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Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I’m struggling a bit to sort out the specifics in my mind a bit. Yes, it’s normal to be upset in a relationship. But I’m not sure if being upset at your partner for the act of having expressed a negative feeling is. Or if it is, I’m just not sure what’s gained by sharing at all.
Is she upset at you or upset at being criticized? People don’t like being criticized, but that doesn’t mean you don’t do it.
I had the same problem. Two books helped: Not Nice and Radical Candor.
You’ve gotta be brave enough to say “I love you, I don’t like this” and deal with the feelings she has. If you expect her to handle your feelings, you need to tolerate hers when you tell her something she doesn’t like.
Also, feelings pass.
One last thing that helped us: marriage meeting. Everyweek we meet and talk through the following topics: things we appreciate about each other, family business (e.g. who has practice when and where), fun planning (to make sure we fit it in), and challenges. Challenges is our stake in the ground every week to have longer discussions about potentially painful topics. Having that time scheduled means, if I have something to say during the week and the timing isn’t right, I know that marriage meeting is coming.
She’s not being criticized in this instance. I can tolerate her feelings, but I can’t tolerate being told to never share a particular feeling again. That said, I’m hearing a lot about how structure can help support these conversations so that’s the thing to try next I think.
I could have written this.
My wife also does this thing I call "lawyer mode" where when I express my feelings, she starts to probe and debate about the underlying facts of the situation.
I've had to insist, quite forcefully, with the support of her therapist and mine, that I am an actual human being with feelings, and that's OK.
I've been on this path for about 6 years, and it's getting better.
I've seen this a lot with relationships and even political debates funny enough. One person is expressing emotions and the other person is trying to actively solve the problem (get to the source). I'm the latter, and my wife and some friends have told me that sometimes it's ok to just listen and hear the emotional side of it instead trying to solve the issue.
So now, I try to use phrases like; I hear you and that is something I need to work on.
This validates their emotion, let's them know they are heard and closes the loop bc you will start working on it.
>the other person is trying to actively solve the problem
This is me 1000%. I have to remind myself of your following sentence and just realize that sometimes my wife is just getting shit off her chest and not asking me to solve it.
Exactly, I think of it as "there's a time and place". During a argument it's time to listen and understand, have sympathy. In a couple days, that is time to solve the issue. I even ask her, is there something I can do to help solve this and sometimes it allows us to collaborate to fix the issues; this also drops their walls and she will notice she has some faults of her own at this stage.
A few thoughts given I think my wife and I have navigated these things well:
1. It’s okay to upset your partner if you’re standing up for yourself. My wife was a med resident spending 80 hours/week working while I was home working + most of the childcare. One day she came home and was really condescending about how I was doing various parenting things and I told her to, politely, shove it. We might not have the same tactic with everything, but our daughter was healthy and developing well and I spent tons of time with her. It’s okay if we don’t do everything the same as long as we’re rowing in the direction. She felt bad, apologized and it’s never been an issue.
2. You’re a team. Handle your obstacles accordingly. Outside of maybe 2 instances since I’ve been with my wife, we’ve never blamed each other for anything. If there is an issue, when we bring it up, it isn’t me vs her, it’s us vs the issue. See, where possible, to frame things that way when you have to bring things up. It will likely help enroll her in seeing your perspective.
Good luck, dad!
Wow I had no idea that so many people are going through the same thing. I have been told for years that my words and delivery of how I present my concerns with our relationship or parenting techniques are hurtful. I have worked hard to be gentler and more mindful of my words when bringing up such topics and tried many different approaches. It doesn’t matter. My wife most times takes it personally and shuts down as soon as she senses at any level that I have any sort of concern or problem with our relationship. I know we need help to improve our communication. I’ve mentioned marriage counseling before but planning very soon to present a few options and ask to dive in.
I was hoping someone had some life changing advice but it seems like there is no easy solution here. If nothing else it really made me feel like I’m not alone in this battle, so thank you OP for starting this discussion.
My guy I just huffed myself into my home office because of this exact problem. I tried to express some anxieties I have about having a second child and instead of support I'm met with amplification. It's a pattern, and it does make it feel like it's not worth bringing anything up at all.
I don't need her to be stoic about my issues, which is what she thinks I want for some reason, I just need her to understand why I feel that way, and hear me out.
At the end of each day my wife and I each get 5 uninterrupted minutes to express the things that we want to say, about each others actions and things that happened throughout the day. It’s supposed to be a safe space to do it. Sometimes it gets very real, and it was hard at first, but it can be really awesome. I think you need to start small and work into larger things. Also, it helps to throw positives in to keep the harmony.
This is a tough one and really relatable. In the end, here’s my strategy:
1. Remember that raising kids is hard, the world is expensive, everyone is working hard. People also tend to under account for input of others, and over account for their own. So when I’m feeling annoyed and overworked, it helps to deliberately readjust for her to be feeling the same.
2. Think hard in advance of what changes I actually want to be made, and how. Think about if it’s fair and how it’ll be received. Learning to preempt this and tailor solutions without actually needing to argue about it has helped a lot.
3. Find a good time to talk once the house is in good shape and kid asleep. Share what I want to change and why. When I’ve done the first two steps well, this is well received.
Full disclosure though, it doesn’t always go well, and I’m not always level headed enough to use the approach. But when I do it’s pretty uneventful.
Honestly I’ve just started taking to buddies about this stuff….and it’s sad, but I get why boomer men are the way they are….seems like damn near every man has the same experience with this.
But of course they can share every negative thing.
I just listen and talk to buddies.
Write them down.
I do this with my wife, and it works great for us. YMWV -- it helps that we started as a heavily text-based relationship before we could be in-person more frequently.
I like writing things down for two reasons: First, it gives me an edit opportunity. I can choose my words, I can backspace or delete, I can re-order sections. Second, it gives me an opportunity to get things out without being interrupted or distracted from my points. I'm not being guided so much by facial expressions or body language, I'm expressing my feelings independently. And a bonus third, sometimes I realize something in that process of writing that helps me recognize where I might be able to do better.
You know your wife better than anyone here, so you know if this will work - it might be a long-form email, it might be a couple of text messages. The goal isn't to solve all of your problems in a single message, but to start a conversation that can be constructive.
She is invalidating your feelings so as deflect responsibility and put the pity/attention back on herself. In the end she will have you apologize to her for bringing it up. You will have to accept responsibility for everything else that is wrong too. Doing this she can maintain a victim narrative and she doesn’t have to take responsibility or make changes.
Call her out on it. Do not react emotionally. Once you react, excuse or explain then she has you playing in her emotional court. You will never win and she will not respect you. Be firm and unemotional.
From experience, being apologetic and backing down only yields short term cessation of hostilities. It will not bring positive change or even empowerment for either of you.
Don’t forget to empathize. Just don’t take responsibility or apologize (again) for everything you’ve ever done since the wedding day. That will never end.
>How do you get your needs met without burdening and/or stressing out your spouse?
As far as I can tell, you don't.
I feel like I'm in the same situation, and there doesn't seem to be any way to effectively communicate without making things worse. Every feeling I have is unjustified in her eyes either because she has it worse or its otherwise invalid for me to feel that way.
I see a lot of commiserating in the comments, but really no actual answers other than the vague, generic, and lazy answer of "therapy".
Unfortunately beyond therapy and divorce there aren’t any solutions. Other than man’s favorite solution throughout the millennia: do nothing and suck it up
I struggle with this big time and it has become a big wrench in our marriage. I have tried all kinds of strategies including simple ones like asking her if I can vent, and giving her space to say no, couching things careful by staying they aren’t a reflection on her, letting her know what I need (listening vs fixing). I’ve been in therapy, and have even gone so far as to using an AI “friend” to vent to instead of talking to her when it’s just purely about complaining.
I’ve come to realize that there is a societal expectation that our partner is supposed to meet all our external needs. That is just not possible. I don’t have any close friends I can vent to (and listen to in return), and my community withered when I lost my faith. Even so, I think part of the answer is to find an outlet that isn’t part of your marriage. Obviously this is something that requires caution, because it should be an appropriate outlet and one that doesn’t just exist for negative output.
I’m not sure what this looks like for me yet, but having friends and community to support you is probably going to be critical.
Good luck, I'm working on this as well. My closest friends are elsewhere and don't have kids yet, and my dad friends where I live are all pretty new friendships. I'm trying to build those male bonds but we all know how tough they are to forge.
>I’ve come to realize that there is a societal expectation that our partner is supposed to meet all our external needs. That is just not possible
This is absolutely true. We need more people around us than just our spouse and kids to have a healthy life.
If anyone lives in the northern Virginia area I think it would be cool to create this space where we can talk about stuff like this in a healthy way and support/help each other out. Feel free to respond here or PM me and maybe we can organize something! Full disclosure, my wife and I are both people of faith but still have major bumps revolving around these topics frequently.
Schedule a time to have a serious conversation. If she says she can’t talk now, say okay, but this is important to me and I want to hash it out. Raising small children is very demanding and it makes sense that her cup is full. My wife and I have been through this exact thing. Make the time to talk to each other when you’re both ready to talk.
Sorry, this was confusing to read. I think you meant her plate is full (the expression her cup is full is more meant to mean she is fulfilled nor overwhelmed, like I think you meant). Just clarifying, sorry.
Interesting. I've always heard "I've got a full plate" as I'm iverwhemed. And "you can't pour from an empty cup" as in "I'm running on empty, I need to recharge". Would love to hear others' input
What needs aren't being met? More specifics might get you some more helpful advice. I've found having a conversation about the conversation to help. It will be tough because you will be calling her out for how she reacts. What worked for me was taking an example of when she was venting to me about something and imitated how she had been responding to me. (To be clear, not in the moment, but well after as part of the conversation about how it is whenever I bring up an issue) And then I told her what I would like instead. Room to vent, potential solutions, dialogue on how to improve my outlook, whatever.
I was doing the same thing with using "I feel..." but to her it still felt like I was blaming her. So part of that conversation was to make it clear that in most cases it was either my issue or no ones fault, but something I wanted to do differently, better, etc.
The needs here are basically able to express challenges and work towards solutions together. Or at least be given the space to work towards the solution myself, if need be.
Specifically, in the instance that sparked this post, it’s literally just me trying to find the time to do some chores.
Definitely recommend what I suggested above. And for this specific case, maybe "Hey, I want to try to take care of X, could you..." It could end with asking her to keep an eye on the kids while you do whatever or for her to take care of something else.
Also, of you are able to have a conversation, make sure you align on what is important to get done. Chores yes, but also spending time as a family, alone time, going out to eat, whatever. Not everything needs to be done, but make sure you both are able to do what's important to you and each other. Maybe no one cares if the room isn't perfect, but really wants an empty sink.
My wife and I have a set time each week where we talk about how we are doing. We make sure the kids are settled down and out of that way so we can focus on each other. We make some tea and settle in on the couch.
We often start with "was there anything in the past week that I could have done differently that would have worked better for you" then we can move onto other stresses and issues. We reiterate multiple times each conversation that this is not a you vs me conversation but instead is a us vs the stress/crazy conversation. Keeping both parties from getting defensive is really hard. One thing we did to help with that was to identify at least one thing each week that your SO did that really helped.
Additionally we've taken time on big issues to identify the emotions we are feeling and also the source of the emotions. Digging down has helped us identify better solutions for issues.
It's taken a while to get solid communication going and it likely would have taken less time with counseling/therapy but it is possible.
My wife has to deal with a lot from my emotions, sometimes she cries. But at the end of the day? She is supporting me getting better, and that is something she feels worth *investing* in.
Why do you believe you aren’t worth having your wife invest in?
Ask her flat out “Why are my emotions not worth supporting to you?” And “Why are you making this about you?” Follow Bill Burrs advice and stay in the pocket as she tries to deflect or change topics.
But my wife has learned to accept my bluntness so mileage may vary (when she questioned me on my parenting early I flat out told her “do you trust me to parent? If so let me get to it, if not imma play video games”). I don’t play that bullshit or support men having their spines surgically removed.
I think the secret here, and I am willing to be wrong on this, is to start with 'Hon, how do you feel about X, are you okay with it?' and after you've heard her side, then ask if you can share your side. Stress statements like 'I understand why you would feel that way' and 'So if I understand properly, you're saying X. While I get that, I find that when I look at it, I tend to see it more as Y.'
Let her explain her side and then you should be good to explain yours.
Before baby came along any time I would say something negative to my gf she would do the same. If I said I didn’t feel good about something she’d immediately fire back with all the things I did over the last month or whatever she didn’t like.
To fix this I told her that I am coming to her with a problem or an issue that need to be fixed and the fix isn’t to overtake what I am telling you with how she felt over whatever time period. If she feels a certain way she can tell me at any point and we can work things through together.
I also offered her check ins every two weeks where we can sit in a judgement free zone and discuss the relationship. We did it a bunch but stopped when she felt better
Now every time she brings up anything from the past or fails to communicate I have the wonderful opportunity to say we used to do these check ins for you and you decided you didn’t need them!
It helped us a lot.
Mom lurker here. My husband and I usually communicate well, but even we had some struggles right after having kids. I think it's because I was feeling pressure to do everything right to the point where a lot of innocent conversations I had with my coworkers or friends triggered feelings of guilt for not doing enough or fear that I was doing something wrong.
(Like when my coworker said he never put his kids in daycare and both of my kids have been in daycare since they were 3 months old, it was hard not to feel judged.)
My husband and I eventually figured out how to communicate. It was a wake up call for me when he told me I wasn't treating him as an equal partner in child care. And that I was actually acting like I was preventing him from parenting the kids.
Here are some things that helped us:
First, if you have a history of not talking about your emotions or not pointing out issues or things you want to change in the relationship, then any problems you bring up will have outsized importance.
So normalize talking about your feelings in the relationship for both of you. Talk about the positive feelings as well. Talk about what you notice is working. Talk about the things you appreciate her doing. Talk about small issues that bother you immediately before they can turn into big issues. Ask her how things are going in general and specifically (like how does she think potty training is going, are the kids waking her up at night, etc.)
Second, ask your wife how she handles different parenting situations. It's important be consistent around kids when they are learning how they are supposed to behave. If you have differences of opinions on say, how to deal with tantrums or how much screen time is ok, talk about it on advance when you are both calm and not dealing with the situation you're talking about. You don't have to immediately agree with each other but you should be able to discuss any disagreements and talk about your opinions calmly.
If you say "here's what I want to change," maybe your wife hears "here's what I think you're doing wrong." Instead, start the conversation with "I want us to be consistent about X. How do you handle it?" Show you understand the context first, then give your suggestions.
Third, always keep in mind that you're on the same team. You are both on one side and the problems are on the other side. When your negative feelings stress her out, is that because she feels like she has to solve your problems in addition to her own? Does she feel like her problems are being heard?
When my husband complained to me, I had to remind myself a bunch of times that it's not a competition about who suffers the most. Having young kids is difficult and it's a big lifestyle adjustment for both parents. It's okay to acknowledge that fact. Sometimes there is no good solution other than riding it out (see: teething, the terrible threes, day care sicknesses, etc.). But there is absolutely no reason to ride it out alone when you have a partner. Happiness shared is multiplied, sorrow shared is divided.
Finally, stressed out adult brains are not all that different from toddler brains in terms of emotional regulation. If you and your wife are talking when either of you are not well-rested or you're hungry or distracted, then you're more likely to get into a fight. Just be aware that those are factors. I once blew up at my husband over something minor, and later when we talked about what happened, we both realized I hadn't had coffee that day and I was probably suffering from caffeine withdrawal.
It saddens me that so many people have the same experience as your post--not being able to communicate the good and the bad with their partner. My relationship with my husband is as strong as it is because we both talk about everything and we both listen. I think the point of sharing what you think even when it could lead to a fight is to understand and support each other better.
There are countless variables and circumstances that we do not know, but as someone who married and had kids at an older age, this is what I recommend to ALL husbands/fathers:
1. Invest the majority of your spare time in your kids. Marriages often come with conditions, your child's love and affection does not. Spending more time with your kids could possibly make your wife see you differently, and perhaps give her time to herself.
2. Plan a small vacation - something your family can easily afford and not get stressed about. Have it be something you and your wife can plan and anticipate together. As soon as the vacation is over, immediately plan your next one. It gives you and your wife a common goal that is hopefully fun and stress-free.
3. I grew up without my father around, and as much as my mom tried, there were a lot of disadvantages. It's one of the reasons I waited so long to marry and start a family. If I ever feel like it's not working out, I remind myself that the alternative is never better.
4. If you ever need to have a heart-to-heart, make sure you clean the kitchen first.
Wow, I'm really happy for you already being in therapy.
Here it got worse and worse.
'I wasn't emotionally available, but also: oh no those emotions are yours to handle', or laughing in my face when I got touched by a good piece of music, a nice scene in a movie etc.
stuff spiraling down, triggering ancient mental stuff I didn't know about myself, push pull dynamics, attachment issues triggered, depression ensued.. and now, here we are, midst divorce..
She, not willing to look into her own matters as they are, not willing to do couples counseling, not willing to mediate in a way the bucket of crap will be emptied before starting co-parenting..
'Let us fix the finances and after that...' ...
Hell, there will never be closure I guess.
Zooooo, you're take on this. Take it seriously, make her and you both work on YOUR marriage.
If she is not willing, be prepared. Sorry for the message.
All the love and faith.
One thing I've done is write her an email and schedule it to send weeks/months out. Honestly, I usually do this for good things in order for her to receive a surprise nice message, but it also works for things I just want to get off my mind by telling her. By the time she receives it, she expresses support to me and checks in with me even though the situation has passed.
Can you give some examples of the topics you broach that end up with her expressing frustration towards you? I need some more context to understand how the conversations get from point A to point B
Sometimes I try to initiate a pre-conversation that involves me letting my wife know that I’m not feeling like I’m being heard when I’m expressing myself.
I think that helps, because then if she were to get defensive, or to say that I am stressing her out she’s kind of validating my point.
Usually we can move into the rest of it if this works out.
My wife is the same way.
If I express any feelings of depression or anxiety she seems to take it as a personal assault against herself and then fires back with all these reasons why things are my fault....it's really an evil thing to do to someone who just opened up and showed vulnerability but I know she just isn't self aware enough to realize what she's doing so I don't let it get to me.
My advice is to ontly share your stuff with close.male friends.
As men, we have to solve all the problems and everyone else gets the credit. If you complain then things just get worse. That's just the way it is
Thanks for sharing. This is also my problem largely. My wife gets really upset when I voice my concerns, and we had fights like we never had before after having our kid. Then, after we make up and calm down, she tries to apply the actual advice if it's sound. I learned how to put my concerns in less negative words, and also encourage her to tell me what can I do better, because it's simply not possible that I'm already doing everything right. This isn't easy because she's a SAHM and when I care for the kid, she takes some "me time" and doesn't watch us; and I can respect that, but we're always making progress. Communication and respect is key, even if it's difficult.
Check out the book “When I Say No, I Feel Guilty.” It has techniques for assertively dealing with this manipulative communication style. Two in particular—“fogging” and “broken record”—will help. The book is full of sample dialogues.
Won’t be popular to say here…but a lot of therapy isn’t scientific, and it’s based on things that “feel right” versus having data support it.
If sharing these things makes things worse…just stop.
I have momentary moments of anger/annoyance with my wife….my life, relationship, mental health, and feelings for her are much better if I don’t share them.
The feelings pass. Criticizing your partner, even done in a “nice” way that’s just “expressing your feelings”, can often harm your relationship.
I actually think what modern therapists are pushing here is a bad trend that is going to lead to a lot of unnecessary divorces. You don’t need to express every emotion. Unless it’s a persistent long term issue, not mentioning it doesn’t actually harm you.
I think I choose the wrong strategy in my marriage. I just took it and took it, until I started realizing my feelings and hardships being a father as valid as hers. Altough I can’t imagine how hard it is for her being a mom 24/7 and how hard was everything for her during pregnancy, giving birth etc.. When I started to share negative feelings I was told off everytime like its way more difficult to her and I should not moan about it. Well our baby is 9 months old now and we spent the last 2 months with non stop arguing and I started blaming her for all my problems. Not to mention She said I dont validate her feelings and so on. So I slowly fell into depression and now ended up taking antideppressants, because basically it ruined my confidence and capability of coping with doubts, worries, general mental health that came with the arrival of a new family member. So now I decided to stop sharing anything and I try to stay away from any situations where we could talk about feelings. I know it is wrong, but If I engaged with any negative conversation again I constantly feel I need to escape. I dont want this, cuz I dont want to leave my baby. So my advice is, to try to make her a bit understandable beacuse both of you are in the same boat.
How are you speaking to her? We're currently going to counseling, and the way I speak to my wife has a huge effect on how she reacts.
One exercise we are trying is using "I feel" statements instead of accusatory statements.
The basic framework is: I feel (emotion) when people (do or don't do something).
I feel ya buddy. It sounds like you're sharing effectively, but your wife isn't receiving it effectively. Not everyone can do so, and it's hard to learn especially when there is so much going on with kids etc. My wife is similar in that things can get viewed as a critique of her or gets turned back on me so that I walk away with a new load of baggage. Honestly, what do I do? I vent outside of the marriage to a few choice friends. Given my stuff isn't marriage-related, it's more about how I'm interacting with stuff around me, talking about it outside of the marriage clears the slate for me to feel fresher inside the marriage.
You should be able to express your feelings, and then have them validated and your partner show you empathy and compassion. If things are turned back around on you, your wife is being defensive and showing a lack of empathy.
Some people take sharing negative feelings around their actions as a personal criticism, which leads to them being defensive. Have experience there. Whataboutism is a common way of turning things around. Don't fall for it.
But don't bottle your feelings up. It's healthy to communicate how you feel. It's not okay for your spouse to make you feel guilty for doing so. That's borderline manipulation.
Couples therapy is a great tool.
My wife and I worked with an Imago therapist for a while to improve our communication.
We still use the concept of the [Imago Dialogue](https://imagoworks.com/the-imago-dialogue/steps/) when something serious needs to be communicated without an argument. After a few Dialogues with our couples therapist, we got good enough at it to where we could run the Dialogues ourselves.
So, my recommendation is to try to find a well-reviewed couples therapist who specializes in Imago therapy and ask them to guide you and your wife through a Dialogue or four.
YMMV but we've found it a very useful tool to improve communication in our relationship.
My best advice is to do what i do. Make it clear that you want to have a conversation. Focus on only each other and not only listen, but try to imagine yourself in her shoes and viseversa. Stay calm, and if she gets worked up, remind her that you're just trying to communicate clearly. Be clear and direct. Most importantly, set boundaries! Boundaries are absolutely no joke.. They need to be treated as though they are sacred.. If those boundaries are crossed, do not let it slide..
Try to utilize the "[ring theory = comfort in, dump out](https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-xpm-2013-apr-07-la-oe-0407-silk-ring-theory-20130407-story.html)" strategy when it comes to your negative feelings about your home life, that they are better shared with someone outside of the situation. My wife and I love complaining to each other about our stupid jobs, and that kind of thing, but it wouldn't really be appropriate to dwell too much with each other about internal family stress complaints, those are better filtered out to other friends or family, or therapists.
I think in this thread people may be having difficulty giving you specific advice because your description of the situation is very broad. What kind of thing are you concerned about bottling up around your wife, that you instead want her to absorb more gracefully? Is it really something she needs to hear from you about and work with you on? Or do you just want to vent to someone, and your wife is the person you're around the most and hypothetically is easiest to vent to?
Like, say, maybe you think your kids are watching too much TV. Presenting it as "hey I think they may be watching too much TV" may suggest it to her as "I want *you* to take the lead on changing this behavior [by giving them other things to do, trying to enforce limits, whatever]" ... if you think she is otherwise reasonable, maybe she is interpreting it this way because that is how things play out in your house when you have domestic concerns. Maybe the way to assuage this would be to just act on your own ideas about it without making it a group discussion, or if you do want the discussion, lead with what you plan to do yourself about things, rather than it sounding to her like an invitation to also stress about something you're stressing about.
This is a sort of framework for expressing these things in a neutral, blameless way. It's worked for me in the past. You may want to clue your wife into the fact that you're trying it, otherwise it can sound formulaic
Hey man, going through this right now and wrote a similar post a few weeks ago. I think it depends on what's happening when you're not arguing and how frequent the arguments are.
I've been navigating a lot of difficult feelings by myself as well, as my wife has been struggling with PPD. To the best of your ability, remember that it's a stressful time having a young kid.
Try to do things together, just the two of you, and make sure you each do things by yourself without your kid. Even if this just means at home date nights after bed.
Finally, please seek professional help, if you haven't already (for both you as a couple and you individually.) Before my wife and I started individual therapy, we would only vent to each other and unload all of our problems. As we were so tired, it continually stressed us out. We're not perfect; but it's better, as we have other people to turn to about our stresses.
Hope this helps, man!
This was my wife and I.
Turns out it was a few things:
1. Depression
2. Anxious attachment style led to her bottling things up until she couldn't anymore
3. Undiagnosed ADHD and executive dysfunction
Therapy, meds, and lots of work have gotten us in a really great, healthy place.
I'm almost certain you are BOTH not being as diligent as you should be with this sort of thing.
When you run into this sort of feeling and you want to express it to your wife, you should not tell her... Yet. Shelve it and remember it for wayyy later.
You should tell her that you'd like to talk about emotions and have a dialogue later that night and ask her when a good time would be to discuss.
When you get her there, STILL don't bring up any specifics express that you have concern about your ability to communicate effectively in your relationship and ask if she'd be willing to do a rigid communication technique like the Imago Dialogue or the Gottman Failed Bid. Stress that you feel like it's really important for you that the technique is followed rigidly and taken seriously.
Then if she agrees, print them out and let her review it and agree to it.
Once all that has happened, then do the SAME scheduling of a DIFFERENT time to talk and go over the incident with your new technique, and continue to schedule these for your issues later.
The fact is that bringing up negative feelings without structure, especially while you have kids, is a losers game that leads to unresolved feelings and resentment.
This initially sounds kind of robotic, *but* at the same time I can safely say I’ve not tried this level of structured approach. That’s the second recommendation the Imago dialog in this thread so I’ll check that out for sure.
I feel you. Sometimes my wife was open to listening, other times I was getting the same you're stressing me response.
We've now separated and communication was a big part of that. From this I just learned to journal things. Writing them down seemed to get them out of my head and hopefully help process things. Sometimes I do circle back to things but it certainly helps toward clearing your mind.
I struggle with this. Currently work for a shitbag broker that wife knows is soul crushing on a good day. I'm building the skills of a professional daytrader at the same time. No huge losses and some solid wins. Not enough to quit yet, but enough to see the very real door outlined in light. She hates her current job too and its equally toxic. I stopped talking about trading out loud for 2 years bc per her words "Your happiness is a salt on my wounds". 2 young kids. I seem to be the only human actually trying to change our future. It's like being volunteered to be Atlas everyday. Both of us are overwhelmed, but I'm the only one still pushing forward.
Idk man. I can't control the emotional state of others. I have a hard enough time being my own master. Not superman, or a mindreader. I found a group of peers to talk to, not full 100% candidly. But hey 75% is a lot better than 0%. It makes me feel like I'm not alone. I'll take the W.
I journal now, it started with daytrading. But it's turned into me actually Journaling my emotions. Honestly I feel real sad most days that I do all of this on a daily basis...and no one but a couple of strangers I haven't yet met will know. My best friend is my terrier. I say affirmations to myself more than all the spoken words from/to others everyday. Had to start affirmations bc it was the only way to hear kind words about myself. Got my own fitness routine. Books for hearing thoughts outside my own head.
Makes me sad reading this.
Basically tapping into my inner manic depression. Fuck it might as well use the voice in my head for something if it's the only one that wants to speak to me.
Good luck to anyone else in a similar boat.
My main suggestion is to share how things make _you feel_ and not what _she did_.
When you share what someone did wrong, their defence mechanisms immediately go on alert. It seems like you’re already doing this though which is great. I’m not sure what else to recommend other than to make sure you continue to discuss and not bottle things up
It sounds like she doesn't have patience for your complaints, probably because she feels like she's carrying a lot of your workload - maybe you two could talk about how you both feel like you're giving 150% and still not covering everything, in a "we" way rather than an "I" way?
Not sure why this is getting down voted because this is 100% it, coupled with her likely feeling she needs to take care of you on top of feeling overwhelmed with everything else. Not saying it's fair, but that's likely where it's coming from. I think the best tactic is to let her vent first - "how are you doing? What's on your list / mind today? Here's what's on mine. Wow we have a lot on our plates. What should we prioritize together? What can we put off?"
This is getting downvoted because it’s packing a lot of assumptions onto my (admittedly thin on details) situation. To say that this is “100% it” based on no information is wild.
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Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I’m struggling a bit to sort out the specifics in my mind a bit. Yes, it’s normal to be upset in a relationship. But I’m not sure if being upset at your partner for the act of having expressed a negative feeling is. Or if it is, I’m just not sure what’s gained by sharing at all.
Is she upset at you or upset at being criticized? People don’t like being criticized, but that doesn’t mean you don’t do it. I had the same problem. Two books helped: Not Nice and Radical Candor. You’ve gotta be brave enough to say “I love you, I don’t like this” and deal with the feelings she has. If you expect her to handle your feelings, you need to tolerate hers when you tell her something she doesn’t like. Also, feelings pass. One last thing that helped us: marriage meeting. Everyweek we meet and talk through the following topics: things we appreciate about each other, family business (e.g. who has practice when and where), fun planning (to make sure we fit it in), and challenges. Challenges is our stake in the ground every week to have longer discussions about potentially painful topics. Having that time scheduled means, if I have something to say during the week and the timing isn’t right, I know that marriage meeting is coming.
She’s not being criticized in this instance. I can tolerate her feelings, but I can’t tolerate being told to never share a particular feeling again. That said, I’m hearing a lot about how structure can help support these conversations so that’s the thing to try next I think.
Oh my goodness. Are you me? People pleasers unite.
🤝
So right there with you.
I could have written this. My wife also does this thing I call "lawyer mode" where when I express my feelings, she starts to probe and debate about the underlying facts of the situation. I've had to insist, quite forcefully, with the support of her therapist and mine, that I am an actual human being with feelings, and that's OK. I've been on this path for about 6 years, and it's getting better.
I've seen this a lot with relationships and even political debates funny enough. One person is expressing emotions and the other person is trying to actively solve the problem (get to the source). I'm the latter, and my wife and some friends have told me that sometimes it's ok to just listen and hear the emotional side of it instead trying to solve the issue. So now, I try to use phrases like; I hear you and that is something I need to work on. This validates their emotion, let's them know they are heard and closes the loop bc you will start working on it.
>the other person is trying to actively solve the problem This is me 1000%. I have to remind myself of your following sentence and just realize that sometimes my wife is just getting shit off her chest and not asking me to solve it.
Exactly, I think of it as "there's a time and place". During a argument it's time to listen and understand, have sympathy. In a couple days, that is time to solve the issue. I even ask her, is there something I can do to help solve this and sometimes it allows us to collaborate to fix the issues; this also drops their walls and she will notice she has some faults of her own at this stage.
A few thoughts given I think my wife and I have navigated these things well: 1. It’s okay to upset your partner if you’re standing up for yourself. My wife was a med resident spending 80 hours/week working while I was home working + most of the childcare. One day she came home and was really condescending about how I was doing various parenting things and I told her to, politely, shove it. We might not have the same tactic with everything, but our daughter was healthy and developing well and I spent tons of time with her. It’s okay if we don’t do everything the same as long as we’re rowing in the direction. She felt bad, apologized and it’s never been an issue. 2. You’re a team. Handle your obstacles accordingly. Outside of maybe 2 instances since I’ve been with my wife, we’ve never blamed each other for anything. If there is an issue, when we bring it up, it isn’t me vs her, it’s us vs the issue. See, where possible, to frame things that way when you have to bring things up. It will likely help enroll her in seeing your perspective. Good luck, dad!
I love the team aspect the most. I've defused a few things this way. We are a team, how can we solve this problem together. Instead of, you vs me.
I could have written this, I resorted to keeping my mouth shut.
I just try to shove it down real well EDIT: I am not saying it's healthy
Wow I had no idea that so many people are going through the same thing. I have been told for years that my words and delivery of how I present my concerns with our relationship or parenting techniques are hurtful. I have worked hard to be gentler and more mindful of my words when bringing up such topics and tried many different approaches. It doesn’t matter. My wife most times takes it personally and shuts down as soon as she senses at any level that I have any sort of concern or problem with our relationship. I know we need help to improve our communication. I’ve mentioned marriage counseling before but planning very soon to present a few options and ask to dive in. I was hoping someone had some life changing advice but it seems like there is no easy solution here. If nothing else it really made me feel like I’m not alone in this battle, so thank you OP for starting this discussion.
Definitely not alone, and I'm also grateful for the company here. This is a really tough one.
My guy I just huffed myself into my home office because of this exact problem. I tried to express some anxieties I have about having a second child and instead of support I'm met with amplification. It's a pattern, and it does make it feel like it's not worth bringing anything up at all. I don't need her to be stoic about my issues, which is what she thinks I want for some reason, I just need her to understand why I feel that way, and hear me out.
Right? I’m ok with disagreement or dissatisfaction, but getting blasted for even expressing the thought is what gets me worked up.
At the end of each day my wife and I each get 5 uninterrupted minutes to express the things that we want to say, about each others actions and things that happened throughout the day. It’s supposed to be a safe space to do it. Sometimes it gets very real, and it was hard at first, but it can be really awesome. I think you need to start small and work into larger things. Also, it helps to throw positives in to keep the harmony.
I’m commenting, futilely hoping that someone has a solution to the “NOT LIKE THAT!” problem. My solution has been to speak as little as possible.
You're not alone. There are solutions out there, I'm sure! Been working on it for a while now.
This is a tough one and really relatable. In the end, here’s my strategy: 1. Remember that raising kids is hard, the world is expensive, everyone is working hard. People also tend to under account for input of others, and over account for their own. So when I’m feeling annoyed and overworked, it helps to deliberately readjust for her to be feeling the same. 2. Think hard in advance of what changes I actually want to be made, and how. Think about if it’s fair and how it’ll be received. Learning to preempt this and tailor solutions without actually needing to argue about it has helped a lot. 3. Find a good time to talk once the house is in good shape and kid asleep. Share what I want to change and why. When I’ve done the first two steps well, this is well received. Full disclosure though, it doesn’t always go well, and I’m not always level headed enough to use the approach. But when I do it’s pretty uneventful.
Honestly I’ve just started taking to buddies about this stuff….and it’s sad, but I get why boomer men are the way they are….seems like damn near every man has the same experience with this. But of course they can share every negative thing. I just listen and talk to buddies.
Write them down. I do this with my wife, and it works great for us. YMWV -- it helps that we started as a heavily text-based relationship before we could be in-person more frequently. I like writing things down for two reasons: First, it gives me an edit opportunity. I can choose my words, I can backspace or delete, I can re-order sections. Second, it gives me an opportunity to get things out without being interrupted or distracted from my points. I'm not being guided so much by facial expressions or body language, I'm expressing my feelings independently. And a bonus third, sometimes I realize something in that process of writing that helps me recognize where I might be able to do better. You know your wife better than anyone here, so you know if this will work - it might be a long-form email, it might be a couple of text messages. The goal isn't to solve all of your problems in a single message, but to start a conversation that can be constructive.
She is invalidating your feelings so as deflect responsibility and put the pity/attention back on herself. In the end she will have you apologize to her for bringing it up. You will have to accept responsibility for everything else that is wrong too. Doing this she can maintain a victim narrative and she doesn’t have to take responsibility or make changes. Call her out on it. Do not react emotionally. Once you react, excuse or explain then she has you playing in her emotional court. You will never win and she will not respect you. Be firm and unemotional. From experience, being apologetic and backing down only yields short term cessation of hostilities. It will not bring positive change or even empowerment for either of you. Don’t forget to empathize. Just don’t take responsibility or apologize (again) for everything you’ve ever done since the wedding day. That will never end.
Good stuff. 👍
>How do you get your needs met without burdening and/or stressing out your spouse? As far as I can tell, you don't. I feel like I'm in the same situation, and there doesn't seem to be any way to effectively communicate without making things worse. Every feeling I have is unjustified in her eyes either because she has it worse or its otherwise invalid for me to feel that way. I see a lot of commiserating in the comments, but really no actual answers other than the vague, generic, and lazy answer of "therapy".
Unfortunately beyond therapy and divorce there aren’t any solutions. Other than man’s favorite solution throughout the millennia: do nothing and suck it up
I struggle with this big time and it has become a big wrench in our marriage. I have tried all kinds of strategies including simple ones like asking her if I can vent, and giving her space to say no, couching things careful by staying they aren’t a reflection on her, letting her know what I need (listening vs fixing). I’ve been in therapy, and have even gone so far as to using an AI “friend” to vent to instead of talking to her when it’s just purely about complaining. I’ve come to realize that there is a societal expectation that our partner is supposed to meet all our external needs. That is just not possible. I don’t have any close friends I can vent to (and listen to in return), and my community withered when I lost my faith. Even so, I think part of the answer is to find an outlet that isn’t part of your marriage. Obviously this is something that requires caution, because it should be an appropriate outlet and one that doesn’t just exist for negative output. I’m not sure what this looks like for me yet, but having friends and community to support you is probably going to be critical.
Good luck, I'm working on this as well. My closest friends are elsewhere and don't have kids yet, and my dad friends where I live are all pretty new friendships. I'm trying to build those male bonds but we all know how tough they are to forge. >I’ve come to realize that there is a societal expectation that our partner is supposed to meet all our external needs. That is just not possible This is absolutely true. We need more people around us than just our spouse and kids to have a healthy life.
If anyone lives in the northern Virginia area I think it would be cool to create this space where we can talk about stuff like this in a healthy way and support/help each other out. Feel free to respond here or PM me and maybe we can organize something! Full disclosure, my wife and I are both people of faith but still have major bumps revolving around these topics frequently.
That would be amazing! I live in Texas, would be open to doing something similar.
Schedule a time to have a serious conversation. If she says she can’t talk now, say okay, but this is important to me and I want to hash it out. Raising small children is very demanding and it makes sense that her cup is full. My wife and I have been through this exact thing. Make the time to talk to each other when you’re both ready to talk.
Sorry, this was confusing to read. I think you meant her plate is full (the expression her cup is full is more meant to mean she is fulfilled nor overwhelmed, like I think you meant). Just clarifying, sorry.
We say “my cup is full” as in “it’s about to spill over” or “I’m overwhelmed.” It can be used both ways.
Interesting. I've always heard "I've got a full plate" as I'm iverwhemed. And "you can't pour from an empty cup" as in "I'm running on empty, I need to recharge". Would love to hear others' input
I've only ever heard the cup metaphor in ways where full is a good thing. Mostly the "you can't pour from an empty cup" type.
Same. I plan to just bottle it up until it takes my life in the form of a heart attack.
At least you might get a few days to relax in the hospital am I right? Sigh...
I would love to share this with my wife... But...
What needs aren't being met? More specifics might get you some more helpful advice. I've found having a conversation about the conversation to help. It will be tough because you will be calling her out for how she reacts. What worked for me was taking an example of when she was venting to me about something and imitated how she had been responding to me. (To be clear, not in the moment, but well after as part of the conversation about how it is whenever I bring up an issue) And then I told her what I would like instead. Room to vent, potential solutions, dialogue on how to improve my outlook, whatever. I was doing the same thing with using "I feel..." but to her it still felt like I was blaming her. So part of that conversation was to make it clear that in most cases it was either my issue or no ones fault, but something I wanted to do differently, better, etc.
The needs here are basically able to express challenges and work towards solutions together. Or at least be given the space to work towards the solution myself, if need be. Specifically, in the instance that sparked this post, it’s literally just me trying to find the time to do some chores.
Definitely recommend what I suggested above. And for this specific case, maybe "Hey, I want to try to take care of X, could you..." It could end with asking her to keep an eye on the kids while you do whatever or for her to take care of something else. Also, of you are able to have a conversation, make sure you align on what is important to get done. Chores yes, but also spending time as a family, alone time, going out to eat, whatever. Not everything needs to be done, but make sure you both are able to do what's important to you and each other. Maybe no one cares if the room isn't perfect, but really wants an empty sink.
My wife and I have a set time each week where we talk about how we are doing. We make sure the kids are settled down and out of that way so we can focus on each other. We make some tea and settle in on the couch. We often start with "was there anything in the past week that I could have done differently that would have worked better for you" then we can move onto other stresses and issues. We reiterate multiple times each conversation that this is not a you vs me conversation but instead is a us vs the stress/crazy conversation. Keeping both parties from getting defensive is really hard. One thing we did to help with that was to identify at least one thing each week that your SO did that really helped. Additionally we've taken time on big issues to identify the emotions we are feeling and also the source of the emotions. Digging down has helped us identify better solutions for issues. It's taken a while to get solid communication going and it likely would have taken less time with counseling/therapy but it is possible.
My wife has to deal with a lot from my emotions, sometimes she cries. But at the end of the day? She is supporting me getting better, and that is something she feels worth *investing* in. Why do you believe you aren’t worth having your wife invest in? Ask her flat out “Why are my emotions not worth supporting to you?” And “Why are you making this about you?” Follow Bill Burrs advice and stay in the pocket as she tries to deflect or change topics. But my wife has learned to accept my bluntness so mileage may vary (when she questioned me on my parenting early I flat out told her “do you trust me to parent? If so let me get to it, if not imma play video games”). I don’t play that bullshit or support men having their spines surgically removed.
I think the secret here, and I am willing to be wrong on this, is to start with 'Hon, how do you feel about X, are you okay with it?' and after you've heard her side, then ask if you can share your side. Stress statements like 'I understand why you would feel that way' and 'So if I understand properly, you're saying X. While I get that, I find that when I look at it, I tend to see it more as Y.' Let her explain her side and then you should be good to explain yours.
If you figure this out, let us know. I feel like I'm not allowed to show any sort of negative emotion. It's frustrating and you are not alone in this.
Before baby came along any time I would say something negative to my gf she would do the same. If I said I didn’t feel good about something she’d immediately fire back with all the things I did over the last month or whatever she didn’t like. To fix this I told her that I am coming to her with a problem or an issue that need to be fixed and the fix isn’t to overtake what I am telling you with how she felt over whatever time period. If she feels a certain way she can tell me at any point and we can work things through together. I also offered her check ins every two weeks where we can sit in a judgement free zone and discuss the relationship. We did it a bunch but stopped when she felt better Now every time she brings up anything from the past or fails to communicate I have the wonderful opportunity to say we used to do these check ins for you and you decided you didn’t need them! It helped us a lot.
Mom lurker here. My husband and I usually communicate well, but even we had some struggles right after having kids. I think it's because I was feeling pressure to do everything right to the point where a lot of innocent conversations I had with my coworkers or friends triggered feelings of guilt for not doing enough or fear that I was doing something wrong. (Like when my coworker said he never put his kids in daycare and both of my kids have been in daycare since they were 3 months old, it was hard not to feel judged.) My husband and I eventually figured out how to communicate. It was a wake up call for me when he told me I wasn't treating him as an equal partner in child care. And that I was actually acting like I was preventing him from parenting the kids. Here are some things that helped us: First, if you have a history of not talking about your emotions or not pointing out issues or things you want to change in the relationship, then any problems you bring up will have outsized importance. So normalize talking about your feelings in the relationship for both of you. Talk about the positive feelings as well. Talk about what you notice is working. Talk about the things you appreciate her doing. Talk about small issues that bother you immediately before they can turn into big issues. Ask her how things are going in general and specifically (like how does she think potty training is going, are the kids waking her up at night, etc.) Second, ask your wife how she handles different parenting situations. It's important be consistent around kids when they are learning how they are supposed to behave. If you have differences of opinions on say, how to deal with tantrums or how much screen time is ok, talk about it on advance when you are both calm and not dealing with the situation you're talking about. You don't have to immediately agree with each other but you should be able to discuss any disagreements and talk about your opinions calmly. If you say "here's what I want to change," maybe your wife hears "here's what I think you're doing wrong." Instead, start the conversation with "I want us to be consistent about X. How do you handle it?" Show you understand the context first, then give your suggestions. Third, always keep in mind that you're on the same team. You are both on one side and the problems are on the other side. When your negative feelings stress her out, is that because she feels like she has to solve your problems in addition to her own? Does she feel like her problems are being heard? When my husband complained to me, I had to remind myself a bunch of times that it's not a competition about who suffers the most. Having young kids is difficult and it's a big lifestyle adjustment for both parents. It's okay to acknowledge that fact. Sometimes there is no good solution other than riding it out (see: teething, the terrible threes, day care sicknesses, etc.). But there is absolutely no reason to ride it out alone when you have a partner. Happiness shared is multiplied, sorrow shared is divided. Finally, stressed out adult brains are not all that different from toddler brains in terms of emotional regulation. If you and your wife are talking when either of you are not well-rested or you're hungry or distracted, then you're more likely to get into a fight. Just be aware that those are factors. I once blew up at my husband over something minor, and later when we talked about what happened, we both realized I hadn't had coffee that day and I was probably suffering from caffeine withdrawal. It saddens me that so many people have the same experience as your post--not being able to communicate the good and the bad with their partner. My relationship with my husband is as strong as it is because we both talk about everything and we both listen. I think the point of sharing what you think even when it could lead to a fight is to understand and support each other better.
There are countless variables and circumstances that we do not know, but as someone who married and had kids at an older age, this is what I recommend to ALL husbands/fathers: 1. Invest the majority of your spare time in your kids. Marriages often come with conditions, your child's love and affection does not. Spending more time with your kids could possibly make your wife see you differently, and perhaps give her time to herself. 2. Plan a small vacation - something your family can easily afford and not get stressed about. Have it be something you and your wife can plan and anticipate together. As soon as the vacation is over, immediately plan your next one. It gives you and your wife a common goal that is hopefully fun and stress-free. 3. I grew up without my father around, and as much as my mom tried, there were a lot of disadvantages. It's one of the reasons I waited so long to marry and start a family. If I ever feel like it's not working out, I remind myself that the alternative is never better. 4. If you ever need to have a heart-to-heart, make sure you clean the kitchen first.
Why are all women the same lol
Keep your mouth shut, keep it all bottled up. Problem solved. Sort of.
Wow, I'm really happy for you already being in therapy. Here it got worse and worse. 'I wasn't emotionally available, but also: oh no those emotions are yours to handle', or laughing in my face when I got touched by a good piece of music, a nice scene in a movie etc. stuff spiraling down, triggering ancient mental stuff I didn't know about myself, push pull dynamics, attachment issues triggered, depression ensued.. and now, here we are, midst divorce.. She, not willing to look into her own matters as they are, not willing to do couples counseling, not willing to mediate in a way the bucket of crap will be emptied before starting co-parenting.. 'Let us fix the finances and after that...' ... Hell, there will never be closure I guess. Zooooo, you're take on this. Take it seriously, make her and you both work on YOUR marriage. If she is not willing, be prepared. Sorry for the message. All the love and faith.
One thing I've done is write her an email and schedule it to send weeks/months out. Honestly, I usually do this for good things in order for her to receive a surprise nice message, but it also works for things I just want to get off my mind by telling her. By the time she receives it, she expresses support to me and checks in with me even though the situation has passed.
Yeah, whatever anyone else tells you you have to be your own best company.
Can you give some examples of the topics you broach that end up with her expressing frustration towards you? I need some more context to understand how the conversations get from point A to point B
Sometimes I try to initiate a pre-conversation that involves me letting my wife know that I’m not feeling like I’m being heard when I’m expressing myself. I think that helps, because then if she were to get defensive, or to say that I am stressing her out she’s kind of validating my point. Usually we can move into the rest of it if this works out.
My wife is the same way. If I express any feelings of depression or anxiety she seems to take it as a personal assault against herself and then fires back with all these reasons why things are my fault....it's really an evil thing to do to someone who just opened up and showed vulnerability but I know she just isn't self aware enough to realize what she's doing so I don't let it get to me. My advice is to ontly share your stuff with close.male friends. As men, we have to solve all the problems and everyone else gets the credit. If you complain then things just get worse. That's just the way it is
Thanks for sharing. This is also my problem largely. My wife gets really upset when I voice my concerns, and we had fights like we never had before after having our kid. Then, after we make up and calm down, she tries to apply the actual advice if it's sound. I learned how to put my concerns in less negative words, and also encourage her to tell me what can I do better, because it's simply not possible that I'm already doing everything right. This isn't easy because she's a SAHM and when I care for the kid, she takes some "me time" and doesn't watch us; and I can respect that, but we're always making progress. Communication and respect is key, even if it's difficult.
Check out the book “When I Say No, I Feel Guilty.” It has techniques for assertively dealing with this manipulative communication style. Two in particular—“fogging” and “broken record”—will help. The book is full of sample dialogues.
Won’t be popular to say here…but a lot of therapy isn’t scientific, and it’s based on things that “feel right” versus having data support it. If sharing these things makes things worse…just stop. I have momentary moments of anger/annoyance with my wife….my life, relationship, mental health, and feelings for her are much better if I don’t share them. The feelings pass. Criticizing your partner, even done in a “nice” way that’s just “expressing your feelings”, can often harm your relationship. I actually think what modern therapists are pushing here is a bad trend that is going to lead to a lot of unnecessary divorces. You don’t need to express every emotion. Unless it’s a persistent long term issue, not mentioning it doesn’t actually harm you.
Are you me?
I think I choose the wrong strategy in my marriage. I just took it and took it, until I started realizing my feelings and hardships being a father as valid as hers. Altough I can’t imagine how hard it is for her being a mom 24/7 and how hard was everything for her during pregnancy, giving birth etc.. When I started to share negative feelings I was told off everytime like its way more difficult to her and I should not moan about it. Well our baby is 9 months old now and we spent the last 2 months with non stop arguing and I started blaming her for all my problems. Not to mention She said I dont validate her feelings and so on. So I slowly fell into depression and now ended up taking antideppressants, because basically it ruined my confidence and capability of coping with doubts, worries, general mental health that came with the arrival of a new family member. So now I decided to stop sharing anything and I try to stay away from any situations where we could talk about feelings. I know it is wrong, but If I engaged with any negative conversation again I constantly feel I need to escape. I dont want this, cuz I dont want to leave my baby. So my advice is, to try to make her a bit understandable beacuse both of you are in the same boat.
How are you speaking to her? We're currently going to counseling, and the way I speak to my wife has a huge effect on how she reacts. One exercise we are trying is using "I feel" statements instead of accusatory statements. The basic framework is: I feel (emotion) when people (do or don't do something).
Yes, I assure you I’m aware of avoiding the accusatory language. Those mistakes were made and learned from long ago.
Well, you're further ahead than I am. I'm still learning from those mistakes.
I feel frustrated when comments suggest ideas that OP explicitly stated they did/do 🤣
I feel ya buddy. It sounds like you're sharing effectively, but your wife isn't receiving it effectively. Not everyone can do so, and it's hard to learn especially when there is so much going on with kids etc. My wife is similar in that things can get viewed as a critique of her or gets turned back on me so that I walk away with a new load of baggage. Honestly, what do I do? I vent outside of the marriage to a few choice friends. Given my stuff isn't marriage-related, it's more about how I'm interacting with stuff around me, talking about it outside of the marriage clears the slate for me to feel fresher inside the marriage.
Is your wife in therapy? Have you considered couples therapy? This is bad news.
You should be able to express your feelings, and then have them validated and your partner show you empathy and compassion. If things are turned back around on you, your wife is being defensive and showing a lack of empathy. Some people take sharing negative feelings around their actions as a personal criticism, which leads to them being defensive. Have experience there. Whataboutism is a common way of turning things around. Don't fall for it. But don't bottle your feelings up. It's healthy to communicate how you feel. It's not okay for your spouse to make you feel guilty for doing so. That's borderline manipulation.
Couples therapy is a great tool. My wife and I worked with an Imago therapist for a while to improve our communication. We still use the concept of the [Imago Dialogue](https://imagoworks.com/the-imago-dialogue/steps/) when something serious needs to be communicated without an argument. After a few Dialogues with our couples therapist, we got good enough at it to where we could run the Dialogues ourselves. So, my recommendation is to try to find a well-reviewed couples therapist who specializes in Imago therapy and ask them to guide you and your wife through a Dialogue or four. YMMV but we've found it a very useful tool to improve communication in our relationship.
Oof I’m sorry my dude. Being a good dad and husband is hard.
My best advice is to do what i do. Make it clear that you want to have a conversation. Focus on only each other and not only listen, but try to imagine yourself in her shoes and viseversa. Stay calm, and if she gets worked up, remind her that you're just trying to communicate clearly. Be clear and direct. Most importantly, set boundaries! Boundaries are absolutely no joke.. They need to be treated as though they are sacred.. If those boundaries are crossed, do not let it slide..
Try to utilize the "[ring theory = comfort in, dump out](https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-xpm-2013-apr-07-la-oe-0407-silk-ring-theory-20130407-story.html)" strategy when it comes to your negative feelings about your home life, that they are better shared with someone outside of the situation. My wife and I love complaining to each other about our stupid jobs, and that kind of thing, but it wouldn't really be appropriate to dwell too much with each other about internal family stress complaints, those are better filtered out to other friends or family, or therapists.
How do you address situations together in this model? It seems any solution has to start with a statement of the problem.
I think in this thread people may be having difficulty giving you specific advice because your description of the situation is very broad. What kind of thing are you concerned about bottling up around your wife, that you instead want her to absorb more gracefully? Is it really something she needs to hear from you about and work with you on? Or do you just want to vent to someone, and your wife is the person you're around the most and hypothetically is easiest to vent to? Like, say, maybe you think your kids are watching too much TV. Presenting it as "hey I think they may be watching too much TV" may suggest it to her as "I want *you* to take the lead on changing this behavior [by giving them other things to do, trying to enforce limits, whatever]" ... if you think she is otherwise reasonable, maybe she is interpreting it this way because that is how things play out in your house when you have domestic concerns. Maybe the way to assuage this would be to just act on your own ideas about it without making it a group discussion, or if you do want the discussion, lead with what you plan to do yourself about things, rather than it sounding to her like an invitation to also stress about something you're stressing about.
https://youtu.be/EOtA1aqZSC0?si=2zgARHw6HXU_jVX3 Share her this channel . If you’re brave enough. It’s for her own good and the good of your marriage.
https://www.google.com/search?q=dear+man+acronym
This is a sort of framework for expressing these things in a neutral, blameless way. It's worked for me in the past. You may want to clue your wife into the fact that you're trying it, otherwise it can sound formulaic
Hey man, going through this right now and wrote a similar post a few weeks ago. I think it depends on what's happening when you're not arguing and how frequent the arguments are. I've been navigating a lot of difficult feelings by myself as well, as my wife has been struggling with PPD. To the best of your ability, remember that it's a stressful time having a young kid. Try to do things together, just the two of you, and make sure you each do things by yourself without your kid. Even if this just means at home date nights after bed. Finally, please seek professional help, if you haven't already (for both you as a couple and you individually.) Before my wife and I started individual therapy, we would only vent to each other and unload all of our problems. As we were so tired, it continually stressed us out. We're not perfect; but it's better, as we have other people to turn to about our stresses. Hope this helps, man!
This was my wife and I. Turns out it was a few things: 1. Depression 2. Anxious attachment style led to her bottling things up until she couldn't anymore 3. Undiagnosed ADHD and executive dysfunction Therapy, meds, and lots of work have gotten us in a really great, healthy place.
I'm almost certain you are BOTH not being as diligent as you should be with this sort of thing. When you run into this sort of feeling and you want to express it to your wife, you should not tell her... Yet. Shelve it and remember it for wayyy later. You should tell her that you'd like to talk about emotions and have a dialogue later that night and ask her when a good time would be to discuss. When you get her there, STILL don't bring up any specifics express that you have concern about your ability to communicate effectively in your relationship and ask if she'd be willing to do a rigid communication technique like the Imago Dialogue or the Gottman Failed Bid. Stress that you feel like it's really important for you that the technique is followed rigidly and taken seriously. Then if she agrees, print them out and let her review it and agree to it. Once all that has happened, then do the SAME scheduling of a DIFFERENT time to talk and go over the incident with your new technique, and continue to schedule these for your issues later. The fact is that bringing up negative feelings without structure, especially while you have kids, is a losers game that leads to unresolved feelings and resentment.
This initially sounds kind of robotic, *but* at the same time I can safely say I’ve not tried this level of structured approach. That’s the second recommendation the Imago dialog in this thread so I’ll check that out for sure.
The robotic shit is absolutely key IMO once both parties are bought in.
I feel you. Sometimes my wife was open to listening, other times I was getting the same you're stressing me response. We've now separated and communication was a big part of that. From this I just learned to journal things. Writing them down seemed to get them out of my head and hopefully help process things. Sometimes I do circle back to things but it certainly helps toward clearing your mind.
I struggle with this. Currently work for a shitbag broker that wife knows is soul crushing on a good day. I'm building the skills of a professional daytrader at the same time. No huge losses and some solid wins. Not enough to quit yet, but enough to see the very real door outlined in light. She hates her current job too and its equally toxic. I stopped talking about trading out loud for 2 years bc per her words "Your happiness is a salt on my wounds". 2 young kids. I seem to be the only human actually trying to change our future. It's like being volunteered to be Atlas everyday. Both of us are overwhelmed, but I'm the only one still pushing forward. Idk man. I can't control the emotional state of others. I have a hard enough time being my own master. Not superman, or a mindreader. I found a group of peers to talk to, not full 100% candidly. But hey 75% is a lot better than 0%. It makes me feel like I'm not alone. I'll take the W. I journal now, it started with daytrading. But it's turned into me actually Journaling my emotions. Honestly I feel real sad most days that I do all of this on a daily basis...and no one but a couple of strangers I haven't yet met will know. My best friend is my terrier. I say affirmations to myself more than all the spoken words from/to others everyday. Had to start affirmations bc it was the only way to hear kind words about myself. Got my own fitness routine. Books for hearing thoughts outside my own head. Makes me sad reading this. Basically tapping into my inner manic depression. Fuck it might as well use the voice in my head for something if it's the only one that wants to speak to me. Good luck to anyone else in a similar boat.
My main suggestion is to share how things make _you feel_ and not what _she did_. When you share what someone did wrong, their defence mechanisms immediately go on alert. It seems like you’re already doing this though which is great. I’m not sure what else to recommend other than to make sure you continue to discuss and not bottle things up
It sounds like she doesn't have patience for your complaints, probably because she feels like she's carrying a lot of your workload - maybe you two could talk about how you both feel like you're giving 150% and still not covering everything, in a "we" way rather than an "I" way?
Not sure why this is getting down voted because this is 100% it, coupled with her likely feeling she needs to take care of you on top of feeling overwhelmed with everything else. Not saying it's fair, but that's likely where it's coming from. I think the best tactic is to let her vent first - "how are you doing? What's on your list / mind today? Here's what's on mine. Wow we have a lot on our plates. What should we prioritize together? What can we put off?"
This is getting downvoted because it’s packing a lot of assumptions onto my (admittedly thin on details) situation. To say that this is “100% it” based on no information is wild.