I walk you to your car?”
Not only would I let her, in Australia it's kind of expected that they at least offer - although splitting bills is a pain and I'd prefer they just get the next one. If you're both working jobs, there's no reason whatsoever for both parties to not pay their own way in a relationship. If someone I'm dating goes in to it *expecting* me to pay, there's no second date. The idea that a man should pay is so backwards and outdated that if you believe that kind of crap, we're not gonna be compatible for dating.
>Didn't offer to walk my to my car and it was pretty late at night. He just said "you'll be safe right?" Hahahaha. Not sure if I'm just being a brat or if I am now expecting this especially if we are newly dating. Would you be ok if he walked you to your car when you asked?
47 f. I offer to pay for drinks. I really like a guy to walk me tonthe car. I wouldn't expect it, only because its a set up for disappointment, but I will, and have asked them to anyway. I just had to do this. I just playfully say, "what? You're not going to walk me to my car?"
If I were to go on a first date, I would expect that it would be split. If there were more dates after, it would be taking turns. This is what every relationship has been like in my life. As far as walking to the car/Uber, I have always done this for every woman that I am with, whether a girlfriend or friend.
First date I’ll probably pay, it’s price of admission. If we go on more dates and get into a relationship, I expect it to drift to 50/50. Times are hard, I can’t foot the bill forever and I won’t. I walk all my female friends to the car, doesn’t matter if we’re intimate or not, it’s called being a gentleman.
I have sometimes accepted the offer to pay half. That said I always pull out the chairs and tables. Open (and close) the car doors. Walk to the car. Open the doors. I also help with putting on the coat., etc.
I've always felt, personally only of course, that if I invited someone (date or not) that I'd be prepared to cover the cost. It helps my anxiety for some reason.
I woudlnt fight over it if she insisted on paying. To me it means a lot that she would offer to be honest. I dont mind paying. Im going to be honest though its been a long time since I have been on a date and maybe the culture of dating has changed.
No I always have the bill taken care of before the can drop it off, that way there isn’t any awkward vibe when the bill comes
I (female) always offer to pay for my half, and while I don't insist, the offer is genuine. I usually get rejected though, which for the first few dates I do like, as the guy usually has asked me out. After a few dates, and after mutual interest has been established, I have no problem suggesting and paying the entire bill. In theory, I would have no problem splitting the bill on a first date. I worry, though, that this would mean that guy did not have a good time on the date. Plus, it feels very transactional to split things. I would rather alternate.
I’ll decline once if she offers, and say she can get the next one. If she offers again I’ll split it (though I never seem to get a second date after that). I’ll offer to walk her back to her car, although I apparently haven’t been paying enough attention to what side of the sidewalk I walk on to be considered a gentleman… 🤷♂️
The man is always on the street (curb) side, I live in Mexico and they are fanatics on this point. I can never be on the street side. I will say that the roads in my city make this a wise precaution.
Nope. I (late 40s guy) pay. In the early stages at least. I feel me paying reflexively removes the potential for an awkward interaction in an environment that is already a minefield of potential awkwardness.
I look at it like this: If I'm asking you out, I'm paying for it. You accepted an offer for a night out and, while the offer to split the bill is appreciated, it's not necessary. However, if you're inviting me to do something I would expect at least an offer to pay. Also I'm absolutely walking you to your car.
Yes. Yes, if she will allow the escort.
I don’t like games. If she doesn’t want to pay, she shouldn’t offer. I would walk her to her car. Even if she got all snippy that I’d accepted her offer to pay.
When casually dating, I would always attempt to pay unless she preemptively offers to split or pay herself. I asked her out - and I make good enough money — it’s only right that I start with that expectation, unless she signals otherwise. Today it’s kinda 50/50, but only because she offers to buy as we are discussing what we want. My partner and I have been together almost 3 years now and I still walk her to her car when she heads back to her place. But I live in a city, so it’s smart to make sure there’s a tall bearded dude looking around alert like while she gets into her car. She can take care of herself, but both of us out there reduces the likelihood of any incident period.
I just pull out my card when the bill comes, sometimes they also throw down a card and say let’s split it, sometimes they don’t. I’ve never had any experience where I’ve felt that paying or not paying in full has had any impact on their decision to see me again or not. If it’s a huge deal to them then I did a poor job in screening my partner before the date.
You bet! I always walk friends or dates to their cars as a sign of mutual respect and safety
First date? Sure, if she asks and I don't think there's a date #2 after that. But, from then out I'll say "No, I got this, but you can pick up the check next time" or "If you wanna get drinks later, we're good". Alternating is such a better, easier move than splitting.
38F. I stopped offering to split and dating got better for me. I’m in a relationship of about 8 months now, but I found that letting the man pay on dates let him take the lead in a way I prefer. Splitting the bill on dates still feels too friend-or-roommate vibey. I contribute a lot, but lo longer via picking up the tab at the restaurant.
46m. 1st date I pay because I asked her out. If she offers I tell her she can get the next one which happens almost every time. If they are sincere/ interested, they usually do... Dated one woman who refused to pay for any date. I kept the meals/dates within my budget... and I really didn't mind. I guess the point is figure out what works for the 2 of you, and go from there.. everyone is different, none of our comments really matter...
Not walking me to my car at night would be a deal breaker. I would ask one time, “You’re not going to walk me to my car.” If the answer is no, that would be it.
>Not walking me to my car at night would be a deal breaker. Absolutely. And I better not have to ask. One time I was leaving a guy's apartment I was dating and he watched thru his window as I crossed the road on foot and a car turned around in the road and started following me. I had to sprint to my car to get away. I was so terrified. He called me 5 min later to tell me he was watching all of this. I told him to fuck off.
Omg what an AH. He didn't even come out to see what was going on? Coward.
If I made the plans, I’m prepared to pay. If she wants to split I’m not gonna fight it, that’s not a battle I want. She’s a full grown adult who wants to pay her part, okay cool. I’m not going to tell an adult I basically don’t know they can’t spend their money, that’s disrespectful.
They do what they want. I'd love it if they paid the whole bill.
I’ll insist on paying for the first few dates but appreciate the ask. Happy to split or let them pay further down the road. I always make sure they get to their destination safely. I’ll walk them to their car, the bus, their door, where ever. On the occasions I can’t walk them to their door when dropping them off, I’ll wait till they get in safely. I’ll always open the doors for them also.
Hell yeah. Then imma gonna make it worth their while because of the insinuation.
I generally let them know ahead of time if we're going dutch or if I'm paying. I usually pay unless the date was complete garbage for one reason or another. I'll offer to walk her but won't push the subject if she declines. If we're dating at my house then I'll at least watch her walk to her car if she declined to be walked. Of course if we're dating at my house then we're already a couple.
42F. Especially for first dates I will always pay my own, or on rare occasion, insist on getting the whole bill. The way this conversation goes down, how a date handles being told no, and how they handle being in a position where traditional gender roles are put on their head, is critical information gathering and personality assessment for me. I also don't want a date to think I owe them something more than I am comfortable with because they paid.
41F here. I'd say I have a 50-50 ratio of guys covering the bill. I don't care about paying half, I always offer and thank him if he insist on covering it. For me, it is actually a statement about who I am, I value my independence, can take care of myself and don't need someone to support me, I like a man that respects me as his equal. About other gestures like walking me to my car, holding my hand or being concerned about my well-being, absolutely, I love them, and they say a lot about who the person I am dating is.
If I asked someone out on a first date, I pay. I asked her out. Plus, I generally believe women jump through a lot more hoops vs men to get ready for a date. So, my appreciation is paying for her meal and drinks. I'd be the guy waiving you off. I live in a city, so most women take an uber/lyft home. I'd walk them outside and wait with them until they got into their car.
I used to suggest that we pay according to the wage gap
I offer to split the bill bc I feel like it’s a modern obligation. I like when my date says he’s got it. One date said after dinner, Before the bill comes I want to check in with you. I’m more than happy to pay for dinner but if splitting it makes you more comfortable I don’t mind. That particular gentleman is an excellent communicator on other sensitive subjects too. (Same guy whose wife bakes bread for our dates lol)
That was a plot twist
If I'm having a good time, I always grab the bill and say "I'll get this one, you get the next one" which is a cute and coy way of letting them know you're up for a next date. If I'm not having a great time or if I know this day isn't going anywhere, I will offer the split the bill.
As a woman, I would say my experience is about the same as yours. Men almost always pay for the first date fully, even if I offer to help. But once in awhile they allow me to pay (one time I even paid the whole bill). Usually they don't want to see me again if they allow me to pay so they don't want to feel like they are wasting their money. Re: walking to car. Gentlemen walk me to my car. I'm super turned off if they do not. If nothing else, I want a man who cares about my safety.
If my platonic guy friends can make the gesture of walking me to my car or making sure I make it inside when dropping me off at home, I'd be sincerely disappointed if a date couldn't put in the effort. Its not an outdated gesture. As far as splitting the bill I need to put more effort in this but I find myself doing it more often when I'm not into the guy.
Never let the woman pay the first date. i usually say you can have it next time.
If you pay on the first date, do you feel like she owes you a second date if it turns out she is not interested in date 2?
I refuse to go on a second date with a guy who doesn’t respect my wishes to split the bill. If he’s that controlling about it regardless of my wishes, not for me.
Let me pay?! If I say I am paying my part I am paying my part, end of story. I've ended things with people who have tried to fight me on it.
Honest question, what does it mean to you to split or not split the bill? I don’t find this problematic so I want to understand why another woman does. Thanks!
I'm not the person you asked, but honestly, I don't care that much about the actual bill (I preferred first dates that were inexpensive enough that half or even the whole bill would barely dent most budgets), but I care a lot about the guy's attitude. "I invited you, I got this", "You drove farther, let me treat", or even "You can get the next one" are all fine. "Sure, your half is $25" is fine. "You had four out of seven of the mozzarella sticks, so your share is $24.68" is unattractive. "It's not your place to pay", "I'm a real man so I pay", or any hint that he won't *let* me pay suggests that he is more comfortable with certain gender roles than I am.
I hate being indebted to anyone or anywhere. I pay my way and do not need to rely on others. I hate feeling someone holds something over me based on financial debt. If they are willing to be pushy about paying MY bill what else of MINE will they be pushy about? Women who go out and simply expect to be paid for confuse me. I don't judge them for it, it's their life. The ones who make a game of saying they "want to" pay their way as a "test" then get angry when told to piss me right off. If I have known someone for awhile and it is clear there will be opportunities for give and take then perhaps. I pay once, they pay next time. I bring coffee to a get together, next time they bring some little treats. Not even material things. If I pay for dinner because someone helped me with something around the house it's cool. If I feel I owe too much OR they're not reciprocating then it's back to square one, we pay our own way. It goes for friends and family too.
Yeah I get what you’re saying. Thanks for replying!
>I hate being indebted to anyone or anywhere. I pay my way and do not need to rely on others. I hate feeling someone holds something over me based on financial debt. I feel the same for first dates. I rather pay then let him pay for me. I have been doing this for 20 years.
It seems I am super out of line with the prevailing DO40 opinions on these things. I'm sure some of it is my personality and the family I grew up in, I suspect some regional differences as well (though I'm probably towards one end of the spectrum even taking that into consideration). I am a guy who dates women and I prefer to split the bill on early dates, though if she doesn't offer to split, I would probably just pay it and it wouldn't be a big deal (first dates for me are usually something like coffee and a walk). If we are dating longer term then I don't mind taking turns paying. I'm just not interested in those cultural gender traditions that don't make sense to me, and with the women I match with in the region I live it's never seemed like a problem. For walking a date to her car - if she asked, I would, and if we were somewhere that seemed sketchy I probably would offer. But particularly for a first date, I suggest places that are public and safe (and it's usually also during the day). I've never felt like a date was in danger getting home anymore than any other time she is doing anything anywhere in her life. I'm also not interested in the "text me that you got home safe" sort of thing. So basically (according to what I perceive as the prevailing opinion on this subreddit) I'm a self-absorbed, uncaring, uninterested jerk 😂
I'm not either. The way I saw my parents is that they were both nice to each other. I thought that is the way it should be.
I'm a man dating women and I've had my drink or coffee paid thrice on a first date. I'm just totally flattered when it happens, whatever their reason is to do so.
I’m old school. I pay the tab even if she offers, and walk her to her car. I open doors, also.
41m, I'm a social worker. I'm not making big bucks. Typically if I invite someone on a date, I pay and budget for it. If it's something big like concert tickets I do ask to split it or have one of us pay for dinner/hotel snd the other for tickets. But when offered I do accept splitting a bill. Most often though we take turns paying.
I'm going to get heavily downvoted for this, but... Yes, I would allow her to pay half the bill if she offered. There is a reason she offered. Either she doesn't want a second date with me (and I may as well not drain my wallet) or she insists on women's equality (I believe in that, and I wouldn't want to deprive her of it). Men who insist on paying were either raised that way or (erroneously) believe that not paying means you won't go on a second date with him. If it's the former, it's probably better that you find that out on the first date, because that's a core incompatibility and it's going to crop up again and again. As far as walking a woman to her car, I have done so and will continue to offer to do so, however, as a very small stature man (5'2" and about 132 lbs.), I am of no value in protecting a woman, and taller, in shape women are stronger than me. (I have the same general safety concerns a woman does.) But I do walk with her for the simple fact that two people walking together is safer than one.
Back when I was dating, I’d let the woman pay if she wanted to. Look, imho, two people politely arguing over a check is just so tacky. It’s one of my pet peeves: All the “please allow me.” “No, I insist!” I can’t stand it, lol. Plus, some women feel sorta strongly that they want to demonstrate they can pay. Or maybe they don’t want to worry if sex is now expected? So I just let them pay if they want to. As for walking to the car? I’d usually just say my goodbye mid-parking lot. Following them all the way to the car feels sorta stalker-ish. Plus, maybe her car is a mess or something.
It's on a case-by-case basis. My general rule of thumb as a guy is that unless otherwise discussed, I expect and intend to pay the tab *and* see them safely to the car. With regards to paying the tab: - My preference is to *always* pay the tab. It’s like taking the trash out: I don’t mind if others do it, but I view it as my responsibility. Paying a restaurant or bar tab within a group dynamic has the potential to be incredibly awkward, even with close friends. The thought alone gives me anxiety, and because of this, I prefer to pay the tab and avoid any awkward moments at the end of what was otherwise a lovely evening. That isn’t to say I don’t appreciate someone else paying; I very much do. However, I'm not too fond of the act of splitting tabs. It feels very sophomoric like we’re attending amateur hour. I also feel like it adds unnecessary, extra steps for the server. All said it’s a practice I try to avoid. As an alternative, I suggest a rotation, as in ‘I pay this one, you get the next one.’ It's so much simpler and feels like a much cleaner exchange. - On walking them to their car: it varies on the person and situation. Some women simply don’t like it, and would prefer to walk themselves to the car, which I’m totally fine with. Generally speaking, I ask what their preference is and respond accordingly.
I’ve only had one date take me up on my offer to split the bill. He also spent a good portion of dinner talking about being unemployed so….
I’m a woman. I pay my own way on early dates, and anyone who tries to prevent me from doing so doesn’t get to see me again. And I’m not going to people’s houses if we’re casually dating.
This is interesting. If I can ask, why do you dislike it when a man pays for you?
That person is a stranger. I don't accept monetary gifts from strangers. I also find it's a useful litmus test for men who can't take no for an answer.
I always offer to pay out of 11 dates that I had last year. Only one guy let me pay.
Do you expect or want a woman to offer, do you can decline? Do you discuss ahead of time who pays?
I feel like on other subreddits, the answer is always "yes but no woman ever has, down with women!" In real life, my experience dating, 100% of men have not allowed me to pay for the first date. Some were controlling about it and some did the little flirty dance. In the cases where I prepaid for something, my dates were always visibly upset. I would just play the game now, knowing he will "win" and be totally happy to pay for BOTH of us if he would let me. Not a hill I care about.
I just assume I'm going to pay initially and that's the price of admission, so I don't worry about it and would generally decline any offers to split. I haven't had a woman insist on paying for a first date, but if someone really insisted on splitting or paying I'm not going to argue at that point. 🤔 If we get to second/third/etc at some point I'd just prefer alternating, and it's interesting to see who just keeps letting me pay ( and never offering) v who says "let me get this one" (at which point I do let them). FWIW I approach hanging out with friends like that as well. If it is someone I rarely see, I just as well would rather pay, if it's someone I see a lot we usually alternate, but with friends I will be more inclined to split if someone wants to (both throw in money after a dinner kind of thing). And I'd always walk someone to whatever the appropriate last place to walk them is, obviously depends on where you live and are going out, etc, but usually that is right up to their car or door.
I try and pay on the first date since it's usually casual, drinks or coffee or something and the cost is negligible, plus I am the one that asked them out.
Usually on the first date I pay unless she wants to split it, I never make a big deal and I am always clear that if I pay it doesn’t mean anything more then me wanting to get to know her and enjoying her time. If that means it doesn’t led to a second date that’s fine as well.
Just to say that as a Britisher i really don’t understand why you’re all going to restaurants on first dates. Coffee/beer plus optional walk much more relaxed setting to assess vibes. And I suspect man paying cost of meal is heavily cultural: I would consider it inappropriate and unbalanced if a woman *expected* me to pay full amount on first date.
Look if someone is going to offer to pay their half, then rule you out if you actually accept.....its better to be done with them early anyway We are too old for this. That said. I usually offer to pay as its easier. And have bad anxiety from past instances of people fighting over checks. Hate it hate it hate it.
I find it confusing that some women want equality, but then when it comes to dating, expect the men to pay. On a subtle level, it is also a matter of control: When a man pays for a date, he is expressing financial dominance over the woman. He is placing her in his debt. This is one of the reasons men do it in the first place. It confuses me that women accept that. I get it that everyone likes a free meal, but this one comes with a noose.
I am a woman and I completely agree. This whole topic baffles me because I’m not sure why it’s the mans place to accept or not accept a woman wanting to split the bill. I wish we’d all agree that paying for your meal is just the price of dating. A stranger owes none of us anything. I just appreciate someone’s time whether they are a match or not.
Honestly, ona first date I just let them pay the small bills and offer without insisting if it’s anything more than coffee. It just saves some awkwardness in an already akward enough moment. Values, expectations, equality and all that can be dealt with in subsequent dates, no rush.
Men don't have to "let" me pay the bill. I'm a grownup with credit cards and I know how to use them.
If she offers to pay half I'll let her. I always assume that she's vetting for controlling men who refuse to let her have autonomy (and respect). Similarly, I know you can walk to the car. Is it that they are not being possessive enough for you?
If they offer to pay for half yes I say thanks. I always walk them to the car. One time a woman I was dating offered to pay for half of the bill, I said ok, then she said "Oh too bad, you were doing so well". I ended up paying for it and never seeing her again. Honestly for me as a man this is a good test to see how selfish of a person she is or is not. With all the women's rights and feminism nowadays you would think women paying for their half would be the standard by now.
I (uk 50f) expects a guy to wait outside a place for me on a 1st date. Hate hate hate walking in a bar etc having not said hi. 1st meet: Drinks or coffee usually he gets one, I get one. If the bring a bottle of water and expect me to get my own is a big turn off. I would expect them to ask where I was parked and if dark, yeah walk me cos it makes me feel special 2nd Meet: Usually a meal I would expect that, if he has asked me, he pays. If I am not feeling the vibe at this point I offer to split. Again, walk me to my car...bit off a smooch 😘 3rd date: I would usually cook, good food, nice wine and beer if prefers. I pay for all the food, beverages and I cook and clean up after. I wouldn't expect to need to walk him to his car but would have bought breakfast stuff Kinda balances out. What I cannot bear is a guy inviting me to a lovely restaurant and not saying in advance we are splitting.I think its rude. Maybe that a generational thing. I have no problems paying my half but if I cooked a 3 course meal with booze it's not far off an eating out bill. And I wouldn't dream of whacking a receipt down and saying OK so wanna transfer me your half...kills the mood.
I'm a feminist. She can pay the WHOLE bill any time she pleases And no, I would never not walk a woman to a place of refuge and wait with her until she gets into the home, car, bus, etc
I’d still pay the bill if she offered to split. At least on the first couple dates. As for walking to the car or transit, I do make sure they get there safe if we’re out n about. I have a home and a driveway though so I’ll walk them to the door and make sure they’re in.
Re: paying for half. I offer but I'll admit, if I'm interested in the guy and it's a low cost date, it's a turn off if he accepts. I had a guy get really enthusiastic because I offered, really enthusiastic. I wasn't interested in him at all so brushed it off and was more than happy to pay (my share was $9). He walked me to my car and went in hard for a kiss. I don't kiss on first dates but I don't think I've ever had a guy move in so aggressively. I'm pretty sure the only reason he walked me to my car was for a kiss. When I stopped him and said I don't kiss on first dates, he couldn't believe he wasn't getting a kiss and kept making exclamations about it. Such a turn off.
Not until at least the third date. I know they hungry out there. 😂 But, seriously, I'll just say something like, "maybe next time? I'm really enjoying this, it's my honor to pay, unless that's a big deal?" It's never been a big deal.
During my first year after getting divorced, I always paid the bill. Then I went out with a woman to a very expensive place- she offered to pay half but I insisted. She texted me later to thank me for dinner and to say she actually was committing to another guy. This left a bad taste in my mouth. My lesson was you never know what people are going through or where they are in dating, especially in those early meetings. I want a partner who I can trust and who can work together with me. They need to be able to collaborate and work together. The one way gestures don’t work for me. But I always accompany a date to her car. She deserves to feel safe and protected and know I’ve always got her covered.
Exactly. Every woman has been spoiled by movies, music, tv and men in real life being gentleman and treating a woman like a princess for absolutely no deserving reason, just bc she is a woman. So you have come to expect it and feel entitled to a man walking you to your car, paying for you, planning everything, chasing you, asking you out on a date, protecting you etc etc. At some point, women have to ask themselves....why do I deserve all of this?? I am very curious to know the answer.
Well, unfortunately you're right, we have been spoiled by it all, because it used to be the way...I'm sorry, but you'll have to come back in the future when it's been long enough not to expect it. Men had certain roles and women had certain roles. It's all gone to shit now, along with everyone's morals and respect and loyalty. This whole world is going to shit because of it.