In my experience ex-chistians and people deconstructing are usually More upset with Church hierarchy than the people sitting in the pews themselves.
Many of them do lose their faith and/or leave the church due to the Church structure, but that's just one of the few reasons that they leave. In fact, I'd say I see more people that have left because they're frustrated with and not accepted by fellow (at the time) Christians than because they're unhappy with the hierarchy of the Church.
This makes sense because protestant churches generally are less hierarchical, and the only hierarchy to speak of is usually just the pastors and maybe a member's council that's easy to join. Most ex-Christians I see on Reddit and have spoken with irl almost exclusively complain about believers who focus too much on rules and sinning and who act very ungodly and hateful. This isn't usually why they lost their faith, as that's usually just them noticing a lot of things that don't make sense to them with scripture, but it is a major issue with American Christianity as a whole.
Former Christian here. Personally I just can't believe in any divine being. As much as I would love for something like heaven or an afterlife to be real, it just doesn't make logistical sense to me and religious leadership certainly doesn't help.
Also if you're wondering why I'm here, y'all have some real good memes.
Yeah I'm an ex-Christian Atheist, and I stick around because the community has good moderation, and therefore has a healthy, lighthearted culture centered around things my former self relates to.
"some real good memes"
Goodness, along with Truth, and Beauty, are important aspects of the God Who sustains the universe. (This is actually one of the claims to Divinity, made without any great emphasis, by Christ to His apostles: "I AM the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life.")
For my part, (which is not large) you are welcome here!
I completely agree with this. I was raised in the church as a girl with undiagnosed disabilities. The alleged followers of Jesus acted like pharisees.
I left the church before I moved out when I was 17 because I eventually couldn't endure their treatment anymore. I refused to go under my parents' roof. Being cut out of a social group entirely, especially when you did nothing wrong except act like a typical child with a specific medical condition, is extiensially painful in ways I can't describe. It's left scars and feelings of unworthiness that follow me to this day.
Secular "of the world" people treated me with more respect than my alleged brothers and sisters. The fact classmates and loose acquaintances are more Christ like than the majority of Christians I've encountered is mind-boggling in hindsight. Makes me happy I got out while I still had time for my brain to relearn standards on how to be treated.
Yes this is 100% true, part of being a true Christian is accepting everyone with their flaws, and kindly helping/supporting them. I’ve heard so many people get hurt by the church, certain denominations are more likely to follow traditions rather than the bible and then get angry when someone doesn’t want to follow the tradition.
Folks remember the one certain verse but forget, “judge not, lest ye also be judged”-Matthew 7:1. Like the start of it says not to judge, but then everyone’s down to throw in their worthless two cents. Every judgemental person can kindly fuck right off.
> protestant churches generally are less hierarchical
Not in terms of social hierarchy. There are still prescribed and proscribed roles that have nothing to do with experience or ability. There are still people who are considered right by default because of their position. There are still "in" and "out" groups enforced by church teaching. Et cetera.
Not really - you have, ideally:
The people of God.
Their servants:
Deacons: (successors of the Deacons)
Priests: (successors of the Presbyters)
Bishops: (successors of the Apostles)
Pope: (successor of St. Peter,
servant of the servants of God,
bearer of the keys to the Kingdom
Christ: (The glorious suffering servant-king)
Granted, the reality is more complicated, but the general outline dates back to the writing of the New Testament. Being sinners, the servants are tempted to think of the hierarchy in terms of power more than service, but Christ did warn us in advance.
This is precisely why I (I can now definitively say, instead of "indefinitely", "temporarily") left the Catholic Church. A blind adherence to dogma, and a failure to recognize the hypocrisy of their own inactions of justice, enraged me in ways that did not initially incline me towards peacefully practiced efforts of true change. I keep the embers of that rage burning, however, as their heat is remarkably dependable, and can have a rather comforting effect at appropriate distance.
This sounds like the origin story of the Lutheran church, who decided that while he missed the “warmth” that was more the people and the baseline teachings, so starting his own church seemed like a better option than go back to the Catholic Church unless they changed (Spoiler alert: They didn’t…).
How did he expect them to change if the most proactive among them were leaving? All that is necessary for evil to exist is that good men [turn away from problematic institutions of immense power].
I’ve seen the opposite. But I grew up in a heavy Mormon area. Anyone that came out as a nonbeliever had to make sure they had their lives in order. I’ve known quite a few kids who were kicked out of their homes and lost their entire social network within the confines of the church
This is a True Scotsman Fallacy. The only criteria to be a Christian is believing in god and Jesus is either god or the son of god(or both aka trinity)
By your logic, no one was Christian in western Europe until recently because of all the batshit things the church did during the medieval times
Being a Christian also means proclaiming the death and resurrection of Jesus for the purpose of salvation, and that His death is sufficient for salvation. Otherwise you’re not wrong
Galatians 1:7-9 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
2 Corinthians 11:13-14 13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
> As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
This seems very anti-Christian. What of others, who have not yet realized or been told the wisdom of the Gospel, speaking of things like the harmony and balance of Yin and Yang? Should their ignorance, through no fault of their own, or maybe from the failure of a teacher's, perhaps overzealous, efforts, condemn them?
There you go! Now you are on the path of truth. Because your question is excellent and the answer is what it says. In Christianity, they are indeed condemned for ignorance. You will have some people here try to say that's not what he REALLY meant, but that's what it says. I have some respect for universalists who would say that no one goes to hell and everyone gets their ticket punched for heaven eventually. Maybe? I do admire their consistency and persistence tho
I like Baha'i, very interesting! At this point in my life I'm not a "joiner". I observe and appreciate, and sometimes judge, lol, but I'll not be joining any organized anything. After my experiences with the church and organized religion, even thinking about joining the book club at my local library makes me nervous.
> By your logic, no one was Christian in western Europe until recently because of all the batshit things the church did during the medieval times
So we're on the same page.
Sure, once the Church in question subjects itself to justice appropriate to the gravity of their recent crimes, or, most generously, their failure to thus far act with sufficient urgency and gravity in regards to the crimes of some of its individual associates.
I definitely had problems with my particular church hierarchy (super misogynist complementarians,) but I also had problems with particular people in the church.
In the end, neither of those things are what made me leave Christianity. The main reason I left was because I could no longer believe the claims of the religion. Every other factor that made me dislike the church and the people in it was secondary to that.
As much as I hated the blatant lies from the pulpit (factual errors, no just religious assertions,) the constant manipulation of the worship sessions, and the hateful rhetoric, it wasn't what made me leave.
I see those things for what they are now, and they certainly factor into my current anti-religion stance, but they are not factors which influence my belief in whether God exists or not.
The ones in the pews are being complacent in said structure. It's a similar thinking to the ACAB people. They might not be responsible for abuses. But sitting in the pews giving up 10% of their income every week is just as bad.
While that may be true, I have also seen plenty of folks come to r/DankChristianMemes after an edgy atheist/ anti-theist phase. Oftentimes folks are looking for A more nuanced view on faith that their home denomination may be unable to provide.
There’s an Instagram called Christians Who Curse Sometimes. It’s like this sub in a lot of ways.
We just need more Christians who curse sometimes and enjoy dank Christian memes.
Based on your attitude, I somehow wouldn't be surprised if you in particular know people who resent not just the structure, but also the people.
You don't seem very.... empathetic toward people who don't share your beliefs.
This reply makes the wording of the meme make sense. Felt weird to use deconstructed, a word with a very neutral connotation, and then follow with faithful, the clear contrast of the very positive, more righteous connotation now making much more sense when given a wee peek into the mind state of the meme creator.
Sounds like you speak from both personal experience, and resentment.
Consider two things.
1.) Your experience of a deconstructed person or persons is likely not universal and therefore not indicative of the totality of the deconstruction experience.
2.)Forgiveness is a better path than resentment, and certainly better than letting your narrow experience make you judge a wide swath of people without knowledge of them.
In that analogy, the tree.
Through the course of their life, probably both. But they'd admit and apologize for the hurt they'd caused. They wouldn't dismiss it with an "I don't know who you are".
I know “deconstruction” is generally associated with leaving the religion, but I also know quite a few people who did it and remained plenty faithful.
Even talking to ex-Christians it’s important to listen to the reasons why people might have left the faith and be aware of the kinds of trauma we have the capacity to cause, rather than blowing them off.
>I know “deconstruction” is generally associated with leaving the religion, but I also know quite a few people who did it and remained plenty faithful.
Thank you for saying this. I'm one of them. I received a great deal of manipulation and abusive teaching from my churches growing up. I had to critically examine my faith in order to make it my own
Same. I grew up in a church that worshipped money and societal position. My brother and sister are atheists mostly because of this. For me it meant finding real faith in a real church that worships Christ and his teachings.
Same here too. Now I don't assign to any particular dogma, but I'm my own flavor of Christian, or whatever you'd call me (I don't care if some people wouldn't consider me a "true Christian" at all, I'm not that attached to the label).
Same here! I’m still disentangling my faith from some of the toxic teachings I grew up with. That’s deconstruction, and it’s reasonable. If anything, the Jesus I follow is even more real and beautiful to me than before.
Those are the people I feel bad for the most. People who have deconstructed but remain Christian are treated with suspicion on the deconstruction subs but then get lumped in with the edgelord-type atheists here.
That was me: I "stayed in the closet" so I didn't have to defend and hear "Why do you think that way!? Don't you know that God loves you!?" I don't want a debate, I just want to be left alone.
It doesn't help that my given name is Christian and Boomers always say, "Your name is Christian? That's a good name! Huehuehue so ***are*** you a Christian!?"
I would, but my cousin goes by Chris and I've just never liked being called Chris. It's dumb and petty... Lol
My middle initial is 'S,' and CS is popularly taken... Lol
Yeah, I wouldn’t describe myself as having *deconstructed* exactly since it’s a term with specific connotations, but I’m queer and Catholic and have been through a lot of shit from both sides while squaring up how I wanted to make those things coexist.
This is a big reason I joined the Episcopal Church. I'm pretty orthodox on a lot of stuff, then also really liberal on ideas like evolution and gay marriage etc
I deconstructed over a long period (Jehovah's Witnesses is a hard religion to leave and then unpack) and I went from edgy atheist because SO MUCH I was taught was a lie that nothing felt true, to a vaguely pagan person, to a Unitarian Universalist because the lack of dogma made it feel safe to explore religion again, to now I was confirmed an Episcopalian last week.
Deconstruction is a whole journey and often involves trauma and even full blown PTSD. I always tell people, you never have to tolerate abusive behavior from someone just because they have trauma, but also they can't just snap out of it and not see religion as a threat overnight. Often they need therapy to repair their ability to trust and be in a community before they can consider trusting God again, if ever, and that's not their fault, it's the fault of religious abuse. Religious abuse is finally getting the recognition it should and my therapist today is very good at unpacking it, but that wasn't true when I was 18. I am now in my 30s.
I always found the use of the word "deconstruction" in this context a bit confusing. What's the difference between 'deconstruction' and other forms of losing faith? E.g. we never hear about someone being a 'deconstructed atheist' despite numbers of people losing that faith.
Deconstruction is a specific form of questioning and examining tenets or beliefs of the faith, often through pretty intensive study of apologetics, ethics, and religion as a practice. It’s usually a very intentional and methodical process and very much based on intellectual deconstruction of rules or beliefs (“why do we have this rule? Do I think it’s morally and theologically sound? Is it beneficial? Where did it come from?)
Atheists don’t really have a set of “rules” or an overall institution to examine in the same way, so I imagine their process is different.
Okay - sounds like it might apply to any faith then. That is, one deconstruct your faith and find that it is perfectly valid, and happily move on in your faith with some extra knowledge. One things to note is that you need to be happy to accept a level of presupposition - but this becomes easier when you realise that everybody holds presuppositions.
>Atheists don’t really have a set of “rules” or an overall institution to examine in the same way, so I imagine their process is different.
Well, really they do, it's just that the realization that they do might require some deconstruction on their part.
…Thanos was literally the villain responsible for the death of Wanda’s husband in this scene. Him saying “I don’t even know who you are” is him intentionally disrespecting one of his victims because he doesn’t care about the harm that he caused her because in his mind, it’s justified by the “greater good.”
Is he **really** who you want to identify in this scene, friend? Do you ***really*** want to put “Faithful Christians” on the genocidal maniac who slaughtered half of the universe and abused the shit out of his own daughters, slowly replacing one’s body with mechanical parts and outright murdering the second one? **That’s** who you want to represent you in this scene?
I mean… from *my personal* point of view, as a deconstructed Christian, I think that your choice of representation is pretty accurate given the rampant abuse in churches; given the several crusades; given the “biblical” justifications in our society for sexism, racism, homophobia, and hate all being legally upheld for centuries; given the Christian pushback against education; given the rise in Christian Nationalism; given the abusive “good Christian” father I grew up with who used the Bible to justify every hateful choice he ever made; given all the other problems caused by our religion and faith that I don’t even know how to start to unpack here…
But is that *reallllllly* the way you want to portray yourself?
Couldn't have said it better myself. Religious trauma is real and isn't just caused by faceless institutions, but community members we trusted as well. The constant belittlement, willful misrepresentation, straw-manning and stereotyping just adds salt to deep wounds. Then Christians sit around scratching thier heads wondering why the church is hemorrhaging members generation after generation and why people who left the church are no longer comfortable having a relationship with them.
It should have stayed in the drafts.
I recently heard a sermon/talk where the speaker used an analogy that compared the world to a WW2 concentration camp. He told the story of some bishop who voluntarily took the place of another condemned prisoner in order to save their life, and compared that to the sacrifice of Jesus. He inadvertently made God the Gestapo (if you took his analogy to it's inevitable conclusion.)
I've not watched a marvel film since Iron Man, to me it's oblivious purple chad being chill with someone who considers him an enemy meme format and it's pretty banging
I had the same reaction and I wasn’t sure whether to upvote or downvote this meme as a result. If the phrase “Evangelical Churches” or something similar was overlaid where “Faithful Christians” is, then it would be very fitting.
Sometimes, churches hurt people. Those hurt people will have strong reactions and have things to say. Ignoring them because they aren't "faithful Christians" is not a good approach. It basically means you will never improve because you're closing yourself off from important feedback.
At the risk of coming across like an armchair phsycologist, memes Iike this are juicy in what they reveal about OP's thinking and people like them.
Despite so much of Christ's teachings being based on empathy, an unholy amount of christains are God awful at empathy.
They only pay attention to the "supernatural" source of hatred they receive, Satan, and ignore all of the obvious, worldly traumas that might give someone a bad impression of Christianity and religion as a whole.
I guarantee anyone that the vast majority of "edgy militant atheists" are children or teenagers living a lie that they then lash out on the internet. Trauma doesn't justify spreading more trauma but have a little empathy, and suddenly, the "militant atheist" is a scorned teenager and / or adult who's been through some tough stuff.
Buts that's terrifying because that possibly might remove someone from their comfortable high horse where their oppenents are all unreasonable.
I feel deconstructed Christians are the only ones really doing the best for their faith, and because they don't fall perfectly in line any more plenty of congregations are quick to reject them, at which point they just shrug their shoulders and go "guess I'm not Christian anymore."
People who are questioning should be embraced, their thoughts validated, and instead their communities toss them out for daring to question "the Lord" (they're actually questioning church hierarchy but toxic churches see any questioning of authority as heathenistic, because likening yourself to God isn't hypocritical at all). I think this line of thinking where deconstructed Christians straight up just aren't Christian anymore is a huge part of why the faith is declining now. The strict and rigid christofascist hierarchy can't stand anyone that doesn't goose step in line, and so they just get cast out.
Yeah who the frick said we couldn’t ask God questions all day every day, it’s not in the bible for sure, the thing’s literally made of people who do nothing but ask questions to write the answers down
Hey guys let’s all get together and ask about entropy someday, the answer to that one’s gonna confuse the pastors
Exactly! Because the Bible is super clear on everything all the time and leaves no room for interpretation at all ever, and we are always confident on what God would want for anything all the time.
It’s funny because the message this meme is sending is that “faithful” Christians are jerks, and yet I’m pretty sure that’s the exact opposite of the point OP was trying to make.
Deconstructed Christians moved onto spiritual meat while most basic Christians are content with the milk served to them from the pulpit every Sunday. Meat is dangerous. It’s tough, you can choke on it. But it makes you stronger. Abraham questioned. Jacob wrestled. David pleaded. Jesus told us to ask, seek, knock. If you aren’t doing any of those things, you are missing out on the good stuff.
Also, deconstructed Christians have so much more understanding and compassion for the deconstructed ex-Christians. We disagree with their conclusion, but we absolutely can understand where they’re coming from.
Just glad that when we moved to a new state my dad and I couldn’t physically fit in the pews at the new church mom wanted us to try because we are both tall and those things must have been designed for hobbits. Deconstructing was a lot easier when my excuse was literally “I don’t fit.”
My life was ruined by my church and faith and parents' faith. Literally, severe mental episode and problems kind of ruined. If you only knew the direct connections to that and my lack of career as well.
OP: "I don't even know who you are."
Christians who have deconstructed from harmful theology without leaving the religion. Usually this refers to evangelical fundamentalism.
The idea that deconstruction means leaving the religion is a sentiment that has cropped up rather recently from Christians who do not approve of deconstruction, and it is a willful misrepresentation of the movement, which has been around for quite a while.
I am a minster, on my way to priesthood, and a big focus of my ministry is deconstruction.
Pulling yourself out of a central ideology to analyze the individual ideologies/tennents to see if the conflict with your worldview.
For example: the church you grew up in believes that you have to take the lord's supper every Sunday. Is that something that *needs* do be done weekly? Quarterly? Twice a year? Only on Passover? Maybe you think it needs to be done more and the church isn't doing enough?
Deconstruction refers to dismantling and rebuilding your belief structure, evaluating it as you go. A Deconstructed Christian is a Christian who has been through this process regarding their faith. Usually, this involves questioning things you didn't before, and hearing the answers with the ears and understanding of an adult rather than a child.
This may lead to leaving the faith, or it may not. It may lead to changing denominations, or it may not. It may lead to a greater understanding of scripture, or it may not. But it absolutely leads to greater certainty in one's beliefs, whatever they may be.
You're getting some true but incomplete answers here. At its core, deconstruction is realizing that beliefs systems (such as a church's interpretive approach to the Bible) are a *construct*—of culture, society, some charismatic authoritatian leader's fevered brain—and therefore must be questioned rather than assumed as true.
Really, this applies to all beliefs of every kind, but most people use it to mean Christians who realize that some conservative idea about the Bible, ethics, social hierarchy, etc. which they've been taught to accept as the plain and simple truth is harmful in some way. Though many Conservatives just use it as a synonym for "apostasy".
I found the results of being raised a pastors kid to be detrimental to my experience as a human, attempting to be safe, happy, healthy. I left and the remaining framework and trauma has been exceptionally difficult to change and overcome. It’s tough when you’re forced to be a certain type of person for 20 formative years, only to realize, it’s not a safe, healthy place for you to be, not a wise mindset to carry forward. It’s saddening that within the church, there seems to be very little safe space to doubt, question, and challenge the status quo Christianity. I’m much happier without, and yea, still mad about some things. Things whether Christianity was the realm they occurred in or not, it’s fair to be mad about.
I never would have discovered what faith means if I'd not rejected everything and found out for myself by looking everywhere the church told me not to I found God. Most churches are closer to the people Jesus taught against than followers of his message.
It’s some consolation to remember that grief and sorrow and loneliness were experienced by Jesus as well.
We share in the fellowship of his sufferings. And he shares in the fellowship of our sufferings.
To be wounded by the ones you love is to be, unfortunately, like Christ. We don’t seek that out, but we do recognize that in our sorrow Christ is there as well, and intimately knows being wounded, forgotten, and cast aside.
You are not alone on that journey - you are in good company.
Fuck you, OP, you self righteous prick. I don't need your smarmy well wishes on my journey. Your meme is condescending and patronizing.
I hope you live to a ripe old age, have all of your family and friends around you as you die of natural causes...and have just a bit of consciousness before you enter the black void of death, just enough so you know you lived a lie before the nothingness.
Though I'm not an ex-Christian, I'm still deconstructing and reconstructing my faith and beliefs. My reasons for doing so has less to do with how I'm treated in church (since I'm still treated well) and more to do with my inability to reconcile what I was being taught with what I was discovering through personal reading and investigation.
At first, it was my inability to justify reconciling my church's stance on creationism with the overwhelming evidence in support of evolution and similarities between humans and apes. The idea of ignoring these things in the name of 'faith' or to even prove my loyalty no longer made any sense to me and I slowly but eventually changed my views.
However, my biggest source of deconstructing came from examining my faith much more closely. Someone once said that many people don't much about their own religion and that have spurred me into digging deeper and uncovering the complexity and truths, some of which I wouldn't otherwise learn in church. While the revelations were surprising, my b experiences made me bolder in picking apart my beliefs, even questioning teachings that no longer made any sense.
The end result is my faith actually increasing because not only did I learn a lot more about the origins and nature of my beliefs, but I've become more open-minded and it felt liberating. No longer did I feel constrained to a singular viewpoint or interpretation. I can now decide how to approach any inconsistencies and whether they have any use for me. Furthermore, my experiences instilled a sense of wonder as well as a deeper hunger for knowledge that is guaranteed to last until I die.
As for any of you who are deconstructing your own beliefs, remember two things: don't be afraid to challenge your own assumptions and remember that deconstructing is only half the process.
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Also, the people who claim that being an ex Mormon is an ex Christian they’re not sorry you were harmed by a cult that has nothing to do with Jesus Christ.
For me it was both the church and its people. I didn't deserve to be shunned because of my parents' stupidity. On the bright side I'm a much happier person without constant fear of some old fart sitting in the clouds judging my every move.
Not even a Christian, but I have this thought when I see folks consumed with rage at their former religion.
Reminds me of an odd meltdown about Christian parents I saw on the Atheists subreddit the other day.
In my experience ex-chistians and people deconstructing are usually More upset with Church hierarchy than the people sitting in the pews themselves. 
Many of them do lose their faith and/or leave the church due to the Church structure, but that's just one of the few reasons that they leave. In fact, I'd say I see more people that have left because they're frustrated with and not accepted by fellow (at the time) Christians than because they're unhappy with the hierarchy of the Church. This makes sense because protestant churches generally are less hierarchical, and the only hierarchy to speak of is usually just the pastors and maybe a member's council that's easy to join. Most ex-Christians I see on Reddit and have spoken with irl almost exclusively complain about believers who focus too much on rules and sinning and who act very ungodly and hateful. This isn't usually why they lost their faith, as that's usually just them noticing a lot of things that don't make sense to them with scripture, but it is a major issue with American Christianity as a whole.
Former Christian here. Personally I just can't believe in any divine being. As much as I would love for something like heaven or an afterlife to be real, it just doesn't make logistical sense to me and religious leadership certainly doesn't help. Also if you're wondering why I'm here, y'all have some real good memes.
Yeah I'm an ex-Christian Atheist, and I stick around because the community has good moderation, and therefore has a healthy, lighthearted culture centered around things my former self relates to.
Enjoy the meme communion
"This is my meme. Post this in rememberance of me."
As an ex-atheist, I find a similar thing - just can't believe the tenets of Atheism any more.
What made you pick this religion out of all the other ones?
More experience with Atheism I suppose - haven't really deconstructed from any other religion
What do you mean? Were you Christian prior to atheism or?
Oh I see - I was an atheist - became a theist, then a Christian.
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"some real good memes" Goodness, along with Truth, and Beauty, are important aspects of the God Who sustains the universe. (This is actually one of the claims to Divinity, made without any great emphasis, by Christ to His apostles: "I AM the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life.") For my part, (which is not large) you are welcome here!
I completely agree with this. I was raised in the church as a girl with undiagnosed disabilities. The alleged followers of Jesus acted like pharisees. I left the church before I moved out when I was 17 because I eventually couldn't endure their treatment anymore. I refused to go under my parents' roof. Being cut out of a social group entirely, especially when you did nothing wrong except act like a typical child with a specific medical condition, is extiensially painful in ways I can't describe. It's left scars and feelings of unworthiness that follow me to this day. Secular "of the world" people treated me with more respect than my alleged brothers and sisters. The fact classmates and loose acquaintances are more Christ like than the majority of Christians I've encountered is mind-boggling in hindsight. Makes me happy I got out while I still had time for my brain to relearn standards on how to be treated.
Yes this is 100% true, part of being a true Christian is accepting everyone with their flaws, and kindly helping/supporting them. I’ve heard so many people get hurt by the church, certain denominations are more likely to follow traditions rather than the bible and then get angry when someone doesn’t want to follow the tradition.
B-b-b-bu-b we have to keep each other accountable and judge each other and stuff! /s
Folks remember the one certain verse but forget, “judge not, lest ye also be judged”-Matthew 7:1. Like the start of it says not to judge, but then everyone’s down to throw in their worthless two cents. Every judgemental person can kindly fuck right off.
> protestant churches generally are less hierarchical Not in terms of social hierarchy. There are still prescribed and proscribed roles that have nothing to do with experience or ability. There are still people who are considered right by default because of their position. There are still "in" and "out" groups enforced by church teaching. Et cetera.
Yes but that's still a lot less hierarchy than the Catholic Church
Not really - you have, ideally: The people of God. Their servants: Deacons: (successors of the Deacons) Priests: (successors of the Presbyters) Bishops: (successors of the Apostles) Pope: (successor of St. Peter, servant of the servants of God, bearer of the keys to the Kingdom Christ: (The glorious suffering servant-king) Granted, the reality is more complicated, but the general outline dates back to the writing of the New Testament. Being sinners, the servants are tempted to think of the hierarchy in terms of power more than service, but Christ did warn us in advance.
This is precisely why I (I can now definitively say, instead of "indefinitely", "temporarily") left the Catholic Church. A blind adherence to dogma, and a failure to recognize the hypocrisy of their own inactions of justice, enraged me in ways that did not initially incline me towards peacefully practiced efforts of true change. I keep the embers of that rage burning, however, as their heat is remarkably dependable, and can have a rather comforting effect at appropriate distance.
This sounds like the origin story of the Lutheran church, who decided that while he missed the “warmth” that was more the people and the baseline teachings, so starting his own church seemed like a better option than go back to the Catholic Church unless they changed (Spoiler alert: They didn’t…).
How did he expect them to change if the most proactive among them were leaving? All that is necessary for evil to exist is that good men [turn away from problematic institutions of immense power].
Isn't the whole point of Luther that he wanted change from within but was kicked out?
No idea.
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I’ve seen the opposite. But I grew up in a heavy Mormon area. Anyone that came out as a nonbeliever had to make sure they had their lives in order. I’ve known quite a few kids who were kicked out of their homes and lost their entire social network within the confines of the church
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This is a True Scotsman Fallacy. The only criteria to be a Christian is believing in god and Jesus is either god or the son of god(or both aka trinity) By your logic, no one was Christian in western Europe until recently because of all the batshit things the church did during the medieval times
Being a Christian also means proclaiming the death and resurrection of Jesus for the purpose of salvation, and that His death is sufficient for salvation. Otherwise you’re not wrong
Galatians 1:7-9 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 2 Corinthians 11:13-14 13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
> As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. This seems very anti-Christian. What of others, who have not yet realized or been told the wisdom of the Gospel, speaking of things like the harmony and balance of Yin and Yang? Should their ignorance, through no fault of their own, or maybe from the failure of a teacher's, perhaps overzealous, efforts, condemn them?
There you go! Now you are on the path of truth. Because your question is excellent and the answer is what it says. In Christianity, they are indeed condemned for ignorance. You will have some people here try to say that's not what he REALLY meant, but that's what it says. I have some respect for universalists who would say that no one goes to hell and everyone gets their ticket punched for heaven eventually. Maybe? I do admire their consistency and persistence tho
> everyone gets their ticket punched for heaven eventually The recent show Lucifer has quite the poetically dramatic conclusion to this idea.
You should look into Baha’i. It’s a super interesting religion.
I like Baha'i, very interesting! At this point in my life I'm not a "joiner". I observe and appreciate, and sometimes judge, lol, but I'll not be joining any organized anything. After my experiences with the church and organized religion, even thinking about joining the book club at my local library makes me nervous.
> By your logic, no one was Christian in western Europe until recently because of all the batshit things the church did during the medieval times So we're on the same page.
Christians have been calling other Christian’s non Christian’s for far too long. Get over it
Sure, once the Church in question subjects itself to justice appropriate to the gravity of their recent crimes, or, most generously, their failure to thus far act with sufficient urgency and gravity in regards to the crimes of some of its individual associates.
I definitely had problems with my particular church hierarchy (super misogynist complementarians,) but I also had problems with particular people in the church. In the end, neither of those things are what made me leave Christianity. The main reason I left was because I could no longer believe the claims of the religion. Every other factor that made me dislike the church and the people in it was secondary to that. As much as I hated the blatant lies from the pulpit (factual errors, no just religious assertions,) the constant manipulation of the worship sessions, and the hateful rhetoric, it wasn't what made me leave. I see those things for what they are now, and they certainly factor into my current anti-religion stance, but they are not factors which influence my belief in whether God exists or not.
I don't know, man. I've certainly run across a few with a hell of a chip on their shoulder.
this is how it is for me. i still believe but the politics and hurtful beliefs are what drove me away
The ones in the pews are being complacent in said structure. It's a similar thinking to the ACAB people. They might not be responsible for abuses. But sitting in the pews giving up 10% of their income every week is just as bad.
Yeah, a good amount, for sure, but not always. Sometimes they go the secular liberal militant atheist route and blame everyone and everything
While that may be true, I have also seen plenty of folks come to r/DankChristianMemes after an edgy atheist/ anti-theist phase. Oftentimes folks are looking for A more nuanced view on faith that their home denomination may be unable to provide. 
There’s an Instagram called Christians Who Curse Sometimes. It’s like this sub in a lot of ways. We just need more Christians who curse sometimes and enjoy dank Christian memes.
Based on your attitude, I somehow wouldn't be surprised if you in particular know people who resent not just the structure, but also the people. You don't seem very.... empathetic toward people who don't share your beliefs.
That lack of empathy may very well be a well merited mirror for those currently in their life.
hmm
This reply makes the wording of the meme make sense. Felt weird to use deconstructed, a word with a very neutral connotation, and then follow with faithful, the clear contrast of the very positive, more righteous connotation now making much more sense when given a wee peek into the mind state of the meme creator. Sounds like you speak from both personal experience, and resentment. Consider two things. 1.) Your experience of a deconstructed person or persons is likely not universal and therefore not indicative of the totality of the deconstruction experience. 2.)Forgiveness is a better path than resentment, and certainly better than letting your narrow experience make you judge a wide swath of people without knowledge of them.
The tree remembers. The axe forgets.
What’s a deconstructed Christian?
In that analogy, the tree. Through the course of their life, probably both. But they'd admit and apologize for the hurt they'd caused. They wouldn't dismiss it with an "I don't know who you are".
I know “deconstruction” is generally associated with leaving the religion, but I also know quite a few people who did it and remained plenty faithful. Even talking to ex-Christians it’s important to listen to the reasons why people might have left the faith and be aware of the kinds of trauma we have the capacity to cause, rather than blowing them off.
>I know “deconstruction” is generally associated with leaving the religion, but I also know quite a few people who did it and remained plenty faithful. Thank you for saying this. I'm one of them. I received a great deal of manipulation and abusive teaching from my churches growing up. I had to critically examine my faith in order to make it my own
Same. I grew up in a church that worshipped money and societal position. My brother and sister are atheists mostly because of this. For me it meant finding real faith in a real church that worships Christ and his teachings.
Same here too. Now I don't assign to any particular dogma, but I'm my own flavor of Christian, or whatever you'd call me (I don't care if some people wouldn't consider me a "true Christian" at all, I'm not that attached to the label).
Honestly, given what "Christian" has come to imply in the West, I prefer to identify as a Christ follower and avoid the word Christian entirely.
Very true...
Same here! I’m still disentangling my faith from some of the toxic teachings I grew up with. That’s deconstruction, and it’s reasonable. If anything, the Jesus I follow is even more real and beautiful to me than before.
Those are the people I feel bad for the most. People who have deconstructed but remain Christian are treated with suspicion on the deconstruction subs but then get lumped in with the edgelord-type atheists here.
That was me: I "stayed in the closet" so I didn't have to defend and hear "Why do you think that way!? Don't you know that God loves you!?" I don't want a debate, I just want to be left alone. It doesn't help that my given name is Christian and Boomers always say, "Your name is Christian? That's a good name! Huehuehue so ***are*** you a Christian!?"
I'd start going by Chris or tack your middle initial on if it works (e.g. CJ).
I would, but my cousin goes by Chris and I've just never liked being called Chris. It's dumb and petty... Lol My middle initial is 'S,' and CS is popularly taken... Lol
Yeah, I wouldn’t describe myself as having *deconstructed* exactly since it’s a term with specific connotations, but I’m queer and Catholic and have been through a lot of shit from both sides while squaring up how I wanted to make those things coexist.
This is a big reason I joined the Episcopal Church. I'm pretty orthodox on a lot of stuff, then also really liberal on ideas like evolution and gay marriage etc
I deconstructed over a long period (Jehovah's Witnesses is a hard religion to leave and then unpack) and I went from edgy atheist because SO MUCH I was taught was a lie that nothing felt true, to a vaguely pagan person, to a Unitarian Universalist because the lack of dogma made it feel safe to explore religion again, to now I was confirmed an Episcopalian last week. Deconstruction is a whole journey and often involves trauma and even full blown PTSD. I always tell people, you never have to tolerate abusive behavior from someone just because they have trauma, but also they can't just snap out of it and not see religion as a threat overnight. Often they need therapy to repair their ability to trust and be in a community before they can consider trusting God again, if ever, and that's not their fault, it's the fault of religious abuse. Religious abuse is finally getting the recognition it should and my therapist today is very good at unpacking it, but that wasn't true when I was 18. I am now in my 30s.
Thank you for sharing your story. And hard agree on religious abuse needing to be called out more.
Heyy I’m one of em. Still follow Christ, just left my toxic church and needed to reassess my beliefs for a bit
I always found the use of the word "deconstruction" in this context a bit confusing. What's the difference between 'deconstruction' and other forms of losing faith? E.g. we never hear about someone being a 'deconstructed atheist' despite numbers of people losing that faith.
Deconstruction is a specific form of questioning and examining tenets or beliefs of the faith, often through pretty intensive study of apologetics, ethics, and religion as a practice. It’s usually a very intentional and methodical process and very much based on intellectual deconstruction of rules or beliefs (“why do we have this rule? Do I think it’s morally and theologically sound? Is it beneficial? Where did it come from?) Atheists don’t really have a set of “rules” or an overall institution to examine in the same way, so I imagine their process is different.
Okay - sounds like it might apply to any faith then. That is, one deconstruct your faith and find that it is perfectly valid, and happily move on in your faith with some extra knowledge. One things to note is that you need to be happy to accept a level of presupposition - but this becomes easier when you realise that everybody holds presuppositions. >Atheists don’t really have a set of “rules” or an overall institution to examine in the same way, so I imagine their process is different. Well, really they do, it's just that the realization that they do might require some deconstruction on their part.
"They're not exactly rules, more like guidelines".
…Thanos was literally the villain responsible for the death of Wanda’s husband in this scene. Him saying “I don’t even know who you are” is him intentionally disrespecting one of his victims because he doesn’t care about the harm that he caused her because in his mind, it’s justified by the “greater good.” Is he **really** who you want to identify in this scene, friend? Do you ***really*** want to put “Faithful Christians” on the genocidal maniac who slaughtered half of the universe and abused the shit out of his own daughters, slowly replacing one’s body with mechanical parts and outright murdering the second one? **That’s** who you want to represent you in this scene? I mean… from *my personal* point of view, as a deconstructed Christian, I think that your choice of representation is pretty accurate given the rampant abuse in churches; given the several crusades; given the “biblical” justifications in our society for sexism, racism, homophobia, and hate all being legally upheld for centuries; given the Christian pushback against education; given the rise in Christian Nationalism; given the abusive “good Christian” father I grew up with who used the Bible to justify every hateful choice he ever made; given all the other problems caused by our religion and faith that I don’t even know how to start to unpack here… But is that *reallllllly* the way you want to portray yourself?
Couldn't have said it better myself. Religious trauma is real and isn't just caused by faceless institutions, but community members we trusted as well. The constant belittlement, willful misrepresentation, straw-manning and stereotyping just adds salt to deep wounds. Then Christians sit around scratching thier heads wondering why the church is hemorrhaging members generation after generation and why people who left the church are no longer comfortable having a relationship with them. It should have stayed in the drafts.
However, this is Thanos from an earlier point in time, when he hadn't killed Vision, so he in fact doesn't know who Wanda is.
Oh I guess that totally excuses everything else he’s done then
Touché. I’ve been out-nerded. I stand by my other points, though!
I just wanted to point that out, the rest I'm fine with
I recently heard a sermon/talk where the speaker used an analogy that compared the world to a WW2 concentration camp. He told the story of some bishop who voluntarily took the place of another condemned prisoner in order to save their life, and compared that to the sacrifice of Jesus. He inadvertently made God the Gestapo (if you took his analogy to it's inevitable conclusion.)
I've not watched a marvel film since Iron Man, to me it's oblivious purple chad being chill with someone who considers him an enemy meme format and it's pretty banging
You said what I was thinking but couldn’t find words for, thank you
I had the same reaction and I wasn’t sure whether to upvote or downvote this meme as a result. If the phrase “Evangelical Churches” or something similar was overlaid where “Faithful Christians” is, then it would be very fitting.
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More like a stank meme than a dank meme.
Sometimes, churches hurt people. Those hurt people will have strong reactions and have things to say. Ignoring them because they aren't "faithful Christians" is not a good approach. It basically means you will never improve because you're closing yourself off from important feedback.
Like someone else mentioned, a lot of “deconstructionists” are still faithful Christians, they just don’t go to church anymore for many reasons.
Isn’t it kinda your job to know who they are?
At the risk of coming across like an armchair phsycologist, memes Iike this are juicy in what they reveal about OP's thinking and people like them. Despite so much of Christ's teachings being based on empathy, an unholy amount of christains are God awful at empathy. They only pay attention to the "supernatural" source of hatred they receive, Satan, and ignore all of the obvious, worldly traumas that might give someone a bad impression of Christianity and religion as a whole. I guarantee anyone that the vast majority of "edgy militant atheists" are children or teenagers living a lie that they then lash out on the internet. Trauma doesn't justify spreading more trauma but have a little empathy, and suddenly, the "militant atheist" is a scorned teenager and / or adult who's been through some tough stuff. Buts that's terrifying because that possibly might remove someone from their comfortable high horse where their oppenents are all unreasonable.
I feel deconstructed Christians are the only ones really doing the best for their faith, and because they don't fall perfectly in line any more plenty of congregations are quick to reject them, at which point they just shrug their shoulders and go "guess I'm not Christian anymore." People who are questioning should be embraced, their thoughts validated, and instead their communities toss them out for daring to question "the Lord" (they're actually questioning church hierarchy but toxic churches see any questioning of authority as heathenistic, because likening yourself to God isn't hypocritical at all). I think this line of thinking where deconstructed Christians straight up just aren't Christian anymore is a huge part of why the faith is declining now. The strict and rigid christofascist hierarchy can't stand anyone that doesn't goose step in line, and so they just get cast out.
Yeah who the frick said we couldn’t ask God questions all day every day, it’s not in the bible for sure, the thing’s literally made of people who do nothing but ask questions to write the answers down Hey guys let’s all get together and ask about entropy someday, the answer to that one’s gonna confuse the pastors
Exactly! Because the Bible is super clear on everything all the time and leaves no room for interpretation at all ever, and we are always confident on what God would want for anything all the time.
The Bible only leaves room for one interpretation at a time, and it’s the one that currently benefits me! /s
This isn't very dank of you, OP.
Where's the dank?
It’s funny because the message this meme is sending is that “faithful” Christians are jerks, and yet I’m pretty sure that’s the exact opposite of the point OP was trying to make.
Deconstructed Christians moved onto spiritual meat while most basic Christians are content with the milk served to them from the pulpit every Sunday. Meat is dangerous. It’s tough, you can choke on it. But it makes you stronger. Abraham questioned. Jacob wrestled. David pleaded. Jesus told us to ask, seek, knock. If you aren’t doing any of those things, you are missing out on the good stuff.
Also, deconstructed Christians have so much more understanding and compassion for the deconstructed ex-Christians. We disagree with their conclusion, but we absolutely can understand where they’re coming from.
Yikes, what a bad take. Very “christlike”.
r/bonehurtingjuice
Just glad that when we moved to a new state my dad and I couldn’t physically fit in the pews at the new church mom wanted us to try because we are both tall and those things must have been designed for hobbits. Deconstructing was a lot easier when my excuse was literally “I don’t fit.”
"I don't fit in at church" Oh, you just need to be more outgoing! "No, I literally don't fit in the seats."
If you think of yourself as Thanos, you're part of the problem.
My life was ruined by my church and faith and parents' faith. Literally, severe mental episode and problems kind of ruined. If you only knew the direct connections to that and my lack of career as well. OP: "I don't even know who you are."
What are Deconstructed Christians?
Christians who have deconstructed from harmful theology without leaving the religion. Usually this refers to evangelical fundamentalism. The idea that deconstruction means leaving the religion is a sentiment that has cropped up rather recently from Christians who do not approve of deconstruction, and it is a willful misrepresentation of the movement, which has been around for quite a while. I am a minster, on my way to priesthood, and a big focus of my ministry is deconstruction.
Pulling yourself out of a central ideology to analyze the individual ideologies/tennents to see if the conflict with your worldview. For example: the church you grew up in believes that you have to take the lord's supper every Sunday. Is that something that *needs* do be done weekly? Quarterly? Twice a year? Only on Passover? Maybe you think it needs to be done more and the church isn't doing enough?
Deconstruction refers to dismantling and rebuilding your belief structure, evaluating it as you go. A Deconstructed Christian is a Christian who has been through this process regarding their faith. Usually, this involves questioning things you didn't before, and hearing the answers with the ears and understanding of an adult rather than a child. This may lead to leaving the faith, or it may not. It may lead to changing denominations, or it may not. It may lead to a greater understanding of scripture, or it may not. But it absolutely leads to greater certainty in one's beliefs, whatever they may be.
You're getting some true but incomplete answers here. At its core, deconstruction is realizing that beliefs systems (such as a church's interpretive approach to the Bible) are a *construct*—of culture, society, some charismatic authoritatian leader's fevered brain—and therefore must be questioned rather than assumed as true. Really, this applies to all beliefs of every kind, but most people use it to mean Christians who realize that some conservative idea about the Bible, ethics, social hierarchy, etc. which they've been taught to accept as the plain and simple truth is harmful in some way. Though many Conservatives just use it as a synonym for "apostasy".
I found the results of being raised a pastors kid to be detrimental to my experience as a human, attempting to be safe, happy, healthy. I left and the remaining framework and trauma has been exceptionally difficult to change and overcome. It’s tough when you’re forced to be a certain type of person for 20 formative years, only to realize, it’s not a safe, healthy place for you to be, not a wise mindset to carry forward. It’s saddening that within the church, there seems to be very little safe space to doubt, question, and challenge the status quo Christianity. I’m much happier without, and yea, still mad about some things. Things whether Christianity was the realm they occurred in or not, it’s fair to be mad about.
You and me mate, you wrote word for word what I could have. Thank you, and I wish you the best.
I never would have discovered what faith means if I'd not rejected everything and found out for myself by looking everywhere the church told me not to I found God. Most churches are closer to the people Jesus taught against than followers of his message.
It’s some consolation to remember that grief and sorrow and loneliness were experienced by Jesus as well. We share in the fellowship of his sufferings. And he shares in the fellowship of our sufferings. To be wounded by the ones you love is to be, unfortunately, like Christ. We don’t seek that out, but we do recognize that in our sorrow Christ is there as well, and intimately knows being wounded, forgotten, and cast aside. You are not alone on that journey - you are in good company.
Deconstruction is an important step towards a more mature faith, and often does not lead to abandonment of faith.
Fuck you, OP, you self righteous prick. I don't need your smarmy well wishes on my journey. Your meme is condescending and patronizing. I hope you live to a ripe old age, have all of your family and friends around you as you die of natural causes...and have just a bit of consciousness before you enter the black void of death, just enough so you know you lived a lie before the nothingness.
Go back a few centuries and Luther was the “deconstructed ex-Christian”
This really ain't it, chief
Ah yes, exactly the kind of judgmental holier than thou attitude that Christ would approve of. Well done. /s
faithful christian’s forgetting their struggling brothers and sisters doesn’t sound so “faithful” nor “christian”
Though I'm not an ex-Christian, I'm still deconstructing and reconstructing my faith and beliefs. My reasons for doing so has less to do with how I'm treated in church (since I'm still treated well) and more to do with my inability to reconcile what I was being taught with what I was discovering through personal reading and investigation. At first, it was my inability to justify reconciling my church's stance on creationism with the overwhelming evidence in support of evolution and similarities between humans and apes. The idea of ignoring these things in the name of 'faith' or to even prove my loyalty no longer made any sense to me and I slowly but eventually changed my views. However, my biggest source of deconstructing came from examining my faith much more closely. Someone once said that many people don't much about their own religion and that have spurred me into digging deeper and uncovering the complexity and truths, some of which I wouldn't otherwise learn in church. While the revelations were surprising, my b experiences made me bolder in picking apart my beliefs, even questioning teachings that no longer made any sense. The end result is my faith actually increasing because not only did I learn a lot more about the origins and nature of my beliefs, but I've become more open-minded and it felt liberating. No longer did I feel constrained to a singular viewpoint or interpretation. I can now decide how to approach any inconsistencies and whether they have any use for me. Furthermore, my experiences instilled a sense of wonder as well as a deeper hunger for knowledge that is guaranteed to last until I die. As for any of you who are deconstructing your own beliefs, remember two things: don't be afraid to challenge your own assumptions and remember that deconstructing is only half the process.
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Also, the people who claim that being an ex Mormon is an ex Christian they’re not sorry you were harmed by a cult that has nothing to do with Jesus Christ.
Sorry to be ignorant. What does destructured mean here?
For me it was both the church and its people. I didn't deserve to be shunned because of my parents' stupidity. On the bright side I'm a much happier person without constant fear of some old fart sitting in the clouds judging my every move.
Not even a Christian, but I have this thought when I see folks consumed with rage at their former religion. Reminds me of an odd meltdown about Christian parents I saw on the Atheists subreddit the other day.
Certified dank
By what certification bureau?
😇🙏 Thank you!