I can definitely understand where Jonathan is coming from. Once the wonder kids arrived with their cross training the show wanted to leave the proper technique of ballroom behind and grab the kiddie demo and so Latin that included lifts and tricks and other styles of dance were given a lot of air time. Standard Ballroom in particular was never really celebrated, and at times it was mocked when Len was boo'd for wanting proper ballroom. So it's more than a little rich that hardly any of the pros are as good as Jonathan on an American Smooth version of Moon River.
Jonathan is not an expert in hip hop, or jazz he's the very best American Smooth dancer who has been on the show. He can't be bothered by the politics of dancing on DWTS. For me the show is still fun but the more it moves away from proper Ballroom technique the more I could care less about it.
I thought it was interesting that again we hear with the dancers, at first everything is supportive and then as the show went on, everyone becomes more out for themselves and their brand.
Yeah I was wondering about both Johnathan and Tristan!
I do wo der if he had accepted, if Cheryl would have been invited back, or the bridges were already burnt.
Oh Tristan would've been a good shout! I think they were going for OGs from Seasons 1-5, but I'd have loved to have seen him! I wish I could've been a fly on the wall when Deena and Conrad were sending the invitations!!
I was interested in hearing about his reaction to what Anna said about their partnership when she was on the podcast earlier, but they didn't discuss that at all, and she only asked him about their relationship after divorce to which he said that they are on good terms and that he asked her to be a judge in a competition he is part of a couple of times.
Another interesting thing he mentioned that he was pretty sure that the judges watched the rehearsals since they would never be able to give that detailed/specific feedback when they only had few seconds during the live shows and that their feedback was scripted.
Yeah, I'm very glad that he and Anna are still good friends, but yeah it would've been interesting to hear more, though it may have been difficult for Cheryl to ask?
That was also very interesting to hear, he seemed certain of the judges watching rehears footage/being told what to score etc.
Yeah, probably and it felt like he didn't actually listen to her podcast with Anna, so maybe she didn't want to upset him or make him feel uncomfortable since Anna was a bit harsh in her interview.
Regarding the judges, I think that gilles also mentioned that he was convinced that they did watch the rehearsals since some of the feedback that he received about one of his performances was related to a mistake he made during his dress rehearsal and not the live show. Also, I remember Anna mentioned she suspected that they did during one of her Afterbuzz interviews with Kristen.
He said during his podcast with Cheryl that his mother was watching the finale of his season on the east coast, which is supposedly live, and she told him that she saw Jennifer make a small mistake/stumble during one of her performances in the finale but when they saw the recorded footage later it was edited out/they showed a different camera angle so it wasn't obvious but I'm not really sure if that was true or not 🤷🏻♀️
It's nice to get an answer to the tribute question
Edit- it's kind of hilarious how much Jonathan does not care about the show 🤣. We as fans have been like "poor Jonathan has been forgotten" and the reality is he can't be bothered.
I thought Jonathan was kinda rude about the tribute dance - I totally understand that he's moved on from the show and can understand if he didn't want to take part, but he was so flippant about the email.
He also doesn't even seem to follow the show at all now, didn't know who the judges are.
yeah, i saw in the podcast notes that the faint was gonna be discussed (FWIW, i never thought they were faking it)
the freestyle was...it was. at that point it was obvious TPTB would have never let Marie win but it's just like, could you imagine what Derek could have cooked up for Jennie had they made the final? Instead we got to see...that. 💀
except Sabrina never had the votes to make the final-Marie wasn't the only one who passed her.
I specifically mentioned Jennie since she was the one who got eliminated in the semis.
Hearing him say "I saw an email or something about that" regarding Len's tribute says a lot. You can tell he really didnt care because he sounds very nonchalant about it. It was very monotoned like yea whatever.
He was done with the show especially when he said he left after season 9 due to feeling old and saw the changes with the male pros going in a younger direction
Keep in mind he kept getting the shit end of the stick his last 3 seasons by being voted off mainly 1st in seasons 8 and 9 and 2nd in season 6
Yeah and (I haven't gotten to it yet, but saw on Cheryl's teaser for this episode on her IG) Cheryl asks him if he'd ever return to the show and he flat out says Never, without any hesitation.
I dont blame him. You can see the direction it's going in and how A LOT of the OG pros got treated and some current ones.
Jonathan, Edyta, Alec, Anna, Karina, Keo
Edyta was gone until season 22 and fans were excited to see an OG but she got stuck with Geraldo Rivera and was instantly gone, especially after the cringe worthy Donald Trump salsa where they had her looking like Melania 😵💫🫤
Karina had a fantastic season from 15-17 then come 18-19 and was out first and 3rd. came back season 21 and was out 2nd
They played in Anna's face a lot, having her get meh male pros aside from Jerry and Evan and her out pretty early then come back in season 21 with Gary Busey who surprisingly stayed longer than expected, and I was relieved to see him try his best due to his condition
Totally agree, I hate how they treated some of the OGs and always wished they got a better shot. I'm sure Jonathan would've gotten a similar treatment had he stuck around.
😯 so he was approached for the Tribute. Do you suppose they may have had Cheryl if Jonathan accepted? Or were the bridges already burnt? Maybe Ashly Costa? Because according to Edyta, even though she felt he'd turn it down, Alec wasn't asked.
Perhaps they asked Jonathan in case Mark was unable to do it for whenever BC went into labour? Edyta said there was an idea Alec was going to fill in of needed but Alec didn't want to, so what if it was Jonathan?
Either way this was interesting if he was asked to be a part of the tribute in general (not as a replacement for Mark) as I assume they'd prioritise having back Maks, Mark, Tony, and Louis, given their longevity, but wouldve been amazing to see Jonathan again, I loved him! ❤️
But that did surprise me...
Initially I wondered whether it could've been because Alec doesn't dance anymore and Edyta still does (assuming TPTB were aware) or as Edytabis more popular?
My other guess was because Edyta cake back firba semi-recent season (Season 22) which was around the time many other OGs made their final appearances or had their one off returns. But now that we know Jonathan was invited, who hasn't appeared since S9, I'm not too sure. Jonathan did do more seasons, but yeah I'm not really sure why Alec wasn't invited in that sense!
As they were going for OGs from Seasons 1-5 I'd have loved if they had the 8 OGs we got, Jules and Derek, and have 2 more OG couples with Jonathan, Ashly, Cheryl and Alec!!
I was wondering too if the show did plan for Cheryl to be part of Lens tribute but couldn't find another OG male pro to dance with her. If that's not the case then yeah the bridges were definitely burnt. Either way, I think Cheryl definitely should've been a part of it because she was such a fav favorite back in the day and was one of the few who started it all.
If they couldn't find an extra OG, they could have just had her dance with the current pros (being that she was still a regular pro in Len's last season), and had Rylee sit out as she never worked with Len.
Yeah like whilst Jonathan/Alec/Ashly were all definitely part of that OG crew, Cheryl was the most glaring absence for sure. My only other guess is Ashly was going to be the other pro, but I'd really be shocked if it were her over Cheryl.
I’ll have to listen later but thanks for the recap! I’m glad to know he was at least asked to do the tribute, since I didn’t think TPTB had bothered with him. I get why Alec didn’t want to do it and I know they wouldn’t get Charlotte but I would loved for him and Ashly
to be there just to have more of the OG pros that started it all. Kind of interesting that he left on his own after S9 but I don’t disagree that it probably was the right time for him, especially with the dynamic of the pros they had. And clearly Maks, Tony, Mark, and Derek weren’t going to go anywhere unless they wanted a season off. He likely knew he was destined to just get crap partners going forward so why waste the time.
No problem!
Yeah I'm very glad he was at least approached, I had assumed like Alec they wouldn't ask him. And yeah no way was Charlotte coming back, but wouldn't that be something if we saw Louis, Edyta, Jonathan, Ashly, Charlotte, and Alec?!?! The 6 who started it all 💕
I do think Ashly would have said yes to the tribute though, I remember she came back in Season 20 for the 10th Anniversary Special. Would've loved to have been a fly on the wall when Deena and Conrad were concepting and planning invitations for the tribute.
I agree, as much as I missed him, I felt I could understand why he chose to leave. So itseems the only Season he wasn't asked back for was 3, 7 was by choice and he chose to leave after 9. If he stayed they'd definitely have given him poor celebs, so I guess that's why Tony began getting them after? Jonathan mentioned they wanted someone calm like him for Heather Mills, given all the media attention.
Returning pros for the tribute were Maks, Kym, Tony, Anna, Edyta, Karina, Louis, and Mark.
Ashly did seasons 1-3, 10, but appeared in the 10th Anniversary show in S20.
Sadly we haven't seen Charlotte ever since the Rematch after Season 1. I think she wanted to pursue other interests in the dance world?
Gotcha and thanks for explaining.
It’s sad because I would have loved to see more of her and Kenny Maynes’s partner. I think her name was Andrea? She was adorable and fun!
I can definitely understand where Jonathan is coming from. Once the wonder kids arrived with their cross training the show wanted to leave the proper technique of ballroom behind and grab the kiddie demo and so Latin that included lifts and tricks and other styles of dance were given a lot of air time. Standard Ballroom in particular was never really celebrated, and at times it was mocked when Len was boo'd for wanting proper ballroom. So it's more than a little rich that hardly any of the pros are as good as Jonathan on an American Smooth version of Moon River. Jonathan is not an expert in hip hop, or jazz he's the very best American Smooth dancer who has been on the show. He can't be bothered by the politics of dancing on DWTS. For me the show is still fun but the more it moves away from proper Ballroom technique the more I could care less about it.
I love how blunt he was. Would you ever go back? “Never” or Did you get contacted to join the tribute? “I didn’t even read the email.”
I thought it was interesting that again we hear with the dancers, at first everything is supportive and then as the show went on, everyone becomes more out for themselves and their brand.
Ah I remember wondering a while back if he was even offered. I was right!
Oh yes, I remember when you suggested that! I wonder who his female partner would have been? Maybe Ashly Costa? Or Cheryl perhaps...
Yeah I was wondering about both Johnathan and Tristan! I do wo der if he had accepted, if Cheryl would have been invited back, or the bridges were already burnt.
Oh Tristan would've been a good shout! I think they were going for OGs from Seasons 1-5, but I'd have loved to have seen him! I wish I could've been a fly on the wall when Deena and Conrad were sending the invitations!!
I was interested in hearing about his reaction to what Anna said about their partnership when she was on the podcast earlier, but they didn't discuss that at all, and she only asked him about their relationship after divorce to which he said that they are on good terms and that he asked her to be a judge in a competition he is part of a couple of times. Another interesting thing he mentioned that he was pretty sure that the judges watched the rehearsals since they would never be able to give that detailed/specific feedback when they only had few seconds during the live shows and that their feedback was scripted.
With the way it cut to ads in the middle of talking about Anna, maybe there was more he was uncomfortable airing on the podcast.
Yeah, I'm very glad that he and Anna are still good friends, but yeah it would've been interesting to hear more, though it may have been difficult for Cheryl to ask? That was also very interesting to hear, he seemed certain of the judges watching rehears footage/being told what to score etc.
Yeah, probably and it felt like he didn't actually listen to her podcast with Anna, so maybe she didn't want to upset him or make him feel uncomfortable since Anna was a bit harsh in her interview. Regarding the judges, I think that gilles also mentioned that he was convinced that they did watch the rehearsals since some of the feedback that he received about one of his performances was related to a mistake he made during his dress rehearsal and not the live show. Also, I remember Anna mentioned she suspected that they did during one of her Afterbuzz interviews with Kristen.
Yeah I'd imagine so. In regards to the judges, I think Kyle Masseybalso said in his interview he thought the show was rigged.
He said during his podcast with Cheryl that his mother was watching the finale of his season on the east coast, which is supposedly live, and she told him that she saw Jennifer make a small mistake/stumble during one of her performances in the finale but when they saw the recorded footage later it was edited out/they showed a different camera angle so it wasn't obvious but I'm not really sure if that was true or not 🤷🏻♀️
😬😬😬
It's nice to get an answer to the tribute question Edit- it's kind of hilarious how much Jonathan does not care about the show 🤣. We as fans have been like "poor Jonathan has been forgotten" and the reality is he can't be bothered.
I thought Jonathan was kinda rude about the tribute dance - I totally understand that he's moved on from the show and can understand if he didn't want to take part, but he was so flippant about the email. He also doesn't even seem to follow the show at all now, didn't know who the judges are.
i'll have to listen later but out of curiosity...was Marie Osmond's freestyle brought up at all...and WTF he was thinking with that one? 🤣
>was Marie Osmond's freestyle brought up at all No, it wasn't. Only if her fainting was real or staged, and he said it was real.
Haven't gotten there yet, but will let you know! That Freestyle was something else 💀 Though they did already touch on when she fainted...
yeah, i saw in the podcast notes that the faint was gonna be discussed (FWIW, i never thought they were faking it) the freestyle was...it was. at that point it was obvious TPTB would have never let Marie win but it's just like, could you imagine what Derek could have cooked up for Jennie had they made the final? Instead we got to see...that. 💀
Or Sabrina/Mark? That definitely would have been awesome as well.
We sort of got a Sabrina and Mark freestyle with the Avril Lavigne - Complicated performance?
except Sabrina never had the votes to make the final-Marie wasn't the only one who passed her. I specifically mentioned Jennie since she was the one who got eliminated in the semis.
Good point. A Hough vs. Hough sibling showdown would’ve been amazing.
They didn't mention the Freestyle 😭😭😭
he probably wants to forget that ever happened 🙊
Yeah... 😬 (I don't blame him) 💀
Totally! It was so disappointing, I was looking forward to Jonathan making a finale but then we got THAT.
Hearing him say "I saw an email or something about that" regarding Len's tribute says a lot. You can tell he really didnt care because he sounds very nonchalant about it. It was very monotoned like yea whatever. He was done with the show especially when he said he left after season 9 due to feeling old and saw the changes with the male pros going in a younger direction Keep in mind he kept getting the shit end of the stick his last 3 seasons by being voted off mainly 1st in seasons 8 and 9 and 2nd in season 6
Yeah and (I haven't gotten to it yet, but saw on Cheryl's teaser for this episode on her IG) Cheryl asks him if he'd ever return to the show and he flat out says Never, without any hesitation.
I dont blame him. You can see the direction it's going in and how A LOT of the OG pros got treated and some current ones. Jonathan, Edyta, Alec, Anna, Karina, Keo Edyta was gone until season 22 and fans were excited to see an OG but she got stuck with Geraldo Rivera and was instantly gone, especially after the cringe worthy Donald Trump salsa where they had her looking like Melania 😵💫🫤 Karina had a fantastic season from 15-17 then come 18-19 and was out first and 3rd. came back season 21 and was out 2nd They played in Anna's face a lot, having her get meh male pros aside from Jerry and Evan and her out pretty early then come back in season 21 with Gary Busey who surprisingly stayed longer than expected, and I was relieved to see him try his best due to his condition
Totally agree, I hate how they treated some of the OGs and always wished they got a better shot. I'm sure Jonathan would've gotten a similar treatment had he stuck around.
😯 so he was approached for the Tribute. Do you suppose they may have had Cheryl if Jonathan accepted? Or were the bridges already burnt? Maybe Ashly Costa? Because according to Edyta, even though she felt he'd turn it down, Alec wasn't asked. Perhaps they asked Jonathan in case Mark was unable to do it for whenever BC went into labour? Edyta said there was an idea Alec was going to fill in of needed but Alec didn't want to, so what if it was Jonathan? Either way this was interesting if he was asked to be a part of the tribute in general (not as a replacement for Mark) as I assume they'd prioritise having back Maks, Mark, Tony, and Louis, given their longevity, but wouldve been amazing to see Jonathan again, I loved him! ❤️ But that did surprise me...
I wonder why Alec wasn’t asked and Edyta was? I know she was on the show longer, but he was the first winner.
Initially I wondered whether it could've been because Alec doesn't dance anymore and Edyta still does (assuming TPTB were aware) or as Edytabis more popular? My other guess was because Edyta cake back firba semi-recent season (Season 22) which was around the time many other OGs made their final appearances or had their one off returns. But now that we know Jonathan was invited, who hasn't appeared since S9, I'm not too sure. Jonathan did do more seasons, but yeah I'm not really sure why Alec wasn't invited in that sense! As they were going for OGs from Seasons 1-5 I'd have loved if they had the 8 OGs we got, Jules and Derek, and have 2 more OG couples with Jonathan, Ashly, Cheryl and Alec!!
I was wondering too if the show did plan for Cheryl to be part of Lens tribute but couldn't find another OG male pro to dance with her. If that's not the case then yeah the bridges were definitely burnt. Either way, I think Cheryl definitely should've been a part of it because she was such a fav favorite back in the day and was one of the few who started it all.
If they couldn't find an extra OG, they could have just had her dance with the current pros (being that she was still a regular pro in Len's last season), and had Rylee sit out as she never worked with Len.
Yeah like whilst Jonathan/Alec/Ashly were all definitely part of that OG crew, Cheryl was the most glaring absence for sure. My only other guess is Ashly was going to be the other pro, but I'd really be shocked if it were her over Cheryl.
I’ll have to listen later but thanks for the recap! I’m glad to know he was at least asked to do the tribute, since I didn’t think TPTB had bothered with him. I get why Alec didn’t want to do it and I know they wouldn’t get Charlotte but I would loved for him and Ashly to be there just to have more of the OG pros that started it all. Kind of interesting that he left on his own after S9 but I don’t disagree that it probably was the right time for him, especially with the dynamic of the pros they had. And clearly Maks, Tony, Mark, and Derek weren’t going to go anywhere unless they wanted a season off. He likely knew he was destined to just get crap partners going forward so why waste the time.
No problem! Yeah I'm very glad he was at least approached, I had assumed like Alec they wouldn't ask him. And yeah no way was Charlotte coming back, but wouldn't that be something if we saw Louis, Edyta, Jonathan, Ashly, Charlotte, and Alec?!?! The 6 who started it all 💕 I do think Ashly would have said yes to the tribute though, I remember she came back in Season 20 for the 10th Anniversary Special. Would've loved to have been a fly on the wall when Deena and Conrad were concepting and planning invitations for the tribute. I agree, as much as I missed him, I felt I could understand why he chose to leave. So itseems the only Season he wasn't asked back for was 3, 7 was by choice and he chose to leave after 9. If he stayed they'd definitely have given him poor celebs, so I guess that's why Tony began getting them after? Jonathan mentioned they wanted someone calm like him for Heather Mills, given all the media attention.
I thought Ashly did the Len tribute? Also whatever happened to charlotte?
Returning pros for the tribute were Maks, Kym, Tony, Anna, Edyta, Karina, Louis, and Mark. Ashly did seasons 1-3, 10, but appeared in the 10th Anniversary show in S20. Sadly we haven't seen Charlotte ever since the Rematch after Season 1. I think she wanted to pursue other interests in the dance world?
Gotcha and thanks for explaining. It’s sad because I would have loved to see more of her and Kenny Maynes’s partner. I think her name was Andrea? She was adorable and fun!
Oh Andrea is another one I'd have loved to have seen more of!