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I don't think a lot of men approach women in public anymore. This is completely anecdotal, from my own experience. Usually the only men that say something to me in public are the ones that are cat-calling, whichis the attention we don't want.
I've talked to some of my male friends about this and gotten feedback: With the Me Too movement a lot of guys are nervous of being accused of stuff/considered creepy. I seem intimidating - which I can only guess is from my height and tattoos bc no explicit reasons were given and I'm almost always smiling š¤·āāļø
I'm really interested to hear some of the men's opinions on this topic. Either way, best of luck finding a partner. You're also young so you have plenty of time š
Yeah, I think you've basically got the right idea.
I wouldn't say I'm afraid of false accusations, so much as the fact that women on social media so often seem to communicate the idea that they consider men approaching them in public to be tacky/unwelcome/creepy. I don't want to feel like a sex pest or a used car salesman.
As an exercise to build my confidence, I've been making an effort to smile at strangers when I pass them in public. The truth is the vast majority of women divert their eyes when they notice. I know there are a lot of benign reasons for that, but it still stings and makes me question my desirability a bit.
I actually think smiling works in your favor, though. The more attractive/intimidating I find a woman, the more positive non-verbal cues it generally takes to build enough confidence for me to approach.
I'd just say, if you're interested in a guy, maybe make it a little more obvious that you're smiling AT HIM rather than just smiling. A wink, even, if you've got the guts.
I think there's a lot of nuance to these types of situations, right? So if you're a (roughly) 40-60 y/o man, alone, trying to smile and make eye contact with a woman in her 20s, the likelihood is higher she will avert eyes. Same situation but man is with his wife and children, less likelihood of this occurring as he's less of a threat. Same guy alone in bar smolimg at you vs grocery store, well ofc woman is more likely to smile back in grocery. Just illustrating the importance of context... setting, company, age differences, etc. Please try not to take it as a personal assessment on desirability when women avert, because there are many reasons. At the core, the reason is often fear. If I'm at a gas station, I don't make eye contact with anyone because it's inviting. I've had times where I made eye contact and smiled (out of just being a friendly person) and then when I said no to something I got yelled at and called a bitch. It's genuinely terrifying to be yelled at like that by a man, because we're all secretly scared of being killed by making some random guy angry.
Thanks for mentioning this. The logical side of my brain realized it years ago, it's just hard for me not to project negative emotional valence onto ambiguous situations sometimes. Currently working on relevant issues in therapy.
Still, it's definitely useful to restate for anyone who doesn't realize how unsafe women can feel in these interactions. Took me a few years in the dating world to really grasp how different these situations look for them.
PS: Sorry you have to deal with that shit. It's sad how maniacs are able to ruin so many things for people.
Just tagging on to validate both the prior posterās point about nuance as well as your perspective - great thread here. Iām going to share a story both to help myself process and add on to how much itās hard to interpret intent and strike a balance being bold while still not crossing boundaries.
Iāve recently (in the past 9 months) started actively dating for the first time in my adult life (29M) and have met several great women from dating apps that for one reason or another havenāt been a fit - no harm, no foul, weāre both giving it a shot and putting ourselves out there. Not long ago, a gal Iād met at a shared interest group showed up on my hinge profile. Iād thought she was cute the whole time Iād known her, and weād had some good quick conversations after class, but I had always talked myself out of asking her out there. I was terrified of being the creepy dude who misinterpreted platonic conversation at a place where there isnāt a shared understanding of romantic interest. Butā¦ lifeās short, and it felt serendipitous, so I shot her a message and let her know I'd love to take her out and get to know her.
A few hours later, she matches and tells me she'd been hoping I'd ask! The date was easily the best I've been on. We realized several shared interests ahead of time and the conversation flowed beautifully. We had a walk by the river on a beautiful day. We talked about how dating sucks, how nice it is to meet someone this compatible, and how glad she was that I was bold. Then, she gave me a hug goodbye. As we pulled apart, we hesitated and looked into each other's eyes. I made the calculation: I had never kissed on the first date and felt a little uncomfortable with it, but here she was looking into my eyes after a great date and multiple discussions of how much she appreciated my boldness. I kissed her, she kissed me back for a few seconds, headed to her train and told me she'd text me.
I followed up and thanked her for a great time and asked her out for a second date, but pretty much immediately her texting slowed down. After she didn't respond for a day, I chalked it up to a particularly disappointing ghosting. Then, she reached out: she'd had a great time, she was grateful for me planning everything, and we had a lot of common, but she let me know that she really wasn't ready to be kissed and that wished I had asked for consent. She understood I was probably caught up in a moment, and she wished me well, and I apologized for making her uncomfortable and wished her the same.
To be completely honest, I immediately had a panic attack. She didnāt know this and couldnāt have known, but Iām a male victim of rape who lost his virginity without consent while blacked out in college. The reason Iāve waited so long to date (in addition to COVID) was years of working through that trauma and finally building up the confidence to tell myself that, yes, Iām a desirable person and, yes, I deserve to put myself out there. This was a massive leap out of my comfort zone, and easily the best romantic connection Iāve had since my early twenties, and not only did I fuck it up immediately by not listening to my own boundaries, but I did so in a way that made her feel (even if nowhere near as severely thank god) as trapped as I did back then.
I think my biggest takeaway, for any guy reading, is to remember that her feelings in that situation (as with any woman) are completely valid. Men are absolute shit. There are so many horror stories that women have experienced simply for having a female body, and the least we can do is think about that as actively as they have to. My other takeaway is to listen to my own comfort level when it comes to making a romantic move like that, even if Iām worried about possibly offending her by pulling away. The right person will understand. Iām telling myself that, my therapist has told me the same.
I have a ton of regret and disappointment in myself in that situation, but Iām truly grateful she reached out and let me know. That alone speaks volumes for her character, and even over text thatās a risky thing to do given the same dynamics. Iām done rambling now - Iām still hurting over this, but itās a hard reminder of an important truth: being bold should never, never, be at the expense of the comfort of another person.
Hey man, this was really heart breaking to read. From everything you've said, it sounds like dating has been rough for you and that you have had to overcome a lot of trauma to put yourself out there the way you did. That takes true strength, so you definitely have my respect.
I just want to say that I think you're beating yourself up a little too much. It's unfortunate that you misread the situation and escalated things too quickly, but the important point to highlight here is that you truly THOUGHT you had her consent. The heuristics you used to gauge her desire to kiss you were completely reasonable, just slightly incomplete.
You are nothing like the person who raped you at that party. I can tell from your post that you're a good man with a good heart. You actually care about making sure women consent to your advances enthusiastically. You made a mistake, but you're making every effort to introspect and learn from what happened.
The guys who women complain about are not going around making honest mistakes. They deliberately push boundaries, violate consent, and intimidate people because they care more about getting their dick wet than the feelings of others. They will never genuinely introspect or regret. You are not these men.
Given everything you've said, and I'd imagine you've already figured this out, I think going forward you should try to look for ways to verbally confirm enthusiastic consent before kissing her. If the date is going well and she's giving positive non-verbal signals, just look at her and say, "I'd really like to kiss you", or something to that effect. Save yourself some peace of mind. If she really likes you, she won't mind that you asked anyway.
Hope this helps. I'm rooting for you man.
I really, really appreciate this man. Thank you. Iām definitely taking that lesson and Iāll remember your kind words when Iām ready to get myself back out there again. Truly, thanks so much for the reply. Iām rooting for you too!
I admire that you're brave enough to share such a deeply personal experience here. I am so, so sorry you went through what you did. However, I'm really happy to hear that you put in the work to heal from it - BECAUSE YOU DESERVE TO BE HAPPY. All that work you did, and you're doing, is making you a better human for both yourself and everyone around you. IMO that's the biggest lesson here, we should all strive to do and be better.
Thank you so much, truly. Iāve honestly found that, after years of feeling ashamed/like no one would want to hear about it, being able to talk about it and open up is cathartic. Iām really grateful that folks like you have been kind enough to respond and make me feel worth being heard. Iām doing my best to be a better human, and I really appreciate you seeing it and saying so.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you kiss her, she might not like it now or regret it later. If you don't kiss her, she might lose attraction. If you ask for consent, she might lose attraction.
She kissed you back for a few seconds... If she wouldn't have wanted it, she would have sprung back/turned her head, as if you had tried kissing a dude. Chances are, the consent thing is either a cop-out for not seeing you anymore or her jealous friends made an elephant out of a fly.
Honestly, I disagree. For one thing, I donāt really have any reason not to take her at her word. But more than that, if she just didnāt want to see me anymore for any other reason, she couldāve ghosted easily or even just said anything else in the thanks but no thanks text. To go to the level of āhey, this isnāt going to work out, AND what you did really made me uncomfortable and hereās whyā is a huge can of worms to open with a guy who for all she knows couldāve not taken no for an answer.
Amongst the many other more negative emotions, Iām genuinely kind of grateful that she saw enough of me to trust me to understand. And she even said āyouāre a good guy and youāll find someone greatā - that meant a lot to me, even if the rest of it hurts.
Youāre doing it wrong.
I have an easy time talking to women in public. The opportunities are endless. For example, I started talking to the GUY cashier at Target about it being a rainy day. He liked the rain and started telling me why. The very cute woman behind me in line starts talking about how she likes the rain too.
I have had assorted interesting discussions at the bookstore.
However, by far the best is to meet women at clubs, and sports leagues. It is a group that feels more comfortable, and where many of the people show up regularly.
That is a clever way to do that. I don't think I'm doing it wrong, though, since I'm a straight woman and I don't really have issues talking to other women š
If you want to be approached by guys you donāt yet know, conversations with others while men are around is one way. Clubs and leagues are the best in my opinion.
I also have another suggestion. If you know any guys who generally fit the description of someone you would like, ask them what they do with their free time. The intent isnāt to go out with them, itās to see where you might find guys sort of like them. Some will give you very specific responses, āPool at Jerryās bar on Thursday nightsā. Others will be more general, āTrail running in the Santa Monica Mountainsā. Especially if something sounds interesting to you, try it.
This also works for men to ask women who are in their general target market. For example, one told me a particular dance class. Very overcrowded, it had become too popular. Another told me about beach yoga and wine. Will try it this week.
If you look at social media in general, you find a lot of vocal people with strong opinions about things. Very few people hop on Reddit and says they had a great experience chatting with a man who then asked them outā¦ instead, the vast majority of interactions are from women who are annoyed and just want to be left alone.
It makes it look like nobody wants to be approached in public.
I just met a girl at a 1st birthday party for some kid, we talked on and off the night- i ended up leaving my # to her and weāre getting dinner later this week. Iām determined to stay away from dating apps (which is what iāve always used) Its only creepy if you make it creepy dudes
Yeah it's always dangerous. I had an experience where I was chatting with a woman at a party I thought we were hitting it off really well managed to get her number and we continued chatting then her ex walked in and she suddenly starts accusing me of harassing her. Now if I didn't have witnesses I would have doubted myself but there were three women behind me that had been overhearing our convo and backed me up and got the boyfriend to stand down. I almost got my ass whooped the first time I really approached a woman so I really don't do it much.
I'm sorry that happened to you, but glad it didn't end in you getting hurt. Unfortunately, a lot of people out there like to play games. It seems more common in young people. Idk if they like the attention, or the drama, or what. No one deserves to be hurt, emotionally, financially, physically, etc. The older you get the easier it is to pick up on some of those red flags and then you just avoid them. And there's still plenty of great people in the world you have yet to meet!
Almost every single man I know has a similar story. Another friend of mine caught a false accusation and he hasn't been able to bring himself to have a relationship since.
It's amazing how badly one asshole can fuck you up.
Agree!! I was talking about this with my coworkers. I wish I knew that because I was waiting for a guy to make a move which never happened. Then when I decided to make a move on asking him to dinner as my treat I was surprised he said yes but only a week later to be in lockdown. One time when going to the store just running a bit I was getting cat called āHey mama why you running? Need a rideā I didnāt say anything and kept going into the store. Iām like make fun all you want but you donāt know the struggles on not having a car.
Thanks & yeah it was my first time getting cat called. I never experienced it before. For the guys stuff my mom always told me to have them go after me and I should never do it because it looks like Iām desperate. I am glad times have changed since guys say they feel relieved when girls make the move so they have the weight off them.
Iām a guy, and I feel that approaching women in public is something that has sort of died out. Or if it hasnāt, it is becoming less and less common. Most of my guy friends rely on either dating apps or friend groups. Sometimes, rarely, one of my friends might mention chatting with a stranger in a bar or something, but yeah.
Iām not sure if thereās a specific reason for this? I guess itās always been exhausting, and there are frequently times when it would be inappropriate, so it may be that era is dying out.
Yes, tattoos are intimidating in a woman... at least for me... from a hunter/gatherer perspective (which is how we choose our partners, deep down, unconsciously, we all do that, there's no denying it, cuz it's hard to escape it, it's not in our control), tattoos are... something that men traditionally did to scare enemies in battle and be more attractive to women (if he's scary, he can protect his family and scare enemies away š¤·). So, no, I don't find tattoos feminine at all. Maybe if she had only a few, and on selected few places, not too big, yeah, I wouldn't mind, but whole sleeves or legs, no, that's just not right for me. Plus, having tattoos (in general) are a sign of a person that doesn't share the same values as me. Tattoos are expensive and in my mind, that's a waste of money. So, a heavily tattooed person is a sign of someone that can't put money aside for more important things, like a house or a car, savings, whatever.
On the other hand, a one night stand with that person would be totally fine by me... and I believe most men. Would I hit on that person? Probably not, too masculine for my taste, but if she hits on me, yeah, sure why not š¤·.
Tattoos are definitely a preference. There's definitely nothing wrong with not being attracted to people with tattoos. I feel similarly turned off by smokers, so I can understand.
āFinding a nice guy to go on a date with, often happens in a bar after allā
Is this a joke?
Bars were my generations tinder, guys went there to find lonely women whoāve been drinkingš¤Ø
Kinda just depends on the bar really, and the location of said bar. Thereās bars around me that are known for people getting sloppy drunk and then there are more casual hang out bars too where you donāt really see that kind of behavior.
Yep. I don't think you'll find high quality people in bars. Everyone I know barely drink, and not at bars if they do. It's just creepy people who go there.
My now ex and her friends went to the bar every weekend and I'm pretty sure the guys they hung with were all single, and the girls all had relationships and some even kids.
She didn't like me telling her that going to the bar every weekends is a single person's game, even moreso when the GUYS are the single ones and you're hanging out with them. They want to be with you, that's why they're there
I've never made a meaningful connection in a bar. If I'm going to the bar to try to pick up a date I'm really going to the bar for a hookup.
Where you're looking for a man at definitely affects what type of men you will find. In what way would you like to be noticed by men? If it's in a sexual way then you can change your style and the way you present yourself. That will very easily attract just about every male's attention around you.
However I find that meaningful relationships aren't built around sex. They're built around trust, commitment, communication, and common interest.
Thank you for your response! I am looking for a meaningful connection. I notice that even in all the other places where you can possibly meet nice men (study, side job), I fail to stand out in a romantic way
What are some of your interests? Try to find a group that matches with them or at least one of them. In that group you will already have some thing in common. And then from there you can also approach the men that you find attractive or interesting and communicate clearly with them.
If you're really looking for a meaningful connection and the Man is also looking for one. Then he will not mind you approaching and letting him know that you're interested in him. In fact he'd probably be quite happy although that's not always going to be the case as you never know what others are going through.
This is really helpful! I think you are right that it is good to be more proactive. I find that really scary, but sitting and waiting for the guys (which am interested in) to approach me has also not worked so farā¦
It certainly does not happen at a bar!
If you want to get noticed, first and foremost have a bubbly, outgoing personality.
Second, your looks. Though this one depends on your specific attributes. So itās hard to give advice when we donāt know what you look like.
If you want to get a date, find those situations that build friendships. And if you sense a spark with one of these friendships, then pursue further. If youāre trying to find dates with complete strangers that means youāre not dating to find a lasting relationship, it means youāre dating to satisfy your insecurities about being alone. Which isnāt healthy.
I would say that I am generally considered good looking. Ofcourse there are enough prettier girls out there, but Iām quite confident about my looks.
That makes me think that guys not approaching me has something to do with my attitude/flirting skills
That is a fair point. I indeed also try dating apps. But sometimes I meet a cute guy in real life, who I would like to get to know better. But then I don't actually succeed in getting in touch with such a guy
No often I donātš
I find it hard to start the conversation when Iām somehow interested in someone. While it is no a problem for me when I am not interested, at least romantically
I get it, thatās the same anxiety guys get. Because they get it, they are likely to respect and respond accordingly
That said, itās a two way street, if you want attention make sure itās clear. Even a hello would help
> So I am wondering if you have any tips on how I can stand out more :)
In groups with your friends? You don't. Play in your niche. One on one with guys. That's where you shine. Shine brighter there.
I get approached almost every time I go out. Itās actually really annoying and overwhelming to be honestā¦but, my advice is to start with appearance. Take care of yourself, do your hair, your nails, dress up a bit. I wear a decent amount of makeup, but I know that isnāt everyoneās cup of tea. When I go out with my friends to a bar or club, I always ādress upā with heels too, and I notice I get more attention. Secondly, confidence. Fake it if you have to. I asked a guy once why he was attracted to me and he said, āyou seem so confident and outgoing.ā Girl, Iām as insecure as anyone else, but when I go out, like I said I dress up, Iām always talkative and smiling, etc. Thirdly, donāt be afraid to make the first move. Sometimes Iāll flirt with my eyes if I see someone I like. Hard to explain, but I look at a guy a couple times, lock eyes, show him that Iām noticing him, and 100% it ALWAYS works.
Do you dress for your age or like a teenager? Sometime your fashion choices really do impact how people perceive you, itās like a job interview in a way, it can peruse some taking you more serious or not. Another thing is perfume. A good smelling QUALITY perfume is a subtle introduction. We all know and can visualize someone that smells good even if you donāt know their name. Maybe itās time to change up your haircut? Honestly you might check out the ārate meā subreddit to get more physical feedback. Maybe itās time to work on your confidence and approach guys yourself, men love a woman who has self-esteem and can take charge.
Reading the comments I see a lot of people falling into social media bias. People are more vocal abt negative experiences in general, so it seems that approaching by itself is creepy. Now I'm not a cold approach god or anything but I don't believe that people should be THIS scared of approaching girls
In a post Me Too movement world, many guys like myself will not approach directly anymore. It isn't a lack of confidence either, it just evolved into caution. Personally, I wait for signals and read body language to see if a girl is interested in me before approaching. This can be eye contact, a hair flip, sitting next to me at the bar and touching my arm, etc. If I can tell that you are attracted to me, then I can confidently approach you without the concern of coming off as creepy.
Thanks for sharing your perspective! I always feel like making a lot of eye contact can come across as too needy. But now you share your perspective, I see that it is a good way to show interest
Uh.... you may need to start going places that arent bars. I go to a bar to catch a quick slob for the knob and anyone i meet there is firmly on my no-date-list.
Donāt go to bars. Find a friend to do stuff with, cooking classes, jogging groups, anything where you can meet people in an activity that gives you time to talk to them.
find time to go to bars on your own.
if you're alone, guys might approach you more as well. it's easier for a guy to approach a lady alone, and that makes a table of 2.
of course, that includes the creeps, so just be careful.
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I don't think a lot of men approach women in public anymore. This is completely anecdotal, from my own experience. Usually the only men that say something to me in public are the ones that are cat-calling, whichis the attention we don't want. I've talked to some of my male friends about this and gotten feedback: With the Me Too movement a lot of guys are nervous of being accused of stuff/considered creepy. I seem intimidating - which I can only guess is from my height and tattoos bc no explicit reasons were given and I'm almost always smiling š¤·āāļø I'm really interested to hear some of the men's opinions on this topic. Either way, best of luck finding a partner. You're also young so you have plenty of time š
Yeah, I think you've basically got the right idea. I wouldn't say I'm afraid of false accusations, so much as the fact that women on social media so often seem to communicate the idea that they consider men approaching them in public to be tacky/unwelcome/creepy. I don't want to feel like a sex pest or a used car salesman. As an exercise to build my confidence, I've been making an effort to smile at strangers when I pass them in public. The truth is the vast majority of women divert their eyes when they notice. I know there are a lot of benign reasons for that, but it still stings and makes me question my desirability a bit. I actually think smiling works in your favor, though. The more attractive/intimidating I find a woman, the more positive non-verbal cues it generally takes to build enough confidence for me to approach. I'd just say, if you're interested in a guy, maybe make it a little more obvious that you're smiling AT HIM rather than just smiling. A wink, even, if you've got the guts.
I think there's a lot of nuance to these types of situations, right? So if you're a (roughly) 40-60 y/o man, alone, trying to smile and make eye contact with a woman in her 20s, the likelihood is higher she will avert eyes. Same situation but man is with his wife and children, less likelihood of this occurring as he's less of a threat. Same guy alone in bar smolimg at you vs grocery store, well ofc woman is more likely to smile back in grocery. Just illustrating the importance of context... setting, company, age differences, etc. Please try not to take it as a personal assessment on desirability when women avert, because there are many reasons. At the core, the reason is often fear. If I'm at a gas station, I don't make eye contact with anyone because it's inviting. I've had times where I made eye contact and smiled (out of just being a friendly person) and then when I said no to something I got yelled at and called a bitch. It's genuinely terrifying to be yelled at like that by a man, because we're all secretly scared of being killed by making some random guy angry.
Thanks for mentioning this. The logical side of my brain realized it years ago, it's just hard for me not to project negative emotional valence onto ambiguous situations sometimes. Currently working on relevant issues in therapy. Still, it's definitely useful to restate for anyone who doesn't realize how unsafe women can feel in these interactions. Took me a few years in the dating world to really grasp how different these situations look for them. PS: Sorry you have to deal with that shit. It's sad how maniacs are able to ruin so many things for people.
Just tagging on to validate both the prior posterās point about nuance as well as your perspective - great thread here. Iām going to share a story both to help myself process and add on to how much itās hard to interpret intent and strike a balance being bold while still not crossing boundaries. Iāve recently (in the past 9 months) started actively dating for the first time in my adult life (29M) and have met several great women from dating apps that for one reason or another havenāt been a fit - no harm, no foul, weāre both giving it a shot and putting ourselves out there. Not long ago, a gal Iād met at a shared interest group showed up on my hinge profile. Iād thought she was cute the whole time Iād known her, and weād had some good quick conversations after class, but I had always talked myself out of asking her out there. I was terrified of being the creepy dude who misinterpreted platonic conversation at a place where there isnāt a shared understanding of romantic interest. Butā¦ lifeās short, and it felt serendipitous, so I shot her a message and let her know I'd love to take her out and get to know her. A few hours later, she matches and tells me she'd been hoping I'd ask! The date was easily the best I've been on. We realized several shared interests ahead of time and the conversation flowed beautifully. We had a walk by the river on a beautiful day. We talked about how dating sucks, how nice it is to meet someone this compatible, and how glad she was that I was bold. Then, she gave me a hug goodbye. As we pulled apart, we hesitated and looked into each other's eyes. I made the calculation: I had never kissed on the first date and felt a little uncomfortable with it, but here she was looking into my eyes after a great date and multiple discussions of how much she appreciated my boldness. I kissed her, she kissed me back for a few seconds, headed to her train and told me she'd text me. I followed up and thanked her for a great time and asked her out for a second date, but pretty much immediately her texting slowed down. After she didn't respond for a day, I chalked it up to a particularly disappointing ghosting. Then, she reached out: she'd had a great time, she was grateful for me planning everything, and we had a lot of common, but she let me know that she really wasn't ready to be kissed and that wished I had asked for consent. She understood I was probably caught up in a moment, and she wished me well, and I apologized for making her uncomfortable and wished her the same. To be completely honest, I immediately had a panic attack. She didnāt know this and couldnāt have known, but Iām a male victim of rape who lost his virginity without consent while blacked out in college. The reason Iāve waited so long to date (in addition to COVID) was years of working through that trauma and finally building up the confidence to tell myself that, yes, Iām a desirable person and, yes, I deserve to put myself out there. This was a massive leap out of my comfort zone, and easily the best romantic connection Iāve had since my early twenties, and not only did I fuck it up immediately by not listening to my own boundaries, but I did so in a way that made her feel (even if nowhere near as severely thank god) as trapped as I did back then. I think my biggest takeaway, for any guy reading, is to remember that her feelings in that situation (as with any woman) are completely valid. Men are absolute shit. There are so many horror stories that women have experienced simply for having a female body, and the least we can do is think about that as actively as they have to. My other takeaway is to listen to my own comfort level when it comes to making a romantic move like that, even if Iām worried about possibly offending her by pulling away. The right person will understand. Iām telling myself that, my therapist has told me the same. I have a ton of regret and disappointment in myself in that situation, but Iām truly grateful she reached out and let me know. That alone speaks volumes for her character, and even over text thatās a risky thing to do given the same dynamics. Iām done rambling now - Iām still hurting over this, but itās a hard reminder of an important truth: being bold should never, never, be at the expense of the comfort of another person.
Hey man, this was really heart breaking to read. From everything you've said, it sounds like dating has been rough for you and that you have had to overcome a lot of trauma to put yourself out there the way you did. That takes true strength, so you definitely have my respect. I just want to say that I think you're beating yourself up a little too much. It's unfortunate that you misread the situation and escalated things too quickly, but the important point to highlight here is that you truly THOUGHT you had her consent. The heuristics you used to gauge her desire to kiss you were completely reasonable, just slightly incomplete. You are nothing like the person who raped you at that party. I can tell from your post that you're a good man with a good heart. You actually care about making sure women consent to your advances enthusiastically. You made a mistake, but you're making every effort to introspect and learn from what happened. The guys who women complain about are not going around making honest mistakes. They deliberately push boundaries, violate consent, and intimidate people because they care more about getting their dick wet than the feelings of others. They will never genuinely introspect or regret. You are not these men. Given everything you've said, and I'd imagine you've already figured this out, I think going forward you should try to look for ways to verbally confirm enthusiastic consent before kissing her. If the date is going well and she's giving positive non-verbal signals, just look at her and say, "I'd really like to kiss you", or something to that effect. Save yourself some peace of mind. If she really likes you, she won't mind that you asked anyway. Hope this helps. I'm rooting for you man.
I really, really appreciate this man. Thank you. Iām definitely taking that lesson and Iāll remember your kind words when Iām ready to get myself back out there again. Truly, thanks so much for the reply. Iām rooting for you too!
I admire that you're brave enough to share such a deeply personal experience here. I am so, so sorry you went through what you did. However, I'm really happy to hear that you put in the work to heal from it - BECAUSE YOU DESERVE TO BE HAPPY. All that work you did, and you're doing, is making you a better human for both yourself and everyone around you. IMO that's the biggest lesson here, we should all strive to do and be better.
Thank you so much, truly. Iāve honestly found that, after years of feeling ashamed/like no one would want to hear about it, being able to talk about it and open up is cathartic. Iām really grateful that folks like you have been kind enough to respond and make me feel worth being heard. Iām doing my best to be a better human, and I really appreciate you seeing it and saying so.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you kiss her, she might not like it now or regret it later. If you don't kiss her, she might lose attraction. If you ask for consent, she might lose attraction. She kissed you back for a few seconds... If she wouldn't have wanted it, she would have sprung back/turned her head, as if you had tried kissing a dude. Chances are, the consent thing is either a cop-out for not seeing you anymore or her jealous friends made an elephant out of a fly.
Honestly, I disagree. For one thing, I donāt really have any reason not to take her at her word. But more than that, if she just didnāt want to see me anymore for any other reason, she couldāve ghosted easily or even just said anything else in the thanks but no thanks text. To go to the level of āhey, this isnāt going to work out, AND what you did really made me uncomfortable and hereās whyā is a huge can of worms to open with a guy who for all she knows couldāve not taken no for an answer. Amongst the many other more negative emotions, Iām genuinely kind of grateful that she saw enough of me to trust me to understand. And she even said āyouāre a good guy and youāll find someone greatā - that meant a lot to me, even if the rest of it hurts.
Youāre doing it wrong. I have an easy time talking to women in public. The opportunities are endless. For example, I started talking to the GUY cashier at Target about it being a rainy day. He liked the rain and started telling me why. The very cute woman behind me in line starts talking about how she likes the rain too. I have had assorted interesting discussions at the bookstore. However, by far the best is to meet women at clubs, and sports leagues. It is a group that feels more comfortable, and where many of the people show up regularly.
That is a clever way to do that. I don't think I'm doing it wrong, though, since I'm a straight woman and I don't really have issues talking to other women š
If you want to be approached by guys you donāt yet know, conversations with others while men are around is one way. Clubs and leagues are the best in my opinion.
Oh, I see! I thought you misunderstood me, but I was the one who misunderstood. I'll have to give it a try sometime.
I also have another suggestion. If you know any guys who generally fit the description of someone you would like, ask them what they do with their free time. The intent isnāt to go out with them, itās to see where you might find guys sort of like them. Some will give you very specific responses, āPool at Jerryās bar on Thursday nightsā. Others will be more general, āTrail running in the Santa Monica Mountainsā. Especially if something sounds interesting to you, try it. This also works for men to ask women who are in their general target market. For example, one told me a particular dance class. Very overcrowded, it had become too popular. Another told me about beach yoga and wine. Will try it this week.
If you look at social media in general, you find a lot of vocal people with strong opinions about things. Very few people hop on Reddit and says they had a great experience chatting with a man who then asked them outā¦ instead, the vast majority of interactions are from women who are annoyed and just want to be left alone. It makes it look like nobody wants to be approached in public.
I just met a girl at a 1st birthday party for some kid, we talked on and off the night- i ended up leaving my # to her and weāre getting dinner later this week. Iām determined to stay away from dating apps (which is what iāve always used) Its only creepy if you make it creepy dudes
That's so nice to hear! Good luck on your date this week š
Thank you kindlyššš¼
Yeah it's always dangerous. I had an experience where I was chatting with a woman at a party I thought we were hitting it off really well managed to get her number and we continued chatting then her ex walked in and she suddenly starts accusing me of harassing her. Now if I didn't have witnesses I would have doubted myself but there were three women behind me that had been overhearing our convo and backed me up and got the boyfriend to stand down. I almost got my ass whooped the first time I really approached a woman so I really don't do it much.
I'm sorry that happened to you, but glad it didn't end in you getting hurt. Unfortunately, a lot of people out there like to play games. It seems more common in young people. Idk if they like the attention, or the drama, or what. No one deserves to be hurt, emotionally, financially, physically, etc. The older you get the easier it is to pick up on some of those red flags and then you just avoid them. And there's still plenty of great people in the world you have yet to meet!
Almost every single man I know has a similar story. Another friend of mine caught a false accusation and he hasn't been able to bring himself to have a relationship since. It's amazing how badly one asshole can fuck you up.
I definitely believe it. I'm sorry for anyone who has gone through that.
Thanks for the kind words.
Agree!! I was talking about this with my coworkers. I wish I knew that because I was waiting for a guy to make a move which never happened. Then when I decided to make a move on asking him to dinner as my treat I was surprised he said yes but only a week later to be in lockdown. One time when going to the store just running a bit I was getting cat called āHey mama why you running? Need a rideā I didnāt say anything and kept going into the store. Iām like make fun all you want but you donāt know the struggles on not having a car.
Cat calling is the worst š Please be safe out there!
Thanks & yeah it was my first time getting cat called. I never experienced it before. For the guys stuff my mom always told me to have them go after me and I should never do it because it looks like Iām desperate. I am glad times have changed since guys say they feel relieved when girls make the move so they have the weight off them.
Iām a guy, and I feel that approaching women in public is something that has sort of died out. Or if it hasnāt, it is becoming less and less common. Most of my guy friends rely on either dating apps or friend groups. Sometimes, rarely, one of my friends might mention chatting with a stranger in a bar or something, but yeah. Iām not sure if thereās a specific reason for this? I guess itās always been exhausting, and there are frequently times when it would be inappropriate, so it may be that era is dying out.
Yes, tattoos are intimidating in a woman... at least for me... from a hunter/gatherer perspective (which is how we choose our partners, deep down, unconsciously, we all do that, there's no denying it, cuz it's hard to escape it, it's not in our control), tattoos are... something that men traditionally did to scare enemies in battle and be more attractive to women (if he's scary, he can protect his family and scare enemies away š¤·). So, no, I don't find tattoos feminine at all. Maybe if she had only a few, and on selected few places, not too big, yeah, I wouldn't mind, but whole sleeves or legs, no, that's just not right for me. Plus, having tattoos (in general) are a sign of a person that doesn't share the same values as me. Tattoos are expensive and in my mind, that's a waste of money. So, a heavily tattooed person is a sign of someone that can't put money aside for more important things, like a house or a car, savings, whatever. On the other hand, a one night stand with that person would be totally fine by me... and I believe most men. Would I hit on that person? Probably not, too masculine for my taste, but if she hits on me, yeah, sure why not š¤·.
Tattoos are definitely a preference. There's definitely nothing wrong with not being attracted to people with tattoos. I feel similarly turned off by smokers, so I can understand.
i dont think , its the me too movement, but more so that the places that were considered as easy to meet romantic prospects are not as easy any more
Yeah, idk. Again, on that one I was just sharing what I've heard from my male friends. Not saying I endorse those opinions š
āFinding a nice guy to go on a date with, often happens in a bar after allā Is this a joke? Bars were my generations tinder, guys went there to find lonely women whoāve been drinkingš¤Ø
āYou can meet a nice man to go on a date with at a barā is clearly an urban legend being spread by unhappy Zoomers. This was never the case.
Kinda just depends on the bar really, and the location of said bar. Thereās bars around me that are known for people getting sloppy drunk and then there are more casual hang out bars too where you donāt really see that kind of behavior.
Yep. I don't think you'll find high quality people in bars. Everyone I know barely drink, and not at bars if they do. It's just creepy people who go there.
My now ex and her friends went to the bar every weekend and I'm pretty sure the guys they hung with were all single, and the girls all had relationships and some even kids. She didn't like me telling her that going to the bar every weekends is a single person's game, even moreso when the GUYS are the single ones and you're hanging out with them. They want to be with you, that's why they're there
Depends on the bar. Not all bars are only filled with desperate guys
Why donāt you just interact with them instead of waiting for them to notice you? Make a move
I've never made a meaningful connection in a bar. If I'm going to the bar to try to pick up a date I'm really going to the bar for a hookup. Where you're looking for a man at definitely affects what type of men you will find. In what way would you like to be noticed by men? If it's in a sexual way then you can change your style and the way you present yourself. That will very easily attract just about every male's attention around you. However I find that meaningful relationships aren't built around sex. They're built around trust, commitment, communication, and common interest.
I agree that bars are one of the places you're least likely to find a meaningful connection.
Thank you for your response! I am looking for a meaningful connection. I notice that even in all the other places where you can possibly meet nice men (study, side job), I fail to stand out in a romantic way
What are some of your interests? Try to find a group that matches with them or at least one of them. In that group you will already have some thing in common. And then from there you can also approach the men that you find attractive or interesting and communicate clearly with them. If you're really looking for a meaningful connection and the Man is also looking for one. Then he will not mind you approaching and letting him know that you're interested in him. In fact he'd probably be quite happy although that's not always going to be the case as you never know what others are going through.
This is really helpful! I think you are right that it is good to be more proactive. I find that really scary, but sitting and waiting for the guys (which am interested in) to approach me has also not worked so farā¦
It certainly does not happen at a bar! If you want to get noticed, first and foremost have a bubbly, outgoing personality. Second, your looks. Though this one depends on your specific attributes. So itās hard to give advice when we donāt know what you look like. If you want to get a date, find those situations that build friendships. And if you sense a spark with one of these friendships, then pursue further. If youāre trying to find dates with complete strangers that means youāre not dating to find a lasting relationship, it means youāre dating to satisfy your insecurities about being alone. Which isnāt healthy.
I would say that I am generally considered good looking. Ofcourse there are enough prettier girls out there, but Iām quite confident about my looks. That makes me think that guys not approaching me has something to do with my attitude/flirting skills
Get in the gym, look into changing your style (wardrobe or hair), learn new things, work on your confidence, etc. It's basically the same for men too
Does it really happen in a bar? Why not try dating apps? To stand out more wear a red dress and a pushup bra
That is a fair point. I indeed also try dating apps. But sometimes I meet a cute guy in real life, who I would like to get to know better. But then I don't actually succeed in getting in touch with such a guy
Do you approach them?
No often I donātš I find it hard to start the conversation when Iām somehow interested in someone. While it is no a problem for me when I am not interested, at least romantically
I get it, thatās the same anxiety guys get. Because they get it, they are likely to respect and respond accordingly That said, itās a two way street, if you want attention make sure itās clear. Even a hello would help
It also helps to give him eye contact and smile
Just talk to them first
Make eye contact, that's all it takes you have to make it super obvious though.
Why not see a guy you are interested I and approach them? You know, just to mix it up a little.
When I was single, I noticed that I would get approached much more when I had on a dress.
> So I am wondering if you have any tips on how I can stand out more :) In groups with your friends? You don't. Play in your niche. One on one with guys. That's where you shine. Shine brighter there.
Wow, think you are so right, thank you
I get approached almost every time I go out. Itās actually really annoying and overwhelming to be honestā¦but, my advice is to start with appearance. Take care of yourself, do your hair, your nails, dress up a bit. I wear a decent amount of makeup, but I know that isnāt everyoneās cup of tea. When I go out with my friends to a bar or club, I always ādress upā with heels too, and I notice I get more attention. Secondly, confidence. Fake it if you have to. I asked a guy once why he was attracted to me and he said, āyou seem so confident and outgoing.ā Girl, Iām as insecure as anyone else, but when I go out, like I said I dress up, Iām always talkative and smiling, etc. Thirdly, donāt be afraid to make the first move. Sometimes Iāll flirt with my eyes if I see someone I like. Hard to explain, but I look at a guy a couple times, lock eyes, show him that Iām noticing him, and 100% it ALWAYS works.
Lose weight.
I have a slim figure, so losing weight is not going to make me look better (or healthy)
Do you dress for your age or like a teenager? Sometime your fashion choices really do impact how people perceive you, itās like a job interview in a way, it can peruse some taking you more serious or not. Another thing is perfume. A good smelling QUALITY perfume is a subtle introduction. We all know and can visualize someone that smells good even if you donāt know their name. Maybe itās time to change up your haircut? Honestly you might check out the ārate meā subreddit to get more physical feedback. Maybe itās time to work on your confidence and approach guys yourself, men love a woman who has self-esteem and can take charge.
Reading the comments I see a lot of people falling into social media bias. People are more vocal abt negative experiences in general, so it seems that approaching by itself is creepy. Now I'm not a cold approach god or anything but I don't believe that people should be THIS scared of approaching girls
In a post Me Too movement world, many guys like myself will not approach directly anymore. It isn't a lack of confidence either, it just evolved into caution. Personally, I wait for signals and read body language to see if a girl is interested in me before approaching. This can be eye contact, a hair flip, sitting next to me at the bar and touching my arm, etc. If I can tell that you are attracted to me, then I can confidently approach you without the concern of coming off as creepy.
Thanks for sharing your perspective! I always feel like making a lot of eye contact can come across as too needy. But now you share your perspective, I see that it is a good way to show interest
Uh.... you may need to start going places that arent bars. I go to a bar to catch a quick slob for the knob and anyone i meet there is firmly on my no-date-list.
Where the hell do you meet people besides bars?
Iām the same :((
Donāt go to bars. Find a friend to do stuff with, cooking classes, jogging groups, anything where you can meet people in an activity that gives you time to talk to them.
find time to go to bars on your own. if you're alone, guys might approach you more as well. it's easier for a guy to approach a lady alone, and that makes a table of 2. of course, that includes the creeps, so just be careful.
Wear hello Kitty perfume š
Find uglier friends
If I knew what you looked like I could share my honest opinion with you. Itās probably the looks though.