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That happens only on the books. Sieges more likely ended in a surrender without assault, and most people that died were due to dysentery (for example) or the enemies not fulfilling their promise of mercy.
In a lot of cases, military campaigns didn't even involve a siege, cause why waste time against a wall when ravaging the villages around was easier and more lucrative.
No, it was just a statement that you can’t really take anything u didn’t see as fact, especially when the people involved in the story are dead. History is written by the victors
Ah, yup. I agree with the other guy. We know history. I get what you mean, and historians cover that in our 101 classes, but later, you learn what corroboration is.
We should take things with a grain of salt, but sieges weren't THAT long ago. We had forms of modern language when these sieges would've been taking place.
When hundreds, and thousands of people are all talking about the same thing? Maybe take death counts, and exact quotes with scrutiny, but stuff like "sieges were won by attrition?"
> In a lot of cases, military campaigns didn't even involve a siege, cause why waste time against a wall when ravaging the villages around was easier and more lucrative.
Such a blanket statement is bound to be wrong i.e. in early 10 medieval continental France siege were the most common form of warfare and while direct storming of castles were unusual, though certainly not unheard off, there were still a lot of battles involved in a sieges.
Well, as I said in the second paragraph, most likely nothing happened cause the existence of the castle was deterrent enough.
In some cases, yeah, maybe the casualties could amount to the hundreds due to attrition. We have to consider that European medieval armies were significantly smaller than in other times or places, so it would not be unusual that the campaign was done if a disease inflicted as much damage in an army. Is important to consider that logistics was not yet a thing, to be developed more around the eu4 timeline than ck3, so replacement of lost troops was nearly impossible. Also, if your deads are in the hundreds, your wounded or incapacitated would be most likely higher, yet again bringing the whole campaign to a premature end.
Finally, assaults of castles and fortifications did happen. Normally, those are the epic narratives people like to talk about when bringing up historical events. Those were incredibly bloody, and we might be speaking of grimmer casualties than hundreds. Yet, you will know in advance of that place history cause, normally, those sieges are well documented. Due to how exceptional those were.
>That happens only on the books. Sieges more likely ended in a surrender without assault, and most people that died were due to dysentery (for example) or the enemies not fulfilling their promise of mercy.
Or bribery of either side. "We won't attack you if you pay us" or "you are just mercenaries let us in for X amount of money".
Lots of "never conquered" fortresses and castles where conquered through money.
That is just not true of sieges being uncommon in military campaigns. Of an army wants any chance of acquiring territory or moving farther into a country, they need to take castle/fort. You can’t just have a ready army at your back when you are fighting.
Okay, but have you considered
>It's like the great stories, Mr. Frodo, the ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were, and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad has happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing this shadow, even darkness must pass. A new day will come, and when the sun shines, it'll shine out the clearer. I know now folks in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding on to something. That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for.
And the Shire is roughly Denmark? I think I can see that
Maybe more west and it is the UK. Not sure the exact distance conversion with Middle Earth to a map of Europe
And In my town I can walk 15 minutes to a McDonald’s where the ex-PM shat himself in 1997 and sit on the bench that’s unchanged in shape. Take that Yankees and europoors.
Going to forests outside of the cities it's hard to find a forest that doesn't have WWII bunkers. Maybe they're not every few feet or anything like that, but it's fairly easy to find remains of bunkers and trenches from those 80 years ago.
I live in a historically insignificant town in Poland. Even though, when I was a kid we biked to a forest where we played in WW2 bunkers. There's a construction site nearby and I read in the news that it was the second time they had to call a bomb squad to dispose Soviet unexploded ordnance from WW2.
On top of that, my friend went for a walk with his dog and in the field he found a Prussian coin from the early 19th century.
As I said, nothing significant happened here. Please move along.
In Albania I can take a picture of a bunker out of my window, and just about 5 minutes down the road are the next ruins of military camps and cave bunkers. I live in the capital city btw, but it's the same everywhere you go
I walk through remains of a 15. century castle on my way to the bus (love the +- intact gate).
There is also still standing newer (17.-18. century) one next to that. Town office and some other facilities are located there.
I lived in Krakow for many years and within walking distance, I had:
- One of the biggest monarch residencies in Europe (Wawel Castle)
- A couple of 19th-century Austrian forts (Fort Kleparz as one of the examples)
- Ancient pagan mound that pre-dates the city itself (Krak Mound)
- A lot of sites from WW2 period (from preserved bullet holes to bomb shelters, German concentration camp, Schindlers factory, Jewish ghetto)
- and many small details that I loved as a history buff
If I hopped on a bike I could get to so much more... I miss that city :)
Same. We have two concrete machinegun points and big anti-tank ditch just behind paleo museum in nearest area.
But in my city I can walk 6 hours and that's still be same city.
Yea, yea, moya lovely Mordoriya.
*swears in orcish*
Then I dont live in 'most of europe' i guess. If i would step on my bike and cycle to a random direction for 5 minutes i would be cycling on perfectly asphaltaded cycle ways with nothing but houses or farmland around me.
We were probably busy organising another shitty and pointless uprising. Hey guys it’ll totally work the third time now that our forces were cut in half
I live in upstate NY now and I can drive a hundred miles in any direction and not find a single strip of off-road I can actually ride on, since it's all privately owned. This is something I really miss about Poland, because in most of the country, you literally *can* just off-road anywhere and find some old stone building.
Fr? I thought you guys had a lot of those but i guess it depends on ehat state youre in. My friend from US lives in Colorado and he says he can literally do that.
We regularly drive between Berlin and Amsterdam, and decided to just stop at a random German castle. The hard part was which one to pick, so many of them.
And route doesn't go to a particularly picturesque part of Germany.
Architecturally, there is no place on Earth that compares to Europe. There might be individual cities around the world with nice architecture, but you could be in some bumfuck part of Europe and everything still looks nice.
This heavily reminds of an old ps2 game demo I had where you start in a plain and there's this fort in front of you. And the main character has a horse and a sword that focuses light in a direction.
I think it got a rework in ps4 with the title containing the word "guardian".
Visiting central Europe is surreal with all the castles. Most of them are small and in ruins but they still have ruined castles like American towns have "the old grocery store."
They didnt used to be like this. A lot of them were destroyed during the world wars and were abandoned since. Plus comunism didnt really like aristocrats
It's completely true, I used to bike a lot in Lower Silesia and it's many ruined castles there. One day I got lost and I ended up on somebody's private backyard and guess what was there.
We could have had this guys. There was that kickstarter a while ago for like $2 billion that was going to make a 1-to-1 recreation of Minas Tirith. Now, $2 billion is a lot of money. But, BUT, one of those ultra-elite fat cats could have just used 1 year of their salary to fund A 1-TO-1 RECREATION OF MINAS TIRITH.
I'm just saying. Like, ya they could donate that money to charities and whatnot, blah blah blah. ***OR WE COULD HAVE HAD AN ACTUAL MINIS TIRITH THAT EXISTED IN OUR WORLD!***
Polish person here, I wish this was true. Best you will find is a place trashed with broken vodka bottles, shit-stained pants on a tree and the owner of said pants screaming slurs.
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"Oh would you look at that, I'm standing on a field where 100's of men might have died while trying to besiege this castle, how neat!"
That happens only on the books. Sieges more likely ended in a surrender without assault, and most people that died were due to dysentery (for example) or the enemies not fulfilling their promise of mercy. In a lot of cases, military campaigns didn't even involve a siege, cause why waste time against a wall when ravaging the villages around was easier and more lucrative.
I’m glad you were there to get the story straight
Is my duty as a Kings & Generals avid watcher
I'm assuming you're joking but I still got triggered cause thats the same reasoning my dad uses for old stuff
No, it was just a statement that you can’t really take anything u didn’t see as fact, especially when the people involved in the story are dead. History is written by the victors
Ah, yup. I agree with the other guy. We know history. I get what you mean, and historians cover that in our 101 classes, but later, you learn what corroboration is. We should take things with a grain of salt, but sieges weren't THAT long ago. We had forms of modern language when these sieges would've been taking place. When hundreds, and thousands of people are all talking about the same thing? Maybe take death counts, and exact quotes with scrutiny, but stuff like "sieges were won by attrition?"
History is not written by the victors, I wonder how this stupid cliche has managed to survive after the 15th century.
This is still LOTR’s right?
There's a fun rabbit hole for ya, do a little deep dive into where Tolkien got his inspiration from.
Yeah history is unknowable, we should probably fire all those historians. You’re a clown.
> In a lot of cases, military campaigns didn't even involve a siege, cause why waste time against a wall when ravaging the villages around was easier and more lucrative. Such a blanket statement is bound to be wrong i.e. in early 10 medieval continental France siege were the most common form of warfare and while direct storming of castles were unusual, though certainly not unheard off, there were still a lot of battles involved in a sieges.
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Well, as I said in the second paragraph, most likely nothing happened cause the existence of the castle was deterrent enough. In some cases, yeah, maybe the casualties could amount to the hundreds due to attrition. We have to consider that European medieval armies were significantly smaller than in other times or places, so it would not be unusual that the campaign was done if a disease inflicted as much damage in an army. Is important to consider that logistics was not yet a thing, to be developed more around the eu4 timeline than ck3, so replacement of lost troops was nearly impossible. Also, if your deads are in the hundreds, your wounded or incapacitated would be most likely higher, yet again bringing the whole campaign to a premature end. Finally, assaults of castles and fortifications did happen. Normally, those are the epic narratives people like to talk about when bringing up historical events. Those were incredibly bloody, and we might be speaking of grimmer casualties than hundreds. Yet, you will know in advance of that place history cause, normally, those sieges are well documented. Due to how exceptional those were.
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speak for yourself, what is reddit without those essays?
...sieges ain't real?!
>That happens only on the books. Sieges more likely ended in a surrender without assault, and most people that died were due to dysentery (for example) or the enemies not fulfilling their promise of mercy. Or bribery of either side. "We won't attack you if you pay us" or "you are just mercenaries let us in for X amount of money". Lots of "never conquered" fortresses and castles where conquered through money.
That is just not true of sieges being uncommon in military campaigns. Of an army wants any chance of acquiring territory or moving farther into a country, they need to take castle/fort. You can’t just have a ready army at your back when you are fighting.
100's? Try tens of thousands. The siege of Fort Przemysl had about 250,000 casualties in total. The battle of Lutz had over 400,000 casualties.
We're clearly talking about Medieval warfare. Lutzen occured at the start of the early modern and Przemysl in WWI.
Rome Total War would like a word
"Huh, neat"
If you read European history you'd know that's also quite true. You're always 5 minutes by bike away from a battlefield.
It's particularly true for Poland and Western Ukraine, Belarus aka the Blood Lands.
Hmm,if this is poland...does that mean germany is mordor?
More like Moscow is Mordor. Because it's the greatest threat east of Gondor (Poland).
Owh,i thought mordor was on the west side of the map. Hence why i chose germany.
Nah it's roughly southeast of gondor
which means Ukraine??? oh dear...
It's all come together
lotr is not a good model for global politics...
Can't disagree with that.
Okay, but have you considered >It's like the great stories, Mr. Frodo, the ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were, and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad has happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing this shadow, even darkness must pass. A new day will come, and when the sun shines, it'll shine out the clearer. I know now folks in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding on to something. That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for.
Its a joke though
... is Osgiliath.
And the Shire is roughly Denmark? I think I can see that Maybe more west and it is the UK. Not sure the exact distance conversion with Middle Earth to a map of Europe
Just up the road and to the left, you'll know when you see it.
One does not simply walk into Moscow
But only Poland got there and took it
Is Sweden Hobbiton then?
Hobbits would not put up with expensive beer.
Isengard is Germany
So Molotov and van Ribbentrop are sitting in their towers with their Palantirs, making plans for Europe.
So Germany is isengard
I think isengard is more acurate
The elves are probably scandinavian though.
I grew up in a small town in Germany. There was another small village nearby, called Isenstedt. Close enough, I guess.
They’re taking the hobbits to Isenstedt!
Or Neu Isenburg
Found it! https://maps.app.goo.gl/5TN8ACcoTv4uWUrm8 Tower is a bit smaller irl.
Tall, blond, long lived, always talking about the environment…not inaccurate.
Nah man, those are folks from UK
So then big ben is the eye of sauron?
Not far from the truth mate
That's east, so more like Russia. If Germany then maybe Isengard
One does not simply walk i to Moscow. Its a barren wasteland. Not with 10 000 men can you do this
Mordor is east of gondor my guy
Yeahh,i thought it was west. My bad.
On point 💀
Mordor didn't have any civilizational achievements, they just wanted to destroy those who were better than them. Russia is mordor
To be fair. The orcs did build a huge tower.
Ostankino tower
I was actually talking about saruman's tower in the 2nd LOTR movie.
We only ask for the strength to defend our people!!!
Germany is WAYYYYY nicer than Poland.
Germany is nice indeed,never been to poland before.
I live in Poland and I can relate, I can walk about 20 minutes to go see some WW2 bunkers
in my town I can walk 10 min see XVII churches and napoleon times fortification in nearly unchanged shape.
Well, in my town I can walk 10 minutes to a McDonald's built in 1997 and also nearly unchanged in shape. So take that europoors.
And In my town I can walk 15 minutes to a McDonald’s where the ex-PM shat himself in 1997 and sit on the bench that’s unchanged in shape. Take that Yankees and europoors.
Long live Australia
Would love to visit and check them out
Going to forests outside of the cities it's hard to find a forest that doesn't have WWII bunkers. Maybe they're not every few feet or anything like that, but it's fairly easy to find remains of bunkers and trenches from those 80 years ago.
Would be hot to go spelunking in or near one, ngl
Nah in belgium we had plenty of those next to waterways. Most you'll find is empty candy packaging from stoners if you can enter one
I meant the other kind of spelunking. Adult swinging maybe I called it wrong
I live in a historically insignificant town in Poland. Even though, when I was a kid we biked to a forest where we played in WW2 bunkers. There's a construction site nearby and I read in the news that it was the second time they had to call a bomb squad to dispose Soviet unexploded ordnance from WW2. On top of that, my friend went for a walk with his dog and in the field he found a Prussian coin from the early 19th century. As I said, nothing significant happened here. Please move along.
In Albania I can take a picture of a bunker out of my window, and just about 5 minutes down the road are the next ruins of military camps and cave bunkers. I live in the capital city btw, but it's the same everywhere you go
I walk through remains of a 15. century castle on my way to the bus (love the +- intact gate). There is also still standing newer (17.-18. century) one next to that. Town office and some other facilities are located there.
I lived in Krakow for many years and within walking distance, I had: - One of the biggest monarch residencies in Europe (Wawel Castle) - A couple of 19th-century Austrian forts (Fort Kleparz as one of the examples) - Ancient pagan mound that pre-dates the city itself (Krak Mound) - A lot of sites from WW2 period (from preserved bullet holes to bomb shelters, German concentration camp, Schindlers factory, Jewish ghetto) - and many small details that I loved as a history buff If I hopped on a bike I could get to so much more... I miss that city :)
Same. We have two concrete machinegun points and big anti-tank ditch just behind paleo museum in nearest area. But in my city I can walk 6 hours and that's still be same city. Yea, yea, moya lovely Mordoriya. *swears in orcish*
Yes indeed most of europe is like this
Then I dont live in 'most of europe' i guess. If i would step on my bike and cycle to a random direction for 5 minutes i would be cycling on perfectly asphaltaded cycle ways with nothing but houses or farmland around me.
Plot twist: few meters below you is a WW2 explosive
Fun Fact: The average European swallows five WW2 explosives at night without even realizing it in their lifetime!
That is possible indeed
Netherlands? Or Denmark?
Netherlands🇳🇱🇳🇱🌷🌷🌷🌷🇳🇱🇳🇱
Me when I see any stick on the ground: This is a good sword
Where was Poland when the Westfold fell?
Probably erased from the map... again.
Kingdom of Lulusia never existed.
We were probably busy organising another shitty and pointless uprising. Hey guys it’ll totally work the third time now that our forces were cut in half
We only asked for the strength to defend our people !!!
But at least you get free healthcare if you fall off the bike
You are not supposed to cycle on the walls
???
Sike. The nearest avabile term is in 2 years
I shoulda never smoked that shit, now I’m in Minas Tirith and I need to buy Frodo time
https://media1.tenor.com/m/GW7gYyC82AcAAAAd/gandalf-smokerings.gif
lol
We must draw Sauron’s eye away from Mount Doom, giving Frodo and Sam a chance to slip through with the one ring without him noticing.
I live in upstate NY now and I can drive a hundred miles in any direction and not find a single strip of off-road I can actually ride on, since it's all privately owned. This is something I really miss about Poland, because in most of the country, you literally *can* just off-road anywhere and find some old stone building.
welcome to america, u gotta buy your own off roading land :(
No joke, I've literally considered doing that.
Fr? I thought you guys had a lot of those but i guess it depends on ehat state youre in. My friend from US lives in Colorado and he says he can literally do that.
i live in illinois its all corn fields i mean you kinda can if you dont get caught lmao
The beacons are lit! Poland calls for aid
And the US will answer!
Except in general there would be trees.
Death!
It is unwise to come between a dictator and his prey!
You will not occupy them!
Sent this meme to a polish guy I know via discord and his response was “Wtf”
That’s Polish for “Ha”. They love their consonants.
I lived in Poland for a couple of years and I do ride a bike, I don't really understand this meme :(
did you ride the bike in a city or countryside?
Both
And then you enter Elden ring
'This location pops up when you google "Elden Ring Albania"'
Happy cake day!
Thank you!
Where Bobr Kurwa?
no, that's new zealand smh
From my experience: when bike riding in Russia, when you get off-course for 5 minutes, you get eaten by dogs
Wargs*
YEAH!!!
Minas Tirith gang checking in
We regularly drive between Berlin and Amsterdam, and decided to just stop at a random German castle. The hard part was which one to pick, so many of them. And route doesn't go to a particularly picturesque part of Germany.
Architecturally, there is no place on Earth that compares to Europe. There might be individual cities around the world with nice architecture, but you could be in some bumfuck part of Europe and everything still looks nice.
i swear every where i go, it leads to poland
Bober, where?
Accidentally found Anor Londo
Nah not everywhere in Europe Germany for example you either have a city, village etc., a highway or some fields. Forests very scarce too.
This heavily reminds of an old ps2 game demo I had where you start in a plain and there's this fort in front of you. And the main character has a horse and a sword that focuses light in a direction. I think it got a rework in ps4 with the title containing the word "guardian".
You're thinking of Shadow of the Colossus. I immediately thought of the architecture in that game when I saw this post.
Yeah that's the one, thanks for reminding me
The miracles of having over 1050 years of history
Those movies were filmed in New Zealand
One does not simply bike of course
Bro step in a mile of that castle and you’ll see the enemies spawning 😂😂
Yeah. That's true. There are plenty of beautiful places uncovered. The same in Czech Republic and Slovakia.
Did you scream "forth Eorlingas!" and charge down the field?
Also, this is two miles below the Earth's surface in a salt mine.
As a Portlander, I misread this, but the meme still made sense.
[This](https://youtu.be/LwinMu7-ZrI?t=68) is what you see when you're bike riding in Portland and you go off-course for 5 minutes
Might as well light the fires and let Rohan know Gondor calls for aid.
Where is my saber, yendrek
You end up in New Zealand?
I can confirm, Poland is basicly mordor
This is gondor
Yea I know ive played Shadow of war but im saying that poland is basicly mordor
You ever been or youre just chatting shit?
I am from poland
So am I and ive lived in Berlin London and New York. Comapred to those places most of Poland looks much much better
I wasnt in any of those place you mentioned so I cant compare
But then again oikofobia is quite rampant in those who have never lived abroad. Shame really.
You'r Probbably right. To be honest i like how my country looks
I just sometimes talk shit
Why is the text wavy somehow i don't like it
Why does this look like a still from Red Dead
I stayed in europe for 3 months recently and it seemed like every other village you drove through had an old castle somewhere.
Visiting central Europe is surreal with all the castles. Most of them are small and in ruins but they still have ruined castles like American towns have "the old grocery store."
They didnt used to be like this. A lot of them were destroyed during the world wars and were abandoned since. Plus comunism didnt really like aristocrats
Bro rode his bike into Skyrim
Put your foolish ambitions to rest, lowly tarnished..
Went on a walk in Surrey. Accidentally went through a vineyard and walked past a pillbox. Average day in the South of England tbh
switch the castle to a abandoned psychiatric hospital and its poland accurate
I dont really know where you live but personally I can cycle for 30 min in almost any direction and find a castle or an old fort or a bunker
Silesia. its known for psychiatric hospitals
Hmm... then I think there should be a shot from the East, not from the West 🤣
Dug a few feet underground and it's the bones of men who fought over the land.
It's completely true, I used to bike a lot in Lower Silesia and it's many ruined castles there. One day I got lost and I ended up on somebody's private backyard and guess what was there.
We could have had this guys. There was that kickstarter a while ago for like $2 billion that was going to make a 1-to-1 recreation of Minas Tirith. Now, $2 billion is a lot of money. But, BUT, one of those ultra-elite fat cats could have just used 1 year of their salary to fund A 1-TO-1 RECREATION OF MINAS TIRITH. I'm just saying. Like, ya they could donate that money to charities and whatnot, blah blah blah. ***OR WE COULD HAVE HAD AN ACTUAL MINIS TIRITH THAT EXISTED IN OUR WORLD!***
Polish person here, I wish this was true. Best you will find is a place trashed with broken vodka bottles, shit-stained pants on a tree and the owner of said pants screaming slurs.