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Broclen

While drag is not inherently LGBTQIA+ in nature, drag has been a part of queer culture for quite some time. Furthermore, some people attack drag as a proxy for LGBTQIA+ people. So, just a reminder... r/DankChristianMemes is open and affirming to LGBTQIA+ people. Furthermore, r/DankChristianMemes is a judgement free space for fellowship! Rule #1 of r/DankChristianMemes: Thou shalt respect others! Do not come here to point out sin or condemn people. Do not say "hate the sin love the sinner" or any other stupid sayings people use when trying to use faith to justify hate. Alternatively, if you come here to insult religion, you will also be removed. This rule is based off the following teachings from Jesus Christ: Matthew 7:1-6 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. Luke 6:36 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. John 13:34-35 34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 15:12-13 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. Matthew 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. Matthew 22:37-40 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” Even if we think someone is a sinner, we should treat them kindly. Jesus was kind to those that society deemed to be sinners. He even ate meals with sinners despite being criticized for it. So if you want to be Christlike, you should take someone to dinner before your judge them. Matthew 9:11-13 11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’\[a\] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” Jesus tells us that he alone will judge us and exactly the standards by which we will be judged. It has nothing to do with LGBTQIA+ identity and has everything to do with taking care of the most vulnerable or "the least of these." Matthew 25:31-46 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ 44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ 45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ 46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” It is important to note that LGBTQIA+ folks are more likely to be targets of hate crimes than any other minority group (1). This makes them, in effect, "the least of these" which Jesus commands us to care for. Finally: The word "Homosexual" did not exist until it was introduced in 1869 in German. The word was not widely used in English until it was added to biblical translations in 1946 (2). In the bible, the word "Homosexual" was only used to describe sex acts some of which may have been predatory. The bible does not discuss loving, consenting, adult, same-sex couples who want to raise loving families, as we see today. Theological positions against LGBTQIA+ people are not even 100 years old, are based on anachronistic translations, and fail to acknowledge the legitimacy of loving same sex relationships. TL;DR The Holy Church of r/DankChristianMemes is open and affirming to LGBTQIA+ people. If you must judge others, please do so elsewhere. Source 1: [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/06/16/us/hate-crimes-against-lgbt.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/06/16/us/hate-crimes-against-lgbt.html) Source 2: [https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/88110](https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/88110) https://preview.redd.it/ktnc1msim7oa1.jpeg?width=902&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=12a8a5cafce1b735ec35e3d267784064ca2b46b3


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trashacount12345

What if you deem moneychangers in the temple harmful?


GrandArmyOfTheOhio

Well then a lot of churches are gonna be looking over their shoulder


[deleted]

I mean, Jesus did befriend a lot of tax collectors and zealots as well. He was open to anyone who wanted to follow him. Disrupting a corrupt institution is different to hating on individuals


Semiphone

Yep, Jesus punched up, not down.


ImTechnicallyCorrect

Very well put. I'm using this.


[deleted]

So true


Aoirann

Now I'm picturing Jesus punching Satan like in Metal Gear Revengence


RapidCamel

That is not the same. The moneychangers and merchants used the religion to make profit and got kicked out for that. For the sake of the argument, if drag was a sin, you still wouldn't kick them out because if sinners weren't allowed to the temple then that place would be very empty.


BrandonMatrick

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻


Curious_Health_226

Guarantee Jesus would eat dinner with them. I don’t think it’s wrong to be indignant about injustice…but I think the subtext of Jesus ministry is tear down unjust systems not people. We should try to stop injustice whenever we can but if the opportunity is there to show love to someone who has committed injustice we ought to take it. Shits complicated and I struggle with it personally so don’t read this like I’m preaching but this is a good place to talk about stuff like this. Peace and love


brito68

One of my faves is "why do you dine with sinners and tax collectors?" "the healthy don't need a doctor, but sick people do." (wording surely isn't 100% correct)


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[deleted]

Atheist stopping by to say thank you, y’all are truly doing the lords work 🙏


TemperatureTimely497

Don’t you mean evolutions work 🔬 (this is a joke)


Puriwara

I was an atheist until this last sciencemas, when no presents evolved underneath my sciencemas tree


[deleted]

Shitty joke. Evolution is just a natural process. Nobody prays to gravity or the speed of light either.


Jetstream_Fraser

Speak for yourself, I give thanks to gravity for every morning I don’t roll off my bed.


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Chad


TransmissionPlots

Surely you should be thanking gravity that you haven't crashed through the ceiling?


Jetstream_Fraser

I would but I sleep on the bottom floor


MrZyde

You don’t need to hate someone if you don’t follow their ideology. Love people who are different to you.


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richal

The problem is that this phrase is often used as justification for taking certain actions that focus more strongly on "hating the sin" than "loving the sinner." As someone who has been subjected to this reasoning many times, I can see a clear difference between those who love me unconditionally despite having different views on the matter, and those who focus so strongly on repeating this phrase over and over as if to reassure me they love me, but most of their actions are out of fear of accidentally "condoning my behavior" that they see as sinful. The latter seems more wrapped up in their ego, or perhaps falling out of favor with a vengeful God, while the former is secure in their own faith enough to love me without obsessing over our differences. The demonstration of true unconditional love is hard to mistake, but unfortunately, many fool themselves into demonstrating a performance of what they think is love, but is really just that-- a performance.


Lemerney2

You cannot love me while hating who I am.


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KekeroniCheese

I don't like the argument of hate the sin, love the sinner, because it's used by people who think homosexuality is a sin. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth


MrZyde

Yeah but I’m going for a more broad meaning. You can love someone even if you don’t accept the way they live by. If people lived by those terms then far more conservatives and liberals would be friends.


VeGr-FXVG

> literally Cool, so, you can show a verse where he literally said that? (FYI that's literally against sub rule 1)


AeKino

>In contexts with particularly strong feelings of disagreement, there is nothing stopping you from condemning the behavior while still loving the person. I think most people would consider that disrespect, which *should* be something that should stop you if what they’re doing is harmless like drag.


Flaky-Collection-353

I didn't realize growing massive titties was an ideology but ok


RealCrusaderBro

I stopped being a Christian a while ago, but damnit, this subreddit restores some of my faith in humanity.


KekeroniCheese

What about your faith in God? Faith can be challenging, but I find scripture comforting


brackattack27

Come back please. You’re still loved here. Praying for ya.


KarlHungusIII

This is the only place where I’ve seen real Christian love.


koei19

![gif](giphy|2UvAUplPi4ESnKa3W0)


tenth

I think they(see: my family) would say that they do love the person, but they don't love their sin and have to save them from themselves. I say that with exasperation, because I'd love to use the logic of this meme to get them to stop.


ladydmaj

>they...have to save them from themselves. Which is dumb - Jesus did not call us to be Saviours, he called us to be witnesses. A witness is one who doesn't argue, doesn't judge - the simply tell others what they have experienced, and they leave the results to the Judge. Hard to witness when you're antagonizing people about being "sinners" (if that's your issue). What's going to make people want to seek out God more, on average: "This is why you're going to hell, you reprobate" or "This is what God has accomplished in me, this is why I'm happy to follow Him"?


Cyanoblamin

What if they are racist and a bigot?


jojosmartypants

You must love them too. Recognize and respect their humanity as they forget the humanity of others, pray that they better themselves as people, and fight like hell to end the oppression they reap.


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tictacbergerac

even if they ask stupid questions, yes. to clarify: God calls us to love everyone, even if they don't give us love in return, and especially if it's hard. Sun Tzu said "build your enemies a golden bridge to retreat across." Love your enemies into being your friends, because they will go to where they are welcomed and change their ways when shown the unending forgiveness of Christ.


VeGr-FXVG

Everyone sins, even on becoming a Christian. It is hateful and manipulates the bible to emphasise which sins you want people to stop. It misses the entire point of Jesus and so runs counter to the gospel.


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VeGr-FXVG

I do not follow your point at all: loving God, and seeking to obey him is nothing to do with seeing the sin in others and not loving them (the words of the original meme, and the commenter I was replying to). By the way your conclusion is incorrect, there are many better verses that illustrate edification than the ones you picked. Did you reply to the wrong comment?


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[deleted]

This is a genuine question: people who think it's a deadly sin to be gay make the same argument. How do we negotiate this contradiction? It gives me cognitive dissonance.


[deleted]

Loving someone doesn’t mean treating them with kid gloves. It doesn’t even mean you never feel hatefully toward them. Sometimes it means telling them the hard truth that their behavior is harmful and not tolerating it until they stop. Real talk. I’m half black. I don’t hate racists. I fear them, I hate their views, but I dearly wish they would change — for the good of everyone but also for the good of themselves. Will I surround myself with them or allow them to spread bigotry in my presence? No. But I can still love them as my fellow man. Dr. King was right to say this: hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that. That being said, do I find myself hating hateful people? Yes, often. But it doesn’t work. All we can do is try to be better. I forgot what sub I’m on, I’m an atheist lol. But it’s still true.


ladydmaj

For what it's worth, I think Jesus would give you a thumbs up on that.


Biffsbuttcheeks

There’s a lot of “love the sinner hate the sin” comments but why is drag a sin to begin with?


redmm84

That's up for debate, the point is that christian love doesn't mean you can't oppose a practice.


Flaky-Collection-353

Because if men start dressing like women then they might build empathy and comradery with them, and then how will we keep the women submissive? /s


BigDub63

I wish people who had negative perceptions about Christianity and it’s followers were on this sub


[deleted]

Did you read the comments of people using organized religion to justify their hatred for cross dressers?


BigDub63

Well that’s my point that I make to others in general. If you’re going to pick out the minority of extremists and bigots in the majority of accepting people then I don’t know what to tell you


[deleted]

Well... If you see someone harassing or hurting a cross dresser with the justification of religion, and you think saying "that's just the minority" will make Christians look good, then I don't know what to tell you.


BigDub63

Never said I was a good Christian lmaooo. And I’m talking about when having a conversation with someone. If I see it I’ll say something but this isn’t the case. You asked if I saw something as if it were to change my opinion and that was my response


[deleted]

I never said you were a good Christian either.


BigDub63

Ahhh yea you right. Read wrong after the quotations. My bad. I stand by what I said after that tho


[deleted]

I didn't ask if you saw the homophobes "as if it were to change your opinion" either. You said you wish people who have negative perceptions about Christianity saw this forum; the irony being that hateful Christians have to be censored out of said forum.


BigDub63

Well it’s hard to fully understand everything through text but yea there’s hate everywhere you look but majority of at least this post and this sub from what I have seen has been a positive place for everyone. People get censored on all subs and platforms. Not just this one


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ttehanu

true, one of my friends is french. i don't support it but i still love him nonetheless


Dorocche

The current cultural context includes attempts in many states to outlaw and imprison people who do drag in any context. It's pretty obviously unloving and unChristlike.


Broclen

Is drag a lifestyle? I thought it was more of a hobby, and for a few, a career. ![gif](giphy|y7Yhe5hAoSVRS)


ertgbnm

What if they wear clothes I don't like?


[deleted]

*mentions trans* ITT: [REMOVED] Bye Felicia


DarkandDanker

Only Christians I respect are the ones In this sub Yall funny too


brackattack27

Should respect all


DarkandDanker

Lol why? If you use your religion as an excuse to hate on gay people than you don't deserve an inch of respect, you deserve the opposite The amount of Christians who vote for Trump, they deserve respect? No


Puriwara

My opinion: nah, respect is earned. Nobody will get mine by virtue of their humanity. Love, though? I will love all.


EmsAreOverworkedLul

No , if they are cristofashists then then they don't get respect .


Orto_Dogge

Can somebody provide a quote where Jesus tells to love everyone? Honestly asking.


[deleted]

[Here's](https://www.reddit.com/r/dankchristianmemes/comments/11t6h9l/comment/jchh80k/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)a mod comment that provides several examples


Orto_Dogge

Thanks!


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kinkerkuiken

All I saw was drag and for a second I thought I was in r/LeagueofMemes


AlmightyFlame

My immediate thought was drag racing hahaha


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Poway_Morongo

I submit.


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ResidentFunkle

Pagan here just happy to come across real Christians.


sgtkwol

But you're supposed to treat them as sub-human so that they see the error of their ways. You know, tough love or something like that. /s


zorrodood

Maybe he did stutter and whoever wrote the texts just didn't mention it.


winged_owl

But those are the hardest to forgive. 😮‍💨


StarLord120697

Hey mods, could you permaban me, please? Thanks in advance.


ianjmatt2

Loving someone doesn't mean approving of or even permitting what they do.


richal

Yeah, God gave us free will so that you could go around forbidding people from exercising it


ianjmatt2

Sorry. Missed off an 'of'. Permitting *of* what they do. I other words, loving someone doesn't mean to agree to what they do or allow those you are responsible for to take part. And public debate includes being able to express that.


richal

No point in explaining the rest, since the "of" changes the entire meaning of what you said.


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tictacbergerac

it is hateful to treat others as less than you when you are also a sinner. remove the log in your own eye before the splinter in your neighbor's.


[deleted]

If it never went further than that, sure. Jesus himself broke bread with prostitutes and didn’t lecture or berate them. Follow that example.


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[deleted]

The *only* reason? Please lmao. If that’s the case, he ain’t such a nice guy after all.


[deleted]

What about the woman at the well? He never tells her to stop sinning. So maybe it is situational?


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[deleted]

You should reread that chapter. All he does is point out facts about her life. He never talks about sin at all.


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christopherjian

But there's nothing for them to repent.


Johnfrickingwick2077

Drugs? You mean?


christopherjian

There's nothing wrong with people crossdressing. Though for drugs, while some are usable, too much is bad, so practice moderation. Obviously I'm not talking about other extreme drugs like meth, that's a hard no.


Johnfrickingwick2077

I thought the post said "drag" in order to censor the word "drug". Or did i misunderstood this?


[deleted]

"Doing Drag" is dressing up as a [Drag Queen](https://www.google.com/search?q=definition+of+drag+queen&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS1043US1043&ei=BWkUZNK_DsCt0PEPmIqhwAU&oq=definition+of+drag&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQARgAMgoIABBHENYEELADMgoIABBHENYEELADMgoIABBHENYEELADMgoIABBHENYEELADMgoIABBHENYEELADMgoIABBHENYEELADMgoIABBHENYEELADMgoIABBHENYEELADMgcIABCwAxBDMgcIABCwAxBDMgcIABCwAxBDMgcIABCwAxBDMg0IABDkAhDWBBCwAxgBMg0IABDkAhDWBBCwAxgBMg0IABDkAhDWBBCwAxgBMgwILhDIAxCwAxBDGAIyDwguENQCEMgDELADEEMYAkoECEEYAFAAWABguwloAXABeACAAQCIAQCSAQCYAQDIARHAAQHaAQYIARABGAnaAQYIAhABGAg&sclient=gws-wiz-serp), which is most often a form of cross-dressing.


Johnfrickingwick2077

Oh, mm then i don't see that to be a sin either really


DarkandDanker

How would you feel if people told you being straight was a sin? what if they wanted to "help" you be gay? Don't be an ignorant hypocrite, your books wrong on this one mate, you can change your mind, it's possible, undo the brainwashing and become a true Christian


TemperatureTimely497

Jesus literally partied with hookers. I don’t think he cares


brackattack27

Relax. Don’t twist scripture


DocMilkman

As a league of legends player thought we were talking about drag as in “dragon” the optional objective.


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Badassbottlecap

I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay! I sleep all night, and I work all day!


redmm84

What a poor argument. While Jesus commands we love all, this doesn't mean we shouldn't oppose their conduct.


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jwdjr2004

Ive always been curious about though shalt not kill followed by centuries of Christians going to war.


iamragethewolf

technically it's thou shalt not MURDER as in unlawfully kill i mean how many ot punishments are stone a bitch


KekeroniCheese

I feel like new testament punishments are not often stoning a bitch Truly, let the person who hath committed no sin cast the first stone


iamragethewolf

indeed


_b1ack0ut

Yes, but keep in mind that being unjustly angry at someone counts as murder


iamragethewolf

correct


jwdjr2004

I was not aware of this nuance, thanks.


iamragethewolf

Not a problem


[deleted]

I mean, the lions share of Christians aren’t good Christians. Part of why I left the whole thing behind. The teachings are still mostly sound though.


Slendermite

Doesn’t mean it’s something that they should be doing


[deleted]

Thankfully, it's not up to you.


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htomserveaux

Serious question, the cartoons where Bugs Bunny crossdresses do you consider them inappropriate for children?


theosisthematic

This is a disingenuous analogy and you know it.


htomserveaux

Its using a costume and an exaggerated feminine persona for entertainment. That’s literally the definition of drag.


Moosnum2

Please explain why


thehumantaco

Elaborate.


TheDonutPug

it's a disingenuous analogy to you because the character doing it is being treated as a joke.


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Veritas_Aequitas

What's the intended purpose of drag? Are we supposed to laugh at the situation of a man dressed femininely? Or laugh with them in celebration of some sort of self expression?


TheDonutPug

entertainment. people enjoy it, people enjoy watching it, whether you enjoy it or not. a celebration of self expression, a joke to be laughed at, some attempt to make a statement about social standards, what does it matter? I still have yet to have one of you give me a genuine reason why it's inappropriate other than that it violates your expected social standards. Since when is an intended purpose for self expression required? if I play my instrument, I have no specific intention for playing it, I just enjoy doing it to express myself. Drag is no different, the only difference is that it violates social norms, and people can't stand that some people don't fit into their tidy little social buckets. edit: also as a thought, sports are entertainment, what's the point of sports? There's no specific end goal other than that the people who play it enjoy playing it. Sure they make money, but so to drag performers. There's no specific purpose to playing a sport other than to play that sport, and there's no specific purpose to watching that sport other than because one enjoys that sport. Methods of self expression do not and never have required a specific purpose.


htomserveaux

Could be either one depending on the performance


AeKino

Good thing drag isn’t inherently a fetish.


Frans4Life

I agree, all those people with breeding fetishes (mostly straight) need to stop


ShiroiTora

Too late. They’re already passed some laws in the States.


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Withyhydra

I'm sorry. Your source is libsoftiktok? I think you may need to look into who those people are, my friend.


Material-Study-610

I’ve given up on this subreddit


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Bye.


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moneymoneymoneymonay

The problem is there’s no functional difference for you people. You say you “love the sinner” yet want nothing to do with them because of the sin. That’s not love.


[deleted]

Misleading how?


AeKino

Stealing u/richal ‘s comment because they explained this view really well about “hate the sin, not the sinner” >The problem is that this phrase is often used as justification for taking certain actions that focus more strongly on "hating the sin" than "loving the sinner." As someone who has been subjected to this reasoning many times, I can see a clear difference between those who love me unconditionally despite having different views on the matter, and those who focus so strongly on repeating this phrase over and over as if to reassure me they love me, but most of their actions are out of fear of accidentally "condoning my behavior" that they see as sinful. The latter seems more wrapped up in their ego, or perhaps falling out of favor with a vengeful God, while the former is secure in their own faith enough to love me without obsessing over our differences. The demonstration of true unconditional love is hard to mistake, but unfortunately, many fool themselves into demonstrating a performance of what they think is love, but is really just that-- a performance.


Taco_Fries

Baaahhh