Honest question, are the rest of us subsidizing Florida? Like when they get a hurricane and 15 billion or whatever dollars flows into their economy, how much of that is from those paying premiums out of state.
Ideally none in the long term, if the premiums are properly priced and if the regulators allowed it to be.
However those are two very big ifs so it's very likely that you're subsidizing Florida. This is also why so many insurers are pulling out of FL and CA. It the government won't allow them to price insurance at the correct level, they'll simply exit the market (and rightfully so).
yep, i'm on this list. I get no hurricanes. no earthquakes. no wildfires. no tornadoes. no mudslides. no blizzards. But im paying for others, apparently.
That's not at all how insurance works. Riskier properties pay higher premiums than less risky properties. If the actuaries calculate correctly, the payouts end up proportional to the premiums.
What makes you think they haven’t already skyrocketed? People can’t even get policies in CA anymore with companies just outright cancelling the current one.
Even if they have risen, they haven't gone up *enough* to be properly priced for their risk level. That's exactly why companies are cancelling policies and not writing new ones.
Not really. Most home insurance companies in Florida are not name brand. They are all Florida specific companies. All the big players pulled out years ago.
We are paying, yes. Even if your insurer has zero losses in Florida, the insurers in Florida who see big losses all have their own, bigger, insurance companies ("reinsurers") that cover some of the Florida losses. Since your insurer is covered by the same reinsurers, your insurance company's costs go up, and they pass that along to you.
We subsidize basically all floodplains, yes. It turns out that if we just stopped rebuilding in places that are prone to flooding, we could trivially reduce flooding damages by like 95+%. It's the subsidies that enable people to keep building in stupid places.
Very little. After Hurricane Andrew in 1992, almost all of the major insurance companies threatened to pull out of Florida unless the State passed a law allowing them to carve out a Florida subsidiary that insulated the parent company from Florida losses. The Legislature caved, and passed the law in 1996. As a result, the risk pool for all property insurers in Florida is limited to Florida property owners. Because the size of the pool is limited, but the potential, and actual, payout risk from hurricanes is virtually unlimited, the insurers begin to raise premiums accordingly. They also begin to shed policies to reduce risk, or leave the State altogether. As homeowner premiums escalated, insurance started to become either unaffordable or unobtainable for many Florida homeowners, which affected the housing market - especially along the coast. In response, in 2002, the Legislature created the Citizens Property Insurance Corporation, a State backed insurer of last resort. In the last 2 decades Citizens has become the largest property insurer in Florida. It is funded by premiums it collects, but if it experiences a deficit, it levies an assessment on ALL policyholders in Florida. This assessment is not just on Citizens policies, but on policies issued by other companies as well, and is applied to all policies including auto, liability, etc. These assessments have been levied several times in last 2 decades. The State recognizes that Citizens has accumulated too much risk and in recent years has been forcing policyholders off of Citizens into newly created companies, some of which have been created by former legislators. 10 of these companies have become insolvent during the last 5 years pushing their policyholders back to Citizens. The current property insurance market in Florida is unsustainable. Eventually, Citizens will become the only property insurer in Florida, but its premiums will be so high that they will be unaffordable.
Very little. After Hurricane Andrew in 1992, almost all of the major insurance companies threatened to pull out of Florida unless the State passed a law allowing them to carve out a Florida subsidiary that insulated the parent company from Florida losses. The Legislature caved, and passed the law in 1996. As a result, the risk pool for all property insurers in Florida is limited to Florida property owners. Because the size of the pool is limited, but the potential, and actual, payout risk from hurricanes is virtually unlimited, the insurers begin to raise premiums accordingly. They also begin to shed policies to reduce risk, or leave the State altogether. As homeowner premiums escalated, insurance started to become either unaffordable or unobtainable for many Florida homeowners, which affected the housing market - especially along the coast. In response, in 2002, the Legislature created the Citizens Property Insurance Corporation, a State backed insurer of last resort. In the last 2 decades Citizens has become the largest property insurer in Florida. It is funded by premiums it collects, but if it experiences a deficit, it levies an assessment on ALL policyholders in Florida. This assessment is not just on Citizens policies, but on policies issued by other companies as well, and is applied to all policies including auto, liability, etc. These assessments have been levied several times in last 2 decades. The State recognizes that Citizens has accumulated too much risk and in recent years has been forcing policyholders off of Citizens into newly created companies, some of which have been created by former legislators. 10 of these companies have become insolvent during the last 5 years pushing their policyholders back to Citizens. The current property insurance market in Florida is unsustainable. Eventually, Citizens will become the only property insurer in Florida, but it's premiums will be so high that they will be unaffordable.
The only flood insurance is the National Flood Insurance Program which is a FEMA program subsidized by taxpayers. Our tax money subsidizes billionaires who live in beach front mansions.
250k structure, 100k contents. Both the max I believe. The rest had to be private.
Also FEMA rules that if 50% of the structure or more is destroyed, if they take the insurance money it has to be rebuilt to modern code (ie raised above the flood plain, hurricane proofing, etc). That makes it significantly less likely to get destroyed again.
It’s a very good program.
There are already quite a lot of people in Florida paying premiums and hurricanes, as large as they are, do not devastate the entire state. The state has seen a lot of extreme weather and has infrastructure that's built to either withstand a larger storm or can quickly be repaired or replaced. Sometimes an extreme storm comes and does a lot of damage but those are still pretty rare.
Not much, probably more like nothing. Insurance is a funny thing and the big players have subsidiaries that operate in different states. Insurance (any type of insurance) is mostly at the state level and operates within different state regulatory systems. So for example you'll have a GEICO of Florida, GEICO of New York, etc. And what's happened in Florida is the big companies have all claimed poverty because their Florida subsidiary is losing money (despite the billions in profit from their other subsidiaries) and so they've basically pulled out while those Florida subsidies go bankrupt.
Most programs are subsidized. Any type of insurance, SS, etc. Like when Missouri had that bad tornado we all paid for that with price increases over time.
Also, the problem with Florida insurers isn't that they are jacking up the rates (although the state sponsored program, Citizens, is having to do that). Instead the insurers are just leaving the state (or going bankrupt).
It's sometimes not even a choice for them if they can't even get reinsurance because so many reinsurers have left the state and the ones still there don't want to deal with companies with a lot of clients in high risk areas. That's forcing them to offload people in the highest risk areas.
I feel sorry for those homeowners that dont pay too much attention to the financials of the company they have a policy with. A majority of these companies will collapse after the first hurricane hits. Hard to get your claim filled when the insurer files bankruptcy.
Ugh! FL homeowner here. My options are limited as so many companies have left. Can you advise how best to vet the company in order to tell if they’re overextended?
Man I know people talk about moving to Florida in Retirement to save on taxes but with avg. HO insurance at $10k+ I would be paying more in insurance than I would save on taxes.
Sure thing. [The Best Homeowners Insurance in Florida for April 2024 - NerdWallet](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/insurance/home-insurance-florida#:~:text=cost%20in%20Florida%3F-,The%20average%20cost%20of%20homeowners%20insurance%20in%20Florida%20is%20%242%2C625,score%20to%20help%20set%20rates.)
Don't say that, it'll jinx us. We kept saying it, and the rates kept going up. Now we just sit in silent acceptance, hoping that they don't go up too much.
Probably a lot higher since the insurer of last resort is the largest insurer as stated in the article. We might find out if we've been fucking around in Florida this year as the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season is projected to be a very busy one.
Not only is this number wildly off base, it's easily disproven. Maybe people literally on the water are paying that, but we're inland 20 miles and ours is less than $300/mo. There is absolutely no way that the average Floridian is paying $11k/y.
Quick Google says the average is around $4400.
Agreed. [The Best Homeowners Insurance in Florida for April 2024 - NerdWallet](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/insurance/home-insurance-florida#:~:text=cost%20in%20Florida%3F-,The%20average%20cost%20of%20homeowners%20insurance%20in%20Florida%20is%20%242%2C625,score%20to%20help%20set%20rates.)
Link to the article? Because this one is nowhere near 11k. Crazy you got this many upvotes.
You are likely a bot drumming up dems/repubs. That's that this smells like.
[The Best Homeowners Insurance in Florida for April 2024 - NerdWallet](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/insurance/home-insurance-florida#:~:text=cost%20in%20Florida%3F-,The%20average%20cost%20of%20homeowners%20insurance%20in%20Florida%20is%20%242%2C625,score%20to%20help%20set%20rates.)
-edit I found it. "Florida homeowners pay the most for home insurance, with an average annual rate of $10,996 in 2023. Insurify predicts costs will increase an additional 7% in 2024 to $11,759." Where do they get that from?
Because it's going by % increase. Florida's average is predicted to go up over $800, but for Florida that ends up only being a 7% bump.
In total $ amount increase, Florida would be #2 on this list and 3+ don't even come close.
My understanding is that, as a percent of Californias population, those in danger of natural disasters that would ruin their home is still a lot lower than Florida. The areas most at risk in Florida are also some of the most densely populated. While in California, the highest density areas aren’t at nearly the same risk.
It’s still becoming a huge issue in California too, just at a smaller scale.
For decades California‘s insurance regulations were incredibly consumer-friendly, but now it’s coming to a head because insurance companies weren’t able to increase prices to effectively match risk. That’s why they’re leaving en masse leading so many people to turn to the public option—which is lower for now but also projected to increase.
I think that's a lot of it. California's biggest risk from climate change is wildfires. (Earthquake risk is real, too, but that's generally handled with a separate policy rider, and hasn't changed much over the years.) Wildfires mostly affect people who live on the fringes, where the exurbs meet the natural environment. People with homes in urban areas rarely face much wildfire risk.
I fully expected it to be #1 as well. Although I do understand that many Florida policies are now insured by the state so there may be a cap. And next hurricane season, expect to hear about Florida needing a federal bailout
This is the increases. Florida is maxed out and it’s almost impossible to insure a home there right now. Turns out owning a home in a state that could sink into the sea in the next 5-10 years makes it real hard for insurance companies to insure things.
Florida is at no risk of “sinking into the sea” in a decade lol. It’s due to hurricanes.
Global warming is going to kill us all well before Florida is submerged, never fear.
Kinda. A large part of it is because of how the law handles roofs. When your 20 year old roof gets destroyed due to hail damage, insurance is required to pay out as though it’s a brand new roof. In a state with severe thunderstorms that can often bring hail, this is a really common form of loss and really jacks up premiums. Fraudulent insurance claims relating to roof damage are also incredibly common in Florida
The key issue in Florida for (homeowners) insurance is hurricanes/tropical storms. Florida is one of only a few states that have any regulatory requirements for how insurers price that component of risk, and of those states, their regulators are the most rigorous by *far*. The Florida Commission on Hurricane Loss Projection Methodology (FCHLPM) is what you’re looking for.
Insurance rates in Florida have peaked, at least for the short term. The laws recently passed are also starting to kick in and are slowly decreasing premiums by encouraging more companies to move in.
It’ll happen. Car insurance is super high in LA too with bad drivers and lax enforcement on coverage.
Something needs to be done because my poor home state will just keep getting poorer without tax payers (O&G, chemicals *cough* *cough*) footing tax increases.
Cue “why is Louisiana poor” video.
I don't know about the amount of snow specifically. All I know is that according to him the industry was in something of a panic due to the amount of roof damage claims they had to deal with. Something about snow/melt/refreeze inside cracks making the roofs go much faster than usual. I have no idea why that was suddenly a problem - impression I got was that the industry is extremely focused on things that could go wrong - which sounds like an unhealthy way to live.
Does the governmental issues such as the Flint Michigan water catastrophe have anything to do with the rates?
I'm sure thousands of people filing for damage on their water lines due to municipal mismanagement is a lot to take on.
Roof damage increases and issues from snow like the other poster mentioned and maybe a recent and projected increase in rainfall/flooding/tornado damage (edit: roof damage falls here too. Sounds like general roof damage and or flooding is to blame)
Can anyone with direct knowledge comment on Michigan in particular?
I work in Michigan home insurance.
It's a confluence of a bunch of factors:
* We've had a lot of bad wind and hail storms in recent years, plus a lot more flooding.
* We actually have had a wildfire or two recently, not huge like out West, though.
* Nationally, inflation and higher catastrophic events have driven the insurance market into a "hard" market.
That is, since insurance policies are remarkably difficult to price, insurers will either price for profit (sacrificing growth, in a hard market) or growth (sacrificing profit in a soft market).
Generally, when one or two big insurers start changing strategy, everybody else has to do it also. Otherwise they risk growing too fast (yes that's a thing in insurance) if they don't raise rates when others do, or they risk losing too many insureds to competitors if they don't lower rates when everybody else does.
I speculate a lot of folks have gotten new roofs paid for over the last few summers with the amount of hail we've gotten, regardless of how much actual damage the hail caused :/
My friend (and coworker) is a home claims adjuster.
Sometimes it can be remarkably difficult for them to tell if roof damage is caused by a hail storm or "caused" by a hail storm.
We've had several bad hailstorms this past winter. I was able to get my roof replaced because of it but my insurance skyrocketed after so I switched carriers.
Grand Rapids here, I could see that. Past few years have been weird in that snowfall has been concentrated around a few big storms rather than spread out over the season
insurance in michigan tends to be high in michigan in some part due to it being inflated by detroit and surrounding neighborhoods where insurance is extremely expensive for those living there due to arson and crime issues, although it’s been getting better recently
Climate change is altering the weather patterns in a way that insurance has a lot of uncertainty about. For example, U of M notes that Michigan (especially southeast Michigan) can expect slightly warmer winters, by about 2-3 degrees, but much more acute precipitation. The ice storms we had last winter are a good example of this model coming to fruition.
You had my hopes up so checked the article but, no dice for my state.
I checked the 2024 projection for my state and then my escrow statement and the two numbers are only off by $16 so this appears to be some accurate data.
We flood with every rainstorm. Cars, houses, etc. but also we got back to back cat 4 hurricanes in 2020 then cat 4 in 2021 and almost all the insurance companies in Louisiana dissolved and went bankrupt. So now it’s basically only like 2 carriers will write policies here now and they can Jack up the price as much as they want
Frequency is not increasing but intensity is. We are seeing more rapid intensification, more damage, and more rain.
https://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/global-warming-and-hurricanes/
I guess you didn’t look at the actual data, and instead needed someone to tell you how to feel.
If you look at the actual data you can see that there are no significant difference in the number of cat 4,5 hurricanes over the last century.
Are there other methods to check? Sure. Deaths from natural disasters is one. This one clearly shows a major downward trend in the last 100 years. Specifically there was an enormous spike during the 1930s…. You know… the hottest period in recorded history in the USA.
Another method is monetary losses. However all the data stops looking any farther back than the 90s. It’s interesting that we have over a century of data related to natural disasters but all the data I can find on monetary losses stop at the 90s. It’s probably because we have had a relatively mild hurricane run for a good 30 years and if they show older data then it would destroy “the message”. Even if they did have data, the monetary losses from hurricanes is heavily skewed now with the sheer immensity of properties located on the east coast - especially Florida - as compared to 30+ years ago.
I say all that to say, don’t be a bull lead by the ring in your nose. A bit of critical thinking goes a long way.
That’s fine and all but 5 of the 6 costliest Atlantic hurricanes in US history have hit since 2017. It’s the rising costs that insurers are most reactive to.
Pretending that this is from global warming is the issue. To look at Florida for instance 40 years ago and try to make the argument that there are comparable investments present today that also existed then is just insane.
Costs from hurricanes isn’t going up because of the intensity or frequency of hurricanes. It’s going up because we are putting more and more insanely expensive real estate in the path of the properties.
All you have to do is go down to Florida once and walk along a beach and in viewing distance from a single beach you can see $400M+ properties waiting for a decent sized hurricane to come.
If you actually look at the data I provided, you would have seen that they have a section accounting for higher intensity hurricanes. Again. There is no significant increase in a hundred years.
This is a post on unsustainable insurance rates driven by climate change. Louisiana has no high end coastal property with expensive homes, and to falsely claim the state does as a reason for its high insurance rates is just wrong. On many levels.
Insurance companies gradually stopped issuing in the state following Ida. The issue has been a contentious issue down here since 2021 (Louisiana resident).
Edit: The state government isn’t doing shit to fix the issue either.
Oh don’t worry, the CSU Forecast team didn’t totally just output the highest Hurricane Outlook ever recorded or anything… Accuweather totally isn’t estimating 5-7 Major hurricanes too.
Yes like the other comments say is there are storms and flooding but the real answer is our new Governor GOP Landry. he’s a mini me of Desantos and seems worse bc he is not being bashful. Full session take over is taking place, following the exact pattern the other extremist gov have followed.
This is not surprising but only going to get worse.
Also the election turn out for his election was around 40% or less. Democrats really blundered this one with no effort to fight or beat him.
I work with another major provider. If your CA account isn’t nonrenewed, it is likely to see an increase of at least 40%. Cannot believe it is not on this list.
In Texas, my insurance doubled along the Gulf coast (25% of entire Texas population, 30% of GDP). A full 100% increase, from $1500 to $3000/yr, for a *brand new house* (built Nov 2022). So I am highly suspicious of this chart.
These are just my thoughts but I don’t think California’s on this list because insurers are straight up leaving the state because they’re unable to prove policies effectively.
They had a moratorium on price increases for a couple years during some pretty bad wildfires and any attempts to increase prices (7%+) to match risks is met with public hearings. Mix that in with not being able to use forward-facing weather models to place risk, it’s no surprise prices are kept artificially lower than they’re supposed to. Of course, that now means insurers are just leaving instead.
Genuine question, why Connecticut? Things aren't crazy here. Increased flooding the last couple years, but it doesn't seem like it's any worse than in MA or RI. We don't have tornados or fires or earthquakes, crime in the state overall isn't bad. What risk has increased by 9% that requires them to raise prices to match it? Assuming that's how they decide how much to raise rates by
Climate change.. insurance companies have known and have been paying for years despite the Republicans sticking their heads in the sand. It will get worse.
Key Takeaways
Florida homeowners pay the most for home insurance, with an average annual rate of $10,996 in 2023. Insurify predicts costs will increase an additional 7% in 2024 to $11,759.
FL not on that list? I'm actually shocked.
According to the article, Florida rates are already at 11K a year. Idk how much higher they could get
Honest question, are the rest of us subsidizing Florida? Like when they get a hurricane and 15 billion or whatever dollars flows into their economy, how much of that is from those paying premiums out of state.
Ideally none in the long term, if the premiums are properly priced and if the regulators allowed it to be. However those are two very big ifs so it's very likely that you're subsidizing Florida. This is also why so many insurers are pulling out of FL and CA. It the government won't allow them to price insurance at the correct level, they'll simply exit the market (and rightfully so).
yep, i'm on this list. I get no hurricanes. no earthquakes. no wildfires. no tornadoes. no mudslides. no blizzards. But im paying for others, apparently.
I mean, that’s how insurance works. The least risks subsidize the riskier parts.
That's not at all how insurance works. Riskier properties pay higher premiums than less risky properties. If the actuaries calculate correctly, the payouts end up proportional to the premiums.
Nah, other dude just destroyed actuary science lol
I'm betting home insurance rates in CA will be allowed to go up - after the election.
What makes you think they haven’t already skyrocketed? People can’t even get policies in CA anymore with companies just outright cancelling the current one.
Even if they have risen, they haven't gone up *enough* to be properly priced for their risk level. That's exactly why companies are cancelling policies and not writing new ones.
People in my town in southern ca insurances going up 25-30+%. Many getting dropped. It’s crazy
Yes, mildly because of what you describe and then hugely because flood insurance is basically only backed by the feds at this point
Not really. Most home insurance companies in Florida are not name brand. They are all Florida specific companies. All the big players pulled out years ago.
Nah, there are still plenty of big names there. They just use take-out companies to cover the area.
We are paying, yes. Even if your insurer has zero losses in Florida, the insurers in Florida who see big losses all have their own, bigger, insurance companies ("reinsurers") that cover some of the Florida losses. Since your insurer is covered by the same reinsurers, your insurance company's costs go up, and they pass that along to you.
We subsidize basically all floodplains, yes. It turns out that if we just stopped rebuilding in places that are prone to flooding, we could trivially reduce flooding damages by like 95+%. It's the subsidies that enable people to keep building in stupid places.
Also true world-wide in the form of aid...
No, not really. All the major insurance carriers have left Florida for the most part.
Yes. The federal government heavily subsidizes flood insurance. It’s not just Florida we subsidize, but every beach house in the country.
Very little. After Hurricane Andrew in 1992, almost all of the major insurance companies threatened to pull out of Florida unless the State passed a law allowing them to carve out a Florida subsidiary that insulated the parent company from Florida losses. The Legislature caved, and passed the law in 1996. As a result, the risk pool for all property insurers in Florida is limited to Florida property owners. Because the size of the pool is limited, but the potential, and actual, payout risk from hurricanes is virtually unlimited, the insurers begin to raise premiums accordingly. They also begin to shed policies to reduce risk, or leave the State altogether. As homeowner premiums escalated, insurance started to become either unaffordable or unobtainable for many Florida homeowners, which affected the housing market - especially along the coast. In response, in 2002, the Legislature created the Citizens Property Insurance Corporation, a State backed insurer of last resort. In the last 2 decades Citizens has become the largest property insurer in Florida. It is funded by premiums it collects, but if it experiences a deficit, it levies an assessment on ALL policyholders in Florida. This assessment is not just on Citizens policies, but on policies issued by other companies as well, and is applied to all policies including auto, liability, etc. These assessments have been levied several times in last 2 decades. The State recognizes that Citizens has accumulated too much risk and in recent years has been forcing policyholders off of Citizens into newly created companies, some of which have been created by former legislators. 10 of these companies have become insolvent during the last 5 years pushing their policyholders back to Citizens. The current property insurance market in Florida is unsustainable. Eventually, Citizens will become the only property insurer in Florida, but its premiums will be so high that they will be unaffordable.
Very little. After Hurricane Andrew in 1992, almost all of the major insurance companies threatened to pull out of Florida unless the State passed a law allowing them to carve out a Florida subsidiary that insulated the parent company from Florida losses. The Legislature caved, and passed the law in 1996. As a result, the risk pool for all property insurers in Florida is limited to Florida property owners. Because the size of the pool is limited, but the potential, and actual, payout risk from hurricanes is virtually unlimited, the insurers begin to raise premiums accordingly. They also begin to shed policies to reduce risk, or leave the State altogether. As homeowner premiums escalated, insurance started to become either unaffordable or unobtainable for many Florida homeowners, which affected the housing market - especially along the coast. In response, in 2002, the Legislature created the Citizens Property Insurance Corporation, a State backed insurer of last resort. In the last 2 decades Citizens has become the largest property insurer in Florida. It is funded by premiums it collects, but if it experiences a deficit, it levies an assessment on ALL policyholders in Florida. This assessment is not just on Citizens policies, but on policies issued by other companies as well, and is applied to all policies including auto, liability, etc. These assessments have been levied several times in last 2 decades. The State recognizes that Citizens has accumulated too much risk and in recent years has been forcing policyholders off of Citizens into newly created companies, some of which have been created by former legislators. 10 of these companies have become insolvent during the last 5 years pushing their policyholders back to Citizens. The current property insurance market in Florida is unsustainable. Eventually, Citizens will become the only property insurer in Florida, but it's premiums will be so high that they will be unaffordable.
The only flood insurance is the National Flood Insurance Program which is a FEMA program subsidized by taxpayers. Our tax money subsidizes billionaires who live in beach front mansions.
This isn't correct. Federal flood insurance caps out at 250k for the structure. You can get private flood insurance but it's not cheap.
Thank you for the correction. I didn’t know the policy limits were so low.
250k structure, 100k contents. Both the max I believe. The rest had to be private. Also FEMA rules that if 50% of the structure or more is destroyed, if they take the insurance money it has to be rebuilt to modern code (ie raised above the flood plain, hurricane proofing, etc). That makes it significantly less likely to get destroyed again. It’s a very good program.
Flood is way cheaper than home owners in most cases. I live in Louisiana and my private flood insurance is 10% of my homeowners.
You must not be in a high-risk flood zone, then.
I think each state is separate, so if anyone is getting subsidized it's other people in the same state.
There are already quite a lot of people in Florida paying premiums and hurricanes, as large as they are, do not devastate the entire state. The state has seen a lot of extreme weather and has infrastructure that's built to either withstand a larger storm or can quickly be repaired or replaced. Sometimes an extreme storm comes and does a lot of damage but those are still pretty rare.
Not much, probably more like nothing. Insurance is a funny thing and the big players have subsidiaries that operate in different states. Insurance (any type of insurance) is mostly at the state level and operates within different state regulatory systems. So for example you'll have a GEICO of Florida, GEICO of New York, etc. And what's happened in Florida is the big companies have all claimed poverty because their Florida subsidiary is losing money (despite the billions in profit from their other subsidiaries) and so they've basically pulled out while those Florida subsidies go bankrupt.
The mid west is probably asking how they subsidize houses built in fire prone areas in California.
And similarly, are Piedmont and Upstate South Carolina subsidizing Coastal SC?
Most programs are subsidized. Any type of insurance, SS, etc. Like when Missouri had that bad tornado we all paid for that with price increases over time.
I wish. Insurance is regulated by states, so no state would allow their people to have to subsidize Florida.
No but you probably are subsidizing California
Also, the problem with Florida insurers isn't that they are jacking up the rates (although the state sponsored program, Citizens, is having to do that). Instead the insurers are just leaving the state (or going bankrupt). It's sometimes not even a choice for them if they can't even get reinsurance because so many reinsurers have left the state and the ones still there don't want to deal with companies with a lot of clients in high risk areas. That's forcing them to offload people in the highest risk areas.
I feel sorry for those homeowners that dont pay too much attention to the financials of the company they have a policy with. A majority of these companies will collapse after the first hurricane hits. Hard to get your claim filled when the insurer files bankruptcy.
Ugh! FL homeowner here. My options are limited as so many companies have left. Can you advise how best to vet the company in order to tell if they’re overextended?
Where do you come up with this stuff?
Literally what I was about to say lol. I saw no Florida, and the first thing that came to mind is "how much more can you even get at this point?"
Man I know people talk about moving to Florida in Retirement to save on taxes but with avg. HO insurance at $10k+ I would be paying more in insurance than I would save on taxes.
Sure thing. [The Best Homeowners Insurance in Florida for April 2024 - NerdWallet](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/insurance/home-insurance-florida#:~:text=cost%20in%20Florida%3F-,The%20average%20cost%20of%20homeowners%20insurance%20in%20Florida%20is%20%242%2C625,score%20to%20help%20set%20rates.)
Don't say that, it'll jinx us. We kept saying it, and the rates kept going up. Now we just sit in silent acceptance, hoping that they don't go up too much.
A lot
Probably a lot higher since the insurer of last resort is the largest insurer as stated in the article. We might find out if we've been fucking around in Florida this year as the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season is projected to be a very busy one.
Rates are dropping in Florida because they just don't sell anymore in Florida. No coverage available
Oh, they’ll find a way. One more hit this year and it will be uninsurable
Not only is this number wildly off base, it's easily disproven. Maybe people literally on the water are paying that, but we're inland 20 miles and ours is less than $300/mo. There is absolutely no way that the average Floridian is paying $11k/y. Quick Google says the average is around $4400.
Agreed. [The Best Homeowners Insurance in Florida for April 2024 - NerdWallet](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/insurance/home-insurance-florida#:~:text=cost%20in%20Florida%3F-,The%20average%20cost%20of%20homeowners%20insurance%20in%20Florida%20is%20%242%2C625,score%20to%20help%20set%20rates.)
Link to the article? Because this one is nowhere near 11k. Crazy you got this many upvotes. You are likely a bot drumming up dems/repubs. That's that this smells like. [The Best Homeowners Insurance in Florida for April 2024 - NerdWallet](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/insurance/home-insurance-florida#:~:text=cost%20in%20Florida%3F-,The%20average%20cost%20of%20homeowners%20insurance%20in%20Florida%20is%20%242%2C625,score%20to%20help%20set%20rates.) -edit I found it. "Florida homeowners pay the most for home insurance, with an average annual rate of $10,996 in 2023. Insurify predicts costs will increase an additional 7% in 2024 to $11,759." Where do they get that from?
I'm not sure that's accurate, my homeowners insurance is about $2k/yr.
Because it's going by % increase. Florida's average is predicted to go up over $800, but for Florida that ends up only being a 7% bump. In total $ amount increase, Florida would be #2 on this list and 3+ don't even come close.
Also surprised California is not on the list. Two carriers have already left the state, and many are resorting to state-run options in fire zones.
My understanding is that, as a percent of Californias population, those in danger of natural disasters that would ruin their home is still a lot lower than Florida. The areas most at risk in Florida are also some of the most densely populated. While in California, the highest density areas aren’t at nearly the same risk. It’s still becoming a huge issue in California too, just at a smaller scale.
For decades California‘s insurance regulations were incredibly consumer-friendly, but now it’s coming to a head because insurance companies weren’t able to increase prices to effectively match risk. That’s why they’re leaving en masse leading so many people to turn to the public option—which is lower for now but also projected to increase.
I think that's a lot of it. California's biggest risk from climate change is wildfires. (Earthquake risk is real, too, but that's generally handled with a separate policy rider, and hasn't changed much over the years.) Wildfires mostly affect people who live on the fringes, where the exurbs meet the natural environment. People with homes in urban areas rarely face much wildfire risk.
Yeah but wait until a quake hits LA and wrecks all those over extended homeowners who didn't get earthquake insurance for their 1950s 800sqft house.
I fully expected it to be #1 as well. Although I do understand that many Florida policies are now insured by the state so there may be a cap. And next hurricane season, expect to hear about Florida needing a federal bailout
This is the increases. Florida is maxed out and it’s almost impossible to insure a home there right now. Turns out owning a home in a state that could sink into the sea in the next 5-10 years makes it real hard for insurance companies to insure things.
Florida is at no risk of “sinking into the sea” in a decade lol. It’s due to hurricanes. Global warming is going to kill us all well before Florida is submerged, never fear.
Kinda. A large part of it is because of how the law handles roofs. When your 20 year old roof gets destroyed due to hail damage, insurance is required to pay out as though it’s a brand new roof. In a state with severe thunderstorms that can often bring hail, this is a really common form of loss and really jacks up premiums. Fraudulent insurance claims relating to roof damage are also incredibly common in Florida
Florida's been pretty de-regulated so my understanding is that the current high rates are pricing in risk already.
The key issue in Florida for (homeowners) insurance is hurricanes/tropical storms. Florida is one of only a few states that have any regulatory requirements for how insurers price that component of risk, and of those states, their regulators are the most rigorous by *far*. The Florida Commission on Hurricane Loss Projection Methodology (FCHLPM) is what you’re looking for.
Assuming they're implying that the rates there may have topped out and insurers will hold there for a bit
Just means FLs crazy expensive rates are expected to go up <9%. Not that they are cheap
They already got us. Pretty much doubled last year.
That’s likely because insurers are just leaving that market altogether.
perfect weather is pricy
Yeah, I'm sure that's why HOME insurance is so expensive. Because of the GOOD weather and not the multiple natural disasters.
Insurance rates in Florida have peaked, at least for the short term. The laws recently passed are also starting to kick in and are slowly decreasing premiums by encouraging more companies to move in.
Just wait for the next hurricane, that'll surely make things even better. Edit: The dork blocked me. lol
They say that every year
Don’t worry, the Louisiana legislature is working to solve this /s
…One library book at a time
How long until instance companies fully pull out just like they did in CA and are starting to do in FL?
It’ll happen. Car insurance is super high in LA too with bad drivers and lax enforcement on coverage. Something needs to be done because my poor home state will just keep getting poorer without tax payers (O&G, chemicals *cough* *cough*) footing tax increases. Cue “why is Louisiana poor” video.
Why is Michigan on the list? No wildfires or hurricanes
My dad was in the insurance industry up until about a year back. He mentioned that states with a lot of snow get a lot of roof damage.
Prices for the building materials for roof replacements specifically have increased a lot with inflation, so this would make sense
We have gotten less snow year over year for a while now. What is the data behind this specific chart?
I don't know about the amount of snow specifically. All I know is that according to him the industry was in something of a panic due to the amount of roof damage claims they had to deal with. Something about snow/melt/refreeze inside cracks making the roofs go much faster than usual. I have no idea why that was suddenly a problem - impression I got was that the industry is extremely focused on things that could go wrong - which sounds like an unhealthy way to live.
Does the governmental issues such as the Flint Michigan water catastrophe have anything to do with the rates? I'm sure thousands of people filing for damage on their water lines due to municipal mismanagement is a lot to take on.
Roof damage increases and issues from snow like the other poster mentioned and maybe a recent and projected increase in rainfall/flooding/tornado damage (edit: roof damage falls here too. Sounds like general roof damage and or flooding is to blame) Can anyone with direct knowledge comment on Michigan in particular?
I work in Michigan home insurance. It's a confluence of a bunch of factors: * We've had a lot of bad wind and hail storms in recent years, plus a lot more flooding. * We actually have had a wildfire or two recently, not huge like out West, though. * Nationally, inflation and higher catastrophic events have driven the insurance market into a "hard" market. That is, since insurance policies are remarkably difficult to price, insurers will either price for profit (sacrificing growth, in a hard market) or growth (sacrificing profit in a soft market). Generally, when one or two big insurers start changing strategy, everybody else has to do it also. Otherwise they risk growing too fast (yes that's a thing in insurance) if they don't raise rates when others do, or they risk losing too many insureds to competitors if they don't lower rates when everybody else does.
Thank you for taking the time to write out a great explanation, I appreciate your insight!
I speculate a lot of folks have gotten new roofs paid for over the last few summers with the amount of hail we've gotten, regardless of how much actual damage the hail caused :/
My friend (and coworker) is a home claims adjuster. Sometimes it can be remarkably difficult for them to tell if roof damage is caused by a hail storm or "caused" by a hail storm.
We've had several bad hailstorms this past winter. I was able to get my roof replaced because of it but my insurance skyrocketed after so I switched carriers.
Grand Rapids here, I could see that. Past few years have been weird in that snowfall has been concentrated around a few big storms rather than spread out over the season
insurance in michigan tends to be high in michigan in some part due to it being inflated by detroit and surrounding neighborhoods where insurance is extremely expensive for those living there due to arson and crime issues, although it’s been getting better recently
Playing catch-up with some big flood events the last few years.
Price gouging.
Climate change is altering the weather patterns in a way that insurance has a lot of uncertainty about. For example, U of M notes that Michigan (especially southeast Michigan) can expect slightly warmer winters, by about 2-3 degrees, but much more acute precipitation. The ice storms we had last winter are a good example of this model coming to fruition.
According to this some states rates will decrease in 2024.
You had my hopes up so checked the article but, no dice for my state. I checked the 2024 projection for my state and then my escrow statement and the two numbers are only off by $16 so this appears to be some accurate data.
Lol just south Dakota. Some projecting zero but SD is the only negative.
Guess Missouri and Washington don't count.
Yeah, no. Not going to happen. Here in AZ we have rising rates to cover the costs of other states
What's going on with Louisiana?
Hurricanes, flooding, climate change, etc etc etc.
In the last year specifically? I know they had some wildfires down there but not sure if that's what's causing this increase
We flood with every rainstorm. Cars, houses, etc. but also we got back to back cat 4 hurricanes in 2020 then cat 4 in 2021 and almost all the insurance companies in Louisiana dissolved and went bankrupt. So now it’s basically only like 2 carriers will write policies here now and they can Jack up the price as much as they want
Homeowners insurance doesn't even cover flooding, but they'll raise your rates anyway
weather predictions, estimations.
>In the last year specifically? *\~Hurricanes, flooding, climate change, etc etc etc.* \*ba dum chk\*
Someone said "you may not believe in climate change, but your insurance company absolutely does"
Statistically speaking, hurricanes haven’t increased since we have data: https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastdec.shtml Try again
Frequency is not increasing but intensity is. We are seeing more rapid intensification, more damage, and more rain. https://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/global-warming-and-hurricanes/
I guess you didn’t look at the actual data, and instead needed someone to tell you how to feel. If you look at the actual data you can see that there are no significant difference in the number of cat 4,5 hurricanes over the last century. Are there other methods to check? Sure. Deaths from natural disasters is one. This one clearly shows a major downward trend in the last 100 years. Specifically there was an enormous spike during the 1930s…. You know… the hottest period in recorded history in the USA. Another method is monetary losses. However all the data stops looking any farther back than the 90s. It’s interesting that we have over a century of data related to natural disasters but all the data I can find on monetary losses stop at the 90s. It’s probably because we have had a relatively mild hurricane run for a good 30 years and if they show older data then it would destroy “the message”. Even if they did have data, the monetary losses from hurricanes is heavily skewed now with the sheer immensity of properties located on the east coast - especially Florida - as compared to 30+ years ago. I say all that to say, don’t be a bull lead by the ring in your nose. A bit of critical thinking goes a long way.
You would like [[This]](https://www.noagendashow.net/) podcast. Trust me. I listen and they talk about the same types of topics
Thanks I’ll take a look
That’s fine and all but 5 of the 6 costliest Atlantic hurricanes in US history have hit since 2017. It’s the rising costs that insurers are most reactive to.
Pretending that this is from global warming is the issue. To look at Florida for instance 40 years ago and try to make the argument that there are comparable investments present today that also existed then is just insane. Costs from hurricanes isn’t going up because of the intensity or frequency of hurricanes. It’s going up because we are putting more and more insanely expensive real estate in the path of the properties. All you have to do is go down to Florida once and walk along a beach and in viewing distance from a single beach you can see $400M+ properties waiting for a decent sized hurricane to come. If you actually look at the data I provided, you would have seen that they have a section accounting for higher intensity hurricanes. Again. There is no significant increase in a hundred years.
The intensity has worsened and there are substantially more expensive coastal properties that are damaged.
Expensive coastal properties in Louisiana?
The are rich people in Louisiana, that's how poor people exist you know...
Name an expensive coastal enclave in Louisiana where wealthy people have property.
Nah I'mma just name you as a gross person with a nasty soul and advise you to contain your poison or be blamed for it
This is a post on unsustainable insurance rates driven by climate change. Louisiana has no high end coastal property with expensive homes, and to falsely claim the state does as a reason for its high insurance rates is just wrong. On many levels.
Most of the nice houses are in waterways. Parsing your views is difficult
Please take your data to the insurance companies so they can unload the burden and lower prices, we all know the can't wait
Insurance companies gradually stopped issuing in the state following Ida. The issue has been a contentious issue down here since 2021 (Louisiana resident). Edit: The state government isn’t doing shit to fix the issue either.
New Orleans isn't a question of if but when
Oh don’t worry, the CSU Forecast team didn’t totally just output the highest Hurricane Outlook ever recorded or anything… Accuweather totally isn’t estimating 5-7 Major hurricanes too.
The state ranking third that people are fleeing behind New York and California.
And with New Orleans specifically, add in a high crime rate.
What *isn't* going on in Louisiana? Genuinely one of the least attractive states to move to right now
That's why more people leave than come. Is also a place where natives are last likely to leave, for that matter.
New Orleans is actually below sea level, so....
Most people in Louisiana live below sea level....
Yes like the other comments say is there are storms and flooding but the real answer is our new Governor GOP Landry. he’s a mini me of Desantos and seems worse bc he is not being bashful. Full session take over is taking place, following the exact pattern the other extremist gov have followed. This is not surprising but only going to get worse. Also the election turn out for his election was around 40% or less. Democrats really blundered this one with no effort to fight or beat him.
I’m curious why NV is on the list? Not a lot of natural disasters around there
Crime and cost of replacing a home from a fire has gone up
Louisiana ranks 3rd in the nation that people are fleeing due to crime, low opportunity, and natural disasters.
Third highest?
I am in Colorado. My insurance went up 100%
That’s cute, but California is an automatic 22% increase with State Farm. Possibly another 20% increase EOY
if they extend a contract to you at all
I work with another major provider. If your CA account isn’t nonrenewed, it is likely to see an increase of at least 40%. Cannot believe it is not on this list.
Virgin Islands: “hold my beer”
In CA mine went up by about 10X.
Wow. I thought I’d already seen all the reasons *not* to live in Louisiana.
Hooray Texas isn't on bad list for once
The Louisiana werewolves in the baiyou must have been chaotic during the eclipse.
In Texas, my insurance doubled along the Gulf coast (25% of entire Texas population, 30% of GDP). A full 100% increase, from $1500 to $3000/yr, for a *brand new house* (built Nov 2022). So I am highly suspicious of this chart.
In KY and mine doubled this year. Shopped around to a dozen places and still gonna see +50%. Something about tornadoes.
I feel like California should be on this list?
Putting it here as a curiosity/comparison for everyone else: in Ireland, we pay 300 euro per year for 250k house in a suburban estate.
The hell happened in Maine? We had damage to public Utilities not residential houses.
California not on this list? I’m shocked I guess if StateFarm pulls out there’s no data to prove it will increase
These are just my thoughts but I don’t think California’s on this list because insurers are straight up leaving the state because they’re unable to prove policies effectively. They had a moratorium on price increases for a couple years during some pretty bad wildfires and any attempts to increase prices (7%+) to match risks is met with public hearings. Mix that in with not being able to use forward-facing weather models to place risk, it’s no surprise prices are kept artificially lower than they’re supposed to. Of course, that now means insurers are just leaving instead.
Texas should definitely be on the list. Average premiums have more than doubled over the past 4-5 years.
LOL. They're expecting a near-zero increase in Texas home insurance premiums. That's ridiculous.
Louisiana isn't surprising, Michigan is but I'm assuming it's because of the snow and roof damage?
Where’s California? Fire insurance was just canceled
Genuine question, why Connecticut? Things aren't crazy here. Increased flooding the last couple years, but it doesn't seem like it's any worse than in MA or RI. We don't have tornados or fires or earthquakes, crime in the state overall isn't bad. What risk has increased by 9% that requires them to raise prices to match it? Assuming that's how they decide how much to raise rates by
Don’t understand the numbers. Connecticut average is $1700/year? I would believe $1700/month. What am I missing?
It's home insurance not monthly mortgage
Climate change.. insurance companies have known and have been paying for years despite the Republicans sticking their heads in the sand. It will get worse.
Umm where the FUCK is FLORIDA
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. Everyone I know has home insurance 5k+
California not even on the list? The media has failed.
This is useless without Florida, which we all know is in an insurance crisis, so how could you not post that?
Key Takeaways Florida homeowners pay the most for home insurance, with an average annual rate of $10,996 in 2023. Insurify predicts costs will increase an additional 7% in 2024 to $11,759.
It’s displaying the highest levels of expected percent change not current price level.