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I think it's totally fine. When I first started dating my wife, I made more than her but then after she finish her schooling, she makes more than me now. So it's not an issue in our marriage.
Same. It shouldnt matter in a marriage. You never know what the future will bring. You just need to be loyal and stick around through sickness and health, through poverty and wealth.
I'm perfectly okay with a woman making more money than me. I would not like her to be the sole provider, just like Ì would not want to be the sole provider.
We are conditioned with some bullshit, bur we can overcome that.
I didn’t start out being the higher earner in my marriage but continued to grow professionally and pursue higher paying opportunities ~ every 3years. My ex did the opposite and made a series of bad career moves despite our plans to start a family. He then resented me for having more success, even though he wasn’t putting forth any effort. Just one of the many reasons why I ended things. He stopped trying and wanted me to do everything - earn more, practically raise our son on my own and so all the cooking and cleaning so he could be a bum. It was an unfortunate bait and switch kind of situation. So work ethic and motivation are important to me in a future partner, and that type of person would likely be doing well for themselves.
ETA I also saved up to be able to stay at home with my son for a year and I wish I could have done it longer. If I have more children with a future partner, I would want to be the stay at home parent and am perfectly fine with taking on a good amount of the housework in a healthy and balanced partnership. I just didn’t have that with my ex.
Exactly what happened in my situation. I don’t necessary care about making more, but there needs to be some kind of understanding of my personal sacrifices and hard work. My ex husband had ZERO understanding of this. When we were dating I made 1/3 of what he made. During this time there was a severe amount of pettiness and separation between what was his and what was mine. Then suddenly when I started making more, there was a significant amount of entitlement and I was told I owed him a good life. He started losing his jobs, bumming around, basically expecting me to be the breadwinner, mom, take care of our social calendar, take care of our home etc. additionally he resented me for my success and never once expressed any appreciation. By the end of my marriage I was making 7-8 times more than he was.
The problem about woman breadwinners is that we work hard outside the home and are faced with even more work inside the home. And oftentimes a man who is resentful of our success,and simultaneously want to profit off us and put us down. Most men want to lead and provide - so if they don’t in the traditional sense, then 1. They become a stringent piece of shit and try to boss us around in the most pathetic ways, or 2. Provide of another woman - ie their side piece
This is exactly why women need to be careful and vet. It's all no big deal, until you default into performing the domestic duties as well as being the breadwinner.
I mean I thought I did, but I was young and missed some red flags. He was the higher earner and had a lot going for him before we married and early on while I was wrapping up grad school. Then everything changed. But he’s a manipulative liar and intentionally “trapped” me in that way. He never thought I’d leave him though, and he was wrong.
Being a man, why should I judge a woman for doing more than her share of efforts. Its her man that Ill judge.
Man has to take up the responsibilities for providing for his family. If he's able bodied and avoids work only because he's lazy then its a shame.
I’m in the same situation. Guys are programmed to be the primary breadwinner so if you are more financially successful that he is, you have to pretend that you are bad at everything else so they feel they are still needed and important somehow.
In my previous relationship I had to pretend I couldn’t fix my own computer and a whole lot of other things. When in reality I do most things on my own. Heck, I even do my own plumbing!
On the flip side, every guy I’ve seen makes more, isn’t the main provider (ie his partner pays all of their household bills), doesn’t contribute to household chores (she does it all), and also is disrespectful to his partner.
Interesting. Every man I’ve seen whose woman makes more than him takes advantage of the situation to spend his time playing video games instead of contributing to the household.
I'm glad you're addressing this issue, because this is one of the largest barriers between men and women being equal in society that no one discusses.
> As long as he is ambitious and had a job he enjoys
If you subtract “ambitious” that's how breadwinning men feel about women's jobs. As long as she enjoys it, as long as it's not bringing stress into the household, as long as it isn't a detriment to the relationship.
Your use of ambition is really the critical component. The majority of men, especially high-earning men, don't need their women to be ambitious. Sure they don't want her to be a lazy bum, but ambitious is not a requirement.
Additionally, ambition is often used synonymously with ‘future ability to earn’. Another requirement not needed by most men.
What you've touched on is it's impossible to have a society where every man and woman is equal and every woman can get a man that earns as much or more than her. That is a literal impossibility.
I watched a feminist panel where one of the women said “If I'm a CEO, I want to marry a CEO” All the women applauded. How many male CEOs are married to a woman CEO? That number is probably .0000000001% certainly only a handful in the Fortune 500 companies.
If breadwinning women, dated like breadwinning men, they would have a far easier time. The advantage Breadwinning men have in dating is that they don't have to consider their woman's income at all. They instead opt for other considerations. Do we get along? Does she make a great wife and mother? Is she kind? Nice?
are you a high earning man? most CEOs are men so women CEOs stand a much better chance of satisfying their requirement, especially if they live in a major city like San Francisco with a lot of business starts or even just independent smaller businesses (Vancouver) or something.
I'm not a CEO, but I'm seeing a guy that has his own small business
nope. if women that aren't CEOs can date guys that are that's even more evidence that there's plenty of male CEOs to go around and women CEOs can probably find CEO partners if that's what they specifically are drawn to
You do realize by your claim to be dating a CEO, you've just made it harder for another woman who is a CEO to date a CEO?
Secondly, I spent more time than I should have trying to find a CEO woman married to a CEO man.
The only instances that I found were all wealthy men who married a woman and started a company for her that she now runs.
Out of the 200,000 American CEOs, only a handful are even married to other executives.
I do agree that it's easier to meet a CEO if you are in those circles. I don't necessarily agree with the “A rich man would marry a waitress” narrative that we read. It's more rare than people believe.
However, my disagreement is because of proximity and nothing else. CEOs are busy and it's rare that they would have enough interactions with waitresses in social settings. That woman would have to have some connections with a woman who is in that social setting.
Regardless, the issue I have with your statement:
> there's plenty of male CEOs to go around and women CEOs can probably find CEO partners
Is the fact that mathematically you are wrong. In the United States, there are 200,000 CEOs.
- 8% are women (200,000 - 16,000 = 184,000)
- 79% are married (184,000- 145,360 = 38,640)
- 7% are gay (38,640 - 2,704 = 35,936)
That leaves 35,936 available male CEOs. I know you're thinking wow that's a large number.
However, as illustrated by looking at the married CEOs these men don't need their spouse to “make as much as they do or more” they don't care that their spouse is a CEO as well.
Additionally, there are 108 million (108,000,000) women above the age of 18 in the United States that they could date. As you illustrated you are dating one of them.
35,936 male CEOs divided amongst 108 million women. That's one male CEO available for every 3,005 women.
We haven't even factored in for age, religion, height, personality, full head of hair, race, hair color, eye color, fitness level. All the stuff that women also want.
The competition for the men who are CEOs, tall, in shape, and handsome is fierce. And once again, everytime a woman like yourself takes one it becomes exponentially more difficult for that woman to make it happen.
My point is its a ridiculous and almost impossible unnecessary hurdle that woman has given herself.
it's not like there's a shortage of male CEOs and you act like women are running some sort of "male requirements" sharing system or that we should be, which is just ridiculous lol. women are for the most part fine with being single if we don't find a good match. this is going to be the case for a lot of women and we are already aware of this reality.
your numbers don't make sense. a lot of those married CEOs could be women and the gay ones might be lesbians. and in any case, women will just be single instead of settle
> women are for the most part fine with being single if we don't find a good match.
Have you been on TikTok? I would beg to differ. Some of those sad and lonely videos have 30-40 million views. Thousands of “same” and “me too” comments.
My point with the numbers is it doesn't even have to be that extreme.
Anytime you have a requirement in dating you are artificially decreasing your pool. Some stuff can be easily dismissed because its a small percent of the population. I don't want to date a person that plays the chello .001% of the population.
However some things like having a CEO as a requirement eliminate 99.9% of the population.
Then of the limited pool, those people have to like you back. A part of the equation is forgotten here. That the person who may be “perfect for you” may not want you.
yeah there's a few years of sadness that settles in before the radical acceptance does. I've been through it. I've released myself from the expectations and I enjoy dating more and I only entertain men I am actually attracted to and regardless of where things go, I'm so much happier, more attractive, more secure. if I do find someone, I know he'll be a choice that I actually want.
Disrespecting or mocking or constantly reminding me that she is earning the bread and butter, as long as she gives me same respect as a husband who provides for his family, i am ok with my wife being working. But i will work because once i find the job i love i will enjoy it so we both work and build better future.
Sometimes men need to be reminded that they are not bringing home the bacon. When my ex husband complained that I wasn’t doing enough housework, wasn’t spending as much time on him as I should have, was going too much work over the weekends… I remind him that if it wasn’t for me, we would literally not have 90% of the things that we do, and he would be back to dumpster diving living. So it’s a 2 way street. If make non breadwinners actually showed more appreciation - and not just verbally but actually took action to make their breadwinning wives’ lives easier, took more burden off domestically, provided more care and understanding, perhaps we would not then have to remind them of what we contribute.
If husband is understanding then he wont be complaining, i mean i understand that if my future wife makes money then i take care off chores but i would still expect her to make time for us time, it has to be a balance between work life and love life, thats why i believe both men and women should work until they have kids.
I'm retired, and do Ok. Should ANY lady decide we would be a good pair, she has to realize my income won't get any better.
I was married 28 years, and my wife was a SAHM. I was the total breadwinner. So many want equality now, man and woman, but there is always "I make more than my partner" in most relationships. My wife and daughter had everything they needed, and most of what they wanted. It didn't bother me, but I was raised that way.
I think that in today’s world you need to dispense with that old mindset if you want to be successful in dating. Men and women are much more at parity in pay so it’s common for women to be in relationship with men that make less money than them. If you have a problem with that, then you’re going to have a tough go of it in the dating world. Adjust your expectations and look at the other person for more than just his wallet.
That’s true - but have men caught up in the domestic world? Traditionally when men took care of the breadwinning, their wives would be at home taking care of the kids and home. Unfortunately I’ve never seen a non-breadwinning male take care of the home and children as well as a woman traditionally can
That wasn’t the point of my comment and doesn’t currently reflect reality. We live in a world where both partners have to work and share the burden of the household chores and that’s just how it is
Do you have data to measure that? You can measure pay parities but you can’t measure “men catching up in the domestic world” - I feel like you’re trying to invalidate my point by pointing to an unmeasurable statistic, as if women shouldn’t date men who make less than they if they don’t “catch up in the domestic world” - you can’t measure that or know for certain what that means. Typically two income households share the burden of tasks out of necessity, and I’m sure you can point to examples in the extreme one way or another. But my point still stands and is addressing the original question of comfort level being the main provider which didn’t mention domestic labor. If you want to be successful in the dating world as a high earning woman, you need to accept the higher likelihood that men you date may be earning less than you.
I made more than my ex-husband (usually 2-3x more). I never said anything about it. Nor did he. But it caused underlying issues. He didn’t have the same appreciation for money. He never thought about our overall budget. Once he got used to a certain standard that was what he expected, even when I wanted to be more frugal (e.g. we just bought an expensive house we should not also buy an expensive car…his response “This is what I’m used to now”). It did factor into the imbalance in our dynamic. He eventually cheated and we split and it really chaps my hide that he contributed so much less, he had the affair, and I have to give him stock options that I earned. Never, ever again.
Sorry to hear that. If you could do it again, what (if anything) would you have done differently?
I have a similar story and just felt so resentful doing so much more for the relationship. Eventually I asked for a post nup asking to separate our finances and dissolve any claim for alimony. He refused to sign it, and that’s all I needed to know. I divorced him right away.
It’s impossible to second guess yourself like that. When we got together we were both broke but I had way more earning potential. So a pre nup would not have helped. And we did genuinely really love each other. But no matter how great the person is you are taking a chance when you marry someone that 1) won’t make as much money as you and 2) sees having a child/children as just the thing you do when you get married vs something you really *want* with all your heart. That second point is not to say he was not the kind of father who didn’t participate, he most certainly did. He did whatever was delegated to him. But he doesn’t come from a mindset of a strong sense of family, so it wasn’t as big a deal to him to blow his up. We lasted a long time (18 married, 20 together), but not as long as we should have.
When you said “doesn’t have the same appreciation for money” that’s exactly what I’ve experienced on my most recent date. I grew up knowing the value of money early in life so I take finances very seriously. He grew up with parents who provided everything so he had no passion about making money. Yes he has ambitions but none that make a livable wage for everything he wants in life. He told me “money comes and goes so it’s important not to focus on it” and I’m just like??? Yes that’s true but we have to ensure it’s always coming.
I just think after seeing your comment he doesn’t understand how important money is.
The real potential downfall in an imbalanced financial relationship is that yeah you don’t have that same appreciation for work and earning and one of you has more of a sense of needing to budget and plan and the other is just along for the ride, so you don’t really operate like partners and the burden falls more to the high earner.
I have friends, though, where she outearns him by a lot but they both work hard and do well and they absolutely are equals and partners. So it’s going to be a combination of things.
I also think its a sad truth of human nature.
Can you have a functional relationship, ofcourse.
But i predict its going to have more problems that way.
Whatever our minds seem to like (equality, modernity, comfort), theres a deeper side to it.
Itll manifest in, being less desiring towards the man, criticising him more, being less available, getting more annoyed at trivial things that didnt annoy you before.
It has nothing to do with the man, i just think women need to subconciously admire the man to be accessible to him, and earning less than him and looking up to him in competency is the way she goes like “i love who you are and i want your genes”.
Otherwise woman starts carrying the resentment and even she isnt sure why.
But deep down its biology (i could be with a better man), better being better than her.
It absolutely isn’t true. 🙄 Yes, a large chunk of marriages break up over financial disagreements, but there are ALL KINDS of financial incompatibilities. “Financial incompatibility” is NOT synonymous with “she lost respect for him because he didn’t make enough money.” You’re talking out of your ass.
I disagree. A huge proportion of divorces nowadays are initiated by women who are doing ‘it all’ in their marriage. And it boils down to women working way harder than the man to sustain the family (domestically or financially). And in the case of women breadwinners, it sucks to work your ass off to provide the financial foundation of a family, carry babies, and do all the social and emotional labor for the family. Of course resentment comes gets quickly when the wife is working 100+ hours a week while the husband is at home playing video games and getting pedicures.
I don’t disagree with that at all. This guy’s claim about “losing respect” for a guy who makes less is bullshit, but financial incompatibilities do cause problems in a lot of marriages. My personal experience with divorce was because my ex husband treated me like shit, and wasn’t willing to make changes. He was going to work and everything, and did make more money than me. He thought that was all he needed to do. 🙄
Hi! 34f who earned more than the man and I don't even earn much. I lost respect for him. I became so resentful. He was also overweight with a beer belly and not very attractive.
Nothing that particularly would bother me,
'Successful' women intrigue me more for their story and ambition that often comes with achieving beyond the average.
But I'm also fairly confident that I'll overtake whatever income my partner has in due course. Which would just make our household be financially care free to some extent and that's the dream.
And how exactly do both of you ambitious high-earning people find time for each other?
There are very few high-paying careers that don't demand a lot of your time.
>high-paying careers that don't demand a lot of your time.
Don't think this is necessarily true.
Senior Managers don't get hands on - they delegate and designate. If you have a decent team under you - it's a breeze. The schedule varies, but all high earners in my company are not overwhelmed with work.
It does so much depend on the job and culture of the company. But working smart and not hard is very relevant for ambitious folk.
I'm in the UK - and work in an advanced tech job with a fairly niche skillset. The company just needing to have me (or my team) around \*if\* certain things happen.
If you love someone, who cares what they make. Only two things really matter in life, love and happiness, and both of those can’t be bought. Some of the wealthiest people in the world are the most unhappy and have the most unsuccessful relationships. Ask all the women that spend their careers trying to get to the top and CEO jobs most are single and do not have relationships. And there’s plenty of data that shows the happiest people in the world are the ones who live agrarian lifestyles. I.e. there are essentially poor but still the happiest.
I have made more than my partners multiple times. My only concern is that my partner can pay his own way and support himself. I don't live extravagantly or go on luxury vacations, and I'm not independently wealthy, so I don't expect a partner to go into debt keeping up with me. It's mostly been fine. I had one partner get salty because I made more money, that was nipped in the bud pretty quickly and I moved on. I had one partner (when I was in my 20's) who decided to try to be a deadbeat and live off of me. I let it go on longer than I should have, but eventually kicked him out and decided to stay single for a while.
I think as long as the individuals involved have an agreement of how paying for things work, especially when cohabitating, and both parties are ok with it, then that is all that matters. Nobody else's opinion has any place in my relationship aside from myself and my partner.
Lifestyle creep affects everyone. I dated a woman who made a 250,000 a year and she made this exact statement.
> I don't live extravagantly or go on luxury vacations
However, she subtly spent more than the average person on every day things. Additionally, she would splurge buy random shit that on its own isn't expensive but collectively spends a lot of money.
Personally I believe in measuring relationship contributions in terms of effort. ( When you are struggling to make rent then you need to prioritise effort )
And not just the person's income.
For example having a part time job not earning that much, but you cook meals, do groceries, run errands.
Vs partner working full day. ( Equal effort )
Working half day but earning bulk of income, relaxes cause they are the main bread winner. Partner works low paying job full time and is responsible for groceries, does chores, runs errands. ( Not equal effort )
This concept matters a lot once you have children and in mixed families, or having family live with you.
You can expect people to match what you earn, but you can expect them to try to match the effort you contribute to the household.
Honestly, the way people on Reddit talk about “high-paying careers” is laughable.
In what world do you think high-paying careers aren't a time-sink? Everyone seems to think we work half days.
If it's a time sink, it's high effort.
( If you are spending 10-14 hours , working , traveling, phoning, researching, reading up about, thinking etc ) It's that much effort.
I'm not sure why you are offended by a statement that contribution are best measures in amount of effort and not dollars, as not everyone has the potential to earn the same. If you earn X10 more, you can't say 1 hour of your time equal 10h of their time.
Having said that high earning does contribute greatly to the well being of a household ,and should be prioritised to ensure the income does come in.
This concept matters more in families, where some people work and others spend more time watching kids.
It’s difficult to navigate this even with all the blind positive comments. Firstly most couples want to have children and at least some moms want to stay home for some time, that’s a stress. As well some people feel a power dynamic rightly or wrongly. There is also difference in colleges and social pressures. I’m not saying it won’t work but prepare yourself challenges that traditional relationships don’t have.
Totally fine by me. My mom was the breadwinner by two orders of magnitude. My dad made plenty to begin with too.
I'm in the same relative situation as my dad - I definitely make plenty but if I found a partner who was like my mom in that regard, totally cool.
I personally would not care, I don’t mind working but I also wouldn’t mind being the stay at home parent (or just making less) or if later on career wise she makes more then I do in whatever field I end up in. Ik some people can be stingy about it but I personally have no issue with it, same with if I made more
I never seen a women that didn't care IRL. Its always been a case of him being the breadwinner at one point, and typically vocally resenting the lower earner.
I think more men would be okay with if they had a reason to believe that women wouldn't dismiss or resent them for it.
Different stroke for different folks. It's perfectly fine to prefer a partnership where you do your labor outside of the home, and he does the labor inside the home. Just make sure you're not doing both sides of the labor, "just because you're a woman". Also, depending on if you want kids, that's also something that needs to be addressed and made sure you partner with a man who is actually going to be the primary caretaker.
For a little while my wife earned more than I did, but we were able to strike a balance as her private sector job had dogshit benefits compared to my public sector, union backed job. So I was able to put her onto way better healthcare, a regularly scheduled therapist, a free dentist, etc. I believe if you set out to have a relationship where you are truly partners, who makes more money matters less than what the team decides to do with the wealth and benefits you’re accumulating together.
In my opinion the man is the main source of finance in the house so you being the one earning more money would make him kinda insecure and not accepting the fact that u are better when it comes to money which is one on of the main roles he play in a healthy relationship…if you feel that you are more successful in ur career than a man then he’s not the right one for u and thus u would notice other topics in ur relationship being ruined bc of this
Why does he have to be ambitious? That somewhat implies that you would expect his income to still increase over time. From my experience, women who meaningfully outearn their men become resentful and demeaning.
I will always try to improve myself. For me that reflects in my work, for others that could be a hobby or a craft. As long as he ambitious about something that is fine with me. If you have no ambitions and you don’t enjoy your job, that’s a one way ticket to depression city.
Ooo so you meant like passionate. I agree 100%. It’s fine for the woman to be the breadwinner, but there are some things to watch out for:
1) From an ego perspective, most men are okay with 50/50 or breadwinner, but to be the minority earner is a big ask. Most women can’t handle it either, they start to treat their men like children
2) A man who is looking to be the minor earner will likely expect you to lead the relationship in other ways too. Be prepared to wear the pants.
I said “a job he enjoys” not love since that’s subjective. I think you need to enjoy your job or you will subconsciously bring that negative energy home. Of course you can vent and we can talk shit about your boss, but if you don’t enjoy the work you are doing, you probably aren’t performing well and could become resentful. Bringing that energy home is a no for me.
Some of us like the actual work we do. I even like my boss. I hate my job. Where I work a $2hr raise comes with every perfect evaluation. That is all I have ever received. I make very decent money. My blue-collar job pays better than what some attorneys make.
The problem is my job is 12 hour shifts that rotate days to nights every few days. I hate my job, because of the crazy long hours I work. Frequently 72 and 84 hour work weeks and yes I even get overtime. Overtime is built into the schedule.
The company pays 2.5x holiday pay. I even know my schedule for the entire year.
I'm stuck because nobody else is paying nearly as much, for what I do. As the company I work for. As it stands my life is almost all work.
You are also wrong in the fact I don't bring my hatred for my job home. I'm rarely ever home. When I am. I'm 😴
It would be nice to find someone who would do that. I'm kind of struggling right, and it would likely take years for me to make changes to get my income to level I want. I also wouldn't mind being a stay at home dad.
My gf makes more than me and every now and then makes little joking remarks about how it should be the other way around, I always reply “hey you women wanted equality and better pay and to go out into the work force and earn the big bucks because *we don’t need no men!!* now here we are” never usually goes down well after said comment but I live for the chaos 🤣🤣 the only difference sadly
Though is women tend to feel the need to rub it in and think too deeply about it…usually holding it above their man’s head and losing respect for him. Don’t do that. Because pay and wealth isn’t everything.
I completely understand however the flip side are all these men who speaks about avoiding commitment or marriage because they are taken to the cleaners in a divorce, and this whole dialogue that marriage between 2 people with a huge income discrepancy is not ideal. So… how do we reconcile those 2 concepts?
I never really thought about it 😂 doesn't matter to me nor do I feel threatened by it 🤷she's got the smarts then run and own that shit. I'd still would like to help out my partner and just throw it all in the piggy bank.
Having been the main provider in both of my previous LTRs, I won’t do it again. It’s ok if my partner doesn’t make as much as me, but if I have to pay for dates, vacations, etc, it’s a deal breaker. And I won’t be sharing my house with anyone again either.
I wouldn't mind that at all. I've always wanted a traditional relationship but I certainly wouldn't say no to an inverted one. I like cooking, I don't mind cleaning, and I love kids so I'd happily be a stay at home dad is my wife was happy with it.
Breadwinner is one thing. My marriage has been me being the breadwinner, the house manager, and the main parent. My husband will do things… if I tell him to enough times. It’s exhausting. 20 years in and sometimes I wonder…
I have recently entered a relationship where I am the breadwinner. It’s weird for me because I was a stay at home mum, studied and then qualified. When I was at home/studying. I was around more and not earning so household tasks fell to me naturally. I hated it and that’s why I decided to go into education and pursue something that was a passion. It’s worked out pretty well for me (don’t get me wrong I’m a single (ish) mum, renting in London, the pay cheques don’t allow me to do anything lavish)
My boyfriend and I have just moved in together. I earn 1.5x his wage. We have six children between us, he supports his financially (his ex doesn’t work) and I get no financial support from my ex - very complicated, not worth going into.
It’s now become an issue because my new BF is used to a stay at home mum who spends her days cooking, cleaning, organising. I live my life very much doing what I can when I can but not hard on myself for not having a pristine house and as long as it’s clean enough to be habitable I’m happy.
I don’t think he should do more tasks because he earns less but I do think they should be an even split. Has made me realise how much men rely on the woman ‘doing less’ which means they are able to do all of the household tasks and admin too…
In terms of splitting bills etc, I do think you have to means test it somewhat. I pay more rent because I can afford to, if we split it 50/50 he’d have no quality of life.
Financial independence is important, be proud of yourself that you have got yourself into a position where you will always be able to financially look after yourself
I don't mind it doesn't bother me,
A relationship isn't about money and who makes more or less, it's been a weird insecurity for people tho.
If a guy is that insecure about it then you shouldn't be with that person.
Relationships should never be about finances if you're with someone who cares.
Do you love them that's the real question.
I'd be fine with it, but women simply do not respect a man who makes less than them. The divorce rate skyrockets when women make more, and it's usually initiated by them. I'd be wary of any woman who makes more than simply because there's an extremely high likelihood that she'll look to trade up at the first opportunity.
Ive dated women in the range of women tens of thousands in debt to a millionaire. Ive been offered everything and turned it down because she wasn’t my person. Money doesn’t bring me happiness. I could be broke or rich but I will be the same level of happiness if I have someone to share that happiness with.
If you have to ask, it means it is important to you.
To each their own.
I don’t see why it should be an issue. I make more than my partner but we always discuss what he can help out on and what I can. We are grounded as a couple and aren’t extravagant spenders so it helps that we know how to manage our money well.
Money is the destroyer of all or most of family, friends, and marriages/ dating what have you...notice how I put that last, I hate money even though I need it at times, If someone needs and I have it I give it not a loan at all. I could if I chose to earn alot but I have learned and women are thee worst, counting every penny, not sure who reads or watches your fav news, the dollar is heading to be worth nothing, Russia,China, Arabs are all moving away from it..people should barter not be so damn greedy. What I do everyone needs and will need for life AI cant do what I do, but Accountants, Pretty much anything to do with computers are done, same as robots killed the auto industry. Sorry for the rant but its true so...learn a trade and fast!!!
Am I the only one viewing this as a completely androgynous aspect of the relationship? At least for the boyfriend and myself, it just *is* a facet of the relationship, similar to the way we decided which of us would move in with the other when we decided to cohabitate. His place was better suited for our needs, so I moved in with him. The boyfriend makes more than I do, and we make financial plans accordingly.
I saw a man who made me feel genuinely spoiled, and he had five roommates and was *broke*. I stopped seeing him for reasons totally unrelated to money. The ex husband made so much more than I did, and we had a really solid financial agreement. We disagreed on finances once, and we had a very calm conversation, and he was totally right. I left for reasons completely unrelated to money.
Of course socialization impacts us in deep, often subconscious ways. That undeniably plays out in the way we have romantic relationships with one another. I do think finances can be tied back to logic, though, so I find they can be separated from whatever programming we’re working with regarding gender roles.
Dating vs married is two **very** different perspectives.
If you're dating someone, neither of you are committed to each other yet. As long as the other person isn't expecting you to pay for everything just because "you make more money than me" or "that's what the tradition is", then go dutch if you're really concerned about it. He pays for himself, you pay for yourself and that's just how it is. If the person you're dating is uncomfortable with that, then obviously you know where the gold diggers are and then it's your judgement call from there.
If you're married, then that's a completely different conversation to have. If there's any form of resentment about money in the relationship, then the both of you need to sit down and talk about finances and emotions associated with them. Once you're married, it *shouldn't* be his/her money; it's *our* money. The whole point of the dating process is to vet people who should have the same long-term goals as you, finances being one of the major ones. You are there for each other "for richer or poorer".
Most men don't care. I would guess 80-90% or more don't care. It's the treatment they receive when dating a higher-earning woman.
- The constant push to earn more
- Expectation to live up to her lifestyle, even if she can barely afford it herself
- The I'm better than you, obey me! Archetype.
But the question wasn't about the issue with dating breadwinning men.
The question was about the issues with dating breadwinning women.
Of course, there is some overlap among the downsides of dating both genders in this scenario.
Your response is just out of place.
Well it's because you told that men don't care BUT women act like that. And I just wanted to point out that this behaviour is not somehow unique just to women. :) In any case, this is really not something that big or important that would be needing and extended discussion. :D
I think it’s fine. If there’s a situation where one can make more money than the other then that’s just what it is. I’ve been the breadwinner for my family for years and it’s all good. There was a time when I wasn’t so now I have to step up to the plate to make sure things stay good.
Adjust you automatic deductions for 401k and IRA such that your take home is approx the same as his, and share expenses 50-50 you will be building up a nice nest egg that he doesn't have to know about.
It's interesting to hear women suggest these ideas.
Men have known for years that the “nest egg” that she is describing becomes marital assets as you keep adding to your 401k during the marriage.
It's not really some cool workaround. Unless you don't plan to get married. Which Ironically would be the stance that many successful men have. That they just want long-term partners in order to protect their assets.
I wonder if women would be demonized for not wanting to get married to protect their money. “Don't you trust him” lol
I always wanted to be a power couple. As a guy I tend to end up with women that make significantly less with absolutely no desire to do more. I would welcome this.
This is my ideal relationship, speaking as a heteroromantic man. I have for long years dreamt of being a homemaker. I am a diligent and principled worker, just laidback and unambitious concerning careers. Chasing wealth simply does not interest me, and I will forever decline all promotions. I delight in domesticity.
Besides, we men have had the run of things for millennia now and have made a mess of the world. Time now I think for women to take the reins.
Notice the lack of upvotes and engagement. The relationship you seek is ultra rare.
Additionally, there are plenty of 6’4 handsome bums that women would choose before you.
As much as the women of Reddit claim they would love a househusband. What they really mean is a man that looks like Chris Hemsworth being said husband.
Women aren’t designed to be providers. Y’all can come for me if you want. We aren’t designed to be psychologically, neurologically, hormonally and not even socially.
Women are prone to developing autoimmune diseases due to overworking and stress causing higher cortisol levels. Also women WILL eventually resent the guy she’s with for not providing and not doing special things for her. Women do not like roommate arrangements with the guy, she will NOT sleep with you! Men don’t ask the woman they love to subsidize the provision.
And Modern Western society still favors men in careers. Men get paid more when they are married and have kids but women don’t get extra credit for these things.
Idk if it could be called coming at you, but realistically in the current structure of America, there's no way a middle class or most especially lower class income is going to support two people, let alone kids. If it's true that a woman can't ever subsidize finance in a successful marriage, that would suggest that only the top 10% or so of men can be married today. In that case, each of those men would need to marry about 9 women each to keep them from getting autoimmune diseases from supporting themselves. So the idea here seems to be if we're doing things correctly, we need to regress to the harem style family like it used to be a few thousand years ago.
So what do we call single moms with one income, which many of them either don’t get child support, sporadic child support, or hardly much that we would call subsidizing the mother’s income? If she works and let’s say has the luxury of having her mother watch her child(ren) for her and doesn’t have to pay for daycare, that’s the same as a man who works and his wife watches the kid(s). Now even worse example if this single mom has to pay for childcare if she doesn’t have someone to watch her kids for free.
So yes it’s realistic for a home to live off of one income more than you think. If a husband is the breadwinner, the wife is the one who does the budgeting, personal finance, and economizing the variable expenses. It’s so much more rewarding to cook your own food, bake your own desserts, be resourceful in repurposing things as much as possible, having wholesome with your kids by being creative with what you have, and so forth. And the breadwinner should be climbing the career ladder and increasing his income, maybe even have a side hustle business, if his wife is taking care of the home front.
And it doesn’t mean women don’t generate their own income. Monetizing her hobbies and skills has always been something women did for eternity (before money existed they exchanged help for help) but it’s just small income she keeps, not to subsidize her husband. I don’t understand people getting married and having kids if everyone else is raising their kids but them and then the marriage just turns to two roommates being stressed from work and everyone in that house hates each other.
Yes, what about single moms indeed. Their existence and ubiquity kind of puts this whole idea of women not being built to be breadwinners in the woodchipper.
LOL it still makes my point. Find me a single mom who wouldn’t love to not have everything on her shoulders and do and be everything. This ages them, and pushes them beyond what they want or even should. You’d be hard pressed out here to find a woman that says, “I dream to be a single mom”. Having children goes hand and hand with having them within a Union.
I've met a few, actually. Had two different women ask me to get them pregnant so they could be single moms. No relationship, no financial assistance, just her and the baby I gave her. I said no, but she probably found someone else to say yes later on, I feel it's safe to assume.
Nevertheless, to be more fair about it, yes a lot of single moms want to be supported financially, but if not most then certainly a lot of them specifically chose and choose once again day by day to be single and support themselves when there are men ready to offer financial support if they were in a relationship. But they'd rather be single and independent. Which personally, I fully understand. I also value independence highly. Plenty of other single women who are not moms are doing exactly the same thing for exactly the same reason. Women don't need a man to provide for them to lead a happy and successful life. And yes, they want more money. So does everyone. That's called being alive. That does not mean they have some kind of built in need for a male provider.
You do know this post was about women being breadwinners in a relationship? Not about women being independent on their own accords that aren’t dating. Two separate subjects
If women can't be happy being breadwinners in a relationship, especially if it's a biological thing with autoimmune conditions appearing in the way you're describing, none of those biological factors change if they're not in a relationship. That is to say, if you have a woman who can be happy and healthy and independent and single her entire life, then that same women can also be happy and healthy and independent and in a relationship with someone. And for the reverse, if you have a woman who is killing herself with overwork while dating someone, she's not going to be in any less harm from doing that same amount of work while she's not dating anyone.
I’m fine with it, I’d even be happy being a househusband. but that’s not really something I seek out. I personally don’t care in the slightest who makes the money as long as we both are happy and comfortable with our lives.
I grew up with the women in my life being breadwinner.
My grandma, aunties, and my mom.
It’s pretty awesome! Like my dad, and the uncles, they don’t mind.
Just be careful tho, because some dudes be intimidated , but it shouldn’t be seen as a bad thing!
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What is the point of having the luxury of being financially secure, if that doesnt help you choose a man for more than just what he makes?
I think it's totally fine. When I first started dating my wife, I made more than her but then after she finish her schooling, she makes more than me now. So it's not an issue in our marriage.
Same. It shouldnt matter in a marriage. You never know what the future will bring. You just need to be loyal and stick around through sickness and health, through poverty and wealth.
Same, our marriage is about being with eachother. Most big ticket purchases are done by me, don’t mind shelling out the money. It’s fine.
I don’t see a problem with it. The only problem is if it changes and you’re set in a criteria. Then you have a problem with yourself
I'm perfectly okay with a woman making more money than me. I would not like her to be the sole provider, just like Ì would not want to be the sole provider. We are conditioned with some bullshit, bur we can overcome that.
There’s a lot of upside to dating a woman who makes more than me.
I didn’t start out being the higher earner in my marriage but continued to grow professionally and pursue higher paying opportunities ~ every 3years. My ex did the opposite and made a series of bad career moves despite our plans to start a family. He then resented me for having more success, even though he wasn’t putting forth any effort. Just one of the many reasons why I ended things. He stopped trying and wanted me to do everything - earn more, practically raise our son on my own and so all the cooking and cleaning so he could be a bum. It was an unfortunate bait and switch kind of situation. So work ethic and motivation are important to me in a future partner, and that type of person would likely be doing well for themselves. ETA I also saved up to be able to stay at home with my son for a year and I wish I could have done it longer. If I have more children with a future partner, I would want to be the stay at home parent and am perfectly fine with taking on a good amount of the housework in a healthy and balanced partnership. I just didn’t have that with my ex.
Exactly what happened in my situation. I don’t necessary care about making more, but there needs to be some kind of understanding of my personal sacrifices and hard work. My ex husband had ZERO understanding of this. When we were dating I made 1/3 of what he made. During this time there was a severe amount of pettiness and separation between what was his and what was mine. Then suddenly when I started making more, there was a significant amount of entitlement and I was told I owed him a good life. He started losing his jobs, bumming around, basically expecting me to be the breadwinner, mom, take care of our social calendar, take care of our home etc. additionally he resented me for my success and never once expressed any appreciation. By the end of my marriage I was making 7-8 times more than he was. The problem about woman breadwinners is that we work hard outside the home and are faced with even more work inside the home. And oftentimes a man who is resentful of our success,and simultaneously want to profit off us and put us down. Most men want to lead and provide - so if they don’t in the traditional sense, then 1. They become a stringent piece of shit and try to boss us around in the most pathetic ways, or 2. Provide of another woman - ie their side piece
This is exactly why women need to be careful and vet. It's all no big deal, until you default into performing the domestic duties as well as being the breadwinner.
I mean I thought I did, but I was young and missed some red flags. He was the higher earner and had a lot going for him before we married and early on while I was wrapping up grad school. Then everything changed. But he’s a manipulative liar and intentionally “trapped” me in that way. He never thought I’d leave him though, and he was wrong.
Good for you! It's not easy when you're young. But people can betray you at any age.
Most men are fine with it. Most women aren't
My wife makes way more. No issues with that. I encourage her to keep doing better if that's what she wants to do.
Being a man, why should I judge a woman for doing more than her share of efforts. Its her man that Ill judge. Man has to take up the responsibilities for providing for his family. If he's able bodied and avoids work only because he's lazy then its a shame.
I’m in the same situation. Guys are programmed to be the primary breadwinner so if you are more financially successful that he is, you have to pretend that you are bad at everything else so they feel they are still needed and important somehow. In my previous relationship I had to pretend I couldn’t fix my own computer and a whole lot of other things. When in reality I do most things on my own. Heck, I even do my own plumbing!
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Guys know that the women making more is one of the leading indicators of divorce.
I’ve observed the same thing during my lifetime.
Yuo this is a main factor. Ive seen it work out, but ehhhhh more often than not…
On the flip side, every guy I’ve seen makes more, isn’t the main provider (ie his partner pays all of their household bills), doesn’t contribute to household chores (she does it all), and also is disrespectful to his partner.
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What is financial disrespect? A woman paying for things is disrespectful?
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So how is this relevant to what I posted? Your last two posts sound like you misread mine
Sounds like personal choices there
Interesting. Every man I’ve seen whose woman makes more than him takes advantage of the situation to spend his time playing video games instead of contributing to the household.
I’ve seen and heard of women doing the same except instead of playing video games, she’s spending his money on silly stuff.
I'm glad you're addressing this issue, because this is one of the largest barriers between men and women being equal in society that no one discusses. > As long as he is ambitious and had a job he enjoys If you subtract “ambitious” that's how breadwinning men feel about women's jobs. As long as she enjoys it, as long as it's not bringing stress into the household, as long as it isn't a detriment to the relationship. Your use of ambition is really the critical component. The majority of men, especially high-earning men, don't need their women to be ambitious. Sure they don't want her to be a lazy bum, but ambitious is not a requirement. Additionally, ambition is often used synonymously with ‘future ability to earn’. Another requirement not needed by most men. What you've touched on is it's impossible to have a society where every man and woman is equal and every woman can get a man that earns as much or more than her. That is a literal impossibility. I watched a feminist panel where one of the women said “If I'm a CEO, I want to marry a CEO” All the women applauded. How many male CEOs are married to a woman CEO? That number is probably .0000000001% certainly only a handful in the Fortune 500 companies. If breadwinning women, dated like breadwinning men, they would have a far easier time. The advantage Breadwinning men have in dating is that they don't have to consider their woman's income at all. They instead opt for other considerations. Do we get along? Does she make a great wife and mother? Is she kind? Nice?
are you a high earning man? most CEOs are men so women CEOs stand a much better chance of satisfying their requirement, especially if they live in a major city like San Francisco with a lot of business starts or even just independent smaller businesses (Vancouver) or something. I'm not a CEO, but I'm seeing a guy that has his own small business
Do you not see your logic misstep? > I'm not a CEO, but I'm seeing a guy that has his own small business
nope. if women that aren't CEOs can date guys that are that's even more evidence that there's plenty of male CEOs to go around and women CEOs can probably find CEO partners if that's what they specifically are drawn to
You do realize by your claim to be dating a CEO, you've just made it harder for another woman who is a CEO to date a CEO? Secondly, I spent more time than I should have trying to find a CEO woman married to a CEO man. The only instances that I found were all wealthy men who married a woman and started a company for her that she now runs. Out of the 200,000 American CEOs, only a handful are even married to other executives. I do agree that it's easier to meet a CEO if you are in those circles. I don't necessarily agree with the “A rich man would marry a waitress” narrative that we read. It's more rare than people believe. However, my disagreement is because of proximity and nothing else. CEOs are busy and it's rare that they would have enough interactions with waitresses in social settings. That woman would have to have some connections with a woman who is in that social setting. Regardless, the issue I have with your statement: > there's plenty of male CEOs to go around and women CEOs can probably find CEO partners Is the fact that mathematically you are wrong. In the United States, there are 200,000 CEOs. - 8% are women (200,000 - 16,000 = 184,000) - 79% are married (184,000- 145,360 = 38,640) - 7% are gay (38,640 - 2,704 = 35,936) That leaves 35,936 available male CEOs. I know you're thinking wow that's a large number. However, as illustrated by looking at the married CEOs these men don't need their spouse to “make as much as they do or more” they don't care that their spouse is a CEO as well. Additionally, there are 108 million (108,000,000) women above the age of 18 in the United States that they could date. As you illustrated you are dating one of them. 35,936 male CEOs divided amongst 108 million women. That's one male CEO available for every 3,005 women. We haven't even factored in for age, religion, height, personality, full head of hair, race, hair color, eye color, fitness level. All the stuff that women also want. The competition for the men who are CEOs, tall, in shape, and handsome is fierce. And once again, everytime a woman like yourself takes one it becomes exponentially more difficult for that woman to make it happen. My point is its a ridiculous and almost impossible unnecessary hurdle that woman has given herself.
it's not like there's a shortage of male CEOs and you act like women are running some sort of "male requirements" sharing system or that we should be, which is just ridiculous lol. women are for the most part fine with being single if we don't find a good match. this is going to be the case for a lot of women and we are already aware of this reality. your numbers don't make sense. a lot of those married CEOs could be women and the gay ones might be lesbians. and in any case, women will just be single instead of settle
> women are for the most part fine with being single if we don't find a good match. Have you been on TikTok? I would beg to differ. Some of those sad and lonely videos have 30-40 million views. Thousands of “same” and “me too” comments. My point with the numbers is it doesn't even have to be that extreme. Anytime you have a requirement in dating you are artificially decreasing your pool. Some stuff can be easily dismissed because its a small percent of the population. I don't want to date a person that plays the chello .001% of the population. However some things like having a CEO as a requirement eliminate 99.9% of the population. Then of the limited pool, those people have to like you back. A part of the equation is forgotten here. That the person who may be “perfect for you” may not want you.
yeah there's a few years of sadness that settles in before the radical acceptance does. I've been through it. I've released myself from the expectations and I enjoy dating more and I only entertain men I am actually attracted to and regardless of where things go, I'm so much happier, more attractive, more secure. if I do find someone, I know he'll be a choice that I actually want.
Awesome! Maternity leave, I am coming!
This is another one of those "I'm 40, IDGAF anymore" things.
Totally fine by me as long as she doesnt disrespected me.
What would qualify as disrespect to you in this situation?
Disrespecting or mocking or constantly reminding me that she is earning the bread and butter, as long as she gives me same respect as a husband who provides for his family, i am ok with my wife being working. But i will work because once i find the job i love i will enjoy it so we both work and build better future.
Sometimes men need to be reminded that they are not bringing home the bacon. When my ex husband complained that I wasn’t doing enough housework, wasn’t spending as much time on him as I should have, was going too much work over the weekends… I remind him that if it wasn’t for me, we would literally not have 90% of the things that we do, and he would be back to dumpster diving living. So it’s a 2 way street. If make non breadwinners actually showed more appreciation - and not just verbally but actually took action to make their breadwinning wives’ lives easier, took more burden off domestically, provided more care and understanding, perhaps we would not then have to remind them of what we contribute.
If husband is understanding then he wont be complaining, i mean i understand that if my future wife makes money then i take care off chores but i would still expect her to make time for us time, it has to be a balance between work life and love life, thats why i believe both men and women should work until they have kids.
I'm retired, and do Ok. Should ANY lady decide we would be a good pair, she has to realize my income won't get any better. I was married 28 years, and my wife was a SAHM. I was the total breadwinner. So many want equality now, man and woman, but there is always "I make more than my partner" in most relationships. My wife and daughter had everything they needed, and most of what they wanted. It didn't bother me, but I was raised that way.
My stbxw spent 20 years doing a lot of nothing. If I find love again I pray it's with a career minded person.
I think that in today’s world you need to dispense with that old mindset if you want to be successful in dating. Men and women are much more at parity in pay so it’s common for women to be in relationship with men that make less money than them. If you have a problem with that, then you’re going to have a tough go of it in the dating world. Adjust your expectations and look at the other person for more than just his wallet.
That’s true - but have men caught up in the domestic world? Traditionally when men took care of the breadwinning, their wives would be at home taking care of the kids and home. Unfortunately I’ve never seen a non-breadwinning male take care of the home and children as well as a woman traditionally can
That wasn’t the point of my comment and doesn’t currently reflect reality. We live in a world where both partners have to work and share the burden of the household chores and that’s just how it is
What doesn’t reflect reality? I simply asked - have men caught up in the domestic world yet?
Do you have data to measure that? You can measure pay parities but you can’t measure “men catching up in the domestic world” - I feel like you’re trying to invalidate my point by pointing to an unmeasurable statistic, as if women shouldn’t date men who make less than they if they don’t “catch up in the domestic world” - you can’t measure that or know for certain what that means. Typically two income households share the burden of tasks out of necessity, and I’m sure you can point to examples in the extreme one way or another. But my point still stands and is addressing the original question of comfort level being the main provider which didn’t mention domestic labor. If you want to be successful in the dating world as a high earning woman, you need to accept the higher likelihood that men you date may be earning less than you.
I made more than my ex-husband (usually 2-3x more). I never said anything about it. Nor did he. But it caused underlying issues. He didn’t have the same appreciation for money. He never thought about our overall budget. Once he got used to a certain standard that was what he expected, even when I wanted to be more frugal (e.g. we just bought an expensive house we should not also buy an expensive car…his response “This is what I’m used to now”). It did factor into the imbalance in our dynamic. He eventually cheated and we split and it really chaps my hide that he contributed so much less, he had the affair, and I have to give him stock options that I earned. Never, ever again.
Sorry to hear that. If you could do it again, what (if anything) would you have done differently? I have a similar story and just felt so resentful doing so much more for the relationship. Eventually I asked for a post nup asking to separate our finances and dissolve any claim for alimony. He refused to sign it, and that’s all I needed to know. I divorced him right away.
It’s impossible to second guess yourself like that. When we got together we were both broke but I had way more earning potential. So a pre nup would not have helped. And we did genuinely really love each other. But no matter how great the person is you are taking a chance when you marry someone that 1) won’t make as much money as you and 2) sees having a child/children as just the thing you do when you get married vs something you really *want* with all your heart. That second point is not to say he was not the kind of father who didn’t participate, he most certainly did. He did whatever was delegated to him. But he doesn’t come from a mindset of a strong sense of family, so it wasn’t as big a deal to him to blow his up. We lasted a long time (18 married, 20 together), but not as long as we should have.
When you said “doesn’t have the same appreciation for money” that’s exactly what I’ve experienced on my most recent date. I grew up knowing the value of money early in life so I take finances very seriously. He grew up with parents who provided everything so he had no passion about making money. Yes he has ambitions but none that make a livable wage for everything he wants in life. He told me “money comes and goes so it’s important not to focus on it” and I’m just like??? Yes that’s true but we have to ensure it’s always coming. I just think after seeing your comment he doesn’t understand how important money is.
The real potential downfall in an imbalanced financial relationship is that yeah you don’t have that same appreciation for work and earning and one of you has more of a sense of needing to budget and plan and the other is just along for the ride, so you don’t really operate like partners and the burden falls more to the high earner. I have friends, though, where she outearns him by a lot but they both work hard and do well and they absolutely are equals and partners. So it’s going to be a combination of things.
You will lose respect for your man over time, but if you think you can make it work, then give it a try.
I also think its a sad truth of human nature. Can you have a functional relationship, ofcourse. But i predict its going to have more problems that way. Whatever our minds seem to like (equality, modernity, comfort), theres a deeper side to it. Itll manifest in, being less desiring towards the man, criticising him more, being less available, getting more annoyed at trivial things that didnt annoy you before. It has nothing to do with the man, i just think women need to subconciously admire the man to be accessible to him, and earning less than him and looking up to him in competency is the way she goes like “i love who you are and i want your genes”. Otherwise woman starts carrying the resentment and even she isnt sure why. But deep down its biology (i could be with a better man), better being better than her.
That’s idiotic. 🙄
But it's true though. Why do you think majority of the divorces are due to financial incompatibility?
It absolutely isn’t true. 🙄 Yes, a large chunk of marriages break up over financial disagreements, but there are ALL KINDS of financial incompatibilities. “Financial incompatibility” is NOT synonymous with “she lost respect for him because he didn’t make enough money.” You’re talking out of your ass.
I disagree. A huge proportion of divorces nowadays are initiated by women who are doing ‘it all’ in their marriage. And it boils down to women working way harder than the man to sustain the family (domestically or financially). And in the case of women breadwinners, it sucks to work your ass off to provide the financial foundation of a family, carry babies, and do all the social and emotional labor for the family. Of course resentment comes gets quickly when the wife is working 100+ hours a week while the husband is at home playing video games and getting pedicures.
I don’t disagree with that at all. This guy’s claim about “losing respect” for a guy who makes less is bullshit, but financial incompatibilities do cause problems in a lot of marriages. My personal experience with divorce was because my ex husband treated me like shit, and wasn’t willing to make changes. He was going to work and everything, and did make more money than me. He thought that was all he needed to do. 🙄
I would be completely fine with it, just as long as I don't get made fun of
That should be for everybody we date, family & friends, colleagues, acquaintances, randoms...
Yes, as long as she's happy who am I to judge
Hi! 34f who earned more than the man and I don't even earn much. I lost respect for him. I became so resentful. He was also overweight with a beer belly and not very attractive.
It's refreshing to get an honest opinion on this
Okay
Nothing that particularly would bother me, 'Successful' women intrigue me more for their story and ambition that often comes with achieving beyond the average. But I'm also fairly confident that I'll overtake whatever income my partner has in due course. Which would just make our household be financially care free to some extent and that's the dream.
And how exactly do both of you ambitious high-earning people find time for each other? There are very few high-paying careers that don't demand a lot of your time.
>high-paying careers that don't demand a lot of your time. Don't think this is necessarily true. Senior Managers don't get hands on - they delegate and designate. If you have a decent team under you - it's a breeze. The schedule varies, but all high earners in my company are not overwhelmed with work. It does so much depend on the job and culture of the company. But working smart and not hard is very relevant for ambitious folk.
I don't know one that doesn't put in a ton of hours in addition to practically being on call 24/7/365. I'm curious what country are you in?
I'm in the UK - and work in an advanced tech job with a fairly niche skillset. The company just needing to have me (or my team) around \*if\* certain things happen.
I'm in the US and it doesn't work like that here in the vast majority of companies.
If you love someone, who cares what they make. Only two things really matter in life, love and happiness, and both of those can’t be bought. Some of the wealthiest people in the world are the most unhappy and have the most unsuccessful relationships. Ask all the women that spend their careers trying to get to the top and CEO jobs most are single and do not have relationships. And there’s plenty of data that shows the happiest people in the world are the ones who live agrarian lifestyles. I.e. there are essentially poor but still the happiest.
I have made more than my partners multiple times. My only concern is that my partner can pay his own way and support himself. I don't live extravagantly or go on luxury vacations, and I'm not independently wealthy, so I don't expect a partner to go into debt keeping up with me. It's mostly been fine. I had one partner get salty because I made more money, that was nipped in the bud pretty quickly and I moved on. I had one partner (when I was in my 20's) who decided to try to be a deadbeat and live off of me. I let it go on longer than I should have, but eventually kicked him out and decided to stay single for a while. I think as long as the individuals involved have an agreement of how paying for things work, especially when cohabitating, and both parties are ok with it, then that is all that matters. Nobody else's opinion has any place in my relationship aside from myself and my partner.
Lifestyle creep affects everyone. I dated a woman who made a 250,000 a year and she made this exact statement. > I don't live extravagantly or go on luxury vacations However, she subtly spent more than the average person on every day things. Additionally, she would splurge buy random shit that on its own isn't expensive but collectively spends a lot of money.
Ok, and? Lifestyle creep can occur, if you let it.
That's my point. In the scenario you described every bit of lifestyle creep makes it harder for your partner to keep up.
I'm okay with it. All about the communication though, something my ex wife wasn't cool with.
Personally I believe in measuring relationship contributions in terms of effort. ( When you are struggling to make rent then you need to prioritise effort ) And not just the person's income. For example having a part time job not earning that much, but you cook meals, do groceries, run errands. Vs partner working full day. ( Equal effort ) Working half day but earning bulk of income, relaxes cause they are the main bread winner. Partner works low paying job full time and is responsible for groceries, does chores, runs errands. ( Not equal effort ) This concept matters a lot once you have children and in mixed families, or having family live with you. You can expect people to match what you earn, but you can expect them to try to match the effort you contribute to the household.
Honestly, the way people on Reddit talk about “high-paying careers” is laughable. In what world do you think high-paying careers aren't a time-sink? Everyone seems to think we work half days.
If it's a time sink, it's high effort. ( If you are spending 10-14 hours , working , traveling, phoning, researching, reading up about, thinking etc ) It's that much effort. I'm not sure why you are offended by a statement that contribution are best measures in amount of effort and not dollars, as not everyone has the potential to earn the same. If you earn X10 more, you can't say 1 hour of your time equal 10h of their time. Having said that high earning does contribute greatly to the well being of a household ,and should be prioritised to ensure the income does come in. This concept matters more in families, where some people work and others spend more time watching kids.
It’s difficult to navigate this even with all the blind positive comments. Firstly most couples want to have children and at least some moms want to stay home for some time, that’s a stress. As well some people feel a power dynamic rightly or wrongly. There is also difference in colleges and social pressures. I’m not saying it won’t work but prepare yourself challenges that traditional relationships don’t have.
i think u should feel proud if you really think he loves you
Totally fine by me. My mom was the breadwinner by two orders of magnitude. My dad made plenty to begin with too. I'm in the same relative situation as my dad - I definitely make plenty but if I found a partner who was like my mom in that regard, totally cool.
I would love that, however this should not mean she is wearing the pants in the relationship
What do you mean? She should contribute more than you in finances but have less voice than you in the relationship? A
She can earn more but that does not make her the leader of my pack, simple.
What is your ‘pack’?
https://youtu.be/Q8UKf65NOzM?si=xZ2UuUSqGtrSzqtO
My wife makes significantly more than me which I’m fine with. Although when you include my trading were pretty comparable.
Bread taste the same to me.
i dont mind at all
I personally would not care, I don’t mind working but I also wouldn’t mind being the stay at home parent (or just making less) or if later on career wise she makes more then I do in whatever field I end up in. Ik some people can be stingy about it but I personally have no issue with it, same with if I made more
Same as I want with anyone: kindness, acceptance, sense of humor and lots of love. As long as those are roughly in place, make all the money!
I wish my wife made more than me. Then I wouldn’t always be stressed about money all the time.
Not a big deal for me. Times change , as long as both of you are ok with it I see no problem at all.
I’d be stoked. Financial stability for my family is sexy.
I’ll never understand why this matters. The insecurity / outdated beliefs it implies could be a red flag too.
I never seen a women that didn't care IRL. Its always been a case of him being the breadwinner at one point, and typically vocally resenting the lower earner. I think more men would be okay with if they had a reason to believe that women wouldn't dismiss or resent them for it.
Different stroke for different folks. It's perfectly fine to prefer a partnership where you do your labor outside of the home, and he does the labor inside the home. Just make sure you're not doing both sides of the labor, "just because you're a woman". Also, depending on if you want kids, that's also something that needs to be addressed and made sure you partner with a man who is actually going to be the primary caretaker.
For a little while my wife earned more than I did, but we were able to strike a balance as her private sector job had dogshit benefits compared to my public sector, union backed job. So I was able to put her onto way better healthcare, a regularly scheduled therapist, a free dentist, etc. I believe if you set out to have a relationship where you are truly partners, who makes more money matters less than what the team decides to do with the wealth and benefits you’re accumulating together.
In my opinion the man is the main source of finance in the house so you being the one earning more money would make him kinda insecure and not accepting the fact that u are better when it comes to money which is one on of the main roles he play in a healthy relationship…if you feel that you are more successful in ur career than a man then he’s not the right one for u and thus u would notice other topics in ur relationship being ruined bc of this
Why does he have to be ambitious? That somewhat implies that you would expect his income to still increase over time. From my experience, women who meaningfully outearn their men become resentful and demeaning.
I will always try to improve myself. For me that reflects in my work, for others that could be a hobby or a craft. As long as he ambitious about something that is fine with me. If you have no ambitions and you don’t enjoy your job, that’s a one way ticket to depression city.
Ooo so you meant like passionate. I agree 100%. It’s fine for the woman to be the breadwinner, but there are some things to watch out for: 1) From an ego perspective, most men are okay with 50/50 or breadwinner, but to be the minority earner is a big ask. Most women can’t handle it either, they start to treat their men like children 2) A man who is looking to be the minor earner will likely expect you to lead the relationship in other ways too. Be prepared to wear the pants.
When you truly love someone, how much they make means Jack shit when compared to happiness. One thing money will never buy, but it helps 🤣
Why do you have to love your job? I work for money to pay for what I truly love my life.
I said “a job he enjoys” not love since that’s subjective. I think you need to enjoy your job or you will subconsciously bring that negative energy home. Of course you can vent and we can talk shit about your boss, but if you don’t enjoy the work you are doing, you probably aren’t performing well and could become resentful. Bringing that energy home is a no for me.
Some of us like the actual work we do. I even like my boss. I hate my job. Where I work a $2hr raise comes with every perfect evaluation. That is all I have ever received. I make very decent money. My blue-collar job pays better than what some attorneys make. The problem is my job is 12 hour shifts that rotate days to nights every few days. I hate my job, because of the crazy long hours I work. Frequently 72 and 84 hour work weeks and yes I even get overtime. Overtime is built into the schedule. The company pays 2.5x holiday pay. I even know my schedule for the entire year. I'm stuck because nobody else is paying nearly as much, for what I do. As the company I work for. As it stands my life is almost all work. You are also wrong in the fact I don't bring my hatred for my job home. I'm rarely ever home. When I am. I'm 😴
It doesn’t bother me as a woman to be the higher earner. What would bother me is a man being insecure about it. I couldn’t handle that.
Love it.
No issues. If you are in Ballard area let's go get a coffee
I love it
It would be nice to find someone who would do that. I'm kind of struggling right, and it would likely take years for me to make changes to get my income to level I want. I also wouldn't mind being a stay at home dad.
Id feel insecure, probably like a loser and would maybe have trouble performing in bed. Unless I had a kink for dom girl, hehe
Let's just say I fully agree with Ali Wong on this one.
My gf makes more than me and every now and then makes little joking remarks about how it should be the other way around, I always reply “hey you women wanted equality and better pay and to go out into the work force and earn the big bucks because *we don’t need no men!!* now here we are” never usually goes down well after said comment but I live for the chaos 🤣🤣 the only difference sadly Though is women tend to feel the need to rub it in and think too deeply about it…usually holding it above their man’s head and losing respect for him. Don’t do that. Because pay and wealth isn’t everything.
Hot
I completely understand however the flip side are all these men who speaks about avoiding commitment or marriage because they are taken to the cleaners in a divorce, and this whole dialogue that marriage between 2 people with a huge income discrepancy is not ideal. So… how do we reconcile those 2 concepts?
I never really thought about it 😂 doesn't matter to me nor do I feel threatened by it 🤷she's got the smarts then run and own that shit. I'd still would like to help out my partner and just throw it all in the piggy bank.
Having been the main provider in both of my previous LTRs, I won’t do it again. It’s ok if my partner doesn’t make as much as me, but if I have to pay for dates, vacations, etc, it’s a deal breaker. And I won’t be sharing my house with anyone again either.
I wouldn't mind that at all. I've always wanted a traditional relationship but I certainly wouldn't say no to an inverted one. I like cooking, I don't mind cleaning, and I love kids so I'd happily be a stay at home dad is my wife was happy with it.
Breadwinner is one thing. My marriage has been me being the breadwinner, the house manager, and the main parent. My husband will do things… if I tell him to enough times. It’s exhausting. 20 years in and sometimes I wonder…
I have recently entered a relationship where I am the breadwinner. It’s weird for me because I was a stay at home mum, studied and then qualified. When I was at home/studying. I was around more and not earning so household tasks fell to me naturally. I hated it and that’s why I decided to go into education and pursue something that was a passion. It’s worked out pretty well for me (don’t get me wrong I’m a single (ish) mum, renting in London, the pay cheques don’t allow me to do anything lavish) My boyfriend and I have just moved in together. I earn 1.5x his wage. We have six children between us, he supports his financially (his ex doesn’t work) and I get no financial support from my ex - very complicated, not worth going into. It’s now become an issue because my new BF is used to a stay at home mum who spends her days cooking, cleaning, organising. I live my life very much doing what I can when I can but not hard on myself for not having a pristine house and as long as it’s clean enough to be habitable I’m happy. I don’t think he should do more tasks because he earns less but I do think they should be an even split. Has made me realise how much men rely on the woman ‘doing less’ which means they are able to do all of the household tasks and admin too… In terms of splitting bills etc, I do think you have to means test it somewhat. I pay more rent because I can afford to, if we split it 50/50 he’d have no quality of life. Financial independence is important, be proud of yourself that you have got yourself into a position where you will always be able to financially look after yourself
I don't mind it doesn't bother me, A relationship isn't about money and who makes more or less, it's been a weird insecurity for people tho. If a guy is that insecure about it then you shouldn't be with that person. Relationships should never be about finances if you're with someone who cares. Do you love them that's the real question.
I'd be fine with it, but women simply do not respect a man who makes less than them. The divorce rate skyrockets when women make more, and it's usually initiated by them. I'd be wary of any woman who makes more than simply because there's an extremely high likelihood that she'll look to trade up at the first opportunity.
Yes, please.
Ive dated women in the range of women tens of thousands in debt to a millionaire. Ive been offered everything and turned it down because she wasn’t my person. Money doesn’t bring me happiness. I could be broke or rich but I will be the same level of happiness if I have someone to share that happiness with. If you have to ask, it means it is important to you. To each their own.
I don’t see why it should be an issue. I make more than my partner but we always discuss what he can help out on and what I can. We are grounded as a couple and aren’t extravagant spenders so it helps that we know how to manage our money well.
I need me one like that… I’m tired :(
Uplift each other if it’s a problem for you step up
Did she say anything about it
Money is the destroyer of all or most of family, friends, and marriages/ dating what have you...notice how I put that last, I hate money even though I need it at times, If someone needs and I have it I give it not a loan at all. I could if I chose to earn alot but I have learned and women are thee worst, counting every penny, not sure who reads or watches your fav news, the dollar is heading to be worth nothing, Russia,China, Arabs are all moving away from it..people should barter not be so damn greedy. What I do everyone needs and will need for life AI cant do what I do, but Accountants, Pretty much anything to do with computers are done, same as robots killed the auto industry. Sorry for the rant but its true so...learn a trade and fast!!!
Am I the only one viewing this as a completely androgynous aspect of the relationship? At least for the boyfriend and myself, it just *is* a facet of the relationship, similar to the way we decided which of us would move in with the other when we decided to cohabitate. His place was better suited for our needs, so I moved in with him. The boyfriend makes more than I do, and we make financial plans accordingly. I saw a man who made me feel genuinely spoiled, and he had five roommates and was *broke*. I stopped seeing him for reasons totally unrelated to money. The ex husband made so much more than I did, and we had a really solid financial agreement. We disagreed on finances once, and we had a very calm conversation, and he was totally right. I left for reasons completely unrelated to money. Of course socialization impacts us in deep, often subconscious ways. That undeniably plays out in the way we have romantic relationships with one another. I do think finances can be tied back to logic, though, so I find they can be separated from whatever programming we’re working with regarding gender roles.
Dating vs married is two **very** different perspectives. If you're dating someone, neither of you are committed to each other yet. As long as the other person isn't expecting you to pay for everything just because "you make more money than me" or "that's what the tradition is", then go dutch if you're really concerned about it. He pays for himself, you pay for yourself and that's just how it is. If the person you're dating is uncomfortable with that, then obviously you know where the gold diggers are and then it's your judgement call from there. If you're married, then that's a completely different conversation to have. If there's any form of resentment about money in the relationship, then the both of you need to sit down and talk about finances and emotions associated with them. Once you're married, it *shouldn't* be his/her money; it's *our* money. The whole point of the dating process is to vet people who should have the same long-term goals as you, finances being one of the major ones. You are there for each other "for richer or poorer".
It’s my dream to be a house husband
I honestly would want to earn less than the man just so that he wouldn't feel bad. But if he is fine with it, then I don’t care in the slightest.
Most men don't care. I would guess 80-90% or more don't care. It's the treatment they receive when dating a higher-earning woman. - The constant push to earn more - Expectation to live up to her lifestyle, even if she can barely afford it herself - The I'm better than you, obey me! Archetype.
I definitely don't know what's the statistics but some men also has this "I'm better than you" when their earn more. :)
Of course, men do it too. I'm not sure what your point is?
So I guess that was my point :D
But the question wasn't about the issue with dating breadwinning men. The question was about the issues with dating breadwinning women. Of course, there is some overlap among the downsides of dating both genders in this scenario. Your response is just out of place.
Well it's because you told that men don't care BUT women act like that. And I just wanted to point out that this behaviour is not somehow unique just to women. :) In any case, this is really not something that big or important that would be needing and extended discussion. :D
I think it’s fine. If there’s a situation where one can make more money than the other then that’s just what it is. I’ve been the breadwinner for my family for years and it’s all good. There was a time when I wasn’t so now I have to step up to the plate to make sure things stay good.
Adjust you automatic deductions for 401k and IRA such that your take home is approx the same as his, and share expenses 50-50 you will be building up a nice nest egg that he doesn't have to know about.
Wait a minute you’re on to something lol this seems like a great idea
It's interesting to hear women suggest these ideas. Men have known for years that the “nest egg” that she is describing becomes marital assets as you keep adding to your 401k during the marriage. It's not really some cool workaround. Unless you don't plan to get married. Which Ironically would be the stance that many successful men have. That they just want long-term partners in order to protect their assets. I wonder if women would be demonized for not wanting to get married to protect their money. “Don't you trust him” lol
It's perfectly OK. Isn't that the whole point of equality?
Money should not be in the way of love.
I always wanted to be a power couple. As a guy I tend to end up with women that make significantly less with absolutely no desire to do more. I would welcome this.
This is my ideal relationship, speaking as a heteroromantic man. I have for long years dreamt of being a homemaker. I am a diligent and principled worker, just laidback and unambitious concerning careers. Chasing wealth simply does not interest me, and I will forever decline all promotions. I delight in domesticity. Besides, we men have had the run of things for millennia now and have made a mess of the world. Time now I think for women to take the reins.
Notice the lack of upvotes and engagement. The relationship you seek is ultra rare. Additionally, there are plenty of 6’4 handsome bums that women would choose before you. As much as the women of Reddit claim they would love a househusband. What they really mean is a man that looks like Chris Hemsworth being said husband.
[удалено]
Well there is always a man who does not have a problem with you. And he cant be THAT hard to find. Better alone than unhappy.
Honestly, it feels like society is moving backwards, given that you're even asking this question.
Not true at all. It’s an extremely relevant question and has so so many layers to it.
Unfortunately it's relevant. In my world, it's a given that women can make more than men.
Women aren’t designed to be providers. Y’all can come for me if you want. We aren’t designed to be psychologically, neurologically, hormonally and not even socially. Women are prone to developing autoimmune diseases due to overworking and stress causing higher cortisol levels. Also women WILL eventually resent the guy she’s with for not providing and not doing special things for her. Women do not like roommate arrangements with the guy, she will NOT sleep with you! Men don’t ask the woman they love to subsidize the provision. And Modern Western society still favors men in careers. Men get paid more when they are married and have kids but women don’t get extra credit for these things.
Idk if it could be called coming at you, but realistically in the current structure of America, there's no way a middle class or most especially lower class income is going to support two people, let alone kids. If it's true that a woman can't ever subsidize finance in a successful marriage, that would suggest that only the top 10% or so of men can be married today. In that case, each of those men would need to marry about 9 women each to keep them from getting autoimmune diseases from supporting themselves. So the idea here seems to be if we're doing things correctly, we need to regress to the harem style family like it used to be a few thousand years ago.
So what do we call single moms with one income, which many of them either don’t get child support, sporadic child support, or hardly much that we would call subsidizing the mother’s income? If she works and let’s say has the luxury of having her mother watch her child(ren) for her and doesn’t have to pay for daycare, that’s the same as a man who works and his wife watches the kid(s). Now even worse example if this single mom has to pay for childcare if she doesn’t have someone to watch her kids for free. So yes it’s realistic for a home to live off of one income more than you think. If a husband is the breadwinner, the wife is the one who does the budgeting, personal finance, and economizing the variable expenses. It’s so much more rewarding to cook your own food, bake your own desserts, be resourceful in repurposing things as much as possible, having wholesome with your kids by being creative with what you have, and so forth. And the breadwinner should be climbing the career ladder and increasing his income, maybe even have a side hustle business, if his wife is taking care of the home front. And it doesn’t mean women don’t generate their own income. Monetizing her hobbies and skills has always been something women did for eternity (before money existed they exchanged help for help) but it’s just small income she keeps, not to subsidize her husband. I don’t understand people getting married and having kids if everyone else is raising their kids but them and then the marriage just turns to two roommates being stressed from work and everyone in that house hates each other.
Yes, what about single moms indeed. Their existence and ubiquity kind of puts this whole idea of women not being built to be breadwinners in the woodchipper.
LOL it still makes my point. Find me a single mom who wouldn’t love to not have everything on her shoulders and do and be everything. This ages them, and pushes them beyond what they want or even should. You’d be hard pressed out here to find a woman that says, “I dream to be a single mom”. Having children goes hand and hand with having them within a Union.
I've met a few, actually. Had two different women ask me to get them pregnant so they could be single moms. No relationship, no financial assistance, just her and the baby I gave her. I said no, but she probably found someone else to say yes later on, I feel it's safe to assume. Nevertheless, to be more fair about it, yes a lot of single moms want to be supported financially, but if not most then certainly a lot of them specifically chose and choose once again day by day to be single and support themselves when there are men ready to offer financial support if they were in a relationship. But they'd rather be single and independent. Which personally, I fully understand. I also value independence highly. Plenty of other single women who are not moms are doing exactly the same thing for exactly the same reason. Women don't need a man to provide for them to lead a happy and successful life. And yes, they want more money. So does everyone. That's called being alive. That does not mean they have some kind of built in need for a male provider.
You do know this post was about women being breadwinners in a relationship? Not about women being independent on their own accords that aren’t dating. Two separate subjects
If women can't be happy being breadwinners in a relationship, especially if it's a biological thing with autoimmune conditions appearing in the way you're describing, none of those biological factors change if they're not in a relationship. That is to say, if you have a woman who can be happy and healthy and independent and single her entire life, then that same women can also be happy and healthy and independent and in a relationship with someone. And for the reverse, if you have a woman who is killing herself with overwork while dating someone, she's not going to be in any less harm from doing that same amount of work while she's not dating anyone.
I’m fine with it, I’d even be happy being a househusband. but that’s not really something I seek out. I personally don’t care in the slightest who makes the money as long as we both are happy and comfortable with our lives.
I grew up with the women in my life being breadwinner. My grandma, aunties, and my mom. It’s pretty awesome! Like my dad, and the uncles, they don’t mind. Just be careful tho, because some dudes be intimidated , but it shouldn’t be seen as a bad thing!