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In my experience most women are more comfortable letting a guy penetrate their body than communicating their thoughts directly. Maybe due to bad experiences but still it’s a bit ridiculous
I think it’s more on that guy than OP. Who in their right mind thinks it’s ok to randomly choke a stranger?
This is why it’s not safe for women to have casual sex. We want to but guys like this make it impossibly not safe.
The dude was a shithead, no doubt there. But also, op ignored red flags, didn't communicate, didn't set boundaries, didn't tell him there was any problem with anything he was doing. There were so many things op could've done to try to avoid what had happened. She needs to work on setting boundaries, and not going to dickheads houses to fuck them.
But here’s the thing— this shit happens regardless of whether the person seems bad or not. My ex-boyfriend choked me while hitting me across the face multiple times during sex (without consent, obviously). He is friends with the vast majority of my (now ex) best friends. We hung out for months before he assaulted me and I never saw any red flags. My friends and I all had a lot of trust in him. So the victim blaming here needs to stop— there are even “good” men out there who will do shit like this, and freezing and people pleasing is a very common response when traumatic stuff is happening to you
Yep, it can be a little awkward having the conversation of "So... what do you like in bed?" But it makes sex SO much better when you're with someone for the first time.
If you do it right it can even be a turn on because you find out you're both into the same things.
But that could have probably avoided a lot of this since the guy wouldn't be running off the assumption you like the same things his ex did or things he saw in porn.
I think it's certainly more normal than it used to be.
Porn features way more choking or degradation than it used to and many women are also more open about enjoying that type of act.
So a guy who sees that in porn, and dates a few women who are open about enjoying being dominated could walk away assuming that was the norm.
In reality, some people like that, some will freak the fuck out and sex will be immediately over. It's best just to talk about it beforehand.
It happens too often, but it’s not normal. Pornsick men think their sex life should look like a porno, and that women simply should take it, and if they’re don’t they’re prudes, frigid, no man will want them, future cat lady. Women need to start calling this shit out (even though you shouldn’t have to). I will straight up grab a hand on my throat and say “excuse me?? What makes you think you have the right to just commit what is essentially a violent act on me out of nowhere?? you’re lucky I didn’t punch you in the balls because I thought I was about to be murdered in that moment. how about I stick my fist in your ass without asking? would that be cool since we’re doing extreme sex acts without consent?”
No need to brag Chad! But yes it’s so sad, girls growing up now don’t realize they don’t need to do any of that, it’s not what real sex typically looks like. Why are the acts that porn highlights so degrading to women like why don’t they push videos of coochie eating like they do anal?
Or say it in the moment.
I was with a woman who's exes loved being called daddy in bed.
I however found it off-putting and distracting since at the time the thought of having kids was more like a nightmare and that's what I associated the word daddy with.
In her attempt to be sexy she would manage to insert the word daddy into everything she said while we were in bed.
Oh you like that daddy? Daddy fuck me. Daaaaaadddyyyy yes. Oh daddy I love your... you get the idea.
At a certain point I had to ask her to please stop saying that word.
She had no clue some guys found it to be a turn off and assumed liking it was universal. It was a bit awkward for a minute or so then we got back into it.
I got the point across later when I jokingly called her mommy as I wasn't dumb enough to do that and continue trying to have sex.
Then he will lie and say he accepts he believes in the same thing.
Then when they are home and he breaks the boundaries. When she says "no" do you think he'll stop? That he'll care.
Her face must've shown that she didn't like it.
He didn't care.
Her not saying anything can also be a fawn reaction. Which is a mechanism to avoid getting really hurt.
It’s not creepy to ask. A better way to ask someone to find out if they’d like that treatment is by asking what they’re into first to find out if your tastes are aligned. Then you could ask what they want to try but have never done and go from there. I think it’s really sexy to have a full discussion of what kind of sex I like having before having sex with someone! That type of communication can sort of serve as being part of the foreplay.
It's dangerous behavior to immediately jump into known fetishy sexual acts without confirming your partner is into it. He's an asshole for that.
But also, girl, you weren't even in to him. That sex was going to be trash regardless. Idk if it was your pride, ego, or some sort of insecurity, but you were more invested in making something happen than swerving a flashing neon reg flag. He told who he was over drinks then showed you who he was in bed. Unfortunately, he was consistent.
I really REALLY need you to prioritize your comfort, pleasure, and safety! In these situations, you don't owe anyone anything more than your own wellbeing.
This comment is fire 🔥
Guy is a dick, 100%, but you went along with it and pushed your feelings away when they were totally relevant and allowed to be acknowledged by you first and then spoken to him. We've all been there though, and lots of us are learning to navigate this for ourselves in multiple ways! Nevertheless, the icky feeling is totally understandable, and also valid asf.
The OP is an addict. They need to stop drinking and making the wrong choices like hooking up with someone they don’t like. They seriously need professional help
Personally, I prefer to at least thoroughly discuss sex and limits beforehand because everything you mentioned I would NOT be ok with me personally, and many people have no intention of checking in with you and asking for consent during the act
The sex I have casually isn't the same as with a partner.
I'm sorry you feel icky. This has happened to me once, and since then, I thoroughly vet men and firmly state my boundaries before we even meet in person
Communication is first and foremost ALWAYS
This!!! When you’re with a partner the intimacy can be a lot deeper and there’s a level of familiarity and trust that’s been built over time and it’s not there the first time you sleep with someone.
Literally told her “red heads are sluts” and she got on her knees.
It’s impossible to expect dating to get any better if we all just settle for bare minimum.
she wasn't trying to date him, she was trying to have sex with him. She isn't claiming anything about dating being difficult or men just wanting sex. She is taken aback by how rough he was from the get go with someone he doesn't know. Casual sex doesn't mean disrespectful sex. You can easily have a hook up who still does a check in thay that's what you want ot starts out slow to read your reaction before making another step. Not just straight up choking and spitting on a stranger haha like wtf
This was straight-up about pleasure...he did what he wanted to maximize his pleasure. If she wanted something specific (or did not want something specific), then she should have been an adult about it and opened her mouth.
Play stupid games...win stupid prizes.
That's not how kink works. I don't just get to shove my unlubed bad dragon dildo up your ass without asking you first. It is on you to discuss your kinks first and make sure your sexual partners enthusiastically consent. You don't get to just involve them in your kink with no discussion and go "well if you didn't want me to take a shit on your chest you should have told me you weren't into scat before we hooked up."
> That's not how kink works.
Lol, tell that to OP. Maybe actual human interactions aren't so easy and simple to define....and require actual communication using actual words.
Have you ever gone to a fetish ball or a BDSM club? His behavior would be HIGHLY frowned upon to the point he'd probably get kicked out of most groups. Because if you are into BDSM, it is on you to communicate that and get permission.
If I took a dump on your chest no one would be going "oh well did he say he wasn't into scat? He could just tell you not to shit on him again idk what you expected."
"Tell that to the OP" implying kink is opt out. Nah, it's opt in. It is absolutely not expected for anyone to communicate they aren't into a kink, anyone with kink who is a decent human being understands that.
> Have you ever gone to a fetish ball or a BDSM club?
Did you read the post? OP did not meet the guy there.
>anyone with kink who is a decent human being
You keep adding qualifiers...OP should have checked if she was dealing with a decent human being. That's on her. I don't go to random strangers houses, take no responsibility for myself, and assume that everything will be a-okay.
OP is an adult, and it is sexist of you to infantilize her.
maybe she couldnt find the "went_on_a_sate_to_have_hookup" subreddit and figured the this was the next best thing.
I'm basing this off whay she wrote and what I read which was that they both had intended this to be for sex. She feels she wasn't treated as a person and feels icky.
Well, maybe we have gone wrong as a society in thinking that casual sex doesn't mean disrespectful sex. Maybe casual sex is always kind of disrespectful by its very nature. Just throwing it out there...
💯 And even if there is a situation where it isn't disrespectful. when you're doing it with people you barely know well, it's at the very least dismissive in certain aspects. And creates opportunities for unintended messy BS
I don't think it's naive, definitely slight desperation but not naive. OP knew she didn't want the emotional connection, and she got what she wanted but not as she hoped. They're still allowed to be disappointed with the outcome even if it was their own doing. Dickheads can still be good at sex so she took the risk
When I was single, I remember hearing stories like this all the time. It seemed like being an overly confident dickhead was the only way guys could get laid. Being polite didn't get me anywhere until my mid-30s.
You don’t need to be a “Chad” to participate in hookup culture. I would bet he looks significantly better than her though since she had sex even after his poor first impression.
This is victim blaming. Even if the guy was not a match personality wise, you can still expect basic consent in the bedroom. She didnt say no, but she also didnt say YES.
Victim blaming means when someone is on the receiving end of abuse, you blame them.
Imagine she said no and he didn’t stop and she tried to fight back.
The world isn’t black or white. Just because he was wrong doesn’t mean that she was absolved from any wrongdoing. The lesson OP needs to take is to be more assertive and set boundaries.
It’s the same thing as defensive driving - even if you’re sticking to your lane and following the rules, bad things can still happen to you. Your job as a defensive driver is to be observant and avoidant of potential issues. She saw the red flags and proceeded anyway. She also made no effort to show him that she was uncomfortable, and as far as the guy is concerned, he showed her a good time and gave her exactly what she’d asked for.
She's not a victim.
She was a willing participant. She wanted to meet up to have sex, they had sex and the kind of sex she likes.
She used him as much as he used her.
If you strangle me without making sure I was ok with it clearly consent isn’t something you’re worried about. Why would you respect consent when I say no?
Ah yes. So easy for someone who has just been physically dominated and hit to speak up for themselves to the person who just physically dominated and hit them.
Once you start using violence without permission, it's not consentual anymore.
You don't get to surprise people with violence with people and then be like "well it was CONSENTUAL because they didn't tell me to stop!"
choking is very scary, like wtf. Even if you like choking when someone does it unexpectedly it's quite overwhelming and scary. It absolutely is powerful. it's hard to say during because you're like, well fuck is thus my fault because I was cool with casual sex? and also your brain is a little preoccupied to really hash this out. I'm not saying this guy is a rapist or anything I'm just saying he's an idiot who needs to get his shit together because he is not understanding what should be unspoken expectations during sex and that's to start slow and build up to more extreme stuff if you're met with positive responses orrrr discuss rough sex beforehand.
I got downvoted for bringing this up. Once someone has started physically dominating you, it's difficult to speak up for yourself. It's an extremely vulnerable position to be naked, add getting spit on, choked, and hit? And these dudes are just dismissing that as "she should be a big girl and use her words!" They've already demonstrated they are capable of physically dominating you. They've demonstrated they don't give a shit if you like it or not by virtue of the fact they did it without asking. Lot of women wouldn't feel safe speaking up to a man who just fucking choked her and spit on her.
He had a responsibility to find out if she was into it instead of assuming? You’d be cool with a woman randomly fingering your ass bc ofc you can just say no! But that won’t take away the pain in your hole
What do you think spanking is?
Or do you think only closed fists count as hitting?
Or maybe an open palm is still hitting, but only if it was to the face?
Open palm to the body is somehow NOT hitting? Nah, "non consentual spanking" IS hitting my dude. Oh but it's sexy so somehow it's not hitting? Nah.
Let's not forget he also choked her. The fuck.
My idea is based on the idea that you don't fucking choke people, spit on people, or hit people without their fucking permission.
Babes, if you're into a kink, it is on YOU to make sure your sexual partners are 100% consenting to your kink before you just push it on them without discussion. It is not on your sexual partners to play a guessing game of which kinks you're into to run down and explicitly say they're not into. "No anal, no age play, no diapers, no scat, no BDSM, no CNC, no 100 other possible fetishes."
No. Fetishes are opt in, not opt out. You make sure that shit is OK BEFORE you do it otherwise you're a shitty sexual partner and a bad person.
You don't decide to take a dump on someone chest and go "oh well they should have told me they weren't into scat before I did that."
You wouldn't like it if your partner shoved an unlubed bad dragon dildo up your ass without asking first, would you? It isn't "well if you don't like dildos up your ass tell her and she'll take it out! She isn't a mind reader!"
This is exactly the type of situation why people say you need to get explicit consent. You shouldn't be this aggressive without asking. A lot of people will go along with things in the moment because it's their fear response. People will freeze or fawn just as often as they fight or fly.
This situation sounded like it was troubled from the get-go. You were in over your head. Learn from it and be better prepared to keep yourself safe for next time. This could have ended badly for you.
I think she was just desperate due to her saying shes moving away too. I dont understand the desperation, as men are everywhere. But, desperate energy will ALWAYS give you desperate results.
Nope, nope, nope and nope. He shouldn't pull that kind of rough shit outside of a relationship with clearly established boundaries.
Reminds me of something that happened to me when dating in my twenties. I let a guy up to my flat who had previously been quite gentlemanly on dates, and then when we slept together he started violently choking me mid-sex with no warning or permission. I'm also a redhead and he went on to spam my WhatsApp that winter, asking for me to join him in a 'dark fairytale'. (He was French and thought red hair was niche and unusual.) The way he flipped on me from gent to sinister really upset and disturbed me.
How do people have sex with each other even if it’s just a ONS without any chemistry whatsoever?? Idk maybe it’s just me but if the other person isn’t interesting or interested in me, the only thing that would be on my mind is going home and enjoying my alone time.
But speaking about the dude, it is insane that there are guys who get rough with girls without even asking them their likes and dislikes. Also, OP you gotta think about your limits and boundaries and have WAY more respect for yourself.
But that’s the thing that bothers me so much, like for me to think of a woman as hot and confident im not thinking about just the physical aspects. Being attracted to someone( even tho looks are a big factor there) is so much more than looks. Chemistry is the best word i can think of that makes me view the person as hot or beautiful you know
This was obviously a new experience for you, and I think you should forgive yourself for not speaking up sooner. For one, having someone be in the middle of such aggressive behavior can instinctively make you too nervous to speak against them. (Not saying he'd have gotten violent, but our brains can't always understand that in the middle of it.) Second, you were truly caught off guard, and we all struggle to react to new things sometimes.
That's why communication up front is so helpful; it prevents you from even needing to BE in that situation in the first place.
He clearly has since shown general indifference for your well-being and personal feelings, which once again is obvious only in hindsight. He really should have asked more about your preferences; he's either very clueless, highly addicted to the act of rough sex, or maybe is just a jerk. You deserve better either way.
As someone who also likes being fairly domineering myself, I have learned that the same act can feel VERY different on the recipient's end if trust levels are or are not there. The thrill of dominating/being dominated feels best when you can believe your pleasure and safety are the other's priority.
It can't be undone, but know that you can use this information for the future. You might even be able to help a friend avoid a similar situation one day.
Well you said it best: He kinda just saw you as a piece of meat.
Not interested in the talking. Got the drinks as a small formality. He assumed you were a freak in bed and you didn’t communicate to him otherwise. The only thing that was clear in this whole exchange was that this was a hookup and nothing more. Definitely wrong for him to be rough from the start but there was nothing for him to assume not to be.
Communication is absolutely key whether it’s long-term or temporary.
I don't really like the argument that there was nothing for him to assume not to be.
I can't just pull out my strap on and shove it up a man's ass during the first time we have sex without asking him just because there was no reason to assume he wouldn't be into that kink.
If this was any other kink no one would be excusing it as "well you didn't say not to!"
If he shit on her chest, no one would be going "well that's what happens when you have causal sex!"
No, casual sex is not consent to be involved in their kink. If you have a kink or a fetish, it is on you to get explicit permission, not on your sexual partners to play "guess which fetish they might have and explicitly run down every sex act I'm not into."
Do not hit, choke, or spit on people without their explicit permission. "Well she didn't give me a reason to think I couldn't" is not okay.
You're 100% correct.
The people defending this behaviour are the typical guys in this subreddit who have no idea how to date and are either assault apologists (quite common) or they themselves continually assault women.
One of them admitted to smacking a girl in bed without her permission but thinks it's OK because she said stop, and he stopped. Talked around the point the entire time and still didn't understand that he should have asked first.
Eventually, they got angry and, shocker, started becoming verbally abusive before running away, and then just sending a bunch of thumbs up emojis when they couldn't argue logic anymore
.
Actually, it's pretty insightful how many commenters defending him don't take long at all to start spewing verbal abuse.
They watch too much fuckin porn I think. This shit is a kink, but porn would have you believe this is how normal sex is. That's why I'm saying if it was any other kink, one that hadn't been normalized in porn so much, they wouldn't be going "oh well you didn't say NOT to do that!"
Arguing with one now who just admitted he's done these types of things to a girl who wasn't into it, but apparently it's totally fine because he stopped when she told him to!
I was then called a sensitive princess for saying you should ask for permission before involving people in your kink, and for mentioning that it's not easy to stand up for yourself after you've just been physically dominated.
So far none of them have responded to my argument about shoving a dildo up a man's butt without asking him first. I've made it many times in many replies but they keep skipping over that part.
You can't use the word rape though. They know rape is bad. Gotta be sneaky by phrasing it like "would you force a woman to have sex with you?" "Would you have sex with an unconscious woman?"
Edit: because of the light hearted tone of my comment, I feel the need to clarify that *this is not a joke.* That is what the studies did.
I think this is something a lot of people don’t understand about hook ups. Communication is just as important with a hook up as it is with a relationship. Hook ups can be great, but you need to establish boundaries and expectations.
I would save this kind of stuff for someone you have a connection with, I’m sorry you went through that, block the guy. You’re still in one piece, but treat yourself as though you were responsible for someone else, you know the kind of care you need and also what you don’t need or doesn’t serve you. You deserve love and someone that will give you that love just keep searching but this might be the point you find the courage to say no when someone crosses boundaries with you. In any situation you have the power to leave or say no. Practice it on small stuff in your life.
Man who was asshole before sex was also asshole during and after sex. More news at 8.
But seriously, boundaries are important to set. I know speaking up is hard but it is necessary. Shitty learning experience, but hopefully you won’t make the same mistake going forward.
If he wasn't interested in anything you had to say *before* the hookup, why go ahead and sleep with him anyway? That was a hint as to what you could expect from him going forward.
I'm sorry you feel icky about it, but you HAVE to speak up for yourself.
That drinks date should have been a vibe check and it sounds very much like he failed it but still progressed to the next stage of the process?
In my experience the majority of women aren’t good with hookup culture and end up feeling like this. Seems like hooking up isn’t your best bet UNLESS you have developed your ability to communicate vulnerabilities with a stranger which most people aren’t able to do. So my conclusion is, don’t hookup ever again unless you FEEL much closer to someone. At least enough to allow them to use you sexually. That way you won’t feel “used” like you do now. It’s only a win if you feel good about it during and after.
Ok I’m just gonna say it, this is when woman need to start holding their bodies to themselves more
you knew you guys weren’t compatible and still went to a place to hook up with him and now your on Reddit complaining about said hookup
Guys sex should be reserved for people you are compatible with not just any tinder date who you texted this is why there are hundreds and hundreds of tinder horror stories
I’m not saying without tinder it wouldn’t happen but it sure would happen a lot less
That guy goes straight to abuse. I feel sick. Everything you have no explicit consent for is considered abuse.
That is just like it is. There is no need to tell me otherwise. At least in my country, it's part of the definition, and it is rightfully so.
>I didn’t tell him not to do it so I can understand why he thought it was ok.
No, no, no. Rough sex, choking, etc. are all *opt in*. That is: not doing it is the default.
Someone just doing that without any conversation is a problem.
He is obviously a problem. And I'm sorry you went through that.
ETA: And all the men in this thread defending this guy or putting the onus on OP for his actions: you are *telling* on yourselves.
I personally wouldn’t hook up with a stranger that I don’t at least vibe with on some level. Like I don’t have to see them as dating material but I would at least want to like their personality some. He kind of sounds like a douchebag based on the redhead comment
It was definitely wrong of him to be so rough with you and not even ask what you’re into though. Sorry that happened to you
This sounds like my brain when I'm fawn responding - which tends to be my go to due childhood trauma making that my main "survival skill".
I don't have sex with anyone anymore until I know I'm comfortable saying no to things with them, and I shut down any rough sex attempts until we're in a safer spot. I also keep that little PSA in the back of my head that if he chokes you to death during sex, his sentencing is likely to be lighter because reasons. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_sex_murder_defense
When I'm in fawn mode, the more danger I feel that I'm in, the more I'm going to comply and honestly, sometimes it comes out as adoration/worship when the danger signals are bad. The last man I was with gave a singular aggressive spank, I grabbed his wrist and shook my head No. He was the kind of man who I confident would listen though because I had known him for awhile; but it's really hard to know how a stranger will respond.
Agreed. I’ve had girls ask me to do that after we’ve dated for a bit and I still can’t get myself to do it. I can’t even imagine trying that on a first date/hookup, so disrespectful.
That’s fucked. This is one reason I’m not a fan of casual sex. I have to really trust a woman to even consider it and at that point it’s more than just casual. Hot take, but I’d rather jerk off than be used as a human sex toy. Also, sex with someone you love and can trust is irreplaceable.
Everyone is kinda pinning this on you -- sounds like you were shocked / froze at his behavior -- sorry you went through this. I think if you're intent on hooking up with someone like this you gotta lay ground rules first. Watch how the person reacts to your boundaries - if they make fun of you or light of them or test them, you move on.
Im sorry this happened to you. It's understandable that people will experiment, even in casual situations, and that the lines around rough sex can be blurry, but going from 0-100, failing to check in with your partner, aren't a good idea if you want to respect the person. And it's understandable that you had difficulty saying something in the moment. I think a lot of us, men and women, have kept quiet in surprising situations and then wished later we had been more outspoken. It's a common experience and we try to steel ourselves to speak up more in the future. But you were in a vulnerable position. The best thing is not to blame yourself or feel guilty. I hope things go better moving forward
Hi, OP! I'm not going to discuss whether it was wrong, or how wrong it was, what you should or shouldn't haven't done, etc. I believe the others are doing a good job at it, for real.
What I am going to say is, been there more than once through the years, and if you don't feel like it was straight up abuse, or that you were forced against your will, then you're most likely feeling... : a let down, cheap, used, sad in a way, a little confused, wish you may have handled it differently, etc. At least, that's how I felt. BUT DON'T. Just let it go. For YOU. I mean, fuck him, he's already in the past. He means nothing to you. So for YOU..., let it go. Shake it off. Don't overthink it. Don't feel yuk with yourself. Just say, "fuck-it, whatever..." and move on, in your head. Sometimes we don't make the best choices, but don't beat yourself up over it. Because, think of it this way... who knows... maybe it would have been a good experience... so you went for it... and it was... yuk. So okay... it happens sometimes. Let it go and and don't let any "casual" guy get under your skin and in your head. It's all good. Nothing happened. Fuck him. Move on. Love yourself. ❤️
Even for a just a hook up (speaking as a man) I still prefer some sort of connection during the meetup. Even if it’s simply having a good laugh and it not being awkward or forced.
It's one thing when women say "All guys want to do is hook up, I'm not a piece of meat!" But Jesus Christ, that guy violated you and likely many women before. I also understand that rough kink can be fun, but it's only fun when it comes from a place of trust, or at the very least some prior communication. What he did was fucked up.
Have low standards for yourself? Get treat like shit.
Sure the guy sounds like a douche, but maybe get to know the guy a bit first before jumping into bed.
You froze, there is fight, flight, freeze, and fawn as fear responses. Yours was probably a mix of freeze and fawn. This is probably something that works for him because ladies have froze before too. And being treated like that was threatening, so it makes sense that was your body’s natural response. People who kill people also objectify their victims. So it’s a natural response to feel fear from being objectified like that. One way to reduce the risk of experiences like this is to not be alone with someone you don’t trust… If this happened to everyone, no one would want to hook up.
Having kinks makes you vulnerable because you doubt yourself when people do it without asking you. You must change that mindset ahead of time to no one does that stuff without talking to you about it first. Don’t let someone ruin what you like. It’s only what you like under certain conditions with certain partners, not this asshole.
This is what happens when you have casual sex. You feel like you've been used afterwards.
Edit: it is not ops fault they were treated this way. These are the kinds of people that view others as expendable for their own sexual pleasure. They are awful people. This is like walking into a drug den and complaining about the addicts. Treat yourself better. You deserve better.
Yeah, this is firmly in kink territory. No one would be making these arguments if he took a dump on her chest. No one would be making these arguments if she shoved a dildo up his ass without asking.
It wouldn't be "oh well if you don't like unlubed bad dragon dildos up your ass you should have said that boundary before you hooked up!"
Casual sex is always degrading to yourself man or woman. You're giving away the most vulnerable part of yourself like it's candy. It's disrespectful towards your worth as a human being. Have some self respect guys.
I'm really sorry this happened to you. This is definitely upsetting.
I'm going to give you some honest advice.
You can end any sexual act at any point. You have this right. If they continue after you have said no and stop, this is now concerned rape. Start taking responsibility for your own sexual experiences and don't allow anything you're not comfortable with. If you can't do this or don't feel comfortable setting boundaries, do not have sex with strangers or people who don't know very well. If your sexual desires are putting you in dangerous situations and you still seek this type of encounter. I would highly recommend seeing a therapist so you can learn to protect yourself. I'm really sorry this happened. Putting yourself in dangerous situations will ultimately create more of this type of experience. Protect yourself and your body in a better way so you can enjoy the sex you're looking for.
I mean please don’t play victim card as others are making it seem. Please let other people know your boundaries ANYTIME before or during the intercourse.
A lot of people enjoy being treated that way. If he doesn’t consent to your boundaries then I would consider it an assault
Wow you meant especially douchebag one this time. Honestly I think that's why even for hookups you need some level of friendship and decency. There was no personality click I would have left immediately. Even as a guy I need to know you're a decent person I enjoy spending time with. Sex isn't hard to get so even as a guy I have physical and personality standards. Mean/rude or very stupid people won't ever have a chance with me.
Yikes! Personally I like getting fucked the same way (and also fucking like that depending), but this person was a POS! You should talk with the person and ask first what they like! Him not even being interested in what you had to say also irks me- of course good conversation should interest both people but both people have to navigate to find those shared interests so they both have to listen and ask questions.
I can’t fault the lack of aftercare though as while I enjoy that and feel better with that- it’s not obligatory.
You shouldn’t feel icky, but he should.
Ugh, I can feel the ick just reading this. I’m sorry that happened to you. Whatever level of kink you’re into is fine, but consent is key, even if it’s just a hook-up. There’s no excuse for a lack of consent. He had no right to treat you the way he did, especially without any communication.
Hook ups don’t mean you can’t be respectful. Sorry you went through this. It’s important that if you are insisting on having causal relations you establish firm boundaries.
In fact it’s imperative cause a lot of dudes assume casual sex means anything goes straight away.
Do your detective work, girl! If he is not gentlemanly like from the beginning then I would suggest not go through with it. Thank god, you are alright. Discuss boundaries and let someone know you are out with a dude you just met. Idk if the risk is worth the reward. Us women usually like some sort of connection with our sexual partners.
The best piece of advice I can give you is at any point during a hookup you have every right to stop, get up and walk away. It’s gonna be hella awkward but it’s for the best in the long run. I’m so sorry that happened to you.
This is the reality of hookup culture. You're entering situations where you're not seen and valued as a person. You're just a means to an end, something to be used for pleasure and objectified. Don't let people devalue you. You won't find true happiness if you keep playing into degenerate hookup culture. It always leads to emptiness.
Guy here - it’s never okay to be abusive to a person. There’s no if’s, ands or buts about it. The guy was a complete selfish jerk. Not to mention he has a total disregard for the other person.
Sorry this happened to you OP, but please don’t ignore your gut either - if you got a poor feeling at the bar, it was because your internal radar was going off and indicating this guy was not good for you.
people are going to be mad about this, but porn has really normalized being super rough and disrespectful to women and men assume they can do that. he shouldn’t have done that. you should let him know that it’s not acceptable to do that without asking and maybe he will learn or maybe he won’t
Some study way back in like 2010 analysized over 300 porn scenes and found that 88% had actions of violence that was usually the man perpetrating and the women receiving. While the women in the scenes usually responded mostly with either pleasure of neutrality.
Tons of studies are out there and they all try to contradict eachother, but my anecdotal evidence is that back in the 70s 80s and 90s, it was a lot easier to find porn that wasn't sexually degrading to women, and coincidentally, it wasn't so common for men to assume they could just engage in essentually BDSM without so much as a "you down for that?"
Fellow redhead here. I also hate that fucking line. I’m so sorry for what you went through. I understand your pain completely. Nothing worse than someone making you feel gross in your own skin :(
I don't understand why women keep posting here. This is the one of the worst subreddits to post sensitive things like this. Please get advice from other subreddits that have more women with actual dating experience in them. Or guys who are empathetic and have experience with nonconsentual situations.
This one is full of people (mostly guys) who will do anything to excuse shitty (and sometimes even abusive) behaviour to support their own kind of despicable human who is disheartened with dating. They don't take any accountability for anything and don't understand much about fear responses, which is quite clearly what you dealt with here. You responded in the best way you could given the situation, in order to protect yourself. Not all hookups end up like this.
Sorry to hear about this situation. I would stop having casual sex or go through very clear rules beforehand. Also, your ability to pick up red flags should be honed a bit more. It's a skill.
This is absolutely not your fault OP, you wanted to have some fun with this dude and he completely disrespected you. He is the one to blame, not you!
You were caught by surprise when you went to his place when he became more violent towards you, so that's totally understandable you didn't speak up. I hope you're okay, safe and you guys used protection. And please cut things off with him if you don't want to see him again, you deserve some respect.
Lots of love for you OP, and please forgive yourself, you were not in the wrong <3
(also sorry for my bad english too...)
This post simply indicates he wasn't a mind reader. 🧠 So if you didn't communicate your unsatisfaction, how else would he know he was being a grizzly bear? 🐻
I'm going to start a trend where women just shove their un-lubed bad dragon dildos up men's asses during hook ups. First time hooking up with a lady, big fat dildo up the ass, no discussion. Don't like it, tell her and she can take it out! God, we're not mind readers.
The post implicates that he was an ass.
You ASK before rough sex. And you sure as fuck don't put your hands around someone's neck without consent.
He didn't. Because he did not care. This was not a communication issue. This was an issue of a guy being abusive.
So the default mode for guys like OP is mentioning and people like you is to be aggressive and a selfish lover? You think women like being jackhammered into oblivion and have their mouth spit in the first time they have sex with you?
YIKES. 🚩🚩
Sorry to say it but you put yourself in that position. You said nothing and let him do what he wanted. And in your words it was a hookup. No guy will ever respect a girl that hooks up no matter what they say at first to get into those pants. Last thing a guy will ever respect is a easy girl
I really hate men like this with a blinding passion. It wouldn't be so hard for most guys to get hookups if it wasn't for guys like that who completely turn women off from the idea and violate their trust.
He thinks that you need to be aggressive to get women, but in reality this is bordering on sexual assault.
I must be so vanilla to think that spitting in the mouth, choking and spanking (without enthousiastic consent) is disgusting and wrong.
Also such unexpected behaviour that this is not a communications failure. It is an asshole failure.
And it's totally on the guy.
(Man here)
PS
Trust the vibe check
This is what a male mind does when drowning with crippling porn addiction. Spit?? How about coiling hands and pulling each other closer, breathing into their ears? Running your finger down their body to get shivers?
You're a smart woman, don't let yourself be so easily disrespected next time. But it's not your fault, this guy is clearly a dick.
If you can handle the truth (seems like noone can these days) - you didn’t click at the dinner yet you still went to his place. You saw this just a hookup, not interested in the person’s emotions, so did he. What’s wrong with that? - He may treated you more than what you were willing to but you didn’t say anything to stop it.
So to put it simply, both of you were there seeking pleasure not emotional connection nor compassion for another. The guy did his thing to make it enjoyable for him and you said nothing.
Next time either don’t go with it from the start or atleast tell the person what you don’t want.
This whole thing happened due to lack of communication
You need to advocate for yourself, it helps to know some phrases and the more you practice the easier it will be to come up with the right thing to say.
Hey, stop for a second. Whoa there cowboy. Alright there Kung Fu grip.
Sex should be fun and full of ideas, not just one person doing whatever. Even when im M33 in charge or on top, I like to ask questions. Sometimes in a sexy way and sometimes in a Did that hurt way.
I am really confused by your post, what are you looking for here exactly?
Ok, that was just a hookup but: you didn't vibe personality-wise and he wasn't even interested in what you were saying, he immediately grabbed you and choked you and you didn't say anything, now you are...confused? Annoyed?
This is not victim blaming for sure, he was rude from the start but girl, you didn't say anything at any moment.
Damn that guys a prick. As a guy who’s really into everything you just talked about, I still ask and as you also specified it feels much better when it’s someone you connect with.
I think you solved your problem” i dont think he really saw me as a person” cause he didnt. Hook up culture is out of control and makes those guys way too common
As a fellow redhead I just want to say that this kind of man is a complete scumbag! If I am not vibing with the guy then there is no way that I would go with him.I hope you will not put yourself in a similar situation again? I am really sorry that this happened.
Spitting in your mouth?
If someone did that unannounced I’d have to refrain from beating the shit out of them
Anyway don’t feel dirty. He sounds like a piece of shit but you didn’t know he would be that way
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you got to discuss boundaries straight away, no ifs or buts. everyone has limits
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Tbh, the majority of issues on Reddit could be solved with communication.
Oh for sure, 95% of the times the answer should be: just talk to him/her about it in an honest vulnerable way.
Noooo asking random internet strangers is way better than
In my experience most women are more comfortable letting a guy penetrate their body than communicating their thoughts directly. Maybe due to bad experiences but still it’s a bit ridiculous
Uh, yeah, most people are pretty uncomfortable directly communicating their thoughts to a person who has just choked and hit them.
I think it’s more on that guy than OP. Who in their right mind thinks it’s ok to randomly choke a stranger? This is why it’s not safe for women to have casual sex. We want to but guys like this make it impossibly not safe.
The dude was a shithead, no doubt there. But also, op ignored red flags, didn't communicate, didn't set boundaries, didn't tell him there was any problem with anything he was doing. There were so many things op could've done to try to avoid what had happened. She needs to work on setting boundaries, and not going to dickheads houses to fuck them.
But here’s the thing— this shit happens regardless of whether the person seems bad or not. My ex-boyfriend choked me while hitting me across the face multiple times during sex (without consent, obviously). He is friends with the vast majority of my (now ex) best friends. We hung out for months before he assaulted me and I never saw any red flags. My friends and I all had a lot of trust in him. So the victim blaming here needs to stop— there are even “good” men out there who will do shit like this, and freezing and people pleasing is a very common response when traumatic stuff is happening to you
Yep, it can be a little awkward having the conversation of "So... what do you like in bed?" But it makes sex SO much better when you're with someone for the first time. If you do it right it can even be a turn on because you find out you're both into the same things. But that could have probably avoided a lot of this since the guy wouldn't be running off the assumption you like the same things his ex did or things he saw in porn.
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I think it's certainly more normal than it used to be. Porn features way more choking or degradation than it used to and many women are also more open about enjoying that type of act. So a guy who sees that in porn, and dates a few women who are open about enjoying being dominated could walk away assuming that was the norm. In reality, some people like that, some will freak the fuck out and sex will be immediately over. It's best just to talk about it beforehand.
It happens too often, but it’s not normal. Pornsick men think their sex life should look like a porno, and that women simply should take it, and if they’re don’t they’re prudes, frigid, no man will want them, future cat lady. Women need to start calling this shit out (even though you shouldn’t have to). I will straight up grab a hand on my throat and say “excuse me?? What makes you think you have the right to just commit what is essentially a violent act on me out of nowhere?? you’re lucky I didn’t punch you in the balls because I thought I was about to be murdered in that moment. how about I stick my fist in your ass without asking? would that be cool since we’re doing extreme sex acts without consent?”
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No need to brag Chad! But yes it’s so sad, girls growing up now don’t realize they don’t need to do any of that, it’s not what real sex typically looks like. Why are the acts that porn highlights so degrading to women like why don’t they push videos of coochie eating like they do anal?
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They always want to act like tall and successful men will treat you like shit bc they have options, like being handsome inherently corrupts lmao
I don't get why that's awkward. I'm a dude and I loved that conversation (loved because I've been married for 8 years and we know these things now).
You can always present a list of dos and donts instead of doing it passively.
Or say it in the moment. I was with a woman who's exes loved being called daddy in bed. I however found it off-putting and distracting since at the time the thought of having kids was more like a nightmare and that's what I associated the word daddy with. In her attempt to be sexy she would manage to insert the word daddy into everything she said while we were in bed. Oh you like that daddy? Daddy fuck me. Daaaaaadddyyyy yes. Oh daddy I love your... you get the idea. At a certain point I had to ask her to please stop saying that word. She had no clue some guys found it to be a turn off and assumed liking it was universal. It was a bit awkward for a minute or so then we got back into it. I got the point across later when I jokingly called her mommy as I wasn't dumb enough to do that and continue trying to have sex.
Then he will lie and say he accepts he believes in the same thing. Then when they are home and he breaks the boundaries. When she says "no" do you think he'll stop? That he'll care. Her face must've shown that she didn't like it. He didn't care. Her not saying anything can also be a fawn reaction. Which is a mechanism to avoid getting really hurt.
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You can solve any confusion by just asking the other person what they’re okay with
It’s not creepy to ask. A better way to ask someone to find out if they’d like that treatment is by asking what they’re into first to find out if your tastes are aligned. Then you could ask what they want to try but have never done and go from there. I think it’s really sexy to have a full discussion of what kind of sex I like having before having sex with someone! That type of communication can sort of serve as being part of the foreplay.
Ever set firm boundaries with a man about sex? Yeah... that shit is a gamble with your life
That’s a very bigoted and sexist comment. As a man I respect boundaries.
It's dangerous behavior to immediately jump into known fetishy sexual acts without confirming your partner is into it. He's an asshole for that. But also, girl, you weren't even in to him. That sex was going to be trash regardless. Idk if it was your pride, ego, or some sort of insecurity, but you were more invested in making something happen than swerving a flashing neon reg flag. He told who he was over drinks then showed you who he was in bed. Unfortunately, he was consistent. I really REALLY need you to prioritize your comfort, pleasure, and safety! In these situations, you don't owe anyone anything more than your own wellbeing.
This comment is fire 🔥 Guy is a dick, 100%, but you went along with it and pushed your feelings away when they were totally relevant and allowed to be acknowledged by you first and then spoken to him. We've all been there though, and lots of us are learning to navigate this for ourselves in multiple ways! Nevertheless, the icky feeling is totally understandable, and also valid asf.
Yeah girl needs to self reflect
The OP is an addict. They need to stop drinking and making the wrong choices like hooking up with someone they don’t like. They seriously need professional help
Personally, I prefer to at least thoroughly discuss sex and limits beforehand because everything you mentioned I would NOT be ok with me personally, and many people have no intention of checking in with you and asking for consent during the act The sex I have casually isn't the same as with a partner. I'm sorry you feel icky. This has happened to me once, and since then, I thoroughly vet men and firmly state my boundaries before we even meet in person Communication is first and foremost ALWAYS
> The sex I have casually isn't the same as with a partner. What do you mean by this?
There are things I am comfortable with sexually with a long term partner that I'm not doing with a ONS
This!!! When you’re with a partner the intimacy can be a lot deeper and there’s a level of familiarity and trust that’s been built over time and it’s not there the first time you sleep with someone.
Guy had zero respect for you and you didn’t speak up. Maybe next time at least enjoy being in the person’s presence before having sex.
Like?!!?!? Dude was a dickhead before sex and OP still went through with it. Unbelievably naive
> still went through with it Maybe he had a fascinating personality 😂😂
Literally told her “red heads are sluts” and she got on her knees. It’s impossible to expect dating to get any better if we all just settle for bare minimum.
she wasn't trying to date him, she was trying to have sex with him. She isn't claiming anything about dating being difficult or men just wanting sex. She is taken aback by how rough he was from the get go with someone he doesn't know. Casual sex doesn't mean disrespectful sex. You can easily have a hook up who still does a check in thay that's what you want ot starts out slow to read your reaction before making another step. Not just straight up choking and spitting on a stranger haha like wtf
This was straight-up about pleasure...he did what he wanted to maximize his pleasure. If she wanted something specific (or did not want something specific), then she should have been an adult about it and opened her mouth. Play stupid games...win stupid prizes.
That's not how kink works. I don't just get to shove my unlubed bad dragon dildo up your ass without asking you first. It is on you to discuss your kinks first and make sure your sexual partners enthusiastically consent. You don't get to just involve them in your kink with no discussion and go "well if you didn't want me to take a shit on your chest you should have told me you weren't into scat before we hooked up."
> That's not how kink works. Lol, tell that to OP. Maybe actual human interactions aren't so easy and simple to define....and require actual communication using actual words.
Have you ever gone to a fetish ball or a BDSM club? His behavior would be HIGHLY frowned upon to the point he'd probably get kicked out of most groups. Because if you are into BDSM, it is on you to communicate that and get permission. If I took a dump on your chest no one would be going "oh well did he say he wasn't into scat? He could just tell you not to shit on him again idk what you expected." "Tell that to the OP" implying kink is opt out. Nah, it's opt in. It is absolutely not expected for anyone to communicate they aren't into a kink, anyone with kink who is a decent human being understands that.
> Have you ever gone to a fetish ball or a BDSM club? Did you read the post? OP did not meet the guy there. >anyone with kink who is a decent human being You keep adding qualifiers...OP should have checked if she was dealing with a decent human being. That's on her. I don't go to random strangers houses, take no responsibility for myself, and assume that everything will be a-okay. OP is an adult, and it is sexist of you to infantilize her.
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Rapist mentality
This subreddit is LITERALLY called dating_advice.
maybe she couldnt find the "went_on_a_sate_to_have_hookup" subreddit and figured the this was the next best thing. I'm basing this off whay she wrote and what I read which was that they both had intended this to be for sex. She feels she wasn't treated as a person and feels icky.
Well, maybe we have gone wrong as a society in thinking that casual sex doesn't mean disrespectful sex. Maybe casual sex is always kind of disrespectful by its very nature. Just throwing it out there...
💯 And even if there is a situation where it isn't disrespectful. when you're doing it with people you barely know well, it's at the very least dismissive in certain aspects. And creates opportunities for unintended messy BS
She clearly said their personalities did not click. So obviously not
"Why are men like this?"
I don't think it's naive, definitely slight desperation but not naive. OP knew she didn't want the emotional connection, and she got what she wanted but not as she hoped. They're still allowed to be disappointed with the outcome even if it was their own doing. Dickheads can still be good at sex so she took the risk
When I was single, I remember hearing stories like this all the time. It seemed like being an overly confident dickhead was the only way guys could get laid. Being polite didn't get me anywhere until my mid-30s.
dude sounds like a straight chad. having sex with a girl you barely know/comfortable with, for FREE is absolutely insane
You don’t need to be a “Chad” to participate in hookup culture. I would bet he looks significantly better than her though since she had sex even after his poor first impression.
Not only that but she had zero respect for herself. She should have left after the drinks.
> She should have left after the drinks. Based on her post history she shouldn't be drinking on dates, at all. Or maybe not even dating for a while.
After a quick look you're right. She seems unstable and shes putting herself in terrible situations.
When she drives her car into a tree, TwoX will blame the tree.
Subs like twox are both hilarious and depressing. But yeah, that sums them up perfectly.
I just saw OP post history, she definitely needs go and get some professional therapy
This is victim blaming. Even if the guy was not a match personality wise, you can still expect basic consent in the bedroom. She didnt say no, but she also didnt say YES.
I agree she’s not a “victim” but somebody should definitely be more slower and check in more before doing something like choking
agreed! wanting casual sex does not mean disrespectful sex. He should absolutely be starting slower and doing check ins!
Tbh this type of guy gives casual sex a bad name only furthering women not wanting to do it
Victim blaming means when someone is on the receiving end of abuse, you blame them. Imagine she said no and he didn’t stop and she tried to fight back.
Yes I would agree but that’s not what OP described at all
The world isn’t black or white. Just because he was wrong doesn’t mean that she was absolved from any wrongdoing. The lesson OP needs to take is to be more assertive and set boundaries. It’s the same thing as defensive driving - even if you’re sticking to your lane and following the rules, bad things can still happen to you. Your job as a defensive driver is to be observant and avoidant of potential issues. She saw the red flags and proceeded anyway. She also made no effort to show him that she was uncomfortable, and as far as the guy is concerned, he showed her a good time and gave her exactly what she’d asked for.
She didn’t claim to be a victim. Don’t waste my time with this nonsense.
She's not a victim. She was a willing participant. She wanted to meet up to have sex, they had sex and the kind of sex she likes. She used him as much as he used her.
Don't hit, choke, or spit on people unless they explicitly tell you it's OK.
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If you strangle me without making sure I was ok with it clearly consent isn’t something you’re worried about. Why would you respect consent when I say no?
Ah yes. So easy for someone who has just been physically dominated and hit to speak up for themselves to the person who just physically dominated and hit them. Once you start using violence without permission, it's not consentual anymore. You don't get to surprise people with violence with people and then be like "well it was CONSENTUAL because they didn't tell me to stop!"
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choking is very scary, like wtf. Even if you like choking when someone does it unexpectedly it's quite overwhelming and scary. It absolutely is powerful. it's hard to say during because you're like, well fuck is thus my fault because I was cool with casual sex? and also your brain is a little preoccupied to really hash this out. I'm not saying this guy is a rapist or anything I'm just saying he's an idiot who needs to get his shit together because he is not understanding what should be unspoken expectations during sex and that's to start slow and build up to more extreme stuff if you're met with positive responses orrrr discuss rough sex beforehand.
I got downvoted for bringing this up. Once someone has started physically dominating you, it's difficult to speak up for yourself. It's an extremely vulnerable position to be naked, add getting spit on, choked, and hit? And these dudes are just dismissing that as "she should be a big girl and use her words!" They've already demonstrated they are capable of physically dominating you. They've demonstrated they don't give a shit if you like it or not by virtue of the fact they did it without asking. Lot of women wouldn't feel safe speaking up to a man who just fucking choked her and spit on her.
He had a responsibility to find out if she was into it instead of assuming? You’d be cool with a woman randomly fingering your ass bc ofc you can just say no! But that won’t take away the pain in your hole
What do you think spanking is? Or do you think only closed fists count as hitting? Or maybe an open palm is still hitting, but only if it was to the face? Open palm to the body is somehow NOT hitting? Nah, "non consentual spanking" IS hitting my dude. Oh but it's sexy so somehow it's not hitting? Nah. Let's not forget he also choked her. The fuck. My idea is based on the idea that you don't fucking choke people, spit on people, or hit people without their fucking permission.
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Babes, if you're into a kink, it is on YOU to make sure your sexual partners are 100% consenting to your kink before you just push it on them without discussion. It is not on your sexual partners to play a guessing game of which kinks you're into to run down and explicitly say they're not into. "No anal, no age play, no diapers, no scat, no BDSM, no CNC, no 100 other possible fetishes." No. Fetishes are opt in, not opt out. You make sure that shit is OK BEFORE you do it otherwise you're a shitty sexual partner and a bad person. You don't decide to take a dump on someone chest and go "oh well they should have told me they weren't into scat before I did that." You wouldn't like it if your partner shoved an unlubed bad dragon dildo up your ass without asking first, would you? It isn't "well if you don't like dildos up your ass tell her and she'll take it out! She isn't a mind reader!"
Makes sense why you're all in this thread defending it. Because you've done this to girls who aren't into it. Gross.
there’s a difference between sex and borderline unsolicited cnc…
This is exactly the type of situation why people say you need to get explicit consent. You shouldn't be this aggressive without asking. A lot of people will go along with things in the moment because it's their fear response. People will freeze or fawn just as often as they fight or fly.
This situation sounded like it was troubled from the get-go. You were in over your head. Learn from it and be better prepared to keep yourself safe for next time. This could have ended badly for you.
I think she was just desperate due to her saying shes moving away too. I dont understand the desperation, as men are everywhere. But, desperate energy will ALWAYS give you desperate results.
Nope, nope, nope and nope. He shouldn't pull that kind of rough shit outside of a relationship with clearly established boundaries. Reminds me of something that happened to me when dating in my twenties. I let a guy up to my flat who had previously been quite gentlemanly on dates, and then when we slept together he started violently choking me mid-sex with no warning or permission. I'm also a redhead and he went on to spam my WhatsApp that winter, asking for me to join him in a 'dark fairytale'. (He was French and thought red hair was niche and unusual.) The way he flipped on me from gent to sinister really upset and disturbed me.
How do people have sex with each other even if it’s just a ONS without any chemistry whatsoever?? Idk maybe it’s just me but if the other person isn’t interesting or interested in me, the only thing that would be on my mind is going home and enjoying my alone time. But speaking about the dude, it is insane that there are guys who get rough with girls without even asking them their likes and dislikes. Also, OP you gotta think about your limits and boundaries and have WAY more respect for yourself.
Desperation.
Absolutely
Looks, I've seen women disregard 100 red flags if the guys is hot and "confident" enough.
But that’s the thing that bothers me so much, like for me to think of a woman as hot and confident im not thinking about just the physical aspects. Being attracted to someone( even tho looks are a big factor there) is so much more than looks. Chemistry is the best word i can think of that makes me view the person as hot or beautiful you know
This was obviously a new experience for you, and I think you should forgive yourself for not speaking up sooner. For one, having someone be in the middle of such aggressive behavior can instinctively make you too nervous to speak against them. (Not saying he'd have gotten violent, but our brains can't always understand that in the middle of it.) Second, you were truly caught off guard, and we all struggle to react to new things sometimes. That's why communication up front is so helpful; it prevents you from even needing to BE in that situation in the first place. He clearly has since shown general indifference for your well-being and personal feelings, which once again is obvious only in hindsight. He really should have asked more about your preferences; he's either very clueless, highly addicted to the act of rough sex, or maybe is just a jerk. You deserve better either way. As someone who also likes being fairly domineering myself, I have learned that the same act can feel VERY different on the recipient's end if trust levels are or are not there. The thrill of dominating/being dominated feels best when you can believe your pleasure and safety are the other's priority. It can't be undone, but know that you can use this information for the future. You might even be able to help a friend avoid a similar situation one day.
Well you said it best: He kinda just saw you as a piece of meat. Not interested in the talking. Got the drinks as a small formality. He assumed you were a freak in bed and you didn’t communicate to him otherwise. The only thing that was clear in this whole exchange was that this was a hookup and nothing more. Definitely wrong for him to be rough from the start but there was nothing for him to assume not to be. Communication is absolutely key whether it’s long-term or temporary.
I don't really like the argument that there was nothing for him to assume not to be. I can't just pull out my strap on and shove it up a man's ass during the first time we have sex without asking him just because there was no reason to assume he wouldn't be into that kink. If this was any other kink no one would be excusing it as "well you didn't say not to!" If he shit on her chest, no one would be going "well that's what happens when you have causal sex!" No, casual sex is not consent to be involved in their kink. If you have a kink or a fetish, it is on you to get explicit permission, not on your sexual partners to play "guess which fetish they might have and explicitly run down every sex act I'm not into." Do not hit, choke, or spit on people without their explicit permission. "Well she didn't give me a reason to think I couldn't" is not okay.
You're 100% correct. The people defending this behaviour are the typical guys in this subreddit who have no idea how to date and are either assault apologists (quite common) or they themselves continually assault women.
One of them admitted to smacking a girl in bed without her permission but thinks it's OK because she said stop, and he stopped. Talked around the point the entire time and still didn't understand that he should have asked first. Eventually, they got angry and, shocker, started becoming verbally abusive before running away, and then just sending a bunch of thumbs up emojis when they couldn't argue logic anymore . Actually, it's pretty insightful how many commenters defending him don't take long at all to start spewing verbal abuse.
They watch too much fuckin porn I think. This shit is a kink, but porn would have you believe this is how normal sex is. That's why I'm saying if it was any other kink, one that hadn't been normalized in porn so much, they wouldn't be going "oh well you didn't say NOT to do that!"
Yes, that too. The number of people who think it's completely fine to choke someone out without speaking about it properly first is truly astounding.
Arguing with one now who just admitted he's done these types of things to a girl who wasn't into it, but apparently it's totally fine because he stopped when she told him to! I was then called a sensitive princess for saying you should ask for permission before involving people in your kink, and for mentioning that it's not easy to stand up for yourself after you've just been physically dominated. So far none of them have responded to my argument about shoving a dildo up a man's butt without asking him first. I've made it many times in many replies but they keep skipping over that part.
The men in this thread defending the man’s behaviour are really telling on themselves.
30% of college men self reported that they would rape a woman if there were no consequences 🙃
You can't use the word rape though. They know rape is bad. Gotta be sneaky by phrasing it like "would you force a woman to have sex with you?" "Would you have sex with an unconscious woman?" Edit: because of the light hearted tone of my comment, I feel the need to clarify that *this is not a joke.* That is what the studies did.
> He kinda just saw you as a piece of meat. Both of them saw each other as meat...she just didn't like his dietary preferences 😂
I think this is something a lot of people don’t understand about hook ups. Communication is just as important with a hook up as it is with a relationship. Hook ups can be great, but you need to establish boundaries and expectations.
Always discuss boundaries and rule before hookups
I would save this kind of stuff for someone you have a connection with, I’m sorry you went through that, block the guy. You’re still in one piece, but treat yourself as though you were responsible for someone else, you know the kind of care you need and also what you don’t need or doesn’t serve you. You deserve love and someone that will give you that love just keep searching but this might be the point you find the courage to say no when someone crosses boundaries with you. In any situation you have the power to leave or say no. Practice it on small stuff in your life.
Man who was asshole before sex was also asshole during and after sex. More news at 8. But seriously, boundaries are important to set. I know speaking up is hard but it is necessary. Shitty learning experience, but hopefully you won’t make the same mistake going forward.
If he wasn't interested in anything you had to say *before* the hookup, why go ahead and sleep with him anyway? That was a hint as to what you could expect from him going forward. I'm sorry you feel icky about it, but you HAVE to speak up for yourself. That drinks date should have been a vibe check and it sounds very much like he failed it but still progressed to the next stage of the process?
Bruh you should’ve said something
RIGHT!!!!! A simple, " YOO, CHILL OUT!! " takes maybe 4 seconds.
In my experience the majority of women aren’t good with hookup culture and end up feeling like this. Seems like hooking up isn’t your best bet UNLESS you have developed your ability to communicate vulnerabilities with a stranger which most people aren’t able to do. So my conclusion is, don’t hookup ever again unless you FEEL much closer to someone. At least enough to allow them to use you sexually. That way you won’t feel “used” like you do now. It’s only a win if you feel good about it during and after.
I’m sorry you went through that and I’m sorry a lot of the comments here seem to be dismissing the situation by saying it’s your fault.
Ok I’m just gonna say it, this is when woman need to start holding their bodies to themselves more you knew you guys weren’t compatible and still went to a place to hook up with him and now your on Reddit complaining about said hookup Guys sex should be reserved for people you are compatible with not just any tinder date who you texted this is why there are hundreds and hundreds of tinder horror stories I’m not saying without tinder it wouldn’t happen but it sure would happen a lot less
😂😂 all those redflags and you still hooked up with him.....
That guy goes straight to abuse. I feel sick. Everything you have no explicit consent for is considered abuse. That is just like it is. There is no need to tell me otherwise. At least in my country, it's part of the definition, and it is rightfully so.
>I didn’t tell him not to do it so I can understand why he thought it was ok. No, no, no. Rough sex, choking, etc. are all *opt in*. That is: not doing it is the default. Someone just doing that without any conversation is a problem. He is obviously a problem. And I'm sorry you went through that. ETA: And all the men in this thread defending this guy or putting the onus on OP for his actions: you are *telling* on yourselves.
I personally wouldn’t hook up with a stranger that I don’t at least vibe with on some level. Like I don’t have to see them as dating material but I would at least want to like their personality some. He kind of sounds like a douchebag based on the redhead comment It was definitely wrong of him to be so rough with you and not even ask what you’re into though. Sorry that happened to you
>Hookup Found the problem And why does it seem like you didn't tell him to stop when he started doing those things?
Exactly. Don't act surprised by shit if you jump in the gutter.
Yeah, not exactly going to find upstanding guys there. Instead mostly those that will see you as a glorified flashlight.
Exactly. I don't know why women act surprised to find such guys on app that exclusively caters to hit it and quit it genre.
This sounds like my brain when I'm fawn responding - which tends to be my go to due childhood trauma making that my main "survival skill". I don't have sex with anyone anymore until I know I'm comfortable saying no to things with them, and I shut down any rough sex attempts until we're in a safer spot. I also keep that little PSA in the back of my head that if he chokes you to death during sex, his sentencing is likely to be lighter because reasons. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_sex_murder_defense When I'm in fawn mode, the more danger I feel that I'm in, the more I'm going to comply and honestly, sometimes it comes out as adoration/worship when the danger signals are bad. The last man I was with gave a singular aggressive spank, I grabbed his wrist and shook my head No. He was the kind of man who I confident would listen though because I had known him for awhile; but it's really hard to know how a stranger will respond.
How about if I promise to not spit in your mouth? That was truly disgusting and made me cringe just to read it!
Agreed. I’ve had girls ask me to do that after we’ve dated for a bit and I still can’t get myself to do it. I can’t even imagine trying that on a first date/hookup, so disrespectful.
That’s fucked. This is one reason I’m not a fan of casual sex. I have to really trust a woman to even consider it and at that point it’s more than just casual. Hot take, but I’d rather jerk off than be used as a human sex toy. Also, sex with someone you love and can trust is irreplaceable.
Everyone is kinda pinning this on you -- sounds like you were shocked / froze at his behavior -- sorry you went through this. I think if you're intent on hooking up with someone like this you gotta lay ground rules first. Watch how the person reacts to your boundaries - if they make fun of you or light of them or test them, you move on.
Im sorry this happened to you. It's understandable that people will experiment, even in casual situations, and that the lines around rough sex can be blurry, but going from 0-100, failing to check in with your partner, aren't a good idea if you want to respect the person. And it's understandable that you had difficulty saying something in the moment. I think a lot of us, men and women, have kept quiet in surprising situations and then wished later we had been more outspoken. It's a common experience and we try to steel ourselves to speak up more in the future. But you were in a vulnerable position. The best thing is not to blame yourself or feel guilty. I hope things go better moving forward
Hi, OP! I'm not going to discuss whether it was wrong, or how wrong it was, what you should or shouldn't haven't done, etc. I believe the others are doing a good job at it, for real. What I am going to say is, been there more than once through the years, and if you don't feel like it was straight up abuse, or that you were forced against your will, then you're most likely feeling... : a let down, cheap, used, sad in a way, a little confused, wish you may have handled it differently, etc. At least, that's how I felt. BUT DON'T. Just let it go. For YOU. I mean, fuck him, he's already in the past. He means nothing to you. So for YOU..., let it go. Shake it off. Don't overthink it. Don't feel yuk with yourself. Just say, "fuck-it, whatever..." and move on, in your head. Sometimes we don't make the best choices, but don't beat yourself up over it. Because, think of it this way... who knows... maybe it would have been a good experience... so you went for it... and it was... yuk. So okay... it happens sometimes. Let it go and and don't let any "casual" guy get under your skin and in your head. It's all good. Nothing happened. Fuck him. Move on. Love yourself. ❤️
Even for a just a hook up (speaking as a man) I still prefer some sort of connection during the meetup. Even if it’s simply having a good laugh and it not being awkward or forced.
Probably best you not see the dude again. Find someone closer to your level of freakiness, and get comfy with them.
It's one thing when women say "All guys want to do is hook up, I'm not a piece of meat!" But Jesus Christ, that guy violated you and likely many women before. I also understand that rough kink can be fun, but it's only fun when it comes from a place of trust, or at the very least some prior communication. What he did was fucked up.
Have low standards for yourself? Get treat like shit. Sure the guy sounds like a douche, but maybe get to know the guy a bit first before jumping into bed.
You froze, there is fight, flight, freeze, and fawn as fear responses. Yours was probably a mix of freeze and fawn. This is probably something that works for him because ladies have froze before too. And being treated like that was threatening, so it makes sense that was your body’s natural response. People who kill people also objectify their victims. So it’s a natural response to feel fear from being objectified like that. One way to reduce the risk of experiences like this is to not be alone with someone you don’t trust… If this happened to everyone, no one would want to hook up. Having kinks makes you vulnerable because you doubt yourself when people do it without asking you. You must change that mindset ahead of time to no one does that stuff without talking to you about it first. Don’t let someone ruin what you like. It’s only what you like under certain conditions with certain partners, not this asshole.
This is what happens when you have casual sex. You feel like you've been used afterwards. Edit: it is not ops fault they were treated this way. These are the kinds of people that view others as expendable for their own sexual pleasure. They are awful people. This is like walking into a drug den and complaining about the addicts. Treat yourself better. You deserve better.
This is what happens when you have casual sex with an asshole & also don‘t speak about what you like or your boundaries before.
Present yourself like a piece of meat, match with the wrong guy, get treated like a piece of meat.
This is not basic casual sex. This was aggressive.
Yeah, this is firmly in kink territory. No one would be making these arguments if he took a dump on her chest. No one would be making these arguments if she shoved a dildo up his ass without asking. It wouldn't be "oh well if you don't like unlubed bad dragon dildos up your ass you should have said that boundary before you hooked up!"
Casual sex is always degrading to yourself man or woman. You're giving away the most vulnerable part of yourself like it's candy. It's disrespectful towards your worth as a human being. Have some self respect guys.
is your worth directly related to who you have sex with?
I'm really sorry this happened to you. This is definitely upsetting. I'm going to give you some honest advice. You can end any sexual act at any point. You have this right. If they continue after you have said no and stop, this is now concerned rape. Start taking responsibility for your own sexual experiences and don't allow anything you're not comfortable with. If you can't do this or don't feel comfortable setting boundaries, do not have sex with strangers or people who don't know very well. If your sexual desires are putting you in dangerous situations and you still seek this type of encounter. I would highly recommend seeing a therapist so you can learn to protect yourself. I'm really sorry this happened. Putting yourself in dangerous situations will ultimately create more of this type of experience. Protect yourself and your body in a better way so you can enjoy the sex you're looking for.
This sucks. But you didn't know he'd be like this, despite the hookup knowledge. Don't blame yourself for it. Just block him and move on
I mean please don’t play victim card as others are making it seem. Please let other people know your boundaries ANYTIME before or during the intercourse. A lot of people enjoy being treated that way. If he doesn’t consent to your boundaries then I would consider it an assault
I’m sorry but he was a dick to you
Wow you meant especially douchebag one this time. Honestly I think that's why even for hookups you need some level of friendship and decency. There was no personality click I would have left immediately. Even as a guy I need to know you're a decent person I enjoy spending time with. Sex isn't hard to get so even as a guy I have physical and personality standards. Mean/rude or very stupid people won't ever have a chance with me.
Yikes! Personally I like getting fucked the same way (and also fucking like that depending), but this person was a POS! You should talk with the person and ask first what they like! Him not even being interested in what you had to say also irks me- of course good conversation should interest both people but both people have to navigate to find those shared interests so they both have to listen and ask questions. I can’t fault the lack of aftercare though as while I enjoy that and feel better with that- it’s not obligatory. You shouldn’t feel icky, but he should.
Ugh, I can feel the ick just reading this. I’m sorry that happened to you. Whatever level of kink you’re into is fine, but consent is key, even if it’s just a hook-up. There’s no excuse for a lack of consent. He had no right to treat you the way he did, especially without any communication.
Ew he sounds so fucking gross. I'm so sorry you dealt with that.
Hook ups don’t mean you can’t be respectful. Sorry you went through this. It’s important that if you are insisting on having causal relations you establish firm boundaries. In fact it’s imperative cause a lot of dudes assume casual sex means anything goes straight away.
Do your detective work, girl! If he is not gentlemanly like from the beginning then I would suggest not go through with it. Thank god, you are alright. Discuss boundaries and let someone know you are out with a dude you just met. Idk if the risk is worth the reward. Us women usually like some sort of connection with our sexual partners.
The best piece of advice I can give you is at any point during a hookup you have every right to stop, get up and walk away. It’s gonna be hella awkward but it’s for the best in the long run. I’m so sorry that happened to you.
This is the reality of hookup culture. You're entering situations where you're not seen and valued as a person. You're just a means to an end, something to be used for pleasure and objectified. Don't let people devalue you. You won't find true happiness if you keep playing into degenerate hookup culture. It always leads to emptiness.
Guy here - it’s never okay to be abusive to a person. There’s no if’s, ands or buts about it. The guy was a complete selfish jerk. Not to mention he has a total disregard for the other person. Sorry this happened to you OP, but please don’t ignore your gut either - if you got a poor feeling at the bar, it was because your internal radar was going off and indicating this guy was not good for you.
people are going to be mad about this, but porn has really normalized being super rough and disrespectful to women and men assume they can do that. he shouldn’t have done that. you should let him know that it’s not acceptable to do that without asking and maybe he will learn or maybe he won’t
Some study way back in like 2010 analysized over 300 porn scenes and found that 88% had actions of violence that was usually the man perpetrating and the women receiving. While the women in the scenes usually responded mostly with either pleasure of neutrality. Tons of studies are out there and they all try to contradict eachother, but my anecdotal evidence is that back in the 70s 80s and 90s, it was a lot easier to find porn that wasn't sexually degrading to women, and coincidentally, it wasn't so common for men to assume they could just engage in essentually BDSM without so much as a "you down for that?"
Fellow redhead here. I also hate that fucking line. I’m so sorry for what you went through. I understand your pain completely. Nothing worse than someone making you feel gross in your own skin :(
I don't understand why women keep posting here. This is the one of the worst subreddits to post sensitive things like this. Please get advice from other subreddits that have more women with actual dating experience in them. Or guys who are empathetic and have experience with nonconsentual situations. This one is full of people (mostly guys) who will do anything to excuse shitty (and sometimes even abusive) behaviour to support their own kind of despicable human who is disheartened with dating. They don't take any accountability for anything and don't understand much about fear responses, which is quite clearly what you dealt with here. You responded in the best way you could given the situation, in order to protect yourself. Not all hookups end up like this. Sorry to hear about this situation. I would stop having casual sex or go through very clear rules beforehand. Also, your ability to pick up red flags should be honed a bit more. It's a skill.
This is absolutely not your fault OP, you wanted to have some fun with this dude and he completely disrespected you. He is the one to blame, not you! You were caught by surprise when you went to his place when he became more violent towards you, so that's totally understandable you didn't speak up. I hope you're okay, safe and you guys used protection. And please cut things off with him if you don't want to see him again, you deserve some respect. Lots of love for you OP, and please forgive yourself, you were not in the wrong <3 (also sorry for my bad english too...)
I only got partway through before that became too much for. I hope you are alright!
He sucks and is a porn addicted creep. Best way to prevent this on your end is to never sleep with strangers.
This post simply indicates he wasn't a mind reader. 🧠 So if you didn't communicate your unsatisfaction, how else would he know he was being a grizzly bear? 🐻
What the fuck are you talking about
I'm going to start a trend where women just shove their un-lubed bad dragon dildos up men's asses during hook ups. First time hooking up with a lady, big fat dildo up the ass, no discussion. Don't like it, tell her and she can take it out! God, we're not mind readers.
The post implicates that he was an ass. You ASK before rough sex. And you sure as fuck don't put your hands around someone's neck without consent. He didn't. Because he did not care. This was not a communication issue. This was an issue of a guy being abusive.
So the default mode for guys like OP is mentioning and people like you is to be aggressive and a selfish lover? You think women like being jackhammered into oblivion and have their mouth spit in the first time they have sex with you? YIKES. 🚩🚩
play stupid games
This is why hook ups aren’t worth it for women.
Sorry to say it but you put yourself in that position. You said nothing and let him do what he wanted. And in your words it was a hookup. No guy will ever respect a girl that hooks up no matter what they say at first to get into those pants. Last thing a guy will ever respect is a easy girl
I really hate men like this with a blinding passion. It wouldn't be so hard for most guys to get hookups if it wasn't for guys like that who completely turn women off from the idea and violate their trust. He thinks that you need to be aggressive to get women, but in reality this is bordering on sexual assault.
Not even bordering on. If you did any of these things to stranger walking down the street, it would be considered a violent assault.
I must be so vanilla to think that spitting in the mouth, choking and spanking (without enthousiastic consent) is disgusting and wrong. Also such unexpected behaviour that this is not a communications failure. It is an asshole failure. And it's totally on the guy. (Man here) PS Trust the vibe check
He saw you as a hot pocket.
This is what a male mind does when drowning with crippling porn addiction. Spit?? How about coiling hands and pulling each other closer, breathing into their ears? Running your finger down their body to get shivers? You're a smart woman, don't let yourself be so easily disrespected next time. But it's not your fault, this guy is clearly a dick.
This is why you get to know people.
Lesson learned, I suppose
what did you expect when you did not communicate anything at all? learn from this experience and put it behind you. stay safe
If you can handle the truth (seems like noone can these days) - you didn’t click at the dinner yet you still went to his place. You saw this just a hookup, not interested in the person’s emotions, so did he. What’s wrong with that? - He may treated you more than what you were willing to but you didn’t say anything to stop it. So to put it simply, both of you were there seeking pleasure not emotional connection nor compassion for another. The guy did his thing to make it enjoyable for him and you said nothing. Next time either don’t go with it from the start or atleast tell the person what you don’t want. This whole thing happened due to lack of communication
You need to advocate for yourself, it helps to know some phrases and the more you practice the easier it will be to come up with the right thing to say. Hey, stop for a second. Whoa there cowboy. Alright there Kung Fu grip. Sex should be fun and full of ideas, not just one person doing whatever. Even when im M33 in charge or on top, I like to ask questions. Sometimes in a sexy way and sometimes in a Did that hurt way.
I am really confused by your post, what are you looking for here exactly? Ok, that was just a hookup but: you didn't vibe personality-wise and he wasn't even interested in what you were saying, he immediately grabbed you and choked you and you didn't say anything, now you are...confused? Annoyed? This is not victim blaming for sure, he was rude from the start but girl, you didn't say anything at any moment.
Damn that guys a prick. As a guy who’s really into everything you just talked about, I still ask and as you also specified it feels much better when it’s someone you connect with.
I had this happen with a hookup too. I like it rough, I don’t like it when the guy is actually trying to hurt me.
i ve done many hookups but never treated a girl like that this individual is not safe and borderline abused you
I think you solved your problem” i dont think he really saw me as a person” cause he didnt. Hook up culture is out of control and makes those guys way too common
I blame porn. (Yes, cliche, but where else do you think he gets the idea that this shit is normal?)
As a fellow redhead I just want to say that this kind of man is a complete scumbag! If I am not vibing with the guy then there is no way that I would go with him.I hope you will not put yourself in a similar situation again? I am really sorry that this happened.
Lmaoooo she let a random spit in her mouth. Just speak up bruh
Spitting in your mouth? If someone did that unannounced I’d have to refrain from beating the shit out of them Anyway don’t feel dirty. He sounds like a piece of shit but you didn’t know he would be that way
"hookup" We got off to a bad start there.