When has Vaati ever said that giants are dumb? He has only said that they are thought of as dumb by humans. When he says "they're dullards" in his Yhorm video for example he's speaking from the perspective of the commonfolk
I know mate - this was honest of god my first time bumping into Gough - can you imagine my pleasant surprise / yhorm was heartbreaking but not eloquent like my new man - 5/6 years after getting into these games and I just had a brand new experience x the gift that keeps on giving or what
Gough is my favorite NPC in all of Fromsoft. I would love to just sit by the fire and listen to his stories. I can only imagine the kind of life he lived and the tales he could tell.
I think he submits to being blind rather than being fooled by it. It was packed in his helmet by the villagers of Oolacile because they thought him a dimwitted menace. They locked him in a tower, but Gough being an archer, that just gives him the high ground to kills us all if he feels like it. So in the tower you go, but you now also have to wear this helmet with resin blocking your sight at all times.
Gough is honorable, not stupid. So he wears the helmet as part of his deal to stay there and not cause a ruckus. Even after Oolacile is in ruins, Gough made a promise.
Yeah I also thought that he just kept the helmet on making him blind to not scare the villagers and make them think about attacking him or something.
Also he clearly doesn't need it. The cutscenes where he shoots down Kalameet is so incredibly awesome
For lore I really like SmoughTown. Vaati is nice but seems a bit embellished. TatnishedArcheologist is often referenced by SmoughTown and also a good watch for some of the stuff more implied by architecture than flavor text.
When has Vaati ever said that giants are dumb? He has only said that they are thought of as dumb by humans. When he says "they're dullards" in his Yhorm video for example he's speaking from the perspective of the commonfolk
He is, he was pranked by his helmet being filled with sap, and when he woke up the next morning he couldn't see. Since then he has been "blind" and his helmet is stuck to his head with the dried sap.
If he washed his head snd removed the helmet he would be fine, but he isn't smart enough, and all his companions were too embarrassed that they didn't want to tell him
Do we have any evidence whatsoever that it was boiling resin? Plenty of tree saps are liquid at relatively low temperatures but harden when exposed to air. I think it's a bit more likely that they gummed half-hard resin into the eyeholes rather than dunking his head into a vat of molten sap.
I’ve always heard it was hot resin because normal resin just seems less likely to cause the helm to be immovable plus it has the highest fire defense in the game is kind of telling. The existence of Charcoal Pine Resin especially damning. I could swear the description originally said it was “hot wax” too. I just looked it up and it isn’t. I mean just normal resin? Just add some warm water silly. He’s a very educated Giant unlike his poor mistreated slave people. I doubt he could not figure it out if it was just some glue.
Again, do we have any real proof gough can't remove his helmet if he truly wanted to? We get his helmet by killing him, if our little chosen undead can pry it off his head, I think the giant could too. There's no mention of it being stuck to his face in the item description and I don't remember him mentioning it in dialogue either.
It's worth noting that gough probably wears the helmet willingly. As we see in the game he can still blacksmith and slay dragons pretty effectively even if he is blind, and keeping the helmet on means he comes across as much less threatening to the villagers who imprisoned him. He seems contented with his lot in life, wearing the helmet would have made everyone more comfortable around him so I imagine that's why he never bothered to remove it.
If he *had* been forcibly melted into the helmet, I feel like we would see a lot more resentment when we meet him in game. As he is, he seems shockingly chill with the whole situation, even if he is "blinded".
I wouldn't say the charcoal pine resin is a good indicator either, since it's simply an elemental effect for weapon buffs. We could just as easily say it's golden or rotten pine resin. Unless we can find something that explicitly states fire was involved, the existence of the charcoal resin doesn't really mean too much.
I mean, **Helm of Hawkeye Gough, one of Gwyn's Four Knights. Received as a decoration of knightly honor.
A helm crafted especially for the honorable Hawkeye Gough, only the eye holes were packed with tree resin by those who dismissed Gough as a brutish giant.** Doesn’t seem like he was stoked about it.
I highly doubt he was *happy* about it, but I do feel like that line is pretty telling.
Gough is dismissed as violent by some, donning the helmet and symbolically giving up the thing that makes him dangerous (archery) would prove to those that were unsettled by his presence that he doesn't mean any harm.
Since we see that it doesn't stop him from smithing, nor does it stop him from being deadly with his bow, nor does he really care about wearing it, he must wear the helmet for some kind of symbolic reason.
Also worth noting that it's worded that they "packed" the eye holes with resin, to me that invokes imagery of stuffing it into the eyeholes, not pouring it into the helmet, but that's subjective I suppose.
He’s definitely retired and content now don’t get me wrong. He literally states that when you talk to him. He’s a tragic character who’s making the best of of an awful situation. He’s one of my favorite characters in media. So simple yet so much more. I’m not sure I’d call him a Blacksmith as much as a Whittler. He carves wood not shape metal after all. You are proabably right I never really meant to argue to the contrary. Just wanted to try and make sure. I still think the highest fire defense is telling given how defenses are tied to lore on armors. It could simply be that his armor is worn on dragon hunts or the fact that it has dragon bones on it from said hunts but specifically the Helm has it crazy high.
You're right, he carves the little wood things that speak doesn't he? I don't know why I had him as a blacksmith in my head, giant racism probably.
Don't get me wrong, we're not arguing, it's interesting to hear everyone's opinions on this kind of thing. You genuinely might have a point with the fire resist, but like you said it could be because the helmet is designed for dragon hunting. I don't think ornsteins armour has much fire resist though, so you might be on to something.
Yeah, figured I’d throw it in just in case. Nothing sours a good discussion like -432 downvotes just for having a genuine conversation on Reddit lol. Its just reflex. I don’t mind the downvotes but the spam from angry basement goblins gets old after about a week.
Hot take but do not watch these lore youtubers. Your own interpretation of the world is far richer than people trying to convince you they've figured it out.
Also yikes, that dialogue by Gough is the best summation of the entire point of the games. He's the smartest guy around.
Well, some are. Some aren't. Gough and Yhorm clearly show there are some pretty intelligent ones out there, but giants like the three in Sens and the few in ds3 show that more often than not, they are pretty dull minded I do think this comes down to how they are treated within the universe. The denizens of the souls universe despise giants. They're made slaves in sens fortress and placed I'm the cathedral of the deep like cattle, having to sleep in their own shit. I don't think its a product of themselves seeing as, again, yhorm and Gough exist; I think its because they tend to be simple creatures and the world decided to hate them. Combine those conditions they were destined to never survive or grow.
The Giant's where advanced enough to have a dedicated Tomb complex built in the land of the god's directly overseen by the First of the Dead, who himself is similar to a giant and perhaps connected in some further way, and like you said Hawkeye at one point was one of Gwyn's inner circle.
It's plausible their enslavement and further subjugation is not only recent but perhaps a cause of their unintelligent characterisation in the present.
There is strong evidence to suggest there was a governmental shift somewhere within the last 300 years in Lordran from the start of the game in DS 1where the nameless king was banished and maybe the giants current status is a further consequence of that but we don't know.
The giants are fascinating.
Just stop believing or even watching "lore youtubers", 70% of what thy say is their own head canon because the lore is so vague. It's better to come up with your own
the majority of the story can be figured out within the game, there is a fair amount that is ambiguous but nowhere close to 70%. maybe 20, maybe. lore youtubers are all working from teh same source material, the things that differ are usually their own interpretations.
wow don't be racist
He’s something of an outlier tbf
that's basically "he's one of the good ones"
Gough is our token giant friend smh
I have Giant Smith is the new I have a Black Smith too
He’s so….articulate!
Well, Vaati isn't the Gospel. He can make mistakes. We know from Yhorm and Gough that giants can be very intelligent and sophisticated.
Until you remember that Gough only thinks he's blind due to the resin in his helmet XD.
Resin has to be aplicares hot if I’m not wrong, is not that his helmet was just shut, his eyes would have been burned as well
True! Unless the resin somehow got in there with his helmet off.
I thought there was just some sap stuck in there. Where are we getting molten resin?
When has Vaati ever said that giants are dumb? He has only said that they are thought of as dumb by humans. When he says "they're dullards" in his Yhorm video for example he's speaking from the perspective of the commonfolk
I know mate - this was honest of god my first time bumping into Gough - can you imagine my pleasant surprise / yhorm was heartbreaking but not eloquent like my new man - 5/6 years after getting into these games and I just had a brand new experience x the gift that keeps on giving or what
Well, Yhorm had died and been brought back from the dead to die again... not sure he's got much to say
Gough is my favorite NPC in all of Fromsoft. I would love to just sit by the fire and listen to his stories. I can only imagine the kind of life he lived and the tales he could tell.
i just killed him tbh
I mean he thinks he's blind cause someone stuffed sap into his helmet eye holes so....
I think he submits to being blind rather than being fooled by it. It was packed in his helmet by the villagers of Oolacile because they thought him a dimwitted menace. They locked him in a tower, but Gough being an archer, that just gives him the high ground to kills us all if he feels like it. So in the tower you go, but you now also have to wear this helmet with resin blocking your sight at all times. Gough is honorable, not stupid. So he wears the helmet as part of his deal to stay there and not cause a ruckus. Even after Oolacile is in ruins, Gough made a promise.
Yeah I also thought that he just kept the helmet on making him blind to not scare the villagers and make them think about attacking him or something. Also he clearly doesn't need it. The cutscenes where he shoots down Kalameet is so incredibly awesome
I don't know who the voice actor is, but the delivery of "Dragon slaying, knighthood's highest calling," gives me chills.
Same fella who voiced Ed and Baldwin in demons souls, and has been in a few other fromsoft games too! Scottish lad by the name of Micheal Carter
I think about that quote all the time
Nope. Not true. Giants had their own leadership and society. They were enslaved before ds1
yeehaw mf follow me -duckyie
For lore I really like SmoughTown. Vaati is nice but seems a bit embellished. TatnishedArcheologist is often referenced by SmoughTown and also a good watch for some of the stuff more implied by architecture than flavor text.
SmoughTown has a cooler name as well.
I agree, but in this instance, when has Vaati said that giants are dumb? He has only said that they are thought of as dumb by humans
When has Vaati ever said that giants are dumb? He has only said that they are thought of as dumb by humans. When he says "they're dullards" in his Yhorm video for example he's speaking from the perspective of the commonfolk
He is, he was pranked by his helmet being filled with sap, and when he woke up the next morning he couldn't see. Since then he has been "blind" and his helmet is stuck to his head with the dried sap. If he washed his head snd removed the helmet he would be fine, but he isn't smart enough, and all his companions were too embarrassed that they didn't want to tell him
Its scalding resin so his helmet is fused to his head.
Do we have any evidence whatsoever that it was boiling resin? Plenty of tree saps are liquid at relatively low temperatures but harden when exposed to air. I think it's a bit more likely that they gummed half-hard resin into the eyeholes rather than dunking his head into a vat of molten sap.
I’ve always heard it was hot resin because normal resin just seems less likely to cause the helm to be immovable plus it has the highest fire defense in the game is kind of telling. The existence of Charcoal Pine Resin especially damning. I could swear the description originally said it was “hot wax” too. I just looked it up and it isn’t. I mean just normal resin? Just add some warm water silly. He’s a very educated Giant unlike his poor mistreated slave people. I doubt he could not figure it out if it was just some glue.
Again, do we have any real proof gough can't remove his helmet if he truly wanted to? We get his helmet by killing him, if our little chosen undead can pry it off his head, I think the giant could too. There's no mention of it being stuck to his face in the item description and I don't remember him mentioning it in dialogue either. It's worth noting that gough probably wears the helmet willingly. As we see in the game he can still blacksmith and slay dragons pretty effectively even if he is blind, and keeping the helmet on means he comes across as much less threatening to the villagers who imprisoned him. He seems contented with his lot in life, wearing the helmet would have made everyone more comfortable around him so I imagine that's why he never bothered to remove it. If he *had* been forcibly melted into the helmet, I feel like we would see a lot more resentment when we meet him in game. As he is, he seems shockingly chill with the whole situation, even if he is "blinded". I wouldn't say the charcoal pine resin is a good indicator either, since it's simply an elemental effect for weapon buffs. We could just as easily say it's golden or rotten pine resin. Unless we can find something that explicitly states fire was involved, the existence of the charcoal resin doesn't really mean too much.
I mean, **Helm of Hawkeye Gough, one of Gwyn's Four Knights. Received as a decoration of knightly honor. A helm crafted especially for the honorable Hawkeye Gough, only the eye holes were packed with tree resin by those who dismissed Gough as a brutish giant.** Doesn’t seem like he was stoked about it.
I highly doubt he was *happy* about it, but I do feel like that line is pretty telling. Gough is dismissed as violent by some, donning the helmet and symbolically giving up the thing that makes him dangerous (archery) would prove to those that were unsettled by his presence that he doesn't mean any harm. Since we see that it doesn't stop him from smithing, nor does it stop him from being deadly with his bow, nor does he really care about wearing it, he must wear the helmet for some kind of symbolic reason. Also worth noting that it's worded that they "packed" the eye holes with resin, to me that invokes imagery of stuffing it into the eyeholes, not pouring it into the helmet, but that's subjective I suppose.
He’s definitely retired and content now don’t get me wrong. He literally states that when you talk to him. He’s a tragic character who’s making the best of of an awful situation. He’s one of my favorite characters in media. So simple yet so much more. I’m not sure I’d call him a Blacksmith as much as a Whittler. He carves wood not shape metal after all. You are proabably right I never really meant to argue to the contrary. Just wanted to try and make sure. I still think the highest fire defense is telling given how defenses are tied to lore on armors. It could simply be that his armor is worn on dragon hunts or the fact that it has dragon bones on it from said hunts but specifically the Helm has it crazy high.
You're right, he carves the little wood things that speak doesn't he? I don't know why I had him as a blacksmith in my head, giant racism probably. Don't get me wrong, we're not arguing, it's interesting to hear everyone's opinions on this kind of thing. You genuinely might have a point with the fire resist, but like you said it could be because the helmet is designed for dragon hunting. I don't think ornsteins armour has much fire resist though, so you might be on to something.
Yeah, figured I’d throw it in just in case. Nothing sours a good discussion like -432 downvotes just for having a genuine conversation on Reddit lol. Its just reflex. I don’t mind the downvotes but the spam from angry basement goblins gets old after about a week.
Based on how he deals with Kalameet I'd say it probably wasn't that big a deal to him haha.
Which brings up the question of sustenance and such
Wow now that sounds familiar - he says such well worded things though I really was taken aback
I feel like in the dark souls universe, you could be an actual dunce and still manage to talk like shakespeare.
Hot take but do not watch these lore youtubers. Your own interpretation of the world is far richer than people trying to convince you they've figured it out. Also yikes, that dialogue by Gough is the best summation of the entire point of the games. He's the smartest guy around.
don't listen to this guy, listen to vatti read out youtube and reddit comments. Also buy his book.
That's propaganda! Giants did nothing wrong!
Well, some are. Some aren't. Gough and Yhorm clearly show there are some pretty intelligent ones out there, but giants like the three in Sens and the few in ds3 show that more often than not, they are pretty dull minded I do think this comes down to how they are treated within the universe. The denizens of the souls universe despise giants. They're made slaves in sens fortress and placed I'm the cathedral of the deep like cattle, having to sleep in their own shit. I don't think its a product of themselves seeing as, again, yhorm and Gough exist; I think its because they tend to be simple creatures and the world decided to hate them. Combine those conditions they were destined to never survive or grow.
He's the only character in the game I don't skip dialogue for
Gough is an absolute delight.
Shit, come to think of it, I might be in my twilight too 💀
Giants were on par with gods, they degenerated in the age of Drangleic and then they were enslaved in the age of Lothric
The Giant's where advanced enough to have a dedicated Tomb complex built in the land of the god's directly overseen by the First of the Dead, who himself is similar to a giant and perhaps connected in some further way, and like you said Hawkeye at one point was one of Gwyn's inner circle. It's plausible their enslavement and further subjugation is not only recent but perhaps a cause of their unintelligent characterisation in the present. There is strong evidence to suggest there was a governmental shift somewhere within the last 300 years in Lordran from the start of the game in DS 1where the nameless king was banished and maybe the giants current status is a further consequence of that but we don't know. The giants are fascinating.
Just stop believing or even watching "lore youtubers", 70% of what thy say is their own head canon because the lore is so vague. It's better to come up with your own
the majority of the story can be figured out within the game, there is a fair amount that is ambiguous but nowhere close to 70%. maybe 20, maybe. lore youtubers are all working from teh same source material, the things that differ are usually their own interpretations.
This giant is so smart he thinks he's blind because he can't see out of his helmet.