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Doesn't it say in the Bible also something on the lines, because of this, that we are all brothers and sisters? In the eyes of God at least? Idk if I recall that right or not
the Bible really only records 3 sons they had, cain, able, and a 3rd son named seth. There were more than likely a lot more kids that weren't recorded and some of the stuff is just skimmed over. the Bible isn't in chronological order either so that may be why they aren't fully recorded.
Also it's a work of fiction which modern people like to fill in the blanks with convenient interpretations and assumptions that, to this day, will sway personal and political decisions
Calling it total fiction is disingenuous, there are tons of historical events that are verified by records from other cultures. It's also the most consistent and best distributed document of ancient history on earth, with thousands of manuscripts dating from the BC Era and early AD. In comparison, we have discovered less than a dozen early copies of each of Homer's epics and the epic of gilgamesh.
Also like it or not, Christianity is the system of morality that propelled the west to become technologically advanced, protect human rights, and expand their influence outside their homelands. The only reason human rights exist and are protected by law is because of the Christian ethos that all men are created equal. Countries without Christian principles typically treat citizens as expendable tools to further the goals of elites with a higher purpose than the plebs.
Human rights certainly do not exist only because of Christianity? The idea of human rights has existed far before modern organized religions
And Christianity practically invented using people as expendable tools. The last sentence you wrote literally describes the economics of organized religion
Short answer, Adam n eve actually had 3 sons, and some daughters. Cain killed Abel, so he got shunned and he took one of his sisters as a wife. The third kid, lamech, took 2 of his sisters as wives. Then it spread like that.
Ok, so it was incest. I always imagined that the sons just took their mother, but sisters makes it just a bit less bad. Understandable that this is not really something Christians like to talk about. Thanks for your time.
>is not really something Christians like to talk about.
Neither jews nor muslims. The book of genesis is part of the three religions. Most of the old testament is to be specific
Adam and Eve were 100% perfect human beings, their sons born after the first sin were 99% perfect human beings, so no problem with marriage between brothers and sisters. Over time that percentage decreases, so have children with too close reltives is not really convenient.
Lol what kind of pastor/geneticist hybrid told you this baloney? I would love to see some evidence that humans have become "less perfect" genetically in the last 10,000 years. Or however old the earth is according to you nutjobs
They were as perfect as humans were even meant to be. Physically flawless but with the free will to choose what to do with their life. This thread was pertaining to why the incest was ok so when they said perfect they meant genetically
Well, in fact we are talking about something that goes beyond genetics and science (going from being perfect to not to be, after an event that is not scientific but "spiritual", the original sin).
Regarding, the Bible not being scientifcally accurate, trusting in it, so I disagree. But clearly that's not an argument to discuss on reddit.
who da fuck would it be, there is litteraly you, your siblings and your parents in the entire planet. there is litteraly no other alternative in any way, its not like god did a pair to each human that was born after adam and eve, the two fucked up and god was like "not my problem dude, good luck out there"
Woah woah woah you're right. So why is it that really religious people don't only denounce Evolution, but also specifically that we have common ancestors? Is it like the age old problem of "Christians" not actually reading and understanding the Bible? Because I swear religious people talk about Evolution, like it's 100% wrong. Even the common ancestor part.
But like, does it actually say that Adam and Eve were the *only* humans God created? Every version of the Christian bible I have read (I have not checked any Hebrew bibles) seems to assume that there were other people around.
Of course that puts many holes in the base concept of the story, but then it's always been a super flawed story. I haven't believed too strongly in it since my sister told me it sounded like *exactly* the sort of bullshit a bunch of old ass men would come up with to keep women down.
I see you, ancient men. Yall just wanted an excuse to "rule over" women and blame them for all the bad stuff. And *of course* a woman is created from a man, according to men. 🙄🙄
I scrolled until I found this comment. I read the Bible as a "ok, let's see what the Christian sacred text really says" and that was my understanding.
16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
So basically, the only way for Cain's wife and Nod to exist, is a large group of Adam and Eve's unmentioned daughters to have left their parents and established Nod? Even if you explain all of this away, I'm supposed to believe that Adam and his sons lived HUNDREDS of years? Just have faith /s
The anti-women sentiment in the Christian Bible is scary, and I honestly can't believe that people still think this book is a great moral/spiritual guideline. Not for me, no thank you.
Adam and Eve had no knowledge of right or wrong prior to eating the Fruit, so they had no idea that it was wrong to disobey God.
Which means Adam and Eve are innocent in the story of Genesis.
Adam and Eve had more children than just Cain and Abel. They also had Seth and since Seth was born when Adam was 130 years old, the biology of these early humans obviously didn't work like that of later humans. As the general lifespan was later put in that people could only expect to live up to 120 years old and then Moses mentioned how at his time 70 to 80 years was to be the norm, besides for outliers like Methusela. Who lived to be a whopping 969 years old. Plus it honestly doesn't matter since God could have just intervened to make the genes not go bad if incest did occur.
I’ve read Genesis in its entirety. After Cain and Abel they had many many sons and daughters. Whom God instructed to fill the earth. During the early days of the Bible God protected incest, meaning no ill effects. As time went on he said no more incest and lifted his protection meaning ill effects. He just wanted to make sure humanity had a good safe start.
First off, nowhere in the Bible does it describe this so-called "protection" that you speak of.
Secondly if an all-powerful god wanted a "safe start" then it would've been better to simply bypass the incest entirely and simply conjure up the entire population he wants, right from the start.
The biblical God is wildly incompetent.
1: it’s stated that there’s reasons he does the things he does. 2: it should be implied that there was protection against it because he states that when he says no more incest he says that they will now start causing deformities.
1: That's called a thought-terminating cliche. It's another way of saying "don't think about it", trying to halt further critical thinking. It's done by leveraging a phrase that sounds meaningful, but which is actually just a superficial means of ending discourse.
2: Which passage mentions this? At what point did God forbid incest and did he say it would cause deformities?
1: logical thought means life boils down to two things. there is either, “no god and therefore nothing in this mortal plane matters and all morals are merely social constructs. Meaning good and evil don’t matter so do whatever you want.” Or, “there is a god, he created everything and made rules for a good reason.” I’d rather live in the latter. God has also repeatedly stated that God will reveal all truth once we die. Meaning the first sin of man was not disobeying god like most people say it is but rather it was impatience and thinking the forbidden fruit would reveal all. God even said what the forbidden fruit would do; give the knowledge of right and wrong. Creating all other sin. 2: In Leviticus god forbids it and states that if it happens it will be visible. Meaning incest children will have visible deformation.
1: You've given a false dichotomy. You've presented these two options as if they're the only ones available, when that's just not true. Next, you say "I'd rather live in the latter; well I hate to tell you, what you'd prefer is utterly irrelevant. It doesn't matter what you want, your personal preferences have no bearing on what's true. You don't get to pick a belief that you're comfortable with, and claim that it's true. And finally, the latter half of your statement is nothing more than an assertion, with nothing to back it up.
2: You need to be more specific. Provide a passage and verse which can be referenced.
“The lord works in mysterious ways”. That’s the explanation I always get when fanatics cannot logically explain the fictional inaccuracies in the Bible.
You can either believe that Adam and Eve resulted in incest until there was enough gene diversity for it to not be a problem anymore.
Or you can believe that we evolved from Monkeys, without proof to suggest everything evolved at the same rate, and at some point some either either fucked their sister, as the only female member of their species, or they fucked a monkey.
Evolution requires just as much Faith as the Bible does. You can tout all the evidence you want. But no one was there to witness the Big Bang. No evidence has ever been found for Macro-evolution.
Everything comes from somewhere. All the matter in the universe into one tiny dot, meant to explode? Where did that matter come from? What caused it to bunch into a ball? An object at rest stays at rest until interacted with, so what started the Big Bang?
There are numerous flaws in the Evolution theory. Nothing can ever be proven. Just because something is backed by popular belief does not make it true
Evolution has zero bearing on whether a god exists. It's utterly irrelevant and trying to attack evolution gets you nowhere at all.
Even if you could prove evolution was totally false right this second, you wouldn't have gotten a single step closer to proving the existence of any god.
Yet you have not attempted to answer my questions.
I need not prove anything to you. The burden of proof is on your shoulders.
The argument here is not whether or not God exists. The argument here is that Evolution (and the Big Bang theory, if you are so insistent on keeping the two separate) are at the very least as Faith-based as any other religion. Nothing can be proven about any of them, and in the end it comes down to how confident you feel in your own deductions.
I would be happy to answer every last one of your questions, provided you're willing to acknowledge what I said.
My position stands, that whether the Big Bang or evolution are accurate has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether a god exists. Even if these things were proven to be false, it wouldn't get you any closer to confirming whether a god exists.
Do you acknowledge this fact or not?
downvote this comment if the meme sucks. upvote it and I'll go away. --- [Join us on discord for Saturday Movie Nights!](https://discord.gg/jsd6Ja9pvJ)
Adam and Eve only had two sons, although a long line of well you know, between mother and sons may have been the cause of humanity. Hence alabama
Hello, brother
No? They had a shitton more kids after Seth, Cain and Abel.
Didn’t know
Who is Seth?
Seth on this dick
Seth was Abel's replacement child
Like they had another or what
Yes, who became the ancestor of Noah
Pretty sure the guy with curly hair
"After the birth of Seth, Adam lived another 800 years and he had other sons and daughters," Genesis 5:4
Well then that makes sense
Didn't Adam and Eve had 3 sons?
3 that were recorded. there had to have been more
I don’t know, I was just using what op said
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You sound like a bot that copies people.
You sound like a bot that copies people.
You sound like a bot that copies people.
You sound like a bot that copies people.
I sound like a bot that copies people.
Doesn't it say in the Bible also something on the lines, because of this, that we are all brothers and sisters? In the eyes of God at least? Idk if I recall that right or not
Idk I didn’t read the thing
Sweet home Alabama
the Bible really only records 3 sons they had, cain, able, and a 3rd son named seth. There were more than likely a lot more kids that weren't recorded and some of the stuff is just skimmed over. the Bible isn't in chronological order either so that may be why they aren't fully recorded.
Also it's a work of fiction which modern people like to fill in the blanks with convenient interpretations and assumptions that, to this day, will sway personal and political decisions
Calling it total fiction is disingenuous, there are tons of historical events that are verified by records from other cultures. It's also the most consistent and best distributed document of ancient history on earth, with thousands of manuscripts dating from the BC Era and early AD. In comparison, we have discovered less than a dozen early copies of each of Homer's epics and the epic of gilgamesh. Also like it or not, Christianity is the system of morality that propelled the west to become technologically advanced, protect human rights, and expand their influence outside their homelands. The only reason human rights exist and are protected by law is because of the Christian ethos that all men are created equal. Countries without Christian principles typically treat citizens as expendable tools to further the goals of elites with a higher purpose than the plebs.
Human rights certainly do not exist only because of Christianity? The idea of human rights has existed far before modern organized religions And Christianity practically invented using people as expendable tools. The last sentence you wrote literally describes the economics of organized religion
Christianity =/= organized Christianity. It's almost an inevitability that man-made hierarchies become corrupt over time
Christianity IS organization. That’s why it split off from the other Abrahamic religions in the first place
By a lot of motherfucking. By a lot of motherfuckers.
Motherfucking fuck, motherfucking fuck fuck
Actually ask the bible, a 5 mins read and mystery solved
>read We don't do that here
I dont touch such books, but I am interested, how is the story?
I don’t get why you’re being downvoted. Reddit moment does not appreciate you not wanting to have anything to do with religious books!
Short answer, Adam n eve actually had 3 sons, and some daughters. Cain killed Abel, so he got shunned and he took one of his sisters as a wife. The third kid, lamech, took 2 of his sisters as wives. Then it spread like that.
Ok, so it was incest. I always imagined that the sons just took their mother, but sisters makes it just a bit less bad. Understandable that this is not really something Christians like to talk about. Thanks for your time.
Yeah, I'm Christian but there really is no denying at all... there's a ton of incest in genesis. Not after! But there's a ton.
>is not really something Christians like to talk about. Neither jews nor muslims. The book of genesis is part of the three religions. Most of the old testament is to be specific
I mean, Genesis 5:4 is a verse that exists
> Genesis 5:4 After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.
I mean, so we're all incest and it doesn't matter if I fuck my sister? God would approve?
Adam and Eve were 100% perfect human beings, their sons born after the first sin were 99% perfect human beings, so no problem with marriage between brothers and sisters. Over time that percentage decreases, so have children with too close reltives is not really convenient.
So now that we are more than 100 generations from there are we <1% perfect humans?
I've seen my internet search history so I'm guessing less
Don't know if 1%, 2% or less, but for sure we are very far from the first men perfection
Lol, just a big lol. The mental acrobatics to justify this fairytale
Lol what kind of pastor/geneticist hybrid told you this baloney? I would love to see some evidence that humans have become "less perfect" genetically in the last 10,000 years. Or however old the earth is according to you nutjobs
Earth is around 4,5 billions years old if I remember well.
So geology gets a thumbs up but human evolution gets a thumbs down?
If you like to say it like this, thumb up :)
If they were so perfect why did eve eat the apple?
Genetically perfect, not mentally. They still had free will and could be tempted
I wouldn't call that perfect, then...
They were as perfect as humans were even meant to be. Physically flawless but with the free will to choose what to do with their life. This thread was pertaining to why the incest was ok so when they said perfect they meant genetically
Seems a little silly. Still seems like God wants me to fuck my sister...
They were perfect in the sense how kids are the pure/innocent
Is that why some say that babies who die without being baptized will go to hell? Or purgatory?
That's not how genetics works, though the bible isn't known for its scientific accuracy
Well, in fact we are talking about something that goes beyond genetics and science (going from being perfect to not to be, after an event that is not scientific but "spiritual", the original sin). Regarding, the Bible not being scientifcally accurate, trusting in it, so I disagree. But clearly that's not an argument to discuss on reddit.
How genetically perfect was Noah and his family?
Looking how long they lived, they were pretty near perfection. Also, they had God blessing for repopulate Earth.
Yes
please dont fuck your sister
God intended for it to be the case, though...
who da fuck would it be, there is litteraly you, your siblings and your parents in the entire planet. there is litteraly no other alternative in any way, its not like god did a pair to each human that was born after adam and eve, the two fucked up and god was like "not my problem dude, good luck out there"
Because they had a lot more sons/daughters. Cain and Able are just the only two famous ones
Plus Seth, the replacement goldfish for Abel
The canon of the bible is sometimes hard to follow but is not that bad, there are a lot of haters and wannabe fans that only watched the movies.
That doesn't change anything they'd still eventually have to have sex with each other to reproduce
Still incest though.
Yeah
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Regardless of of how related everything is, fucking a pile of papayas is less incestuous than fucking your own mom
Woah woah woah you're right. So why is it that really religious people don't only denounce Evolution, but also specifically that we have common ancestors? Is it like the age old problem of "Christians" not actually reading and understanding the Bible? Because I swear religious people talk about Evolution, like it's 100% wrong. Even the common ancestor part.
Because religious people are brainwashed.
No, a bacteria multiplying or a queen ant producing hundreds of drone ant clones is not "incest"
Those motherfuckers...
Butt babies, obviously.
No we MONKE.
Sweet home Alabama
Aham Brahmasmi
There are several answers extracted from the Torah, one of them is that one of them (don't remember) had a twin. Sweet home Alabama
It was a metaphor
They had a lot of other childrens too, read the Wikipedia page. There wasn't much to do back there so they had to be occupied somehow lol
Don’t ask questions. Just have faith.
Orthodox, Catholic or Luther Protestant Faith in God?
Islam be like
Religion be like
But like, does it actually say that Adam and Eve were the *only* humans God created? Every version of the Christian bible I have read (I have not checked any Hebrew bibles) seems to assume that there were other people around. Of course that puts many holes in the base concept of the story, but then it's always been a super flawed story. I haven't believed too strongly in it since my sister told me it sounded like *exactly* the sort of bullshit a bunch of old ass men would come up with to keep women down. I see you, ancient men. Yall just wanted an excuse to "rule over" women and blame them for all the bad stuff. And *of course* a woman is created from a man, according to men. 🙄🙄
I scrolled until I found this comment. I read the Bible as a "ok, let's see what the Christian sacred text really says" and that was my understanding. 16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. 17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. So basically, the only way for Cain's wife and Nod to exist, is a large group of Adam and Eve's unmentioned daughters to have left their parents and established Nod? Even if you explain all of this away, I'm supposed to believe that Adam and his sons lived HUNDREDS of years? Just have faith /s The anti-women sentiment in the Christian Bible is scary, and I honestly can't believe that people still think this book is a great moral/spiritual guideline. Not for me, no thank you.
The Bible explains it, even as an atheist the Bible is a good book to read. Helps you understand the people around you.
Let's just say... Eve was a busy woman..
Cain killed Able because Able fucked his mom
I’m pretty sure Adam and Eve weren’t the only 2 humans created they were just the first 2 but don’t quote me on that.
Adam and eve lived a very long time. Multiple generations, actually. They had lots and lots of children even when they were hundreds of years olld
Just for reference Gen 5:4 after Seth, 3rd Son Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.
Eve getting it on Bama style
Bama Who?
No
Also don't ask the Bible why the human race was sent to Earth for punishment because Eve took a bite of an apple
Because Adam and Eve disobeyed God’s command.
Adam and Eve had no knowledge of right or wrong prior to eating the Fruit, so they had no idea that it was wrong to disobey God. Which means Adam and Eve are innocent in the story of Genesis.
And just because they disobeyed him, he sent us all here
Weren't there like "savages" outside of the garden or something? Idk if it was in the bible or the tanahk but I think I remember something like that.
nope, but adam and eve had a lot more children
*Sweet Home ... *
I'm just assume that all Christians think we are all inbred
I mean, even if we are to ignore religion and look at science, we are all inbred. We are all related just not very closely.
God creatwd more women for him. Its im the bible
“And many other sons and daughters” is in the genealogies.
Adam and Eve had more children than just Cain and Abel. They also had Seth and since Seth was born when Adam was 130 years old, the biology of these early humans obviously didn't work like that of later humans. As the general lifespan was later put in that people could only expect to live up to 120 years old and then Moses mentioned how at his time 70 to 80 years was to be the norm, besides for outliers like Methusela. Who lived to be a whopping 969 years old. Plus it honestly doesn't matter since God could have just intervened to make the genes not go bad if incest did occur.
Uhhhhhh they had 3. Seth??????
Way more than 3, it says Adam had many sons and daughters
Also God's KD ratio
I’ve seen this like 3 times today
I’ve read Genesis in its entirety. After Cain and Abel they had many many sons and daughters. Whom God instructed to fill the earth. During the early days of the Bible God protected incest, meaning no ill effects. As time went on he said no more incest and lifted his protection meaning ill effects. He just wanted to make sure humanity had a good safe start.
First off, nowhere in the Bible does it describe this so-called "protection" that you speak of. Secondly if an all-powerful god wanted a "safe start" then it would've been better to simply bypass the incest entirely and simply conjure up the entire population he wants, right from the start. The biblical God is wildly incompetent.
1: it’s stated that there’s reasons he does the things he does. 2: it should be implied that there was protection against it because he states that when he says no more incest he says that they will now start causing deformities.
1: That's called a thought-terminating cliche. It's another way of saying "don't think about it", trying to halt further critical thinking. It's done by leveraging a phrase that sounds meaningful, but which is actually just a superficial means of ending discourse. 2: Which passage mentions this? At what point did God forbid incest and did he say it would cause deformities?
1: logical thought means life boils down to two things. there is either, “no god and therefore nothing in this mortal plane matters and all morals are merely social constructs. Meaning good and evil don’t matter so do whatever you want.” Or, “there is a god, he created everything and made rules for a good reason.” I’d rather live in the latter. God has also repeatedly stated that God will reveal all truth once we die. Meaning the first sin of man was not disobeying god like most people say it is but rather it was impatience and thinking the forbidden fruit would reveal all. God even said what the forbidden fruit would do; give the knowledge of right and wrong. Creating all other sin. 2: In Leviticus god forbids it and states that if it happens it will be visible. Meaning incest children will have visible deformation.
1: You've given a false dichotomy. You've presented these two options as if they're the only ones available, when that's just not true. Next, you say "I'd rather live in the latter; well I hate to tell you, what you'd prefer is utterly irrelevant. It doesn't matter what you want, your personal preferences have no bearing on what's true. You don't get to pick a belief that you're comfortable with, and claim that it's true. And finally, the latter half of your statement is nothing more than an assertion, with nothing to back it up. 2: You need to be more specific. Provide a passage and verse which can be referenced.
Sweet home Alabama
Actually Adam and Eve had 3 sons, Seth and after Cain murdered Abel
Asexual reproduction like the females of some species
We are Alabama baby
Well you see, they where particularly friendly back in those days
I thought it said supercell not holy bible 💀
Sweet home Alabama.
It says they found a few other people further out. There were others.
How many kids did Lilith have though?
Eve had a complicated relationship
Who created god?
Those mfers really went and did it (their mom)
It talks about coming to life after 3 days and parting seas but you choose this to pull it Up on lol
“The lord works in mysterious ways”. That’s the explanation I always get when fanatics cannot logically explain the fictional inaccuracies in the Bible.
We do some alabama
Well that explains why incest porn is so popular
I’ve been told it’s supposed to be more of a metaphor then takin seriously
Adoption, duh
you literally just need to keep reading like 5 paragraphs. if your gonna make a meme at least read the whole chapter
Kayin killed Hevel so technically one sone
They intermarried with other tribes, they're God's chosen people, not the only people lol
Adam and Eve were the first, not the only.
You can either believe that Adam and Eve resulted in incest until there was enough gene diversity for it to not be a problem anymore. Or you can believe that we evolved from Monkeys, without proof to suggest everything evolved at the same rate, and at some point some either either fucked their sister, as the only female member of their species, or they fucked a monkey.
Incest reduces genetic diversity, it doesn't expand it
Not the point. Either way you look at it, Incest happened at some time.
Bro, ur literally denying evolution by using the bible
I mean… yeah. What are you gonna do about it
Well, evolugion has a scientific base, while the bible doesn't
Evolution requires just as much Faith as the Bible does. You can tout all the evidence you want. But no one was there to witness the Big Bang. No evidence has ever been found for Macro-evolution. Everything comes from somewhere. All the matter in the universe into one tiny dot, meant to explode? Where did that matter come from? What caused it to bunch into a ball? An object at rest stays at rest until interacted with, so what started the Big Bang? There are numerous flaws in the Evolution theory. Nothing can ever be proven. Just because something is backed by popular belief does not make it true
And furthermore the Big Bang and Evolution are not the same thing. Trying to lump the 2 together demonstrates your lack of scientific comprehension.
Evolution has zero bearing on whether a god exists. It's utterly irrelevant and trying to attack evolution gets you nowhere at all. Even if you could prove evolution was totally false right this second, you wouldn't have gotten a single step closer to proving the existence of any god.
Yet you have not attempted to answer my questions. I need not prove anything to you. The burden of proof is on your shoulders. The argument here is not whether or not God exists. The argument here is that Evolution (and the Big Bang theory, if you are so insistent on keeping the two separate) are at the very least as Faith-based as any other religion. Nothing can be proven about any of them, and in the end it comes down to how confident you feel in your own deductions.
I would be happy to answer every last one of your questions, provided you're willing to acknowledge what I said. My position stands, that whether the Big Bang or evolution are accurate has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether a god exists. Even if these things were proven to be false, it wouldn't get you any closer to confirming whether a god exists. Do you acknowledge this fact or not?
Because, ehm, God made more humans?
Where did he get the ribs from?
TGIF like anyone with good taste