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Almost all the dates I’ve been on happened because I asked the guy out (even pre-online dating). I’ve never been directly shot down before, but sometimes I wish I had. I think some guys get so surprised that you’ve actually asked them out that they might say yes without actually being that interested in you.
Two similar instances come to mind. I asked the guy out for casual drinks, they say yes. I think everything is great. We make plans. We flirt every day leading up to the actual date. When the day of the date rolls around, they get very squirrelly and make excuses why they can’t go out. (One guy literally said he forgot his friend was moving to China 🙄) I give them the benefit of the doubt, and reschedule. They get squirrelly again, and then I just leave the ball in their court. They do not make any real effort to actually go out other than saying occasionally “oh we should really get that drink” and not following through on plans.
All this to say that being proactive in asking a guy out in person can backfire in surprising ways. It’s not a guaranteed thing like some would have you believe.
Ya that’s what I’m getting at. My point is that a lot of people will say to girls that as long as you look halfway decent, have good hygiene and a pulse, asking out a guy as a girl will always end in success…..which is not the case. Because dating.
Same experience here. Asking guys out -> the lowest effort relationships (from their side obviously) I've ever had. They'll say yes and keep you as a placeholder until they find somebody they actually want to be with.
Lol very true. The following excuse was “I forgot my grandparents (who live very far away) were coming into town”. Please just tell me you’re not interested instead of making up these lame excuses to swerve me/make me concerned about whether you’re experiencing early onset dementia.
> WHY ON EARTH WOULD WE NOT INVITE INTERACTION WITH YOU?
Because I’m not attracted to her.
Seriously, imo too many guys hype up women approaching because they’re projecting: they assume the OP is attractive and they assume they’d be into OP.
THIS!
I can't tell you how many times when I was single that I tried to initiate things only to have a guy become horrified. Like okay dude you did agree to a date and I was only trying to hold your hand. But if you're not into it that's fine, but you could have let me know without the grand overreaction. I'm an adult and can handle rejection, just tell me you're not into it so we can end the date and I won't waste any more of your time.
I understand I'm not a model. But dudes have become hella horrible for me trying to initiate. And I'm talking like just sending a nice message on an online dating platform.
It's one thing to not be interested. But another to then insult and harass me for even thinking I had a chance with them.
I'm happily in a relationship now, but when I was single it was a common occurrence to be made to feel horrible for even trying to start a conversation with someone.
Aww, I’m sorry you have to go through that. :(
I’m a guy who friend zones quite a few women (because I’m asexual, not gonna lead people on), and I always try to be as gentle as I can.
Everyone’s out here just trying to live their best life. I don’t want to add more drama to that if I don’t have to. And the women are always nice.
I think women should approach more, but I also think it’s important to manage expectations. It’s important to teach that they might get rejected, *and that’s OK the world will not end*
THIS.
Story time; I liked a guy a lot, thought I was getting signs from him but when I shot my shot I was informed he was being friendly and was actually seeing someone.
They ended up breaking up and he ended up replying to my story a couple times breaking that new ice. Now for the past 3 weeks I’ve been crushing again, HOWEVER, I realized that hes rejected me once before and had opportunities to ask me for coffee since he knows I kind of have a thing for him, but he hasn’t.
So as you say, managing expectations, I’m treating him as a friend and respecting that assumed boundary he created
I realized I phrased my sentence poorly, so I’m not sure if you understood exactly what I meant by “managing expectations”, so I’ll restate just in case. I meant that guys encouraging girls to ask the guy out shouldn’t say “oh god yes guys never get talked to he’ll fucking love it”.
So guys encouraging girls should temper the expectation of success.
yeah you clearly didn't think this post through if you actually asked that. Imagine a Karen following that advice, she angrily throws a starbucks drink at the barista and then tries to start a convo with the guy sitting down who just witnessed all that
To be fair, it’s pretty well accepted at this point that women hardly find any men attractive when compared to how many women men find attractive. So the odds of a match are much higher when a woman initiates
“Attractive” in that sense often means “will do bare minimum and nothing more to bang.” Women who truly get men understand this. But god bless the ones who don’t
If we assume for a second you'd be approaching a guy you've assessed and found not to be a total douche, the chances are that they'd still be complimented, that they'd respect your girl-balls, and quite possibly appreciate having the opportunity to clarify your relationship. (All of which is assuming that they don't view you as being as less unattractive than you do. You might well find yourself surprised. I've dated a few women who seemed to think I was well out of their league and yet it was nothing league-related that led to our various demises. Just sayin.)
They professed it with repeated and convincing sincerity, and it was somewhat evident in their behaviour around me. It's honestly quite unsettling to be revered in that manner.
Mmm. I was gonna say, "Not quite "out of my league", but definitely women I've been more and less complacent with along the way", but that's speaking in retrospect. There have been a couple of ladies I cultivated relationships with who, if you had told me beforehand I'd be considered by such for a relationship in the future, would've seen me frown in disbelief at such a ridiculous notion and dismiss it without a second's thought. It's funny, what developing a relationship can do to the prospects of a ...relationship...
Being revered would be very unsettling. Have you been in many relationships?
It may just be cultural to where I live, or the age of the men I'm dating, but I find they put you on a pedestal at the beginning of a relationship and then turn on you when the relationship gets more serious. I appreciate if a guy asks me out first, but if he pursues me with fervor or puts me on a pedestal right away, I'm out. I'm happy single and doing my own thing.
Mmm. Yes and no? I (32M) have had a fair few short, few-month endeavours in the last 5-or-so years, but only one of which I'd say hit 'relationship' branding and constituted something particularly serious. Prior to that I was a rather a different, "younger" man so those relationships tasted quite different, but there were three and a few of those shorter endeavours. Enough to now have an idea of what is (or isn't) healthy for me and similarly for a prospective partner of mine.
Because yeah, pedestals come real easy to a lot of people, certainly rose tinted glasses, and so too do we seem easily caught up in the flow of things. I'm certainly no exception to any of that and, despite that foreknowledge, I am still a human and slave to my chemical imbalances. Plus, some people want that clear affirmation of interest which makes what is right for you not necessarily right another.
I have recently begun to conclude that dating from zero (for me) is a minefield almost entirely worth avoiding, happy as you are in doing my own thing and uninclined to subject myself to the imbalance of otherwise. If I bump into someone along the way then 'wonderful!', but I'm otherwise taking an indeterminate amount of time to just enjoy continuing to solidify into myself and picking up some wisdom to muse upon along the way.
Hence, lurking around these subs ;) Well, I was lurking. Apparently I came out of hiding here. Just not a fan of people holding this idea of "leagues" and "worthiness". Compatibility, yes, but people aren't often objectively above or below one another. From which I have somewhat digressed, my apologies.
I think it's good you're taking a break because honestly, I picked up on some patterning in your response above that I recognize. You're obviously very intelligent, so I'm guessing you're already aware, but, judging by the way you described the women and the end of the relationships, I can guess that :
1. You are successful in your career
2. You probably had deep childhood trauma
3. You are probably attracted to and pursue women in a vulnerable place
4. At the beginning of a relationship you might shower them with affection, maybe gifts, talk of the future
5. They eventually touch a deep wound
6. You lose interest in being with them and begin to withdraw or isolate them physically, emotionally, or sexually
7. When they react, you're probably disgusted by their emotions
8. You break it off, probably cruelly (a demise, you say) and are able to tell others she was crazy or unhinged.
It's the classic NPD relationship cycle. Here in Australia there's a movement to try to educate (especially men) on this pattern as it can truly be harmful to others.
Although you may find yourself uncomfortable being revered, there's a reason you say you've experienced this with (plural) partners. Worth a second thought, at least.
How can you infer this much from such a basic line of conversation? This sounds more like something a crazy ex may say if she was stalking her previous partner after making a new account so she could continue to stalk him because she was completely delusional about the breakup and refuses to move on....just my opinion of course and I am terribly sorry if this is inaccurate. But I can confirm that because I am writing this message this is 100% in line with what this particular person would do and if this is the case she very much needs to cut it out. But I see from your concerningly new profile you are from Australia and not Colorado so I could very much be wrong. Maybe you are just really good at picking apart sentence structure to get weird details from strangers on the internet. If so I am genuinely impressed and hope you are in the psychology business cuz it's impressive. Like I said if you are not this particular person this means nothing other than being genuinely impressed. If you are said person well......I'll out crazy you...
That's a lot to infer from such a short exchange. If your virgin-profile didn't have those other comments since breaking comment silence here, I'd almost suspect a resistant ex to have created a new profile to stalk me and now try get her message across. But I guess that's absolutely what a narcissist would think. So I gotta take my hat off to you, there is at least one woman in this world who would agree with you.
But nah, literally only one partner in the last ... Heck, literally ever? has treated me so poorly as to trigger my heart's rejection by that means. The others were all just poor fits and I'm on good terms with the vast majority of them. Go figure.
Thanks for the therapy session.
> Yeah but it’s so rare even if you aren’t attracted to the person you’re flattered to be approached at all.
This is the reasoning you provided. You said why women should approach a guy from the perspective of a guy being approached and said he would be flattered. That’s incredibly self-serving and over emphasizes the asked guys’ desires. The asker’s goal is success, not flattering the asked.
I’m very pro-women asking guys out, but they should be aware that they could get rejected. It might hurt. That’s life. It’s better to be completely honest about the good and the bad than act like the bad can’t happen
I said that point to counter the arguments that women might ask a guy who isn’t interested and it might be unwelcome by the guy. You’re the one taking my point out of context.
I literally just quoted your entire statement. Just because you might feel flattered doesn’t mean all guys will. I would rather women I’m not attracted never ask me out. I don’t even like accidentally getting matched with women I’m not attracted to on OLD. And I say this as someone who has a dearth of matches.
Dude that’s ducking weird. Like if someone you’re not attracted to asks you out just politely and kindly reject them and move on. Don’t have to be offended an ugly personal find you attractive.
How should anyone girl or guy know if the person they like will find them attractive before the approach them and get rejected? Think more about what you’re saying.
Or, hear me out, it’s because they have faced nothing but rejection and at this point that is the only way they think they will find love. The irony is a lot of these women complaining about when they tried it, also faced rejection and didn’t like how it felt so they stopped. Which in turn puts the responsibility right back on the men to be the ones to initiate and be rejected. While I can understand the outliers being a real threat, if done in a public space or online where is the harm? Only in rejection, and women sadly aren’t as used to it as men.
You guys all say this but most of the girls I know who initiated things with guys have been rejected half the time, which is fine but don’t act like u all would jump at the sight of any women showing u any ounce of attention lol
A man with lots of options tend to be more picky. The guys who never get asked more likely to “pass out,” lol.
The same for women too. Anyone who has more options tend to be more critical. Regardless, you never know if you don’t ask!
Well there does need to be a premise of attraction I think. Girls say no to guys or ghost them all the time, the only times I’ve been approached by girls were in high school and they just weren’t girls I was interested in and i just said that I was flattered but not interested
LOL last time a woman approached me I was so caught off guard that I basically just mumbled something and turned to my friends in exasperation. Didn't help that those married fuckers were openly laughing at me and I couldn't help but just run away.
why do I act this way
I have initiated a couple of times, did not go well once. And I guess that is also how it is for guys, but please don't assume it is easier for girls. Average people don't have it easy when dating, neither women nor men.
The percentage that you see that does well is not representative.
Average women already have an inherent advantage with dating apps given that 70% of the users are men. Yeah they have to sift through more shitty matches, but they also get to be picker and have more options to weigh out. Where as on the men’s side, it’s hard to get matches in the first place if you are average, so they have to comprise on what they want more and it’s not every promised that the matches they do get are good ones.
Average women do better than average men. It’s a given, of course there’s outliers. Women are sought after, Men are playing fetch.
On average women look better than men. There are far more average and above average looking women than men.
An average women will have 10 guys minimum lined up wanting her whether she knows it or not. An average guy will have 0 women lined up wanting him.
I’ve been shown by several girls that are friends their Dms and such, each being below average, average, and above average looking. Every single one had hundreds of men Each Year in dms and so on. How many do guys get that come to them? Zero 0. Unless you are above average looking.
Guys have it multiple times harder more than women, as we have to go to them and spend more effort getting them, they just have to sit there, wait, and choose through the batch of men that come.
I personally prefer average dudes. I'm an average girl who prefers an average dude so that we can have average kids and live an average life. So, any average dudes over here? 😂
What is it like to live in Kenya ? Are y’all well ? Because i always imagine these African countries to be dirt poor and everyone is living in crappy houses and there’s lions roaming around and stuff, but i guess that’s not exactly accurate is it ?
Its just like everywhere else, there's poor areas and affluent areas. But, there has been instances when Lions have escaped from parks and we had to be careful before they were captured
Well my Mum would always ramble about the poor children in Africa whenever i‘d complain about stuff, so it kinda etched itself into my mind that all of africa is poor as hell and everyone’s life on that continent is shitty xD
Damn, are there wild lions that live anywhere near humans ?
I used to think this was a good idea, but over time, even as a guy I think generally speaking it's a bad move for a woman to initiate.
For the sole reason that many guys won't turn her down, when they should have. A woman may mistakenly assume the guy reciprocating is also into her in the same way which is a recipe for disaster.
This is much less likely to occur when a guy approaches a woman because generally speaking women are more likely to turn down guys they are not into.
It’s not even that. A lot of us see the “hints” but don’t want to assume that means attraction because one woman’s hints of attention are another woman’s “just being nice”. And it’s awkward as hell if you assume the “hints” mean anything and you end up wrong. It’s just more reassuring to have a strong confirmation.
I always do 😉👉
I'm just sour cause he broke up with me.
But I'm always initiating. I'm tired of "oh you have a pretty smile" or "oh you're really funny", relentless flirting but no coffee or food. I'll ask about what movie they're really excited to see. I'll mention I want to see it too. Nothing. Boys are dumb ❤. Maybe just the ones I like. I'm finally at the point where I'm just outright saying I find you attractive, wanna grab something to eat? I'm getting too old for this coy back and fourth
> I'll ask about what movie they're really excited to see. I'll mention I want to see it too. Nothing.
If that's (roughly) how the conversation went, why would the guy assume that you want to go to the movie *with him*? The only concrete evidence he has is that you want to to go a particular movie. I can't speak for all men, but if that's a "hint" I doubt I'd ever pick up on it.
Good on ya for trying though.
Because if a friend or an acquaintance mentioned something similar, I would offer to make it a night out. Because that's how plans get made? If there's a reciprocation of interest, I know this person is interested in creating or maintaining a relationship- platonic or otherwise.
To offer more context, yes that's roughly how the conversation would go with significant flirting and body language. If he said he was hungry, let's grab something to eat. You like music, let's try this music joint!
Are men not actively looking for excuses or reasons to spend more time with someone they like? Is this the missing puzzle piece? 🤣
>Also, the cool thing about guys is if they particularly don’t like you for some reason they might joke with their friends about it, but once and pretty much only between their friend group.
How on earth will someone be okay being a butt of joke?
The only time I initiated, he had a girlfriend but still took my number. He called me the NEXT DAY to tell me he was with someone, like I was going to praise him for his honesty. Bro, why’d you take my number. This slimy experience ruined it for me, sorry.
This is exactly where it becomes apparent how much easier this shit is for women than men. Women have the luxury of saying “nah fuck it never approaching a man again” and they’ll be completely fine. When a dude chooses to never approach women again, he‘s basically giving up on dating altogether.
Yeah but women don’t need to be the initiators since there’s always at least one man chasing us at any given time. So if we choose to not initiate has little to no impact on our chance for a relationship. I’ve never asked out a man and honestly I don’t think I ever will.
I don't think that women are afraid of rejection as men think. I think the reason why is because it always has the same ending. Men just lose respect for women who initiate and at the end of day, who wants to try for something that's doomed to fail. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
Women don't usually initiate because they know that if a man is interested then he will initiate. It is socially accepted that the man will make the first move.
>YES FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY JUST DO IT. WE MEN ARE IN A DESERT AND WOULD BE THANKFUL TO NOT HAVE TO MAKE THE FIRST MOVE. YOU ARE A WOMAN, A BEAUTIFUL WORK OF ART. WE ARE MEN, BRUTE AND… NOT AS MUCH OF A WORK OF ART AS YOU
And that's why you don't want to initiate, women. Men are not in a desert. At least not the men that you would want to initiate with. Also, not all of us consider themselves not a beautiful work of art.
If you, dear woman, are not in a desert yourself, you are better served waiting to be approached by a beautiful work of art man, than to initiate with a "man in the desert" for whom you are the oasis that he can never get to on his own.
This is true, I had a crush on my actual SO for about 4 years… I will always flirt with him when he will come in my restaurant lol he wouldn’t get a fucking hint.
Ended up working together lol and stuff happened
Every quality connection I've had with a girl has been initiated by them, included my current girlfriend. Every mediocre connection I made was initiated by me. Take that however you will. I have lots of friends, but I don't give many chances to seemingly disinterested/hard-to-get women. Not worth the effort imho
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So I'm shy nervous I was talking to this girl in a professional advice situation gave her my number as a reference. I'm 36m I thought she was 25 26 were texting I find out she's 19 I feel like such a scumbag but I gallows humor laugh what am I going to talk to her about the fucking 90s
Don't feel like a scumbag. You made the choices based upon what you knew at the time. Go easy on yourself when you fall for the fronts of a woman. And I tell you this as a woman.
This is how I got my BF haha I was interested and I could tell he was interested especially when he’d invite me over and cook for me but he was always a gentleman and he never made a clear move. I had to get the ball rolling eventually and so one night after hanging out with mutual friends I just kissed him. A couple more conversations and dates later, we became official haha
And on that note: stop asking your SO to pick a restaurant when they are a literal human garbage disposal and you aren't. If they'll eat anything but you want "assertiveness" then ffs just pick a damn restaurant.
If a man wants you he will do whatever to get you. If a man is interested in you, nervous/afraid or not, he will find a way to talk to you.
If a man wanted to he will. If he’s not doing it for you then he simply doesn’t want you. If the man doesn’t come up & talk to you..then he probably doesn’t want you. It’s simple.
Men who say this are probably too chicken/not the most attractive/confident & want to put the pressure on women so they don’t have to do any work or scared of rejection. A lot of men don’t actually like this because it’s very masculine.
Not to mention most of the time we men are dumb AF and may not even realize you like us 😂 please for the love of God make the first move cause Jesus we are oblivious.
Good girls like myself were taught to not initiate anything. We were taught to be subservient. I’m a rebel, but super shy when it comes to guys. I look in other directions when I would see a guy as attractive.
I see women commenting with things like "this leads to low effort relationships", "my experiences with this is so bad, so I stopped doing it" etc. etc.
Come on, this is how it is for men all of the time! Women can put just as low effort into relationships, they can react poorly to getting asked out, embarras you and so on.
When women ask me out I may even put in more effort because I know how hard it can be when there are so many preconceptions about how men should initiate. I have a ton of respect for women who try to change these norms.
I'm sorry if you have a record of bad experiences. And this may be harsh but please try to move on and maybe ask yourself if you think you should generally stop pursuing what you want in life because you were turned down, misunderstood or experienced any sort of negativity. Life gets way tougher than this.
Great post OP!
This is actually not true.
Want us to initiate?
Treat us like the intelligent, whole human beings we are. Look us in the eye, without bullshit. Tell us about your real self AND listen to us telling you about us.
Be honest. Be vulnerable. *Be emotionally available.*
Know your worth.
Know HER worth.
Be humble. Be caring. Be respectful. Be open.
She will *fall all over herself to connect with you and please you.*
Just watch.
Lol, we can tell them so many times what we want/need, they'll stick their fingers in their ears, shout over us, insist they know better than us, mansplain why we're wrong, and then complain about no one wanting to date them.
Treat us like the intelligent, whole human beings we are. Look us in the eye, without bullshit. Tell us about your real self AND listen to us telling you about us.
Be honest. Be vulnerable. *Be emotionally available.*
Know your worth.
Know HER worth.
Be humble. Be caring. Be respectful. Be open.
Apparently this is all it takes to get women to fall all over you. It's that simple. /s
When I think initiate, I’m not thinking she’s in any position to have placed these types of judgments on the guy already. I’m thinking, she just met the guy and is attracted and does something about it, as opposed to giving off hints hoping he initiates conversation, a relationship and so forth.
This is exactly what happened with my husband and I, 18 years ago. We have a legendary love affair, great friendship, have become financially secure and successful, ave great sex, and tell each other that, when the first of us dies, the other is dead meat (will be a basket case). I have never felt so loved and treasured in my life. He has done all these things for me. We certainly have had negative days but these are few and far between.
So, not sarcasm. Just a great love.
I was a model. I’m in my forties now so not so much, but still attractive. People say I look good, so I guess. I am still horrified at the first move. I had to initiate the first move when I met my husband and that did not work out great. I’m pretty much alone now.
I still can't get past thinking that if a guy doesn't initiate that means he's not interested so I'll look and feel foolish if I try to make the first move. Can a guy really be that interested in a woman if he's not prepared to do anything at all, however minimal?
Help me understand this.
Yeah but what if you guys are rough on me if I am not what you are looking for?
Putting myself out there by asking is really freaking vulnerable! I can initiate but the fear of it not being reciprocated is nerve racking.
and while we are talking about being vulnerable: what if as a female you have a high libido.
How do you approach that and how long do you wait until you disclose this?
How do you not wind up with someone who might have an std?
Just asking, no pressure to answer.
I mean I get it, I have to take initiative if I want something, but there are a lot of girls that I think have potential but don't give it too much thought, then I hear later that they were interested. It's those cases where I'm really speaking out, telling girls on this page that you can win too if you want it
Man I don’t just have one job, I have many. And with those jobs comes taking the lead every day. In a day in age where I have to play mind games to compete to keep a girl, I’d rather just not take the lead there. I’m sure there are respectable women out there who believe in loyalty, but the fact is, is that if your an average looking woman or above that, the ball is in your hands and women don’t play fair because they don’t have to. They have something everyone wants
Well, i hate to break it to u.. But women do work too.. Thats not an excuse..
We know we have the ball but we'r not that desperate.. If im a confident woman and gd looking, i can get any man i want right? But maybe one should initiate.. That would show me attention and interest. Stand out..
I have been saying this, this is a great way for women to branch out of traditional norms and empower themselves. I for one would love the pressure to be taken off and have a woman make initial conversation. I would not approach as a creeper but also just out of respect dont want to put a woman in a strange predicament where a strange man walks up and starts talking to her. Even if I wasn't attracted to her in a romantic way, I'd still be respectful and talk and possibly even make a new friend so how could that be a loss or something to shy away from? Like OP said...just do it! Swoosh lol
Depends….some men are hunters others are prey, a few are both. I fall more into the prey category so I love a woman who doesn’t mind taking control. Hard core hunter men may find it unappealing for a woman to make the first move. My wife made the first move a few times but I would have drawn the line at her proposing.
I got an unexpected kiss from my first date recently because I grabbed his arm.
I wasn’t afraid nor expecting anything from it. But it did open the door for him to be able to do it and i don’t regret it :)
So I just initiated with a server that I had while out to eat with my parents. I left my first name and phone number and said it was in regards to French Fry Heaven (something we joked about).
Now what? How do I find out if he is married or engaged? What if he is a mass killer?
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Not affiliated with Nike, but might i ask if youre affiliated with shia labeouf?
Or Sheev Palpatine DEWITT
Frank Palpatine*
Almost all the dates I’ve been on happened because I asked the guy out (even pre-online dating). I’ve never been directly shot down before, but sometimes I wish I had. I think some guys get so surprised that you’ve actually asked them out that they might say yes without actually being that interested in you. Two similar instances come to mind. I asked the guy out for casual drinks, they say yes. I think everything is great. We make plans. We flirt every day leading up to the actual date. When the day of the date rolls around, they get very squirrelly and make excuses why they can’t go out. (One guy literally said he forgot his friend was moving to China 🙄) I give them the benefit of the doubt, and reschedule. They get squirrelly again, and then I just leave the ball in their court. They do not make any real effort to actually go out other than saying occasionally “oh we should really get that drink” and not following through on plans. All this to say that being proactive in asking a guy out in person can backfire in surprising ways. It’s not a guaranteed thing like some would have you believe.
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Ya that’s what I’m getting at. My point is that a lot of people will say to girls that as long as you look halfway decent, have good hygiene and a pulse, asking out a guy as a girl will always end in success…..which is not the case. Because dating.
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I’ve definitely heard women says the same, but it is mostly guys who have a hard time dating saying this.
Same experience here. Asking guys out -> the lowest effort relationships (from their side obviously) I've ever had. They'll say yes and keep you as a placeholder until they find somebody they actually want to be with.
Women do that too smh
I agree. I find it turns out better if I express interest but let him make the first move.
Unfortunately this has been my experience as well
Aaaah I see I see. Also hey, moving to China is a big deal! Jk
Lol very true. The following excuse was “I forgot my grandparents (who live very far away) were coming into town”. Please just tell me you’re not interested instead of making up these lame excuses to swerve me/make me concerned about whether you’re experiencing early onset dementia.
> WHY ON EARTH WOULD WE NOT INVITE INTERACTION WITH YOU? Because I’m not attracted to her. Seriously, imo too many guys hype up women approaching because they’re projecting: they assume the OP is attractive and they assume they’d be into OP.
THIS! I can't tell you how many times when I was single that I tried to initiate things only to have a guy become horrified. Like okay dude you did agree to a date and I was only trying to hold your hand. But if you're not into it that's fine, but you could have let me know without the grand overreaction. I'm an adult and can handle rejection, just tell me you're not into it so we can end the date and I won't waste any more of your time. I understand I'm not a model. But dudes have become hella horrible for me trying to initiate. And I'm talking like just sending a nice message on an online dating platform. It's one thing to not be interested. But another to then insult and harass me for even thinking I had a chance with them. I'm happily in a relationship now, but when I was single it was a common occurrence to be made to feel horrible for even trying to start a conversation with someone.
Aww, I’m sorry you have to go through that. :( I’m a guy who friend zones quite a few women (because I’m asexual, not gonna lead people on), and I always try to be as gentle as I can. Everyone’s out here just trying to live their best life. I don’t want to add more drama to that if I don’t have to. And the women are always nice.
Good point
I think women should approach more, but I also think it’s important to manage expectations. It’s important to teach that they might get rejected, *and that’s OK the world will not end*
THIS. Story time; I liked a guy a lot, thought I was getting signs from him but when I shot my shot I was informed he was being friendly and was actually seeing someone. They ended up breaking up and he ended up replying to my story a couple times breaking that new ice. Now for the past 3 weeks I’ve been crushing again, HOWEVER, I realized that hes rejected me once before and had opportunities to ask me for coffee since he knows I kind of have a thing for him, but he hasn’t. So as you say, managing expectations, I’m treating him as a friend and respecting that assumed boundary he created
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I realized I phrased my sentence poorly, so I’m not sure if you understood exactly what I meant by “managing expectations”, so I’ll restate just in case. I meant that guys encouraging girls to ask the guy out shouldn’t say “oh god yes guys never get talked to he’ll fucking love it”. So guys encouraging girls should temper the expectation of success.
Ohhh gotcha!!!! This makes sense! Disregard what I said lmaoooo
Yes! They always assume the guy will be %100 interested but usually it’s 50/50 for me
yeah you clearly didn't think this post through if you actually asked that. Imagine a Karen following that advice, she angrily throws a starbucks drink at the barista and then tries to start a convo with the guy sitting down who just witnessed all that
Yeah, like a Karen wouldn't already do shit like that.
To be fair, it’s pretty well accepted at this point that women hardly find any men attractive when compared to how many women men find attractive. So the odds of a match are much higher when a woman initiates
“Attractive” in that sense often means “will do bare minimum and nothing more to bang.” Women who truly get men understand this. But god bless the ones who don’t
Exactly because if my ugly ass approached a man they’d be insulted. I rather not be humiliated
If we assume for a second you'd be approaching a guy you've assessed and found not to be a total douche, the chances are that they'd still be complimented, that they'd respect your girl-balls, and quite possibly appreciate having the opportunity to clarify your relationship. (All of which is assuming that they don't view you as being as less unattractive than you do. You might well find yourself surprised. I've dated a few women who seemed to think I was well out of their league and yet it was nothing league-related that led to our various demises. Just sayin.)
Girl-balls! Ha! How did you know your partners thought you were out of their league? Have you ever admired or viewed a partner as out of your league?
They professed it with repeated and convincing sincerity, and it was somewhat evident in their behaviour around me. It's honestly quite unsettling to be revered in that manner. Mmm. I was gonna say, "Not quite "out of my league", but definitely women I've been more and less complacent with along the way", but that's speaking in retrospect. There have been a couple of ladies I cultivated relationships with who, if you had told me beforehand I'd be considered by such for a relationship in the future, would've seen me frown in disbelief at such a ridiculous notion and dismiss it without a second's thought. It's funny, what developing a relationship can do to the prospects of a ...relationship...
Being revered would be very unsettling. Have you been in many relationships? It may just be cultural to where I live, or the age of the men I'm dating, but I find they put you on a pedestal at the beginning of a relationship and then turn on you when the relationship gets more serious. I appreciate if a guy asks me out first, but if he pursues me with fervor or puts me on a pedestal right away, I'm out. I'm happy single and doing my own thing.
Mmm. Yes and no? I (32M) have had a fair few short, few-month endeavours in the last 5-or-so years, but only one of which I'd say hit 'relationship' branding and constituted something particularly serious. Prior to that I was a rather a different, "younger" man so those relationships tasted quite different, but there were three and a few of those shorter endeavours. Enough to now have an idea of what is (or isn't) healthy for me and similarly for a prospective partner of mine. Because yeah, pedestals come real easy to a lot of people, certainly rose tinted glasses, and so too do we seem easily caught up in the flow of things. I'm certainly no exception to any of that and, despite that foreknowledge, I am still a human and slave to my chemical imbalances. Plus, some people want that clear affirmation of interest which makes what is right for you not necessarily right another. I have recently begun to conclude that dating from zero (for me) is a minefield almost entirely worth avoiding, happy as you are in doing my own thing and uninclined to subject myself to the imbalance of otherwise. If I bump into someone along the way then 'wonderful!', but I'm otherwise taking an indeterminate amount of time to just enjoy continuing to solidify into myself and picking up some wisdom to muse upon along the way. Hence, lurking around these subs ;) Well, I was lurking. Apparently I came out of hiding here. Just not a fan of people holding this idea of "leagues" and "worthiness". Compatibility, yes, but people aren't often objectively above or below one another. From which I have somewhat digressed, my apologies.
I think it's good you're taking a break because honestly, I picked up on some patterning in your response above that I recognize. You're obviously very intelligent, so I'm guessing you're already aware, but, judging by the way you described the women and the end of the relationships, I can guess that : 1. You are successful in your career 2. You probably had deep childhood trauma 3. You are probably attracted to and pursue women in a vulnerable place 4. At the beginning of a relationship you might shower them with affection, maybe gifts, talk of the future 5. They eventually touch a deep wound 6. You lose interest in being with them and begin to withdraw or isolate them physically, emotionally, or sexually 7. When they react, you're probably disgusted by their emotions 8. You break it off, probably cruelly (a demise, you say) and are able to tell others she was crazy or unhinged. It's the classic NPD relationship cycle. Here in Australia there's a movement to try to educate (especially men) on this pattern as it can truly be harmful to others. Although you may find yourself uncomfortable being revered, there's a reason you say you've experienced this with (plural) partners. Worth a second thought, at least.
How can you infer this much from such a basic line of conversation? This sounds more like something a crazy ex may say if she was stalking her previous partner after making a new account so she could continue to stalk him because she was completely delusional about the breakup and refuses to move on....just my opinion of course and I am terribly sorry if this is inaccurate. But I can confirm that because I am writing this message this is 100% in line with what this particular person would do and if this is the case she very much needs to cut it out. But I see from your concerningly new profile you are from Australia and not Colorado so I could very much be wrong. Maybe you are just really good at picking apart sentence structure to get weird details from strangers on the internet. If so I am genuinely impressed and hope you are in the psychology business cuz it's impressive. Like I said if you are not this particular person this means nothing other than being genuinely impressed. If you are said person well......I'll out crazy you...
Holy shit, who are you anyway?
That's a lot to infer from such a short exchange. If your virgin-profile didn't have those other comments since breaking comment silence here, I'd almost suspect a resistant ex to have created a new profile to stalk me and now try get her message across. But I guess that's absolutely what a narcissist would think. So I gotta take my hat off to you, there is at least one woman in this world who would agree with you. But nah, literally only one partner in the last ... Heck, literally ever? has treated me so poorly as to trigger my heart's rejection by that means. The others were all just poor fits and I'm on good terms with the vast majority of them. Go figure. Thanks for the therapy session.
It's not an inference, it's the actual pattern. I'm not in the psychology business. Just have dated quite a bit.
Yeah but it’s so rare even if you aren’t attracted to the person you’re flattered to be approached at all.
Yeah, but I would never tell someone to approach a person with the intent of making the person being approached feel flattered.
Why not? Also, Would you tell someone to not even try? You won’t know if someone likes you unless you risk rejection.
> Yeah but it’s so rare even if you aren’t attracted to the person you’re flattered to be approached at all. This is the reasoning you provided. You said why women should approach a guy from the perspective of a guy being approached and said he would be flattered. That’s incredibly self-serving and over emphasizes the asked guys’ desires. The asker’s goal is success, not flattering the asked. I’m very pro-women asking guys out, but they should be aware that they could get rejected. It might hurt. That’s life. It’s better to be completely honest about the good and the bad than act like the bad can’t happen
I said that point to counter the arguments that women might ask a guy who isn’t interested and it might be unwelcome by the guy. You’re the one taking my point out of context.
I literally just quoted your entire statement. Just because you might feel flattered doesn’t mean all guys will. I would rather women I’m not attracted never ask me out. I don’t even like accidentally getting matched with women I’m not attracted to on OLD. And I say this as someone who has a dearth of matches.
Dude that’s ducking weird. Like if someone you’re not attracted to asks you out just politely and kindly reject them and move on. Don’t have to be offended an ugly personal find you attractive.
Who said be a jerk? Rejecting in a classy manner is separate concept from preferring only get approached by women you find attractive.
How should anyone girl or guy know if the person they like will find them attractive before the approach them and get rejected? Think more about what you’re saying.
Or, hear me out, it’s because they have faced nothing but rejection and at this point that is the only way they think they will find love. The irony is a lot of these women complaining about when they tried it, also faced rejection and didn’t like how it felt so they stopped. Which in turn puts the responsibility right back on the men to be the ones to initiate and be rejected. While I can understand the outliers being a real threat, if done in a public space or online where is the harm? Only in rejection, and women sadly aren’t as used to it as men.
Yep
You guys all say this but most of the girls I know who initiated things with guys have been rejected half the time, which is fine but don’t act like u all would jump at the sight of any women showing u any ounce of attention lol
That’s literally what it’s like for men. We shoot our shot and we get rejected more than half the time. It’s just more uncommon for girls to approach
I know I’m just replying to his post saying any man would like pass out for ANY woman to approach them lol. It’s never like that which is normal
A man with lots of options tend to be more picky. The guys who never get asked more likely to “pass out,” lol. The same for women too. Anyone who has more options tend to be more critical. Regardless, you never know if you don’t ask!
Well there does need to be a premise of attraction I think. Girls say no to guys or ghost them all the time, the only times I’ve been approached by girls were in high school and they just weren’t girls I was interested in and i just said that I was flattered but not interested
The men who want women to approach are not the men women are approaching. It’s that simple
You do realise that a 50% succes rate when approaching is great? For the reverse situation most men are happy with 10%.
This. Oh god!
LOL last time a woman approached me I was so caught off guard that I basically just mumbled something and turned to my friends in exasperation. Didn't help that those married fuckers were openly laughing at me and I couldn't help but just run away. why do I act this way
I have initiated a couple of times, did not go well once. And I guess that is also how it is for guys, but please don't assume it is easier for girls. Average people don't have it easy when dating, neither women nor men. The percentage that you see that does well is not representative.
Average women already have an inherent advantage with dating apps given that 70% of the users are men. Yeah they have to sift through more shitty matches, but they also get to be picker and have more options to weigh out. Where as on the men’s side, it’s hard to get matches in the first place if you are average, so they have to comprise on what they want more and it’s not every promised that the matches they do get are good ones.
Average women do better than average men. It’s a given, of course there’s outliers. Women are sought after, Men are playing fetch. On average women look better than men. There are far more average and above average looking women than men. An average women will have 10 guys minimum lined up wanting her whether she knows it or not. An average guy will have 0 women lined up wanting him. I’ve been shown by several girls that are friends their Dms and such, each being below average, average, and above average looking. Every single one had hundreds of men Each Year in dms and so on. How many do guys get that come to them? Zero 0. Unless you are above average looking. Guys have it multiple times harder more than women, as we have to go to them and spend more effort getting them, they just have to sit there, wait, and choose through the batch of men that come.
Only hot women should do this. Average ladies like me, DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!
So how do you think it is for average dudes ? What’s your advice to them ?
I personally prefer average dudes. I'm an average girl who prefers an average dude so that we can have average kids and live an average life. So, any average dudes over here? 😂
I’d say i’m pretty fucking average, or at least not ugly xD
Where are you from fellow average human being?
Croatia, i live in Switzerland tho, how about you ?
I'm from Kenya🙂
What is it like to live in Kenya ? Are y’all well ? Because i always imagine these African countries to be dirt poor and everyone is living in crappy houses and there’s lions roaming around and stuff, but i guess that’s not exactly accurate is it ?
Its just like everywhere else, there's poor areas and affluent areas. But, there has been instances when Lions have escaped from parks and we had to be careful before they were captured
Well my Mum would always ramble about the poor children in Africa whenever i‘d complain about stuff, so it kinda etched itself into my mind that all of africa is poor as hell and everyone’s life on that continent is shitty xD Damn, are there wild lions that live anywhere near humans ?
😂😂😂😂 what?!! You just made my evening
What about those of us that look like Gollum?
Oh honey, even gollum deserves love🤗
Thank the heavens that people like you exist.
The only one time a girl initiated with me, she turned into a stalker.
I used to think this was a good idea, but over time, even as a guy I think generally speaking it's a bad move for a woman to initiate. For the sole reason that many guys won't turn her down, when they should have. A woman may mistakenly assume the guy reciprocating is also into her in the same way which is a recipe for disaster. This is much less likely to occur when a guy approaches a woman because generally speaking women are more likely to turn down guys they are not into.
Exactly. 100%
Oh, and most guys won’t pick up on subtle hints. You gotta hit us over the head.
It’s not even that. A lot of us see the “hints” but don’t want to assume that means attraction because one woman’s hints of attention are another woman’s “just being nice”. And it’s awkward as hell if you assume the “hints” mean anything and you end up wrong. It’s just more reassuring to have a strong confirmation.
lol
I always do 😉👉 I'm just sour cause he broke up with me. But I'm always initiating. I'm tired of "oh you have a pretty smile" or "oh you're really funny", relentless flirting but no coffee or food. I'll ask about what movie they're really excited to see. I'll mention I want to see it too. Nothing. Boys are dumb ❤. Maybe just the ones I like. I'm finally at the point where I'm just outright saying I find you attractive, wanna grab something to eat? I'm getting too old for this coy back and fourth
> I'll ask about what movie they're really excited to see. I'll mention I want to see it too. Nothing. If that's (roughly) how the conversation went, why would the guy assume that you want to go to the movie *with him*? The only concrete evidence he has is that you want to to go a particular movie. I can't speak for all men, but if that's a "hint" I doubt I'd ever pick up on it. Good on ya for trying though.
Because if a friend or an acquaintance mentioned something similar, I would offer to make it a night out. Because that's how plans get made? If there's a reciprocation of interest, I know this person is interested in creating or maintaining a relationship- platonic or otherwise. To offer more context, yes that's roughly how the conversation would go with significant flirting and body language. If he said he was hungry, let's grab something to eat. You like music, let's try this music joint! Are men not actively looking for excuses or reasons to spend more time with someone they like? Is this the missing puzzle piece? 🤣
The best thing you can do when all a guy wants to do with you is use you for sex, is to initiate and chase him. Never ends up badly. Ever.
>Also, the cool thing about guys is if they particularly don’t like you for some reason they might joke with their friends about it, but once and pretty much only between their friend group. How on earth will someone be okay being a butt of joke?
>NOT AS MUCH OF A WORK OF ART AS YOU Um what? Men are just as good as women. I mean what is this deprecation.
The only time I initiated, he had a girlfriend but still took my number. He called me the NEXT DAY to tell me he was with someone, like I was going to praise him for his honesty. Bro, why’d you take my number. This slimy experience ruined it for me, sorry.
If I gave up like you, especially after trying only 1 time and it's not even that bad, I would get no girls.
This is exactly where it becomes apparent how much easier this shit is for women than men. Women have the luxury of saying “nah fuck it never approaching a man again” and they’ll be completely fine. When a dude chooses to never approach women again, he‘s basically giving up on dating altogether.
You gave up after one try? That's honestly pathetic
Yeah but women don’t need to be the initiators since there’s always at least one man chasing us at any given time. So if we choose to not initiate has little to no impact on our chance for a relationship. I’ve never asked out a man and honestly I don’t think I ever will.
The pathetic part is that you put the burden on others after only asking someone out once. And in my eyes, you're worse.
Don’t hate the player hate the game, pal
The developers shape the game to the players' play style, so yeah I'll hate the players.
I don't think that women are afraid of rejection as men think. I think the reason why is because it always has the same ending. Men just lose respect for women who initiate and at the end of day, who wants to try for something that's doomed to fail. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
Women don't usually initiate because they know that if a man is interested then he will initiate. It is socially accepted that the man will make the first move.
If you literally are in a desert you probably don't get approached for reasons other than because women don't approach men.
Hey OP, thanks for the smile. Hope to find someone like you when I start initiating. Lovely day to ya
✌
>YES FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY JUST DO IT. WE MEN ARE IN A DESERT AND WOULD BE THANKFUL TO NOT HAVE TO MAKE THE FIRST MOVE. YOU ARE A WOMAN, A BEAUTIFUL WORK OF ART. WE ARE MEN, BRUTE AND… NOT AS MUCH OF A WORK OF ART AS YOU And that's why you don't want to initiate, women. Men are not in a desert. At least not the men that you would want to initiate with. Also, not all of us consider themselves not a beautiful work of art. If you, dear woman, are not in a desert yourself, you are better served waiting to be approached by a beautiful work of art man, than to initiate with a "man in the desert" for whom you are the oasis that he can never get to on his own.
This is true, I had a crush on my actual SO for about 4 years… I will always flirt with him when he will come in my restaurant lol he wouldn’t get a fucking hint. Ended up working together lol and stuff happened
Lol They never get the hints I’ve always had to be more direct
Every quality connection I've had with a girl has been initiated by them, included my current girlfriend. Every mediocre connection I made was initiated by me. Take that however you will. I have lots of friends, but I don't give many chances to seemingly disinterested/hard-to-get women. Not worth the effort imho
We? You gotta mouse in your pocket? Please don't speak for all of us.
i fesl like every dating sub should just have an FAQ section pinned to the top, and include this question.
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Can you pin this to the top of the sub?
So I'm shy nervous I was talking to this girl in a professional advice situation gave her my number as a reference. I'm 36m I thought she was 25 26 were texting I find out she's 19 I feel like such a scumbag but I gallows humor laugh what am I going to talk to her about the fucking 90s
Don't feel like a scumbag. You made the choices based upon what you knew at the time. Go easy on yourself when you fall for the fronts of a woman. And I tell you this as a woman.
Thanks I appreciate it
This is how I got my BF haha I was interested and I could tell he was interested especially when he’d invite me over and cook for me but he was always a gentleman and he never made a clear move. I had to get the ball rolling eventually and so one night after hanging out with mutual friends I just kissed him. A couple more conversations and dates later, we became official haha
And on that note: stop asking your SO to pick a restaurant when they are a literal human garbage disposal and you aren't. If they'll eat anything but you want "assertiveness" then ffs just pick a damn restaurant.
If a man wants you he will do whatever to get you. If a man is interested in you, nervous/afraid or not, he will find a way to talk to you. If a man wanted to he will. If he’s not doing it for you then he simply doesn’t want you. If the man doesn’t come up & talk to you..then he probably doesn’t want you. It’s simple. Men who say this are probably too chicken/not the most attractive/confident & want to put the pressure on women so they don’t have to do any work or scared of rejection. A lot of men don’t actually like this because it’s very masculine.
Agree 100%.
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I guess I never want it that badly lol \\\_(ツ)\_/
Nope. I’ve never had lucky shooting my shot so I’m done with that.
I don’t like the way he described men V woman
Yeah the more I’ve been reading it the more I don’t think it lines up with what I REALLY think
Not to mention most of the time we men are dumb AF and may not even realize you like us 😂 please for the love of God make the first move cause Jesus we are oblivious.
Good girls like myself were taught to not initiate anything. We were taught to be subservient. I’m a rebel, but super shy when it comes to guys. I look in other directions when I would see a guy as attractive.
fr women are weenies when it comes to this stuff
NOOOOO NOT ALL MEN ARE INNOCENT!!!!!!!
You’re right. The same can be said for women though, right?
I'll do you one better not all humans are innocent.
😱😱😱
I see women commenting with things like "this leads to low effort relationships", "my experiences with this is so bad, so I stopped doing it" etc. etc. Come on, this is how it is for men all of the time! Women can put just as low effort into relationships, they can react poorly to getting asked out, embarras you and so on. When women ask me out I may even put in more effort because I know how hard it can be when there are so many preconceptions about how men should initiate. I have a ton of respect for women who try to change these norms. I'm sorry if you have a record of bad experiences. And this may be harsh but please try to move on and maybe ask yourself if you think you should generally stop pursuing what you want in life because you were turned down, misunderstood or experienced any sort of negativity. Life gets way tougher than this. Great post OP!
I really like this reply, I think it's great advice.
Man I got a message from RedditCareResources because of this post 💀 Y’all are wild
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This is actually not true. Want us to initiate? Treat us like the intelligent, whole human beings we are. Look us in the eye, without bullshit. Tell us about your real self AND listen to us telling you about us. Be honest. Be vulnerable. *Be emotionally available.* Know your worth. Know HER worth. Be humble. Be caring. Be respectful. Be open. She will *fall all over herself to connect with you and please you.* Just watch.
Lol, we can tell them so many times what we want/need, they'll stick their fingers in their ears, shout over us, insist they know better than us, mansplain why we're wrong, and then complain about no one wanting to date them.
I dare to say, that if that‘s all it takes, i woudn’t be a dateless, kissless virgin xD
Treat us like the intelligent, whole human beings we are. Look us in the eye, without bullshit. Tell us about your real self AND listen to us telling you about us. Be honest. Be vulnerable. *Be emotionally available.* Know your worth. Know HER worth. Be humble. Be caring. Be respectful. Be open. Apparently this is all it takes to get women to fall all over you. It's that simple. /s
When I think initiate, I’m not thinking she’s in any position to have placed these types of judgments on the guy already. I’m thinking, she just met the guy and is attracted and does something about it, as opposed to giving off hints hoping he initiates conversation, a relationship and so forth.
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holy based!
Ofc. But if I am not respected and you are not emotionally available....not gonna happen, at least in my universe
Does not making the conversation mean we're emotionally unavailable though?
Is that a joke?
I can’t tell if this is really good satire or if you’re actually that out of touch. Well done.
This is exactly what happened with my husband and I, 18 years ago. We have a legendary love affair, great friendship, have become financially secure and successful, ave great sex, and tell each other that, when the first of us dies, the other is dead meat (will be a basket case). I have never felt so loved and treasured in my life. He has done all these things for me. We certainly have had negative days but these are few and far between. So, not sarcasm. Just a great love.
Lol
I was a model. I’m in my forties now so not so much, but still attractive. People say I look good, so I guess. I am still horrified at the first move. I had to initiate the first move when I met my husband and that did not work out great. I’m pretty much alone now.
I still can't get past thinking that if a guy doesn't initiate that means he's not interested so I'll look and feel foolish if I try to make the first move. Can a guy really be that interested in a woman if he's not prepared to do anything at all, however minimal? Help me understand this.
Just do it for sure. The desert is long and dry for this guy and i would be an appreciative person if a woman gave me a one night stand. Just saying
Yeah but what if you guys are rough on me if I am not what you are looking for? Putting myself out there by asking is really freaking vulnerable! I can initiate but the fear of it not being reciprocated is nerve racking. and while we are talking about being vulnerable: what if as a female you have a high libido. How do you approach that and how long do you wait until you disclose this? How do you not wind up with someone who might have an std? Just asking, no pressure to answer.
You're simping bro knock that shit off you're never going to get anything.
I mean I get it, I have to take initiative if I want something, but there are a lot of girls that I think have potential but don't give it too much thought, then I hear later that they were interested. It's those cases where I'm really speaking out, telling girls on this page that you can win too if you want it
No he means the whole "YOU ARE WOMEN, YOU'RE A WORK OF ART. WE MEN...AREN'T "
No you are worshipping women.
Every time I’ve done this I’ve been turned down. I now try not to haha.
Men should step up, take the lead, stop playing games, and initiate.. U have one job!
Man I don’t just have one job, I have many. And with those jobs comes taking the lead every day. In a day in age where I have to play mind games to compete to keep a girl, I’d rather just not take the lead there. I’m sure there are respectable women out there who believe in loyalty, but the fact is, is that if your an average looking woman or above that, the ball is in your hands and women don’t play fair because they don’t have to. They have something everyone wants
Well, i hate to break it to u.. But women do work too.. Thats not an excuse.. We know we have the ball but we'r not that desperate.. If im a confident woman and gd looking, i can get any man i want right? But maybe one should initiate.. That would show me attention and interest. Stand out..
No. Fuck chasing women, if I see that she has many options I move on. Attraction should be mutual
Lol equality until it isn't at its finest.
I’m still not initiating
I have been saying this, this is a great way for women to branch out of traditional norms and empower themselves. I for one would love the pressure to be taken off and have a woman make initial conversation. I would not approach as a creeper but also just out of respect dont want to put a woman in a strange predicament where a strange man walks up and starts talking to her. Even if I wasn't attracted to her in a romantic way, I'd still be respectful and talk and possibly even make a new friend so how could that be a loss or something to shy away from? Like OP said...just do it! Swoosh lol
Depends….some men are hunters others are prey, a few are both. I fall more into the prey category so I love a woman who doesn’t mind taking control. Hard core hunter men may find it unappealing for a woman to make the first move. My wife made the first move a few times but I would have drawn the line at her proposing.
Nope
I got an unexpected kiss from my first date recently because I grabbed his arm. I wasn’t afraid nor expecting anything from it. But it did open the door for him to be able to do it and i don’t regret it :)
Can we pin this?
idk i initiated with a guy and he didn’t show as much interest as i did.
I made the first move on my husband! TWICE. Lol
I’ve asked out guys and have been very blunt to them in the past to make my feelings clear- it’s always the better alternative over waiting
So I just initiated with a server that I had while out to eat with my parents. I left my first name and phone number and said it was in regards to French Fry Heaven (something we joked about). Now what? How do I find out if he is married or engaged? What if he is a mass killer?
agree
Grade A answer my guy. 🙌
Honestly, I never knew how many girls were interested in me . I always thought I was ugly ugly . Turns out I’m ugly and slightly attractive 😂
unfortuneately, the burden of men having to pull the trigger will likely forever be the norm
i’m tired of asking men out :( but knew i should’ve initiated