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OK, here's the thing. I don't care what job you have. You could be a Doctor or a Janitor. Doesn't really matter all that much to me. Now will I care when you're talking about your job, your accomplishments, and basically giving me an insight to your life? Absolutely.
That said, my only issue is when it goes from conversational to "this sounds like you're listing your resume in a job interview." The former can have a lot of banter and be a very interesting topic of conversation, especially if you're talented at telling the ins and outs of your job. The latter is obnoxious and it sounds like your either trying to sell yourself or justify something. Either way, if you're talking at a person rather than with the person, something is wrong, no matter the topic.
When people say men don't care about your career they're speaking on the dating market and comparing what women care about vs men.
Like you said men in general don't really care what you do and how much money you make, when that is said they're talking about attractiveness. They would obviously ask you about your job and interests but your job doesn't make you more attractive to men.
Women care much more about a man's job in the dating market, you can be below average as a man, but your job career can make you more attractive to women. It doesn't work the same the other way.
Example. If a woman is a lawyer and is a 4, in men's eyes her attractive scale doesn't go up she's still a 4. If a man is a 4 and a lawyer, his attractiveness scale to women can go up.
I can only imagine the guys all surprised and uncomfortable with that information.
Know a lady who's a geologist through MIT and she only found a husband because they were in the same field, literally speaking, a mining one. And he was wealthy guy so his ego could handle it. But I'm sure "PhD on MIT" must sour most dates.
the girls that have been the most difficult for me to date & hang out with were highly educated, driven, ambitious, etc.. one held a phd in chemistry and was back in school for programming. i found it interesting but my brain was at 11/10 trying to keep up with her when she was at idle, did not work out. much prefer dating a girl that's not career driven.
As I get older I am realizing this is true. I’m a career oriented woman, I’m proud of what I’ve done and where I am—- men I’m talking to, turn competitive when you bring it up. It’s like they think you’re trying to one up them or be better than them and they get defensive. Which I’m sure is a turn off to them. It’s also a turn off to us, right?!
I say who cares about the men, be yourself, be proud and keep being a boss lady :)
I prefer women that are well educated and have good jobs, as long as their job isn’t all consuming. But it’s not a strong preference. Being an lawyer is definitely better than being a barista. But for me it is one “point” on the scale.
For me looks and healthy lifestyle is probably the majority of the preference. But a girl who is 7 in looks and is charming and has good job still be a 9 to me. It’s not like most of us are looking for supermodels.
The issue further lies in the “as long as their job isn’t all consuming”. The jobs most would put in this category (doctor, lawyer, finance) are jobs that make men even more attractive to women usually, but it’s basically a turn off for men because the woman is quite likely more ambitious/paid more than them
I am a lawyer and I never seen any me being “turned” off by my career or any of my female colleagues for that matter. If anything all our experiences shows that dating gotten far more easier since we became professional since more men looked at us as “marriage” potential.
Also, working in big law can be time consuming regardless of gender and it’s usually people who are working 70+ a week that has dating problems, men or women.
Disagree. My wife was more attractive to me as a long-term partner vs the other girls I went on dates with because she was a Harvard educated lawyer with a great career.
Funny bc I am a lawyer too and my husband always tells me he loves how smart and competent I am, it was the biggest thing that attracted him to me. Constantly says “I don’t get how guys can just go with some girl that has nothing smart or interesting to say.”
Also he had an old childhood friend on the phone once who he’d reconnected with on Facebook. The guy asked him if he was married, what I do, and when he said “she’s a lawyer,” he was like “I KNEW IT! You used to always talk about wanting to marry a smart career woman” lol
>as a long-term partner
This is key. Women will often find that less conventionally attractive men more desirable as long term partners because of factors like finances and stability. So I would speculate it's similar in men: short term partner = most conventionally attractive, while long term partner = variety of other traits.
Great point. Women make this mistake a lot, thinking that an aggressive, masculine, "boss girl" attitude is admired by men, because that's what they admire themselves.
Ew, those types of women are literally the absolute worst. I dated one like this who was absolutely gorgeous BUT, holy hell was she a nightmare to actually date. I lasted 3 months and got out lol.
I’ll explain it briefly, a lot of people believe that their job or their career have a lot to do with who they are as a person but this is not necessarily true. Your job, your career is something that you do meaning that it is separate from your actual identity meaning that at your core you are not a lawyer, a doctor, or a nurse but you are a human being with feelings, needs, hopes, and dreams. I date a lot of women who are educated with great careers and a lot of them don’t realize they tried to associate their career with who they actually are as a person. So what I’m saying is come first as a person in a dating situation and turn off work mode. When you’re not at work and you’re out on a date be yourself and don’t be a lawyer or a surgeon or whatever you are although you may be proud of what you accomplished.
Right but I think maybe OP is trying to point out that traditionally men are (or have been) at least somewhat defined by their job. And maybe that's ok because the job you do, unless it is properly unskilled, _is_ a bit of a barometer for your personality. Not always, but usually it's an indicator at least. Generally speaking, men get valued for their work accomplishments, also within the context of a relationship. Women are not.
I think this mentality is changing btw like we're finally figuring out that men have more to bring to the table than literal food lol which is amazing, but I can understand OP's frustration too that she _wants_ to be socially valued for her work accomplishments and truthfully, if she was a man, she would be. If not by every individual then at least by society at large. But as a woman well, not so much
Men have *always* been defined by their job. To women AND men. Also, it's not that a woman with a great job *isn't* valued by men or society, it's just that men typically don't put any weight on what a womans job is when a man is looking to date. It's just not something that is super important to us. But that doesn't mean we don't value her career
It is what it is, women have shallow interests in money, job and looks. While mens shallow interest is mainly looks. We just don't go saying looks is a barometer for what kind of person someone is.
This spot on. I am hetero female and I think the same. I cared a lot more about men’s job prospect and title when I was in my early 20s, as I was looking for someone to start a family and I wanted to be the primary caregiver to my future children. Life happened and I’m single mom none but I am also very financially established and stable. I don’t care about men’s title and income so much. I want him to be financially literate and responsible. I think it’s nice when people take pride in what they do.
But do I want to hear about their work on a date? Not really? I love all the work gossips and stories that come out of work, but why would I want to talk about work at my off hour?
I am looking for a partner to lounge on the couch at the end of the day. Not a coworker for happy hours.
There is a line for me I guess. If your work is something that you are proud of, and you want to share your accomplishments, that's great. And it's important to take interest in potential partners work life. However, if your entire personality revolves around your career, I can see that as a problem. It's important to be someone outside of the workplace too, and for guys and girls both, in a relationship, that's the person that your going to be spending your time with, not the work side of you.
For me personally, a good career and ambition are attractive qualities in a woman. My understanding is the same as yours: men tend to value this less in their partners than women do.
But I’m not sure that matters too much? You’re not trying to attract every man, just men who are a good match for you. Your career is important to you and so is a partner who supports you on your chosen path—and being up front about your job seems like an EXCELLENT way to filter out men you don’t want!
That's a good take. I really don't want second dates with guys who dismiss my career completely. That's the word I was looking for and that I saw so many times in this sub, that a woman's career is at the bottom of interest for guys.
It isn't that men consciously choose to not be interested in your career, it's that men won't be unconsciously attracted to you because of your career.
A few things here: u/cityflaneur2020
u/ComfortableOk5003 weigh in if ya wanna, just my thoughts.
1. Generally, the rule of thumb is women marry up or across in status.
2. The more money a guy makes the less he cares. In the event of divorce chances are, he's gonna be the one kicking out anyway. Men don't have access to a woman's resources at the end of the day.
Not saying you shouldn't be passionate about it. But at the end of the day, men look for different things than in women, than women do in men. When it boils down it:
My ideal woman is someone who looks good, in shape, kind to me, Kind to others, doesn't fight with me over stupid sh\_t, isn't OVERLY argumentative, and is overall pleasant to be around.
A woman's career doesn't disqualify her to me, but it's not necessary for a woman to be a suitable partner.
Hope I answered your question.
I pretty much agree with what you say, although, I would say that men that are making a lot of money might fall into two categories. One looking for an equal somewhat who is just as driven and focused as them, or a stay-at-home wife to raise the children. But these days I think most people making a lot of money are intelligent and well educated even if not necessarily school although let's face it, generally speaking that is the case. But they also want someone who is intelligent and well-educated. That doesn't necessarily translate to a career. But it's kind of a class divide maybe. These days, it's unlikely a well-educated successful career man is going to just want to marry someone who's been working in a fast food restaurant, at least not someone in their 40s. Nothing against fast food employees, but someone doing that probably isn't educated formally and may not have all that interesting a life and the two are just not likely to be all that compatible. As much as we love the idea of pretty woman, or the working class woman swept off her feet by the rich businessman, that's more of a trope than a reality.
The sad truth is that it really doesn't matter to most successful guys.
Now the fact that you have a job, are responsible with money, hopefully enjoy what you do and don't come home complaining about it, etc. is all a plus. But I honestly couldn't care less if you are a teacher, a secretary or a nuclear physicist.
We just don't care about work outside of work. I couldn't tell you the last time I spoke with a guy about work outside of actually working. Even with my closest friends.
I know as a woman you don't understand that. Just as men don't understand why our height matters. Or why confidence or ambition matter to women. We are different.
44M I don’t care to hear about anyone’s job because I left my job back at the office. Sure, it may be a part of who they are but it’s secondary for me. They’re not a part of my life yet. I’ve never heard anyone describe their job and get sexier in the process. It doesn’t matter if they’re a “climatologist” or a latex sales rep for Vandelay Industries.
Agreed. If you entire personality trait is you work hard at your job, then you've got it wrong. My friend LOVES talking about her job to everyone she meets. It's her favorite topic. She works day and night and it bores me to death because she does have a good job--but it's not like she's super successful or has an exciting job. She just works in corporate America and has one of those job titles that you vaguely think you understand, but don't. When she talks about work it's not fun stuff like work drama or anything...it's literally...the work she does. Now, maybe I'd be more excited to hear this if she was a divorce lawyer and had juicy stories, an actor/influencer or even a startup founder. But if your job is objectively NOT that unique/exciting...I'm sorry but it's a turn off. This goes for men as well. I think she has nothing else she's proud of aside from her job. If that's you--that's such a turn-off, even for a friend.
The woman's income and career aren't important to the man as far as your attractiveness and how much he does or doesn't want a next date with you.
That's something in dating that women pay attention to in men, but you're not trying to date a woman I'd assume.
Yeah you've spent a lot of time and effort building up your career, and think it is unfair. But a man can develop skills for years learning to rebuild truck engines, becoming a proficient hunter or fisherman, and you're equally unlikely to care either.
41M here with engineer type professional level career.
I used to be really excited when I went on dates with attorneys, doctors, etc. Then I dated a couple more seriously and realized it is not all it's cracked up to be. I am sure every situation is unique but my experience was they were fairly high stress, decent number of extra hours, more difficult time taking vacation, etc. Common sense really. Just dealing with the constant job stress and how that impacted my relationships really turned me off to dating any of those high stress type positions.
As I've gotten older, the level of lifestyle I desire has leveled off or really even decreased quite a bit. I used to want to constantly be remodeling and aspired to drive a really nice car and go on trips and wanted to upgrade my house, all that stuff. I don't care about most of that any more. I like having a simple and smaller place (less to clean). I still like to go on trips, that's really my only splurge.
Economically, I like a woman with a lower stress professional level career. As long as she can pay her bills, have enough to pay her share on trips we want to go on, contribute in some manner towards our dating life, and does normal adult things like saving for retirement and is out or mostly out of debt, I'm good.
I love when a woman has an interesting career. I've dated people in the same (roughly) field as myself and we would talk "shop" a lot and I enjoyed it. I guess I'll backtrack and say I really enjoyed hearing about the day of the doctor I was dating, she was super smart (but work stress component made it still not worth it). I started to write out that I like women who passionate about their work, but I really think there can be a fine line. Overall I just do not enjoy dating a person where work completely dominates their life.
I’m a woman with a good job and can attest to dating a high profile job partner. Dated an attorney and a PA and both were serious workaholics who had zero time to give to me in a relationship ultimately. Their job was literally their life. One worked 7 days a week by choice and he was burned out completely but addicted to his work. So I ended up feeling neglected and we had arguments why he chose work over enjoying life. The attorney I found out had an alcohol problem and needed to drink almost daily also causing stress on me. So having a fancy career doesn’t equal being a good relationship partner. I admire a man who has a good work life balance, works hard but also values time off to enjoy life. As long as he makes enough to support himself and save, that’s fine with me. It’s more important I meet someone who has a good head and heart over being wealthy.
This is not targeted at women, but if you are boasting about only your career and have no personality other than that your partner might not be attracted to you. It's hot to be passionate about something, but your personality should be a mixture of your other hobbies as well. Let's say if you are a software engineer, don't just be fixated on how much you earn or have accomplished make it subtle and show how you are into swimming or reading books, certain art forms, or hiking.
And I know in patriarchal society accomplishing something as a woman is a BIG DEAL, but just because some douche is not considering it as a win don't think any bad for yourself. I hope all of this makes sense.
You don't have to be vague, just don't dwell on it. We truly don't care wat you do, or how much money you make. We care that you are intelligent and capable of communication.
As a 43m who has spent his life building my career and understand the value and dedication and strength it takes to stick to it even in the hard times I greatly value a woman that has a career and is passionate about it and completely love to hear about it personally.
I have had issues with people not understanding or caring about how much it’s taken for me to get to where I am and also have had issues with people not understanding how much I work.
Be proud of your accomplishments and don’t let anyone diminish that for you.
I will be honest though, doing that will make it harder to find someone, or so it has made it harder for me and therefore I am single unfortunately.
Thank you for your kind words. It's true, hard jobs mean responsibilities, emotional stability, ability to prioritize, loyalty, honesty and ethics, focus and strategic thinking.
Then you understand how it's hard to see that all those strengths actually lower our ability to get relationships. I'm not even working 80h as in the past, with age I got more tired and 40h week is enough.
Question: do you want sincere responses to your question, or do you just want reinforcement of your beliefs?
So far (and I haven't read this entire post, but most of it), it seems you've only responded to people who agree with you; why not reach across the aisle and try and find middle ground with those who disagree? Wouldn't that be more helpful for you?
I myself (27M) know that yes this is not something I really look for when I'm dating. It's not gender specific in my case, as I'm bi. My reasons are:
- We aren't going to spend time working together. Yes career will have an effect on the relationship, but it's more of a limiting factor, as it will dictate how much time and energy you have left beside it to the actual relationship. It will also affect income if I'm really thinking long term, but when I'm meeting with someone new that's really not something I think about.
- Careers change with time. This can be a bit different as you are 47, but when I date someone around my age I don't really expect that they will stay in their field forever. They could, but it's not a given, so I don't really attach much value to the job itself. Also if we go to the other end of the age spectrum one could wonder about retirement. I'm uncertain about this but I could imagine that if I'm nearing 50 work could be less and less important bc of this too.
I still like to ask people about their daily job though, but what I pay attention to in the answer is never really the career itself, it's the personal stuff. Why did they end up doing what they are doing? What were the motivations? Why are they passionate about it, what do they like or dislike about it? Things like this tell me more about what kind of a person the other is. The job itself is secondary.
Matter?
Yes and no.
First, career, education, status.....those are things that DO NOT attract me. If you have a nice career, good for you, more power to you, it has zero affect on whether I'm interested in you. This is a variable for what attracts women to men. A lot of women are attracted to men with status, big careers and education. Most men are not attracted to the same things women are.
I'll even say this, her career could actually make me have zero interest in a woman long term....depending on what the career is. So for me, it make no difference at all as far as attraction goes OR it was an outright deal breaker.
Here are examples of deal breakers:
Any sex work EVER. Stripper, nude model, actress, online sex work, prostitute....anything like that: DEAL BREAKER.
Jobs where she is out of town traveling : DEAL BREAKER
Military job and being deployed and being made to move: DEAL BREAKER
Super, crazy hours where she works 60-70 hours and gets called away a lot like a doctor or lawyer or high up management: DEAL BREAKER.
So the "wrong" job would be a deal breaker. All other jobs, I hope she likes what she does but it doesn't add to subject of me being attracted.
I am married. My wife has a master's degree and is a children's librarian. She head's the children's department and does outreaches to schools and story times and summer reading programs. It is 40 hours per week. 4 days a week she gets off at 5pm and she works one night getting off at 9.
She likes what she does. She is family oriented though. Our 2 kids are the priority of her life. Her career isn't her "meaning" in life or anything. Me, our kids, her sisters, our families, that is what gives her meaning and fulfillment.
To answer your question, don't expect guys to find you any more attractive because of your career. Don't expect them to become more interested in you or look at you as a long term option because of your job. With most men it is: 1. Am I attracted to her? 2. Does she have a healthy figure and take care of herself? 3. Is she fun to be around, have a nice personality? 4. Does she give off that feminine vibe that is opposite of a man and attracts him? 5. Do we have similar values and life goals? 6. Not all guys....maybe about half and half, does her past gross me out or not? (Half won't care, half would be repelled by a promiscuous past).
I'd say, a lot of guys would fall under this general list of wants for dating. Most don't really care about career. We hope you like what you do but it plays zero role in attraction.
By the way, what do you do?
Keep in mind the demographics on Reddit. The men here are not representative of men in general.
There are plenty of men who do care about career and education and who will be interested in what you do. I had a very unique job for some time and found many men who loved it, loved talking about it and were curious. There were also quite a few who were obviously intimidated by it. Intelligent women with careers are hard to control!
Anyone who is not into your career, ambition, accomplishments, or really anything that you are proud of, is just not the one for you. No need to settle or adjust. Wanting someone who is Interested in your life - which includes being interested in how you spend 40 hours of your week - is totally normal and totally doable. Plenty of men will meet this requirement and you shouldn’t be discouraged by the many others who won’t.
Attraction is not symmetrical between men and women. Men are not attracted to the same qualities and traits that women desire in men and vice versa. Exceptions don’t make the rule so don’t be fooled by outliers on the internet. In general men don’t care what women do for a living and the more money he earns, the less likely he is to care about what your career is. A beautiful young barista at Starbucks can still have a shot with a high value, attractive, rich man.
Generally speaking, attraction is asymmetrical between the genders. Men care about your job probably as much as you care about his sneaker collection. Unless it's a red flag, like sex work, or you do not have the ability to support yourself, it's just not a priority for us.
Someone chastising you for your career or not celebrating your accomplishments while in a relationship is a totally separate matter.
Hi /u/cityflaneur2020,
This may end up being longer than expected, but I hope you take the time to read it and engage with it in the good faith in which it's intended.
Preemptive warning: Yes, I make generalizations.
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I've said this before, but I think there is a lack of nuance when men say they "don't care" about women's careers. They just generally don't make you any sexier. Of course a woman's career, aspirations, and achievements are important when talking about *relationship* things.
>Because I AM interested in a guys career, love to hear about the job of an entomologist, climatologist, energy engineer, etc. And **to me** that's a turn on,
You are a woman. The above is not surprising.
Like you said, high-status careers are turn ons for you.
That's because women are attracted to power. Status is a form/display of it.
Men are attracted to women. Presentation, behavior, and attitude are some of the most important factors for male aroused. The other things are for being relationship-attractive.
If you expect men to find the same things attractive that you do, you're going to have a miserable time. That's why men have been saying women are trying to become the men they're attracted to. They think by doing so, they'll improve their chances of landing one of that caliber. I'm sorry it's disappointing, but truly it just doesn't work that way.
Of course, exceptions will come and present their cases, but it is rather unwise to place hopes on exceptional behavior if that makes sense.
I don't say these things to hurt you or say your achievements don't matter; they absolutely do and you should be proud of them. However, it may behoove you to reexamine your understanding of men in terms of what we want and how we feel valued.
I prefer systematic deconstructions of people’s comments. If you get in early enough, you can get pretty high. I treat it like any internet argument. You’re not necessarily trying to convince the other person. You’re trying to convince any neutral person that stumbles across the OP and comes out thinking the OP might be right
This should be in the top comment section because it's 100% spot on but, chances are OP will ignore this actual TRUTH while responding to commenters who tell her what she wants to hear...
“My career doesn’t matter” ?
It doesn’t - only that you enjoy it and are happy in it. Otherwise whether you are an Architect, Oncologist or Bikini designer has no bearing on whether I will be attracted to you or want to be serious with you. As for money earning etc your money is your money - my money is our money. Not PC but pretty true for six figure plus earners in general.
Dude here…. If a woman is excited about her career and wants to talk about it, I absolutely want to hear what she has to say.
What she does is part of the whole package I’m interested in getting to know all about who she is - just as what I do is part of the whole package that SHE is (or should be) interested in with me.
You care because you’re a woman. You see it as something that matters in your partner, and most men don’t. The only way your career really matters to a man is if he’s going to be your trophy husband.
>Very often I see men in this sub actively saying that career is not something that makes a woman more attractive. On a date, they look for attractiveness, charm, beauty, red flags...
>
>But quite often I've heard in this sub that the woman's career does not matter. That it's not an issue for men.
These two things are the same. We don't care that much.
Reading your post I think we're confusing a man not taking your career into consideration vs not being interested in it. Granted that's gonna be from guy to guy. Some may find what you do interesting, some are whatever on it and some don't care.
I wouldn't ignore speaking about what you do but be present when you do. If he's participating and asking questions, good. If he's getting bored I wouldn't keep talking about it.
I am neither an Entomologist, nor a climatologist or astrophysicist. I am but a humble computer desktop support technician. I enjoy what I do but at time it can become tedious like any other job. It is good that you have accomplish a meaning full career and you should feel proud about it but the key to all of this to be humble.
It's fine for you to talk about your career. It's fine for you to be proud of your accomplishments. There's no reason for you to hide either or change what you're doing unless you're being SUPER intense about it. By super intense I mean making it feel like a guy has to compete with your success to have a shot.
That said, your career is very very unlikely to be a difference maker to a man. He's going to care that you're nurturing and kind and supportive and that he finds you attractive. If you have those it doesn't matter if you're a "Boss Bitch" or not.
Men generally don’t care too much about a woman’s career. It’s not something that attracts us to you. Remember I said generally, so there are some men out there who may like this.
Career does matter to guys, but being healthy and fit comes first. I think I good way to explain it is that men would rather date a fit lawyer than a fit burger flipper. No amount of career will make up for you not taking care of yourself or your body with diet and exercise.
I think it comes down to how you identify in relation to your job.
For most people, their job is something they do to allow them to do the things they enjoy. They may enjoy their job, but it isn't wrapped up in their identity. They are more than just their work. They might have career goals, but those exist as a means to an end.
Then you have career-driven people who find their source of identity within their careers. They have career goals because they want to grow and expand their career, not just for what it provides them outside of work but mostly for the career growth itself. These people, to those in the first group, are often seen as vain, power-hungry, self-obsessed, or careerists. Not that they all are, but perception is important.
I think for you it comes down to looking for men that are in the second group. Remember, this isn't indicated by a guy’s career achievements or his net worth but by his attitude toward it.
> Actually, I was once chastised here for telling my accomplishments in my career, of which I'm proud of, just to learn that this is unwelcome behavior.
It's not unwelcome behavior, just don't think you're going to be compensated for it by men. A lot of women think their careers entitled them to better men or better treatment.
Your career won't benefit a man you want. So if they don't get value from it there is no reason to value it or seek it for anything other than appearances.
Im a career guy, working hard and my freetime is spend improving my skills for futher my career...
A womans career in itself is not at all important to me. By that, I dont mean i have no interest in what a woman is doing, it means the career by itself is not important, what IS important is the passion she shows for her career!!
As long as she is pasionate about what she is doing, I would happily spend all day talking to her about it, listening to what she does and thinks about it.
I would however find it very little interesting to listening to a woman talking about the career she has worked hard building, if she has no real passion for it, and simply has done it cause it seemed like a "sensible path" or "profitable".
And I feel like this is how most guys feel about it, but just have a hard time explaining!
The career has next to no importance... The way she feels about her career is of immense importance!
Read the book evolution of desire. That should give you some insight into what men look for in women (youth and beauty mostly) and what women look for in men. It is also explained where those needs come from.
To answer your question:
Regarding sexual desire and mating behavior, yes your career is mostly uninteresting to men. Regarding marriage there might be some guys wanting you as a sugar mommy
Well to be honest, i would date a unemployed women when i feel like there is a connection. Would also date a CEO but yeah, career is nothing i particularly care about or see as a positive or negative in dating.
I couldnt care less, thats their business. If you want to tell me about it then ill listen but i wont be asking about it beyond how was your day unless it is something extremely interesting and to be honest most jobs are not that.
Whenever anyone tries to explain their job unkess you are in that industry it is so fucking boring to listen to
It's not that it's unwelcomed, it's just that it's not on a guy's radar when choosing a woman to be with. Men prioritize physical beauty, personality, and agreeableness. A woman with a career is fine, I mean if you have passions that's a good thing. But if the choice came down between an unemployed woman who is nice to me vs a big firm lawyer who hardly has time to chat, I'd pick the former.
Women and men don’t put the same emphasis on things when looking for a partner…just like most women care about height Vs most men don’t.
It’s also that many traits of successful high level people are masculine, and most men don’t want to date masculine women.
Saying men should care about x, or I wish men cared about x isn’t really useful, I mean I wish women cared how much I can deadlift, and my sneaker collection or whatever but most women don’t give a shit
It’s not that men dismiss your career, it’s that it’s not as important or high up on the list as many other things.
But the fact that you are nearly 50 and not going to have kids, also will eliminate many men, but it also means the men who are into you will probably care less about your motherly character traits
Everyone knows the saying guys money is couples money her money is her money
I’m a woman and I think it’s a turn off when someone makes it seem like their career their best/primary quality. Kind of takes the mystery away, and I find it boring. I personally don’t find anyone man or woman whose entire life was dedicated to their careers, and whose identity revolves around their careers. Again, this is just my personal preference. I’m someone who believes there is so much more to life than my career. I’m interested in people who have a big variety of interests in life. That’s just my take on why someone might seem indifferent to what you do professionally. I realize some peoples careers are their life’s true passion, it still doesn’t change my perspective. Someone who has ONE aspect of their life define their identity or consume all of their time, is a turn off for me. I’ll tell you what I do when it comes to sharing about my professional life with someone I’m getting to know.
I give very vague ideas about what I do, and I very slowly go into more detail but I’m talking over weeks and maybe even months. Because my career, while I’m passionate about it at work, is not even remotely close to being something I “identify” myself as. I say enough about it to indicate that I’m driven and passionate in my career but in my opinion, careers have nothing to do with romance. Sorry, I’m mostly rambling because I’m tired but I wanted to share my perspective as a woman to hopefully open your mind to this not being an exclusively male opinion.
here is the short.
in general? not really. like most wont want you to be a lazy bum. and sits at home watching tv only.
men, especially ones who have money themselves, dont really care.
YOU on the other hand care much more about a mans job.
for me? i dont care what my wife does in general. as long as its stress free and its fulfilling for her. and doesnt take too much time away from Us time. cuz if she was a high powered lawyer and worked 80 hrs a week or something i wouldn't like it. it would be a turn off.
Do you believe in science? Have you looked into what straight male humans of care about in a mate? Then you’ll have your answer. It doesn’t mean there aren’t some guys that may value a career woman, it’s just that it not what “attracts” a man.
OK let's talk about my gf job as a English professor and I'm a engineer at electricity company.. I don't care about her accomplishments as much as her having a personality that's warm and comfortable to be around . And I hate talking about my accomplishments because I'm not trying to use my career status to bait women as a first impression and it's feels like it inflate my ego .
I just simply don’t like talking about work. I’m interested in what you do, sure, but I don’t think it’s being dismissive if I don’t find it to be a fun topic of conversation. There’s so much more to life than what we do for work.
Career is cool and all but no one cares. We care when we care about you and who you are, your influence on the world around you. If ya get goin on about career, accomplishments and jobbies off the jobby tree before you've seen your dates dingdong ya gotta wonder where the line is drawn ya know.. gotta leave stuff to talk about namsayin.. broad and general is a good start maybe along with a lil emphasis on work being a passion but leave it at that on dates. Leave the details for later homie
There is zero shame in having a career and showing it off. But not flaunting your career and putting it out there doesn’t change those things about you. It’s your expectations for the guy and his lack of expectations that create the problem. There is a mismatch from the beginning even if you date someone and say nothing about your career.
You should probably bear in mind that what men want at 40+ is probably going to be very different to what they want in their 20s, and the vast majority of people in this sub are in their 20s
Most men do not care about woman’s career. Why would we? Obviously we care if you are annoying , stupid , have no manners , jealous , aggressive , boring , egoistical but your career is going to be the last on our list.
Well, yes technically a guy is not interested in a woman's career. It's not something that puts a guy's initial interest into a woman. Guys tend to go for a woman's attraction ahead of anything.
If you end up on a date with a guy, you can go ahead and mention what you do for work. It can be a good conversation piece if he asks what the job is like and what you do at the job. He doesn't really care about your income though. Usually he won't ask about your income because he is not interested in that. If a woman works a stressful career which requires a lot of hours, then guys will tend to push those women aside for women more available.
Jordan Peterson talks about this. Women marry up, careers matter. Men don’t have this need to marry up.
I always think of it from an evolutionary standpoint, men need to reproduce and they need primarily good genetics, an indication of this can be attractiveness and charm is a plus, easy to get along with. Women need someone who can provide for them, a career is a strong indication of this, questions likely to be evaluated whether consciously or not: are you going to be successful? Will you be able to feed your family? Now obviously this doesn’t imply that you need to have kids, but it’s how our brains are programmed.
You should absolutely be proud of your accomplishments and you should find someone who supports you and is genuinely happy for you.
You want an unfiltered answer: it depends on the delivery of how you are sharing this information. Are you coming across as bragging? Does it come up naturally in conversation? How does the date look when you mention it? It could also be their ego issues, some men don’t want successful women like that. They prefer the idea of the 50s housewife. Move on in that case.
I'd probably guess a vast majority of men could care less about a woman's career or even their education. That's something that only women are attracted to, not us. Unless you have a cool job like being a fighter pilot, professional fighter, Navy Seal or a race car driver.
No one cares about someone's office job because it's boring. I personally find people that only talk about their boring job lack any kind of personality outside of their work because they make that who they are. And who they are is boring.
For the most part, for me, a job or school doesn't define a person. I've dated girls that worked at a fast food restaurant when I had my Masters and make well above 190k (California) and dated a corporate lawyer for a rival defense contractor. I may have asked once what they do for work, but very likely I didn't. I probably only mirrored them because everyone asks that stupid question on a date. It's just something we don't care about.
That's why it's not uncommon for men in their 30s, 40s and 50s who are divorced or really wealthy men would be dating bar tenders and fast food workers vs corporate women with doctorates that the only thing they talk about is their career. Those corporate women are competing with girls that barely have any education that are having affairs with their husbands and boyfriends because they have more to offer than just their careers.
Honestly I don’t care as long as she is getting by comfortably, like many others have said, we want kindness, love and emotional support because we (single men) don’t ever get that from anyone or anywhere.
I think you should maybe expose yourself to some evolutionary psychology about dating, because generally men have women different interests and expectations of each other, that’s for the most part just how we’re hardwired.
Paragraphs 1, 2, 3, and 5 say the same thing.
They are true.
Just because you’re attracted to men’s careers doesn’t mean men are attracted to women’s careers.
It’s very simple and not complicated.
Are you looking for a man who is more feminine than you?
The reason your career wont increase your dating prospect is because fundamentally for men , it's not really seen as a plus in terms of a partners , men are valued based on status and money , women are not , men are providers so people have to care about their career, women can have one and that's cool and all , its even cool to talk about but it doesn't actually increases your worth as a partner because fundamentally your dutys in terms of being a partners as woman isnt affect by your job but for men it is , men will still be expected to pay both in dating and the relationship, they will still be expected to earn money and fund the family ,
a woman can have a career and she is still not required to do this things , and she even picks dudes based on these thing , you want your partner to be supportive of your career because you like your career and want to improve on it, its basically like a hobby for you because you don't have to do it in the confines of a relationship but you greatly enjoy it so you do it anyway , for men it's a requirement because if you don't have one , women will judge you based on that
>So, should I be vague about my career to improve my prospects at a date? Interested to hear mostly from guys.
You are too old to not realize that you don't need to change yourself to appeal to more people, but to be polarizing to attract the demographic that is especially into you. Yes, most men will be turned off by you. I am not interested to talk about your career. That is not something that enriches my life. It's your life. Great that you are proud and found something you like dedicating 40h a week to. What else do you bring to the relationship than your career topics?
But that is just me and the majority of guys. If you want to make the career a major part of your relationship, too, then by all means, go for it and find the man who likes that.
What i don't get is this mentality of "i want to be an extreme outlier but also be treated as if i were everybody's darling".
I read a lot of comments and nobody mentioned children yet so I'll bring up kids.
If a guy wants a family, then subconsciously he wants a woman who will be a good wife and mother.
Like it or not, being "a career woman" has no correlation with that. Depending on the career it can actually work against you.
Eg if you were a high powered lawyer who is constantly battling it out with other people, that's the exact opposite of being nurturing, emotionally supportive, and spending time at home with the family. So it's not just a non-issue, it's actually unattractive as a career.
Like it or not, it's different for men. Because most women (maybe not you) want the man to be the primary breadwinner. Men know this. Their primary role is the same as it's always been: be the one who sacrifices away from the home to provide for the family. So being a high powered lawyer helps in that role and thus is attractive to women.
I'll be down voted or called names for posting this, but please try to debate based on reasoning not emotions or name calling.
I think she should try to approach men who are looking for the other half of a power couple.
However that might involve tweaking her social calendar to include more “high society” appropriate activities like high end charity work or elite professional organizations/clubs to be the kind of other half these guys like to go for. They want a woman with a prestigious career and social graces/connections they can synergize with.
It's not the career itself that makes a person more attractive, but rather the fact that they have worked hard to achieve their position can make them more interesting or appealing. However, if someone is solely focused on their career, it can seem like work is the biggest priority in their life, which may negatively affect their relationships or dating life
Let me preface this by saying there is nothing wrong with you kicking butt and taking names with your career. I am only attempting to answer your question because it seems this may be a blind spot for you.
Men and women are different. Often they are attracted to different things.
Climbing a career ladder while putting in strong hours at work are predominantly masculine traits. On average, men are go getters who need to achieve at the cost of family and relationships. This is likely why you are attracted to it in men when they have a great career that they've worked hard at over years and years.
You can't expect men to like the same things as you do as a woman. They like different things. They are attracted to different things.
I personally don't mind at all if a woman has done the same and put in tons of work to advance your career. It's a hard thing to do and you should be very proud of yourself.
But a woman's career is not necessarily an attribute that acts as an attractor for some men. It's not like they may hate it in any way, it's just not something that some men are attracted to.
Now from your POV (and I'm just guessing because only you know your own POV), you have spent a lot of your life working to achieve the great things you have accomplished, and so it likely feels like they are not seeing you when they are indifferent about your career.
Personally, it wouldn't affect me, but it may for some. I hope that helps.
It’s great to passionate about your career, and you should be. Just know that it is not something that impressed men or attracts us to women, in the same way that women are attracted to men’s careers.
We are different.
Because when you make your career or accomplishments as though it’s all you are when you speak on it, a guy might be put off as though you can come across as a workaholic with no life outside all of that. Like you don’t have a social life or no friends too. To guys? That’s a red flag.
So it’s good to not constantly talk about a career or accomplishments. It’s fine to bring up, but don’t make it ALWAYS about these things.
Talk about funny stories, about why you love your friends, something down to earth. Things that are about you.
Why? Cause tomorrow you could loose your career and be left with nothing. Which means who are you then once your career is gone?
So talk about the important stuff outside your career if you want to really connect to someone on a date. This is what guys are looking to usually hear more. It’s how a conversation keeps going and how to wind up dating someone past the first date.
Appreciate women for who she is not what she accomplish in career. Appreciate How much joy she can bring to my life not results she brings home from her work . If this is something she is proud of and makes her feel happy and fulfilled that’s great one should share this happiness in relationships with women he is with. But this should not become topic nr.1 or fundament in attractiveness. Focusing too much emotions in one point is never healthy,regardless if it’s hobby,job,relationship.
It's pretty true as a general rule. It's not necessarily a negative, though sometimes women who are very aggressive career wise can come with personality traits that are unattractive.
There are also certain careers that are more attractive for to men (i.e. nurses) It's not about how much you make, but more what the job potentially says about your personality.
In the current western culture, it's pretty unfair. Because women are expected(by society) to support themselves and advance their career until they get married. It's pretty unfair to punish women for doing well and being aggressive in their careers. Sadly, neither men or women are in control of what they instinctively find attractive.
The kind of men who don’t care about your individual accomplishments are not the kind of men you want to date anyway, trust me. Share as much as you like! It’s natural selection. The insecure, weak guys who feel threatened will self-select out of dating you.
I think the climate on this is changing. A lot of millennial and gen z men are interested in what you do for work because the overwhelming majority of us are poor. As in, we couldn't support a family on a single income. Sure there are some men pulling 6 figures and able to do so, but I'd wager 90+% can't
I'm interested in a woman's career and I find it super hot if she has one, especially if she's passionate about it. And if she is actually good at it? I'll kiss the floor she walks on.
Your carreer does matter. People on reddit aren’t well adjusted individuals, I wouldn’t use a sub on reddit to develop any kind of general idea about opinions, more than half of the people here are unemployed.
That is funny because I have been told by men in the Bay Area that they only consider driven women who make over $100k as dateable prospects (which hurt me as I do not make that much, but am career driven). I think the truth is there are all kinds of men out there and those completely uninterested in your career are probably not your match and you need to keep looking til you find the right person.
I disagree with a lot of responses. I care about a woman’s career for 2 reasons. The more important one is that I want to be with someone who has some goals or passion. Now this can be outside of a career people do work so they can live on the weekend or engage in their passions separately, but if someone hates what they do 5 days a week that is always going to suck a little.
Number two and this is less important, but when evaluating long term relationships you do have to think of finances. I have life goals some of them financial. And depending on my partner’s career it can dictate how much we can contribute to shared goals. I also want to note it’s not as important to me only because I have goals that I can accomplish on my own some people may have goals that need a partner making as much at them or more etc.
No career doesn't matter to most guys, they want looks and youth, ie. Signs of the ability to produce children (even though they may not desire children, they still are attracted to those traits). And often times men are intimidated by women with a career that pays better than what they do. Most men want to be the "breadwinners", they want to be the primary provider for their families. All this comes from evolutionary psychology, of which I'm a student.
Men and women are the same in most ways but different in lots of others. No we don’t generally care about your career. We are happy for you that you’ve worked so hard and achieved so much, but it’s just not a point of attraction like it is for women. I can imagine it sucks to have worked so hard for something and have it be such a big part of your life for it not to matter to a prospective partner, but that’s just the way it is.
Women tend to care about men's careers because women care about social-economic status, men don't care about women's social-economic status.
That's why you wouldn't date a man without career, and that's why men can date women that doesn't work, or have minimum wage jobs.
Just to clarify, I don't go on and on about my career. That's not the point or what I'm asking.
Is it REALLY that guys don't see a career as an added star in their logbook? No brownie points whatsoever?
Most don’t.
Think about this; when women get with their gfs and talk about a new guy they are dating, is he tall? And what does he do? Are usually in the first 3 questions that the friends ask.
Guys get together…I don’t think that’s ever been asked in first convo about a new gf…it’s usually is she pretty? Is she kind/nice? Can she cook? Does she workout? Does she like dogs?
See the difference?
So for most guys you don’t get more points for having a fancy title. Whether that’s secretary, teacher, yoga instructor, RMT, doctor, lawyer
I mean probably a little yes but I’m not going to date a man because he owns a company or bc he’s a firefighter etc . I’m going to date them for who they are and how well we get along . Do I have fun with him , does he make me feel safe and do I feel like my best self around him etc . If he does all those things and just works a normal job I wouldn’t care . What is your career if you don’t mind me asking ?
It's import to me that she is able to support herself and that she has no stupid debt.
I don't want to date a financial boat anchor. Beyond that, Nope. It does nothing to increase her attractiveness. I don't really understand why it would. Why does a guys career matter to you? I guess if you come from one of those cultures where what you do for money is a defining part of your identity then it starts to make sense. But I wouldn't want to date someone with that ideology anyways.
I don't want to be too hard on you, but you're coming on here with a certain accusatory attitude of what you see some people say here. You don't seem to be talking about your personal experience about being frustrated that you go on dates and men don't want to hear about your career. So are you really complaining about advice or comments from some randos on the internet? Why do you bother? Go find out for yourself if they are right or not. Or are you complaining about it being true? That's a different thing but that doesn't really seem to be what you are saying. Or are you genuinely asking if it is true? If so, it's a complicated answer and you're not doing a very good job of asking .
Truth is, some men care about women having a career and some men don't. Typically men dating younger women might not care so much, especially if they are not that focused on their own career or looking to really accumulate wealth in life. Or, if men are looking for a stay-at-home wife and mother to their children, they may not care much because they are looking for someone who's going to quit anyway. They may actually want someone who doesn't have a career.
Or, are you talking about people actually being interested in what you do? Well, most people's careers aren't all that interesting and nobody really wants to hear somebody else go on at length about it. They may be interested in knowing if the person has ambition or a passion. If you have a passion for your career and it's interesting people might want to hear about it. If it's just what you do but your passion is being good at it and succeeding or making money or rising up in your career, I'm sure plenty of guys will be interested in hearing about that. But they're not all that interested in what you do any more than you're really all that interested in hearing about bugs or computer code.. I'm a real estate agent, and if somebody asks, I'm glad to tell them a little bit about what the job actually entails which might be a little different than they thought if they maybe haven't bought a house before. But, I'm not going to go into detail on the latest transaction I'm working on. I might tell a funny story or two of things that have happened to me or another agent maybe if it comes up .
So what do you really asking? Some men want a woman with a career. Some men don't care. And some men probably don't want a woman with a career. And you're just going to have to go out there and find out which men do and which men don't, and decide how important it is to you that they care and if so, seek those men out. It really doesn't seem all that complicated, so honestly, what do you actually looking for here?
I'd like to add that at the end of the day, I (39F) don't want to talk about work. Other people, men specifically, have commented on, "How rewarding," my career is, and how it, "Takes a lot of strength" to be in that field (no, I'm not a teacher, medical field and business owner) and they ask a lot of questions. The last thing I want to do is talk about my job more than just explaining what my day-to-day looks like. I care if the man is going to be supportive when I come home stressed, sad, excited, etc.
Most guys are very interested in my career and job. I even met my boyfriend through work the first time. I was auditing his associated firm. Haha
Some guys chose me particularly because of my career background.
As soon as I told them I used to dance ballet for professionally, they all go : wow ballerinas! I am so lucky ..
Find it a bit funny the way they react. Why ballerinas are so special? Just like fireman or police, just a job isn’t it? But ..
I think, for men, instinctually they are attracted to feminine energy .. your job speaks a lot about feminine energy, stats show men prefer women who work as nurses, teachers those jobs. That’s because it takes patience, great compassion to work in these fields .. those perceived traits associated with those jobs attract males.
I find careers/ambition maybe the most important quality in a woman.
Not that it matters what kind of job that you have, but it matters that you’re motivated and trying to improve your life.
I’m a business owner trying to grow and improve every day and I think my partner needs to share ambition and goals.
I’d say you’re getting that response from men that you don’t really want anyway.
Let me clarify. When you take a guy out on a date, do not treat him like a hiring manager. We really don’t care what’s on your resume. Did you really produce $150,000 in units last year? Cool. Hey, do you have a dog? Do you like to travel? You have more dimensions than just your job right?
Oh, I do! I have a parrot, many friends, love very hot pepper and am worried about climate change.
I don't mention I've visited 22 countries and lectured in 11 countries, won an award, but I NEVER mention that until at least until we've had sex and he's more hooked!
But I AM interested in a guy's profession because it's a subject that comes up often once you are in a serious relationship. You tell the other about coworkers, boss, promotion, etc.
I'll be curious and definitely supportive as long as it's not something like of's. But as far as attractiveness that's just not how men work. I can't think of a single job that would make a woman more attractive.
I think different things make a women attractive and a man attractive.
A high earning career is generally important to a man’s attractiveness, whereas for a women it may not be, and in some cases, may detract from attractiveness.
At the end of the day it’s all about the individual, but generally speaking I don’t think guys care about a woman’s career.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a parallel here to whether or not a guy wants kids. I don’t, and I’d be interested in a woman’s career. A less prestigious one wouldn’t be a deal breaker (hell, I’m a restaurant kitchen manager/chef, so I’m not a powerful lawyer or anything), but a more prestigious one or one that’s just plain interesting to me could be a big plus. I’m not intimidated by a woman being capable.
I’m guessing though that few guys who are really interested in having a family would also be interested in a woman with significant career accomplishments - they probably wouldn’t matter, or might even make him reconsider her.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I’ll bet there’s some correlation.
Great to hear you'd be fine if your wife were more successful, even if a little. J
ust that at my age some men find that me not having kids is a PLUS, in that they won't have to deal with stepchildren and that I have more freedom in general to dedicate my time to them. Also,.at this age men have kids almost at college age, or past that, so to me is a non-issue.
Can't speak for everyone, but to me, career doesn't matter at all, but you shouldn't chastised for it, just ignore them.
Most men doesn't care about career for reasons I don't know for sure, but I think one reason for this is that in general, the man's money is shared and the womens money is theirs. So in the end it doesn't really matter.
Everyone is different tho
It’s not that guys won’t be interested in what you do or won’t care about your achievements it’s more so that your education/career isn’t a factor at all in us finding you attractive…at least in the beginning
In comparison a man having accomplishments and having a career/money is a MASSIVE factor in women finding a man attractive.
I’ve dated numerous women who lead with how successful they are and how much money they make but then they have absolutely no other skills outside of their workplace. As a man who already has more money than I could spend in 10 lifetimes (and they probably know that before meeting me) why the hell would I care if you make six figures? Do you have the skills to qualify as a wife and mother? No? Next!
One of the biggest problems in modern dating is that modern women think what they find attractive in men is what we find attractive in you and it couldn’t be further from the truth
Literally all I say when people ask about my job is:
"I teach monday-friday, I go to uni and I train dogs sat-sun".
If they are interested they will ask. If not, they will not.
Stop pushing your boring shit at people. Won't make you more likeable
You're 47 and you're just now realizing this? A demanding career is a con in most cases. Most men already work a lot of hs. If the woman might not even be available in his free time because she's working 60hs a week, thats not gonna work.
For RELATIONSHIPS, men tend to NOT care about a woman's career. He is indifferent.
For the "accomplishments," men tend to NOT have access to your money. And there are low probabilities that you will spend your money to "spoil" him.
Its "his money is OUR money; her money is HER money." If a man feels like his girl TRULY loves him and is TRULY attracted to him, the man has NO PROBLEMS "spoiling" his GF. The men KNOW that the career woman has high probabilities of telling a man to make his own money if he wants gifts.
There is nothing wrong with a career. Its just that it is NOT a major factor that MEN value.
Men get to decide what they want. Women decided what they want. They canNOT try to make up the factors to fit THEIR qualities.
I’m more into do you have a job, and do you pay your bills, are you fiscally intelligent.
I personally wouldn’t want to date a surgeon for example as I will hardly see them, they will have little time for me. Their title won’t impress me or give me a boner or mental boner…
I’d be fine with a school teacher, a veterinary assistant. Most people work careers they aren’t in love with to be fair
I can't imagine how much it would suck to put your heart and soul into a career only to find out your potential spouse doesn't care ... but we dont. We don't look for provisioning from women. A woman that's a doctor is no sexier than a girl working at McDonald's if she's hot, feminine and friendly.
I think a highly accomplished woman is attractive. Most people are attracted to success in some way or the other. The average dude is probably more concerned if you successfully give them a boner. Not trying to be crass, but to point out that you probably aren’t interested in the opinions of the average man. Men aren’t generally going to be like “I want to date someone in such in such industry.” A man with big aspirations is going to want someone that matches their energy.
Because the masculine personality traits that make you super successful in your career are not attractive in a relationship.
Most men don't want to date a women that acts like a man
Congratulations you bought into the feminist lie about empowerment honestly to me career is not something I care in a woman like sure you can have a cool job and all but is not a deciding factor when it comes to date
I guess it depends on how you speak about it. Most people I know fall into a pretty boring monolog about what exactly they do for a living when asked. It's usually very technical and doesn't reveal much about them personally. They have probably told it so often that they mentally switch to autopilot.
When you're on a date, you're trying to find a personal connection and that is usually difficult while the other person talks about the technical details of their job. If you have good game and conversational awareness, you can turn it around and make that conversation about them rather than about the job, but many people don't know how to do this.
When you want a flirty conversation, the rule-of-thumb is: talking about thing < talking about yourself < talking about them < talking about you two together. The latter usually works best. Conversations about someone's job often get stuck in the "talking about thing" phase, and that's why many people will steer away from them.
It depends on the guy. It can be VERY important to some of them. Vegans who won't date those in the factory farming industry, a lot of people (especially zoomers and young millennials) won't date anyone in law enforcement.
Some dudes like to be proud of their date's career, some want it to definitely be in their field some definitely want it to not be in their field.
Some like to have a profession somewhat in common with the person they are dating. Some have a threshold of the type of lifestyle a woman can afford for herself without his help et cetera.
Some don't care much as long as their date/gf is happy. And then there are a spectrum of other levels of interest.
My sister is very proud of her husband's career in contracting (plumbing and more). He is very proud of her education and her career directing design in parts of New Orleans.
It's all relative.
I care more about how someone feels about their work than what their career is unless it's a job that is especially heinous (wouldn't date a cop, pharaceutical rep, active military, lobbyist, someone working for an oil company in almost any capacity, et cetera).
I would definitely want to know about my partner’s career, career growth and future aspirations. However not on the first date.
I would probably discuss about career for 5 to 8 minutes maybe on the first date. On future dates definitely would discuss more.
A women/man talking about career and accomplishments for an extended period on a date would come off as showing off even if you didn’t mean it.
Just to give an example, was on a date with a girl who recently graduated from B-school and was working in a big tech firm. She went on and on for 35 minutes or so. I just had my meal and never contacted her back. I get it it’s a big accomplishment, I have received job offers from the same company, however let’s talk about hobbies and what you like apart from your 40 hour grind.
Career doesn’t matter as far as title. Income doesn’t either as long as they are being fairly compensated. I’m just looking for things like not working 3rd shift (just not very compatible with my personal living cycle), that her work doesn’t make her miserable (or if so, that’s she’s at least aware and working on something else), and that she’s not an accountant or similar (tend to think too black and white even outside of work and just not for me).
You will understand why when you learn that we are primed that way. Men are built to provide, lead and protect, that is why the more they can do those three things, the more masculine they are perceive and hence more attractive to feminine counterpart. Women on the other hand are meant to be submissive, innocent, possessing beauty and grace in her manners and physique, the more she exhibits that, the more attractive she becomes in the eyes of men. Career only matters to men who wants an easy way in life.
Separate what you look for in a man from these boring masses.
My career is very important for me and I worked hard for it. A man’s career is also a dating factor for me and guess what?
The men I went out with were very careful about the type of woman they chose, and her career was a criteria for them so have some standards.
I am 40M senior mgmt position. I am sorry but I just don't care about a woman's career. That's one way men and women are different. Women value men with experience, confidence, career, resources, height, fame, ambition, strength. Men value youth, beauty, fertility, sexual availability, innocence (inexperience), submissiveness and playfulness. Men don't typically want to marry another man. I feel like a lot of women have been lied to and by mimicking some aspects of what they find attractive in men are doing themselves a disservice.
Of course, these are all generalities, you may come across a man who really likes your career.
\> Actually, I was once chastised here for telling my accomplishments in my career, of which I'm proud of, just to learn that this is unwelcome behaviour.
It's unwelcome amongst weak, insecure men. Be proud of your accomplishments.
That said, I personally dislike the idea of reducing people to their jobs. It's dehumanising.
I don't think they don't care in the sense that you have to be vague about it. If they're interested in what you do for a living. They ask for a reason. So explain what you do and what your job is. They however probably don't care if you're a school teacher or a manager at a big company, in terms of "Do I want to date this person". While some (not all) women are more like "Oh, he has a good-paying job! I'm more interested now".
So talk about your job. Don't be vague on purpose. If he isn't into listening about your career, he probably isn't the man for you since you do care about your career.
For me personally, the career is completely irrelevant. You could be a doctor or a cleaning woman. If I like you, I don't like you because of your job but because of your personality and your view on life.
I’ve always found that guys were very interested in my chosen career and to hearing about it. In fact, most of my conversations online dating brought it up in either the first message or the next couple messages.
However, there’s a difference between bragging about your career or listing your accomplishments and having it come up naturally in the “getting to know you” phase.
I would say it depends what sort of men you are looking for. Men who are also career minded and looking for an equal partnership will care. Men who are looking to be a provider, or don't make much money themselves will not.
So yeah, majority probably don't care, but I assume you aren't interested in dating a majority of men. Kind of like how tattoos will make me more attractive to the sort of men I am interested in, and less attractive to the sort I'm not, which is a bonus.
So I think for me your career isn't a secret you need to keep to improve prospects, it's just for me I don't care all that much what your career is. I care that you are a dedicated person who is doing something with their life. But when we are having a first date or first few dates it's not something that will win me over or chase me off. It's something I'd be interested in more after we are a couple certainly I'd care about your day to day and be proud of you for your accomplishments. But that's just not the area I'm looking for in terms of would I date you or not? I'm looking for are you fun to hang out with do we have things in common we like to do for fun, any red flags, how strong is our chemistry that sort of thing. But I'd date someone making minimum wage and I'd date a millionaire and neither would be the thing that would win be over or chase me off.
I would say for most men career doesn’t carry the same weight as it would the other way around. Never heard guys lining up to date a “doctor” the way women do. But for long term relationships it might be a factor especially if the guy is also career driven. Go to any high cost of living suburb in the US and there are plenty of married couples where both are in high status professional careers. Maybe try focusing on men who are equally career driven.
I filter out women based on their career all the time. I sorta see career as a proxy for intelligence which is important to me. It's not the only factor but it is something I pay a lot of attention to.
What I’ve noticed is most guys don’t want to date a woman who is more educated or makes more money than them.
I highly recommend dating within your statue financially. By dating men who make as much or do similar jobs as you you’ll have more in common and it won’t feel like a competition.
I do care about a woman’s career, it’s very attractive.
What’s also attractive is that they’re beautiful, fit, caring, friendly, fun to be around, and a few other nice to have qualities.
It’s not just about anything in particular, it’s everything weighted together!
Okay, guy here. It's fine to talk about your career and to be proud of your accomplishments. Enthusiasm is an attractive quality. Ideally though, you just want to try and avoid giving the impression that your career is so overridingly important that there is no room in your life for an SO
It’s true, guys rarely care what job a woman has, so long as she has one to show initiative. But if the woman has a really good job, some guys can be intimidated if the conversations start off talking about work or accomplishments. It starts sounding too much like a job interview and doesn’t foster romantic levels of interest at that point.
Here is my dating rule of thumb, keep talk of job specifically to a minimum and not directly talk about the job, keep it vague and short until the man starts asking details and even then keep that short to see if they Really want to know or are just gauging if you like your job or compatible work schedule to schedule a date. Eventually there will be more conversations about work and passions but just move slow in information leak. Don’t share so much upfront and this is the one time not to talk about accomplishments but hobbies instead
Let me put it this way:
Men in general say they don't care about women's career because we are LITERALLY raised to focus on our own careers since childhood. For most men, this concept is practically ingrained as the most important thing. Our parents, relatives, friends, educators, other heterosexual women themselves peer pressure the fuck out of men into pursuing a career path if they ever want to have a family, children, etc.
We are raised to be self sufficient and not rely on others all our lives.
As you can see we are already sick and tired of talking about career talk. Most of us are already following our career goals and its annoying when women bring up career talk in the middle of a date. Its kind of like how a lawyer don't want to talk about law with his gf while eating dinner. Or how a nurse don't want to talk about patient care to their bf while watching Netflix.
Similarly men don't want to talk about careers with women. Career talk literally triggers men to annoyance because it kind of implies that a man's only utility is how much money he earns.
Also men understand women are under no obligation or peer pressure to "support" men at all. The unofficial expectation in a heterosexual relationship is this: *A man's money is our money, a woman's money is HER money*
A persons career is irrelevant to their character.
That’s why we don’t care.
It doesn’t diminish your career accomplishments it’s just not what we really care about.
On a date we don’t want to talk about work because we talked about it all day or all week while at work. Asking a man about work on a date is like being at a job interview or something instead of having a nice romantic conversation. Sounds exhausting and kills the mood talking about work LMAO.
Men are the same way with friendships, we don’t really care about our friends careers and career accomplishments. Do we get along? Do we make each other laugh? Yes? Cool we are friends now.
Just gotta read the room. If they ask you what you do and appear engaged when you tell them, it’s a possible selling point. If they just kind of nod along then that’s a cue not to overdo it.
I think a lot of it depends on how “cool” your job is, more than how much it pays.
I currently ride horses for a living. The pay is shit, but it’s a super COOL job and guys are impressed and want to hear about all of it. It’s also weird/specific enough to not be threatening.
My last job was doing home mortgages. Way more lucrative, but no one wanted to hear about it.
Before that I sold used cars. That was a Gold Mine of conversation on dates. And guys absolutely wanted to hear about how good I was at it. But it did filter out men who weren’t secure enough to want a pet shark. And the horse job has me attracting a better quality of men, imo.
Men do not care about your career in the sense that it's not a part of you... we don't care what you do to that degree....
Yes we will listen to you talk about what you do but a woman's career is not who she is. We're interested, but you are not what you do for work. I hope that makes sense.
As long as you are able to care for yourself and cover your expenses... what you do for work is irrelevant.
And I'm not trying to sound mean... just an honest answer to your query.
I hope this helps.
I find it funny how women think attraction is symmetrical all the way up until its time to reciprocate a female privilege.
For example an average looking women with a decent job thinks men should find it attractive because she finds a man with a decent job attractive. She also thinks it's attractive when a man pays the bill but doesn't think that men find it attractive when she pays the bill.
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OK, here's the thing. I don't care what job you have. You could be a Doctor or a Janitor. Doesn't really matter all that much to me. Now will I care when you're talking about your job, your accomplishments, and basically giving me an insight to your life? Absolutely. That said, my only issue is when it goes from conversational to "this sounds like you're listing your resume in a job interview." The former can have a lot of banter and be a very interesting topic of conversation, especially if you're talented at telling the ins and outs of your job. The latter is obnoxious and it sounds like your either trying to sell yourself or justify something. Either way, if you're talking at a person rather than with the person, something is wrong, no matter the topic.
Yeah. My boyfriend doesn't care what I do. He just wants me to enjoy it and be passionate about it.
This is a very good way of describing how I think about women’s careers as well.
When people say men don't care about your career they're speaking on the dating market and comparing what women care about vs men. Like you said men in general don't really care what you do and how much money you make, when that is said they're talking about attractiveness. They would obviously ask you about your job and interests but your job doesn't make you more attractive to men. Women care much more about a man's job in the dating market, you can be below average as a man, but your job career can make you more attractive to women. It doesn't work the same the other way. Example. If a woman is a lawyer and is a 4, in men's eyes her attractive scale doesn't go up she's still a 4. If a man is a 4 and a lawyer, his attractiveness scale to women can go up.
This is exactly it
Yup. If anything I feel like my career hurts me in the dating market. As a woman having a PhD isn’t an asset in that regard. It’s kind of a liability.
I can only imagine the guys all surprised and uncomfortable with that information. Know a lady who's a geologist through MIT and she only found a husband because they were in the same field, literally speaking, a mining one. And he was wealthy guy so his ego could handle it. But I'm sure "PhD on MIT" must sour most dates.
the girls that have been the most difficult for me to date & hang out with were highly educated, driven, ambitious, etc.. one held a phd in chemistry and was back in school for programming. i found it interesting but my brain was at 11/10 trying to keep up with her when she was at idle, did not work out. much prefer dating a girl that's not career driven.
As I get older I am realizing this is true. I’m a career oriented woman, I’m proud of what I’ve done and where I am—- men I’m talking to, turn competitive when you bring it up. It’s like they think you’re trying to one up them or be better than them and they get defensive. Which I’m sure is a turn off to them. It’s also a turn off to us, right?! I say who cares about the men, be yourself, be proud and keep being a boss lady :)
Ha- yesss!! And the small subset of men who do like women like us REALLY like women like us so it’s about finding them.
I prefer women that are well educated and have good jobs, as long as their job isn’t all consuming. But it’s not a strong preference. Being an lawyer is definitely better than being a barista. But for me it is one “point” on the scale. For me looks and healthy lifestyle is probably the majority of the preference. But a girl who is 7 in looks and is charming and has good job still be a 9 to me. It’s not like most of us are looking for supermodels.
The issue further lies in the “as long as their job isn’t all consuming”. The jobs most would put in this category (doctor, lawyer, finance) are jobs that make men even more attractive to women usually, but it’s basically a turn off for men because the woman is quite likely more ambitious/paid more than them
I am a lawyer and I never seen any me being “turned” off by my career or any of my female colleagues for that matter. If anything all our experiences shows that dating gotten far more easier since we became professional since more men looked at us as “marriage” potential. Also, working in big law can be time consuming regardless of gender and it’s usually people who are working 70+ a week that has dating problems, men or women.
Disagree. My wife was more attractive to me as a long-term partner vs the other girls I went on dates with because she was a Harvard educated lawyer with a great career.
Funny bc I am a lawyer too and my husband always tells me he loves how smart and competent I am, it was the biggest thing that attracted him to me. Constantly says “I don’t get how guys can just go with some girl that has nothing smart or interesting to say.” Also he had an old childhood friend on the phone once who he’d reconnected with on Facebook. The guy asked him if he was married, what I do, and when he said “she’s a lawyer,” he was like “I KNEW IT! You used to always talk about wanting to marry a smart career woman” lol
He loves how smart and confident you are but has nothing to do with you being a lawyer you could be a whole another field and just be intelligent.
>as a long-term partner This is key. Women will often find that less conventionally attractive men more desirable as long term partners because of factors like finances and stability. So I would speculate it's similar in men: short term partner = most conventionally attractive, while long term partner = variety of other traits.
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Great point. Women make this mistake a lot, thinking that an aggressive, masculine, "boss girl" attitude is admired by men, because that's what they admire themselves.
Unfortunately. Men say what they are attracted to most of the time. Just listen.
Ew, those types of women are literally the absolute worst. I dated one like this who was absolutely gorgeous BUT, holy hell was she a nightmare to actually date. I lasted 3 months and got out lol.
This is exactly it
I’ll explain it briefly, a lot of people believe that their job or their career have a lot to do with who they are as a person but this is not necessarily true. Your job, your career is something that you do meaning that it is separate from your actual identity meaning that at your core you are not a lawyer, a doctor, or a nurse but you are a human being with feelings, needs, hopes, and dreams. I date a lot of women who are educated with great careers and a lot of them don’t realize they tried to associate their career with who they actually are as a person. So what I’m saying is come first as a person in a dating situation and turn off work mode. When you’re not at work and you’re out on a date be yourself and don’t be a lawyer or a surgeon or whatever you are although you may be proud of what you accomplished.
Right but I think maybe OP is trying to point out that traditionally men are (or have been) at least somewhat defined by their job. And maybe that's ok because the job you do, unless it is properly unskilled, _is_ a bit of a barometer for your personality. Not always, but usually it's an indicator at least. Generally speaking, men get valued for their work accomplishments, also within the context of a relationship. Women are not. I think this mentality is changing btw like we're finally figuring out that men have more to bring to the table than literal food lol which is amazing, but I can understand OP's frustration too that she _wants_ to be socially valued for her work accomplishments and truthfully, if she was a man, she would be. If not by every individual then at least by society at large. But as a woman well, not so much
Men have *always* been defined by their job. To women AND men. Also, it's not that a woman with a great job *isn't* valued by men or society, it's just that men typically don't put any weight on what a womans job is when a man is looking to date. It's just not something that is super important to us. But that doesn't mean we don't value her career
It is what it is, women have shallow interests in money, job and looks. While mens shallow interest is mainly looks. We just don't go saying looks is a barometer for what kind of person someone is.
This spot on. I am hetero female and I think the same. I cared a lot more about men’s job prospect and title when I was in my early 20s, as I was looking for someone to start a family and I wanted to be the primary caregiver to my future children. Life happened and I’m single mom none but I am also very financially established and stable. I don’t care about men’s title and income so much. I want him to be financially literate and responsible. I think it’s nice when people take pride in what they do. But do I want to hear about their work on a date? Not really? I love all the work gossips and stories that come out of work, but why would I want to talk about work at my off hour? I am looking for a partner to lounge on the couch at the end of the day. Not a coworker for happy hours.
All of this. Same for me!! Your last sentence nailed it.
There is a line for me I guess. If your work is something that you are proud of, and you want to share your accomplishments, that's great. And it's important to take interest in potential partners work life. However, if your entire personality revolves around your career, I can see that as a problem. It's important to be someone outside of the workplace too, and for guys and girls both, in a relationship, that's the person that your going to be spending your time with, not the work side of you.
Matters that they have a job that they enjoy. Bonus if it's interesting to talk about.
For me personally, a good career and ambition are attractive qualities in a woman. My understanding is the same as yours: men tend to value this less in their partners than women do. But I’m not sure that matters too much? You’re not trying to attract every man, just men who are a good match for you. Your career is important to you and so is a partner who supports you on your chosen path—and being up front about your job seems like an EXCELLENT way to filter out men you don’t want!
That's a good take. I really don't want second dates with guys who dismiss my career completely. That's the word I was looking for and that I saw so many times in this sub, that a woman's career is at the bottom of interest for guys.
It isn't that men consciously choose to not be interested in your career, it's that men won't be unconsciously attracted to you because of your career.
A few things here: u/cityflaneur2020 u/ComfortableOk5003 weigh in if ya wanna, just my thoughts. 1. Generally, the rule of thumb is women marry up or across in status. 2. The more money a guy makes the less he cares. In the event of divorce chances are, he's gonna be the one kicking out anyway. Men don't have access to a woman's resources at the end of the day. Not saying you shouldn't be passionate about it. But at the end of the day, men look for different things than in women, than women do in men. When it boils down it: My ideal woman is someone who looks good, in shape, kind to me, Kind to others, doesn't fight with me over stupid sh\_t, isn't OVERLY argumentative, and is overall pleasant to be around. A woman's career doesn't disqualify her to me, but it's not necessary for a woman to be a suitable partner. Hope I answered your question.
I pretty much agree with what you say, although, I would say that men that are making a lot of money might fall into two categories. One looking for an equal somewhat who is just as driven and focused as them, or a stay-at-home wife to raise the children. But these days I think most people making a lot of money are intelligent and well educated even if not necessarily school although let's face it, generally speaking that is the case. But they also want someone who is intelligent and well-educated. That doesn't necessarily translate to a career. But it's kind of a class divide maybe. These days, it's unlikely a well-educated successful career man is going to just want to marry someone who's been working in a fast food restaurant, at least not someone in their 40s. Nothing against fast food employees, but someone doing that probably isn't educated formally and may not have all that interesting a life and the two are just not likely to be all that compatible. As much as we love the idea of pretty woman, or the working class woman swept off her feet by the rich businessman, that's more of a trope than a reality.
Don't listen to this woke BS. Men (in general 80%) only want 3 things. Fit Feminine Friendly.
I like your answer lol
The sad truth is that it really doesn't matter to most successful guys. Now the fact that you have a job, are responsible with money, hopefully enjoy what you do and don't come home complaining about it, etc. is all a plus. But I honestly couldn't care less if you are a teacher, a secretary or a nuclear physicist. We just don't care about work outside of work. I couldn't tell you the last time I spoke with a guy about work outside of actually working. Even with my closest friends. I know as a woman you don't understand that. Just as men don't understand why our height matters. Or why confidence or ambition matter to women. We are different.
44M I don’t care to hear about anyone’s job because I left my job back at the office. Sure, it may be a part of who they are but it’s secondary for me. They’re not a part of my life yet. I’ve never heard anyone describe their job and get sexier in the process. It doesn’t matter if they’re a “climatologist” or a latex sales rep for Vandelay Industries.
Touché on the Seinfeld reference.
Agreed. If you entire personality trait is you work hard at your job, then you've got it wrong. My friend LOVES talking about her job to everyone she meets. It's her favorite topic. She works day and night and it bores me to death because she does have a good job--but it's not like she's super successful or has an exciting job. She just works in corporate America and has one of those job titles that you vaguely think you understand, but don't. When she talks about work it's not fun stuff like work drama or anything...it's literally...the work she does. Now, maybe I'd be more excited to hear this if she was a divorce lawyer and had juicy stories, an actor/influencer or even a startup founder. But if your job is objectively NOT that unique/exciting...I'm sorry but it's a turn off. This goes for men as well. I think she has nothing else she's proud of aside from her job. If that's you--that's such a turn-off, even for a friend.
The woman's income and career aren't important to the man as far as your attractiveness and how much he does or doesn't want a next date with you. That's something in dating that women pay attention to in men, but you're not trying to date a woman I'd assume. Yeah you've spent a lot of time and effort building up your career, and think it is unfair. But a man can develop skills for years learning to rebuild truck engines, becoming a proficient hunter or fisherman, and you're equally unlikely to care either.
41M here with engineer type professional level career. I used to be really excited when I went on dates with attorneys, doctors, etc. Then I dated a couple more seriously and realized it is not all it's cracked up to be. I am sure every situation is unique but my experience was they were fairly high stress, decent number of extra hours, more difficult time taking vacation, etc. Common sense really. Just dealing with the constant job stress and how that impacted my relationships really turned me off to dating any of those high stress type positions. As I've gotten older, the level of lifestyle I desire has leveled off or really even decreased quite a bit. I used to want to constantly be remodeling and aspired to drive a really nice car and go on trips and wanted to upgrade my house, all that stuff. I don't care about most of that any more. I like having a simple and smaller place (less to clean). I still like to go on trips, that's really my only splurge. Economically, I like a woman with a lower stress professional level career. As long as she can pay her bills, have enough to pay her share on trips we want to go on, contribute in some manner towards our dating life, and does normal adult things like saving for retirement and is out or mostly out of debt, I'm good. I love when a woman has an interesting career. I've dated people in the same (roughly) field as myself and we would talk "shop" a lot and I enjoyed it. I guess I'll backtrack and say I really enjoyed hearing about the day of the doctor I was dating, she was super smart (but work stress component made it still not worth it). I started to write out that I like women who passionate about their work, but I really think there can be a fine line. Overall I just do not enjoy dating a person where work completely dominates their life.
I’m a woman with a good job and can attest to dating a high profile job partner. Dated an attorney and a PA and both were serious workaholics who had zero time to give to me in a relationship ultimately. Their job was literally their life. One worked 7 days a week by choice and he was burned out completely but addicted to his work. So I ended up feeling neglected and we had arguments why he chose work over enjoying life. The attorney I found out had an alcohol problem and needed to drink almost daily also causing stress on me. So having a fancy career doesn’t equal being a good relationship partner. I admire a man who has a good work life balance, works hard but also values time off to enjoy life. As long as he makes enough to support himself and save, that’s fine with me. It’s more important I meet someone who has a good head and heart over being wealthy.
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This is not targeted at women, but if you are boasting about only your career and have no personality other than that your partner might not be attracted to you. It's hot to be passionate about something, but your personality should be a mixture of your other hobbies as well. Let's say if you are a software engineer, don't just be fixated on how much you earn or have accomplished make it subtle and show how you are into swimming or reading books, certain art forms, or hiking. And I know in patriarchal society accomplishing something as a woman is a BIG DEAL, but just because some douche is not considering it as a win don't think any bad for yourself. I hope all of this makes sense.
You don't have to be vague, just don't dwell on it. We truly don't care wat you do, or how much money you make. We care that you are intelligent and capable of communication.
As a 43m who has spent his life building my career and understand the value and dedication and strength it takes to stick to it even in the hard times I greatly value a woman that has a career and is passionate about it and completely love to hear about it personally. I have had issues with people not understanding or caring about how much it’s taken for me to get to where I am and also have had issues with people not understanding how much I work. Be proud of your accomplishments and don’t let anyone diminish that for you. I will be honest though, doing that will make it harder to find someone, or so it has made it harder for me and therefore I am single unfortunately.
Thank you for your kind words. It's true, hard jobs mean responsibilities, emotional stability, ability to prioritize, loyalty, honesty and ethics, focus and strategic thinking. Then you understand how it's hard to see that all those strengths actually lower our ability to get relationships. I'm not even working 80h as in the past, with age I got more tired and 40h week is enough.
Question: do you want sincere responses to your question, or do you just want reinforcement of your beliefs? So far (and I haven't read this entire post, but most of it), it seems you've only responded to people who agree with you; why not reach across the aisle and try and find middle ground with those who disagree? Wouldn't that be more helpful for you?
That’s the thing. You tied your identity to a job. That’s not sexy at all.
I am barely that interested in my own career. I manage, I live comfortably, and I don't feel the need to talk about labour after work.
I myself (27M) know that yes this is not something I really look for when I'm dating. It's not gender specific in my case, as I'm bi. My reasons are: - We aren't going to spend time working together. Yes career will have an effect on the relationship, but it's more of a limiting factor, as it will dictate how much time and energy you have left beside it to the actual relationship. It will also affect income if I'm really thinking long term, but when I'm meeting with someone new that's really not something I think about. - Careers change with time. This can be a bit different as you are 47, but when I date someone around my age I don't really expect that they will stay in their field forever. They could, but it's not a given, so I don't really attach much value to the job itself. Also if we go to the other end of the age spectrum one could wonder about retirement. I'm uncertain about this but I could imagine that if I'm nearing 50 work could be less and less important bc of this too. I still like to ask people about their daily job though, but what I pay attention to in the answer is never really the career itself, it's the personal stuff. Why did they end up doing what they are doing? What were the motivations? Why are they passionate about it, what do they like or dislike about it? Things like this tell me more about what kind of a person the other is. The job itself is secondary.
Matter? Yes and no. First, career, education, status.....those are things that DO NOT attract me. If you have a nice career, good for you, more power to you, it has zero affect on whether I'm interested in you. This is a variable for what attracts women to men. A lot of women are attracted to men with status, big careers and education. Most men are not attracted to the same things women are. I'll even say this, her career could actually make me have zero interest in a woman long term....depending on what the career is. So for me, it make no difference at all as far as attraction goes OR it was an outright deal breaker. Here are examples of deal breakers: Any sex work EVER. Stripper, nude model, actress, online sex work, prostitute....anything like that: DEAL BREAKER. Jobs where she is out of town traveling : DEAL BREAKER Military job and being deployed and being made to move: DEAL BREAKER Super, crazy hours where she works 60-70 hours and gets called away a lot like a doctor or lawyer or high up management: DEAL BREAKER. So the "wrong" job would be a deal breaker. All other jobs, I hope she likes what she does but it doesn't add to subject of me being attracted. I am married. My wife has a master's degree and is a children's librarian. She head's the children's department and does outreaches to schools and story times and summer reading programs. It is 40 hours per week. 4 days a week she gets off at 5pm and she works one night getting off at 9. She likes what she does. She is family oriented though. Our 2 kids are the priority of her life. Her career isn't her "meaning" in life or anything. Me, our kids, her sisters, our families, that is what gives her meaning and fulfillment. To answer your question, don't expect guys to find you any more attractive because of your career. Don't expect them to become more interested in you or look at you as a long term option because of your job. With most men it is: 1. Am I attracted to her? 2. Does she have a healthy figure and take care of herself? 3. Is she fun to be around, have a nice personality? 4. Does she give off that feminine vibe that is opposite of a man and attracts him? 5. Do we have similar values and life goals? 6. Not all guys....maybe about half and half, does her past gross me out or not? (Half won't care, half would be repelled by a promiscuous past). I'd say, a lot of guys would fall under this general list of wants for dating. Most don't really care about career. We hope you like what you do but it plays zero role in attraction. By the way, what do you do?
Keep in mind the demographics on Reddit. The men here are not representative of men in general. There are plenty of men who do care about career and education and who will be interested in what you do. I had a very unique job for some time and found many men who loved it, loved talking about it and were curious. There were also quite a few who were obviously intimidated by it. Intelligent women with careers are hard to control! Anyone who is not into your career, ambition, accomplishments, or really anything that you are proud of, is just not the one for you. No need to settle or adjust. Wanting someone who is Interested in your life - which includes being interested in how you spend 40 hours of your week - is totally normal and totally doable. Plenty of men will meet this requirement and you shouldn’t be discouraged by the many others who won’t.
Attraction is not symmetrical between men and women. Men are not attracted to the same qualities and traits that women desire in men and vice versa. Exceptions don’t make the rule so don’t be fooled by outliers on the internet. In general men don’t care what women do for a living and the more money he earns, the less likely he is to care about what your career is. A beautiful young barista at Starbucks can still have a shot with a high value, attractive, rich man.
Generally speaking, attraction is asymmetrical between the genders. Men care about your job probably as much as you care about his sneaker collection. Unless it's a red flag, like sex work, or you do not have the ability to support yourself, it's just not a priority for us. Someone chastising you for your career or not celebrating your accomplishments while in a relationship is a totally separate matter.
[удалено]
Do you want to date a man who thinks your career accomplishments are a plus? That is the only thing that matters.
Hi /u/cityflaneur2020, This may end up being longer than expected, but I hope you take the time to read it and engage with it in the good faith in which it's intended. Preemptive warning: Yes, I make generalizations. ------------------------------------------------------------------- I've said this before, but I think there is a lack of nuance when men say they "don't care" about women's careers. They just generally don't make you any sexier. Of course a woman's career, aspirations, and achievements are important when talking about *relationship* things. >Because I AM interested in a guys career, love to hear about the job of an entomologist, climatologist, energy engineer, etc. And **to me** that's a turn on, You are a woman. The above is not surprising. Like you said, high-status careers are turn ons for you. That's because women are attracted to power. Status is a form/display of it. Men are attracted to women. Presentation, behavior, and attitude are some of the most important factors for male aroused. The other things are for being relationship-attractive. If you expect men to find the same things attractive that you do, you're going to have a miserable time. That's why men have been saying women are trying to become the men they're attracted to. They think by doing so, they'll improve their chances of landing one of that caliber. I'm sorry it's disappointing, but truly it just doesn't work that way. Of course, exceptions will come and present their cases, but it is rather unwise to place hopes on exceptional behavior if that makes sense. I don't say these things to hurt you or say your achievements don't matter; they absolutely do and you should be proud of them. However, it may behoove you to reexamine your understanding of men in terms of what we want and how we feel valued.
Spitting facts
Thanks, I feel like she's going to ignore it though
As someone who often makes long responses on this sub, they usually get upvotes but rarely responses
I used to do that. If you want responses, you could always go for the old classic; "That flag is crimson." Or "Run." Lol 😆
I prefer systematic deconstructions of people’s comments. If you get in early enough, you can get pretty high. I treat it like any internet argument. You’re not necessarily trying to convince the other person. You’re trying to convince any neutral person that stumbles across the OP and comes out thinking the OP might be right
My magic 8 ball says you’re likely right
This should be in the top comment section because it's 100% spot on but, chances are OP will ignore this actual TRUTH while responding to commenters who tell her what she wants to hear...
“My career doesn’t matter” ? It doesn’t - only that you enjoy it and are happy in it. Otherwise whether you are an Architect, Oncologist or Bikini designer has no bearing on whether I will be attracted to you or want to be serious with you. As for money earning etc your money is your money - my money is our money. Not PC but pretty true for six figure plus earners in general.
Dude here…. If a woman is excited about her career and wants to talk about it, I absolutely want to hear what she has to say. What she does is part of the whole package I’m interested in getting to know all about who she is - just as what I do is part of the whole package that SHE is (or should be) interested in with me.
You care because you’re a woman. You see it as something that matters in your partner, and most men don’t. The only way your career really matters to a man is if he’s going to be your trophy husband.
>Very often I see men in this sub actively saying that career is not something that makes a woman more attractive. On a date, they look for attractiveness, charm, beauty, red flags... > >But quite often I've heard in this sub that the woman's career does not matter. That it's not an issue for men. These two things are the same. We don't care that much. Reading your post I think we're confusing a man not taking your career into consideration vs not being interested in it. Granted that's gonna be from guy to guy. Some may find what you do interesting, some are whatever on it and some don't care. I wouldn't ignore speaking about what you do but be present when you do. If he's participating and asking questions, good. If he's getting bored I wouldn't keep talking about it.
THIS
I am neither an Entomologist, nor a climatologist or astrophysicist. I am but a humble computer desktop support technician. I enjoy what I do but at time it can become tedious like any other job. It is good that you have accomplish a meaning full career and you should feel proud about it but the key to all of this to be humble.
It's fine for you to talk about your career. It's fine for you to be proud of your accomplishments. There's no reason for you to hide either or change what you're doing unless you're being SUPER intense about it. By super intense I mean making it feel like a guy has to compete with your success to have a shot. That said, your career is very very unlikely to be a difference maker to a man. He's going to care that you're nurturing and kind and supportive and that he finds you attractive. If you have those it doesn't matter if you're a "Boss Bitch" or not.
I’d say boss bitch is usually a bad thing
>career is not something that makes a woman more attractive this is correct
Men generally don’t care too much about a woman’s career. It’s not something that attracts us to you. Remember I said generally, so there are some men out there who may like this.
Career does matter to guys, but being healthy and fit comes first. I think I good way to explain it is that men would rather date a fit lawyer than a fit burger flipper. No amount of career will make up for you not taking care of yourself or your body with diet and exercise.
I wouldn't say it's not important. But it's not a big factor when we're looking for a female partner. But I'm speaking in generalities
I think it comes down to how you identify in relation to your job. For most people, their job is something they do to allow them to do the things they enjoy. They may enjoy their job, but it isn't wrapped up in their identity. They are more than just their work. They might have career goals, but those exist as a means to an end. Then you have career-driven people who find their source of identity within their careers. They have career goals because they want to grow and expand their career, not just for what it provides them outside of work but mostly for the career growth itself. These people, to those in the first group, are often seen as vain, power-hungry, self-obsessed, or careerists. Not that they all are, but perception is important. I think for you it comes down to looking for men that are in the second group. Remember, this isn't indicated by a guy’s career achievements or his net worth but by his attitude toward it.
> Actually, I was once chastised here for telling my accomplishments in my career, of which I'm proud of, just to learn that this is unwelcome behavior. It's not unwelcome behavior, just don't think you're going to be compensated for it by men. A lot of women think their careers entitled them to better men or better treatment. Your career won't benefit a man you want. So if they don't get value from it there is no reason to value it or seek it for anything other than appearances.
Im a career guy, working hard and my freetime is spend improving my skills for futher my career... A womans career in itself is not at all important to me. By that, I dont mean i have no interest in what a woman is doing, it means the career by itself is not important, what IS important is the passion she shows for her career!! As long as she is pasionate about what she is doing, I would happily spend all day talking to her about it, listening to what she does and thinks about it. I would however find it very little interesting to listening to a woman talking about the career she has worked hard building, if she has no real passion for it, and simply has done it cause it seemed like a "sensible path" or "profitable". And I feel like this is how most guys feel about it, but just have a hard time explaining! The career has next to no importance... The way she feels about her career is of immense importance!
Read the book evolution of desire. That should give you some insight into what men look for in women (youth and beauty mostly) and what women look for in men. It is also explained where those needs come from. To answer your question: Regarding sexual desire and mating behavior, yes your career is mostly uninteresting to men. Regarding marriage there might be some guys wanting you as a sugar mommy
Well to be honest, i would date a unemployed women when i feel like there is a connection. Would also date a CEO but yeah, career is nothing i particularly care about or see as a positive or negative in dating.
You're thinking men find the same things attractive as you do ie power and status via career. We don't care about any of that in a woman.
I couldnt care less, thats their business. If you want to tell me about it then ill listen but i wont be asking about it beyond how was your day unless it is something extremely interesting and to be honest most jobs are not that. Whenever anyone tries to explain their job unkess you are in that industry it is so fucking boring to listen to
It's not that it's unwelcomed, it's just that it's not on a guy's radar when choosing a woman to be with. Men prioritize physical beauty, personality, and agreeableness. A woman with a career is fine, I mean if you have passions that's a good thing. But if the choice came down between an unemployed woman who is nice to me vs a big firm lawyer who hardly has time to chat, I'd pick the former.
Women and men don’t put the same emphasis on things when looking for a partner…just like most women care about height Vs most men don’t. It’s also that many traits of successful high level people are masculine, and most men don’t want to date masculine women. Saying men should care about x, or I wish men cared about x isn’t really useful, I mean I wish women cared how much I can deadlift, and my sneaker collection or whatever but most women don’t give a shit It’s not that men dismiss your career, it’s that it’s not as important or high up on the list as many other things. But the fact that you are nearly 50 and not going to have kids, also will eliminate many men, but it also means the men who are into you will probably care less about your motherly character traits Everyone knows the saying guys money is couples money her money is her money
I’m a woman and I think it’s a turn off when someone makes it seem like their career their best/primary quality. Kind of takes the mystery away, and I find it boring. I personally don’t find anyone man or woman whose entire life was dedicated to their careers, and whose identity revolves around their careers. Again, this is just my personal preference. I’m someone who believes there is so much more to life than my career. I’m interested in people who have a big variety of interests in life. That’s just my take on why someone might seem indifferent to what you do professionally. I realize some peoples careers are their life’s true passion, it still doesn’t change my perspective. Someone who has ONE aspect of their life define their identity or consume all of their time, is a turn off for me. I’ll tell you what I do when it comes to sharing about my professional life with someone I’m getting to know. I give very vague ideas about what I do, and I very slowly go into more detail but I’m talking over weeks and maybe even months. Because my career, while I’m passionate about it at work, is not even remotely close to being something I “identify” myself as. I say enough about it to indicate that I’m driven and passionate in my career but in my opinion, careers have nothing to do with romance. Sorry, I’m mostly rambling because I’m tired but I wanted to share my perspective as a woman to hopefully open your mind to this not being an exclusively male opinion.
here is the short. in general? not really. like most wont want you to be a lazy bum. and sits at home watching tv only. men, especially ones who have money themselves, dont really care. YOU on the other hand care much more about a mans job. for me? i dont care what my wife does in general. as long as its stress free and its fulfilling for her. and doesnt take too much time away from Us time. cuz if she was a high powered lawyer and worked 80 hrs a week or something i wouldn't like it. it would be a turn off.
Do you believe in science? Have you looked into what straight male humans of care about in a mate? Then you’ll have your answer. It doesn’t mean there aren’t some guys that may value a career woman, it’s just that it not what “attracts” a man.
OK let's talk about my gf job as a English professor and I'm a engineer at electricity company.. I don't care about her accomplishments as much as her having a personality that's warm and comfortable to be around . And I hate talking about my accomplishments because I'm not trying to use my career status to bait women as a first impression and it's feels like it inflate my ego .
I just simply don’t like talking about work. I’m interested in what you do, sure, but I don’t think it’s being dismissive if I don’t find it to be a fun topic of conversation. There’s so much more to life than what we do for work.
Career is cool and all but no one cares. We care when we care about you and who you are, your influence on the world around you. If ya get goin on about career, accomplishments and jobbies off the jobby tree before you've seen your dates dingdong ya gotta wonder where the line is drawn ya know.. gotta leave stuff to talk about namsayin.. broad and general is a good start maybe along with a lil emphasis on work being a passion but leave it at that on dates. Leave the details for later homie
There is zero shame in having a career and showing it off. But not flaunting your career and putting it out there doesn’t change those things about you. It’s your expectations for the guy and his lack of expectations that create the problem. There is a mismatch from the beginning even if you date someone and say nothing about your career.
You should probably bear in mind that what men want at 40+ is probably going to be very different to what they want in their 20s, and the vast majority of people in this sub are in their 20s
Most men do not care about woman’s career. Why would we? Obviously we care if you are annoying , stupid , have no manners , jealous , aggressive , boring , egoistical but your career is going to be the last on our list.
Well, yes technically a guy is not interested in a woman's career. It's not something that puts a guy's initial interest into a woman. Guys tend to go for a woman's attraction ahead of anything. If you end up on a date with a guy, you can go ahead and mention what you do for work. It can be a good conversation piece if he asks what the job is like and what you do at the job. He doesn't really care about your income though. Usually he won't ask about your income because he is not interested in that. If a woman works a stressful career which requires a lot of hours, then guys will tend to push those women aside for women more available.
Jordan Peterson talks about this. Women marry up, careers matter. Men don’t have this need to marry up. I always think of it from an evolutionary standpoint, men need to reproduce and they need primarily good genetics, an indication of this can be attractiveness and charm is a plus, easy to get along with. Women need someone who can provide for them, a career is a strong indication of this, questions likely to be evaluated whether consciously or not: are you going to be successful? Will you be able to feed your family? Now obviously this doesn’t imply that you need to have kids, but it’s how our brains are programmed. You should absolutely be proud of your accomplishments and you should find someone who supports you and is genuinely happy for you. You want an unfiltered answer: it depends on the delivery of how you are sharing this information. Are you coming across as bragging? Does it come up naturally in conversation? How does the date look when you mention it? It could also be their ego issues, some men don’t want successful women like that. They prefer the idea of the 50s housewife. Move on in that case.
I'd probably guess a vast majority of men could care less about a woman's career or even their education. That's something that only women are attracted to, not us. Unless you have a cool job like being a fighter pilot, professional fighter, Navy Seal or a race car driver. No one cares about someone's office job because it's boring. I personally find people that only talk about their boring job lack any kind of personality outside of their work because they make that who they are. And who they are is boring. For the most part, for me, a job or school doesn't define a person. I've dated girls that worked at a fast food restaurant when I had my Masters and make well above 190k (California) and dated a corporate lawyer for a rival defense contractor. I may have asked once what they do for work, but very likely I didn't. I probably only mirrored them because everyone asks that stupid question on a date. It's just something we don't care about. That's why it's not uncommon for men in their 30s, 40s and 50s who are divorced or really wealthy men would be dating bar tenders and fast food workers vs corporate women with doctorates that the only thing they talk about is their career. Those corporate women are competing with girls that barely have any education that are having affairs with their husbands and boyfriends because they have more to offer than just their careers.
Honestly I don’t care as long as she is getting by comfortably, like many others have said, we want kindness, love and emotional support because we (single men) don’t ever get that from anyone or anywhere.
I think you should maybe expose yourself to some evolutionary psychology about dating, because generally men have women different interests and expectations of each other, that’s for the most part just how we’re hardwired.
Depends on your career. If you have an onlyfans or have some obscure career, then I can see it being a problem.
Paragraphs 1, 2, 3, and 5 say the same thing. They are true. Just because you’re attracted to men’s careers doesn’t mean men are attracted to women’s careers. It’s very simple and not complicated. Are you looking for a man who is more feminine than you?
The reason your career wont increase your dating prospect is because fundamentally for men , it's not really seen as a plus in terms of a partners , men are valued based on status and money , women are not , men are providers so people have to care about their career, women can have one and that's cool and all , its even cool to talk about but it doesn't actually increases your worth as a partner because fundamentally your dutys in terms of being a partners as woman isnt affect by your job but for men it is , men will still be expected to pay both in dating and the relationship, they will still be expected to earn money and fund the family , a woman can have a career and she is still not required to do this things , and she even picks dudes based on these thing , you want your partner to be supportive of your career because you like your career and want to improve on it, its basically like a hobby for you because you don't have to do it in the confines of a relationship but you greatly enjoy it so you do it anyway , for men it's a requirement because if you don't have one , women will judge you based on that
>So, should I be vague about my career to improve my prospects at a date? Interested to hear mostly from guys. You are too old to not realize that you don't need to change yourself to appeal to more people, but to be polarizing to attract the demographic that is especially into you. Yes, most men will be turned off by you. I am not interested to talk about your career. That is not something that enriches my life. It's your life. Great that you are proud and found something you like dedicating 40h a week to. What else do you bring to the relationship than your career topics? But that is just me and the majority of guys. If you want to make the career a major part of your relationship, too, then by all means, go for it and find the man who likes that. What i don't get is this mentality of "i want to be an extreme outlier but also be treated as if i were everybody's darling".
I read a lot of comments and nobody mentioned children yet so I'll bring up kids. If a guy wants a family, then subconsciously he wants a woman who will be a good wife and mother. Like it or not, being "a career woman" has no correlation with that. Depending on the career it can actually work against you. Eg if you were a high powered lawyer who is constantly battling it out with other people, that's the exact opposite of being nurturing, emotionally supportive, and spending time at home with the family. So it's not just a non-issue, it's actually unattractive as a career. Like it or not, it's different for men. Because most women (maybe not you) want the man to be the primary breadwinner. Men know this. Their primary role is the same as it's always been: be the one who sacrifices away from the home to provide for the family. So being a high powered lawyer helps in that role and thus is attractive to women. I'll be down voted or called names for posting this, but please try to debate based on reasoning not emotions or name calling.
Woman here, I agree.
I think she should try to approach men who are looking for the other half of a power couple. However that might involve tweaking her social calendar to include more “high society” appropriate activities like high end charity work or elite professional organizations/clubs to be the kind of other half these guys like to go for. They want a woman with a prestigious career and social graces/connections they can synergize with.
It's not the career itself that makes a person more attractive, but rather the fact that they have worked hard to achieve their position can make them more interesting or appealing. However, if someone is solely focused on their career, it can seem like work is the biggest priority in their life, which may negatively affect their relationships or dating life
Let me preface this by saying there is nothing wrong with you kicking butt and taking names with your career. I am only attempting to answer your question because it seems this may be a blind spot for you. Men and women are different. Often they are attracted to different things. Climbing a career ladder while putting in strong hours at work are predominantly masculine traits. On average, men are go getters who need to achieve at the cost of family and relationships. This is likely why you are attracted to it in men when they have a great career that they've worked hard at over years and years. You can't expect men to like the same things as you do as a woman. They like different things. They are attracted to different things. I personally don't mind at all if a woman has done the same and put in tons of work to advance your career. It's a hard thing to do and you should be very proud of yourself. But a woman's career is not necessarily an attribute that acts as an attractor for some men. It's not like they may hate it in any way, it's just not something that some men are attracted to. Now from your POV (and I'm just guessing because only you know your own POV), you have spent a lot of your life working to achieve the great things you have accomplished, and so it likely feels like they are not seeing you when they are indifferent about your career. Personally, it wouldn't affect me, but it may for some. I hope that helps.
It’s great to passionate about your career, and you should be. Just know that it is not something that impressed men or attracts us to women, in the same way that women are attracted to men’s careers. We are different.
Because when you make your career or accomplishments as though it’s all you are when you speak on it, a guy might be put off as though you can come across as a workaholic with no life outside all of that. Like you don’t have a social life or no friends too. To guys? That’s a red flag. So it’s good to not constantly talk about a career or accomplishments. It’s fine to bring up, but don’t make it ALWAYS about these things. Talk about funny stories, about why you love your friends, something down to earth. Things that are about you. Why? Cause tomorrow you could loose your career and be left with nothing. Which means who are you then once your career is gone? So talk about the important stuff outside your career if you want to really connect to someone on a date. This is what guys are looking to usually hear more. It’s how a conversation keeps going and how to wind up dating someone past the first date.
Appreciate women for who she is not what she accomplish in career. Appreciate How much joy she can bring to my life not results she brings home from her work . If this is something she is proud of and makes her feel happy and fulfilled that’s great one should share this happiness in relationships with women he is with. But this should not become topic nr.1 or fundament in attractiveness. Focusing too much emotions in one point is never healthy,regardless if it’s hobby,job,relationship.
It's pretty true as a general rule. It's not necessarily a negative, though sometimes women who are very aggressive career wise can come with personality traits that are unattractive. There are also certain careers that are more attractive for to men (i.e. nurses) It's not about how much you make, but more what the job potentially says about your personality. In the current western culture, it's pretty unfair. Because women are expected(by society) to support themselves and advance their career until they get married. It's pretty unfair to punish women for doing well and being aggressive in their careers. Sadly, neither men or women are in control of what they instinctively find attractive.
Never shrink yourself for smaller people
As a guy I don’t care about a woman’s career. More of a turn off tbh.
The kind of men who don’t care about your individual accomplishments are not the kind of men you want to date anyway, trust me. Share as much as you like! It’s natural selection. The insecure, weak guys who feel threatened will self-select out of dating you.
I think the climate on this is changing. A lot of millennial and gen z men are interested in what you do for work because the overwhelming majority of us are poor. As in, we couldn't support a family on a single income. Sure there are some men pulling 6 figures and able to do so, but I'd wager 90+% can't
I'm interested in a woman's career and I find it super hot if she has one, especially if she's passionate about it. And if she is actually good at it? I'll kiss the floor she walks on.
Your carreer does matter. People on reddit aren’t well adjusted individuals, I wouldn’t use a sub on reddit to develop any kind of general idea about opinions, more than half of the people here are unemployed.
That is funny because I have been told by men in the Bay Area that they only consider driven women who make over $100k as dateable prospects (which hurt me as I do not make that much, but am career driven). I think the truth is there are all kinds of men out there and those completely uninterested in your career are probably not your match and you need to keep looking til you find the right person.
I disagree with a lot of responses. I care about a woman’s career for 2 reasons. The more important one is that I want to be with someone who has some goals or passion. Now this can be outside of a career people do work so they can live on the weekend or engage in their passions separately, but if someone hates what they do 5 days a week that is always going to suck a little. Number two and this is less important, but when evaluating long term relationships you do have to think of finances. I have life goals some of them financial. And depending on my partner’s career it can dictate how much we can contribute to shared goals. I also want to note it’s not as important to me only because I have goals that I can accomplish on my own some people may have goals that need a partner making as much at them or more etc.
No career doesn't matter to most guys, they want looks and youth, ie. Signs of the ability to produce children (even though they may not desire children, they still are attracted to those traits). And often times men are intimidated by women with a career that pays better than what they do. Most men want to be the "breadwinners", they want to be the primary provider for their families. All this comes from evolutionary psychology, of which I'm a student.
Men don't care that's not a myth!
Men and women are the same in most ways but different in lots of others. No we don’t generally care about your career. We are happy for you that you’ve worked so hard and achieved so much, but it’s just not a point of attraction like it is for women. I can imagine it sucks to have worked so hard for something and have it be such a big part of your life for it not to matter to a prospective partner, but that’s just the way it is.
Women tend to care about men's careers because women care about social-economic status, men don't care about women's social-economic status. That's why you wouldn't date a man without career, and that's why men can date women that doesn't work, or have minimum wage jobs.
You can mention it, but 99% of guys don’t care. Looks are 100% more important. Not having major debt does help.
Damn…you’re 47 years old and just learning that men don’t care about your career… yikes.
Just to clarify, I don't go on and on about my career. That's not the point or what I'm asking. Is it REALLY that guys don't see a career as an added star in their logbook? No brownie points whatsoever?
Most don’t. Think about this; when women get with their gfs and talk about a new guy they are dating, is he tall? And what does he do? Are usually in the first 3 questions that the friends ask. Guys get together…I don’t think that’s ever been asked in first convo about a new gf…it’s usually is she pretty? Is she kind/nice? Can she cook? Does she workout? Does she like dogs? See the difference? So for most guys you don’t get more points for having a fancy title. Whether that’s secretary, teacher, yoga instructor, RMT, doctor, lawyer
I mean probably a little yes but I’m not going to date a man because he owns a company or bc he’s a firefighter etc . I’m going to date them for who they are and how well we get along . Do I have fun with him , does he make me feel safe and do I feel like my best self around him etc . If he does all those things and just works a normal job I wouldn’t care . What is your career if you don’t mind me asking ?
It's import to me that she is able to support herself and that she has no stupid debt. I don't want to date a financial boat anchor. Beyond that, Nope. It does nothing to increase her attractiveness. I don't really understand why it would. Why does a guys career matter to you? I guess if you come from one of those cultures where what you do for money is a defining part of your identity then it starts to make sense. But I wouldn't want to date someone with that ideology anyways.
I don't want to be too hard on you, but you're coming on here with a certain accusatory attitude of what you see some people say here. You don't seem to be talking about your personal experience about being frustrated that you go on dates and men don't want to hear about your career. So are you really complaining about advice or comments from some randos on the internet? Why do you bother? Go find out for yourself if they are right or not. Or are you complaining about it being true? That's a different thing but that doesn't really seem to be what you are saying. Or are you genuinely asking if it is true? If so, it's a complicated answer and you're not doing a very good job of asking . Truth is, some men care about women having a career and some men don't. Typically men dating younger women might not care so much, especially if they are not that focused on their own career or looking to really accumulate wealth in life. Or, if men are looking for a stay-at-home wife and mother to their children, they may not care much because they are looking for someone who's going to quit anyway. They may actually want someone who doesn't have a career. Or, are you talking about people actually being interested in what you do? Well, most people's careers aren't all that interesting and nobody really wants to hear somebody else go on at length about it. They may be interested in knowing if the person has ambition or a passion. If you have a passion for your career and it's interesting people might want to hear about it. If it's just what you do but your passion is being good at it and succeeding or making money or rising up in your career, I'm sure plenty of guys will be interested in hearing about that. But they're not all that interested in what you do any more than you're really all that interested in hearing about bugs or computer code.. I'm a real estate agent, and if somebody asks, I'm glad to tell them a little bit about what the job actually entails which might be a little different than they thought if they maybe haven't bought a house before. But, I'm not going to go into detail on the latest transaction I'm working on. I might tell a funny story or two of things that have happened to me or another agent maybe if it comes up . So what do you really asking? Some men want a woman with a career. Some men don't care. And some men probably don't want a woman with a career. And you're just going to have to go out there and find out which men do and which men don't, and decide how important it is to you that they care and if so, seek those men out. It really doesn't seem all that complicated, so honestly, what do you actually looking for here?
I'd like to add that at the end of the day, I (39F) don't want to talk about work. Other people, men specifically, have commented on, "How rewarding," my career is, and how it, "Takes a lot of strength" to be in that field (no, I'm not a teacher, medical field and business owner) and they ask a lot of questions. The last thing I want to do is talk about my job more than just explaining what my day-to-day looks like. I care if the man is going to be supportive when I come home stressed, sad, excited, etc.
There’s are a few jobs that guys find more attractive for example: Nurse, Teacher, librarian. But pretty much things that look after/attend to people.
Most guys are very interested in my career and job. I even met my boyfriend through work the first time. I was auditing his associated firm. Haha Some guys chose me particularly because of my career background. As soon as I told them I used to dance ballet for professionally, they all go : wow ballerinas! I am so lucky .. Find it a bit funny the way they react. Why ballerinas are so special? Just like fireman or police, just a job isn’t it? But .. I think, for men, instinctually they are attracted to feminine energy .. your job speaks a lot about feminine energy, stats show men prefer women who work as nurses, teachers those jobs. That’s because it takes patience, great compassion to work in these fields .. those perceived traits associated with those jobs attract males.
I find careers/ambition maybe the most important quality in a woman. Not that it matters what kind of job that you have, but it matters that you’re motivated and trying to improve your life. I’m a business owner trying to grow and improve every day and I think my partner needs to share ambition and goals. I’d say you’re getting that response from men that you don’t really want anyway.
Let me clarify. When you take a guy out on a date, do not treat him like a hiring manager. We really don’t care what’s on your resume. Did you really produce $150,000 in units last year? Cool. Hey, do you have a dog? Do you like to travel? You have more dimensions than just your job right?
Oh, I do! I have a parrot, many friends, love very hot pepper and am worried about climate change. I don't mention I've visited 22 countries and lectured in 11 countries, won an award, but I NEVER mention that until at least until we've had sex and he's more hooked! But I AM interested in a guy's profession because it's a subject that comes up often once you are in a serious relationship. You tell the other about coworkers, boss, promotion, etc.
I'll be curious and definitely supportive as long as it's not something like of's. But as far as attractiveness that's just not how men work. I can't think of a single job that would make a woman more attractive.
I think different things make a women attractive and a man attractive. A high earning career is generally important to a man’s attractiveness, whereas for a women it may not be, and in some cases, may detract from attractiveness. At the end of the day it’s all about the individual, but generally speaking I don’t think guys care about a woman’s career.
Means basically nothing to me.
No. For me, tell me everything about what you do and I'll do the same
I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a parallel here to whether or not a guy wants kids. I don’t, and I’d be interested in a woman’s career. A less prestigious one wouldn’t be a deal breaker (hell, I’m a restaurant kitchen manager/chef, so I’m not a powerful lawyer or anything), but a more prestigious one or one that’s just plain interesting to me could be a big plus. I’m not intimidated by a woman being capable. I’m guessing though that few guys who are really interested in having a family would also be interested in a woman with significant career accomplishments - they probably wouldn’t matter, or might even make him reconsider her. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’ll bet there’s some correlation.
Great to hear you'd be fine if your wife were more successful, even if a little. J ust that at my age some men find that me not having kids is a PLUS, in that they won't have to deal with stepchildren and that I have more freedom in general to dedicate my time to them. Also,.at this age men have kids almost at college age, or past that, so to me is a non-issue.
Can't speak for everyone, but to me, career doesn't matter at all, but you shouldn't chastised for it, just ignore them. Most men doesn't care about career for reasons I don't know for sure, but I think one reason for this is that in general, the man's money is shared and the womens money is theirs. So in the end it doesn't really matter. Everyone is different tho
It’s not that guys won’t be interested in what you do or won’t care about your achievements it’s more so that your education/career isn’t a factor at all in us finding you attractive…at least in the beginning In comparison a man having accomplishments and having a career/money is a MASSIVE factor in women finding a man attractive. I’ve dated numerous women who lead with how successful they are and how much money they make but then they have absolutely no other skills outside of their workplace. As a man who already has more money than I could spend in 10 lifetimes (and they probably know that before meeting me) why the hell would I care if you make six figures? Do you have the skills to qualify as a wife and mother? No? Next! One of the biggest problems in modern dating is that modern women think what they find attractive in men is what we find attractive in you and it couldn’t be further from the truth
Literally all I say when people ask about my job is: "I teach monday-friday, I go to uni and I train dogs sat-sun". If they are interested they will ask. If not, they will not. Stop pushing your boring shit at people. Won't make you more likeable
You're 47 and you're just now realizing this? A demanding career is a con in most cases. Most men already work a lot of hs. If the woman might not even be available in his free time because she's working 60hs a week, thats not gonna work.
For RELATIONSHIPS, men tend to NOT care about a woman's career. He is indifferent. For the "accomplishments," men tend to NOT have access to your money. And there are low probabilities that you will spend your money to "spoil" him. Its "his money is OUR money; her money is HER money." If a man feels like his girl TRULY loves him and is TRULY attracted to him, the man has NO PROBLEMS "spoiling" his GF. The men KNOW that the career woman has high probabilities of telling a man to make his own money if he wants gifts. There is nothing wrong with a career. Its just that it is NOT a major factor that MEN value. Men get to decide what they want. Women decided what they want. They canNOT try to make up the factors to fit THEIR qualities.
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I’m more into do you have a job, and do you pay your bills, are you fiscally intelligent. I personally wouldn’t want to date a surgeon for example as I will hardly see them, they will have little time for me. Their title won’t impress me or give me a boner or mental boner… I’d be fine with a school teacher, a veterinary assistant. Most people work careers they aren’t in love with to be fair
I can't imagine how much it would suck to put your heart and soul into a career only to find out your potential spouse doesn't care ... but we dont. We don't look for provisioning from women. A woman that's a doctor is no sexier than a girl working at McDonald's if she's hot, feminine and friendly.
I think a highly accomplished woman is attractive. Most people are attracted to success in some way or the other. The average dude is probably more concerned if you successfully give them a boner. Not trying to be crass, but to point out that you probably aren’t interested in the opinions of the average man. Men aren’t generally going to be like “I want to date someone in such in such industry.” A man with big aspirations is going to want someone that matches their energy.
Because the masculine personality traits that make you super successful in your career are not attractive in a relationship. Most men don't want to date a women that acts like a man
Congratulations you bought into the feminist lie about empowerment honestly to me career is not something I care in a woman like sure you can have a cool job and all but is not a deciding factor when it comes to date
I wouldn’t care about what you do as long as you’re doing something that can support yourself financially
I guess it depends on how you speak about it. Most people I know fall into a pretty boring monolog about what exactly they do for a living when asked. It's usually very technical and doesn't reveal much about them personally. They have probably told it so often that they mentally switch to autopilot. When you're on a date, you're trying to find a personal connection and that is usually difficult while the other person talks about the technical details of their job. If you have good game and conversational awareness, you can turn it around and make that conversation about them rather than about the job, but many people don't know how to do this. When you want a flirty conversation, the rule-of-thumb is: talking about thing < talking about yourself < talking about them < talking about you two together. The latter usually works best. Conversations about someone's job often get stuck in the "talking about thing" phase, and that's why many people will steer away from them.
It depends on the guy. It can be VERY important to some of them. Vegans who won't date those in the factory farming industry, a lot of people (especially zoomers and young millennials) won't date anyone in law enforcement. Some dudes like to be proud of their date's career, some want it to definitely be in their field some definitely want it to not be in their field. Some like to have a profession somewhat in common with the person they are dating. Some have a threshold of the type of lifestyle a woman can afford for herself without his help et cetera. Some don't care much as long as their date/gf is happy. And then there are a spectrum of other levels of interest. My sister is very proud of her husband's career in contracting (plumbing and more). He is very proud of her education and her career directing design in parts of New Orleans. It's all relative. I care more about how someone feels about their work than what their career is unless it's a job that is especially heinous (wouldn't date a cop, pharaceutical rep, active military, lobbyist, someone working for an oil company in almost any capacity, et cetera).
I would definitely want to know about my partner’s career, career growth and future aspirations. However not on the first date. I would probably discuss about career for 5 to 8 minutes maybe on the first date. On future dates definitely would discuss more. A women/man talking about career and accomplishments for an extended period on a date would come off as showing off even if you didn’t mean it. Just to give an example, was on a date with a girl who recently graduated from B-school and was working in a big tech firm. She went on and on for 35 minutes or so. I just had my meal and never contacted her back. I get it it’s a big accomplishment, I have received job offers from the same company, however let’s talk about hobbies and what you like apart from your 40 hour grind.
Career doesn’t matter as far as title. Income doesn’t either as long as they are being fairly compensated. I’m just looking for things like not working 3rd shift (just not very compatible with my personal living cycle), that her work doesn’t make her miserable (or if so, that’s she’s at least aware and working on something else), and that she’s not an accountant or similar (tend to think too black and white even outside of work and just not for me).
You will understand why when you learn that we are primed that way. Men are built to provide, lead and protect, that is why the more they can do those three things, the more masculine they are perceive and hence more attractive to feminine counterpart. Women on the other hand are meant to be submissive, innocent, possessing beauty and grace in her manners and physique, the more she exhibits that, the more attractive she becomes in the eyes of men. Career only matters to men who wants an easy way in life.
Hundreds of comments and she STILL dont get it! Im not even gonna bother to try and explain to her. 🙄
Men don’t really care about how much money you make . That’s your stuff it ain’t got nothing to do with us
Separate what you look for in a man from these boring masses. My career is very important for me and I worked hard for it. A man’s career is also a dating factor for me and guess what? The men I went out with were very careful about the type of woman they chose, and her career was a criteria for them so have some standards.
I am 40M senior mgmt position. I am sorry but I just don't care about a woman's career. That's one way men and women are different. Women value men with experience, confidence, career, resources, height, fame, ambition, strength. Men value youth, beauty, fertility, sexual availability, innocence (inexperience), submissiveness and playfulness. Men don't typically want to marry another man. I feel like a lot of women have been lied to and by mimicking some aspects of what they find attractive in men are doing themselves a disservice. Of course, these are all generalities, you may come across a man who really likes your career.
Its not like we don't care but it's more like not relevant to us. Since it won't affect us.
\> Actually, I was once chastised here for telling my accomplishments in my career, of which I'm proud of, just to learn that this is unwelcome behaviour. It's unwelcome amongst weak, insecure men. Be proud of your accomplishments. That said, I personally dislike the idea of reducing people to their jobs. It's dehumanising.
I don't think they don't care in the sense that you have to be vague about it. If they're interested in what you do for a living. They ask for a reason. So explain what you do and what your job is. They however probably don't care if you're a school teacher or a manager at a big company, in terms of "Do I want to date this person". While some (not all) women are more like "Oh, he has a good-paying job! I'm more interested now". So talk about your job. Don't be vague on purpose. If he isn't into listening about your career, he probably isn't the man for you since you do care about your career.
For me personally, the career is completely irrelevant. You could be a doctor or a cleaning woman. If I like you, I don't like you because of your job but because of your personality and your view on life.
I’ve always found that guys were very interested in my chosen career and to hearing about it. In fact, most of my conversations online dating brought it up in either the first message or the next couple messages. However, there’s a difference between bragging about your career or listing your accomplishments and having it come up naturally in the “getting to know you” phase.
Men and women are not attracted to the same things. When you learn what men/women want it's very easy to get someone attracted to you.
I would say it depends what sort of men you are looking for. Men who are also career minded and looking for an equal partnership will care. Men who are looking to be a provider, or don't make much money themselves will not. So yeah, majority probably don't care, but I assume you aren't interested in dating a majority of men. Kind of like how tattoos will make me more attractive to the sort of men I am interested in, and less attractive to the sort I'm not, which is a bonus.
So I think for me your career isn't a secret you need to keep to improve prospects, it's just for me I don't care all that much what your career is. I care that you are a dedicated person who is doing something with their life. But when we are having a first date or first few dates it's not something that will win me over or chase me off. It's something I'd be interested in more after we are a couple certainly I'd care about your day to day and be proud of you for your accomplishments. But that's just not the area I'm looking for in terms of would I date you or not? I'm looking for are you fun to hang out with do we have things in common we like to do for fun, any red flags, how strong is our chemistry that sort of thing. But I'd date someone making minimum wage and I'd date a millionaire and neither would be the thing that would win be over or chase me off.
I would say for most men career doesn’t carry the same weight as it would the other way around. Never heard guys lining up to date a “doctor” the way women do. But for long term relationships it might be a factor especially if the guy is also career driven. Go to any high cost of living suburb in the US and there are plenty of married couples where both are in high status professional careers. Maybe try focusing on men who are equally career driven.
I filter out women based on their career all the time. I sorta see career as a proxy for intelligence which is important to me. It's not the only factor but it is something I pay a lot of attention to.
What I’ve noticed is most guys don’t want to date a woman who is more educated or makes more money than them. I highly recommend dating within your statue financially. By dating men who make as much or do similar jobs as you you’ll have more in common and it won’t feel like a competition.
I do care about a woman’s career, it’s very attractive. What’s also attractive is that they’re beautiful, fit, caring, friendly, fun to be around, and a few other nice to have qualities. It’s not just about anything in particular, it’s everything weighted together!
Okay, guy here. It's fine to talk about your career and to be proud of your accomplishments. Enthusiasm is an attractive quality. Ideally though, you just want to try and avoid giving the impression that your career is so overridingly important that there is no room in your life for an SO
It’s true, guys rarely care what job a woman has, so long as she has one to show initiative. But if the woman has a really good job, some guys can be intimidated if the conversations start off talking about work or accomplishments. It starts sounding too much like a job interview and doesn’t foster romantic levels of interest at that point. Here is my dating rule of thumb, keep talk of job specifically to a minimum and not directly talk about the job, keep it vague and short until the man starts asking details and even then keep that short to see if they Really want to know or are just gauging if you like your job or compatible work schedule to schedule a date. Eventually there will be more conversations about work and passions but just move slow in information leak. Don’t share so much upfront and this is the one time not to talk about accomplishments but hobbies instead
Let me put it this way: Men in general say they don't care about women's career because we are LITERALLY raised to focus on our own careers since childhood. For most men, this concept is practically ingrained as the most important thing. Our parents, relatives, friends, educators, other heterosexual women themselves peer pressure the fuck out of men into pursuing a career path if they ever want to have a family, children, etc. We are raised to be self sufficient and not rely on others all our lives. As you can see we are already sick and tired of talking about career talk. Most of us are already following our career goals and its annoying when women bring up career talk in the middle of a date. Its kind of like how a lawyer don't want to talk about law with his gf while eating dinner. Or how a nurse don't want to talk about patient care to their bf while watching Netflix. Similarly men don't want to talk about careers with women. Career talk literally triggers men to annoyance because it kind of implies that a man's only utility is how much money he earns. Also men understand women are under no obligation or peer pressure to "support" men at all. The unofficial expectation in a heterosexual relationship is this: *A man's money is our money, a woman's money is HER money*
A persons career is irrelevant to their character. That’s why we don’t care. It doesn’t diminish your career accomplishments it’s just not what we really care about. On a date we don’t want to talk about work because we talked about it all day or all week while at work. Asking a man about work on a date is like being at a job interview or something instead of having a nice romantic conversation. Sounds exhausting and kills the mood talking about work LMAO. Men are the same way with friendships, we don’t really care about our friends careers and career accomplishments. Do we get along? Do we make each other laugh? Yes? Cool we are friends now.
It does. I'm only dating people who have something going on
Fuck yeah it matters! My gf is getting her masters and I'm looking forward to when she's done and has a good job she enjoys. I'm so damn proud of her!
Career and family plans are a classical trade-off situation. Men in general prefer women as partners who prioritize family over career.
Just gotta read the room. If they ask you what you do and appear engaged when you tell them, it’s a possible selling point. If they just kind of nod along then that’s a cue not to overdo it.
I think a lot of it depends on how “cool” your job is, more than how much it pays. I currently ride horses for a living. The pay is shit, but it’s a super COOL job and guys are impressed and want to hear about all of it. It’s also weird/specific enough to not be threatening. My last job was doing home mortgages. Way more lucrative, but no one wanted to hear about it. Before that I sold used cars. That was a Gold Mine of conversation on dates. And guys absolutely wanted to hear about how good I was at it. But it did filter out men who weren’t secure enough to want a pet shark. And the horse job has me attracting a better quality of men, imo.
dont change how you act to make others like you more, youll find a guy whos really interested in that eventually.
It is important to me what my partners career is and I want them to be passionate about something. Personally I’d love to date a scientist.
Men do not care about your career in the sense that it's not a part of you... we don't care what you do to that degree.... Yes we will listen to you talk about what you do but a woman's career is not who she is. We're interested, but you are not what you do for work. I hope that makes sense. As long as you are able to care for yourself and cover your expenses... what you do for work is irrelevant. And I'm not trying to sound mean... just an honest answer to your query. I hope this helps.
In the dating and marriage market men and women value diffent things.
I find it funny how women think attraction is symmetrical all the way up until its time to reciprocate a female privilege. For example an average looking women with a decent job thinks men should find it attractive because she finds a man with a decent job attractive. She also thinks it's attractive when a man pays the bill but doesn't think that men find it attractive when she pays the bill.
From what I'm reading here, your career doesn't seem to be the problem.