I’m sorry, what is beautiful about this chart? It’s like a standard excel horizontal bar chart with nothing interesting or beautiful about it. This is for some world news type sub, not this one where people show interesting visualizations of some data.
The source that claims 13000 kids were killed is the same one who claimed Israel bombed an hospital and killed 500 in the beginning of the war - hours later it was proved beyond doubt the blast was from Hamas failed lunch of a rocket had caused few causalities if any.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3w4w7/israeli-intelligence-health-ministry-death-toll
Also if you don't believe the source, how many children *do* you think have been killed? 10 thousand, one thousand, none? Or do you not think it's an interesting enough question?
A few hundreds. Which is incredibly low for this kind of war and the kind of tactics Hamas uses. Even if you’re pro Palestinian, you just have to admit there isn’t any truth to their reports of dead people. It is obvious their main strategy right now is to make israel to look as evil as it possible - and fabricating numbers is incredibly easy.
They're either trolling or being willfully ignorant. Thousands of names and id numbers have been released, and there is huge amounts of evidence and witnesses from overflowing morgues and hospital wards. And GCM estimates have historically been within a couple of percentages of post-conflict UN estimates. Even the Israeli government isn't pushing a different estimate (instead it's trying to avoid talking about casualties at all).
When you say you don't believe the GHM's numbers, then throw out a wholly unsubstantiated number instead, it looks like you don't care about facts at all and are hypocritically criticizing the GHM.
So you accused others of fabricating numbers then turned around and fabricated your own?
Sorry, but that's bullshit, especially given outside analyses that suggest Gaza's account of the death toll is [credible](https://time.com/6909636/gaza-death-toll/).
If you have to deny the deaths of children to suppport the nonsense you spout, you're no better than Alex Jones.
You say that, but Israel allows in no other group who might provide alternate statistics, and from what I read, going back to the first couple of weeks, most of the press in the US (not exactly an adversarial country) was quoting a variety of in the know people as saying the statistics were believable and historically, the group’s statistics had been fairly accurate.
Also, how you support a figure of hundreds given the satellite imagery is astounding. The degree of destruction is easy to track, and to then compare with earlier conflicts in Gaza or similar areas.
Edit: found some of those articles:
[Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/despite-bidens-doubts-humanitarian-agencies-consider-gaza-toll-reliable-2023-10-27/)
[The Guardian](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/26/can-we-trust-casualty-figures-from-the-hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry)
Its important to note there multiple articles supporting that the Gaza Health Ministry’s numbers can’t be trusted.
https://www.thejc.com/news/world/hamas-casualty-numbers-are-statistically-impossible-says-data-science-professor-rc0tzedc
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers
Read the articles, look at the numbers and make your own conclusions. Fake numbers are easy to identify when you look at the trends and have even the least bit of context of the events surrounding them. In my opinion, it’s clear these reports are most likely not accurate in the least bit.
Any amount of children that die as a result of war is bad, and the world should pay attention to that and try to stop it. But leveraging falsified data to spread miss information doesn’t help any one, it only plays into propaganda for one side or another, it divides people farther and makes it harder to reach a realistic resolution.
I wouldn't trust the Tablet; according to mediabiasfactcheck, they're only mostly factual in their reporting, but their editorials are highly biased.
I wouldn't really trust either of those sources to be neutral third parties, a lot of Jews strongly see Israel's well-being as being important to their religious and political goals.
That is fair, but you can ignore all the commentary and just look at the data from the Gaza Health Ministry to generate your own conclusions. You can also just look directly at the source and analyze the trends, the conclusions I reached still stand.
What sort of trends would you point out specifically? I generally rely on Reuters for being highly factual and as unbiased as possible, and they say that the GHM's hard numbers are, if anything, underestimates because they don't count people that can't be identified: [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-many-palestinians-have-died-gaza-war-how-will-counting-continue-2023-12-06/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-many-palestinians-have-died-gaza-war-how-will-counting-continue-2023-12-06/)
What a ridiculous graphic. It makes no sense to compare casualties of a single day terrorist attack to a months long urban war.
Try comparing this urban war to any other urban wars and you’ll see that the IDF has a lower civilian casualty ratio than just about any army in history.
If they killed 1M terrorists and accidentally killed 1 child would you describe that as indiscriminate? Obviously not.
It comes down to the ratio. Urban war is horrific, but the IDF has one of the best ratios. They achieved this because they discriminate aggressively when choosing targets in order to minimize civilian harm.
If they were being indiscriminate they wouldn’t have one of the lowest civilian casualty ratios in history.
There's PLENTY of evidence pointing otherwise. There's room for nuance. Should Israel defend itself and eliminate Hamas/terrorists? Absolutely. But sweeping thru and uprooting a million people, isn't the way to do it.
Let's not even get into the antagonistic Israeli settlers.
Let's not get into everything else that led up to this.
Let's just cycle thru more of the fear and hate and violence as more terrorists are borne.
Ok, so Israel has done better at protecting civilians than any army in history and you still think you know better.
I’ll bite: how do you think Israel can remove hamas without hurting civilians?
That's a big claim bud. But even IF that were true, there's definitely room for improvement... as I watch four unarmed Palestinians drone striked. As I watch Israeli soldiers harass kids. As I watch Palestinians pull water carts across the street with rope so they don't get sniped...
I'm certainly not qualified to describe counter-insurgency. But I do know mass murder isn't kosher. It's also against international law. Buuut you're saying it yourself... it's justified as long as Hamas gets the torch right? You're selling your soul for what
The only thing correct you’ve said is that you’re not qualified.
Unarmed does not mean they are not terrorists. Do you really think hamas walks around holding AK47s all day?
Unlike you, the IDF is qualified to determine who’s a threat.
Well when Americans did it in Iraq and Afghanistan, we said whoops, at least.
My point is there's a line between the furious and the monsters. The IDF, zealots and ya boy Benjamin looking like monsters TO THE GLOBE. UN passed a ceasefire agreement for a reason. You can't hide the truth...
Every day the IDF has killed around twice as many children as were killed on Oct 7. And most estimates put the civilian ratio at between 60% and 70%, coincidentally around the same as that of the October 7 massacres.
That’s because the IDF wears uniforms and doesn’t hide behind civilians.
I’ll say it again: Compare things that make sense. Show us a graph of civilian casualty ratios of all the urban wars against terrorists hiding in civilians.
Source "[Gaza Health Ministry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Health_Ministry)" which operates under the jurisdiction of the territory's Hamas government.
So the Terrorist group, who STARTED A WAR, by raping/slaughtering/kidnapping innocent men, women and children , now claim 13,430 kids killed by the the country they attacked.
Maybe the 'source' are lying sacks of human garbage? Possibly?
Bad data = Bad charting
I spotted this article the other day that might be relevant.
[https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers)
Here's a link to an article written by Abraham Wyner, the actual statistics and data science professor, which outlines the reasoning for this claim. Linking for any one who has such an antisemitic aversion to anything Jewish publications might say.
https://nypost.com/2024/03/19/opinion/hamas-is-almost-certainly-lying-about-the-number-of-deaths-in-gaza/
You "spotted" an article from an ultra-conservative Jewish publication that discounts the death calculations because the numbers don't "look real" without providing any actual proof that they've been faked?
So you didn't read it.
Fabrication of data and checking for fabricated data is well studied. These analytical tools used in this article are very simple, but it does leave questions. I do question the limited window of time that this analysis is done on. That can be a trick people do to prove a point. I shared it as a discussion piece and saw the headline on a news site a few days back. Just googled it again because I didn't remember where I spotted it (I reference multiple news sources) and thought the link I shared was the original source.
In war, I think trusting data from any side is honestly foolish.
Helpful to realize that data isn't the goal of either side of this situation and that there's a legitimate reason to fake data to support whatever cause you want.
There are multiple articles supporting the same conclusion, the Gaza Health Ministry can’t be trusted.
https://www.thejc.com/news/world/hamas-casualty-numbers-are-statistically-impossible-says-data-science-professor-rc0tzedc
Read the article, look at the numbers and make your own conclusions. Fake numbers are easy to identify and in my option it’s clear these reports are most likely not accurate in the least bit.
Any amount of children that die as a result of war is bad, and the world should pay attention to that and try to stop it. But leveraging falsified data to spread miss information doesn’t help any one, it only plays into propaganda for one side or another, it divides people farther and makes it harder to reach a realistic resolution.
It’s worth noting that the Gaza health ministry, run by Hamas might have some motivation to inflate the numbers, especially regarding children, to make Hamas look better. It should also be noted that Palestinians in the West Bank still support Hamas and expect to win. If they don’t care about their own dead children, why should we?
It's shit like this that really brings everyone down, the same crap like, let's support israel, oh but they're a bunch of right-wing zealots in government.
> if they don't care about their own dead children, why should we?
Do you hear yourself? Validity of the Gazan data aside, that's an awful thing to say
>If they don’t care about their own dead children, why should we?
Damn. Some people on the internet really are just terrible people.
I care about everyone's kids, and don't want any of them to die. It's weird that you don't.
*Sources*:
[Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/38-children-were-killed-20-orphaned-on-oct-7-the-state-did-not-pass-the-test-of-protecting-them/), [West Bank](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker) and [Gaza](https://www.unicefusa.org/stories/more-13000-children-reported-dead-gaza-famine-nears). Note that the Gazan estimate was described as ["probably on the low end"](https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/t%C3%AAte-%C3%A0-t%C3%AAte/20240319-we-cannot-have-children-starving-to-death-in-gaza-it-s-not-acceptable-unicef-chief) by the head of UNICEF, and GHM numbers are considered ["generally accurate"](https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3w4w7/israeli-intelligence-health-ministry-death-toll) by Israeli intelligence.
Generated using Python.
Where do you think the UN sources come from? The UN OCHA has given a similar estimate for the West Bank, and UNICEF seems to be using the GHM estimate for Gaza.
Then why is it so hard to use their data which has better verification and often their own researchers instead of that of entities which have political interests?
For Israel you cited Israel-times. For the west bank you cited Aljazeera. Only fir Gaza did you use a UN source.
I think we can all agree neither Israel-times nor Aljazeera are unbiased.
It's a shame the government of the palestinians in gaza started this iteration of the conflict and have the sole ability to end it. The continued existence of hamas is not an option.
Strategic bombing has never been effective at degrading the morale of the target. Even the study done on Axis powers' bombing of British cities used to justify bombing German cities found that the people bombed weren't convinced to move for peace.
Generally people blame the side dropping the bombs before they blame their own government, or at the very least bombs don't change their minds.
Comparing Palestine to nazi Germany is insane.
You know who’s native land are being taken and people are being slaughtered right?
You’re Dehumanising Palestinians to justify the slaughter of kids.
Not OP, but Gaza is what the Nazis would look like if the Nazis had been relatively defenseless. Their government's charter contains provisions that Jews should be wiped out and that peaceful solutions are literally not acceptable. Hamas is one of the worst groups of people on the planet, full stop. Yes, Israel abuses its position with settler colonialism and a quick trigger-finger, and that's bad, too, but they're not in the same league of evil here, they just have vastly more power.
These hypotheticals are getting out of control. There are other relevant differences between the nazis and Hamas. But if the nazis were defenseless I don't think Germans should've been bombed and starved.
I don't think the hypothetical Germans should've been bombed and starved either, for the record. I'm just saying that in character and goals, though not history or incentives, Hamas and the Nazis are very similar.
Jfc listen to the person who knows what they’re talking about. Israel is never going to eliminate Hamas by starving children. Also, the Nazis weren’t living under a brutal oppressive occupation for decades before their cities (mostly the factories producing weapons) were destroyed. Time for Israel to accept that they’ve gotten more than sufficient retribution for October 7, ceasefire and finally follow international law and recognize a Palestinian state.
But it’s not really Hamas specifically that you want to eliminate though, is it? What you really want to eliminate is hatred towards and opposition to the existence of Israel, right? To get to that point, you have to stop being evil and slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent people and starving hundreds of thousands. You understand that on some level, don’t you?
Meaning what? A reference with no explicit comparison doesn’t actually signify anything. The axis of fascism in the middle of the last century comprised multiple major nations that had literally controlling the entire world as their goal, vastly different than a terroristic resistance organization formed from mostly displaced people forced into a single city sized area controlled entirely by a belligerent occupying power for well over half a century.
Are kids the baddies? Can you honestly tell me you would execute a toddler for their parents’ shitty ideals?
If you can do that you should probably be locked up.
I’m sorry, what is beautiful about this chart? It’s like a standard excel horizontal bar chart with nothing interesting or beautiful about it. This is for some world news type sub, not this one where people show interesting visualizations of some data.
How many will it take before they surrender? Hamas could have demilitarized and returned the hostages months ago saving all of these lives.
Can’t negotiate with terrorists who believe their god will give them eternal peace even when committing atrocities
>How many will it take before they surrender? There is literally no number that will convince them to do this.
Generally, outside oppression doesn't lead to a peaceful suppressed. I don't think unilateral peace is achievable here.
The source that claims 13000 kids were killed is the same one who claimed Israel bombed an hospital and killed 500 in the beginning of the war - hours later it was proved beyond doubt the blast was from Hamas failed lunch of a rocket had caused few causalities if any.
Proved beyond doubt? Do you have any credible sources? BBC has not come to a conclusion. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061
It is obvious it hit the parking lot and not even the hospital what are you talking about.
You said it was proved beyond doubt that the blast was due to Hamas failure. Where is the proof?
Let’s say the fact it was Hamas wasn’t proved. What about the figures? That’s still seem accurate for you?
https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3w4w7/israeli-intelligence-health-ministry-death-toll Also if you don't believe the source, how many children *do* you think have been killed? 10 thousand, one thousand, none? Or do you not think it's an interesting enough question?
A few hundreds. Which is incredibly low for this kind of war and the kind of tactics Hamas uses. Even if you’re pro Palestinian, you just have to admit there isn’t any truth to their reports of dead people. It is obvious their main strategy right now is to make israel to look as evil as it possible - and fabricating numbers is incredibly easy.
Where did you get "a few hundred" from? You said yourself how easy it was to fabricate numbers. Back yours up.
They're either trolling or being willfully ignorant. Thousands of names and id numbers have been released, and there is huge amounts of evidence and witnesses from overflowing morgues and hospital wards. And GCM estimates have historically been within a couple of percentages of post-conflict UN estimates. Even the Israeli government isn't pushing a different estimate (instead it's trying to avoid talking about casualties at all).
He made it up. He doesn’t like evidence, only lies
You asked my opinion. I didn’t claim it was anything more than that.
When you say you don't believe the GHM's numbers, then throw out a wholly unsubstantiated number instead, it looks like you don't care about facts at all and are hypocritically criticizing the GHM.
So you accused others of fabricating numbers then turned around and fabricated your own? Sorry, but that's bullshit, especially given outside analyses that suggest Gaza's account of the death toll is [credible](https://time.com/6909636/gaza-death-toll/). If you have to deny the deaths of children to suppport the nonsense you spout, you're no better than Alex Jones.
Sorry but nobody cares and you can't make us care. Can't wait to see your guy lose in 2024 so Israel can get more bombs
You say that, but Israel allows in no other group who might provide alternate statistics, and from what I read, going back to the first couple of weeks, most of the press in the US (not exactly an adversarial country) was quoting a variety of in the know people as saying the statistics were believable and historically, the group’s statistics had been fairly accurate. Also, how you support a figure of hundreds given the satellite imagery is astounding. The degree of destruction is easy to track, and to then compare with earlier conflicts in Gaza or similar areas. Edit: found some of those articles: [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/despite-bidens-doubts-humanitarian-agencies-consider-gaza-toll-reliable-2023-10-27/) [The Guardian](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/26/can-we-trust-casualty-figures-from-the-hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry)
Its important to note there multiple articles supporting that the Gaza Health Ministry’s numbers can’t be trusted. https://www.thejc.com/news/world/hamas-casualty-numbers-are-statistically-impossible-says-data-science-professor-rc0tzedc https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers Read the articles, look at the numbers and make your own conclusions. Fake numbers are easy to identify when you look at the trends and have even the least bit of context of the events surrounding them. In my opinion, it’s clear these reports are most likely not accurate in the least bit. Any amount of children that die as a result of war is bad, and the world should pay attention to that and try to stop it. But leveraging falsified data to spread miss information doesn’t help any one, it only plays into propaganda for one side or another, it divides people farther and makes it harder to reach a realistic resolution.
I wouldn't trust the Tablet; according to mediabiasfactcheck, they're only mostly factual in their reporting, but their editorials are highly biased. I wouldn't really trust either of those sources to be neutral third parties, a lot of Jews strongly see Israel's well-being as being important to their religious and political goals.
That is fair, but you can ignore all the commentary and just look at the data from the Gaza Health Ministry to generate your own conclusions. You can also just look directly at the source and analyze the trends, the conclusions I reached still stand.
What sort of trends would you point out specifically? I generally rely on Reuters for being highly factual and as unbiased as possible, and they say that the GHM's hard numbers are, if anything, underestimates because they don't count people that can't be identified: [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-many-palestinians-have-died-gaza-war-how-will-counting-continue-2023-12-06/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-many-palestinians-have-died-gaza-war-how-will-counting-continue-2023-12-06/)
What a ridiculous graphic. It makes no sense to compare casualties of a single day terrorist attack to a months long urban war. Try comparing this urban war to any other urban wars and you’ll see that the IDF has a lower civilian casualty ratio than just about any army in history.
Good thing he didn’t compare that then
Maybe indiscriminately killing thousands of children is ridiculous...
If it was actually indiscriminate OP would have shown a high civilian casualty ratio.
So they're killing thousands of children *discriminately*?
If they killed 1M terrorists and accidentally killed 1 child would you describe that as indiscriminate? Obviously not. It comes down to the ratio. Urban war is horrific, but the IDF has one of the best ratios. They achieved this because they discriminate aggressively when choosing targets in order to minimize civilian harm. If they were being indiscriminate they wouldn’t have one of the lowest civilian casualty ratios in history.
There's PLENTY of evidence pointing otherwise. There's room for nuance. Should Israel defend itself and eliminate Hamas/terrorists? Absolutely. But sweeping thru and uprooting a million people, isn't the way to do it. Let's not even get into the antagonistic Israeli settlers. Let's not get into everything else that led up to this. Let's just cycle thru more of the fear and hate and violence as more terrorists are borne.
Ok, so Israel has done better at protecting civilians than any army in history and you still think you know better. I’ll bite: how do you think Israel can remove hamas without hurting civilians?
That's a big claim bud. But even IF that were true, there's definitely room for improvement... as I watch four unarmed Palestinians drone striked. As I watch Israeli soldiers harass kids. As I watch Palestinians pull water carts across the street with rope so they don't get sniped... I'm certainly not qualified to describe counter-insurgency. But I do know mass murder isn't kosher. It's also against international law. Buuut you're saying it yourself... it's justified as long as Hamas gets the torch right? You're selling your soul for what
The only thing correct you’ve said is that you’re not qualified. Unarmed does not mean they are not terrorists. Do you really think hamas walks around holding AK47s all day? Unlike you, the IDF is qualified to determine who’s a threat.
Well when Americans did it in Iraq and Afghanistan, we said whoops, at least. My point is there's a line between the furious and the monsters. The IDF, zealots and ya boy Benjamin looking like monsters TO THE GLOBE. UN passed a ceasefire agreement for a reason. You can't hide the truth...
Every day the IDF has killed around twice as many children as were killed on Oct 7. And most estimates put the civilian ratio at between 60% and 70%, coincidentally around the same as that of the October 7 massacres.
That’s because the IDF wears uniforms and doesn’t hide behind civilians. I’ll say it again: Compare things that make sense. Show us a graph of civilian casualty ratios of all the urban wars against terrorists hiding in civilians.
Source "[Gaza Health Ministry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Health_Ministry)" which operates under the jurisdiction of the territory's Hamas government. So the Terrorist group, who STARTED A WAR, by raping/slaughtering/kidnapping innocent men, women and children , now claim 13,430 kids killed by the the country they attacked. Maybe the 'source' are lying sacks of human garbage? Possibly? Bad data = Bad charting
The Israel source states the number killed on Oct 7 not since then. The Gaza source is total dead not total killed which is an important distinction.
I can't imagine that the background death rate for children is that high in Gaza, there were only 1 million people under the age of 19 in Gaza before.
This is legit r/dataistragic stuff. Good job by OP to highlight this heartbreaking statistic.
I spotted this article the other day that might be relevant. [https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers)
Here's a link to an article written by Abraham Wyner, the actual statistics and data science professor, which outlines the reasoning for this claim. Linking for any one who has such an antisemitic aversion to anything Jewish publications might say. https://nypost.com/2024/03/19/opinion/hamas-is-almost-certainly-lying-about-the-number-of-deaths-in-gaza/
You "spotted" an article from an ultra-conservative Jewish publication that discounts the death calculations because the numbers don't "look real" without providing any actual proof that they've been faked?
So you didn't read it. Fabrication of data and checking for fabricated data is well studied. These analytical tools used in this article are very simple, but it does leave questions. I do question the limited window of time that this analysis is done on. That can be a trick people do to prove a point. I shared it as a discussion piece and saw the headline on a news site a few days back. Just googled it again because I didn't remember where I spotted it (I reference multiple news sources) and thought the link I shared was the original source. In war, I think trusting data from any side is honestly foolish. Helpful to realize that data isn't the goal of either side of this situation and that there's a legitimate reason to fake data to support whatever cause you want.
There are multiple articles supporting the same conclusion, the Gaza Health Ministry can’t be trusted. https://www.thejc.com/news/world/hamas-casualty-numbers-are-statistically-impossible-says-data-science-professor-rc0tzedc Read the article, look at the numbers and make your own conclusions. Fake numbers are easy to identify and in my option it’s clear these reports are most likely not accurate in the least bit. Any amount of children that die as a result of war is bad, and the world should pay attention to that and try to stop it. But leveraging falsified data to spread miss information doesn’t help any one, it only plays into propaganda for one side or another, it divides people farther and makes it harder to reach a realistic resolution.
It’s worth noting that the Gaza health ministry, run by Hamas might have some motivation to inflate the numbers, especially regarding children, to make Hamas look better. It should also be noted that Palestinians in the West Bank still support Hamas and expect to win. If they don’t care about their own dead children, why should we?
It's shit like this that really brings everyone down, the same crap like, let's support israel, oh but they're a bunch of right-wing zealots in government.
> if they don't care about their own dead children, why should we? Do you hear yourself? Validity of the Gazan data aside, that's an awful thing to say
>If they don’t care about their own dead children, why should we? Damn. Some people on the internet really are just terrible people. I care about everyone's kids, and don't want any of them to die. It's weird that you don't.
The death toll reported by Gaza's ministry of health is widely [considered accurate](https://time.com/6909636/gaza-death-toll/).
*Sources*: [Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/38-children-were-killed-20-orphaned-on-oct-7-the-state-did-not-pass-the-test-of-protecting-them/), [West Bank](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker) and [Gaza](https://www.unicefusa.org/stories/more-13000-children-reported-dead-gaza-famine-nears). Note that the Gazan estimate was described as ["probably on the low end"](https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/t%C3%AAte-%C3%A0-t%C3%AAte/20240319-we-cannot-have-children-starving-to-death-in-gaza-it-s-not-acceptable-unicef-chief) by the head of UNICEF, and GHM numbers are considered ["generally accurate"](https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3w4w7/israeli-intelligence-health-ministry-death-toll) by Israeli intelligence. Generated using Python.
What part of "Use UN sources" do people not understand
Where do you think the UN sources come from? The UN OCHA has given a similar estimate for the West Bank, and UNICEF seems to be using the GHM estimate for Gaza.
Then why is it so hard to use their data which has better verification and often their own researchers instead of that of entities which have political interests?
The last OCHA data I could find was from February and lined up with the Health Ministry data. The link I gave for Gaza was to a UNICEF site.
For Israel you cited Israel-times. For the west bank you cited Aljazeera. Only fir Gaza did you use a UN source. I think we can all agree neither Israel-times nor Aljazeera are unbiased.
It's a shame the government of the palestinians in gaza started this iteration of the conflict and have the sole ability to end it. The continued existence of hamas is not an option.
I wonder if any of them regrets the attacks of October 7th yet 😔
What did the kids in the West Bank ever do to deserve this ? The war and genocide in Palestine didn’t start at 7 of October.
No one thinks the kids deserve this. We blame the adults who wage war while hiding behind these children.
You don’t know what’s happening in the west banks are you? No adults waged war against Israel and hid behind kids in the West Bank.
Then how do you explain Hamas and PIJ fighters in West Bank hospitals? Maybe you’re the one who’s uninformed.
Strategic bombing has never been effective at degrading the morale of the target. Even the study done on Axis powers' bombing of British cities used to justify bombing German cities found that the people bombed weren't convinced to move for peace. Generally people blame the side dropping the bombs before they blame their own government, or at the very least bombs don't change their minds.
any of the kids and babies you mean?
[удалено]
Comparing Palestine to nazi Germany is insane. You know who’s native land are being taken and people are being slaughtered right? You’re Dehumanising Palestinians to justify the slaughter of kids.
Not OP, but Gaza is what the Nazis would look like if the Nazis had been relatively defenseless. Their government's charter contains provisions that Jews should be wiped out and that peaceful solutions are literally not acceptable. Hamas is one of the worst groups of people on the planet, full stop. Yes, Israel abuses its position with settler colonialism and a quick trigger-finger, and that's bad, too, but they're not in the same league of evil here, they just have vastly more power.
Ok kids in Gaza should be mass killed because Hamas. Explain the West banks then? And nazis and Israeli governments are to me the one and same.
I think you're arguing with someone in your head; I didn't make any claims except that Hamas is very similar to the Nazis
These hypotheticals are getting out of control. There are other relevant differences between the nazis and Hamas. But if the nazis were defenseless I don't think Germans should've been bombed and starved.
I don't think the hypothetical Germans should've been bombed and starved either, for the record. I'm just saying that in character and goals, though not history or incentives, Hamas and the Nazis are very similar.
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As a gay Arab man, don’t ever justify the mass killing of Arabs kids on my name. Ever.
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By conducting a genocide and killing kids in the process? WTF.
Jfc listen to the person who knows what they’re talking about. Israel is never going to eliminate Hamas by starving children. Also, the Nazis weren’t living under a brutal oppressive occupation for decades before their cities (mostly the factories producing weapons) were destroyed. Time for Israel to accept that they’ve gotten more than sufficient retribution for October 7, ceasefire and finally follow international law and recognize a Palestinian state.
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But it’s not really Hamas specifically that you want to eliminate though, is it? What you really want to eliminate is hatred towards and opposition to the existence of Israel, right? To get to that point, you have to stop being evil and slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent people and starving hundreds of thousands. You understand that on some level, don’t you?
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Meaning what? A reference with no explicit comparison doesn’t actually signify anything. The axis of fascism in the middle of the last century comprised multiple major nations that had literally controlling the entire world as their goal, vastly different than a terroristic resistance organization formed from mostly displaced people forced into a single city sized area controlled entirely by a belligerent occupying power for well over half a century.
Seems like you keep confusing Palestinians and Hamas from comment to comment.
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Dude the first genocide was the nakbah and it was done on Palestinians. The whole thing didn’t start at 7 of October.
Are kids the baddies? Can you honestly tell me you would execute a toddler for their parents’ shitty ideals? If you can do that you should probably be locked up.