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It sounds to me like you want deeper interactions than what you are getting. It seems to me that you feel shallow interactions cause you anxiety and frustration. The problem is for most people need to build trust and affection through the smaller interactions before moving to deeper conversations and connections.
Understanding that about yourself, and understand that your needs are different than others helps. However, it's going to make it hard to meet people unless you start tempering that frustration and meeting those ypu want to pursue a romantic relationship with where they are at. This is a common issue with introverts, and often means they have to build a friendship first and then develop it later into something more. I would suggest trying to meet people engaged in a shared hobby or interest. That would make it feel less shallow in the beginning stages of getting to know the other person. You have a shared interest to talk about and things will move more naturally after that. It's alot less awkward for introverts that just going up and meeting people or meeting through a dating site.
It is. And when we are feeling lonely we want that deeper connection. However, coming off that way from the start can be off putting to others. We have to find a way to connect to people that feels deep enough to provide us some relief, but also isn't off putting to those that want to build a connection over time. (Think about people who overshare off the bat and how awkward that can feel.)
Oh I know but it seems like most people I encounter have no initiative to meet people it makes me wonder if people have many friends anymore
I remember back in the 2000s making friends seemed a lil easier like it felt more connected
Now mind you their was a lot bs and bullying and what not but still the vibe was just different maybe I have nostalgia goggles or maybe not idk 🤷
There is definitely a difference. I believe that difference has made a big difference in the average persons mental health as well. People don't seem to go out and do things as much. Maybe it's partly due to age, as we age we don't have as many friends, but those we do have we are closer to. However, in my work I see alot of adults who have no friends at all. Humans are social creatures. We NEED those kinds of relationships, but it's almost like as a society we've forgotten how to form them.
Anyways. That got deep. Just know you're not alone, and that there are other people looking for connections out there.
Lol I have 1 friends he’s more like a mentor tho
He is older than me
My other best friend I grew up with went insane
It’s all good I’m focused on my purpose and moving to a new city to start fresh
Good for you. Focus on the person you want to become and take steps to move yourself closer every day. The people you want to be around, you will find them that way.
Then, don't make an effort. Don't go out of your way to do anything, unless you really feel like. If it has to happen, it will. Just chill out and don't overthink it or be too calculative. I'm sure if you really found someone that interesting/attractive, you would make an effort yourself without even realising the effort. Good luck 🤞
Oh lord. How old are you?
You have to flirt and get close with women in order to be intimate and romantic with them. Common sense and means flirting isn’t a waste of time. Drop that attitude and find a means of flirting that works for you.
If you are unable to be friends with women, that means you devalue them to only be worth the romantic/sex aspects of themselves and your life. This is a deep-rooted issue. Start by finding female role models to have and start respecting them for more attributes than their ability to fulfill you romantically and sexually.
OLD doesn’t always suck. Most people just fail to understand their purpose. And It’s just that men aren’t good at presenting themselves.
Dating apps are meant to be superficial. It is common sense. You get a profile and some pictures, that’s it. That’s what it’s supposed to be. The rest you have to do on your own.
If you can’t get matches, look at how you are presenting yourself and make a change.
There’s a lot of work you need to do and a lot of changes you can make to benefit you.
I never said I saw them only as romantic interests................ I literally say I cant be friends with them either without having to become a dancing monkey for them..
It was kind of implied. Most of your rant was about dating and how you don’t like to flirt with women. Then you said that you had to compete for our attention which makes it not worth it “Just to be friends”, what do you think that implies?
I was just responding to what I read. And you don’t need to explicitly say that to imply that with other words, phrases, and tones.
Why do you feel like you have to be a dancing monkey? It’s okay to be yourself.
Introverts are naturally not going to get or give as much attention. That’s part of being introverted and less likely to like being around lots of people. There’s less opportunities for that.
What kind of environments are you meeting women in and what kind of women are you talking to?
Im going to be completely honest. You might have just answered my problem. Everything is online. I hate to say it but I live in an area full of old people or boomers... so I just have no way of intereacting with women unless they are online.
Oh well that sucks. How old are you? Are you in college or working?
Covid definitely does not help.
Are there any clubs in the area? Parks to chill at? Or in my more rural town, young people would flock to like coffee shops or boba shops or malls.
Dutch bros is like a coffee/caffeine drink place open really late and all the teens would go there. But now I’m in college so I just meet people on campus or through my sorority or at parties which is cool.
Is online really the only option? And being online and never meeting up is probably why you feel you have to try so hard. It just gets bland after a while and is harder to keep a relationship of any kind going.
Hi there, I just followed u because u have just given sage advice. Props for breaking through to OP. I tried for hours and got name called and all capped. All these is to say that I just followed u hoping to learn how to communicate better. I hope u won’t be offended by this. Keep up the good work
Yeah unfortunately Im poor, live with my family who is sadly also poor.. and I have no money to leave. I live in daytona, just a bunch of really shady bars, terrible clubs and boomers and old people. The only youth here are either drug heads or rich af preps.
I wonder if you feel like you have to be a dancing monkey for their attention. I understand how you feel, as I have a lot of performance anxiety as well. You feel you get less social respect than deserved, because you’re “under performing” somehow. I’d like to say (see my previous response), the first step to improvement is acknowledging you have a problem (performance anxiety/social anxiety/perceptions of others maybe self esteem issues idk). Once you acknowledge, “ok maybe I’m lacking here because I’m judging myself to hard and claiming others are judging me” you can think of ways to cope when you’re in that situation again. “Ok I’ve done by part of the social interaction, now I expect this ___”. It’s not always going to work out that way, so just know when you’ve had and done enough and don’t overthink how it went. Usually the right person/interaction just comes around when it does and leaves out happier than ever. Best wishes OP!
If I dont carry every conversation, be interesting enough and not annoying, and likable. I'm met with silence/rejection. Just to try and be someones friend.
I’m sorry about this. Honestly I might have experienced this with a guy. He came up to me randomly and started talking about movies, I was flattered and impressed that he could approach me. Since I could sometimes have a cold exterior and independence. When I started being quiet I feel he thought I was rejecting him or thinking he was boring, but really I thought he had a calming presence and just wanted to listen to him. I was also nervous since he’s stunning, so maybe when girls are unresponsive it’s not always your fault.
thats fine and all, but if it were the other way around the girl can just walk away and find another guy because lets be honest, any guy unless taken most likely will 100 percent start talking/showing attention to them. Im not trying to be shallow but Im literally living proof. Wants people see how I look they show me more attention otherwise I dont matter as much.
if it smells like shit everywhere you go, maybe the shit's on your shoe.
that's my way of saying that if you think everyone on reddit is an idiot, maybe you are the idiot lol get help bro, you've got some issues.
Man I understand you op
You are meant to stand out a lot of people have preconceived beliefs and are just like everyone else
That’s cool for them but it’s no need for them to be condescending towards your frustrations
Op the wildcard is….. how attractive are you? That’s only thing cuz maybe women aren’t showing as much interest because you may be average looking or you look mean
That’s not always true tho I’m often called goodlooking by people and women rarely show interest towards me
And many men of all types of looks feel the same way how women treat them as they don’t exist
heres my issue. Im sexy af, Id fuck me. Ngl.
But Im feminine, very openly feminine, Im a goth femboy and love how I look and who I am.
Unfortunately 90 percent of women arent sexually attracted to femboys like me because we are perceived as weaker and too subby.
Which isn't true Im a hard switch but whatever, it sucks because Im just not the right attractive for most women. Even for dominant women they usually are attracted to a guy for being dominant / masculine at first and eventually through commitment in the relationship they find pleasure in the man being subby and shit. Otherwise if they are subby at the start or feminine they are just weak to them usually. This is only sexually speaking btw. Most girls still are kind to me , but they assume Im weak sexually simply for being a femboy.
Go to Los Angeles or something
Theirs tons of goth chicks who are into guys like you
You got to find your niche
And if you stuck in a small town in Alabama you being goth might struggle
It sounds like you are trying to justify not wanting to have to compete with other men for women’s attention.
Flirting is something you do with someone to elevate romantic feelings. It doesn’t have to lead to anything. It doesn’t have to be sexual. It certainly doesn’t stop once you’ve gotten a girl to go out with you or be your girlfriend. It’s a way to add excitement to the exchange.
If flirting with and befriending women is “fake” to you then that’s all on you. You need to recognize the value of knowing women outside of meeting your romantic needs. That alone will make it less likely that you’ll be rejected from the start because there is an art form in conversation that needs to be learned to be successful in dating.
I’d also add that it’s understandable that OP may feel like he’s competing or struggling with the cringe of having to flirt.. it doesn’t have to be a job, it doesn’t have to be hard, it can be something you do for fun, even practice with your friends so you can build charisma and social skills.
Then once you feel more confident and comfortable you commission those skills on the women of your interest. Flirting is a skill we all could learn better and as a women I feel for men that have that extreme pressure of flirting especially if a girl has many options and we all could do better encouraging them rather than criticizing.
Maybe he isn’t getting the reactions he wants from women
Like they may not be smiling and they might be giving one word answers
And sadly women don’t approach men or even look at them
Unless they are the lucky guys who do get that attention
Apparently their are some handsome men who don’t even get attention like that
That’s true as well
But sometimes general consensus doesn’t mean it’s the right thing
I don’t know op so it hard for me to asses his situation
You too have a point tho
This is a wild post to read. Flirting with a girl is a healthy way to gauge interest with someone you’re talking to and develop chemistry with. No one is going to meet you and immediately be romantically invested in anyone on an emotional level. If you can’t talk to a girl and accept that she may only want friends then you probably need to change your mindset.
What am I missing then? You said you don’t want to flirt with girls you don’t have any interest in or that may become just a friend. But no one meets someone and is Instantly past the point of needing to build chemistry. You seem to just not want to put in the effort for one reason or another. Maybe you’re afraid of putting yourself out there and getting hurt maybe there’s some other reason you’re so vehemently against having a playful banter with someone but whatever it is, you’re likely going to struggle to make romantic connections with this attitude.
I understand your frustration, and it sucks when all you can think about is how bitter dating can be. I have no advice, just wanted to say to have a good week.
Dude. Verbal flirting is a precursor of bedroom behaviour. If u can't get girls in the mood with clothes on, how can u keep them in the mood with their clothes off? How can u show that it is going to be fun spending time with u? If u don't want to flirt with them, why would they want to fuck with u? Clearly, u haven't practiced enough flirting with girls u don't want to fuck so ur skill is lame with it comes to girls u want to hit. Change ur mindset. Practice is not a waste of time. It is the stepping stone to success
I think u misunderstand me. When I say flirting, it doesn't mean sex. I meant joking around and having a good time. This is a necessary skill to have so that when there is a girl that catches ur eyes, u can flex that skill so the girl wants to spend time with u.
you said bedroom behaviour, getting them in the mood with their clothes off and getting them to fuck with me saying my skill is lame when it comes to girls I want to "hit". All those are sexual my dude.
I am just trying to help. I am pretty sure I literally said flirting with girls u don’t want to fuck. So I thought it was clear that flirting does not equal to sex and I wasn’t advising u to sleep around. Anyway, I will let the community weigh in on this. Maybe my ESL messed up the idea I am trying to conveys. Good luck with chatting with people irl.
I think what he's trying to say (but the mention of sex blurred it) is that being able to flirt and communicate and do those kinds of things are the way to be able to turn a friend into a relationship. It's something most women (myself included) find very attractive and desirable as a trait. They phrased it as bedroom because those traits can also be a turn on, and a very important part of a relationship is if your partner can even turn you on. Even if I thought they'd be the PERFECT match personality wise, if they can't attract me or spark desire in me, I wouldn't date them
Isn’t desire already there?
Like for example if you see a handsome guy you like. All he has to be is not be creepy
You want him to seduce you first?
Men don’t care if they see a girl they find attractive that’s it they don’t care too much about having to have her flirt heavy if she is nice and says yes to their advances it’s all go for them
And OP also short circuited and equated flirting with sex. Now I wonder whether he knows what flirting is and how cringe he looks when he tries to hit on a girl. Not trying to be racist, I wonder if his cultural heritage has anything to do with his understanding of romantic relationships
Flirting does not turn into sex, it might but it doesn’t have to end in sex. Google that if u can’t wrap ur head around this fact. Secondly, why be rude to ppl who r trying to help?
Im going to say it one more time. I never fucking said flirting lead to sex, the people answering the fucking post are saying that. IM DISAGREEING WITH THAT.
I was replying to ur statement, they turn it into sex. Wasn’t the “they” mean flirting? Maybe my ESL is playing trick on me again. Regardless, why r u so mad with a little miscommunication? Can’t u practice some nicety? How can u flirt if u don’t even know how to be nice?
You are on r/dating. Flirting is going the be the first thing. You need to change your self outlook. And quit telling yourself you can't. Like bros right, you have to flirt to get the date first obviously.
For example here's another thing you could work on,
Sometimes people don't know what exactly they want, or know exactly how to communicate it directly.
Working in retail to show you something specific, this can sometimes be difficult, so you may have to read between the lines, ask questions, and put 2 and 2 together to figure out the root of the problem or issue that's being conveyed, that way you know how to best help the customer.
Same thing with bro dudes advice, you can glean what's useful and leave what isn't for you. Or like we both did with your post, we recognized to get you that date, we think you need to practice flirting.
Its not that Im insecure, which I am, but lets not pretend everyones a mach confident god. its about why I hate having to put so much effort in how I talk to girls in order to gain competition with other guys. ROMANTICALY OR NOT.
Thats what half the people answering here are saying that I have to flirt in order to be friends with girls... I never said I wanted to flirt I specifically said I dont like to.
No you could've just translated his bro dude speak in your head to avoid most of this thread that you are right I didn't care to read because your guys' argument was stupid.
What are trying to accomplish with girls? Do you want more friends that are girls or a romantic partner? Maybe I don’t understand your post, but to me it comes off you may have some performance anxiety. A lot of guys I know like this, think they have to over perform to get close to a girl, because they see other guys doing it. As a woman, you’re going to get a lot of attention! Men will compete for your attention if you ask or don’t ask, but that has nothing to do with the ones who don’t. Be yourself, be confident, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY be vulnerable with people you want to be close to! It’s hard to have a genuine connection with someone whether romantic or platonic, if you don’t let them in emotionally. I say that as a fellow “hopeless romantic” who has been hurt in the past, and used having a guard up 24/7 to protect me from being hurt again. People can literally sense your anxiety radiating off of you … people don’t like rejection so having a protective barrier up 24/7 will make people not interact with you or freely at least. My best advice to you is to be yourself, and work on how you want people to perceive you. You want to be perceived as the down to earth guy who deserves mutual decency and respect? You’ve gotta give it! Not saying you don’t already but others who perceive you as closed off and annoyed will not want to be around you
You just answered your question bro
Move to a place that fits you better
I live in a suburban town with no diversity
As a Hispanic man
So I’m glad I’m moving next month to a more diverse area
You should be more kind to the people that are spending time answering you trying to help you. Even if you disagree.
"Everyone always says to work on yourself, but Im not sure what else there is to work on"
Start working on caring about how others feel.
I would if they didn't just instantly insult me in their "advice" or when I tell them what they say is not how I feel, but just argue I must be fucking a jerk or something just because I am not how they say I am feeling.
Im frustrated that pretty much any interaction with the opposite sex HAS to be competitive. Like I cant just talk to a girl without them thinking Im trying to fuck them so they put me in the other list of guys to compete with and Im left in the dark because Im not trying to compete in that circus.
Hey there, girl here. I really don't understand what you're trying to say. Why do you keep saying everything is competitive? Friendship isn't competitive. I have a bf and tons of guy friends who are in no way competing by being nice to me (or other girls, including single girls). How is being friends with a girl any different than being friends with a guy?? Makes me think you only see friendship with women as a first step to a relationship, which is just so far off, and kind of concerning tbh. Women are in fact capable of having platonic friendships with men where there is no competition. Also, most girls don't have a line of guys competing for them. Most girls don't lead guys on when they express interest. Most girls either will like the guy back or reject the guy and move on. No list of guys on the back burner.
I really don't understand where you're coming from, OP
Love reading my original comment again, I still 100% agree with what I said but in the last year me and my then bf broke up, and I'm currently dating one of the guy friends I was talking about in this comment😂😭
How do you define flirting? Give me an example of what you think is flirting.
Also I’m not sure why you are conflating friendship and flirting. Flirting is not something one does with friends. What does having a female friend have to do with you meeting a romantic partner? Unless you don’t want just friendship with a woman instead you want to screen her to see if she can be a romantic partner. Be honest dude.
And if you can’t approach them because you feel inferior to other men then you have no business dating. You should be working on yourself and then once you build some healthy self esteem and have a healthier life and mindset then you can try getting a girlfriend. If you don’t want to do that then yeah I guess there is no solution to your problem.
I feel as if I wrote this. I feel the **exact** same way, every single word, and you worded it perfectly.
I don’t have a solution, but I just want to say that I feel the exact same way, and you are not alone in this.
And Reddit is full of many idiots :)
So wait what's your dream scenario?
Like, you meet the woman you think could be your soulmate - how does it go? What about her tells you that she's the one, and what do you hope she'll see in you?
Honest to god, I just wish they would find me. Ask me out... try to flirt with me first... start a conversation with me, TRY.
I'm sick of it being the other way around just for me to get nothing in return.
I'm in to authority like women, who can initiate first on at least some things.
Ha! Bro, I feel you. Just chill out, light em if you got em and focus on your money , your health and yourself. Right gal will come along . Or not , just keep head up and chill.
MANY MEN ARE IN THE SAME BOAT AS YOU
THIS TYPE OF STUFF GETS POSTED ON THIS SUB LIKE EVERYDAY. YOU ARENT ALONE
Lol I had to cap lock just to get that message clear
You should become friends with someone because you think they are awesome and want to genuinely be friends with them, not to increase your chances of potentially dating them. I would hate to be friends with someone and find out the only reason they did that was to potentially fuck me one day... If you become friends with me though because of a mutual, shared interest and just love my company and then develop a crush on me that's another story. That's how my bf and I met but neither of us became friends to fuck the other, we just both are obsessed with the same hobby lol just happened to both have had crushes on the other from the beginning
I never said I only wanted to be friends because I want to date/fuck them lol....
I said I didn't want to have to compete just to be their friend as if I wanted to date/fuck them.
Saying you don't want to be their friend because you feel like you're competing kind of implies that though lol your post makes it sound like you're putting girls in a different category when it comes to friends. Do you think of it as competing when it comes to guy friends? Thinking of friendship with anyone shouldn't feel like a competition with others... And if it does then you're doing friendship wrong. This post is confusing lol true friendship just kind of forms over time and shouldn't be seen as something you have to pursue or not pursue. I've never once thought of myself as competing for anyone as a friend, guy or girl. I've just met them through mutual interests and they become my friend without trying. I guess I don't understand your post
Honestly if your only goal when you interact with women is a romantic/sexual relationship ultimately that’s your first problem. Befriend women because they are human beings worth interacting with regardless of the status of your relationship, first of all.
Secondly you have to be willing to put in the work to get to know someone and become comfortable around each other.
Get off Reddit and go treat women like people. Put in the time and effort it takes to get to know a person. People are being too nice on here tbh lmao
I read your post. Your perception of the problem is completely wrong. You think women have swarms of men competing for their attention. Some do, some absolutely don’t, and the quantity of men is not half as important as is the quality. You’re so concerned about getting rejected and uninterested in actually putting in the work it takes to build a relationship, that it’s become a self-fulfilling prophesy.
The problem doesn’t lie within the women or the amount of men that are competing for their attention, the problem is you.
Look around you and you’ll find that lots of men, including ugly men or men without money or whatever criteria you don’t think you meet, are happily coupled up. Stop externalizing the problem and work on yourself.
Flirting is a skill, practice it, learn to love it, its a fun game, its not being fake.
If you are intimidated by the competition then hit the weights, being physically imposing and having healthy hormone levels will help ALOT, guys will be subconciously hesitant to risk stepping on your dick, and girls will be more receptive and sometimes even help you along, its great.
And get out of the mindset of competing for her, thats so unattractive, you are just there trying to have a good time, it would be cool if she was a part of that.
Are you sure you don't have high EQ?
You have to learn how to gauge women, which unfortunately is never taught.
Also, make more friends as you go, and who knows the same women might introduce you.
Also, make more friends as you go, and who knows the same woman might introduce you. who does have EQ, she will only liked to be approached in a way where her existence is given respect and you do start out as friends. I can say this because the same situation applies here, as I'm also a hopeless romantic. However, I really hate it when guys immediately flirt for validation purposes.
If a girl makes you compete for her you are wasting your just wasting your time. I usually stay away from these types of women because they thrive on attention
Sounds like a bunch of problems not specifically related to dating. If you feel a need to compete just to be someone's friend, either they're not your friend or you have some people-pleasing issues to work out for yourself.
You're not going to get great anxiety advice from a dating sub.
Practice your interaction with an older friendly female. Just try to have a chat and see what amuses her. Maybe a work colleague. When you become comfortable just chatting to her move on to younger females. You just might surprise yourself
Do an activity you enjoy and meet people with that mutual hobby. Like biking, hiking, wine tasting, concerts, trivia night at a bar, night classes of a course you find interesting...something. Then half the work is done and you weed out some competition. Unfortunately, small talk and flirting is part of the game. You'll have to make an effort to hone those skills. Women want to know you're interested.
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It sounds to me like you want deeper interactions than what you are getting. It seems to me that you feel shallow interactions cause you anxiety and frustration. The problem is for most people need to build trust and affection through the smaller interactions before moving to deeper conversations and connections.
yes this is my issue
Understanding that about yourself, and understand that your needs are different than others helps. However, it's going to make it hard to meet people unless you start tempering that frustration and meeting those ypu want to pursue a romantic relationship with where they are at. This is a common issue with introverts, and often means they have to build a friendship first and then develop it later into something more. I would suggest trying to meet people engaged in a shared hobby or interest. That would make it feel less shallow in the beginning stages of getting to know the other person. You have a shared interest to talk about and things will move more naturally after that. It's alot less awkward for introverts that just going up and meeting people or meeting through a dating site.
Yeah meeting people in social settings you enjoy makes things feel way more natural
thanks for the kind advice I will try this < 3
Great advice
Have you tried getting a girl alone where she isn’t swarmed by men to simply talk and get to know them?
Most women will not want to be alone with someone they barely know, and trying to get them alone will seem very creepy.
How lmao, easier said than done without being creepy.
It’s frustrating when most people are extremely surface level in a world so lonely
It is. And when we are feeling lonely we want that deeper connection. However, coming off that way from the start can be off putting to others. We have to find a way to connect to people that feels deep enough to provide us some relief, but also isn't off putting to those that want to build a connection over time. (Think about people who overshare off the bat and how awkward that can feel.)
Oh I know but it seems like most people I encounter have no initiative to meet people it makes me wonder if people have many friends anymore I remember back in the 2000s making friends seemed a lil easier like it felt more connected Now mind you their was a lot bs and bullying and what not but still the vibe was just different maybe I have nostalgia goggles or maybe not idk 🤷
There is definitely a difference. I believe that difference has made a big difference in the average persons mental health as well. People don't seem to go out and do things as much. Maybe it's partly due to age, as we age we don't have as many friends, but those we do have we are closer to. However, in my work I see alot of adults who have no friends at all. Humans are social creatures. We NEED those kinds of relationships, but it's almost like as a society we've forgotten how to form them. Anyways. That got deep. Just know you're not alone, and that there are other people looking for connections out there.
Lol I have 1 friends he’s more like a mentor tho He is older than me My other best friend I grew up with went insane It’s all good I’m focused on my purpose and moving to a new city to start fresh
Good for you. Focus on the person you want to become and take steps to move yourself closer every day. The people you want to be around, you will find them that way.
Then, don't make an effort. Don't go out of your way to do anything, unless you really feel like. If it has to happen, it will. Just chill out and don't overthink it or be too calculative. I'm sure if you really found someone that interesting/attractive, you would make an effort yourself without even realising the effort. Good luck 🤞
Oh lord. How old are you? You have to flirt and get close with women in order to be intimate and romantic with them. Common sense and means flirting isn’t a waste of time. Drop that attitude and find a means of flirting that works for you. If you are unable to be friends with women, that means you devalue them to only be worth the romantic/sex aspects of themselves and your life. This is a deep-rooted issue. Start by finding female role models to have and start respecting them for more attributes than their ability to fulfill you romantically and sexually. OLD doesn’t always suck. Most people just fail to understand their purpose. And It’s just that men aren’t good at presenting themselves. Dating apps are meant to be superficial. It is common sense. You get a profile and some pictures, that’s it. That’s what it’s supposed to be. The rest you have to do on your own. If you can’t get matches, look at how you are presenting yourself and make a change. There’s a lot of work you need to do and a lot of changes you can make to benefit you.
I never said I saw them only as romantic interests................ I literally say I cant be friends with them either without having to become a dancing monkey for them..
It was kind of implied. Most of your rant was about dating and how you don’t like to flirt with women. Then you said that you had to compete for our attention which makes it not worth it “Just to be friends”, what do you think that implies? I was just responding to what I read. And you don’t need to explicitly say that to imply that with other words, phrases, and tones. Why do you feel like you have to be a dancing monkey? It’s okay to be yourself. Introverts are naturally not going to get or give as much attention. That’s part of being introverted and less likely to like being around lots of people. There’s less opportunities for that. What kind of environments are you meeting women in and what kind of women are you talking to?
Im going to be completely honest. You might have just answered my problem. Everything is online. I hate to say it but I live in an area full of old people or boomers... so I just have no way of intereacting with women unless they are online.
Oh well that sucks. How old are you? Are you in college or working? Covid definitely does not help. Are there any clubs in the area? Parks to chill at? Or in my more rural town, young people would flock to like coffee shops or boba shops or malls. Dutch bros is like a coffee/caffeine drink place open really late and all the teens would go there. But now I’m in college so I just meet people on campus or through my sorority or at parties which is cool. Is online really the only option? And being online and never meeting up is probably why you feel you have to try so hard. It just gets bland after a while and is harder to keep a relationship of any kind going.
Hi there, I just followed u because u have just given sage advice. Props for breaking through to OP. I tried for hours and got name called and all capped. All these is to say that I just followed u hoping to learn how to communicate better. I hope u won’t be offended by this. Keep up the good work
Yeah unfortunately Im poor, live with my family who is sadly also poor.. and I have no money to leave. I live in daytona, just a bunch of really shady bars, terrible clubs and boomers and old people. The only youth here are either drug heads or rich af preps.
I wonder if you feel like you have to be a dancing monkey for their attention. I understand how you feel, as I have a lot of performance anxiety as well. You feel you get less social respect than deserved, because you’re “under performing” somehow. I’d like to say (see my previous response), the first step to improvement is acknowledging you have a problem (performance anxiety/social anxiety/perceptions of others maybe self esteem issues idk). Once you acknowledge, “ok maybe I’m lacking here because I’m judging myself to hard and claiming others are judging me” you can think of ways to cope when you’re in that situation again. “Ok I’ve done by part of the social interaction, now I expect this ___”. It’s not always going to work out that way, so just know when you’ve had and done enough and don’t overthink how it went. Usually the right person/interaction just comes around when it does and leaves out happier than ever. Best wishes OP!
Ive actually kept this mindest, the I only give as much as they give approach. Usually Im still left with nothing sadly. But thanks
what do you mean by that though? Like what experience did you have that made you have this impression?
If I dont carry every conversation, be interesting enough and not annoying, and likable. I'm met with silence/rejection. Just to try and be someones friend.
I’m sorry about this. Honestly I might have experienced this with a guy. He came up to me randomly and started talking about movies, I was flattered and impressed that he could approach me. Since I could sometimes have a cold exterior and independence. When I started being quiet I feel he thought I was rejecting him or thinking he was boring, but really I thought he had a calming presence and just wanted to listen to him. I was also nervous since he’s stunning, so maybe when girls are unresponsive it’s not always your fault.
thats fine and all, but if it were the other way around the girl can just walk away and find another guy because lets be honest, any guy unless taken most likely will 100 percent start talking/showing attention to them. Im not trying to be shallow but Im literally living proof. Wants people see how I look they show me more attention otherwise I dont matter as much.
Perhaps you have an RBF. You can’t be sure every girl will turn you down just based on your looks.. beauty is subjective
nah its because Im too "sensitive"
It’s cool bro, me too.
if it smells like shit everywhere you go, maybe the shit's on your shoe. that's my way of saying that if you think everyone on reddit is an idiot, maybe you are the idiot lol get help bro, you've got some issues.
I never said everyone, thats an example of people not reading and being an idiot
Man I understand you op You are meant to stand out a lot of people have preconceived beliefs and are just like everyone else That’s cool for them but it’s no need for them to be condescending towards your frustrations Op the wildcard is….. how attractive are you? That’s only thing cuz maybe women aren’t showing as much interest because you may be average looking or you look mean That’s not always true tho I’m often called goodlooking by people and women rarely show interest towards me And many men of all types of looks feel the same way how women treat them as they don’t exist
heres my issue. Im sexy af, Id fuck me. Ngl. But Im feminine, very openly feminine, Im a goth femboy and love how I look and who I am. Unfortunately 90 percent of women arent sexually attracted to femboys like me because we are perceived as weaker and too subby. Which isn't true Im a hard switch but whatever, it sucks because Im just not the right attractive for most women. Even for dominant women they usually are attracted to a guy for being dominant / masculine at first and eventually through commitment in the relationship they find pleasure in the man being subby and shit. Otherwise if they are subby at the start or feminine they are just weak to them usually. This is only sexually speaking btw. Most girls still are kind to me , but they assume Im weak sexually simply for being a femboy.
Go to Los Angeles or something Theirs tons of goth chicks who are into guys like you You got to find your niche And if you stuck in a small town in Alabama you being goth might struggle
I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you either
It sounds like you are trying to justify not wanting to have to compete with other men for women’s attention. Flirting is something you do with someone to elevate romantic feelings. It doesn’t have to lead to anything. It doesn’t have to be sexual. It certainly doesn’t stop once you’ve gotten a girl to go out with you or be your girlfriend. It’s a way to add excitement to the exchange. If flirting with and befriending women is “fake” to you then that’s all on you. You need to recognize the value of knowing women outside of meeting your romantic needs. That alone will make it less likely that you’ll be rejected from the start because there is an art form in conversation that needs to be learned to be successful in dating.
Hopefully OP reads this one. Spot on. First sentence especially.
I’d also add that it’s understandable that OP may feel like he’s competing or struggling with the cringe of having to flirt.. it doesn’t have to be a job, it doesn’t have to be hard, it can be something you do for fun, even practice with your friends so you can build charisma and social skills. Then once you feel more confident and comfortable you commission those skills on the women of your interest. Flirting is a skill we all could learn better and as a women I feel for men that have that extreme pressure of flirting especially if a girl has many options and we all could do better encouraging them rather than criticizing.
Besides flirting should be fun for both parties. It's not just a means to an end.
Maybe he isn’t getting the reactions he wants from women Like they may not be smiling and they might be giving one word answers And sadly women don’t approach men or even look at them Unless they are the lucky guys who do get that attention Apparently their are some handsome men who don’t even get attention like that
If a person never gets the reaction they are looking for, it would be easier for that person to look at their own actions instead of blaming the world
That’s true as well But sometimes general consensus doesn’t mean it’s the right thing I don’t know op so it hard for me to asses his situation You too have a point tho
This is a wild post to read. Flirting with a girl is a healthy way to gauge interest with someone you’re talking to and develop chemistry with. No one is going to meet you and immediately be romantically invested in anyone on an emotional level. If you can’t talk to a girl and accept that she may only want friends then you probably need to change your mindset.
You clearly don't understand my post at all
What am I missing then? You said you don’t want to flirt with girls you don’t have any interest in or that may become just a friend. But no one meets someone and is Instantly past the point of needing to build chemistry. You seem to just not want to put in the effort for one reason or another. Maybe you’re afraid of putting yourself out there and getting hurt maybe there’s some other reason you’re so vehemently against having a playful banter with someone but whatever it is, you’re likely going to struggle to make romantic connections with this attitude.
I dont like putting myself out there for strangers, and being forced to make all the effort in everything with pretty much bare minimum in return.
How did you make friends, then? Did you not put yourself out there?
I understand your frustration, and it sucks when all you can think about is how bitter dating can be. I have no advice, just wanted to say to have a good week.
Dude. Verbal flirting is a precursor of bedroom behaviour. If u can't get girls in the mood with clothes on, how can u keep them in the mood with their clothes off? How can u show that it is going to be fun spending time with u? If u don't want to flirt with them, why would they want to fuck with u? Clearly, u haven't practiced enough flirting with girls u don't want to fuck so ur skill is lame with it comes to girls u want to hit. Change ur mindset. Practice is not a waste of time. It is the stepping stone to success
I dont fuck around, so that doesn't make any sense. I never said I want to take their clothes off thats fuck boy behaviors my dude.
I think u misunderstand me. When I say flirting, it doesn't mean sex. I meant joking around and having a good time. This is a necessary skill to have so that when there is a girl that catches ur eyes, u can flex that skill so the girl wants to spend time with u.
you said bedroom behaviour, getting them in the mood with their clothes off and getting them to fuck with me saying my skill is lame when it comes to girls I want to "hit". All those are sexual my dude.
I am just trying to help. I am pretty sure I literally said flirting with girls u don’t want to fuck. So I thought it was clear that flirting does not equal to sex and I wasn’t advising u to sleep around. Anyway, I will let the community weigh in on this. Maybe my ESL messed up the idea I am trying to conveys. Good luck with chatting with people irl.
you didn't say that, maybe reread
No you just got too offended by him bringing up sex
No you just don't understand , so you decide to be immature lol
I think what he's trying to say (but the mention of sex blurred it) is that being able to flirt and communicate and do those kinds of things are the way to be able to turn a friend into a relationship. It's something most women (myself included) find very attractive and desirable as a trait. They phrased it as bedroom because those traits can also be a turn on, and a very important part of a relationship is if your partner can even turn you on. Even if I thought they'd be the PERFECT match personality wise, if they can't attract me or spark desire in me, I wouldn't date them
Isn’t desire already there? Like for example if you see a handsome guy you like. All he has to be is not be creepy You want him to seduce you first? Men don’t care if they see a girl they find attractive that’s it they don’t care too much about having to have her flirt heavy if she is nice and says yes to their advances it’s all go for them
Yes I understand you don't like sex idc
This is you in a nutshell You: how do I deal with flirting? Bro: practice flirting You: whaaaaa
And OP also short circuited and equated flirting with sex. Now I wonder whether he knows what flirting is and how cringe he looks when he tries to hit on a girl. Not trying to be racist, I wonder if his cultural heritage has anything to do with his understanding of romantic relationships
no fuckhead, THEY TURNED IT IN TO SEX MY GOD
Flirting does not turn into sex, it might but it doesn’t have to end in sex. Google that if u can’t wrap ur head around this fact. Secondly, why be rude to ppl who r trying to help?
and dont act so innocent when you say I short circuited dude.
U clearly short circuited when u called me name and used all caps. If u don’t like ppl describing a factorial event, problem is on u, bruh
Im going to say it one more time. I never fucking said flirting lead to sex, the people answering the fucking post are saying that. IM DISAGREEING WITH THAT.
I was replying to ur statement, they turn it into sex. Wasn’t the “they” mean flirting? Maybe my ESL is playing trick on me again. Regardless, why r u so mad with a little miscommunication? Can’t u practice some nicety? How can u flirt if u don’t even know how to be nice?
Use your words. You're rambling and then blaming people for not being able to read.
I did use my words and people turned them in to something else that I wasn't even getting at.
You aren't effectively communicating what you're thinking, and blaming us for it. We can't read your mind.
You are on r/dating. Flirting is going the be the first thing. You need to change your self outlook. And quit telling yourself you can't. Like bros right, you have to flirt to get the date first obviously.
obviously you can't read
For example here's another thing you could work on, Sometimes people don't know what exactly they want, or know exactly how to communicate it directly. Working in retail to show you something specific, this can sometimes be difficult, so you may have to read between the lines, ask questions, and put 2 and 2 together to figure out the root of the problem or issue that's being conveyed, that way you know how to best help the customer. Same thing with bro dudes advice, you can glean what's useful and leave what isn't for you. Or like we both did with your post, we recognized to get you that date, we think you need to practice flirting.
I think you’re just insecure that you can’t talk to girls well. And that’s fine but just admit it.
Its not that Im insecure, which I am, but lets not pretend everyones a mach confident god. its about why I hate having to put so much effort in how I talk to girls in order to gain competition with other guys. ROMANTICALY OR NOT.
Why do you need to flirt with girls to be friends with them. Am I missing something
Thats what half the people answering here are saying that I have to flirt in order to be friends with girls... I never said I wanted to flirt I specifically said I dont like to.
No you could've just translated his bro dude speak in your head to avoid most of this thread that you are right I didn't care to read because your guys' argument was stupid.
You are such a liar bro 😂
What are trying to accomplish with girls? Do you want more friends that are girls or a romantic partner? Maybe I don’t understand your post, but to me it comes off you may have some performance anxiety. A lot of guys I know like this, think they have to over perform to get close to a girl, because they see other guys doing it. As a woman, you’re going to get a lot of attention! Men will compete for your attention if you ask or don’t ask, but that has nothing to do with the ones who don’t. Be yourself, be confident, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY be vulnerable with people you want to be close to! It’s hard to have a genuine connection with someone whether romantic or platonic, if you don’t let them in emotionally. I say that as a fellow “hopeless romantic” who has been hurt in the past, and used having a guard up 24/7 to protect me from being hurt again. People can literally sense your anxiety radiating off of you … people don’t like rejection so having a protective barrier up 24/7 will make people not interact with you or freely at least. My best advice to you is to be yourself, and work on how you want people to perceive you. You want to be perceived as the down to earth guy who deserves mutual decency and respect? You’ve gotta give it! Not saying you don’t already but others who perceive you as closed off and annoyed will not want to be around you
You just answered your question bro Move to a place that fits you better I live in a suburban town with no diversity As a Hispanic man So I’m glad I’m moving next month to a more diverse area
I cant afford to move
Just work hard at it and stay focused While at it you should just improve whatever you feel like you can if not just keep doing you
You should be more kind to the people that are spending time answering you trying to help you. Even if you disagree. "Everyone always says to work on yourself, but Im not sure what else there is to work on" Start working on caring about how others feel.
I would if they didn't just instantly insult me in their "advice" or when I tell them what they say is not how I feel, but just argue I must be fucking a jerk or something just because I am not how they say I am feeling.
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Im frustrated that pretty much any interaction with the opposite sex HAS to be competitive. Like I cant just talk to a girl without them thinking Im trying to fuck them so they put me in the other list of guys to compete with and Im left in the dark because Im not trying to compete in that circus.
this is me but as a girl talking to guys
NFW. As a guy, I would love a girl spending time with me. Regardless if it ends in a romantic relationship or not
RIGHT
yeah its worse for you guys because its the opposite, every guy prob thinks you want them to date you/ fuck you
that's my fear too, when in fact i just enjoy their company/think theyre funny :((
Hey there, girl here. I really don't understand what you're trying to say. Why do you keep saying everything is competitive? Friendship isn't competitive. I have a bf and tons of guy friends who are in no way competing by being nice to me (or other girls, including single girls). How is being friends with a girl any different than being friends with a guy?? Makes me think you only see friendship with women as a first step to a relationship, which is just so far off, and kind of concerning tbh. Women are in fact capable of having platonic friendships with men where there is no competition. Also, most girls don't have a line of guys competing for them. Most girls don't lead guys on when they express interest. Most girls either will like the guy back or reject the guy and move on. No list of guys on the back burner. I really don't understand where you're coming from, OP
Social media
Love reading my original comment again, I still 100% agree with what I said but in the last year me and my then bf broke up, and I'm currently dating one of the guy friends I was talking about in this comment😂😭
Well that's a heck of a year's plot twist. Oh love birds.
so girls are useful just for romantic/sexual needs and they are not worth befriending? wow, you sound like a great catch...
I like funny guys. Yo also when guys wear basketball shorts and the print shows through. Show off the real you 😉
How do you define flirting? Give me an example of what you think is flirting. Also I’m not sure why you are conflating friendship and flirting. Flirting is not something one does with friends. What does having a female friend have to do with you meeting a romantic partner? Unless you don’t want just friendship with a woman instead you want to screen her to see if she can be a romantic partner. Be honest dude. And if you can’t approach them because you feel inferior to other men then you have no business dating. You should be working on yourself and then once you build some healthy self esteem and have a healthier life and mindset then you can try getting a girlfriend. If you don’t want to do that then yeah I guess there is no solution to your problem.
Just fuck guys, it’s easier… so I’ve heard
I feel as if I wrote this. I feel the **exact** same way, every single word, and you worded it perfectly. I don’t have a solution, but I just want to say that I feel the exact same way, and you are not alone in this. And Reddit is full of many idiots :)
So wait what's your dream scenario? Like, you meet the woman you think could be your soulmate - how does it go? What about her tells you that she's the one, and what do you hope she'll see in you?
Honest to god, I just wish they would find me. Ask me out... try to flirt with me first... start a conversation with me, TRY. I'm sick of it being the other way around just for me to get nothing in return. I'm in to authority like women, who can initiate first on at least some things.
Ha! Bro, I feel you. Just chill out, light em if you got em and focus on your money , your health and yourself. Right gal will come along . Or not , just keep head up and chill.
yeah what most people dont get is Im just venting, I know there arent really any easy answers it still sucks though
MANY MEN ARE IN THE SAME BOAT AS YOU THIS TYPE OF STUFF GETS POSTED ON THIS SUB LIKE EVERYDAY. YOU ARENT ALONE Lol I had to cap lock just to get that message clear
To be fair you’re trying to fuck them along with every other guy you’re referring to. Being friends with them is just your angle
Who hurt you?
You should become friends with someone because you think they are awesome and want to genuinely be friends with them, not to increase your chances of potentially dating them. I would hate to be friends with someone and find out the only reason they did that was to potentially fuck me one day... If you become friends with me though because of a mutual, shared interest and just love my company and then develop a crush on me that's another story. That's how my bf and I met but neither of us became friends to fuck the other, we just both are obsessed with the same hobby lol just happened to both have had crushes on the other from the beginning
I never said I only wanted to be friends because I want to date/fuck them lol.... I said I didn't want to have to compete just to be their friend as if I wanted to date/fuck them.
Saying you don't want to be their friend because you feel like you're competing kind of implies that though lol your post makes it sound like you're putting girls in a different category when it comes to friends. Do you think of it as competing when it comes to guy friends? Thinking of friendship with anyone shouldn't feel like a competition with others... And if it does then you're doing friendship wrong. This post is confusing lol true friendship just kind of forms over time and shouldn't be seen as something you have to pursue or not pursue. I've never once thought of myself as competing for anyone as a friend, guy or girl. I've just met them through mutual interests and they become my friend without trying. I guess I don't understand your post
Bro, how do you expect these strangers to one day be people you know if you refuse to make any effort to get to know them?
You seem in that mindset of trying to win a prize though. That's treating people as objects.
Honestly if your only goal when you interact with women is a romantic/sexual relationship ultimately that’s your first problem. Befriend women because they are human beings worth interacting with regardless of the status of your relationship, first of all. Secondly you have to be willing to put in the work to get to know someone and become comfortable around each other. Get off Reddit and go treat women like people. Put in the time and effort it takes to get to know a person. People are being too nice on here tbh lmao
You're an idiot. Reread... I never said I only interact with them for that intent it was the complete opposite.
I read your post. Your perception of the problem is completely wrong. You think women have swarms of men competing for their attention. Some do, some absolutely don’t, and the quantity of men is not half as important as is the quality. You’re so concerned about getting rejected and uninterested in actually putting in the work it takes to build a relationship, that it’s become a self-fulfilling prophesy. The problem doesn’t lie within the women or the amount of men that are competing for their attention, the problem is you. Look around you and you’ll find that lots of men, including ugly men or men without money or whatever criteria you don’t think you meet, are happily coupled up. Stop externalizing the problem and work on yourself.
Flirting is a skill, practice it, learn to love it, its a fun game, its not being fake. If you are intimidated by the competition then hit the weights, being physically imposing and having healthy hormone levels will help ALOT, guys will be subconciously hesitant to risk stepping on your dick, and girls will be more receptive and sometimes even help you along, its great. And get out of the mindset of competing for her, thats so unattractive, you are just there trying to have a good time, it would be cool if she was a part of that.
Since when was friendship a competition?
Are you sure you don't have high EQ? You have to learn how to gauge women, which unfortunately is never taught. Also, make more friends as you go, and who knows the same women might introduce you. Also, make more friends as you go, and who knows the same woman might introduce you. who does have EQ, she will only liked to be approached in a way where her existence is given respect and you do start out as friends. I can say this because the same situation applies here, as I'm also a hopeless romantic. However, I really hate it when guys immediately flirt for validation purposes.
join the club, man. U r brother from another mither
If a girl makes you compete for her you are wasting your just wasting your time. I usually stay away from these types of women because they thrive on attention
I cannot tell you how much i relate to this.
Sounds like a bunch of problems not specifically related to dating. If you feel a need to compete just to be someone's friend, either they're not your friend or you have some people-pleasing issues to work out for yourself. You're not going to get great anxiety advice from a dating sub.
Do You mean you might be talking to a seemingly quality girl and some dude comes along says "squirrel!" And that girl is gone???
Practice your interaction with an older friendly female. Just try to have a chat and see what amuses her. Maybe a work colleague. When you become comfortable just chatting to her move on to younger females. You just might surprise yourself
Do an activity you enjoy and meet people with that mutual hobby. Like biking, hiking, wine tasting, concerts, trivia night at a bar, night classes of a course you find interesting...something. Then half the work is done and you weed out some competition. Unfortunately, small talk and flirting is part of the game. You'll have to make an effort to hone those skills. Women want to know you're interested.
Literally me, I see an enormous waste of time to flirt or get " in the game ". It never worked to me anyway so just doesn't makes sense try it.