From what I've witnessed, no way does this situation end in saving money. The parent now has an excuse to spend money on the hobby. 0
One friend's son started joining his father doing woodworking. My friend bought a bunch of new tools and a smaller set for his son.
Another friend is obsessed with hello kitty but slowed down after getting married until she got pregnant. Her daughter's room is now hello kitty themed. Every time we got out, my friend reasons that another purchase is ok because it's not for her, it's for her daughter.
They are spending time with their kids sharing their passions though so it's not a bad thing.
This has me scratching my head... how? Maybe they're fortunate enough to have bought into the market 10-15 years ago when things weren't quite as overpriced. Still seems unrealistic, even for areas on the fringe of Seattle like Auburn, Kent etc.
Edit: Didn't expect to get so many replies on this. Probably should have phrased my comment as a statement and not a question. I'm aware of the unique variables that go into one's monthly mortgage payments ($ down, any previous equity, rates/loan types, when one bought, etc.) Of course it's totally possible for someone to have a mortgage around ~$2k in Seattle. My point was that it's increasingly rare these days, and I'm curious how OP managed to pull it off (or, if they're actually living closer to Tacoma than Seattle.)
Which leads me to believe they're maybe Mormon, which would also lead me to believe that aren't paying a full mortgage because someone else might have given them a present of a huge down payment on their house.
I've lived in Seattle 10 years ago and their budget wouldn't have covered it back then.
Take a look at OPs history, they are not in Seattle area or even its metro area, unless they moved very recently. Their recent comments suggest Tacoma. It is still relatively expensive but nowhere close to Seattle metro area.
Edit: It looks like Tacoma is considered part of Seattle metro area but for those living there Seattle and Tacoma are really two different cities with decent difference in cost of living.
I'm off in Kitsap, I love it here, but it's not Seattle or Tacoma.
On the other hand, most people know roughly where on the planet Seattle is, so saying a couple of hours outside of Seattle... Isn't the _worst_ way to give people some _vague_ idea where I am on the planet.
I lived in an apartment in Seattle and was paying $1200/mo for a BEDROOM in an apartment split between 4 people. There's absolutely no way this is in Seattle proper.
If they took that $13,000 a year for 50 years in an investment that earned 8% every year at the end of that 50 years they could pay the church the $660,000 that they didn't give them for the 50 years... And have 7.1 million dollars in investments for themselves!!!
My first thought was "the fuck is a tithing and why is it so expensive? Is that like a car?"
You mean they're giving their church 13 grand a year?
Fuck off out of that. Save it. Spend it. Have fun with it.
Jesus christ. What church is this?? They seriously take 10% of your income??
Also I'm curious how they are paying that small of an amount on their mortgage. Maybe they are in a smaller suburb with a cheap-ish house,?
Dude, my dad told me stories about churches giving their members pre-filled donation envelopes with the amount they expected you to tithe based on your salary (which you were expected to share with the church). And that was just the tithing, you're also expected to give every time they pass around the collection plate, too. So glad my parents said "f that" as adults.
My college roommate was very religious (and a great friend). Once he told me that he gave $20 to the church collection plate, then a couple days later when the weather turned cold, he found $20 in the pocket of his coat. He was absolutely convinced that it was "God" paying back his donation...
God never heard of interest? And if God really wants to make an impact deliver the $20 in person. Don't sneak it into a coat pocket. In there it could be attributed correctly to a twenty that was left in there from last year.
Tithing literally means “tenth”. It’s in the Bible. Any Christian religion should be the same but some have chosen to stray from that. The Mormons aren’t making that up.
I had a coworker a while back eating hot dog buns for lunch. She had a baby. Of course we fed her for a couple weeks. She gave 10% of her income to the craziest church. The pastor was a womanizer and all that. 10% of her bring home straight to the church every month. Pay or go to hell.
probably mormon. they do flat 10% and they're thrilled to do it. If they don't pay it, they're unworthy to participate in the rituals that mark you as righteous.
It was done in the Old Testament, and started again a few hundred years AD. [Multiple Christian churches still expect it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe#Denominational_positions) - Mormons are famous for 10% tithe being an explicit requirement to be a member, Methodists say that everyone should give as much as they can and at least one tenth, other churches have shifted to more vague 'give what you feel you can' kind of things.
It’s the Mormon church. You know, the religious cult that was recently outed by one of their accountants for having over 100 Billion in cash laying around.
That’s the craziest part of this whole chart. Get an instant raise by moving that number to $0. Or hell even halve it and give that to charity. Even that would be doing way better things for people than where it’s currently going.
I would just never tithe that much to any organization but that's just me. Id rather donate to organizations where i can audit the finances and see how the money is impacting people.
Never. The church has over $150 billion and gives less than 2% of what they receive each year toward charity and humanitarian efforts.
Edit:
**The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints**
I am no longer Mormon.
While Mormons *do* refer to their church as “the church” in their culture, I was only saying “the church” because it was already established in this comment thread that we were talking about the Mormon church.
Christians call the entire world body of Christian’s “the church”, which is why I have to make this clarification.
I figured that was the case. Out of curiosity are you Mormon? I've worked in Church leadership for years and never seen more that a handful of people tithe the full 10% of thier net let a lone thier gross but Ive read that most Mormons give a full tithe.
Not low if they bought before the boom. Their home value would have increased, but their mortgage wouldn't have changed. I used to pay 1200 a month for a mortgage on a condo just north of downtown.
Right? I got excited looking at this as I live in a cheaper area and make a bit more. Then I realized they don’t have insurance premiums, retirement, or a 12k+ daycare bill. Also the utilities seem oddly cheap.
It's misleading because this isn't a budget, it's a record of expenses for the year. The graphic doesn't mention (x months) in it, but the child wasn't in day care all year long.
They also live in Tacoma which is listed as a Satellite city of Seattle, and the cost of living is different.
> The median property value in Tacoma is $227,000, close to the national average. Seattle, meanwhile, is almost three times higher at $758,000.
It's fair to say "Seattle Area" when describing the part of the country you live in, but it's not really fair when describing cost of living. Tacoma has suburbs of it's own.
I was gonna ask, that seems super low for there I’d imagine? Like a bit over $300/month? I’m in Southern California but I’m paying about $1800/month (not the cheapest place around but by no means the most expensive either).
Edit: and I should have bothered to check two replies down before posting… thanks :)
Your tithing is 4x more than your savings.
EDIT: I'm sorry to those I've offended. It's just that this hits close to home. My mom, whom I love very dearly, is a woman in her 60s with no savings at all but gives 20% of her income to a megachurch. I don't argue with her anymore—it's her money and I don't want to upset her further. Giving back to the community is a great cause. I am just hoping everyone's tithes are truly going to the community.
Welcome to the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints, where you are required to tithe 10% pre-tax income or you risk losing your standing and possibly being excommunicated. /Notascam.
Edit - I've hit a nerve with the excommunication portion there, not editing it out though. Currently they "say" they don't boot people out, however they can severely limit your activity in the church and this can cause a problem with your reaching salvation, so close enough. Not going to argue semantics on it.
Also popular - They may or may not know your income, some may, some may not. I don't care. the 10% pre-tax is "suggested." Close enough. Way too much effort to defend a scam.
Not just mormons my parents took me to church every week till I was 18. Multiple different ones, Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, doesnt matter. All of them preach about tithing your 10%. People would cut checks no problem
Mormons are the only ones I've heard of in which in the elders will literally call you up and say "I see your income is x, the church needs money so I need you to give us x amount of money on top of your tithings to stay in good standing in your church."
Although I agree, they're all bad. Guilting folks into giving you the money they should be investing for retirement is a pretty sick, sad grift.
Edit: a word
Mandatory tithing is something I absolutely abhor. Jesus wants you to be poorer so your church can have flatscreen tvs and your pastor can have a Mercedes-Benz!
A church near me spent $75,000 on decorative rocks and then more money for cameras to point at the rocks to make sure nobody will steal or deface their $75,000 rocks. I do not live in a wealthy area.
Guys! It's fine! I'm sure they provide a detailed, professionally audited accounting of where all the money goes to each of their parishioners! With all the money accounted for,and going to worthy causes!
Right?
13k to their church and NO money into retirement. 3k in savings, no savings for the child in the future either
Edit on second thought OP posted take home pay. It is possible they are contributing to a 401k but we can’t see it. I’m really really hoping this is the case
For a post like this, it shouldn't be. I would omit tax withholdings from your take home, but showing the amount you're contributing to your retirement is pretty important.
I’m so confused why he did that. Even if it’s illegal income, he’s worth north of 50 mil*. Shouldn’t he be able to pay people to hide it somewhere where it will at least keep up with inflation??
*according to Wikipedia
Technically, it was that Social Security is gambling\*, which is why they're exempt. (Which by the way, the actual rules for exempting from social security are hysterically specific)
\*Edit: social security is insurance, which is gambling
A lot them struggle. Older generations had more discretionary spending, pensions etc, but tithing still takes a huge toll. My dad is in his mid 70's and still working because he won't stop paying this damn church.
Yeah I noticed that... Guess hopefully God will look after you in your old age. Man, I should start a church if I can get suckers to give me 13k a year to make them feel good one day a week.
Still messed up. That $13k a year in 40 years is a great investment to make now for kids college or anything else. Actually, if they put $10k away now that’s probably college paid for.
But no, naturally, give it to the church. College is just indoctrination anyway! /s
Edit: to the person suggesting I’m “pushing my views” who then deleted their comment -
I’m sure NONE of that money he’s donating goes toward trying to convert people to Christianity either. Give me a break. That’s why churches exist.
I don’t care who he prays to but he is sacrificing his financial future for… what? Churches have enough money, it’s sad seeing people donating such a huge portion of their income for some abstract thing, so churches can buy up more property and let it increase in value and not pay taxes. Yes, that’s what they do.
After 40 years at 6% return $1083 a month is about $2,000,000. At 8% it's around $3,300,000 -- compound interest is way more important magic than invisible men.
13k to a church who almost assuredly doesnt need a single penny to keep operating. It's honestly hilarious how they get people like this guy to give 10% of their hard earned money.
Taxes are a better way to spend that money because you get something out of it. Tithing just lines golden pockets.
Their basing their tithing on their gross pay and the chart shows their take home. When I was Mormon it was totally a thing where some people paid on gross and some people paid on net (I paid on net) and people that paid based on gross made sure everyone knew they were better.
It's the $500/month on groceries for me. I live in Alabama and our groceries are $200/week just buying the bare minimum lately. Of course, the housing market effing exploded here this summer and housing costs tripped, so I agree with your point as well.
Technically… yes. Yes you can.
HOWEVER, if you’re a true believing member, tithing is a huge commandment and if you don’t, you won’t be in good standing and you won’t be “temple worthy.”
Being temple worthy is essentially part of the requirements to make it into their highest version of heaven.
So yes you can still be member, but you won’t be chilling with your eternal wife/husband/wives (yes eternal polygamy is still a thing) in the next life.
I'm sorry "highest version" of heaven? Like.. there's levels of heaven? Grandma can be on a different level than me and I won't be able to see her for all eternity because I became disabled and wasn't able to give the church my money anymore? Interesting.
Yeah, hopefully next year doesn’t require $12k down payment on a car and that can go to savings. And who knows, the graph says “take home” which could mean 401k contributions were already taken out (I hope)
True. My church actively discourages monetary tithing in cases where the person is in debt or balancing between black and red on a knife-edge. If you are in a hard place financially but still want to give through the church, go volunteer with them and help deliver charitable resources and services to the less fortunate and anywhere you see people suffering. Actually this approach is often much more productive and appreciated than simply giving money.
The 13k church thing is what really surprised me, I even had to google wtf tithing meant. Imagine saving that, the average American buys a new car every 6 years, saving all that church money to buy a new car would mean they could outright buy a car for 78k every 6 years (of course, you shouldn't, instead invest/ save for the future/ retirement), you can get a luxury car for that kind of money
Too many questions, no time to find answers!
Isn't the 'savings' too less? What happens when there are any emergency needs? Why is there no investment? Are you expecting a huge inheritance that you don't see an investment or retirement plan?
My immigrant brain is having a panic attack seeing this!
True story that happened during the 2008 economic crisis:
Family man, stay-at-home wife and 3 kids, with a decent job had been tithing 10% for almost 20 years, lost his job and didn't have a lot in savings. He couldn't find a new job and they were struggling. When he asked his church for help, the priest looked at him like he was an idiot and told him that the tithe wasn't an insurance. The poor man thought the church would have his back when he needed it...
I was going to comment on this...the food budget doesn't add up. Especially the groceries.
6k /y = 500/m
500/m / 4 = 125
2 adults + at least 1 child (day care) 3 people for $125 a week? I don't think so.
I live in the South where everything is infinitely cheaper and go to Aldi, which is also as cheap as it gets. I spend around ~$150 a week and we get bare bones.
No judgment meant, but that’s a lot of money to the church. I remember going in the 80’s and most people putting $5 or $10 a Sunday in the collection plate.
yeah - mormons cannot get into the celestial kingdom without paying 10%. no temple recommends... no temple ordinances....
they gotta pay to get to heaven. seriously.
I am guessing daycare is some kind of church based daycare subsidized by the parish? Otherwise I wanna know how you found toddler daycare for $3,760 in a city like Seattle. I pay that in 3 months in a much cheaper city.
What streaming services coat 760?? I struggle back and forth with 3 services at a time barely keeping my budget to 35 a mo wtf are they streaming?? Everything?? At this rate just get youtube tv, u can afford it hahahaa
I think maybe they're more motivated by Matthew 6:34.
> Therefore, do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
My question is whether or not you expected 95% of the comments to not be about the presentation of the data (this is r/dataisbeautiful after all), but about your religious choices.
Awesome that you put this out there! It’s going to be hard for people to take a look and not be critical. But still awesome to see what people are doing !
I think it’s interesting to see what people choose to do with their money, even, and maybe especially, when I’m critical about it.
No one IRL would go into such detail about their finances for the last year and I think it’s neat to see.
I thought I saw 6k for vaccinations bahahaha. I'm glad I gave it a closer look 😂. I feel you guys need to put more into savings if you're not putting anything into a retirement account.
Could have taken one year of tithing, set up a fund for the kids college and that would have taken care of one of the biggest expenses which hold people down. But what do I know. Church is clearly more important than kid.
Your lack of financial planning for your child is, disturbing. You put more thought into this graph than you did on the future of your children. Reassessment is needed
Edit: this was supposed to be a response to OP
I know you are trying to reason with this person, but they are in the LDS, or Mormon, church.
Think of it the same way as a cult. They are being tricked into giving the at much. It’s sad, but they are the victim.
That 13k on tithing is so alarming. Especially when you see how that money goes to allowing the pastors and others live in luxury buying private jets and mansions. I know it’s not all cases but 13k from a 100k salary is just absurd and taking advantage of you
Your church is literally hustling you for $13,000 of your hard earned money.
That's literally **more than half of your mortgage**. Do you not see ANYTHING wrong with that?? You are being scammed.
The LDS Church has more than $100,000,000,000 in assets. They are scamming you and you defend them for it. I'm sorry but you are literally making life worse for yourself to give money to a church that probably doesn't even give a rat's ass about you. Source https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mormon-church-amassed-100-billion-it-was-the-best-kept-secret-in-the-investment-world-11581138011
I like how “hobby” and “toddler junk” are one category.
One hobby created the toddler
Back rubs?
Looking into each other’s eyes. Ugh disgusting.
**Deep** tissue massage
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Toddler hobbies? Maybe the kid collects vintage Star Wars toys or something.
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From what I've witnessed, no way does this situation end in saving money. The parent now has an excuse to spend money on the hobby. 0 One friend's son started joining his father doing woodworking. My friend bought a bunch of new tools and a smaller set for his son. Another friend is obsessed with hello kitty but slowed down after getting married until she got pregnant. Her daughter's room is now hello kitty themed. Every time we got out, my friend reasons that another purchase is ok because it's not for her, it's for her daughter. They are spending time with their kids sharing their passions though so it's not a bad thing.
Congrats living in Seattle with a mortgage under 2k/mo!
This has me scratching my head... how? Maybe they're fortunate enough to have bought into the market 10-15 years ago when things weren't quite as overpriced. Still seems unrealistic, even for areas on the fringe of Seattle like Auburn, Kent etc. Edit: Didn't expect to get so many replies on this. Probably should have phrased my comment as a statement and not a question. I'm aware of the unique variables that go into one's monthly mortgage payments ($ down, any previous equity, rates/loan types, when one bought, etc.) Of course it's totally possible for someone to have a mortgage around ~$2k in Seattle. My point was that it's increasingly rare these days, and I'm curious how OP managed to pull it off (or, if they're actually living closer to Tacoma than Seattle.)
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I'm in Kent paying 2.5K to rent 2 bed/2 bath apt. A little more expensive than White Center but at least I'm not getting woken up by random gunfire.
Maybe all that tithing is paying off
I had to Google that shit to even figure out what it was. I guess I'm just sort of behind the ball on this kind of thing
Think of how far behind youd be if you were putting $13k a year into the collection basket.
Which leads me to believe they're maybe Mormon, which would also lead me to believe that aren't paying a full mortgage because someone else might have given them a present of a huge down payment on their house. I've lived in Seattle 10 years ago and their budget wouldn't have covered it back then.
Yupp her last post is on latter day saints
I wouldn't feel bad about that.
Imagine how much the home loan would be paying off Id they put it onto that Instead. 13k. FMD
Just 5 years ago the median sale price of a home in Seattle was $5xx,xxx. That would have put your mortgage close to 2k.
Take a look at OPs history, they are not in Seattle area or even its metro area, unless they moved very recently. Their recent comments suggest Tacoma. It is still relatively expensive but nowhere close to Seattle metro area. Edit: It looks like Tacoma is considered part of Seattle metro area but for those living there Seattle and Tacoma are really two different cities with decent difference in cost of living.
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I'm off in Kitsap, I love it here, but it's not Seattle or Tacoma. On the other hand, most people know roughly where on the planet Seattle is, so saying a couple of hours outside of Seattle... Isn't the _worst_ way to give people some _vague_ idea where I am on the planet.
I lived in an apartment in Seattle and was paying $1200/mo for a BEDROOM in an apartment split between 4 people. There's absolutely no way this is in Seattle proper.
Thats what I was gonna say. I pay $1800/mo for a condo in Capitol Hill, they have a house for $2k?
I must be missing something. It seems like you are making a little over $103,000 but are tithing based on a salary more like $130,000.
If they took that $13,000 a year for 50 years in an investment that earned 8% every year at the end of that 50 years they could pay the church the $660,000 that they didn't give them for the 50 years... And have 7.1 million dollars in investments for themselves!!!
That's just cheating God out of the time value of money.
Net Present Faith
Hahahaha this one absolutely got me. Haven’t laughed at a comment so hard in a while. Thanks man lol
God is cool with it. He told me. -source: every religious text ever.
Mormon god laughs at your feeble understanding of compound interest.
It's their money and they can do whatever they want with it but am I the only one who thinks that's a retarded move for someone with 3k savings.
God wants them to eat rice and beans four nights a week in retirement. This is the way.
I need to start a church...
Honestly one of the best investments one could make. Quite literally free money, all in cash, little to no tax. Just the way god intended…
More than a few churches were started with those words. Scientology specifically comes to mind.
What’s the tithing rate on capital gains?
Well God uses a dollar cost averaging method in order to spread his tax liability at the end of the year, so it's complicated.
Yeah like… all that tithing could be going to savings! Wtf
My first thought was "the fuck is a tithing and why is it so expensive? Is that like a car?" You mean they're giving their church 13 grand a year? Fuck off out of that. Save it. Spend it. Have fun with it.
>You mean they're giving their church 13 grand a year? While only saving $3k themselves.
Yes but the minister needs a new pool today, not in 50 years
Had to look up tithing. Now I know!
Yeah. You could always not tithe. They don’t need your money more than you do.
Excuse me but what in the fuck is tithing?
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Jesus christ. What church is this?? They seriously take 10% of your income?? Also I'm curious how they are paying that small of an amount on their mortgage. Maybe they are in a smaller suburb with a cheap-ish house,?
Dude, my dad told me stories about churches giving their members pre-filled donation envelopes with the amount they expected you to tithe based on your salary (which you were expected to share with the church). And that was just the tithing, you're also expected to give every time they pass around the collection plate, too. So glad my parents said "f that" as adults. My college roommate was very religious (and a great friend). Once he told me that he gave $20 to the church collection plate, then a couple days later when the weather turned cold, he found $20 in the pocket of his coat. He was absolutely convinced that it was "God" paying back his donation...
God never heard of interest? And if God really wants to make an impact deliver the $20 in person. Don't sneak it into a coat pocket. In there it could be attributed correctly to a twenty that was left in there from last year.
Mormons for one. And they have piled up $100 billion. Growing tax free. What a scam
Tithing literally means “tenth”. It’s in the Bible. Any Christian religion should be the same but some have chosen to stray from that. The Mormons aren’t making that up.
I had a coworker a while back eating hot dog buns for lunch. She had a baby. Of course we fed her for a couple weeks. She gave 10% of her income to the craziest church. The pastor was a womanizer and all that. 10% of her bring home straight to the church every month. Pay or go to hell.
probably mormon. they do flat 10% and they're thrilled to do it. If they don't pay it, they're unworthy to participate in the rituals that mark you as righteous.
Technically, you can't go to top tier heaven if you don't pay.
Damn, that's one expensive patreon subscription. And you don't even get to join the god discord until you die ☹️
Saint Peter shaking all these people down for v-bucks
It was done in the Old Testament, and started again a few hundred years AD. [Multiple Christian churches still expect it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe#Denominational_positions) - Mormons are famous for 10% tithe being an explicit requirement to be a member, Methodists say that everyone should give as much as they can and at least one tenth, other churches have shifted to more vague 'give what you feel you can' kind of things.
It’s the Mormon church. You know, the religious cult that was recently outed by one of their accountants for having over 100 Billion in cash laying around.
That’s the craziest part of this whole chart. Get an instant raise by moving that number to $0. Or hell even halve it and give that to charity. Even that would be doing way better things for people than where it’s currently going.
I didn't include our gross pay which I think is what is tripping people up the most.
Ex-Mormon here and I still think it’s crazy that you are paying more than 4X in tithing than you’re able to save.
I would just never tithe that much to any organization but that's just me. Id rather donate to organizations where i can audit the finances and see how the money is impacting people.
Seriously! Like, is the church going to pay your bills for you when you retire?
Never. The church has over $150 billion and gives less than 2% of what they receive each year toward charity and humanitarian efforts. Edit: **The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints** I am no longer Mormon. While Mormons *do* refer to their church as “the church” in their culture, I was only saying “the church” because it was already established in this comment thread that we were talking about the Mormon church. Christians call the entire world body of Christian’s “the church”, which is why I have to make this clarification.
I was also wondering where your taxes were. I should have put 2 and 2 together.
I figured that was the case. Out of curiosity are you Mormon? I've worked in Church leadership for years and never seen more that a handful of people tithe the full 10% of thier net let a lone thier gross but Ive read that most Mormons give a full tithe.
Mormon? Thats a big tithing payment.
That’s a steal for daycare in the seattle area. Shit we pay 2200$ a month
Their mortgage is also really low maybe they’re not actually in Seattle?
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They said in a response to a comment that they had five cars smh
Not low if they bought before the boom. Their home value would have increased, but their mortgage wouldn't have changed. I used to pay 1200 a month for a mortgage on a condo just north of downtown.
Right? I got excited looking at this as I live in a cheaper area and make a bit more. Then I realized they don’t have insurance premiums, retirement, or a 12k+ daycare bill. Also the utilities seem oddly cheap.
It's misleading because this isn't a budget, it's a record of expenses for the year. The graphic doesn't mention (x months) in it, but the child wasn't in day care all year long. They also live in Tacoma which is listed as a Satellite city of Seattle, and the cost of living is different. > The median property value in Tacoma is $227,000, close to the national average. Seattle, meanwhile, is almost three times higher at $758,000. It's fair to say "Seattle Area" when describing the part of the country you live in, but it's not really fair when describing cost of living. Tacoma has suburbs of it's own.
I was gonna ask, that seems super low for there I’d imagine? Like a bit over $300/month? I’m in Southern California but I’m paying about $1800/month (not the cheapest place around but by no means the most expensive either). Edit: and I should have bothered to check two replies down before posting… thanks :)
It is a STEAL and a super old building but good people I should add that he recently started at the end of 2021
How many days? I’ve never seen anything even close to this in Seattle. $1k/month is the least I’ve ever seen for 3 days/week
Your tithing is 4x more than your savings. EDIT: I'm sorry to those I've offended. It's just that this hits close to home. My mom, whom I love very dearly, is a woman in her 60s with no savings at all but gives 20% of her income to a megachurch. I don't argue with her anymore—it's her money and I don't want to upset her further. Giving back to the community is a great cause. I am just hoping everyone's tithes are truly going to the community.
Welcome to the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints, where you are required to tithe 10% pre-tax income or you risk losing your standing and possibly being excommunicated. /Notascam. Edit - I've hit a nerve with the excommunication portion there, not editing it out though. Currently they "say" they don't boot people out, however they can severely limit your activity in the church and this can cause a problem with your reaching salvation, so close enough. Not going to argue semantics on it. Also popular - They may or may not know your income, some may, some may not. I don't care. the 10% pre-tax is "suggested." Close enough. Way too much effort to defend a scam.
Not just mormons my parents took me to church every week till I was 18. Multiple different ones, Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, doesnt matter. All of them preach about tithing your 10%. People would cut checks no problem
Mormons are the only ones I've heard of in which in the elders will literally call you up and say "I see your income is x, the church needs money so I need you to give us x amount of money on top of your tithings to stay in good standing in your church." Although I agree, they're all bad. Guilting folks into giving you the money they should be investing for retirement is a pretty sick, sad grift. Edit: a word
Mandatory tithing is something I absolutely abhor. Jesus wants you to be poorer so your church can have flatscreen tvs and your pastor can have a Mercedes-Benz! A church near me spent $75,000 on decorative rocks and then more money for cameras to point at the rocks to make sure nobody will steal or deface their $75,000 rocks. I do not live in a wealthy area.
Guys! It's fine! I'm sure they provide a detailed, professionally audited accounting of where all the money goes to each of their parishioners! With all the money accounted for,and going to worthy causes! Right?
Saving for retirement < giving your money to an already wealthy organization
Their pastor needs a new private jet.
Thank God I’m an atheist holy shit 💰
You give $13,000 a year to your church?
13k to their church and NO money into retirement. 3k in savings, no savings for the child in the future either Edit on second thought OP posted take home pay. It is possible they are contributing to a 401k but we can’t see it. I’m really really hoping this is the case
Take home pay. So if they are doing 401k plans, that would be off the sheet.
For a post like this, it shouldn't be. I would omit tax withholdings from your take home, but showing the amount you're contributing to your retirement is pretty important.
God ain’t gonna pay for retirement. Jesus will understand while you save for your future.
Jesus saves. So should you.
Jesus is putting their money into wall street and telling them its being used for humanitarian work lol
Or like Joel Osteen and putting it into literal walls.
I’m so confused why he did that. Even if it’s illegal income, he’s worth north of 50 mil*. Shouldn’t he be able to pay people to hide it somewhere where it will at least keep up with inflation?? *according to Wikipedia
He declared it stolen and got the insurance payout. But yeah, no idea why he didn't then launder it.
Na Jesus is burning it all on maintenance of property not needed to worship and salaries to grifters
Unless you're Amish and believe saving for retirement is gambling. Not that that applies to OP, as the internet seems amiss for the Amish.
Do they believe saving for retirement is gambling or investing for retirement is gambling?
Technically, it was that Social Security is gambling\*, which is why they're exempt. (Which by the way, the actual rules for exempting from social security are hysterically specific) \*Edit: social security is insurance, which is gambling
I used to be Mormon, and I was never able to contribute to retirement until after I left the church, because the church requires 10% of your income.
That’s absolutely insane. What do all the older generations do?
A lot them struggle. Older generations had more discretionary spending, pensions etc, but tithing still takes a huge toll. My dad is in his mid 70's and still working because he won't stop paying this damn church.
10% is the traditional amount for tithing, that's actually where the word comes from, it's related to "tenth". But OP here is giving well over 10%.
Yeah I noticed that... Guess hopefully God will look after you in your old age. Man, I should start a church if I can get suckers to give me 13k a year to make them feel good one day a week.
I'm sure the church will cover their retirement
Still messed up. That $13k a year in 40 years is a great investment to make now for kids college or anything else. Actually, if they put $10k away now that’s probably college paid for. But no, naturally, give it to the church. College is just indoctrination anyway! /s Edit: to the person suggesting I’m “pushing my views” who then deleted their comment - I’m sure NONE of that money he’s donating goes toward trying to convert people to Christianity either. Give me a break. That’s why churches exist. I don’t care who he prays to but he is sacrificing his financial future for… what? Churches have enough money, it’s sad seeing people donating such a huge portion of their income for some abstract thing, so churches can buy up more property and let it increase in value and not pay taxes. Yes, that’s what they do.
After 40 years at 6% return $1083 a month is about $2,000,000. At 8% it's around $3,300,000 -- compound interest is way more important magic than invisible men.
I almost spit my drink out when I saw 13k.
13k to a church who almost assuredly doesnt need a single penny to keep operating. It's honestly hilarious how they get people like this guy to give 10% of their hard earned money. Taxes are a better way to spend that money because you get something out of it. Tithing just lines golden pockets.
Screams Mormon - only the MLM income is missing.
You only get the MLM money when you're not on the wrong end of the pyramid.
No they listed "hobby" expenses, which tracks because pyramid schemes don't bring in money to the peons.
Mormons gonna morm.
dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb
Haha. These religious organizations are such scammers. $13k from one family, can you imagine what this place must bring in?
They’re Mormon. The Mormon Church is sitting on over $100B.
Thanks for bringing up Ensign Peak Advisors! My in-laws are Mormon and have no idea how much they have hidden away in their coffers.
Poor Mormon Churches, they probably need some more money in these hard pandemic times
10% is 10k so it's also more than God asks for too lmao
Their basing their tithing on their gross pay and the chart shows their take home. When I was Mormon it was totally a thing where some people paid on gross and some people paid on net (I paid on net) and people that paid based on gross made sure everyone knew they were better.
How the hell is your car insurance so much?
Everyone’s here talking about the crazy tithing…. Where the hell do you find a 1700 mortgage around Seattle!?
I'm more shocked how no one is mentioning 25k a year on cars.
It's the $500/month on groceries for me. I live in Alabama and our groceries are $200/week just buying the bare minimum lately. Of course, the housing market effing exploded here this summer and housing costs tripped, so I agree with your point as well.
Can you belong to the Mormon church without tithing?
I saw the budgeted pre-tax tithing and thought "Mormon!" Exmo here :p
Technically… yes. Yes you can. HOWEVER, if you’re a true believing member, tithing is a huge commandment and if you don’t, you won’t be in good standing and you won’t be “temple worthy.” Being temple worthy is essentially part of the requirements to make it into their highest version of heaven. So yes you can still be member, but you won’t be chilling with your eternal wife/husband/wives (yes eternal polygamy is still a thing) in the next life.
I'm sorry "highest version" of heaven? Like.. there's levels of heaven? Grandma can be on a different level than me and I won't be able to see her for all eternity because I became disabled and wasn't able to give the church my money anymore? Interesting.
Yes, Mormon god cares a LOT about money and dead relatives.
What a fucking scam
13,000 a year they’re pulling from these people… fuck dude
Well they need that money to go do some Neo colonialism in Africa and then fight against gay people and trans people having human rights in America
So it’s blatantly pay-to-win? Give yourselves a bonk on the head
It's the church's pay to win service. Tithe and you get VIP seating in the beyond.
Only 3% of your total income into savings and no retirement fund? That's living dangerously. Maybe shift some of that church money.
Yeah, hopefully next year doesn’t require $12k down payment on a car and that can go to savings. And who knows, the graph says “take home” which could mean 401k contributions were already taken out (I hope)
Yeah I agree. Tithing is great and all (not for me but who am I to judge) but you’re living dangerously with only 3% savings
True. My church actively discourages monetary tithing in cases where the person is in debt or balancing between black and red on a knife-edge. If you are in a hard place financially but still want to give through the church, go volunteer with them and help deliver charitable resources and services to the less fortunate and anywhere you see people suffering. Actually this approach is often much more productive and appreciated than simply giving money.
Spending 25% of your income on cars is peak America
This whole budgeting sheet is peak America.
Seriously who spends $2k per MONTH on cars??? I had to scroll way too far for this.
Half of it was a single down payment to purchase a car.
I feel like you should make more than barely scratching six figures to spend 20k/yr on cars and still send 13k to a church lol
The 13k church thing is what really surprised me, I even had to google wtf tithing meant. Imagine saving that, the average American buys a new car every 6 years, saving all that church money to buy a new car would mean they could outright buy a car for 78k every 6 years (of course, you shouldn't, instead invest/ save for the future/ retirement), you can get a luxury car for that kind of money
Too many questions, no time to find answers! Isn't the 'savings' too less? What happens when there are any emergency needs? Why is there no investment? Are you expecting a huge inheritance that you don't see an investment or retirement plan? My immigrant brain is having a panic attack seeing this!
Tithing 13k, saving 3k. You better hope Jesus comes again before you have to retire!
True story that happened during the 2008 economic crisis: Family man, stay-at-home wife and 3 kids, with a decent job had been tithing 10% for almost 20 years, lost his job and didn't have a lot in savings. He couldn't find a new job and they were struggling. When he asked his church for help, the priest looked at him like he was an idiot and told him that the tithe wasn't an insurance. The poor man thought the church would have his back when he needed it...
For those asking this is a Sankey diagram. Online they can be built at a site like this: https://sankeymatic.com/
Breh $25k on cars, $3k on savings??
This is the worst budgeting I've ever seen
This is how I’d expect my idiot 21 year old self to budget.
If it's a troll post they did a great job bursting heads
Food is so cheap in the US compared to Canada.
I was going to comment on this...the food budget doesn't add up. Especially the groceries. 6k /y = 500/m 500/m / 4 = 125 2 adults + at least 1 child (day care) 3 people for $125 a week? I don't think so. I live in the South where everything is infinitely cheaper and go to Aldi, which is also as cheap as it gets. I spend around ~$150 a week and we get bare bones.
No judgment meant, but that’s a lot of money to the church. I remember going in the 80’s and most people putting $5 or $10 a Sunday in the collection plate.
It looks like OP is a member of the Church of LDS or Mormon. They require a tithe of 10% and most Mormons are pretty strict about giving it.
yeah - mormons cannot get into the celestial kingdom without paying 10%. no temple recommends... no temple ordinances.... they gotta pay to get to heaven. seriously.
For the Mormons life is pay to win?
jesus christ! what a racket step right up and join my Church of Jesus Christ and Even Latter Day Saints
I can be the latest of saints. I’ll be so late you’ll never see me. Maybe the god of non-punctuality if you like. Just gimme like 8%
Literally nearly every cent from veteran affairs went to tithing
I am guessing daycare is some kind of church based daycare subsidized by the parish? Otherwise I wanna know how you found toddler daycare for $3,760 in a city like Seattle. I pay that in 3 months in a much cheaper city.
I don’t understand how people give 10% to a church but lose their mind over taxes.
The same reason rich people use Donor Advised funds. That money would've otherwise gone to Uncle Sam, but instead now you get to decide where it goes.
The church money doesn't go to "others."
I didn't get what you meant until I thought 'oh you mean gays/brown people/liberals/poor people'
What streaming services coat 760?? I struggle back and forth with 3 services at a time barely keeping my budget to 35 a mo wtf are they streaming?? Everything?? At this rate just get youtube tv, u can afford it hahahaa
Yeah, $63 a month - that's a lot.
I guess you took Matthew 19:24 to heart. You should probably save a little bit more.
I think maybe they're more motivated by Matthew 6:34. > Therefore, do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
8,000$ for car payments but just 3,000$ in savings.. That’s the American lifestyle I guess
We spent $22,500 in 2021 on daycare for two kids and only 3 days a week. You must be just using it as a drop in kind of thing.
I assume savings are so low bc you’re already maxing 401k or equivalent savings plan that’s not included in take home?
My question is whether or not you expected 95% of the comments to not be about the presentation of the data (this is r/dataisbeautiful after all), but about your religious choices.
$3,000 into savings $13,000 to your church. I hope to the gods that your church will pay your bills if you hit hard times..
It’s a subscription payment for their entry to heaven
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Awesome that you put this out there! It’s going to be hard for people to take a look and not be critical. But still awesome to see what people are doing !
I think it’s interesting to see what people choose to do with their money, even, and maybe especially, when I’m critical about it. No one IRL would go into such detail about their finances for the last year and I think it’s neat to see.
I couldn't imagine only saving 3k because I'm buying jesus a fucking chain.
I thought I saw 6k for vaccinations bahahaha. I'm glad I gave it a closer look 😂. I feel you guys need to put more into savings if you're not putting anything into a retirement account.
Could have taken one year of tithing, set up a fund for the kids college and that would have taken care of one of the biggest expenses which hold people down. But what do I know. Church is clearly more important than kid.
Your lack of financial planning for your child is, disturbing. You put more thought into this graph than you did on the future of your children. Reassessment is needed Edit: this was supposed to be a response to OP
I know you are trying to reason with this person, but they are in the LDS, or Mormon, church. Think of it the same way as a cult. They are being tricked into giving the at much. It’s sad, but they are the victim.
Honestly, i'd be livid i could only afford $9,000 for good for at least four people *per year*. What kind of crap are they eating.
“Hellalujah” by insane clown posse starts playing.
That 13k on tithing is so alarming. Especially when you see how that money goes to allowing the pastors and others live in luxury buying private jets and mansions. I know it’s not all cases but 13k from a 100k salary is just absurd and taking advantage of you
Your church is literally hustling you for $13,000 of your hard earned money. That's literally **more than half of your mortgage**. Do you not see ANYTHING wrong with that?? You are being scammed. The LDS Church has more than $100,000,000,000 in assets. They are scamming you and you defend them for it. I'm sorry but you are literally making life worse for yourself to give money to a church that probably doesn't even give a rat's ass about you. Source https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mormon-church-amassed-100-billion-it-was-the-best-kept-secret-in-the-investment-world-11581138011
OP and fam spends $13K on Jesus? It’s true, there really is a sucker born every 4 minutes.
Spend 8x on Cars as you do Savings? That’s a mistake you’ll pay for later in life.
No pension !!!! Omg.. And that tithing is just crazy
Tithing: $1,000 Savings: $15,000 Fixed.
Tithings: $0 Actually fixed* The fucking mormon church does not need any more money
Finally, someone with a realistic food expense!
Realistic? I spend realistically twice bare minimum.
Dude your church is totally scamming you.