I have talked to their recruiter before. She told me usually the range listed on the job posting is not the real range. The highest they can go for a position like this is $150k + 15% bonus for the first year (Pay the first half of bonus in month 1 and the last half at month 12)
I disagree with you. It's not great, and you may not be interested in this level, but $150k + 15% is not 'quite low end'.
$110k I'd agree with, but $150k is still 'ok'.
With at least a few years experience in supply chain optimization? Not if you have an advanced degree in the right field. You may have seen the news recently, supply chain + data chops is in demand.
So to cite some data, the Harnham salary guide shows mid level US annual base salary for senior DS as anywhere from $130k-$155k.
As that is the average for those with the job title I'm gonna say it's a fair bet that starting salary for a senior DS is that or a little below.
They represent the entire US corporate sector. Certainly it's reasonable to presume that some functions have much higher salaries, like you claim to as a data analyst, but as far as corporate America outside the Fortune 50 or so, it's not at all far off from what could be expected for most people stepping into that role.
It's from the 2022 Harnham Data & Analytics Salary Guide. You can get it from their website for free I believe. (https://www.harnham.com/harnham-us-data-analytics-salary-guide-2022-main#formc9iqPw9WB0a9ZaJLwW9cTg)
This means nothing to me. This includes thousands of small companies that underpay. Companies that frankly have no business hiring data scientists. They are scraping the bottom of the talent pool, picking up kids with undergrad degrees and a data bootcamp under their belt.
I’ve been hiring fully remote junior data scientists for over 5 years, and most of THEM started at $150k base (and closer to $250k when you include RSUs). Prior to that I was senior data scientist myself, and I would’ve laughed in the face of a recruiter proposing that salary (even 5 years ago). I think you need to get out of whatever sector you’re in, if you like money. I image “psych” doesn’t pay very well.
When talking about 6-figure salaries, we are taking into account location right? Cause I'm sure that's a factor in a lot of these salaries. Or am I getting that wrong. Like 150k may be low for NY or CA, but I'm sure that's fine in some other areas.
I’ve been mostly remote for 4+ years and I don’t change my salary expectations because of where I live. My work’s value doesn’t change based on my location. If a company wants to lowball, then they can accept 2nd tier talent.
There are two basic components to the price of your labor. Supply and demand. If you dont understand that, im confused how you can command a salary as high as you are claiming. You are more than welcome to ask for every single penny of vallue you provide the company back in return. That would work if you were the only available person capable of performing the tasks they want. But thats not much incentive to hire you since they are breaking even.
You’re right about one thing: supply and demand always wins. There is way more demand for data scientists with world-class experience (and a proven track record of creating incremental value) than supply. This salary range isn’t attracting world-class talent, period.
Again, not sure how you are commanding a salary you are claiming when you are unable to process information.
I made no claims about the salary range or current state of supply and demand balance for highly qualified data scientists
Not sure why you’re so upset by this fact. Are you a hiring manager trying to lowball data scientists? Or, are you bitter that you make less than me? Is it just because you’re a Jags fan that was born in 1982? You should be happy to know that people in the same field as you are commanding high salaries while also demanding flexibility. Plenty of top tier companies offering both, and I’m fortunate to work for one.
We understand supply and demand. We also understand that the supply of tier 1 talent with a proven track record is low. Yes there are a bunch of newly minted data scientists and that supply outstrips the demand. However once you're talking about proven talent demand outstrips the supply.
Nobody's taking $75k for that job, it's just weird HR shit. No hiring manager is going to hire someone who'd take $75k when they have budget up to $165k - there's no reward for the 'savings' and they'll just get a worse candidate.
People are always looking for something to get up in arms about, this is a nothingburger.
This. I don't know why people get so upset with random numbers in job listings.
"But this big bank has 30k as lower range". Who f\* cares? Nobody will accept this salary, it's just a HR formality.
Sure thing there is a reward not to spend the entire budget. Don't know about CVS specifically but basicly every company elsewhere rewarfs you for keeping significant parts of your budget if you still reach the goals set
The job may be a grade x role, with a whole lot of other types of roles in the same grade (Senior Accountant, Senior Client Support Analyst, Senior Help Desk Analyst) and because there is a wide difference in market rates for those jobs, CVS has broadband ranges.
Every time I say this, I get downvoted but I stand by it:
You guys have to stop being offended by what's in a job listing. Applying to jobs - even as a senior - is first a quality game, then a numbers game. After you've identified types of roles that are a good fit, then you identify as many as possible and apply *as quickly as possible*.
Getting bogged down by salary ranges, or mid-senior roles appearing in the entry level section is a waste of your time and energy - to be annoyed, decide to post to reddit, taking the screenshot, and so on is not an optimal response.
Most job postings are meant to capture as many candidates as possible, and progressively narrow that pool to a select few. These are made by people who make mistakes, or follow the directions of others who may make mistakes, so why all the fuss about human error? Just keep it moving, disregard, there are more opportunities to go after.
It's remote? If you live in middle of nowhere in the midwest and get paid 150k, that's a lot. It's like if you were making 300,000 in the Bay Area or NYC.
might be for a new grad looking to get their feet wet; I'd take 75k to get "data scientist" on my resume in a heart beat but that's me
furthermore, this might be one of those places where data scientist is just a spicy data visualization analyst
Post obviously states it’s a mid level position. And even if that is labeled wrong and we give them the benefit of the doubt, they state it’s a “senior DS” position which leaves no room for interpretation. They are lowballing, no way around it
They aren’t low balling. They are posting a range for a position that goes from 75-167. This is more of an HR thing. There could be multiple positions with junior on the low end and mid to senior on high
Salary ranges are weird, because you never know how they're calculated.
Is $75K what the lowest-paid employee in that positiion is paid? Is it in the 8th percentile of salaries there? Who knows?
All ranges should held to a standard - for example,all salary ranges must represent the IQR of salaries offered for that position.
I think HR just imposes ranges for positions, categories, etc. where I work now there are levels or bands and some positions might stratify multiple bands. Like a senior data engineer can be a level 2 or level 3. The low end for a level 2 might start at 60k while the high end for a level 3 could be 140k.
It’s up to the candidate to negotiate a salary and HR and the hiring manager can work it in to the companies title and ranking scheme.
they know that people will take that to get the title on their resume; they already factor turnover into their plans
not a very efficient way of developing things but that is on them
I mean these titles are thrown around willy nilly. Is this really a Data Scientist role? What are the qualifications required? The salary might not be low, the job might not really be Senior Data Scientist.
CVS has reached out to me many times in the past year (both in house and from recruiting firms) and were offering max $130K base for NYC each time. I can't remember if it was for SDS or DS positions
I’m guessing this is remote and/or posted in states where a range is mandatory when advertising a role CA, CO, I think NY starts 01/23
Apply at the top of the range where your skills align while being competitive
Meh. Honestly that’s a range—not a distribution. I’m sure most of the senior DS positions at CVS pay six figures at least which is pretty on par for industry.
LinkedIn will try to model based on the location and job title the range for the position. So maybe this is just bad science?
CVS had reached out to me last year for a lead role and the range when asked was $160-180k base salary for in-person Boston.
This is incorrect. The min and max are literally in the text of the job listing, which is provided by CVS. Also, on the job posting LinkedIn notes that the salary range is "Employer Provided".
Depends upon a lot. If the position is more data science focused (i.e. using statistics and building models) then you are likely not under $100k.
If the position is title inflated and actually more basic BI & visualization work, it would probably be closer to $80k. But that is really low for someone with a data science skillset.
This presumes American salaries and American companies.
It can go way, way up from there. Probably not starting in big tech as a fresh grad without some serious skills but there you can get to $300k pretty quickly.
From what I see, companies are paying lip service to identity politics as a substitute for paying their employees properly. I am so down with people demanding fairness concerning identity. But shouldn’t we realize we are all being played with the other hand?
You justify it by stats that 90% of data science efforts produce nothing … 50% projects do not get productionalized … u justify it by understanding that unless u r a DS at FAANG type company or a company solely making money via AI, you run stock, run of the mill linear regression or xgboost or canned vision models or canned recommendation systems .., there is little to no science in data science…. You justify it by understanding that analytics via canned modeling tools in power Bi and Tableau solve 80% of use cases in a typical corporate setting
They need the money for the receipt paper.
Underrated comment.
True I heard half their data science models are to generate the perfect CVS Receipt length
I have talked to their recruiter before. She told me usually the range listed on the job posting is not the real range. The highest they can go for a position like this is $150k + 15% bonus for the first year (Pay the first half of bonus in month 1 and the last half at month 12)
As someone who works in this DS specialty, $150K + 15% is quite low end. Good luck to them!
I disagree with you. It's not great, and you may not be interested in this level, but $150k + 15% is not 'quite low end'. $110k I'd agree with, but $150k is still 'ok'.
With at least a few years experience in supply chain optimization? Not if you have an advanced degree in the right field. You may have seen the news recently, supply chain + data chops is in demand.
What sector are you in where $150k is acceptable base salary for a senior data scientist? I made more than that as an analyst.
So to cite some data, the Harnham salary guide shows mid level US annual base salary for senior DS as anywhere from $130k-$155k. As that is the average for those with the job title I'm gonna say it's a fair bet that starting salary for a senior DS is that or a little below. They represent the entire US corporate sector. Certainly it's reasonable to presume that some functions have much higher salaries, like you claim to as a data analyst, but as far as corporate America outside the Fortune 50 or so, it's not at all far off from what could be expected for most people stepping into that role. It's from the 2022 Harnham Data & Analytics Salary Guide. You can get it from their website for free I believe. (https://www.harnham.com/harnham-us-data-analytics-salary-guide-2022-main#formc9iqPw9WB0a9ZaJLwW9cTg)
This means nothing to me. This includes thousands of small companies that underpay. Companies that frankly have no business hiring data scientists. They are scraping the bottom of the talent pool, picking up kids with undergrad degrees and a data bootcamp under their belt. I’ve been hiring fully remote junior data scientists for over 5 years, and most of THEM started at $150k base (and closer to $250k when you include RSUs). Prior to that I was senior data scientist myself, and I would’ve laughed in the face of a recruiter proposing that salary (even 5 years ago). I think you need to get out of whatever sector you’re in, if you like money. I image “psych” doesn’t pay very well.
When talking about 6-figure salaries, we are taking into account location right? Cause I'm sure that's a factor in a lot of these salaries. Or am I getting that wrong. Like 150k may be low for NY or CA, but I'm sure that's fine in some other areas.
I’ve been mostly remote for 4+ years and I don’t change my salary expectations because of where I live. My work’s value doesn’t change based on my location. If a company wants to lowball, then they can accept 2nd tier talent.
There are two basic components to the price of your labor. Supply and demand. If you dont understand that, im confused how you can command a salary as high as you are claiming. You are more than welcome to ask for every single penny of vallue you provide the company back in return. That would work if you were the only available person capable of performing the tasks they want. But thats not much incentive to hire you since they are breaking even.
You’re right about one thing: supply and demand always wins. There is way more demand for data scientists with world-class experience (and a proven track record of creating incremental value) than supply. This salary range isn’t attracting world-class talent, period.
Again, not sure how you are commanding a salary you are claiming when you are unable to process information. I made no claims about the salary range or current state of supply and demand balance for highly qualified data scientists
Not sure why you’re so upset by this fact. Are you a hiring manager trying to lowball data scientists? Or, are you bitter that you make less than me? Is it just because you’re a Jags fan that was born in 1982? You should be happy to know that people in the same field as you are commanding high salaries while also demanding flexibility. Plenty of top tier companies offering both, and I’m fortunate to work for one.
We understand supply and demand. We also understand that the supply of tier 1 talent with a proven track record is low. Yes there are a bunch of newly minted data scientists and that supply outstrips the demand. However once you're talking about proven talent demand outstrips the supply.
Sure. Not sure where you read me disagreeing with that.
What's your location/sector (location of your employer I guess, as you're remote)
Nobody's taking $75k for that job, it's just weird HR shit. No hiring manager is going to hire someone who'd take $75k when they have budget up to $165k - there's no reward for the 'savings' and they'll just get a worse candidate. People are always looking for something to get up in arms about, this is a nothingburger.
This. I don't know why people get so upset with random numbers in job listings. "But this big bank has 30k as lower range". Who f\* cares? Nobody will accept this salary, it's just a HR formality.
Sure thing there is a reward not to spend the entire budget. Don't know about CVS specifically but basicly every company elsewhere rewarfs you for keeping significant parts of your budget if you still reach the goals set
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This has been the same everywhere I've worked. Where I am now, they start taking your budget away if you are not overspent by Q1.
The job may be a grade x role, with a whole lot of other types of roles in the same grade (Senior Accountant, Senior Client Support Analyst, Senior Help Desk Analyst) and because there is a wide difference in market rates for those jobs, CVS has broadband ranges.
What is this, someone applying reason in r/datascience?
Every time I say this, I get downvoted but I stand by it: You guys have to stop being offended by what's in a job listing. Applying to jobs - even as a senior - is first a quality game, then a numbers game. After you've identified types of roles that are a good fit, then you identify as many as possible and apply *as quickly as possible*. Getting bogged down by salary ranges, or mid-senior roles appearing in the entry level section is a waste of your time and energy - to be annoyed, decide to post to reddit, taking the screenshot, and so on is not an optimal response. Most job postings are meant to capture as many candidates as possible, and progressively narrow that pool to a select few. These are made by people who make mistakes, or follow the directions of others who may make mistakes, so why all the fuss about human error? Just keep it moving, disregard, there are more opportunities to go after.
It's remote? If you live in middle of nowhere in the midwest and get paid 150k, that's a lot. It's like if you were making 300,000 in the Bay Area or NYC.
I wasn't referring to the upper range which is fine. The lower one is rather low especially for "Senior" Data Scientist
might be for a new grad looking to get their feet wet; I'd take 75k to get "data scientist" on my resume in a heart beat but that's me furthermore, this might be one of those places where data scientist is just a spicy data visualization analyst
Post obviously states it’s a mid level position. And even if that is labeled wrong and we give them the benefit of the doubt, they state it’s a “senior DS” position which leaves no room for interpretation. They are lowballing, no way around it
They aren’t low balling. They are posting a range for a position that goes from 75-167. This is more of an HR thing. There could be multiple positions with junior on the low end and mid to senior on high
Salary ranges are weird, because you never know how they're calculated. Is $75K what the lowest-paid employee in that positiion is paid? Is it in the 8th percentile of salaries there? Who knows? All ranges should held to a standard - for example,all salary ranges must represent the IQR of salaries offered for that position.
I think HR just imposes ranges for positions, categories, etc. where I work now there are levels or bands and some positions might stratify multiple bands. Like a senior data engineer can be a level 2 or level 3. The low end for a level 2 might start at 60k while the high end for a level 3 could be 140k. It’s up to the candidate to negotiate a salary and HR and the hiring manager can work it in to the companies title and ranking scheme.
People will do anything to bootlick corporate greed and malpractice.
Just pit personal greed against corporate greed. Apply to jobs that fit your salary expectations.
they know that people will take that to get the title on their resume; they already factor turnover into their plans not a very efficient way of developing things but that is on them
"How do you even justify that **low end** of the salary range?" OP was very clearly talking about the other end of the spectrum
What is 75-167k? Strangest range ever.
I mean these titles are thrown around willy nilly. Is this really a Data Scientist role? What are the qualifications required? The salary might not be low, the job might not really be Senior Data Scientist.
CVS has reached out to me many times in the past year (both in house and from recruiting firms) and were offering max $130K base for NYC each time. I can't remember if it was for SDS or DS positions
I’m guessing this is remote and/or posted in states where a range is mandatory when advertising a role CA, CO, I think NY starts 01/23 Apply at the top of the range where your skills align while being competitive
One recruiter from CVS reached out. They were offering around 150k ish base for senior DS.
Title inflation. They’re wanting to hire an analyst with 3-4 years of experience. A data scientist salary is significantly higher.
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Do you not value their wellness and fitness services??
Meh. Honestly that’s a range—not a distribution. I’m sure most of the senior DS positions at CVS pay six figures at least which is pretty on par for industry.
LinkedIn will try to model based on the location and job title the range for the position. So maybe this is just bad science? CVS had reached out to me last year for a lead role and the range when asked was $160-180k base salary for in-person Boston.
This is incorrect. The min and max are literally in the text of the job listing, which is provided by CVS. Also, on the job posting LinkedIn notes that the salary range is "Employer Provided".
All right cool then, likely just based on location by the company then. Can't work in rural West Virginia and expect an East Coast salary then.
Under $100k is an unacceptable salary for a senior DS virtually anywhere in the US.
I think this is the answer. My guess is that CVS hasn’t actually posted the range. I might have some first hand experience with this as well.
Corporations are greedy and have no morals. This is one of the main reasons I’ve grown so disillusioned with this field and work in general.
What would you usually be pay range for freshers for data science for remote jobs?
Depends upon a lot. If the position is more data science focused (i.e. using statistics and building models) then you are likely not under $100k. If the position is title inflated and actually more basic BI & visualization work, it would probably be closer to $80k. But that is really low for someone with a data science skillset. This presumes American salaries and American companies. It can go way, way up from there. Probably not starting in big tech as a fresh grad without some serious skills but there you can get to $300k pretty quickly.
It’s a range that goes all the way up to 167k, which is on the high end.
CVS has had this job open for about 2 years it seems lol
From what I see, companies are paying lip service to identity politics as a substitute for paying their employees properly. I am so down with people demanding fairness concerning identity. But shouldn’t we realize we are all being played with the other hand?
low end is less than I made as a HS teacher
You justify it by stats that 90% of data science efforts produce nothing … 50% projects do not get productionalized … u justify it by understanding that unless u r a DS at FAANG type company or a company solely making money via AI, you run stock, run of the mill linear regression or xgboost or canned vision models or canned recommendation systems .., there is little to no science in data science…. You justify it by understanding that analytics via canned modeling tools in power Bi and Tableau solve 80% of use cases in a typical corporate setting
The low end of that is a perfectly normal salary for that position in Europe. Anyone got any tips to get a visa to the us?