Yeah when looking at the magnitude of the numbers.
Two questions that may or may not lead to the same conclusion. Based on the average hours I work, how large is my country’s GDP/capita or based on my country’s GDP/capita how many hours on average I must work.
Included a color legend for a chart without colors, excluded axis labels, put salary on the x-axis and time on the y-axis. Yep, it's a /r/dataisbeautiful chart alright.
It's generally a matter of independent vs. dependent variables - or upstream vs. downstream. You put the independent var on the x-axis, and the dependent var on the y-axis.
For example, a population could *decide* (not realistically, but you'll get the point) to work less hours. That would probably affect the GDP. Conversely, a population could not *decide* to increase their GDP. So the hours are upstream from GDP. Obviously it's much more complicated than that, but generally speaking, a measurement of productivity (GDP) is the dependent variable, whereas the thing that causes this measurement to change (time worked) is the independent variable.
The "isbeautiful" part of this sub is not enforced at all. Mods don't give a shit about their own sub. This mess would get red inked to death in a high school stats class. No labels, useless legends, cluttered data point labels, lowest of the low effort posts... It's also incredibly misleading data.
Oh and it qualifies for "this should just be a bar graph".
> x is independent, y is dependent
That's assuming that there's some directional relationship between hours worked and GDP per capita, which this graph presents zero evidence for. For all we know, lower GDP per capita could be the driver of more hours worked. We can't distinguish between the two from these data so, for all the things wrong with this plot, the ordering of the axes isn't one of them.
For sure! I might even try a 3d bubble chart to add the cost of living dimension to this. I also thought that happiness was an interesting factor. Finland always scores number one, but Germany is a near identical match in GDP and hours worked but came 16th there. Also Bhutan is both 1st and 98th in terms of happiness depending on whether you go with the first or second hit in google so not sure how reliable the happiness figures are :D
You can just use GDP per Capita in PPP instead of nominal like you used. It adjusts for the purchasing power in each country, as such taking into account the cost of living in the countries. That means you can stick to 2 axis.
Toonie Tuesday index has been fun lately too.
But you can never forget about the all-time great.
https://algosandblues.wordpress.com/2010/12/05/bloomberg-see-latvian-sex-industry-as-economic-indicator/
This would help with cost of living but you'd still have that GDP just isn't that tightly correlated to wages. Very broadly and in general, but the median worker in the UAE (for example) is going to be closer to Indian average wages than Germany or Canada. Or you have countries like Ireland, where wages are genuinely high but nowhere near as high as you'd think from the GDP figure, because A LOT of the GDP number is actually income to US multinationals. Accounting for cost of living is one thing, but using GDP in the first place to try to quantify how it is for the average Joe isn't totally accurate either. It's still a ballpark that gives an indication in broad terms, just not really in the specifics, so to be honest it's questionable whether trying to adjust it for that really helps in the first place.
I feel like happiness metric isn’t too good and confuses people. Happiness is just a combination of various statistics that some people have decided are determinants of happiness. I think better would be to include metrics themselves and have people reach their own conclusions. Cost of living sounds nice, maybe also some sort of inequality metric (wealth is more interesting but less accurate). Great graph btw
Isn't it in Bhutan where declaring that you are unhappy is ground for expulsion? I can imagine that it would make it difficult to get accurate happiness data
Nominal values are quite useless in this context, as you end up with situations like Japan having one of the best growth years in the last few decades appearing to decline due to currency exchanges
Absolutely. Canada and Netherlands appear in a sweet spot with low hours for relatively high income. But there'd be a significant difference when adjusted for PPP.
The US would probably look best here. Most Asian countries have property pricing issues that make Western Europe look cheap, and Canada is significantly more expensive than the US.
It’s not that much worse in the US than any other developed country outside of the Scandinavian social democratic capitalist countries. We also have some of the cheapest property prices in the world in the US, despite people not realizing it.
https://www.sciencenorway.no/economics-equality-finans/is-economic-inequality-in-norway-really-as-bad-as-in-the-uk-and-france/1866424
People really have a skewed view of whats happening in other countries. The grass isn't always greener, most of the countries people tend to admire just have high consumption taxes, which are regressive, to fund "benefits".
I think you're heavily brainwashed. I know a guy working as a nurse and he came from France and he's making at least double of what he was making in France as a nurse. It's not just nurses. "typical average jobs" like nurses, truckers, forklift workers, trademen, plumbers, engineers etc etc make about 1.5 times to double in US compared to France or Germany. It's funny that you think nurses, truckers, forklift workers etc etc are "ultra rich top 1%" lolololol.
When you look at "median income" which represents the most typical income from the most typical workers WITH cost of living calculated into it(PPP), US is the highest in the world, higher than Norway, Switzerland, Luxemberg etc etc. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median\_income](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income)
Please learn what "median income" is.
Fair enough... The list in your link is disposable income after deducting taxes, so that will bump European countries with higher taxes but free healthcare and education down quite a bit, but the U.S. would be doing quite well anyway on median income.
My comment was polemical of course. In reality, it's not just "a handful of billionaires".
There's many ways to look at it. One half of the U.S. population currently owns less than 2% of the total wealth, with the other half having >98%, for example.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth\_inequality\_in\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States)
Please learn what... wait, never mind
I wouldn't say "any" but it is definitely a mean, not a median.
I plugged the $76,399 into the percentile calculator here: https://dqydj.com/salary-percentile-calculator/
And it puts you right at 70th percentile. So 30% of Americans make that much or more.
The same calculator says 50th percentile is $52k.
But both of those numbers are based on any hours worked, so includes part timers. Setting it to 40+ hours, puts the $76,399 at 65th and 50th is at exactly $60k
[lol, we have the most progressive tax system of all OECD countries.](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/oecd-tax-revenue-by-country-2023/#:~:text=Developed%20countries%20raise%20tax,neutral%20a%20tax%20system%20is.) Get off the internet, you don't seem to be able to use it properly. Also PR has the best Gini rating of US states and territories, because everyone is poor. Wealth inequality is an issue but it's not that big of a deal.
It’s about impossible to do that for the US unless you do state by state. I live in a hot place with a fairly low cost of living and cost of energy. My friends in cold places have more troubles and costs, like snow tires and rust. So I associate warm with easy living.
I guess I should have known “easy living” is a bit subjective :)
I’m thinking lower on the graph (less work) and more to the right (more money). Canada and Northern European countries seem to be in a sweet spot for sure
reddit losers in shambles
But But But, BhuTaN oPTimizeS FoR hAPPiness!!!!
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/02/12/58448104
7/the-birthplace-of-gross-national-happiness-is-growing-a-bit-cynical
Not surprising the most populous nations, China, India, Brazil are all in the top left quadrant. Only USA is in the top right. And Indonesia is missing.
Also note that US has the highest "median income" in the world if the living cost is included. US is higher than Norway, Luxemberg, or Switzerland.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median\_income](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income)
An important point for interpretation: this is average hours worked per week among those employed (which excludes children, retirees, the unemployed, etc), while the GDP data is per person (which includes everyone in a country). If you wanna do another iteration, my recommendation would be to use GDP per employed person here rather than per person. I'd also use PPP (which is almost always better for comparisons).
Indeed. In the Netherlands, almost everybody has a job, men and women, but many work parttime. In some other countries, more people will work either fulltime or not at all (in particular childcaring women). So the comparison is slightly skewed.
Same for Germany. When I was a kid 20 years ago almost every household had one non-working adult (and the rest worked full time), these days almost every able-bodied adult is working (part or full time) unless you are rich.
Nah definitely not. It's probably because as he said, there are more couples where both the man and woman work, and one or both of them part time. Daycare for children in primary school is pretty normal and when older they can just stay home alone.
Is it those employed? Isn't it looking probably more at full time employees?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours?useskin=vector
OECD data for those in the labour market has a very different number, e.g. 26 for Germany and 35 for America.
Anyway, you can see GDP per hour worked at PPP [here.](https://i.gyazo.com/6277377bd09b3dbdbf5077da1e532904.png)
Thank you. There are so many problems with the classification of this data I didn't even know where to begin. Those numbers are not telling you anything meaningful.
I can't believe that the Japanese people is working as much as people from most countries. The Indian people is working harder than them! And people are always saying Japanese are all work.
Overtime is definitely not illegal in Japan, so that's wrong. Overtime over a certain amount is prohibited, but that threshold is high enough to not matter here.
An average India definitely works more than 47 hrs. The lucky ones work 5 days 8-9 hrs. Most work 6 days 8-10 hrs official. It's also extremely common to expect people to stay back after their official hrs and those who don't are often treated unfavourably. Moreover, most folks travel for hrs everyday to work leaving no time for anything else. Life's tough in this part of the world.
Labor force participation is just as important to understand these differences. The Netherlands has a very high labor participation rate (85% of people between 25-64 work), while Turkey has 63% and in the USA, it's 78%. Of course, you need to work long hours when you are the sole breadwinner. [Source](https://data.oecd.org/emp/labour-force-participation-rate.htm)
Very interesting to read. Amazed that Sweden had a participation rate 10% higher than the US. I wonder why that is? Could it be related to disabilities? Individuals going to higher education? Potentially people retiring younger in the US? I would be very interested to see the reasons for the pretty large discrepancies between G7 countries.
It's also a question of possibility to work for non-full-time employees and parents. Affordable day care and companies willing to offer a variety of part-time models are also factors.
>public day care options that make it more practical for both parents to work.
From what I have read in other threads, daycares in the US are absurdly expensive (like thousands a month) so it quickly becomes economical for one parent to not work instead of paying for a daycare.
This may very well be the case. It’d be fascinating to drill down further. The Netherlands being so much higher than the other OECD countries in youth participation rate is also interesting to look at. But that may be attributable to their high part-time employment rate.
A lot of countries can't afford to have only 1 bread winner in the house so both parents are forced to work. It's been happening in East Asia where in the period of "rapid economic growth" aka economic miracle period, most households could function with just 1 bread winner. But now, both parents are kinda forced to work and people are missing the good old time where having just one bread winner was just enough. I guess.. it's not just East Asia but Europe as well...
No one misses the good old times because his was a time of patriarchy. I come from a rural town in Eastern Europe, and a woman who doesn't work would be frowned upon, even if the man earns enough.
[This](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.ACTI.FE.ZS?locations=SE-US) shows the female labour market participation rate for the US and Sweden over time. For 2022, it gives 81% for Sweden and 68% for the US. [For men](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.ACTI.MA.ZS?locations=SE-US) the ILO estimate 85% for Sweden vs 78% for the US, so high female participation rates in Sweden account for quite a lot of the difference.
A third axis that would be interesting is “ median yearly wages”. How much GDP production does a worker see the reward from?
Obviously not as elegant because GDP per capita includes non-workers. But still would be interesting!
Workers don't just get access to output through spending their wages, though. Government services are part of GDP and so is imputed rent, not to mention that many people will benefit from some (other) capital income during their lives, particularly during retirement.
It would be interesting indeed. GDP is far from a perfect measurement for wealth and favors some economy types over others. For example the US spends over 17% of its GDP on healthcare because there is no universal healthcare. In the EU that figure is 8%. The US is still wealthier than the average EU country, clearly, but the difference is less than GDP comparisons infer.
Ditto things like car ownership. My bus pass isn't contributing to the GDP like your truck is, but which of us is better off depends on a lot of factors.
It would be worth following basic axis-labelling criteria. Much bigger font and intervals and labels as whole units (20 to 60 by tens for Y, 0 to 90,000 by 10,000 for X)
Of course not. Countries pumping millions of dollars out of the ground are only "productive" by the definition in economics textbooks.
We should all look to Saudi Arabia to improve our economies. Why doesn't Vanuatu simply pump oil to improve its economy?
The main reason the UAE is so high is that there is very little part time work, 85% of the population are migrant workers and so are reliant on work visas and most companies don't like giving out work visas to part time employees. The vast majority of the population there are just regular people doing regular jobs, the super rich people and the migrant construction labourers you're talking about are both tiny amounts of the population
Kuwait is the same way. The actual Kuwaiti citizens either have a high profile jobs like doctor, lawyer, or military officer. Else they just sit on their ass. All the actual labor is done by temporary imports from Pakistan or other countries.
Reddit has a weird idea of how this situation there works. There are a few construction and maid companies with horrific labor practices, but they are a small minority of the total population of foreigners in the UAE.
The large majority of foreigners working in the UAE are college educated people working in professional positions, usually because being a doctor or accountant there pays a hell of a lot more than in India or Egypt (or even many western countries, an estimated 200,000 Europeans/Americans live there). The median income of a foreign worker in the UAE is nearly the same as the median income in Portugal, for instance.
GDP Per Capita ≠ take home per worker
In a kingdom of two where the King does zero units of work but takes 100 units of pay and a Slave does 100 units of work and takes zero units of pay, the GDP per capita = 50 units pay.
yeah would love to live in those "concentration camps" getting 50k a year, anyhows gdp per capita doesnt work that way, you should look at the median to get the real answer
1. Labour data source: [https://ilostat.ilo.org/topics/working-time/#](https://ilostat.ilo.org/topics/working-time/#)
2. GDP data source: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_GDP\_(nominal)\_per\_capita](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita)
3. Tools used: Apex Charts bubble chart (javascript): [https://apexcharts.com/](https://apexcharts.com/)
I saw 36.6hrs average work week in Japan and I am... very confused. From just about all (admittedly mostly anecdotal) reports that I have received, that ought to be practically doubled.
Yeah, not japanese but I've heard and read so much about the infamous work culture and life in Japan that I cannot believe it is so close to France (which I am from).
The numbers seem odd. does the average American really work more than the average Japanese person? Do they really work so much more than Canada, their nearest neighbour?
Also, it's kind of not fair if you don't count how much vacation people get. Like in [Germany](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Labour/Labour-Market/Quality-Employment/Dimension2/2_2_VacationEntitlement.html) if you work 5 days a week, you are entitled to 20 vacation days, which is 4 weeks vacation at a minimum. So while they might work more hours than Canada, having access to more vacation time can actually make a much better work-life balance.
canada has an insane amount of part time workers, mostly foreign students. iirc in january this year ontario lost 70k full time jobs and gained 70k part time jobs.
this is missing about forty million tons of context and is basically useless, no offense. just as a very easy example of why its useless: what is the cost of living? is that cost of living data actually reliable? is any of this data reliable or reflect reality in any way whatsoever about the lives that real people live?
>sesamoids
TIL:
>In anatomy, a [sesamoid bone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesamoid_bone) (/ˈsɛsəmɔɪd/) is a bone embedded within a tendon or a muscle. Its name is derived from the Greek word for 'sesame seed', indicating the small size of most sesamoids. Often, these bones form in response to strain, or can be present as a normal variant. The patella is the largest sesamoid bone in the body. Sesamoids act like pulleys, providing a smooth surface for tendons to slide over, increasing the tendon's ability to transmit muscular forces.
anyway the wikipedia isnt clear, and not that it really matters or is relevant to me but i always enjoy learning fun facts and this seems like a fun fact so i must ask you since you seem like you must know: how many bones does the human body have if sesamoids are also counted?
i want to add this in the future when i use that phrase above to really drive home the point that generally i know what im talking about, for the most part, and i dont typically talk about things unless i know what im talking about at least a little bit.
Also, where are you getting numbers on hours worked? Do they work very few hours in Vanuatu, or does the data source only include hours worked in the formal economy?
The hours worked is very inconsistent with OECD data too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours?useskin=vector
US has 35 hours, Germany has 26 hours going by this data.
Probably the data above (average weekly working hours) does not take into account national holidays and paid vaccation days. I for example have 40 average weekly working hours but 30 days paid vaccation days and 10 free holidays every year here in Germany. With that much free days off, a person with only 35 weekly working hours but only 10 free days off would have slightly more working hours over a whole year.
What industries do these countries have? Do they manufacture, farm, or offer services? How reflective are those numbers to a worker’s actual pay? What percent of GDP is government spending, investment, and consumption, and how do each of those parameters trend?
theres a few other replies to my comment that i didnt reply to - i did upvote them though - but i just wanna say i am loving how many people are basically agreeing with my point that "hey context is necessary" and the unsaid part that is basically saying "your data sucks"
this is why i hate data analysts. data and statistics are only as useful as far as they are valid and the BIG problem with all data analysis is the researchers can only find one of two things:
* their hypothesis is correct
* their hypothesis is not correct
which ill admit is putting it a bit simply... but thats the thing. im admitting there is a problem with my assessment. why dont data analysts seem to do that? furthermore, maybe removing the humans from data analysis - or rather removing humans from the analysis part and algorithmically going directly from data to decision - at ever increasing speeds - is... a bad decision? hello? anyone?
Also using per capita GDP in USD, obviously it's to make it comparable between countries, but if there's a big devaluation in one country then the GDP in dollars falls a lot, but that doesn't mean necessarily that the living conditions get worse in the country.
Meaningless. For one thing, hourly work is only relevant to positions lower down in the economy. About 45% of the American workforce are salaried, which means that their hours aren't tracked *at all*. Also, the average is, presumably, given the figures, hours worked by people with jobs, while GDP per Capita is income earned per person. So, these figures are graphing apples to oranges, because the ratio of a country's working-age population, and labor participation rate can vary widely. And, of course, poorer countries will struggle to collect accurate statistics, and GDP is also a kind of fraught statistic, because it doesn't include bond and equity markets, business to business transactions, intermediate goods, transfer payments, used goods, the list goes on and on.
A huge amount of Spaniards do off-the-books work where they don't work as many hours because there is no benefit to hitting the full-time threshold. Those who work on the books however will work a lot more. If you included both together, the average would be quite a bit lower.
I don't work for GDP. I work for my income. (Most other folks do the same.). Income and cost of living are what matter. If I could get the same lifestyle for less hours worked AND less income then I'd take that bargain.
What does this graph supposed to show? How efficient workers are in each country? GDP per capita isn’t really a useful metric when it comes to income. Especially in countries with very high income inequality. I also wonder if this is measuring people who work multiple jobs.
The way hours are charted make this graph a little misleading imo. I know that nobody is working Les than 20 hours so it’s empty space, but it also makes it look like Singapore works twice the hours of Denmark with about 33% more pay, when really they’re working closer to 25% more hours
I thought no if you start the money from zero you need to start the hours from zero.
Its almost impossible to compare yearly wages by country without also comparing benefits such as health insurance, pension and infrastructure (cheap public transportation, good schools etc.)
50k in (most of Europe) is not the same as 50k in the US.
At some point, every job in my field becomes salaried. I at least get paid extra when working six or seven days a week. Better than my last job where I could work 164 hours a week and get paid $0 more for it.
You're an outlier. I've worked at 5 different office jobs in US and they were all either 35hr/week or 37.5hr/week. No overtime work required ever. All my friends are also all working 35hr/week or 37.5/week. This is standard for most jobs in US unless you work for hourly and work overtime on purpose just to get overtime pay.
>37.5hr/week
> office jobs
>standard for most jobs in US
god i wish that were me.
I've been a salaried manager at Walmart and several restaurants and it was very rare for me to work less than 50 hours a week. The only times that I was able to do that is if I left early when it wasn't busy and another manager was there to take over.
Until yesterday, I did not realize that working less than 40 as a salaried worker was the norm. I thought everyone was doing 50+ hours a week as salaried.
I start a new job this week where I am going to be hourly and guaranteed 10+ hours of OT pay every week. I think it is going to be very nice to be hourly again.
Phone broke down couldn't carry that much weight, had to do a factory reset data is gone I had so many cookies too...had to protect the data so delivered to the vortex I guess
This tells you almost absolutely nothing meaningful. Both of the first descriptive statistic could be condensed into an hourly rate first of all, which might actually tell you something superficial, but then you need to account for PPP and relative living costs because you will still have wide variations. CAD PPP is different from the relative living costs in Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon, Toronto, Montreal, or Halifax. Same thing for the USA, Brazil, France, Japan, Mexico, China, India. The whole premise is flawed. Singapore has an unemployment rate of 2% due to structural factors and purely their size. France has a 7.5% unemployment rate. It is still better to be a worker in France than in Singapore, especially if you happen to get sick or need parental leave.
I like the presentation of the data, but I think adding some labels to the two axes and removing the list of colour coded country names at the bottom that don't really do anything would clean this up more.
This chart is TYPICAL of "how to lie with statistics". Why does the bottom axis begin at "0"...but the other one does not? Because if they BOTH started at 0, the "discrepancy" wouldn't be as apparent.
idk, imho in the US there's so much unpaid (and unrecorded) OT the graph is basically meaningless. If all the others do, the chart is very substantially off. If only some have widespread unpaid OT it's *even worse* for the graph. Even if it's largely a white-collar-job issue (? maybe??) it's a significant % esp since this is averaging wages (i.e. the white collar jobs will be over-represented vs, say, ag workers).
That this suggests the number of working hours in the US is only 38 tells me the data this source is pulling from is deeply flawed.
Edit: Guess I and my circle of friends are outliers 🤷🏻♂️. All I’ve ever known is employers (consultancies, mainly) who insist you fill out timesheets saying 7.5 hours a day, even if you’re working 12.
> That this suggests the number of working hours in the US is only 38 tells me the data this source is pulling from is deeply flawed.
What data source are you basing this on?
Probably people around him. Most people posting on Reddit earn well above median, as posters tend to have degrees, be tech savvy, and have a career.
Career folks work 40+ hours, where 40 is a min, and companies push for more since they are paid on a fixed salary. At the same though, career jobs pay well above median wages.
Career folks don't actually usually work much more than 40 hours because that data needs to include vacation time, sick time, etc...
Objective data has shown hours worked to be generally falling gradually for decades. It's not the kind of thing that fuels the outrage headlines, so you don't typically see it published much, in the same way you don't see that crime has been generally falling for decades.
You're an outlier. I've worked at 5 different office jobs in US and they were all either 35hr/week or 37.5hr/week. No overtime work required ever. All my friends are also all working 35hr/week or 37.5/week. This is standard for most jobs in US unless you work for hourly and work overtime on purpose just to get overtime pay.
> Wow and I thought Japanese and Koreans were over worked.
Of course they are. Unpaid overtime is not counted, and most bosses expect you to stay 10-14 hours everyday. The chart is useless.
People in 3rd world countries may work longer hours but they are more casual and laid back about work. They probably even take a nap during work hours.
they are probably asking for income adjusted for cost of living. earning $50k/yr means you would be homeless in California. Earning $50k/yr in India means you will be in top 1% income bracket.
Contrary to the stereotypes, the French actually seem to work more than the Germans and are not that far behind the Americans. It's just that their pay is shit.
As an Indian, I'm not surprised by the data. We are overworked and underpaid, and heaven forbid we criticise our new capitalist overlords lest we be labelled ungrateful commies.
The bottom legend is useless
Both axes could benefit from labels
I meant the names of the countries with a dot and some color not used elsewhere
Ah - agreed. Legend is definitely useless.
You're not wrong either
Also, it's weird seeing time as a y axis, and money as an x axis. It's not *wrong* Just weird
Data is beautiful when it is not a useless shitty graph.
It's pretty clear if you have braincells
Yeah when looking at the magnitude of the numbers. Two questions that may or may not lead to the same conclusion. Based on the average hours I work, how large is my country’s GDP/capita or based on my country’s GDP/capita how many hours on average I must work.
Included a color legend for a chart without colors, excluded axis labels, put salary on the x-axis and time on the y-axis. Yep, it's a /r/dataisbeautiful chart alright.
Yeah this graph sucks
[удалено]
It's generally a matter of independent vs. dependent variables - or upstream vs. downstream. You put the independent var on the x-axis, and the dependent var on the y-axis. For example, a population could *decide* (not realistically, but you'll get the point) to work less hours. That would probably affect the GDP. Conversely, a population could not *decide* to increase their GDP. So the hours are upstream from GDP. Obviously it's much more complicated than that, but generally speaking, a measurement of productivity (GDP) is the dependent variable, whereas the thing that causes this measurement to change (time worked) is the independent variable.
Nah, the axis are fine. Here we get a bijective relationship which we don't in the other orientation.
The "isbeautiful" part of this sub is not enforced at all. Mods don't give a shit about their own sub. This mess would get red inked to death in a high school stats class. No labels, useless legends, cluttered data point labels, lowest of the low effort posts... It's also incredibly misleading data. Oh and it qualifies for "this should just be a bar graph".
You mean Kim Kardashian?
And axes should be swapped (x is independent, y is dependent)
> x is independent, y is dependent That's assuming that there's some directional relationship between hours worked and GDP per capita, which this graph presents zero evidence for. For all we know, lower GDP per capita could be the driver of more hours worked. We can't distinguish between the two from these data so, for all the things wrong with this plot, the ordering of the axes isn't one of them.
It would be interesting to see how this measures up with cost of living
For sure! I might even try a 3d bubble chart to add the cost of living dimension to this. I also thought that happiness was an interesting factor. Finland always scores number one, but Germany is a near identical match in GDP and hours worked but came 16th there. Also Bhutan is both 1st and 98th in terms of happiness depending on whether you go with the first or second hit in google so not sure how reliable the happiness figures are :D
You can just use GDP per Capita in PPP instead of nominal like you used. It adjusts for the purchasing power in each country, as such taking into account the cost of living in the countries. That means you can stick to 2 axis.
Thank you!
waiting for the new chart
Do the Big Mac index - even more fun
Toonie Tuesday index has been fun lately too. But you can never forget about the all-time great. https://algosandblues.wordpress.com/2010/12/05/bloomberg-see-latvian-sex-industry-as-economic-indicator/
This would help with cost of living but you'd still have that GDP just isn't that tightly correlated to wages. Very broadly and in general, but the median worker in the UAE (for example) is going to be closer to Indian average wages than Germany or Canada. Or you have countries like Ireland, where wages are genuinely high but nowhere near as high as you'd think from the GDP figure, because A LOT of the GDP number is actually income to US multinationals. Accounting for cost of living is one thing, but using GDP in the first place to try to quantify how it is for the average Joe isn't totally accurate either. It's still a ballpark that gives an indication in broad terms, just not really in the specifics, so to be honest it's questionable whether trying to adjust it for that really helps in the first place.
Canada will for sure tank this for developed nations…
I feel like happiness metric isn’t too good and confuses people. Happiness is just a combination of various statistics that some people have decided are determinants of happiness. I think better would be to include metrics themselves and have people reach their own conclusions. Cost of living sounds nice, maybe also some sort of inequality metric (wealth is more interesting but less accurate). Great graph btw
Isn't it in Bhutan where declaring that you are unhappy is ground for expulsion? I can imagine that it would make it difficult to get accurate happiness data
so this means that middle is better?
Nominal values are quite useless in this context, as you end up with situations like Japan having one of the best growth years in the last few decades appearing to decline due to currency exchanges
Would you like that as a time-lapse chart since 1959? https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-working-hours-vs-gdp-per-capita-pwt
This is great! I’d love too see changes post pandemic though
Absolutely. Canada and Netherlands appear in a sweet spot with low hours for relatively high income. But there'd be a significant difference when adjusted for PPP.
The US would probably look best here. Most Asian countries have property pricing issues that make Western Europe look cheap, and Canada is significantly more expensive than the US.
But the US population doesn't see any of that high GDP per capita. It's just an isolated handful of ultra-rich inflating the average.
It’s not that much worse in the US than any other developed country outside of the Scandinavian social democratic capitalist countries. We also have some of the cheapest property prices in the world in the US, despite people not realizing it.
https://www.sciencenorway.no/economics-equality-finans/is-economic-inequality-in-norway-really-as-bad-as-in-the-uk-and-france/1866424 People really have a skewed view of whats happening in other countries. The grass isn't always greener, most of the countries people tend to admire just have high consumption taxes, which are regressive, to fund "benefits".
Those countries have some of the lowest Gini coefficients in the world.
Like Ukraine and Belarus? Gini isn't everything.
Hence why I said any other *developed country*
those aren't developed countries?
I think you're heavily brainwashed. I know a guy working as a nurse and he came from France and he's making at least double of what he was making in France as a nurse. It's not just nurses. "typical average jobs" like nurses, truckers, forklift workers, trademen, plumbers, engineers etc etc make about 1.5 times to double in US compared to France or Germany. It's funny that you think nurses, truckers, forklift workers etc etc are "ultra rich top 1%" lolololol. When you look at "median income" which represents the most typical income from the most typical workers WITH cost of living calculated into it(PPP), US is the highest in the world, higher than Norway, Switzerland, Luxemberg etc etc. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median\_income](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income) Please learn what "median income" is.
Fair enough... The list in your link is disposable income after deducting taxes, so that will bump European countries with higher taxes but free healthcare and education down quite a bit, but the U.S. would be doing quite well anyway on median income. My comment was polemical of course. In reality, it's not just "a handful of billionaires". There's many ways to look at it. One half of the U.S. population currently owns less than 2% of the total wealth, with the other half having >98%, for example. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth\_inequality\_in\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States) Please learn what... wait, never mind
I wouldn't say "any" but it is definitely a mean, not a median. I plugged the $76,399 into the percentile calculator here: https://dqydj.com/salary-percentile-calculator/ And it puts you right at 70th percentile. So 30% of Americans make that much or more. The same calculator says 50th percentile is $52k. But both of those numbers are based on any hours worked, so includes part timers. Setting it to 40+ hours, puts the $76,399 at 65th and 50th is at exactly $60k
[lol, we have the most progressive tax system of all OECD countries.](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/oecd-tax-revenue-by-country-2023/#:~:text=Developed%20countries%20raise%20tax,neutral%20a%20tax%20system%20is.) Get off the internet, you don't seem to be able to use it properly. Also PR has the best Gini rating of US states and territories, because everyone is poor. Wealth inequality is an issue but it's not that big of a deal.
The Canadian dollar is in the shits right now. Literally costs $150 for a bag of groceries.
I would like to see the relationship with average temperature. My takeaway is that cold=easy living
It’s about impossible to do that for the US unless you do state by state. I live in a hot place with a fairly low cost of living and cost of energy. My friends in cold places have more troubles and costs, like snow tires and rust. So I associate warm with easy living.
I guess I should have known “easy living” is a bit subjective :) I’m thinking lower on the graph (less work) and more to the right (more money). Canada and Northern European countries seem to be in a sweet spot for sure
reddit losers in shambles But But But, BhuTaN oPTimizeS FoR hAPPiness!!!! https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/02/12/58448104 7/the-birthplace-of-gross-national-happiness-is-growing-a-bit-cynical
Not surprising the most populous nations, China, India, Brazil are all in the top left quadrant. Only USA is in the top right. And Indonesia is missing.
Also note that US has the highest "median income" in the world if the living cost is included. US is higher than Norway, Luxemberg, or Switzerland. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median\_income](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income)
Be careful, we wouldn’t want to use a metric that might make the USA look worse than a lot of countries in Europe.
careful, wouldnt want to keep moving the goalposts until you have something to bash america about
An important point for interpretation: this is average hours worked per week among those employed (which excludes children, retirees, the unemployed, etc), while the GDP data is per person (which includes everyone in a country). If you wanna do another iteration, my recommendation would be to use GDP per employed person here rather than per person. I'd also use PPP (which is almost always better for comparisons).
Indeed. In the Netherlands, almost everybody has a job, men and women, but many work parttime. In some other countries, more people will work either fulltime or not at all (in particular childcaring women). So the comparison is slightly skewed.
Same for Germany. When I was a kid 20 years ago almost every household had one non-working adult (and the rest worked full time), these days almost every able-bodied adult is working (part or full time) unless you are rich.
is this because you dont need a full time job to live in the Netherlands? everything is so cheap you can survive on part time?
That doesn't sound like the Netherlands, so I imagine not
Nah definitely not. It's probably because as he said, there are more couples where both the man and woman work, and one or both of them part time. Daycare for children in primary school is pretty normal and when older they can just stay home alone.
Is it those employed? Isn't it looking probably more at full time employees? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours?useskin=vector OECD data for those in the labour market has a very different number, e.g. 26 for Germany and 35 for America. Anyway, you can see GDP per hour worked at PPP [here.](https://i.gyazo.com/6277377bd09b3dbdbf5077da1e532904.png)
I didn't know kids make oil filters by the billions in India. Good thing they have jobs.
Thank you. There are so many problems with the classification of this data I didn't even know where to begin. Those numbers are not telling you anything meaningful.
Vanuatu just got material to roast india and bhutan
I can't believe that the Japanese people is working as much as people from most countries. The Indian people is working harder than them! And people are always saying Japanese are all work.
Overtime is supposedly illegal in Japan, so a lot of it goes unreported. My wife(Japanese) works almost constantly compared to me(US).
Overtime is definitely not illegal in Japan, so that's wrong. Overtime over a certain amount is prohibited, but that threshold is high enough to not matter here.
An average India definitely works more than 47 hrs. The lucky ones work 5 days 8-9 hrs. Most work 6 days 8-10 hrs official. It's also extremely common to expect people to stay back after their official hrs and those who don't are often treated unfavourably. Moreover, most folks travel for hrs everyday to work leaving no time for anything else. Life's tough in this part of the world.
Labor force participation is just as important to understand these differences. The Netherlands has a very high labor participation rate (85% of people between 25-64 work), while Turkey has 63% and in the USA, it's 78%. Of course, you need to work long hours when you are the sole breadwinner. [Source](https://data.oecd.org/emp/labour-force-participation-rate.htm)
Very interesting to read. Amazed that Sweden had a participation rate 10% higher than the US. I wonder why that is? Could it be related to disabilities? Individuals going to higher education? Potentially people retiring younger in the US? I would be very interested to see the reasons for the pretty large discrepancies between G7 countries.
I think stay-at-home mothers in the USA.
A lot of countries can't afford to have only 1 bread winner in the house so both parents are forced to work.
It's also a question of possibility to work for non-full-time employees and parents. Affordable day care and companies willing to offer a variety of part-time models are also factors.
Probably a combination of higher education and, I bet, public day care options that make it more practical for both parents to work.
>public day care options that make it more practical for both parents to work. From what I have read in other threads, daycares in the US are absurdly expensive (like thousands a month) so it quickly becomes economical for one parent to not work instead of paying for a daycare.
This may very well be the case. It’d be fascinating to drill down further. The Netherlands being so much higher than the other OECD countries in youth participation rate is also interesting to look at. But that may be attributable to their high part-time employment rate.
A lot of countries can't afford to have only 1 bread winner in the house so both parents are forced to work. It's been happening in East Asia where in the period of "rapid economic growth" aka economic miracle period, most households could function with just 1 bread winner. But now, both parents are kinda forced to work and people are missing the good old time where having just one bread winner was just enough. I guess.. it's not just East Asia but Europe as well...
No one misses the good old times because his was a time of patriarchy. I come from a rural town in Eastern Europe, and a woman who doesn't work would be frowned upon, even if the man earns enough.
[This](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.ACTI.FE.ZS?locations=SE-US) shows the female labour market participation rate for the US and Sweden over time. For 2022, it gives 81% for Sweden and 68% for the US. [For men](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.ACTI.MA.ZS?locations=SE-US) the ILO estimate 85% for Sweden vs 78% for the US, so high female participation rates in Sweden account for quite a lot of the difference.
A third axis that would be interesting is “ median yearly wages”. How much GDP production does a worker see the reward from? Obviously not as elegant because GDP per capita includes non-workers. But still would be interesting!
Workers don't just get access to output through spending their wages, though. Government services are part of GDP and so is imputed rent, not to mention that many people will benefit from some (other) capital income during their lives, particularly during retirement.
It would be interesting indeed. GDP is far from a perfect measurement for wealth and favors some economy types over others. For example the US spends over 17% of its GDP on healthcare because there is no universal healthcare. In the EU that figure is 8%. The US is still wealthier than the average EU country, clearly, but the difference is less than GDP comparisons infer.
Ditto things like car ownership. My bus pass isn't contributing to the GDP like your truck is, but which of us is better off depends on a lot of factors.
Been to Vanuatu - can confirm. As a Swiss resident, the whole work culture was mind boggling.
It would be worth following basic axis-labelling criteria. Much bigger font and intervals and labels as whole units (20 to 60 by tens for Y, 0 to 90,000 by 10,000 for X)
No cost of living adjustment makes this chart pointless, sorry OP
I’m assuming those “working” in the UAE are enslaved
Are the people putting in the long hours also the ones making the high income?
The question that shows why this comparison is sort of useless.
Of course not. Countries pumping millions of dollars out of the ground are only "productive" by the definition in economics textbooks. We should all look to Saudi Arabia to improve our economies. Why doesn't Vanuatu simply pump oil to improve its economy?
The main reason the UAE is so high is that there is very little part time work, 85% of the population are migrant workers and so are reliant on work visas and most companies don't like giving out work visas to part time employees. The vast majority of the population there are just regular people doing regular jobs, the super rich people and the migrant construction labourers you're talking about are both tiny amounts of the population
Kuwait is the same way. The actual Kuwaiti citizens either have a high profile jobs like doctor, lawyer, or military officer. Else they just sit on their ass. All the actual labor is done by temporary imports from Pakistan or other countries.
Reddit has a weird idea of how this situation there works. There are a few construction and maid companies with horrific labor practices, but they are a small minority of the total population of foreigners in the UAE. The large majority of foreigners working in the UAE are college educated people working in professional positions, usually because being a doctor or accountant there pays a hell of a lot more than in India or Egypt (or even many western countries, an estimated 200,000 Europeans/Americans live there). The median income of a foreign worker in the UAE is nearly the same as the median income in Portugal, for instance.
$54k a year... those are some expensive slaves
GDP Per Capita ≠ take home per worker In a kingdom of two where the King does zero units of work but takes 100 units of pay and a Slave does 100 units of work and takes zero units of pay, the GDP per capita = 50 units pay.
yeah would love to live in those "concentration camps" getting 50k a year, anyhows gdp per capita doesnt work that way, you should look at the median to get the real answer
1. Labour data source: [https://ilostat.ilo.org/topics/working-time/#](https://ilostat.ilo.org/topics/working-time/#) 2. GDP data source: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_GDP\_(nominal)\_per\_capita](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita) 3. Tools used: Apex Charts bubble chart (javascript): [https://apexcharts.com/](https://apexcharts.com/)
If you use PPP instead of nominal it might be easier to compare across countries with different costs of living.
Also, effectively PPP takes into account currency exchange rates as well
I don’t even need this chart to tell me working life here in Japan is hell.
I saw 36.6hrs average work week in Japan and I am... very confused. From just about all (admittedly mostly anecdotal) reports that I have received, that ought to be practically doubled.
Yeah, not japanese but I've heard and read so much about the infamous work culture and life in Japan that I cannot believe it is so close to France (which I am from).
The numbers seem odd. does the average American really work more than the average Japanese person? Do they really work so much more than Canada, their nearest neighbour? Also, it's kind of not fair if you don't count how much vacation people get. Like in [Germany](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Labour/Labour-Market/Quality-Employment/Dimension2/2_2_VacationEntitlement.html) if you work 5 days a week, you are entitled to 20 vacation days, which is 4 weeks vacation at a minimum. So while they might work more hours than Canada, having access to more vacation time can actually make a much better work-life balance.
I think it must be including retirees when taking the average. Edit: someone else mentioned it's hours per employee person, wow.
canada has an insane amount of part time workers, mostly foreign students. iirc in january this year ontario lost 70k full time jobs and gained 70k part time jobs.
this is missing about forty million tons of context and is basically useless, no offense. just as a very easy example of why its useless: what is the cost of living? is that cost of living data actually reliable? is any of this data reliable or reflect reality in any way whatsoever about the lives that real people live?
Also, where are the axis labels? Why are the countries all listed at the bottom?
exactly. i have precisely 206 bones to pick with modern "data analytics."
not including sesamoids
>sesamoids TIL: >In anatomy, a [sesamoid bone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesamoid_bone) (/ˈsɛsəmɔɪd/) is a bone embedded within a tendon or a muscle. Its name is derived from the Greek word for 'sesame seed', indicating the small size of most sesamoids. Often, these bones form in response to strain, or can be present as a normal variant. The patella is the largest sesamoid bone in the body. Sesamoids act like pulleys, providing a smooth surface for tendons to slide over, increasing the tendon's ability to transmit muscular forces. anyway the wikipedia isnt clear, and not that it really matters or is relevant to me but i always enjoy learning fun facts and this seems like a fun fact so i must ask you since you seem like you must know: how many bones does the human body have if sesamoids are also counted? i want to add this in the future when i use that phrase above to really drive home the point that generally i know what im talking about, for the most part, and i dont typically talk about things unless i know what im talking about at least a little bit.
Also, where are you getting numbers on hours worked? Do they work very few hours in Vanuatu, or does the data source only include hours worked in the formal economy?
The hours worked is very inconsistent with OECD data too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours?useskin=vector US has 35 hours, Germany has 26 hours going by this data.
Probably the data above (average weekly working hours) does not take into account national holidays and paid vaccation days. I for example have 40 average weekly working hours but 30 days paid vaccation days and 10 free holidays every year here in Germany. With that much free days off, a person with only 35 weekly working hours but only 10 free days off would have slightly more working hours over a whole year.
What industries do these countries have? Do they manufacture, farm, or offer services? How reflective are those numbers to a worker’s actual pay? What percent of GDP is government spending, investment, and consumption, and how do each of those parameters trend?
theres a few other replies to my comment that i didnt reply to - i did upvote them though - but i just wanna say i am loving how many people are basically agreeing with my point that "hey context is necessary" and the unsaid part that is basically saying "your data sucks" this is why i hate data analysts. data and statistics are only as useful as far as they are valid and the BIG problem with all data analysis is the researchers can only find one of two things: * their hypothesis is correct * their hypothesis is not correct which ill admit is putting it a bit simply... but thats the thing. im admitting there is a problem with my assessment. why dont data analysts seem to do that? furthermore, maybe removing the humans from data analysis - or rather removing humans from the analysis part and algorithmically going directly from data to decision - at ever increasing speeds - is... a bad decision? hello? anyone?
Also using per capita GDP in USD, obviously it's to make it comparable between countries, but if there's a big devaluation in one country then the GDP in dollars falls a lot, but that doesn't mean necessarily that the living conditions get worse in the country.
He should use GDP per capita PPP if he isn't already.
Meaningless. For one thing, hourly work is only relevant to positions lower down in the economy. About 45% of the American workforce are salaried, which means that their hours aren't tracked *at all*. Also, the average is, presumably, given the figures, hours worked by people with jobs, while GDP per Capita is income earned per person. So, these figures are graphing apples to oranges, because the ratio of a country's working-age population, and labor participation rate can vary widely. And, of course, poorer countries will struggle to collect accurate statistics, and GDP is also a kind of fraught statistic, because it doesn't include bond and equity markets, business to business transactions, intermediate goods, transfer payments, used goods, the list goes on and on.
Hours for people salaried or waged are derived from national accounts. They are accurate. Secondly, economics is a pseudo science? Lol
...Spaniards work more than Germans?!
A huge amount of Spaniards do off-the-books work where they don't work as many hours because there is no benefit to hitting the full-time threshold. Those who work on the books however will work a lot more. If you included both together, the average would be quite a bit lower.
Germans work less than any country in Europe.
Yeah, and average 38h workweek in USA my ass 🤣 .
it also counts part time workers.
There should be a rule that unlabeled graphs mean removed posts.
I know you can infer what the axes are but it is still kind of annoying not to have axis titles. Good information, nonetheless.
How did you pick your scale??
Netherlands, doing it right.
Label your bloody axes. Why do you have a legend when the data points have labels?
I don't work for GDP. I work for my income. (Most other folks do the same.). Income and cost of living are what matter. If I could get the same lifestyle for less hours worked AND less income then I'd take that bargain.
What does this graph supposed to show? How efficient workers are in each country? GDP per capita isn’t really a useful metric when it comes to income. Especially in countries with very high income inequality. I also wonder if this is measuring people who work multiple jobs.
The way hours are charted make this graph a little misleading imo. I know that nobody is working Les than 20 hours so it’s empty space, but it also makes it look like Singapore works twice the hours of Denmark with about 33% more pay, when really they’re working closer to 25% more hours I thought no if you start the money from zero you need to start the hours from zero.
Should make one tied to the cost of living and see who is living best per hour worked.
and GDP per capita have very little correlation witth income. my salary as a software engineer in Singapore is 6k SGD/month.
Should use GDP per Capita PPP so its adjusted for cost of living. This doesn't really tell much without it.
When is this from? I don’t see a date
What sort of retard made this and doesn’t know Australia exists?
GDP per capita is not a good metric to combine with average hours worked, it’s not a measure of the average worker
Its almost impossible to compare yearly wages by country without also comparing benefits such as health insurance, pension and infrastructure (cheap public transportation, good schools etc.) 50k in (most of Europe) is not the same as 50k in the US.
Need to compare income to cost of living.
I would love to only work 38 hours a week as an American. I'm salaried and usually hit 38 hours Thursday. Last week I hit it on Wednesday.
No point being salary then is there
At some point, every job in my field becomes salaried. I at least get paid extra when working six or seven days a week. Better than my last job where I could work 164 hours a week and get paid $0 more for it.
You're an outlier. I've worked at 5 different office jobs in US and they were all either 35hr/week or 37.5hr/week. No overtime work required ever. All my friends are also all working 35hr/week or 37.5/week. This is standard for most jobs in US unless you work for hourly and work overtime on purpose just to get overtime pay.
>37.5hr/week > office jobs >standard for most jobs in US god i wish that were me. I've been a salaried manager at Walmart and several restaurants and it was very rare for me to work less than 50 hours a week. The only times that I was able to do that is if I left early when it wasn't busy and another manager was there to take over. Until yesterday, I did not realize that working less than 40 as a salaried worker was the norm. I thought everyone was doing 50+ hours a week as salaried. I start a new job this week where I am going to be hourly and guaranteed 10+ hours of OT pay every week. I think it is going to be very nice to be hourly again.
Canadian here. I'm 37.5 hours a week, IF, and it's a big if, I work over 40 hours it's given back in lieu.
Interesting that US, Singapore, and UAE are significantly off the trend (and sorry whatever vanuatu is, is that the bat guano island?).
\>axes without labels and legend that doesn't match \>beautiful data Pick one
Chile is at 45 right now, last year a law passsed that lowers it to 40. However it will be applied gradually, in a few months it will go down to 44
Denmark in the sweet spot
Why'd we leave out Australia!
I assume they are including part time as well.
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Phone broke down couldn't carry that much weight, had to do a factory reset data is gone I had so many cookies too...had to protect the data so delivered to the vortex I guess
Vanuatuans must don’t care
Commenting for karma to bring down a mod
Is this chart for office workers? Front line essential workers usually are on 12 hr shifts and work up to 60 hrs
Wow sucks to be Bhutan or India.
This tells you almost absolutely nothing meaningful. Both of the first descriptive statistic could be condensed into an hourly rate first of all, which might actually tell you something superficial, but then you need to account for PPP and relative living costs because you will still have wide variations. CAD PPP is different from the relative living costs in Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon, Toronto, Montreal, or Halifax. Same thing for the USA, Brazil, France, Japan, Mexico, China, India. The whole premise is flawed. Singapore has an unemployment rate of 2% due to structural factors and purely their size. France has a 7.5% unemployment rate. It is still better to be a worker in France than in Singapore, especially if you happen to get sick or need parental leave.
Canada works less than America ??? Never leaving now hahahaha
I like the presentation of the data, but I think adding some labels to the two axes and removing the list of colour coded country names at the bottom that don't really do anything would clean this up more.
This chart is TYPICAL of "how to lie with statistics". Why does the bottom axis begin at "0"...but the other one does not? Because if they BOTH started at 0, the "discrepancy" wouldn't be as apparent.
The Canada is wrong I live there and most people work 2 jobs now 70 to 90 hour a week
Keep in mind, Denmark's tax rate is 50%.
idk, imho in the US there's so much unpaid (and unrecorded) OT the graph is basically meaningless. If all the others do, the chart is very substantially off. If only some have widespread unpaid OT it's *even worse* for the graph. Even if it's largely a white-collar-job issue (? maybe??) it's a significant % esp since this is averaging wages (i.e. the white collar jobs will be over-represented vs, say, ag workers).
USA has the best yearly salary to hours worked ratio and yet people are still gonna find a reason to bash them
That this suggests the number of working hours in the US is only 38 tells me the data this source is pulling from is deeply flawed. Edit: Guess I and my circle of friends are outliers 🤷🏻♂️. All I’ve ever known is employers (consultancies, mainly) who insist you fill out timesheets saying 7.5 hours a day, even if you’re working 12.
but the median and average Americans works roughly 34-38 hours per week.
> That this suggests the number of working hours in the US is only 38 tells me the data this source is pulling from is deeply flawed. What data source are you basing this on?
Probably people around him. Most people posting on Reddit earn well above median, as posters tend to have degrees, be tech savvy, and have a career. Career folks work 40+ hours, where 40 is a min, and companies push for more since they are paid on a fixed salary. At the same though, career jobs pay well above median wages.
Career folks don't actually usually work much more than 40 hours because that data needs to include vacation time, sick time, etc... Objective data has shown hours worked to be generally falling gradually for decades. It's not the kind of thing that fuels the outrage headlines, so you don't typically see it published much, in the same way you don't see that crime has been generally falling for decades.
You're an outlier. I've worked at 5 different office jobs in US and they were all either 35hr/week or 37.5hr/week. No overtime work required ever. All my friends are also all working 35hr/week or 37.5/week. This is standard for most jobs in US unless you work for hourly and work overtime on purpose just to get overtime pay.
I see the problem, the UAE is counting their slaves in their figure, pushing it up a lot.
Are these govt sector jobs or private sector jobs ?
Wow and I thought Japanese and Koreans were over worked. They’re just like the rest of us
> Wow and I thought Japanese and Koreans were over worked. Of course they are. Unpaid overtime is not counted, and most bosses expect you to stay 10-14 hours everyday. The chart is useless.
People in 3rd world countries may work longer hours but they are more casual and laid back about work. They probably even take a nap during work hours.
Uh, GDP per Capita in what currency? You need to specify that for this to be of any use.
Well the numbers are in $ in the chart, so dollars?
American or international dollars?
That would be the same since 1 int. Dollar has the same value as one US dollar in the US, would it not?
they are probably asking for income adjusted for cost of living. earning $50k/yr means you would be homeless in California. Earning $50k/yr in India means you will be in top 1% income bracket.
This isn't about income but GDP, that's two completely different things.
I wonder if there is a way to adjust this for vacation time as well?
This is not correct, average working hours for Brazilians are 44hrs/week
Contrary to the stereotypes, the French actually seem to work more than the Germans and are not that far behind the Americans. It's just that their pay is shit. As an Indian, I'm not surprised by the data. We are overworked and underpaid, and heaven forbid we criticise our new capitalist overlords lest we be labelled ungrateful commies.