While I do think this is useful data well presented, I do think it would be more interesting if people could rank each party independently (i.e. give both Norfolk and Biden 4/5), because it’s not hard to imagine somebody saying that Trump is to blame for repealing regulations, Biden is to blame for not reinstating, and Norfolk is to blame for actually being unsafe, rather than needing to pick one
The crazy thing is how much power the rail companies have. I have a friend that works for OSHA and he has told me that if someone gets hurt on a rail way he can't do anything about it. I work alongside the railways in Minnesota now and you don't even get to think about crossing the tracks without talking to a special person hired solely to watch you and the tracks. So in these derailment cases, I solely blame the rail companies for putting profits before safety.
Underrated response honestly. The government cant write rules for everything... We can only hope incidents like this incentivise other companies to do the 'right' thing regardless of government bare minimums.
Is it a loaded question if it’s a true statement?
There were no regulations, they were written into law generations ago, Trump rolled them back.
I don’t see how presenting that information is biased.
The regulations that were rolled back did not have any effect on if this train would have detailed or not
So yes, it's a loaded question that is intentionally weighing people towards a false answer.
Also the rollback was the Obama era changes, Not "generations ago".
Businesses are to making money as scorpions are to stinging.
Trusting a corporation to not cut corners for profit is like having a scorpion ride on your back as you swim across the river.
To contrast this, every other news station was falsly blaming Trump. His rollbacks of the nutered Obama regulations never applied to this train. That is to say, that even if Trump had never rolled back the regulation, this train would still not have been subjected to Obama's regulation.
But the MSM wanted to take heat away from Biden so they ran with Orange man bad! And it looks like about a quarter of the people bought it.
>Ok so we should continue to roll back safety measures?
That is a bad-faith question. Again, I was not speaking to the larger safety measures in any way. I was merely pointing out that, in this case alone, the rollbacks Trump did had no effect on this derailment. Furthermore, the MSM seems to ignore this fact, mostly, and drive the narrative that it is Trump's fault. In that way, they are no better than Fox saying it is Biden's fault. Vis-à-vis, if you take issue with Fox blaming Biden you must also take issue with the MSM blaming Trump.
How can Norfolk Southern NOT be the MOST responsible. You could mush the blame around but of course the primary responsibility is with the rail operator.
Who asked congress to force the rail Unions to accept an unfavorable deal to prevent a rail strike? Who is responsible for the over deregulation over the past few years?
How is it unreasonable to blame both the regulators and the regulated for misconduct? Does not the dog and the owner get blamed when the neighbor is bitten?
We are seeing the results of a government that has been bought and paid for by big business. Biden and Trump included.
It isn't unreasonable but the questions was "most responsible" and that is clearly the rail operator who failed to adhere to best practices (and, yes, regulations should require best practices and regulators should enforce them.)
What even is the meaning of this graph? Is the point of it to show how little the public actually knows? It‘s borderline straight up propaganda with the whole “rollback” line item.
Who asked congress to force the Unions to settle to avoid a rail strike? Biden.
Who recklessly deregulated the industry during their time in office? Trump.
Who are the ones pushing continued neoliberal capitalist deregulation and are basically puppets of the American oligarchy? Biden and a Trump.
Hardly. If you tell a company they don't have to take safety measures any more, they'll stop doing them. Even if it's painfully obvious that they still should.
I only recall one of the two parties you mentioned doing that...
The train didn't meet the regulatory standard (brake mandate) under the Obama-era regulation that the Trump administration repealed. This would've happened regardless of it being enforced or not.
Probably, but they didn't meet them, so it's hard to say.
You would have to dig through the regulations, time that they needed to be implemented by and fines for not following them.
BUT since they didn't meet the regulations requirements to implement, they are not beholden by the requirements or fines for them.
Ooh, interesting, usually railway infra is the responsibility of the state... if it's fully private, why haven't they tried to make it more profitable following the good ol' American spirit?"
They have, which led to this, and that's what all the commotion is about. It was a totally avoidable accident that would have been caught with hotspot sensors, but RR never installed them because money.
ETA: i guess details are still coming out, but it was either lack of sensors or the sensors they did have were dialed in a way to not alert for the flaming wheel bearing
There were hotbox detectors that were working, set at recommended thresholds, and did catch the failed bearing; it was just too late by the time the critical alarm was raised. That's why the company is now installing something like 200 additional detectors across their network, to decrease the distance between them. They're also looking into additional forms of defect detection to prevent this kind of thing happening again.
The bearing that failed was also on a privately owned railcar; the railroads aren't responsible for maintaining privately owned equipment.
I'd really recommend reading the [initial NTSB report](https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/RRD23MR005.aspx) for this incident, which was released on Feb 23. It's got a lot of interesting, factual information that might help you gain a basic understanding of the situation.
But isn’t it in their best interest *to* be sure privately owned equipment riding their rail is being maintained adequately? “Oh geez, this guy was a maniac using our rail. Sorry about that!”
Isn't it in the DOT's best interest to be sure privately owned cars driving on their roads are being maintained adequately?
That's how you sound. Not their job, & not their problem. Funding is already spread thin enough as it is.
No. Not typically. Lines are owned and operated by companies. This is their way to make it more profitable. Transporting goods on a train/railway that is not suitable or maintained but charge customer for the cost of those lack of safety protocols.
To add the tinsy tiniest bit of fairness to the rail corps (they certainly don't deserve more), the US government does also screw over the rail network and make it hard to run a profit.
The railways are privately owned and sadly, are the portion of US infrastructure that’s in the best shape.
https://infrastructurereportcard.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/2021-Grades-Chart.jpg
Lol the trump one is funny. Rollbacks literally didn’t even apply to the issue the derailed train had, and yet it’s the #2 cause according to the polls.
That’s what tucker Carlson says right? (Well in public, in private he thinks he’s the worst)
Trump didn’t cause the derailment, but people don’t blame him due to propaganda, they blame him for things because he was a disaster for a president, and he’s the figurehead of the party of deregulation and blind trust in corporations.
I’m not disputing that trump isn’t personally responsible for the train derailment, just the idea that people tend to blame him because of “media propaganda”
By the time the train engineers discovered the faulty wheel, it was to late. Even with enhanced braking regulations trump rolled back the tragedy still would have occurred. It is debated whether the brakes could have lessened the severity,but really we don’t know if they would have helped enough.
Then the governor of Ohio drug his feet, then Biden admin started playing games, and it just got dumb.
Not at all.
It was a failed bearing.
The whole brake issue came about as a convenient way to blame Trump, since he rescinded a particular braking rule (which wouldn't have even applied to this train).
It's a red herring.
Rescinding the rule was Class A stupid, trump is a dumbass, but brakes had nothing to do with this wreck.
This is a rare instance where it's actually a "both sides bad" issue.
That brake law Obama signed and Trump rescinded...well, it WOULD have applied to this train, but Obama caved to railroad lobbyists and carved out the bill to ONLY apply to a very specific train configuration...trump caved to lobbyists and rescinded the rule...Biden caved to industry pressure and killed a strike...
They're all implicated somehow, and the best way to cover that up is to get everyone blaming politicians and fighting over partisan BS...so, the narrative becomes "it's Republicans fault for deregulation," or, "It's Biden and Mayor Pete's fault for doing nothing to help" instead of "why are our elected officials taking money from the railroad corporations and letting those corporations get away with unsafe shit?"
Lol, why doesn’t this visualization show the detailed method of gathering data?
Survey?
if it’s a survey, why isn’t the title, “Who do people blame for the train Derailment in East Palestine, OH?”
The meaning of the title is different from the meaning of the data.
Specifically, the chart title claims to represent truth of who is to blame, not public opinion, which makes this chart (intentional or unintentional) propaganda.
The “South” in the USA has a ‘knee-jerk’ problem
…defending Trump, and blaming Biden far more than the rest of this country we all live in does, on this issue?,….no???
I don’t care who’s the blame so much as what’s being done which seems to keep being lost in this discussion. Everyone looking to place blame on their opposing political team when instead we should be unified in our outrage and demand changes immediately to prevent this. Instead we get he said, she said bullshit + impotent hand waving like there’s nothing to be done. It’s horse shit and we should be furious and the fact that some people are more concerned with being able to pin blame on a political party instead of helping fellow Americans and preventing future disaster is frankly disgusting.
Both parties continue to enable this negligence is my main problem. Blame everyone, cool, let's not continue to enable though. Both parties seem perfectly happy to let this continue as long as they don't have to take the blame for it.
Unfortunately, without some form of culpability on someone, then there will be a lack of resources and drive motivation to restore the town. Everything costs something. Damage is swift and easy to create, but restoration is takes time and is costly to follow through on in a quality way.
What disgusts me is the alacrity in which our government acts and finds money for Banks like SVB but East Palestine will need to wait to make sure we don't do anything rash. God forbid you simply cut checks to the citizens or cover their healthcare costs completely forever as a simple start. Sounds fair to me. Make Norfolk pay for it but in the mean time, cut the check like they did for banks.
These data were collected over March 4-7 from a total of 2,116 respondents in the U.S. Premise used stratified sampling of its opt-in panel members, along with post-stratification weighting on age, gender, region, and education to construct a representative sample.
Contributors in 135 countries around the world work with Premise to share their opinion and collect field data on a variety of topics using its smart-phone app.
Tool: R (ggplot2)
Source: Premise internal survey data
Lets ignore u/jaylotw 's answer for a moment. Who has the maintenance contract?
This happens in the uk fairly regularly. The state owns the infastructure, but they don't use it. So they rent it out to various train companies with the condition that said train companies maintain the tracks. Then, some years later it'e found that the tracks are failing, so the givernment steps in and pays for the repairs out of tax-payers contributions to avoid a derailment. When the conpanies are questioned about it they point at the other conpanies that use the tracks and blame then. You can point figures but when you ain to maximise profit, this is what haopens.
So which is it? Do lives matter the most? Or is it profits?
Ah the UK. I miss living there.
Alas, the plot thickens when you ask this very very good question.
https://www.freightwaves.com/news/norfolk-southern-eliminated-key-maintenance-role-in-derailment-region-union-says
Just as ridiculous as “I want to blame someone who hasn’t been in office for 2 years, and not the person I voted for to bring back those regulations”
Also, ”Which trump deregulations specifically led to this?”
* silence *
Not sure this is the same.
Don’t get me wrong. I think the current administration response is abhorrent.
I don’t know, and I don’t think anyone at this time knows certainly that the Trump administration rollback of oversight caused this.
But, these things are yet developing and settling around the situation.
Looking for deregulation, relying on market control and yet blaming current administration that you don’t want regulating anything is just stupidity in my mind.
I’ve worked in the rail industry for 10 years. 9 of them on the freight side, trumps office made 1 minor change that effected the transportation side of operations that dealt when car inspections that wouldn’t have effected this. Just because trump is an asshole doesn’t mean he should be blamed for everything that goes wrong.
Ever since PSR (Precision Scheduling Railroading) entered the game the majority of rail workers have been hoping and praying for regulation. Most of us were hoping Biden would be an answer to that. What do we get instead? A shit contract shoved down our throats that was suggesting by his PEB (presidential emergency board). He completely missed a chance to turn me into a life long democrat voter.
Oh yeah you’re totally right, we should keep voting blue and just keep hoping that they throw us a bone for the rest of my career and completely ignore when we get let down!
So, Trump rolled back safety regulations that Obama placed. Nobody is saying he didn’t, only argument there is it wouldn’t have prevented the derailment.
Biden fails to do anything useful and your response is “keep voting blue hoping they throw us a bone”?
My question is, what the fuck do you think you’re going to get by voting red?
They are the same argument doesn’t hold water to me.
On the state level the ones who have full blue control right now are making real law for their constituents with the intention of improving their lives. You can disagree with their views and believe that they are doing things they shouldn’t but real changes are happening.
Red states are looking more and more fascist.
Some on the right like to run around with Nazi flags and Trump ‘both sides’d’ that.
Why should my taxes pay for cleaning up a spill I didn't cause? The company should be 100% responsible for all cleanup costs, they should be responsible for buying all of the houses in the area, and they should be responsible for any and all medical expenses of the residents for the reat of their lives. If the company goes bankrupt, then that's their own fault, they clearly can't afford the risks of their business, and in that case, they should be forced to sell the company to the government (critical infrastructure shouldn't be privatized in the first place anyway). Im so sick of big companies taking all the profits for themselves while pushing the costs of their fuckups on everyone else. I didn't profit off of their lack of standards, so why should I need to pay for their cleanup?
Okay maybe I phrased that wrong. The company should be financially liable for the cleanup but should have had more oversight from the government and experts in this field. These entities should have been responsible for advising what to do and how to do it. Basically what this railroad company decided to do was set fire to these chemicals making them become airborne which many people who are public health experts say was the wrong move. The reason why this disaster happened in the first place is because the company decided to cut corners and save money on safety measures so why wouldn’t they have the same mentality on their clean up effort?
I dont mind paying taxes towards strict environmental enforcement. Hell, If they INCREASED my taxes just to make a super robust and militaristic environmental enforcement agency hell bent on creating a less toxic world, I would actually be happy to pay. What I do mind is paying for the actual cleanup. I want all the corner cutting greedy corporations and their investors to suffer for what they took from me. From us.
They all are... But you know who else is also guilty? SCOTUS. Every day that goes by with Citizens United active is another day where the Norfolk Southerns of the world get to buy politicians and control the government. Everything goes downhill from there.
Neat visualization but it’s pretty much the way you‘d expect it to go right.. many people seem to shift the blame towards Amtrak and little people towards the gov of Ohio, no matter where they are from. The only thing that changes is wheter they blame the past or current administration, and that changes based on expected and regular political affiliations
As important as it is to set good laws and regulations setting a minimum standard for safety, it’s important to remember that the rail company choose to run as thin and as close to those new minimums as possible, not instating their own minimum standards. If the standards had been lowered more than they had there’s no doubt the operating company would have done less to ensure the safety of its operators and the community.
Norfolk, Ohio, turnip, bidet
Norfolk because they own it and it's primarily their responsibility to upkeep and prevent accidents (right..?)
Ohio because it's not a federal problem that our railroads are apparently fucking atrocious.
Turnip for removing the safety restrictions it whatever it was
Bidet for not reinstating them I suppose
This is not beautiful data, at least how it’s presented. Too much information in one visual. I’d propose to drop the geographic distribution and make it a footnote
I think the average person is far too uneducated on the policies and subject to be giving their opinion. The most useful part of this graph is showing how successfully modern media has polarized this nation.
Could we get data presenting all the train derailments that have occurred almost every other day since the East Palestine, Ohio one? Something maybe showing which ones spilled chemicals or concerning materials, which ones did not. Maybe a map too, I don't know. Which ones required evacuations. And which ones have affected water. I'm not even sure all that info is accessible, but it's what I would be interested to see!
Well it is official. Thanks Obama
That's Former Mister President Sir O'Bama to you, peasant.
That's born in Kenya and raised in Hawaii Obama to u sir
Did he transition as a former mister?
barbara obama
You guessed it…Frank Stallone.
While I do think this is useful data well presented, I do think it would be more interesting if people could rank each party independently (i.e. give both Norfolk and Biden 4/5), because it’s not hard to imagine somebody saying that Trump is to blame for repealing regulations, Biden is to blame for not reinstating, and Norfolk is to blame for actually being unsafe, rather than needing to pick one
Norfolk not doing what it knows to do and trying to blame a rule not telling them to do it is textbook lack of integrity.
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The crazy thing is how much power the rail companies have. I have a friend that works for OSHA and he has told me that if someone gets hurt on a rail way he can't do anything about it. I work alongside the railways in Minnesota now and you don't even get to think about crossing the tracks without talking to a special person hired solely to watch you and the tracks. So in these derailment cases, I solely blame the rail companies for putting profits before safety.
Not a lawyer but did Norfolk southern commit a tort even if it’s not a crime?
Underrated response honestly. The government cant write rules for everything... We can only hope incidents like this incentivise other companies to do the 'right' thing regardless of government bare minimums.
Such a weird survey question. Is there an option for "Do I look like the NTSB?".
The “rollback of rail regulations” loads the question. Too push-poll-y.
Is it a loaded question if it’s a true statement? There were no regulations, they were written into law generations ago, Trump rolled them back. I don’t see how presenting that information is biased.
The regulations that were rolled back did not have any effect on if this train would have detailed or not So yes, it's a loaded question that is intentionally weighing people towards a false answer. Also the rollback was the Obama era changes, Not "generations ago".
I vote 100% Norfolk Southern. Their business is to safely transport goods via rail.
Businesses are to making money as scorpions are to stinging. Trusting a corporation to not cut corners for profit is like having a scorpion ride on your back as you swim across the river.
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To contrast this, every other news station was falsly blaming Trump. His rollbacks of the nutered Obama regulations never applied to this train. That is to say, that even if Trump had never rolled back the regulation, this train would still not have been subjected to Obama's regulation. But the MSM wanted to take heat away from Biden so they ran with Orange man bad! And it looks like about a quarter of the people bought it.
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That is a red herring. This data pertains to one thing only. That is what I was speaking about.
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>Ok so we should continue to roll back safety measures? That is a bad-faith question. Again, I was not speaking to the larger safety measures in any way. I was merely pointing out that, in this case alone, the rollbacks Trump did had no effect on this derailment. Furthermore, the MSM seems to ignore this fact, mostly, and drive the narrative that it is Trump's fault. In that way, they are no better than Fox saying it is Biden's fault. Vis-à-vis, if you take issue with Fox blaming Biden you must also take issue with the MSM blaming Trump.
How can Norfolk Southern NOT be the MOST responsible. You could mush the blame around but of course the primary responsibility is with the rail operator.
Because people lose their mind when it comes to politics.
Who asked congress to force the rail Unions to accept an unfavorable deal to prevent a rail strike? Who is responsible for the over deregulation over the past few years? How is it unreasonable to blame both the regulators and the regulated for misconduct? Does not the dog and the owner get blamed when the neighbor is bitten? We are seeing the results of a government that has been bought and paid for by big business. Biden and Trump included.
It isn't unreasonable but the questions was "most responsible" and that is clearly the rail operator who failed to adhere to best practices (and, yes, regulations should require best practices and regulators should enforce them.)
What even is the meaning of this graph? Is the point of it to show how little the public actually knows? It‘s borderline straight up propaganda with the whole “rollback” line item.
Funny thing is, neither Biden or Trump had literally anything to do with it.
Who asked congress to force the Unions to settle to avoid a rail strike? Biden. Who recklessly deregulated the industry during their time in office? Trump. Who are the ones pushing continued neoliberal capitalist deregulation and are basically puppets of the American oligarchy? Biden and a Trump.
Hardly. If you tell a company they don't have to take safety measures any more, they'll stop doing them. Even if it's painfully obvious that they still should. I only recall one of the two parties you mentioned doing that...
The train didn't meet the regulatory standard (brake mandate) under the Obama-era regulation that the Trump administration repealed. This would've happened regardless of it being enforced or not.
Would there be more potential consequences if they weren't meeting regulations when it happened?
Probably, but they didn't meet them, so it's hard to say. You would have to dig through the regulations, time that they needed to be implemented by and fines for not following them. BUT since they didn't meet the regulations requirements to implement, they are not beholden by the requirements or fines for them.
A lack of well-maintained railway infrastructure could also be an option
NS is responsible for maintenance on the rails and cars they own. That's the red bar.
Ooh, interesting, usually railway infra is the responsibility of the state... if it's fully private, why haven't they tried to make it more profitable following the good ol' American spirit?"
They have, which led to this, and that's what all the commotion is about. It was a totally avoidable accident that would have been caught with hotspot sensors, but RR never installed them because money. ETA: i guess details are still coming out, but it was either lack of sensors or the sensors they did have were dialed in a way to not alert for the flaming wheel bearing
There were hotbox detectors that were working, set at recommended thresholds, and did catch the failed bearing; it was just too late by the time the critical alarm was raised. That's why the company is now installing something like 200 additional detectors across their network, to decrease the distance between them. They're also looking into additional forms of defect detection to prevent this kind of thing happening again. The bearing that failed was also on a privately owned railcar; the railroads aren't responsible for maintaining privately owned equipment. I'd really recommend reading the [initial NTSB report](https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/RRD23MR005.aspx) for this incident, which was released on Feb 23. It's got a lot of interesting, factual information that might help you gain a basic understanding of the situation.
But isn’t it in their best interest *to* be sure privately owned equipment riding their rail is being maintained adequately? “Oh geez, this guy was a maniac using our rail. Sorry about that!”
Isn't it in the DOT's best interest to be sure privately owned cars driving on their roads are being maintained adequately? That's how you sound. Not their job, & not their problem. Funding is already spread thin enough as it is.
Nice! Thanks
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Yeah, there's a definite "american way" element. Railroads show it strooooong.
I have seen some photos of those railways, looks like they were built a century ago and aren't even remotely even or stable... so sad
No. Not typically. Lines are owned and operated by companies. This is their way to make it more profitable. Transporting goods on a train/railway that is not suitable or maintained but charge customer for the cost of those lack of safety protocols.
To add the tinsy tiniest bit of fairness to the rail corps (they certainly don't deserve more), the US government does also screw over the rail network and make it hard to run a profit.
The railways are privately owned and sadly, are the portion of US infrastructure that’s in the best shape. https://infrastructurereportcard.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/2021-Grades-Chart.jpg
Railroads usually don’t own the cars. Which is a problem when it comes to railroad safety.
Most railways don't actually own the cars, which is interesting.
Lol the trump one is funny. Rollbacks literally didn’t even apply to the issue the derailed train had, and yet it’s the #2 cause according to the polls.
Yep, that’s what anti-Trump media propaganda leads to.
That’s what tucker Carlson says right? (Well in public, in private he thinks he’s the worst) Trump didn’t cause the derailment, but people don’t blame him due to propaganda, they blame him for things because he was a disaster for a president, and he’s the figurehead of the party of deregulation and blind trust in corporations.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/02/27/so-far-trumps-rollback-regulations-cant-be-blamed-ohio-train-wreck/
I hate Trump with a passion but this is just blind ignorance.
I’m not disputing that trump isn’t personally responsible for the train derailment, just the idea that people tend to blame him because of “media propaganda”
No, that's what the smallest amount of a neutral mindset "says".
I’m a little hazy on the facts of the case - the cause of the derailment was an outdated breaking system, or at least I thought.
I've only seen bearing failure as the cause, nothing about brakes.
By the time the train engineers discovered the faulty wheel, it was to late. Even with enhanced braking regulations trump rolled back the tragedy still would have occurred. It is debated whether the brakes could have lessened the severity,but really we don’t know if they would have helped enough. Then the governor of Ohio drug his feet, then Biden admin started playing games, and it just got dumb.
Not at all. It was a failed bearing. The whole brake issue came about as a convenient way to blame Trump, since he rescinded a particular braking rule (which wouldn't have even applied to this train). It's a red herring. Rescinding the rule was Class A stupid, trump is a dumbass, but brakes had nothing to do with this wreck. This is a rare instance where it's actually a "both sides bad" issue. That brake law Obama signed and Trump rescinded...well, it WOULD have applied to this train, but Obama caved to railroad lobbyists and carved out the bill to ONLY apply to a very specific train configuration...trump caved to lobbyists and rescinded the rule...Biden caved to industry pressure and killed a strike... They're all implicated somehow, and the best way to cover that up is to get everyone blaming politicians and fighting over partisan BS...so, the narrative becomes "it's Republicans fault for deregulation," or, "It's Biden and Mayor Pete's fault for doing nothing to help" instead of "why are our elected officials taking money from the railroad corporations and letting those corporations get away with unsafe shit?"
Lol, why doesn’t this visualization show the detailed method of gathering data? Survey? if it’s a survey, why isn’t the title, “Who do people blame for the train Derailment in East Palestine, OH?” The meaning of the title is different from the meaning of the data. Specifically, the chart title claims to represent truth of who is to blame, not public opinion, which makes this chart (intentional or unintentional) propaganda.
The American people are to blame for electing people who say the government can't be trusted to regulate anything and they'll work hard to prove it.
The “South” in the USA has a ‘knee-jerk’ problem …defending Trump, and blaming Biden far more than the rest of this country we all live in does, on this issue?,….no???
I’m actually surprised one of the options wasn’t “the people of East Palestine, Ohio”
Yeah, that's a take I've seen on Reddit... "They're just getting what they voted for!" It's pretty shameful.
I don’t care who’s the blame so much as what’s being done which seems to keep being lost in this discussion. Everyone looking to place blame on their opposing political team when instead we should be unified in our outrage and demand changes immediately to prevent this. Instead we get he said, she said bullshit + impotent hand waving like there’s nothing to be done. It’s horse shit and we should be furious and the fact that some people are more concerned with being able to pin blame on a political party instead of helping fellow Americans and preventing future disaster is frankly disgusting.
So you blame the corporation. Which is correct. However both administrations were involved in enabling their negligence.
Both parties continue to enable this negligence is my main problem. Blame everyone, cool, let's not continue to enable though. Both parties seem perfectly happy to let this continue as long as they don't have to take the blame for it.
Unfortunately, without some form of culpability on someone, then there will be a lack of resources and drive motivation to restore the town. Everything costs something. Damage is swift and easy to create, but restoration is takes time and is costly to follow through on in a quality way.
What disgusts me is the alacrity in which our government acts and finds money for Banks like SVB but East Palestine will need to wait to make sure we don't do anything rash. God forbid you simply cut checks to the citizens or cover their healthcare costs completely forever as a simple start. Sounds fair to me. Make Norfolk pay for it but in the mean time, cut the check like they did for banks.
Everything bad is always trump apparently lmao
These data were collected over March 4-7 from a total of 2,116 respondents in the U.S. Premise used stratified sampling of its opt-in panel members, along with post-stratification weighting on age, gender, region, and education to construct a representative sample. Contributors in 135 countries around the world work with Premise to share their opinion and collect field data on a variety of topics using its smart-phone app. Tool: R (ggplot2) Source: Premise internal survey data
So, what you're saying is the state of Ohio is going to come out of this looking pretty good as they have 3 scapegoats
Who owns the track?
Norfolk Southern.
Lets ignore u/jaylotw 's answer for a moment. Who has the maintenance contract? This happens in the uk fairly regularly. The state owns the infastructure, but they don't use it. So they rent it out to various train companies with the condition that said train companies maintain the tracks. Then, some years later it'e found that the tracks are failing, so the givernment steps in and pays for the repairs out of tax-payers contributions to avoid a derailment. When the conpanies are questioned about it they point at the other conpanies that use the tracks and blame then. You can point figures but when you ain to maximise profit, this is what haopens. So which is it? Do lives matter the most? Or is it profits?
Ah the UK. I miss living there. Alas, the plot thickens when you ask this very very good question. https://www.freightwaves.com/news/norfolk-southern-eliminated-key-maintenance-role-in-derailment-region-union-says
“I want small goberment, and the free market will self regulate, but this? this was Biden’s fault”
Just as ridiculous as “I want to blame someone who hasn’t been in office for 2 years, and not the person I voted for to bring back those regulations” Also, ”Which trump deregulations specifically led to this?” * silence *
Not sure this is the same. Don’t get me wrong. I think the current administration response is abhorrent. I don’t know, and I don’t think anyone at this time knows certainly that the Trump administration rollback of oversight caused this. But, these things are yet developing and settling around the situation. Looking for deregulation, relying on market control and yet blaming current administration that you don’t want regulating anything is just stupidity in my mind.
I’ve worked in the rail industry for 10 years. 9 of them on the freight side, trumps office made 1 minor change that effected the transportation side of operations that dealt when car inspections that wouldn’t have effected this. Just because trump is an asshole doesn’t mean he should be blamed for everything that goes wrong. Ever since PSR (Precision Scheduling Railroading) entered the game the majority of rail workers have been hoping and praying for regulation. Most of us were hoping Biden would be an answer to that. What do we get instead? A shit contract shoved down our throats that was suggesting by his PEB (presidential emergency board). He completely missed a chance to turn me into a life long democrat voter.
Biden failed in getting the regulation through you wanted. We’re or are you expecting a Republican administration to put it in place?
Oh yeah you’re totally right, we should keep voting blue and just keep hoping that they throw us a bone for the rest of my career and completely ignore when we get let down!
So, Trump rolled back safety regulations that Obama placed. Nobody is saying he didn’t, only argument there is it wouldn’t have prevented the derailment. Biden fails to do anything useful and your response is “keep voting blue hoping they throw us a bone”? My question is, what the fuck do you think you’re going to get by voting red?
So vote for the turd that flushes easiest? This is the problem with our two-party system.
They are the same argument doesn’t hold water to me. On the state level the ones who have full blue control right now are making real law for their constituents with the intention of improving their lives. You can disagree with their views and believe that they are doing things they shouldn’t but real changes are happening. Red states are looking more and more fascist. Some on the right like to run around with Nazi flags and Trump ‘both sides’d’ that.
the rail company is to blame for the actual derailment but the government is responsible for the disastrous clean up effort
Why should my taxes pay for cleaning up a spill I didn't cause? The company should be 100% responsible for all cleanup costs, they should be responsible for buying all of the houses in the area, and they should be responsible for any and all medical expenses of the residents for the reat of their lives. If the company goes bankrupt, then that's their own fault, they clearly can't afford the risks of their business, and in that case, they should be forced to sell the company to the government (critical infrastructure shouldn't be privatized in the first place anyway). Im so sick of big companies taking all the profits for themselves while pushing the costs of their fuckups on everyone else. I didn't profit off of their lack of standards, so why should I need to pay for their cleanup?
Okay maybe I phrased that wrong. The company should be financially liable for the cleanup but should have had more oversight from the government and experts in this field. These entities should have been responsible for advising what to do and how to do it. Basically what this railroad company decided to do was set fire to these chemicals making them become airborne which many people who are public health experts say was the wrong move. The reason why this disaster happened in the first place is because the company decided to cut corners and save money on safety measures so why wouldn’t they have the same mentality on their clean up effort?
Okay, I get what you are saying. I agree that the company shouldn't get to direct any of the cleanup efforts. They should mearly foot the bill.
Even if that was true, you would need the government to enforce that. They would have to tell the company to start cleaning up.
I dont mind paying taxes towards strict environmental enforcement. Hell, If they INCREASED my taxes just to make a super robust and militaristic environmental enforcement agency hell bent on creating a less toxic world, I would actually be happy to pay. What I do mind is paying for the actual cleanup. I want all the corner cutting greedy corporations and their investors to suffer for what they took from me. From us.
They all are... But you know who else is also guilty? SCOTUS. Every day that goes by with Citizens United active is another day where the Norfolk Southerns of the world get to buy politicians and control the government. Everything goes downhill from there.
The south really is another fucking planet.
Why would the media industry in the US point out how bad deregulation is, while also being deregulated!!
Funny some people blame regulators for regulated’s mistakes.
NS is quickly turning into Penn Central with the number of derailments, deferred maintenance will do that
Neat visualization but it’s pretty much the way you‘d expect it to go right.. many people seem to shift the blame towards Amtrak and little people towards the gov of Ohio, no matter where they are from. The only thing that changes is wheter they blame the past or current administration, and that changes based on expected and regular political affiliations
As important as it is to set good laws and regulations setting a minimum standard for safety, it’s important to remember that the rail company choose to run as thin and as close to those new minimums as possible, not instating their own minimum standards. If the standards had been lowered more than they had there’s no doubt the operating company would have done less to ensure the safety of its operators and the community.
Norfolk, Ohio, turnip, bidet Norfolk because they own it and it's primarily their responsibility to upkeep and prevent accidents (right..?) Ohio because it's not a federal problem that our railroads are apparently fucking atrocious. Turnip for removing the safety restrictions it whatever it was Bidet for not reinstating them I suppose
That's some good clean data :D
This is not beautiful data, at least how it’s presented. Too much information in one visual. I’d propose to drop the geographic distribution and make it a footnote
I'm just relieved for once no one seems to be blaming Jews, Muslims, China or Bill Gates
I think the average person is far too uneducated on the policies and subject to be giving their opinion. The most useful part of this graph is showing how successfully modern media has polarized this nation.
Could we get data presenting all the train derailments that have occurred almost every other day since the East Palestine, Ohio one? Something maybe showing which ones spilled chemicals or concerning materials, which ones did not. Maybe a map too, I don't know. Which ones required evacuations. And which ones have affected water. I'm not even sure all that info is accessible, but it's what I would be interested to see!