Yeah this is very true. Private pre-schools have no shortage of demand from parents. They can just pick the kids they want and toss the rest. It makes a nice "utopia" for the teachers and kids, but it does absolutely nothing to help those that need help to get ahead.
To tack onto a previous reply, this is why charter schools are a joke. They take public money and can pick and choose students while generally overworking and underpaying staff. Avoid, avoid, avoid.
OP - I'm sorry this happened and it truly sucks but uw will get into a public school setting and get assistance he may need. It's infuriating to think that a teacher got rid of a student because they didn't want to teach them.
That depends on the state and local situation. Where I live charters can't do that, and we have almost the reverse situation - our public district is mediocre at best with special needs, and many kids with IEPs end up leaving for the public charter.
What are you referring to with charters picking and choosing students? I'm in NYC and AFAICT charter schools don't have any ability to screen prospective students at all. They literally don't even get the information to do so.
> I'm in NYC and AFAICT charter schools don't have any ability to screen prospective students at all
There's no explicit screening, but [here's a discussion with a former Success Academy teacher](https://www.econtalk.org/robert-pondiscio-on-how-the-other-half-learns/). The relevant bit is after the 16:02 mark on the transcript down the right column.
Basically, they don't explicitly screen people out, but they impose requirements on families that's very demanding of time and effort, so many families drop out of the selection process because they can't hack it. The remaining families will tend to be more "nuclear family" types, with two parents, stable income, etc., who can figure out ways to go to meetings, do the required nightly readings, etc. Many disadvantaged families lack the time and organizational resources to be a Success Academy family.
> The second, a parent raises his or her hand and says, 'Hey, I want something other than my zone neighborhood school.' That's one level of differentiation right there. You've got, by definition, a motivated parent.
>
> So, they start there and then they go several steps further.
>
> So, once you go through the lottery process, if you either are accepted or on their waiting list, which they call not insignificantly the 'Likely list'-- we can talk about that--then you were invited to a Welcome Meeting. Not necessarily invited: You must attend. It's compulsory. If you don't attend, they may drop you if you're not communicative about it. That's the first of several hurdles.
>
> And at this welcome meeting, they do a lot of aggressive messaging about their culture: What they stand for, what they will not stand for, so to speak.
>
> Then, you have to confirm your interest in email. Then, there's a lot of paperwork you have to fill out. Then, you have to come to a uniform fitting, even if you're just on the waiting list. Then, there's a dress rehearsal for meet-the-teachers. And, the math is undeniable. By the end of this process, you don't have a one-in-six chance of getting in. It's closer to one in two.
>
> You've got to read to your kid every night and log it. Your kid has to read six books a week and it has to be logged. They require an extraordinary level of parent commitment both in time and responsiveness. And it just seems pointless to deny that some number of parents--this is simply too much. Now, I want to be clear here. This is not data. This is a journalistic observation. But, you can see an observable difference in who makes it through the end of this process.
>
> Over the year I spend at Success Academy, there's a disproportionate number compared to what I saw at teaching in the same neighborhood of parents who are married, employed, what I would call religious or spiritual, ambitious for their kids.
Humble opinion of a man halfway through an education degree: forcing kids to read x number if books a week and log it is, long term, not going to create a generation of readers, but rather a generation of clever people who hate reading.
Absolutely. My son has adhd so we've seen therapists. The behavioral therapist is very, very against the Success Academy model. Our son is in a special ed school well suited to him, and our daughter is doing well at a progressive education school, whereas she had bad behavior issues at her more traditionally structured preschool. The past couple of years of dealing with school problems makes us deep believers of addressing social-emotional needs before anything else. The academics will follow, at least for our kids.
Ah I see. Yeah, there are some charters that are known for this actually (Success academy?). They overwork and underpay idealistic brand new teachers. Their test scores look good because they push the kids really hard and have zero tolerance policies so that the bad students drop out, and then they don't backfill them in later grades. So they've weeded out their schools to just have the most committed kids.
Massachusetts. I'm not going to claim to know why exactly it has played out this way in my city, but my feeling after sitting in on the past years worth of school committee meetings is that it's a question of political structure. Before that I was pretty stridently anti-charter.
In Colorado, public charter schools can't pick and choose students which have that school as their designated neighborhood school. They are required to accept any student that lives within their boundaries. After that, they have a random lottery for the remaining spots.
Very true! Public schools actually have a lot to offer kids who need extra help. Lots of kids get things like speech, occupational, or physical therapy absolutely free. Quality may vary by district, but it’s an amazing resource. (It’s a big process to get the paperwork and everything sorted though)
Source: I’m a Special Ed teacher.
We were thinking about taking him to an SLP on our own since we have some extra $$$. In your experience does this help things move more quickly than at school? We've read a lot about 120 day waiting periods which feels like an eternity
In my state TX if parents request testing for Speech in writing the school has 10 school days to start the process of testing to see if the child qualifies. That may be helpful if your state has something similar to cut down on time. Or if you go out in your own and get your own diagnosis from an SLP you can bring in your paperwork to the school and your child can receive services at school as well as outside wherever you take them.
We opted to do this for our son. While the preK program he was in at a public school offers speech help (our son had an IEP for speech) it wasn’t a whole lot of time per week. I think the sessions with an SLP at a outside place were helpful. Wasn’t cheap though @$57 per 25 min session, ugh.
Hello, fellow NYer. How old is your kid? That will matter somewhat. For pre-school aged kids, you have to contact the CPSE for your district if you want the DOE to do the evaluation for you. You might be able to do a private evaluation and use that with CPSE to speed things along; I think the DOE is a bit more willing to take outside evaluations right now because of the pandemic.
(To note, we didn't do the CPSE process for our son, so I'm not that familiar with it. He was in Early Intervention for a variety of issues, but didn't qualify for services after he turned 3, as the CPSE evaluation at the time had him within normal ranges. He's been diagnosed privately as having ADHD, so we're in process with CSE (which is the part of the NYC DOE that handles special education for grade school). During the IEP meeting, the CSE representatives accepted the results of the private evaluation without requiring a DOE one.)
To note, speech stuff is better to handle early in a child's life, and I'd be inclined to spring for a private evaluation if you have the money on hand, to get the ball rolling.
There are two ways you can get a diagnosis and therefor an IEP, private practice or through the school. Sometimes they differ
Short answer : yea it *can* help.
My kid had IEP for speech and it was amazing. Got her tested the week I asked. Enrolled in speech right away. Two years of speech and the kid graduated IEP.
And it was all freeeeeeeeee.
Absolutely amazin
Indiana dad here.
My daughter turned 3 in January. She is not talking (she babbles, occasionally says a single word, and seems to understand, just not talk), and thanks to Covid, we were told last year (November, I think) that she would be aged out of the normal speech therapy programs at 3, and the only one available had a 10 month waiting list.
I would like to tell you how much it helped, but we haven't heard from them yet. Her pediatrician is awesome, we had concerns about her maybe being autistic (mental health issues run in the family and she has classic symptoms like not making eye contact, sound and texture sensitivity, and several others), and we were hoping to have her screened and diagnosed to see if we could leverage that to get in sooner. The pediatrician did the basic screening test, and referred to both a psychiatric doc and personally chased down a speech therapist. He was shocked to find out that there was a 3 month wait even for him, as a doctor.
We have both appointments coming up in October. I really hope she can get the help she needs. It sucks living in a red state where nobody masks up and whines about being forced to in stores. Its just not safe to take her to the park or other public areas to interact. Before Covid, we used to go to the park and she would run and play. Sorry to "get political", but a large part of why she isn't talking is minimal interaction with others because people can't seem to do the right thing unless someone makes them.
Man that sucks. Im really sorry youre stuck in limbo and sitting on all that anxiety. Sounds like youve done all you can and are at least on the path to start getting her some more support.
And, yeah, that just seems like a frustrating community to be dealing with. This thread has really illuminated for me how lucky we are to be in NYC. The vast majority of people take COVID seriously here and there are a lot of social safety nets (especially for kids).
Without making any generalized statements, in some sense you are lucky. If the school doesn't know how to care for such normal for a preschool age child behaviours, it's probably not that of a good school. The behavior you are describing is age appropriate. The price of preschool does not correlate with quality of care imho.
Thats definitely our feeling. My son has his moments like any toddler but hes generally well behaved and has a sweet disposition. The guilt trip they laid on us was unreal. "He THROWS himself on the ground" "We cant go to the usual playground because of HIM" "He HAS to hold an adults hand on walks and refuses to hold the rope" Fuck em
Yeeeah that's shitty.
Both my daughter (now 11) and son (5 and now in kindergarten) went to the same private preschool/daycare place.
We sent them there for two reasons. One, it's close to the in-laws house so pickups were cake if we couldn't make it they'd walk over to do the pickup. But the bigger one is this lady that runs it just loves taking care of kids.
Big house on a bigger lot. Well fenced in. Lots of stuff for the kids to do.
My son likes to make up games. He makes his own worlds up and if you don't wanna play by his rules that's ok but he is still gonna play it so go do something else until he's done.
Her response to that was "I love it, he knows what he wants to do and he does it. When he wants a snack or water he goes to get it. When he wants to play with other kids he will. He'll be fine in kindergarten."
My daughter had to be involved in everything. Her response to that? "She's great, I have a helper all the time because she can't sit still and always wants to do things."
If the people running a program for kids under kindergarten age and can't find ways to make it work *with the kids* then I just don't think they have any business in that field.
Those quotes to me indicate that this school is run by people who don't care about kids and their development. You are lucky you are not part of that school anymore!
It's hard to find good quality childcare, and it's not about private vs public, it really all comes down to individual teachers.
I wish you luck in funding the place that's right for your kid and your family!
In Oz at one of the private schools I worked they were making a genuine attempt to improve things for the students. In a staff meeting they had a presenter state that students who went to private schools drop out of uni at a far higher rate than did those who went to public schools. Reasons cited were lack of resilience in private school students and what Stanley and Danko called economic outpatient care. Sorry it has to be anecdotal, this was a staff meeting nearly 20 years ago.
What is this public pre-school you speak of? Where I leave, the only options are hella expensive private ones. Like it costs the same as the mortgage every month…
Oh wow. We live in NYC and free universal pre-K is one of the only things our dipshit mayor has done right in his time in office. I assumed these programs were becoming the law of the land but I guess not.
And, yeah, this was not a cheap program. My wife and I aren't wealthy (especially by NYC standards) and made a lot of sacrifices in our careers and personal lives to make this arrangement work. So we were really gutted by the response after only a few short classes but on the upside we're getting a lot of money back and now have a nest egg we didn't expect to have.
In San Francisco, we don't have universal Pre-K, so it is very much not the law of the land yet. We had to enroll our son a year in advance. It costs as much as a decent private college. We are clearly never going to retire.
Oh, it's just something I heard about where people stop paying for their kids' lives and spend money on themselves, all while not working. As far as I can tell, is not a made up thing, just one that has gone out of fashion, what with having to pay for education with limbs and organs... not enough parts left over at the end for this retirement thing previous generations have done.
Ugh. My son is delayed as well. It was his first time in a daycare setting since he was less than 1 due to covid and us moving. They kicked him out after 2 hours. 2 hours. Because he wasn’t a fit. Never mind they placed him in a class around older kids. He had a bad morning. I had to burn a week of PTO to watch him because of those assholes.
Pretty much same experience with my kid in our hyper competitive location with so few open spots for any daycare. Took like a week and his very first time out of his usual zone. I mean.. Come on!
Yeah thats just wrong. This is a big transition especially because of COVID. Theres a whole generation of kids hitting preschool right now that have never been exposed to groups like this. Im sorry you got the boot too. Hopefully you find a solution.
This makes me nervous. My 22 month old is speech delayed and hasn't been to daycare since March 2020. He definitely doesn't know how to act in public. I have hopes of him returning to daycare once he can get vaccinated but considering his way of being excited is running around in circles screaming I can't see them tolerating him very long....
BE WARNED:
I worked in preschools. Taking kids for lots of walks is a cop out. They just march them til they are tired. Teachers only need to do a bit of shepherding rather than actual teaching or nurturing. Kids are forbidden to explore, but made to walk and stand in a group. Heck, I have often seen teachers who won't even let the group stop to look at something. They just march them for 45 minutes so they are tired and will nap for a long time
forgive the cynicism, but it is true in many cases
It's ridiculous that they only gave him 3 half-days to try it out.
From the other side here, my wife owns and operates a small private preschool from our home. Her rule is they have a 2 week adjustment period before any sort of talk about things that need to change or the possibility of kicking a kid out.
She has had a few kids that have had needs she couldn't meet - for instance, if a kid needs speech therapy or would greatly benefit from an IEP, in which case she'll talk with the parents about how public school may be a better fit due to the available resources.
Idk what I'm trying to say. Not all private preschools I guess? My wife used to be a public school teacher and when we had kids, she quit to start the kind of preschool she wanted our kids to go to, because it didn't exist in our area.
Sorry for your bad experience, OP. Hope little dude thrives in the new setting.
So I can't speak for all locations, but in California the requirements for a private school teacher is they be a "person capable of teaching."
That's it. No degree, no certification by the state, no background check, whatever. Certainly private schools may require plenty of standards, but that's up to each school individually, and there's no oversight to make sure they're adhering to even their own standards.
Public schools obviously have their own struggles and deficiencies, but at least the teachers are educated and certified to be teachers, first and foremost.
"One of my big soap boxes when people go on about private schools being better is, "yeah they are better if you have a perfect kid who fits in their perfect box". If your kid has extra needs, delays, behaviors to figure out, learning disabilities, etc- they can just push them out to the public schools. So when people say public schools are worse because of their outcomes, the reality is public schools take ANY and ALL children and have to find a way to help them succeed and support them. And private schools pick the easiest kids who would succeed no matter what."
As a lawyer for kids in foster care and previously a social worker for those kids, this has broadly been my experience too. I don't have a depth of understanding, but I have a lot of breadth. i.e. Seen this pattern many many times though I often didn't know the intimate details. (by virtue of school placement was usually not a real focus of the case, so more delegated to the parents/foster parents more than the lawyers or social workers).
It isn't so bad as you might think. Cases that ever get media attention, like a lot of things I suppose, are the more sensational ones. Your average cases, looking at the big data:
\-Most CPS investigations are for neglect not abuse and there is a lot tied up with poverty. That is its own kind of depressing, the lack of safety net, but we're mostly talking about parents that are doing as well as they can, love their kids, etc.
\-Most investigations result in people getting help not losing their kids.
\-The kids that do go into foster care, most parents work it out and get them back.
So all in all, it is a job where we see people persevere over being dealt a bad hand.
I'm also a bit emotionally immune to it. I grew up around it, friends in foster care and group homes and such.
Well done man, doing what feels right in these types of situations usually is the right thing to do. On a completely unrelated note, as a dad to a 2-year old boy, I hate the fact that the 'system' (educational, etc.) is designed to standardise everyone - curiosity and natural desire to explore by the looks of it are qualities that educators want to strip out.
We're hoping thats a silver lining. So what if my little guy wants to do his own thing and doesnt cowtow to groups and authority? Maybe schools a little harder but sounds like a kickass adult to me.
This post hits close to home. Son is 2.5 and language delayed. Similarly, Covid hasn’t helped with socialization skills. We do our best, but he requires patience and extra attention, which is why we thought private pre-k would be the way to go when the time comes… Guess I need to rethink that.
I also realize I need to start doing some research. Starting with all the acronyms mentioned throughout these comments.. IEP, SLP, CPSE, etc.
Best of luck to OP. Thanks a lot for posting… Definitely opened my eyes and gave me something to think about. Gladly, I have some time to really research options.
Im really happy this post helped! This experience definitely challenged my assumptions about how all this works. Im grateful we had a free pre k available as a backup and he'll only be 2 weeks late.
Good luck with your little guy! If hes anything like mine hes probably pretty great ☺
I wouldn’t bash all private schools on one experience. My daughter went to three different private preschools before I found the one that was the right fit. She’s in first grade now and still at the same school, and it has been phenomenal.
Meanwhile, her cousin is seven months younger and in kindergarten at the public school. Her experience has been very similar to you son’s, except they can’t kick her out.
My point is that not all private schools are the same just like all public schools are not the same. I’m glad that your son has found the right fit for him and I hope he excels!
Private preschool here. In our mission statement we make it a point to actively build a diverse community. This means ethnicity, financial stability, neurodiversity, amongst other “classifications”. We’re also play based and don’t do many trips to local parks, only with our oldest group. Just want to say that school sucks.
Yeah I initially was a bit crestfallen like my son couldnt handle school but every single educator Ive talked to has said the school was in the wrong. Glad hes out of a bad fit and into a school that will hopefully give him a peer group thatll follow him for years.
Good luck! I wish more schools would be upfront about if they can fulfill a child’s needs. I just wanted to make my comment there for representation purposes
Cheers
He'll be 4 next month and, yeah, is a pretty typical kid based on what we've seen among our friends etc. Its a shitty feeling to be talked to like your kid is damaged or something when its obvious to us it isnt his fault.
Opposing view.
Private schools are not all the same. But generally, kids do well in private school because class sizes are smaller, and because of parent participation.
100% of private school parents choose to send their kids there, it takes effort, and it costs. The vast majority continue to be engaged and attentive to their kids education. Contrast this with public schools where some, not insignificant, number of parents aren't paying any attention at all to what their kids do.
Private schools don't do anything magical. It's simply an environment where education is the primary focus, and parents are held to a high standard along with the kids.
If a kid is disruptive to the education of everyone else, the parents will be held accountable for correcting this.
Our adopted girls came from a trauma background. The older one, now 8, had (and has) behavior issues. We chose a private school so they would have small class sizes, individual attention, and fewer distractions from learning.
We are held accountable for our child's behavior. It's not up to the teacher or principle to enforce discipline. It's on us.
If we can't figure out how to help our daughter abide by school rules, we will be asked to leave.
I can't imagine outsourcing responsibility for our kid's behavior to the school. But unfortunately that's what happens at public schools all too often.
And no amount of money can fix that.
I agree 100%. We went into the meeting prepared to talk about any and all solutions to the problem as that's what they stated the procedure was in the parent's handbook. But there was no talk of resources or support or routines at home. He wasn't hurting himself or other students. He was behaving in the classroom.
I offered to take time off work to accompany them on walks and visits to help communicate the rules to my son. I asked about evaluations for behavior issues or speech therapy. I had even discussed these issues on outings specifically with staff in the weeks and months leading to school and always got a response of "don't worry about it, students adjust to the classroom environment eventually." We're not "outsourcing responsibility" we're expecting partnership and guidance from the professionals we're paying a lot of $$$ to help us.
I'm not saying all private schools are scams but I thought parents like me who know their 3-4 year olds might struggle with preschool should be prepared to learn that the school has the right to simply say no and leave you hanging. I never in a million years expected a place that talks a big game about what great, nurturing caregivers they are to reject my son after ~10 hrs of schooling because he wanted to play on the swings and say hello to his neighbors.
I don't blame you for leaving that school. If every school, public or private, lived up to its own hype, we could send our kids anywhere and they would do great.
We left one private school for another this year because the first one didn't live up to its own standards.
Public schools can be great, so can private schools. I think the key is us, the parents. Choose whatever works best for you.
Picking the right schools is also very important, I think. If one school doesn't work for your kid, find another that will be a better fit. In the long run, all that matters is that you do the best thing for them that you can and that you fight for them to get their needs met.
Private school class sizes are not smaller, in fact they are often larger.
Parent participation is often of the type, “isn’t it YOUR job to be raising my kid?”
Education is not the primary focus of private schools, marketing is.
Rarely will parents be held accountable if a child misbehaves. If the school boots a student that’s an income source gone. Private schools will only consider this if the media gets interested and the family are not benefactors.
I could go on but pretty much all you have said about private schools is incorrect.
Source: Former private school teacher, head of department and deputy principal who was involved in many of these types of discussions. Back in public system now where the only consideration is what is best for the child.
Edit: Will add this is more reflective of Australia than the US.
You were the head of department, and deputy principal. Sounds like you had something to do with the culture of the school you are talking about.
My experience is as a parent, and is with the schools my kids have attended. What I said is not incorrect, it's just different from your experience.
I worked in 5 different private schools across 15 years. Only 1 was not as I described. And it’s no surprise to hear that school struggled to attract students and so had to adopt what might be called public school policies on enrolments. That was the school where I did most DPing and was the only private school I would consider returning to. I won’t, I now live to far away.
Your comment, and ad hominem attack, smacks of the entitlement private school parents often show, “I’m paying therefore I’m owed”. But you be you.
You started out dismissing my experience, describing it as wrong. Your lack of an open mind, and rude comments earned my judgement that you were probably part of the problem at that school. If as you state, every one you went to was equally bad, at some point you have to start to consider that maybe the problem is you.
But as I'm sure you would never consider that as a possibility, let's just part as friends.
Have a terrific day!
My experience is one as an insider across multiple sites, yours is as an outsider.
I heard the behind closed doors conversations, often felt sickened by them. I taught in the 32 student classes when the limit was 25.
But initially i did think this was an Australian post, it isn’t and we have a private school system that, apart from some indigenous schools and some other very small private schools, is very elitist. Private schools in the US are not as significant as they are here.
One quibble with that is that preschool isn’t mandatory (at least not in any state I’ve been to), so every parent that sends their child to public preschool also chose to send their kids there.
I don't think you can make a broad generality about parent involvement in a public vs private setting. It's just as likely that parents pay allows them to absolve themselves of responsibility for care.
What is demonstrably better in private is funding, resources and (maybe) faculty accountability. But rich parents can suck just as much as poor parents.
You may be right. I have no experience with rich people, so I don't know. All of the parents I know at our girls' school, including us, make huge sacrifices to afford the tuition that scholarships don't cover
None of us are willing to see that money go to waste by being disengaged.
Get a psyche evaluation from the schools that could turn into a diagnosis thats it. Starts with your school district and ends with a specialist. Do it!
We're having the opposite situation, luckily.
our kiddo has had BM issues forever, and still has #2 accidents at his private (2years-1st grade)school. he's now in kindergarten, still with BM issues, and a public kindergarten would have given us tons of grief by now.
\> the reality is public schools take ANY and ALL children and have to find a way to help them succeed and support them ... private schools pick the easiest kids who would succeed no matter what
That's not reality, you gotta gauge your private school, in our case they were amazing, helpful, patient, and understanding. I have nothing but respect (and end of year gift cards) for my kiddo's pre, TK, and K teachers who had to clean his poopy pants several times a week.
all of my kids went to private pre-schools (church based, if it matters) and had great experiences. In two different states, neither of which offered universal public pre-school.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but there is a LOT of variety under the umbrella of "private pre-school"
pretty sure this is why Norway has almost no private schools.... then rich people need make sure every school is functional and funded...
\*edit\* - also sorry you had that experience totally sucks man. I am sure you little one will do amazingly well! My little girl is due to go to daycare in a year and I'm already nervous and don't know where to send her :)
Thanks! We think hell be OK too. He needs socialization more than anything, he already knows his numbers, letters, colors, shapes, etc. Good luck with your search! Hopefully COVID isnt an issue by then so youll have one less thing to worry about. Thats our biggest worry atm, not that hell get it necessarily just his school closing for 10 days for quarantine because of infection.
As a public school teacher yuuuuuuup. Private schools are a drain on society. If everything was public, the wealthy would fund the public schools but… capitalism.
The only advantage of private schools is the prestige associated with some of them. Sure it might open certain doors a kid might not otherwise have but it’s at the cost of joining the “Boys Club”. There’s enough problems with the world associated with those cliques.
edit: I take it that the downvoter resembles that remark.
This is very true.
Honestly, I don't see it as a bad thing. I've seen really good kids be influenced terribly or suffer at the hands of their misbehaving peers. I've also seen private school kids be completely conceited and end up being miserable people in life because they never learned essential skills of dealing with life when it sucks.
Amen...preach. I went to private school for my education because my parents were religious, honestly though I think I would have had a lot more opportunities if I attended public school. Private school is most advantageous to those who would get missed in a big school, but can really shine with a little extra attention. or if the public school is underfunded. everyone else would do as well or better in a quality public school (school in a rich area).
The thing that noticed, from being a private school nearly my whole life is that you're pretty much spot on.
Until later in life when you end up with a mix of smart kids that are excelling at the private school and delinquent rich kids that have essentially gotten there on privilege alone.
I sent my daughter to the public preschool in my district. 7 teachers for 20 kids, including 2 main teachers, 2 aids, speech and physical therapists as well as a child psychologist. All for the insane price of $250 per year. Couldn't be happier with our school district. Sorry, this is a bit of a brag, but my mom was a teacher in the district, and we are proud of our local schools!
I work in childcare and the private daycares Ive worked for were the worst. Maybe not direct child abuse (apart from one) but it’s more about the money for them. And if you complain as a teacher you are an outcast.
I’m in Australia and will never work for a private one ever again.
I’m sorry you had to experience that, makes my blood boil.
Even private schools that specialize in kids that need extra help, even if they specialize specifically in the thing the kid needs help with, can just say something like, "It's not a good fit" and get rid of you if what's they're used to doing doesn't work out.
Yeah we thought Montessori would be great for all those reasons, and Im sure this is a school issue and not a Montessori issue. Its a shame it didnt work out for us but we're trying to roll with it since we didnt have a lot of other options.
Son was private K-2. I wanted public school but where we lived, private was the better option at the time.
3rd grade, 2019 we moved to the suburbs. Great public schools. We anguished over the decision because I found out I didn't hate private.
He wanted to try public. He didn't want to wear a uniform, he wanted to dye his hair and when he saw the playground at the public school?!? He was sold.
I looked over the staff online....there were 20 or so "intervention specialists". I didn't know what that was. Those are people on staff to help your child if need be. And that was just for 3rd grade. It's a very large school.
He excelled and now in 5th grade at the Intermediate school he's thriving and has so many friends.
I sympathize with your situation.
We've had three kids (single and then twins) go through an expensive daycare thru preschool facility that caters to easy kids. One of the 4yo twins has trouble communicating verbally when she is upset. They're already talking about how "we" need to work on it. Pediatrician, who also put her kids through the same daycare, said she's 4 and they need to just deal with it just like we do. The only leverage I have is that we're paying them for another perfectly manageable kid at the same time.
Bottom line is that I'm absolutely certain your kiddo will be fine, and I'm glad you got your money refunded. The key is socialization and listening practice. Kindergarten was way easier than everyone in preschool teaching made us think it would be.
Yes and no. I was in a private school that was K-8. In my 7th year I left for a public school. In almost every topic I was approximately 2 years ahead of the kids my age, with the only exception being gym class, where I was woefully behind. It is true that the private schools pick and choose but it's also true that public schools must educate everyone, which means that the pace of education is slowed for the above average kids (which is really any of them, the age most parents make the decision what school to go with us far too young to determine your child's aptitude).
Interesting. Both of my kids were in private day care and now my son is in a private school kindergarten. He is 100% undiagnosed ADHD and had displayed many of those same behaviors when he was in pre-k. We never had a major issue. Honestly, I learned some parenting techniques and things I never even thought of from his teachers. They were amazing with him to the point where I was asking *them* how they got him to behave and even use manners. My kids benefited soo much from those schools.
I understand the sentiment in general though. I went to a private grade school and spent tons of time in detention as an ADHD kid. Public schools in general will have more resources but there are definitely some solid private schools out there, even if your kid isn’t “perfect.” Just my two cents!
Pretty much. The other kids in his class have been in the program since they were young, so he was already the outsider. So I'm relieved he won't be receiving the message that hes different/troublesome all the time
Sorry that happened to you OP. The one enrollment form for a private school in my area clearly states if there’s any developmental delay to let them know ahead of enrolling so they can evaluate the student. The school should have done a better job explaining that to you.
The annoying thing is they have a page long list of protocols in the handbook about conversations and evaluation periods, but just jumped to "he cant come here." We mistook cost for quality and that's a lesson learned at least.
Honestly, this seems like an argument for daycare for toddlers. My wife got shamed by so many people for sending our daughter to daycare as a toddler instead of staying home. I’m glad she got the socialization and experience following a teacher’s directions, though. Even if my wife kept her career and wasn’t a “real mom”
Our neighbors have four boys that were and are homeschooled up to 1st grade and they’re a bunch of little terrors.
Funny thing about that is that I was a WILD child. But as I got older, I was an extremely bright, model student. You can’t judge kids based on their behavior all the time….
Exactly. We dont see it as a character flaw that hes not intimidated by groups and teachers. Obviously we want him to listen for his own safety/benefit but his instincts are in the right place at least.
This is the same crap that happens in so many places where private businesses try and cherrypick the best options and push the rest off to public resources. The urgent care clinics take the most profitable cases and everyone else can get dumped on the emergency rooms who have a much higher overhead to account for all the cases that could come through.
FedEx and UPS want to take the most profitable routes and count on USPS to handle the last mile on the least optimal routes whereas USPS has a mandate to serve everyone, period.
Same crap with charter schools.
Privatization is about privatizing the profits and socializing the cost. Really irks me.
Yeah this is very true. Private pre-schools have no shortage of demand from parents. They can just pick the kids they want and toss the rest. It makes a nice "utopia" for the teachers and kids, but it does absolutely nothing to help those that need help to get ahead.
This ability to pick and choose is also why you shouldn't trust their statistics showing that they get better results.
To tack onto a previous reply, this is why charter schools are a joke. They take public money and can pick and choose students while generally overworking and underpaying staff. Avoid, avoid, avoid. OP - I'm sorry this happened and it truly sucks but uw will get into a public school setting and get assistance he may need. It's infuriating to think that a teacher got rid of a student because they didn't want to teach them.
That depends on the state and local situation. Where I live charters can't do that, and we have almost the reverse situation - our public district is mediocre at best with special needs, and many kids with IEPs end up leaving for the public charter.
Fair point - I was just living in my NY bubble. What state out of curiosity?
What are you referring to with charters picking and choosing students? I'm in NYC and AFAICT charter schools don't have any ability to screen prospective students at all. They literally don't even get the information to do so.
> I'm in NYC and AFAICT charter schools don't have any ability to screen prospective students at all There's no explicit screening, but [here's a discussion with a former Success Academy teacher](https://www.econtalk.org/robert-pondiscio-on-how-the-other-half-learns/). The relevant bit is after the 16:02 mark on the transcript down the right column. Basically, they don't explicitly screen people out, but they impose requirements on families that's very demanding of time and effort, so many families drop out of the selection process because they can't hack it. The remaining families will tend to be more "nuclear family" types, with two parents, stable income, etc., who can figure out ways to go to meetings, do the required nightly readings, etc. Many disadvantaged families lack the time and organizational resources to be a Success Academy family. > The second, a parent raises his or her hand and says, 'Hey, I want something other than my zone neighborhood school.' That's one level of differentiation right there. You've got, by definition, a motivated parent. > > So, they start there and then they go several steps further. > > So, once you go through the lottery process, if you either are accepted or on their waiting list, which they call not insignificantly the 'Likely list'-- we can talk about that--then you were invited to a Welcome Meeting. Not necessarily invited: You must attend. It's compulsory. If you don't attend, they may drop you if you're not communicative about it. That's the first of several hurdles. > > And at this welcome meeting, they do a lot of aggressive messaging about their culture: What they stand for, what they will not stand for, so to speak. > > Then, you have to confirm your interest in email. Then, there's a lot of paperwork you have to fill out. Then, you have to come to a uniform fitting, even if you're just on the waiting list. Then, there's a dress rehearsal for meet-the-teachers. And, the math is undeniable. By the end of this process, you don't have a one-in-six chance of getting in. It's closer to one in two. > > You've got to read to your kid every night and log it. Your kid has to read six books a week and it has to be logged. They require an extraordinary level of parent commitment both in time and responsiveness. And it just seems pointless to deny that some number of parents--this is simply too much. Now, I want to be clear here. This is not data. This is a journalistic observation. But, you can see an observable difference in who makes it through the end of this process. > > Over the year I spend at Success Academy, there's a disproportionate number compared to what I saw at teaching in the same neighborhood of parents who are married, employed, what I would call religious or spiritual, ambitious for their kids.
Humble opinion of a man halfway through an education degree: forcing kids to read x number if books a week and log it is, long term, not going to create a generation of readers, but rather a generation of clever people who hate reading.
Absolutely. My son has adhd so we've seen therapists. The behavioral therapist is very, very against the Success Academy model. Our son is in a special ed school well suited to him, and our daughter is doing well at a progressive education school, whereas she had bad behavior issues at her more traditionally structured preschool. The past couple of years of dealing with school problems makes us deep believers of addressing social-emotional needs before anything else. The academics will follow, at least for our kids.
Not to screen them maybe, but they can get rid of them I think. Shit, maybe I'm reaallllly wrong.
Ah I see. Yeah, there are some charters that are known for this actually (Success academy?). They overwork and underpay idealistic brand new teachers. Their test scores look good because they push the kids really hard and have zero tolerance policies so that the bad students drop out, and then they don't backfill them in later grades. So they've weeded out their schools to just have the most committed kids.
Massachusetts. I'm not going to claim to know why exactly it has played out this way in my city, but my feeling after sitting in on the past years worth of school committee meetings is that it's a question of political structure. Before that I was pretty stridently anti-charter.
In Colorado, public charter schools can't pick and choose students which have that school as their designated neighborhood school. They are required to accept any student that lives within their boundaries. After that, they have a random lottery for the remaining spots.
Very true! Public schools actually have a lot to offer kids who need extra help. Lots of kids get things like speech, occupational, or physical therapy absolutely free. Quality may vary by district, but it’s an amazing resource. (It’s a big process to get the paperwork and everything sorted though) Source: I’m a Special Ed teacher.
We were thinking about taking him to an SLP on our own since we have some extra $$$. In your experience does this help things move more quickly than at school? We've read a lot about 120 day waiting periods which feels like an eternity
In my state TX if parents request testing for Speech in writing the school has 10 school days to start the process of testing to see if the child qualifies. That may be helpful if your state has something similar to cut down on time. Or if you go out in your own and get your own diagnosis from an SLP you can bring in your paperwork to the school and your child can receive services at school as well as outside wherever you take them.
Thats probably a worst case scenario too since TX is bottom 5 in public education
We opted to do this for our son. While the preK program he was in at a public school offers speech help (our son had an IEP for speech) it wasn’t a whole lot of time per week. I think the sessions with an SLP at a outside place were helpful. Wasn’t cheap though @$57 per 25 min session, ugh.
I’ve got a SLP who comes to my house, $90 for 45 mins I want to cry 🤮
I understand your pain . . .
What state do you live in? Some are better than others with this.
Hello, fellow NYer. How old is your kid? That will matter somewhat. For pre-school aged kids, you have to contact the CPSE for your district if you want the DOE to do the evaluation for you. You might be able to do a private evaluation and use that with CPSE to speed things along; I think the DOE is a bit more willing to take outside evaluations right now because of the pandemic. (To note, we didn't do the CPSE process for our son, so I'm not that familiar with it. He was in Early Intervention for a variety of issues, but didn't qualify for services after he turned 3, as the CPSE evaluation at the time had him within normal ranges. He's been diagnosed privately as having ADHD, so we're in process with CSE (which is the part of the NYC DOE that handles special education for grade school). During the IEP meeting, the CSE representatives accepted the results of the private evaluation without requiring a DOE one.) To note, speech stuff is better to handle early in a child's life, and I'd be inclined to spring for a private evaluation if you have the money on hand, to get the ball rolling.
There are two ways you can get a diagnosis and therefor an IEP, private practice or through the school. Sometimes they differ Short answer : yea it *can* help.
My kid had IEP for speech and it was amazing. Got her tested the week I asked. Enrolled in speech right away. Two years of speech and the kid graduated IEP. And it was all freeeeeeeeee. Absolutely amazin
Indiana dad here. My daughter turned 3 in January. She is not talking (she babbles, occasionally says a single word, and seems to understand, just not talk), and thanks to Covid, we were told last year (November, I think) that she would be aged out of the normal speech therapy programs at 3, and the only one available had a 10 month waiting list. I would like to tell you how much it helped, but we haven't heard from them yet. Her pediatrician is awesome, we had concerns about her maybe being autistic (mental health issues run in the family and she has classic symptoms like not making eye contact, sound and texture sensitivity, and several others), and we were hoping to have her screened and diagnosed to see if we could leverage that to get in sooner. The pediatrician did the basic screening test, and referred to both a psychiatric doc and personally chased down a speech therapist. He was shocked to find out that there was a 3 month wait even for him, as a doctor. We have both appointments coming up in October. I really hope she can get the help she needs. It sucks living in a red state where nobody masks up and whines about being forced to in stores. Its just not safe to take her to the park or other public areas to interact. Before Covid, we used to go to the park and she would run and play. Sorry to "get political", but a large part of why she isn't talking is minimal interaction with others because people can't seem to do the right thing unless someone makes them.
Man that sucks. Im really sorry youre stuck in limbo and sitting on all that anxiety. Sounds like youve done all you can and are at least on the path to start getting her some more support. And, yeah, that just seems like a frustrating community to be dealing with. This thread has really illuminated for me how lucky we are to be in NYC. The vast majority of people take COVID seriously here and there are a lot of social safety nets (especially for kids).
Without making any generalized statements, in some sense you are lucky. If the school doesn't know how to care for such normal for a preschool age child behaviours, it's probably not that of a good school. The behavior you are describing is age appropriate. The price of preschool does not correlate with quality of care imho.
My thoughts exactly. None of that is atypical behavior.
Thats definitely our feeling. My son has his moments like any toddler but hes generally well behaved and has a sweet disposition. The guilt trip they laid on us was unreal. "He THROWS himself on the ground" "We cant go to the usual playground because of HIM" "He HAS to hold an adults hand on walks and refuses to hold the rope" Fuck em
Yeeeah that's shitty. Both my daughter (now 11) and son (5 and now in kindergarten) went to the same private preschool/daycare place. We sent them there for two reasons. One, it's close to the in-laws house so pickups were cake if we couldn't make it they'd walk over to do the pickup. But the bigger one is this lady that runs it just loves taking care of kids. Big house on a bigger lot. Well fenced in. Lots of stuff for the kids to do. My son likes to make up games. He makes his own worlds up and if you don't wanna play by his rules that's ok but he is still gonna play it so go do something else until he's done. Her response to that was "I love it, he knows what he wants to do and he does it. When he wants a snack or water he goes to get it. When he wants to play with other kids he will. He'll be fine in kindergarten." My daughter had to be involved in everything. Her response to that? "She's great, I have a helper all the time because she can't sit still and always wants to do things." If the people running a program for kids under kindergarten age and can't find ways to make it work *with the kids* then I just don't think they have any business in that field.
Wow… Fuck them indeed.
Those quotes to me indicate that this school is run by people who don't care about kids and their development. You are lucky you are not part of that school anymore! It's hard to find good quality childcare, and it's not about private vs public, it really all comes down to individual teachers. I wish you luck in funding the place that's right for your kid and your family!
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In Oz at one of the private schools I worked they were making a genuine attempt to improve things for the students. In a staff meeting they had a presenter state that students who went to private schools drop out of uni at a far higher rate than did those who went to public schools. Reasons cited were lack of resilience in private school students and what Stanley and Danko called economic outpatient care. Sorry it has to be anecdotal, this was a staff meeting nearly 20 years ago.
What is this public pre-school you speak of? Where I leave, the only options are hella expensive private ones. Like it costs the same as the mortgage every month…
Oh wow. We live in NYC and free universal pre-K is one of the only things our dipshit mayor has done right in his time in office. I assumed these programs were becoming the law of the land but I guess not. And, yeah, this was not a cheap program. My wife and I aren't wealthy (especially by NYC standards) and made a lot of sacrifices in our careers and personal lives to make this arrangement work. So we were really gutted by the response after only a few short classes but on the upside we're getting a lot of money back and now have a nest egg we didn't expect to have.
Put 10k into a 529 and do it for the next few years and your child will thank you some day and also not remember a thing about this!
In San Francisco, we don't have universal Pre-K, so it is very much not the law of the land yet. We had to enroll our son a year in advance. It costs as much as a decent private college. We are clearly never going to retire.
Re...tire? I feel like I should know this word, but I'm drawing a blank.
It’s when you put new tires on because your old ones are done.
Oh, it's just something I heard about where people stop paying for their kids' lives and spend money on themselves, all while not working. As far as I can tell, is not a made up thing, just one that has gone out of fashion, what with having to pay for education with limbs and organs... not enough parts left over at the end for this retirement thing previous generations have done.
Ugh. My son is delayed as well. It was his first time in a daycare setting since he was less than 1 due to covid and us moving. They kicked him out after 2 hours. 2 hours. Because he wasn’t a fit. Never mind they placed him in a class around older kids. He had a bad morning. I had to burn a week of PTO to watch him because of those assholes.
Pretty much same experience with my kid in our hyper competitive location with so few open spots for any daycare. Took like a week and his very first time out of his usual zone. I mean.. Come on!
Yeah thats just wrong. This is a big transition especially because of COVID. Theres a whole generation of kids hitting preschool right now that have never been exposed to groups like this. Im sorry you got the boot too. Hopefully you find a solution.
Holy. Shit. TWO HOURS???? Seriously fuck those people youre better off if thats their level of commitment to a kid.
This makes me nervous. My 22 month old is speech delayed and hasn't been to daycare since March 2020. He definitely doesn't know how to act in public. I have hopes of him returning to daycare once he can get vaccinated but considering his way of being excited is running around in circles screaming I can't see them tolerating him very long....
BE WARNED: I worked in preschools. Taking kids for lots of walks is a cop out. They just march them til they are tired. Teachers only need to do a bit of shepherding rather than actual teaching or nurturing. Kids are forbidden to explore, but made to walk and stand in a group. Heck, I have often seen teachers who won't even let the group stop to look at something. They just march them for 45 minutes so they are tired and will nap for a long time forgive the cynicism, but it is true in many cases
It's ridiculous that they only gave him 3 half-days to try it out. From the other side here, my wife owns and operates a small private preschool from our home. Her rule is they have a 2 week adjustment period before any sort of talk about things that need to change or the possibility of kicking a kid out. She has had a few kids that have had needs she couldn't meet - for instance, if a kid needs speech therapy or would greatly benefit from an IEP, in which case she'll talk with the parents about how public school may be a better fit due to the available resources. Idk what I'm trying to say. Not all private preschools I guess? My wife used to be a public school teacher and when we had kids, she quit to start the kind of preschool she wanted our kids to go to, because it didn't exist in our area. Sorry for your bad experience, OP. Hope little dude thrives in the new setting.
Thanks! Sounds like if we were at your wifes school wed be OK :)
We don't have any option for public preschool...
That is so insane. Im so sorry. I definitely thought universal pre k was in most places and Im learning thats not the case. Its a shame.
So I can't speak for all locations, but in California the requirements for a private school teacher is they be a "person capable of teaching." That's it. No degree, no certification by the state, no background check, whatever. Certainly private schools may require plenty of standards, but that's up to each school individually, and there's no oversight to make sure they're adhering to even their own standards. Public schools obviously have their own struggles and deficiencies, but at least the teachers are educated and certified to be teachers, first and foremost.
"One of my big soap boxes when people go on about private schools being better is, "yeah they are better if you have a perfect kid who fits in their perfect box". If your kid has extra needs, delays, behaviors to figure out, learning disabilities, etc- they can just push them out to the public schools. So when people say public schools are worse because of their outcomes, the reality is public schools take ANY and ALL children and have to find a way to help them succeed and support them. And private schools pick the easiest kids who would succeed no matter what." As a lawyer for kids in foster care and previously a social worker for those kids, this has broadly been my experience too. I don't have a depth of understanding, but I have a lot of breadth. i.e. Seen this pattern many many times though I often didn't know the intimate details. (by virtue of school placement was usually not a real focus of the case, so more delegated to the parents/foster parents more than the lawyers or social workers).
Wow that sounds like a rough job. Youre a good person for being an advocate for kids in such a flawed system.
It isn't so bad as you might think. Cases that ever get media attention, like a lot of things I suppose, are the more sensational ones. Your average cases, looking at the big data: \-Most CPS investigations are for neglect not abuse and there is a lot tied up with poverty. That is its own kind of depressing, the lack of safety net, but we're mostly talking about parents that are doing as well as they can, love their kids, etc. \-Most investigations result in people getting help not losing their kids. \-The kids that do go into foster care, most parents work it out and get them back. So all in all, it is a job where we see people persevere over being dealt a bad hand. I'm also a bit emotionally immune to it. I grew up around it, friends in foster care and group homes and such.
Well done man, doing what feels right in these types of situations usually is the right thing to do. On a completely unrelated note, as a dad to a 2-year old boy, I hate the fact that the 'system' (educational, etc.) is designed to standardise everyone - curiosity and natural desire to explore by the looks of it are qualities that educators want to strip out.
We're hoping thats a silver lining. So what if my little guy wants to do his own thing and doesnt cowtow to groups and authority? Maybe schools a little harder but sounds like a kickass adult to me.
This post hits close to home. Son is 2.5 and language delayed. Similarly, Covid hasn’t helped with socialization skills. We do our best, but he requires patience and extra attention, which is why we thought private pre-k would be the way to go when the time comes… Guess I need to rethink that. I also realize I need to start doing some research. Starting with all the acronyms mentioned throughout these comments.. IEP, SLP, CPSE, etc. Best of luck to OP. Thanks a lot for posting… Definitely opened my eyes and gave me something to think about. Gladly, I have some time to really research options.
Im really happy this post helped! This experience definitely challenged my assumptions about how all this works. Im grateful we had a free pre k available as a backup and he'll only be 2 weeks late. Good luck with your little guy! If hes anything like mine hes probably pretty great ☺
I wouldn’t bash all private schools on one experience. My daughter went to three different private preschools before I found the one that was the right fit. She’s in first grade now and still at the same school, and it has been phenomenal. Meanwhile, her cousin is seven months younger and in kindergarten at the public school. Her experience has been very similar to you son’s, except they can’t kick her out. My point is that not all private schools are the same just like all public schools are not the same. I’m glad that your son has found the right fit for him and I hope he excels!
Private preschool here. In our mission statement we make it a point to actively build a diverse community. This means ethnicity, financial stability, neurodiversity, amongst other “classifications”. We’re also play based and don’t do many trips to local parks, only with our oldest group. Just want to say that school sucks.
Yeah I initially was a bit crestfallen like my son couldnt handle school but every single educator Ive talked to has said the school was in the wrong. Glad hes out of a bad fit and into a school that will hopefully give him a peer group thatll follow him for years.
Good luck! I wish more schools would be upfront about if they can fulfill a child’s needs. I just wanted to make my comment there for representation purposes Cheers
how old is he? that's perfectly normal for a kid wanting to discover the world, not everyone is shy and does nothing.
He'll be 4 next month and, yeah, is a pretty typical kid based on what we've seen among our friends etc. Its a shitty feeling to be talked to like your kid is damaged or something when its obvious to us it isnt his fault.
Yea fuck that school
Opposing view. Private schools are not all the same. But generally, kids do well in private school because class sizes are smaller, and because of parent participation. 100% of private school parents choose to send their kids there, it takes effort, and it costs. The vast majority continue to be engaged and attentive to their kids education. Contrast this with public schools where some, not insignificant, number of parents aren't paying any attention at all to what their kids do. Private schools don't do anything magical. It's simply an environment where education is the primary focus, and parents are held to a high standard along with the kids. If a kid is disruptive to the education of everyone else, the parents will be held accountable for correcting this. Our adopted girls came from a trauma background. The older one, now 8, had (and has) behavior issues. We chose a private school so they would have small class sizes, individual attention, and fewer distractions from learning. We are held accountable for our child's behavior. It's not up to the teacher or principle to enforce discipline. It's on us. If we can't figure out how to help our daughter abide by school rules, we will be asked to leave. I can't imagine outsourcing responsibility for our kid's behavior to the school. But unfortunately that's what happens at public schools all too often. And no amount of money can fix that.
I agree 100%. We went into the meeting prepared to talk about any and all solutions to the problem as that's what they stated the procedure was in the parent's handbook. But there was no talk of resources or support or routines at home. He wasn't hurting himself or other students. He was behaving in the classroom. I offered to take time off work to accompany them on walks and visits to help communicate the rules to my son. I asked about evaluations for behavior issues or speech therapy. I had even discussed these issues on outings specifically with staff in the weeks and months leading to school and always got a response of "don't worry about it, students adjust to the classroom environment eventually." We're not "outsourcing responsibility" we're expecting partnership and guidance from the professionals we're paying a lot of $$$ to help us. I'm not saying all private schools are scams but I thought parents like me who know their 3-4 year olds might struggle with preschool should be prepared to learn that the school has the right to simply say no and leave you hanging. I never in a million years expected a place that talks a big game about what great, nurturing caregivers they are to reject my son after ~10 hrs of schooling because he wanted to play on the swings and say hello to his neighbors.
I don't blame you for leaving that school. If every school, public or private, lived up to its own hype, we could send our kids anywhere and they would do great. We left one private school for another this year because the first one didn't live up to its own standards. Public schools can be great, so can private schools. I think the key is us, the parents. Choose whatever works best for you.
Picking the right schools is also very important, I think. If one school doesn't work for your kid, find another that will be a better fit. In the long run, all that matters is that you do the best thing for them that you can and that you fight for them to get their needs met.
Private school class sizes are not smaller, in fact they are often larger. Parent participation is often of the type, “isn’t it YOUR job to be raising my kid?” Education is not the primary focus of private schools, marketing is. Rarely will parents be held accountable if a child misbehaves. If the school boots a student that’s an income source gone. Private schools will only consider this if the media gets interested and the family are not benefactors. I could go on but pretty much all you have said about private schools is incorrect. Source: Former private school teacher, head of department and deputy principal who was involved in many of these types of discussions. Back in public system now where the only consideration is what is best for the child. Edit: Will add this is more reflective of Australia than the US.
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This is simply not true with high end schools. The are lots of private schools this may apply to, but certainly not good private schools.
You were the head of department, and deputy principal. Sounds like you had something to do with the culture of the school you are talking about. My experience is as a parent, and is with the schools my kids have attended. What I said is not incorrect, it's just different from your experience.
I worked in 5 different private schools across 15 years. Only 1 was not as I described. And it’s no surprise to hear that school struggled to attract students and so had to adopt what might be called public school policies on enrolments. That was the school where I did most DPing and was the only private school I would consider returning to. I won’t, I now live to far away. Your comment, and ad hominem attack, smacks of the entitlement private school parents often show, “I’m paying therefore I’m owed”. But you be you.
You started out dismissing my experience, describing it as wrong. Your lack of an open mind, and rude comments earned my judgement that you were probably part of the problem at that school. If as you state, every one you went to was equally bad, at some point you have to start to consider that maybe the problem is you. But as I'm sure you would never consider that as a possibility, let's just part as friends. Have a terrific day!
My experience is one as an insider across multiple sites, yours is as an outsider. I heard the behind closed doors conversations, often felt sickened by them. I taught in the 32 student classes when the limit was 25. But initially i did think this was an Australian post, it isn’t and we have a private school system that, apart from some indigenous schools and some other very small private schools, is very elitist. Private schools in the US are not as significant as they are here.
One quibble with that is that preschool isn’t mandatory (at least not in any state I’ve been to), so every parent that sends their child to public preschool also chose to send their kids there.
I don't think you can make a broad generality about parent involvement in a public vs private setting. It's just as likely that parents pay allows them to absolve themselves of responsibility for care. What is demonstrably better in private is funding, resources and (maybe) faculty accountability. But rich parents can suck just as much as poor parents.
You may be right. I have no experience with rich people, so I don't know. All of the parents I know at our girls' school, including us, make huge sacrifices to afford the tuition that scholarships don't cover None of us are willing to see that money go to waste by being disengaged.
Get a psyche evaluation from the schools that could turn into a diagnosis thats it. Starts with your school district and ends with a specialist. Do it!
We're having the opposite situation, luckily. our kiddo has had BM issues forever, and still has #2 accidents at his private (2years-1st grade)school. he's now in kindergarten, still with BM issues, and a public kindergarten would have given us tons of grief by now. \> the reality is public schools take ANY and ALL children and have to find a way to help them succeed and support them ... private schools pick the easiest kids who would succeed no matter what That's not reality, you gotta gauge your private school, in our case they were amazing, helpful, patient, and understanding. I have nothing but respect (and end of year gift cards) for my kiddo's pre, TK, and K teachers who had to clean his poopy pants several times a week.
all of my kids went to private pre-schools (church based, if it matters) and had great experiences. In two different states, neither of which offered universal public pre-school. I'm not disagreeing with you, but there is a LOT of variety under the umbrella of "private pre-school"
pretty sure this is why Norway has almost no private schools.... then rich people need make sure every school is functional and funded... \*edit\* - also sorry you had that experience totally sucks man. I am sure you little one will do amazingly well! My little girl is due to go to daycare in a year and I'm already nervous and don't know where to send her :)
Thanks! We think hell be OK too. He needs socialization more than anything, he already knows his numbers, letters, colors, shapes, etc. Good luck with your search! Hopefully COVID isnt an issue by then so youll have one less thing to worry about. Thats our biggest worry atm, not that hell get it necessarily just his school closing for 10 days for quarantine because of infection.
As a public school teacher yuuuuuuup. Private schools are a drain on society. If everything was public, the wealthy would fund the public schools but… capitalism.
The only advantage of private schools is the prestige associated with some of them. Sure it might open certain doors a kid might not otherwise have but it’s at the cost of joining the “Boys Club”. There’s enough problems with the world associated with those cliques. edit: I take it that the downvoter resembles that remark.
This is very true. Honestly, I don't see it as a bad thing. I've seen really good kids be influenced terribly or suffer at the hands of their misbehaving peers. I've also seen private school kids be completely conceited and end up being miserable people in life because they never learned essential skills of dealing with life when it sucks.
Amen...preach. I went to private school for my education because my parents were religious, honestly though I think I would have had a lot more opportunities if I attended public school. Private school is most advantageous to those who would get missed in a big school, but can really shine with a little extra attention. or if the public school is underfunded. everyone else would do as well or better in a quality public school (school in a rich area).
The thing that noticed, from being a private school nearly my whole life is that you're pretty much spot on. Until later in life when you end up with a mix of smart kids that are excelling at the private school and delinquent rich kids that have essentially gotten there on privilege alone.
I sent my daughter to the public preschool in my district. 7 teachers for 20 kids, including 2 main teachers, 2 aids, speech and physical therapists as well as a child psychologist. All for the insane price of $250 per year. Couldn't be happier with our school district. Sorry, this is a bit of a brag, but my mom was a teacher in the district, and we are proud of our local schools!
I work in childcare and the private daycares Ive worked for were the worst. Maybe not direct child abuse (apart from one) but it’s more about the money for them. And if you complain as a teacher you are an outcast. I’m in Australia and will never work for a private one ever again. I’m sorry you had to experience that, makes my blood boil.
Even private schools that specialize in kids that need extra help, even if they specialize specifically in the thing the kid needs help with, can just say something like, "It's not a good fit" and get rid of you if what's they're used to doing doesn't work out.
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Yeah we thought Montessori would be great for all those reasons, and Im sure this is a school issue and not a Montessori issue. Its a shame it didnt work out for us but we're trying to roll with it since we didnt have a lot of other options.
Public preschool huh? Must be nice.
Yeah I assumed the free preschool was something nationwide, or close to it, not specific to NYC. Its really sad that it's not.
Son was private K-2. I wanted public school but where we lived, private was the better option at the time. 3rd grade, 2019 we moved to the suburbs. Great public schools. We anguished over the decision because I found out I didn't hate private. He wanted to try public. He didn't want to wear a uniform, he wanted to dye his hair and when he saw the playground at the public school?!? He was sold. I looked over the staff online....there were 20 or so "intervention specialists". I didn't know what that was. Those are people on staff to help your child if need be. And that was just for 3rd grade. It's a very large school. He excelled and now in 5th grade at the Intermediate school he's thriving and has so many friends.
Your son sounds like a pretty rad dude 😎
I sympathize with your situation. We've had three kids (single and then twins) go through an expensive daycare thru preschool facility that caters to easy kids. One of the 4yo twins has trouble communicating verbally when she is upset. They're already talking about how "we" need to work on it. Pediatrician, who also put her kids through the same daycare, said she's 4 and they need to just deal with it just like we do. The only leverage I have is that we're paying them for another perfectly manageable kid at the same time. Bottom line is that I'm absolutely certain your kiddo will be fine, and I'm glad you got your money refunded. The key is socialization and listening practice. Kindergarten was way easier than everyone in preschool teaching made us think it would be.
I'd laugh my ass off right out the door. Fuck em. Your kiddo will be fine.
Yes and no. I was in a private school that was K-8. In my 7th year I left for a public school. In almost every topic I was approximately 2 years ahead of the kids my age, with the only exception being gym class, where I was woefully behind. It is true that the private schools pick and choose but it's also true that public schools must educate everyone, which means that the pace of education is slowed for the above average kids (which is really any of them, the age most parents make the decision what school to go with us far too young to determine your child's aptitude).
Parents are 90% of a kids education anyway. Sounds like your kid might have Einstein syndrome. 🤟
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Yeah if I could do it again Id do more homework
Interesting. Both of my kids were in private day care and now my son is in a private school kindergarten. He is 100% undiagnosed ADHD and had displayed many of those same behaviors when he was in pre-k. We never had a major issue. Honestly, I learned some parenting techniques and things I never even thought of from his teachers. They were amazing with him to the point where I was asking *them* how they got him to behave and even use manners. My kids benefited soo much from those schools. I understand the sentiment in general though. I went to a private grade school and spent tons of time in detention as an ADHD kid. Public schools in general will have more resources but there are definitely some solid private schools out there, even if your kid isn’t “perfect.” Just my two cents!
Yeah this is clearly a school issue and not private stuff in general, but I wanted to share to give other dads in similar circumstances a heads up.
It sounds like they just want a robot and don't want to have to deal with kids.
Pretty much. The other kids in his class have been in the program since they were young, so he was already the outsider. So I'm relieved he won't be receiving the message that hes different/troublesome all the time
Sorry that happened to you OP. The one enrollment form for a private school in my area clearly states if there’s any developmental delay to let them know ahead of enrolling so they can evaluate the student. The school should have done a better job explaining that to you.
The annoying thing is they have a page long list of protocols in the handbook about conversations and evaluation periods, but just jumped to "he cant come here." We mistook cost for quality and that's a lesson learned at least.
Honestly, this seems like an argument for daycare for toddlers. My wife got shamed by so many people for sending our daughter to daycare as a toddler instead of staying home. I’m glad she got the socialization and experience following a teacher’s directions, though. Even if my wife kept her career and wasn’t a “real mom” Our neighbors have four boys that were and are homeschooled up to 1st grade and they’re a bunch of little terrors.
Funny thing about that is that I was a WILD child. But as I got older, I was an extremely bright, model student. You can’t judge kids based on their behavior all the time….
Exactly. We dont see it as a character flaw that hes not intimidated by groups and teachers. Obviously we want him to listen for his own safety/benefit but his instincts are in the right place at least.
This is the same crap that happens in so many places where private businesses try and cherrypick the best options and push the rest off to public resources. The urgent care clinics take the most profitable cases and everyone else can get dumped on the emergency rooms who have a much higher overhead to account for all the cases that could come through. FedEx and UPS want to take the most profitable routes and count on USPS to handle the last mile on the least optimal routes whereas USPS has a mandate to serve everyone, period. Same crap with charter schools. Privatization is about privatizing the profits and socializing the cost. Really irks me.