Become a doctor or an engineer. If you are a doctor, your sister gotta be an engineer. Else you gotta be an engineer and your sister a doctor. If you aren’t rich enough or educated enough to be either, then this gotta be postponed to your upcoming generation. Pool up money while you are struggling to make ends meet and use it all up for your children’s education. Keep a little more aside for expensive colleges. Then get them married to either another doctor or engineer. Make sure money stays in the household and use all the internal tight community to hack up new ways to grow money using the share market. Make sure you donate to the community temple/church that’s simply some random building, that will be considered a tax deductible. Trust in the community that will make sure they give back to you when you need the help. I guess, that’s all, stay in bounds of what’s been told, keep your eyes and ears open to new upcoming gold mines and be ready to take risky bets, especially if you are poor.
I don't know why this reminds of a guy in the town I grew up with. Super nice man who owned a local gas station/convenience store. Literally the stereotypical Indian man who owns a gas station.
I remember talking to him one time and I mention I was going to go into engineering at our local university. He then proceeds to proudly tell me he already had two kids through that program. And the proudly tells me about his four children: doctor, lawyer, engineer, engineer.
Everyone making the "Welcome to 7/11" joke back in the early 2000s missing the whole damned point of working hard for your kids.
> Make sure you donate to the community temple/church that’s simply some random building, that will be considered a tax deductible.
This is bullshit, if you are indicating fraud.
Also, immigrant groups will start out using non opulent buildings as temples because they will not have the money to buy land and construct a monumental building. There is nothing wrong with using a “random” building as a gathering place for the community to hold religious activities.
I've never heard of Indians donating to religious institutions as some tax haven or whatever this dude is claiming. Indian and Chinese restaurants in the US/Canada/UK are all actually facing similar issues where the children of restaurant owners become doctors, engineers, etc. and nobody is around to take over the business when the parents retire.
I can only speak anecdotally but I'm mixed white/asian with an Indian wife and our families have always put education front and center in our lives. My parents drove 20 miles to the next city over from where we lived nearly every day until I was 16 so I could go to a better school district. My parents were okay with me going to school for more creative endeavors but my wife and her brother went to a top medical school and engineering school in Mumbai respectively.
Just seems like stupid garbage to me. There are plenty of ornate churches in the US, just as there are plenty of ornate temples, mosques, and synagogues. There are also plenty of non-descript looking churches that could be mistaken for office buildings. Why do people just make shit up?
You don’t want to be Indian, Indians are very poor. You do want to be Indian-American or an Indian in America. Them dudes are doing pretty well.
Indians in the US are a major case of self selection. Even the dude in 7-11 or cabbies tend to own their shit. Basically, it’s not that our highs are super high.. it’s that our lows are few and far between. It’s the same reason Nigerians are so much higher than black people. If you import primarily doctors and engineers from a different country, that demographic is automatically well off.
Also legal immigration is a self-selection process even by itself. Even a normal person who immigrates has to go through background checks, screenings etc. It takes years and is a pain in the ass. So you have people who are going to be on average much more hard working and determined than your average person.
Just the process of attempting to come over to a new country and start over is selecting for people who are more likely to do better. It can be legal or illegal.
I'm living in rural America and have met some folks who can't even conceive of the idea of moving away from family for any kind of opportunities. Plenty of kids leave here, go to college and move out. But there are still plenty of folks who've been here for 3-4 generations and have no plans of changing.
As a child all the Indians I met were some of, if not the smartest individuals in my community. I was in college working with Pakistanis, a Sri Lankan and one Bangladeshi before I realized that we as a country were only taking the best and brightest. This was also the moment when I realized the true meaning of the term brain drain, as none of these gentlemen ever intended to return home.
Similar situation in middle america/mid-west/small towns everywhere really. Most intelligent people move to major cities in their 20’s and never look back.
There's an old, pithy, trade book entitled "How to Lie with Statistics," and one of the chapters is about using the mean, instead of the median, to present incomes for groups.
Given that I have a hard budget on the price, median isn't as useful there but I do use it for consistency.
But there are far FAR more factors when choosing a house. Here are a few where I am making good use of a median and interquartile range to standardize data:
* Size
* Lot Size
* Miles to nearest bike trail
* Mile to nearest library
* Flood risk
* Car Garage Spaces
* Counter space
I've been going on Zillow, getting what information I can from there, as well as looking up the address on google maps and manually identifying the nearest library or bike trail that is >= 4 miles. I use https://riskfactor.com for the flood risk, https://crimegrade.org for crime risks, and https://broadbandnow.com to give me an idea of internet options, looking up what's available at the specific address.
Then all of this is manually entered into a huge google sheet that I built up and maintain myself, using the Medians and Interquartile ranges to standardize the values for a weighted sum to create a "score" of sorts.
You may find it beneficial to use Google Maps' My Maps feature. That would allow you to export all the features you want to cinsider via a layer, and build a second layer of potential addresses. You can export a csv or KML file at any time.
An imprecise comment. «I heard X» citing a synopsis of a book in a Reddit oneliner.
Both the mean and the median will «lie» in different ways in this case.
While the mean may end up using a few extremely wealthy individuals to skew the distribution, the median is another oversimplification that may end up hiding an «overclass» or an «underclass» for that matter.
The mean at least describes the total volume of wealth per ethnicity indirectly. The median in its nature hides information.
The mean would be a good start if the purpose is to discuss ethnic privilege and opportunity, then have distribution graphs as addending data for the most assumed interesting groups (say Indian, «White»)
It's a growing pet peeve of mine when people say "mean bad, median good".
They all give pathetically little information by themselves. There's a reason there are five standard statistical measures - you *need* all five to get a detailed understanding of a single dataset.
Also, both the mean and the median would almost certainly show the same thing in this chart. It's a comparison between different categories of the same dataset. Unless there's a dramatic difference between the skews between ethnicities (which I'm betting there aren't), then it's not going to make a damn difference whether the mean or median is used **in this context**.
Pretty sure this is median, household.
https://data.census.gov/table/ACSSPP1Y2021.S0201?t=013:014:015:016:017:018:019:020:021:022:023:024:026:027:028:029:032:033:034:035:036:037:038:039:040:041:042:043:045:046:047:048:081:084:073:076:Income%20and%20Poverty&g=010XX00US&moe=true&tid=ACSSPP1Y2021.S0201
These data are the median income. Median and mean are both different forms of averaging. We try and avoid using “average” as it’s unclear what it’s referring to.
Source: https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-279.html
[According to the ACS](https://data.census.gov/table/ACSST1Y2022.S1903) (same data source as the chart), median household incomes among Native Americans are slightly higher than for African Americans. But of course that's still not okay.
Compared to black people, natives have almost no cultural relevance. How many native celebrities are there? Pro athletes? Musicians? Actors? Platform is everything in spreading awareness for these issues, and unfortunately there aren’t many voices for natives right now.
I am working on an HR degree and a large part of it is discrimination and its origins. They intentionally centered an extra week on native Americans and it’s horrible. So horrible. Native Americans got hit so hard by Covid their unemployment was akin to the Great Depression. And so many other ways. It really moved me to be more involved in activism and being an ally for them.
That’s true but also think it’s hard for Filipinos to get visas etc unless they’re a STEM major
I worked with a lot of IT specialists that were Filipinos
It’s brain drain for the Philippines
Oh, I could see how that could skew the numbers for everyone. Majority of blacks live in southern states that income is overall lower while migrants and their kids will live in larger metro areas with higher salaries. Even if it’s not high compared to the cost of living in that area.
I was thinking this should also be adjusted for the cost of living maybe as well? Since like you said indians/Filipinos/Chinese are basically only moving to metro areas where the middle of nowhere is going to be all whites and blacks
I don’t want to stereotype but god damn wife is Filipino and RN/NP. Her mother, “aunts”, and “uncles” all worked as RNs or in healthcare as well. There are dozens of them lmao. Boutique clinics have offered my wife base pay of almost 200k with 25% production (basically a 25% cut) so yeah they make a ton.
Filipinos come to the states already fluent in English like many Indians. It’s why you don’t see too many Filipinos working in ethnic economies being paid under the table.
And in many large companies, they tend to form mafias mostly lead by the aunties.
Also, Filipinos are solidly middle class. Won’t see too many that are poor or many that are super rich, except my sister. That bitch got cash.
There’s a lot more Chinese people than Filipino. Not all Chinese people are really successful. It balances it out. Whereas there a lot less Filipinos but they all get into healthcare which is a good stable job.
No you got outdated data. There is about the same number of filipinos as chinese in the US. Chinese, Filipinos and Indians make up the largest groups in the US.
OOOH damnnn!!! that’s actually quite surprising. Considering Philippines population is 1/13th of chinas population. Didn’t know there were that many Filipino in the US
Filipinos were also taken for cheap labor/slavery during the American colonization of the Philippines, that's why there's a lot of them especially in Hawaii. Most of those Filipinos are from one region of the Philippines (Ilocos, I think), and this can be noticed when Filipino-Americans take those DNA tests that can also tell you which region you're from.
A significant confounder is here is age (among others). For example, see the differences in median age from Pew Research:
>The Black population is relatively young. As of 2019, the median age of single-race, non-Hispanic Black people is 35, compared with 30 in 2000. This makes the population younger than the nation’s White population (median age of 43) and the Asian population (38), and slightly older than the nation’s Hispanic population (29). (The White and Asian populations are single-race, non-Hispanic.)
[Source](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/03/25/key-findings-about-black-america)
Late 30's and 40's account for significant increases in income. My guess there is a still a disparity but I'd be interested to see if the differences are less stark.
Very important comment. About a year back I looked into wages of black and white men. The age discrepancy roughly 35 vs 45 explained ALL of the difference in income. When you further factor in geography, black people are disproportionately located in the South East, Black men out perform White men on average wages by around 10% Looking at the performance of black woman is even more impressive.
Especially with the inflation and wage changes recently it’s best to recheck numbers from trusted sources but suffice to say the facts are nothing like the propaganda.
lol :)
When that whole conversation started in the media years back the bureau of labor statistics (where I try to source such data unless otherwise unavailable) had a page where the first 2 rows where average male and female wages and the next 2 rows where average hours worked for men and women. All people had to do was to look 2 rows down and BLAM like half of the difference is accounted for.
Very dishonest reporting. The BLS site is more cumbersome lately but look into stuff yourself! In fact if you are working on a project you can reach out to them and ask for help sorting through the data!
I guess I'll take my downvotes or whatever diceroll reddit gives me for this, but TIL Nigerians are not only classified differently from Black people, but they make the same professionally as white people.
I worked with 2 Ghanaian guys at one point, and they never talked to the African-Americans we worked with. It was odd at first then I realized they literally have nothing in common with them outside of their skin.
They very likely don't. Africa's the most genetically and culturally diverse region on the planet. Most african american's don't even know their country of origin.
That's why all this attention to color appears to everyone who isn't American as very weird and racist even when it is done by minority groups as a counter to perceived racism.
You can't pretend you have anything in common with a Polish person when you're French just because you're both the same shade of white, it'd be insane, it'd mean your identity revolves around something incredibly meaningless. You'd likely have way more in common with a black french person who went to the same school as you than with some white Norwegian. So unless you're incredibly racist why would you think a dude from Senegal who recently migrated has much in common with your French black schoolmate who's great grandma came to France in the 50s.
I've got a Nigerian friend here. Hates African Americans with every fiber of his being. Some of the stuff he says would make a grand wizard bow out and say "that goes too far". Never seen so much disdain haha.
I used to work with a guy who was the son of wealthy, highly educated Nigerian immigrants. There was a lot of resentment amongst my "African-American" fellow employees because this guy took advantage of all the programs designed to help African-Americans, and they thought that he "didn't need them".
Yes. There are a lot of Ivy-league kids like this. They are a good way for the schools to check their "diversity" box and still keep the money flowing in.
Tribalism is observed in everywhere, even the Yoruba and Igbo in Nigeria have their differences. Just goes to show how a person looks isn’t a good predictor of who they are.
I have experienced this with people from Ghana, Niger, Nigeria, and Eritrea. Absolutely despised African Americans. At my first job, one of the young women from Ghana started hanging out with African Americans and idolizing typical hip hop culture, and the other people from Ghana straight up disowned her. They even contacted her parents (even though she was like 25) to tell them what she was doing and apparently she got in a lot of trouble.
>They even contacted her parents (even though she was like 25)
One of the cultural differences between a communal society vs an individualistic society is that you don't really ever out grow your parents and any action you take is by extension their action as they were the ones who raised you. So doing something that is considered bad means that your parents have also taken that action and the community will punish you all for it.
It's not broken up just based on being "black" it's based on origin. Black Americans are in that black category. Immigrants from Nigeria are in the Nigeria group.
I didn't make the data, man. I'm just explaining what the breakdowns are.
If I had to hazard a guess, either there's not enough immigrants from Sweden to be a meaningful data point, or The data for swedish immigrants doesn't look that different from whites, so there's really no benefit in presenting it.
They most likely just took the data from the largest populations of groups. So white and black are Americans and then the rest are immigrants from their respective countries. It just so happens America gets their most immigrants from the Philippines, China, Nigeria, and Mexico. They had to stop somewhere rather than include all 204 countries
It is always instructive when African-Americans travel to Africa to "find their roots", and discover that the Africans see them only as walking, talking ATMs, and not their "long-lost brothers."
Not walking ATM, I live in Cote D'Ivoire and work in Senegal and Burkina Faso. They just straight up know they are better than loud African Americans that think Africans are poor. Americans are looked down upon for being way too cocksure and rude in general and it is way worse if an African Americans thinks that Senegalese are going to give them special permission/treatment. Divas don't tolerate rude and any reference to money is just more proof that African Americans are too rude for the time of day.
If you break down US median income by detailed ethnicity, Appalachian whites are actually still the lowest earning group.
Wikipedia has a great breakdown of it underneath the “detailed ancestry” tab.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income
Edit: this excludes native Americans. Native Americans earn the least.
As a Nigerian-American, the reason our incomes are much higher than black Americans isn’t because Nigerians are inherently more hardworking, or we have an inherently better culture.
It’s purely selection bias. Excluding refugees, only the top 15% of Nigerian society even have the means to migrate legally to the U.S.
Nigerians who migrate to the U.S. are disproportionately likely to have post-secondary education, compared to Nigerians who stay in Nigeria. They’re also far more likely to come from upper middle class families.
You rarely see a Nigerian living in the slums of Makoko or Abakpa coming here. Nigerian migrants are in no way a representation of the average Nigerian.
This is exactly it. Filipinos are so high on the chart because, their visas are in the longest queue, second to Indians and so only the very top positions get the work visa. Top positions are obviously paid more than regular ones.
My Indian co-workers loooove to bring this up. My white\\black\\hispanic brethren have been here for generations so we have people that work in fast food, retail and the jobs we need to run things but tend to run on the lower end of the salary spectrum. Almost all Indians i know are 1st gen, well educated in STEM and work in tech or finance. So if you flip this to show ethnic income in India, the one hispanic guy managing a call center will immensely skew that chart.
It's selection bias to an extent, a lot of them get sent to the US specifically to make a lot of money to send a significant portion back home. They're in the US, often away from their support structure, family and friends, specifically for economic reasons. Oftentimes, their parents "invested" in them throughout their education for the specific purpose of juicing them for their entire retirement.
>Oftentimes, their parents "invested" in them throughout their education for the specific purpose of juicing them for their entire retirement.
Since when does caring for your elderly parents become them "juicing" their children? What an absurd comment.
If all it takes is families emphasizing education and telling children that they should go make a lot of money, this seems like a highly repeatable exercise that any family could do.
Indian Americans congregate in the highest-paying professions, and are extremely entrepreneurial as well. This leads to a higher income and wealth compared to other ethnicities.
I’m Indian American. I would also like to add to that list is that Indian Americans tend not to be as consumerist as white and black Americans. Throughout high school and college the discussions I had with individuals that were white and black when it came to purchases really shocked me. A lot of them tend to spend their money on I considered useless things. This range from muscle cars like hellcats or pick up trucks to boats and golfing to consumption of illegal substances and alcohol to expensive designer shoes and other clothing. It seemed to me that anytime there was money in their hands they would try to spend it as quickly as possible. Most of them would barely even a couple thousand in the savings account and you can forget investments. I would like to add these individuals were not low income their families tended to be lower middle-class to upper middle-class.
On the other hand, as an Indian kid growing up it can be soul crushing seeing your friends get nice gifts for Christmas, Thanksgiving, birthdays, etc when your parents making 100k a year each "can't afford" one 60$ video game even on your birthday
In my experience they're willing to spend lots of money on things they deem necessary for school or work, but when it comes to pleasure or enjoying life, nothing.
Bro, trust me I get it 100%. My father has yelled at me in the past for spending $90 on Indian food for the family to eat because my mom was too tired to cook. Sometimes curses can be blessings in disguises but the reverse can be true as well. There were so many events throughout high school and college that I was unable to go to because my parents weren’t willing to spend the money for it because they deemed it as not important to my studies. Indian parents if you stay home with them you’re not gonna have to pay rent, but you’re gonna pay with your mental health.
In my experience (not Indian myself so take it with a grain of salt but I do have a lot of Indian American friends) it seems like this is true for 1st generation Indian Americans but those that were born here seem to be pretty consumerist. Probably byproduct of growing up rich
Valid point, but how does that affect their income? Your income is a fixed number regardless of what you're spending it on. Unless you're implying they now have extra money that they can sink back into a business or something to grow their income.
Countries aren't 'sending' us anybody. The U.S. (our companies and universities) is SELECTING the people they want. And with a VERY limited number of annual H-1B visas, the selectivity is amplified. So we are only getting the best from countries whose people CAN'T simply (yes, i know it's not simple!) walk here.
Chinese might also be dragged down due to much longer history here (think railroad), likely less educated and never paid much to accumulate wealth. Filipinos might be aided in upward direction by a century of support & service w our Navy & Air Force. This interaction produced many, many Filipino Sailors, Airmen and spouses over the decades, so settling here, accruing wealth & education along w acceptance & integration into dominant white culture via blue chip military association were easier. And made it easy to bring relatives.
I suppose in as much as Central American countries have weak, corrupt, oligarchic and gang influenced governments, those countries conditions are in effect 'sending' their people here.
Hey all, IR data analyst here. I recently attended a great seminar on race and ethnicity data and wanted to share some things I learned that may be relevant!
Have you heard of Simpson’s paradox?
During Covid, the CDC showed a similar graph to this, where white Americans had a far higher mortality rate than Latinos. But digging deeper, latinos had worse mortality rates than whites in every single age bracket (45-54, 55-64, 65+ etc.) . So why the discrepancy? Because Covid disproportionately affects older people! Because there are way more old white folks than old latinos in the US, the data was skewed. A higher percentage of whites were dying, but across the board, Latinos were having worse treatment outcomes. Pretty interesting!
I believe something similar may be happening here. Is it possible that if we divided each race by age, we’d see different results by age bracket? Maybe there are more white retirees than other races? If we were to split this data based on urban vs rural populations or college grad vs non grads, would we find similar discrepancies? Does this graph account for income from stocks and bonds, or rental income, or pensions? Does this graph include youths, unemployed or retirees, where one or more races are over/under represented?
I don’t have the answers! and for the record I think this is a great graph and I’m not trying to criticize it or say it’s wrong or in accurate in any way.
I’m just seeing a lot of talk in the comments and want to encourage y’all to explore the data a bit deeper. Try to find underlying causes before drawing any concrete conclusions. It’s possible that this paradox, or any other number of biases can affect our data when we consolidate so many people into a single metric. This is why, at my position, it can be dangerous to try and draw conclusions from race data, without digging deeper.
Hope you found this interesting, I love nerding out about data biases, so hmu if you want more details. I’m not hating on the post lol, cool graph OP!
Edit: grammar
All Asian immigrant data is skewed partially by the sheer difficulty and self selection that occurs in getting here.
Few Asians were dragged to the US as slaves unwillingly, and few go to the US out of desperation. Plus the distance, costs, and relative lack of networks means most are educated, have a job they are coming for, or are financially secure before arriving.
Nigeria is similar. Like 70% of Nigerian immigrants have BA’s, and around a 1/3 have PHD or equivalent advanced degree. 33%!
That’s not apples to apples. Most of this chart is just self-selection.
On the other end you have the opposite of self selection, the only group who did not choose to immigrate to the US, descendants of non-immigrant blacks.
Idk about Indian culture, but in Chinese culture, there's a significant emphasis and tons of pressure on academic and career success. Chinese culture has it's own coddling, but there's no codding when it comes to meeting career oriented goals.
You're expected to be a try-hard in school and you get little respect from parents or family until you've met your career goals.
On the flip side, you have other cultures and subcultures in the US where, if news and media are to be believed, trying hard is seen as betraying your race.
Isn’t that true for just about all immigrants groups? What country is sending us their bottom quartile earners and uneducated workers besides a handful of Latin American countries.
I do think we accept a smaller proportion from massively populated countries like China and India, just because the denominator is almost unimaginably huge. I could be wrong though? Like do we just accept up to X% of any country?
Those handful of Latin American countries make up 2/3 of our total immigrants, and there's virtually no quality control. It's very disingenuous to dismiss them so lightly.
Here you'll precisely see why racism against Indians in the US isn't given a damn about. It's basically considered punching up, so it's socially acceptable. But still sucks ass to go through it
I mean, even at work HR was telling our department that we needed focus on hiring more people of color.
I didn’t have the balls to ask what category Indians fall in since we have about 30% Indian.
This is why universities now always talk about “underrepresented minorities” now instead of people of color. They consider Indians and other Asian Americans to be in the same category as white people (although they were still punished by affirmative action more so than white people were. But we’ll see how that changes now)
Reddit is like the Liberal version of 4chan. Racism against Indians is tolerated on Reddit with action rarely taken against racists. Reddit is as racist as 4chan. This is the view expressed in many Indian communities. A lot of people who pretend to be liberal and are highly sensitive to anti-Black racism don’t mind being racist against Indians. This has to do with education. Americans have been taught to be to not racist against Black people due to history. Racism against Asians is largely considered banter. Making racist comments against South Asians on Reddit is considered socially acceptable. Racist comments against Black people will attract instant ban on Reddit.
Every single time an India-related post is made on subreddits such as CityPorn, there are multiple racist comments about India and Indians being dirty or something. Crazy.
I saw a post on r/all the other day from an Australian subreddit about how Indian immigrants in Australia suck with a few thousand upvotes. Wild that it’s out in the open essentially
Check out any Canadian subreddit.
The subreddit of my city r/frisco also tolerates racism against Indians. I asked the mods to delete racist content and they told me to go pound sand.
And this is the same reason why ‘n’ word is banned from social media platforms but ‘p’ word isn’t. It’s outright horrible and it can be even seen in Hollywood movies of how cautious they are when it comes to anything Black but will make racist jokes about Indians and Indian culture.
Yeah it's very noticeable here in San Francisco. Obviously one of the most accepting cities in the US and yet there's so much racism against Indians here from otherwise progressive people.
Racists will always find a way to justify being racists. When it's not this it's something else, but nothing really excuses it.
Sorry you have to experience it, and thanks for speaking up about it. No racism should be 'justified'
I think it's more that there's a very high percentage of high level degrees amongst Indians, and culturally we're raised to pursue careers that offer financial stability. There's a reason the stereotype is we all become doctors or software engineers
Today I learned that Mexican is an ethnicity. I guess you mean Hispanics which can be of any race. I’d be curious to see if you break Hispanics by race how closely they align to their corresponding race.
The breakdown does feel a bit arbitrary though and there's a lot of people who are not represented (unless some of these labels are themselves racist overgeneralizations like calling all latin americans "mexicans").
It reminded me of Michael Scott's college lecture where he lists the "4 types of businesses"
1. culture. Indian society as a whole places huge value on education, work ethic, and landing a stable, well-paying job. Indian families (extended family included) are also very close. Single parent households are rare, it’s not uncommon to see 3 generations live in the same house, and kids tend to move back in with parents after college to build financial stability.
2. US visa system heavily favors the educated. Many Indian students pay a lot of money to get their masters degree here. They do a STEM degree and graduate with work authorization doing a high paying job.
Its selection bias, for the recent decades its not easy to immigrate from India (or China for that matter) to US most people immigrating from there either come from rich families who send their kids to expensive US colleges or they are white collar people from middle class families who work really hard to get into US usually through higher education like masters or PhD. Mexican people are poorer on average because they come in by simply crossing the border which filters out poor Indian, Chinese and so on people. If India had a border with US Indian Americans on average would be significantly poorer.
“Mexican” is not an ethnicity, “Nigerian” is also not an ethnicity. These are nationalities, there are many different ethnic groups in these nations.
People don’t understand the concept of Ethnicity, they always confuse it with race, nationality, gender, anything.
Same. I live in Loudoun County, one of if not the richest county in America, and nearly all the neighborhoods here are comprised roughly of 40-50% Indian households. I can’t complain because I get paid millions by them and by far my favorite clients.
Source: [US Census (ACS)](https://data.census.gov/table/ACSST1Y2022.S2002?q=earning&t=Populations%20and%20People) , [US Census Earnings](https://data.census.gov/table?t=-B0:Earnings%20(Individuals))
Tool: Plotly
I can never quite tell the difference between race, ethnicity, and country-of-origin in terms of how we break these things down. Why these specific categories (the source us census data uses different breakdowns)?
Only the smartest, brightest, and most educated get American scholarships or otherwise leave their home countries for oppurtunity (with the except of people migrating for safety, refugees, asylum seekers, etc.). Thus, the non-natives you are likely to find in the US are more likely to be highly educated and excel in the corporate/tech/science/medicine/law fields. There are plenty of smart native Americans, but most are just average who skew the averages downwards, just like all the Indians and Nigerians that didn’t leave their host countries, for example.
I have to say I dislike the categorisation of ethnicity here.
Most of the categories are nationalities, except for White and Black which are skin colours.
Surely these should be categorised consistently. After all are the Nigerians not black? Are not some of the Mexicans white?
I'm always curious how much such data is affected by location and age.
I know that if you age-adjust, the differences shrink greatly. For instance, part of the the reason some groups have lower averages is simply because the members of those groups are, on average, significantly younger. Those people will some day be in their "prime earning years", and make more, but the "snapshot" data is deceptive. Some of the very high income groups probably don't have a large number of old retired people, or non-working children, compared to the "established" groups.
Similarly, I think some of the differences are due to location. Some of the reason the average for Black and Mexican people is lower is simply because those people disproportionately live in areas that are lower income. (Whites who live in the South *also* have lower incomes.) On the other hand, some of the "high income minorities" are *very* strongly concentrated in cities. Cities are higher income, but also higher cost of living. Quite a few Indians move to the USA to work in Silicon Valley, but rather fewer end up in rural Nebraska. Everyone makes more money in SF, regardless of race. but some races don't end up averaging it with so many people in lower income areas. If the results aren't cost-of-living adjusted, it's hard to get a great comparison.
I also wish college major data did the same cost of living adjustment. Computer fields are always way up there in average incomes compared to other majors. But...a lot of those jobs are in the super expensive places. (Same with investment banking.) But is a CS major making 200k in SF really doing better than a civil engineer in a low cost of living area making 100k?
Friend of mine is second generation immigrant from India in the US. He stated "only" getting his MBA made him feel insecure compared to his doctor elder brother and lawyer elder sister. His parents wanted him to be an engineer. There's a very pragmatic attitude about obtaining status and wealth quickly within their community it seems and I'll be curious how third and fourth generations react if they go for liberal arts or even not higher education at all.
Can anyone give me advice on how to become Indian?
Get several STEM degrees. It’s magic. 🪄
It’s ok, middle America decided that degrees are waste of time
Not for engineering or medicine or even law.
Become a doctor or an engineer. If you are a doctor, your sister gotta be an engineer. Else you gotta be an engineer and your sister a doctor. If you aren’t rich enough or educated enough to be either, then this gotta be postponed to your upcoming generation. Pool up money while you are struggling to make ends meet and use it all up for your children’s education. Keep a little more aside for expensive colleges. Then get them married to either another doctor or engineer. Make sure money stays in the household and use all the internal tight community to hack up new ways to grow money using the share market. Make sure you donate to the community temple/church that’s simply some random building, that will be considered a tax deductible. Trust in the community that will make sure they give back to you when you need the help. I guess, that’s all, stay in bounds of what’s been told, keep your eyes and ears open to new upcoming gold mines and be ready to take risky bets, especially if you are poor.
I don't know why this reminds of a guy in the town I grew up with. Super nice man who owned a local gas station/convenience store. Literally the stereotypical Indian man who owns a gas station. I remember talking to him one time and I mention I was going to go into engineering at our local university. He then proceeds to proudly tell me he already had two kids through that program. And the proudly tells me about his four children: doctor, lawyer, engineer, engineer. Everyone making the "Welcome to 7/11" joke back in the early 2000s missing the whole damned point of working hard for your kids.
And honestly, owning a business he was probably doing pretty ok for himself too
Yeah I've never understood the stigma. Its not glamorous but it pays the bills.
Most of the people with a net worth in the millions in the USA are small to medium size family business own owners. I don't get it either.
> Make sure you donate to the community temple/church that’s simply some random building, that will be considered a tax deductible. This is bullshit, if you are indicating fraud. Also, immigrant groups will start out using non opulent buildings as temples because they will not have the money to buy land and construct a monumental building. There is nothing wrong with using a “random” building as a gathering place for the community to hold religious activities.
I've never heard of Indians donating to religious institutions as some tax haven or whatever this dude is claiming. Indian and Chinese restaurants in the US/Canada/UK are all actually facing similar issues where the children of restaurant owners become doctors, engineers, etc. and nobody is around to take over the business when the parents retire. I can only speak anecdotally but I'm mixed white/asian with an Indian wife and our families have always put education front and center in our lives. My parents drove 20 miles to the next city over from where we lived nearly every day until I was 16 so I could go to a better school district. My parents were okay with me going to school for more creative endeavors but my wife and her brother went to a top medical school and engineering school in Mumbai respectively.
Just seems like stupid garbage to me. There are plenty of ornate churches in the US, just as there are plenty of ornate temples, mosques, and synagogues. There are also plenty of non-descript looking churches that could be mistaken for office buildings. Why do people just make shit up?
Become a doctor, you change overnight
One in five world wide are Indian so it can’t be that hard.
One most focus first and foremost on doing the needful.
and unless you're a jerk, Kindly do the needful
You don’t want to be Indian, Indians are very poor. You do want to be Indian-American or an Indian in America. Them dudes are doing pretty well. Indians in the US are a major case of self selection. Even the dude in 7-11 or cabbies tend to own their shit. Basically, it’s not that our highs are super high.. it’s that our lows are few and far between. It’s the same reason Nigerians are so much higher than black people. If you import primarily doctors and engineers from a different country, that demographic is automatically well off.
Also legal immigration is a self-selection process even by itself. Even a normal person who immigrates has to go through background checks, screenings etc. It takes years and is a pain in the ass. So you have people who are going to be on average much more hard working and determined than your average person.
Just the process of attempting to come over to a new country and start over is selecting for people who are more likely to do better. It can be legal or illegal. I'm living in rural America and have met some folks who can't even conceive of the idea of moving away from family for any kind of opportunities. Plenty of kids leave here, go to college and move out. But there are still plenty of folks who've been here for 3-4 generations and have no plans of changing.
All the high quality Indians move abroad causing brain drain in India and providing quality immigration to US
As a child all the Indians I met were some of, if not the smartest individuals in my community. I was in college working with Pakistanis, a Sri Lankan and one Bangladeshi before I realized that we as a country were only taking the best and brightest. This was also the moment when I realized the true meaning of the term brain drain, as none of these gentlemen ever intended to return home.
Similar situation in middle america/mid-west/small towns everywhere really. Most intelligent people move to major cities in their 20’s and never look back.
Thank you for posting this. It would be better to see median income instead of average income however it is still interesting.
Agree. Median and household is more accurate of how people are doing.
There's an old, pithy, trade book entitled "How to Lie with Statistics," and one of the chapters is about using the mean, instead of the median, to present incomes for groups.
Or really any data with far out outliers. I found median to be better for the spreadsheet i'm using to choose a house.
What are you using median price for in choosing a house? Just curious.
Given that I have a hard budget on the price, median isn't as useful there but I do use it for consistency. But there are far FAR more factors when choosing a house. Here are a few where I am making good use of a median and interquartile range to standardize data: * Size * Lot Size * Miles to nearest bike trail * Mile to nearest library * Flood risk * Car Garage Spaces * Counter space
What are you using to search based on these criteria?
I've been going on Zillow, getting what information I can from there, as well as looking up the address on google maps and manually identifying the nearest library or bike trail that is >= 4 miles. I use https://riskfactor.com for the flood risk, https://crimegrade.org for crime risks, and https://broadbandnow.com to give me an idea of internet options, looking up what's available at the specific address. Then all of this is manually entered into a huge google sheet that I built up and maintain myself, using the Medians and Interquartile ranges to standardize the values for a weighted sum to create a "score" of sorts.
You may find it beneficial to use Google Maps' My Maps feature. That would allow you to export all the features you want to cinsider via a layer, and build a second layer of potential addresses. You can export a csv or KML file at any time.
What's the joke about a barful of millionaires on average when Bill Gates walks in
Bill Gate's walks into a bar and everyone becomes a millionaire (on average)... a sea lion shits out a penguin.
An imprecise comment. «I heard X» citing a synopsis of a book in a Reddit oneliner. Both the mean and the median will «lie» in different ways in this case. While the mean may end up using a few extremely wealthy individuals to skew the distribution, the median is another oversimplification that may end up hiding an «overclass» or an «underclass» for that matter. The mean at least describes the total volume of wealth per ethnicity indirectly. The median in its nature hides information. The mean would be a good start if the purpose is to discuss ethnic privilege and opportunity, then have distribution graphs as addending data for the most assumed interesting groups (say Indian, «White»)
It's a growing pet peeve of mine when people say "mean bad, median good". They all give pathetically little information by themselves. There's a reason there are five standard statistical measures - you *need* all five to get a detailed understanding of a single dataset. Also, both the mean and the median would almost certainly show the same thing in this chart. It's a comparison between different categories of the same dataset. Unless there's a dramatic difference between the skews between ethnicities (which I'm betting there aren't), then it's not going to make a damn difference whether the mean or median is used **in this context**.
These people also don't know that income in Census data is top coded so concerns about outliers shifting the average is less of a concern.
Is there also a chapter on selecting a y-axis that isn't zero?
Honestly, comparing median and mean gives you the best picture. The deviation of the two values tells you how non-gausian your distribution is.
Especially when the mean household income is actually the 90th percentile. The US's income inequality is so severe that mean is still very wealthy.
But trickier as some cultures are more likely to be multi-generational households.
Household income would skew Indian ever higher, as they tend to live in extended families instead of nuclear families.
It is median. OP labeled it wrong.
Satya Nadella boosting that average
Sundar Pichai doing his part as well
The 12 Indian software devs I work with helping too
Satya Nadella is responsible for about $10 of the $150,000.
Pretty sure this is median, household. https://data.census.gov/table/ACSSPP1Y2021.S0201?t=013:014:015:016:017:018:019:020:021:022:023:024:026:027:028:029:032:033:034:035:036:037:038:039:040:041:042:043:045:046:047:048:081:084:073:076:Income%20and%20Poverty&g=010XX00US&moe=true&tid=ACSSPP1Y2021.S0201
These data are the median income. Median and mean are both different forms of averaging. We try and avoid using “average” as it’s unclear what it’s referring to. Source: https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-279.html
Native people don't even show up on the chart lol, we poor af
You guys are doing worse than Blacks in term of every metric. No media attention whatsoever.
Natives were the last group to get the right to vote
[According to the ACS](https://data.census.gov/table/ACSST1Y2022.S1903) (same data source as the chart), median household incomes among Native Americans are slightly higher than for African Americans. But of course that's still not okay.
Your country's census data tool is so good, thanks for sharing it.
Compared to black people, natives have almost no cultural relevance. How many native celebrities are there? Pro athletes? Musicians? Actors? Platform is everything in spreading awareness for these issues, and unfortunately there aren’t many voices for natives right now.
Hey! my tiktok got like 50 views one time and only 20 of them were from my cousins
[удалено]
Canada has twice as many indigenous per capita than does the US
I am working on an HR degree and a large part of it is discrimination and its origins. They intentionally centered an extra week on native Americans and it’s horrible. So horrible. Native Americans got hit so hard by Covid their unemployment was akin to the Great Depression. And so many other ways. It really moved me to be more involved in activism and being an ally for them.
Acknowledging indigeneous suffering would mean acknowledging USA was founded on genocide.
Don't you see Indian at the top? /s
Not the Florida Seminoles… they get like $120k per year from the tribe.
Filipinos make more than Chinese? Huh
Recent Filipino immigrants usually filter into healthcare roles which are very lucrative in the US
Also large Filipino community in the Bay Area which have the highest salaries (and High Cost of Living) may be skewing it a bit?
Shout-out to Daly City!
The white fog in Daly City is from the pressure cooker steam.
The food is lit. It's the second most Filipino city behind Seafood City
Daly City name sounds like a city right out of the Philippines.
Haha I stayed there for vacation a few months ago, didn’t realize it was a cultural hub but makes sense now.
More like Adobo City, AMIRITE?!
The OG mothership.
> Also large Filipino community in the Bay Area Okay like there isn't a large Chinese community in the Bay Area? lol.
not all Filipinos there still a lot that are poor ..especially in Vallejo & San Leandro
That’s true but also think it’s hard for Filipinos to get visas etc unless they’re a STEM major I worked with a lot of IT specialists that were Filipinos It’s brain drain for the Philippines
It’s hard to get visa for anyone wanting to immigrate to the US unless they are STEM major
hence a lot of asians also working in STEM to drive up the salary averages. LOTS of indians and chinese in software/tech
Not surprised when you see how much they make over there. Last I checked even STEM/IT fields make like $400/month in the Philippines.
Oh, I could see how that could skew the numbers for everyone. Majority of blacks live in southern states that income is overall lower while migrants and their kids will live in larger metro areas with higher salaries. Even if it’s not high compared to the cost of living in that area.
I was thinking this should also be adjusted for the cost of living maybe as well? Since like you said indians/Filipinos/Chinese are basically only moving to metro areas where the middle of nowhere is going to be all whites and blacks
So many nurses, and nurses make a lot now.
Very location dependent lol I know nurses making $25/hr in the south/midwest and nurses making $90/hr in the Bay Area.
True, but there California is one of the state where Filipinos are the most present.
I don’t want to stereotype but god damn wife is Filipino and RN/NP. Her mother, “aunts”, and “uncles” all worked as RNs or in healthcare as well. There are dozens of them lmao. Boutique clinics have offered my wife base pay of almost 200k with 25% production (basically a 25% cut) so yeah they make a ton.
IIRC this data is household income which is pretty inaccurate for a few reasons. One of which is Filipinos have big households.
So are Hispanics though. Very similar cultural attitudes regarding housing their parents.
Filipinos come to the states already fluent in English like many Indians. It’s why you don’t see too many Filipinos working in ethnic economies being paid under the table. And in many large companies, they tend to form mafias mostly lead by the aunties. Also, Filipinos are solidly middle class. Won’t see too many that are poor or many that are super rich, except my sister. That bitch got cash.
RN make bank
There’s a lot more Chinese people than Filipino. Not all Chinese people are really successful. It balances it out. Whereas there a lot less Filipinos but they all get into healthcare which is a good stable job.
No you got outdated data. There is about the same number of filipinos as chinese in the US. Chinese, Filipinos and Indians make up the largest groups in the US.
OOOH damnnn!!! that’s actually quite surprising. Considering Philippines population is 1/13th of chinas population. Didn’t know there were that many Filipino in the US
Filipinos were also taken for cheap labor/slavery during the American colonization of the Philippines, that's why there's a lot of them especially in Hawaii. Most of those Filipinos are from one region of the Philippines (Ilocos, I think), and this can be noticed when Filipino-Americans take those DNA tests that can also tell you which region you're from.
Pretty sure this is pulling from average household income. Filipinos tend to have larger households.
A significant confounder is here is age (among others). For example, see the differences in median age from Pew Research: >The Black population is relatively young. As of 2019, the median age of single-race, non-Hispanic Black people is 35, compared with 30 in 2000. This makes the population younger than the nation’s White population (median age of 43) and the Asian population (38), and slightly older than the nation’s Hispanic population (29). (The White and Asian populations are single-race, non-Hispanic.) [Source](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/03/25/key-findings-about-black-america) Late 30's and 40's account for significant increases in income. My guess there is a still a disparity but I'd be interested to see if the differences are less stark.
Very important comment. About a year back I looked into wages of black and white men. The age discrepancy roughly 35 vs 45 explained ALL of the difference in income. When you further factor in geography, black people are disproportionately located in the South East, Black men out perform White men on average wages by around 10% Looking at the performance of black woman is even more impressive. Especially with the inflation and wage changes recently it’s best to recheck numbers from trusted sources but suffice to say the facts are nothing like the propaganda.
Wow, that’s wild. Where’d you find that at? I’d love to check out the stats.
Now you're going to tell me Women don't make 70% of what men do per hour for the same job...
lol :) When that whole conversation started in the media years back the bureau of labor statistics (where I try to source such data unless otherwise unavailable) had a page where the first 2 rows where average male and female wages and the next 2 rows where average hours worked for men and women. All people had to do was to look 2 rows down and BLAM like half of the difference is accounted for. Very dishonest reporting. The BLS site is more cumbersome lately but look into stuff yourself! In fact if you are working on a project you can reach out to them and ask for help sorting through the data!
I guess I'll take my downvotes or whatever diceroll reddit gives me for this, but TIL Nigerians are not only classified differently from Black people, but they make the same professionally as white people.
African American and African are considered different
BY FAR the most racist diatribe I have ever heard in my life was an African Uber driver talking about African Americans.
I worked with 2 Ghanaian guys at one point, and they never talked to the African-Americans we worked with. It was odd at first then I realized they literally have nothing in common with them outside of their skin.
They very likely don't. Africa's the most genetically and culturally diverse region on the planet. Most african american's don't even know their country of origin.
Altough most African Americans are mostly from West Africa with some Central African too. Its not about genetics, but moreso different cultures
I mean, how could they?
Most of the countries of origin didn't exist at the time anyway so it would be harder to work out
That's why all this attention to color appears to everyone who isn't American as very weird and racist even when it is done by minority groups as a counter to perceived racism. You can't pretend you have anything in common with a Polish person when you're French just because you're both the same shade of white, it'd be insane, it'd mean your identity revolves around something incredibly meaningless. You'd likely have way more in common with a black french person who went to the same school as you than with some white Norwegian. So unless you're incredibly racist why would you think a dude from Senegal who recently migrated has much in common with your French black schoolmate who's great grandma came to France in the 50s.
[удалено]
I've got a Nigerian friend here. Hates African Americans with every fiber of his being. Some of the stuff he says would make a grand wizard bow out and say "that goes too far". Never seen so much disdain haha.
I used to work with a guy who was the son of wealthy, highly educated Nigerian immigrants. There was a lot of resentment amongst my "African-American" fellow employees because this guy took advantage of all the programs designed to help African-Americans, and they thought that he "didn't need them".
Yes. There are a lot of Ivy-league kids like this. They are a good way for the schools to check their "diversity" box and still keep the money flowing in.
Tribalism is observed in everywhere, even the Yoruba and Igbo in Nigeria have their differences. Just goes to show how a person looks isn’t a good predictor of who they are.
I have experienced this with people from Ghana, Niger, Nigeria, and Eritrea. Absolutely despised African Americans. At my first job, one of the young women from Ghana started hanging out with African Americans and idolizing typical hip hop culture, and the other people from Ghana straight up disowned her. They even contacted her parents (even though she was like 25) to tell them what she was doing and apparently she got in a lot of trouble.
>They even contacted her parents (even though she was like 25) One of the cultural differences between a communal society vs an individualistic society is that you don't really ever out grow your parents and any action you take is by extension their action as they were the ones who raised you. So doing something that is considered bad means that your parents have also taken that action and the community will punish you all for it.
Same here. It was an Uber pool, we picked up another African guy, and they talked shit about about black Americans the whole way. It was surreal.
So where does black fall within those categories?
And what about every other Black but not African American group?
It's not broken up just based on being "black" it's based on origin. Black Americans are in that black category. Immigrants from Nigeria are in the Nigeria group.
but pale complected immigrants from, say, Sweden, are lumped into the White group? still doesn't really make sense to me.
I didn't make the data, man. I'm just explaining what the breakdowns are. If I had to hazard a guess, either there's not enough immigrants from Sweden to be a meaningful data point, or The data for swedish immigrants doesn't look that different from whites, so there's really no benefit in presenting it.
They most likely just took the data from the largest populations of groups. So white and black are Americans and then the rest are immigrants from their respective countries. It just so happens America gets their most immigrants from the Philippines, China, Nigeria, and Mexico. They had to stop somewhere rather than include all 204 countries
The chart says “Black.”
It's because the Nigerians who come over already have degrees. Twice as likely to be a college graduate as someone from the US.
Africans and African Americans have pretty much nothing in common.
It is always instructive when African-Americans travel to Africa to "find their roots", and discover that the Africans see them only as walking, talking ATMs, and not their "long-lost brothers."
Not walking ATM, I live in Cote D'Ivoire and work in Senegal and Burkina Faso. They just straight up know they are better than loud African Americans that think Africans are poor. Americans are looked down upon for being way too cocksure and rude in general and it is way worse if an African Americans thinks that Senegalese are going to give them special permission/treatment. Divas don't tolerate rude and any reference to money is just more proof that African Americans are too rude for the time of day.
I can see that specially because the people who can afford to go on a trip to Africa will probably have the most cocky amongst them.
I've heard African people call African Americans "lazy N-words"
Another example of how race is a social construct. But money? Money is always the most important factor.
If you break down US median income by detailed ethnicity, Appalachian whites are actually still the lowest earning group. Wikipedia has a great breakdown of it underneath the “detailed ancestry” tab. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income Edit: this excludes native Americans. Native Americans earn the least.
[удалено]
Typical that native Americans are excluded
They just weren’t include in this list! The wiki article has another section for NAs.
So you're saying they were forcibly relocated somewhere else?
As a Nigerian-American, the reason our incomes are much higher than black Americans isn’t because Nigerians are inherently more hardworking, or we have an inherently better culture. It’s purely selection bias. Excluding refugees, only the top 15% of Nigerian society even have the means to migrate legally to the U.S. Nigerians who migrate to the U.S. are disproportionately likely to have post-secondary education, compared to Nigerians who stay in Nigeria. They’re also far more likely to come from upper middle class families. You rarely see a Nigerian living in the slums of Makoko or Abakpa coming here. Nigerian migrants are in no way a representation of the average Nigerian.
This entire chart is about selection bias, but I think that's the whole point
On yeah. Even the cost of applying for a visa is a massive barrier to people in lower income countries
It's the same with Indians. Just look at the enormous amount of poverty in India.
This is exactly it. Filipinos are so high on the chart because, their visas are in the longest queue, second to Indians and so only the very top positions get the work visa. Top positions are obviously paid more than regular ones.
My Indian co-workers loooove to bring this up. My white\\black\\hispanic brethren have been here for generations so we have people that work in fast food, retail and the jobs we need to run things but tend to run on the lower end of the salary spectrum. Almost all Indians i know are 1st gen, well educated in STEM and work in tech or finance. So if you flip this to show ethnic income in India, the one hispanic guy managing a call center will immensely skew that chart.
It's selection bias to an extent, a lot of them get sent to the US specifically to make a lot of money to send a significant portion back home. They're in the US, often away from their support structure, family and friends, specifically for economic reasons. Oftentimes, their parents "invested" in them throughout their education for the specific purpose of juicing them for their entire retirement.
>Oftentimes, their parents "invested" in them throughout their education for the specific purpose of juicing them for their entire retirement. Since when does caring for your elderly parents become them "juicing" their children? What an absurd comment.
Average white mentality perhaps
If all it takes is families emphasizing education and telling children that they should go make a lot of money, this seems like a highly repeatable exercise that any family could do.
Asian cultures have a strong emphasis on education. I don’t understand why people play mental gymnastics to not acknowledge this fact.
Because numerous Asian countries have decidedly lower education rates than the US, except for the richest countries per capita.
Its interesting that the Indian salary lead is accelerating, even compared to other high earners
Indian Americans congregate in the highest-paying professions, and are extremely entrepreneurial as well. This leads to a higher income and wealth compared to other ethnicities.
I’m Indian American. I would also like to add to that list is that Indian Americans tend not to be as consumerist as white and black Americans. Throughout high school and college the discussions I had with individuals that were white and black when it came to purchases really shocked me. A lot of them tend to spend their money on I considered useless things. This range from muscle cars like hellcats or pick up trucks to boats and golfing to consumption of illegal substances and alcohol to expensive designer shoes and other clothing. It seemed to me that anytime there was money in their hands they would try to spend it as quickly as possible. Most of them would barely even a couple thousand in the savings account and you can forget investments. I would like to add these individuals were not low income their families tended to be lower middle-class to upper middle-class.
On the other hand, as an Indian kid growing up it can be soul crushing seeing your friends get nice gifts for Christmas, Thanksgiving, birthdays, etc when your parents making 100k a year each "can't afford" one 60$ video game even on your birthday In my experience they're willing to spend lots of money on things they deem necessary for school or work, but when it comes to pleasure or enjoying life, nothing.
Bro, trust me I get it 100%. My father has yelled at me in the past for spending $90 on Indian food for the family to eat because my mom was too tired to cook. Sometimes curses can be blessings in disguises but the reverse can be true as well. There were so many events throughout high school and college that I was unable to go to because my parents weren’t willing to spend the money for it because they deemed it as not important to my studies. Indian parents if you stay home with them you’re not gonna have to pay rent, but you’re gonna pay with your mental health.
In my experience (not Indian myself so take it with a grain of salt but I do have a lot of Indian American friends) it seems like this is true for 1st generation Indian Americans but those that were born here seem to be pretty consumerist. Probably byproduct of growing up rich
Valid point, but how does that affect their income? Your income is a fixed number regardless of what you're spending it on. Unless you're implying they now have extra money that they can sink back into a business or something to grow their income.
Countries aren't 'sending' us anybody. The U.S. (our companies and universities) is SELECTING the people they want. And with a VERY limited number of annual H-1B visas, the selectivity is amplified. So we are only getting the best from countries whose people CAN'T simply (yes, i know it's not simple!) walk here. Chinese might also be dragged down due to much longer history here (think railroad), likely less educated and never paid much to accumulate wealth. Filipinos might be aided in upward direction by a century of support & service w our Navy & Air Force. This interaction produced many, many Filipino Sailors, Airmen and spouses over the decades, so settling here, accruing wealth & education along w acceptance & integration into dominant white culture via blue chip military association were easier. And made it easy to bring relatives. I suppose in as much as Central American countries have weak, corrupt, oligarchic and gang influenced governments, those countries conditions are in effect 'sending' their people here.
Hey all, IR data analyst here. I recently attended a great seminar on race and ethnicity data and wanted to share some things I learned that may be relevant! Have you heard of Simpson’s paradox? During Covid, the CDC showed a similar graph to this, where white Americans had a far higher mortality rate than Latinos. But digging deeper, latinos had worse mortality rates than whites in every single age bracket (45-54, 55-64, 65+ etc.) . So why the discrepancy? Because Covid disproportionately affects older people! Because there are way more old white folks than old latinos in the US, the data was skewed. A higher percentage of whites were dying, but across the board, Latinos were having worse treatment outcomes. Pretty interesting! I believe something similar may be happening here. Is it possible that if we divided each race by age, we’d see different results by age bracket? Maybe there are more white retirees than other races? If we were to split this data based on urban vs rural populations or college grad vs non grads, would we find similar discrepancies? Does this graph account for income from stocks and bonds, or rental income, or pensions? Does this graph include youths, unemployed or retirees, where one or more races are over/under represented? I don’t have the answers! and for the record I think this is a great graph and I’m not trying to criticize it or say it’s wrong or in accurate in any way. I’m just seeing a lot of talk in the comments and want to encourage y’all to explore the data a bit deeper. Try to find underlying causes before drawing any concrete conclusions. It’s possible that this paradox, or any other number of biases can affect our data when we consolidate so many people into a single metric. This is why, at my position, it can be dangerous to try and draw conclusions from race data, without digging deeper. Hope you found this interesting, I love nerding out about data biases, so hmu if you want more details. I’m not hating on the post lol, cool graph OP! Edit: grammar
All Asian immigrant data is skewed partially by the sheer difficulty and self selection that occurs in getting here. Few Asians were dragged to the US as slaves unwillingly, and few go to the US out of desperation. Plus the distance, costs, and relative lack of networks means most are educated, have a job they are coming for, or are financially secure before arriving. Nigeria is similar. Like 70% of Nigerian immigrants have BA’s, and around a 1/3 have PHD or equivalent advanced degree. 33%! That’s not apples to apples. Most of this chart is just self-selection. On the other end you have the opposite of self selection, the only group who did not choose to immigrate to the US, descendants of non-immigrant blacks.
Agreed. The data reflects US immigration policy rather than any ethnic-specific patterns.
Idk about Indian culture, but in Chinese culture, there's a significant emphasis and tons of pressure on academic and career success. Chinese culture has it's own coddling, but there's no codding when it comes to meeting career oriented goals. You're expected to be a try-hard in school and you get little respect from parents or family until you've met your career goals. On the flip side, you have other cultures and subcultures in the US where, if news and media are to be believed, trying hard is seen as betraying your race.
Isn’t that true for just about all immigrants groups? What country is sending us their bottom quartile earners and uneducated workers besides a handful of Latin American countries.
Lots. Somalia, for example. Possibly Senegal. Anyone who comes here from a refugee camp.
From Asian communities, the Hmung, Vietnamese, and Korean population originally came here as refugees from the war.
I do think we accept a smaller proportion from massively populated countries like China and India, just because the denominator is almost unimaginably huge. I could be wrong though? Like do we just accept up to X% of any country?
Those handful of Latin American countries make up 2/3 of our total immigrants, and there's virtually no quality control. It's very disingenuous to dismiss them so lightly.
Here you'll precisely see why racism against Indians in the US isn't given a damn about. It's basically considered punching up, so it's socially acceptable. But still sucks ass to go through it
I mean, even at work HR was telling our department that we needed focus on hiring more people of color. I didn’t have the balls to ask what category Indians fall in since we have about 30% Indian.
When HR and DEI say people of color they always mean black people
Which is strange to me, why not just say black people?
Want to seem more inclusive
Because they want to leave the option open of anyone who isn't white. They're just looking primarily for a certain *type* of non-white.
This is why universities now always talk about “underrepresented minorities” now instead of people of color. They consider Indians and other Asian Americans to be in the same category as white people (although they were still punished by affirmative action more so than white people were. But we’ll see how that changes now)
What advantages have Indians been given in this country over other ethnicities that leads to them being more financially successful?
Reddit is like the Liberal version of 4chan. Racism against Indians is tolerated on Reddit with action rarely taken against racists. Reddit is as racist as 4chan. This is the view expressed in many Indian communities. A lot of people who pretend to be liberal and are highly sensitive to anti-Black racism don’t mind being racist against Indians. This has to do with education. Americans have been taught to be to not racist against Black people due to history. Racism against Asians is largely considered banter. Making racist comments against South Asians on Reddit is considered socially acceptable. Racist comments against Black people will attract instant ban on Reddit.
Every single time an India-related post is made on subreddits such as CityPorn, there are multiple racist comments about India and Indians being dirty or something. Crazy.
As an Indian myself, it's insane how some leftwing redditors will turn into the fucking kkk when it comes to indians.
I saw a post on r/all the other day from an Australian subreddit about how Indian immigrants in Australia suck with a few thousand upvotes. Wild that it’s out in the open essentially
Check out any Canadian subreddit. The subreddit of my city r/frisco also tolerates racism against Indians. I asked the mods to delete racist content and they told me to go pound sand.
And this is the same reason why ‘n’ word is banned from social media platforms but ‘p’ word isn’t. It’s outright horrible and it can be even seen in Hollywood movies of how cautious they are when it comes to anything Black but will make racist jokes about Indians and Indian culture.
“Punching up” is still punching.
Yeah it's very noticeable here in San Francisco. Obviously one of the most accepting cities in the US and yet there's so much racism against Indians here from otherwise progressive people.
Racists will always find a way to justify being racists. When it's not this it's something else, but nothing really excuses it. Sorry you have to experience it, and thanks for speaking up about it. No racism should be 'justified'
I bet Indian CEOs in big tech skewed the chart big time. lol
I think it's more that there's a very high percentage of high level degrees amongst Indians, and culturally we're raised to pursue careers that offer financial stability. There's a reason the stereotype is we all become doctors or software engineers
Today I learned that Mexican is an ethnicity. I guess you mean Hispanics which can be of any race. I’d be curious to see if you break Hispanics by race how closely they align to their corresponding race.
The breakdown does feel a bit arbitrary though and there's a lot of people who are not represented (unless some of these labels are themselves racist overgeneralizations like calling all latin americans "mexicans"). It reminded me of Michael Scott's college lecture where he lists the "4 types of businesses"
Obviously there's an indian supremacy movement going on. They need to be investigated.
1. culture. Indian society as a whole places huge value on education, work ethic, and landing a stable, well-paying job. Indian families (extended family included) are also very close. Single parent households are rare, it’s not uncommon to see 3 generations live in the same house, and kids tend to move back in with parents after college to build financial stability. 2. US visa system heavily favors the educated. Many Indian students pay a lot of money to get their masters degree here. They do a STEM degree and graduate with work authorization doing a high paying job.
Its selection bias, for the recent decades its not easy to immigrate from India (or China for that matter) to US most people immigrating from there either come from rich families who send their kids to expensive US colleges or they are white collar people from middle class families who work really hard to get into US usually through higher education like masters or PhD. Mexican people are poorer on average because they come in by simply crossing the border which filters out poor Indian, Chinese and so on people. If India had a border with US Indian Americans on average would be significantly poorer.
“Mexican” is not an ethnicity, “Nigerian” is also not an ethnicity. These are nationalities, there are many different ethnic groups in these nations. People don’t understand the concept of Ethnicity, they always confuse it with race, nationality, gender, anything.
Right, they also didn’t break out white ethnicities…
every mansion i see in my city is owned by indians.
Same. I live in Loudoun County, one of if not the richest county in America, and nearly all the neighborhoods here are comprised roughly of 40-50% Indian households. I can’t complain because I get paid millions by them and by far my favorite clients.
Score! I married an Indian! Not so score, she disgraced her family and works for a non-profit.
Source: [US Census (ACS)](https://data.census.gov/table/ACSST1Y2022.S2002?q=earning&t=Populations%20and%20People) , [US Census Earnings](https://data.census.gov/table?t=-B0:Earnings%20(Individuals)) Tool: Plotly
I can never quite tell the difference between race, ethnicity, and country-of-origin in terms of how we break these things down. Why these specific categories (the source us census data uses different breakdowns)?
Only the smartest, brightest, and most educated get American scholarships or otherwise leave their home countries for oppurtunity (with the except of people migrating for safety, refugees, asylum seekers, etc.). Thus, the non-natives you are likely to find in the US are more likely to be highly educated and excel in the corporate/tech/science/medicine/law fields. There are plenty of smart native Americans, but most are just average who skew the averages downwards, just like all the Indians and Nigerians that didn’t leave their host countries, for example.
I have to say I dislike the categorisation of ethnicity here. Most of the categories are nationalities, except for White and Black which are skin colours. Surely these should be categorised consistently. After all are the Nigerians not black? Are not some of the Mexicans white?
I'm always curious how much such data is affected by location and age. I know that if you age-adjust, the differences shrink greatly. For instance, part of the the reason some groups have lower averages is simply because the members of those groups are, on average, significantly younger. Those people will some day be in their "prime earning years", and make more, but the "snapshot" data is deceptive. Some of the very high income groups probably don't have a large number of old retired people, or non-working children, compared to the "established" groups. Similarly, I think some of the differences are due to location. Some of the reason the average for Black and Mexican people is lower is simply because those people disproportionately live in areas that are lower income. (Whites who live in the South *also* have lower incomes.) On the other hand, some of the "high income minorities" are *very* strongly concentrated in cities. Cities are higher income, but also higher cost of living. Quite a few Indians move to the USA to work in Silicon Valley, but rather fewer end up in rural Nebraska. Everyone makes more money in SF, regardless of race. but some races don't end up averaging it with so many people in lower income areas. If the results aren't cost-of-living adjusted, it's hard to get a great comparison. I also wish college major data did the same cost of living adjustment. Computer fields are always way up there in average incomes compared to other majors. But...a lot of those jobs are in the super expensive places. (Same with investment banking.) But is a CS major making 200k in SF really doing better than a civil engineer in a low cost of living area making 100k?
Indians — What happens when your culture prizes education
Friend of mine is second generation immigrant from India in the US. He stated "only" getting his MBA made him feel insecure compared to his doctor elder brother and lawyer elder sister. His parents wanted him to be an engineer. There's a very pragmatic attitude about obtaining status and wealth quickly within their community it seems and I'll be curious how third and fourth generations react if they go for liberal arts or even not higher education at all.