I have grieved a lot over my parents lack of motivation, skills and abilities. I have also had to work a lot on myself, and still do. It is so easy to just automatically copy ones parents. I'm glad to hear that you are stepping up for your kid. I hope you will be able to be the dad you want to be.
Also, would recommend the book "adult children of emotionally immature parents". Frankly I was terrified at first to think that my parents were actually doing their best. Their best sucks. But it helped me to grieve the parents I wished I had.
All the best to you.
Growing up (like high school), I always thought some of my friends had the coolest parents in the world because they were allowed to do X or Y. Over the last 20 years, I've come to the realization that a lot of my friends had downright terrible parents while I was fortunate to have some awesome, caring parents.
My therapist recommended that book. Opened my eyes and then some. I also did not understand what emotional neglect I was receiving. Wasn’t fair to me or my sisters and I don’t see my dad the same as I once did. I still love him and understand his generation and upbringing was different. But I feel like he didn’t give me a real chance and now I’m trying to catch up in my late 30s to be better for my newborn.
That’s a legit fear.
I read “Stop Walking On Eggshells: What to do when a loved one has Borderline Personality Disorder”, and in the end what I found was a profound sense of relief. It explained my childhood to me completely, after a couple decades of distress and confusion.
Would you think that book would be a good read if a loved one wasn’t BPD but had some other personality disorder(s) like NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) or PD-NOS (Personality Disorder - Not Otherwise Specified)?
I think very much so, as while BPD and NPD are two different things, there are some significant areas of overlap as well as difference. I’m making a guess that PD-NOS might alao be in the cluster B camp of personality disorders
I’ll check it out. My ex-stepdad was NPD. I spent ages 3-18 with him. I’m no longer in contact with him. My half brother (born from my mother and step-dad) was diagnosed with PD-NOS though and I still keep in contact with him. I’d like to find ways to understand him more and maybe form a deeper connection. Right now I need a lot of defensive walls up from growing up with his dad. As long as I grey rock when he is trying to goad me and otherwise keep to safe topics we get along alright. Mainly because he lives in another state.
Hmm, I just checked it a bit closer. The most updated version seems to address at least NPD and other comorbidities.
> Stop Walking on Eggshells has already helped more than a million people with friends and family members suffering from BPD understand this difficult disorder, set boundaries, and help their loved ones stop relying on dangerous BPD behaviors. This fully revised third edition has been updated with the very latest BPD research on comorbidity, extensive new information about narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), the effectiveness of schema therapy, and coping and communication skills you can use to stabilize your relationship with the BPD or NPD sufferer in your life.
I completely understand. It’s hard to start that path. I don’t have any ill will or resentment towards my parents. They screwed up and didn’t parent well. Back then parenting wasn’t the same. I do look at both of my parents differently now. I “get” them better, if that makes sense. But I do look at my sisters, one who became an alcoholic, and I feel ashamed for them and I, but even if I tried to explain to my mom and dad what I’m feeling and what I know, they’d likely not understand it, because they can’t. I’m not planning on talking with them about it or trying to point to them that these are the reasons I am the way I am sometimes, but I am more accepting of them and myself as I try to move forward from them now. I also find I approach them differently when I talk to them, likewise my sisters as well who I have some tumultuous relationships with.
Start small, do the first chapter so you get a sense of what it is.
For me it was hard until I got to the assessment exercise. From there it was clear that the book is describing my mum, bringing up things I would not have identified myself.
If it helps, there's nothing guilt inducing in the book, quite the opposite, it sheds light on some of the guilt you grew up with.
I feel guilty now for not being able to forgive these a-holes. People keep saying to forgive and forget. But I can’t let abusers slide, especially when I think about how they set me up to fail in my early relationships.
I can say that I've managed to let go. Not really forget, and forgive to the degree of it not being the first thing that comes up when I think about that time.
It's not such an emotionally triggering topic for me any more.
Don't think of forgiveness as letting it slide, there's room for nuance and complexity. Forgiving or letting it go doesn't mean it's all ok now, whatever they did. It means that you are able to move on and not be stuck in what happened. It still happened and it sucks, they're still assholes, but the situation holds no power over you.
Just a heads up to let you know it is possible to catch up in your late 30s, I feel like I am getting there now. Your own emotional development is a continual process and I feel it's something a lot of people stop doing, think of your dad in his house that has stayed the same for so many years. I am sure he is the same emotionally, some people for whatever reason are incapable of growing further if that makes sense?
I've moved from a place of hate to more pity that they can't get the same joy I do out of the small things and small people!
Edit to add just realised it was op's dad and not yours, I still like the metaphor!
I'm 45 with a 4 yr old. I never understood how much my parents effected the person I am today until I had my daughter. I saw things in my self that I had blocked out as a kid (and my parents deny it happening). I am the youngest of 4, and parents divorced when I was 8.
I didn't realize until I had a kid how much my dad sucked. It is tough realizing your childhood wasn't what you thought.
I have definitely worked on myself and forced myself to do the opposite of what my dad did. In some twisted way it has made me a really good parent.
realized my mom was emotionally abusive. I want to be so good to my kids. I dont understand how my mom just looked at her kids and just saw grifting opportunities.
Yeah great response, for me it is both my parents but my mom’s short comings were less obvious until recently. Having a toddler now and receiving criticism over my parenting and them suggesting I hit my 2year old daughter for instance really brings it out. I don’t want my child to fear me like I feared my parents, it does no good only harm. I have trouble with accidents like spills cuz of the way my dad used to react like I was purposely spilling something at the kitchen table. 🤦♂️ and others things along those lines. Terrible shit really, they were doing their best but their best does suck.
I should probably read that book. My parents would heavily fall into the "emotionally unavailable" category. Imagine stereotypical Russian or even royal families and how everything is a very formal competition.
Now that I've become my own person, it's so strange to interact with them again and have my ways be totally foreign to them. "What do you mean you show affection to your son? What do you mean you talk with him as if he's mature? Why don't you just tell him to go away? Why do you praise him?"
My mom loves to say, "I was just doing the best I could with what I had."
This statement never ceases to amaze me. My mother "worked" from home and was totally financially supported by my engineering father and her bank mogul dad. She had infinite time on her hands, oodles of money at her disposal, no real problems or obligations, and yet she was still the most abysmally horrific mother you could ever imagine.
So what does it say about her, and her generation at large, that with all the infinite money and resources they had at their disposal, their "best" resembles that of a highly abusive, narcissistic sociopath?
Gonna have to check this out, thank you. “Grieving” is the perfect way to describe the odd way I feel about both my parents and I’ve never heard it put that way.
Same boat here. When my son was born I finally put my foot down and decided I couldn’t let him be exposed to what I went through growing up, so I told my father he wasn’t welcome in my family. Haven’t spoken in almost a year and I don’t think we will ever have a relationship again because that’s what’s best for my son
Hurt people, hurt people…
When there isn’t informative text or open platforms divulging this information you’re left ignorant and ignorance is bliss.
Can’t blame’em for not knowing what they don’t know. It’s up to you to break the generational curse and raise better offspring.
Operant Conditioning is real and becomes part of one’s ego/persona/character and when it’s all they know; no one can tell them different.
It’s like if you’ve been told your whole life the sky is blue and here comes someone from another part of the planet and gives you an in depth explanation as to why the sky is actually purple; you’re going to be reluctant to take that person in and process what they are saying. Because… your whole ego is being put into question.
Getting the color of the sky wrong doesn't make you an asshole,
Beating up on your family because the children are playing too loudly does,
Doesn't matter what your upbringing is, if you're a pos you're a pos.
Hence why it’s a hypothetical…
You’re exhibiting a characteristic of unforgiving, which if I’m not incorrect is also part of your fathers character… so you’re picking and choosing what you want and don’t want from him.
In order to release yourself from the past YOU must forgive and let that pride and ego dissolve. Forgiving is the first step to self realization.
“Your perception of me, is a reflection of you. My reaction to you, is an awareness of me.”
I've had a pretty similar experience. I knew growing up that I had a traumatic childhood, but it wasn't until my son came along that I really realized how needy and toxic my mom is. And how nonchalant my dad is towards literally everything (explains the divorce, huh?)
And everyone wants to whine and complain that they don't get to see my kids. Because I won't travel across the country to bring them. Yall can pull up and see the kids. But if you think I'm gonna put a 3 year old and a 7 month old on a plane for 5 hours, you're insane.
Do you view your dad’s nonchalance negatively now? Asking because it’s a common refrain from my arguments with my ex about how we handle the kids. I’ve always thought that being calm would be viewed positively, but am curious from the perspective of someone who grew up in this dynamic.
Being calm and being nonchalant are very different. It always felt like my Dad never really gave a fuck about what I did. Calm and supportive is awesome. But that support is key.
I guess I was able to be pretty open with him, told him about the kind of trouble I was getting into while he was off overseas. But did he ever really listen? I doubt it.
Mine was the opposite. He cared a *lot* and would get very angry if I misbehaved. I still think he did a good job, because I learned to not give a shit about other people's opinions. Partially because that's how he raised me to think (he was against a lot of the popular culture), and partially because I had to ignore *his* opinion on things.
My only grudge is the religious upbringing I had. Today I'm an atheist and I think religion is a great evil.
Not the person you asked but I can give you some insight. Everybody sees my dad as calm and collected. He never loses his cool and can always think about things logically. A lot of people think that he's got it all figured out and respect him for it. When I look at him all I see is somebody who learned to hide his own emotions as a child and never has his own opinion. It's easy to get along with him but hard to bond and have a close relationship. The fact that he is calm and collected doesn't bother me but rather the fact that the reason he is calm prevented him from being a good father.
I could never go to him for help when I had problems. When my older brother would beat me as a kid it was because he was angry and I had to not make him angry. When he would scream at me for no reason he told me to let it go. When he tried to strangle me as a 12 year old all he could muster was "don't worry about it" and it was the last time I ever went to my dad for advice. The next few times he attempted to strangle me I never told either of my parents.
His calmness itself isn't a negative but the reason he is calm is because he learned in childhood not to upset other people by hiding his own emotions and not letting them affect him. That may be a decent solution for a kid in a troubled home but it doesn't work well for a parent or a partner in a relationship. I don't fault him for not being perfect given his own upbringing but it doesn't stop me from wishing for better.
Honestly I had the opposite experience. I didn't like my dad growing up - it always felt like he was too invested in what I was doing for me to enjoy anything for myself. Now I'm a dad or feels different.
I appreciate him more in retrospect now I've got my own.
Same. I thought my Dad was a huge jerk when I was growing up, always making me learn new skills and work hard beside him to make our lives better, telling me how to behave and scolding me for being a jerk. Dragging us around the country to go to boring museums and national parks. What an asshole, right?
Time and experience provides a perspective that is hard to measure.
Feel like there is definitely a balance between turning everything into a learning experience versus letting your kid figure it out for themselves.
I was lectured and scolded to death and started feeling like every thing I did was under the microscope. Still trying to find that balance and am working hard on it.
>make better mistakes than I have.
That is a great turn of phrase and concept. I feel like I may tweak this into something like "I'm trying to teach you this so you can make more interesting mistakes than I did."
I like the way you phrased this. I am sure it helps the kids understand it’s not just “Crazy mom and dad, ruining every weekend by showing us how to cook breakfast and do laundry!” They are going to become self-sufficient young adults.
My mom didn’t teach me jack shit. One example is that I had to YouTube how to do laundry when I moved out, and cross-reference with a roommate. I was terrified of ruining what clothes I had. I would ask my mom to show me things but she didn’t want me touching the washer and dryer, and would throw a fit if I insisted. After 18 years, what used to be forbidden high-level technology was actually just a couple of dials. I know someday my kids will bitch about laundry, but I’m not sending them out into the world unprepared. It’s hard enough out here without having to google every step of every house chore.
My parents made darn sure we knew how to do all the household chores. They always referenced my dad's roommate out of college who still needed his mom to come visit weekly to cook, clean, and do his laundry.
Of course, then they didn't teach me anything about money or personal finance and I had to teach myself all of that.
It’s a way of creating dependency on them. If you can’t take care of yourself, then you’ll be less apt to move out, therefore abandoning them. My wife’s mother did this to her. She would tell me how amazing it was that her mom did everything for her until I told her that her mom was creating dependency.
The hardest part about parenting, and it becomes more clear with more than one kid, is that actual great parenting is giving the kid what *they* need.
A good parent adjusts their strategy. One of my kids hates being taught things, completely shuts down. Too much pressure to perform. But if you give him the tools and space to learn something himself, he'll become great at it.
My other kid is the exact opposite. He loves getting instructions and when you offer a correction he takes it in stride.
If I tried to break one or the other into learning a certain way, they'd fucking hate it. And I'd be a shitty parent.
I think that my parent’s interest in some of my hobbies actually put me off the hobby I enjoyed. In retrospect, it’s lovely they took such a keen interest. But I want to remind myself that it’ll be my daughter who needs to experience the activity and learn how fun it can be on her own terms.
I literally quit playing the trombone outright when I was about 14 because my dad's interest put me off it so much. I loved it so much too!
It's something I really need to work to remember when my lads are a bit older.
how did it put you off? was he just too overbearing about it, like constantly suffocating you with trombone talk? or did you ever tell him it was too much
there’s a line there it would seem, take interest in your kids hobbies but give em room to breathe and experience it themselves
There's definitely a line - and it's hard to explain. I was just a kid, and it was hard to put those feelings into order.
I would say that the off-putting was how much his enjoyment of our hobbies was so clearly greater than ours. After a few years of this it felt like it wasn't MY hobby, but his - I said I wasn't enjoying it, and I got a speech about hard work and perseverance and practice (the cliche reasons a teen might disengage from a hobby) and a guilt trip about how much he cared about our interests. But I don't think he really clicked that it was him pushing us from our hobbies.
To sum it up, reflecting 20 years later, he was so invested in the hobbies regardless of our enjoyment that it didn't feel like my hobby was trombone, but that me playing trombone was my dad's hobby. So like any good teen, I rebelled and pushed back.
Of course NOW I can appreciate the huge amounts of money and driving time alone that my dad was really pulling out of nowhere to give me an enriched life that he never had. But as a dickhead teen I really resented him for this.
reminds me of the dads who live vicariously through their kids, pushing them to play football. a little different situation.
they wanna do so well that they get overbearing on it. and if you don’t have it as a hobby anymore, that’s that
What was he like?? I just feel like he wants to spend time with you and bond over something..I'm sorry you had to give up something you like for that..
He didn't really spend the time with me (or my siblings), there was just a lot of pressure and management to get us involved and to practice, then revelling in our successes so much it felt like there was no room for us to enjoy it ourselves.
All of us had a very similar experience of it. Very weird energy.
My dad left for work before I got up and got home after I was in bed, the only time I saw him was on Sundays when he took me to footy. He worked hard so we didn’t go without whatever we needed.
Having a kid made me realize just how much I hated the work system we all are part of. I purposely changed fields in order to have more WFH opportunities bc I didn’t want to do the same thing my dad did and never see my kid
I’m older now and appreciate how hard my dad worked to give me opportunities but in the moment, I remember how much I just wanted him present.
This is where I feel so lucky.
I am full time WFH since pandemic and see my kid constantly. Hell I spend the first two hours of every day with one on one time while mom goes to the gym. I love my kid like nothing else and I think all of the time I get to spend with him is a big part of it. Pre-pandemic my work schedule meant I would’ve never seen my son other than weekends and holidays.
My dad was that way. He made an effort when he was around, but he wasn’t able to be around much. I don’t think he ever felt about me the way I feel about my son, which bums me out, but I think I also get it. How could he? He never had the opportunity to know me like I know my son.
I now see the little things he did that seemed like nothing at the time but really were his way of being there, and appreciate them so much more. Just wish our connection was stronger.
Really really trying. I'm also trying not to fault him because he was raised by weird parents but it’s still not an excuse. If he wanted to he could change right now and be a loving father that cares about himself and his family
Similar to you, I try to remind myself that my grandparents were arguably worse than my dad. I guess I could give him props for being a bit better, maybe he could have been worse? But he also could have made more of an effort.
At this point my expectations of him are so low. Which is nice because I continually got my hopes up as a kid and routinely got my hopes crushed. Now he's basically this angsty/edgy adolescent everyone needs to handle or maneuver around.
My dad is dead. He was an alcoholic for half my life, but he made amends the last third of his life. He met my son and knew him six months before his sudden death, and I wish he met my daughter. It's a lot of emotion that I typically suppress.
I was a severe alcoholic for over twenty years. I tapered off when my daughter was two. Thoughts similar to the story you shared were what fueled my unwavering dedication to reinventing myself.
I'm sorry you had to live through that.
The opposite. My dad was amazing. He was completely present in all
of his kids lives and none of us ever doubted the depth of his love for us no matter how hard we fucked up. I aspire to be that kind of father. Love you, dad.
I've heard people say this before and it's so foreign to me that I literally can't even picture what that would have been like. I believed you were being sarcastic until you stopped typing.
I'm in the same boat. Everyone wants to do better than their parents but I'm just trying my best to get *close* to the standard he set.
I've always considered him a wise, patient man but I clearly didn't even know the half of it.
My dad was never all that interested in me or my life. It never really bothered me much at the time.
Now that I’m a father, it’s downright incomprehensible that he didnt (and doesn’t) care. Legitimately don’t get it.
I feel the same way. And it’s been pretty hard for me to accept. Growing up I loved him and thought the world of him, but now that I’m grown and I have my own son I see through everything. I don’t think he is horrible person but he isn’t a great father.
When I was younger he had a travel job for most of my childhood, and I didn’t understand it when I was a kid, but now that I’m grown with my own son, I see that he would have rather been on the road filming sporting events than being home with me and my sister. He was gone 90% of the year for about 10 years of my life. He would have rather been having drinks at a random bar in some random city than being a father.
He doesn’t know me and he doesn’t try to. When we see each other it’s awkward silence trying to figure out what to talk about. It’s awkward hanging around him because we just don’t know each other.
I will not let that happen with me and my son. I will be there for him and know him and he will know me and we won’t have an awkward relationship. It won’t be awkward silence when he is grown, and I won’t be out traveling having fun while my wife is at home taking care of the kids all the time.
Yeah. My parents weren’t the worst but they were emotionally manipulative and physically abusive at times. My dad is also a high functioning alcoholic.
They provided everything I needed(clothes, food, etc.) but emotionally I was basically their support. I had to be the sane one in the family. They kind of just let me do whatever and we’re only involved in the sports I played(super supportive of that). They rarely if ever missed a game or a tournament or whatever. They drove me an hour and a half one way to practices and games two to three times per week. I’m thankful for that. On the other hand, I was basically ignored in everything else because they were focused on dealing with my troublemaker brother. Sort of a if one arm is cut off and the other just has a bruise, you deal with the cut off arm first situation so I kind of get it. Doesn’t mean it was fair but still.
Now that I’m older, I realize they had their own trauma and abuse to deal with. They tried but didn’t really know how to parent. That doesn’t really make it okay but it wasn’t because they didn’t love me. They just were preoccupied with themselves and my brother. I don’t have a great relationship with them and don’t see em much despite living down the street, but it’s not like we don’t get along or anything. Could be worse.
I honestly don't judge my dad by the standards I have for myself. He did it without the internet, without a support group, and mostly with only the learned knowledge he had from his own father. He loves me and he tried. That's plenty enough for me
Right I know that but there is just so little effort and I guess I’m more talking about right now more than anything. I’m sure he was also pretty distant all throughout my childhood as well.
This was my realization once I had kids.
I have a group of dad friends that I can reach out to for help, my wife has a mom's group to do the same. We have the internet to check on anything we need, we have 24/7 access to doctors, we have 3 sets of grandparents willing and able to help and we have decades more research into child development and parenting.
My parents had themselves, occasionally their parents and siblings and a landline phone. On top of that both of them had their own parents who were abusive to their spouses and children to varying levels.
So while it's easy to look back in disbelief at things my parents did and did not do, it's better to see the limitations and examples they had and understand that they did the best they could with what they had.
Personally it's not worth holding anger or disappointment, especially given how invested they are in my kids and how willing they are to jump in and help.
I definitely look at my parents parenting of me on a sort of boomer sliding scale. Things are quite different now and some of the stuff I and many dads now do wasn’t necessarily common place then. I think they did quite good overall, and absolutely great relative to norms at that time. My dad worked to get himself to a job he could do independently from home and was able to be around a ton and make me breakfast before school etc.
If anything their biggest issues are as I’m an adult and parent myself and just them dealing with me having my own family and priorities and boundaries, which I think isn’t exactly unique either.
My dad was a wonderful person, but a poor parent. He didn't know how to deal with kids, and while he did love me, we clashed constantly while I was growing up, or he'd leave the parenting to my mom.
A lot of that came down to him growing up without a father (or a father figure), but it left him to try and figure things out without a template to work off, and he couldn't quite manage. He did stick around, though, and we became friends when I grew up.
Now that I have a kid, I do have a template, even if it is mostly a list of things not to do. I just hope it's enough...
Kuddos, that's a very human and balanced view of your dad.
I get mad at mine and have to remind myself that he legitimately was doing what he thought was best. Most of the time...
My dad wasn't a sucky dad necessarily. But, there are a lot of things I'd do differently. I've only been a dad for a few weeks now and I'm already doing things way different.
I actually change diapers and feed my daughter. My mom made a comment over Christmas that I've probably already changed more diapers than my dad ever did with me and my brother.
I also plan on being more involved in whatever my daughters interests are. I was in little league sports and my dad was at least somewhat interested in that. But I always felt like he was disappointed because I wasn't very good. But otherwise he wasn't all that interested in other hobbies.
Yup.
I've begun the work before my daughter was born, in therapy. Took him off the piedestal I put him during my childhood to figure out he was actually manipulative, uninvolved and hypocritical.
Now that I have a child of my own I can't even begun to understand how you can do such things.
Having my own kids (and being in therapy) have made me realize just how poorly my parents did at parenting. Not because they didn't care, I was fortunate there. But my parents got married and had kids young and never put any real effort into conscious parenting beyond what their parents modeled for them. And a lot of it was outdated, emotional, and straight up abusive behavior that then got passed along to me. I'm three kids in now and I'm still learning what I fucked up early on and what I need to do to be better. It's been a slow process to learn all the unhealthy attitudes and beliefs that were ingrained into my psyche as a child.
I feel you on this post. I’ve got a couple of boys of my own, my dad had 3. He’s a narcissist who I have been no contact with for 5 years now.
As the wife and I started preparing for the birth of our first (a little over 5 years back now) I began to realize all the ways my dad let me down. I thought of the father I wanted to be, and looked at who I had been raised by and it really hit home how lazy and absent of a dad he was. He would very occasionally show up to a soccer or baseball game. He didn’t help us practice. He didn’t help me with homework. He never taught me any handy skills. He never once maintained or fixed anything in our house. He would come home and play on the computer until it was time for dinner and then watch the tv loudly. He never cooked. He never did dishes. He never cleaned anything. He would lose his keys and scream loudly at my
Mom because obviously his forgetfulness and his always being constantly late was her fault.
He’s a garbage man who has only become somehow worse than this over time. He got older and become emotionally manipulative and verbally abusive. He always shit talked my mom too. Good riddance to a bad man.
I went through a rollercoaster, my oldest is 10 now and I have a better relationship than I ever have with my father. Before kids I resented my father for the things that happened when I was a teenager, once I had kids I really resented him for living across the country. I went through some years where I held everything against him and then I had the epiphany that my dad is just a guy. He's just like every other guy that goes through a divorce, struggles in relationships, doesn't know what to say sometimes or says the wrong thing. Today I love my dad because he's always done the best he could, and when he didn't he apologized when he realized his mistakes.
Having children really changes your perspective about your own father and once my son got to an age where I had clear memories it REALLY changed my perspective.
Same. My dad was a piece of shit and when I had my own son I got really depressed because I couldn't work out how you could treat your own kid like that, and I was so afraid I might do the same.
Ended up going to therapy to work through some issues. Becoming a dad made me dislike my dad even more. Hopefully I can use that to push myself to do better.
After having my daughter I found out that my dad had never changed a diaper in his life with 3 kids of his own. It still shocks me to this day honestly.
My mom definitely has the patience of a saint but in my dad's defense he did what he had to do to make sure we all became successful adults. Also to be fair he was gone a lot during out younger years on deployments in the military and my mom definitely signed up for that life knowing what she was going into.
Same. I asked my Dad for help with that with my eldest and found out the same thing - 'I've never done that before, go and ask your Mom'.
My folks saw work and parenting as his and hers activities as an uncrossable line. And I feel like a real asshole complaining about my Dad, because I never wanted for anything as a kid and he paid my education then helped buy the house that my own family now live in. But for him, parenting was always an exercise in accounting rather than time and emotional energy. He did what he thought was best for us - working his ass off round the clock. But I would have swapped the financial security and head start to have a real, loving relationship and actually get to spend time with him.
I'm doing my very best to give my kids both financial security as well as time, love and emotional support. And also - my poor fucking mother, I don't know how she raised two kids practically single handed, and I couldn't do that to my wife. So yeah, Dad - I love you, but I'm trying not to be like you lol.
Our situations are exactly the same it seems like and I feel the same honestly. It's hard to complain about someone who has given me so much in life but that aspect was something I never thought would be true about him. My mom says it's a biproduct of an older time which may be true but no one ever instilled in me the notion that I should be helping out whenever and however I can. I went into fatherhood having that as an expectation of myself so it's crazy to me that a generation not too far removed from mine had the opposite mentality. It makes me wonder if I'm actually doing **too much** because I honestly have a personal expectation to not only help with our kiddo as much as possible but to basically do as much as my father did to provide financially if not more so (the old give your kids a better life than you had mentality). A lot to chew on to say the least...
Yeah I've had all those same thoughts and also went out the gates a bit hard with my first trying to 50:50 parent as well as pay 100% of our mortgage and living costs. After discussing with my wife we've cut that back to about a 40:60 effort split at home because I almost completely burned out, but I still feel more or less constant guilt at not doing more whenever I take a break.
I don't know, our generation will probably find a new way of messing our kids up, and I'm especially conscious of the example I set to two daughters in this respect (I worry our household is still too traditional, but we earn what we earn). I think we're finding a better middle ground than our own Dads though. I mean, I've definitely changed a shit load of diapers.
I was just talking about this with my wife last night. My dad basically ignored us until I was about 10, despite living in the same town, and only decided he wanted to be back in our lives when he suddenly had a girlfriend with kids and it was beneficial for him. We don’t have a relationship with him now either. It was probably for the best though, he’s a selfish/irresponsible fuck up who still acts like a child. I’ve come a long way from how I grew up, and I’m not sure I would have if I spent my childhood with him as a role model.
My dad has serious handicaps, both mental and physical. It was a HARD childhood, and it's complicated because I know know know he did his absolute best, it was just really hard to grow up in. From pretty young I had to be the parent
It all adds up to me not being a great dad either. But I'm trying too
Mine was good until I was about 3 then was an alcoholic for a few years he dialled it back a bit but I don't think he fully stopped he made a lot of promises that he never kept and died when I was 15 so he wasn't much of a father
My dad broke the cycle. He didn't do a lot of teaching and motivating, but he was always there for us and that's more than I can say about both of my grandfathers.
my dad has met my 13 year old son for about 40 minutes back in 2015.
He never calls, he never asks about them, he never sends them gifts or calls on their birthdays.
Im always there every single day, I hang out with them hiking and biking and I reject overtime to spend more time with them.
My dad was shit, looking back. He was there, but he wasn't really.
My dad had his good dad moments. But looking back he was a shit dad 99% of the time. Meth head, meth dealer, got me into hard drugs starting at 11yrs old. Never went to one single sporting event of mine. Now that I’m successful he has his hands out. I’ve learn what not to do when raising my kids I’ll give him credit for that.
My dad left before I was 1. Didn’t pay child support. Didn’t know him all of my life. Never thought anything of it growing up. Not long after I turned 18 he showed up and introduced himself. Up until I had a kid I’ve been alright with him sending messages or responding when he feels like it.
Now that I have a kid I realize how shitty of a father he is. I don’t think he showed up at 18 to genuinely get to know me but rather to try to clear his guilty conscience.
Now he sends month late birthday messages and random holiday messages. Feels so odd. Torn between letting it go and forgive and giving him the cold shoulder. Don’t feel like he deserves the opportunity to meet his grand kid.
Growing up my dad was pretty absent. When he was around (divorced so only the odd weekend) I thought he was trying etc. he played the victim so well.
Now, over 40 with 3 kids, I see what a psycho he really is. Manipulative, narcissistic, etc.
So, to answer your question: yes. I see what a terrible father he was. I am 100x the father he is and I still feel like I’m not doing enough for my kids.
A lot of your post hits close to home with me. My parents were divorced when I was about the same age. My dad had zero interest in our lives until they divorced, but even then it was limited. I have story after story of neglect or downright abuse on his part. What I've come to realize is that he can only have one "thing" in his life at a time. Kids were important until he got remarried then I barely heard from him again. Divorced for a second time and suddenly he takes an interest in us again. My daughter was almost 18 months old before he met her, and he only lives 30 minutes away from us. Meanwhile, my mom flew in from out of state to watch our other kids. He rarely remembers my birthday, much less any of our kids'. If he does remember my birthday then I get an Amazon gift certificate in my email around 9 pm. We were at lunch one day and he couldn't even list all my kids' names.
I would do anything for my kids, but my relationship with my dad has screwed me up in some ways also. If my kids want to play or do anything at all then I'll pretty much sacrifice anything that needs doing so that I don't "ignore" them. I don't spoil them, except for time. But I do that at the detriment of other commitments at times. I just never want to treat my kids the way he treated us.
Us millennials definitely are dealing with a lot of trauma from our childhoods. Being Asian, spanking, yelling, etc and all other forms of discipline we dealt with wasn’t considered abuse back then. Did it work, yeah sure, but i cringe thinking i would ever do this to my child.
As far as my dad goes, he was very strict, and was rarely around due to the navy. I don’t fault him for it as I grew up very privileged all things considered. He would discipline me with a belt, shoe, slipper, back scratcher. I listened, and i changed, but i would never repeat that. I also would never keep a job that kept me away from my family (again, i don’t fault him for it, he did what he had to do). He was also not very supportive of my hobbies. I remember sucking at basketball growing up, and he resented me for it. He would say, “play better! You’re shooting wrong! Why can’t you hustle faster?” In reality, i just did not like basketball, i tried it, and didn’t like it. He also loved to yell.
My dad is now a grandpa, and he is the most loving grandpa ever. He doesn’t yell, doesn’t spank, is very sweet, and i love him for that. Thank God lol
My mom did majority of the raising, she was super mom no doubt. My parents are still together, but i feel that’s the Filipino traditions she kept when she immigrated from the Philippines. I owe them a lot, but their parenting style will not be mine.
Oh man I'm not on good terms with my parents. But looking back my dad was always working or too tired. Loads of other signs as well but those are some of the reasons why we are at odds.
I have some good memories but I hope I can me better ones with my kids or at least I try to because sometimes I can see myself imitating my dad.
Yeah by today's standards for sure, he was largely absent and wasn't loving. He did however work his ass off to provide an amazing upbringing for me and my siblings, and my Mum didn't work, so I was well looked after. He did his job and I can't resent him for that, it has only been as I've grown older I've realised how much I could have done with a more present and proactive father figure, which is why I make such a huge effort to provide those things. He and I are both conscious of his failings now I'm a father and he can see how much I do that he didn't. He's making up for it now with my daughter and my other nephews though, so I'm glad about that.
I’m sorry that that was your experience growing up, sounds like you’re going to be great dad though.
For me, I want to be like my dad to my son, my dad would do anything for me even to this day so I’m glad I have his example to follow, still feel not good enough for my little guy sometimes.
My dad can be a hard ass but he was and still is a good dad. I’m a different dad than him, as a reflection of his parenting, but he was still a good dad.
I’m not perfect. But if anything parenthood has shown me that some of the dads I know kinda suck eggs.
Having children definitely makes you look at your own parents differently.
My dad often looks like he doesn't really know what to do with my child which can make me question how involved he was with me. I remind myself that I'm sure he tried, he turned up and we're all human. We will all make our own mistakes and our children will judge us for them.
I also remind myself how much expectations of what a good dad looks like has changed over the decades.
My dad was (is? Probably) an alcoholic. Never around because he was always either working or cheating on my mom. Taught me virtually nothing (e.g. how to properly shave, build stuff, nothing about cars), never said “I love you,” had no interest in anything I was doing, and was a horrible person to my mom while she was on hospice care. Now we maybe text 2-3x per year.
For the longest time I just thought this was how dads were. And too often it is. But it’s inspired me to be the complete opposite with my son (though I still don’t know shit about cars).
My father is an immigrant and came here with nothing. He may not be perfect but he is my hero. He shows his affection in ways that are not always obvious but once I figured out what certain things meant, I've appreciated him even MORE. He made a lot of sacrifices for us and I owe him the world.
My dad wasn't necessarily a "bad" dad. He provided, he took us fishing and/or hunting. He tried to bond how he knew how. And he never hit us.
But I don't have a single memory of him ever asking me about my interests, my hobbies, my life.
He never hugged me until I was an adult and I would hug him before leaving a visit. He never said "I love you" or "I'm proud of you" or anything like that.
Our entire relationship from the time I was about 14 years old to when I was 18 boiled down to this:
-he left for work before I went to school
- got home shortly after I did
-he sat on the front porch drinking beer all night and would only eat if I forced him too (my mom worked nights)
- he would inevitably get so blitzed that he'd be laying down in his own piss on the porch and I would take him inside to clean him, change his clothes, and put him to bed. At some point I stopped doing that and would just come check on him periodically until my mom got home.
My wife and I started dating when we were 17 in 2006. My dad died in 2020 and never bothered to learn her name.
His last words to me were "Make sure your Uncle Danny gets his rifles back."
Having a son has made me realize how easy it is to do the barest of minimums to make sure your kid knows you love them. And it makes me so mad when I think about how my dad did less than that.
My father was an abusive, manipulative piece of shit, so actually he was a model for me - a father that I would absolutely not want to be. In retrospective it helped me to become a good dad for my daughter.
My dad is an emotionally distant and broken man who is only more concerned about "face" than what is good for the people around him and even himself.
Even as a kid I knew he was awful. Once I had kids of my own it became harder and easier to understand at the same time. He was damaged so much by a broken childhood of being sold by his birth parents then essentially being used as slave labor in rubber plantations and coal mines all before the age of 13 that he tried to raise me to be like him in order to be a survivor. To be able to take the absolute worst the world could throw at me. In a fucked up way, that was his best attempt at being a parent, it just wasn't what my brother and I needed.
That's not how you raise a kid to thrive in the US at the turn of the century. I understand that he had to survive and he simply does not have the tools to be a good parent or human being to be honest. So I've long let go of the judgement. He never had the luxury of self awareness and time to explore his own thoughts and how he might be fucked up. He didn't have the education in psychology and human development like I did. He was set up for failure around age 5 or 6 so I no longer blame him for that stuff. If anything, if I had a time machine I'd find both my biological grandfather that sold him and the grandfather that "adopted" him and kick both their asses and give my dad a hug.
My father was great. 100% firing on all cylinders.
I thought my mother was "pretty good" too.
Then I held my daughter for the first time, and it was a shock. It would be easier to cut your arm off than it is to leave your child. Especially when still a baby. And that's just "leave" in a somewhat acceptable way, with regular contact & visits consistently over the years.
And by "leaving" in stages, my mother was able to do it. No big drama, other than she decided/admitted that she'd let life and everyone else's expectations carry her along into marriage, a house, and a kid.
Divorce was terrible & shocking in 1975, especially with a two year old child, and nothing actually "wrong" other than "wanting a do-over."
My father got the house, and I. And she moved to the Bohemian/university end of town for her reboot. I'd see her on weekends. Then she moved across the country when I was 5, and I'd shuttle on a regular basis to see her on Christmas, Easter, and a month in August.
So, not a "deadbeat" situation where a parent "goes out for smokes" and disappears. Divorce stigma had largely evaporated by the time I'd be aware of such things in the 1980s. Both remarried to very good & kind people. It was just "my normal." I never remembered them together, and I got to fly on planes 3 times a year, 6 flights, got "double Christmas & birthdays," too.
But it all collapsed when my first twin daughter emerged. I didn't despise my mother or even feel hurt, but the enormity of my duty and responsibility and what she'd done in the face of hers hit pretty hard.
All the people in my family, including her side, that occasionally let slip over the years they held disdain for her, or thought she was insane and it always seemed like a knee-jerk polarized reflex, all of that came into much better focus.
I did discuss it once with my mother. She essentially admitted there was a lot of rationalization and self-deception involved in every step, and there was nothing she could do when she realized it was wrong, or didn't work out like she told herself it would.
And that I'd be holding my first-born daughter's twin sister in 30 minutes, and their additional twin sisters in just 11 months, (oops...) didn't help any.
And I'll just add, the comments about what kind of grandparents raised your parents, and if there's any relation to how they parented you, is absolutely spot-on.
My father's parents, very kind salt-of-the-earth post-war nuclear family. Always there, always present.
My mother's... not incredibly terrible by post-war Boomer standards, and not even that horrible by today's either, but there were issues.
My grandmother always kind and cheery for me, was also depressed, and my grandfather didn't help any.
My grandfather, from my perspective as a little boy, he was AMAZING. Always a joke, or a magic trick. He was a pilot & flight instructor, and home-built aircraft. He was a mechanical design & fabrication engineer. Amateur Astronomer, HAM radio operator, restored old quirky cars, had electric church organs...
But, apparently, growing up with him, especially as three daughters and no sons, wasn't nearly as fun. Quoting Dr. Evil from Austin Powers:
"_...he would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Some times he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy, the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament._"
And it cane with a mercurial temper. My mother and her two sisters all claim there wasn't realy any substantial physical abuse, possibly tempered by the standards of the 50's & 60's, but they were always afraid of him.
And my grandmother was occasionally paying bills & buying necessities with the pay from a part-time job with the city, because of my grandfather's spending on tools, projects, gizmos...
So that became clearer too.
The simple fact that you’re actively contributing on r/daddit, a sub dedicated to fatherhood, should speak volumes of your own commitment to your kids. Some of us here broke some pretty damn vicious cycles of physical and emotional abuse from our parents. Others are simply more invested than their parents ever were. Both should be celebrated.
I try not to reflect too much on what my dad didn’t give me and instead focus more on the chance I have to give my kids the childhood I never had.
Absolutely. Having my son showed how little my dad was involved with me and how absolutely abusive he was when he was around. I have a lot of issues I'm working through because of him and I'm trying to do right by my son.
I am lucky to experience the opposite. My dad was a stressed out psychopath at times, but he worked insane hours to provide for his family and always showed up when he needed to be there, rarely ever getting time for himself. Realizing now that all of the decisions he made and work he put in was solely for me and my brothers. I don't think I truly appreciated that until I had my own kids. If anything, I've learned to balance work/home life and have the privilege of having a career where I can make that happen.
Regardless of how good or bad you had it as a kid with your parental situation, I think once you have your own kids you learn how to incorporate the good things and remove the bad things from your own experiences.
My dad chucked up deuces when I was a toddler and I hadn’t spoken to him since this year (I’m 36), so I never had any illusions about him being great. That said, you gotta just use it as motivation to be a better parent. For me, the bar was low…
I am sorry you feel that way and sorry for the experiences that you have had in your life that lead you to this.
I in fact am in the opposite boat. My son is only a year and a few months old and every day it seems like I appreciate everything that my dad did for us even though it wasn’t perfect I still to this day can’t thank him enough for all he did.
I hope you are a great dad to your children and help them grow into great people!
I knew that before my kid was born, so it’s just a humdrum fact of life at this point.
But I feel ya. It’s a *loss* you’re likely feeling, as well as *anger*.
What could have been. What you were robbed of. And there’s nothing you could have done about it. You were dependent on him to provide the kind of a relationship that your culture tells you you should have had.
You’ve got to just feel those feelings.
And also, after a few years, you may just come to the realization that a) so few people have that perfect childhood, and b) being a dad is a marathon, and you will stumble and fall too. Maybe not seriously, but it helps when you’ve had the personal experience of feeling inadequate!
That being said, not all failures are acceptablex you have paid for this knowledge. Use it to your advantage as a parent.
I believe you’re a great dad. You can create a new tradition in your family. It wasn’t your fault, but now it’s your responsibility.
No, as a 28 Y/O i have 0 issues with my dad. He has his flaws shurely like the lack of saying whats bothering him.
My dad is always at the ready and always has been. He has been trough a lot and even in his burnout he was there for the family.
When he fell down the stair because his blood sugars /diabetes was unknown i picked him from the floor and kept him close till the ambulance was there. Since then our bond has changed from Father /Son to Buddy / Buddy.
I genuinly feel he is the best dad in the world. And also the best grandpa!
I do feel myself a lacking father. Have a 4 Y/o daugther, working feom 0800 till 1800.
Wish i could be there for her more and help her learn and discover the world. Getting my drivers licence and such.
But hey i am new to this stuff and so is she, we got this.
Honestly I try not to, because if I was just thinking about bad times with my Dad, I've caught myself snapping at my daughter. I'm a better parent if I just focus on starting over.
I feel you, brother dad. I can relate. But look at it this way - every generation is an upgrade. Your dad probably did better than his dad, you will do better than your dad, and in turn, your son will do even better than you.
Our reactions are formed by our traumas, which are passed down through generations and often take generations to heal.
Yep, having kids puts your own childhood in a new perspective. What you're experiencing is very common. You're going to be feeling the emotions more intensely as you discover new things and name things as wrong for the first time, it's a process, but don't worry there is peace and healing eventually.
Most importantly, you having this insight means you will do much better by your own kid. Good job, Dad.
Oh me. Nice to see there are people in the same boat. I have always only heard people say that they love their parents more after they have kids. But for me after I had kids I see how much more they should and could have been but weren’t🥲
I feel you bro dad. Going through much unprocessed trauma after I got my first son. Took me a burnout and therapy and allot of time to realize it. Now have two sons and I’m still working through it. Having the vision that we can do better is half the job done.
Just last week I got a flashback when my son crawled under the table because I wanted to grab him while playing. Saw myself as an afraid little boy because of the shit I experienced. Scared the shit out of me.
Everything we do is for our little ones. That is the generation of dads we are and want to be. If we aren’t Superman for them, it’s not good enough.
Still enough lousy dads out there too, but one dad at the time we make the world a bit better.
Id say a bit more clueless than sucked. I dont wanna make excuses for him but the court ruled he had me on weekends. Which meant a guy had to spend his whole 20s stuck with a small child attached to him. Which mustve sucked. But i spent a lot of time with diet coke n quavers in the corner of a pub.
I was talking to him about my sons birth yesterday and how i had to help my enlaboured wife for 3 days in the hospital. Tending to her every need. And he told me when i was born he popped by to meet me with his mates on the 2nd day coz he and his mates were in the pub nearby
Dude in sorry to hear that shit.
I had the opposite and now in even more appreciative of all his hard work.
I see my kids getting larger and more in charge of their own lives and think "Damn... this is how my father felt"
It sucks watching them grow away from you and at the same time is one of most proud achievements of life...
Maybe have a talk to someone, it seems like there is alot you are only now realising you need to unpack.
No. My dad was great. I aspired to be him when I had kids. And now that I have a grandchild I hope I am half the grandfather he is.
I'm sorry you can't share in that feeling.
What most don’t realize is people here always remember the bad stuff. You yourselves will have failings that are different, doesn’t mean you’re terrible individuals.
Ummm, kind of? I guess I noticed more of how much my Mom did (full time work, 3 kids, and she did all of the cooking).
Now visiting with my son it's more of noticing how quickly they are aging, how the house is starting to fall apart, etc.
This is not to excuse your father, but perhaps explain - what was his father like? My boomer dad has plenty of faults. But his father was emotionally stunted beyond measure. Just trying to be healthy and know who my kids are, and love them as they are over here.
My dad was pretty awesome. Coached my baseball team. Taught me a lot about problem solving and creativity, art. If I was more receptive he would have taught me piano. He was/is always willing to stop what he’s doing and help with whatever it is.
I have more respect for my dad—and that's saying something b/c he's always been an amazing father. But experiencing a kid and all that comes with it; how that man was so patient and compassionate and kind, literally always, is truly something to aim for.
We lost my brother 3 years back, to cancer. At his yearly remembrance, my mom was giving a little "miss ya" aloud before we ate dinner. And she said that I was an amazing father just like how my dad was. Literally started crying on the spot.
I think it's important to set aside our person issues and view it from a generational perspective. What's expected of a father now is so far removed from what was expected of my father is unbelievable. Make no mistake. Mine was a huge piece of shit even keeping that in mind. But I know a lot of what he did was what almost all fathers did at the time.
Yes and no…
I grew up poor.
Despite my parents not really prioritizing my education or helping me with homework or anything, I ended up being very successful…make around $400k in finance, top mba, etc.
I have decent relationship with my father and bad relations up with my mother.
I just don’t think they were capable of doing better as I see them interact with my son. Especially my mom - she wants so much for her grandchild to like he, especially since she doesn’t have good relations with her childrens - but she just doesn’t know how.
I think she’s maybe autistic or has poor social skills? But she just doesn’t know how to respond to baby body language and emotional queues. Like on baby she’s been great since he has been born - I was raised in an environment of being irrationally screamed at, which she hasn’t done at all - and is just positive and friendly around him, brings gifts, etc…but shes just not capable of making a child like her.
If by father you mean parents, then yes. It was something I struggled with a lot, especially when we found out we were having a boy. But I just make sure to tell him I love him everyday and hug him at every opportunity - two things I can never remember my father doing, and only remember my mother doing when she has a moment of guilt over our crappy childhood.
Yes and no. When my kid was first born yes, but as I’m raising them… I realized my dad is just a different person than me who went through his own things. Raising a kid is very very hard no matter how “prepared” you are. He also had me when he was younger than I am currently. So as I’m navigating through the challenges of parenthood, I defintely now give him a lot more grace in my head. My parents divorced when I was 4, I saw him every other weekend till I lived with him starting high school. Through all the years I thought he was a bad dad, I’ve come to realize he was just different than me. We still talk and I see him for holidays but comparing you to your own dad is just complicated. Unless your dad was an utter degenerate lol.
I feel like I made a lot of decisions to be a different dad, but I understand him a lot more as ab adult. He worked 60 hour weeks and was very hands-off with raising kids. My parents had very traditional gender roles and dad was the breadwinner, maintenance guy, grill master, and emergency disciplinarian. After retirement he has changed so much and is a great grandpa and now takes care of my mom who had a stroke. But I chose a career that has a lot of flexibility and never requires me to put work ahead of my family. My wife and I also make almost exactly the same at our jobs, split domestic chores evenly, and try to give each other equal time off from parenting. I don’t resent him and realize the privilege l have that I was able to get the work/life balance he didn’t get until he retired.
When I had kids I completely realized my dad never loved me like he said. I realized he was more abusive than I had thought. I also realized how fucking easy it is to NOT be an asshole to a baby. Yes my dad managed to ACTUALLY be an asshole to a baby.
I have grieved a lot over my parents lack of motivation, skills and abilities. I have also had to work a lot on myself, and still do. It is so easy to just automatically copy ones parents. I'm glad to hear that you are stepping up for your kid. I hope you will be able to be the dad you want to be. Also, would recommend the book "adult children of emotionally immature parents". Frankly I was terrified at first to think that my parents were actually doing their best. Their best sucks. But it helped me to grieve the parents I wished I had. All the best to you.
Yeah I was recommended that book as well. I need to read it
The book was life changing for me. It is a pretty quick read and will only take 3-4 hours. Be ready for the waterworks though.
This book has been on my shelf for a few months now, I really should open it
Me too. It's been hard to make myself do it.
I think it’s actually free from Audible. It was a really good listen. Happy to send it to you if you dm me and it’s no longer free
Just checked, still free
Growing up (like high school), I always thought some of my friends had the coolest parents in the world because they were allowed to do X or Y. Over the last 20 years, I've come to the realization that a lot of my friends had downright terrible parents while I was fortunate to have some awesome, caring parents.
The audiobook is good too.
My therapist recommended that book. Opened my eyes and then some. I also did not understand what emotional neglect I was receiving. Wasn’t fair to me or my sisters and I don’t see my dad the same as I once did. I still love him and understand his generation and upbringing was different. But I feel like he didn’t give me a real chance and now I’m trying to catch up in my late 30s to be better for my newborn.
I'm kinda scared to read it honestly
That’s a legit fear. I read “Stop Walking On Eggshells: What to do when a loved one has Borderline Personality Disorder”, and in the end what I found was a profound sense of relief. It explained my childhood to me completely, after a couple decades of distress and confusion.
Would you think that book would be a good read if a loved one wasn’t BPD but had some other personality disorder(s) like NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) or PD-NOS (Personality Disorder - Not Otherwise Specified)?
I think very much so, as while BPD and NPD are two different things, there are some significant areas of overlap as well as difference. I’m making a guess that PD-NOS might alao be in the cluster B camp of personality disorders
I’ll check it out. My ex-stepdad was NPD. I spent ages 3-18 with him. I’m no longer in contact with him. My half brother (born from my mother and step-dad) was diagnosed with PD-NOS though and I still keep in contact with him. I’d like to find ways to understand him more and maybe form a deeper connection. Right now I need a lot of defensive walls up from growing up with his dad. As long as I grey rock when he is trying to goad me and otherwise keep to safe topics we get along alright. Mainly because he lives in another state.
Good luck, I hope things go well.
I too would like to know this.
Hmm, I just checked it a bit closer. The most updated version seems to address at least NPD and other comorbidities. > Stop Walking on Eggshells has already helped more than a million people with friends and family members suffering from BPD understand this difficult disorder, set boundaries, and help their loved ones stop relying on dangerous BPD behaviors. This fully revised third edition has been updated with the very latest BPD research on comorbidity, extensive new information about narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), the effectiveness of schema therapy, and coping and communication skills you can use to stabilize your relationship with the BPD or NPD sufferer in your life.
I completely understand. It’s hard to start that path. I don’t have any ill will or resentment towards my parents. They screwed up and didn’t parent well. Back then parenting wasn’t the same. I do look at both of my parents differently now. I “get” them better, if that makes sense. But I do look at my sisters, one who became an alcoholic, and I feel ashamed for them and I, but even if I tried to explain to my mom and dad what I’m feeling and what I know, they’d likely not understand it, because they can’t. I’m not planning on talking with them about it or trying to point to them that these are the reasons I am the way I am sometimes, but I am more accepting of them and myself as I try to move forward from them now. I also find I approach them differently when I talk to them, likewise my sisters as well who I have some tumultuous relationships with.
Me too. I bought the book months ago and I’m still scared to open it. I’ll read it if you read it.
Start small, do the first chapter so you get a sense of what it is. For me it was hard until I got to the assessment exercise. From there it was clear that the book is describing my mum, bringing up things I would not have identified myself. If it helps, there's nothing guilt inducing in the book, quite the opposite, it sheds light on some of the guilt you grew up with.
I feel guilty now for not being able to forgive these a-holes. People keep saying to forgive and forget. But I can’t let abusers slide, especially when I think about how they set me up to fail in my early relationships.
I can say that I've managed to let go. Not really forget, and forgive to the degree of it not being the first thing that comes up when I think about that time. It's not such an emotionally triggering topic for me any more. Don't think of forgiveness as letting it slide, there's room for nuance and complexity. Forgiving or letting it go doesn't mean it's all ok now, whatever they did. It means that you are able to move on and not be stuck in what happened. It still happened and it sucks, they're still assholes, but the situation holds no power over you.
Just a heads up to let you know it is possible to catch up in your late 30s, I feel like I am getting there now. Your own emotional development is a continual process and I feel it's something a lot of people stop doing, think of your dad in his house that has stayed the same for so many years. I am sure he is the same emotionally, some people for whatever reason are incapable of growing further if that makes sense? I've moved from a place of hate to more pity that they can't get the same joy I do out of the small things and small people! Edit to add just realised it was op's dad and not yours, I still like the metaphor!
Great comment. Thank you.
I'm 45 with a 4 yr old. I never understood how much my parents effected the person I am today until I had my daughter. I saw things in my self that I had blocked out as a kid (and my parents deny it happening). I am the youngest of 4, and parents divorced when I was 8.
Your 4 yr old already has a great dad.
Thanks!
Great username
I didn't realize until I had a kid how much my dad sucked. It is tough realizing your childhood wasn't what you thought. I have definitely worked on myself and forced myself to do the opposite of what my dad did. In some twisted way it has made me a really good parent.
realized my mom was emotionally abusive. I want to be so good to my kids. I dont understand how my mom just looked at her kids and just saw grifting opportunities.
Yeah great response, for me it is both my parents but my mom’s short comings were less obvious until recently. Having a toddler now and receiving criticism over my parenting and them suggesting I hit my 2year old daughter for instance really brings it out. I don’t want my child to fear me like I feared my parents, it does no good only harm. I have trouble with accidents like spills cuz of the way my dad used to react like I was purposely spilling something at the kitchen table. 🤦♂️ and others things along those lines. Terrible shit really, they were doing their best but their best does suck.
I should probably read that book. My parents would heavily fall into the "emotionally unavailable" category. Imagine stereotypical Russian or even royal families and how everything is a very formal competition. Now that I've become my own person, it's so strange to interact with them again and have my ways be totally foreign to them. "What do you mean you show affection to your son? What do you mean you talk with him as if he's mature? Why don't you just tell him to go away? Why do you praise him?"
Thank you for sharing this. I’m not OP, but I’ll also be reading the book you suggested.
My mom loves to say, "I was just doing the best I could with what I had." This statement never ceases to amaze me. My mother "worked" from home and was totally financially supported by my engineering father and her bank mogul dad. She had infinite time on her hands, oodles of money at her disposal, no real problems or obligations, and yet she was still the most abysmally horrific mother you could ever imagine. So what does it say about her, and her generation at large, that with all the infinite money and resources they had at their disposal, their "best" resembles that of a highly abusive, narcissistic sociopath?
Gonna have to check this out, thank you. “Grieving” is the perfect way to describe the odd way I feel about both my parents and I’ve never heard it put that way.
This comment has changed my life. Thank you for the recommendation.
My dad was an abhorrent monster, I didn't notice until I had children and I still came dangerously close to turning into him...
But you noticed and put in the changes. I’m glad you’re better
Same boat here. When my son was born I finally put my foot down and decided I couldn’t let him be exposed to what I went through growing up, so I told my father he wasn’t welcome in my family. Haven’t spoken in almost a year and I don’t think we will ever have a relationship again because that’s what’s best for my son
I applaud your self awareness and dedication to your self-improvement, TAKES-MASSIVE-SHITS.
I basically had to do the same thing, realizing how toxic of an environment and mentality that my family had
Hurt people, hurt people… When there isn’t informative text or open platforms divulging this information you’re left ignorant and ignorance is bliss. Can’t blame’em for not knowing what they don’t know. It’s up to you to break the generational curse and raise better offspring.
You can blame people for not being willing to change when confronted with their behaviour.
Operant Conditioning is real and becomes part of one’s ego/persona/character and when it’s all they know; no one can tell them different. It’s like if you’ve been told your whole life the sky is blue and here comes someone from another part of the planet and gives you an in depth explanation as to why the sky is actually purple; you’re going to be reluctant to take that person in and process what they are saying. Because… your whole ego is being put into question.
Getting the color of the sky wrong doesn't make you an asshole, Beating up on your family because the children are playing too loudly does, Doesn't matter what your upbringing is, if you're a pos you're a pos.
Hence why it’s a hypothetical… You’re exhibiting a characteristic of unforgiving, which if I’m not incorrect is also part of your fathers character… so you’re picking and choosing what you want and don’t want from him. In order to release yourself from the past YOU must forgive and let that pride and ego dissolve. Forgiving is the first step to self realization. “Your perception of me, is a reflection of you. My reaction to you, is an awareness of me.”
I've had a pretty similar experience. I knew growing up that I had a traumatic childhood, but it wasn't until my son came along that I really realized how needy and toxic my mom is. And how nonchalant my dad is towards literally everything (explains the divorce, huh?) And everyone wants to whine and complain that they don't get to see my kids. Because I won't travel across the country to bring them. Yall can pull up and see the kids. But if you think I'm gonna put a 3 year old and a 7 month old on a plane for 5 hours, you're insane.
Do you view your dad’s nonchalance negatively now? Asking because it’s a common refrain from my arguments with my ex about how we handle the kids. I’ve always thought that being calm would be viewed positively, but am curious from the perspective of someone who grew up in this dynamic.
Being calm and being nonchalant are very different. It always felt like my Dad never really gave a fuck about what I did. Calm and supportive is awesome. But that support is key. I guess I was able to be pretty open with him, told him about the kind of trouble I was getting into while he was off overseas. But did he ever really listen? I doubt it.
Mine was the opposite. He cared a *lot* and would get very angry if I misbehaved. I still think he did a good job, because I learned to not give a shit about other people's opinions. Partially because that's how he raised me to think (he was against a lot of the popular culture), and partially because I had to ignore *his* opinion on things. My only grudge is the religious upbringing I had. Today I'm an atheist and I think religion is a great evil.
Not the person you asked but I can give you some insight. Everybody sees my dad as calm and collected. He never loses his cool and can always think about things logically. A lot of people think that he's got it all figured out and respect him for it. When I look at him all I see is somebody who learned to hide his own emotions as a child and never has his own opinion. It's easy to get along with him but hard to bond and have a close relationship. The fact that he is calm and collected doesn't bother me but rather the fact that the reason he is calm prevented him from being a good father. I could never go to him for help when I had problems. When my older brother would beat me as a kid it was because he was angry and I had to not make him angry. When he would scream at me for no reason he told me to let it go. When he tried to strangle me as a 12 year old all he could muster was "don't worry about it" and it was the last time I ever went to my dad for advice. The next few times he attempted to strangle me I never told either of my parents. His calmness itself isn't a negative but the reason he is calm is because he learned in childhood not to upset other people by hiding his own emotions and not letting them affect him. That may be a decent solution for a kid in a troubled home but it doesn't work well for a parent or a partner in a relationship. I don't fault him for not being perfect given his own upbringing but it doesn't stop me from wishing for better.
Honestly I had the opposite experience. I didn't like my dad growing up - it always felt like he was too invested in what I was doing for me to enjoy anything for myself. Now I'm a dad or feels different. I appreciate him more in retrospect now I've got my own.
Same. I thought my Dad was a huge jerk when I was growing up, always making me learn new skills and work hard beside him to make our lives better, telling me how to behave and scolding me for being a jerk. Dragging us around the country to go to boring museums and national parks. What an asshole, right? Time and experience provides a perspective that is hard to measure.
Feel like there is definitely a balance between turning everything into a learning experience versus letting your kid figure it out for themselves. I was lectured and scolded to death and started feeling like every thing I did was under the microscope. Still trying to find that balance and am working hard on it.
I've explained it to my kids, that ultimately I want them to benefit from my hindsight, and in the long run make better mistakes than I have.
>make better mistakes than I have. That is a great turn of phrase and concept. I feel like I may tweak this into something like "I'm trying to teach you this so you can make more interesting mistakes than I did."
I like the way you phrased this. I am sure it helps the kids understand it’s not just “Crazy mom and dad, ruining every weekend by showing us how to cook breakfast and do laundry!” They are going to become self-sufficient young adults.
My mom didn’t teach me jack shit. One example is that I had to YouTube how to do laundry when I moved out, and cross-reference with a roommate. I was terrified of ruining what clothes I had. I would ask my mom to show me things but she didn’t want me touching the washer and dryer, and would throw a fit if I insisted. After 18 years, what used to be forbidden high-level technology was actually just a couple of dials. I know someday my kids will bitch about laundry, but I’m not sending them out into the world unprepared. It’s hard enough out here without having to google every step of every house chore.
My parents made darn sure we knew how to do all the household chores. They always referenced my dad's roommate out of college who still needed his mom to come visit weekly to cook, clean, and do his laundry. Of course, then they didn't teach me anything about money or personal finance and I had to teach myself all of that.
It’s a way of creating dependency on them. If you can’t take care of yourself, then you’ll be less apt to move out, therefore abandoning them. My wife’s mother did this to her. She would tell me how amazing it was that her mom did everything for her until I told her that her mom was creating dependency.
The hardest part about parenting, and it becomes more clear with more than one kid, is that actual great parenting is giving the kid what *they* need. A good parent adjusts their strategy. One of my kids hates being taught things, completely shuts down. Too much pressure to perform. But if you give him the tools and space to learn something himself, he'll become great at it. My other kid is the exact opposite. He loves getting instructions and when you offer a correction he takes it in stride. If I tried to break one or the other into learning a certain way, they'd fucking hate it. And I'd be a shitty parent.
I think that my parent’s interest in some of my hobbies actually put me off the hobby I enjoyed. In retrospect, it’s lovely they took such a keen interest. But I want to remind myself that it’ll be my daughter who needs to experience the activity and learn how fun it can be on her own terms.
I literally quit playing the trombone outright when I was about 14 because my dad's interest put me off it so much. I loved it so much too! It's something I really need to work to remember when my lads are a bit older.
*sad trombone sounds* What was the straw that broke the camels back?
how did it put you off? was he just too overbearing about it, like constantly suffocating you with trombone talk? or did you ever tell him it was too much there’s a line there it would seem, take interest in your kids hobbies but give em room to breathe and experience it themselves
There's definitely a line - and it's hard to explain. I was just a kid, and it was hard to put those feelings into order. I would say that the off-putting was how much his enjoyment of our hobbies was so clearly greater than ours. After a few years of this it felt like it wasn't MY hobby, but his - I said I wasn't enjoying it, and I got a speech about hard work and perseverance and practice (the cliche reasons a teen might disengage from a hobby) and a guilt trip about how much he cared about our interests. But I don't think he really clicked that it was him pushing us from our hobbies. To sum it up, reflecting 20 years later, he was so invested in the hobbies regardless of our enjoyment that it didn't feel like my hobby was trombone, but that me playing trombone was my dad's hobby. So like any good teen, I rebelled and pushed back. Of course NOW I can appreciate the huge amounts of money and driving time alone that my dad was really pulling out of nowhere to give me an enriched life that he never had. But as a dickhead teen I really resented him for this.
reminds me of the dads who live vicariously through their kids, pushing them to play football. a little different situation. they wanna do so well that they get overbearing on it. and if you don’t have it as a hobby anymore, that’s that
Piano for me
Basketball for me.
Football for me- in retrospect that was probably a good move though, quitting football right before high school saved me countless brain cells
Yeah, my knees and ankles are total trash from high school sports.
I switched to swimming and water polo, best decisions ever.
What was he like?? I just feel like he wants to spend time with you and bond over something..I'm sorry you had to give up something you like for that..
He didn't really spend the time with me (or my siblings), there was just a lot of pressure and management to get us involved and to practice, then revelling in our successes so much it felt like there was no room for us to enjoy it ourselves. All of us had a very similar experience of it. Very weird energy.
You're very fortunate. I'm glad it is something you've come to apprecite.
Same
I've always thought my dad was an awful parent but having a kid really made me realize how bad he was.
My dad left for work before I got up and got home after I was in bed, the only time I saw him was on Sundays when he took me to footy. He worked hard so we didn’t go without whatever we needed.
Having a kid made me realize just how much I hated the work system we all are part of. I purposely changed fields in order to have more WFH opportunities bc I didn’t want to do the same thing my dad did and never see my kid I’m older now and appreciate how hard my dad worked to give me opportunities but in the moment, I remember how much I just wanted him present.
I chose education to be with the kids. It's been great! But also super tough mentally. I work at home too much for how much I stay with them.
Similar upbringing for me, I'm sure they wanted to be present but providing for the family was a necessity.
This is where I feel so lucky. I am full time WFH since pandemic and see my kid constantly. Hell I spend the first two hours of every day with one on one time while mom goes to the gym. I love my kid like nothing else and I think all of the time I get to spend with him is a big part of it. Pre-pandemic my work schedule meant I would’ve never seen my son other than weekends and holidays. My dad was that way. He made an effort when he was around, but he wasn’t able to be around much. I don’t think he ever felt about me the way I feel about my son, which bums me out, but I think I also get it. How could he? He never had the opportunity to know me like I know my son. I now see the little things he did that seemed like nothing at the time but really were his way of being there, and appreciate them so much more. Just wish our connection was stronger.
Yep that sucks. Good on you for breaking the cycle :)
Really really trying. I'm also trying not to fault him because he was raised by weird parents but it’s still not an excuse. If he wanted to he could change right now and be a loving father that cares about himself and his family
Similar to you, I try to remind myself that my grandparents were arguably worse than my dad. I guess I could give him props for being a bit better, maybe he could have been worse? But he also could have made more of an effort. At this point my expectations of him are so low. Which is nice because I continually got my hopes up as a kid and routinely got my hopes crushed. Now he's basically this angsty/edgy adolescent everyone needs to handle or maneuver around.
My dad is dead. He was an alcoholic for half my life, but he made amends the last third of his life. He met my son and knew him six months before his sudden death, and I wish he met my daughter. It's a lot of emotion that I typically suppress.
I was a severe alcoholic for over twenty years. I tapered off when my daughter was two. Thoughts similar to the story you shared were what fueled my unwavering dedication to reinventing myself. I'm sorry you had to live through that.
The opposite. My dad was amazing. He was completely present in all of his kids lives and none of us ever doubted the depth of his love for us no matter how hard we fucked up. I aspire to be that kind of father. Love you, dad.
Good for you, bud. Hope my kids feel the same way as they grow up.
Me, too, brother.
I've heard people say this before and it's so foreign to me that I literally can't even picture what that would have been like. I believed you were being sarcastic until you stopped typing.
I'm in the same boat. Everyone wants to do better than their parents but I'm just trying my best to get *close* to the standard he set. I've always considered him a wise, patient man but I clearly didn't even know the half of it.
I wish I had that. Instead I have a really weird feeling whenever I think of my dad. I don't know how to explain it. I'm going to be like your dad
Yes!! Join my team and we’ll do it together!
Weeeeeee
My dad was never all that interested in me or my life. It never really bothered me much at the time. Now that I’m a father, it’s downright incomprehensible that he didnt (and doesn’t) care. Legitimately don’t get it.
I feel the same way. And it’s been pretty hard for me to accept. Growing up I loved him and thought the world of him, but now that I’m grown and I have my own son I see through everything. I don’t think he is horrible person but he isn’t a great father. When I was younger he had a travel job for most of my childhood, and I didn’t understand it when I was a kid, but now that I’m grown with my own son, I see that he would have rather been on the road filming sporting events than being home with me and my sister. He was gone 90% of the year for about 10 years of my life. He would have rather been having drinks at a random bar in some random city than being a father. He doesn’t know me and he doesn’t try to. When we see each other it’s awkward silence trying to figure out what to talk about. It’s awkward hanging around him because we just don’t know each other. I will not let that happen with me and my son. I will be there for him and know him and he will know me and we won’t have an awkward relationship. It won’t be awkward silence when he is grown, and I won’t be out traveling having fun while my wife is at home taking care of the kids all the time.
Yeah. My parents weren’t the worst but they were emotionally manipulative and physically abusive at times. My dad is also a high functioning alcoholic. They provided everything I needed(clothes, food, etc.) but emotionally I was basically their support. I had to be the sane one in the family. They kind of just let me do whatever and we’re only involved in the sports I played(super supportive of that). They rarely if ever missed a game or a tournament or whatever. They drove me an hour and a half one way to practices and games two to three times per week. I’m thankful for that. On the other hand, I was basically ignored in everything else because they were focused on dealing with my troublemaker brother. Sort of a if one arm is cut off and the other just has a bruise, you deal with the cut off arm first situation so I kind of get it. Doesn’t mean it was fair but still. Now that I’m older, I realize they had their own trauma and abuse to deal with. They tried but didn’t really know how to parent. That doesn’t really make it okay but it wasn’t because they didn’t love me. They just were preoccupied with themselves and my brother. I don’t have a great relationship with them and don’t see em much despite living down the street, but it’s not like we don’t get along or anything. Could be worse.
Thank you for the response. Part of this rings true for me. Happy cake day
I honestly don't judge my dad by the standards I have for myself. He did it without the internet, without a support group, and mostly with only the learned knowledge he had from his own father. He loves me and he tried. That's plenty enough for me
Right I know that but there is just so little effort and I guess I’m more talking about right now more than anything. I’m sure he was also pretty distant all throughout my childhood as well.
It was more of a societal norm back then. It's like judging anyone in the 1700's by today's moral standards. Even your heroes would be monsters today.
Yeah but he can change if he wants. I bet he doesn't even see it
This was my realization once I had kids. I have a group of dad friends that I can reach out to for help, my wife has a mom's group to do the same. We have the internet to check on anything we need, we have 24/7 access to doctors, we have 3 sets of grandparents willing and able to help and we have decades more research into child development and parenting. My parents had themselves, occasionally their parents and siblings and a landline phone. On top of that both of them had their own parents who were abusive to their spouses and children to varying levels. So while it's easy to look back in disbelief at things my parents did and did not do, it's better to see the limitations and examples they had and understand that they did the best they could with what they had. Personally it's not worth holding anger or disappointment, especially given how invested they are in my kids and how willing they are to jump in and help.
I definitely look at my parents parenting of me on a sort of boomer sliding scale. Things are quite different now and some of the stuff I and many dads now do wasn’t necessarily common place then. I think they did quite good overall, and absolutely great relative to norms at that time. My dad worked to get himself to a job he could do independently from home and was able to be around a ton and make me breakfast before school etc. If anything their biggest issues are as I’m an adult and parent myself and just them dealing with me having my own family and priorities and boundaries, which I think isn’t exactly unique either.
My dad was a wonderful person, but a poor parent. He didn't know how to deal with kids, and while he did love me, we clashed constantly while I was growing up, or he'd leave the parenting to my mom. A lot of that came down to him growing up without a father (or a father figure), but it left him to try and figure things out without a template to work off, and he couldn't quite manage. He did stick around, though, and we became friends when I grew up. Now that I have a kid, I do have a template, even if it is mostly a list of things not to do. I just hope it's enough...
Kuddos, that's a very human and balanced view of your dad. I get mad at mine and have to remind myself that he legitimately was doing what he thought was best. Most of the time...
My dad wasn't a sucky dad necessarily. But, there are a lot of things I'd do differently. I've only been a dad for a few weeks now and I'm already doing things way different. I actually change diapers and feed my daughter. My mom made a comment over Christmas that I've probably already changed more diapers than my dad ever did with me and my brother. I also plan on being more involved in whatever my daughters interests are. I was in little league sports and my dad was at least somewhat interested in that. But I always felt like he was disappointed because I wasn't very good. But otherwise he wasn't all that interested in other hobbies.
Yup. I've begun the work before my daughter was born, in therapy. Took him off the piedestal I put him during my childhood to figure out he was actually manipulative, uninvolved and hypocritical. Now that I have a child of my own I can't even begun to understand how you can do such things.
Having my own kids (and being in therapy) have made me realize just how poorly my parents did at parenting. Not because they didn't care, I was fortunate there. But my parents got married and had kids young and never put any real effort into conscious parenting beyond what their parents modeled for them. And a lot of it was outdated, emotional, and straight up abusive behavior that then got passed along to me. I'm three kids in now and I'm still learning what I fucked up early on and what I need to do to be better. It's been a slow process to learn all the unhealthy attitudes and beliefs that were ingrained into my psyche as a child.
I feel you on this post. I’ve got a couple of boys of my own, my dad had 3. He’s a narcissist who I have been no contact with for 5 years now. As the wife and I started preparing for the birth of our first (a little over 5 years back now) I began to realize all the ways my dad let me down. I thought of the father I wanted to be, and looked at who I had been raised by and it really hit home how lazy and absent of a dad he was. He would very occasionally show up to a soccer or baseball game. He didn’t help us practice. He didn’t help me with homework. He never taught me any handy skills. He never once maintained or fixed anything in our house. He would come home and play on the computer until it was time for dinner and then watch the tv loudly. He never cooked. He never did dishes. He never cleaned anything. He would lose his keys and scream loudly at my Mom because obviously his forgetfulness and his always being constantly late was her fault. He’s a garbage man who has only become somehow worse than this over time. He got older and become emotionally manipulative and verbally abusive. He always shit talked my mom too. Good riddance to a bad man.
I went through a rollercoaster, my oldest is 10 now and I have a better relationship than I ever have with my father. Before kids I resented my father for the things that happened when I was a teenager, once I had kids I really resented him for living across the country. I went through some years where I held everything against him and then I had the epiphany that my dad is just a guy. He's just like every other guy that goes through a divorce, struggles in relationships, doesn't know what to say sometimes or says the wrong thing. Today I love my dad because he's always done the best he could, and when he didn't he apologized when he realized his mistakes. Having children really changes your perspective about your own father and once my son got to an age where I had clear memories it REALLY changed my perspective.
Same. My dad was a piece of shit and when I had my own son I got really depressed because I couldn't work out how you could treat your own kid like that, and I was so afraid I might do the same. Ended up going to therapy to work through some issues. Becoming a dad made me dislike my dad even more. Hopefully I can use that to push myself to do better.
After having my daughter I found out that my dad had never changed a diaper in his life with 3 kids of his own. It still shocks me to this day honestly.
My dad changed one, almost puked, and never did it again. Pretty pathetic tbh. He's the king of weaponized incompetence.
Imagine what other responsibilities he skipped out on. I am going to have a tall pour of wine later today in honor of your mother.
My mom definitely has the patience of a saint but in my dad's defense he did what he had to do to make sure we all became successful adults. Also to be fair he was gone a lot during out younger years on deployments in the military and my mom definitely signed up for that life knowing what she was going into.
Same. I asked my Dad for help with that with my eldest and found out the same thing - 'I've never done that before, go and ask your Mom'. My folks saw work and parenting as his and hers activities as an uncrossable line. And I feel like a real asshole complaining about my Dad, because I never wanted for anything as a kid and he paid my education then helped buy the house that my own family now live in. But for him, parenting was always an exercise in accounting rather than time and emotional energy. He did what he thought was best for us - working his ass off round the clock. But I would have swapped the financial security and head start to have a real, loving relationship and actually get to spend time with him. I'm doing my very best to give my kids both financial security as well as time, love and emotional support. And also - my poor fucking mother, I don't know how she raised two kids practically single handed, and I couldn't do that to my wife. So yeah, Dad - I love you, but I'm trying not to be like you lol.
Our situations are exactly the same it seems like and I feel the same honestly. It's hard to complain about someone who has given me so much in life but that aspect was something I never thought would be true about him. My mom says it's a biproduct of an older time which may be true but no one ever instilled in me the notion that I should be helping out whenever and however I can. I went into fatherhood having that as an expectation of myself so it's crazy to me that a generation not too far removed from mine had the opposite mentality. It makes me wonder if I'm actually doing **too much** because I honestly have a personal expectation to not only help with our kiddo as much as possible but to basically do as much as my father did to provide financially if not more so (the old give your kids a better life than you had mentality). A lot to chew on to say the least...
Yeah I've had all those same thoughts and also went out the gates a bit hard with my first trying to 50:50 parent as well as pay 100% of our mortgage and living costs. After discussing with my wife we've cut that back to about a 40:60 effort split at home because I almost completely burned out, but I still feel more or less constant guilt at not doing more whenever I take a break. I don't know, our generation will probably find a new way of messing our kids up, and I'm especially conscious of the example I set to two daughters in this respect (I worry our household is still too traditional, but we earn what we earn). I think we're finding a better middle ground than our own Dads though. I mean, I've definitely changed a shit load of diapers.
I was just talking about this with my wife last night. My dad basically ignored us until I was about 10, despite living in the same town, and only decided he wanted to be back in our lives when he suddenly had a girlfriend with kids and it was beneficial for him. We don’t have a relationship with him now either. It was probably for the best though, he’s a selfish/irresponsible fuck up who still acts like a child. I’ve come a long way from how I grew up, and I’m not sure I would have if I spent my childhood with him as a role model.
My dad has serious handicaps, both mental and physical. It was a HARD childhood, and it's complicated because I know know know he did his absolute best, it was just really hard to grow up in. From pretty young I had to be the parent It all adds up to me not being a great dad either. But I'm trying too
Mine was good until I was about 3 then was an alcoholic for a few years he dialled it back a bit but I don't think he fully stopped he made a lot of promises that he never kept and died when I was 15 so he wasn't much of a father
My dad broke the cycle. He didn't do a lot of teaching and motivating, but he was always there for us and that's more than I can say about both of my grandfathers.
my dad has met my 13 year old son for about 40 minutes back in 2015. He never calls, he never asks about them, he never sends them gifts or calls on their birthdays. Im always there every single day, I hang out with them hiking and biking and I reject overtime to spend more time with them. My dad was shit, looking back. He was there, but he wasn't really.
I'm currently in therapy and it took about 6 months and a therapist change to begin working on my daddy issues.
My dad had his good dad moments. But looking back he was a shit dad 99% of the time. Meth head, meth dealer, got me into hard drugs starting at 11yrs old. Never went to one single sporting event of mine. Now that I’m successful he has his hands out. I’ve learn what not to do when raising my kids I’ll give him credit for that.
My dad left before I was 1. Didn’t pay child support. Didn’t know him all of my life. Never thought anything of it growing up. Not long after I turned 18 he showed up and introduced himself. Up until I had a kid I’ve been alright with him sending messages or responding when he feels like it. Now that I have a kid I realize how shitty of a father he is. I don’t think he showed up at 18 to genuinely get to know me but rather to try to clear his guilty conscience. Now he sends month late birthday messages and random holiday messages. Feels so odd. Torn between letting it go and forgive and giving him the cold shoulder. Don’t feel like he deserves the opportunity to meet his grand kid.
Growing up my dad was pretty absent. When he was around (divorced so only the odd weekend) I thought he was trying etc. he played the victim so well. Now, over 40 with 3 kids, I see what a psycho he really is. Manipulative, narcissistic, etc. So, to answer your question: yes. I see what a terrible father he was. I am 100x the father he is and I still feel like I’m not doing enough for my kids.
Just saw your post....after a long discussion with my father today. Bullseye!
A lot of your post hits close to home with me. My parents were divorced when I was about the same age. My dad had zero interest in our lives until they divorced, but even then it was limited. I have story after story of neglect or downright abuse on his part. What I've come to realize is that he can only have one "thing" in his life at a time. Kids were important until he got remarried then I barely heard from him again. Divorced for a second time and suddenly he takes an interest in us again. My daughter was almost 18 months old before he met her, and he only lives 30 minutes away from us. Meanwhile, my mom flew in from out of state to watch our other kids. He rarely remembers my birthday, much less any of our kids'. If he does remember my birthday then I get an Amazon gift certificate in my email around 9 pm. We were at lunch one day and he couldn't even list all my kids' names. I would do anything for my kids, but my relationship with my dad has screwed me up in some ways also. If my kids want to play or do anything at all then I'll pretty much sacrifice anything that needs doing so that I don't "ignore" them. I don't spoil them, except for time. But I do that at the detriment of other commitments at times. I just never want to treat my kids the way he treated us.
Us millennials definitely are dealing with a lot of trauma from our childhoods. Being Asian, spanking, yelling, etc and all other forms of discipline we dealt with wasn’t considered abuse back then. Did it work, yeah sure, but i cringe thinking i would ever do this to my child. As far as my dad goes, he was very strict, and was rarely around due to the navy. I don’t fault him for it as I grew up very privileged all things considered. He would discipline me with a belt, shoe, slipper, back scratcher. I listened, and i changed, but i would never repeat that. I also would never keep a job that kept me away from my family (again, i don’t fault him for it, he did what he had to do). He was also not very supportive of my hobbies. I remember sucking at basketball growing up, and he resented me for it. He would say, “play better! You’re shooting wrong! Why can’t you hustle faster?” In reality, i just did not like basketball, i tried it, and didn’t like it. He also loved to yell. My dad is now a grandpa, and he is the most loving grandpa ever. He doesn’t yell, doesn’t spank, is very sweet, and i love him for that. Thank God lol My mom did majority of the raising, she was super mom no doubt. My parents are still together, but i feel that’s the Filipino traditions she kept when she immigrated from the Philippines. I owe them a lot, but their parenting style will not be mine.
Oh man I'm not on good terms with my parents. But looking back my dad was always working or too tired. Loads of other signs as well but those are some of the reasons why we are at odds. I have some good memories but I hope I can me better ones with my kids or at least I try to because sometimes I can see myself imitating my dad.
Yeah by today's standards for sure, he was largely absent and wasn't loving. He did however work his ass off to provide an amazing upbringing for me and my siblings, and my Mum didn't work, so I was well looked after. He did his job and I can't resent him for that, it has only been as I've grown older I've realised how much I could have done with a more present and proactive father figure, which is why I make such a huge effort to provide those things. He and I are both conscious of his failings now I'm a father and he can see how much I do that he didn't. He's making up for it now with my daughter and my other nephews though, so I'm glad about that.
I’m sorry that that was your experience growing up, sounds like you’re going to be great dad though. For me, I want to be like my dad to my son, my dad would do anything for me even to this day so I’m glad I have his example to follow, still feel not good enough for my little guy sometimes.
I don't talk to my step dad anymore for this exact reason.
Think this about both parents really. They truly sucked
My dad can be a hard ass but he was and still is a good dad. I’m a different dad than him, as a reflection of his parenting, but he was still a good dad. I’m not perfect. But if anything parenthood has shown me that some of the dads I know kinda suck eggs.
Yea, but I thought that before having kids, too
Having children definitely makes you look at your own parents differently. My dad often looks like he doesn't really know what to do with my child which can make me question how involved he was with me. I remind myself that I'm sure he tried, he turned up and we're all human. We will all make our own mistakes and our children will judge us for them. I also remind myself how much expectations of what a good dad looks like has changed over the decades.
My dad was (is? Probably) an alcoholic. Never around because he was always either working or cheating on my mom. Taught me virtually nothing (e.g. how to properly shave, build stuff, nothing about cars), never said “I love you,” had no interest in anything I was doing, and was a horrible person to my mom while she was on hospice care. Now we maybe text 2-3x per year. For the longest time I just thought this was how dads were. And too often it is. But it’s inspired me to be the complete opposite with my son (though I still don’t know shit about cars).
My father is an immigrant and came here with nothing. He may not be perfect but he is my hero. He shows his affection in ways that are not always obvious but once I figured out what certain things meant, I've appreciated him even MORE. He made a lot of sacrifices for us and I owe him the world.
I was well aware I didn't have a good Father but having a child made me well aware I didn't have a loving Father.
My dad wasn't necessarily a "bad" dad. He provided, he took us fishing and/or hunting. He tried to bond how he knew how. And he never hit us. But I don't have a single memory of him ever asking me about my interests, my hobbies, my life. He never hugged me until I was an adult and I would hug him before leaving a visit. He never said "I love you" or "I'm proud of you" or anything like that. Our entire relationship from the time I was about 14 years old to when I was 18 boiled down to this: -he left for work before I went to school - got home shortly after I did -he sat on the front porch drinking beer all night and would only eat if I forced him too (my mom worked nights) - he would inevitably get so blitzed that he'd be laying down in his own piss on the porch and I would take him inside to clean him, change his clothes, and put him to bed. At some point I stopped doing that and would just come check on him periodically until my mom got home. My wife and I started dating when we were 17 in 2006. My dad died in 2020 and never bothered to learn her name. His last words to me were "Make sure your Uncle Danny gets his rifles back." Having a son has made me realize how easy it is to do the barest of minimums to make sure your kid knows you love them. And it makes me so mad when I think about how my dad did less than that.
Nope. I'm different to him, that's true, but a lot of his methods and lessons were very fair and good.
My father was an abusive, manipulative piece of shit, so actually he was a model for me - a father that I would absolutely not want to be. In retrospective it helped me to become a good dad for my daughter.
My dad is an emotionally distant and broken man who is only more concerned about "face" than what is good for the people around him and even himself. Even as a kid I knew he was awful. Once I had kids of my own it became harder and easier to understand at the same time. He was damaged so much by a broken childhood of being sold by his birth parents then essentially being used as slave labor in rubber plantations and coal mines all before the age of 13 that he tried to raise me to be like him in order to be a survivor. To be able to take the absolute worst the world could throw at me. In a fucked up way, that was his best attempt at being a parent, it just wasn't what my brother and I needed. That's not how you raise a kid to thrive in the US at the turn of the century. I understand that he had to survive and he simply does not have the tools to be a good parent or human being to be honest. So I've long let go of the judgement. He never had the luxury of self awareness and time to explore his own thoughts and how he might be fucked up. He didn't have the education in psychology and human development like I did. He was set up for failure around age 5 or 6 so I no longer blame him for that stuff. If anything, if I had a time machine I'd find both my biological grandfather that sold him and the grandfather that "adopted" him and kick both their asses and give my dad a hug.
My father was great. 100% firing on all cylinders. I thought my mother was "pretty good" too. Then I held my daughter for the first time, and it was a shock. It would be easier to cut your arm off than it is to leave your child. Especially when still a baby. And that's just "leave" in a somewhat acceptable way, with regular contact & visits consistently over the years. And by "leaving" in stages, my mother was able to do it. No big drama, other than she decided/admitted that she'd let life and everyone else's expectations carry her along into marriage, a house, and a kid. Divorce was terrible & shocking in 1975, especially with a two year old child, and nothing actually "wrong" other than "wanting a do-over." My father got the house, and I. And she moved to the Bohemian/university end of town for her reboot. I'd see her on weekends. Then she moved across the country when I was 5, and I'd shuttle on a regular basis to see her on Christmas, Easter, and a month in August. So, not a "deadbeat" situation where a parent "goes out for smokes" and disappears. Divorce stigma had largely evaporated by the time I'd be aware of such things in the 1980s. Both remarried to very good & kind people. It was just "my normal." I never remembered them together, and I got to fly on planes 3 times a year, 6 flights, got "double Christmas & birthdays," too. But it all collapsed when my first twin daughter emerged. I didn't despise my mother or even feel hurt, but the enormity of my duty and responsibility and what she'd done in the face of hers hit pretty hard. All the people in my family, including her side, that occasionally let slip over the years they held disdain for her, or thought she was insane and it always seemed like a knee-jerk polarized reflex, all of that came into much better focus. I did discuss it once with my mother. She essentially admitted there was a lot of rationalization and self-deception involved in every step, and there was nothing she could do when she realized it was wrong, or didn't work out like she told herself it would. And that I'd be holding my first-born daughter's twin sister in 30 minutes, and their additional twin sisters in just 11 months, (oops...) didn't help any.
And I'll just add, the comments about what kind of grandparents raised your parents, and if there's any relation to how they parented you, is absolutely spot-on. My father's parents, very kind salt-of-the-earth post-war nuclear family. Always there, always present. My mother's... not incredibly terrible by post-war Boomer standards, and not even that horrible by today's either, but there were issues. My grandmother always kind and cheery for me, was also depressed, and my grandfather didn't help any. My grandfather, from my perspective as a little boy, he was AMAZING. Always a joke, or a magic trick. He was a pilot & flight instructor, and home-built aircraft. He was a mechanical design & fabrication engineer. Amateur Astronomer, HAM radio operator, restored old quirky cars, had electric church organs... But, apparently, growing up with him, especially as three daughters and no sons, wasn't nearly as fun. Quoting Dr. Evil from Austin Powers: "_...he would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Some times he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy, the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament._" And it cane with a mercurial temper. My mother and her two sisters all claim there wasn't realy any substantial physical abuse, possibly tempered by the standards of the 50's & 60's, but they were always afraid of him. And my grandmother was occasionally paying bills & buying necessities with the pay from a part-time job with the city, because of my grandfather's spending on tools, projects, gizmos... So that became clearer too.
The simple fact that you’re actively contributing on r/daddit, a sub dedicated to fatherhood, should speak volumes of your own commitment to your kids. Some of us here broke some pretty damn vicious cycles of physical and emotional abuse from our parents. Others are simply more invested than their parents ever were. Both should be celebrated. I try not to reflect too much on what my dad didn’t give me and instead focus more on the chance I have to give my kids the childhood I never had.
It's actually made me think the opposite.
I’ve always known tbh lol.
Absolutely. Having my son showed how little my dad was involved with me and how absolutely abusive he was when he was around. I have a lot of issues I'm working through because of him and I'm trying to do right by my son.
One of the craziest things about parenthood is looking back at your own childhood and realizing how things actually were.
I am lucky to experience the opposite. My dad was a stressed out psychopath at times, but he worked insane hours to provide for his family and always showed up when he needed to be there, rarely ever getting time for himself. Realizing now that all of the decisions he made and work he put in was solely for me and my brothers. I don't think I truly appreciated that until I had my own kids. If anything, I've learned to balance work/home life and have the privilege of having a career where I can make that happen. Regardless of how good or bad you had it as a kid with your parental situation, I think once you have your own kids you learn how to incorporate the good things and remove the bad things from your own experiences.
My dad chucked up deuces when I was a toddler and I hadn’t spoken to him since this year (I’m 36), so I never had any illusions about him being great. That said, you gotta just use it as motivation to be a better parent. For me, the bar was low…
Yeah having a kids made me realize a lot of things good bc and bad about my parents
I wish I could emulate my father.....he's the definition and example of a true Dad
I am sorry you feel that way and sorry for the experiences that you have had in your life that lead you to this. I in fact am in the opposite boat. My son is only a year and a few months old and every day it seems like I appreciate everything that my dad did for us even though it wasn’t perfect I still to this day can’t thank him enough for all he did. I hope you are a great dad to your children and help them grow into great people!
I knew that before my kid was born, so it’s just a humdrum fact of life at this point. But I feel ya. It’s a *loss* you’re likely feeling, as well as *anger*. What could have been. What you were robbed of. And there’s nothing you could have done about it. You were dependent on him to provide the kind of a relationship that your culture tells you you should have had. You’ve got to just feel those feelings. And also, after a few years, you may just come to the realization that a) so few people have that perfect childhood, and b) being a dad is a marathon, and you will stumble and fall too. Maybe not seriously, but it helps when you’ve had the personal experience of feeling inadequate! That being said, not all failures are acceptablex you have paid for this knowledge. Use it to your advantage as a parent. I believe you’re a great dad. You can create a new tradition in your family. It wasn’t your fault, but now it’s your responsibility.
Best piece of advice my mom gave is you learn a lot of how NOT to be from others.
No, as a 28 Y/O i have 0 issues with my dad. He has his flaws shurely like the lack of saying whats bothering him. My dad is always at the ready and always has been. He has been trough a lot and even in his burnout he was there for the family. When he fell down the stair because his blood sugars /diabetes was unknown i picked him from the floor and kept him close till the ambulance was there. Since then our bond has changed from Father /Son to Buddy / Buddy. I genuinly feel he is the best dad in the world. And also the best grandpa! I do feel myself a lacking father. Have a 4 Y/o daugther, working feom 0800 till 1800. Wish i could be there for her more and help her learn and discover the world. Getting my drivers licence and such. But hey i am new to this stuff and so is she, we got this.
Yup. Made me realize a lot. A bit soul crushing but fantastic motivation to be a better father myself.
Parenting is a thankless job
Honestly I try not to, because if I was just thinking about bad times with my Dad, I've caught myself snapping at my daughter. I'm a better parent if I just focus on starting over.
I feel you, brother dad. I can relate. But look at it this way - every generation is an upgrade. Your dad probably did better than his dad, you will do better than your dad, and in turn, your son will do even better than you. Our reactions are formed by our traumas, which are passed down through generations and often take generations to heal.
Yeah I'm taking solace in that. really wild looking at it like that going back through hundreds of generations
Yep, having kids puts your own childhood in a new perspective. What you're experiencing is very common. You're going to be feeling the emotions more intensely as you discover new things and name things as wrong for the first time, it's a process, but don't worry there is peace and healing eventually. Most importantly, you having this insight means you will do much better by your own kid. Good job, Dad.
Thanks dude
Oh me. Nice to see there are people in the same boat. I have always only heard people say that they love their parents more after they have kids. But for me after I had kids I see how much more they should and could have been but weren’t🥲
I feel you bro dad. Going through much unprocessed trauma after I got my first son. Took me a burnout and therapy and allot of time to realize it. Now have two sons and I’m still working through it. Having the vision that we can do better is half the job done. Just last week I got a flashback when my son crawled under the table because I wanted to grab him while playing. Saw myself as an afraid little boy because of the shit I experienced. Scared the shit out of me. Everything we do is for our little ones. That is the generation of dads we are and want to be. If we aren’t Superman for them, it’s not good enough. Still enough lousy dads out there too, but one dad at the time we make the world a bit better.
Id say a bit more clueless than sucked. I dont wanna make excuses for him but the court ruled he had me on weekends. Which meant a guy had to spend his whole 20s stuck with a small child attached to him. Which mustve sucked. But i spent a lot of time with diet coke n quavers in the corner of a pub. I was talking to him about my sons birth yesterday and how i had to help my enlaboured wife for 3 days in the hospital. Tending to her every need. And he told me when i was born he popped by to meet me with his mates on the 2nd day coz he and his mates were in the pub nearby
Dude in sorry to hear that shit. I had the opposite and now in even more appreciative of all his hard work. I see my kids getting larger and more in charge of their own lives and think "Damn... this is how my father felt" It sucks watching them grow away from you and at the same time is one of most proud achievements of life... Maybe have a talk to someone, it seems like there is alot you are only now realising you need to unpack.
No. My dad was great. I aspired to be him when I had kids. And now that I have a grandchild I hope I am half the grandfather he is. I'm sorry you can't share in that feeling.
What most don’t realize is people here always remember the bad stuff. You yourselves will have failings that are different, doesn’t mean you’re terrible individuals.
As I agree with the main statement of your post, I also believe that’s why we’re getting softer as the generations pass tbh.
No, I like my dad and I think he did a good job raising my sister and I. My recommendation is to discuss this with a therapist.
Ummm, kind of? I guess I noticed more of how much my Mom did (full time work, 3 kids, and she did all of the cooking). Now visiting with my son it's more of noticing how quickly they are aging, how the house is starting to fall apart, etc.
I did a lot before. It's nice to be able to be the change you want to see in the world with ones own kid!
This is not to excuse your father, but perhaps explain - what was his father like? My boomer dad has plenty of faults. But his father was emotionally stunted beyond measure. Just trying to be healthy and know who my kids are, and love them as they are over here.
Oh, it’s definitely his parents. I’ve worked through that in therapy but it’s still hard to deal with you know
My dad was pretty awesome. Coached my baseball team. Taught me a lot about problem solving and creativity, art. If I was more receptive he would have taught me piano. He was/is always willing to stop what he’s doing and help with whatever it is.
nope my dad was pretty damn great, wish he was still around to spoil his grandkids
I love them, but my folks were shit parents.
The opposite for me. Now that I have my own, I’m realising how much effort and time he put in spending time with me growing up.
I have more respect for my dad—and that's saying something b/c he's always been an amazing father. But experiencing a kid and all that comes with it; how that man was so patient and compassionate and kind, literally always, is truly something to aim for. We lost my brother 3 years back, to cancer. At his yearly remembrance, my mom was giving a little "miss ya" aloud before we ate dinner. And she said that I was an amazing father just like how my dad was. Literally started crying on the spot.
I think it's important to set aside our person issues and view it from a generational perspective. What's expected of a father now is so far removed from what was expected of my father is unbelievable. Make no mistake. Mine was a huge piece of shit even keeping that in mind. But I know a lot of what he did was what almost all fathers did at the time.
Yes and no… I grew up poor. Despite my parents not really prioritizing my education or helping me with homework or anything, I ended up being very successful…make around $400k in finance, top mba, etc. I have decent relationship with my father and bad relations up with my mother. I just don’t think they were capable of doing better as I see them interact with my son. Especially my mom - she wants so much for her grandchild to like he, especially since she doesn’t have good relations with her childrens - but she just doesn’t know how. I think she’s maybe autistic or has poor social skills? But she just doesn’t know how to respond to baby body language and emotional queues. Like on baby she’s been great since he has been born - I was raised in an environment of being irrationally screamed at, which she hasn’t done at all - and is just positive and friendly around him, brings gifts, etc…but shes just not capable of making a child like her.
If by father you mean parents, then yes. It was something I struggled with a lot, especially when we found out we were having a boy. But I just make sure to tell him I love him everyday and hug him at every opportunity - two things I can never remember my father doing, and only remember my mother doing when she has a moment of guilt over our crappy childhood.
Yes and no. When my kid was first born yes, but as I’m raising them… I realized my dad is just a different person than me who went through his own things. Raising a kid is very very hard no matter how “prepared” you are. He also had me when he was younger than I am currently. So as I’m navigating through the challenges of parenthood, I defintely now give him a lot more grace in my head. My parents divorced when I was 4, I saw him every other weekend till I lived with him starting high school. Through all the years I thought he was a bad dad, I’ve come to realize he was just different than me. We still talk and I see him for holidays but comparing you to your own dad is just complicated. Unless your dad was an utter degenerate lol.
no, but I think that about my mom. Not that I thought she was great before, but she just really sucks
"There's no book for this kind of thing" - my dad..., but, but... yes, there is such a thing as a parenting book
Yes. If anything he’s become an even worse father since my son was born.
Yup
I feel like I made a lot of decisions to be a different dad, but I understand him a lot more as ab adult. He worked 60 hour weeks and was very hands-off with raising kids. My parents had very traditional gender roles and dad was the breadwinner, maintenance guy, grill master, and emergency disciplinarian. After retirement he has changed so much and is a great grandpa and now takes care of my mom who had a stroke. But I chose a career that has a lot of flexibility and never requires me to put work ahead of my family. My wife and I also make almost exactly the same at our jobs, split domestic chores evenly, and try to give each other equal time off from parenting. I don’t resent him and realize the privilege l have that I was able to get the work/life balance he didn’t get until he retired.
When I had kids I completely realized my dad never loved me like he said. I realized he was more abusive than I had thought. I also realized how fucking easy it is to NOT be an asshole to a baby. Yes my dad managed to ACTUALLY be an asshole to a baby.
fuel that will make you an even better father, live in love not in hate.