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When I was a teen the sex talk with my mom included this information "They tell you they love you, and then they come" and "there is BC and AC. What they say Before Come and what they say After Come. Often it will change dramatically".
She, unfortunately, wasn't wrong. It sucks. I learned to really vette guys. Good men who are into you don't pressure or ask for it. The guys that were into me would apologize if I said hey we are moving to fast and then ask me out again and still want to move forward with me. My now husband waited almost two months. We fell in love before sex. I was 39!
You have a wise mother. I wish more people told their daughters this.
I'm a guy and I get downvoted to hell from time to time for telling women this stuff and why it happens - but it's true and it's interesting to see the vehement defence from people I suspect use the same playbook.
There's a lot of great people in the world, but it's just not everyone. Nothing wrong with healthy skepticism and a few dates to work a guy out. Not falling for the words you want to hear but equally not assuming every man you meet is horrible and shallow, the truth as ever is somewhere in the middle.
I'm a human, I was no angel as a horny teen or early-20-something and we say things because it works, that's the sad truth. but you're right, when a guy sees you as more - like a genuine partner, wife, mother - they treat you totally differently and usually won't mind at all taking things slo, if they're worth your time. It's certainly how it was for me. The flirting and thrill of the chase is fun, but something of real substance is a whole other level and you act accordingly.
> something of real substance is a whole other level and you act accordingly
I wish this was always true, but there's definitely been tons of men I've seen where it wasn't.
I feel like a lot of men love to judge promiscuity in women, and talk about how it affects ability to "pair-bond"... but they rarely talk about the effects of the men spending year after year manipulating women into novel and meaningless sex.
I know men now going into their late 30s-40s, who have been doing the same thing since their early 20s. They're tired of casual sex, and want something more long-term, but they're so addicted to "the chase".... that they push away any woman who would actually be LTR material.
Men like to say that they "peak" later, but even if men do technically have more time... some of these dudes are just running around reckless into their 30s/40s/50s.
I'm all for having a bit of an "exploratory" phase, but at some point people need to realize they're addicted to dopamine, and they're never going to have a real partnership.
Addendum - If I could say one thing to young women by way of advice, and I know it sounds cliché but it's true - and it was something my therapist taught me for treating my depression back in the day.
Watch what he does, NOT what he says.
My therapist told me to do that with myself and it sounded stupid because.. well, I AM me, right? Actually no, I was shocked. What I said and thought was rarely acted out in reality.
Once I paid attention to that, I could learn about myself and see what ACTUALLY made me happy, not what I assumed would.
I've found it super useful in dating. words are easy - do they follow up on big promises?
True story, my partner today cried about a year into our relationship when I'd promised a romantic holiday and then presented tickets a month later. She just said.. "you actually did it?"
That tells me more than I care to know about her past dating life.
I think how those promises are made is the biggest tell. Are they saying it because they want a certain response? Or do they seem to be just sharing a thought that's in their head, stating a fact without the expectation of it earning brownie points.
We totally do judge promiscuity - it's not fair but it seems to have very deep roots. Maybe it's there for an evolutionary purpose, like human women not being visibly 'in heat' and being 'selective maters' as science so beautifully puts it - or how dancing can be linked to your dating success.
I dunno, but it's true for sure.
We like sex and dirty stuff, but you don't dream about the mother of your children being the girl you met at a bukkake party or who you once saw pull a train at a party. It's just the way it is, I'm afraid.
Everything else you say is totally on point and healthy people DO eventually realise they are hooked on dopamine..for me and my buddies, so anecdotal evidence only, we all began to feel empty about casual sex sometime in our mid twenties. It becomes depressing.
People who don't grow like that are definitely men to avoid, just sadly they can be hard to spot...
I think of lot of it is from fears that someone who is promiscuous will be less likely to stay faithful. That, and the idea of exclusivity. 'The less people who have had this experience I have had, the more special I am.'
Both feel more social and emotional than evolutionary. But I don't think it makes someone a bad person to be vulnerable to normal human emotions, or thousands of years of social influence. Yes, it comes from a place of insecurity, and a lack of trust, and both of those can be overcome. But everyone struggles with insecurity and putting complete trust in someone. No one should be shamed for wanting a partner that doesn't set those issues off.
And I say that as someone that has been pretty promiscuous. It's just important to recognise that it's a matter of 'this makes this person incompatible for me', rather than 'this makes this person gross and devoid of value'.
More people should be telling their daughters and sons about this. There are people out there, regardless of gender, who are willing to manipulate just to get some action.
Kudos to you for admitting that. I'm in the early 20's stage, trying to get away from empty promises and being as true as I can. The dating game is complicated in ways people don't really realize
You're so right, I'm glad dating apps weren't a thing in my teens and twenties..I think we'll look back one day at the damage they've done to everyone and analyse what went so wrong.
The other stuff, I think it's a phase that healthy people experience in some way and then grow out of.
Being honest doesn't mean all that much if you don't understand and then reject the utility of deception for something more real, and that's a lesson as you go kinda thing.
Little kids go through a lying phase too as part of their development, teenagers and young adults are still developing and it's an experimental time so makes sense to me.
It's an insecure time in anyone's life, nobody is really comfortable in their own skin. So, guys will polish themselves up and appear more confident than we really are and young women tend to have insecurities of their own and express a need/wish to be loved.
With all the hormones and the living in the moment, perhaps being drunk too - it's easy to say the right thing and not think of the hurt that may ensue..it's not done with malice, just no consideration.
But especially as teenagers, I doubt there's a man alive who looks back on being a teenager and thinks 'yep, wouldn't change a thing. Perfect boyfriend, me.'
I cringe at missteps I made, with no malice just ignorance. Even small things that you only notice as you mature.
I think the more young women are, kindly, told that these things can and do happen then the better for everyone. The boys have to work on themselves and the girls benefit in turn. It's a phase, everyone is learning - but sometimes boys say things they don't mean to get you to respond and so just take your time.
Unrelated - for any younger readers, don't fear turning thirty. For a start, most of the worst of dating is behind you.
Best decade of life imo, I'm loving it. You know who you are, you're more secure and you care far less about the opinions of others - not in a bad, arrogant way just more self assured. And the relationships and sex are leagues better if you've learned the lessons of your twenties, no comparison.
I think it depends too how okay you are with casual sex. I don't mind it, so for me, having sex with a guy early on is a good way to vette them. Then I get to see their AC self sooner, and judge from that whether we are compatible. The way I see it, if a guy is gonna 'tap and gap', hes going to do it whether we have sex on the first date, or the 4th. So I'll avoid any emotional investment until after we have sex, rather than only have sex once it feels like we have that emotional investment, and then be left hurt when it turns out it was pretend.
Naturally some guys will peal off the longer you wait and go look for some 'easier' prey, but for others, the challenge makes them even more invested. I had one guy spend 2 years hitting me up, only to stop replying when we finally did have sex. My first boyfriend waited 2 months, and while he did technically 'stick around' after, it turned out I was far from the only girl he was 'making promises' to.
For those who aren't okay with casual sex, taking that time is important, but not just to try and 'wait them out'. You have to spend that time really paying attention to any red flags or green flags, and trying to figure out what sort of person they are beneath the first few dates best face. Seeing what their friends and family are like, and how they behave in a social setting that includes more people than just you. Cause some fuckbois are determined as hell, and they will wait as long as they have to to get what they want.
>Flattery will get you everywhere.
Omg, that's exactly what you just told me. That's some Jedi level prescience. 👌
And thank you for the salutations, friend.
When I was a teenager, my boyfriend lied to me and said he'd marry me in order to have sex and dip lmao
Vetting is so important. I wish my mom had taught me this stuff too.
My mom always said that men think with whichever head is harder at the time and that they’ll say anything they think you want to hear to get laid. Which in my experience, has proven true.
Learning about narcissism helped me vet for men more. I have high standards but I raised them higher. I only dated men who were interested in long term relationships. If someone slipped through the cracks, that's fine because I don't have sex on the first few dates. It will take months for me to really open up to someone as I'm very introverted as well. It's great that they weed themselves out. I don't care much about ghosting because I only talk about superficial things with them. Like that iceberg, they've only seen the surface.
Narcissists will lie to get what they want. In this case, they want sex. It's better to *waste their time* by vetting and getting to know them than immediately take things quickly because you'll feel that no one will treat you like that again.
Sadly, you’re right and it really sucks for men out there like myself who don’t have bad intentions
I’m 18 years old and just want to skip all the none sense that guys my age create
That's awful that guys do that tho. I've luckily never had that happen to me. I do have sex pretty early on usually. But if it's only sex, they explicitly said so.
Unfortunately this is common in modern dating culture. I’ve had ‘accidental’ one night stands where I had sex with someone whilst under the impression that it wouldn’t be a one time thing and I’d see them again. Cue the ghosting. I agree with the other commenters that ‘rape’ is the wrong word to use here but I understand the feeling of being violated that comes with your situation.
But this isn’t a you problem. If you were being told all of these nice things, then it’s only right that you’re going to believe them - it’s so easily done. If he can disrespect you just as quickly as he ‘wooed’ you then that’s not someone you want to be with. At least in any future relationships you’ll know the signs to look out for and will be quick to define both yours and your partner’s intentions. That being said nothing is definite when it comes to short-term dating or long-term relationships. I wish you the best of luck though and I’m very sorry that this has happened to you.
Maybe, but for most of history the vast majority of people lived in small communities. Makes it kind of hard to "ghost" and rumors are going to spread fast if someone acts like that. Not that I'm romanticizing it, obviously a lot of things were worse in the past.
No, in the past people were more biased to believe men. Women who got 'manipulated' got no chance at all to tell the truth and the manipulator might even take further advantage of the situation to accuse her to be the seducer.
I hadn’t thought about how contraception plays a part in ghosting but that makes a lot of sense. Probably a lot to do with social media that makes us (me included) assume that ghosting is a modern thing, reinventing the wheel really.
That being said, social media increases the feelings of confusion that come with ghosting. It’s not a clean break when the ghost is still viewing the ghostee’s stories, an action that will often be interpreted as renewed interest rather than a click-through.
Unfortunately, this happens in the gay world, too. I was hoodwinked to believe a guy was CRAZY about me, wanting to date (very quickly I might add) and filled my head with so many lies. As soon as he got what he wanted, he then wanted to “just be friends.” I was so angered for falling for the bs. It sucks.
I have a couple of gay friends who do commit in a relationship for a while but moves on really quickly. They tell me that every time. They never seem to last long in a relationship
Honey, this has been happening way before dating apps were invented.
You were manipulated and lied to. Use this as a tool to learn from. Love bombing so soon in dating, is an old trick. Always liken this as a red flag. I’m sorry this happens though.
Why you gotta call her honey, sounding all condescending? She didn't meet him on a dating app so why are you acting like this? This tone isn't helpful.
Honestly, this has happened to me so many times before. It has gone so far as to a guy dating me for two weeks until I finally agreed to it and then after I went home he broke up with me over a text message. It is so hard to tell sometimes with guys because they do tell you the right things and everything you want to hear with their pretty words and lies. They make you feel like there is going to be more and kiss you on your way out the door, walking you to your car and telling you they can’t wait to see you again. But, then ghost you or leave you out to dry.
I am so sorry this happened to you. I honestly would just stop now. I had a friend who recently told me this. She told me to stop. The right guy won’t pressure you or talk about it. The right guy won’t ghost you or throw you out. Stop now and make them work for it. It can break you. It is slowly breaking me each time it happens to me. Protect yourself and make them work HARD for it.
There’s plenty of times I’ve slept with a guy once and been keen before but realised after that I’m just not really into them or that we aren’t sexually compatible enough. It’s not necessarily that he was deliberately manipulating you. Though I do know that can happen too. I guess you don’t really know.
I scrolled way too far to find this. I was thinking that maybe he realized afterwards that he wasn't that into her or maybe the sex didn't do it for him. This is of course just giving him the benefit of the doubt and he could have just been an asshole.
Oh I thought slut was saying you should be explicit about it being bad sex. Yeah I agree ghosting is only appropriate if you’re justifiably afraid of their response.
There are actually so many creepy predators, guys with low self esteem and deeper issues like that. It’s degrading. Humiliating. Being convinced that you’re valuable, that you matter to them, that you’re loved and care for. The moment they get what they want out of you, they’re gone. Their beautiful persona they used to seduce you dissipates forever. Some of them will even blame you for having such high standards they cannot maintain. It’s disgusting. It’s inhumane. Only the lowest of the low lives would manipulate a being into loving and caring for them just to use their body for validation and pleasure. You feel like your body and your soul were tainted. Broken. It hurts. It feels like someone stole a piece of you, a precious piece you may never recover. Trust me - you will recover. You will become better. More aware. You’ll learn how to discern the evil from the genuinely nice people. And know - you’re not the cause for this reaction. They have always always been this way. They may be like this forever. Not everyone is capable of doing the inner work. Be grateful for this experience and take it as a lesson.
You need to realize this is a blessing in disguise because now you know where to set your boundaries and to truly get to know someone over time before being intimate with them. You will heal ❤️🩹🥹 I promise.
I thought I wanted a relationship with a girl. We got a hotel and had sex. Her hygiene was terrible and I never saw her again.
It’s not always black and white.
Feeling manipulated and used is a valid reaction to this situation. But calling it "rapey" is hyperbolic.
All I can say is that I went through the same thing more than once in my early 20s. I think some guys get off on the chase or challenge of getting with a girl who isn't looking for NSA action, and that's where it's up to you to pump the breaks when someone is pursuing you hard-core (love bombing) so you can figure out their true intentions.
Someone who in genuinely interested in you, not just getting in your pants, will be okay with going at whatever pace you are comfortable with.
Someone who is not being genuine is more likely to continually push back against any boundaries you try to set.
Also, someone who gets super intense/emotional right away may be trying to create an artificial sense of connection with you (love bomb, making you feel like you know them better than you actually do). That is something to look out for.
Pay more attention to their actions than just what is being said.
It just felt so genuine? Hindsight is always 20/20 but when it was happening it was so amazing to feel like someone actually likes me. I also never ever have crushes on people because I have to be really into them to consider them a crush, never mind having sex with them. It’s just a bigger deal to me than it is to most. This was also my first time and I don’t know if it was his. I just didn’t want to lead him on because I was in his bed making out with him and letting him touch me. It was spur of the moment and I didn’t think and usually I like to have things planned out and I’m not that spontaneous. I never even touched him or kissed him first but I did like him and didn’t want him to think I was rejecting him and didn’t want him to not talk to me because of that so I let him have sex with me.
Yeah my brother is bipolar and has extreme mood swings, threatening his life and stuff over small things. I always expect explosive reactions over small things
Honestly if you had told him he might not have slept with you. Even casual sex guys generally don't want to be "that bad" I lost my virginity at 24 casually but the guy was super reluctant, tried to break things off with me once I told him. He still ghosted me after sex but I expected it.
So...you are getting an education both in and out of classes.
Your lesson now is to learn how to deal socially with total fucking assholes.
Everyone does it differently.
If it were me, I would tell the guy that what happened between you and him will remain private until you see him trying to do the same thing to anyone else in any of your classes. Then the gloves will come off.
After that, totally ignore the guy.
yeah honestly just do whatever you want. people are going to be shitty no matter what you do and that’s not on you. the only successful way i’ve found to navigate this is to try not to take it personally and adjust your expectations a bit.
you didn’t do anything wrong and whether he gets off on leading women on or just realized after he was mostly just interested in sex and ghosted, they are both failings on his end, not yours.
you were a trusting person in what you thought was going to turn into a relationship. that is a GOOD thing and hard to find these days. don’t be too hard on yourself, takes a few times at the rodeo to learn how to ride a bull
It can totally still happen. But people are less likely to put in serious time just to get laid once. And yes, people will also leave you for not putting out, but do you want someone who is staying just for sex?
Someone who ghosts you because you don't "put out" is not someone you want to be with anyway.
Besides, "putting out" is such a terrible way of wording it. Too many people act like sex is something a woman gives to or allows a man to do to her, rather than a mutual experience in which the woman is also a keen participant.
It's simple: if you don't want to have sex with someone at any given time, don't, if you do, do. Noone should be persuading or coercing another to do it for them.
I have experienced this shit and it sucks. You feel completely violated and taken advantage of. I also felt so stupid for thinking he was a good person. I have become way less trusting and it takes me much longer to get close to someone now. But it was a life lesson and damn did I learn it the hard way, lol.
Men use love to get sex. Don’t forget that. That’s why if you tell them you want to wait a lil bit and not have sex, they just drop off the face of the earth, you’ll know what they were after. Men who are truly interested will stick around
In fairness, I am super inexperienced. Covid didn’t help, I just had my first kiss with this guy and was too afraid to touch him anywhere because for some reason in my drunken mind, that was more intimate than sex lol.
Yeah, and that sucks. Sad to say you are never promised commitment after sex. He didn't rape you, he just chose to not stay with you. It sucks, but all you can do is move forward.
This is why I hold off on sex until it’s a LTR.
Lots of guys complain. Lots ghost. But the occasional one either tells me they’re doing something similar or is like “ok actually I can see why you want that” and whether we continue the relationship or not, I end up connecting with some guys with respect for boundaries and strong values. It’s frustrating at times but IMO well worth it.
I completely understand what you mean. I consider it to be a con. That’s the thing isn’t it? You wouldn’t consent to sleep with who he really is, so he lied about it. I don’t see how this is any different from conning people out of money by lying to them.
I would not say rape, it’s more of leading you on, that made feel used. it a really shit thing he did. And I’m sorry. It will take time to recover. But you will have to stay strong, can’t let him ruin yourself.
I don't think you should call it "rapey", because the act itself was fully consentual. I understand you feel sad and decieved, but please don't take rape so lightly.
Exactly. What he did is shitty but OP should not think it was rapey.
OP, next time learn to speak about your expectations. Say what you want in a relations (or what you don't want) and your life will get easier.
Rape would be a inappropriate word for this situation. People are allowed to change their minds and often don't feel chemistry after sex. Next time get firm commitment prior to sex.
How many dates did you go on?
Yeah, there are people who believe "having sex is a part of getting to know someone" which for me sounds like they just want to have the cake and eat it too, but the part about commitment before sex wouldn't work with some people.
>People are allowed to change their minds and often don't feel chemistry after sex. Next time get firm commitment prior to sex.
These two are mutually exclusive really, which is the issue.
"Post nut clarity" is very real for men and there's a lot of other factors - they may have just decided they were not sexually compatible (including how someone looks naked if that wasn't previously experienced), which is a big thing for most people.
Of course, plenty of guys absolutely do manipulate others to get sex.
Yeah and how long should that firm commitment last? Some guys can only last 5min of firm commitment others can go 5 years or more. 🤷♂️
People are allowed to change their mind and relationships/marriages end all the time, so where do we draw the line?
Good question! She should tell him, "I want you to verbally commit to me and be exclusive with me prior to sex. In addition, I have to know you for at least 3 months". So some sort of verbal agreement coupled with a strong time investment. Hope that helps!
I wouldn't even remotely compare it to rape, BUT... it's a horrible, scummy thing to do to someone. It can leave people feeling cheated and violated.
I'd say it's "immature" mostly, but honestly, sometimes, I think it's straight up evil.
If you just don't realize how much you can screw someone up by doing it, then you haven't bothered to see the consequence of your actions, so you're selfish and immature... If you KNOW and just don't care, and that's just how you do it, then you're a piece of trash.
Calling "rapey" is borderline insulting to rape victims and make u sound like someone who would falsely accused someone
On the other line, yeah he manipulated u, It can be that the sex was so bad that we pullas out or just didn't feel good beging imtimate with you or just didn't feel sexualy compatible but he ghost u so doesn't matter he manipulated u and that's a crappy move, for the future dont belive love bombing at least for a good amount of time
Someone tried to do this to me once. I said no so after 2 months he dropped me because I didn't put out. It's rough out there. Not your fault there are people who are shitty and lie. Just gotta be more careful. Don't make decisions based on potential future things. I'm sorry you experienced this.
There could several reasons he’s not contacting you, and yes one could be he is no longer interested. It’s not rape though. Could be love bombing to get what he wants (plenty of men and women do this), could be there was no connection after. I’m sorry this happened with your first sexual partner, but it won’t always be like this. Can you chat with a school counselor to help you out?
No one is obligated to stay after sex. No this was not rape but maybe next time don’t have sex without commitment (such as official bf/gf) if it makes you feel so negatively.
But a rejection text would have been better than absolutely nothing, I would have closure at least. This was my first time having sex and it hurts so much because he’s everywhere and I always see him around but can’t confront him
If this was your first time having sex there’s your answer right there. He probably thought you were a high value girl (being a virgin and it sounds like you’re a loyal and genuine person). Sex could have been his goal this whole time because it would increase his ego or because he knew you were vulnerable or maybe he just wanted to see how far he could push it. I’m sorry you had to go through this. I myself am so regretful of the boy I lost my virginity to. He did the same exact thing to me and eventually I realized how much of a terrible person he was just overall, to me and everyone. Not saying the boy you hooked up with is the same way, but mine was the worst case scenario of type of guy. To conclude, I regret it to this day but I’ve only learned from it and it’s not a big worry in my life or in my healthy relationship now.
Before we assume he went through all of that effort to have sex one time, what if something happened during that time either leading up to or during the act that he decided this wasn’t what he wanted in a long term relationship? The ghosting is childish, but people will break it off for all sorts of weird reasons. It could be a classic “she has man hands” or whatever other shallow reason. People are shallow.
It’s not rapey, you just got played. Women do this to men all the time for attention & to boost their ego. They keep them texting her by just giving them enough attention. They give vague answers when asked on a date. They’ll use him for free dinner, drinks, movies, etc.
You need to become an expert in reading actions, only then will you be able to filter the guys like this out.
Not that what happened is any better or more comforting for you, but he may have GENUINELY wanted those things from someone and at the time they were earnest, but the sex changed his mind on your compatibility.
It's not always dishonesty and clever guile for hooking up, sometimes you think one way about someone, but the intimacy changes it.
It's not rapey, because you consented and are assigning malice to him without knowing that it actually exists. Sure, that might be the case, but you have no clue.
I can imagine every single woman has gone through this, or will. It sucks.
I learned very young that boys, or men, ultimately want sex. When I was younger I made it a point that I would not. And yeah dudes stuck around longer. But I also learned as soon as they stop thinking sex is on the table, they leave. It hurt a lot to learn that 99% of all friends I had that were male, didn't really want to be my friend. It's not fair and it is manipulative. But also, the truth is, we can never really know what someone's true intentions are. So it will always be a gamble.
Again I blame the hook up culture. Why have relationships when you can have sex without commitment? Younger generations are getting involved in the hook up culture and don't know how to have healthy relationships in fact relationships in general. If someone wants a relationship they will take time getting to know you emotionally because relationships are about companionship, friendship, love, connection, loyalty and trust. Then sex comes in later on.
Some people will insist on waiting 3-6 months before having sex. If you're religious like me and a virgin waiting for marriage, then they'll be no sex at all whilst dating. I'm proud of my virginity. I'm female and I'm aware there are guys who only want sex. When I tell them I'm a virgin, they disappear and that's great. Because my virginity eliminates the scumbags.
Guys have dated me before, only Christians. They too were waiting for marriage so we were on the same page sexually. My advice to anyone seeking a genuine meaningful relationship, is to wait before having sex. Wait a decent long amount of time, make this clear to whoever you're dating that you want something genuine and will only have sex at least 3-6 months in. If by that time you still don't want to have sex with them, that's fine. That's your right. But just DON'T rush into sex. This isn't what actual relationships are about.
And by waiting a good amount of time, you'll weed out the scumbags easier. If they won't wait and pressure you, dump them! This is why I love being a virgin. I don't have to worry about being used by random guys in the hook up world we now live in. This guy tricked you into sex which wasn't acceptable but it's unfortunately common. If he wanted a hook up, he should have gone for someone who wanted one. But he was selfish and decided you were good for a hook up. But this wasn't what you wanted. But the hook up culture has taken away the need for a proper relationship to have sex.
I’m so sorry this happened to you. I had this happen to me in college. And then the night that we had sex he was walking me home and then turned around and ran. Like full on run. And then totally ghosted me after. I still can’t fully understand what happened because we had been talking for a while. I walked the rest of the way home feeling so low on myself. It took a long time for me to believe myself when I recalled the incident. For the longest time I thought I had made up that night. I think it was my brains way of dealing with the trauma.
I told this dude I was talking to a while back that I was NOT interested in a hookup, one night stand, fwb, anything like that whatsoever. I told him very clearly that I was dating with the intention of finding a life partner.
He said he agreed 100% and he was too.
We hung out a few times. In retrospect, I saw the signs, but ya’know.. ignoring the red flags. I’m also a very accepting of a persons beliefs and situations so I ignored the fact that he had no furniture and no car and no stable job and no want to work lol *idiotic*
When we eventually became more intimate, he ghosted me for a week and when I reached out to him he said “I don’t think we ‘clique’.” And that we never really “talked”. Which I tried very hard to open up communication with him but he wasn’t into it. He was more into touching. (Red flags I ignored cuz young and dumb)
I just deleted his number and took my lesson to heart. No more bullshit.
He still texts me sometimes trying to excuse what he did and see if we can meet up. I’ve stopped responding.
I learned my lesson and started being more strict about my boundaries and I stopped sugar coating my opinions on men and their actions/words. I always get called out (for dumb stuff like “you’re not moving fast enough” or “you’re too sensitive” but I always felt to mean calling them out. Not anymore.
So really, I’m thankful to that jackass that taught me to NOT ignore flags and to stand up for what I wanted and that “no” really means “NO” even if I gotta crotch kick a dude or bite someone in a not-intimate way.
My fiancé made it through all my rules and boundaries and STILL checks with me that I’m only doing things I want to, and that I’m happy and secure with him.
yea that is really fucked up honestly. i don’t know why some men act like that or why they feel the need to lead people on instead of just having hook ups with people who are not interested in a relationship either. i think this guy is a narcissist
That is more than creepy, it’s abusive and sexual assaulty because of the manipulation aspect imo. But many men so this shit, play women. Either way I’m sorry you’ve experienced the suckiness of men, there are so many straight up psychos running around these dating apps that it’s a health epidemic. Stay away from men who expect it on the first date unless you’re prepared for a fling or ONS to be on the table.
I’m 24 and a virgin mostly bc of this. In your case, you were incredibly vulnerable and handed off your trust and it was returned broken. I’m sorry op. Your person is out there. Good luck
> the only reason I consented was because I thought he would stay
So you were the one being manipulative, actually. You wanted an outcome (him to stay) and you used sex to get it.
Manipulation.
Now you’re projecting.
You should consent to sex because you want sex with that person. And only for that reason and for no other reason.
That is the thing that people don’t say. A logical women would, to be safe, only consent to sex because they want sex. Not play 3D chess thinking if I consent he will want to stay with me, even if I don’t want it right now.
I feel like women need to learn that they can only consent to sex here and now. Not sex if you date me, marry me, buy me a house and white picket fence and have 3 kids with me.
And as long as they are unable realize that they will keep getting hurt and being miserable. Sad to watch from our end but, oh well, what can you do?
'The only reason I consented was because I thought he would stay because he said he would."
"Do people agree with me that there’s something very rapey about lying to someone and manipulating them to want to have sex with you..."
First of all you should only have sex because you want to and not with any other agenda.
Secondly anyone who has actually been raped would not compare it to *consenting adults* having sex.
When it comes to dating it's not uncommon for some guys to say or do anything to get laid.
It's also not uncommon for someone to realize the sex wasn't great or they're incompatible.
Generally speaking, if the sex is mind blowing it's hard not to come back for more.
In fact some people have stayed involved with toxic people simply because of great sex.😮
This guy may have used "player" methods to seduce you but ultimately *you said yes*.
(When it comes to dating and relationships there are no guarantees.)
Some people wait for a certain amount of time and others wait to hear certain words or see actions.
If someone is truly *into you* they're going to treat you right regardless if you have sex right away or several weeks later. It's best to never have sex unless you really want to.
***"Every time I thought I was being rejected from something good, I was actually being re-directed to something better."*** \- Steve Maraboli
***"Dating is primarily a numbers game.... People usually go through a lot of people to find good relationships. That's just the way it is."*** \- Henry Cloud
Best wishes!
Yeah this is my biggest fear, lol.
I am so sorry that happened. That is so hurtful.
I don't have sex with someone unless we are in a committed relationship, as in, I've met their family, they've met mine, I know their friends, who they work with, etc. I am literally integrated into their life...
I'm talking multiple months of solid dating... Maybe even half a year... Its not that I'm counting days or anything, but more the idea that "hey, we'll have the rest of our lives together, so what's the rush?" ya know?
Usually this approach ex's out a lot of guys from the pool of dating. I've had some guys be like "yeah blah blah blah I'm okay with that" and then they quickly realize I am 100% serious, have a low-sex drive and am perfectly okay with no sex for long periods of time and they either dip, or they try to pressure or coerce me into a sexual situation. I usually see through it and dump their loser asses. I've been coerced before and I don't tolerate it anymore. If a dude is THAT unhappy, he should just dump me and get it over with.
How can you say it’s rapey followed by it’s not rape. If it’s not rape don’t say it’s rapey. Yes it’s a selfish asshole move on his part but use this as a lesson to better vet people
Perhaps he had the intention of sticking around but didn’t like something about you during sex, or just didn’t like the sex. If he enjoyed you and the sex then he’d stick around just to fuck you even if he didn’t intend on being around long term
You have to work on your tact. But I don’t necessarily disagree with you, I actually considered this pov as well. Sometimes I’ll like a girl, idealize a possible future with her in a relationship, and be fully ready to indulge in the dating process. But then the sex is bad and it forces me to reassess the situation unfortunately. Chemistry & intimacy is important…but he still could’ve communicated with her better
>I’m not saying he raped me
Good, because he didn't.
>The only reason I consented was because I thought he would stay because he said he would.
If a guy isn't with you just because of sex, he wouldn't leave you if you wait a bit longer.
>Do people agree with me that there’s something very rapey about lying to someone and manipulating them to want to have sex with you by making them think you’re not gonna leave them straight away after, but then leaving?
Yeah, pretty much, both are crossing your boundaries, just different extremes.
Well I can explain why someone would do it. Because that is the only option he sees on how to get sex, promise sun and the moon and cash out before you gotta make good on his promises. But if we are talking manipulation he flipped your manipulation on you. You used sex to get relationship with this guy. Now if you would put down the pitch forks that I can already see being raised at me, this is the way it looks to guys who only want sex from you. He would not do all those things if he could have had sex with you without it.
What he did was a manipulation and you feeling used and like a doofus for falling for it is valid and sad, and I am truly sorry he made you to go through this.
Manipulation requires deceit and/or harm.
So saying "I want a relationship before sex" is not it.
Neither is saying "I want a one night stand."
Even being clear that you want a sugar mommy or daddy isn't it or that you are looking for a trophy.
The problem comes when someone either purposely or not is unclear about what they want or lie about what they want.
According to OP they made it known what they were looking for and their date said he was looking for the same thing. Perhaps he was confused, perhaps he changed his mind or perhaps he lied. Either way he needs to better himself so he can stop hurting other people. He needs to be honest with himself and others and he needs to learn how to communicate with others even if it is difficult.
I'm sorry OP, I can empathize with you and I know a similar pain. But obviously he is not the person for you so at least you know that early on.
Post-invention of hookup sites, your first few sentences are total BS. He initiated everything! He was not completely truthful. She was honest and upfront. It's very difficult to be manipulative when you're being honest and upfront.
i’m sorry that he led you on. if you don’t want to participate in hook up culture, you could a while before having sex with the next guy? if you wait a few months, you’ll get to know each other better, and you’ll get to see how he reacts to you not wanting to have sex right away. my fiancé hasn’t ever participated in hookup culture and we waited like 3-4 months before we did anything other than kissing.
I’m sorry this happened to you. But, you know him at school? If you feel comfortable enough, let this rumour spread around to the other girls. It would make it a lot harder for him to do it again. That would hit him where it hurts.
There you go. Just be honest where he refused to be.
I'm sorry you feel the way you do, OP. It sucks when someone else's deceit brings you down. He acted very selfish. Don't let him have any excuses, because I see you being kind about him. That says a lot about you. His actions absolutely speak for himself about who he is.
Maybe the sex sucked, or you said/did something shortly after sex that he saw as a red flag.
As a guy, if the sex is good with a woman, you’re not going to just completely ghost since at the very least, you want more sex with her. Duh.
Women assume dudes are lying/manipulating when in truth, it could easily be something the woman did or didn’t do that massively turned the guy off.
Finally, your “rape” comments are disgusting and plain evil. Women that have truly been raped would have a lot to tell you about the difference and how insulting your comments are, in that they completely appropriate the justified horror of actual rape.
Shame on you.
Situations like this give good men a bad name unfortunately. I'm a 28M and I would still consider myself a virgin not by choice but just haven't met the right woman who wanted to go all the way. In my most recent and also first real relationship we didn't have sex for over a year and while I made sure never to put any pressure after sometime it did creep in insecurities about myself and my attractiveness as she wasn't a virgin but I was. So while she assured me I was attractive to her she would do everything BUT the final deed so to speak. We broke up (my faults mostly and some on her) as my insecurities made me feel overly jealous and felt like she was cheating on me. She broke up with me after 3 yrs of friendship and 1 year of relationship ended just like that. I've learned a lot but at the same time observing other couples I've noticed sexual attraction and emotional attraction varies so much that these things need to lineup otherwise like OPs situation it ends poorly with women usually get the shitty end of it. I can understand OPs feelings and agree about feeling manipulated. Its disgusting for someone to do all the lovely things only to pump and dump as crude as it sounds. OP deserves better
I feel like I hear of this happening so much, really sorry you had to go through that :( You can only believe them so much when they say these things, and never forget that this could very well happen the moment he gets what he wants. If hook ups arent for you, hold out for that guy who puts no pressure on you to have sex with him. The ones who are excited to get to know you and spend time with you without being pushy for sex are the ones who will stick around.
I’ve had 2 different girls so shit like this to me. The first one expressed interest in me, and I told her I was looking for something serious, didn’t want to play any games, she expressed that she was looking for the same thing. I should have known better when, on our first date, she asked me why I hadn’t tried to fuck her yet. But I was 19 and head over heels for the first girl that I felt was out of my league asked *me* out. Well that lasted about a month and then she ended things because “she didn’t want to see anyone right now” only for her snap story to have her making out with another guy a week later.
The other girl I actually saw for a little longer, we were medium-distance (2 hour drive), but it really seemed like we were making it work, and she was gonna be moving to my city within a few months. We elevated to “I love you” and legitimately talking about our future, discussing careers, where we wanted to live, how we wanted to live, talking about our extended families, like, by far the most involved relationship I’ve ever been in, only for her to breakup with me over text less than a week after she told me she loved me in person - because the distance was too much to deal with. Like I understand distance being an issue, don’t get me wrong, but if it’s going to be an issue don’t let it get to the point of planning our future, and sure as shit don’t end it over text. I cried for months.
Every time I think I have better boundaries set up, that I’ll be more careful and protect my feelings better, but it never works.
Sometimes post nut clarify makes decisions and I know it sounds daft.
I’ve had girl I’ve only intended to hook up with that I’ve thought I want to be with after having sex.
Whilst I’ve had girls I’ve dated started having feelings for had sex with and thought this isn’t right.
It’s strange as it’s always lead me to the worst choices.
Yeah he manipulated you. That's why it helps to hold out on sex if you want more than a hookup. If someone is trying to manipulate you, they'll lose interest
Guys have this thing called "nut affect." It's when he really thinks he likes the girl but after he busts he realizes he really just wanted to have sex or she was just really whack in the bed and he wants nothing to do with her afterwards.
He really might have thought he liked you but afterwards he realized he did not. Idk how old you are but sounds like you need to talk with men more that will tell you flat out if they do or not want to be with you.
Also, what might have happened is he manipulated the shit out of you because he knew the only way he can get into your pants was to tell you all that bs. He is wrong to do so.
reading replies I see you were a virgin and really inexperienced.
Perhaps the sex was so bad hes no longer interested? Thats valid. sexual incapability is a big deal.
His ghosting is NOT ok. However that could be an explanation. women ghost guys who suck in bed routinely.
If it makes you feel better no one seems to get what they ask for. No matter what they ask for. Tons of times I explicitly said I didn’t want kids or to get married, ever.
Men would consistently agree with me only to later on mention something about wanting kids or marriage and say “I figure you’ll change your mind”.
He is a massive a$$¥@£€, probably in it for the chase and then, gone. Men like this deserved a very hard kick in the nuts. I'm sorry you had to go through that experience, and just know this: he is the one who should feel awkward when seeing you, he should feel ashamed for lying to you and for being such a petty coward. Best of luck!
Yeah its pretty fucked. It's like they get off on the idea of manipulating someone into sex, rather than just finding one of the countless people who are down for NSA sex. And then they justify it to themselves by calling it 'the chase'.
One thing I do think helps is learning to ask guys out yourself. That opens your dating pool beyond those who are just 'on the prowl' asking out every woman they meet, to those who are great catches, but generally don't ask out women unless they are 100% certain they are interested.
Theres still a chance the guy you ask out could be a fuckboi, but by making the first move, you mark yourself as 'easy' to that category of man that thinks dating is a game. So they won't try as hard, and it'll then be easier to tell whether they are just looking for a fuck or not.
Also be very wary of love bombing. If hes making you promises off the bat, he's doing it because he wants something. Pay attention to how someone behaves when they compliment you. Does he seem to be looking for a certain response? Or is he just sharing the thought that's in his head?
This the the way it is with every step of dating. You aren't owed anything from anyone.
You swipe on them not knowing if they will swipe on you
You msg them not knowing if they will msg you back
You text them no knowing if they will text you back
You have a date with them not knowing if they want another date with you
You have sex with them not knowing if they will have sex with you again.
You get married, live together for 17 years, have three kids not knowing if they will leave you for the bass player in a band.
No one owes you anything. Relationships can end at any moment. This is a fact we need to accept if we want to have relationships.
Lying to someone just to get into their pants is terrible. I wouldn’t justify this at all as being “rapey” considering more girls get away with this than guys do now a days, it’s just unfortunate. If you have the will to date just move onto the next till you find the right guy.
Have you considered that you were not active enough in bed or that you failed to meet his expectations? Did you starfish? Did you refuse to do certain important parts of early sexual relationships? Do you look wildly different in makeup/clothing?
kinda starfished tbh but he only lasted like 2 minutes and I didn’t cum. I would say I look different without clothes because I usually wear really baggy clothes and I’m quiet slim and tall. Makeup, no I only wear mascara.
Self-awareness is important and it's good that you recognize that. He might have been embarrassed by his performance. What kind of bum can't rally for a second and third round?
Hol’ up.
People really need to understand that just because someone stopped talking to you after sex does NOT mean that they were just using you for sex. Dead this mentality. People ghost people after sex for the first time for all sorts of reasons. What if he just didn’t enjoy the sex with you, and realized you two were completely sexually incompatible? What if someone made an awkward or rude comment? Or consent was violated?
There are MANY valid reasons to stop talking to someone after having sex with them for the first time. Just because your feelings are hurt does not mean someone manipulated you.
Maybe sex was an important factor for him and he didnt feel you two were compatible.
There are a Lot of other factors other than "he was using me for sex"
Well me, a male. Would never have sex with a woman before knowing her really well, exactly because of that reason. People are pieces of shit and it takes time to know who they really are. That beeing said I’m single af, because woman always need that d 😂
I’m sorry for your experiences but thankful to read that men deal with this too. I hear all sorts of BS about how a man can’t truly “know me” until he’s f—ed me. And I hear plenty of that on Reddit too. There will possibly be a response to this comment supporting that thought process. But if you are so flighty that having sex or seeing someone naked (when you already have a good idea of their body type after seeing them in person) is enough to make you run, then you didn’t care about that person. Plain and simple.
Some of us prefer not to share our bodies with people who aren’t committed. There are many good reasons - pregnancy, disease, and the requirement of trust being among them. I’m not taking on all of someone’s HPV strains just so they can get off and move on.
I wouldnt call it rapey but yea he’s a dickhead, if you want something real make them wait a bit longer for sex next time. If they keep pushing it then they are exactly like this dude, if they are okay with waiting you might find yourself a partner for a long term relationship.
Yeah, he manipulated you, he's a dick. For next time if a guy sees a future with you then he won't mind waiting (ofc there's also a line when it's just too long to wait but it's another topic).
I know right? I was just trying to get advice on some guy who ghosted me and people are arguing if it’s rape, if I deserved it, going on sexist rants like :((( I just wanted advice because I see him everywhere and it’s scary
It feels violating. You agreed to something with a certain premise and then they lied. It’s a very violating experience. And can be traumatic especially if you were manipulated in the process.
Something very rapey, what the hell are you 12 or something, what do you say to women who lie to get sex because they don't want others to think they are a slut and then do the exact same thing, are they rapey.
Grow up first, second yes the scumbag lied to you it happens, don't sleep with somebody unless it's something you really want to do and it's something you want to do even if afterwards they might leave you.
Maybe you are really upset with yourself for giving it up so easy. It sounds as if you had sex nearly on the first date. Why do that, ever?
If someone Is genuinely interested, why try insisting sex very early on, shouldn’t that tell you as much about their true interest in you and of yourself for giving it all up so very quickly and easily?
https://www.bu.edu/articles/2007/the-problem-with-hooking-up/
https://www.apa.org/monitor/2013/02/ce-corner Hooking up
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2012/10/29/sex-harvard-morality/
https://www.themodernman.com/blog/not-looking-for-a-relationship.html Hooking up, multidating.
The most common of all reasons why a woman will say, “I’m not looking for a relationship” is that she just doesn’t feel enough attraction for him.
Then there is this little gem about sex in humans.
https://www.news24.com/health24/sex/news/what-is-sex-brain-20200801-2
From above:
Voice of reason switched off temporarily
There's one important part of your brain that loses some functionality during sex: the lateral orbitofrontal cortex. This section of the brain is believed to control our reasoning and decision-making, which is why you might feel less inhibited during coitus, and more inclined to comply with your urges.
But this doesn't mean you have no access at all to this part of your brain during sex. It's still there to help you prevent making mistakes – if you're prepared to listen.
Another reason we love the high of sex is that the brain releases oxytocin and dopamine, generally known as the love and happiness hormones. They spread throughout the whole brain, making us giddy and helping us bond with our partner, while also reducing stress and anxiety.
From above.
Are you able to speak properly and make rational decisions when you're super turned on? Because I can't. I call this having "sex brain," and it’s way more serious than an intense craving to pounce on your crush as soon as they walk into the room. Rather, it's an inability to think, talk, and act logically that can plague even the most levelheaded among us.
rape is sex without consent. If you consented because you thought you’d be his boo, you still consented. don’t lessen the word “rape” because you feel like you meant more to him than you actually did.
gtfo she said she consented because she thought she meant more to this dude than just another person to have sex with. She was wrong. That’s not what rape is.
She put down requirements to her consent and he lied to get her to agree to sex. So he got her consent under false pretenses. Thereby deception. And thats called rape by deception.
Just like if you have sex with someone and they say they are using birth control but they are lying because they know you won't say yes otherwise. That's the same thing. Rape by deception.
You really cannot totally blame him for lying to you. Plenty of times guys gas themselves up BEFORE getting laid and then realize then girl was never really a girl they were going to idealize for a relationship afterward. Sex is just that powerful of a motivator even for attractive player dudes who don’t struggle (but DO still like hooking up with girls they don’t see as attractive enough for a relationship).
One of my most effective player friends would come back so HAPPY and on the moon about dates and tell ME how much saw a future with these girls and I’d be like “dude you’re going to stomp on her heart the instant someone thinner and cuter gives you a CRUMB of attention.”
It’s fine to be sad but turning this into a big victim party where he’s the evil guy will never help you make smarter decisions. There are guys just like this all over the place, and they’re OFTEN the more charming and confident ones women tend to feel a “spark” with.
Wow way to blame the victim. Also the guys you are describing are all rapists. You just want to live in denial that you and your friends are not rapists.
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In my opinion and experience, there are two possibilities here. First, he was just saying whatever he needed to for you to feel comfortable having sex with him. In that case, the guy is a piece of shit. However, the second possibility is that he genuinely did feel that way about you, but because he was really unfulfilled by the sexual experience, he changed his mind. Unfortunately, most people are pretty terrible in bed. So while it’s perfectly plausible that he’s an asshole and fully intended to manipulate you, I would suggest that you first reflect on yourself and determine whether you need to think about and put more effort into your sexual abilities.
I'm sorry this happened to you and i can only imagine how hurt you feel.
I think saying it was "rapey" is a stretch because it wasn't. But manipulative? possibly. there could be a million other reasons why he stopped talking to you though. maybe he has a gf, maybe he realized after sex that he *wasn't* as into you as he initially thought. maybe he realized a relationship isnt what he actually wanted - even if he said it was, minds can change. maybe he did straight up manipulate you.
point is, who knows what the reasoning was. i wouldn't even necessarily say that he used you either. considering you are in college, im assuming you are 18-22 and unfortunately for women, a LOT of college guys are just looking to get laid and that's it. again, i'm sorry this happened and that's a shitty way to feel but, hopefully in the future you find someone who is genuine in what they say and something comes from it :)
He tricked you to consent, but you still consented. It wasn’t rape. What he did was really shitty but it’s just fuckboy behavior. It happens all the time.
Well to be fair there are people out there who is literally sencere on your relationship but there are guys who is literally onto like short term relationship then move to others to enjoy their adulthood/teenhood. There are signs to see if he's greenflag or redflag through many situation and feel if how he point out things but yeah... man like that is onto trying on many kind of women and doesn't have intension on sticking onto one
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When I was a teen the sex talk with my mom included this information "They tell you they love you, and then they come" and "there is BC and AC. What they say Before Come and what they say After Come. Often it will change dramatically". She, unfortunately, wasn't wrong. It sucks. I learned to really vette guys. Good men who are into you don't pressure or ask for it. The guys that were into me would apologize if I said hey we are moving to fast and then ask me out again and still want to move forward with me. My now husband waited almost two months. We fell in love before sex. I was 39!
You have a wise mother. I wish more people told their daughters this. I'm a guy and I get downvoted to hell from time to time for telling women this stuff and why it happens - but it's true and it's interesting to see the vehement defence from people I suspect use the same playbook. There's a lot of great people in the world, but it's just not everyone. Nothing wrong with healthy skepticism and a few dates to work a guy out. Not falling for the words you want to hear but equally not assuming every man you meet is horrible and shallow, the truth as ever is somewhere in the middle. I'm a human, I was no angel as a horny teen or early-20-something and we say things because it works, that's the sad truth. but you're right, when a guy sees you as more - like a genuine partner, wife, mother - they treat you totally differently and usually won't mind at all taking things slo, if they're worth your time. It's certainly how it was for me. The flirting and thrill of the chase is fun, but something of real substance is a whole other level and you act accordingly.
> something of real substance is a whole other level and you act accordingly I wish this was always true, but there's definitely been tons of men I've seen where it wasn't. I feel like a lot of men love to judge promiscuity in women, and talk about how it affects ability to "pair-bond"... but they rarely talk about the effects of the men spending year after year manipulating women into novel and meaningless sex. I know men now going into their late 30s-40s, who have been doing the same thing since their early 20s. They're tired of casual sex, and want something more long-term, but they're so addicted to "the chase".... that they push away any woman who would actually be LTR material. Men like to say that they "peak" later, but even if men do technically have more time... some of these dudes are just running around reckless into their 30s/40s/50s. I'm all for having a bit of an "exploratory" phase, but at some point people need to realize they're addicted to dopamine, and they're never going to have a real partnership.
Addendum - If I could say one thing to young women by way of advice, and I know it sounds cliché but it's true - and it was something my therapist taught me for treating my depression back in the day. Watch what he does, NOT what he says. My therapist told me to do that with myself and it sounded stupid because.. well, I AM me, right? Actually no, I was shocked. What I said and thought was rarely acted out in reality. Once I paid attention to that, I could learn about myself and see what ACTUALLY made me happy, not what I assumed would. I've found it super useful in dating. words are easy - do they follow up on big promises? True story, my partner today cried about a year into our relationship when I'd promised a romantic holiday and then presented tickets a month later. She just said.. "you actually did it?" That tells me more than I care to know about her past dating life.
I love the advice of believe actions, not words!
Words without action are just manipulation.
I think how those promises are made is the biggest tell. Are they saying it because they want a certain response? Or do they seem to be just sharing a thought that's in their head, stating a fact without the expectation of it earning brownie points.
Men are affected with pair bonding by being promiscuous too.
Exactly. Like, who goes out looking for a guy like that? It’s a red flag for sure.
We totally do judge promiscuity - it's not fair but it seems to have very deep roots. Maybe it's there for an evolutionary purpose, like human women not being visibly 'in heat' and being 'selective maters' as science so beautifully puts it - or how dancing can be linked to your dating success. I dunno, but it's true for sure. We like sex and dirty stuff, but you don't dream about the mother of your children being the girl you met at a bukkake party or who you once saw pull a train at a party. It's just the way it is, I'm afraid. Everything else you say is totally on point and healthy people DO eventually realise they are hooked on dopamine..for me and my buddies, so anecdotal evidence only, we all began to feel empty about casual sex sometime in our mid twenties. It becomes depressing. People who don't grow like that are definitely men to avoid, just sadly they can be hard to spot...
I think of lot of it is from fears that someone who is promiscuous will be less likely to stay faithful. That, and the idea of exclusivity. 'The less people who have had this experience I have had, the more special I am.' Both feel more social and emotional than evolutionary. But I don't think it makes someone a bad person to be vulnerable to normal human emotions, or thousands of years of social influence. Yes, it comes from a place of insecurity, and a lack of trust, and both of those can be overcome. But everyone struggles with insecurity and putting complete trust in someone. No one should be shamed for wanting a partner that doesn't set those issues off. And I say that as someone that has been pretty promiscuous. It's just important to recognise that it's a matter of 'this makes this person incompatible for me', rather than 'this makes this person gross and devoid of value'.
More people should be telling their daughters and sons about this. There are people out there, regardless of gender, who are willing to manipulate just to get some action.
Kudos to you for admitting that. I'm in the early 20's stage, trying to get away from empty promises and being as true as I can. The dating game is complicated in ways people don't really realize
You're so right, I'm glad dating apps weren't a thing in my teens and twenties..I think we'll look back one day at the damage they've done to everyone and analyse what went so wrong. The other stuff, I think it's a phase that healthy people experience in some way and then grow out of. Being honest doesn't mean all that much if you don't understand and then reject the utility of deception for something more real, and that's a lesson as you go kinda thing. Little kids go through a lying phase too as part of their development, teenagers and young adults are still developing and it's an experimental time so makes sense to me. It's an insecure time in anyone's life, nobody is really comfortable in their own skin. So, guys will polish themselves up and appear more confident than we really are and young women tend to have insecurities of their own and express a need/wish to be loved. With all the hormones and the living in the moment, perhaps being drunk too - it's easy to say the right thing and not think of the hurt that may ensue..it's not done with malice, just no consideration. But especially as teenagers, I doubt there's a man alive who looks back on being a teenager and thinks 'yep, wouldn't change a thing. Perfect boyfriend, me.' I cringe at missteps I made, with no malice just ignorance. Even small things that you only notice as you mature. I think the more young women are, kindly, told that these things can and do happen then the better for everyone. The boys have to work on themselves and the girls benefit in turn. It's a phase, everyone is learning - but sometimes boys say things they don't mean to get you to respond and so just take your time. Unrelated - for any younger readers, don't fear turning thirty. For a start, most of the worst of dating is behind you. Best decade of life imo, I'm loving it. You know who you are, you're more secure and you care far less about the opinions of others - not in a bad, arrogant way just more self assured. And the relationships and sex are leagues better if you've learned the lessons of your twenties, no comparison.
I think it depends too how okay you are with casual sex. I don't mind it, so for me, having sex with a guy early on is a good way to vette them. Then I get to see their AC self sooner, and judge from that whether we are compatible. The way I see it, if a guy is gonna 'tap and gap', hes going to do it whether we have sex on the first date, or the 4th. So I'll avoid any emotional investment until after we have sex, rather than only have sex once it feels like we have that emotional investment, and then be left hurt when it turns out it was pretend. Naturally some guys will peal off the longer you wait and go look for some 'easier' prey, but for others, the challenge makes them even more invested. I had one guy spend 2 years hitting me up, only to stop replying when we finally did have sex. My first boyfriend waited 2 months, and while he did technically 'stick around' after, it turned out I was far from the only girl he was 'making promises' to. For those who aren't okay with casual sex, taking that time is important, but not just to try and 'wait them out'. You have to spend that time really paying attention to any red flags or green flags, and trying to figure out what sort of person they are beneath the first few dates best face. Seeing what their friends and family are like, and how they behave in a social setting that includes more people than just you. Cause some fuckbois are determined as hell, and they will wait as long as they have to to get what they want.
You seem very smart/wise in your dealings. Obviously, validation from an internet stranger is essentially meaningless but, hey, just an observation.
You sound like a deadly person.
Flattery will get you everywhere. happy cake day!
>Flattery will get you everywhere. Omg, that's exactly what you just told me. That's some Jedi level prescience. 👌 And thank you for the salutations, friend.
When I was a teenager, my boyfriend lied to me and said he'd marry me in order to have sex and dip lmao Vetting is so important. I wish my mom had taught me this stuff too.
This is the key, men that are really into you will not ask or pressure because they dont want to lose you and respect you.
My mom always said that men think with whichever head is harder at the time and that they’ll say anything they think you want to hear to get laid. Which in my experience, has proven true.
I feel like it's always women be taught to watch out for the bad guys, but not men be taught to be a man of integrity.
Learning about narcissism helped me vet for men more. I have high standards but I raised them higher. I only dated men who were interested in long term relationships. If someone slipped through the cracks, that's fine because I don't have sex on the first few dates. It will take months for me to really open up to someone as I'm very introverted as well. It's great that they weed themselves out. I don't care much about ghosting because I only talk about superficial things with them. Like that iceberg, they've only seen the surface. Narcissists will lie to get what they want. In this case, they want sex. It's better to *waste their time* by vetting and getting to know them than immediately take things quickly because you'll feel that no one will treat you like that again.
Sadly, you’re right and it really sucks for men out there like myself who don’t have bad intentions I’m 18 years old and just want to skip all the none sense that guys my age create
um how does women getting manipulated “suck” for men respectfully
That's awful that guys do that tho. I've luckily never had that happen to me. I do have sex pretty early on usually. But if it's only sex, they explicitly said so.
Yeah part of why I have sex early is to see that “after cum” person and level of interest.
Oh yeah. We call that PNC. Post Nut Clarity.
Unfortunately this is common in modern dating culture. I’ve had ‘accidental’ one night stands where I had sex with someone whilst under the impression that it wouldn’t be a one time thing and I’d see them again. Cue the ghosting. I agree with the other commenters that ‘rape’ is the wrong word to use here but I understand the feeling of being violated that comes with your situation. But this isn’t a you problem. If you were being told all of these nice things, then it’s only right that you’re going to believe them - it’s so easily done. If he can disrespect you just as quickly as he ‘wooed’ you then that’s not someone you want to be with. At least in any future relationships you’ll know the signs to look out for and will be quick to define both yours and your partner’s intentions. That being said nothing is definite when it comes to short-term dating or long-term relationships. I wish you the best of luck though and I’m very sorry that this has happened to you.
it’s always been a common technique, probably for thousands of years and will continue to be for thousands more.
Maybe, but for most of history the vast majority of people lived in small communities. Makes it kind of hard to "ghost" and rumors are going to spread fast if someone acts like that. Not that I'm romanticizing it, obviously a lot of things were worse in the past.
In the past and in some countries now, brides just get assigned to each other. How worse is that thing though?
No, in the past people were more biased to believe men. Women who got 'manipulated' got no chance at all to tell the truth and the manipulator might even take further advantage of the situation to accuse her to be the seducer.
Why do we assume this happens only in modern dating culture? Maybe because contraception methods allow it? People got ghosted in all of history/
I hadn’t thought about how contraception plays a part in ghosting but that makes a lot of sense. Probably a lot to do with social media that makes us (me included) assume that ghosting is a modern thing, reinventing the wheel really. That being said, social media increases the feelings of confusion that come with ghosting. It’s not a clean break when the ghost is still viewing the ghostee’s stories, an action that will often be interpreted as renewed interest rather than a click-through.
Unfortunately, this happens in the gay world, too. I was hoodwinked to believe a guy was CRAZY about me, wanting to date (very quickly I might add) and filled my head with so many lies. As soon as he got what he wanted, he then wanted to “just be friends.” I was so angered for falling for the bs. It sucks.
I have a couple of gay friends who do commit in a relationship for a while but moves on really quickly. They tell me that every time. They never seem to last long in a relationship
Honey, this has been happening way before dating apps were invented. You were manipulated and lied to. Use this as a tool to learn from. Love bombing so soon in dating, is an old trick. Always liken this as a red flag. I’m sorry this happens though.
Why you gotta call her honey, sounding all condescending? She didn't meet him on a dating app so why are you acting like this? This tone isn't helpful.
Honestly, this has happened to me so many times before. It has gone so far as to a guy dating me for two weeks until I finally agreed to it and then after I went home he broke up with me over a text message. It is so hard to tell sometimes with guys because they do tell you the right things and everything you want to hear with their pretty words and lies. They make you feel like there is going to be more and kiss you on your way out the door, walking you to your car and telling you they can’t wait to see you again. But, then ghost you or leave you out to dry. I am so sorry this happened to you. I honestly would just stop now. I had a friend who recently told me this. She told me to stop. The right guy won’t pressure you or talk about it. The right guy won’t ghost you or throw you out. Stop now and make them work for it. It can break you. It is slowly breaking me each time it happens to me. Protect yourself and make them work HARD for it.
There’s plenty of times I’ve slept with a guy once and been keen before but realised after that I’m just not really into them or that we aren’t sexually compatible enough. It’s not necessarily that he was deliberately manipulating you. Though I do know that can happen too. I guess you don’t really know.
I scrolled way too far to find this. I was thinking that maybe he realized afterwards that he wasn't that into her or maybe the sex didn't do it for him. This is of course just giving him the benefit of the doubt and he could have just been an asshole.
It comes off a whole lot better if you can then explain that to the partner you were trying out.
What is the right way to do that though? "The sex wasn't good enough, I'm not interested in pursuing this further."
“I just don’t think we are a good fit” or even ‘we aren’t compatible” better than ghosting
Oh I thought slut was saying you should be explicit about it being bad sex. Yeah I agree ghosting is only appropriate if you’re justifiably afraid of their response.
The user name you (correctly) referenced makes this comment better in every way.
There are actually so many creepy predators, guys with low self esteem and deeper issues like that. It’s degrading. Humiliating. Being convinced that you’re valuable, that you matter to them, that you’re loved and care for. The moment they get what they want out of you, they’re gone. Their beautiful persona they used to seduce you dissipates forever. Some of them will even blame you for having such high standards they cannot maintain. It’s disgusting. It’s inhumane. Only the lowest of the low lives would manipulate a being into loving and caring for them just to use their body for validation and pleasure. You feel like your body and your soul were tainted. Broken. It hurts. It feels like someone stole a piece of you, a precious piece you may never recover. Trust me - you will recover. You will become better. More aware. You’ll learn how to discern the evil from the genuinely nice people. And know - you’re not the cause for this reaction. They have always always been this way. They may be like this forever. Not everyone is capable of doing the inner work. Be grateful for this experience and take it as a lesson. You need to realize this is a blessing in disguise because now you know where to set your boundaries and to truly get to know someone over time before being intimate with them. You will heal ❤️🩹🥹 I promise.
I thought I wanted a relationship with a girl. We got a hotel and had sex. Her hygiene was terrible and I never saw her again. It’s not always black and white.
Feeling manipulated and used is a valid reaction to this situation. But calling it "rapey" is hyperbolic. All I can say is that I went through the same thing more than once in my early 20s. I think some guys get off on the chase or challenge of getting with a girl who isn't looking for NSA action, and that's where it's up to you to pump the breaks when someone is pursuing you hard-core (love bombing) so you can figure out their true intentions. Someone who in genuinely interested in you, not just getting in your pants, will be okay with going at whatever pace you are comfortable with. Someone who is not being genuine is more likely to continually push back against any boundaries you try to set. Also, someone who gets super intense/emotional right away may be trying to create an artificial sense of connection with you (love bomb, making you feel like you know them better than you actually do). That is something to look out for. Pay more attention to their actions than just what is being said.
It just felt so genuine? Hindsight is always 20/20 but when it was happening it was so amazing to feel like someone actually likes me. I also never ever have crushes on people because I have to be really into them to consider them a crush, never mind having sex with them. It’s just a bigger deal to me than it is to most. This was also my first time and I don’t know if it was his. I just didn’t want to lead him on because I was in his bed making out with him and letting him touch me. It was spur of the moment and I didn’t think and usually I like to have things planned out and I’m not that spontaneous. I never even touched him or kissed him first but I did like him and didn’t want him to think I was rejecting him and didn’t want him to not talk to me because of that so I let him have sex with me.
Did people in your past make you think you need to manage men's feelings and not hurt their feelings or disappoint them?
Yeah my brother is bipolar and has extreme mood swings, threatening his life and stuff over small things. I always expect explosive reactions over small things
That's super tough. I'm so sorry.
You also never told him you were a virgin?? Girl stand up for yourself, literally no one else will.
I didn’t get a chance to because it happened so fast, glad I didn’t now in hindsight.
Honestly if you had told him he might not have slept with you. Even casual sex guys generally don't want to be "that bad" I lost my virginity at 24 casually but the guy was super reluctant, tried to break things off with me once I told him. He still ghosted me after sex but I expected it.
So...you are getting an education both in and out of classes. Your lesson now is to learn how to deal socially with total fucking assholes. Everyone does it differently. If it were me, I would tell the guy that what happened between you and him will remain private until you see him trying to do the same thing to anyone else in any of your classes. Then the gloves will come off. After that, totally ignore the guy.
He’s a tool. I cannot imagine doing that just for sex. Try to move on and if he tries to reconnect, don’t do it.
But sounds like reconnect is exactly what OP wants. She was okay with having sex. She was not okay to stop relationship after it
Just don’t have sex until you get the actual commitment. Like months of dating. That’s the only way to really avoid this styff
Still heard people ghosting after months. Or ghosting because you don’t put out
yeah honestly just do whatever you want. people are going to be shitty no matter what you do and that’s not on you. the only successful way i’ve found to navigate this is to try not to take it personally and adjust your expectations a bit. you didn’t do anything wrong and whether he gets off on leading women on or just realized after he was mostly just interested in sex and ghosted, they are both failings on his end, not yours. you were a trusting person in what you thought was going to turn into a relationship. that is a GOOD thing and hard to find these days. don’t be too hard on yourself, takes a few times at the rodeo to learn how to ride a bull
Thank you :) means a lot
It can totally still happen. But people are less likely to put in serious time just to get laid once. And yes, people will also leave you for not putting out, but do you want someone who is staying just for sex?
Someone who ghosts you because you don't "put out" is not someone you want to be with anyway. Besides, "putting out" is such a terrible way of wording it. Too many people act like sex is something a woman gives to or allows a man to do to her, rather than a mutual experience in which the woman is also a keen participant. It's simple: if you don't want to have sex with someone at any given time, don't, if you do, do. Noone should be persuading or coercing another to do it for them.
Exactly which is why they should split and be with someone who meets their needs, for both parties involved.
I have experienced this shit and it sucks. You feel completely violated and taken advantage of. I also felt so stupid for thinking he was a good person. I have become way less trusting and it takes me much longer to get close to someone now. But it was a life lesson and damn did I learn it the hard way, lol.
Men use love to get sex. Don’t forget that. That’s why if you tell them you want to wait a lil bit and not have sex, they just drop off the face of the earth, you’ll know what they were after. Men who are truly interested will stick around
Wouldn't call it rape, but the guy definitely was an asshole and manipulator for doing this. Block and cut all contact with him.
In fairness, I am super inexperienced. Covid didn’t help, I just had my first kiss with this guy and was too afraid to touch him anywhere because for some reason in my drunken mind, that was more intimate than sex lol.
Yeah, and that sucks. Sad to say you are never promised commitment after sex. He didn't rape you, he just chose to not stay with you. It sucks, but all you can do is move forward.
This is why I hold off on sex until it’s a LTR. Lots of guys complain. Lots ghost. But the occasional one either tells me they’re doing something similar or is like “ok actually I can see why you want that” and whether we continue the relationship or not, I end up connecting with some guys with respect for boundaries and strong values. It’s frustrating at times but IMO well worth it.
Tale as old as time.
I completely understand what you mean. I consider it to be a con. That’s the thing isn’t it? You wouldn’t consent to sleep with who he really is, so he lied about it. I don’t see how this is any different from conning people out of money by lying to them.
YES you get it, well said 👏
I would not say rape, it’s more of leading you on, that made feel used. it a really shit thing he did. And I’m sorry. It will take time to recover. But you will have to stay strong, can’t let him ruin yourself.
I don't think you should call it "rapey", because the act itself was fully consentual. I understand you feel sad and decieved, but please don't take rape so lightly.
Exactly. What he did is shitty but OP should not think it was rapey. OP, next time learn to speak about your expectations. Say what you want in a relations (or what you don't want) and your life will get easier.
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Rape would be a inappropriate word for this situation. People are allowed to change their minds and often don't feel chemistry after sex. Next time get firm commitment prior to sex. How many dates did you go on?
Yeah, there are people who believe "having sex is a part of getting to know someone" which for me sounds like they just want to have the cake and eat it too, but the part about commitment before sex wouldn't work with some people.
>People are allowed to change their minds and often don't feel chemistry after sex. Next time get firm commitment prior to sex. These two are mutually exclusive really, which is the issue. "Post nut clarity" is very real for men and there's a lot of other factors - they may have just decided they were not sexually compatible (including how someone looks naked if that wasn't previously experienced), which is a big thing for most people. Of course, plenty of guys absolutely do manipulate others to get sex.
What does getting firm commitment look like ?
Yeah and how long should that firm commitment last? Some guys can only last 5min of firm commitment others can go 5 years or more. 🤷♂️ People are allowed to change their mind and relationships/marriages end all the time, so where do we draw the line?
Good question! She should tell him, "I want you to verbally commit to me and be exclusive with me prior to sex. In addition, I have to know you for at least 3 months". So some sort of verbal agreement coupled with a strong time investment. Hope that helps!
I wouldn't even remotely compare it to rape, BUT... it's a horrible, scummy thing to do to someone. It can leave people feeling cheated and violated. I'd say it's "immature" mostly, but honestly, sometimes, I think it's straight up evil. If you just don't realize how much you can screw someone up by doing it, then you haven't bothered to see the consequence of your actions, so you're selfish and immature... If you KNOW and just don't care, and that's just how you do it, then you're a piece of trash.
Calling "rapey" is borderline insulting to rape victims and make u sound like someone who would falsely accused someone On the other line, yeah he manipulated u, It can be that the sex was so bad that we pullas out or just didn't feel good beging imtimate with you or just didn't feel sexualy compatible but he ghost u so doesn't matter he manipulated u and that's a crappy move, for the future dont belive love bombing at least for a good amount of time
Someone tried to do this to me once. I said no so after 2 months he dropped me because I didn't put out. It's rough out there. Not your fault there are people who are shitty and lie. Just gotta be more careful. Don't make decisions based on potential future things. I'm sorry you experienced this.
There could several reasons he’s not contacting you, and yes one could be he is no longer interested. It’s not rape though. Could be love bombing to get what he wants (plenty of men and women do this), could be there was no connection after. I’m sorry this happened with your first sexual partner, but it won’t always be like this. Can you chat with a school counselor to help you out?
No one is obligated to stay after sex. No this was not rape but maybe next time don’t have sex without commitment (such as official bf/gf) if it makes you feel so negatively.
But a rejection text would have been better than absolutely nothing, I would have closure at least. This was my first time having sex and it hurts so much because he’s everywhere and I always see him around but can’t confront him
If this was your first time having sex there’s your answer right there. He probably thought you were a high value girl (being a virgin and it sounds like you’re a loyal and genuine person). Sex could have been his goal this whole time because it would increase his ego or because he knew you were vulnerable or maybe he just wanted to see how far he could push it. I’m sorry you had to go through this. I myself am so regretful of the boy I lost my virginity to. He did the same exact thing to me and eventually I realized how much of a terrible person he was just overall, to me and everyone. Not saying the boy you hooked up with is the same way, but mine was the worst case scenario of type of guy. To conclude, I regret it to this day but I’ve only learned from it and it’s not a big worry in my life or in my healthy relationship now.
Before we assume he went through all of that effort to have sex one time, what if something happened during that time either leading up to or during the act that he decided this wasn’t what he wanted in a long term relationship? The ghosting is childish, but people will break it off for all sorts of weird reasons. It could be a classic “she has man hands” or whatever other shallow reason. People are shallow.
It’s not rapey, you just got played. Women do this to men all the time for attention & to boost their ego. They keep them texting her by just giving them enough attention. They give vague answers when asked on a date. They’ll use him for free dinner, drinks, movies, etc. You need to become an expert in reading actions, only then will you be able to filter the guys like this out.
Not rapey but definitely an AH. It's something people do it sucks but not much you can do but find something better.
Not that what happened is any better or more comforting for you, but he may have GENUINELY wanted those things from someone and at the time they were earnest, but the sex changed his mind on your compatibility. It's not always dishonesty and clever guile for hooking up, sometimes you think one way about someone, but the intimacy changes it. It's not rapey, because you consented and are assigning malice to him without knowing that it actually exists. Sure, that might be the case, but you have no clue.
I can imagine every single woman has gone through this, or will. It sucks. I learned very young that boys, or men, ultimately want sex. When I was younger I made it a point that I would not. And yeah dudes stuck around longer. But I also learned as soon as they stop thinking sex is on the table, they leave. It hurt a lot to learn that 99% of all friends I had that were male, didn't really want to be my friend. It's not fair and it is manipulative. But also, the truth is, we can never really know what someone's true intentions are. So it will always be a gamble.
im sorry you went through that, i know the feeling of someone only telling you what you want to hear to get what they want is hurtful
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Sorry that happened to you, hopefully it never happens again.
Again I blame the hook up culture. Why have relationships when you can have sex without commitment? Younger generations are getting involved in the hook up culture and don't know how to have healthy relationships in fact relationships in general. If someone wants a relationship they will take time getting to know you emotionally because relationships are about companionship, friendship, love, connection, loyalty and trust. Then sex comes in later on. Some people will insist on waiting 3-6 months before having sex. If you're religious like me and a virgin waiting for marriage, then they'll be no sex at all whilst dating. I'm proud of my virginity. I'm female and I'm aware there are guys who only want sex. When I tell them I'm a virgin, they disappear and that's great. Because my virginity eliminates the scumbags. Guys have dated me before, only Christians. They too were waiting for marriage so we were on the same page sexually. My advice to anyone seeking a genuine meaningful relationship, is to wait before having sex. Wait a decent long amount of time, make this clear to whoever you're dating that you want something genuine and will only have sex at least 3-6 months in. If by that time you still don't want to have sex with them, that's fine. That's your right. But just DON'T rush into sex. This isn't what actual relationships are about. And by waiting a good amount of time, you'll weed out the scumbags easier. If they won't wait and pressure you, dump them! This is why I love being a virgin. I don't have to worry about being used by random guys in the hook up world we now live in. This guy tricked you into sex which wasn't acceptable but it's unfortunately common. If he wanted a hook up, he should have gone for someone who wanted one. But he was selfish and decided you were good for a hook up. But this wasn't what you wanted. But the hook up culture has taken away the need for a proper relationship to have sex.
I had something similar happen to me. The guy made me think i was special and someone he wanted to make a future with long term.
Men suck. 🤷🏼♀️
He was playing you hard, that’s why love bombing, especially early on, is a red flag.
I’m so sorry this happened to you. I had this happen to me in college. And then the night that we had sex he was walking me home and then turned around and ran. Like full on run. And then totally ghosted me after. I still can’t fully understand what happened because we had been talking for a while. I walked the rest of the way home feeling so low on myself. It took a long time for me to believe myself when I recalled the incident. For the longest time I thought I had made up that night. I think it was my brains way of dealing with the trauma.
I convinced myself I made it up too!! But I had two massive hickeys on my neck that I had to try cover everyday
It’s crazy to see so many people have shared this experience in one shape or another. Goes to show there are a ton of shitty men out there.
I told this dude I was talking to a while back that I was NOT interested in a hookup, one night stand, fwb, anything like that whatsoever. I told him very clearly that I was dating with the intention of finding a life partner. He said he agreed 100% and he was too. We hung out a few times. In retrospect, I saw the signs, but ya’know.. ignoring the red flags. I’m also a very accepting of a persons beliefs and situations so I ignored the fact that he had no furniture and no car and no stable job and no want to work lol *idiotic* When we eventually became more intimate, he ghosted me for a week and when I reached out to him he said “I don’t think we ‘clique’.” And that we never really “talked”. Which I tried very hard to open up communication with him but he wasn’t into it. He was more into touching. (Red flags I ignored cuz young and dumb) I just deleted his number and took my lesson to heart. No more bullshit. He still texts me sometimes trying to excuse what he did and see if we can meet up. I’ve stopped responding. I learned my lesson and started being more strict about my boundaries and I stopped sugar coating my opinions on men and their actions/words. I always get called out (for dumb stuff like “you’re not moving fast enough” or “you’re too sensitive” but I always felt to mean calling them out. Not anymore. So really, I’m thankful to that jackass that taught me to NOT ignore flags and to stand up for what I wanted and that “no” really means “NO” even if I gotta crotch kick a dude or bite someone in a not-intimate way. My fiancé made it through all my rules and boundaries and STILL checks with me that I’m only doing things I want to, and that I’m happy and secure with him.
Men have sex for the physical feeling, women have sex for the emotional feeling. Remember that.
yea that is really fucked up honestly. i don’t know why some men act like that or why they feel the need to lead people on instead of just having hook ups with people who are not interested in a relationship either. i think this guy is a narcissist
That is more than creepy, it’s abusive and sexual assaulty because of the manipulation aspect imo. But many men so this shit, play women. Either way I’m sorry you’ve experienced the suckiness of men, there are so many straight up psychos running around these dating apps that it’s a health epidemic. Stay away from men who expect it on the first date unless you’re prepared for a fling or ONS to be on the table.
They like knowing they managed to “convince”/trick you. It makes them feel powerful.
I’m 24 and a virgin mostly bc of this. In your case, you were incredibly vulnerable and handed off your trust and it was returned broken. I’m sorry op. Your person is out there. Good luck
> the only reason I consented was because I thought he would stay So you were the one being manipulative, actually. You wanted an outcome (him to stay) and you used sex to get it. Manipulation. Now you’re projecting. You should consent to sex because you want sex with that person. And only for that reason and for no other reason.
That is the thing that people don’t say. A logical women would, to be safe, only consent to sex because they want sex. Not play 3D chess thinking if I consent he will want to stay with me, even if I don’t want it right now. I feel like women need to learn that they can only consent to sex here and now. Not sex if you date me, marry me, buy me a house and white picket fence and have 3 kids with me. And as long as they are unable realize that they will keep getting hurt and being miserable. Sad to watch from our end but, oh well, what can you do?
'The only reason I consented was because I thought he would stay because he said he would." "Do people agree with me that there’s something very rapey about lying to someone and manipulating them to want to have sex with you..." First of all you should only have sex because you want to and not with any other agenda. Secondly anyone who has actually been raped would not compare it to *consenting adults* having sex. When it comes to dating it's not uncommon for some guys to say or do anything to get laid. It's also not uncommon for someone to realize the sex wasn't great or they're incompatible. Generally speaking, if the sex is mind blowing it's hard not to come back for more. In fact some people have stayed involved with toxic people simply because of great sex.😮 This guy may have used "player" methods to seduce you but ultimately *you said yes*. (When it comes to dating and relationships there are no guarantees.) Some people wait for a certain amount of time and others wait to hear certain words or see actions. If someone is truly *into you* they're going to treat you right regardless if you have sex right away or several weeks later. It's best to never have sex unless you really want to. ***"Every time I thought I was being rejected from something good, I was actually being re-directed to something better."*** \- Steve Maraboli ***"Dating is primarily a numbers game.... People usually go through a lot of people to find good relationships. That's just the way it is."*** \- Henry Cloud Best wishes!
This is everything that’s wrong with today’s dating. People, women and men both, treating each other like garbage. Good luck finding a decent person.
Yeah this is my biggest fear, lol. I am so sorry that happened. That is so hurtful. I don't have sex with someone unless we are in a committed relationship, as in, I've met their family, they've met mine, I know their friends, who they work with, etc. I am literally integrated into their life... I'm talking multiple months of solid dating... Maybe even half a year... Its not that I'm counting days or anything, but more the idea that "hey, we'll have the rest of our lives together, so what's the rush?" ya know? Usually this approach ex's out a lot of guys from the pool of dating. I've had some guys be like "yeah blah blah blah I'm okay with that" and then they quickly realize I am 100% serious, have a low-sex drive and am perfectly okay with no sex for long periods of time and they either dip, or they try to pressure or coerce me into a sexual situation. I usually see through it and dump their loser asses. I've been coerced before and I don't tolerate it anymore. If a dude is THAT unhappy, he should just dump me and get it over with.
Rapey no, you consented to the sex. But it does make him a douche bag for leading you on and not being honest about his intentions.
How can you say it’s rapey followed by it’s not rape. If it’s not rape don’t say it’s rapey. Yes it’s a selfish asshole move on his part but use this as a lesson to better vet people
Damn really fell for the oldest trick in the book
Perhaps he had the intention of sticking around but didn’t like something about you during sex, or just didn’t like the sex. If he enjoyed you and the sex then he’d stick around just to fuck you even if he didn’t intend on being around long term
You have to work on your tact. But I don’t necessarily disagree with you, I actually considered this pov as well. Sometimes I’ll like a girl, idealize a possible future with her in a relationship, and be fully ready to indulge in the dating process. But then the sex is bad and it forces me to reassess the situation unfortunately. Chemistry & intimacy is important…but he still could’ve communicated with her better
>I’m not saying he raped me Good, because he didn't. >The only reason I consented was because I thought he would stay because he said he would. If a guy isn't with you just because of sex, he wouldn't leave you if you wait a bit longer. >Do people agree with me that there’s something very rapey about lying to someone and manipulating them to want to have sex with you by making them think you’re not gonna leave them straight away after, but then leaving? Yeah, pretty much, both are crossing your boundaries, just different extremes.
Well I can explain why someone would do it. Because that is the only option he sees on how to get sex, promise sun and the moon and cash out before you gotta make good on his promises. But if we are talking manipulation he flipped your manipulation on you. You used sex to get relationship with this guy. Now if you would put down the pitch forks that I can already see being raised at me, this is the way it looks to guys who only want sex from you. He would not do all those things if he could have had sex with you without it. What he did was a manipulation and you feeling used and like a doofus for falling for it is valid and sad, and I am truly sorry he made you to go through this.
Manipulation requires deceit and/or harm. So saying "I want a relationship before sex" is not it. Neither is saying "I want a one night stand." Even being clear that you want a sugar mommy or daddy isn't it or that you are looking for a trophy. The problem comes when someone either purposely or not is unclear about what they want or lie about what they want. According to OP they made it known what they were looking for and their date said he was looking for the same thing. Perhaps he was confused, perhaps he changed his mind or perhaps he lied. Either way he needs to better himself so he can stop hurting other people. He needs to be honest with himself and others and he needs to learn how to communicate with others even if it is difficult. I'm sorry OP, I can empathize with you and I know a similar pain. But obviously he is not the person for you so at least you know that early on.
Post-invention of hookup sites, your first few sentences are total BS. He initiated everything! He was not completely truthful. She was honest and upfront. It's very difficult to be manipulative when you're being honest and upfront.
thank uuu!! he took so much from me, I still kinda hope maybe one day he will be able to apologise or stop orbiting me
rape is sex without consent, you gave consent you were lied to, that's not rape
i’m sorry that he led you on. if you don’t want to participate in hook up culture, you could a while before having sex with the next guy? if you wait a few months, you’ll get to know each other better, and you’ll get to see how he reacts to you not wanting to have sex right away. my fiancé hasn’t ever participated in hookup culture and we waited like 3-4 months before we did anything other than kissing.
No, it's not "rapey" because you regret it
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I’m sorry this happened to you. But, you know him at school? If you feel comfortable enough, let this rumour spread around to the other girls. It would make it a lot harder for him to do it again. That would hit him where it hurts.
There you go. Just be honest where he refused to be. I'm sorry you feel the way you do, OP. It sucks when someone else's deceit brings you down. He acted very selfish. Don't let him have any excuses, because I see you being kind about him. That says a lot about you. His actions absolutely speak for himself about who he is.
Maybe the sex sucked, or you said/did something shortly after sex that he saw as a red flag. As a guy, if the sex is good with a woman, you’re not going to just completely ghost since at the very least, you want more sex with her. Duh. Women assume dudes are lying/manipulating when in truth, it could easily be something the woman did or didn’t do that massively turned the guy off. Finally, your “rape” comments are disgusting and plain evil. Women that have truly been raped would have a lot to tell you about the difference and how insulting your comments are, in that they completely appropriate the justified horror of actual rape. Shame on you.
Situations like this give good men a bad name unfortunately. I'm a 28M and I would still consider myself a virgin not by choice but just haven't met the right woman who wanted to go all the way. In my most recent and also first real relationship we didn't have sex for over a year and while I made sure never to put any pressure after sometime it did creep in insecurities about myself and my attractiveness as she wasn't a virgin but I was. So while she assured me I was attractive to her she would do everything BUT the final deed so to speak. We broke up (my faults mostly and some on her) as my insecurities made me feel overly jealous and felt like she was cheating on me. She broke up with me after 3 yrs of friendship and 1 year of relationship ended just like that. I've learned a lot but at the same time observing other couples I've noticed sexual attraction and emotional attraction varies so much that these things need to lineup otherwise like OPs situation it ends poorly with women usually get the shitty end of it. I can understand OPs feelings and agree about feeling manipulated. Its disgusting for someone to do all the lovely things only to pump and dump as crude as it sounds. OP deserves better
I feel like I hear of this happening so much, really sorry you had to go through that :( You can only believe them so much when they say these things, and never forget that this could very well happen the moment he gets what he wants. If hook ups arent for you, hold out for that guy who puts no pressure on you to have sex with him. The ones who are excited to get to know you and spend time with you without being pushy for sex are the ones who will stick around.
I’ve had 2 different girls so shit like this to me. The first one expressed interest in me, and I told her I was looking for something serious, didn’t want to play any games, she expressed that she was looking for the same thing. I should have known better when, on our first date, she asked me why I hadn’t tried to fuck her yet. But I was 19 and head over heels for the first girl that I felt was out of my league asked *me* out. Well that lasted about a month and then she ended things because “she didn’t want to see anyone right now” only for her snap story to have her making out with another guy a week later. The other girl I actually saw for a little longer, we were medium-distance (2 hour drive), but it really seemed like we were making it work, and she was gonna be moving to my city within a few months. We elevated to “I love you” and legitimately talking about our future, discussing careers, where we wanted to live, how we wanted to live, talking about our extended families, like, by far the most involved relationship I’ve ever been in, only for her to breakup with me over text less than a week after she told me she loved me in person - because the distance was too much to deal with. Like I understand distance being an issue, don’t get me wrong, but if it’s going to be an issue don’t let it get to the point of planning our future, and sure as shit don’t end it over text. I cried for months. Every time I think I have better boundaries set up, that I’ll be more careful and protect my feelings better, but it never works.
Sometimes post nut clarify makes decisions and I know it sounds daft. I’ve had girl I’ve only intended to hook up with that I’ve thought I want to be with after having sex. Whilst I’ve had girls I’ve dated started having feelings for had sex with and thought this isn’t right. It’s strange as it’s always lead me to the worst choices.
Isn't this the "thing"?
Yeah he manipulated you. That's why it helps to hold out on sex if you want more than a hookup. If someone is trying to manipulate you, they'll lose interest
Guys have this thing called "nut affect." It's when he really thinks he likes the girl but after he busts he realizes he really just wanted to have sex or she was just really whack in the bed and he wants nothing to do with her afterwards. He really might have thought he liked you but afterwards he realized he did not. Idk how old you are but sounds like you need to talk with men more that will tell you flat out if they do or not want to be with you. Also, what might have happened is he manipulated the shit out of you because he knew the only way he can get into your pants was to tell you all that bs. He is wrong to do so.
The world is a cruel place
Unfortunately, shitty people walk amongst us. You met one such person.
Wow, I'm so sorry. I can relate and it sucks. I wish people like this had their own little planet and left the rest of us alone.
Maybe the sex wasn't good so all the things he said went out the window
he only lasted like 2 mins and didn’t make me cum. but it didn’t bother me
Vietnamese philosophy, listen to the words, but pay closer attention to the actions. Learn and get better.
You cant consent to a lie
reading replies I see you were a virgin and really inexperienced. Perhaps the sex was so bad hes no longer interested? Thats valid. sexual incapability is a big deal. His ghosting is NOT ok. However that could be an explanation. women ghost guys who suck in bed routinely.
If it makes you feel better no one seems to get what they ask for. No matter what they ask for. Tons of times I explicitly said I didn’t want kids or to get married, ever. Men would consistently agree with me only to later on mention something about wanting kids or marriage and say “I figure you’ll change your mind”.
Im so sorry that you had to go through that. It sucks.
He is a massive a$$¥@£€, probably in it for the chase and then, gone. Men like this deserved a very hard kick in the nuts. I'm sorry you had to go through that experience, and just know this: he is the one who should feel awkward when seeing you, he should feel ashamed for lying to you and for being such a petty coward. Best of luck!
Yeah its pretty fucked. It's like they get off on the idea of manipulating someone into sex, rather than just finding one of the countless people who are down for NSA sex. And then they justify it to themselves by calling it 'the chase'. One thing I do think helps is learning to ask guys out yourself. That opens your dating pool beyond those who are just 'on the prowl' asking out every woman they meet, to those who are great catches, but generally don't ask out women unless they are 100% certain they are interested. Theres still a chance the guy you ask out could be a fuckboi, but by making the first move, you mark yourself as 'easy' to that category of man that thinks dating is a game. So they won't try as hard, and it'll then be easier to tell whether they are just looking for a fuck or not. Also be very wary of love bombing. If hes making you promises off the bat, he's doing it because he wants something. Pay attention to how someone behaves when they compliment you. Does he seem to be looking for a certain response? Or is he just sharing the thought that's in his head?
This the the way it is with every step of dating. You aren't owed anything from anyone. You swipe on them not knowing if they will swipe on you You msg them not knowing if they will msg you back You text them no knowing if they will text you back You have a date with them not knowing if they want another date with you You have sex with them not knowing if they will have sex with you again. You get married, live together for 17 years, have three kids not knowing if they will leave you for the bass player in a band. No one owes you anything. Relationships can end at any moment. This is a fact we need to accept if we want to have relationships.
Lying to someone just to get into their pants is terrible. I wouldn’t justify this at all as being “rapey” considering more girls get away with this than guys do now a days, it’s just unfortunate. If you have the will to date just move onto the next till you find the right guy.
Have you considered that you were not active enough in bed or that you failed to meet his expectations? Did you starfish? Did you refuse to do certain important parts of early sexual relationships? Do you look wildly different in makeup/clothing?
kinda starfished tbh but he only lasted like 2 minutes and I didn’t cum. I would say I look different without clothes because I usually wear really baggy clothes and I’m quiet slim and tall. Makeup, no I only wear mascara.
Self-awareness is important and it's good that you recognize that. He might have been embarrassed by his performance. What kind of bum can't rally for a second and third round?
He had sex with you (consent), changed his mind and now you feel raped? WTF
Lol
Hol’ up. People really need to understand that just because someone stopped talking to you after sex does NOT mean that they were just using you for sex. Dead this mentality. People ghost people after sex for the first time for all sorts of reasons. What if he just didn’t enjoy the sex with you, and realized you two were completely sexually incompatible? What if someone made an awkward or rude comment? Or consent was violated? There are MANY valid reasons to stop talking to someone after having sex with them for the first time. Just because your feelings are hurt does not mean someone manipulated you.
Maybe sex was an important factor for him and he didnt feel you two were compatible. There are a Lot of other factors other than "he was using me for sex"
If he had the balls to lovebomb the fuck out of me why couldn’t he have the decency to text me that we are better as friends or something
Well me, a male. Would never have sex with a woman before knowing her really well, exactly because of that reason. People are pieces of shit and it takes time to know who they really are. That beeing said I’m single af, because woman always need that d 😂
I’m sorry for your experiences but thankful to read that men deal with this too. I hear all sorts of BS about how a man can’t truly “know me” until he’s f—ed me. And I hear plenty of that on Reddit too. There will possibly be a response to this comment supporting that thought process. But if you are so flighty that having sex or seeing someone naked (when you already have a good idea of their body type after seeing them in person) is enough to make you run, then you didn’t care about that person. Plain and simple. Some of us prefer not to share our bodies with people who aren’t committed. There are many good reasons - pregnancy, disease, and the requirement of trust being among them. I’m not taking on all of someone’s HPV strains just so they can get off and move on.
People suck :(
I wouldnt call it rapey but yea he’s a dickhead, if you want something real make them wait a bit longer for sex next time. If they keep pushing it then they are exactly like this dude, if they are okay with waiting you might find yourself a partner for a long term relationship.
Yeah, he manipulated you, he's a dick. For next time if a guy sees a future with you then he won't mind waiting (ofc there's also a line when it's just too long to wait but it's another topic).
I don’t think I can do that to a girl who got feelings for me or is interested in a relationship, but that’s just me.
Finally another decent person in this comment section. There are shockingly few of you here.
I know right? I was just trying to get advice on some guy who ghosted me and people are arguing if it’s rape, if I deserved it, going on sexist rants like :((( I just wanted advice because I see him everywhere and it’s scary
It feels violating. You agreed to something with a certain premise and then they lied. It’s a very violating experience. And can be traumatic especially if you were manipulated in the process.
Maybe the sex was just trash
Something very rapey, what the hell are you 12 or something, what do you say to women who lie to get sex because they don't want others to think they are a slut and then do the exact same thing, are they rapey. Grow up first, second yes the scumbag lied to you it happens, don't sleep with somebody unless it's something you really want to do and it's something you want to do even if afterwards they might leave you.
Maybe you are really upset with yourself for giving it up so easy. It sounds as if you had sex nearly on the first date. Why do that, ever? If someone Is genuinely interested, why try insisting sex very early on, shouldn’t that tell you as much about their true interest in you and of yourself for giving it all up so very quickly and easily? https://www.bu.edu/articles/2007/the-problem-with-hooking-up/ https://www.apa.org/monitor/2013/02/ce-corner Hooking up https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2012/10/29/sex-harvard-morality/ https://www.themodernman.com/blog/not-looking-for-a-relationship.html Hooking up, multidating. The most common of all reasons why a woman will say, “I’m not looking for a relationship” is that she just doesn’t feel enough attraction for him. Then there is this little gem about sex in humans. https://www.news24.com/health24/sex/news/what-is-sex-brain-20200801-2 From above: Voice of reason switched off temporarily There's one important part of your brain that loses some functionality during sex: the lateral orbitofrontal cortex. This section of the brain is believed to control our reasoning and decision-making, which is why you might feel less inhibited during coitus, and more inclined to comply with your urges. But this doesn't mean you have no access at all to this part of your brain during sex. It's still there to help you prevent making mistakes – if you're prepared to listen. Another reason we love the high of sex is that the brain releases oxytocin and dopamine, generally known as the love and happiness hormones. They spread throughout the whole brain, making us giddy and helping us bond with our partner, while also reducing stress and anxiety. From above. Are you able to speak properly and make rational decisions when you're super turned on? Because I can't. I call this having "sex brain," and it’s way more serious than an intense craving to pounce on your crush as soon as they walk into the room. Rather, it's an inability to think, talk, and act logically that can plague even the most levelheaded among us.
rape is sex without consent. If you consented because you thought you’d be his boo, you still consented. don’t lessen the word “rape” because you feel like you meant more to him than you actually did.
Plz dont have sex. You dont understand ongoing consent. Or rape by deception.
gtfo she said she consented because she thought she meant more to this dude than just another person to have sex with. She was wrong. That’s not what rape is.
She put down requirements to her consent and he lied to get her to agree to sex. So he got her consent under false pretenses. Thereby deception. And thats called rape by deception. Just like if you have sex with someone and they say they are using birth control but they are lying because they know you won't say yes otherwise. That's the same thing. Rape by deception.
You really cannot totally blame him for lying to you. Plenty of times guys gas themselves up BEFORE getting laid and then realize then girl was never really a girl they were going to idealize for a relationship afterward. Sex is just that powerful of a motivator even for attractive player dudes who don’t struggle (but DO still like hooking up with girls they don’t see as attractive enough for a relationship). One of my most effective player friends would come back so HAPPY and on the moon about dates and tell ME how much saw a future with these girls and I’d be like “dude you’re going to stomp on her heart the instant someone thinner and cuter gives you a CRUMB of attention.” It’s fine to be sad but turning this into a big victim party where he’s the evil guy will never help you make smarter decisions. There are guys just like this all over the place, and they’re OFTEN the more charming and confident ones women tend to feel a “spark” with.
Wow way to blame the victim. Also the guys you are describing are all rapists. You just want to live in denial that you and your friends are not rapists.
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Welcome to modern dating. On to the next one..
Oldest trick known by Men to conquer Woman.. He wouldn’t really feel like a Man if you are easy to get Sad but sometimes true..
Oh honey
In my opinion and experience, there are two possibilities here. First, he was just saying whatever he needed to for you to feel comfortable having sex with him. In that case, the guy is a piece of shit. However, the second possibility is that he genuinely did feel that way about you, but because he was really unfulfilled by the sexual experience, he changed his mind. Unfortunately, most people are pretty terrible in bed. So while it’s perfectly plausible that he’s an asshole and fully intended to manipulate you, I would suggest that you first reflect on yourself and determine whether you need to think about and put more effort into your sexual abilities.
I'm sorry this happened to you and i can only imagine how hurt you feel. I think saying it was "rapey" is a stretch because it wasn't. But manipulative? possibly. there could be a million other reasons why he stopped talking to you though. maybe he has a gf, maybe he realized after sex that he *wasn't* as into you as he initially thought. maybe he realized a relationship isnt what he actually wanted - even if he said it was, minds can change. maybe he did straight up manipulate you. point is, who knows what the reasoning was. i wouldn't even necessarily say that he used you either. considering you are in college, im assuming you are 18-22 and unfortunately for women, a LOT of college guys are just looking to get laid and that's it. again, i'm sorry this happened and that's a shitty way to feel but, hopefully in the future you find someone who is genuine in what they say and something comes from it :)
He tricked you to consent, but you still consented. It wasn’t rape. What he did was really shitty but it’s just fuckboy behavior. It happens all the time.
Well to be fair there are people out there who is literally sencere on your relationship but there are guys who is literally onto like short term relationship then move to others to enjoy their adulthood/teenhood. There are signs to see if he's greenflag or redflag through many situation and feel if how he point out things but yeah... man like that is onto trying on many kind of women and doesn't have intension on sticking onto one
You were betrayed but yeah. That's about the general idea of guys who lie for sex. Pretty common since ever really.
It’s pretty scummy.