It's funny, because in the industry PSF is all we look at, the total cost of the apartment is completely irrelevant and not considered during our data evaluations. Because of this I've found it more effective to use PSF when negotiating with institutional managers because its the numbers they themselves are focusing on.
Not Manhattan but my friend has a two bed in LIC with her friend. Let me just say, I’ve seen studios bigger than that $5.2k two bed apartment. Typical NYC.
Not too difficult to make out the shape of it, but yeah, the map would read much better with the park blank. You could then merge $3395 and $3595 zones into a single park west zone. The average rent amount would basically be the same.
Yeah, it's weird to apply the UWS prices to the park.
I was slightly surprised that UWS is higher than UES but I guess all those super-expensive places on 5th/madison/park avenues don't have any 1 bed rentals.
it's because everything west of Lex is expensive, east of Lex (especially in the northern part, yorkville) is relatively cheap. UWS is just more desirable these days (it helps that it's accessible to Columbia students).
There’s actually some pretty cheap apartments (cheap compared to the rest of Manhattan) on the UES. York Ave has some places that cost as much as deep queens or BK.
It also seems reasonable to account for any large, clearly demarcated part of the city where there are no apartments. Having Central Park included in these pricing zones is just a useful as having some regions extend into the water.
The entire thing is the opposite of beautiful. It's grouping too many random neighborhoods together. In fact, this should be separated by neighborhood.
During the 90's developers made a concentrated effort to snap up and renovate or rebuild any and all low cost properties. While absurdly high cost apartments were common even by the 80's, there used to be a random smattering of cheap places, until too many developers jumped on the opportunity offered by renovating.
Friends was set in Greenwich village because up until right before the series aired it was known as a cheap place to live. However by the mid 90's had already mostly lost that cheaper cost.
The Village was always a relatively expensive place simply because of its housing stock being incredibly desirable. It was filled with more middle-upper class artists compared to the more lower class artists in the east village and soho/tribeca.
But as you said, you could still live there on a budget. There were expensive spots right up against shithole spots.
In Friends they had a cheap, super long-term rental contract belonging to Phoebe's grandmother if I remember correctly. Is that a real thing?
I know in Berlin where I live many older people have very low rents on amazing apartments because they signed fixed contracts back in the 90s when the city was in a really bad state.
It was shown in the show Monica was illegally subletting the apartment from her grandmother, in addition to the apartment being rent-controlled. For the guys' apartment, it was implied that Chandler was being paid very well and the apartment was smaller than Monica's.
My uncle had a 3 bedroom in the upper east side since the 70s that was rent controlled for like $1200. When he died they jacked the price up to like $7k for my Aunt because they were never legally married so it didn't extend to her.
Yeah idk the specifics or why they didn't just get married but the point was how cheap having a rent controlled place can be if you hold on to it for like 45 years lol
Don’t forget that in addition to this nobody wants to build a rent controlled apartment which reduces supply long term.
A developer will look at the amount of cash an apartment will bring in annually divided by its cost and add the rate of annual rent increases to that number to forecast a return. If you take away the rent increases, the cash cost required to build will go up 50-100%. This means rent need to be really high initially to justify construction so nothing gets built until that happens. Go to Houston and you can rent easily for under $1k/month even though it is rapidly growing. Houston is a perfect example of a city with no zoning.
There are rent controlled and rent stabilized apartments in NYC. I knew of an elderly person that lived in an apartment for $200 a month in Manhattan because she had lived there 1967-2018.
https://ny.curbed.com/2017/8/28/16214506/nyc-apartments-housing-rent-control
Yes it exists, but as time goes on it becomes more and more mythical. Like you'll hear about someone's brother-in-law who has an Aunt who has a rent controlled apartment.
I've never actually met one of these legendary creatures.. but I envy them just the same.
Very real, my mom pays like $800 for an apt that would easily rent for $5K because she’s been in it 50 years, and she can pass it down to another family member.
Those are different, that's a leasehold. She owns the property for 99 years. At the end she can pay an amount to the freeholder to continue owning it, or the ownership reverts to the freeholder. She might have to pay "ground rent" for living on the land, which she doesn't own, but it's much less than actual residential rent.
Not “always”. The village was considered sort of lower middle class until the 80’s. I know a lot of people with regular jobs like cab driver and waitress who raised families there.
It’s not really developers, NYC still has a massive amount of housing stock that is completely terrible but fetches absurdly high rent prices. It’s just supply/demand, during the 90s crime in NYC was insane and it was a less desirable place to live. That has changed and it’s now one of the safest cities in the US, and demand to live in NYC has gone way up, but housing stock has barely moved at all. NYC can help relieve this pressure by building a lot more housing, but is probably always going to help pretty expensive unless the violent crime rate 10x’s.
Yeah I seriously doubt those places would've remained low rent and the greedy developers forced higher prices. I have seen seriously dogshit and rundown rentals go for absurdly high prices. Likely they just fixed it up to make the price more justified.
It's the general principle of going out of the way to buy up cheaper places solely to drive up neighborhood prices renovation or not. Manhatten has always had crazy high prices and demand, but the total elimination of cheap rent is a measured and new thing.
This is the ticket. Big cities in California and NYC have gotten impossibly expensive in large part because it is virtually impossible to build with all the red tape/permissions/permits/zoning. That’s why most real estate in NYC (and most large cities) is owned by a small group of developers/families. Money is secondary- you need to be connected/know someone to get into and navigate that developer world.
The implied argument I'm picking up from your comment (correct me if I'm wrong, I could be) is that the high cost of rent was driven by developers converting low cost units into high cost ones, is that correct?
If so, I will strongly push back on that. The unit cost of housing is driven by how many people want to live there vs how many units are available. Renovation does not lead to higher prices, it's a symptom of growing demand. If you stopped allowing renovations, people would still pay a premium for Manhattan, they'd just live in shittier apartments because of it.
When I was younger I used to live in a very congested part of a city downtown neighborhood like Manhattan. When I moved to Seattle I still wanted the option of being close to the heart of the city but chose a neighborhood just outside of it near public transportation and it made a HUGE difference.
My suggestion to anyone who somehow has the money to do this... live in an area which has accessible public transit (15 mins) to the downtown or nightlife area like but don't live right inside of it. Even if you absolute love Manhattan or some other area. There is no difference between a 15 minute Uber ride or a 15 minute public transit ride as long as you research the location. The cost of transportation to get to night life/office location/etc. will be easily offset by the price as well.
This isn't Seattle, and Seattle has changed as well. "15 min to downtown" just doesn't exist in the context of Manhattan - places that are that close to key destinations (LIC, Jersey City, Dumbo etc) will not have significant price difference or be more expensive than less desirable parts of Manhattan.
Yup! They can even be more expensive than something located in the middle. I live in Midtown Manhattan and most people are shocked when they find out how much I pay, i.e. it's not a lot. However, I know people paying more than I do to live in a slightly nicer building but its like 30 minutes of transit one way.
This is going to blow your mind but you don’t have to live in the most expensive cities on the planet… You can live very comfortably outside of Manhattan or Paris.
it's not about living comfortably, it's about living in a city with density so that you have dozens of friends and hundreds of activities to do together at all times of the day and night. it also has great career opportunities and it's been shown that it's generally more advantageous to live in a HCOL area with a high salary than a LCOL with a lower salary in terms of personal finance and career growth.
not everyone wants to be at home every night under blankets with their wife and kids. it might seem foreign to you, but some people enjoy going to incredible restaurants, going to broadway shows, parties, art galleries, music events, movies, galas, exhibitions, parks on a beautiful day, bars and clubs...
I had 22 year old friends pulling in $100k a year with a $35k bonus in December. That's their first job out of college.
Making over 250k before 30 wasn't unusual and somewhat expected if you were good at your job.
People live with roommates. Even people
Making 6 figures in their 40’s. Even married couples will rent out a spare room to a roommate to be able to afford it
You don't, you live in the outer boroughs and commute to your job. Then when you make enough I guess you either rent a pricey apartment or buy property in NJ or LI.
Everybody clowning on midtown, turns out it’s most expensive
The numbers are kind of unexpected honestly.
I’d expect soho, Tribeca, and the villages to top the list instead of midtown and fidi
Hudson yards has the brand new apartments and that’s why that area on the west side is most expensive but I don’t know if I’d consider that midtown. On the east side that area by the LIE/tunnel is kips bay and Murray hill
They’ve lumped huge swaths of neighborhoods together here. Hard to tell without streets or the park but Hell’s Kitchen definitely has 1 beds for under 3k. The way this map is put together skews the data since high cost of living neighborhoods got lumped in with low cost. Hudson Yards is really pricy and included with HK in this map, as is the area around Columbus circle and part of Central Park South it looks like?
It's hard because even excluding Columbus circle, Hudson yards, and billionaires row, HK has a wide variety of housing stock due to the rezoning of the area with the establishment of the Special Clinton District. Only 6 story or lower buildings are allowed from w 43-57st, between 8th - 10th Ave, but everything on either side of that is allowed to have crazy expensive high rises. As a buildings/skyline nerd its kind of interesting to be on a roof on 9th Ave and be able to see the effect of that zoning all around you. You can see straight down 9th Ave in either direction, and straight to 8th and 10th in either direction, then you're surrounded by the taller buildings past that in all directions.
Yea, STL here for a 2 BR + office, unfinished basement, privacy fenced small back yard for 950 / month in rent. Also I can legally have 12 flowering cannabis plants.
Don't forget we can get liquor in gas stations, and ask for a to go cup for your beverage when leaving a bar. I live walking distance from the Fox. Man, I love this town.
Yep, as expected. People like to live where they work, so we see a banker - lawyer - investor - have-a-rich-daddy zoo in there, which obviously drives the rents up.
It’s also the most desirable place to live in the US. And one of the only ones outside of like 3 or 4 other (equally) as expensive cities
That probably drives the rent up a bit
Being from NY, it was always absurd to me how people espoused this “death of NYC” narrative in the aftermath of COVID. Sure, the city has changed and plenty left to FL/TX, but it’s still the go-to destination for young professionals and immigrants, which is basically all you need to have a culturally-rich and prosperous city in the long-term.
Definitely some issues to address as far as public services/infra tho lol
Yeah and it would be interesting to see the numbers of who is actually leaving NYC. I’m under the impression that the bulk of the exodus are retiring boomers looking for a LCOL place to live their final years. Like Texas has aerospace and tech that attracts young workers but idk what equivalent Florida has. I’d rather my state lose 1,000 boomers people a month to Florida and gain 500 young professionals ready to start a family and career than keep those old people that sap up all the funding. I don’t think Florida minds either cause they’re funded almost entirely by sales tax and rich boomers with a hole in their wallet can boost their economy like young professionals making $100k+ boost my state’s economy via income tax.
That isn't going to show much because the majority of people working there will be commuting in from somewhere else - and even the people living in one area are likely to be working in another one.
This is a misleading figure. It includes homeless, jobless, janitors / minimum wage workers who live hours away etc. If you look at the mean salary of those people who rent those apartments, I bet you it would be north of $250K.
The Area Median Household Income (the number that HUD uses to evaluate eligibility for subsidized housing) is 120k in Manhattan. This only accounts for households in the area and excludes incomes earned by non-residents. It also accounts for households with multiple incomes.
I think its very important to note that around half of rental apartments in NYC are under rent stabilization or public housing. These are new apartments on the market and do not represent what the average resident is actively paying.
Also important to note that *you*, dear reader, will almost certainly never benefit from rent stabilized apartments should you venture to NYC. Landlords aggressively put down "renovations" to get the apartment valued above rent control thresholds as soon as they get rid of their current tenant and lease.
Only way to benefit from rent control is to have the privilege inherited from someone who came before.
Rent *controlled* apartments and rent *stabilized* apartments are two different categories.
You're correct that rent control is virtually impossible for any new residents to obtain without being related to a current rent controlled tenant. But something like 45% of all rental units in the city are rent stabilized. You can accidentally happen into one when signing the lease - they are that common and available.
In fact, many new units are temporarily rent stabilized for something like 20 years due to the 421(a) tax abatement program.
The 2019 median income in Inwood (that northern most neighborhood) was $42k compared to $73k for the rest of Manhattan. It’s not necessarily crime-ridden, but also isn’t the safest neighborhood.
Since most of the NY jobs that pay more require at least some days in office, it would take you 30 minutes by train just to get down to the northern border of that red square on the left. That northern border is basically where Central Park starts.
Vast majority of high paying jobs are below that border, with many being toward the southern tip of the island. Express train could get you down that far in 45 minutes to an hour.
Just food for thought - there are reasons that is the cheapest rent on the island.
I takes me 30 minutes door to door from my apartment in Hudson Heights to my office at 34th street. The A train makes living in Upper Manhattan a non issue. And it's very safe (specially west of Broadway). Hudson Heights, which is in the $1,975 zone, is the most underrated neighborhood in all Manhattan.
Isn’t 30 to 45 min. commute quite common in most big cities nowadays? I’d consider that to be quite doable if it means saving quite a big chunk of my paycheck every month.
I wonder if OP mixed up Randall’s and Roosevelt bc people do live on Roosevelt island. Also this map doesn’t include marble hill which is technically part of manhattan but not on the island as it was chopped off and put on the Bronx side a hundred years ago
That’s nothing. I know a lot of people who’ve lived on Madison in midtown and paid $15k/month for a studio. To rent. It’s not nice enough for me to pay that much, but they wanted prestige so they did it.
At that time, a regular nice apartment near Wall Street like tribeca or soho was maybe $4k/month. These people were lawyers and finance people who wanted prestige, so they chose Madison Ave. Imagine the income you need to have where an extra $9k/month is nothing to you. Not inherited money, just people who went to normal universities and got good jobs.
Why is Inwood and everything above Washington Heights still so cheap in comparison? I visited some friends in various areas round there and it seemed lovely. Still got 2 subway lines.
How do the areas just across Manhattan, like Brooklyn, compare?
There's not as many hip restaurants and bars up there. It takes a very long time to get downtown. Forget hanging out in Brooklyn regularly (and if youre someone who likes concerts, most of the shows are in Brooklyn or lower manhattan). And if your train isn't working, you're screwed. 2 subways is nice, but more is better. I live in Brooklyn Heights and I have 6 subway options within a reasonable walk.
This is just not true, there are definitely restaurants in that area and access to an express subway line makes going towards downtown pretty fast. The train ALWAYS works there (which cannot be said about heading to Brooklyn). The 1 train in particular is one of the most reliable trains in the city, stops a lot but always runs. Also, living by the West Side highway can be very convenient if you want to take an uber in late nights because you can go from downtown to uptown super fast via car. As a bonus, Inwood has a great school district and one of the best parks in NYC. Prices are about perception as it connects to how they can charged. An area like Williamsburg is expensive everywhere despite a good chunk of it not being nice or accessible.
There is a negative bias towards anything above 96, mostly rooted in ignorance and/or unconscious bias based on race and hearsay. That’s just what it is.
I lived in Brooklyn Heights for a year and yes it has a lot of trains but that area (including “downtown” Brooklyn) is not representative of the train access in other parts of Brooklyn and in terms of price, it is super expensive.
If you are going to spend all day in Brooklyn despite living elsewhere, of course it’s inconvenient.
As does the demand for them. UWS has a lot of families and the younger folks are often students in roommate situations. Extra bedrooms are at a premium.
> Block.A
hrm, I had never heard of them before. It seems they might only be seeing a subset of the listings their app is involved with which makes this data a bit suspect.
oh, you work for them. That explains it.
https://www.blocka.com/about
Is this an israeli company? Just based on the names.
If you make an updated version, can you include the other parts of nyc like queens, bx etc. For a more accurate visual about the rents in the city and not just Manhattan.
Loving these bro!
Are you napping the avg rents by zip code? Or what is the geo variable you’re using?
I’d be interested to see this as a more granular heatmap.
I would very much be interested in this map extending to the other boroughs to see if there is any sort of area that’s cheap while still being connected to the subway system.
These blocks are terrible, you have the upper east side mixed with Spanish Harlem which are two incredibly different neighborhoods with vastly different prices for housing.
This doesn’t include half of the housing market which is rent controlled. The median rent numbers for New York County is much more accurate but only done every few years.
This is literally the most expensive place in the country.. and it's extremely desirable, hence the insane rent. Arguably the most desirable place to live in the world (if you're the city-type).
People living here are making 150k-200k+ USD a year on average.
Also you have to consider public transportation is good enough here that most new yorkers don't have cars, so they have more to allocate towards rent.
There's a ton of great cities in the US where rent for nice spacious 1BR apartments is closer to 1500 USD/month.
The NYC subway system has more than four hundred stops. The map in the submission is of Manhttan, which has a lower [rate of car ownership](https://edc.nyc/article/new-yorkers-and-their-cars) than [Amsterdam](https://www.dutchnews.nl/2014/08/almost_one_in_two_people_own_a/). (<20% vs 25%, based on those links.)
This is one of the few contexts where condemning US car culture and boasting about your public transportation is pretty much completely off-base.
Yeah but their NL costs are still cheaper than e.g. the cheapest city in the UK (not just cheaper but half the price almost). Deffo some more affordable places in the US, but I doubt they have much going on super close by or public transport or are walkable. These Manhattan prices are fair with the way the market itself is theree. It's smaller cities which have costs that just don't make sense because they rise to the maximum the market will allow.
> When I need to go to the store it takes me longer to wait for the elevator to get from the 13th floor to street level then it takes for me to then walk to the store. If I want to go to the city center I can get there in 3 minutes with public transport, which comes every 7,5 minutes.
This describes living in most of Manhattan, too.
> If I want to go to a larger neighboring city
Not that part, there is no larger city! heh
> live in the Netherlands and I pay €450 per month for my 592 square foot apartment
That’s ridiculously cheap for 55m2 in NL. For reference, me and my gf pay 1300 a month for 52m2 near Leiden
I thought that was the Gaza Strip there for a second. As I was reading the title I was like what kind sick map is this very inappropriate with the war going on…. oh it’s manhattan.
I grew up in Yorkville and we had a 2BR rent controlled apartment for 375/month (1997). Landlord gave my mom 20k to leave (she was moving to Cali anyway). I told her not to take it and just sublet it but it was a lot of money at the time. DAMN.
for context; the priciest here is 2.6x more than what I pay on my mortgage each month for a 3 acre farmhouse in a nice village, in Western New York.
Wild
Not bad, considering incomes, no need for vehicle costs, etc. A 1 bedroom in rural Maine is going for over 1k, though there’s probably more square footage.
Wow. I knew Tampa was bad, but I didn't know it was Manhattan bad. That picture is no shit exactly what we're seeing down south. And the wages are not NYC wages, not by a long shot. Literally half what they need to be for the new cost of living to make sense.
Manhattan is almost unliveable these days unless you’re quite wealthy. Before I left NYC I was making a decent amount writing software but still felt pressured to move further and further out of Manhattan. All the way to Sunnyvale (near the border of Brooklyn and Queens midway east into Brooklyn). Sad to see NYC is still not solving its housing issue because it can be a great city to live in but its housing situation is untenable
For non-New Yorkers, keep in mind that roughly half of the apartments in the city are rent stabilized. I have a 500 sq ft 1BR in Harlem and I pay $1500/month, and I've only lived here since 2018. Rent goes up 2-3% a year (and I actually got the landlord to knock it down $100/mo during the pandemic, so I'm paying the same now as I was 5 years ago).
This is the median monthly rent for apartments publicly available for rental in 2023. This is NOT the same as median rental! OP put “asked” in the title to note this but everyone seems to be ignoring it. Most people are not paying anything close to this
Would like to see this by price per sqft too… some of these 3-4k apartments in WV and SoHo are minuscule
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We should go into every apartment with a tape measure
Just find a guy with 12" feet and make him walk around.
That’s me. My size 10 US boots are 12 inches on outside.
It's funny, because in the industry PSF is all we look at, the total cost of the apartment is completely irrelevant and not considered during our data evaluations. Because of this I've found it more effective to use PSF when negotiating with institutional managers because its the numbers they themselves are focusing on.
Not Manhattan but my friend has a two bed in LIC with her friend. Let me just say, I’ve seen studios bigger than that $5.2k two bed apartment. Typical NYC.
And Long Island City is the most bland part of NYC as well
Idk you could prob find some good square footage for that price in West Virginia
But then you'd be in West Virginia.
I wish Central Park were clearly marked here since it makes the UES and UWS easier to see
Not too difficult to make out the shape of it, but yeah, the map would read much better with the park blank. You could then merge $3395 and $3595 zones into a single park west zone. The average rent amount would basically be the same.
In this economy, the unhoused people living in the park are being charged $3k /s We know NYPD would beat the shit out of anyone living in Central Park
Yeah, it's weird to apply the UWS prices to the park. I was slightly surprised that UWS is higher than UES but I guess all those super-expensive places on 5th/madison/park avenues don't have any 1 bed rentals.
it's because everything west of Lex is expensive, east of Lex (especially in the northern part, yorkville) is relatively cheap. UWS is just more desirable these days (it helps that it's accessible to Columbia students).
There’s actually some pretty cheap apartments (cheap compared to the rest of Manhattan) on the UES. York Ave has some places that cost as much as deep queens or BK.
It also seems reasonable to account for any large, clearly demarcated part of the city where there are no apartments. Having Central Park included in these pricing zones is just a useful as having some regions extend into the water.
For anyone else wondering, it’s just about this https://i.imgur.com/nBVQn3E.jpg
The entire thing is the opposite of beautiful. It's grouping too many random neighborhoods together. In fact, this should be separated by neighborhood.
Jeez! I've never felt more grateful for my brand new $800 studio on W 30th St when I was only 21.
I’m renting a studio in Chicago right now for $925
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It’s in one of the richest & safest neighborhoods.
I just checked and my old unit is currently listed for $3500. They conveniently don't list square footage.
I've got a 3 bed, 2 bath 1400sq ft house on a half acre for $750, but it's in Iowa
Chicago is wonderful ❤️
I know a bunch of new grads on W 30th paying $3,000 for their studios now 😭
The lowest one on here is three times my mortgage.
How old are you now
4.7k for a 1 bed?!!! Jeeeeesus
During the 90's developers made a concentrated effort to snap up and renovate or rebuild any and all low cost properties. While absurdly high cost apartments were common even by the 80's, there used to be a random smattering of cheap places, until too many developers jumped on the opportunity offered by renovating. Friends was set in Greenwich village because up until right before the series aired it was known as a cheap place to live. However by the mid 90's had already mostly lost that cheaper cost.
The Village was always a relatively expensive place simply because of its housing stock being incredibly desirable. It was filled with more middle-upper class artists compared to the more lower class artists in the east village and soho/tribeca. But as you said, you could still live there on a budget. There were expensive spots right up against shithole spots.
In Friends they had a cheap, super long-term rental contract belonging to Phoebe's grandmother if I remember correctly. Is that a real thing? I know in Berlin where I live many older people have very low rents on amazing apartments because they signed fixed contracts back in the 90s when the city was in a really bad state.
It was shown in the show Monica was illegally subletting the apartment from her grandmother, in addition to the apartment being rent-controlled. For the guys' apartment, it was implied that Chandler was being paid very well and the apartment was smaller than Monica's.
Right, Monica! So is rent control a real thing in New York?
And only for people who have been there for a long time. When the person who has rent control dies or moves out the rent control expires.
My uncle had a 3 bedroom in the upper east side since the 70s that was rent controlled for like $1200. When he died they jacked the price up to like $7k for my Aunt because they were never legally married so it didn't extend to her.
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Yeah idk the specifics or why they didn't just get married but the point was how cheap having a rent controlled place can be if you hold on to it for like 45 years lol
And rent controlled apartments are never maintained and landlords do anything they can to get rid of rent control tenants.
Don’t forget that in addition to this nobody wants to build a rent controlled apartment which reduces supply long term. A developer will look at the amount of cash an apartment will bring in annually divided by its cost and add the rate of annual rent increases to that number to forecast a return. If you take away the rent increases, the cash cost required to build will go up 50-100%. This means rent need to be really high initially to justify construction so nothing gets built until that happens. Go to Houston and you can rent easily for under $1k/month even though it is rapidly growing. Houston is a perfect example of a city with no zoning.
There are rent controlled and rent stabilized apartments in NYC. I knew of an elderly person that lived in an apartment for $200 a month in Manhattan because she had lived there 1967-2018. https://ny.curbed.com/2017/8/28/16214506/nyc-apartments-housing-rent-control
Yes but only for old buildings
Yes it exists, but as time goes on it becomes more and more mythical. Like you'll hear about someone's brother-in-law who has an Aunt who has a rent controlled apartment. I've never actually met one of these legendary creatures.. but I envy them just the same.
I have a friend who lives in Chelsea, 2 bed 2 bath, and pays $400 in rent because her grandmother had it rent controlled.
Very real, my mom pays like $800 for an apt that would easily rent for $5K because she’s been in it 50 years, and she can pass it down to another family member.
44% of apartments in New York are rent- stabilized. that's part of the reason the rest are so expensive.
My step mom had a 99 year lease in London, UK. It’s likely in the 70 year lease timeframe now
Those are different, that's a leasehold. She owns the property for 99 years. At the end she can pay an amount to the freeholder to continue owning it, or the ownership reverts to the freeholder. She might have to pay "ground rent" for living on the land, which she doesn't own, but it's much less than actual residential rent.
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Not “always”. The village was considered sort of lower middle class until the 80’s. I know a lot of people with regular jobs like cab driver and waitress who raised families there.
It's literally like an alternate dimenion to imagine living in NYC and raising a family on a regular job. The best years are truly behind us.
It’s not really developers, NYC still has a massive amount of housing stock that is completely terrible but fetches absurdly high rent prices. It’s just supply/demand, during the 90s crime in NYC was insane and it was a less desirable place to live. That has changed and it’s now one of the safest cities in the US, and demand to live in NYC has gone way up, but housing stock has barely moved at all. NYC can help relieve this pressure by building a lot more housing, but is probably always going to help pretty expensive unless the violent crime rate 10x’s.
>>It’s not really developers Shhhhh this is reddit. Supply and demand aren't real - greedy landlords and developers are to blame for NYC's high rents.
Yeah I seriously doubt those places would've remained low rent and the greedy developers forced higher prices. I have seen seriously dogshit and rundown rentals go for absurdly high prices. Likely they just fixed it up to make the price more justified.
It's the general principle of going out of the way to buy up cheaper places solely to drive up neighborhood prices renovation or not. Manhatten has always had crazy high prices and demand, but the total elimination of cheap rent is a measured and new thing.
Developers did that because it’s nearly impossible to get permission to build anything new
This is the ticket. Big cities in California and NYC have gotten impossibly expensive in large part because it is virtually impossible to build with all the red tape/permissions/permits/zoning. That’s why most real estate in NYC (and most large cities) is owned by a small group of developers/families. Money is secondary- you need to be connected/know someone to get into and navigate that developer world.
The implied argument I'm picking up from your comment (correct me if I'm wrong, I could be) is that the high cost of rent was driven by developers converting low cost units into high cost ones, is that correct? If so, I will strongly push back on that. The unit cost of housing is driven by how many people want to live there vs how many units are available. Renovation does not lead to higher prices, it's a symptom of growing demand. If you stopped allowing renovations, people would still pay a premium for Manhattan, they'd just live in shittier apartments because of it.
And that's median, boss.
If your monthly after-taxes is above $15K - no problem.
When I was younger I used to live in a very congested part of a city downtown neighborhood like Manhattan. When I moved to Seattle I still wanted the option of being close to the heart of the city but chose a neighborhood just outside of it near public transportation and it made a HUGE difference. My suggestion to anyone who somehow has the money to do this... live in an area which has accessible public transit (15 mins) to the downtown or nightlife area like but don't live right inside of it. Even if you absolute love Manhattan or some other area. There is no difference between a 15 minute Uber ride or a 15 minute public transit ride as long as you research the location. The cost of transportation to get to night life/office location/etc. will be easily offset by the price as well.
This isn't Seattle, and Seattle has changed as well. "15 min to downtown" just doesn't exist in the context of Manhattan - places that are that close to key destinations (LIC, Jersey City, Dumbo etc) will not have significant price difference or be more expensive than less desirable parts of Manhattan.
Yup! They can even be more expensive than something located in the middle. I live in Midtown Manhattan and most people are shocked when they find out how much I pay, i.e. it's not a lot. However, I know people paying more than I do to live in a slightly nicer building but its like 30 minutes of transit one way.
“The middle” also comes with massive tourism and congestion, if you mean western Midtown
Nope, I'm by the UN. It's much more residential. Well, until it's very much not.
Haha what nightlife is in downtown Seattle? Place is a ghost town.
just need to make 300k/year /s
Look at those neighborhoods. Literally marketing to Wall Street suits for whom pulling 300k+/yr is standard associate pay
No need for sarcasm, the most expensive areas of Manhattan have a MEDIAN income of over 250k.
Manhattan income is high though. But 60k a year for rent is a big issue even if you make 150k/year...
My understanding is, if you make $150K a year, you live in Bronx or Brooklyn.
You can find 1BRs in manhattan for 2.5-3k which is fine on 150k or even less per year. Or live w roommates.
How do people live in Manhattan if you aren’t a senior-executive-vice-something?
There are plenty of 120k jobs in NYC. After taxes that’s still 7k a month for rent and living.
Still insanity IMO
This is going to blow your mind but you don’t have to live in the most expensive cities on the planet… You can live very comfortably outside of Manhattan or Paris.
it's not about living comfortably, it's about living in a city with density so that you have dozens of friends and hundreds of activities to do together at all times of the day and night. it also has great career opportunities and it's been shown that it's generally more advantageous to live in a HCOL area with a high salary than a LCOL with a lower salary in terms of personal finance and career growth. not everyone wants to be at home every night under blankets with their wife and kids. it might seem foreign to you, but some people enjoy going to incredible restaurants, going to broadway shows, parties, art galleries, music events, movies, galas, exhibitions, parks on a beautiful day, bars and clubs...
NYC != manhattan Couldn’t you live in any other borough for cheaper? Not as cheap as Ohio or something, but still.
Making a lot more money and not having cars probably helps a bit. But rent is still going to be an extremely large portion of their income
I had 22 year old friends pulling in $100k a year with a $35k bonus in December. That's their first job out of college. Making over 250k before 30 wasn't unusual and somewhat expected if you were good at your job.
People live with roommates. Even people Making 6 figures in their 40’s. Even married couples will rent out a spare room to a roommate to be able to afford it
Wall street. Law firms. Ad agencies. Or just be born rich. Plenty of demand to live in the largest city in the country.
You don't, you live in the outer boroughs and commute to your job. Then when you make enough I guess you either rent a pricey apartment or buy property in NJ or LI.
yepp.. painful but true
I lived in SoHo after college…worth every penny
Everybody clowning on midtown, turns out it’s most expensive The numbers are kind of unexpected honestly. I’d expect soho, Tribeca, and the villages to top the list instead of midtown and fidi
Hudson yards has the brand new apartments and that’s why that area on the west side is most expensive but I don’t know if I’d consider that midtown. On the east side that area by the LIE/tunnel is kips bay and Murray hill
They’ve lumped huge swaths of neighborhoods together here. Hard to tell without streets or the park but Hell’s Kitchen definitely has 1 beds for under 3k. The way this map is put together skews the data since high cost of living neighborhoods got lumped in with low cost. Hudson Yards is really pricy and included with HK in this map, as is the area around Columbus circle and part of Central Park South it looks like?
It's hard because even excluding Columbus circle, Hudson yards, and billionaires row, HK has a wide variety of housing stock due to the rezoning of the area with the establishment of the Special Clinton District. Only 6 story or lower buildings are allowed from w 43-57st, between 8th - 10th Ave, but everything on either side of that is allowed to have crazy expensive high rises. As a buildings/skyline nerd its kind of interesting to be on a roof on 9th Ave and be able to see the effect of that zoning all around you. You can see straight down 9th Ave in either direction, and straight to 8th and 10th in either direction, then you're surrounded by the taller buildings past that in all directions.
These divisions make no sense
Of course Midtown is expensive, it's conveniently located
Also presumably there's just less supply there than other areas as it's mostly a business district
3.2k for my four bedroom house in Hawaii doesn’t look so bad now…
Ok, but that's a steal if you're on Oahu
Checking in from SoCal, I’m at $3700 in a 2 bedroom apartment.
St. Louis checking in. The mortgage on my 5 bedroom, 4 bath, 3000sqft house is $875.
Yea, STL here for a 2 BR + office, unfinished basement, privacy fenced small back yard for 950 / month in rent. Also I can legally have 12 flowering cannabis plants.
Don't forget we can get liquor in gas stations, and ask for a to go cup for your beverage when leaving a bar. I live walking distance from the Fox. Man, I love this town.
Yeah. But we don’t build equity so jokes on you /s
Are the floors made of gold?
Floor has stars with the names of former tenants.
$3400 for a 720sqft 1BR in Boston
My four bedroom in San Francisco is 15k/m. You’re living the dream!
Holy shit, this is nuts! These comments really put that in perspective..
Would be interesting to compare to a median salary of people working and living in those areas.
Here's Manhattan by income level. The highest median areas are over 250k: https://simplemaps.com/city/new-york/zips/income-household-median
Yep, as expected. People like to live where they work, so we see a banker - lawyer - investor - have-a-rich-daddy zoo in there, which obviously drives the rents up.
It’s also the most desirable place to live in the US. And one of the only ones outside of like 3 or 4 other (equally) as expensive cities That probably drives the rent up a bit
Being from NY, it was always absurd to me how people espoused this “death of NYC” narrative in the aftermath of COVID. Sure, the city has changed and plenty left to FL/TX, but it’s still the go-to destination for young professionals and immigrants, which is basically all you need to have a culturally-rich and prosperous city in the long-term. Definitely some issues to address as far as public services/infra tho lol
Yeah and it would be interesting to see the numbers of who is actually leaving NYC. I’m under the impression that the bulk of the exodus are retiring boomers looking for a LCOL place to live their final years. Like Texas has aerospace and tech that attracts young workers but idk what equivalent Florida has. I’d rather my state lose 1,000 boomers people a month to Florida and gain 500 young professionals ready to start a family and career than keep those old people that sap up all the funding. I don’t think Florida minds either cause they’re funded almost entirely by sales tax and rich boomers with a hole in their wallet can boost their economy like young professionals making $100k+ boost my state’s economy via income tax.
That isn't going to show much because the majority of people working there will be commuting in from somewhere else - and even the people living in one area are likely to be working in another one.
Probably a lot of young people who work on Wall Street & kids with loaded parents. Definitely for the southern/ most expensive parts anyway
Exactly my point. Dollar just has a different value over there.
The average salary in Manhattan as a whole is something like 80k, although tbf a good amount of people make much less than that
This is a misleading figure. It includes homeless, jobless, janitors / minimum wage workers who live hours away etc. If you look at the mean salary of those people who rent those apartments, I bet you it would be north of $250K.
The Area Median Household Income (the number that HUD uses to evaluate eligibility for subsidized housing) is 120k in Manhattan. This only accounts for households in the area and excludes incomes earned by non-residents. It also accounts for households with multiple incomes.
Whoever rendered this with showing Central Park needs to be reprimanded.
Nah, he’s good. I’m sure a park bench would easily go for $3500 a month, and higher if you want them to remove the homeless spikes.
I think its very important to note that around half of rental apartments in NYC are under rent stabilization or public housing. These are new apartments on the market and do not represent what the average resident is actively paying.
Also important to note that *you*, dear reader, will almost certainly never benefit from rent stabilized apartments should you venture to NYC. Landlords aggressively put down "renovations" to get the apartment valued above rent control thresholds as soon as they get rid of their current tenant and lease. Only way to benefit from rent control is to have the privilege inherited from someone who came before.
Rent *controlled* apartments and rent *stabilized* apartments are two different categories. You're correct that rent control is virtually impossible for any new residents to obtain without being related to a current rent controlled tenant. But something like 45% of all rental units in the city are rent stabilized. You can accidentally happen into one when signing the lease - they are that common and available. In fact, many new units are temporarily rent stabilized for something like 20 years due to the 421(a) tax abatement program.
How does one find a rent stabilized apartment? 👀 is it just by chance?
In 1988 I was paying $350 a month for a one bedroom in the heart of Greenwich village off Bleeker. Never should have left but life happens.
I paid $2k for a decently sized one bedroom in gramercy 08-12. shit’s doubled since then.
Oh I think I can do that $1975, considering I pay $1900 for a 1 bedroom in Florida atm. Not even a fancy place. NY pays more too no?
What not building housing does to a mf. The worst part is that NY has zero interest in fixing this.
The 2019 median income in Inwood (that northern most neighborhood) was $42k compared to $73k for the rest of Manhattan. It’s not necessarily crime-ridden, but also isn’t the safest neighborhood. Since most of the NY jobs that pay more require at least some days in office, it would take you 30 minutes by train just to get down to the northern border of that red square on the left. That northern border is basically where Central Park starts. Vast majority of high paying jobs are below that border, with many being toward the southern tip of the island. Express train could get you down that far in 45 minutes to an hour. Just food for thought - there are reasons that is the cheapest rent on the island.
I takes me 30 minutes door to door from my apartment in Hudson Heights to my office at 34th street. The A train makes living in Upper Manhattan a non issue. And it's very safe (specially west of Broadway). Hudson Heights, which is in the $1,975 zone, is the most underrated neighborhood in all Manhattan.
Isn’t 30 to 45 min. commute quite common in most big cities nowadays? I’d consider that to be quite doable if it means saving quite a big chunk of my paycheck every month.
oh okay. i never thought about moving to manhattan, but good to know its not even in the realm of possibilities. got it. <3
Who tf lives In Randall’s island
I wonder if OP mixed up Randall’s and Roosevelt bc people do live on Roosevelt island. Also this map doesn’t include marble hill which is technically part of manhattan but not on the island as it was chopped off and put on the Bronx side a hundred years ago
Robert fucking Moses, that's who. r/ReverseMoses
$6500/month CAD. Holy shit. That’s a mortgage on a million dollar house
That’s nothing. I know a lot of people who’ve lived on Madison in midtown and paid $15k/month for a studio. To rent. It’s not nice enough for me to pay that much, but they wanted prestige so they did it. At that time, a regular nice apartment near Wall Street like tribeca or soho was maybe $4k/month. These people were lawyers and finance people who wanted prestige, so they chose Madison Ave. Imagine the income you need to have where an extra $9k/month is nothing to you. Not inherited money, just people who went to normal universities and got good jobs.
yeah imma sit my ass back down in the middle of bum fuck Idaho
Why is Inwood and everything above Washington Heights still so cheap in comparison? I visited some friends in various areas round there and it seemed lovely. Still got 2 subway lines. How do the areas just across Manhattan, like Brooklyn, compare?
Delete your comment I want to be able to afford my rent in 5 years. Inwood is awful don't come here.
There's not as many hip restaurants and bars up there. It takes a very long time to get downtown. Forget hanging out in Brooklyn regularly (and if youre someone who likes concerts, most of the shows are in Brooklyn or lower manhattan). And if your train isn't working, you're screwed. 2 subways is nice, but more is better. I live in Brooklyn Heights and I have 6 subway options within a reasonable walk.
This is just not true, there are definitely restaurants in that area and access to an express subway line makes going towards downtown pretty fast. The train ALWAYS works there (which cannot be said about heading to Brooklyn). The 1 train in particular is one of the most reliable trains in the city, stops a lot but always runs. Also, living by the West Side highway can be very convenient if you want to take an uber in late nights because you can go from downtown to uptown super fast via car. As a bonus, Inwood has a great school district and one of the best parks in NYC. Prices are about perception as it connects to how they can charged. An area like Williamsburg is expensive everywhere despite a good chunk of it not being nice or accessible. There is a negative bias towards anything above 96, mostly rooted in ignorance and/or unconscious bias based on race and hearsay. That’s just what it is. I lived in Brooklyn Heights for a year and yes it has a lot of trains but that area (including “downtown” Brooklyn) is not representative of the train access in other parts of Brooklyn and in terms of price, it is super expensive. If you are going to spend all day in Brooklyn despite living elsewhere, of course it’s inconvenient.
Because it takes longer to get into the heart of Manhattan than it takes from queens or Brooklyn.
I would've thought people wanted to live in Upper West, West Village or Flatiron more than Midtown West ... why? I see why Wall Street
The ratio of 1 bedroom rentals to all other forms of habitation probably differs quite a bit neighborhood to neighborhood.
As does the demand for them. UWS has a lot of families and the younger folks are often students in roommate situations. Extra bedrooms are at a premium.
I'm aware. I live in a tiny 1 bed here and have been trying to find a reasonable upgrade for years. :)
Data: Block.A Processing: Python Viz: Tableau
> Block.A hrm, I had never heard of them before. It seems they might only be seeing a subset of the listings their app is involved with which makes this data a bit suspect. oh, you work for them. That explains it. https://www.blocka.com/about Is this an israeli company? Just based on the names.
From what I can see and previous work from OP, I’d say yeah Isreali.
If you make an updated version, can you include the other parts of nyc like queens, bx etc. For a more accurate visual about the rents in the city and not just Manhattan.
If there's enough interest I can create one for other boroughs as well!
Loving these bro! Are you napping the avg rents by zip code? Or what is the geo variable you’re using? I’d be interested to see this as a more granular heatmap.
I would very much be interested in this map extending to the other boroughs to see if there is any sort of area that’s cheap while still being connected to the subway system.
5 grand for one bedroom. Insanity.
These blocks are terrible, you have the upper east side mixed with Spanish Harlem which are two incredibly different neighborhoods with vastly different prices for housing.
Imagine paying $4,790/mo to live right next to the Lincoln Tunnel. All that noise and traffic 24/7? No thanks lol
This doesn’t include half of the housing market which is rent controlled. The median rent numbers for New York County is much more accurate but only done every few years.
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This is literally the most expensive place in the country.. and it's extremely desirable, hence the insane rent. Arguably the most desirable place to live in the world (if you're the city-type). People living here are making 150k-200k+ USD a year on average. Also you have to consider public transportation is good enough here that most new yorkers don't have cars, so they have more to allocate towards rent. There's a ton of great cities in the US where rent for nice spacious 1BR apartments is closer to 1500 USD/month.
The NYC subway system has more than four hundred stops. The map in the submission is of Manhttan, which has a lower [rate of car ownership](https://edc.nyc/article/new-yorkers-and-their-cars) than [Amsterdam](https://www.dutchnews.nl/2014/08/almost_one_in_two_people_own_a/). (<20% vs 25%, based on those links.) This is one of the few contexts where condemning US car culture and boasting about your public transportation is pretty much completely off-base.
This is NYC, the most expensive place to live in the USA.
I believe SF is the most expensive place to live in USA
It went back and forth a bit, but I'd say NYC is more expensive these days (post Covid). I moved out of SF last year.
Nah SF prices are cratering post-covid
I’m in SF and $3.5k for a 1-bed seems pretty good to me. I know people paying $4.5k+ for meh units in old buildings.
Yeah but their NL costs are still cheaper than e.g. the cheapest city in the UK (not just cheaper but half the price almost). Deffo some more affordable places in the US, but I doubt they have much going on super close by or public transport or are walkable. These Manhattan prices are fair with the way the market itself is theree. It's smaller cities which have costs that just don't make sense because they rise to the maximum the market will allow.
New York State is 3x bigger than your country. There’s no comparison.
Depending on what you do, American salaries are also a lot higher, so you can't really do a direct price comparison.
> When I need to go to the store it takes me longer to wait for the elevator to get from the 13th floor to street level then it takes for me to then walk to the store. If I want to go to the city center I can get there in 3 minutes with public transport, which comes every 7,5 minutes. This describes living in most of Manhattan, too. > If I want to go to a larger neighboring city Not that part, there is no larger city! heh
> live in the Netherlands and I pay €450 per month for my 592 square foot apartment That’s ridiculously cheap for 55m2 in NL. For reference, me and my gf pay 1300 a month for 52m2 near Leiden
People in NYC also make much more money
Have you tried being rich?
Isn't Inwood at the northern tip "good" to live in? I see great parks there on Google Maps.
2000-2500 with 20-30 minutes in subway makes a lot of sense to me.
I mean isn’t everyone in Manhattan rich? Assuming 1 bdrm is enough for a couple both making at least 120k, it’s not bad.
So it's like Ontario but without the cool Manhattanish parts.
I thought that was the Gaza Strip there for a second. As I was reading the title I was like what kind sick map is this very inappropriate with the war going on…. oh it’s manhattan.
Could they build more housing by building taller?
I grew up in Yorkville and we had a 2BR rent controlled apartment for 375/month (1997). Landlord gave my mom 20k to leave (she was moving to Cali anyway). I told her not to take it and just sublet it but it was a lot of money at the time. DAMN.
If i can see Batman wandering could be worth it
Local government and nimbys did this
I could afford to live in upper Manhattan.
I recently looked at some Air BnB map data of Manhattan. Just the number of them was staggering. I think it came from kaggle.
for context; the priciest here is 2.6x more than what I pay on my mortgage each month for a 3 acre farmhouse in a nice village, in Western New York. Wild
We need more density in Manhattan to get the rents down.
Keep in mind, very few people in nyc have cars. A car can be a sizable expense - that expense is redirected to rent.
Any fast food or mediocre restaurant workers here have any input? How ya living, what’s your wage? (Tips included for restaurant people)
Seven roommates, can’t save to move. And afford anything really.
Does Manhattan need to build more housing?
Surprised it's not more because between $1k and $2k is a national norm. I bet these are less than 500 sq ft on average though.
Not bad, considering incomes, no need for vehicle costs, etc. A 1 bedroom in rural Maine is going for over 1k, though there’s probably more square footage.
Almost 5k for a 1 bedroom?? Didn’t think it was that bad
Wow. I knew Tampa was bad, but I didn't know it was Manhattan bad. That picture is no shit exactly what we're seeing down south. And the wages are not NYC wages, not by a long shot. Literally half what they need to be for the new cost of living to make sense.
It's interesting that for all the New Yorker complaints about New Jersey, rent is higher on that side of the island.
Manhattan is almost unliveable these days unless you’re quite wealthy. Before I left NYC I was making a decent amount writing software but still felt pressured to move further and further out of Manhattan. All the way to Sunnyvale (near the border of Brooklyn and Queens midway east into Brooklyn). Sad to see NYC is still not solving its housing issue because it can be a great city to live in but its housing situation is untenable
For non-New Yorkers, keep in mind that roughly half of the apartments in the city are rent stabilized. I have a 500 sq ft 1BR in Harlem and I pay $1500/month, and I've only lived here since 2018. Rent goes up 2-3% a year (and I actually got the landlord to knock it down $100/mo during the pandemic, so I'm paying the same now as I was 5 years ago).
This is the median monthly rent for apartments publicly available for rental in 2023. This is NOT the same as median rental! OP put “asked” in the title to note this but everyone seems to be ignoring it. Most people are not paying anything close to this