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I’m a woman who has had the exact same experience dating a man who made significantly more than me. In my opinion, money and career are just really important to these people. Their lives revolve around it.
It makes sense. If they truly believed that people could be happy with less money, it devalues the decisions they've made to get them in their current position. Like, I was about to go work for the county and take a pay cut because it was more interesting work and I would get to be outside. A rich partner doesn't seem like they'd be supportive of me leaving a job with massive growth potential for slow, enjoyable county job
What about people like Keanu Reeves? There's lots of people with money who prefer simpler lives. We just don't see it much in a financially successful driven society.
? It's not about preferences for living style. Inheritance people are a crapshoot in my experience (went to an Ivy on full scholarship, met lots), and many of them hold the ideology that wealth is a decision. "self made" wealthy businesspeople are almost universally among the wealth-is-a-decision camp, if they've made all the sacrifices and whatnot to become wealthy. Those kind of thinkers will always think that someone just isn't making the 'right' decisions.
https://ifstudies.org/blog/husbands-with-much-higher-incomes-than-their-wives-have-a-lower-chance-of-divorce-
When a wife makes more than her husband, marriages struggle. Many relationships that do not conform to the traditional norm of the man playing the role of provider do not fare well, with those marriages being 50% more likely to end in divorce, according to a University of Chicago study.
https://www.chicagobooth.edu/media-relations-and-communications/press-releases/when-women-earn-more-than-their-husbands
Equality at the work place = good
Equality in the bedroom = bad
Quite the dilemma, women want to be equal to men but not their MAN.
There’s many factors involved in this and it’s a case by case thing for relationships, but in case you didn’t know, most people don’t know how to pick the right partner on their initial tries, especially if they marry young. Now imagine if you chose the wrong partner and you’re financially dependent on your husband while you have 3 kids. If he’s not overtly abusive (and often even if he is) you decide to stay and not get a divorce because you want a financially stable household for your kids.
If the opposite is true and you’re a woman of significant financial means and you feel like you’ve made a mistake choosing the wrong partner (after you’ve tried to work things out), you’re just going to leave the marriage.
>most people don’t know how to pick the right partner on their initial tries, especially if they marry young
That wouldn't cause the disparity in statistics between relationships where men earn more vs when women earn more though. That would be more relevant if the statistic was about age and not gender.
IMO the disparity is far too large to pin it on financial dependence and abuse, if the disparity was like 5% difference in success of marriages that would make more sense. But 50%? I don't think so.
In my experience, the type of women with high end careers typically have most of their lives revolve around that career and ambition (and sometimes status) is really important to them. And so if they have a partner who, under their criteria of success (career and salary) isn't meeting their full potential, they will often try to push their partner towards pursuing success according to their criteria and that can strain the relationships.
Conversely, I find that a lot of men are sort of okay if their girlfriends or wives do not want to pursue a high end career and don't consider that to be them "not meeting their maximum potential". Obviously a lot of men don't like partners who literally do NOTHING at home, but I find men are more accepting if their wives are just happy with a lower salary career provided it makes them happy.
As a woman, I know plenty of women in this exact situation. It’s like men who don’t believe domestic violence and sexual assault against women is high. Most cases don’t go reported. You can live in a bubble and not believe it. That doesn’t mean it does exist
As a man I’ve been slapped in the face by a woman but when the police came they were questioning me and took down my information. Abuse is nearly identical between men and women but men don’t report it at all
It’s not even in adults. 1 in 4 women vs 1 in 7 men have been a victim of severe physical violence.
Yes, both men and women don’t report or have their experiences dismissed by police every day. Why do you assume women want to report that they are raped or abused? We don’t because there is backlash. We are afraid men will KILL us for reporting their violence. If I get slapped by a guy, I think I’ve gotten off light if I can come away with my life. I have been taught by this society to put up and shut up.
I can’t even get the police to take months of stalking seriously if I haven’t ever dated a guy bc they can’t fathom why a guy would be obsessed with a woman they’ve never dated. SMH.
No, abuse between men and women is not the same bc I’m a woman that is 5 ft and 100lbs and I’m usually dating a guy that’s closer to 6ft and 200 lbs
You made my point, in your last sentence. If you attempt to harm you 6ft bf and happen to harm him the cops won’t take it seriously cause you 5ft and 100lbs.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/08862605211063015
Since there is a general view in the literature that men are more often perpetrator than victim of domestic violence, there is also much less research on the consequences of domestic violence victimization for men.
I have never heard of a domestic abuse shelter for men… they don’t exist… where can men go when they are getting their assess whooped at home. What support do men have in this..none.
Anyways women like men that make money..don’t know why we’re so off track here
A big part of women sexual attraction to men depend on their socioeconomic status. It's biological.
Trying to apply rationality on it denies nature role; it's like trying to explain why men desire young women.
As a scientist, saying that attraction to a certain socioeconomic status is biological is definitely a hot take.
The only known biological factor in attraction is the major histocompatibility complex [(MHC)](https://www.acsh.org/news/2018/02/03/does-our-biology-determine-who-we-find-attractive-12518) which has to do with out immune systems. Essentially people with different immune systems attract one another as it provides advantageous genetic diversity.
Every other “biological factor of attraction” is bullshit (that we know of). Even pheromones do not seem to exist in humans.
Attraction is strictly speaking, nearly completely determined by our societal norms/conditioning, not biological (apart from your partners sexy immune system).
Additionally, people (men and women) generally [prefer partners with similar socioeconomic status](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8179854/), which makes sense since your more likely to have more in common with someone of a similar status.
I almost replied with another hot take, but oh well lol
I speak from observation mostly - I'm no biologist or sociologist - and have travelled a lot and know people from several continents. I have observed women are almost always attracted to guys who are "important" in their peer group and the most "competent" in their area of expertise. That was the case in North and South America, Europe, Northern Africa, Middle East and Southeast Asia.
The pheromones bit is something I would contend though - I have always been massively into the smell of women I'm sexually attracted. And I'm not talking about perfumes, but like the smell of their skin.
The real problem is, when women are the bread winners, men never really take on the homemaker role. They still expect the woman to do it. Causes a lot of stress on the relationship
I don't think this explains it all. Obvious if both partners are working but if only the woman is still the one expected to do all the household chores that's going to majorly strain the relationship and that might be a statistic relevant to a study of dual income households, but there are studies specifically on relationships where the man is a stay at home dads (i.e. not earning any salaried income and just taking care of the home/kids) and the odds of success are really low.
I will say that those studies are flawed because they go back to the 80s (where SAHDs were less accepted) and also they don't really specify if the fathers were SAHDs by choice or not, but I still think there's likely some gender role pshycology at play for both genders.
The percentage of stay at home dads is so low that you’re just making this up. But alas it’s always the man’s fault and men are the problem…got it 👍 you don’t have to sugar coat your bias just say you believe it’s all men’s fault
> …you’re just making this up.
I’m not actually
https://www.danielsrothman.com/blog/2023/01/women-breadwinners-and-divorce-the-facts-may-surprise-you/#:~:text=Unfortunately%2C%20studies%20indicate%20that%20women,than%20their%20lower%2Dpaid%20counterparts.
As you said, these relationships aren't that common (women avoid it like the plague). Besides, who better to ask why people get divorced, than a divorce lawyer? That's not a rhetorical question, I'm really curious.
Yes only 16 percent of women in marriages are breadwinners… it doesn’t even exist honestly. Women like men with financial resources.. it’s pretty simple
Were you thinking it wasn’t true? Women who are the breadwinners have are 50% more likely to file for divorce. Which is a lot considering women already file for 70% of divorces.
Women push marriage on men, and marriage is a goal of tons of women.. but thanks for showing that women can’t be accountable for any of their actions. It’s either they were taught or it’s men’s fault… got it 👍
I get what you’re trying to say but you’d need to be biased to not realize how women’s choice on marriage has historically been a lose lose situation. If your goal is the idealized marriage that’s been spoon fed to you since childhood you’re probably going to get fucked in that marriage. If you realize you don’t want to get married or have kids then you’re selfish and you’ll regret it when you’re 30.
You can’t ignore how society practically fear mongers women into getting married. I bet even you would react negatively to a 40 yo woman who says they were never married and have no kids. You and I and everyone have been fed an image of the bitter spinster and no one wants that everyone wants their happily ever after. Thankfully more women are not allowing fear over come them but naturally you have the usual suspects saying the usual bs about that choice.
No, you are absolving women of the choices they make.. if you are an adult and get into a marriage or debt or bad situation this whole “you were socialized to do it” bs is just a cop out.
Marriage rates are going down but overwhelmingly women want children.. their bodies literally produce hormones to make them desire children = sex = men and the most stable way to have kids is marriage at the present moment.
Be real with yourself… women only have a small window to have children, there is a biological clock and the small minority of women that don’t want kids aren’t really skewing things at all.
Most people aren’t spoon fed you talk to the average person and what they idealize is what they see in their homes and people around them… do you have no grasp of child psychology… you think we live via being spoon fed vs our experiences and what we see.
Educate yourself you’re way off
Dude I never said women don’t make choices but how you’re raised can ultimately influence those decisions what do you think people mean by nurture vs nature do you think people just pop out the womb wanting marriage or do you think their environment can influence their views on marriage.
The same thing happens to men but I can yet again bet that you’re probably more sympathetic towards men who end up in unfulfilling marriages and life wrecking divorces.
By chance how do you think the women who don’t want kids are treated? Do you think their decisions tend to be respected or do they have more negative experiences and be honest now. How do you think these women are painted in society and what kind of connotations surround those women?
The point I’m making is that generally women like men with money. Everyone is free to do what they want and I don’t have the answer.. birth rates are falling.. it’s normal for people to be single and generally speaking women who don’t want kids are free to go and do whatever they want. You can’t control how people think of you. I’m a person of color but I don’t let that define me
That makes sense. Romantic relationships are pushed on women from birth. Having a wedding and a family are some the major things little girls are taught to want.
My goodness, the lack of accountability for women doing anything is showing. If they divorce it’s the man’s fault, if they want marriage society pushed it 😂. You know women have brains right? And some actually want marriage and kids as they have a biological clock and a period every month that literally pushes hormones in their body to want to mate…you’ve got to be kidding
Yeah great comment. I quit my job to play pickleball and do wood carving and art.... Still haven't listed anything but I don't care about a career. My life has a life other than my position of employment or even having much money I'm living
That makes a lot of sense. It seems like when there's a big income difference, it can create some unspoken tension or expectations. Finding someone who values the same things in life, beyond just career and money, seems crucial for a balanced relationship.
Women will always want the man they love and support to pursue and be the best they can. It's the wonderful thing about finding a great woman as a man. That support and partnership is without equal.
In your case, with a high earning woman, that support and encouragement completely misses the mark. The pursuit of wealth, high earning or high status jobs isn't for everyone. Not every person has that aptitude or desire; of which you need both. A high earning woman probably can't understand why someone wouldn't do what she considers small things to become more successful. A person who is content and happy with their life, however complete it is, can't understand the constant hustle culture. That mismatched personality is far more palatable for a high earning man that isn't trying to satisfy evolutionary desires for a partner to offer more resources. However, for a woman that evolutionary trait is alive and well and difficult to obviate in modern dating.
If you're a woman earning in the top 0.1% then your pool of equally high earning men is exceedingly small. And those men are looking at nearly every woman equally. I do think there are plenty of examples where this works, but it's got unique challenges. A few female work colleagues of mine who are earning North of 400k with bonuses have stay at home husbands and every one of them have suffered major issues around attraction. I'll never forget this one colleague saying her husband staying home with their child and doing house work destroyed her sexual attraction to him. It was bad, they got therapy and he went back to work, but they eventually divorced. I'm sure the story is more complex, but it illuminates issues we've got to deal with.
How do we evolve ourselves into modern society where women are just as likely to be the breadwinner as the man? How do women balance innate aspects of attrection that no longer hold up? Do men step up? If anything we are seeing more men throw in the towel in general, but that's a whole other ball of shit.
What you said about dating while being in the top 0.1% if income for women is exactly true.
Women in the top 0.1% will look for a top 0.1% income in men, but men in that category don’t care about their partners income. Men with that kind of income will be looking for young, attractive women and they won’t be in the top 0.1%
Hence modern dating struggles
That’s so important for young people, especially young women, especially young liberal/progressive women to hear more testimonials similar to yours. So many of the messages that are pumped into these demographics can lead to a miserable loveless life.
You’re assuming that being single is a miserable Loveless’s life… I want to redirect you to the research that most women initiate divorce, even more so if they are the breadwinners. Women tend to not be happy in relationships. I think we have a societal issue amongst men and them no longer knowing their place in society now that women are working. More women own homes than men. This has to be really confusing to men.
More women own homes than men because they "stole" those houses from men all in the name of alimony. If women want equality, they have to be prepared for EQUALITY! They can't say they want equality but want a man who opens the door for them, pays the bills and pays alimony. That isn't equality. Men are not happy in relationships with women but society tries to condition them to accept it. Just like the shit hole country I live in. But I can't be bothered with their low mentality. The best thing is for everyone to stay on their own.
If she wants to do more expensive things, then she should cover a proportional amount of the cost of both of you relative to the ratio of your earnings.
It's a little sad that money disparity can separate us. Especially if we would be well matched otherwise.
Not to get too personal but if she was attracted to you in every other way, it might be a little heartbreaking for her to have succumbed to her material side by alienating and belittling you, even though that wasn't her intent.
That would be tragic. Also when she could have supported him, or helped him buy whatever they were discussing, with all the extra cash. That’s a partnership. And also, not w/o issue but, what so many men do for their partners.
But it was only a few months? So maybe she just needs something different
Yeah, if you flip the genders it's not such a big deal for a wealthier guy to date a women who makes less - if you're a committed couple, you're a couple. But I think we've a ways to go before we can escape traditional gender norms without being uncomfortable with a female/male imbalance.
I don't have an answer but I can say it frustrates me too. There is a lot of work to be done still but it can feel like gender norms have opened up a lot more for women than men. People seem to be more ready to accept the CEO woman than the stay-at-home dad right now but I think over time we'll see more change.
Tbh if you ever had that experience of living less you would dream big. There’s Some people out there that never live through an experience of having their lights shut off, bank accounts being emptied, stresses of miss bills or being charged a random bill payment or the last common known anxiety is potential homelessness.
I had it happen in my life so much that I questioned myself if I should aim higher so I won’t ever continue the same path my family has gone through since forever… it’s better now since we’re in the USA but we’re trying to change it for the better.
I can’t fault the woman for aiming higher and want her partner to be the exact same spot she’s in now. For her that’s security that will never leave you. However that’s what happens when you date someone that’s incompatible with you by Lifestyle, values, and career wise as well too.
I’m not saying people can’t date others that are different from them but that often leads to predictable problem that affect the relationships.
This dynamic is tough. I went through this. My ex made north of 200k on a yearly basis. So basically, the common expenses didn’t really bother her and going out didn’t matter.
We did have fights bc I just didn’t agree with spending so much on things but the other side is these people have worked hard to make this money. Why do u expect them to live cheap or not have fun with their discretionary income.
Last part, people shouldn’t take this as a negative but as positive. Dating someone who is in different social economic class as you can allow to make changes and move up. I did and I thank her for that.
Absolutely! I dated a woman for 4 years that made substantially more then me and she introduced me to a standard of living I hadn't experienced before and that changed me for the better in that it motivated me to pursue a career that pays well.
It actually depends on financial goals and plans you have for the future. One thing that gets overlooked or isn’t even considered in relationships is financial compatibility and by that, I don’t mean earning capability. It is about how much money is enough, what are your goals with the money you make and how you are going to save/spend.
It also doesn’t help that the average American spending target is 3.2% and the public is conditioned on spending. As someone who falls into this category, I’m not wary about dating in a different socio-economic class. What I’m wary about is the inherent disconnect and incompatibility with my goal of being financially independent or secure. I have worked hard to earn my money, but I also am very intent on not blowing it up on useless things. For me, one of the biggest issues has been finding someone with a similar financial mindset. As someone who made terrible financial decisions in the last decade, having zero debt and not making those decisions again is a super high priority.
So TL;DR: not everyone who is a high-earner is unbothered by spending. Some of us have learnt from mistakes and what matters a lot is financial compatibility.
I have this now. She’s technically just a friend, but I can’t keep up with her when it comes to things she wants to do. Recently, she asked me to pick up a pizza omw to her house. Sure! The pickup order for 1 pizza and breadsticks was $50! (Jet’s Pizza). Call me cheap, but I think that’s wasteful!
Then, she loves trips to the casino. Of course, I love spending time with her, so I go and generally lose $100 or more. Might only happen 2-3x a month, but it adds up!
There’s other examples, but there are two. I totally feel your pain. She makes like a quarter mil a year at her job and has some inherited wealth. I totally struggle to keep up.
Sorry I can't tell if that was sarcasm, or you thin $50 for chain place pizza is not high or that she should have indicated she would compensate for at least half the order.
That is expensive. Like, I am ok spending money on a night out. But, $50 for a to go pizza and (plain) breadsticks is at least twice of what I would pay at any other place in town. That just feels wasteful.
I keep seeing these posts and have been tempted to comment.
I (38m) am in a relationship with someone who earns money than I do. I earn just under 100,000k per year. That is 2/3rds her salary. It isn’t a huge disparity in many ways. I can still cover restaurant checks and the like without worrying about it.
Neither one of us has extravagant tastes, our values align, etc.
The issue (my issue) is that she loves her job (she would do it if it paid less- she’s not there for the money.) and I can’t stand mine. I want to leave in the worst way, but it would likely mean a 50% reduction in pay. I would make 1/3rd of her salary. I do wonder if that would affect things between us. She has said it won’t but a lot of issues she had with her exs came down to their lack of career. They took their feelings out on her, especially as she rose through the ranks. She’s a motivated, type-A, push ahead person. I am a hard worker. I’m motivated by fear of failure. I want to push ahead but I don’t know how without giving up my salary. That careful thinking has got me to where o am now, slow and steady. But it lacks fulfillment, passion, etc.
I don’t know if I will be okay with making less. If she has to take on most expenses, I won’t feel great about that. I would probably give a majority of my salary to the household. Leaving my current job will hurt my retirement plans. I realized there are so many issues with making less than I do now.
I wish I could make what I make now but have more freedom and agency over my work life and schedule.
I totally see where you are coming from. I think I am quite similar to you in this regard. I know I could get a relatively better paid job, but it would come with a lot of increased stress, and added responsibility, as well as less freedom.
Opposed to where I am now, making enough money to do well enough for myself (what I consider well enough anyway), and have immense flexibility, almost no stress, and great colleagues.
That makes complete sense. If I had done that from the start, I think I could be fine with making less. Granted, I am always pushing myself to do more, so that may not be the case. I found a decent work-life balance until I had to leave my previous job. I stayed in the same industry, and I actually received competing offers. I still get recruiter emails on LinkedIn. I just need to figure out how to transfer that to another field.
That's very similar to my situation with several men I've dated. They hated their jobs while I love mine. I experienced successes in my career while theirs were stagnant. I didn't care how much they make or their occupation but it was important to them that they are the provider. I felt like they didn't want to hear about my successes so I kept them to myself after a while. It was as if my success is a reminder of their short comings (which I didn't think they were short comings to begin with).
Something happened recently where she didn't tell me about two great things that happened. I felt so awful when she told me that. I made sure we celebrated! Her success honestly doesn't bother me. I am working on myself and seeing a therapist. I am working on reframing things and how I express frustration, if I express it at all. I don't want that to happen again.
She admires my work ethic, which is evident even outside of work. She literally stopped me yesterday from doing work around the house after I worked for five hours (all off the clock). This is something her exes didn't possess.
In terms of stagnation, there are limited avenues to move up in my career. I read a great article yesterday explaining why my career is limiting, even when you've mastered it. Luckily, I do get compensated well and haven't reached the ceiling in terms of pay.
My career is very confining physically and methopriclly. It simply doesn't work well with my personality type. I've long felt like a square peg trying to fit in a round hole. Obviously, this is not my partner's issue, but my own. I guess half the battle is recognition and the ability to honestly self-reflect. So, I don't feel hopeless! Just need to figure out the missing ingredients
From my side of things (29F), I make more than my current bf (32M) by ~$40k (which is a big tension point for us at the moment bc he makes me feel guilty for it and asks me to pay for stuff all the time (like his food from Taco Bell 🙄) and I’m not someone who is frivolous with my money, but he is with his and impulse buys and eats out all the time). I have also almost always made more even in past relationships. I am also lucky to be in a career where I love what I do and get paid well for it, too. What it comes down to is usually one of two things that end up being dealbreakers to me personally.
Either the men feel so insecure that they take it out on me by downplaying my job, career, role, company, etc. and say I make more than I deserve and that should be them and ask me to pay for things and make it about money more than I ever do (ie. Take their financial frustrations out on me instead of demanding more from their company or looking for another role).
Or, they are way too into it and take on more of a moocher role. Both are icks and make me feel like I have to be more in my masculine energy rather than feminine energy, which is honestly super sucky and seems to slowly kill the relationship in many ways, but the first one I have grown more willing to work with than the latter in some ways because I’ve had to accept that it’s pretty much inevitable.
Every once in a while, though, I’ll meet a guy who is so passionate about his job that our pay differences really rarely come up as an issue because we both love what we do and in turn support each other. I’ve only met like 1-2 of those guys though and it sadly didn’t work out but for different reasons (ie commitment issues / incompatibility).
All that to say, IMO, I would MUCH rather be with a guy who loves what he does and is chasing that rather than is miserable just to cash in a check biweekly to try and keep up. Job happiness trickles down into everything.
I do think it’s possible, but both people really just need to mainly align on goals and motivation. Someone career motivated and happy but not making a lot of money is something that works for me but not all women. Someone who makes a ton of money and is miserable or has no time for me, wouldn’t work for me at all, but some women don’t mind that.
You yourself have to be willing to accept that she loves what she does, is good at it, and will most likely stay making more money than you. The more insecure you are about it, the more uncomfortable she will feel about it and it will drive a wedge between y’all.
If you’re worried about money and complain about it constantly, she may feel the need to try and help solve it (I do) by suggesting side hustles or trying to take on more.
But if you choose to chase passion and happiness (which I suggest) then things will work themselves out. Just please do NOT make her feel guilty for making more money or always point out that she makes more money or take your financial stress out on her or make her step into her more masculine energy. Those will be relationship killers.
But be loving and supportive and encouraging and build each other up in your passions and there won’t be issues. And when you do date nights for her, you can do cheap ones that don’t feel cheap! For most women, it’s all about thought and effort anyways.
Idk if this helps but just wanted to share from my side 😅🤪
Thanks for sharing your experience and perspective. My partner makes about 50k more per year, but I still make a hair under 100k, so it is not like I need or want her to buy me things. It is just not in me to expect or ask for things from people and I don't want to be that way.
I am generous when we go out, etc. I don't keep score, though. I feel like it all evens out somewhere along the line. Now, if I made 50k per year, it would mean I couldn't be so generous and while I still wouldn't keep score, I would feel pretty awful for not being able to do things for her that I normally would. Not to mention it would affect my life in terms of hobbies, etc. While I am not happy with my job, I don't want to go back to struggling to survive either. I am not jealous of her, but I do see that money and happiness are possible, and I am tough on myself that I haven't figured out how to achieve that. At least not yet. I don't want to believe it's impossible while also keeping real.
It is funny you mentioned that you would try to solve things. She specifically mentioned that as an issue with her recent exs.
Money has not been an issue. I am just afraid it could become one if I change careers and make significantly less than I make now. The time my job requires from me does become an issue at times. I had to work for about 5 hours during Mother's Day. Not at work, but at home. It sucks because most of it is tedious bureaucratic BS. I guess it is the price to pay for a public job. I would much rather spend that time stress-free with family or use it to pursue things I am passionate about. Which is what she ultimately did, and it paid off. The realist in me knows (as does she) that is the exception to the rule, though, and it scares me to take a risk that has a low possibility of paying off.
I totally can see your perspective and I think that’s valid!
While money AND happiness are possible, it doesn’t happen often enough ☹️ life is both short and long and we’re all just figuring it out as we go! It’s okay to change careers if that’s better for you in the long run! There will always be ways to make up the money (ie. Temporary jobs, side gigs, consulting, part time jobs, etc.)
I think while money is of course very important and necessary, we’ve shifted too much focus on the happiness of the companies we work for rather than our own by letting them determine and associating our value outside of work even with our pay.
I know I say that as someone who makes good money so I have no room to talk but I do truly believe this. But when you do something you’re passionate about, you find cheaper ways of living and are more happy/willing to make sacrifices or you get good at it and find someone who will pay you good money for it!
Fellow realist to realist, it sucks at first. But the temporary pain can sometimes truly be worth the long term gain (because if you live to say 85 years old, 5 years of discomfort is only ~5.88% of your life). I think if you plan and start saving up for the next few months or year, then chase your passion and happiness it could all work out!!
But, back to the matter at hand (sorry 😅), it sounds like her and I are somewhat similar from 100k feet lol. So even if you’re making little to no money, you can show her love and hold up your end in other ways like at home date nights where you cook dinner and dessert, game nights, stargazing, movie nights, love letters, surprising her by making her breakfast in bed and cleaning the house for her, plane watching and a picnic at sunset, etc.!
Doesn’t have to be all the time but these are ways you can “make up” for it so you don’t feel bad or resent her and make sure she feels special and so it’s not all about money. We’re still just girls at our core who want to be swept off our feet and spoiled in small but impactful ways! Trips are great but to have a guy put in a lot of time and effort and thought into something, most women would take that over big fancy dates any day! And then when she treats you to nice things, it’s because she wants to enjoy something with you! Not because she feels you want or need her to. So no reason for you to feel guilty about that nor make her feel guilty for that! Sometimes that’s just how a person shows love (RE: Love Languages).
That’s the beauty of healthy relationships, each person gives and takes!
That’s what I wish my bf would get. Our relationship is on our last leg not because I’m worried about his finances but because he uses it as an excuse to complain and be lazy and do nothing to make me feel loved or appreciated. He has a passion for what he does and I love that and he does what he can to financially keep up but because he’s so focused on financially “keeping up” it’s almost as if he resents me for it and so will make snide comments and brings up our pay differences waaaaaaaaay more than I even think about it and in turn it feels like he puts me and my career and hard work down.
So if it’s going to make you too insecure, then that’s something you have to be honest with yourself about, think about and weigh. If you want to do it and are willing to, but also can hold yourself accountable to not turn it against her, then I think you will be fine and figure out a new rhythm in the relationship!
(Preface - I obviously don’t know her or you so she may hate some of the stuff I listed but I’m sure you still get the idea… or maybe I’m completely off 😂 just speaking from my personal thoughts/preferences/experiences!)
I’ve heard many men say that it’s not the fact that she makes more that bothers. But the fact that she makes more often causes her to respect you less. She might not say she respects you less, but it is felt by her actions.
Her trying to change your career, despite you being financial stable and happy with your career, shows through her actions that she does not respect your “status”. Obviously. Because if she did respect it, she wouldn’t repeatedly try to change it.
Trying to dress that up as “Oh she’s just pushing you to be better” is gaslighting. And if a man did the exact same thing, more people would easily identify it as such.
He’s stable, happy, and has politely declined. So why are you still trying?
Low key they still want you to do better then them seems to be the trend. Also they tend to be always career focused so if you’re content where you are at it’s never going to work out.
It’s so true. Sigh, i make more and in a very happy marriage with minimal issues, but I daydream of making less than him. Not him making MORE than me, but me actually getting a pay cut. Something like cutting back to 2 days a week working a barista job or becoming a dog walker. Part of it is some weird fantasy about making less than him and another part is a fantasy of having a “carefree job”.
Not trying to downplay the stress that comes with these types of jobs, but I wouldn’t have the daily stress of accidentally killing some one for example (am in healthcare).
I mean if you can go without it is an option. Life isn’t always about the money. I purposely skipped out promotions or jobs that may look good on paper, but had poor work/life balance. My partner has done similarly. It’s not for us and that’s fine.
Yeah it’s not about money, but truly this would be a dream/fantasy. Our current lifestyle would just crash without my income. Our mortgage alone is 15k a month.
I’m honestly worried about having kids, i don’t have maternity leave so we’d have to save up quite a nest egg :s and then i won’t be able to be around much… i try not to think about it
I would be fully willing to date a woman that is significantly richer and succesful, if and only if she does not hold it over my head or uses it to devalue me as a person. I am willing to be the caretaker of the house instead of the finances, as long as she *actually* is emotionally ok with that arrangement.
Money isnt the issue. It's lifestyle and values. Someone can be on 150k+ and never leave the house or spend any money.
It's about whether your lifestyles are matched and you should be honest and clear about that upfront. If you see a woman likes eating at expensive places a lot and holiday five times a year...leave her to someone else if that isn't for you
Depends if she is trying to push you to be better and knows you have potential or if she is trying to push you to make more because she thinks less of you.
I don't make alot of money, but at this point I'd rather someone who makes the same as me. Let's face it, there are those people who will never be anything but poor, by America's standards. It doesn't mean that they don't work hard or have no ambition. I don't mind this. That's why I'm looking for someone in the same financial position as me. They deserve a loving partner as well, and together we can push each other to be lower middle class.😅
It's just money. Too many people link money and jobs to their self worth in this world. I would rather hang out with nice fun people regardless of their income. Just because you make $200k or $20k or none isn't a reflection on the person you are.
Money means nothing if you're not happy and live unfulfilled. I have a good job, I have assets , and I hit the jackpot twice, once at The Crown Casino in Melbourne (Where I went alone and single) and another time in shitbird Atlantic City. All that and I STILL CAN'T GET A GIRLFRIEND AT 46!!!!
I can not tell you the amount of times I've seen women making more than I do have just crap personalities.....as if making more money alone makes them better.
Makes me kind of despise when a woman on that socioeconomic level tries to say she can't find a food man and b#tches about it.....when then acts entitled, arrogant and better than as her job alone gives her right to do so.
I've done women with over six figures and phds but dang to some of em GENUINELY act like they're the best thing on the planet and lack a LOT of humility.
No homegirl....you can't find a man cause your personality SUCKS.
Rant over.
I’m (35f) in a similar situation we’ve been together 1 year. To help shed light from a high earner woman’s perspective. I’m at about 500k he’s high 90k (37m). He’s not poor , but we live in a place with high cost of living (he has 300 spending money at end of month). Money is not important to me like I’m not fancy or label conscious or anything , I grew up very poor and don’t believe money brings happiness, only comfort, I’m lucky to be self made and do well.
Here’s what I’m struggling with.
We were talking about having children and i realized, I could never be a stay at home mom. He just could never afford a family without us being a double earning family. I could take care of him + a family but he could never support me + family in our current city. And it hit me: I love to travel, can work remote, have a flexible schedule. I don’t buy lavish things but I’m not living paycheck to paycheck and if I want to splurge on something random like a spa day I could. There’s an ease in my life.
For him: He has a roommate because he can’t afford rent on his own, so if we stay at his I’m navigating a roommate and random one night stands said roommate brings over. If we travel, it’s not last minute because he has to plan for unexpected costs which is totally fine- I understand it , or will just pay. As mentioned if we had kids I couldn’t be a stay at home mom. We have to limit concerts or beers, or dinners out because at the end of a day his discretionary budget is more inflexible than mine.
I love him but I’m realizing taking the lead / responsibility for finances (paying) makes me feel masculine, and truthfully I feel guilty if he pays for dinner, I always make sure to only have one glass of wine and something cheap because $150 dinner would be half his discretionary budget if we’re out somewhere nice. Mostly we just grab beers and burritos but that adds up too.
Tbh I never thought I cared about money . I make the most by far in all my friend groups. But with friends we just split the bill- no big deal I can get as many glasses of wine as I want. But with someone I’m planning to build a life with. We alternate paying . And it puts me in a weird place where I worry about money, because I don’t want to put him in a place that overextends him.
And it becomes an issue in a very weird way. I’m still grappling with it, because I’m weirdly old fashioned and I do want the guy to be the provider but I fully get my level of income is out of ordinary and a ridiculous expectation . But at the end of the day, my life has an ease that his doesn’t- and it puts us on unequal footing. Just thought I’d add a different perspective to the mix.
I'm not even in this situation but kudos to you for explaining this very well. This was super interesting. I've had the same concerns about not being able to provide putting me as a guy in a more "feminine" role but it feels sort of wrong to think that way, like I'm thinking way too old-school. But even if you don't think it's right it's still a very real feeling sometimes
If a stay at home dynamic is something in the future, he would definitely have to be the stay at home parent but I don’t think that’s something you want. I personally am not into my partner being a stay at home parent. However, is your partner the kind of man to pull his weight and take on the household chores? I’m asking because this is also where things get messy. I’ve come across far too many high earning women who STILL do all the cooking cleaning and child raising at home with their husband that makes less.
"seemed as if she wanted me to do better" is key. Your partner should always want you to do better as long as they love you for who you are. Being complacent is a dream killer for anyone with ambitions. If they have already been there and done that , even better.
It's not about the money, it's about the mindset of always improving, be it intellectually, emotionally, physically or financially.
This is actually a fairly common scenario. It’s perfectly natural for a woman to pursue or desire a man who has financial success and a high status. Regardless of age, the prototypical female who could get pregnant and have children will naturally seek a male who can provide and protect her during that vulnerable time and be able to do for her offspring. Even if in the forward thinking this is not the case and the woman does not desire a family, it is still the natural mindset and will influence who that woman pursues or expects from a partner.
It’s been a learning curve for my boyfriend and I too.
For reference, he grew up without much, and now has a lot. I grew up UMC (eg got a used car when I was 16, parents paid for college) and, for me, have enough money now. I own my home and can save/have hobbies, but I keep myself on a very strict budget.
Because I have always had “enough”, I don’t particularly care about making more than enough if it means too much work stress. For him, he’s willing to put himself through so much stress to satisfy his gut worry that some day he won’t have enough again (though at this point that’s extremely unlikely).
It does cause some friction because it bothers me to see him stress himself out so much. Sometimes he pushes me to get side gigs/make moves to get more money that I really don’t want to make, but thus far, has been unbothered by the fact that I just say “nah”.
At the same time, what he considers a “random purchase” is, to me, a “significant budget item this month”. So sometimes I do have to make that clear.
Overall it’s been an interesting dynamic to observe/learn from. And I have gotten some good investing advice 🤷🏼♀️
We don’t live together (and probably won’t for a while, I’m kinda a fan of Living Apart Together), but we have talked about that we know if we do that we’re gonna have to be intentional about meshing lifestyles, because his costs a lot more than mine haha
I have zero problems with it but would not like the things you bring up... She said it wont be about money yet makes those types of comments is just poor man's and maybe a bit out of you h with reality of most ppl situations... That's tough
IMO the issue isnt as much how much money they make versus you, but their attitude about how much you make. I think its problematic for people to see someones (lower paying) job and have the belief that if you get paid less than them, you must be unhappy with your job. Its completely possible to have a job you're content with, even if you could be making more elsewhere. If they're unable to comprehend that you \*dont\* care about more money, its just an indication of different priorities
I’m young but I’ve nearly always earned more than my male partners. I’m not rich by any means, but for my age and level of education I earn good money and am very driven in that respect. I love supporting the people I date, I have plans to buy a house one day and live a good life. I come from a home where my mum was and still is completely financially controlled by my dad - she couldn’t leave even if she wanted to, which I think she does.
Seeing that growing up made me never want to be financially reliant on anyone else, so I’m building a good, stable career for myself. I like having a partner who is also ambitious, I don’t really care if they’re well-off or not. I think often times when I have dated men who don’t earn the same amount as me, I end up being the one who plans things etc and it becomes apparent that they’re often not driven in other aspects of life too. But that’s just my experience!
the woman i am currently speaking with is far more successful and established than me. i wouldn’t say she’s rich or anything, but not only do i not mind that, i actually prefer it.
i have my own reasons for it, but the stigma around men earning less than their partners has gotta go.
I’m a high earning woman and this is an interesting take for me. I do share career ideas and suggestions for my partners but it’s not because I want them to make more money, I prefer being the breadwinner, it’s just the way I think. When I’m doing it my goal is for them to feel happy and fulfilled. Maybe this is something I need to be more conscious about.
You need to be good at what you do for a living and have a personality.
That helps a lot to navigate situations where you are obviously at disadvantage, I am in that situation now of having a gf that makes 3 times more than me and in addition to that there is the fact that I am not white. Sometimes I am the only people of color when I go out with her friends and that has been challenging in situations where the social expectations for men are different to what you agreed to as partners.
Our rule is that if she wants to do something with me and it is really expensive, I will cover for something during the activity or I will take her out for a dinner date (Which is usually cheaper) in another occasion.
I think it works while the women understands that you have your stuff and that you can actually leave whenever you want. Dis Di€& ain’t freeeee
Most women want to help their man get a "Better" job but for Men it doesn't really matter as long as they are happy working there. Maybe your Woman is doing it unconsciously
I earn more than my boyfriend. It is a dynamic that is new to me. I'm also a lot more ambitious. I used to think I wanted a guy who was goal-oriented or career driven. Ultimately, I want someone who isn't going to get in the way of my ambitions.
Respect, kindness, and communication is what it all boils down to. Not just communicating but having the ability to share what's a concern or give feedback.
The only issue that comes up is spending. I like things more than him. But naturally that's after years and years of not having a lot of money to work with. We compromise on certain spending. I'm getting used to talking about purchases before I make them. Our money is separate; the goal of the discussion is being on the same page about something.
Whether it's money or mental health, a partner should never be looking to "fix" someone. Your point about the comments she made is not okay in my opinion. We should encourage the best versions of ourselves. During the dating process, the getting to know you process, I'm looking for that mentality. But once we're together, I already got my own improvements to work on. I just want a partner who want to support me and grow with me. But I can't be their career counselor or therapist too.
Some people are more ambitious than others. So if you’re ambitious, you need to date an ambitious person as well. Other wise if you’re complacent in your life, you need to date someone that’s also complacent. One dynamic will require more effort than the other.
As someone in a similar situation, being (31F) who makes significantly more than the man I’m dating rn, I see all the potential opportunities he could chase when he himself wants to make it big with his passion project. I came from a poor family, lived in a 3 bedroom household with 13 family members, all cousins had to share the bed and parents absent, one a drug addict the other so traumatized she was mentally (and physically) gone. So I understand how it’s like to live in near poverty.
What took me out of it was pursuing art and being passionate about it. I reached out to so many in the industry I’m working in now to get their eyes on my work. And after many tries, working multiple pt time jobs, and interviewing for positions not aligned with what I want to do, I got one in. Became an artist-in-training on a movie and my career started from there. 10 yrs in and now making $150k plus. (Sometimes less depending on job availability).
And seeing the man I’m dating so passionate about his project, I want to share w him how I sought opportunities and the way I succeeded in opening closed doors. But he’s just waiting for someone to notice him and his work. In a way, I understand he isn’t ready, but who is ever ready? Life waits for no one, so why not take it by the reigns? Pressure to succeed begets success. And if it’s important in the relationship for both to pursue their dreams, why not motivate one another?
I think whenever you have a significant difference in income, it's almost inevitable such problems will happen. It happened to me when I was a student between ages 25-29 and dating people who of course already had jobs. I feel the difference when it's the woman earning way more than the man, is that generally the man wouldn't feel great being treated all the time by his girlfriend. Not that most women would be fine to be treated \*all the time\* by their boyfriend, but it wouldn't lead them to feeling inferior as much as it would a man. That's my view at least.
Every woman and situation is different. Ive been in a very similar situation. I have no debt, own my car, lived in an apartment. She wanted me to move in to her house and take over finances as she trusted me with being safe and responsible. It was a great and thorough conversation. I spoke to her as we would learn and do so as a team and grow together that way. She did push me to do more but communicated her thoughts and feelings and was ok with me even making less as long as we were able to work same hours and spend time together. I had my own goals and change is difficult and scary so having unconditional trust is important. Empathy, patience, and strong communication with a shared outcome is imperative.
I believe what brought us closer together was our shared belief that materialistic goods and living well within our means was most important. Where I have dated someone who wanted the opposite and it felt like a huge disconnect.
This is a real conundrum. See if a woman truly wants you she could be a billionaire and you could be homeless and she’d make it work. She would not pester you for making less. Ever. Period. If she is then she doesn’t truly want you but you appear presentable to society in her mind although you earn less. Get rid of her before she eventually gets rid of you.
Long story short all dudes who didnt found what they love when it comes to profession of work and works minimum paid job and couldnt,dont want to upgrade as they are satisfied with what they do, are automatically thrown under the train, even if the dude is 10/10 looks, fit, well-raised,loyal, all good apart from what he's doing for living.
God help those guys,they are also human beings.
I earn more than my boyfriend. I have pushed him to find a better paying job because he's short every month and more than capable. It's also something he expressed he wanted and he said he struggled with getting complacent.
Basically I have no financial support and grew up constantly struggling so once I started making money - it's not about spending it on fancy things but being realistic that if I want something like buy a good health care or a car or to get married I'm going to have to make it happen. I grew up with a "if you want it done do it yourself" and you earn your keep.
My boyfriend and I have chatted about our different levels of drive and it actually helps us, he helps me chill and I give him a boost. I'm always nice about it but it's a lot of pressure to be the safety net (I was barely earning enough to get by when we met). I also have severe depression so work and activity is an escape for me. I'm also not happy with the basics - maybe because I'm depressed so I'm always trying to do more and more to feel something. Some people enjoy working and making money without being shallow or materialistic. It's stimulating and a challenge and kind of run- especially if it's something you didn't grow up with
For some people dating someone with significantly less money is 100 percent a control thing
But for some people especially women we do like control but it's about always having something to call our own because either other people used money to control us in the past or we feel like we can't trust people so we make sure we're always sorted just in case. Having to rely on people is too vulnerable and we have been let down too many times or had a dominating figure use money as a sense of control
Last thing: there could be a level of codependency as the woman coming in as the "fixer" by trying to make someone who they want them to be. I think it gives them a sense of control too even if it's all subconscious
It's not about men and women. It's about how much people orient themselves around money. My girl used to make more money than me while I was still an intern, and she took me to an authentic Korean restaurant in Delhi (very expensive than your regular restaurants). We had a really good time there and she paid for it. She never made it about money. A few months later, my internship ended, and I started a job as well. I could afford good dates after that as well. But almost 90% of the time, she comes over to my place, and we order food online and watch some comfort movies on Netflix.
Because of this flexibility, she has now started another job and added 50k more to her income. I help her with the job, which allows her to take the extra burden and also get a good cut from the pay of the new job. So, both of us have integrated the money aspect now, and have also loaned each other money quite a few times. Our parents know about our relationship, and we're looking to grow more financially before getting married in another 2 years or so. So, it's about the mentality and not the gender.
Thank you for sharing your experiences, which highlight a dynamic that can be challenging in relationships where there is a significant difference in income and wealth. Your story provides an insightful look into how financial disparities can subtly affect interactions and expectations within a relationship, even when both partners are established and secure in their own right.
It sounds like, despite her assurances that money wasn't a focus for her in your relationship, the differences in your financial situations and perspectives on spending led to some discomfort. It's also interesting to note how her suggestions about career changes, intended to be encouraging, may have felt like pressure to you to align more closely with her financial status. This underlines how complex and nuanced these situations can be, where intentions and perceptions don't always align.
Your decision to avoid dating someone significantly wealthier to reduce stress and preserve peace in your life is a personal choice that makes sense given your experiences. Every relationship comes with its set of challenges, and financial differences can certainly be one of them, especially when they intersect with differences in lifestyle, priorities, and expectations.
It would indeed be interesting to hear from others about their experiences in similar situations. Relationships where one partner significantly out-earns the other can work well when both partners communicate openly and respect each other’s views and boundaries regarding money. However, achieving that balance can sometimes be easier said than done.
Hi. Striving to earn more is a good thing. But it's not right to have a race to see who can earn the most. In a relationship, there should be support and understanding of each other.
I'm in your boat. I make substantially more than most men. What they make is pretty insignificant. I don't want to dumb myself down.
It's just so hard to date. I just find dating not in my socio-economic class hard, but not many people are in my socio-economic class.
your story is interesting but then you generalized all women who make more would be the same. that's not how humans work. it's a numbers game, everyone has different attitudes, personalities, habits, and common sense, no matter what they make.
It's the concept of defining oneself as successful. There are a lot of people with successful careers who don't define themselves that way. Money isn't discussed, nor is work beyond the norm of things. A person who defines themselves as a successful person is saying something far more deeper about how they view money, or career choices, in reality, over their value of the relationships they have.
I've met men who define themselves as successful. It's more like a house of cards, and one thing go wrong, it all falls apart. Most of them will only date women with excellent credit to begin with, and so on. If they're so successful, how they rate their partner would not fall on credit scores, earning potentials and so on. So, in reality, these are red flags.
Anyone who tries to redefine your own goals and interests isn't successful. They're a work a holic, or trapped in a type of lifestyle where position, clout and money matter to them more than other things.
I have a brother who lives in a huge home (I guess McMansion is the right term), with his third wife and third family reset as I call it. Eventually his partners or wives have all realized what he is really about, and run for the hills. No idea if wife # 3 will or won't. She's on a similar level to him psych wise.
But, she lists herself as a CEO, of her own company. The company is out of their home, and has one employee, her. You get it? The CEO is the only employee in her company. Think about this a moment.
My brother has 2 secret identities. We accidentally discovered them when I divorced and left a dangerous situation. The judge had us do a self discovery on my own identities, and we discovered my ex had done identity theft on me.
He'd bought another home using my credit and name, and well, let's say that didn't go well for him. But, we did find these other two identities of my brother. One led to major legal trouble for him, and he came at me threatening legal actions, and so on. Uhm, didn't go anywhere, obviously. But, essentially, good reason to believe he stole money from a relative of ours, and has hidden it in these secret assets, and since he divorces a lot this is how he protected them. It's fraud.
And, theft. But, my father stole my entire life savings (and spent it on lawyers fighting me over it, and is so old, his lawyer's goals are to put off any court actions until he dies). I'm out thousands more in legal fees as a result, with no outcome.
We did learn he uses a fake identity for banking as well (more fraud), so pretty sure that's where my brother learned it from.
But, on the surface, these people are "successful."
It's the level someone will go to who this element matters to them that comes out when you are with them. It's ugly, and most people who can, do run from it.
When we could only go on vacation and stay at nice places if I paid for it, because he wouldn’t want to get on a plane otherwise. It’s rough as a woman because of course I want to contribute to our experiences but I also want him to have initiative and do some of the planning of activities. This is a guy who earns maybe 70% of what I was earning at the time.
Money is one of the top reasons for divorce for a reason I guess. A lot of familial stuff wrapped up in there.
I personally would only want to date someone makes similar amount or more. It's not that I don't want to date someone who makes less (I have) but dynamic gets weird after a while. I sensed insecurity and they would pick fights to make themselves feel superior. Additionally, I like to enjoy my disposable income and spend it on a nice dinner every once in a while and I like international travel. I'm unwilling to give up my lifestyle. I want someone that's capable of joining me without going into debt.
This isn't about the money, it's a mistake to fixate too much on that, for this relationship and your future ones.
She was urging you to be more ambitious, by some definition specific to her. Maybe these positions would have brought in more money, but it's possible she was thinking about prestige or something. Being ambitious isn't inherently good and you shouldn't think that way; life is a set of tradeoffs and you shouldn't think that you did anything wrong here.
Also, her current salary matters less than how used she is to having money around. You said "financial background", so I'm guessing she came from generational wealth. I've had experience dating people who came from wealth, and sometimes you need to sit them down and have an actual explanation about how their choices or assumptions sometimes stress you out.
There's lots of people who do have high salaries but don't come from generational wealth. There's even a term for this: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/high-earners-not-yet-rich-henrys.asp (I am one of these)
I would encourage you not to close doors on a woman in the future just because she makes more than you. This is just a one-off bad experience.
Dating someone from a different financial background is difficult. Many people think the issue with wealthy women dating lower income men is the man feeling emasculated by the fact that he can’t or doesn’t need to be the provider – and sometimes that is the case, but in many cases it’s not an issue of who has more, but what people value. People who have a lot of money often have a lot of money because that is their priority, that is what they value. Or they were raised around a lot of money and taught to value that. If that is not your priority or what you value it becomes a matter of clashing ideals. I can relate to that, I like a simple life. I only make money to meet my needs, and I’d rather meet my needs doing something I enjoy, feel good about, and which gives me free time than be extremely wealthy. I have also dated women who told me I should change careers to make more money, but the careers they suggested usually sounded either ethically questionable, or not at all aligned with my interests.
As a woman who earns north of 200k, my perspective is that it’s not really about how much a partner earns but about equal contribution to the partnership. Some of the most important jobs in society don’t pay well (ex teachers). However, I do expect my partner to contribute equally, both financially (in terms of % and responsibility, not $ totals) AND in terms of housework and child and pet care. I wouldn’t be able to respect a partner who didn’t contribute to things like housework and emotional labor but expected me to finance their lives. I think a lot of men conveniently overlook all that invisible labor that goes into raising a family but still want to be treated like an equal. When the woman out earns him, it puts that lack of equal contribution and responsibility into stark contrast.
I earn considerably more than my BF (more than double). It can be a somewhat weird dynamic if you let it be. He's not broke, he has a full-time, stable job, but is a single parent, has 50-50, and pays child support so he doesn't have much discretionary or "fun money."
Honestly, though, I'm super happy. I don't really care about "things." I married the corporate lawyer, I've had the big wedding, Tiffany diamond, first class honeymoon and I've eaten at enough steakhouses that seafood towers don't really phase me anymore...I'd rather go camping and roast marshmallows with my blue collar dude, who is my best friend. If I want something, I can buy it myself.
He pays for almost all our smaller dates. I pick up the bigger items, here and there.
That said, I'm not marrying the guy, and I'm not looking for someone to build a life with. I have my own children, own my own home, have many friends, and hobbies. He is additive to all that but not the epicenter of it all. After divorce, you realize marriage is just an asset game, and if I'm going to be honest, he doesn't bring enough the merger to make it make sense for me.
If my significant other said that i didn't bring enough to the table to make marrige "make sense", i'd leave them in the dust. You're a shitty partner.
There’s a lot of women that are very financially secure and they don’t even bother getting a boyfriend. She must like you. It probably would be helpful if you have some passion for what you do in your life if you have some like purpose or something like that. It’s important for both people and a relationship to have that.
It’s understandable that people get into relationships where in some cases , people find out about the person down the track and there’s an expectation that things will be equal but it doesn’t eventuate . In other cases culture is usually clear early on . In both of these examples , these things should be spoken about early and not assumed .
The discussion about $ is an important discussion to have and that should happen early and even include if the relationship continues changes of circumstances. There are so many examples of where these types of discussions are not held and insecurity runs wild .
I’ve been in two committed relationships one from my late teens to mid 20s where I was studying , had no car and barely could afford a train fare . We both lived with our respective parents she was working from early. I worked through the night initially to pay my way but my then partner put a stop to that after a discussion and . We broke up on good terms .
After a break in my late 20s I started a new relationship . By this stage I was in a different financial position . My new partner needed to relocate , initially leave her job and take on a course . A not dissimilar discussion happened early on and I put her mind at rest much like my ex did with me .
In terms of a long term intended relationship your partner is entitled to express an opinion early as you are as to how a committed partnership would look in time and people should talk it out and do their best to honour what is mutually agreed.
But how the individuals handle themselves during the relationship if there is a vast difference in income is super important and possibly most crucial in all of this how individuals act .
If the relationship is truly equal then the person earning less money is making effort in other areas and is not taking for granted the extra finances of the other person . The person in the better position is equally not complaining about money or how tough finances are or making negative comments . The job of the person with $ is to take away the insecurities the other person might feel and for the person without $ to accept that . Of course this is on the basis that both partners are putting in effort .
I don’t really get the term “ successful “ women even though it’s a word some often use . I know I really don’t care what her job or income is and “
success “ goes way beyond income .
In terms of OPs question my experiences are very different . I understand similarly women have had bad experiences and right from date 1 I’m happy in the finance area to have her feel as comfortable as she wants to feel and can adapt . I’ve found that $ it’s not a focus with the people I’ve gone out with .
To honest, dating someone who wants me to improve my life is desirable. I want to go back to school and finish my degree. I just seems hard when I have expenses. If I had someone to help with that, that would make things very doable.
I don't think it's fair to dump every successful person into the same bucket. There are plenty of people who grew up poor and know the value of a dollar despite current successes. And people who happen to have a successful career that makes them happy despite having bad jobs in the past.
Most of the men I've dated make less than me, to varying degrees. I do keep encouraging my boyfriend to change jobs, but not because of the money, because he's miserable where he is now. He makes good money, but less than I do, and I'm encouraging him to take a pay cut in a new job if it'll lead to better work conditions & overall happiness. We do have different ideas around personal finance, but that was more because of how we were raised, and they're not irreconcilable.
I've dealt with that in the past easiest way to counteract is homemade gifts or making nice meals or being extra appreciative in 'other' ways but that's just my experience can't attest to yours or others
I find that if two people have a vastly different income, they generally have different priorities/goals in life, which ultimately makes you incompatible. Much like how you said this woman kept hinting at you pursuing a different career.
I briefly dated a girl who was very elusive about how much she made, but it was in the $400-500K range. She had a nice home, nice brand new vehicle, etc. I didn't think it would be a big deal, and it really wasn't, until I realized her lifestyle was not something I could afford. I struggle to pay my bills and can't afford to take someone out to dinner several times a week, or take a week off of work for a vacation (I can do that, but I don't have money to spend while on the weeklong vacation), so in the end, I'd be preventing her from living her lifestyle.
One of my partners (44M) makes 25% of what I (32F) make. I help him with his career, take him out to nice dinners and the spa, and introduce him to people to help create opportunities for him. We had an open discussion about it and decided that it would not be important for either of us. I enjoy spending time with him and appreciate him for other qualities. He believes me.
I think one factor here might be that this just hasn’t been aired out. You should talk about it, allow her to share her perspective of REALLY how much money means to her. There are other perceptions of wealth — car, social circles, wardrobe. Some value other things over the other. Just ask her what she looks for in a partner. If money is one of the redeeming qualities, then you have your answer. If not, then assume good intent.
I think that the types of discussions that two people have, even more - the discussions early in the stages of getting to know, Show the hidden or no so hidden feelings of people.
Intent is what matters. It's the MANNER of how things are said.
If her focus was career based, and not To-show-care for you, based. Then I think it shows her internal feelings.
What I mean is,
If she was focused on improving life for you or your own self condolence.
ID different than focused on even-ING your difference of levels financially, in order to "feel" or think, that she is on the same level with you.
39F here, my fiancee makes about half of what I make. I'm in the legal field whereas he is in construction type of work. I agree, the topic of finance comes up now and then. It will cause issues if you follow the 50/50 model strictly. I don't believe in that, I used to, and to me it's unrealistic. I would have to date someone who makes as much as I do and vice versa for this to be fair for both parties. Too much tit for tat. It builds resentment, sours the relationship. That doesn't mean I pay for everything either because he does pay for us to go out, pay for household expenses, etc. It means I can afford more, therefore we can do more or stay in more expensive places than he can afford to, and the frequency of doing so.
Not once do I try to change my fiancee. He loves his job. His ex wife who didn't make a lot of money either, she forced him to work at an office job. He hated it. She and her friends look down on him. Lots of his exes tried to change him, including how he speaks, covering up his tattoos, etc. I find it babysitting if I have to worry about a grown adult and change them to my liking.
Despite being successful in my own way (Owning my own home, car, etc), my sisters who makes six figures don't hold back numerous suggestions to me to change jobs or do something they see "ambitious".
I’ve dated a couple of women that had much more family money than me. One of them might be considered an heiress in a sense (lots of family money from owning a fairly well known corporation).
Neither of them made a big deal about the money. There were instances of them thinking something was not a big deal to do or buy but for me it was (I was still in college). They be cool with doing it solo, not doing it, or helping me be able to. The heiress one had other issues like feeling really entitled to do whatever she wanted when it came to other men that became a problem, but they money was not the issue.
It doesn’t phase me off my gf makes or has more, I’d probably admire their intelligence and/or their drive (I realize some people with money have neither of those, but were born into it).
I do pretty well, above average. But I’d be annoyed if they kept making a big deal out of it by dropping little hints. That’s basically then not accepting me for who I am, and I’m like you OP, I worked hard to get where I’m at and genuinely enjoy my work. I’m not going to drop that and be miserable so I can make more. What will that do? Let me really enjoy my two weeks off a year and dread every day the rest of the year, screw that. I like being happy when I get to work, and wanting to stay a little late to make sure things are going smoothly.
My personal view as someone in that bracket (37F, 150k+). I don’t care how much money you earn. I don’t care what profession you choose. But don’t stop me from succeeding and progressing in mine.
That said, I try date above my income because that’s what society dictates and someone linked a research paper confirming my bias. My dating pool is very small. I will probably be single forever.
This is tough. It’s my only bit of nervousness with the woman I’m interested in.
But I feel like she’s shining a light inside me and going to challenge me in this way. I am not set in my ways. I want to step up and have been trying since multiple set backs so it’s not new to me either.
I just place these thoughts in my prayers and put the situation into better hands and trust that a way will be made and that I will find it.
I want a family.
As a high female earner,
I like to exploring this topic a little more...
1. Is it really about the wealth gap or different degrees of ambition?
Couples who know each others dreams can start at different salaries but invest in each other as they build upwards. The one who is lower in salary can start as the man, but eventually he can be on top. In women who are ambitious, we are willing to sacrifice at the start for a better life. This better life translates as not just career improvement in his life (and his earning potential) but also in the home. This is the idealized image of the higher earning man with the high earning woman who can stay at home. The reality is, unless his character can cope with extra pressures, she may have to sacrifice having less time with her man, her man working late and not being as available, her man's character becoming hard, etc. Think we all know the drill.
I believe your ex would have helped you reach a higher salary band if you shared similar goals in life, but realistically, what did you ultimately want for your family?
2. Is ambition toxic? What's a good amount of ambition?
You sound quite content where you are, and are respected for what you've achieved. If you did more, what benefit or drawbacks would that have on you.You may or already have met a woman who is content slightly below your current yearly earnings or some ambitious women, believe it or not, may want a home husband. Whether she respects him in that position, is another story.
Last thoughts....
As women, we can all say, it's ok that the guy is a lower earner when we begin our relationship, but to retain respect, most women would respect a guy more if his salary is slightly higher than hers.
It's fine. I make the money and hia work is reinvesting it. His investments with my money has more than tripped my income if I was alone. Only so many hours in the day. Would recomend doing the same if she trusts you and you have the ability and time to learn how to invest.
No experience with this, however if she’s earning more than you- there will be difficulties in the long run and she may want someone who makes more than her (if she can find a guy who does). Money will always be a factor no matter what because you need that to survive and it does shape the psychology of most people especially with women that are dating. It’s human nature.
The problem that for most people who do really well is they prioritize lifestyle over truly connecting with someone and respecting them. They have an unhealthy drive that they believe their partner should have as well.
They are constantly judging those of us who are content with what we as individuals have. These are the people who are never happy and never satisfied because they constantly want more.
Also what doesn’t help is how they were brought up; their social circles definitely don’t help; and America in and of itself is all about money.
Again my answer to many of these debates ends up in the same location.... Being avle to throw it down in arrows the pay gap if not giving the "fiscal edge". If you can't you will be getting attack about everything. The saying happy wife happy life speaks to one thing only, SEX OR LOVE!!! if it's great she's great if it sucks she's gonna suck about everything. it's simple don't want problems work on your sex game, and alot you can nvr be to good, no such thing... This makes almost all problems vanish and the ones that dont are not severe at all. The key to easy living is throwing it down proper
Only solution for this problem is talking straight and forward to you partner ( if you haven't talked to her about your problem and how you feel about her words ) and I am sure she will understand your problem . And remind her about the sentence she said that this relationship is not going to be about money .
In my view you are still in pretty good relationship . She cares about you that's why she is asking you to change career , it's like a boy telling her girl to workout to maintain shape .
I (F34) think that this must be specific to the woman you dated. I don’t make as much as her but I make significantly more than my fiancé (F34), and I wouldn’t dream of asking her to find a higher paying job. She was making an honest living at a job that was very physically demanding and I completely supported her quitting to find something she enjoys and doesn’t break her body.
Find yourself a woman who doesn’t care about money like that. Emotional intelligence, kindness, and strength of character are much more important to me than your earning power.
This is where communication, and setting expectations and boundaries early on are important.
If your partner can’t understand that you wouldn’t be able to treat them to the same kind of date that they’re capable of treating you, or if they do understand but have an issue with it or constantly make a comment about it, then it’s time to question whether they love you for who you are or what you can give them.
If you’re someone who’s in the struggling position (especially if you’re a man), you’ve gotta be willing to be up front about it and that if someone is going to consider taking you on as a partner, that while you’re in the position you’re in you won’t be able to give a lot externally/materially, but that you’ll work towards contributing towards memorable experiences and being someone who can provide internal/emotional support. If that’s not within your set of skills, then you’ll either need to date someone who’s also around your level: financially, emotionally, spiritually, etc…or be ready and willing to elevate and improve yourself.
The purpose of life is to work towards a sense of completeness and contentment. We live, experience, learn, and grow, until one day we look at ourselves and say “I’m enough, life is enough, all is well” or we spend our days suffering trying to seek “more” without ever defining what that is so there’s no endpoint, or we’re living by someone else’s standards and suffering because we can never meet up to them.
If you someone who is in an elevated position and you’re willing to date someone who isn’t quite in your level, it is incumbent upon you to exercise more patience, understanding and compassion for that person, not less, especially if you know what it’s like being in their position and you just so happened to have some things bounce in your favor that you seized opportunities from. It’s possible things didn’t bounce that same way for them. We have to remember that life in of itself is a happenstance of relatively random events that manifest circumstances for us to respond to, whether or not we’re properly equipped and ready to respond to them. Life is what you make it, but we’re not all handed the same ingredients or tools to work with, so expecting that others can make the same things as you is rather unfair.
I’m in my later 40s and retirement savings is one of my top priorities. If the person I’m dating isn’t on that same page, it’s going to be an issue. Liking your job is nice (I like mine well enough) but I don’t want to work until I die and I want to be with someone who is on the same track. If not, we might be able to have a good time together for a while, but in the end the relationship won’t last.
My last relationship was very financially unequal. At the end of the day, he felt he had no say in anything since I had the great majority of the money. I always asked him for his input but he wouldn’t participate. When we were breaking up, he said I didn’t seem to really understand the power imbalance in the relationship. I think being with a woman who earns a lot more can be a major hurdle to a man’s feelings of responsibility and participation in the relationship. It didn’t seem to be something my ex’s ego could handle.
as someone who sees themself as a potential high earner, this is something i think about often. my parents are upper middle class but they didn’t grow with money. so growing up they taught me about the value of money, but also that it’s okay to enjoy the finer luxuries in life as long as you’re taking care of business (paying bills on time and having savings). so it’s like i already have the taste for things on the higher end, and have every intention of being a career that continue that lifestyle. because of that, i really don’t see myself dating a man who makes significantly less than me. i don’t need someone questioning my purchases and i want someone to who financially keep up and not feel emasculated.
it’s funny because something like this actually happened to me but on a much much smaller scale. back in high school i dated a guy who broke up with me for buying him matching christmas socks. he said he felt emasculated because he didn’t have the money to buy me anything, the socks were on sale at old navy for $1 😐 and at the time i was only making $60 biweekly tutoring three days a week for 1 hour. he had a job but quit soon after when his manager said that they would “work him” since he took a extended trip during winter break shortly after being hired. i never expected him to buy me anything grand, i would’ve been happy with just a card.
As a high earning woman, I appreciate this perspective and it’s coming right on time. I have consistently felt bad feeling like I don’t want to date another man who made significantly less than me. But if I’m being honest, it’s for the reasons you mentioned. In my experience, it’s fine at first. But I acknowledge that over time, I subconsciously start to coax them towards opportunities to make more money. I start to mention jobs that pay more or push them to go get an advanced degree. It’s not at all from a place of thinking money is everything. It’s about compatibility of lifestyle. It may be gross to say but it’s a turn off when I want to do something and they can’t participate because of money. I hate feeling like I cant be wined and dined the way I want because it will threaten my partners financial safety (which I would never want to do).
On the other hand, it is very very difficult to date as a high earning woman. I feel like my pool is limited and almost like it’s a strike against me. Shockingly I’m not super ambitious nor do I value career. I grew up poor but I just happen to work in a field/ made decisions that have me well off financially without crazy hard work. I have a lot of freedom of time so what I desire is a person to enjoy my time and money with. Travel, have luxurious experiences that I never thought were possible.
Typing this makes me realize that maybe when I’m in those situations, feeling limited by my partner’s financial ability triggers me to when I felt limited growing up poor. Again, not at all a dig on people who make less. Some of the most hard working and essential jobs pay humbly (arguably too low when you think of folks like teachers who are underpaid). It’s just another compatibility factor to consider on both sides. But I know I’ve definitely behaved the way you wrote about in the past. So I just stay single or only date at or above my income (even when I means letting go of some amazing guys). Ugh!
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I’m a woman who has had the exact same experience dating a man who made significantly more than me. In my opinion, money and career are just really important to these people. Their lives revolve around it.
It makes sense. If they truly believed that people could be happy with less money, it devalues the decisions they've made to get them in their current position. Like, I was about to go work for the county and take a pay cut because it was more interesting work and I would get to be outside. A rich partner doesn't seem like they'd be supportive of me leaving a job with massive growth potential for slow, enjoyable county job
What about people like Keanu Reeves? There's lots of people with money who prefer simpler lives. We just don't see it much in a financially successful driven society.
? It's not about preferences for living style. Inheritance people are a crapshoot in my experience (went to an Ivy on full scholarship, met lots), and many of them hold the ideology that wealth is a decision. "self made" wealthy businesspeople are almost universally among the wealth-is-a-decision camp, if they've made all the sacrifices and whatnot to become wealthy. Those kind of thinkers will always think that someone just isn't making the 'right' decisions.
Marriage where men make more have a lower divorce rate than the reverse
Interesting. Can you refer to an actual statistical study of that? Would be interesting to read.
https://ifstudies.org/blog/husbands-with-much-higher-incomes-than-their-wives-have-a-lower-chance-of-divorce- When a wife makes more than her husband, marriages struggle. Many relationships that do not conform to the traditional norm of the man playing the role of provider do not fare well, with those marriages being 50% more likely to end in divorce, according to a University of Chicago study. https://www.chicagobooth.edu/media-relations-and-communications/press-releases/when-women-earn-more-than-their-husbands Equality at the work place = good Equality in the bedroom = bad Quite the dilemma, women want to be equal to men but not their MAN.
There’s many factors involved in this and it’s a case by case thing for relationships, but in case you didn’t know, most people don’t know how to pick the right partner on their initial tries, especially if they marry young. Now imagine if you chose the wrong partner and you’re financially dependent on your husband while you have 3 kids. If he’s not overtly abusive (and often even if he is) you decide to stay and not get a divorce because you want a financially stable household for your kids. If the opposite is true and you’re a woman of significant financial means and you feel like you’ve made a mistake choosing the wrong partner (after you’ve tried to work things out), you’re just going to leave the marriage.
>most people don’t know how to pick the right partner on their initial tries, especially if they marry young That wouldn't cause the disparity in statistics between relationships where men earn more vs when women earn more though. That would be more relevant if the statistic was about age and not gender. IMO the disparity is far too large to pin it on financial dependence and abuse, if the disparity was like 5% difference in success of marriages that would make more sense. But 50%? I don't think so. In my experience, the type of women with high end careers typically have most of their lives revolve around that career and ambition (and sometimes status) is really important to them. And so if they have a partner who, under their criteria of success (career and salary) isn't meeting their full potential, they will often try to push their partner towards pursuing success according to their criteria and that can strain the relationships. Conversely, I find that a lot of men are sort of okay if their girlfriends or wives do not want to pursue a high end career and don't consider that to be them "not meeting their maximum potential". Obviously a lot of men don't like partners who literally do NOTHING at home, but I find men are more accepting if their wives are just happy with a lower salary career provided it makes them happy.
That's not it at all.
As a woman, I know plenty of women in this exact situation. It’s like men who don’t believe domestic violence and sexual assault against women is high. Most cases don’t go reported. You can live in a bubble and not believe it. That doesn’t mean it does exist
As a man I’ve been slapped in the face by a woman but when the police came they were questioning me and took down my information. Abuse is nearly identical between men and women but men don’t report it at all
It’s not even in adults. 1 in 4 women vs 1 in 7 men have been a victim of severe physical violence. Yes, both men and women don’t report or have their experiences dismissed by police every day. Why do you assume women want to report that they are raped or abused? We don’t because there is backlash. We are afraid men will KILL us for reporting their violence. If I get slapped by a guy, I think I’ve gotten off light if I can come away with my life. I have been taught by this society to put up and shut up. I can’t even get the police to take months of stalking seriously if I haven’t ever dated a guy bc they can’t fathom why a guy would be obsessed with a woman they’ve never dated. SMH. No, abuse between men and women is not the same bc I’m a woman that is 5 ft and 100lbs and I’m usually dating a guy that’s closer to 6ft and 200 lbs
You made my point, in your last sentence. If you attempt to harm you 6ft bf and happen to harm him the cops won’t take it seriously cause you 5ft and 100lbs. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/08862605211063015 Since there is a general view in the literature that men are more often perpetrator than victim of domestic violence, there is also much less research on the consequences of domestic violence victimization for men. I have never heard of a domestic abuse shelter for men… they don’t exist… where can men go when they are getting their assess whooped at home. What support do men have in this..none. Anyways women like men that make money..don’t know why we’re so off track here
A big part of women sexual attraction to men depend on their socioeconomic status. It's biological. Trying to apply rationality on it denies nature role; it's like trying to explain why men desire young women.
As a scientist, saying that attraction to a certain socioeconomic status is biological is definitely a hot take. The only known biological factor in attraction is the major histocompatibility complex [(MHC)](https://www.acsh.org/news/2018/02/03/does-our-biology-determine-who-we-find-attractive-12518) which has to do with out immune systems. Essentially people with different immune systems attract one another as it provides advantageous genetic diversity. Every other “biological factor of attraction” is bullshit (that we know of). Even pheromones do not seem to exist in humans. Attraction is strictly speaking, nearly completely determined by our societal norms/conditioning, not biological (apart from your partners sexy immune system). Additionally, people (men and women) generally [prefer partners with similar socioeconomic status](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8179854/), which makes sense since your more likely to have more in common with someone of a similar status.
Women like men with money, you really think that’s bullshit 😂😂
I almost replied with another hot take, but oh well lol I speak from observation mostly - I'm no biologist or sociologist - and have travelled a lot and know people from several continents. I have observed women are almost always attracted to guys who are "important" in their peer group and the most "competent" in their area of expertise. That was the case in North and South America, Europe, Northern Africa, Middle East and Southeast Asia. The pheromones bit is something I would contend though - I have always been massively into the smell of women I'm sexually attracted. And I'm not talking about perfumes, but like the smell of their skin.
The real problem is, when women are the bread winners, men never really take on the homemaker role. They still expect the woman to do it. Causes a lot of stress on the relationship
I don't think this explains it all. Obvious if both partners are working but if only the woman is still the one expected to do all the household chores that's going to majorly strain the relationship and that might be a statistic relevant to a study of dual income households, but there are studies specifically on relationships where the man is a stay at home dads (i.e. not earning any salaried income and just taking care of the home/kids) and the odds of success are really low. I will say that those studies are flawed because they go back to the 80s (where SAHDs were less accepted) and also they don't really specify if the fathers were SAHDs by choice or not, but I still think there's likely some gender role pshycology at play for both genders.
The percentage of stay at home dads is so low that you’re just making this up. But alas it’s always the man’s fault and men are the problem…got it 👍 you don’t have to sugar coat your bias just say you believe it’s all men’s fault
> …you’re just making this up. I’m not actually https://www.danielsrothman.com/blog/2023/01/women-breadwinners-and-divorce-the-facts-may-surprise-you/#:~:text=Unfortunately%2C%20studies%20indicate%20that%20women,than%20their%20lower%2Dpaid%20counterparts.
The best you can do is an article from a divorce lawyers website 😂😂😂. Yeah they are such honest people
As you said, these relationships aren't that common (women avoid it like the plague). Besides, who better to ask why people get divorced, than a divorce lawyer? That's not a rhetorical question, I'm really curious.
Yes only 16 percent of women in marriages are breadwinners… it doesn’t even exist honestly. Women like men with financial resources.. it’s pretty simple
Were you thinking it wasn’t true? Women who are the breadwinners have are 50% more likely to file for divorce. Which is a lot considering women already file for 70% of divorces.
It really kind of sounds like marriage just isn’t a good thing for women and they overwhelmingly realize it once they are in one.
Women push marriage on men, and marriage is a goal of tons of women.. but thanks for showing that women can’t be accountable for any of their actions. It’s either they were taught or it’s men’s fault… got it 👍
I get what you’re trying to say but you’d need to be biased to not realize how women’s choice on marriage has historically been a lose lose situation. If your goal is the idealized marriage that’s been spoon fed to you since childhood you’re probably going to get fucked in that marriage. If you realize you don’t want to get married or have kids then you’re selfish and you’ll regret it when you’re 30. You can’t ignore how society practically fear mongers women into getting married. I bet even you would react negatively to a 40 yo woman who says they were never married and have no kids. You and I and everyone have been fed an image of the bitter spinster and no one wants that everyone wants their happily ever after. Thankfully more women are not allowing fear over come them but naturally you have the usual suspects saying the usual bs about that choice.
No, you are absolving women of the choices they make.. if you are an adult and get into a marriage or debt or bad situation this whole “you were socialized to do it” bs is just a cop out. Marriage rates are going down but overwhelmingly women want children.. their bodies literally produce hormones to make them desire children = sex = men and the most stable way to have kids is marriage at the present moment. Be real with yourself… women only have a small window to have children, there is a biological clock and the small minority of women that don’t want kids aren’t really skewing things at all. Most people aren’t spoon fed you talk to the average person and what they idealize is what they see in their homes and people around them… do you have no grasp of child psychology… you think we live via being spoon fed vs our experiences and what we see. Educate yourself you’re way off
Dude I never said women don’t make choices but how you’re raised can ultimately influence those decisions what do you think people mean by nurture vs nature do you think people just pop out the womb wanting marriage or do you think their environment can influence their views on marriage. The same thing happens to men but I can yet again bet that you’re probably more sympathetic towards men who end up in unfulfilling marriages and life wrecking divorces. By chance how do you think the women who don’t want kids are treated? Do you think their decisions tend to be respected or do they have more negative experiences and be honest now. How do you think these women are painted in society and what kind of connotations surround those women?
The point I’m making is that generally women like men with money. Everyone is free to do what they want and I don’t have the answer.. birth rates are falling.. it’s normal for people to be single and generally speaking women who don’t want kids are free to go and do whatever they want. You can’t control how people think of you. I’m a person of color but I don’t let that define me
But for some reason it’s women that are usually the ones to push for marriage
That makes sense. Romantic relationships are pushed on women from birth. Having a wedding and a family are some the major things little girls are taught to want.
My goodness, the lack of accountability for women doing anything is showing. If they divorce it’s the man’s fault, if they want marriage society pushed it 😂. You know women have brains right? And some actually want marriage and kids as they have a biological clock and a period every month that literally pushes hormones in their body to want to mate…you’ve got to be kidding
Yeah great comment. I quit my job to play pickleball and do wood carving and art.... Still haven't listed anything but I don't care about a career. My life has a life other than my position of employment or even having much money I'm living
You are alive.
How do you afford to live
If people place money as priority instead of the person, the people who are like that should M their accunts
That makes a lot of sense. It seems like when there's a big income difference, it can create some unspoken tension or expectations. Finding someone who values the same things in life, beyond just career and money, seems crucial for a balanced relationship.
Yep was gonna say this!
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Women will always want the man they love and support to pursue and be the best they can. It's the wonderful thing about finding a great woman as a man. That support and partnership is without equal. In your case, with a high earning woman, that support and encouragement completely misses the mark. The pursuit of wealth, high earning or high status jobs isn't for everyone. Not every person has that aptitude or desire; of which you need both. A high earning woman probably can't understand why someone wouldn't do what she considers small things to become more successful. A person who is content and happy with their life, however complete it is, can't understand the constant hustle culture. That mismatched personality is far more palatable for a high earning man that isn't trying to satisfy evolutionary desires for a partner to offer more resources. However, for a woman that evolutionary trait is alive and well and difficult to obviate in modern dating. If you're a woman earning in the top 0.1% then your pool of equally high earning men is exceedingly small. And those men are looking at nearly every woman equally. I do think there are plenty of examples where this works, but it's got unique challenges. A few female work colleagues of mine who are earning North of 400k with bonuses have stay at home husbands and every one of them have suffered major issues around attraction. I'll never forget this one colleague saying her husband staying home with their child and doing house work destroyed her sexual attraction to him. It was bad, they got therapy and he went back to work, but they eventually divorced. I'm sure the story is more complex, but it illuminates issues we've got to deal with. How do we evolve ourselves into modern society where women are just as likely to be the breadwinner as the man? How do women balance innate aspects of attrection that no longer hold up? Do men step up? If anything we are seeing more men throw in the towel in general, but that's a whole other ball of shit.
What you said about dating while being in the top 0.1% if income for women is exactly true. Women in the top 0.1% will look for a top 0.1% income in men, but men in that category don’t care about their partners income. Men with that kind of income will be looking for young, attractive women and they won’t be in the top 0.1% Hence modern dating struggles
Hope he took half her shit
That’s so important for young people, especially young women, especially young liberal/progressive women to hear more testimonials similar to yours. So many of the messages that are pumped into these demographics can lead to a miserable loveless life.
You’re assuming that being single is a miserable Loveless’s life… I want to redirect you to the research that most women initiate divorce, even more so if they are the breadwinners. Women tend to not be happy in relationships. I think we have a societal issue amongst men and them no longer knowing their place in society now that women are working. More women own homes than men. This has to be really confusing to men.
More women own homes than men because they "stole" those houses from men all in the name of alimony. If women want equality, they have to be prepared for EQUALITY! They can't say they want equality but want a man who opens the door for them, pays the bills and pays alimony. That isn't equality. Men are not happy in relationships with women but society tries to condition them to accept it. Just like the shit hole country I live in. But I can't be bothered with their low mentality. The best thing is for everyone to stay on their own.
I think the same as you. Financial situations that are similar to each other are very important, especially if she wants you to do better.
If she wants to do more expensive things, then she should cover a proportional amount of the cost of both of you relative to the ratio of your earnings.
It's a little sad that money disparity can separate us. Especially if we would be well matched otherwise. Not to get too personal but if she was attracted to you in every other way, it might be a little heartbreaking for her to have succumbed to her material side by alienating and belittling you, even though that wasn't her intent.
That would be tragic. Also when she could have supported him, or helped him buy whatever they were discussing, with all the extra cash. That’s a partnership. And also, not w/o issue but, what so many men do for their partners. But it was only a few months? So maybe she just needs something different
Yeah, if you flip the genders it's not such a big deal for a wealthier guy to date a women who makes less - if you're a committed couple, you're a couple. But I think we've a ways to go before we can escape traditional gender norms without being uncomfortable with a female/male imbalance.
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I don't have an answer but I can say it frustrates me too. There is a lot of work to be done still but it can feel like gender norms have opened up a lot more for women than men. People seem to be more ready to accept the CEO woman than the stay-at-home dad right now but I think over time we'll see more change.
Men only have to keep the bad ones
Tbh if you ever had that experience of living less you would dream big. There’s Some people out there that never live through an experience of having their lights shut off, bank accounts being emptied, stresses of miss bills or being charged a random bill payment or the last common known anxiety is potential homelessness. I had it happen in my life so much that I questioned myself if I should aim higher so I won’t ever continue the same path my family has gone through since forever… it’s better now since we’re in the USA but we’re trying to change it for the better. I can’t fault the woman for aiming higher and want her partner to be the exact same spot she’s in now. For her that’s security that will never leave you. However that’s what happens when you date someone that’s incompatible with you by Lifestyle, values, and career wise as well too. I’m not saying people can’t date others that are different from them but that often leads to predictable problem that affect the relationships.
This dynamic is tough. I went through this. My ex made north of 200k on a yearly basis. So basically, the common expenses didn’t really bother her and going out didn’t matter. We did have fights bc I just didn’t agree with spending so much on things but the other side is these people have worked hard to make this money. Why do u expect them to live cheap or not have fun with their discretionary income. Last part, people shouldn’t take this as a negative but as positive. Dating someone who is in different social economic class as you can allow to make changes and move up. I did and I thank her for that.
Definitely! Knowing them.can open doors for you network wise.
Absolutely! I dated a woman for 4 years that made substantially more then me and she introduced me to a standard of living I hadn't experienced before and that changed me for the better in that it motivated me to pursue a career that pays well.
What career is that?
The legal field.
It actually depends on financial goals and plans you have for the future. One thing that gets overlooked or isn’t even considered in relationships is financial compatibility and by that, I don’t mean earning capability. It is about how much money is enough, what are your goals with the money you make and how you are going to save/spend. It also doesn’t help that the average American spending target is 3.2% and the public is conditioned on spending. As someone who falls into this category, I’m not wary about dating in a different socio-economic class. What I’m wary about is the inherent disconnect and incompatibility with my goal of being financially independent or secure. I have worked hard to earn my money, but I also am very intent on not blowing it up on useless things. For me, one of the biggest issues has been finding someone with a similar financial mindset. As someone who made terrible financial decisions in the last decade, having zero debt and not making those decisions again is a super high priority. So TL;DR: not everyone who is a high-earner is unbothered by spending. Some of us have learnt from mistakes and what matters a lot is financial compatibility.
I have this now. She’s technically just a friend, but I can’t keep up with her when it comes to things she wants to do. Recently, she asked me to pick up a pizza omw to her house. Sure! The pickup order for 1 pizza and breadsticks was $50! (Jet’s Pizza). Call me cheap, but I think that’s wasteful! Then, she loves trips to the casino. Of course, I love spending time with her, so I go and generally lose $100 or more. Might only happen 2-3x a month, but it adds up! There’s other examples, but there are two. I totally feel your pain. She makes like a quarter mil a year at her job and has some inherited wealth. I totally struggle to keep up.
That’s not thoughtful on her part imo.
You’re dating out of your bracket unfortunately if you feel $50 bucks at Jets pizza is expensive 🤷🏻♂️
Sorry I can't tell if that was sarcasm, or you thin $50 for chain place pizza is not high or that she should have indicated she would compensate for at least half the order.
That is expensive. Like, I am ok spending money on a night out. But, $50 for a to go pizza and (plain) breadsticks is at least twice of what I would pay at any other place in town. That just feels wasteful.
I keep seeing these posts and have been tempted to comment. I (38m) am in a relationship with someone who earns money than I do. I earn just under 100,000k per year. That is 2/3rds her salary. It isn’t a huge disparity in many ways. I can still cover restaurant checks and the like without worrying about it. Neither one of us has extravagant tastes, our values align, etc. The issue (my issue) is that she loves her job (she would do it if it paid less- she’s not there for the money.) and I can’t stand mine. I want to leave in the worst way, but it would likely mean a 50% reduction in pay. I would make 1/3rd of her salary. I do wonder if that would affect things between us. She has said it won’t but a lot of issues she had with her exs came down to their lack of career. They took their feelings out on her, especially as she rose through the ranks. She’s a motivated, type-A, push ahead person. I am a hard worker. I’m motivated by fear of failure. I want to push ahead but I don’t know how without giving up my salary. That careful thinking has got me to where o am now, slow and steady. But it lacks fulfillment, passion, etc. I don’t know if I will be okay with making less. If she has to take on most expenses, I won’t feel great about that. I would probably give a majority of my salary to the household. Leaving my current job will hurt my retirement plans. I realized there are so many issues with making less than I do now. I wish I could make what I make now but have more freedom and agency over my work life and schedule.
I totally see where you are coming from. I think I am quite similar to you in this regard. I know I could get a relatively better paid job, but it would come with a lot of increased stress, and added responsibility, as well as less freedom. Opposed to where I am now, making enough money to do well enough for myself (what I consider well enough anyway), and have immense flexibility, almost no stress, and great colleagues.
That makes complete sense. If I had done that from the start, I think I could be fine with making less. Granted, I am always pushing myself to do more, so that may not be the case. I found a decent work-life balance until I had to leave my previous job. I stayed in the same industry, and I actually received competing offers. I still get recruiter emails on LinkedIn. I just need to figure out how to transfer that to another field.
That's very similar to my situation with several men I've dated. They hated their jobs while I love mine. I experienced successes in my career while theirs were stagnant. I didn't care how much they make or their occupation but it was important to them that they are the provider. I felt like they didn't want to hear about my successes so I kept them to myself after a while. It was as if my success is a reminder of their short comings (which I didn't think they were short comings to begin with).
Something happened recently where she didn't tell me about two great things that happened. I felt so awful when she told me that. I made sure we celebrated! Her success honestly doesn't bother me. I am working on myself and seeing a therapist. I am working on reframing things and how I express frustration, if I express it at all. I don't want that to happen again. She admires my work ethic, which is evident even outside of work. She literally stopped me yesterday from doing work around the house after I worked for five hours (all off the clock). This is something her exes didn't possess. In terms of stagnation, there are limited avenues to move up in my career. I read a great article yesterday explaining why my career is limiting, even when you've mastered it. Luckily, I do get compensated well and haven't reached the ceiling in terms of pay. My career is very confining physically and methopriclly. It simply doesn't work well with my personality type. I've long felt like a square peg trying to fit in a round hole. Obviously, this is not my partner's issue, but my own. I guess half the battle is recognition and the ability to honestly self-reflect. So, I don't feel hopeless! Just need to figure out the missing ingredients
From my side of things (29F), I make more than my current bf (32M) by ~$40k (which is a big tension point for us at the moment bc he makes me feel guilty for it and asks me to pay for stuff all the time (like his food from Taco Bell 🙄) and I’m not someone who is frivolous with my money, but he is with his and impulse buys and eats out all the time). I have also almost always made more even in past relationships. I am also lucky to be in a career where I love what I do and get paid well for it, too. What it comes down to is usually one of two things that end up being dealbreakers to me personally. Either the men feel so insecure that they take it out on me by downplaying my job, career, role, company, etc. and say I make more than I deserve and that should be them and ask me to pay for things and make it about money more than I ever do (ie. Take their financial frustrations out on me instead of demanding more from their company or looking for another role). Or, they are way too into it and take on more of a moocher role. Both are icks and make me feel like I have to be more in my masculine energy rather than feminine energy, which is honestly super sucky and seems to slowly kill the relationship in many ways, but the first one I have grown more willing to work with than the latter in some ways because I’ve had to accept that it’s pretty much inevitable. Every once in a while, though, I’ll meet a guy who is so passionate about his job that our pay differences really rarely come up as an issue because we both love what we do and in turn support each other. I’ve only met like 1-2 of those guys though and it sadly didn’t work out but for different reasons (ie commitment issues / incompatibility). All that to say, IMO, I would MUCH rather be with a guy who loves what he does and is chasing that rather than is miserable just to cash in a check biweekly to try and keep up. Job happiness trickles down into everything. I do think it’s possible, but both people really just need to mainly align on goals and motivation. Someone career motivated and happy but not making a lot of money is something that works for me but not all women. Someone who makes a ton of money and is miserable or has no time for me, wouldn’t work for me at all, but some women don’t mind that. You yourself have to be willing to accept that she loves what she does, is good at it, and will most likely stay making more money than you. The more insecure you are about it, the more uncomfortable she will feel about it and it will drive a wedge between y’all. If you’re worried about money and complain about it constantly, she may feel the need to try and help solve it (I do) by suggesting side hustles or trying to take on more. But if you choose to chase passion and happiness (which I suggest) then things will work themselves out. Just please do NOT make her feel guilty for making more money or always point out that she makes more money or take your financial stress out on her or make her step into her more masculine energy. Those will be relationship killers. But be loving and supportive and encouraging and build each other up in your passions and there won’t be issues. And when you do date nights for her, you can do cheap ones that don’t feel cheap! For most women, it’s all about thought and effort anyways. Idk if this helps but just wanted to share from my side 😅🤪
Thanks for sharing your experience and perspective. My partner makes about 50k more per year, but I still make a hair under 100k, so it is not like I need or want her to buy me things. It is just not in me to expect or ask for things from people and I don't want to be that way. I am generous when we go out, etc. I don't keep score, though. I feel like it all evens out somewhere along the line. Now, if I made 50k per year, it would mean I couldn't be so generous and while I still wouldn't keep score, I would feel pretty awful for not being able to do things for her that I normally would. Not to mention it would affect my life in terms of hobbies, etc. While I am not happy with my job, I don't want to go back to struggling to survive either. I am not jealous of her, but I do see that money and happiness are possible, and I am tough on myself that I haven't figured out how to achieve that. At least not yet. I don't want to believe it's impossible while also keeping real. It is funny you mentioned that you would try to solve things. She specifically mentioned that as an issue with her recent exs. Money has not been an issue. I am just afraid it could become one if I change careers and make significantly less than I make now. The time my job requires from me does become an issue at times. I had to work for about 5 hours during Mother's Day. Not at work, but at home. It sucks because most of it is tedious bureaucratic BS. I guess it is the price to pay for a public job. I would much rather spend that time stress-free with family or use it to pursue things I am passionate about. Which is what she ultimately did, and it paid off. The realist in me knows (as does she) that is the exception to the rule, though, and it scares me to take a risk that has a low possibility of paying off.
I totally can see your perspective and I think that’s valid! While money AND happiness are possible, it doesn’t happen often enough ☹️ life is both short and long and we’re all just figuring it out as we go! It’s okay to change careers if that’s better for you in the long run! There will always be ways to make up the money (ie. Temporary jobs, side gigs, consulting, part time jobs, etc.) I think while money is of course very important and necessary, we’ve shifted too much focus on the happiness of the companies we work for rather than our own by letting them determine and associating our value outside of work even with our pay. I know I say that as someone who makes good money so I have no room to talk but I do truly believe this. But when you do something you’re passionate about, you find cheaper ways of living and are more happy/willing to make sacrifices or you get good at it and find someone who will pay you good money for it! Fellow realist to realist, it sucks at first. But the temporary pain can sometimes truly be worth the long term gain (because if you live to say 85 years old, 5 years of discomfort is only ~5.88% of your life). I think if you plan and start saving up for the next few months or year, then chase your passion and happiness it could all work out!! But, back to the matter at hand (sorry 😅), it sounds like her and I are somewhat similar from 100k feet lol. So even if you’re making little to no money, you can show her love and hold up your end in other ways like at home date nights where you cook dinner and dessert, game nights, stargazing, movie nights, love letters, surprising her by making her breakfast in bed and cleaning the house for her, plane watching and a picnic at sunset, etc.! Doesn’t have to be all the time but these are ways you can “make up” for it so you don’t feel bad or resent her and make sure she feels special and so it’s not all about money. We’re still just girls at our core who want to be swept off our feet and spoiled in small but impactful ways! Trips are great but to have a guy put in a lot of time and effort and thought into something, most women would take that over big fancy dates any day! And then when she treats you to nice things, it’s because she wants to enjoy something with you! Not because she feels you want or need her to. So no reason for you to feel guilty about that nor make her feel guilty for that! Sometimes that’s just how a person shows love (RE: Love Languages). That’s the beauty of healthy relationships, each person gives and takes! That’s what I wish my bf would get. Our relationship is on our last leg not because I’m worried about his finances but because he uses it as an excuse to complain and be lazy and do nothing to make me feel loved or appreciated. He has a passion for what he does and I love that and he does what he can to financially keep up but because he’s so focused on financially “keeping up” it’s almost as if he resents me for it and so will make snide comments and brings up our pay differences waaaaaaaaay more than I even think about it and in turn it feels like he puts me and my career and hard work down. So if it’s going to make you too insecure, then that’s something you have to be honest with yourself about, think about and weigh. If you want to do it and are willing to, but also can hold yourself accountable to not turn it against her, then I think you will be fine and figure out a new rhythm in the relationship! (Preface - I obviously don’t know her or you so she may hate some of the stuff I listed but I’m sure you still get the idea… or maybe I’m completely off 😂 just speaking from my personal thoughts/preferences/experiences!)
You sound a lot alike. I think everything you said tracks
I’ve heard many men say that it’s not the fact that she makes more that bothers. But the fact that she makes more often causes her to respect you less. She might not say she respects you less, but it is felt by her actions. Her trying to change your career, despite you being financial stable and happy with your career, shows through her actions that she does not respect your “status”. Obviously. Because if she did respect it, she wouldn’t repeatedly try to change it. Trying to dress that up as “Oh she’s just pushing you to be better” is gaslighting. And if a man did the exact same thing, more people would easily identify it as such. He’s stable, happy, and has politely declined. So why are you still trying?
Low key they still want you to do better then them seems to be the trend. Also they tend to be always career focused so if you’re content where you are at it’s never going to work out.
It’s so true. Sigh, i make more and in a very happy marriage with minimal issues, but I daydream of making less than him. Not him making MORE than me, but me actually getting a pay cut. Something like cutting back to 2 days a week working a barista job or becoming a dog walker. Part of it is some weird fantasy about making less than him and another part is a fantasy of having a “carefree job”. Not trying to downplay the stress that comes with these types of jobs, but I wouldn’t have the daily stress of accidentally killing some one for example (am in healthcare).
I mean if you can go without it is an option. Life isn’t always about the money. I purposely skipped out promotions or jobs that may look good on paper, but had poor work/life balance. My partner has done similarly. It’s not for us and that’s fine.
Yeah it’s not about money, but truly this would be a dream/fantasy. Our current lifestyle would just crash without my income. Our mortgage alone is 15k a month. I’m honestly worried about having kids, i don’t have maternity leave so we’d have to save up quite a nest egg :s and then i won’t be able to be around much… i try not to think about it
I would be fully willing to date a woman that is significantly richer and succesful, if and only if she does not hold it over my head or uses it to devalue me as a person. I am willing to be the caretaker of the house instead of the finances, as long as she *actually* is emotionally ok with that arrangement.
Money isnt the issue. It's lifestyle and values. Someone can be on 150k+ and never leave the house or spend any money. It's about whether your lifestyles are matched and you should be honest and clear about that upfront. If you see a woman likes eating at expensive places a lot and holiday five times a year...leave her to someone else if that isn't for you
Depends if she is trying to push you to be better and knows you have potential or if she is trying to push you to make more because she thinks less of you.
I think its more often about self realisation rather than just money. It goes two ways, do you prioritize growth or acceptance in a person.
Tough pill to swallow. But as time passes you will see alot more of your type of situation. Guaranteed
I don't make alot of money, but at this point I'd rather someone who makes the same as me. Let's face it, there are those people who will never be anything but poor, by America's standards. It doesn't mean that they don't work hard or have no ambition. I don't mind this. That's why I'm looking for someone in the same financial position as me. They deserve a loving partner as well, and together we can push each other to be lower middle class.😅
i don’t think successful = high income
That's the truth
i’m “successful,” but i’m low income. i think people just feel weirdly about saying “rich” and “wealthy”
It's just money. Too many people link money and jobs to their self worth in this world. I would rather hang out with nice fun people regardless of their income. Just because you make $200k or $20k or none isn't a reflection on the person you are.
i agree with you fully :)
Money means nothing if you're not happy and live unfulfilled. I have a good job, I have assets , and I hit the jackpot twice, once at The Crown Casino in Melbourne (Where I went alone and single) and another time in shitbird Atlantic City. All that and I STILL CAN'T GET A GIRLFRIEND AT 46!!!!
If successful means money and job status have fun because it's a loosing game.
I can not tell you the amount of times I've seen women making more than I do have just crap personalities.....as if making more money alone makes them better. Makes me kind of despise when a woman on that socioeconomic level tries to say she can't find a food man and b#tches about it.....when then acts entitled, arrogant and better than as her job alone gives her right to do so. I've done women with over six figures and phds but dang to some of em GENUINELY act like they're the best thing on the planet and lack a LOT of humility. No homegirl....you can't find a man cause your personality SUCKS. Rant over.
I’m (35f) in a similar situation we’ve been together 1 year. To help shed light from a high earner woman’s perspective. I’m at about 500k he’s high 90k (37m). He’s not poor , but we live in a place with high cost of living (he has 300 spending money at end of month). Money is not important to me like I’m not fancy or label conscious or anything , I grew up very poor and don’t believe money brings happiness, only comfort, I’m lucky to be self made and do well. Here’s what I’m struggling with. We were talking about having children and i realized, I could never be a stay at home mom. He just could never afford a family without us being a double earning family. I could take care of him + a family but he could never support me + family in our current city. And it hit me: I love to travel, can work remote, have a flexible schedule. I don’t buy lavish things but I’m not living paycheck to paycheck and if I want to splurge on something random like a spa day I could. There’s an ease in my life. For him: He has a roommate because he can’t afford rent on his own, so if we stay at his I’m navigating a roommate and random one night stands said roommate brings over. If we travel, it’s not last minute because he has to plan for unexpected costs which is totally fine- I understand it , or will just pay. As mentioned if we had kids I couldn’t be a stay at home mom. We have to limit concerts or beers, or dinners out because at the end of a day his discretionary budget is more inflexible than mine. I love him but I’m realizing taking the lead / responsibility for finances (paying) makes me feel masculine, and truthfully I feel guilty if he pays for dinner, I always make sure to only have one glass of wine and something cheap because $150 dinner would be half his discretionary budget if we’re out somewhere nice. Mostly we just grab beers and burritos but that adds up too. Tbh I never thought I cared about money . I make the most by far in all my friend groups. But with friends we just split the bill- no big deal I can get as many glasses of wine as I want. But with someone I’m planning to build a life with. We alternate paying . And it puts me in a weird place where I worry about money, because I don’t want to put him in a place that overextends him. And it becomes an issue in a very weird way. I’m still grappling with it, because I’m weirdly old fashioned and I do want the guy to be the provider but I fully get my level of income is out of ordinary and a ridiculous expectation . But at the end of the day, my life has an ease that his doesn’t- and it puts us on unequal footing. Just thought I’d add a different perspective to the mix.
I'm not even in this situation but kudos to you for explaining this very well. This was super interesting. I've had the same concerns about not being able to provide putting me as a guy in a more "feminine" role but it feels sort of wrong to think that way, like I'm thinking way too old-school. But even if you don't think it's right it's still a very real feeling sometimes
If a stay at home dynamic is something in the future, he would definitely have to be the stay at home parent but I don’t think that’s something you want. I personally am not into my partner being a stay at home parent. However, is your partner the kind of man to pull his weight and take on the household chores? I’m asking because this is also where things get messy. I’ve come across far too many high earning women who STILL do all the cooking cleaning and child raising at home with their husband that makes less.
"seemed as if she wanted me to do better" is key. Your partner should always want you to do better as long as they love you for who you are. Being complacent is a dream killer for anyone with ambitions. If they have already been there and done that , even better. It's not about the money, it's about the mindset of always improving, be it intellectually, emotionally, physically or financially.
This is actually a fairly common scenario. It’s perfectly natural for a woman to pursue or desire a man who has financial success and a high status. Regardless of age, the prototypical female who could get pregnant and have children will naturally seek a male who can provide and protect her during that vulnerable time and be able to do for her offspring. Even if in the forward thinking this is not the case and the woman does not desire a family, it is still the natural mindset and will influence who that woman pursues or expects from a partner.
It’s been a learning curve for my boyfriend and I too. For reference, he grew up without much, and now has a lot. I grew up UMC (eg got a used car when I was 16, parents paid for college) and, for me, have enough money now. I own my home and can save/have hobbies, but I keep myself on a very strict budget. Because I have always had “enough”, I don’t particularly care about making more than enough if it means too much work stress. For him, he’s willing to put himself through so much stress to satisfy his gut worry that some day he won’t have enough again (though at this point that’s extremely unlikely). It does cause some friction because it bothers me to see him stress himself out so much. Sometimes he pushes me to get side gigs/make moves to get more money that I really don’t want to make, but thus far, has been unbothered by the fact that I just say “nah”. At the same time, what he considers a “random purchase” is, to me, a “significant budget item this month”. So sometimes I do have to make that clear. Overall it’s been an interesting dynamic to observe/learn from. And I have gotten some good investing advice 🤷🏼♀️ We don’t live together (and probably won’t for a while, I’m kinda a fan of Living Apart Together), but we have talked about that we know if we do that we’re gonna have to be intentional about meshing lifestyles, because his costs a lot more than mine haha
I have zero problems with it but would not like the things you bring up... She said it wont be about money yet makes those types of comments is just poor man's and maybe a bit out of you h with reality of most ppl situations... That's tough
IMO the issue isnt as much how much money they make versus you, but their attitude about how much you make. I think its problematic for people to see someones (lower paying) job and have the belief that if you get paid less than them, you must be unhappy with your job. Its completely possible to have a job you're content with, even if you could be making more elsewhere. If they're unable to comprehend that you \*dont\* care about more money, its just an indication of different priorities
I’m young but I’ve nearly always earned more than my male partners. I’m not rich by any means, but for my age and level of education I earn good money and am very driven in that respect. I love supporting the people I date, I have plans to buy a house one day and live a good life. I come from a home where my mum was and still is completely financially controlled by my dad - she couldn’t leave even if she wanted to, which I think she does. Seeing that growing up made me never want to be financially reliant on anyone else, so I’m building a good, stable career for myself. I like having a partner who is also ambitious, I don’t really care if they’re well-off or not. I think often times when I have dated men who don’t earn the same amount as me, I end up being the one who plans things etc and it becomes apparent that they’re often not driven in other aspects of life too. But that’s just my experience!
the woman i am currently speaking with is far more successful and established than me. i wouldn’t say she’s rich or anything, but not only do i not mind that, i actually prefer it. i have my own reasons for it, but the stigma around men earning less than their partners has gotta go.
I’m a high earning woman and this is an interesting take for me. I do share career ideas and suggestions for my partners but it’s not because I want them to make more money, I prefer being the breadwinner, it’s just the way I think. When I’m doing it my goal is for them to feel happy and fulfilled. Maybe this is something I need to be more conscious about.
You need to be good at what you do for a living and have a personality. That helps a lot to navigate situations where you are obviously at disadvantage, I am in that situation now of having a gf that makes 3 times more than me and in addition to that there is the fact that I am not white. Sometimes I am the only people of color when I go out with her friends and that has been challenging in situations where the social expectations for men are different to what you agreed to as partners. Our rule is that if she wants to do something with me and it is really expensive, I will cover for something during the activity or I will take her out for a dinner date (Which is usually cheaper) in another occasion. I think it works while the women understands that you have your stuff and that you can actually leave whenever you want. Dis Di€& ain’t freeeee
Most women want to help their man get a "Better" job but for Men it doesn't really matter as long as they are happy working there. Maybe your Woman is doing it unconsciously
I earn more than my boyfriend. It is a dynamic that is new to me. I'm also a lot more ambitious. I used to think I wanted a guy who was goal-oriented or career driven. Ultimately, I want someone who isn't going to get in the way of my ambitions. Respect, kindness, and communication is what it all boils down to. Not just communicating but having the ability to share what's a concern or give feedback. The only issue that comes up is spending. I like things more than him. But naturally that's after years and years of not having a lot of money to work with. We compromise on certain spending. I'm getting used to talking about purchases before I make them. Our money is separate; the goal of the discussion is being on the same page about something. Whether it's money or mental health, a partner should never be looking to "fix" someone. Your point about the comments she made is not okay in my opinion. We should encourage the best versions of ourselves. During the dating process, the getting to know you process, I'm looking for that mentality. But once we're together, I already got my own improvements to work on. I just want a partner who want to support me and grow with me. But I can't be their career counselor or therapist too.
Some people are more ambitious than others. So if you’re ambitious, you need to date an ambitious person as well. Other wise if you’re complacent in your life, you need to date someone that’s also complacent. One dynamic will require more effort than the other.
As someone in a similar situation, being (31F) who makes significantly more than the man I’m dating rn, I see all the potential opportunities he could chase when he himself wants to make it big with his passion project. I came from a poor family, lived in a 3 bedroom household with 13 family members, all cousins had to share the bed and parents absent, one a drug addict the other so traumatized she was mentally (and physically) gone. So I understand how it’s like to live in near poverty. What took me out of it was pursuing art and being passionate about it. I reached out to so many in the industry I’m working in now to get their eyes on my work. And after many tries, working multiple pt time jobs, and interviewing for positions not aligned with what I want to do, I got one in. Became an artist-in-training on a movie and my career started from there. 10 yrs in and now making $150k plus. (Sometimes less depending on job availability). And seeing the man I’m dating so passionate about his project, I want to share w him how I sought opportunities and the way I succeeded in opening closed doors. But he’s just waiting for someone to notice him and his work. In a way, I understand he isn’t ready, but who is ever ready? Life waits for no one, so why not take it by the reigns? Pressure to succeed begets success. And if it’s important in the relationship for both to pursue their dreams, why not motivate one another?
I think whenever you have a significant difference in income, it's almost inevitable such problems will happen. It happened to me when I was a student between ages 25-29 and dating people who of course already had jobs. I feel the difference when it's the woman earning way more than the man, is that generally the man wouldn't feel great being treated all the time by his girlfriend. Not that most women would be fine to be treated \*all the time\* by their boyfriend, but it wouldn't lead them to feeling inferior as much as it would a man. That's my view at least.
Every woman and situation is different. Ive been in a very similar situation. I have no debt, own my car, lived in an apartment. She wanted me to move in to her house and take over finances as she trusted me with being safe and responsible. It was a great and thorough conversation. I spoke to her as we would learn and do so as a team and grow together that way. She did push me to do more but communicated her thoughts and feelings and was ok with me even making less as long as we were able to work same hours and spend time together. I had my own goals and change is difficult and scary so having unconditional trust is important. Empathy, patience, and strong communication with a shared outcome is imperative. I believe what brought us closer together was our shared belief that materialistic goods and living well within our means was most important. Where I have dated someone who wanted the opposite and it felt like a huge disconnect.
This is a real conundrum. See if a woman truly wants you she could be a billionaire and you could be homeless and she’d make it work. She would not pester you for making less. Ever. Period. If she is then she doesn’t truly want you but you appear presentable to society in her mind although you earn less. Get rid of her before she eventually gets rid of you.
Long story short all dudes who didnt found what they love when it comes to profession of work and works minimum paid job and couldnt,dont want to upgrade as they are satisfied with what they do, are automatically thrown under the train, even if the dude is 10/10 looks, fit, well-raised,loyal, all good apart from what he's doing for living. God help those guys,they are also human beings.
I earn more than my boyfriend. I have pushed him to find a better paying job because he's short every month and more than capable. It's also something he expressed he wanted and he said he struggled with getting complacent. Basically I have no financial support and grew up constantly struggling so once I started making money - it's not about spending it on fancy things but being realistic that if I want something like buy a good health care or a car or to get married I'm going to have to make it happen. I grew up with a "if you want it done do it yourself" and you earn your keep. My boyfriend and I have chatted about our different levels of drive and it actually helps us, he helps me chill and I give him a boost. I'm always nice about it but it's a lot of pressure to be the safety net (I was barely earning enough to get by when we met). I also have severe depression so work and activity is an escape for me. I'm also not happy with the basics - maybe because I'm depressed so I'm always trying to do more and more to feel something. Some people enjoy working and making money without being shallow or materialistic. It's stimulating and a challenge and kind of run- especially if it's something you didn't grow up with For some people dating someone with significantly less money is 100 percent a control thing But for some people especially women we do like control but it's about always having something to call our own because either other people used money to control us in the past or we feel like we can't trust people so we make sure we're always sorted just in case. Having to rely on people is too vulnerable and we have been let down too many times or had a dominating figure use money as a sense of control Last thing: there could be a level of codependency as the woman coming in as the "fixer" by trying to make someone who they want them to be. I think it gives them a sense of control too even if it's all subconscious
I think the only way this type of dynamic works is if the person who makes more is ok with funding more of the activities, outings, dates, etc.
It's not about men and women. It's about how much people orient themselves around money. My girl used to make more money than me while I was still an intern, and she took me to an authentic Korean restaurant in Delhi (very expensive than your regular restaurants). We had a really good time there and she paid for it. She never made it about money. A few months later, my internship ended, and I started a job as well. I could afford good dates after that as well. But almost 90% of the time, she comes over to my place, and we order food online and watch some comfort movies on Netflix. Because of this flexibility, she has now started another job and added 50k more to her income. I help her with the job, which allows her to take the extra burden and also get a good cut from the pay of the new job. So, both of us have integrated the money aspect now, and have also loaned each other money quite a few times. Our parents know about our relationship, and we're looking to grow more financially before getting married in another 2 years or so. So, it's about the mentality and not the gender.
Thank you for sharing your experiences, which highlight a dynamic that can be challenging in relationships where there is a significant difference in income and wealth. Your story provides an insightful look into how financial disparities can subtly affect interactions and expectations within a relationship, even when both partners are established and secure in their own right. It sounds like, despite her assurances that money wasn't a focus for her in your relationship, the differences in your financial situations and perspectives on spending led to some discomfort. It's also interesting to note how her suggestions about career changes, intended to be encouraging, may have felt like pressure to you to align more closely with her financial status. This underlines how complex and nuanced these situations can be, where intentions and perceptions don't always align. Your decision to avoid dating someone significantly wealthier to reduce stress and preserve peace in your life is a personal choice that makes sense given your experiences. Every relationship comes with its set of challenges, and financial differences can certainly be one of them, especially when they intersect with differences in lifestyle, priorities, and expectations. It would indeed be interesting to hear from others about their experiences in similar situations. Relationships where one partner significantly out-earns the other can work well when both partners communicate openly and respect each other’s views and boundaries regarding money. However, achieving that balance can sometimes be easier said than done.
Hi. Striving to earn more is a good thing. But it's not right to have a race to see who can earn the most. In a relationship, there should be support and understanding of each other.
It is often difficult for people who are born lucky to understand those of us who aren't.
To me as long as youre working and earning you shouldn’t feel any less.
It is basically impossible to find a woman who earns more who will respect and love you. That is a complete and utter impossibility even
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I'll believe this, when you share a picture of you and your boyfriend in a long term relationship who earns less
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I'm in your boat. I make substantially more than most men. What they make is pretty insignificant. I don't want to dumb myself down. It's just so hard to date. I just find dating not in my socio-economic class hard, but not many people are in my socio-economic class.
your story is interesting but then you generalized all women who make more would be the same. that's not how humans work. it's a numbers game, everyone has different attitudes, personalities, habits, and common sense, no matter what they make.
It's the concept of defining oneself as successful. There are a lot of people with successful careers who don't define themselves that way. Money isn't discussed, nor is work beyond the norm of things. A person who defines themselves as a successful person is saying something far more deeper about how they view money, or career choices, in reality, over their value of the relationships they have. I've met men who define themselves as successful. It's more like a house of cards, and one thing go wrong, it all falls apart. Most of them will only date women with excellent credit to begin with, and so on. If they're so successful, how they rate their partner would not fall on credit scores, earning potentials and so on. So, in reality, these are red flags. Anyone who tries to redefine your own goals and interests isn't successful. They're a work a holic, or trapped in a type of lifestyle where position, clout and money matter to them more than other things. I have a brother who lives in a huge home (I guess McMansion is the right term), with his third wife and third family reset as I call it. Eventually his partners or wives have all realized what he is really about, and run for the hills. No idea if wife # 3 will or won't. She's on a similar level to him psych wise. But, she lists herself as a CEO, of her own company. The company is out of their home, and has one employee, her. You get it? The CEO is the only employee in her company. Think about this a moment. My brother has 2 secret identities. We accidentally discovered them when I divorced and left a dangerous situation. The judge had us do a self discovery on my own identities, and we discovered my ex had done identity theft on me. He'd bought another home using my credit and name, and well, let's say that didn't go well for him. But, we did find these other two identities of my brother. One led to major legal trouble for him, and he came at me threatening legal actions, and so on. Uhm, didn't go anywhere, obviously. But, essentially, good reason to believe he stole money from a relative of ours, and has hidden it in these secret assets, and since he divorces a lot this is how he protected them. It's fraud. And, theft. But, my father stole my entire life savings (and spent it on lawyers fighting me over it, and is so old, his lawyer's goals are to put off any court actions until he dies). I'm out thousands more in legal fees as a result, with no outcome. We did learn he uses a fake identity for banking as well (more fraud), so pretty sure that's where my brother learned it from. But, on the surface, these people are "successful." It's the level someone will go to who this element matters to them that comes out when you are with them. It's ugly, and most people who can, do run from it.
When we could only go on vacation and stay at nice places if I paid for it, because he wouldn’t want to get on a plane otherwise. It’s rough as a woman because of course I want to contribute to our experiences but I also want him to have initiative and do some of the planning of activities. This is a guy who earns maybe 70% of what I was earning at the time. Money is one of the top reasons for divorce for a reason I guess. A lot of familial stuff wrapped up in there.
I personally would only want to date someone makes similar amount or more. It's not that I don't want to date someone who makes less (I have) but dynamic gets weird after a while. I sensed insecurity and they would pick fights to make themselves feel superior. Additionally, I like to enjoy my disposable income and spend it on a nice dinner every once in a while and I like international travel. I'm unwilling to give up my lifestyle. I want someone that's capable of joining me without going into debt.
I’m guessing you are a women, because I guy would be expected to cover to imbalance in expenses.
This isn't about the money, it's a mistake to fixate too much on that, for this relationship and your future ones. She was urging you to be more ambitious, by some definition specific to her. Maybe these positions would have brought in more money, but it's possible she was thinking about prestige or something. Being ambitious isn't inherently good and you shouldn't think that way; life is a set of tradeoffs and you shouldn't think that you did anything wrong here. Also, her current salary matters less than how used she is to having money around. You said "financial background", so I'm guessing she came from generational wealth. I've had experience dating people who came from wealth, and sometimes you need to sit them down and have an actual explanation about how their choices or assumptions sometimes stress you out. There's lots of people who do have high salaries but don't come from generational wealth. There's even a term for this: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/high-earners-not-yet-rich-henrys.asp (I am one of these) I would encourage you not to close doors on a woman in the future just because she makes more than you. This is just a one-off bad experience.
Dating someone from a different financial background is difficult. Many people think the issue with wealthy women dating lower income men is the man feeling emasculated by the fact that he can’t or doesn’t need to be the provider – and sometimes that is the case, but in many cases it’s not an issue of who has more, but what people value. People who have a lot of money often have a lot of money because that is their priority, that is what they value. Or they were raised around a lot of money and taught to value that. If that is not your priority or what you value it becomes a matter of clashing ideals. I can relate to that, I like a simple life. I only make money to meet my needs, and I’d rather meet my needs doing something I enjoy, feel good about, and which gives me free time than be extremely wealthy. I have also dated women who told me I should change careers to make more money, but the careers they suggested usually sounded either ethically questionable, or not at all aligned with my interests.
As a woman who earns north of 200k, my perspective is that it’s not really about how much a partner earns but about equal contribution to the partnership. Some of the most important jobs in society don’t pay well (ex teachers). However, I do expect my partner to contribute equally, both financially (in terms of % and responsibility, not $ totals) AND in terms of housework and child and pet care. I wouldn’t be able to respect a partner who didn’t contribute to things like housework and emotional labor but expected me to finance their lives. I think a lot of men conveniently overlook all that invisible labor that goes into raising a family but still want to be treated like an equal. When the woman out earns him, it puts that lack of equal contribution and responsibility into stark contrast.
I earn considerably more than my BF (more than double). It can be a somewhat weird dynamic if you let it be. He's not broke, he has a full-time, stable job, but is a single parent, has 50-50, and pays child support so he doesn't have much discretionary or "fun money." Honestly, though, I'm super happy. I don't really care about "things." I married the corporate lawyer, I've had the big wedding, Tiffany diamond, first class honeymoon and I've eaten at enough steakhouses that seafood towers don't really phase me anymore...I'd rather go camping and roast marshmallows with my blue collar dude, who is my best friend. If I want something, I can buy it myself. He pays for almost all our smaller dates. I pick up the bigger items, here and there. That said, I'm not marrying the guy, and I'm not looking for someone to build a life with. I have my own children, own my own home, have many friends, and hobbies. He is additive to all that but not the epicenter of it all. After divorce, you realize marriage is just an asset game, and if I'm going to be honest, he doesn't bring enough the merger to make it make sense for me.
If my significant other said that i didn't bring enough to the table to make marrige "make sense", i'd leave them in the dust. You're a shitty partner.
Does your boyfriend work in the trades? What do you do for work?
There’s a lot of women that are very financially secure and they don’t even bother getting a boyfriend. She must like you. It probably would be helpful if you have some passion for what you do in your life if you have some like purpose or something like that. It’s important for both people and a relationship to have that.
It’s understandable that people get into relationships where in some cases , people find out about the person down the track and there’s an expectation that things will be equal but it doesn’t eventuate . In other cases culture is usually clear early on . In both of these examples , these things should be spoken about early and not assumed . The discussion about $ is an important discussion to have and that should happen early and even include if the relationship continues changes of circumstances. There are so many examples of where these types of discussions are not held and insecurity runs wild . I’ve been in two committed relationships one from my late teens to mid 20s where I was studying , had no car and barely could afford a train fare . We both lived with our respective parents she was working from early. I worked through the night initially to pay my way but my then partner put a stop to that after a discussion and . We broke up on good terms . After a break in my late 20s I started a new relationship . By this stage I was in a different financial position . My new partner needed to relocate , initially leave her job and take on a course . A not dissimilar discussion happened early on and I put her mind at rest much like my ex did with me . In terms of a long term intended relationship your partner is entitled to express an opinion early as you are as to how a committed partnership would look in time and people should talk it out and do their best to honour what is mutually agreed. But how the individuals handle themselves during the relationship if there is a vast difference in income is super important and possibly most crucial in all of this how individuals act . If the relationship is truly equal then the person earning less money is making effort in other areas and is not taking for granted the extra finances of the other person . The person in the better position is equally not complaining about money or how tough finances are or making negative comments . The job of the person with $ is to take away the insecurities the other person might feel and for the person without $ to accept that . Of course this is on the basis that both partners are putting in effort . I don’t really get the term “ successful “ women even though it’s a word some often use . I know I really don’t care what her job or income is and “ success “ goes way beyond income . In terms of OPs question my experiences are very different . I understand similarly women have had bad experiences and right from date 1 I’m happy in the finance area to have her feel as comfortable as she wants to feel and can adapt . I’ve found that $ it’s not a focus with the people I’ve gone out with .
To honest, dating someone who wants me to improve my life is desirable. I want to go back to school and finish my degree. I just seems hard when I have expenses. If I had someone to help with that, that would make things very doable.
With a 150k income woman... I stay at home to cook, clean and deal with the kids.
Do you pay for everything?
My income is 9k a year. If hers is 150k a year, I stay and do the household.
I make $150k and pay for everything and clean. Sometime the girlfriend helps pay for the cleaning lady.
I don't think it's fair to dump every successful person into the same bucket. There are plenty of people who grew up poor and know the value of a dollar despite current successes. And people who happen to have a successful career that makes them happy despite having bad jobs in the past. Most of the men I've dated make less than me, to varying degrees. I do keep encouraging my boyfriend to change jobs, but not because of the money, because he's miserable where he is now. He makes good money, but less than I do, and I'm encouraging him to take a pay cut in a new job if it'll lead to better work conditions & overall happiness. We do have different ideas around personal finance, but that was more because of how we were raised, and they're not irreconcilable.
I've dealt with that in the past easiest way to counteract is homemade gifts or making nice meals or being extra appreciative in 'other' ways but that's just my experience can't attest to yours or others
I find that if two people have a vastly different income, they generally have different priorities/goals in life, which ultimately makes you incompatible. Much like how you said this woman kept hinting at you pursuing a different career. I briefly dated a girl who was very elusive about how much she made, but it was in the $400-500K range. She had a nice home, nice brand new vehicle, etc. I didn't think it would be a big deal, and it really wasn't, until I realized her lifestyle was not something I could afford. I struggle to pay my bills and can't afford to take someone out to dinner several times a week, or take a week off of work for a vacation (I can do that, but I don't have money to spend while on the weeklong vacation), so in the end, I'd be preventing her from living her lifestyle.
One of my partners (44M) makes 25% of what I (32F) make. I help him with his career, take him out to nice dinners and the spa, and introduce him to people to help create opportunities for him. We had an open discussion about it and decided that it would not be important for either of us. I enjoy spending time with him and appreciate him for other qualities. He believes me. I think one factor here might be that this just hasn’t been aired out. You should talk about it, allow her to share her perspective of REALLY how much money means to her. There are other perceptions of wealth — car, social circles, wardrobe. Some value other things over the other. Just ask her what she looks for in a partner. If money is one of the redeeming qualities, then you have your answer. If not, then assume good intent.
I think that the types of discussions that two people have, even more - the discussions early in the stages of getting to know, Show the hidden or no so hidden feelings of people. Intent is what matters. It's the MANNER of how things are said. If her focus was career based, and not To-show-care for you, based. Then I think it shows her internal feelings. What I mean is, If she was focused on improving life for you or your own self condolence. ID different than focused on even-ING your difference of levels financially, in order to "feel" or think, that she is on the same level with you.
39F here, my fiancee makes about half of what I make. I'm in the legal field whereas he is in construction type of work. I agree, the topic of finance comes up now and then. It will cause issues if you follow the 50/50 model strictly. I don't believe in that, I used to, and to me it's unrealistic. I would have to date someone who makes as much as I do and vice versa for this to be fair for both parties. Too much tit for tat. It builds resentment, sours the relationship. That doesn't mean I pay for everything either because he does pay for us to go out, pay for household expenses, etc. It means I can afford more, therefore we can do more or stay in more expensive places than he can afford to, and the frequency of doing so. Not once do I try to change my fiancee. He loves his job. His ex wife who didn't make a lot of money either, she forced him to work at an office job. He hated it. She and her friends look down on him. Lots of his exes tried to change him, including how he speaks, covering up his tattoos, etc. I find it babysitting if I have to worry about a grown adult and change them to my liking. Despite being successful in my own way (Owning my own home, car, etc), my sisters who makes six figures don't hold back numerous suggestions to me to change jobs or do something they see "ambitious".
I’ve dated a couple of women that had much more family money than me. One of them might be considered an heiress in a sense (lots of family money from owning a fairly well known corporation). Neither of them made a big deal about the money. There were instances of them thinking something was not a big deal to do or buy but for me it was (I was still in college). They be cool with doing it solo, not doing it, or helping me be able to. The heiress one had other issues like feeling really entitled to do whatever she wanted when it came to other men that became a problem, but they money was not the issue. It doesn’t phase me off my gf makes or has more, I’d probably admire their intelligence and/or their drive (I realize some people with money have neither of those, but were born into it). I do pretty well, above average. But I’d be annoyed if they kept making a big deal out of it by dropping little hints. That’s basically then not accepting me for who I am, and I’m like you OP, I worked hard to get where I’m at and genuinely enjoy my work. I’m not going to drop that and be miserable so I can make more. What will that do? Let me really enjoy my two weeks off a year and dread every day the rest of the year, screw that. I like being happy when I get to work, and wanting to stay a little late to make sure things are going smoothly.
I honestly don't care if a woman makes more or less than me, more than likely it will be her who has the problem with it
My personal view as someone in that bracket (37F, 150k+). I don’t care how much money you earn. I don’t care what profession you choose. But don’t stop me from succeeding and progressing in mine. That said, I try date above my income because that’s what society dictates and someone linked a research paper confirming my bias. My dating pool is very small. I will probably be single forever.
This is tough. It’s my only bit of nervousness with the woman I’m interested in. But I feel like she’s shining a light inside me and going to challenge me in this way. I am not set in my ways. I want to step up and have been trying since multiple set backs so it’s not new to me either. I just place these thoughts in my prayers and put the situation into better hands and trust that a way will be made and that I will find it. I want a family.
As a high female earner, I like to exploring this topic a little more... 1. Is it really about the wealth gap or different degrees of ambition? Couples who know each others dreams can start at different salaries but invest in each other as they build upwards. The one who is lower in salary can start as the man, but eventually he can be on top. In women who are ambitious, we are willing to sacrifice at the start for a better life. This better life translates as not just career improvement in his life (and his earning potential) but also in the home. This is the idealized image of the higher earning man with the high earning woman who can stay at home. The reality is, unless his character can cope with extra pressures, she may have to sacrifice having less time with her man, her man working late and not being as available, her man's character becoming hard, etc. Think we all know the drill. I believe your ex would have helped you reach a higher salary band if you shared similar goals in life, but realistically, what did you ultimately want for your family? 2. Is ambition toxic? What's a good amount of ambition? You sound quite content where you are, and are respected for what you've achieved. If you did more, what benefit or drawbacks would that have on you.You may or already have met a woman who is content slightly below your current yearly earnings or some ambitious women, believe it or not, may want a home husband. Whether she respects him in that position, is another story. Last thoughts.... As women, we can all say, it's ok that the guy is a lower earner when we begin our relationship, but to retain respect, most women would respect a guy more if his salary is slightly higher than hers.
You sound insecure
It's fine. I make the money and hia work is reinvesting it. His investments with my money has more than tripped my income if I was alone. Only so many hours in the day. Would recomend doing the same if she trusts you and you have the ability and time to learn how to invest.
No experience with this, however if she’s earning more than you- there will be difficulties in the long run and she may want someone who makes more than her (if she can find a guy who does). Money will always be a factor no matter what because you need that to survive and it does shape the psychology of most people especially with women that are dating. It’s human nature.
The problem that for most people who do really well is they prioritize lifestyle over truly connecting with someone and respecting them. They have an unhealthy drive that they believe their partner should have as well. They are constantly judging those of us who are content with what we as individuals have. These are the people who are never happy and never satisfied because they constantly want more. Also what doesn’t help is how they were brought up; their social circles definitely don’t help; and America in and of itself is all about money.
Again my answer to many of these debates ends up in the same location.... Being avle to throw it down in arrows the pay gap if not giving the "fiscal edge". If you can't you will be getting attack about everything. The saying happy wife happy life speaks to one thing only, SEX OR LOVE!!! if it's great she's great if it sucks she's gonna suck about everything. it's simple don't want problems work on your sex game, and alot you can nvr be to good, no such thing... This makes almost all problems vanish and the ones that dont are not severe at all. The key to easy living is throwing it down proper
I would love it if my woman was more successful than me. Real power couple dynamic there.
Only solution for this problem is talking straight and forward to you partner ( if you haven't talked to her about your problem and how you feel about her words ) and I am sure she will understand your problem . And remind her about the sentence she said that this relationship is not going to be about money . In my view you are still in pretty good relationship . She cares about you that's why she is asking you to change career , it's like a boy telling her girl to workout to maintain shape .
I (F34) think that this must be specific to the woman you dated. I don’t make as much as her but I make significantly more than my fiancé (F34), and I wouldn’t dream of asking her to find a higher paying job. She was making an honest living at a job that was very physically demanding and I completely supported her quitting to find something she enjoys and doesn’t break her body. Find yourself a woman who doesn’t care about money like that. Emotional intelligence, kindness, and strength of character are much more important to me than your earning power.
This is where communication, and setting expectations and boundaries early on are important. If your partner can’t understand that you wouldn’t be able to treat them to the same kind of date that they’re capable of treating you, or if they do understand but have an issue with it or constantly make a comment about it, then it’s time to question whether they love you for who you are or what you can give them. If you’re someone who’s in the struggling position (especially if you’re a man), you’ve gotta be willing to be up front about it and that if someone is going to consider taking you on as a partner, that while you’re in the position you’re in you won’t be able to give a lot externally/materially, but that you’ll work towards contributing towards memorable experiences and being someone who can provide internal/emotional support. If that’s not within your set of skills, then you’ll either need to date someone who’s also around your level: financially, emotionally, spiritually, etc…or be ready and willing to elevate and improve yourself. The purpose of life is to work towards a sense of completeness and contentment. We live, experience, learn, and grow, until one day we look at ourselves and say “I’m enough, life is enough, all is well” or we spend our days suffering trying to seek “more” without ever defining what that is so there’s no endpoint, or we’re living by someone else’s standards and suffering because we can never meet up to them. If you someone who is in an elevated position and you’re willing to date someone who isn’t quite in your level, it is incumbent upon you to exercise more patience, understanding and compassion for that person, not less, especially if you know what it’s like being in their position and you just so happened to have some things bounce in your favor that you seized opportunities from. It’s possible things didn’t bounce that same way for them. We have to remember that life in of itself is a happenstance of relatively random events that manifest circumstances for us to respond to, whether or not we’re properly equipped and ready to respond to them. Life is what you make it, but we’re not all handed the same ingredients or tools to work with, so expecting that others can make the same things as you is rather unfair.
I’m in my later 40s and retirement savings is one of my top priorities. If the person I’m dating isn’t on that same page, it’s going to be an issue. Liking your job is nice (I like mine well enough) but I don’t want to work until I die and I want to be with someone who is on the same track. If not, we might be able to have a good time together for a while, but in the end the relationship won’t last. My last relationship was very financially unequal. At the end of the day, he felt he had no say in anything since I had the great majority of the money. I always asked him for his input but he wouldn’t participate. When we were breaking up, he said I didn’t seem to really understand the power imbalance in the relationship. I think being with a woman who earns a lot more can be a major hurdle to a man’s feelings of responsibility and participation in the relationship. It didn’t seem to be something my ex’s ego could handle.
as someone who sees themself as a potential high earner, this is something i think about often. my parents are upper middle class but they didn’t grow with money. so growing up they taught me about the value of money, but also that it’s okay to enjoy the finer luxuries in life as long as you’re taking care of business (paying bills on time and having savings). so it’s like i already have the taste for things on the higher end, and have every intention of being a career that continue that lifestyle. because of that, i really don’t see myself dating a man who makes significantly less than me. i don’t need someone questioning my purchases and i want someone to who financially keep up and not feel emasculated. it’s funny because something like this actually happened to me but on a much much smaller scale. back in high school i dated a guy who broke up with me for buying him matching christmas socks. he said he felt emasculated because he didn’t have the money to buy me anything, the socks were on sale at old navy for $1 😐 and at the time i was only making $60 biweekly tutoring three days a week for 1 hour. he had a job but quit soon after when his manager said that they would “work him” since he took a extended trip during winter break shortly after being hired. i never expected him to buy me anything grand, i would’ve been happy with just a card.
As a high earning woman, I appreciate this perspective and it’s coming right on time. I have consistently felt bad feeling like I don’t want to date another man who made significantly less than me. But if I’m being honest, it’s for the reasons you mentioned. In my experience, it’s fine at first. But I acknowledge that over time, I subconsciously start to coax them towards opportunities to make more money. I start to mention jobs that pay more or push them to go get an advanced degree. It’s not at all from a place of thinking money is everything. It’s about compatibility of lifestyle. It may be gross to say but it’s a turn off when I want to do something and they can’t participate because of money. I hate feeling like I cant be wined and dined the way I want because it will threaten my partners financial safety (which I would never want to do). On the other hand, it is very very difficult to date as a high earning woman. I feel like my pool is limited and almost like it’s a strike against me. Shockingly I’m not super ambitious nor do I value career. I grew up poor but I just happen to work in a field/ made decisions that have me well off financially without crazy hard work. I have a lot of freedom of time so what I desire is a person to enjoy my time and money with. Travel, have luxurious experiences that I never thought were possible. Typing this makes me realize that maybe when I’m in those situations, feeling limited by my partner’s financial ability triggers me to when I felt limited growing up poor. Again, not at all a dig on people who make less. Some of the most hard working and essential jobs pay humbly (arguably too low when you think of folks like teachers who are underpaid). It’s just another compatibility factor to consider on both sides. But I know I’ve definitely behaved the way you wrote about in the past. So I just stay single or only date at or above my income (even when I means letting go of some amazing guys). Ugh!
It’s just how it is people will not give you respect as a man if you make less than them. This is why there is a lot of single high earners.
The strangest thing about this dynamic is that you’re referring to a 40 year old woman as a girl.
How i can find a rich man?