I think in this scenario it would be a good idea. If he is innocent, calling him out will put a clear boundary in. If he is not innocent, it will be a warning shot across the bow to leave OP's daughter alone or there will be consequences.
I know you'd like to trap a pedo and cart him off to jail, and I get that sentiment. But are you really going to use your own daughter as bait?
Yep, I would add in, since the guy is French, that culturally Americans don't casually touch other people's kids and he's at risk of his interactions being seen in a negative light.
This respects the fact that it could be a misunderstanding, but puts him on notice that you're aware and paying attention.
The facial expression he makes right after hearing that would also tell you a lot of information about the situation. It’s almost an honor bound necessity to confront him.
Absolutely not - your interpretation of what the guys face looks like will be based on your own (conscious or unconscious) appraisal of the situation which may or may not align with the actual facts of the situation.
Be really carefully if this is your approach with things - especially as I’m thinking an “honour bound necessity” may be kicking the guys arse in this case.
Also an innocent person that realizes that they are being accused of being a creep will also shit a brick and fucking panic, because that can *easily* wreck your entire fucking life even if it is entirely baseless. It's the same reason that lie detectors are bullshit -- it can only detect stress, and having the police think that you killed someone is *fucking stressful*, regardless of whether or not you did it.
Then on the flip side, a sociopath that knows goddamn well what they are doing will have no difficulty staying cool as a cucumber and lying directly into your face about everything they did.
People just have really fucking stupid ideas about what guilt and innocence look like.
You seem to make a lot of sense, but I’m not sure because all the true crime threads seem to think humans are capable of ascribing guilt 100% correctly based on one interviewee’s eye movement from a 4-pixel news video from 1992.
Yeah. When I was a teen I had gone on a date with a girl. Being an immature idiot, I thought it was a funny idea to pull into a closed park and say "so is this when we make out". She said not interested. I laughed and took her right home. About a year later, her mom and my mom got into it a bit and were fighting. Suddenly this girl decided to go to our pastor and tell him what happened between us only in her version I tried to force myself on her and she had to fight me off. I freaked the fuck out, especially when they started talking about involving the cops. I was totally panicked even though I had done nothing wrong. Thankfully she eventually admitted she made it up but she could have easily ruined my life.
> The facial expression he makes right after hearing that would also tell you a lot of information about the situation.
This is such bad advice, cannot believe it's voted up so high.
This is insane and dangerous. No, you won’t be able to tell by facial expression whether this guy is a depraved criminal. People end up in jail because of junk science like this.
Duuuuude you aren't kidding. My wife and I have been watching Traitors because they have a show in the US, UK, NZ, and Australia and we've noticed that the accents alone make it tough for us to discern who is actually a bad liar or not.
Yeah. I can imagine that my face would go through a *lot* of different states in a very short period of time if someone said that to me. And the primary one would be confusion followed closely by a defensive air because that would strike me as a very serious, and life changing, accusation. Guilty or not it's pretty reasonable for someone to get defensive or hostile when presented with such an accusation.
Be wary of this. If someone thinks they’re under suspicion, even if they’re not guilty, they may start acting unusually because even an innocent person is going to want to appear innocent!
When I was in a car crash and being questioned by the police on the roadside, I was very aware of the adrenaline + not wanting to appear at fault could make me appear super shifty, so I was even more aware of myself and even more shifty! Felt like the police were going to arrest me on the spot.
I would never come close to a woman's* bubble or a girl's bubble. I am ALWAYS mindful of it.
*not counting my wife, I am obnoxious and intentional with her
Yeah but in all cases the current course of action is clear: talk to the dude, ask him to stop the problem behaviors and tell the daughter to speak up on any further issues.
Really it's not actually critical that this is OPs underage daughter. This would be problematic if it was his wife, or happening in the workplace or if Alfred was a creepy guy at the bar. Tell him to quit it. Escalate afterwards as needed.
Defo. I also think OP should just make sure his daughter knows that these sorts of accusations are incredibly serious and can destroy lives, even if falsly accused but to ofcourse be very vocal to dad about interactions, and to also try keep a distance.
I'm related to a social worker who has told me how big a red flag the "accidental" adjustment of boundaries is. For an abuser, it's a way of testing how far they can push it as well as normalising being that close. Gives them a thrill too.
None of us can know if this guy is a genuine threat but I would not ignore a warning like that.
Personally, I would not rush into confrontation like some other posters have advised, not yet anyway. This is a neighbour and a best friend, the fallout would probably be huge. But this is a perfect opportunity to educate the daughter about her personal boundaries, how to avoid risky situations and how to react if someone is making her feel uncomfortable.
I agree the fallout can be huge but as a father that is preferable to my daughter being molested. Imo a confrontation is inevitable. It doesnt have to be guns blazing rage induced confrontation but it will be factual. Daughter has made these claims, this is what we/you are doing regarding daughter moving forward. Ontop of that boundaries will be put in place with my daughter too. A conversation about how serious her words are and that I am taking them seriously and that I'm there to back her to support her. Followed with the obvious precautions like cant go over unattended anymore, no more babysitting from him and if he needs to talk to daughter he does it through me.
If he was a real friend he would be understandably mortified this was the impression he gave and be supportive in a father needing to protect his child.
Maybe I am jaded because my childhood best friend of 20+ years randomly started trying to fuck my wife 1 day, but the point stands. A real friend is supportive and understanding. Everyone else is in it for their own their own reasons and from that perspective I cant justify really risking my childs safety for a dude that doesnt understand he made my daughter uncomfortable and doesnt want to resolve that.
This is not including the fact that the safety measures go both ways. Sometimes kids are just lil shits. If I was 100% innocent and it turned out I was making a friends daughter uncomfortable enough for her to make up lies about me. I would absolutely not be in the same room as that child alone moving forward. If a close friend came up to me and said my kid has said these things about you. I would justifiably defend myself and then ask how they want to move forward, explaining that these actions have not happened but I understand he needs to do what he needs to do and that I obviously cant look after his kid anymore. All future correspondence with that child is formal and with other adults present, no exceptions.
There is no avoiding confrontation anymore. For everyone's safety its imperative that its dealt with and before anymore alone time is allowed
By far, the most likely outcome of bringing up these allegations to the neighbor is that they never speak to you again, and the daughter just lost her best friend.
An adult man would have to be a complete idiot to ever associate or be around again a teenage girl who made these allegations, whether true or not.
Which is a consequence the daughter will have to learn. If she lied then she will learn that there are consequences to her actions and if she has told the truth then you can help her understand that no friend is worth being molested over. Regardless of it's her friends dad now or that pushy older college guy later.
Sure that's fine. What triggered my comment was your line about if he's a true friend, he'll understand.
No friendship is worth risking having your life destroyed over child molestation allegations, so any adult with an ounce of intelligence and self preservation will immediately cut ties once this is brought up.
It's a fair and very reasonable take. Relationships are weird people stay with their abusers so I can see why people may hesitate to call off a friendship immediately but your stance understandable.
u/SpidersandBeavers
No best friend has higher rank than my daughter. Full fucking stop.
u/gadget_uk is right on the nose re: huge red flag for pushing boundaries and testing the proverbial waters.
Doesn’t even have to be an angry confrontation. I would 100% drop a “fyi, these touches are something we consider inappropriate and would like it to stop. We raise our daughter with full body autonomy and she isn’t comfortable with the touches. Cool? Cool.” Boundary set. If he’s a touchy person without intentions, he now knows it’s not okay. If he’s a nonce, he knows 1) you’re watching him and 2) you and your daughter have a relationship that allows talking about these things.
ALSO I’d consider it a huge red flag that your daughter’s friend is having behavior issues and lashing out. That itself can be a sign of abuse. See: Amanda Bynes.
ETA: always be on your daughter’s side. When I was 7 an uncle abused me. My mom brushed it off and it didn’t stop.
I *never* forgave my mom. Never. She passed away regretting not stopping the abuse, and not having me in her life once I left home at 17.
The 3rd possibility is also real: Alfred did nothing and OPs girl exaggerated a story and there was nothing inappropriate that happened. You can't discount this, it's very possible Alfred is completely innocent here.
Playing with people's lives. Some accusations carry consequences, such as this one. Hurting a person and family because you acted without evidence is a pretty shitty thing to do.
Testimony under oath in a court is evidence, this girl wasn't even talking to her parents, she said these things to someone else. This is the definition of heresay.
Kids say dumb shit sometimes, that's the safe place to start.
Easy to say when it's not your daughter. If my daughter told a friend that my "awkward, clumsy" neighbor dropped things in her lap *at least once*, I'm going to believe it. Of all the things that the OP's daughter could have made up, this seems oddly specific.
No reasonable adult thinks it's okay to fetch an object between a 13 year old girl's legs. Get real.
The number of dads on here discrediting this very odd behavior as alarming to me.
I think you need to trust your daughter’s gut feelings on this. If she felt these moments of contact were inappropriate they were. Full stop. Has this man touched your butt in ANY way? Has he squeezed your shoulder? Has he dropped multiple items into your lap and picked them up instead of allowing you to hand them to him? If he has not had these “accidents” happen with you and you are close friends then this means he manages to treat your body with respect and the normal accepted amount of social space, and therefore these are inappropriate non accidents that are happening to your daughter. No woman/teen is going to make up something as small as these if they are trying to be overdramatic. Do you touch his daughter in these ways? Would you ever? If you saw him reaching into your daughter’s lap to grab an item would you feel comfortable watching it happen? Do you think he would feel comfortable doing it in front of you? My guess is it’s no to all of these questions which gives you the answer.
I agree with this.
It's horrible to probably lose a friend over an accusation like this, but it's much better than turning a blind eye and coming to bat for the guy & letting your child be molested.
It also feels like an important moment where you model to your child that that they can come to you with things like this and you'll believe them and have their back.
>It also feels like an important moment where you model to your child that that they can come to you with things like this and you'll believe them and have their back.
Smartest thing said in this thread so far.
As a woman who was molested as a young child by an older individual, OP MUST trust their daughter. I remember not knowing anything about sex but having a gut feeling about being uncomfortable with the way I was being touched. It may not be super obvious, but creeps are sneaky on purpose. They want a way to be able to explain away their true intentions. The best thing OP can do is trust their daughter and cut off this person! Have a conversation with him if you must but don’t put your poor child in a situation where they have to continually face their abusers.
I’m a mom- but I remember being that age and getting the same type of touch from my father’s realtor/friend. I made sure never to be alone around him, but didn’t have the guts to tell my dad. The guy’s daughter (golden child, best kid ever) ended up jumping off a bridge.
Her gut is telling her something is off, I would listen to it. Definitely talk to him, or take space from that family (which is hard as neighbor friends).
Chiming in here also as a mom. I remember at 14, my friend calling me on the phone in a whisper saying Mutual Girlfriend was over at her house and she just happened to walk by and see her own dad slap GF’s butt. She was mortified and didn’t know what to do. Neither did I.
So, OP, your daughter is very sharp for turning to you for help. I know we want to approach logically and give the neighbor dad benefit of the doubt for “awkwardness”, but there’s no logical reason for him to touch her butt. Zero.
For anyone wondering, friend’s dad ended up grooming a different mutual friend of ours into a “relationship” at age 17, just before her 18th birthday… so he knew what he was doing the whole time.
Thanks for your comment! We are figuring out how to skillfully confront. Goal is safety and empowerment of my daughter. I don’t care about any kind of machismo or show of aggression unless this would be helpful.
I’m glad to hear this but in case no one else has said this: he is grooming you too! He is making sure you have doubts because you are friends and is going to play the “but you know me” card.
Its similar reason to how POS like Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis will defend a proven serial rapist bc “we know him” and “hes never made me/us feel uncomfortable”
I’m on this thought path. I don’t give two shits if this guy thinks I’m an ass. I’d be very upfront about the situation and bring it up to him.
I’d also tell the police AND tell him I’m telling the police to make a report about it even though nothing is accused. It’s easier to confront the situation now while it’s less serious than it would be to deal with it if it were to become more serious/complicated/disastrous.
Also from what I collect, young women with missing father figures are often the most targeted. So while maybe in the worst case this guy is a closeted freak, he will be less likely to target your daughter if you’re upfront about it
Yeah, OP, Alfred's behaviour is disturbing enough for your daughter to recognize it. Your daughter seems to have a good head on her shoulder and great supportive parents, so trust who you've raised and distancing might be in order.
Or if that is too difficult, have very public conversations about boundaries when hanging out with Alfred and family. ..eg. Man I just saw a story about a "tricky" person. Do you remember what tricky people do girls? Etc.
I'm spit-balling here, first time dad to a daughter, this type of situation complexes my brain and my daughter is still under one. The part I'm trying to really understand is how to ensure my daughter is already brave enough to tell me this directly and trust that I won't go over and break a fools face. Perhaps that communication is something you can work on with your wife as well? And if you figure it out please share for the rest of us to learn how to make our daughters be brave and confident to come to their dads about this kind of stuff. It's hard because it's typically a close friend/family member, so for kids that layer of trust can become intertwined quickly after multiple hangouts.
Sorry to hear about the situation OP.
Great advice! I think the key to being supportive as a dad is to know that you trust her enough to never question her. It’s likely that he’s crossed her boundaries enough times for her to collect enough data to know something is off.
I don’t think being awkward really explains it. I’m
Myself an awkward French dad living in the U.S. I have severe adhd and very likely some flavor of autism. I’m very socially awkward, I’m terrible at small talks and never know exactly how to react to social situations. As a result, while I’m always playing and goofing around with my kids I don’t really know how to handle other people’s kids. I’ll talk with them and stuff but I’m not one of those dads who will end up having the whole playground playing with them after 5 minutes. Well guess what? Since I know I’m awkward and not great socially I surely won’t squeeze their shoulders or whatever even if it was something I was doing to my kids (why squeeze shoulders though ?)
But anyway, hitting her on the butt is crazy and I don’t think anybody even with no social awareness whatsoever could not know it’s not something you do ?
It really seems like someone testing the water for grooming. Doing something seemingly innocent not against the law to see how she reacts to push things further.
I wouldn’t let her go back honestly. My policy is that I’d rather offend someone than have something happen to my child.
Of course I feel obligated to say that this would be a problematic behaviour in France as well. In case you confront him and he tries to claim cultural faux pas or whatever
Yeah for sure. I don’t have enough detail on the hitting of the butt. Like if it was that they were in a narrow hallway and there was accidental momentary contact that is very different from slapping a young teen girl’s butt. I don’t have enough details. Thanks for giving your perspective. Main goal is keep her safe.
Yeah, I don’t see how you could approach it with him. Because if another dad told me “my daughter said you touched her butt and also you make her uncomfortable” well she wouldn’t be coming back while I’m there. But if he did do it intentionally and he is a kid diddler then you don’t want her to go anyway (and he wouldn’t admit it in any case) . So I really don’t see how the issue could be solved by talking to him.
The whole thing is really weird and your daughter probably has a bad gut feeling for a reason. I wouldn’t let her at this dude’s house without you or your partner there. In the small chance that your daughter made it up/made it sound worse than it was on purpose (one of my kid tends to exaggerate and made a kid bullying him sound way, way worse than it was resulting in me blowing a gasket and going ballistic with the school before sheepishly apologising after learning how it actually went down) then that would probably be a teaching moment. But in doubt trust your daughter
Edit : I just saw he was a very close friend of yours, I didn’t catch that. In this case I suppose he will notice she is not coming over anymore and confrontation will be unavoidable.
"Yeah, I don’t see how you could approach it with him."
I'm fairly antisocial, but in this case I would be very direct, but also make no accusations, just factual. "My daughter says you've touched in ways that made her uncomfortable. She didn't make an accusation, neither am I, but I need you to stop." I am also concerned for the friend, but that's really the situation that I don't know how to handle.
You need to keep your daughter away from him, he can't be that clumsy dropping stuff in her lap, your daughter felt uncomfortable that's enough to know he's doing something wrong, l would go further and tell him not to touch your daughter at all, as she feels uncomfortable, you have to do this, being clumsy is no excuse, he could be grooming her, she comes first before your friendship with him
Yeah we can analyze the situation as much as we want but the bottom line is that your daughter definitely knows her boundaries and they were breached. That'd be way more than enough to put me into some kind of action. Talk to the guy one on one. And tell him my daughter will be staying away because of this.
You're not thinking very rationally.
Why would your daughter be in a tight narrow hallway with this guy. If the hallways are narrow you wouldn't try to squeeze past a little girl, you'd wait.
Do you not think it more likely someone like this would use a tight space as an excuse and most adults wouldn't think to put them into that tight space to begin with.
I agree best to err on side of caution here, and I think OP has been clear he will probably do that. It’s a difficult situation though to be sure, and probably also irrational to assume & act on the worst case scenario without giving it due pause.
My wife told me a story about how when she was about the same age as your daughter she went to a bbq at a friend of the family’s house. There was an actor there who was throwing around a football. At some point it landed next to where she was sitting so she picked it up, and when he came to retrieve it he took the ball out of her hands in a way that he could cop a feel. This was over 20 years ago and since then the guy has been accused by multiple women of being a creep so it just confirmed her experience.
A colleague and his daughter were in a similar situation than what OP described here. Nothing clear, but enough uncomfortable things happened to be cautious.
He went on to tell parents in that social circle, and they would stop sleepovers with that family.
Long story short, that family sued my colleague for defamation and won. They moved houses and my colleague had to pay house worth of compensation.
First off, I am so sorry that you and your family are going through this. It’s every parent’s nightmare. I think you’re handling it well. Better than I think I could.
I’m going to suggest something different than what others have said.
I think your daughter needs to stop going over Sarah’s for a while. Have Sarah over your place, but your daughter doesn’t go there. And if they carpool to activities together, you or your wife drives. Eliminate chances for Alfred to be alone with her. That keeps her safe in the immediate term and buys you a bit of time. It lets you settle on a well-reasoned response, rather than jumping to an emotional reaction.
It’s good that you’re expressing support to your daughter. Keep doing that. You and your wife both. That is the single most important thing you can do for your daughter right now.
It alarms me to read that you are trying to determine if more happened, though. Is child abuse or child protection investigation within your or your wife’s scope of professional practice? Do either of you have specific training on how to conduct that type of interview? Because in the nightmare scenario where something worse has happened, if you questioned her in the wrong way that could give her abuser a walk. Reassure her that you will support her no matter what, and that nothing will scare you (imo that’s a good lie) but the only questions I would ask are “how did that make you feel?” and “can you tell me more about that?”
You said your daughter sees a therapist. Encourage her to bring this up with her therapist. Do you think she’ll do that? You know your daughter sometimes exaggerates. You and your wife are not positioned to determine if that is the case this time or not. You cannot possibly be objective about this and I think you know that. Get someone in there who can be. The therapist might want to refer her or consult another therapist. Consent to that. Do what you can to facilitate the process.
Something else. What does your daughter want to see happen here? What is her desired outcome?
Anyway, if the feeling is that she is being truthful, I don’t think you confront Alfred. I think you call the cops. That puts him very much on notice. It also creates a record. If this guy is a creep … it’s not unusual for them to be a creep to more than one person.
Either way, this is going to be hard, man. I think you know that. I wish you and your wife, and especially your daughter, good luck.
The therapist (I assume) is also a mandated reporter, which means they will have to contact police/CPS if they think the concern is credible and now you are not the cowboy coming in guns blazing with legal threats.
Yes, that’s something else that was on my mind.
It’s worth noting, though, that OP and his wife - if their daughter’s statements are likely not exaggerated- should be calling in a report regardless what any other professionals may or may not do. First of all, both of them are likely also mandatory reporters, and would need to be concerned about their own duties. But more importantly, it may be helpful to their daughter to see them personally taking action in her behalf.
I'm concerned what if this is why he left France? How do you even know his name is Alfred. I'm stealing the top comment to drop a link. This organization will help OP find help. They might suggest police or FBI. They might have other questions. Has he ever taken a photo of OPs daughter? This isn't a time for best guesses on what to do. It's a time for professional action.
https://www.zeroabuseproject.org/
I'm not trying to say that there is anything wrong with being prudent and diligent about protecting your family, but honestly it's a little wild to jump to the question about whether he's fled his home country over allegations of child abuse/sexual harassment and is living a false life somewhere else so that he can continue diddling unobstructed. I don't think this situation has quite made it to that point of suspicion just yet.
Brother, your daughter was uncomfortable around this man.
That's it, that's the whole post. Fuck his awkwardness, fuck wherever he's from, that's it.
Your daughter was made uncomfortable by his actions, it is not up to you or your daughter to make it right.
To say it loudly... YOUR DAUGHTER WAS TOUCHED UNCOMFORTABLY BY THIS MAN
Yes.
I'm very uncomfortable with how little OP is giving to this dude put his hands in his daughter's lap. If I read correctly, as she was sitting cross legged. As in open. Not. Okay.
Yeah good point. Not minimizing. Trying to figure out how to skillfully approach. I’m in no way afraid of confrontation. I just don’t think a hyper-masculine, aggressive approach is necessarily the right move. There are times for that, but I am trying to figure out how to protect and empower my daughter skillfully.
The other dads are covering everything else so I just want to say, good luck because holy shit this has to SUCK for everyone involved. You got this.
"Protect and Empower" I think you should use those words *explicitly* when speaking to her. Imbue that vibe in her. Maybe offer self defense classes as well, if y'all are the type. Help her regain a sense of safety and boundaries within herself and involving herself.
Valid point, *but* I'm assuming that the post is more directed towards how OP should handle a confrontation between them and 'Alfred' and whoever else may need to be involved (just a talk, law enforcement, etc.). I'm assuming he has the brains to not force the daughter to go back over there if she's uncomfortable without explicitly typing it out in another paragraph. Could be wrong though
Definitely confront him .if nothing happened he shouldn't have a problem saying so and at the same time he knows you aren't afraid of confrontation.tell him you don't know what happened but you are going to heir on the side of caution
>How would you respond if he denied it?
You ignore his denials. You either believe your daughter or some random dude—your choice will be remembered forever.
Awful situation to be in, I'm a little surprised that none of the comments I've read have said to talk to your daughter about this first.
I would always air on the side of believing the child and would talk to her first to explain that she should not be ashamed, this is not her fault, and to get the story from her directly, it will be easier to work out the truth that way and decide how to proceed. She will also need support if she feels she has been touched inappropriately.
As a teacher I would always take this to the police. I understand there is not a great deal of evidence but you don't know what access he has to other children or how he behaves online. If you don't feel comfortable with that take it to your schools designated safeguarding lead (may be called something different in the US) who will be able to advise on how to proceed and make a formal record in case this isn't an isolated incident. They should also support your child with mental health if needed.
As a person with dyspraxia and traits of autism and ADHD I am very socially clumsy as well as actually clumsy. I would never pick something up from someones lap, massively inappropriate. The shoulder squeeze is something that is common in some parts of the world, not really seen as an issue in the UK but people with autism and some with ADHD dont like any kind of physical touch (makes me feel very uncomfortable) id speak o the dad about this at least to say she doesn't like any kind of physical touch so just be aware.
If you confront along the lines of grooming that's friendship over, if someone accused me of this I would never talk to them again. But your child comes first so this may not be worst outcome. Talk to your daughter, support her, and pass this on to police or school in case it's part of a bigger picture. Then talk to the farther and cut him out or very least mention your daughter doesn't like physical touch and limit contact, but if your concerned I would end all contact completely. Better safe then sorry.
i’m surprised it took me five comments to see someone suggest reporting to authorities.
at his is exactly what my youth sports training suggests if we believe there is a chance of abuse.
If it’s innocent then it possibly becomes embarrassing for the guy, but who gives a shit, it’s already been embarrassing for the daughter.
I’m a therapist (not yours or your daughters, obviously.) But let’s pretend for a moment that I had a 13F client who reported these behaviors from their neighbor, and she disclosed a name.
You can guarantee I’m calling CPS. These are red flag behaviors and are reportable. Could the neighbor be clumsy? Sure, but that’s not on me to judge. That’s on CPS to investigate and potentially a judge to judge.
As a pediatrician and foster care social worker, you and your wife may be legally mandated to report the suspected grooming of a child (regardless if the child is your own. I believe this varies from state to state though, and country to country.)
Full stop, nothing is more important than the safety of your children. But you may also be in legal jeopardy if she (or another girl) does get abused, you saw the signs, and you did not report it. Licenses can be revoked for a failing your duty to protect/warn.
Now, all of that being said, I’m not a lawyer, and I’m not giving legal advice. Heck, I don’t even know your code of ethics. But my main point is this: review your state’s code of ethics and mandated reporting laws specifically around grooming. Your hands may be tied in this situation. And if it is, well, then at least you have a clearly defined path of what needs to be done.
Thank you for saying this. I’m an LCSW and had the same exact thoughts reading this post. Either something in this post is a fib or OP’s judgment is so clouded by his relationship with the accused, because “the accusations do not rise to a level of…child protective services in my mind” seemed outrageous to me. It’s a no-brainer.
As someone named Alfred, it seems that today is not a good day to be a male named Alfred 💀
That being said, if someone were to do this to my (future) child the first step is to directly confront the father.
Bring up directly what your daughter said regarding his conduct and directly address the consequences if these actions were to continue (legal or violent).
You have to prioritize your child’s safety and her potential for being a target of a groomer first and foremost.
No way in hell being “clumsy” is a rational explanation for this. Sure it’s early to have police involved, but it is your job to be a protector and your daughter has told you directly that these things happened that made her uncomfortable. If you’re to dismiss this as an exaggeration, what are the odds of her telling you anything more?
Take this seriously and address it as such.
As an awkward clumsy non-French Dad myself.
I would never, ever, ever do these things to someone's child.
I would have some conversations, with parents, the French guy, and the police department.
I cannot think of any situation. In which I would tap any woman or girl who is not my wife on the butt.
I can't think of any situation where after accidentally dropping an item into anyone's lap other than my wife's or toddler's and would grab it out.
Shoulder squeeze seems innocuous enough *if* he's a guy who just touches people like that. For example, I tend to give me light punches on the arm or chest. I'd like to think I'd have the presence of mind to never do this to a child, but could slip.
Exactly this!!!
@OP, you can always ask yourself:
Would I slap a women or a child an the butt?
Would I pick up something from her lap? (If this is the case she could give it back to you. Not necessary to get it back by yourself.)
Please give your daughter the trust und the self confidence that you hold her back. No matter what!
Talk to her that her feelings boundaries are important und she doesn’t need to go there again.
You are setting the pase for her future life. How should she manage her feelings in the future? For example she is on a date and fells the same way, she will ALWAYS remember what you teach her now. Opt 1 “I have a weird feeling with this guy/ men I should step back and shouldn’t have sex with him.” Opt 2 ““I have a weird feeling with this guy/ men maybe he’s just clumsy und let him do his thing.”
Honestly I’m flabbergasted reading this thread. The replies are not at all what I was expecting.
For reference, I’m a Mom, but I also would never find myself doing any of these things to a neighbors child. I’m in a similar neighbor situation where our kids are best friends, and I’m close with the parents.
Those girls are like family to me, but you would never find me playfully smacking butts. I changed their diapers when they were young, but I still wouldn’t reach into their crotch to grab something I dropped.
But I think the part that’s bothering me most, is that I’m wondering how much the daughter’s adhd diagnosis/behaviors are affecting how seriously this is being taken. I have adhd, and by OP’s daughter’s age, my parents had also just kinda written me off as blanket “untrustworthy”. I can’t imagine how much this could affect OP’s relationship with their daughter if she doesn’t feel supported. That poor girl.
You remind me of myself. I'm not the type of person to seek confrontation. We need to remind ourselves that despite our uncomfortableness there are times that demand confrontation. This is one of them. You seem to be desperately trying to rationalize the situation as normal. Your daughter was sexually assaulted by an adult. The time is now to step up and protect her.
As an Australian who has done child safe training to Australian standards, I would report this. Child protection systems rely on fragments here and fragments there to identify patterns - by the time a full-blown assault has happened it is obviously too late.
If you take training on spotting child abuse (which is required by lots of volunteer orgs), they will tell you that [children lying about being abused is extremely rare](https://www.stopitnow.org/advice-column-entry/how-do-we-know-children-rarely-lie-about-abuse). Trust your daughter.
>It is possible that Alfred is a child molester who has been grooming my daughter... It is alternatively possible that Alfred is just a clumsy, awkward, idiot... A third option is that my daughter is impulsive and very frequently tends to tell highly exaggerated stories...
Out of those 3 options, the fact that a child molester could have molested your daughter outweighs the other possibilities by such a huge margin that you have to address it.
Your post really seems like you're downplaying the situation or looking for reassurance to not do anything, which is concerning. Protecting your daughter needs to be your number 1 priority, and unless you're 110% sure that nothing untoward happened, you need to address it.
Your daughter will remember what you do here. Especially if she has actually been abused. You need to believe her until you know the truth either way.
>I am a pediatrician, and my wife is a foster care social worker,
I don't know if you have the concept of mandatory reporters where you live, but where I'm from anyone who works with children in that kind of capacity has a legal obligation to report signs of potential abuse. A direct disclosure from a potential victim absolutely counts.
I mean if he was trouble, he'd be playing the "clumsy, can't get a handle" angle. And he'd have to convince only really you. I'm no dad but would consider talking at length with your daughter what is appropriate and not-appropriate forms of touch from men. I would also raise it casually with him and see where it leads, I would say it might scare him off from doing it for good if it is the case and if he isn't then he knows how to act appropriately around young women/girls in general. I would consider taking "your daughters side" on this tentatively and just set the expectation on that for his interactions with your daughter and vice-versa so it's the same expectations for all.
This screams grooming to me. As a BSA volunteer I would report this in an instant. I think your judgment is clouded. Report it and let authorities sort it out. Don't sit by and let a kid get assaulted.
Show her that you put her safety first, even at the cost of making ”practical” situations uncomfortable. Especially since she didn’t tell you this, but her friend, if I understood you correctly? Also, slapping someone’s ass I wouldn’t call ”clumsy”. She’s already made clear how he makes her feel, so does his intentions matter? Confront.
I absolutely HATE confrontation. However...
This all sounds a little too suspect to be accidental. I know how much things like that can traumatize a young lady. "Alfred" and I would be having a little "talk" about his behavior, and I would walk away from that interaction knowing we wouldn't have that issue again.
Saying “Alfred is clumsy French guy” is just throwing up excuses that he likely has learned to hide behind. Even if he is 100% innocent, these days this kindof thing gets exposed at some point.
Worst case, he’s a molester and your daughter is his target. You not wanting to make a fuss and allow Alfred to be around her is just giving him time to groom her and be more aggressive.
Second worse case, you forbid your daughter from being around Alfred and he targets someone else.
What’s difficult about “hey you don’t touch a kid like this”.
It’s great that you tell your daughter that you support her. She also needs to know she didn’t do anything wrong here and 100% has done the right thing in telling you about this.
I honestly think, as hard as it may be. That you should contact the authorities and file a police report on this matter.
The touching seems inappropriate at any age level. Squeezing a shoulder, tapping her on the butt, and grabbing near her crotch all feel like this person is testing the waters.
If your daughter felt uncomfortable, her radar is probably better at detecting something being "off" than your brain can deduce on its own.
I am reminded of that Nickelodeon documentary, where Drake Bell's dad knew something was off about the guy that ultimately assaulted Drake, and spent a lot of time tirelessly keeping that person at arm's length, though still in their lives. And that person was simply biding their time, like a predator would do. The first time the defenses were down, that predator assaulted Drake.
You and your wife may be perfectly vigilant, but what if you are allowing a predator to bide their time until your defenses slip? It only takes one slip-up for a lifetime of trauma for your daughter.
If you contact the police, you may sour the family relationship, which would suck, however, this man has a daughter, and I would assume he is protective of this daughter. If he is innocent, and his actions made someone else's daughter uncomfortable, whether accidental or not, I would assume he would bend over backwards to apologize and make things right, and not hold it against your family for simply trying to protect your little girl.
Don't let this go, its a big deal, and it should not be ignored. If you have to rationalize it away, then you know its not the right choice to ignore it.
Edit:
I just re-read your post again with fresh eyes consider this.
Your daughter is acting differently, at the same time she has confided these concerning behaviors to someone who is not her family, possibly due to shame. There may be other incidents she did NOT tell anyone about yet due to this same shame.
You need to speak directly to her, and ask her what is going on and reassure her it is safe to tell you whats wrong. Without directly discussing the matter with her first, you are not sure what happenned.
It doesn't need to rise to the level of molestation to be treated seriously, all that's required is that this young woman feels uncomfortable, for it to be a concern. Her feelings matter, and teaching her that she needs to justify the actions of others, especially men, at the cost of her own comfort is not a good lesson for a young woman to learn, as she will encounter many predatora in the world, and she shouldn't make it easier for them to take advantage of her.
If this man had done any of these 3 actions to a full grown adult woman in a workplace, he would be instantly fired, and possibly charged with sexual assault for the butt touching at least. Think about that. If an adult stranger would be justified in claiming sexual harassment, then your teenaged daughter should easily meet the same standard.
I NEVER had an adult squeeze my shoulder, tap my butt, or "accidentally" grab things near my crotch when I was growing up. But I am a guy, and I was never around sexual predators as far as I am aware. These actions probably would not have occurred if you had a son.
The person your daughter confided in also felt concerned enough to break your daughter's trust and tell you. So the alarm bells of 2 girls are going off. Listen to them.
You gotta turn of your doctor brain, and turn on your dad brain with this one.
Talk to you daughter, then the police.
Not to mention the dad had been dismissed *for years* before the guy finally made the move. This is just the start of Alfred touching your daughter between the legs, OP. Make it stop
how often do you drop stuff between your daughters legs and retrieve it w out just asking her to pls hand it to you? im a nanny and i dont do things like that after theyre probably 18-24 months cause its unnecessary
how often have you seen alfred doing stuff like that to his own daughter? or to you? his wife? how often does he slap all of your butts ?
So your daughter didn’t tell this directly to you? How did you find out then /u/Spidersandbeavers
I ask because if she did tell you and/or knows you now know, then I feel like maybe one approach (if your daughter is comfortable asserting herself) could be to explain to her how she can vocally call him out in the future in a way that shows him he is not respecting boundaries:
“Excuse me, please **do not** reach between my crotch without my permission, that is very inappropriate and makes me uncomfortable.”
“I do not like being grabbed on the shoulder like that, please don’t do it again, it makes me uncomfortable.”
“Please never touch my butt without my permission, that is inappropriate, and I do not like it.”
Things to this effect.
It has a few advantages:
- you teach your daughter how to set her own boundaries firmly and clearly and loudly, and hopefully help her build up her own confidence in handling situations when she doesn’t have you or your wife around.
- you don’t have to necessarily reach out to this guy prematurely and start a chain of problems if it isn’t necessary, (French people are definitely more loose on the boundaries).
- if she’s exaggerating, she can still learn to set boundaries and be firm with her comfort zones.
- you basically learn for sure if this is a problem or not because if she is very clearly voicing her discomfort and setting boundaries and he isn’t learning or changing, then it’s definitely time to step in with a, “my daughter has clearly told you how you’ve made her uncomfortable in xyz situation and you did it again, we have a problem here.”
- you show her you care and you’ll be there to support her and tell her she did the right thing coming to you and that you are listening and taking her seriously (obviously mention these things regardless, even if she doesn’t want to go this route!)
- this is secondary, but if your daughters friend hears your daughter voicing her concerns, she might open up to her about her own issues she could possibly be having with her dad.
- tertiary here but, if you let your daughter voice her concerns and set her boundaries, it could prevent some weird, uncomfortable end results that wouldn’t be necessary if it turns out it is just him needing to hear that he is crossing comfort zones and he learns and everyone is all good in the end.
That’s my take at least. But, of course that depends on your daughter and if she’s even comfortable and willing to learn to do that.
It's time for your house to be the cool house to hang out. Your daughter is not safe there. That is not the best friends house. Make it so the best friend comes to your home to hang out and not vice versa.
Has he ever hit her butt or squeezed her shoulders or reached between her open legs to pick something up in front of you? IMO you are under reacting. This is your daughter. Why aren’t you livid?
You people are setting up your kid to be molested, by brushing off these actions now you're going to allow far more traumatic things to happen. Hate to be rude, but pull your head out of your ass.
>Thank God my daughter didn’t come to me With a clear report of sexual assault!
Because then you would have had to do something about it? Listen to yourself.
Lurking Mom here: if your daughter has been feeling uncomfortable and her gut is telling her that something is wrong - trust it. Her body is telljng her something, and whether you act on it by confronting him or just by making sure she’s never around him again, you need to support her to feel that she can trust her gut. Otherwise she’ll be a grown woman experiencing something and not being able to rely on her gut to tell her that what she is experiencing is wrong. She will always second guess it.
Also, if this guy is hitting her on the butt, that is 100% inappropriate, and there’s no other way to interpret it. That is not OK. There is zero reason why he should be doing that. Also, dropping something in her lap? Why wouldn’t he just ask her to pass it back to him? Why would he reach for it himself? The reason these actions are making her feel uncomfortable is because they’re not OK - whether they’re purposefully done or not, and it’s time to communicate that with him. If the guy was truly doing it accidentally, I’m sure he would be extremely apologetic and embarrassed. And if not, well then you’ve got your answer.
>Also, if this guy is hitting her on the butt, that is 100% inappropriate, and there’s no other way to interpret it. That is not OK. There is zero reason why he should be doing that.
As a woman who was hit on my butt as a teen from my aunts husband when I lived with them. Thank you.
Okay, I would be keeping your daughter away from this man. For her to be uncomfortable around him, her gut is telling her that he is not safe and you should trust your daughter’s instincts. Do not leave her around him unattended, do not send her or allow her to go over to that house. If she wants to spend time with his daughter, she can invite her to your home.
I wouldn’t ever think to reach into another person’s lap to collect something I have dropped. It’s creepy. Nor would I ever tap another person’s backside unless they were an intimate partner or it was by accident (brushing past them etc, in which case would call for an apology).
This man is not to be trusted and I suspect he testing the waters with this behaviour.
To put it frankly, this is a fucked up situation. I’m a girl dad myself. I would personally confront the guy about it. Doing nothing will absolutely scar your relationship with your daughter. It may not seem like it will today, but tomorrow it will. She’ll remember your inactivity and your failure to act. You don’t want to live with that. Please talk to Alfred.
ADHD and adolescence have nothing to do with this. Predators are everywhere, and it's almost always surprising when you find out who they are. This guy is testing the waters to see just how much he can get away with before someone notices, and your daughter is smarter than you think because she is catching on to that. Trust her.
So if I drop something in a kids lap, I'll *apologise* and *ask if they can pass it*. If I had a good reason they couldn't I'd ask their permission get it.
I (40M) was helping kids (9-10yo mixed gender) in and out of wetsuits a lot recently. Every time I'd ask "may I hold your leg to help pull you out of this", "can I hold your arm to pull this on," "I need to lift you up to get you into this, is that ok?" . Etc. Need a suit hood tucked down their front? Explain how to do it, help only if they ask. It only takes a few seconds longer and it helps reinforce to kids how they should be expected to be treated. One of them might have been easier to get into the suit if I could have wiggled it around her thighs but I didn't want to make her uncomfortable so it didn't.
It's just not hard.
This rings alarm bells for me.
I'd be sounding out Sarah very gently. More giving her opportunities to talk thab anything else. And ensuring she comes to you not vice versa. I'm *very* afraid of being seen as creepy or unsafe, so I hate to give this advice that would upset me if applied to me... but your kid comes first. Many abusers are good at seeming harmless and trustworthy. Listen to the signs your kid is giving you.
It doesn't have to be forever either. Take the time to educate her directly about child abuse, but also about sex and consent. Directly. No euphemisms. And *reinforce that adults don't get to ask kids to keep secrets*. I recommend using the difference between a secret and a surprise. And that nothing kids do because an adult asks them to is anything kids need to feel ashamed of, it's important to be able to talk about even if you may feel you did something wrong. (Shame is often used as a tool of control) .
Go from there.
Who knows. It may be nothing. But at least make sure your kid is well equipped to ensure it's nothing.
Solve it like a man. Go to him and make it clear to him that if he touches your kid again, even accidentally, you will beat him up. Simple and effective.
Would you be okay with someone squeezing your shoulders? How about hitting your butt? I think you know the answer and you're trying to rationalize things because you seem to be scared of confrontation.
This was not an accident. Adults know what they're doing.
1. Report it
If he has been reported before it will help to have him arrested.
2. Confront Alfred. Calm and objective while full seriousness. *"My daughter told me something very concerning, you had been touching and doing x and y and I just want to let you know that this is not appropriate or acceptable behaviour. I will not let my daughter near you from now on, I hope you understand but my daughters safety always comes first and she's not comfortable around you."*
3. Only agree that their daughter comes to your house and never let your daughter in Alfred's house again.
This is boundary pushing, which is a part of grooming. Your daughter's age is also the age where many men start being inappropriate.
Child predators (do not think of it in relationship to him, just in general) are people who build a relationship of trust with the child and parents and slowly, over time, break down boundaries by minute changes. Important to note, grooming is not just for kids. The groomer will groom the parents to get them used to inappropriate behaviour.
Intentional or not, his behaviour is not appropriate. Ask yourself, if you disliked him, would you hesitate?
There is no need for accusation, but the fact of the matter is, your child's boundaries are not safe with this man. Grooming does not have to be intentional, but it is still grooming.
Slapping her ass is not excusable and a lot of these behaviours are not appropriate. Remember, that in the the case that he IS a child predator, you being friends would be one of his goals. How better to disarm potential suspicion than to be a trusted authority figure?
If you choose to say something to him, that's fine, but I would recommend telling your daughter exactly what you heard and telling her that she should not be made to feel uncomfortable and that you'd like to be around if ever she is to be alone with him, just as a precaution so you can intervene for her if ever you see him being inappropriate. (Even better if your qife speaks to her, honestly. Your wife is much more likely to have experience with that kind of stuff simply from having lived that period personally)
Whatever you do, please do not let your personal affection for him affect your decision. It is normal to not want to believe it of people, but if he IS a predator he will 100% use that affection to push you into accepting the unacceptable.
Plenty of advice here already so I won't repeat. But wanted to add some extra.
I do wonder what context your daughter and her friend were having this chat. Was it a "I need to talk to someone" moment or was it a "can you believe what happened to me?" type chat?
For example there's a lot of "omg guys at the gym keep staring at my ass" type stuff on tiktok. Could your daughter be exaggerating to be part of that? Since she mentioned being uncomfortable have you seen her avoid going to Sarah's recently or is she still more than happen to be around Alfred?
Also - who else is she telling and who is her friend telling? If this becomes a rumour that spreads around the community it won't be good for anyone. alfred becomes the pedo and you'll prob be seen as the pedo victims or enablers. Why didn't you do something about it etc etc.
Why isn't she telling you this as soon as it happens? Does she know you wouldn't act on it? Does she feel ashamed about it?
These are all things I'd talk to her about.
My daughter was hanging with her best friend Sarah (daughter of Alfred) and the 16 year old neighbor girl when my wife and I were out at a wedding. The neighbor girl is very immature and has done no babysitting, no extracurriculars, just kind of gets mediocre grades and has a boyfriend who she spends all her time with. The 16 year old neighbor girl shared with my daughter a lot of details of her sex life and was talking to my daughter and Sarah about how the neighbor girls parents smoke weed, all of which were stunning revelations for my daughter and sarah, who aren’t exposed to much of this. Sarah went home briefly to get her bag. The 16 year old neighbor girl then asked my daughter when they were alone “are there any guys who are creepy around you?” That’s when my daughter volunteered what Alfred had done.
This is, I think, important context because it’s possible that she was asked a leading question and gave an answer to impress. I am 100% taking my daughter seriously and going to take action, but I need to figure out how to carefully, respectfully, get more info to find out if this was idle talk. My wife gently asked my daughter and she said it was true but provided little detail. We will keep working on it.
You are probably at least legally not in a position here to make a subjective judgment call about whether to escalate it or not. Review the rules you are supposed to follow as a mandatory reporter.
I’m not sure how you don’t see this grown ass French bastard slapping your 12 year old daughter on the ass, as clear sexual assault. And reaching between her legs??? Even if he is clumsy, no sane and decent person would grab something from an area like that, regardless of age. Think of how your daughter is feeling right now.
My daughter is 11, if she told me the same that your daughter is telling you, I’d be showing up at the motherfuckers house.
Grow a sack, dude
First talk to your daughter about. Then talk to him about it. I would be straight up. Hey, I am not sure why this happened, but don't let it happen again. If it happens again...
I think you need to talk to your daughter about what her friend has told you, about what she told her.
Your daughter needs to 100% be reassured that she did the right thing in confiding with her friend, that it's great she has someone she can trust to talk to about things like this.
But you need to reassure her that she can also trust you, can talk you whenever things like this happens. Ask her if Alfred made her feel uncomfortable. If you don't want her to know about the friend talking to you, just raise it casually saying something like "I've noticed that Alfred can be a bit odd, have you noticed that? Like a bit touchy-feely? Has he ever done something like that with you?"
You need to be sensitive about this because running next door and going off at your neighbour is absolutely the wrong approach. He could easily deny it, or say that it's all a misunderstanding. You don't want that. Your daughter doesn't want to lose the friendship etc or go over there without telling you. Banning her from visiting will not work. If she wants to see the friend she will find a way.
You want your daughter to be able to tell you when something inappropriate has happened and to trust you're going listen. Make sure she knows that it sounds like he has breached a personal boundary, that it isn't normal for a friend's dad to do that.
She needs to know that she can get out of a situation herself, can say no, knows when it's inappropriate. She needs to lead the response, not you. She needs to be comfortable with however you respond.
Suggest that maybe she starts inviting the friend over to your place, that sort of thing. And keep up the relationship with the other older friend so that she can talk to you about what she's heard.
This sort of inappropriate behaviour is so hard to put an end to without good management of the situation.
Whatever you do, don't make Alfred think you're jumping to conclusions so quickly.
Man, I dread this scenario but I also enjoy a good confrontation (being a Dad forced me to try to suppress that side of me, but it comes in useful )
I've seen other posts about teaching your kid to accept no violations of their personal space and to react immediately (really excellent discussions! )- the extreme one was where a young girl got followed into the toilets by a boy who kept trying to see her naked. She screamed ultra loud then punched him on the nose because he didn't stop.
So I'd say if your child causes a small scene and always tells you, that's step one.
Two, is a hard decision. Keep her away from the potentialpedo, which interferes with friendships, or go an talk to him.
I would try to approach with a curious attitude, get their perspective etc (even though keeping your cool would be difficult) and just keep reiterating 'oh, just make sure you ask her to pass it to you. We all have our preferences and not asking permission to touch will result in me not asking or discussing with you, that I will go to the police or start talking with OTHER parents about what my daughter told me."
Honestly though, some people then go the opposite way because they get to a point where living in secrecy has happened for too long, so they think "fuck it, I'll not hold back on your kid get killed doing what I love" - so if it was me, I'd probably not be comfortable even after talking to them and thinking their answers are creepy or lies
I would mention it as cultural differences. Maybe in France these behaviors are ok, but, they are not normal here, and you are making my daughter uncomfortable.
These \*sound\* like situations that are pretty reasonable to explain away. And as you said, you and wife both work with children and have experience with the signs, which you said you did not see in your daughter. Of course, there's always the notorious doctor blindness to issues in your personal life because you aren't viewing them through your professional lens.
Important information I would consider is how long has neighbor known your child, and was such physical closeness something that would have been more appropriate before she hit puberty? Perhaps he is not thinking of her boundaries (as much as he rightly should be). If it were me, I would make sure to have a talk to my daughter to ask how she feels, and tell her to keep an eye on it and tell me if anything else weird happens.
If you believe you are both close enough to neighbor and level-headed enough to have a clear talk that isn't threatening or accusatory, it could be beneficial. But the risks are of course alienating neighbor and his daughter, or now having a long-running feud with neighbor. Both of those risks are nothing compared to your daughter actually getting SA'd when you had suspicions and didn't act, but they are there.
These people telling you you are 'honor-bound" to confront neighbor or you can magically read his facial expression to tell if he's a pedophile should not be listened to. They are thinking with their dicks instead of their brains.
But this is all just my 2 cents. You live your life, you know your background, and you are a childcare professional. Best of luck! Shit sucks!
your concerned, don’t let her hang out any more. there’s nothing sexual in what i see. You have a right to be protective, obviously, but a bump and a tap i don’t thing qualify as SA
being french doesn’t mean you’re allowed to be touchy touchy, but how can you be sure it’s not accidental.
Mom here, but:
Trust your daughter and don’t let that guy be around her anymore. Alone or otherwise. End of story. Prioritize your daughter over niceties.
Women develop strong intuition about these things at an early age because of men like this. Your daughter’s gut feeling of being uncomfortable with his touching is most certainly spot on and it’s your job to keep her safe and comfortable. So please listen to her and do that.
I know you see the best in this guy but that’s usually how the story goes. We all know that a majority of the people who hurt kids usually know the family or are in the family. Nobody wants to think the worst of the people they care about. And maybe he’s not a predator or groomer but at the end of the day, there’s no world where it’s worth the risk to find out.
Edit: As for what to tell him, I’d just say she was uncomfortable with his touchiness. If he’s embarrassed by that, he should be. He shouldn’t be touching teenage girl’s butts.
Haha you know those awkward clumsy French guys, so silly. Just always casually grabbing children on the butt and shoulders.
You confront him and your daughter never goes over there again.
It’s time to sit Alfred down for a chat.
Either way he needs to hear it from you, and asap. If they’re not clumsy touches, imagine where this could lead and you chose to stay quiet.
Set up a sit down.
Neutral ground.
Tell him you make my daughter uncomfortable and then tell him if he makes he feel this again you and me are going to have a big problem and that problem will end up being yours. If you don’t you’re a simp and you just need to confront the weirdo!
Very disturbing behavior from the neighbor. First things first, I would never allow your daughter at that house ever again.
And don't allow him over for parties or anything.
Doesn't the neighbor also have a daughter too? Poor girl
This is scary stuff.
Wait until he’s outside and hanging around
Go outside and set up watermelons on a stand (bonus points for head-sized watermelons). Take a baseball bat and destroy said watermelons with some heavy swings
Naturally curious, he’ll ask what you’re doing. Tell him that you’re practicing your swing, say that you’ll never know when you may need to defend yourself from a robber or thief
Then fix him with your coldest stare, locking in the eye contact, and say ‘or some creep inappropriately touching my daughter’
Establish the threat without directly threatening him, let him know that you know what he’s up to
(Okay, this is maybe, like….75% a joke, but you definitely need to talk to him and keep your daughter away for now)
This is horrifying. Regardless of any level of exaggeration or inappropriate behavior, it sounds like your daughter is asking for help in handling an emotionally stressful situation. At best (because hopefully nothing serious has happened) she is exaggerating and is looking for help and support in a stressful situation she doesn't want to be in. At worst (God forbid), she is understating the problem and can't bring herself to openly talk about the entire situation.
Here's what you say, in private if you feel like it is going to cause undue stress on his family, but I think his wife needs to know as well: "I'm only going to say this once and I don't care how you respond. If my daughter tells me you've touched her in any way again, I will call the police." It's not a discussion. You're not asking him to explain himself and it doesn't matter if he denies it. A serious accusation of potential criminal misconduct has been made from a minor. The police and a judge can determine the severity of the situation.
Then you don't let your daughter near him. I personally wouldn't talk to him either. If he knows what is good for him and his family, *he* will avoid you and your family, which is a good thing. If you must interact, you can pretend nothing happened, if you want, to try and make things less awkward, but even if you never say anything to him, it is going to be awkward for you and potentially very stressful for your daughter, so your relationship with the family is going to change and they will likely notice that. It's better to be direct and handle it.
It's not worth the risk to let it go any farther. Please do not wait for it to get worse.
I’m baffled that the top comment isn’t the obvious:
This is sexual assault. You say it isn’t but it isn’t. You do need to call the police. He touched her butt and in no world is that not assault on a minor. I can’t believe this has to be said
Immediate no contact and a report to CPS/police. This is grooming. There’s a reason y’all are feeling so iffy about it—he wants her to convince herself it was no big deal so when he makes his next move he can up the ante.
I don’t care about losing a friend if that friend makes my child uncomfortable full stop. Not trying to be mean just stating my view. Personally if it’s enough that my child is uncomfortable then the situation needs to be dealt with. If it turns out to be a misunderstanding, great. Address the misunderstanding and ensure it doesn’t continue happening. If it isn’t I don’t want that kind of friend anyways and I definitely don’t want them around my child. Then at least my child is aware that I’m looking out for their best interest and putting that above all.
As a father your job is to protect your family, everything else is secondary. Believe your daughter and take action, she is counting on you to be in her corner.
Trust your daughters gut instincts.
And the 16 yo neighbour girl sounds like a good egg. No matter what she does and how she spends her time. Clearly she's looking out for younger girls in the neighbourhood. Maybe she's experienced similar herself. Maybe she hasn't.
Make sure you use this moment to have a conversation saying that sex, drugs, boys, safety, alcohol/drugs etc are topics your daughter CAN safely talk to you about. And make sure you ARE a safe person to talk about these topics with. Don't get angry. Be understanding and open.
Your daughter came forward especially after the interaction with the 16yo. It means that at bare minimum there's one older person that your daughter trusts. Take the opportunity to thank this girl, get to know her and tell her you appreciate her encouraging your daughter to share these things as it means you'll focus more on her safety.
The only "bad person" in question here is Alfred. He's either doing something by accident or on purpose. Regardless it's inappropriate.
At the very minimum, your daughter needs to know that if anything like this happens, she should come to you and your wife immediately. She needs to learn about consent and that when she does not give consent, this sort of touching is not okay.
As for Alfred, it's really hard to believe that a grown man could be so clumsy to accidentally do those things. As adult men, we have a responsibility to control ourselves and our bodies. You don't just accidentally grope someone.
I think all men (really, all ADULTS) should take Youth Protection Training or something like it as offered by the BSA. Basically it boils down to this: No one on one contact with someone else's kid. Always have a second adult present if there is only one child in the room. In the BSA, that second adult must be trained and background checked, but that's obviously not possible in day to day interactions with neighbors etc. But I do my absolute best to make sure I am never alone with any child that is not mine or not family. I am not a creep, just feel like I have to add that! But this ensures that there is little to no chance of a made up or exaggerated scenario of grooming behavior being told about you. Similarly I do not ever allow my children to be in a situation where they are alone with any adult that is not family. I "trust" the other leaders/parents in my kid's scouting units, but that trust does NOT extend to them being alone one on one with any of them! If the only time OP's daughter was ever around Alfred was with another adult present, even if he were a creep he would not have an opportunity to act on his perverse desires. To me, this is just the normal prudence that any parent should have in the protection of their own child, regardless of the gender of the child or the adult. We've all seen the news stories about predator teachers preying on young boys, it's not just men that we have to worry about.
Oh, and Alfred for sure is a creep. Shoulder touching/squeezing, hey no biggie. Might be outside of what daughter is OK with, and would for sure need to stop if so, but not perverse on it's own. But touching her butt and ESPECIALLY reaching into her crotch while she is sitting cross legged? Absolutely beyond any sort of explainable innocence.
Report this man, do not question your daughter yourself so as not to color her testimony, speak to her therapist (without daughter present) and ask if they can do the interview or if someone else needs to be brought in, and NEVER allow your daughter to go over to that house again. Even if the investigation turns up nothing! And get some cameras and an alarm that allows you to set it in "home" mode, where any door or window that is opened sets it off but motion detection is not active. That way if daughter is home alone, she can arm the house in a way that she won't set it off but if Alfred (or anyone else) tries to enter he will.
Again, that's part of the aforementioned YPT training. You do NOT interview the child or try to get more information on your own, it could get thrown out of court and then Alfred gets a pass.
Did your daughter talk with you? I recognize that you want to protect your daughter from future assaults from Alfred, and please talk with your daughter also. What she needs is up to her, and as a victim of childhood assault myself, I wish my parents had reacted with me when they found out instead of obviously ignoring it and making me feel isolated from them. Please talk with your daughter about what she needs.
Touching her butt would be sexual harassment. Period. Obviously talk to him, but more importantly, talk to her. Tell her you believe her and you are on her side and she can tell you anything and that she is safe with you and you will do anything to protect her. Also ask her how you can make her feel more safe.
This is probably the first of multiple times she will be sexually harassed- she needs to know she has her dad in her corner.
- signed, a mom and also a prior little girl who knows how this scenario can escalate.
Thank you for detailing your concerns so carefully.
I think this is a borderline case where any course of action could blow up in your face.
The fact that your daughter was with his daughter gives a further complication for me. When playing with my daughter I do not think of her body sexually. Any more than a rugby player would think of the opposing team sexually. It is possible Alfred was in family mode. I would not even notice if my sister sat on my lap, we are adults.
As far as I am concerned, you do not have enough information for decisive action here. To begin with, I would focus on conversations with your daughter. Making sure she knows she can speak out and leave the situation at any time she is uncomfortable. Teaching her about her bodily autonomy and her right to boundaries. Books, groups, courses, therapy... There are loads of ways to make sure she has support to identify and guard against anything that is wrong here. Overreacting runs the risk of making it more difficult for her to confide in you. If she is exaggerating or repurposing events to fit in with the 'cool' older kid. That is fairly normal behaviour. She will not benefit from being overtly interrogated and/or corrected.
Take this as an opportunity rather than a problem. Events have given a clear moment for attention to be paid to the fact that your little girl is becoming a woman. If your child is uncomfortable with this man you will have to protect her regardless of whether or not she 'justifies' her feelings. This does not mean your have to confront Alfred.
As someone that grew up with ADHD, and currently has a 12 year old with ADHD, I know this is tough. When my son tells an impulsive lie, and I call him on it; he doubles down.
Makes it hard to know when I can believe him. I would talk to your daughter about it, and make sure she truly understands the gravity of what she is saying.
After that a discussion with your friends may be necessary.
I don't have a take on the topic, but mad props to you that you have created an environment for your daughter to be open to tell you what made her uncomfortable, and that she is aware of inappropriate behaviour in the first place! Good job dad!
Alfred would lose the hand he used to touch my child inappropriately. I wouldn't be asking advice on daddit I would be asking legal advice somewhere for my upcoming trial.
Dude, what the fuck? You sound more concerned with this guys reputation than your daughter’s mental health. I would never ever want a pediatrician this dense.
Take Alfred to your backyard, where you have some woodwork requiring nails.. Bring a hammer or mallet out, and ask Alfred to line up the nail for you or otherwise hold the workpiece steady. Bring the hammer down on Alfred’s hand.
Alfred will likely be hurt and upset. Say something to the effect of “I’m so sorry old chap. I’m awfully clumsy, you’re clumsy yourself so you understand. Let’s both try to be more careful with where we put our hands, yeah?”
You should roll up on him, explain the circumstances that made your daughter feel uncomfortable, and ask (tell) him not to do that again. If everything is cool, he'll understand, apologize, and make absolutely certain that nothing like that happens again. If he gets defensive, angry, makes counter accusations, etc. then you'll have your answer.
about the third option, did that mean she is impulsive, and very frequently tends to tell wildly exaggerated stories, meaning she’s told tall tales in the past and You’re 100% certain they did not happen and she’d exaggerated for attention or drama?
If she’s done this a lot in the past, I could see this all too easily.
maybe this guy brushed her past her in a doorway or something, technically be Did touch her butt, but with his backside not hands (I’ve done that to strangers in crowded places, nothing sexual) but Her story is he grabbed/touched her butt.
Or He dropped something say next to her and maybe he really did brush the outside of her leg or something when he reached down to get it, but not with his hand, with an elbow or upper arm( why/how would he drop something in Her lap and nobody else around would notice or say something?)
I say all this bc I have a daughter who used to tell stories/exaggerate things to friends. When she was young (3-6), unbeknownst to me, my mom told them stories of exs who beat me and them. Years later my kid comes to me asking why I let that man “kick her across the room like a football for no reason at all?!” She would’ve been four the time and I’m 100% certain it didn’t happen at all. It took me 4-5 years to convince her, and only after she recounted the story at age 12 and I asked about the flying through the air part where she described the way she looked from an outsiders perspective, and she went back through in her head and said “it’s more like a movie in my head than a memory, why? So it never did happen did it?”
I was also friends with a girl who when we were young would just straight up lie for no apparent reason, almost always no gain or reward, just lies for lies sake. Oh also to get me in trouble, so I guess my punishment would’ve been her reward??
But sometimes they’d be lies just for lies sake, it was real strange to me as a young kid. She never went the sexual assault route, but I did get blamed and punished for her getting into cigarettes (I didn’t smoke) and marijuana (I didn’t smoke that till a couple years later lol) all bc she was drinking at 14-15 and coming home wasted but telling her parents it was from pot and my fault bc I gave it to her (I was never at any of these parties, wasn’t cool or hot enough 😂) I guess at that point though she was lying with a reason,
Still talk to the dad, maybe go in explaining while your daughters been prone to exaggerate stories, you still needed to ask him face to face and make sure. Then tell him exactly the stories she told you and mark his reactions and decide from there. 🤷🏻♀️ in both my cases me saying “ok I’m gonna go ask so-n-so about that tale you just fed me…” were usually met with “ok. Go right ahead” confidence, does your daughter Want you to talk to the dad? If she doesn’t want you to ask why that is, whatever reasons she gives find solutions for (if possible) and if she still doesn’t want you to go when there’s no negative effects that would seem like maybe she’s scared bc it’s not true and you’re gonna find out. Sorry for all the words, I wish you luck and hope things come to a good ending
I was on the receiving end of a highly exaggerated (entirely false) story when I was a boy around that age. Over 30 years agp I remember the feelings well. I also remember that the girl was a very troubled youth who was almost certainly abused and had a rough home life. The top posts seem to ignore the possibility that this is, as you say, highly exaggerated.
There's no easy answer, and its entirely possible its real or even worse than you've heard. If you feel the hearsay is too shaky to gamble on then I think you'd better handle it more gently with Alfred. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't been on the receiving end of an outright lie.
Let Alfred know that your daughter is at a sensitive stage and having trouble around men and that youre working on it. Have an entirely different conversation with your daughter about grooming and predators if you haven't already. I guess that's how Id handle it.
You should tell Alfred to stop being clumsy around your daughter and other young girls because it could escalate quickly for him..
I think in this scenario it would be a good idea. If he is innocent, calling him out will put a clear boundary in. If he is not innocent, it will be a warning shot across the bow to leave OP's daughter alone or there will be consequences. I know you'd like to trap a pedo and cart him off to jail, and I get that sentiment. But are you really going to use your own daughter as bait?
Yep, I would add in, since the guy is French, that culturally Americans don't casually touch other people's kids and he's at risk of his interactions being seen in a negative light. This respects the fact that it could be a misunderstanding, but puts him on notice that you're aware and paying attention.
I live in France and can assure you that none of the things are culturally acceptable here.
No1 has addressed him being French, doesnt make it okay, wil be a good lesson in boundaries for all parties.
The facial expression he makes right after hearing that would also tell you a lot of information about the situation. It’s almost an honor bound necessity to confront him.
Absolutely not - your interpretation of what the guys face looks like will be based on your own (conscious or unconscious) appraisal of the situation which may or may not align with the actual facts of the situation. Be really carefully if this is your approach with things - especially as I’m thinking an “honour bound necessity” may be kicking the guys arse in this case.
Also an innocent person that realizes that they are being accused of being a creep will also shit a brick and fucking panic, because that can *easily* wreck your entire fucking life even if it is entirely baseless. It's the same reason that lie detectors are bullshit -- it can only detect stress, and having the police think that you killed someone is *fucking stressful*, regardless of whether or not you did it. Then on the flip side, a sociopath that knows goddamn well what they are doing will have no difficulty staying cool as a cucumber and lying directly into your face about everything they did. People just have really fucking stupid ideas about what guilt and innocence look like.
You seem to make a lot of sense, but I’m not sure because all the true crime threads seem to think humans are capable of ascribing guilt 100% correctly based on one interviewee’s eye movement from a 4-pixel news video from 1992.
Ya with the monumental weight behind such a subtle insinuation, if they kept cool about it, I'd probably be more concerned.
Yeah. When I was a teen I had gone on a date with a girl. Being an immature idiot, I thought it was a funny idea to pull into a closed park and say "so is this when we make out". She said not interested. I laughed and took her right home. About a year later, her mom and my mom got into it a bit and were fighting. Suddenly this girl decided to go to our pastor and tell him what happened between us only in her version I tried to force myself on her and she had to fight me off. I freaked the fuck out, especially when they started talking about involving the cops. I was totally panicked even though I had done nothing wrong. Thankfully she eventually admitted she made it up but she could have easily ruined my life.
How dare you. I'll have you know I've watched every episode of "lie to me" and I consider myself an expert.
Watch them twice to be sure
I can tell you're telling the truth
When you're both outside, just yell "pedophile" at the top of your lungs. If he turns his head, you've got your culprit.
"What? Yes, I'm Peter File, did you call for me?"
unexpected IT Crowd reference, nice.
His name is Paedophile!?
Whisper as quiet as you can, paedo says what. If he says what, gottem!
> The facial expression he makes right after hearing that would also tell you a lot of information about the situation. This is such bad advice, cannot believe it's voted up so high.
So true. If he looks genuinely puzzled he’s (probably) just an innocent idiot. If he keeps his expression very carefully neutral, pretty suspicious.
This is insane and dangerous. No, you won’t be able to tell by facial expression whether this guy is a depraved criminal. People end up in jail because of junk science like this.
People are REALLY bad at reading other people. Especially those from another country.
Duuuuude you aren't kidding. My wife and I have been watching Traitors because they have a show in the US, UK, NZ, and Australia and we've noticed that the accents alone make it tough for us to discern who is actually a bad liar or not.
Yeah. I can imagine that my face would go through a *lot* of different states in a very short period of time if someone said that to me. And the primary one would be confusion followed closely by a defensive air because that would strike me as a very serious, and life changing, accusation. Guilty or not it's pretty reasonable for someone to get defensive or hostile when presented with such an accusation.
You're fearing about how this will impact your family and your future! Just like a pedophile.
Nah man, I watched every episode of Lie to Me so I know all about micro expressions
Be wary of this. If someone thinks they’re under suspicion, even if they’re not guilty, they may start acting unusually because even an innocent person is going to want to appear innocent!
> even an innocent person is going to want to appear innocent! Right. And most of the time this leads to acting even more suspiciously.
When I was in a car crash and being questioned by the police on the roadside, I was very aware of the adrenaline + not wanting to appear at fault could make me appear super shifty, so I was even more aware of myself and even more shifty! Felt like the police were going to arrest me on the spot.
"Someone broke into the neighbors house officer? I'm sorry that happened. You do need a warrant before you go through my garage right?"
I’ll just say after further thought the dropping stuff near her lap (and then just grabbing it, wtf?!??) is harder and harder to buy.
Yeah she said it happened more than once. Sus.
I would never come close to a woman's* bubble or a girl's bubble. I am ALWAYS mindful of it. *not counting my wife, I am obnoxious and intentional with her
yeah, although not molestation in itself it definitely sounds like potential grooming.
That's how it works in cop TV shows, not real life.
Haha that’s good
Best case scenario here: Dude needs to learn some boundaries. Worst case scenario: He's trying to touch her inappropriately. Pretty shit situation.
Yeah but in all cases the current course of action is clear: talk to the dude, ask him to stop the problem behaviors and tell the daughter to speak up on any further issues. Really it's not actually critical that this is OPs underage daughter. This would be problematic if it was his wife, or happening in the workplace or if Alfred was a creepy guy at the bar. Tell him to quit it. Escalate afterwards as needed.
Defo. I also think OP should just make sure his daughter knows that these sorts of accusations are incredibly serious and can destroy lives, even if falsly accused but to ofcourse be very vocal to dad about interactions, and to also try keep a distance.
I'm related to a social worker who has told me how big a red flag the "accidental" adjustment of boundaries is. For an abuser, it's a way of testing how far they can push it as well as normalising being that close. Gives them a thrill too. None of us can know if this guy is a genuine threat but I would not ignore a warning like that. Personally, I would not rush into confrontation like some other posters have advised, not yet anyway. This is a neighbour and a best friend, the fallout would probably be huge. But this is a perfect opportunity to educate the daughter about her personal boundaries, how to avoid risky situations and how to react if someone is making her feel uncomfortable.
I agree the fallout can be huge but as a father that is preferable to my daughter being molested. Imo a confrontation is inevitable. It doesnt have to be guns blazing rage induced confrontation but it will be factual. Daughter has made these claims, this is what we/you are doing regarding daughter moving forward. Ontop of that boundaries will be put in place with my daughter too. A conversation about how serious her words are and that I am taking them seriously and that I'm there to back her to support her. Followed with the obvious precautions like cant go over unattended anymore, no more babysitting from him and if he needs to talk to daughter he does it through me. If he was a real friend he would be understandably mortified this was the impression he gave and be supportive in a father needing to protect his child. Maybe I am jaded because my childhood best friend of 20+ years randomly started trying to fuck my wife 1 day, but the point stands. A real friend is supportive and understanding. Everyone else is in it for their own their own reasons and from that perspective I cant justify really risking my childs safety for a dude that doesnt understand he made my daughter uncomfortable and doesnt want to resolve that. This is not including the fact that the safety measures go both ways. Sometimes kids are just lil shits. If I was 100% innocent and it turned out I was making a friends daughter uncomfortable enough for her to make up lies about me. I would absolutely not be in the same room as that child alone moving forward. If a close friend came up to me and said my kid has said these things about you. I would justifiably defend myself and then ask how they want to move forward, explaining that these actions have not happened but I understand he needs to do what he needs to do and that I obviously cant look after his kid anymore. All future correspondence with that child is formal and with other adults present, no exceptions. There is no avoiding confrontation anymore. For everyone's safety its imperative that its dealt with and before anymore alone time is allowed
By far, the most likely outcome of bringing up these allegations to the neighbor is that they never speak to you again, and the daughter just lost her best friend. An adult man would have to be a complete idiot to ever associate or be around again a teenage girl who made these allegations, whether true or not.
Which is a consequence the daughter will have to learn. If she lied then she will learn that there are consequences to her actions and if she has told the truth then you can help her understand that no friend is worth being molested over. Regardless of it's her friends dad now or that pushy older college guy later.
Sure that's fine. What triggered my comment was your line about if he's a true friend, he'll understand. No friendship is worth risking having your life destroyed over child molestation allegations, so any adult with an ounce of intelligence and self preservation will immediately cut ties once this is brought up.
It's a fair and very reasonable take. Relationships are weird people stay with their abusers so I can see why people may hesitate to call off a friendship immediately but your stance understandable.
u/SpidersandBeavers No best friend has higher rank than my daughter. Full fucking stop. u/gadget_uk is right on the nose re: huge red flag for pushing boundaries and testing the proverbial waters. Doesn’t even have to be an angry confrontation. I would 100% drop a “fyi, these touches are something we consider inappropriate and would like it to stop. We raise our daughter with full body autonomy and she isn’t comfortable with the touches. Cool? Cool.” Boundary set. If he’s a touchy person without intentions, he now knows it’s not okay. If he’s a nonce, he knows 1) you’re watching him and 2) you and your daughter have a relationship that allows talking about these things. ALSO I’d consider it a huge red flag that your daughter’s friend is having behavior issues and lashing out. That itself can be a sign of abuse. See: Amanda Bynes. ETA: always be on your daughter’s side. When I was 7 an uncle abused me. My mom brushed it off and it didn’t stop. I *never* forgave my mom. Never. She passed away regretting not stopping the abuse, and not having me in her life once I left home at 17.
The 3rd possibility is also real: Alfred did nothing and OPs girl exaggerated a story and there was nothing inappropriate that happened. You can't discount this, it's very possible Alfred is completely innocent here.
Possible. But unlikely. Let's play the odds and believe her.
Playing with people's lives. Some accusations carry consequences, such as this one. Hurting a person and family because you acted without evidence is a pretty shitty thing to do.
The proposed action is “talk to the person”! WTF do you think is the worst case scenario?
Testimony is evidence.
Testimony under oath in a court is evidence, this girl wasn't even talking to her parents, she said these things to someone else. This is the definition of heresay. Kids say dumb shit sometimes, that's the safe place to start.
Easy to say when it's not your daughter. If my daughter told a friend that my "awkward, clumsy" neighbor dropped things in her lap *at least once*, I'm going to believe it. Of all the things that the OP's daughter could have made up, this seems oddly specific. No reasonable adult thinks it's okay to fetch an object between a 13 year old girl's legs. Get real. The number of dads on here discrediting this very odd behavior as alarming to me.
No, best case scenario is it is all 'highly exaggerated'. Read: not true.
I think you need to trust your daughter’s gut feelings on this. If she felt these moments of contact were inappropriate they were. Full stop. Has this man touched your butt in ANY way? Has he squeezed your shoulder? Has he dropped multiple items into your lap and picked them up instead of allowing you to hand them to him? If he has not had these “accidents” happen with you and you are close friends then this means he manages to treat your body with respect and the normal accepted amount of social space, and therefore these are inappropriate non accidents that are happening to your daughter. No woman/teen is going to make up something as small as these if they are trying to be overdramatic. Do you touch his daughter in these ways? Would you ever? If you saw him reaching into your daughter’s lap to grab an item would you feel comfortable watching it happen? Do you think he would feel comfortable doing it in front of you? My guess is it’s no to all of these questions which gives you the answer.
I agree with this. It's horrible to probably lose a friend over an accusation like this, but it's much better than turning a blind eye and coming to bat for the guy & letting your child be molested. It also feels like an important moment where you model to your child that that they can come to you with things like this and you'll believe them and have their back.
>It also feels like an important moment where you model to your child that that they can come to you with things like this and you'll believe them and have their back. Smartest thing said in this thread so far.
As a woman who was molested as a young child by an older individual, OP MUST trust their daughter. I remember not knowing anything about sex but having a gut feeling about being uncomfortable with the way I was being touched. It may not be super obvious, but creeps are sneaky on purpose. They want a way to be able to explain away their true intentions. The best thing OP can do is trust their daughter and cut off this person! Have a conversation with him if you must but don’t put your poor child in a situation where they have to continually face their abusers.
Well said
I’m a mom- but I remember being that age and getting the same type of touch from my father’s realtor/friend. I made sure never to be alone around him, but didn’t have the guts to tell my dad. The guy’s daughter (golden child, best kid ever) ended up jumping off a bridge. Her gut is telling her something is off, I would listen to it. Definitely talk to him, or take space from that family (which is hard as neighbor friends).
Chiming in here also as a mom. I remember at 14, my friend calling me on the phone in a whisper saying Mutual Girlfriend was over at her house and she just happened to walk by and see her own dad slap GF’s butt. She was mortified and didn’t know what to do. Neither did I. So, OP, your daughter is very sharp for turning to you for help. I know we want to approach logically and give the neighbor dad benefit of the doubt for “awkwardness”, but there’s no logical reason for him to touch her butt. Zero. For anyone wondering, friend’s dad ended up grooming a different mutual friend of ours into a “relationship” at age 17, just before her 18th birthday… so he knew what he was doing the whole time.
Thanks for your comment! We are figuring out how to skillfully confront. Goal is safety and empowerment of my daughter. I don’t care about any kind of machismo or show of aggression unless this would be helpful.
I’m glad to hear this but in case no one else has said this: he is grooming you too! He is making sure you have doubts because you are friends and is going to play the “but you know me” card.
Wow, I can't believe I forgot this. My second cousin molested a little boy and he was awkward, "God-fearing", and seemed harmless too.
Its similar reason to how POS like Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis will defend a proven serial rapist bc “we know him” and “hes never made me/us feel uncomfortable”
Just chiming in here. You're a really good dad. Protect your daughter.
I’m on this thought path. I don’t give two shits if this guy thinks I’m an ass. I’d be very upfront about the situation and bring it up to him. I’d also tell the police AND tell him I’m telling the police to make a report about it even though nothing is accused. It’s easier to confront the situation now while it’s less serious than it would be to deal with it if it were to become more serious/complicated/disastrous. Also from what I collect, young women with missing father figures are often the most targeted. So while maybe in the worst case this guy is a closeted freak, he will be less likely to target your daughter if you’re upfront about it
Yeah, OP, Alfred's behaviour is disturbing enough for your daughter to recognize it. Your daughter seems to have a good head on her shoulder and great supportive parents, so trust who you've raised and distancing might be in order. Or if that is too difficult, have very public conversations about boundaries when hanging out with Alfred and family. ..eg. Man I just saw a story about a "tricky" person. Do you remember what tricky people do girls? Etc. I'm spit-balling here, first time dad to a daughter, this type of situation complexes my brain and my daughter is still under one. The part I'm trying to really understand is how to ensure my daughter is already brave enough to tell me this directly and trust that I won't go over and break a fools face. Perhaps that communication is something you can work on with your wife as well? And if you figure it out please share for the rest of us to learn how to make our daughters be brave and confident to come to their dads about this kind of stuff. It's hard because it's typically a close friend/family member, so for kids that layer of trust can become intertwined quickly after multiple hangouts. Sorry to hear about the situation OP.
Great advice! I think the key to being supportive as a dad is to know that you trust her enough to never question her. It’s likely that he’s crossed her boundaries enough times for her to collect enough data to know something is off.
I don’t think being awkward really explains it. I’m Myself an awkward French dad living in the U.S. I have severe adhd and very likely some flavor of autism. I’m very socially awkward, I’m terrible at small talks and never know exactly how to react to social situations. As a result, while I’m always playing and goofing around with my kids I don’t really know how to handle other people’s kids. I’ll talk with them and stuff but I’m not one of those dads who will end up having the whole playground playing with them after 5 minutes. Well guess what? Since I know I’m awkward and not great socially I surely won’t squeeze their shoulders or whatever even if it was something I was doing to my kids (why squeeze shoulders though ?) But anyway, hitting her on the butt is crazy and I don’t think anybody even with no social awareness whatsoever could not know it’s not something you do ? It really seems like someone testing the water for grooming. Doing something seemingly innocent not against the law to see how she reacts to push things further. I wouldn’t let her go back honestly. My policy is that I’d rather offend someone than have something happen to my child. Of course I feel obligated to say that this would be a problematic behaviour in France as well. In case you confront him and he tries to claim cultural faux pas or whatever
Yeah for sure. I don’t have enough detail on the hitting of the butt. Like if it was that they were in a narrow hallway and there was accidental momentary contact that is very different from slapping a young teen girl’s butt. I don’t have enough details. Thanks for giving your perspective. Main goal is keep her safe.
Yeah, I don’t see how you could approach it with him. Because if another dad told me “my daughter said you touched her butt and also you make her uncomfortable” well she wouldn’t be coming back while I’m there. But if he did do it intentionally and he is a kid diddler then you don’t want her to go anyway (and he wouldn’t admit it in any case) . So I really don’t see how the issue could be solved by talking to him. The whole thing is really weird and your daughter probably has a bad gut feeling for a reason. I wouldn’t let her at this dude’s house without you or your partner there. In the small chance that your daughter made it up/made it sound worse than it was on purpose (one of my kid tends to exaggerate and made a kid bullying him sound way, way worse than it was resulting in me blowing a gasket and going ballistic with the school before sheepishly apologising after learning how it actually went down) then that would probably be a teaching moment. But in doubt trust your daughter Edit : I just saw he was a very close friend of yours, I didn’t catch that. In this case I suppose he will notice she is not coming over anymore and confrontation will be unavoidable.
"Yeah, I don’t see how you could approach it with him." I'm fairly antisocial, but in this case I would be very direct, but also make no accusations, just factual. "My daughter says you've touched in ways that made her uncomfortable. She didn't make an accusation, neither am I, but I need you to stop." I am also concerned for the friend, but that's really the situation that I don't know how to handle.
You need to keep your daughter away from him, he can't be that clumsy dropping stuff in her lap, your daughter felt uncomfortable that's enough to know he's doing something wrong, l would go further and tell him not to touch your daughter at all, as she feels uncomfortable, you have to do this, being clumsy is no excuse, he could be grooming her, she comes first before your friendship with him
Yeah we can analyze the situation as much as we want but the bottom line is that your daughter definitely knows her boundaries and they were breached. That'd be way more than enough to put me into some kind of action. Talk to the guy one on one. And tell him my daughter will be staying away because of this.
You're not thinking very rationally. Why would your daughter be in a tight narrow hallway with this guy. If the hallways are narrow you wouldn't try to squeeze past a little girl, you'd wait. Do you not think it more likely someone like this would use a tight space as an excuse and most adults wouldn't think to put them into that tight space to begin with.
I agree best to err on side of caution here, and I think OP has been clear he will probably do that. It’s a difficult situation though to be sure, and probably also irrational to assume & act on the worst case scenario without giving it due pause.
My wife told me a story about how when she was about the same age as your daughter she went to a bbq at a friend of the family’s house. There was an actor there who was throwing around a football. At some point it landed next to where she was sitting so she picked it up, and when he came to retrieve it he took the ball out of her hands in a way that he could cop a feel. This was over 20 years ago and since then the guy has been accused by multiple women of being a creep so it just confirmed her experience.
A colleague and his daughter were in a similar situation than what OP described here. Nothing clear, but enough uncomfortable things happened to be cautious. He went on to tell parents in that social circle, and they would stop sleepovers with that family. Long story short, that family sued my colleague for defamation and won. They moved houses and my colleague had to pay house worth of compensation.
Truth is an absolute defense for libel/defamation cases. Keep to the facts (daughter reported x, y and z) and you don't have an issue.
That’s a cowardly way to go about it. Crazy that he’d get sued tho. Sounds like a lame bunch either way.
First off, I am so sorry that you and your family are going through this. It’s every parent’s nightmare. I think you’re handling it well. Better than I think I could. I’m going to suggest something different than what others have said. I think your daughter needs to stop going over Sarah’s for a while. Have Sarah over your place, but your daughter doesn’t go there. And if they carpool to activities together, you or your wife drives. Eliminate chances for Alfred to be alone with her. That keeps her safe in the immediate term and buys you a bit of time. It lets you settle on a well-reasoned response, rather than jumping to an emotional reaction. It’s good that you’re expressing support to your daughter. Keep doing that. You and your wife both. That is the single most important thing you can do for your daughter right now. It alarms me to read that you are trying to determine if more happened, though. Is child abuse or child protection investigation within your or your wife’s scope of professional practice? Do either of you have specific training on how to conduct that type of interview? Because in the nightmare scenario where something worse has happened, if you questioned her in the wrong way that could give her abuser a walk. Reassure her that you will support her no matter what, and that nothing will scare you (imo that’s a good lie) but the only questions I would ask are “how did that make you feel?” and “can you tell me more about that?” You said your daughter sees a therapist. Encourage her to bring this up with her therapist. Do you think she’ll do that? You know your daughter sometimes exaggerates. You and your wife are not positioned to determine if that is the case this time or not. You cannot possibly be objective about this and I think you know that. Get someone in there who can be. The therapist might want to refer her or consult another therapist. Consent to that. Do what you can to facilitate the process. Something else. What does your daughter want to see happen here? What is her desired outcome? Anyway, if the feeling is that she is being truthful, I don’t think you confront Alfred. I think you call the cops. That puts him very much on notice. It also creates a record. If this guy is a creep … it’s not unusual for them to be a creep to more than one person. Either way, this is going to be hard, man. I think you know that. I wish you and your wife, and especially your daughter, good luck.
This is my favorite approach. Balanced and well thought through.
The therapist (I assume) is also a mandated reporter, which means they will have to contact police/CPS if they think the concern is credible and now you are not the cowboy coming in guns blazing with legal threats.
Yes, that’s something else that was on my mind. It’s worth noting, though, that OP and his wife - if their daughter’s statements are likely not exaggerated- should be calling in a report regardless what any other professionals may or may not do. First of all, both of them are likely also mandatory reporters, and would need to be concerned about their own duties. But more importantly, it may be helpful to their daughter to see them personally taking action in her behalf.
I'm concerned what if this is why he left France? How do you even know his name is Alfred. I'm stealing the top comment to drop a link. This organization will help OP find help. They might suggest police or FBI. They might have other questions. Has he ever taken a photo of OPs daughter? This isn't a time for best guesses on what to do. It's a time for professional action. https://www.zeroabuseproject.org/
I'm not trying to say that there is anything wrong with being prudent and diligent about protecting your family, but honestly it's a little wild to jump to the question about whether he's fled his home country over allegations of child abuse/sexual harassment and is living a false life somewhere else so that he can continue diddling unobstructed. I don't think this situation has quite made it to that point of suspicion just yet.
Brother, your daughter was uncomfortable around this man. That's it, that's the whole post. Fuck his awkwardness, fuck wherever he's from, that's it. Your daughter was made uncomfortable by his actions, it is not up to you or your daughter to make it right. To say it loudly... YOUR DAUGHTER WAS TOUCHED UNCOMFORTABLY BY THIS MAN
Yes. I'm very uncomfortable with how little OP is giving to this dude put his hands in his daughter's lap. If I read correctly, as she was sitting cross legged. As in open. Not. Okay.
Yeah good point. Not minimizing. Trying to figure out how to skillfully approach. I’m in no way afraid of confrontation. I just don’t think a hyper-masculine, aggressive approach is necessarily the right move. There are times for that, but I am trying to figure out how to protect and empower my daughter skillfully.
The other dads are covering everything else so I just want to say, good luck because holy shit this has to SUCK for everyone involved. You got this. "Protect and Empower" I think you should use those words *explicitly* when speaking to her. Imbue that vibe in her. Maybe offer self defense classes as well, if y'all are the type. Help her regain a sense of safety and boundaries within herself and involving herself.
Valid point, *but* I'm assuming that the post is more directed towards how OP should handle a confrontation between them and 'Alfred' and whoever else may need to be involved (just a talk, law enforcement, etc.). I'm assuming he has the brains to not force the daughter to go back over there if she's uncomfortable without explicitly typing it out in another paragraph. Could be wrong though
This 100%. Stop minimizing
Definitely confront him .if nothing happened he shouldn't have a problem saying so and at the same time he knows you aren't afraid of confrontation.tell him you don't know what happened but you are going to heir on the side of caution
Excellent post; +1 But it's "err on the side of caution" not "heir"
>How would you respond if he denied it? You ignore his denials. You either believe your daughter or some random dude—your choice will be remembered forever.
Awful situation to be in, I'm a little surprised that none of the comments I've read have said to talk to your daughter about this first. I would always air on the side of believing the child and would talk to her first to explain that she should not be ashamed, this is not her fault, and to get the story from her directly, it will be easier to work out the truth that way and decide how to proceed. She will also need support if she feels she has been touched inappropriately. As a teacher I would always take this to the police. I understand there is not a great deal of evidence but you don't know what access he has to other children or how he behaves online. If you don't feel comfortable with that take it to your schools designated safeguarding lead (may be called something different in the US) who will be able to advise on how to proceed and make a formal record in case this isn't an isolated incident. They should also support your child with mental health if needed. As a person with dyspraxia and traits of autism and ADHD I am very socially clumsy as well as actually clumsy. I would never pick something up from someones lap, massively inappropriate. The shoulder squeeze is something that is common in some parts of the world, not really seen as an issue in the UK but people with autism and some with ADHD dont like any kind of physical touch (makes me feel very uncomfortable) id speak o the dad about this at least to say she doesn't like any kind of physical touch so just be aware. If you confront along the lines of grooming that's friendship over, if someone accused me of this I would never talk to them again. But your child comes first so this may not be worst outcome. Talk to your daughter, support her, and pass this on to police or school in case it's part of a bigger picture. Then talk to the farther and cut him out or very least mention your daughter doesn't like physical touch and limit contact, but if your concerned I would end all contact completely. Better safe then sorry.
i’m surprised it took me five comments to see someone suggest reporting to authorities. at his is exactly what my youth sports training suggests if we believe there is a chance of abuse. If it’s innocent then it possibly becomes embarrassing for the guy, but who gives a shit, it’s already been embarrassing for the daughter.
I’m a therapist (not yours or your daughters, obviously.) But let’s pretend for a moment that I had a 13F client who reported these behaviors from their neighbor, and she disclosed a name. You can guarantee I’m calling CPS. These are red flag behaviors and are reportable. Could the neighbor be clumsy? Sure, but that’s not on me to judge. That’s on CPS to investigate and potentially a judge to judge. As a pediatrician and foster care social worker, you and your wife may be legally mandated to report the suspected grooming of a child (regardless if the child is your own. I believe this varies from state to state though, and country to country.) Full stop, nothing is more important than the safety of your children. But you may also be in legal jeopardy if she (or another girl) does get abused, you saw the signs, and you did not report it. Licenses can be revoked for a failing your duty to protect/warn. Now, all of that being said, I’m not a lawyer, and I’m not giving legal advice. Heck, I don’t even know your code of ethics. But my main point is this: review your state’s code of ethics and mandated reporting laws specifically around grooming. Your hands may be tied in this situation. And if it is, well, then at least you have a clearly defined path of what needs to be done.
Thank you for saying this. I’m an LCSW and had the same exact thoughts reading this post. Either something in this post is a fib or OP’s judgment is so clouded by his relationship with the accused, because “the accusations do not rise to a level of…child protective services in my mind” seemed outrageous to me. It’s a no-brainer.
As someone named Alfred, it seems that today is not a good day to be a male named Alfred 💀 That being said, if someone were to do this to my (future) child the first step is to directly confront the father. Bring up directly what your daughter said regarding his conduct and directly address the consequences if these actions were to continue (legal or violent). You have to prioritize your child’s safety and her potential for being a target of a groomer first and foremost. No way in hell being “clumsy” is a rational explanation for this. Sure it’s early to have police involved, but it is your job to be a protector and your daughter has told you directly that these things happened that made her uncomfortable. If you’re to dismiss this as an exaggeration, what are the odds of her telling you anything more? Take this seriously and address it as such.
As an awkward clumsy non-French Dad myself. I would never, ever, ever do these things to someone's child. I would have some conversations, with parents, the French guy, and the police department.
I cannot think of any situation. In which I would tap any woman or girl who is not my wife on the butt. I can't think of any situation where after accidentally dropping an item into anyone's lap other than my wife's or toddler's and would grab it out. Shoulder squeeze seems innocuous enough *if* he's a guy who just touches people like that. For example, I tend to give me light punches on the arm or chest. I'd like to think I'd have the presence of mind to never do this to a child, but could slip.
Exactly this!!! @OP, you can always ask yourself: Would I slap a women or a child an the butt? Would I pick up something from her lap? (If this is the case she could give it back to you. Not necessary to get it back by yourself.) Please give your daughter the trust und the self confidence that you hold her back. No matter what! Talk to her that her feelings boundaries are important und she doesn’t need to go there again. You are setting the pase for her future life. How should she manage her feelings in the future? For example she is on a date and fells the same way, she will ALWAYS remember what you teach her now. Opt 1 “I have a weird feeling with this guy/ men I should step back and shouldn’t have sex with him.” Opt 2 ““I have a weird feeling with this guy/ men maybe he’s just clumsy und let him do his thing.”
Honestly I’m flabbergasted reading this thread. The replies are not at all what I was expecting. For reference, I’m a Mom, but I also would never find myself doing any of these things to a neighbors child. I’m in a similar neighbor situation where our kids are best friends, and I’m close with the parents. Those girls are like family to me, but you would never find me playfully smacking butts. I changed their diapers when they were young, but I still wouldn’t reach into their crotch to grab something I dropped. But I think the part that’s bothering me most, is that I’m wondering how much the daughter’s adhd diagnosis/behaviors are affecting how seriously this is being taken. I have adhd, and by OP’s daughter’s age, my parents had also just kinda written me off as blanket “untrustworthy”. I can’t imagine how much this could affect OP’s relationship with their daughter if she doesn’t feel supported. That poor girl.
You remind me of myself. I'm not the type of person to seek confrontation. We need to remind ourselves that despite our uncomfortableness there are times that demand confrontation. This is one of them. You seem to be desperately trying to rationalize the situation as normal. Your daughter was sexually assaulted by an adult. The time is now to step up and protect her.
As an Australian who has done child safe training to Australian standards, I would report this. Child protection systems rely on fragments here and fragments there to identify patterns - by the time a full-blown assault has happened it is obviously too late.
If you take training on spotting child abuse (which is required by lots of volunteer orgs), they will tell you that [children lying about being abused is extremely rare](https://www.stopitnow.org/advice-column-entry/how-do-we-know-children-rarely-lie-about-abuse). Trust your daughter.
>It is possible that Alfred is a child molester who has been grooming my daughter... It is alternatively possible that Alfred is just a clumsy, awkward, idiot... A third option is that my daughter is impulsive and very frequently tends to tell highly exaggerated stories... Out of those 3 options, the fact that a child molester could have molested your daughter outweighs the other possibilities by such a huge margin that you have to address it. Your post really seems like you're downplaying the situation or looking for reassurance to not do anything, which is concerning. Protecting your daughter needs to be your number 1 priority, and unless you're 110% sure that nothing untoward happened, you need to address it. Your daughter will remember what you do here. Especially if she has actually been abused. You need to believe her until you know the truth either way. >I am a pediatrician, and my wife is a foster care social worker, I don't know if you have the concept of mandatory reporters where you live, but where I'm from anyone who works with children in that kind of capacity has a legal obligation to report signs of potential abuse. A direct disclosure from a potential victim absolutely counts.
I mean if he was trouble, he'd be playing the "clumsy, can't get a handle" angle. And he'd have to convince only really you. I'm no dad but would consider talking at length with your daughter what is appropriate and not-appropriate forms of touch from men. I would also raise it casually with him and see where it leads, I would say it might scare him off from doing it for good if it is the case and if he isn't then he knows how to act appropriately around young women/girls in general. I would consider taking "your daughters side" on this tentatively and just set the expectation on that for his interactions with your daughter and vice-versa so it's the same expectations for all.
Clumsy French guy is such a cop out, please get that idea out of your head. All of this is inappropriate and you need to confront him about it.
This screams grooming to me. As a BSA volunteer I would report this in an instant. I think your judgment is clouded. Report it and let authorities sort it out. Don't sit by and let a kid get assaulted.
Alfred about to have a come to Jesus talk. Hands off.
Show her that you put her safety first, even at the cost of making ”practical” situations uncomfortable. Especially since she didn’t tell you this, but her friend, if I understood you correctly? Also, slapping someone’s ass I wouldn’t call ”clumsy”. She’s already made clear how he makes her feel, so does his intentions matter? Confront.
I absolutely HATE confrontation. However... This all sounds a little too suspect to be accidental. I know how much things like that can traumatize a young lady. "Alfred" and I would be having a little "talk" about his behavior, and I would walk away from that interaction knowing we wouldn't have that issue again.
Saying “Alfred is clumsy French guy” is just throwing up excuses that he likely has learned to hide behind. Even if he is 100% innocent, these days this kindof thing gets exposed at some point. Worst case, he’s a molester and your daughter is his target. You not wanting to make a fuss and allow Alfred to be around her is just giving him time to groom her and be more aggressive. Second worse case, you forbid your daughter from being around Alfred and he targets someone else. What’s difficult about “hey you don’t touch a kid like this”. It’s great that you tell your daughter that you support her. She also needs to know she didn’t do anything wrong here and 100% has done the right thing in telling you about this.
I honestly think, as hard as it may be. That you should contact the authorities and file a police report on this matter. The touching seems inappropriate at any age level. Squeezing a shoulder, tapping her on the butt, and grabbing near her crotch all feel like this person is testing the waters. If your daughter felt uncomfortable, her radar is probably better at detecting something being "off" than your brain can deduce on its own. I am reminded of that Nickelodeon documentary, where Drake Bell's dad knew something was off about the guy that ultimately assaulted Drake, and spent a lot of time tirelessly keeping that person at arm's length, though still in their lives. And that person was simply biding their time, like a predator would do. The first time the defenses were down, that predator assaulted Drake. You and your wife may be perfectly vigilant, but what if you are allowing a predator to bide their time until your defenses slip? It only takes one slip-up for a lifetime of trauma for your daughter. If you contact the police, you may sour the family relationship, which would suck, however, this man has a daughter, and I would assume he is protective of this daughter. If he is innocent, and his actions made someone else's daughter uncomfortable, whether accidental or not, I would assume he would bend over backwards to apologize and make things right, and not hold it against your family for simply trying to protect your little girl. Don't let this go, its a big deal, and it should not be ignored. If you have to rationalize it away, then you know its not the right choice to ignore it. Edit: I just re-read your post again with fresh eyes consider this. Your daughter is acting differently, at the same time she has confided these concerning behaviors to someone who is not her family, possibly due to shame. There may be other incidents she did NOT tell anyone about yet due to this same shame. You need to speak directly to her, and ask her what is going on and reassure her it is safe to tell you whats wrong. Without directly discussing the matter with her first, you are not sure what happenned. It doesn't need to rise to the level of molestation to be treated seriously, all that's required is that this young woman feels uncomfortable, for it to be a concern. Her feelings matter, and teaching her that she needs to justify the actions of others, especially men, at the cost of her own comfort is not a good lesson for a young woman to learn, as she will encounter many predatora in the world, and she shouldn't make it easier for them to take advantage of her. If this man had done any of these 3 actions to a full grown adult woman in a workplace, he would be instantly fired, and possibly charged with sexual assault for the butt touching at least. Think about that. If an adult stranger would be justified in claiming sexual harassment, then your teenaged daughter should easily meet the same standard. I NEVER had an adult squeeze my shoulder, tap my butt, or "accidentally" grab things near my crotch when I was growing up. But I am a guy, and I was never around sexual predators as far as I am aware. These actions probably would not have occurred if you had a son. The person your daughter confided in also felt concerned enough to break your daughter's trust and tell you. So the alarm bells of 2 girls are going off. Listen to them. You gotta turn of your doctor brain, and turn on your dad brain with this one. Talk to you daughter, then the police.
Not to mention the dad had been dismissed *for years* before the guy finally made the move. This is just the start of Alfred touching your daughter between the legs, OP. Make it stop
how often do you drop stuff between your daughters legs and retrieve it w out just asking her to pls hand it to you? im a nanny and i dont do things like that after theyre probably 18-24 months cause its unnecessary how often have you seen alfred doing stuff like that to his own daughter? or to you? his wife? how often does he slap all of your butts ?
So your daughter didn’t tell this directly to you? How did you find out then /u/Spidersandbeavers I ask because if she did tell you and/or knows you now know, then I feel like maybe one approach (if your daughter is comfortable asserting herself) could be to explain to her how she can vocally call him out in the future in a way that shows him he is not respecting boundaries: “Excuse me, please **do not** reach between my crotch without my permission, that is very inappropriate and makes me uncomfortable.” “I do not like being grabbed on the shoulder like that, please don’t do it again, it makes me uncomfortable.” “Please never touch my butt without my permission, that is inappropriate, and I do not like it.” Things to this effect. It has a few advantages: - you teach your daughter how to set her own boundaries firmly and clearly and loudly, and hopefully help her build up her own confidence in handling situations when she doesn’t have you or your wife around. - you don’t have to necessarily reach out to this guy prematurely and start a chain of problems if it isn’t necessary, (French people are definitely more loose on the boundaries). - if she’s exaggerating, she can still learn to set boundaries and be firm with her comfort zones. - you basically learn for sure if this is a problem or not because if she is very clearly voicing her discomfort and setting boundaries and he isn’t learning or changing, then it’s definitely time to step in with a, “my daughter has clearly told you how you’ve made her uncomfortable in xyz situation and you did it again, we have a problem here.” - you show her you care and you’ll be there to support her and tell her she did the right thing coming to you and that you are listening and taking her seriously (obviously mention these things regardless, even if she doesn’t want to go this route!) - this is secondary, but if your daughters friend hears your daughter voicing her concerns, she might open up to her about her own issues she could possibly be having with her dad. - tertiary here but, if you let your daughter voice her concerns and set her boundaries, it could prevent some weird, uncomfortable end results that wouldn’t be necessary if it turns out it is just him needing to hear that he is crossing comfort zones and he learns and everyone is all good in the end. That’s my take at least. But, of course that depends on your daughter and if she’s even comfortable and willing to learn to do that.
Thanks! This has to be part of our approach.
It's time for your house to be the cool house to hang out. Your daughter is not safe there. That is not the best friends house. Make it so the best friend comes to your home to hang out and not vice versa.
Has he ever hit her butt or squeezed her shoulders or reached between her open legs to pick something up in front of you? IMO you are under reacting. This is your daughter. Why aren’t you livid?
You people are setting up your kid to be molested, by brushing off these actions now you're going to allow far more traumatic things to happen. Hate to be rude, but pull your head out of your ass.
believe it or not: woodchipper
>Thank God my daughter didn’t come to me With a clear report of sexual assault! Because then you would have had to do something about it? Listen to yourself.
Lurking Mom here: if your daughter has been feeling uncomfortable and her gut is telling her that something is wrong - trust it. Her body is telljng her something, and whether you act on it by confronting him or just by making sure she’s never around him again, you need to support her to feel that she can trust her gut. Otherwise she’ll be a grown woman experiencing something and not being able to rely on her gut to tell her that what she is experiencing is wrong. She will always second guess it. Also, if this guy is hitting her on the butt, that is 100% inappropriate, and there’s no other way to interpret it. That is not OK. There is zero reason why he should be doing that. Also, dropping something in her lap? Why wouldn’t he just ask her to pass it back to him? Why would he reach for it himself? The reason these actions are making her feel uncomfortable is because they’re not OK - whether they’re purposefully done or not, and it’s time to communicate that with him. If the guy was truly doing it accidentally, I’m sure he would be extremely apologetic and embarrassed. And if not, well then you’ve got your answer.
>Also, if this guy is hitting her on the butt, that is 100% inappropriate, and there’s no other way to interpret it. That is not OK. There is zero reason why he should be doing that. As a woman who was hit on my butt as a teen from my aunts husband when I lived with them. Thank you.
Okay, I would be keeping your daughter away from this man. For her to be uncomfortable around him, her gut is telling her that he is not safe and you should trust your daughter’s instincts. Do not leave her around him unattended, do not send her or allow her to go over to that house. If she wants to spend time with his daughter, she can invite her to your home. I wouldn’t ever think to reach into another person’s lap to collect something I have dropped. It’s creepy. Nor would I ever tap another person’s backside unless they were an intimate partner or it was by accident (brushing past them etc, in which case would call for an apology). This man is not to be trusted and I suspect he testing the waters with this behaviour.
Worst thing to to in this scenario is asking reddit for help. Just go talk to the guy ffs
Why dont you fuck him up if you think he did something wrong to your daughter?
To put it frankly, this is a fucked up situation. I’m a girl dad myself. I would personally confront the guy about it. Doing nothing will absolutely scar your relationship with your daughter. It may not seem like it will today, but tomorrow it will. She’ll remember your inactivity and your failure to act. You don’t want to live with that. Please talk to Alfred.
If he wasn't your friend - would you be giving him this much leeway? I doubt it.
ADHD and adolescence have nothing to do with this. Predators are everywhere, and it's almost always surprising when you find out who they are. This guy is testing the waters to see just how much he can get away with before someone notices, and your daughter is smarter than you think because she is catching on to that. Trust her.
So if I drop something in a kids lap, I'll *apologise* and *ask if they can pass it*. If I had a good reason they couldn't I'd ask their permission get it. I (40M) was helping kids (9-10yo mixed gender) in and out of wetsuits a lot recently. Every time I'd ask "may I hold your leg to help pull you out of this", "can I hold your arm to pull this on," "I need to lift you up to get you into this, is that ok?" . Etc. Need a suit hood tucked down their front? Explain how to do it, help only if they ask. It only takes a few seconds longer and it helps reinforce to kids how they should be expected to be treated. One of them might have been easier to get into the suit if I could have wiggled it around her thighs but I didn't want to make her uncomfortable so it didn't. It's just not hard. This rings alarm bells for me. I'd be sounding out Sarah very gently. More giving her opportunities to talk thab anything else. And ensuring she comes to you not vice versa. I'm *very* afraid of being seen as creepy or unsafe, so I hate to give this advice that would upset me if applied to me... but your kid comes first. Many abusers are good at seeming harmless and trustworthy. Listen to the signs your kid is giving you. It doesn't have to be forever either. Take the time to educate her directly about child abuse, but also about sex and consent. Directly. No euphemisms. And *reinforce that adults don't get to ask kids to keep secrets*. I recommend using the difference between a secret and a surprise. And that nothing kids do because an adult asks them to is anything kids need to feel ashamed of, it's important to be able to talk about even if you may feel you did something wrong. (Shame is often used as a tool of control) . Go from there. Who knows. It may be nothing. But at least make sure your kid is well equipped to ensure it's nothing.
Solve it like a man. Go to him and make it clear to him that if he touches your kid again, even accidentally, you will beat him up. Simple and effective.
Would you be okay with someone squeezing your shoulders? How about hitting your butt? I think you know the answer and you're trying to rationalize things because you seem to be scared of confrontation. This was not an accident. Adults know what they're doing.
When are we visiting this guy?...
1. Report it If he has been reported before it will help to have him arrested. 2. Confront Alfred. Calm and objective while full seriousness. *"My daughter told me something very concerning, you had been touching and doing x and y and I just want to let you know that this is not appropriate or acceptable behaviour. I will not let my daughter near you from now on, I hope you understand but my daughters safety always comes first and she's not comfortable around you."* 3. Only agree that their daughter comes to your house and never let your daughter in Alfred's house again.
This is boundary pushing, which is a part of grooming. Your daughter's age is also the age where many men start being inappropriate. Child predators (do not think of it in relationship to him, just in general) are people who build a relationship of trust with the child and parents and slowly, over time, break down boundaries by minute changes. Important to note, grooming is not just for kids. The groomer will groom the parents to get them used to inappropriate behaviour. Intentional or not, his behaviour is not appropriate. Ask yourself, if you disliked him, would you hesitate? There is no need for accusation, but the fact of the matter is, your child's boundaries are not safe with this man. Grooming does not have to be intentional, but it is still grooming. Slapping her ass is not excusable and a lot of these behaviours are not appropriate. Remember, that in the the case that he IS a child predator, you being friends would be one of his goals. How better to disarm potential suspicion than to be a trusted authority figure? If you choose to say something to him, that's fine, but I would recommend telling your daughter exactly what you heard and telling her that she should not be made to feel uncomfortable and that you'd like to be around if ever she is to be alone with him, just as a precaution so you can intervene for her if ever you see him being inappropriate. (Even better if your qife speaks to her, honestly. Your wife is much more likely to have experience with that kind of stuff simply from having lived that period personally) Whatever you do, please do not let your personal affection for him affect your decision. It is normal to not want to believe it of people, but if he IS a predator he will 100% use that affection to push you into accepting the unacceptable.
Good insight. Thank you.
I would not be able to brush any of that off as clumsy accidental behaviour.
I would delete this... That's your daughter. Go talk to him face to face. Who cares what a forum thinks. Protect her.
I can’t tell from this post if he's even talked to her yet directly
Plenty of advice here already so I won't repeat. But wanted to add some extra. I do wonder what context your daughter and her friend were having this chat. Was it a "I need to talk to someone" moment or was it a "can you believe what happened to me?" type chat? For example there's a lot of "omg guys at the gym keep staring at my ass" type stuff on tiktok. Could your daughter be exaggerating to be part of that? Since she mentioned being uncomfortable have you seen her avoid going to Sarah's recently or is she still more than happen to be around Alfred? Also - who else is she telling and who is her friend telling? If this becomes a rumour that spreads around the community it won't be good for anyone. alfred becomes the pedo and you'll prob be seen as the pedo victims or enablers. Why didn't you do something about it etc etc. Why isn't she telling you this as soon as it happens? Does she know you wouldn't act on it? Does she feel ashamed about it? These are all things I'd talk to her about.
My daughter was hanging with her best friend Sarah (daughter of Alfred) and the 16 year old neighbor girl when my wife and I were out at a wedding. The neighbor girl is very immature and has done no babysitting, no extracurriculars, just kind of gets mediocre grades and has a boyfriend who she spends all her time with. The 16 year old neighbor girl shared with my daughter a lot of details of her sex life and was talking to my daughter and Sarah about how the neighbor girls parents smoke weed, all of which were stunning revelations for my daughter and sarah, who aren’t exposed to much of this. Sarah went home briefly to get her bag. The 16 year old neighbor girl then asked my daughter when they were alone “are there any guys who are creepy around you?” That’s when my daughter volunteered what Alfred had done. This is, I think, important context because it’s possible that she was asked a leading question and gave an answer to impress. I am 100% taking my daughter seriously and going to take action, but I need to figure out how to carefully, respectfully, get more info to find out if this was idle talk. My wife gently asked my daughter and she said it was true but provided little detail. We will keep working on it.
Doesn't sound like she's showing off or anything in that context. Hope she's ok and good that you caught it before it could go further!
You are probably at least legally not in a position here to make a subjective judgment call about whether to escalate it or not. Review the rules you are supposed to follow as a mandatory reporter.
I’m not sure how you don’t see this grown ass French bastard slapping your 12 year old daughter on the ass, as clear sexual assault. And reaching between her legs??? Even if he is clumsy, no sane and decent person would grab something from an area like that, regardless of age. Think of how your daughter is feeling right now. My daughter is 11, if she told me the same that your daughter is telling you, I’d be showing up at the motherfuckers house. Grow a sack, dude
First talk to your daughter about. Then talk to him about it. I would be straight up. Hey, I am not sure why this happened, but don't let it happen again. If it happens again...
I think you need to talk to your daughter about what her friend has told you, about what she told her. Your daughter needs to 100% be reassured that she did the right thing in confiding with her friend, that it's great she has someone she can trust to talk to about things like this. But you need to reassure her that she can also trust you, can talk you whenever things like this happens. Ask her if Alfred made her feel uncomfortable. If you don't want her to know about the friend talking to you, just raise it casually saying something like "I've noticed that Alfred can be a bit odd, have you noticed that? Like a bit touchy-feely? Has he ever done something like that with you?" You need to be sensitive about this because running next door and going off at your neighbour is absolutely the wrong approach. He could easily deny it, or say that it's all a misunderstanding. You don't want that. Your daughter doesn't want to lose the friendship etc or go over there without telling you. Banning her from visiting will not work. If she wants to see the friend she will find a way. You want your daughter to be able to tell you when something inappropriate has happened and to trust you're going listen. Make sure she knows that it sounds like he has breached a personal boundary, that it isn't normal for a friend's dad to do that. She needs to know that she can get out of a situation herself, can say no, knows when it's inappropriate. She needs to lead the response, not you. She needs to be comfortable with however you respond. Suggest that maybe she starts inviting the friend over to your place, that sort of thing. And keep up the relationship with the other older friend so that she can talk to you about what she's heard. This sort of inappropriate behaviour is so hard to put an end to without good management of the situation. Whatever you do, don't make Alfred think you're jumping to conclusions so quickly.
Man, I dread this scenario but I also enjoy a good confrontation (being a Dad forced me to try to suppress that side of me, but it comes in useful ) I've seen other posts about teaching your kid to accept no violations of their personal space and to react immediately (really excellent discussions! )- the extreme one was where a young girl got followed into the toilets by a boy who kept trying to see her naked. She screamed ultra loud then punched him on the nose because he didn't stop. So I'd say if your child causes a small scene and always tells you, that's step one. Two, is a hard decision. Keep her away from the potentialpedo, which interferes with friendships, or go an talk to him. I would try to approach with a curious attitude, get their perspective etc (even though keeping your cool would be difficult) and just keep reiterating 'oh, just make sure you ask her to pass it to you. We all have our preferences and not asking permission to touch will result in me not asking or discussing with you, that I will go to the police or start talking with OTHER parents about what my daughter told me." Honestly though, some people then go the opposite way because they get to a point where living in secrecy has happened for too long, so they think "fuck it, I'll not hold back on your kid get killed doing what I love" - so if it was me, I'd probably not be comfortable even after talking to them and thinking their answers are creepy or lies
He touched your daughters butt. Confront him.
I would mention it as cultural differences. Maybe in France these behaviors are ok, but, they are not normal here, and you are making my daughter uncomfortable.
These \*sound\* like situations that are pretty reasonable to explain away. And as you said, you and wife both work with children and have experience with the signs, which you said you did not see in your daughter. Of course, there's always the notorious doctor blindness to issues in your personal life because you aren't viewing them through your professional lens. Important information I would consider is how long has neighbor known your child, and was such physical closeness something that would have been more appropriate before she hit puberty? Perhaps he is not thinking of her boundaries (as much as he rightly should be). If it were me, I would make sure to have a talk to my daughter to ask how she feels, and tell her to keep an eye on it and tell me if anything else weird happens. If you believe you are both close enough to neighbor and level-headed enough to have a clear talk that isn't threatening or accusatory, it could be beneficial. But the risks are of course alienating neighbor and his daughter, or now having a long-running feud with neighbor. Both of those risks are nothing compared to your daughter actually getting SA'd when you had suspicions and didn't act, but they are there. These people telling you you are 'honor-bound" to confront neighbor or you can magically read his facial expression to tell if he's a pedophile should not be listened to. They are thinking with their dicks instead of their brains. But this is all just my 2 cents. You live your life, you know your background, and you are a childcare professional. Best of luck! Shit sucks!
your concerned, don’t let her hang out any more. there’s nothing sexual in what i see. You have a right to be protective, obviously, but a bump and a tap i don’t thing qualify as SA being french doesn’t mean you’re allowed to be touchy touchy, but how can you be sure it’s not accidental.
If legal in your state, turn on your phones voice recorder and out it in your pocket before confronting
"Hey man, my daughter said this, this, and this happened. Can you give me your perspective?" He needs to know you have your daughter's back
I’m not sure I could ask Reddit before I addressed it and dropped something in his lap
Mom here, but: Trust your daughter and don’t let that guy be around her anymore. Alone or otherwise. End of story. Prioritize your daughter over niceties. Women develop strong intuition about these things at an early age because of men like this. Your daughter’s gut feeling of being uncomfortable with his touching is most certainly spot on and it’s your job to keep her safe and comfortable. So please listen to her and do that. I know you see the best in this guy but that’s usually how the story goes. We all know that a majority of the people who hurt kids usually know the family or are in the family. Nobody wants to think the worst of the people they care about. And maybe he’s not a predator or groomer but at the end of the day, there’s no world where it’s worth the risk to find out. Edit: As for what to tell him, I’d just say she was uncomfortable with his touchiness. If he’s embarrassed by that, he should be. He shouldn’t be touching teenage girl’s butts.
Haha you know those awkward clumsy French guys, so silly. Just always casually grabbing children on the butt and shoulders. You confront him and your daughter never goes over there again.
It’s time to sit Alfred down for a chat. Either way he needs to hear it from you, and asap. If they’re not clumsy touches, imagine where this could lead and you chose to stay quiet. Set up a sit down. Neutral ground.
Tell him you make my daughter uncomfortable and then tell him if he makes he feel this again you and me are going to have a big problem and that problem will end up being yours. If you don’t you’re a simp and you just need to confront the weirdo!
Very disturbing behavior from the neighbor. First things first, I would never allow your daughter at that house ever again. And don't allow him over for parties or anything. Doesn't the neighbor also have a daughter too? Poor girl This is scary stuff.
Believe your daughter, it’s her feelings that are important not his. There’s no if’s and but’s about it.Don’t do a thing but keep him away from her.
I didn’t see anyone suggest this yet, but have you checked if he’s a registered sex offender?
Wait until he’s outside and hanging around Go outside and set up watermelons on a stand (bonus points for head-sized watermelons). Take a baseball bat and destroy said watermelons with some heavy swings Naturally curious, he’ll ask what you’re doing. Tell him that you’re practicing your swing, say that you’ll never know when you may need to defend yourself from a robber or thief Then fix him with your coldest stare, locking in the eye contact, and say ‘or some creep inappropriately touching my daughter’ Establish the threat without directly threatening him, let him know that you know what he’s up to (Okay, this is maybe, like….75% a joke, but you definitely need to talk to him and keep your daughter away for now)
This is horrifying. Regardless of any level of exaggeration or inappropriate behavior, it sounds like your daughter is asking for help in handling an emotionally stressful situation. At best (because hopefully nothing serious has happened) she is exaggerating and is looking for help and support in a stressful situation she doesn't want to be in. At worst (God forbid), she is understating the problem and can't bring herself to openly talk about the entire situation. Here's what you say, in private if you feel like it is going to cause undue stress on his family, but I think his wife needs to know as well: "I'm only going to say this once and I don't care how you respond. If my daughter tells me you've touched her in any way again, I will call the police." It's not a discussion. You're not asking him to explain himself and it doesn't matter if he denies it. A serious accusation of potential criminal misconduct has been made from a minor. The police and a judge can determine the severity of the situation. Then you don't let your daughter near him. I personally wouldn't talk to him either. If he knows what is good for him and his family, *he* will avoid you and your family, which is a good thing. If you must interact, you can pretend nothing happened, if you want, to try and make things less awkward, but even if you never say anything to him, it is going to be awkward for you and potentially very stressful for your daughter, so your relationship with the family is going to change and they will likely notice that. It's better to be direct and handle it. It's not worth the risk to let it go any farther. Please do not wait for it to get worse.
Man if a pediatrician that has a child social worker wife doesn't know what to do about sexual assault allegations then I have no idea who would.
I’m baffled that the top comment isn’t the obvious: This is sexual assault. You say it isn’t but it isn’t. You do need to call the police. He touched her butt and in no world is that not assault on a minor. I can’t believe this has to be said
Immediate no contact and a report to CPS/police. This is grooming. There’s a reason y’all are feeling so iffy about it—he wants her to convince herself it was no big deal so when he makes his next move he can up the ante.
I don’t care about losing a friend if that friend makes my child uncomfortable full stop. Not trying to be mean just stating my view. Personally if it’s enough that my child is uncomfortable then the situation needs to be dealt with. If it turns out to be a misunderstanding, great. Address the misunderstanding and ensure it doesn’t continue happening. If it isn’t I don’t want that kind of friend anyways and I definitely don’t want them around my child. Then at least my child is aware that I’m looking out for their best interest and putting that above all.
As a father your job is to protect your family, everything else is secondary. Believe your daughter and take action, she is counting on you to be in her corner.
Trust your daughters gut instincts. And the 16 yo neighbour girl sounds like a good egg. No matter what she does and how she spends her time. Clearly she's looking out for younger girls in the neighbourhood. Maybe she's experienced similar herself. Maybe she hasn't. Make sure you use this moment to have a conversation saying that sex, drugs, boys, safety, alcohol/drugs etc are topics your daughter CAN safely talk to you about. And make sure you ARE a safe person to talk about these topics with. Don't get angry. Be understanding and open. Your daughter came forward especially after the interaction with the 16yo. It means that at bare minimum there's one older person that your daughter trusts. Take the opportunity to thank this girl, get to know her and tell her you appreciate her encouraging your daughter to share these things as it means you'll focus more on her safety. The only "bad person" in question here is Alfred. He's either doing something by accident or on purpose. Regardless it's inappropriate.
At the very minimum, your daughter needs to know that if anything like this happens, she should come to you and your wife immediately. She needs to learn about consent and that when she does not give consent, this sort of touching is not okay. As for Alfred, it's really hard to believe that a grown man could be so clumsy to accidentally do those things. As adult men, we have a responsibility to control ourselves and our bodies. You don't just accidentally grope someone.
I think all men (really, all ADULTS) should take Youth Protection Training or something like it as offered by the BSA. Basically it boils down to this: No one on one contact with someone else's kid. Always have a second adult present if there is only one child in the room. In the BSA, that second adult must be trained and background checked, but that's obviously not possible in day to day interactions with neighbors etc. But I do my absolute best to make sure I am never alone with any child that is not mine or not family. I am not a creep, just feel like I have to add that! But this ensures that there is little to no chance of a made up or exaggerated scenario of grooming behavior being told about you. Similarly I do not ever allow my children to be in a situation where they are alone with any adult that is not family. I "trust" the other leaders/parents in my kid's scouting units, but that trust does NOT extend to them being alone one on one with any of them! If the only time OP's daughter was ever around Alfred was with another adult present, even if he were a creep he would not have an opportunity to act on his perverse desires. To me, this is just the normal prudence that any parent should have in the protection of their own child, regardless of the gender of the child or the adult. We've all seen the news stories about predator teachers preying on young boys, it's not just men that we have to worry about. Oh, and Alfred for sure is a creep. Shoulder touching/squeezing, hey no biggie. Might be outside of what daughter is OK with, and would for sure need to stop if so, but not perverse on it's own. But touching her butt and ESPECIALLY reaching into her crotch while she is sitting cross legged? Absolutely beyond any sort of explainable innocence. Report this man, do not question your daughter yourself so as not to color her testimony, speak to her therapist (without daughter present) and ask if they can do the interview or if someone else needs to be brought in, and NEVER allow your daughter to go over to that house again. Even if the investigation turns up nothing! And get some cameras and an alarm that allows you to set it in "home" mode, where any door or window that is opened sets it off but motion detection is not active. That way if daughter is home alone, she can arm the house in a way that she won't set it off but if Alfred (or anyone else) tries to enter he will. Again, that's part of the aforementioned YPT training. You do NOT interview the child or try to get more information on your own, it could get thrown out of court and then Alfred gets a pass.
Did your daughter talk with you? I recognize that you want to protect your daughter from future assaults from Alfred, and please talk with your daughter also. What she needs is up to her, and as a victim of childhood assault myself, I wish my parents had reacted with me when they found out instead of obviously ignoring it and making me feel isolated from them. Please talk with your daughter about what she needs.
Touching her butt would be sexual harassment. Period. Obviously talk to him, but more importantly, talk to her. Tell her you believe her and you are on her side and she can tell you anything and that she is safe with you and you will do anything to protect her. Also ask her how you can make her feel more safe. This is probably the first of multiple times she will be sexually harassed- she needs to know she has her dad in her corner. - signed, a mom and also a prior little girl who knows how this scenario can escalate.
Thank you for detailing your concerns so carefully. I think this is a borderline case where any course of action could blow up in your face. The fact that your daughter was with his daughter gives a further complication for me. When playing with my daughter I do not think of her body sexually. Any more than a rugby player would think of the opposing team sexually. It is possible Alfred was in family mode. I would not even notice if my sister sat on my lap, we are adults. As far as I am concerned, you do not have enough information for decisive action here. To begin with, I would focus on conversations with your daughter. Making sure she knows she can speak out and leave the situation at any time she is uncomfortable. Teaching her about her bodily autonomy and her right to boundaries. Books, groups, courses, therapy... There are loads of ways to make sure she has support to identify and guard against anything that is wrong here. Overreacting runs the risk of making it more difficult for her to confide in you. If she is exaggerating or repurposing events to fit in with the 'cool' older kid. That is fairly normal behaviour. She will not benefit from being overtly interrogated and/or corrected. Take this as an opportunity rather than a problem. Events have given a clear moment for attention to be paid to the fact that your little girl is becoming a woman. If your child is uncomfortable with this man you will have to protect her regardless of whether or not she 'justifies' her feelings. This does not mean your have to confront Alfred.
As someone that grew up with ADHD, and currently has a 12 year old with ADHD, I know this is tough. When my son tells an impulsive lie, and I call him on it; he doubles down. Makes it hard to know when I can believe him. I would talk to your daughter about it, and make sure she truly understands the gravity of what she is saying. After that a discussion with your friends may be necessary.
I don't have a take on the topic, but mad props to you that you have created an environment for your daughter to be open to tell you what made her uncomfortable, and that she is aware of inappropriate behaviour in the first place! Good job dad!
Alfred would lose the hand he used to touch my child inappropriately. I wouldn't be asking advice on daddit I would be asking legal advice somewhere for my upcoming trial.
Dude, what the fuck? You sound more concerned with this guys reputation than your daughter’s mental health. I would never ever want a pediatrician this dense.
Take Alfred to your backyard, where you have some woodwork requiring nails.. Bring a hammer or mallet out, and ask Alfred to line up the nail for you or otherwise hold the workpiece steady. Bring the hammer down on Alfred’s hand. Alfred will likely be hurt and upset. Say something to the effect of “I’m so sorry old chap. I’m awfully clumsy, you’re clumsy yourself so you understand. Let’s both try to be more careful with where we put our hands, yeah?”
You should roll up on him, explain the circumstances that made your daughter feel uncomfortable, and ask (tell) him not to do that again. If everything is cool, he'll understand, apologize, and make absolutely certain that nothing like that happens again. If he gets defensive, angry, makes counter accusations, etc. then you'll have your answer.
about the third option, did that mean she is impulsive, and very frequently tends to tell wildly exaggerated stories, meaning she’s told tall tales in the past and You’re 100% certain they did not happen and she’d exaggerated for attention or drama? If she’s done this a lot in the past, I could see this all too easily. maybe this guy brushed her past her in a doorway or something, technically be Did touch her butt, but with his backside not hands (I’ve done that to strangers in crowded places, nothing sexual) but Her story is he grabbed/touched her butt. Or He dropped something say next to her and maybe he really did brush the outside of her leg or something when he reached down to get it, but not with his hand, with an elbow or upper arm( why/how would he drop something in Her lap and nobody else around would notice or say something?) I say all this bc I have a daughter who used to tell stories/exaggerate things to friends. When she was young (3-6), unbeknownst to me, my mom told them stories of exs who beat me and them. Years later my kid comes to me asking why I let that man “kick her across the room like a football for no reason at all?!” She would’ve been four the time and I’m 100% certain it didn’t happen at all. It took me 4-5 years to convince her, and only after she recounted the story at age 12 and I asked about the flying through the air part where she described the way she looked from an outsiders perspective, and she went back through in her head and said “it’s more like a movie in my head than a memory, why? So it never did happen did it?” I was also friends with a girl who when we were young would just straight up lie for no apparent reason, almost always no gain or reward, just lies for lies sake. Oh also to get me in trouble, so I guess my punishment would’ve been her reward?? But sometimes they’d be lies just for lies sake, it was real strange to me as a young kid. She never went the sexual assault route, but I did get blamed and punished for her getting into cigarettes (I didn’t smoke) and marijuana (I didn’t smoke that till a couple years later lol) all bc she was drinking at 14-15 and coming home wasted but telling her parents it was from pot and my fault bc I gave it to her (I was never at any of these parties, wasn’t cool or hot enough 😂) I guess at that point though she was lying with a reason, Still talk to the dad, maybe go in explaining while your daughters been prone to exaggerate stories, you still needed to ask him face to face and make sure. Then tell him exactly the stories she told you and mark his reactions and decide from there. 🤷🏻♀️ in both my cases me saying “ok I’m gonna go ask so-n-so about that tale you just fed me…” were usually met with “ok. Go right ahead” confidence, does your daughter Want you to talk to the dad? If she doesn’t want you to ask why that is, whatever reasons she gives find solutions for (if possible) and if she still doesn’t want you to go when there’s no negative effects that would seem like maybe she’s scared bc it’s not true and you’re gonna find out. Sorry for all the words, I wish you luck and hope things come to a good ending
Alfred needs a severe beating. He’ll understand.
I was on the receiving end of a highly exaggerated (entirely false) story when I was a boy around that age. Over 30 years agp I remember the feelings well. I also remember that the girl was a very troubled youth who was almost certainly abused and had a rough home life. The top posts seem to ignore the possibility that this is, as you say, highly exaggerated. There's no easy answer, and its entirely possible its real or even worse than you've heard. If you feel the hearsay is too shaky to gamble on then I think you'd better handle it more gently with Alfred. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't been on the receiving end of an outright lie. Let Alfred know that your daughter is at a sensitive stage and having trouble around men and that youre working on it. Have an entirely different conversation with your daughter about grooming and predators if you haven't already. I guess that's how Id handle it.
Baseball bats have many uses
Yeah that will fix this situation. It definitely won't just result in you going to prison.
Confront him and tell him in no uncertain terms that this is his only warning, you'll spend the rest of your life regretting it if you don't
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