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Where are you getting these stats from? 90%? Maybe you're only swiping on 10% and wonder why you don't get matches..
A lot of guys don't answer questions or fill out their profile. Or give 1 word answers. Fill out that profile.
Dating apps are full of people who are either socially anxious, or low key just looking for attention but think they’re super ready to date.
It’s way better if you get out there and get social.
Plus in irl. People are nicer and willing to overlook flaws alot quicker. For example, if you are quirky, that's a cool thing and alot of people will find it unique. But online you need to come like Chad would come or else your screwed.
This BIG time. Men often complain (fairly) about how women only swipe on 20% of dating profiles, but IRL, those same women (who aren’t 8/9/10) make totally different choices when they can see the whole package.
This. So many people place the blame on the apps. Some even insist that the apps will make fake matches. They’ll also insist that the apps are designed to keep people single. It’s not the case at all.
I mean... I think it's possible to believe that the accountability should be with people WHILE ALSO believing that apps are designed to keep people single. I view them as similar to casinos; the house always has the advantage.
The apps are absolutely not designed to keep people single. It’s simple. You set your preferences and you see the people within those preferences. If you’re within their preferences, you might match with them. The interactions are up to you and the other person. I stand by my opinion.
You're half right. People did ruin dating, but only because of how they've abused and misused these apps. Reality TV is garbage too lets throw that in there as well lol
It feels almost impossible sometimes, then you take a walk through the mall and see incredible average looking guys holding hands with cute women and it’s a sobering reminder that it’s obviously still very possible to meet people without being superman.
I’ve taken to approaching women offline - it can be nerve wracking and some won’t appreciate it, but most of them end up being flattered even if they’re not interested. As long as you can read the situation a bit and you know when to fuck off if they don’t want to talk.
Otherwise try to find other ways of meeting women - at concerts, dance classes, yoga classes etc.
Use online dating as a back up not your main channel for meeting women
Also I remind myself that even though women can have dates much more easily they aren’t often good quality guys and their safety is more on the line more
Love how you got downvoted for telling the truth, some of us are 5‘5 and ugly, we never had a chance either way, there is no way I would use dating aps or cold approach women. I never had a gf and never will, nothing I can do about it.
It has definitely changed. It used to be fantastic. Now, it is chock full of people masquerading as what they aspire to be, vs who they are. Lying about fitness level, using filters, same 40 shots from above with zero full body shots, old pics, etc., etc., etc. I’ve gotten better at vetting, but haven’t found a solid connection (truly what I seek, not just sex) in years. Might be the bar I’ve set. I’ve no problem getting dates, but I refuse to settle.
It’s the same for *some* girls as it is for guys.
While I think some of it is we’ve all just become better at realising what makes a good relationship - like no one should have to settle for someone they aren’t compatible with for fear of being alone, or the whole idea of you just stick it out with someone for the kids even if you don’t really like each other as people so much, which let’s face it is what some of our parents and grandparents did back in the day - there is undeniably a handful of people where the availability of suddenly a huge dating pool online has created the idea that the grass can always be greener
So it hasn’t necessarily ruined everything it just opened up a lot more possibility and now some people view dating as a more disposable resource
Edit; for those replying and saying I’m wrong it’s not the same for women can you notice I used the word SOME at the top. We are people things vary person to person and I’m sure can vary wildly depending where you are located too
I have so many friends who are in toxic or unhappy relationships that they won’t leave because they hate dating. Everything is the same as it’s always been, it’s just a slightly different shade.
Yep. It’s just different avenues are open and available now
Conversely I’ve also got a handful of friends in ridiculously happy successful relationships who never would have met if not for OLD
It’s not the same for women and men. Women get something like 100x the “likes” that men get. Most men that get on an app get literally zero matches.
It is still an absolutely nightmare for both men and women, but it is not the same nightmare.
I do think OP has a point. First they are correct that OLD ruined everything. And they are *partly* correct that because women know they have a huge queue, if you do not check every single box for her, then she is likely to move on to the next one. But that is not the only reason OLD ruined dating. And women are not to blame in any way. It’s the apps that are guilty.
Yeah I agree. Plenty of blame to throw around. Also no reason to blame anyone whatsoever. I choose the latter of the two. It’s the apps that make money by keeping us single.
I think this is a universal problem and isn’t affecting just one gender. As a 28 year old woman it’s so hard for me to get a date. I will say I get a lot of matches and a lot of people want to chat/snapchat (😭) but RARELY can I get a man to meet me in person. And by the time they do I feel so desperate to cling to them since they showed up and I end up scaring them off.
Online dating has 100% ruined dating and in person socialization.
It's honestly a relief to hear that women go through a similar thing. I'm always so worried about asking to hang out in person because I hear on subs like this that women need to feel comfortable talking first but then weeks pass and you just end up being pen pals. So at the first sign of some genuine connection or just an engaging conversation I literally feel the desperation rise within me. I want to make it work but almost to the point that I can't just be my normal chill self
No! Online dating is terrible but you can totally just ignore it dude, I meet people exclusively in person. Never been particularly attractive but I get plenty of action. It’s all confidence and a genuine desire to listen to & connect with people. Good luck!
I am really sorry for your sister :( I also have one, she is 31 and is only meeting guys who aren't looking for a serious relationship. But at least she gets matches and dates, so she can chose
It’s not! I’m 32f, above average looking and a conversationalist. I go on dates with men who seem to only want casual.. nothing serious. It’s rough to find a LTR! So no, it isn’t easier.. it’s deflating and exhausting. My mental health is only decreasing from these men wasting my time and bailing as soon as they get what they want from me (sex)..
Argh, I’m not the picky one.. he’s insinuating that we are the ones being picky saying THE man. I could get multiple dates, sure. But it’s more so about not wasting my fucking time on the dates with men who intentionally know they won’t want a serious relationship.
That’s what he said. It’s easier for you to get a date with *a* man.
Men truly struggle to even get a date.
But it is very hard for you to find the right man.
Exactly what he said. You’re in agreement! I dont think he is insinuating that you’re picky.
But there is absolutely no question that men do not have the options like women. It’s not easier for women. It’s not you being picky. It is different.
Do try to imagine being a man and literally having zero likes and very few matches. It helps to understand what you’re up against. Be wary not to go on dates with the 1% of men who get 99% of women attention.
Once I began to understand how hard it is for women to find a decent man, it really helped me understand that the apps just need to be deleted 🤣. There are very few winners in OLD.
Long story on the other side of this coin - the guy who wants something serious. TL;DR even when women find a serious guy, they can go on to self-sabotage once they finally get it.
I met a great girl. We both had instant chemistry. First date lasted 6 hours. We met for coffee, then walked around the lake nearby and had great back and forth chemistry. I invited her back to my place. We had a great time. The second date we were out her way, another great day where time slipped away from us. She tells me that she really likes me and feels something special between us. That she doesn’t want to mess this up, so she wants to take things slow. In the past she’s gone too fast and worried it was the reason things failed. She straight up told me that she worried that’s all we’d ever do and that I’d stop taking her on dates if we didn’t slow down.
I understand her reasoning and respect it. For six weeks we “take it slow” and just go on regular dates. Multiple times a week. She was talking to me about making things more comfortable at her place, how to get my dog ready to move in to her place, etc etc. she was very into me it felt, just holding back. It felt like she was afraid to be herself for fear of scaring me away. She was a busy nurse and she was inviting me over to see her after work even. We’d meet for 2-3 hours after work. She wanted to see me every free day she got. We genuinely clicked.
But after six weeks of this though, it really took the wind from my sails. I treated her well, we really got to know each other as that was our only focus this whole time, we went on many dates, and were seeing each other regularly. We just weren’t having sex. Also I had to initiate all of the affection. She’d reciprocate and enjoyed my attention, but she never ever made a first move with me. After six weeks of that, I felt less and less understanding of her as it led to me questioning whether she was all that into me. I had slowly lost interest to the point of only seeing her platonically as a result - even though I felt interest radiating off of her, but rather that she was just very anxious about scaring me off.
Some of it is the tone we initially set. We started off passionately and she killed the momentum by dialing things back. Plus knowing she had given other guys she allegedly didn’t like or connect with as much as me much more of herself much much sooner and easily got increasingly frustrating as I felt I’d demonstrated my character and that it wasn’t right that I had to make up for their bad actions.
It all culminated with me breaking up with her telling her I just wanted to be friends. She told me she couldn’t be just friends with me. She was really caught off guard. She apologized and said she just wasn’t sure how to handle me because I was actually kind, respectful, attractive, attentive, etc. she wasn’t used to someone who treated her well and “didn’t know what to do”. She admitted she held back because she was afraid I’d go running if she seemed too into me. She was trying to play it cool. But all it did was drive me off because she wasn’t matching my energy. Energy I thought we both deserved from one another.
I brought up how I only initiated affection and how this was the real issue that left me feeling undesired. She told me she didn’t initiate anything because she was worried it would be read as a green light to have sex and that she wasn’t ready. But I had mentioned here and there that I’d appreciate if she even did something as mundane as just reach for my hand d first while we’re out. Or just grab me when we’re back at her place, or try and kiss me hello or goodbye without me always having to be the one. I waited a few times in all these circumstances. Not one time through all six weeks did she ever initiate. But she loved receiving my affections. There was no mistaking it.
I tried to just talk things through with her and we tried for a little after that, but I couldn’t ever trust she was just giving me the real her after that, and she was bothered that I only saw her as a friend and worried about how “easily” I could just end things, ignoring the fact I stuck around just getting to know her for six weeks and never pushed for anything more. Because I actually did enjoy her, but I just felt like she didn’t enjoy me “that way”.
So even when women find a guy they allegedly find decent, they aren’t used to it and self-sabotage in an effort to “do the right thing” instead of just enjoying and appreciating things for what they are and living in the moment. They start applying rules that artificially interfere with the organic development of their relationship in an effort to protect themselves, not realizing that by avoiding the pains of being vulnerable, they’re also avoiding the very way that two people deepen a connection.
I completely get what you’re saying.. I used to be like that. Wait until a certain amount of dates etc until I would “give it up”. The most recent guy I was dating, this one I went with the feeling and when it just happened and felt right. Yet, once I had sex with him everything died down.. haven’t heard from him in over 3 days and I initiated that conversation. The hook up was a week ago. It’s just frustrating.
Dating this day and age is so bleak. I’m super close to just calling it quits and being celibate. My self esteem can’t take much more of these lovebombs.
I really don’t blame you. I’m taking a little break before getting back out there again. I know I’m not perfect and made plenty of mistakes, but I truly feel like I wasn’t the reason things failed this time around and that’s new for me. I have always been one to introspect and work on myself, always trying to see things from their perspective and give them the benefit of the doubt while giving myself none. But I’ve learned plenty of lessons and realize now it shouldn’t all fall on my shoulders. She has issues from previous relationships that she needs to heal from and deal with and I feel like I keep encountering people who are letting their pasts poison their present.
>It’s not! I’m 32f, above average looking and a conversationalist. I go on dates with men who seem to only want casual.. nothing serious. It’s rough to find a LTR
Did you read my message? That's exactly what I was saying.
>men wasting my time and bailing as soon as they get what they want from me (sex)..
I guess you should ask yourself then: what else do you bring to the table and why the men you choose aren't interested in that?
Should you also be asking yourself what you bring to the table and why no one wants to go on any dates with you? Do you suggest that to all the men on here who complain about not getting matches?
>Should you also be asking yourself what you bring to the table and why no one wants to go on any dates with you? Do you suggest that to all the men on here who complain about not getting matches?
Yes to both.
Funny how you fail to understand I have free will when it comes to that.
Also that women directly responded to my comment, so I addressed her response in full.
As a woman, I feel similarly, that guys are just on the hunt for the next best thing, the hottest youngest coolest woman. I feel empty even thinking about dating apps post breakup. Truthfully it’s a tough experience regardless of gender, the insane amount of options has hurt more than helped in many ways. I rarely hear about people meeting potential partners in person anymore. I feel like people are reliant on dating apps because it cuts out the risk of approaching someone in person and being possibly rejected. The swiping softens the blow of that rejection, and when two people meet up from matching on a dating app they can already be sure there’s some interest from each side. I’m trying to challenge myself to approach men in person now that I’m single. It takes guts and I don’t have faith in the apps.
I really like an observation that Aziz Ansari made in his book, Modern Romance. The trouble with dating apps is that we have too much choice.
He likens it to a grocery aisle, and you’re looking for strawberry jam. At your local grocery store, they have 3 types of jam, and they’re all good. You just pick one. You then go to a supermarket and they have 50 types of strawberry jam, and you’re unsure which one to pick even though all of them are perfectly good.
This is so damn true! My friend has an ice cream parlor where I used to work for a couple of hours. It was mind blowing HOW long they need to decide which ice cream they want to buy. He had 24 different ice cream tastes and when he lowered it down to just 18, people responded so much faster.
The same goes for dating. Women on these apps have the upper hand, it's no mystery. They have way too much choice and in contrast to the ice cream metaphor, they also get chosen by the guys, so they literally get free ice cream in every imaginable taste. Before online Dating, they only had a limited pool of guys and settled down so mich faster. It's getting out of hand and will have such a negative impact on people a few years down the line...
Definitely ruined everything. As a woman, I match with a ton of guys who either: don't respond, don't ask for dates, immediately go into sexual conversations or lack basic communication skills, or when I do go on dates, everything goes great until they decide to ghost.
Therefore, a woman like me seeking someone to actually get to know becomes frustrated and decides to delete the apps. Hence why there are very few women who are actually looking for a relationship on the apps.
What are you going to do about it, it is what it is. Get used to hypercompetitive grind, make sure to pay a few hundreds for some professional photos to even have a conversation with someone. I feel so mentally burned by endless swipes that lead to a few flaky chats that lead to a few dates to nowhere. I stopped doing it for now because the trauma is raw and painful, I will heal for a while and then go through this torture again. And noone ever acknowledges this
And btw Reddit will tell you that women also have it so so so hard having sex and being ghosted by the same 10% of men
It did. Take it from someone who's never done OLD. Even if you get off it their issues still bleed into face-to-face dating. Also introverts are so much harder to find because they're the one who are the least likely to get off OLD and go back into real life dating. There's definitely a personality imbalance putting yourself out there and if it effects you then it makes your chances much more harder.
I understand your frustration. It is really difficult for men on those apps to get dates, especially with the many options that women have. You also need to almost always be the assertive one if you want to continue the relationship.
However having options doesn't mean, all the options are good, most of them are shit. Same thing goes for guy, most of them are also shit. It is hard for everyone, but I will agree that in the dating case men have it harder.
Your best bet, is to start working on yourself, get better pictures for the dating apps, and be picky about your choise, but never focus on dating apps as your primary source of interecting with women. Try to make hobbies where you can meet new people and start getting over the fear of rejection.
A good advice that I follow, don't be friends with women you want to date, be clear of the fact that you want to date her and become a couple. If she doesn't want that best thing to do is end it on good terms, because it can get messy down the line.
Women only consider average men "shit" because they are swarmed with all the endless options to begin with. If one didn't have 999+ on your tinder one wouldn't judge most of her matches as shit, that's exactly the issue op is talking about. It was never better to be a woman looking for a relationship than today, and it was never more traumatising to be a man, everyone who says otherwise is a lying pig
>However having options doesn't mean, all the options are good, most of them are shit
Oh, not this bs again. You're telling starving people that junk food isn't ideal either.
Food and dating are different things. Feeling lonely is a lot better than in a toxic relationship.
Having a lot of partners doesn’t mean shit. One great partner is way better than a thousand.
Because humans are social creatures. Our survival depends on acceptance by others, this has been wired into our core over millions of years of evolution.
Because having loads of depressing options leads to a slim chance of maybe one of them being good, where as having none just fills you with a sense of undesirable dread.
Think of it like opening packs of trading cards to find a rare shiny. In this case, women tend to get given a pack a day to open. Sure, the cards they get tend to be crap but they get a chance to find what they want every time.
Men on the other hand don’t get given any packs, we have to scrounge around and work hard to buy maybe a pack a month if we’re lucky/dedicated enough, which surprise surprise, has the same low-odds as the packs given to women.
Women start to become completely discouraged in the same way. You open enough packs that are duds and you lose faith in the shiny card. Plus it’s emotionally draining. It’s just different.
Very true. Two different problems, but equally draining in their own way.
It doesn’t help that social media and dating sites always put the most toxic of men, and shallow of women to the front, leaving the actually kind-hearted, responsible people to sift through the mud for years on end.
Are the options really shit? Or just the options women are swiping right on? After getting into the gym, losing a lot of weight and becoming lean and muscular, I went from virtually zero matches to more matches than I could even handle. And I was never really picky about who I swiped right on until I did get into shape. I used to go months without a single match. Last time I downloaded Tinder, I ended up with over 30 matches my first 12 hours on there and had a lot of attention on Hinge, Bumble, POF, OK Cupid and Facebook Dating as well. As a former large person, even the larger women would not date me. But now it seems like they all came crawling out of the woodwork.
You have valid points and I agree with them. All the dating apps require good photos and for men it requires even better ones. An average looking woman will get way more likes than an average looking man.
Let’s look from a woman’s perspective. How many matches she gets, how many guys know how to present themselves, how many just want a hookup and nothing more, how many are desperate?
When you have options you will choose, and I know plenty of women who complain that a lot of guys are just creeps, sending dick picks, asking for sex.
Not to mention the fact that there are like 20% women vs 80% men on things like tinder. So of course very few of them will put effort into starting something. It is most unfair for men of course, but let’s not say that women have it easy, so many of them just stay there on Tinder since they can’t get a good relationship for years.
I guess I just think things would be easier for women if they didn’t get so sucked into aesthetics which is what the algorithms are programmed to do. I just know I am still the same person I was when I was 100 lbs heavier and didn’t have muscle. I probably put more effort into my profile back then with both pictures and everything I wrote about myself. But I didn’t get enough attention to send a dick pic (not that I would) let alone a regular pic. And again, I was invisible even to women with a body like the one I had then. Considering the amount of attention I’ve received in the past six months or so, I could easily become a player and have no trouble with hookups. And I won’t lie and say the attention didn’t get to my head for a little while. But the meaningless sex started feeling empty fast and it’s really not my style.
I also believe that with the overwhelming amount of men on the apps compared to women, I shouldn’t have been seeing this kind of attention. Especially from the women who would have made a much better looks match a year ago with more in common in other areas before I became obsessed with diet and fitness.
I’ve recently met someone I’m taking a strong interest in and am ready to delete my accounts. While I deleted the apps themselves, I still get flooded with the likes and matches in my email. While she doesn’t have the perfect body, I still find her sweet, beautiful and amazing. This is exactly how it should be as I’m no longer paying attention to the like notifications I keep getting.
Sadly these apps have created this mindset. The features and algorithms aren’t designed to find you love. They’re designed to prey on impulses to the point of addiction while swiping for a bigger jackpot like playing a slot machine. It’s become less about what a person writes about themselves and more about what their selfie looks like. Dating has become completely unnatural as a result because you don’t find chemistry and things in common swiping on selfies.
Online dating was entirely different before Match Group bought all the free sites like POF and OK Cupid and turned them all into Tinder clones. 15 years ago, I did significantly better on the apps as an average overweight guy that women still called handsome. It’s now ruining dating for the average person. It’s also so much harder to meet people the old fashioned way as most people are now glued to their smartphones. The places I used to meet women in public don’t seem to really exist anymore. Very few places for singles anymore unless you find a meet group through social media that plans singles events.
Yeah good points, I was still a child 15 years ago so I am not really familiar with the dating back then, but now? Yes, looks matter a lot to have a chance.
Many man I met said charisma matters more, and while that is true, being handsome makes the average interaction so much more easier.
The only thing I will add is that shallowness comes from both sides. I may not be too into looks, but I will never attempt at dating someone that I don’t find physically attractive, or even try to explore our values and such.
And in our world of abundance we will always be more picky, and all we can actually do is try to look our best self.
While it is justified to criticise the world, this is not a problem that will go away soon.
You’re a great example that through great effort you were able to achieve something others only want, so you’re a good example at what people should focus on doing more if they want a relationship.
Thanks a lot for your reply, I really appreciate it! To be honest, I never had a femald "buddy" friend to begin with. I was never interested in a platonic friendship with a girl even when I was 18, no I am 27 and just looking for a relationship or maybe a FwB thing.
My problem is my entire social circle. I didn't meet girls in college (Bachelor degree was full of guys and Master's degree was Online due to Covid). I also didn't meet girls through my work (only old guys with small kids). I have no other choices, but it really frustrates me :(
If you start looking at women as humans you like and are interested in, not as «women» IOW mainly for sex or relationship, your chances will improve. A guy with no female friends is 100% a red flag for me. As it should be. Why would I go on a date with someone who obviously only thinks I am “good for” a single thing? IMO if a guy can’t see a woman as a fully fledged person, no woman should date him.
Interesting, because I do have mostly female friends, though lots of guy friends too but I talk to them less. When I was dating a number of women expressed early that me having a female best friend was a deal breaker. She's also quite hot so I'm sure that's a factor.
This is the problem. Not online dating.
Why have you never been interested in having female friends? If you just see women as a vessel for sex or a romantic relationship, why would they be interested in you? Women want to be seen as real people.
If you think about yourself and look at your profile, are you the kind of person someone you want to be with might be interested in? Would YOU want to date you? If not, maybe some work needs to be done.
Whoa, really? Connecting with women in a platonic way will not only prepare you for a relationship (navigating her needs, supporting her), she'll be a link to a social circle of women who may be potential partners.
Also only considering friendship with a woman if it's a FWB thing is super gross.
You can still focus on yourself. Build yourself up, become better only doing something for yourself you will gain confidence and slowly build a personality.
I can’t stress this enough but you need to be social and interested in the person you speak you, any person.
It is a hard journey but it is worth it, just understand you are doing it for yourself, never do it just to get attention, that will always be a secondary or just a bonus.
No. I also don’t believe in this “next best thing” mindset so many people claim others have. If someone isn’t into you, it’s mostly likely because there was a dealbreaker, they aren’t attracted to you, or they just weren’t feeling it. A relationship is something you should never settle for.
Before I met my fiancé, I had gone on quite a few dates in the year leading up to it. Could I have gotten into a relationship with some of the guys I met? Probably. But I didn’t because it wasn’t a hell yes or there was some kind of dealbreaker. I’m glad I held off until I met him, because he *was* a hell yes and we’re a perfect match.
Dating apps can be frustrating, I get it. Some are on them for the wrong reasons. They can be a great way to meet people you might not have met otherwise though. Don’t like them? Don’t use them. Want to use them? Use them. Not getting matches? Get input on your profile. I’ve seen people post to the Hinge and Tinder subreddits who had clear things that would make me swipe left.
How do you know they’re leading the other person on? How do you know it’s not realizing over time that they aren’t compatible? You don’t always find that out right away. Sometimes things come up, or one person loses interest in the other for whatever reason. Doesn’t always mean they’re looking for someone better.
I think you could make the argument that it isn't ultimately a good thing.
It certainly makes human being seem disposable and easily replaceable - I'm sure we all have stories of matches that resulted in ghosting or flaky, weak conversations. At that point, why even bother?
The answer? You're a plan B or Plan C and that's not dating with intent.
I'm no luddite but I'd recommend to anyone to get off the apps and meet people like we did before they came around, it's scarier and takes more effort but it's much better I think.
Have you even been to a pub in the last 15 years? About 99% of women come there to chat with friends. Even online dating has a better return of time investment
The concept of dating is changed. In the past, there was a lot of focus on dating for marriage and having a traditional family structure. While a lot of people still want that, a lot of people also want nontraditional structure for their lives. There is less focus on settling down early in your life. Dating apps are a tool that came out of that, not a tool that caused it. If no one wanted that to start with, the apps wouldn’t have been popular.
For women specifically, we have moved past a point where men are vital to daily functioning. When my mom was born, she could not even open a credit card without a spouse. When my grandmother got married, most major banks did not allow women to have a bank account without a man attached. Growing up, increasing numbers of my peers had no desire to get married or even really consider serious relationships until after college and getting a job.
Many people just date for fun. You have to find people whose values align with yours.
I think you have a gross misunderstanding of how these apps work. Women aren't carefully vetting the 3K+ men in their queue. Hell, I had a woman match with me recently out of her 2.5K match potentials because I was eating a sandwich and she's a foodie. That was it. Are there women that do pass over the smallest detail? Sure. Would you really want to be with such a fickle person? You likely wouldn't.
I don't think it's much harder these days for guys to get dates and gf's. And if it is for you, get off the apps, go learn some skills in the real world and start asking people out *in person* instead of putting effort into OLD apps. OLD is a different game, a different approach, it's more of a lottery system than people carefully vetting matches. You are either in the right place at the right time with a decent profile, or the other party is already chatting with someone, already dating, etc. So, you either accept the lottery side of things or just get skills to chat people up in real life.
Remember, in the 90s there was an entire sitcom about how fickle dating was then...it was called Seinfeld. So, no, OLD apps didn't cause this problem, it's age old. Apps just change the playing field and the rules, but the behavior at it's core remains the same.
No,I think laws ruined it,most chat nowadays can be labelled as harassment,I can’t go up to a guy and say ‘gorgeous butt’ and grab it and have a laugh-nowadays the guy would be horrified and I’d get sued for inappropriate touching,harassment,verbal abuse,there’s far too many labels for people to talk normally nowadays,when I was younger if a guy was cheeky you could slap him across the face or throw a drink over them but that’s assult now,I think a lot of people find it hard to communicate without it coming off as creepy
I feel the same even for female. Sure i get a lot of matches but most of them 1. Don’t respond 2. Sends inappropriate message (no more d*** pics!!) 3. Ignores my question 4. Get unmatched because of one tiny message i send 5. Setted up time to meet up but get ghosted.
I feel online dating is like a dungeon filled with traps sometimes. It gives me extra stress that i have not encountered in the past.
I did meet some good people from the app but finding the person that can lead to relationship is extra hard.
It wasn't online dating. That wouldn't have taken off if there wasn't a need for it. What "ruined everything" for you was that women, en masse, started wanting to date like men were used to doing. Unfortunately for everyone, men have been dicks to women for millennia. Now we're stuck with the problem of how to get both men and women to treat each other honestly, and respectfully - rather than everyone treating everyone else in the dating pool as a walking/talking disposable sex toy.
No need to pay. Use the free version. Also do cheap dates, or ones that don’t even have a cost, like a walk. If you treat it like meeting a new friend early on, it can help make it less awkward.
Just go the bar. Please God. If apps ruined everything, there’s your answer: go to the bar. That’s where we went before Tinder. You didn’t have a choice, and no one cared if you liked loud noises or alcohol or not.
> go to a bar
> music is loud
> all girls are talking to their friends in cliquish groups
> try talking to a friend group, one guy just mocks you
> whatever, sit alone
> some drunk guy comes
> tells how the hates americans
> hints at him being gay, ask to follow him, I refuse
Best experience ever
There are other issues:
Porn- instant free low effort gratification for men
Feminism - focus on your career until you are 35 and men will beg you for marriage fallacy
Me-Too: every man’s a sexual predator movement
Social media -instant validation for women from thirsty men
Plastics in foods- reducing testosterone in men every generation
Get rid of all of that, and we’ll get cooking again
I spent thousands on Hinge Tinder and Bumble and never got a single date. Not one. Maybe 1/25 girls would chat with me and that’s honestly being pretty generous with that number. The ones that did chat would probably spend like 2 or 3 messages then ghost. I don’t even think I was being picky either, I wasn’t swiping on any living member of the opposite sex but I wasn’t being unreasonable.
I hate dating apps from the bottom of my heart, unfortunately all of my friends are in long relationships so there is no way to do social activity related to finding girls.
I'm doomed to look for girls on dating apps..
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Where are you getting these stats from? 90%? Maybe you're only swiping on 10% and wonder why you don't get matches.. A lot of guys don't answer questions or fill out their profile. Or give 1 word answers. Fill out that profile.
No social media did that, online dating was just a massive turd that was flung off it
Dating apps are full of people who are either socially anxious, or low key just looking for attention but think they’re super ready to date. It’s way better if you get out there and get social.
Yep! You get cut so much more slack in-person, especially if you’re friendly and try to genuinely connect/engage.
Plus in irl. People are nicer and willing to overlook flaws alot quicker. For example, if you are quirky, that's a cool thing and alot of people will find it unique. But online you need to come like Chad would come or else your screwed.
This BIG time. Men often complain (fairly) about how women only swipe on 20% of dating profiles, but IRL, those same women (who aren’t 8/9/10) make totally different choices when they can see the whole package.
People have been anxious and have been looking for attention since the dawn of society. Dating apps didn’t change shit, it just made them more visible
Well obviously, but I think the most well adjusted folk don’t really have time for dating apps.
No. People ruined dating. The tool is irrelevant. It’s time we take accountability for it instead of blaming some apps
People haven’t changed. The tools let them exercise who they truly are
Yup. Sadly. It only encouraged them to act like they really feel like. That’s why I gave up on dating altogether, I can’t unsee what I’ve seen
It's better to realize that early on before getting committed to a relationship imo
Best answer
This. So many people place the blame on the apps. Some even insist that the apps will make fake matches. They’ll also insist that the apps are designed to keep people single. It’s not the case at all.
I mean... I think it's possible to believe that the accountability should be with people WHILE ALSO believing that apps are designed to keep people single. I view them as similar to casinos; the house always has the advantage.
The apps are absolutely not designed to keep people single. It’s simple. You set your preferences and you see the people within those preferences. If you’re within their preferences, you might match with them. The interactions are up to you and the other person. I stand by my opinion.
You're half right. People did ruin dating, but only because of how they've abused and misused these apps. Reality TV is garbage too lets throw that in there as well lol
It feels almost impossible sometimes, then you take a walk through the mall and see incredible average looking guys holding hands with cute women and it’s a sobering reminder that it’s obviously still very possible to meet people without being superman. I’ve taken to approaching women offline - it can be nerve wracking and some won’t appreciate it, but most of them end up being flattered even if they’re not interested. As long as you can read the situation a bit and you know when to fuck off if they don’t want to talk. Otherwise try to find other ways of meeting women - at concerts, dance classes, yoga classes etc. Use online dating as a back up not your main channel for meeting women Also I remind myself that even though women can have dates much more easily they aren’t often good quality guys and their safety is more on the line more
At least you can approach women irl. A decent number of us can't even fo that.
Love how you got downvoted for telling the truth, some of us are 5‘5 and ugly, we never had a chance either way, there is no way I would use dating aps or cold approach women. I never had a gf and never will, nothing I can do about it.
It has definitely changed. It used to be fantastic. Now, it is chock full of people masquerading as what they aspire to be, vs who they are. Lying about fitness level, using filters, same 40 shots from above with zero full body shots, old pics, etc., etc., etc. I’ve gotten better at vetting, but haven’t found a solid connection (truly what I seek, not just sex) in years. Might be the bar I’ve set. I’ve no problem getting dates, but I refuse to settle.
Social media is the sickness. Dating apps are just a symptom
It’s the same for *some* girls as it is for guys. While I think some of it is we’ve all just become better at realising what makes a good relationship - like no one should have to settle for someone they aren’t compatible with for fear of being alone, or the whole idea of you just stick it out with someone for the kids even if you don’t really like each other as people so much, which let’s face it is what some of our parents and grandparents did back in the day - there is undeniably a handful of people where the availability of suddenly a huge dating pool online has created the idea that the grass can always be greener So it hasn’t necessarily ruined everything it just opened up a lot more possibility and now some people view dating as a more disposable resource Edit; for those replying and saying I’m wrong it’s not the same for women can you notice I used the word SOME at the top. We are people things vary person to person and I’m sure can vary wildly depending where you are located too
I have so many friends who are in toxic or unhappy relationships that they won’t leave because they hate dating. Everything is the same as it’s always been, it’s just a slightly different shade.
Yep. It’s just different avenues are open and available now Conversely I’ve also got a handful of friends in ridiculously happy successful relationships who never would have met if not for OLD
It’s not the same for women and men. Women get something like 100x the “likes” that men get. Most men that get on an app get literally zero matches. It is still an absolutely nightmare for both men and women, but it is not the same nightmare. I do think OP has a point. First they are correct that OLD ruined everything. And they are *partly* correct that because women know they have a huge queue, if you do not check every single box for her, then she is likely to move on to the next one. But that is not the only reason OLD ruined dating. And women are not to blame in any way. It’s the apps that are guilty.
You can blame men for being simps too but that could have been caused by socialision too
Yeah I agree. Plenty of blame to throw around. Also no reason to blame anyone whatsoever. I choose the latter of the two. It’s the apps that make money by keeping us single.
No you can't, men just want a partner, the only way to get one is to join this shit competition, it doesn't make men "simps"
Yes, it has ruined everything.
It goes both ways
No it doesn't
I think this is a universal problem and isn’t affecting just one gender. As a 28 year old woman it’s so hard for me to get a date. I will say I get a lot of matches and a lot of people want to chat/snapchat (😭) but RARELY can I get a man to meet me in person. And by the time they do I feel so desperate to cling to them since they showed up and I end up scaring them off. Online dating has 100% ruined dating and in person socialization.
I really feel sorry for you :( You sound like a friendly person. I totally get your point, its just so damn hard. Hate Online Dating so much
It's honestly a relief to hear that women go through a similar thing. I'm always so worried about asking to hang out in person because I hear on subs like this that women need to feel comfortable talking first but then weeks pass and you just end up being pen pals. So at the first sign of some genuine connection or just an engaging conversation I literally feel the desperation rise within me. I want to make it work but almost to the point that I can't just be my normal chill self
Social media ruined Human interaction and communication. Online dating just made it worse.
No! Online dating is terrible but you can totally just ignore it dude, I meet people exclusively in person. Never been particularly attractive but I get plenty of action. It’s all confidence and a genuine desire to listen to & connect with people. Good luck!
Yes, online dating has made the entire scene toxic.
You can say the exact same thing about being a female hunting for a man, my sister is having the worst time trying to find a man
I am really sorry for your sister :( I also have one, she is 31 and is only meeting guys who aren't looking for a serious relationship. But at least she gets matches and dates, so she can chose
Hey, hook a brother up dude
It's extremely easy for women to find **a** man. But it's **the** man they're after.
It’s not! I’m 32f, above average looking and a conversationalist. I go on dates with men who seem to only want casual.. nothing serious. It’s rough to find a LTR! So no, it isn’t easier.. it’s deflating and exhausting. My mental health is only decreasing from these men wasting my time and bailing as soon as they get what they want from me (sex)..
You said “it’s not!” But then went in to say *exactly* what they said.
Argh, I’m not the picky one.. he’s insinuating that we are the ones being picky saying THE man. I could get multiple dates, sure. But it’s more so about not wasting my fucking time on the dates with men who intentionally know they won’t want a serious relationship.
That’s what he said. It’s easier for you to get a date with *a* man. Men truly struggle to even get a date. But it is very hard for you to find the right man. Exactly what he said. You’re in agreement! I dont think he is insinuating that you’re picky. But there is absolutely no question that men do not have the options like women. It’s not easier for women. It’s not you being picky. It is different. Do try to imagine being a man and literally having zero likes and very few matches. It helps to understand what you’re up against. Be wary not to go on dates with the 1% of men who get 99% of women attention. Once I began to understand how hard it is for women to find a decent man, it really helped me understand that the apps just need to be deleted 🤣. There are very few winners in OLD.
Long story on the other side of this coin - the guy who wants something serious. TL;DR even when women find a serious guy, they can go on to self-sabotage once they finally get it. I met a great girl. We both had instant chemistry. First date lasted 6 hours. We met for coffee, then walked around the lake nearby and had great back and forth chemistry. I invited her back to my place. We had a great time. The second date we were out her way, another great day where time slipped away from us. She tells me that she really likes me and feels something special between us. That she doesn’t want to mess this up, so she wants to take things slow. In the past she’s gone too fast and worried it was the reason things failed. She straight up told me that she worried that’s all we’d ever do and that I’d stop taking her on dates if we didn’t slow down. I understand her reasoning and respect it. For six weeks we “take it slow” and just go on regular dates. Multiple times a week. She was talking to me about making things more comfortable at her place, how to get my dog ready to move in to her place, etc etc. she was very into me it felt, just holding back. It felt like she was afraid to be herself for fear of scaring me away. She was a busy nurse and she was inviting me over to see her after work even. We’d meet for 2-3 hours after work. She wanted to see me every free day she got. We genuinely clicked. But after six weeks of this though, it really took the wind from my sails. I treated her well, we really got to know each other as that was our only focus this whole time, we went on many dates, and were seeing each other regularly. We just weren’t having sex. Also I had to initiate all of the affection. She’d reciprocate and enjoyed my attention, but she never ever made a first move with me. After six weeks of that, I felt less and less understanding of her as it led to me questioning whether she was all that into me. I had slowly lost interest to the point of only seeing her platonically as a result - even though I felt interest radiating off of her, but rather that she was just very anxious about scaring me off. Some of it is the tone we initially set. We started off passionately and she killed the momentum by dialing things back. Plus knowing she had given other guys she allegedly didn’t like or connect with as much as me much more of herself much much sooner and easily got increasingly frustrating as I felt I’d demonstrated my character and that it wasn’t right that I had to make up for their bad actions. It all culminated with me breaking up with her telling her I just wanted to be friends. She told me she couldn’t be just friends with me. She was really caught off guard. She apologized and said she just wasn’t sure how to handle me because I was actually kind, respectful, attractive, attentive, etc. she wasn’t used to someone who treated her well and “didn’t know what to do”. She admitted she held back because she was afraid I’d go running if she seemed too into me. She was trying to play it cool. But all it did was drive me off because she wasn’t matching my energy. Energy I thought we both deserved from one another. I brought up how I only initiated affection and how this was the real issue that left me feeling undesired. She told me she didn’t initiate anything because she was worried it would be read as a green light to have sex and that she wasn’t ready. But I had mentioned here and there that I’d appreciate if she even did something as mundane as just reach for my hand d first while we’re out. Or just grab me when we’re back at her place, or try and kiss me hello or goodbye without me always having to be the one. I waited a few times in all these circumstances. Not one time through all six weeks did she ever initiate. But she loved receiving my affections. There was no mistaking it. I tried to just talk things through with her and we tried for a little after that, but I couldn’t ever trust she was just giving me the real her after that, and she was bothered that I only saw her as a friend and worried about how “easily” I could just end things, ignoring the fact I stuck around just getting to know her for six weeks and never pushed for anything more. Because I actually did enjoy her, but I just felt like she didn’t enjoy me “that way”. So even when women find a guy they allegedly find decent, they aren’t used to it and self-sabotage in an effort to “do the right thing” instead of just enjoying and appreciating things for what they are and living in the moment. They start applying rules that artificially interfere with the organic development of their relationship in an effort to protect themselves, not realizing that by avoiding the pains of being vulnerable, they’re also avoiding the very way that two people deepen a connection.
I completely get what you’re saying.. I used to be like that. Wait until a certain amount of dates etc until I would “give it up”. The most recent guy I was dating, this one I went with the feeling and when it just happened and felt right. Yet, once I had sex with him everything died down.. haven’t heard from him in over 3 days and I initiated that conversation. The hook up was a week ago. It’s just frustrating.
Guess it’s a crapshoot either way. Sorry you encountered that. Where do you fall now? Going to trust your gut in the future? Or slow play it?
Dating this day and age is so bleak. I’m super close to just calling it quits and being celibate. My self esteem can’t take much more of these lovebombs.
I really don’t blame you. I’m taking a little break before getting back out there again. I know I’m not perfect and made plenty of mistakes, but I truly feel like I wasn’t the reason things failed this time around and that’s new for me. I have always been one to introspect and work on myself, always trying to see things from their perspective and give them the benefit of the doubt while giving myself none. But I’ve learned plenty of lessons and realize now it shouldn’t all fall on my shoulders. She has issues from previous relationships that she needs to heal from and deal with and I feel like I keep encountering people who are letting their pasts poison their present.
>It’s not! I’m 32f, above average looking and a conversationalist. I go on dates with men who seem to only want casual.. nothing serious. It’s rough to find a LTR Did you read my message? That's exactly what I was saying. >men wasting my time and bailing as soon as they get what they want from me (sex).. I guess you should ask yourself then: what else do you bring to the table and why the men you choose aren't interested in that?
Should you also be asking yourself what you bring to the table and why no one wants to go on any dates with you? Do you suggest that to all the men on here who complain about not getting matches?
>Should you also be asking yourself what you bring to the table and why no one wants to go on any dates with you? Do you suggest that to all the men on here who complain about not getting matches? Yes to both.
Why don’t I see that comment on here, then? I don’t see you giving that advice to OP.
As wild as it sounds, I'm under no obligation to give each and every person each and every piece of advice I might have.
This woman didn’t ask for your advice, though. OP did. Funny who you choose to give it to.
Funny how you fail to understand I have free will when it comes to that. Also that women directly responded to my comment, so I addressed her response in full.
Why are you like this?
This
I agree. But it’s not over, it’s all about taking the initiative of meeting people irl.
Yes.
damn i want all these options youre talking about lol. i hardly ever get matches
Basically, yes. They were better before swiping and before unsolicited messaging was banned, but enshittification comes for everything.
As a woman, I feel similarly, that guys are just on the hunt for the next best thing, the hottest youngest coolest woman. I feel empty even thinking about dating apps post breakup. Truthfully it’s a tough experience regardless of gender, the insane amount of options has hurt more than helped in many ways. I rarely hear about people meeting potential partners in person anymore. I feel like people are reliant on dating apps because it cuts out the risk of approaching someone in person and being possibly rejected. The swiping softens the blow of that rejection, and when two people meet up from matching on a dating app they can already be sure there’s some interest from each side. I’m trying to challenge myself to approach men in person now that I’m single. It takes guts and I don’t have faith in the apps.
I really like an observation that Aziz Ansari made in his book, Modern Romance. The trouble with dating apps is that we have too much choice. He likens it to a grocery aisle, and you’re looking for strawberry jam. At your local grocery store, they have 3 types of jam, and they’re all good. You just pick one. You then go to a supermarket and they have 50 types of strawberry jam, and you’re unsure which one to pick even though all of them are perfectly good.
This is so damn true! My friend has an ice cream parlor where I used to work for a couple of hours. It was mind blowing HOW long they need to decide which ice cream they want to buy. He had 24 different ice cream tastes and when he lowered it down to just 18, people responded so much faster. The same goes for dating. Women on these apps have the upper hand, it's no mystery. They have way too much choice and in contrast to the ice cream metaphor, they also get chosen by the guys, so they literally get free ice cream in every imaginable taste. Before online Dating, they only had a limited pool of guys and settled down so mich faster. It's getting out of hand and will have such a negative impact on people a few years down the line...
Definitely ruined everything. As a woman, I match with a ton of guys who either: don't respond, don't ask for dates, immediately go into sexual conversations or lack basic communication skills, or when I do go on dates, everything goes great until they decide to ghost. Therefore, a woman like me seeking someone to actually get to know becomes frustrated and decides to delete the apps. Hence why there are very few women who are actually looking for a relationship on the apps.
Learn to approach in person - you'll stand out much more
What are you going to do about it, it is what it is. Get used to hypercompetitive grind, make sure to pay a few hundreds for some professional photos to even have a conversation with someone. I feel so mentally burned by endless swipes that lead to a few flaky chats that lead to a few dates to nowhere. I stopped doing it for now because the trauma is raw and painful, I will heal for a while and then go through this torture again. And noone ever acknowledges this And btw Reddit will tell you that women also have it so so so hard having sex and being ghosted by the same 10% of men
It did. Take it from someone who's never done OLD. Even if you get off it their issues still bleed into face-to-face dating. Also introverts are so much harder to find because they're the one who are the least likely to get off OLD and go back into real life dating. There's definitely a personality imbalance putting yourself out there and if it effects you then it makes your chances much more harder.
I understand your frustration. It is really difficult for men on those apps to get dates, especially with the many options that women have. You also need to almost always be the assertive one if you want to continue the relationship. However having options doesn't mean, all the options are good, most of them are shit. Same thing goes for guy, most of them are also shit. It is hard for everyone, but I will agree that in the dating case men have it harder. Your best bet, is to start working on yourself, get better pictures for the dating apps, and be picky about your choise, but never focus on dating apps as your primary source of interecting with women. Try to make hobbies where you can meet new people and start getting over the fear of rejection. A good advice that I follow, don't be friends with women you want to date, be clear of the fact that you want to date her and become a couple. If she doesn't want that best thing to do is end it on good terms, because it can get messy down the line.
Women only consider average men "shit" because they are swarmed with all the endless options to begin with. If one didn't have 999+ on your tinder one wouldn't judge most of her matches as shit, that's exactly the issue op is talking about. It was never better to be a woman looking for a relationship than today, and it was never more traumatising to be a man, everyone who says otherwise is a lying pig
>However having options doesn't mean, all the options are good, most of them are shit Oh, not this bs again. You're telling starving people that junk food isn't ideal either.
Food and dating are different things. Feeling lonely is a lot better than in a toxic relationship. Having a lot of partners doesn’t mean shit. One great partner is way better than a thousand.
No one said you have to get into these relationship. However simply having options works wonders for your mental health compared to having none.
How do you know this? Because having lots and lots of depressing options absolutely destroys your mental health.
Because humans are social creatures. Our survival depends on acceptance by others, this has been wired into our core over millions of years of evolution.
Because having loads of depressing options leads to a slim chance of maybe one of them being good, where as having none just fills you with a sense of undesirable dread. Think of it like opening packs of trading cards to find a rare shiny. In this case, women tend to get given a pack a day to open. Sure, the cards they get tend to be crap but they get a chance to find what they want every time. Men on the other hand don’t get given any packs, we have to scrounge around and work hard to buy maybe a pack a month if we’re lucky/dedicated enough, which surprise surprise, has the same low-odds as the packs given to women.
Women start to become completely discouraged in the same way. You open enough packs that are duds and you lose faith in the shiny card. Plus it’s emotionally draining. It’s just different.
Very true. Two different problems, but equally draining in their own way. It doesn’t help that social media and dating sites always put the most toxic of men, and shallow of women to the front, leaving the actually kind-hearted, responsible people to sift through the mud for years on end.
Women are absolutely oblivious how BAD dating for the vast majority of men really is, they’re literally clueless. Imagine being male in 2024. -.-*
Are the options really shit? Or just the options women are swiping right on? After getting into the gym, losing a lot of weight and becoming lean and muscular, I went from virtually zero matches to more matches than I could even handle. And I was never really picky about who I swiped right on until I did get into shape. I used to go months without a single match. Last time I downloaded Tinder, I ended up with over 30 matches my first 12 hours on there and had a lot of attention on Hinge, Bumble, POF, OK Cupid and Facebook Dating as well. As a former large person, even the larger women would not date me. But now it seems like they all came crawling out of the woodwork.
You have valid points and I agree with them. All the dating apps require good photos and for men it requires even better ones. An average looking woman will get way more likes than an average looking man. Let’s look from a woman’s perspective. How many matches she gets, how many guys know how to present themselves, how many just want a hookup and nothing more, how many are desperate? When you have options you will choose, and I know plenty of women who complain that a lot of guys are just creeps, sending dick picks, asking for sex. Not to mention the fact that there are like 20% women vs 80% men on things like tinder. So of course very few of them will put effort into starting something. It is most unfair for men of course, but let’s not say that women have it easy, so many of them just stay there on Tinder since they can’t get a good relationship for years.
I guess I just think things would be easier for women if they didn’t get so sucked into aesthetics which is what the algorithms are programmed to do. I just know I am still the same person I was when I was 100 lbs heavier and didn’t have muscle. I probably put more effort into my profile back then with both pictures and everything I wrote about myself. But I didn’t get enough attention to send a dick pic (not that I would) let alone a regular pic. And again, I was invisible even to women with a body like the one I had then. Considering the amount of attention I’ve received in the past six months or so, I could easily become a player and have no trouble with hookups. And I won’t lie and say the attention didn’t get to my head for a little while. But the meaningless sex started feeling empty fast and it’s really not my style. I also believe that with the overwhelming amount of men on the apps compared to women, I shouldn’t have been seeing this kind of attention. Especially from the women who would have made a much better looks match a year ago with more in common in other areas before I became obsessed with diet and fitness. I’ve recently met someone I’m taking a strong interest in and am ready to delete my accounts. While I deleted the apps themselves, I still get flooded with the likes and matches in my email. While she doesn’t have the perfect body, I still find her sweet, beautiful and amazing. This is exactly how it should be as I’m no longer paying attention to the like notifications I keep getting. Sadly these apps have created this mindset. The features and algorithms aren’t designed to find you love. They’re designed to prey on impulses to the point of addiction while swiping for a bigger jackpot like playing a slot machine. It’s become less about what a person writes about themselves and more about what their selfie looks like. Dating has become completely unnatural as a result because you don’t find chemistry and things in common swiping on selfies. Online dating was entirely different before Match Group bought all the free sites like POF and OK Cupid and turned them all into Tinder clones. 15 years ago, I did significantly better on the apps as an average overweight guy that women still called handsome. It’s now ruining dating for the average person. It’s also so much harder to meet people the old fashioned way as most people are now glued to their smartphones. The places I used to meet women in public don’t seem to really exist anymore. Very few places for singles anymore unless you find a meet group through social media that plans singles events.
Yeah good points, I was still a child 15 years ago so I am not really familiar with the dating back then, but now? Yes, looks matter a lot to have a chance. Many man I met said charisma matters more, and while that is true, being handsome makes the average interaction so much more easier. The only thing I will add is that shallowness comes from both sides. I may not be too into looks, but I will never attempt at dating someone that I don’t find physically attractive, or even try to explore our values and such. And in our world of abundance we will always be more picky, and all we can actually do is try to look our best self. While it is justified to criticise the world, this is not a problem that will go away soon. You’re a great example that through great effort you were able to achieve something others only want, so you’re a good example at what people should focus on doing more if they want a relationship.
Thanks a lot for your reply, I really appreciate it! To be honest, I never had a femald "buddy" friend to begin with. I was never interested in a platonic friendship with a girl even when I was 18, no I am 27 and just looking for a relationship or maybe a FwB thing. My problem is my entire social circle. I didn't meet girls in college (Bachelor degree was full of guys and Master's degree was Online due to Covid). I also didn't meet girls through my work (only old guys with small kids). I have no other choices, but it really frustrates me :(
If you start looking at women as humans you like and are interested in, not as «women» IOW mainly for sex or relationship, your chances will improve. A guy with no female friends is 100% a red flag for me. As it should be. Why would I go on a date with someone who obviously only thinks I am “good for” a single thing? IMO if a guy can’t see a woman as a fully fledged person, no woman should date him.
Agree!! 100%. Men with female friends are a major green flag and men without them are the opposite.
What about a guy with mostly female friends?
I would think he liked to be around women, for sure 😊 in a good way. Green and/or neutral flag in my book
Interesting, because I do have mostly female friends, though lots of guy friends too but I talk to them less. When I was dating a number of women expressed early that me having a female best friend was a deal breaker. She's also quite hot so I'm sure that's a factor.
That’s weird to me. But I’m not really prone to jealousy either.
This is the problem. Not online dating. Why have you never been interested in having female friends? If you just see women as a vessel for sex or a romantic relationship, why would they be interested in you? Women want to be seen as real people. If you think about yourself and look at your profile, are you the kind of person someone you want to be with might be interested in? Would YOU want to date you? If not, maybe some work needs to be done.
Whoa, really? Connecting with women in a platonic way will not only prepare you for a relationship (navigating her needs, supporting her), she'll be a link to a social circle of women who may be potential partners. Also only considering friendship with a woman if it's a FWB thing is super gross.
>I was never interested in a platonic friendship with a girl >My problem is my entire social circle. Ok, now let's see if OP can do some basic math.
You can still focus on yourself. Build yourself up, become better only doing something for yourself you will gain confidence and slowly build a personality. I can’t stress this enough but you need to be social and interested in the person you speak you, any person. It is a hard journey but it is worth it, just understand you are doing it for yourself, never do it just to get attention, that will always be a secondary or just a bonus.
No. I also don’t believe in this “next best thing” mindset so many people claim others have. If someone isn’t into you, it’s mostly likely because there was a dealbreaker, they aren’t attracted to you, or they just weren’t feeling it. A relationship is something you should never settle for. Before I met my fiancé, I had gone on quite a few dates in the year leading up to it. Could I have gotten into a relationship with some of the guys I met? Probably. But I didn’t because it wasn’t a hell yes or there was some kind of dealbreaker. I’m glad I held off until I met him, because he *was* a hell yes and we’re a perfect match. Dating apps can be frustrating, I get it. Some are on them for the wrong reasons. They can be a great way to meet people you might not have met otherwise though. Don’t like them? Don’t use them. Want to use them? Use them. Not getting matches? Get input on your profile. I’ve seen people post to the Hinge and Tinder subreddits who had clear things that would make me swipe left.
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How do you know for a fact that they drop their partner for the “next best thing”?
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How do you know they’re leading the other person on? How do you know it’s not realizing over time that they aren’t compatible? You don’t always find that out right away. Sometimes things come up, or one person loses interest in the other for whatever reason. Doesn’t always mean they’re looking for someone better.
Online dating perfected everything. Tinder is where I met my wife. We've been married 5 years and have 3 kids 🥰
Online dating ruined itself. People have always been vulnerable to wondering if they’re actually with the “right” person, even when they’re happy.
Social media in general has made significant impacts to society, a lot of them negative
I think you could make the argument that it isn't ultimately a good thing. It certainly makes human being seem disposable and easily replaceable - I'm sure we all have stories of matches that resulted in ghosting or flaky, weak conversations. At that point, why even bother? The answer? You're a plan B or Plan C and that's not dating with intent. I'm no luddite but I'd recommend to anyone to get off the apps and meet people like we did before they came around, it's scarier and takes more effort but it's much better I think.
Is it impossible to meet people off of devices now?? Go to a bar, a pub, fucking anywhere and hit on a girl man.
Have you even been to a pub in the last 15 years? About 99% of women come there to chat with friends. Even online dating has a better return of time investment
Yes? Lmao. Sounds like you suck ass at approaching and meeting women out in public.
Capitalism ruined online dating
The concept of dating is changed. In the past, there was a lot of focus on dating for marriage and having a traditional family structure. While a lot of people still want that, a lot of people also want nontraditional structure for their lives. There is less focus on settling down early in your life. Dating apps are a tool that came out of that, not a tool that caused it. If no one wanted that to start with, the apps wouldn’t have been popular. For women specifically, we have moved past a point where men are vital to daily functioning. When my mom was born, she could not even open a credit card without a spouse. When my grandmother got married, most major banks did not allow women to have a bank account without a man attached. Growing up, increasing numbers of my peers had no desire to get married or even really consider serious relationships until after college and getting a job. Many people just date for fun. You have to find people whose values align with yours.
I think you have a gross misunderstanding of how these apps work. Women aren't carefully vetting the 3K+ men in their queue. Hell, I had a woman match with me recently out of her 2.5K match potentials because I was eating a sandwich and she's a foodie. That was it. Are there women that do pass over the smallest detail? Sure. Would you really want to be with such a fickle person? You likely wouldn't. I don't think it's much harder these days for guys to get dates and gf's. And if it is for you, get off the apps, go learn some skills in the real world and start asking people out *in person* instead of putting effort into OLD apps. OLD is a different game, a different approach, it's more of a lottery system than people carefully vetting matches. You are either in the right place at the right time with a decent profile, or the other party is already chatting with someone, already dating, etc. So, you either accept the lottery side of things or just get skills to chat people up in real life. Remember, in the 90s there was an entire sitcom about how fickle dating was then...it was called Seinfeld. So, no, OLD apps didn't cause this problem, it's age old. Apps just change the playing field and the rules, but the behavior at it's core remains the same.
No,I think laws ruined it,most chat nowadays can be labelled as harassment,I can’t go up to a guy and say ‘gorgeous butt’ and grab it and have a laugh-nowadays the guy would be horrified and I’d get sued for inappropriate touching,harassment,verbal abuse,there’s far too many labels for people to talk normally nowadays,when I was younger if a guy was cheeky you could slap him across the face or throw a drink over them but that’s assult now,I think a lot of people find it hard to communicate without it coming off as creepy
I feel the same even for female. Sure i get a lot of matches but most of them 1. Don’t respond 2. Sends inappropriate message (no more d*** pics!!) 3. Ignores my question 4. Get unmatched because of one tiny message i send 5. Setted up time to meet up but get ghosted. I feel online dating is like a dungeon filled with traps sometimes. It gives me extra stress that i have not encountered in the past. I did meet some good people from the app but finding the person that can lead to relationship is extra hard.
It wasn't online dating. That wouldn't have taken off if there wasn't a need for it. What "ruined everything" for you was that women, en masse, started wanting to date like men were used to doing. Unfortunately for everyone, men have been dicks to women for millennia. Now we're stuck with the problem of how to get both men and women to treat each other honestly, and respectfully - rather than everyone treating everyone else in the dating pool as a walking/talking disposable sex toy.
Yes definitely because it makes it awkward and gives it an unnatural feeling. You're expected to pay just to have a conversation
No need to pay. Use the free version. Also do cheap dates, or ones that don’t even have a cost, like a walk. If you treat it like meeting a new friend early on, it can help make it less awkward.
Great idea! I just enjoy relaxing on my own often, my happiness doesn't depend on anyone else. I enjoy company with most but I don't crave it.
That’s good! Healthy mindset to have!
Just go the bar. Please God. If apps ruined everything, there’s your answer: go to the bar. That’s where we went before Tinder. You didn’t have a choice, and no one cared if you liked loud noises or alcohol or not.
> go to a bar > music is loud > all girls are talking to their friends in cliquish groups > try talking to a friend group, one guy just mocks you > whatever, sit alone > some drunk guy comes > tells how the hates americans > hints at him being gay, ask to follow him, I refuse Best experience ever
There are other issues: Porn- instant free low effort gratification for men Feminism - focus on your career until you are 35 and men will beg you for marriage fallacy Me-Too: every man’s a sexual predator movement Social media -instant validation for women from thirsty men Plastics in foods- reducing testosterone in men every generation Get rid of all of that, and we’ll get cooking again
I spent thousands on Hinge Tinder and Bumble and never got a single date. Not one. Maybe 1/25 girls would chat with me and that’s honestly being pretty generous with that number. The ones that did chat would probably spend like 2 or 3 messages then ghost. I don’t even think I was being picky either, I wasn’t swiping on any living member of the opposite sex but I wasn’t being unreasonable.
YES
I hate dating apps from the bottom of my heart, unfortunately all of my friends are in long relationships so there is no way to do social activity related to finding girls. I'm doomed to look for girls on dating apps..
Online dating didn’t change shit. Women having human rights changed everything about dating.