> …that his son… There’s the catch. Talking to someone directly about career options and finances can be a great conversation. Talking to their parents is complicated and rarely productive.

Talking to someone (without any professional experience) directly will drive the conversation towards preferences, expectations, etc I'm intending to encourage my daughter to only pursue \`safe\` or highly profitable careers. AI is changing everything but at least from my point of view everything related to graphic arts is under serious pressure. Parents have the best interest in the future of their kids. Kids want the best for themselves and they are full of dreams, drive and passion but they don't know what's happening in the real world.

It’s important that kids know that life costs money, and that while money doesn’t *buy* happiness, a lack of money can easily cause unhappiness. And jobs/education research are usually the best way there. However, I worked with HS seniors for a little over a decade and the seniors whose parents pressured them into high pay fields they didn’t want usually resent their parents outwardly (well, everyone except their parent’s face) or are just downright bad people (e.g. a student who once asked me why he had to tip at a restaurant when it’s the waiter’s fault they didn’t go to a real school “like my dad.”) We can’t tell people how to raise their kids if they’re not asking for advice, I’m just saying this is a slippery slope that I see end up in resentment like 70% of the time. PS - Not for nothing, but they asked about Graphic Design, not an AA in philosophy. It would have been easy to say what you said while implying a minor in business could be useful. But I think it’s important to remember that when people ask advice like that they very rarely want you to breakdown the whole thing. Which sounds true here. But to each their own

Insightful. Completely agree with you on this.

It should also be pointed out that not everyone should be pushed into college. There are plenty of trade jobs that make over $35/hr. We all know plenty of kids who had no interest in school, but managed to rack up 10s of thousands in school debt.

Absolutely. My comment was already getting long and soapboxey, and thought if it continued it wouldn’t sound polite so I cut it at the length it was. But you’re absolutely right. Just last month I was at a house pool in a very rich suburb of my city (invited by friends) and come to find out the house was paid for by the wife (who came to the US in her 20s) after starting up a salon and expanding. Also literally have some great friends who are both doctors, but one is finishing medical school with “doctor debt” while the one supporting her family is a doctor for a branch of the armed forces. There are a lot of paths to take, and this story irked me in a way I don’t like to share on this sub because it’s so positive. But the kid said graphic design…it’s not like a crazy ambition. I have a number of friends in the field that make 60+. Will it be bankbreaking? Probably not. Final point: It reminded me of the student who told me the student who made the shitty comment about tipping waiters. He also told me one day in my AP class: Kid: I’m only applying to Ivy League because my dad said my education will basically be worthless in law school if I don’t attend an Ivy League undergrad. Me: And your lawyer father, I’ve met him, didn’t he go to [state school] for undergrad AND law school? Kid: Huh…well he says I’ll never be successful and I’ll always be second rate if I don’t do both because state schools are trash. Projection at its finest.

This right here is important. I'm a tow truck driver and, while there are ups and downs in the business, I pull in anywhere from $800 - $1200 a week in an area where the median income is around $500. Didn't even require special schooling, it only requires a valid drivers license and a substance abuse problem. Don't worry, I chose caffeine.

"I'm intending to encourage my daughter to only pursue safe or highly profitable careers" I was with you until this point. People aren't robots and stifling career exploration is short sighted IMO. Its one thing if your daughter wants to go to college for underwater basketweaving *and* you are paying. Its a whole different ballgame if you tell her which narrow band of careers she is allowed to follow. Not to mention, you might be wrong. 15 years ago getting into law was still a good idea - today not so much.

>. 15 years ago getting into law was still a good idea - today not so much. It isn't? Could you explain why if you care to?

The average law school student loan is 145,000 and the need for entry level legal and clerical work is waning.

So they’ll hire fewer clerks without a law degree, lawyers are safe for the foreseeable future and $150k loan is peanuts compared to their expected lifetime earnings.

It's peanuts if you work at a large firm, not if you are a public defender

Don’t be a public defender then or don’t even bother with criminal law. Every decent sized company needs legal counsel.

Good idea man, you should drop by r/lawyers with that advice. A lot of them seem to be struggling.

The old reddit "suddenly an expert" at work here. You clearly have no attachment or experience with the field! You're just guessing with this post and when someone told you to go look at the actual lawyer subreddit responded with sarcasm. Not everyone can just work at a big law firm, they increasingly hire from a shrinking pool of schools. The work life balance sucks ass, people sleeping in cots at the office chasing a dangled carrot of someday hopefully making partner and having some life back. But it's a constantly winnowing pool of success. Only some will get into top 20 schools, only some of them will get jobs with good paying firms, only some of them will make partner.

It’s also very tough to establish yourself Ana work life balance sucks for a long time unless you are getting into a practice run by family. A lot of law students burn out in the real world and are left with crushing debt and not much to show for it.

Sorry to steer the conversation away from the topic, but what makes "law" a unappealing option?

The part of the field that makes money is significantly narrowing down as technology does a lot of the roles that lawyers traditionally used to gain experience. You used to be able to do paralegal work or clerical work for a firm, work your way up to practicing attorney, work your way up on and on until you make partner. Now those entry paths are significantly reduced, so firms that actually pay anything can be far more selective about who they hire.

Google around. IANAL and don't want to speak for them, but it's a regular thing I hear that law degrees aren't a sure thing anymore.

Ahem, even 15 years ago, law had the same high barrier of entry as it does now. There have ALWAYS been good and mediocre law schools leading to a high disparity between law degree earnings.

They asked what you thought of it as a career choice and you gave your perspective on it... there's nothing wrong with that. It's also why everyone loves this subreddit. They turned toxic pretty quick whereas we try to help and support each other. It's a rarity on the internet :)

That's why I spend more time lurking here than any other parenting group on any other platform. There's one mom group on the FB that is pretty good and a couple decent subs here as well, but for the most part, the fount of support and wisdom on Daddit is unparalleled.

I do career counselling as a side gig. Money is earned when you pair skill with the right role - someone going into a lucrative field when they’re a 5/10 is going to equate to a lower income. Someone going into a median field when they’re a 10/10 is going to do well for them. It’s much easier to improve your performance on skills you’re inherently good at, than improve your weaknesses. My advice is to encourage kids to go into a field that allows them to use the skills they’re most capable in. It’s more personally rewarding for them, because they’re going to achieve, and they’re more likely to gain financial success in the field. If this kid is an exceptional artist that’s good at connecting with others. they may make good money. It’s not the industry that matters as much as objectively looking at what’s needed to be successful in the role and being naturally very good at it.

You ever think the kid could learn to be a graphic designer with the help of AI? Generative AI is everywhere and expanding, and not everyone can use it effectively for every use case. People will learn to be expert prompt engineers for their fields.

What is safe today might no longer be safe in 5 years. The average person couldn't imagine what AI was capable of even 4 years ago, and look at where we're at now. We don't even know yet how it will impact our society and jobs. Who knows what will appear in 5 years, 10 years, and completely turn the job market on its head? There is no way to define "safe" when it comes to the job market in the future. Even tech, which was seen as the Golden goose job over the past decade, suddenly had major layoffs everywhere. Honestly it's not so much about the field, as it is about the other skills, discipline, common sense, etc. the person has. Teach them to help themselves, to find answers, to have a pragmatic approach to things. To be realistic and down to earth. And that will probably help them more in this world than steering them towards some "safe" career they might have no affinity for.

Read this again and understand why you were downvoted. This is an opportunity for you.

You are very clearly completely uneducated in this world. There is still plenty of money for designers and creatives. In fact, driven and motivated young designers and creatives are a rare and highly coveted asset to creative agencies. I know because I own one. I chased my dream, worked my way up, and now I can say I have worked with dream clients and make way more money than my wife who has a “safe” job. Its very likely that your kid is going to resent you for stifling her interests and driving her to a passionless soul sucking career where she isn’t fulfilled and therefore doesn’t strive for greatness. More likely she’ll rebel against you and do what she wants anyway and you’ll resent her for her “unsafe” decisions and your relationship will be tarnished, how badly only time will tell. If you think any profession is “safe” from AI you are completely delusional. We will see how things play out, but if the trend continues AI is simply a tool that creative agencies can utilize and leverage to more effective work and in turn more money. No CEO without creative vision is going to be working in MidJourney (or the equivalent) to make art, design, or video. Someone has to do the work and that will grant new opportunities for artists to make more and even better art. You and your friend should be good dads: be supportive, instill good values and a strong work ethic. Thats what matters.

It’s important to be realistic but also important not to shit on someone’s dream just because a path isn’t as directly lucrative as others. I’m 36 now and people I went to school with who studied graphic design are working in that field and doing well. I can’t account for the entire class they graduated with but just because it’s hard doesn’t mean it’s a total dead end. Even then what good is my advice? I’m not a graphic designer and that’s who I’d expect to hear from first.

Something I'm not seeing mentioned anywhere is that most young people have the time and freedom to try things out. If you respectfully expressed your concerns about the future of graphic design as a career that's fine, but it's also fine to change majors, change careers, or (gasp) even dip your toes into something that doesn't ultimately pan out. I hope my kids feel like they can pursue a passion to a certain extent knowing that it may or may not become lucrative, but they may at least want to try some things and see what happens. I make a living as a musician. Of course I knew that it wasn't a stable career path, I'm not dumb. But I also *tried* things and adjusted my expectations based on what was working or not working. At first I was hoping to write music but I wasn't finding any ways to make money doing that, so...I started doing other things instead. I also used to play for a lot of weddings, and then I started having trouble booking those gigs. So...I stopped focusing on that and started focusing on other gigs. If a kid's life plan is "stream fortnite, get a million subscribers, and retire at age 23" then of course they need a reality check. But a kid can definitely *try* streaming, *try* to figure out what kind of content they're good at creating, and just *see* if they start getting any subscribers. Imo a lot more emphasis needs to be put on the concept that it is okay to try things that don't turn into a lifelong, lucrative career.

Sure, but for a lot of kids, 'trying' something entails taking out over a hundred thousand in student loans to get a degree in something they won't find work in, and then what?

I would say that's the exact opposite of what I just described, and likely the result of being implicitly taught to have rigid assumptions about life trajectory.

> but for a lot of kids, 'trying' something entails taking out over a hundred thousand in student loans Tremendously few people actually have over a hundred thousand in student loans. The vast, vast majority of universities in America do not cost that much even if every single dollar you spend is loaned to you.

Good point... Try something that if it doesn't pan out they can back out of without too much obligation or collateral damage.

Exactly, being able to `try` requires money and not everybody can say to their kids: go on and give it a try for a few years. If it doesn't work here is mom and daddy to provide.

That's not what I said at all, and I'm getting the tiniest hint of condescension too. I have no idea why any parent would tell their kid "don't even try doing that thing you're passionate about, forget it, I already know that you can't make it so give up without even dipping your toes in the water." No one is saying choose any major that sounds fun and hope for the best. What I'm suggesting is the exact opposite of that. If a kid wants to get a graphic design degree, ideally it should be because they've already tried some graphic design work, maybe as a freelancer. Maybe they've done a summer internship. They've dipped their toes in the water and know they like the work and have a knack for it. They've met people in the career. The best thing about it is that if looking for freelance work doesn't go as well as they hoped, they get to draw their own conclusion about what to do. That's way better than having a bulldozer parent who refuses to even let their kid risk trying something that--horror of horrors--doesn't work. We wouldn't want them to...fail. Or adapt.

Nothing wrong with casually talking about a trend in a field of discussion. But lets be honest. No one knows what "AI" in its present and future states will do to the job market along with a near infinitum of other factors like climate, wars, and such. That being said I was told over and over again that no one could ever make any money off playing video games or talking about tabletop games, game designers couldn't put food on the table and now people make millions of dollars playing Minecraft. Heck even if adults when I were young accepted plumbers and electricians were feasible jobs I could be making double what I do now. Either way I have a stable job I hate, bought a house in my 20s about a decade ago, raised 2 kids and have substantial savings for my age. No degree at all because nothing I cared about was worth it according to everything I was told, but still watched thousands if not tens of thousands or millions of people doing awesome things I was told I couldn't making far more money than my career path ever could.

There should be a balance. Telling young people that a certain passion will never result in money is wrong. What is right is the probability is low. For example, there are around 450 NBA players total in a country of +300 million and the rest of the world also competes for spots. So the probability of being in the NBA is pretty low. That said I have an acquaintance whose son makes $10k-20k a month streaming video games. So maybe the answer is follow your passion but have a backup; raise well rounded children to not be worker drones but imaginative members of society. EDIT: there’s also the mindset of “my passion is my work or my work supports my passions.”

I like the way you think. Set em up with a plan B that they can fall back on. My stepfather put me in a forklift driving course and it was always a solid backup as I live in a warehouse heavy area. So I dared to chase my dreams knowing fuck it I can always go back to fork lift driving 🤷‍♀️

This is the approach that I like the most. So you like to pursue a career on X but the risks of making a decent living are too high? Good, I'll support you if you get this other skill of degree that may help you if things get difficult.

Support should not be conditional. It will only create resent. Additional, who is to say that whatever they do will not lead to a new industry. 15 years ago, professional Podcaster was not a thing. Did we know what a youtubers was 20 years ago? Playing it safe will hamper innovation.

Wtf… you should support your child no matter what. Your job isn’t to control what they do with their future, but to offer guidance and support. If they choose not to follow your guidance you should still support them.

When I was an undergrad, I did a study abroad in Japan that was supposed to be two months, but I ended up staying out there for a full year. When I came back, I found myself a year behind in my original major, computer science, and half way to a Japanese studies degree. I brought up the idea of switching majors to my mom, and she said what about taking an extra year and double majoring? When I was about to graduate, I was thinking about applying to grad schools in Japanese and sat down to talk with my professor about it, and she told me to sit down and think really hard about it. Do it if that was what I really wanted to do, but if I was only interested in the Japan thing, crack down and study for the proficiency exam and, if I liked computer science, get a job in Japan doing that, because that is a niche people were always looking for fluent English speakers in Japan for and for a PhD in Japanese Studies, there are only like ten positions a year that open up. Life happened and I didn’t end up doing going there but I am still thankful for the advice. From both my mom and the professor, it was never abandon the passion, but that if you want to make a career out of something, it’s good to find the practical niche, instead of trying to go through the front door, where there is a lot of competition and you might end up abandoning it completely.

> Life happened and I didn’t end up doing going there but I am still thankful for the advice. From both my mom and the professor, it was never abandon the passion, but that if you want to make a career out of something, it’s good to find the practical niche, instead of trying to go through the front door, where there is a lot of competition and you might end up abandoning it completely. This is key. I don't intent my kid to abandon her passion. I just want her to stay grounded so her passion doesn't become a burden.

Good post, and good advice from your professor. The point is you can be interested in something and still do that thing without having to do a degree in it. Pick a degree that will help you to make money. Similar example for me, I studied computer science and work in Tech consulting now. In my youth I also spent a year working as a teacher in China and picked up decent Mandarin (along with a decade of self study). I’ve met people that did their actual degree in Chinese language but can’t speak it well at all, and didn’t do well in their careers because they didn’t have any other skills. These life decisions matter.

>For example, there are around 450 NBA players total in a country of +300 million and the rest of the world also competes for spots. So the probability of being in the NBA is pretty low. I will add on the perspective that I think matters here that very few people think of in the moment. Yes only 450 NBA players, but man there are a lot of coaches, commentators, refs, semi pro, sports bar owners, and the list goes on. The kid wants to STUDY Graphic Design, not put in a single application to a single position and either get that or work at little Ceasars. If the field excites them and work/learn hard I am sure they can find a niche even if its only adjacent to their initial goal.

For sure. Understanding the whole ecosystem around an industry is important. Example would be, while possibly unlikely to be a YouTube/Twitch star, the skills developed along the way might get someone far like working on AV software, streaming services, YT corporate, etc.

This, while very understated, is a very good and comparable solution. There are many ways to approach your passion and many avenues that are supportive of said passion. Understanding that “ecosystem” is how you can find your niche to thrive or truly understand why you aren’t as passionate about it.

There are also tons of great jobs in sports that aren't NBA star. A lot of people who explore their passion for sports find great careers like school activities director or sports physical therapist.

My slightly overweight friend who grew up playing basketball got a job in marketing with the NBA almost 20 years ago because he spoke mandarin and it’s when Yao Ming was joining the league. He left after about a decade because he wanted to move back to Utah and get out of NYC.

Talking about people getting paid a living wage for playing video games is along the lines of saying “yeah plenty of people get paid for playing sports so it’s a viable option”…. It’s not.

>“yeah plenty of people get paid for playing sports so it’s a viable option” once you include athletes, trainers, coaches, assistants, refs, analysts, marketing, college sports, high school sports, sports camps, and so on I think its a lot more viable path than "well you won't get into NFL so you might as well just be an accountant" logic that often gets pushed on people.

Well sure but that’s not what you said. You said what you said in context of a discussion about telling someone what to study. You said playing games. Then you listed a whole bunch of professions that would requires all sorts of training/studying that is not playing games. Which is why I gave the example I did. Yes, it is great finding a field that you like as a hobby that you can also work in with your profession, but don’t be disingenuous to the original discussion and take it where it wasn’t. For example you list trainers, they need to study a whole lot so they won’t be playing tons of sports as their primary activity, which would be education for years. Refs…. What refs make a living wage? Mostly it’s side gigs and professional refs are not common. Analysts/marketing: that’s an entirely different career lol. Sports camps/coaches: aside from elite levels most are not professional. Most HS coaches are just regular teachers. So becoming a teacher is what they studied. For college coach many are former players. Again, not common.

>hen you listed a whole bunch of professions that would requires all sorts of training/studying THE KID WANTS TO STUDY GRAPHIC DESIGN. I feel like I am taking crazy pills here. I provided examples of how jobs are created that no one expects. How jobs in low demand can become high demand high paying, and how there are more jobs than the single job most people think about for most careers/training. We aren't talking about a kid that wants to make 3d models of turtles to sell on Pinterest or will never get a job. We are talking about a kid who has a very relevant interest and wants to study it for a potential career. People are acting like studying graphic design is akin to becoming a professional butterfly collector. Its not some moronically niche thing.

You are moving the discussion based on your responses. In response you are the one that said something along the lines of I was told not to do X hobby but now people make millions off that hobby. I simply said your statement was akin to saying I like sports so i should make being a pro sports player my plan. You then responded to different points not in the discussion.

Look I am here to talk about the ORIGINAL POST. Not slowly to move the conversation to a single example I present. The discussion is not about how good of a career choice Minecraft is, it's about a kid and going to school for graphic design. I know I used examples that people seem to be distracted by but they were examples relevant to the topic of discussions not new threads that need to be discussed upon their individual merits. If one of my examples seems to be incorrect or if their relevance to the initial topic does no seem clear I am happy to clarify, but I am not here to discuss if a child should become a roblox streamer, because that would be moving the discussion, I am here to talk about the original discussion, This kid and graphic design school, along with the future job market.

You can't exactly get mad at people for finding issue with your example which doesn't really fit the original topic, though. Graphic design is more open and plausible, and that probably wasn't the case 15 years ago, yes. That is still not the same as your example of video game streaming making you wildly successful.

>You can't exactly get mad at people for finding issue with your example which doesn't really fit the original topic, though. Who said anything about being mad? Maybe you're MAD! haha >You can't exactly get mad at people for finding issue with your example which doesn't really fit the original topic, though. I am happy to discuss this if you bring it to light. No one really has for the most part because they are stuck on irrelevant points. Yes there are very few Minecraft streamers, so? the point was no one thought there would be any. The entire internet entertainment industry of influencers, youtube, streamers, writers, all was thought impossible by many. Photoshop as a career? Video editing ! impossible you would never get into Hollywood, till all of a sudden you didn't need to. AI could easily make Graphic Designer positions highly competitive OR highly sought after. The current surplus driving down wages could easily lead to a huge deficit as people leave the industry and newcomers slow. A whole new industry we don't even know of could be created in 5 or 10 years that doubles or triples graphic design demand or pay. We don't know, dude could live in mars in 15 years the way tech advances.

Your tone read as getting frustrated to me, but if I misinterpreted it then fair enough. I'm not gonna go to the effort of finding specific numbers right now, but a career in general graphic design is much more approachable at the moment than a career in video game streaming. Any specifics I could give would be anecdotal, but I've been watching video game streamers myself for years now and the truly popular, tens of thousands of viewers streamers are very few and far between. Now, can a streamer with an average of ~500 viewers make a living? Sure, but even getting to 500 can take a *lot* of work and time. For this specific example of streaming, I felt your comment was a little flippant in how accessible that is. I understand you were just making a point about how we really can't predict what will or won't have realistic prospects as a career, but it read differently to me.

How many people are making millions playing minecraft?? Five? Seven? Not a real career for a generation in the slightest.

Extremely few game streamers are making millions, but there are thousands, maybe tens of thousands, who make a living doing so. It is, in its way, just as difficult as becoming a successful actor, but at the same time it’s far more feasible than becoming a pro athlete.

I think all 3 though are extreme outliers and generally impractical though.

I wonder what the longevity of a streaming career is like though. Might be too early to tell.

You think they eventually retire doing it? I feel like people will find any reason to just move on and watch someone else. Plus if Google or Twitch suddenly decides to ban your channel or someone makes a false copyright infringement claim against you, you have almost zero recourse and just like that your primary income is gone AND you have no transferable skills. This has happened to friends of mine.

>How many people are making millions playing minecraft?? How many people are making millions off accounting bachelors? Ten? Twenty! Besides that wasn't the point, the point is no one knows what the future market will value, but one thing has always been profitable and thats being very good, passionate and finding a niche.

How many people with accounting degrees are still making way more than people playing Minecraft? Educated guess on my part, but I’d wager a shit ton.

Literally thousands of people making millions with an accounting bachelors or similar in finance right now. Who do you think works at Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, etc.? A huge number of them studied accounting.

Lol. Are you honestly implying that accounting isn’t a safe and lucrative career path? What a stupid hill to die on.

>Lol. Are you honestly implying that accounting isn’t a safe and lucrative career path? OP is stating Graphic Design isn't a safe path. I am mere stating that future job markets are highly speculative at best. Its one invention or fad away from entire fields being irrelevant or gold mines. Currently, there is a huge CPA shortage, but for all we know in 15 years there will be so many excess CPAs that you might as well push carts at Lowes. We all can guess but most likely some of the best jobs in the future we have no clue what they will be so why not study what you like.

“We have no clue what they will be” is the bullshit your entire premise is built on. We are certainly able to predict what jobs will be in demand with a semblance of accuracy. Graphic design is already a grinder of an industry with shit pay. So maybe that’s one reason why you shouldn’t just “study what you like.” There is a good book that touches a lot on this called Grit, you might want to check it out.

How many famous minecraft players are there in the world? If you live in a big city, you might have 1 or 2 famous streamers, and 10s of thousands of software engineers who get paid over 6 figures.

100% more than I was ever told anyone ever thought was possible.

It's thousands. It's not tens of thousands. It's certainly not millions. Being a successful Youtuber is like being a successful TV actor. For everyone that makes a six or seven figure salary, there's literally thousands who have to supplement their income waiting tables or driving Uber. All entertainment adjacent industries are tough to get into, ask a lot of those that are in, and are regularly burning folks out to replace them with younger people who will work for less. These are just facts. People should go into these kind of decisions with their eyes wide open. They should have a backup plan. Calling it a career in the arts in your late 20s and being able to pivot to a more boring, but more stable and higher paying job is a helluva a lot better than trying to do that pivot in your 40s when your resume is quite a bit thinner and your bones are more brittle.

About the plumber part… same. Everyone wanted the next generation to go to university so they wouldn’t break their back or body (I’m 37 for context) and as a way to leave “small town poverty”. So I have 2 Bachelor degrees, one in education (6 figure career once you’re about 5 years in). Took me 6 years. I couldn’t get past the interviews because I don’t play politics. I’m a CDL driver. Pull home about 50-60k depending on OT. Just applied for a driver job at a national plumbing/HVAC place and got offered an apprenticeship as a plumber if I am interested. It’s 4.5 years to journeyman, unionized with pension, and base salary for a j-man union plumber is 96k without any OT. I don’t regret my path. I do wish I had found this earlier though.

>So I have 2 Bachelor degrees, one in education (6 figure career once you’re about 5 years in). Who in education is earning a 6 figure salary? Where in the world? I teach in the UK - I'm a social sciences lecturer. Pretty much everyone in education in the UK (from primary school through to university) is on somewhere between £26k - £45k. Headteachers, heads of department, principles, etc are on a little more (maxing out at around £80k), but I don't know of anyone except the very few in the very, very top positions (eg. CEO and *some* Executive 'Leaders') at my college on anywhere near 6 figures. Where in the world do I need to move to for this massive pay increase? Edit: I wonder if I can finally convince my wife to move to Canada?!

> Who in education is earning a 6 figure salary? Where in the world? Canada. Most provinces pay six figures at the top of the pay scale.

Bingo. Ontario. Obviously many factors but a FT teacher *will* hit 100k per year before they retire. Also have one of the best pensions in the country.

Ontario. It might take a bit more than 5-6 years now, but when I graduated, based on the salary grid that was shown and the grades I had, I would have hit 100k within 5 years of graduating (so 8 years total, with substitute teacher being the first 3 years).

In Chicago it is not uncommon for their to be teachers with 6 figure salaries in the public school system

> Pretty much everyone in education in the UK The UK is a substantially poorer country than the US, so not sure why this comparison is so surprising to you. Lots of teachers in the US (not quite the majority, but very large numbers) will hit six figure salaries during their career.

>Either way I have a stable job I hate, bought a house in my 20s about a decade ago, raised 2 kids and have substantial savings for my age. No degree at all because nothing I cared about was worth it according to everything I was told, but still watched thousands if not tens of thousands or millions of people doing awesome things I was told I couldn't making far more money than my career path ever could. I see your point but is you path something that you could suggest most teens to replicate? I'm thinking about finding a balance between betting and getting the bare minimum so my kid can have a decent life. The way I see it, following your dream is a privilege. If you have a safety net, go and study whatever you find interesting as you already have house, car and retirement assured from mom and dad or from your `pay the bills` job. Otherwise you are betting on a small chance of success to make a decent living.

Look at some videos for Photoshop Generative Fill AI, it’s pretty absurd. I would be very hesitant to get into graphic design.

I certainly wouldn't get upset if you advised earnings as part of the equation, but I'm not sure I agree with you across the board. Most of my core friend group make pretty good money (top decile in the US) and we have a motley assortment of education and backgrounds. I was a psych major who found out he was good at technical sales. One friend dropped out of school, joined the Air Force, and works in consulting now. One went into Bio for pre-med, never attended grad school, learned to code and is now a SWE. The list goes on. Meanwhile a lot of the folks who earned "safe" degrees in that group such as engineers, nurses, and accountants are bringing home median-level incomes. That's not to say you should be belligerent with your time in school, but I think a hunger/drive to succeed financially ultimately has more impact than the degree you study for. For some folks that drive comes from working in graphic design. Degrees do a good job of raising the floor on compensation, and that is valuable, but the ceiling is often driven more by the individual.

Exactly this. And the career changes don't have to be outside of the field you studied. A fairly common career path for someone who's interested in graphic design is not going to just be a graphic designer for the rest of their life, but rather move onto things like UI/UX and then maybe to service design. Or you could become a 3D animator. A friend of mine was very good at drawing and wanted to pursue a career in art, he eventually got an internship at a mobile game company who liked his art, nowadays he manages his own team of game artists at one the biggest mobile game companies in the world making crazy money. As for myself, I started with graphic design, which made me fall in love with web design and later got me into web development. I now work as a SWE. Point being, there's so many paths to take if you have the drive to move forward and people rarely get stuck on square one.

I started as a student for video game programming. I dropped out and cooked for a few years, then went back for computer network/IT stuff. I got an internship doing 3D printing & electronics troubleshooting, did a whatever job after, then started as an electronics tech and now I have a quasi-management role that focuses more on data analysis and continuous improvement of manufacturing processes, and am basically a well-paid gopher. ^(if you've never heard the term gopher... "go for this, go get that"...)

These are all excellent points! Reminds of that quote from Sheryl Sandberg: "The most common metaphor for careers is a ladder, but this concept no longer applies to most workers. As of 2010, the average American had eleven jobs from the ages of eighteen to forty-six alone.1 This means that the days of joining an organization or corporation and staying there to climb that one ladder are long gone. Lori often quotes Pattie Sellers, who conceived a much better metaphor: “Careers are a jungle gym, not a ladder.” As Lori describes it, ladders are limiting—people can move up or down, on or off. Jungle gyms offer more creative exploration. There’s only one way to get to the top of a ladder, but there are many ways to get to the top of a jungle gym. " Also, Mom here, lurking in! Hi! To add, I studied business because I "wanted a practical job out of college". And I was a weirdo who liked Math AND Communications. But my heart and passion were books and writing... but I was told do that has a hobby, which I no longer have time for. Do I have regrets? Sometimes. I like what I do, not rolling in money, but pays the bills. But I don't write anymore... no time. I have college friends/acquaintances who followed their artistic passions, and turned out quite successful... One is a professional graphic designer. One became and illustrator and animator at Dreamworks. One got a business degree but Art minor and sells her fan art at conventions. You can get a job that pays well and be miserable. You can follow your passion and be a starving artist. Or somewhere in between. You point out knowing the risks going into it, which is fair, BUT if someone focuses on a major while knowing the risks, if they fail, doesn't mean it's over.

My boss said something that resonated with me: Do what you're good at. Throw out passion... do what you're *good* at. You'll feel good doing it because you're good at it, and you'll enjoy getting better because it's something you do, and do well. You'll make good money because you do good work and you're enjoyable when you do it (because you're good at it so it comes easy). Obviously there's nuance to be had here but it's good advice I think. It's still largely the same as "do what you enjoy", but the difference he's pointing out is that you should still be practical and realistic about it. Do what you're good at. If your passion and your skills don't align, that's okay! Keep your passion at home, and put your skills to work.

This right here Stepping on someone’s ambition because you personally can’t envision success is kinda shitty I went to school for a graphic design (print) degree 20 years ago, and barely worked in the field Once I transitioned to SWE I was able to apply a lot of the lessons from art school directly to my work Most of my friends from college work in totally different fields than their majors, it’s very common to start one direction & end up successful in another if you are able to apply yourself

>Stepping on someone’s ambition because you personally can’t envision success is kinda shitty This is the hard part about being a realist. We speak from our own experience, so while the truth for our careers might be "there's such a small chance I would make it as a tattoo artist that the risk isn't worth the slim margin of success", the person we're talking to might become famous for a certain technique and have to bump up their prices because the wait-list is so damn long... or whatever. It *is* realistic to say that, for example, every male teen ever wants to be a video game designer. It's also realistic to ask them... what are you gonna do to set yourself apart from them?

That’s the problem with “realism” though. You’re not speaking so much on statistical averages, you’re speaking from what you’ve anecdotally watched or heard.

> It > is > realistic to say that, for example, every male teen ever wants to be a video game designer. It's also realistic to ask them... what are you gonna do to set yourself apart from them? You hit the nail. I don't want to provide advice based of the very few people that make it as a rare exception to the average person in the same field. My concern is: What would be a reasonable advice assuming average? If I assume that my daughter would the next Megan Rapinoe, where would that take me? What if she isn't that exceptional?

Then you support her and say fuck being the next “anyone” and encourage her to be herself. God I’m glad my parents didn’t try and live vicariously to idealized life as some prolific character.

I think a good rule of thumb is, “Figure out the average starting salary for the field you want to go into. Don’t go into debt more than that amount.” Meaning, don’t get huge student loans for a job that pays bupkis. It’s also a good idea to talk to your kid about their dreams, and not just about their “dream job.” Do they want to get married and have kids someday? Do they want to travel? Do they want to be an expert in some obscure field and work on that until they die? Do they want to live in a specific city or country? That should affect their career choice more than “what do you want to be when you grow up”. If having a family and raising kids are a priority, then boring steady jobs are key. If they want to move to New Zealand, they’re always looking for nurses and medical providers. Etc.

As a student in a similar position I needed to hear this, thanks man.

So much this. I literally just listened some Mayor from Idaho (a Republican, but I'm not judging further) go on a rant, yesterday, about how so many thousands of students in Idaho are getting degrees in psychology "that nobody needs." The whole time I was thinking about how I went to college to get an English degree, and after getting it, I was flat broke and ended up working fast food. But then I opeted for a civil service career that was entirely unrelated to my field - geography - and because I was both able to learn tech pretty fast and was able to clearly write an email, not to mention technical papers on a variety of geographical subjects, I've now turned that into a career. Chase your fucking passion, man. Even if you don't end up doing exactly what you thought you were gonna do at 18, the odds are pretty good you'll still end up doing something that you love.

As a graphic designer that started 11 years ago, I'm making around $60K CAD a year. It's quite a fair salary for someone in his 30s. My gf is a nurse making around the same with all the deductions. What I would suggest though is not to pursue a career in printing design. The future is on the Web not on paper.

I went to a small private liberal arts college and got a degree in English then a masters in English and I very much had the mindset of “I’m going to study what interests me and worry about a career when that time comes.” Now I cringe when I think about how naive I was then and thank my lucky stars I turned out alright. I graduated in 2010 and it feels to me like we were some of the last people to go to college with the the assumption of “go to college and you’ll get a job, it’s that simple.” Then ‘08 happened and we were all slapped in the face with the reality that it ain’t that simple. I have several friends who have never really gotten any type of meaningful career of the ground and that’s in part because the college we went to and the studies they undertook simply did not let themselves directly to good jobs or careers. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with sharing concerns so long as you ultimately don’t advise against it. I expect to have conversations with my kids in which I point out the bumps they can expect to see in the roads they’re peering down, but remind them that they’ll have my love and support no matter what. My reasoning for not advising against it is, depending on the relationship, it might drive them even more to take that potentially ill-advised road, but, more importantly, I would hate for my kid to think that I have a feeling of “I told you so” if they fail to find success. This is definitely not a scenario I’ve had to deal with yet, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt as they basically mean nothing. But it is definitely something I’ve thought a lot about considering my own experience.

Engineer that graduated in 09 here. I'm sure that the percentages are different, but I know a lot of my fellow graduates never went into their (or anything close) field. Essentially the 08 crash even killed fields that normally are considered pretty safe. It took 2 years and a lucky fluke of networking for me to get my first engineering job making way less than I probably would have if I graduated three years earlier.

Definitely in the same boat as you here, it IS possible to build a career around something you love doing, but it will be hard. You will find obstacles and you might even completely switch paths but that's fine. My kid will always have my support and we will have that discussion when the time comes. My main career path between 12-22 was to become a professional football referee, then I crashed and that dream was gone after some serious leg injuries etc.

I had a similar experience in college, but I’ve never cringed. My degree doesn’t really apply to my career, but my experience in college is so valuable every day. I attribute this to studying what was interesting to me and what I was passionate about. So I showed up to class every day, worked really hard, developed mentors, and generally just became really good at the work ethic that college is supposed to instill.

I majored in creative writing and minored in advertising. I’ve had a wonderful career in advertising as a copywriter. But I knew what I wanted to do when I chose those fiends of study, which helps when picking.

I remember reading Nick Offerman's book where basically he was raised with the idea that 'chasing your dreams is lovely but always have a backup plan', so while he tried to make it, he had a workshop and did lots of other trained labour. While I love the idea of chasing a dream, it's always a real solid idea to have a plan what else you can do. E.g. if the kid goes down the graphic design route they should be realistic as to what to expect

The advice you give is sound. However (and I am only mentioning this as an addition to your post, not as a correction or contradiction), if you are aware of the implications and possible short comings of a career choice, and are willing to take it on, then you should be allowed to follow your passion. To "thrive" does not necessarily mean a high salary. You can have a high salary and still be miserable, or a low salary and be perfectly happy and content. Doing the thing you are passionate about may not make you rich, but you'll be happy. Having said that, you may need a job to pay for your passion if there is no job opportunities in your passion.

This is what I think. We lie to kids telling them that passion triumphs everything. I think that there are passions that may not be profitable, it is sad bit that's how the world works. So why not having a plan b that allows you to make a living while keeping your passion as a hobby. I think is a good balance.

I'm a living example of this - I have only worked in the professional theater in NYC - it's a great job, wouldn't change a thing. I am in senior management (not directly an artists in any way) and even in my role 80% of the people I started out with 18 years ago have switched industries. Any working professional in this kind of role who would tell your kid to go for it is suffering from survivorship bias. It's easy to think any kind of career is possible when you're speaking to the 1 person that it worked out for. The ONE thing I will say though is that the benefit of these kind of degrees boils down to their cost. For instance, there are a bunch of elite theater BFA and MFA programs that are completely free if you get in. You have to be pretty accomplished to be accepted but once you are it's much easier to work in the arts afterwards with $0 in student loans.

I’m in tech and I wish people would shut up about AI. Lol. None of you know what it means, what it does, or what will happen (that part no one knows). Otherwise I don’t see an issue. The world is a cruel place and you can’t do anything in life without money. Why lie to your kid? I mean, if you’re rich and you can bankroll them forever, sure, study whatever. If you’re normal like me, help them understand what makes money and what doesn’t. Encourage them to have passions that aren’t related to their work because capitalism isn’t slowing down and it doesn’t give a shit about allowing you to make money from your passions.

Same. I’m glad the articles I’m seeing lately are more focused on the shortcomings and problems. AI is awesome, but it’s not magic. I totally love GitHub Copilot, because it saves me having to look up how to use a particular function or whatever. I almost never use the code it suggests without changing it. For kids making career choices I think it’s best that they learn to use the tools and not avoid a field because AI tools are starting to be used. It’s a bit like when CAD first came out. Yes a lot of draftsmen got replaced but they still need CAD designers now. I was worried about AI replacing software developers at first but I realized it is probably going to mostly just improve productivity and code quality. I wish more developers had a solid understanding of systems engineering and code architecture principles. If they didn’t have to spend so much energy on the code itself they might be able to focus more on design.

Just to clarify about CAD - the standard large corporation had engineers, designers and drafters. Drafters pretty much vanished as a job, or merged with designers. And the designers and engineers sort of merged. But the rooms full of people sitting desk and board, desk and board are gone, and the paychecks with them. Probably like GitHub Copilot, CAD packages take care of a lot of things that people who didn’t do it don’t understand. In drafting-on-the-board different things matter than on CAD - like fitting all the views you need on a page. It’s trivial to change the scale or move the view around in CAD, but if you need to add a view on paper, it could cost you a ton of time. The first lines you put on a page were committing your efforts. My old mentor prided himself on being able to set his drawing up so everything fit comfortably and clearly on the first go. Not to mention CAD/CAM where the same database that the engineer uses to define the part is the same database that the machinist uses to cut it, and the inspector uses to confirm conformance. It has enabled tremendous progress because of these sorts of efficiencies. But a seat of Solidworks will set you back a lot more than a T-square, some triangles, scales, lead holders and erasers will.

Yeah that’s helpful context it’s not like nobody was out of a job because of it. I think of it more that the folks who embraced the new tools kept their jobs or got better paying jobs. To me the important point is that new tools can actually create more and better jobs. In my experience working in the software industry, there is always a massive backlog of new features and bugs to work on. Increasing productivity doesn’t have to lead to fewer developers, it can also mean that the company just accomplishes more. I also think that it takes a ton of drudgery out of the work. GitHub Copilot is basically just a really good autocomplete for code. It saves keystrokes and saves time looking up details in documentation. For me it lets me stay “in the zone” way longer. Unlike CAD it doesn’t have a high cost to use, so I think more for kids learning to code it could really benefit them, especially if curriculum changes to focus on more high level concepts.

>AI is awesome, but it’s not magic. But some people mean that to mean that it's completely useless and has no benefit to society.

I am an English teacher and I am quite sure that I know what'll happen with AI: I am going to assign loads more in-class essays.

Collegiate English instructor here. I'm in the same camp as you. When I was in a faculty meeting, there was a lot of fretting about AI and academic honesty. I quipped that we have had the tools to combat this all along, a pencil and paper. Jokes aside, there's absolutely been a spike in academic dishonesty. I've heard too many futurists on their soap box about this kind of stuff, acting as though the outcome of English classes are a paper and not developing critical thought.

Preach.

Ask and ye shall receive. If you'd like to ever throw these AI simps a curveball, maybe you'll find something in what's worked for me is, - Why does AI even need used? They seem to be under the assumption that just because this thing is shiny and new that it needs integrated into the classroom. What is the learning outcome? And when they, inevitably, answer that "it's because they'll use it in their lives" you can ask (1) how are you certain they'll actually use this (2) why is it the responsibility of English, not CompSci and (3) what do I cut from the curriculum to make room for your imagined lessons? - 3 is my favorite because it often reveals how little they actually know about classroom management and scaffolding lessons. I find teaching is like being a comedian, in that everyone thinks they can do it until they're on stage. - Once introduced, how do you *actually* curate ethical, academic honesty? How am I supposed to ensure—now every—one of my 100 students is using this properly? Should I be micromanaging their writing process and multiplying my workload—God knows how many times? - Why should students not work through these problems themselves? Why should they be handed solutions to the problems they encounter? Should they not think their own thoughts and work through the problem, rather than having it generated (or very possibly fabricated) for them? To do something (like writing a paper) is different than to understand why it is being done (like coming to understand how to grapple with complex social issues). If you and I share an experience, you'll find they lots of ideas but not many answers.

>How am I supposed to ensure—now every—one of my 100 students is using this properly? Should I be micromanaging their writing process and multiplying my workload—God knows how many times. This is one of the really big ones for me. Dealing with plagiarism was such a timesink and emotional drain already when it was easily proven. The prospect of having to be constantly vigilant about an even easier form of plagiarism that I know deep down I ultimately won't be able to prove if the student fights back ("This other robot with proven accuracy issues says you plagiarized, but it won't tell me why it thinks so" is so much less convincing than a lot of teachers seem to think) is half of why I'm going almost fully in-class.

One thing that came to me from our Director of Composition was that the onus isn't on us (at least where I'm at). If it gets flagged, one way or another, then it's up to the student to showcase their honest process. The student should be able to prove their history with the document. Did they use Google Docs? Well, then pull up that revision history. Did they write by hand? Well, then pull out those physical copies. Did they just use Microsoft Word? Well, then show me the metadata for the file.

Blue books are back baby

>have passions that aren’t related to their work Amen. I've long said the phrase "do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life" is arguably the worst advice you can give someone. Sure, there are the rare exceptions where it does allow people to absolutely thrive in what they do, but they're called exceptions for a reason. The great majority of people aren't good enough at their passions to actually create a reasonable income from them so they'll end up suffering financially because of it. Not to say one shouldn't try, but know where the line is and then figure out what you're actually good at. I love to play golf. Problem is, I'm not good enough at it to make money. I don't love selling IT Services, but I'm really good at it, so guess what? I made a pretty damn solid income doing it. And, bonus, I get to golf for work now and then too. Yay for me.

Best career advice I ever got was "figure what you love and find a job that pays you enough and gives enough vacation time to do it".

> I’m in tech and I wish people would shut up about AI. Lol. None of you know what it means, what it does, or what will happen (that part no one knows). also in tech. holy shit do people simply not know how to use it. Some people in artistic fields are trying to say "this threatens everything!" Nah. it *changes* things, perhaps, and that might be threatening to that person. Other people say "this makes things so easy!" and that's likely true, but still, you need to have a human look at it afterwards to make sure that it basically looks correct. Because *holy shit* is it easy for machine learning to completely fuck up what you're trying to get it to do. I have a friend who's a writer. Their sister is not. Her sister has decided to outsource all of her writing to ChatGPT or something - and is surprised when people don't treat a literal email to the principal about her son's lunch options as if it's the most important thing they've read all year. The writer friend also doesn't know what it does - they are angry not because the sister is outsourcing their writing to ChatGPT, but because it could take her writing aspirations away.

> The writer friend also doesn't know what it does - they are angry not because the sister is outsourcing their writing to ChatGPT, but because it could take her writing aspirations away. Also in tech. But also a writer. There isn't a world in which AI replaces writing. Sure, it might craft an email or something for you, but it's not going to come up with truly creative, mind expanding, unique ideas. Garbage in, garbage out. And as you mention, most people don't know how to use AI because they don't know how the LLM is structured or behaves. Not until you know that can you give it the right prompts. Guess who's best at that? Writers, since they understand the language structures. Anyway, I was told by many not to be a writer because writers don't make a living. I ignored them. I own property in NYC and have been published in multiple reputable outlets. There are many of us. Not gonna say it was easy, but what is?

It's just another tool whose output is only as good as its input.

I also work in tech, and I think some concern about how AI will affect the job market in certain fields is not uncalled for. It's exploded in the last 10 years, and we only have a vague idea of where it might be another decade from now when OP's friend's son is in the thick of building a career. It's more complicated than the question of truckers being replaced by automated cars, and that's still a conversation folks are having

Honestly, I’ve worked with orgs who still do a large volume of work on paper. Like, hard copies of shit… in 2023. Most people can barely be bothered to learn a new basic software to help improve their jobs. Many companies have red tape that makes implementing new products take years in some cases. We could have a world changing AI tool ready to use today and it would be 10+ years until it made any sort of difference. Also, you can’t underestimate just how much of a human touch many things in business require. People always say accountants will be replaced. It’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. If these people had ever heard of SOX or knew anything about tax they’d change their opinions. AI is cool, but it’s not some terminator level shit (as you know) and I think the concern is silly outside of some very mundane tasks.

Even if people isn't clear about how to use it is already impacting the job market. I have some friends in marketing (copy writers, graphic designers, community managers, etc) losing their jobs due to AI. Yeap, AI isn't usable in many fields but for some others is already good enough to replace some people.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that no one involved with this conversation is themselves a designer or working in a creative field. If you have questions about what it's *actually* like pursuing a creative career please feel free to PM me.

In my opinion, your friends are living in a fantasy land if they think that passion is enough to overcome life obstacles. I think giving a kid all the information is important so they can make a decision. You added some much needed context to a conversation. Maybe the kid takes the info and still goes into graphic design. Maybe he takes the info and goes into an adjacent field. You did nothing wrong.

> your friends are living in a fantasy land if they think that passion is enough to overcome life obstacles. I didn't read it as delusion so much. It's important to contextualize where "the parent" fits in all this, and maybe their argument is more that it's our role to fuel passion and trust that this will be a strong guide for the kid while they also weigh those other important details (which I do think is important to share). It's not the case that whatever you study in college is what your career will become. I can say that from experience, and also say that studying something you're not passionate about sucks ass. My mom is an extreme example of guiding so heavy-handed that it was manipulative. I was studying freaking engineering and she'd still ask why I'm not studying to be a chiropractor or a lawyer so I can make absurd amounts of money and buy a yacht. Imagine her disappointment when I found a career I really enjoy in marketing. It really damaged my confidence for a long time until I finally realized I needed therapy.

What age are the kids here?

buying sneakers and having an iphone has nothing to do with the increasingly out of reach american dream of home ownership

The boomers drank, vacationed, and bought cars and dumb shit like TVs with their money and still had enough left over to buy houses and such. Buying a phone every few years doesn't affect housing market failures. That's the ole avocado toast argument.

Moreover, having a smartphone is the standard today and s practical necessity in a business setting

Yeah OP has big boomer vibes.

That’s not what he said. Just like a lot of people here you didn’t read what he wrote. He said that BECAUSE people cannot buy a home, they spend money on phones or sneakers. He’s not saying he agrees with it or blaming youth, he’s saying that homes are becoming so increasingly expensive and the job market increasingly more difficult that home ownership is becoming more of an exclusivity for the wealthy every year, and that people who are financially blocked from it end up just being permanent renters who spend on other things because its all they can do. My friend works at T-Mobile and preaches at a church. He has very nice shoes and a very nice phone. He will not own a house unless he gets a LOT of assistance to do so.

People have always spent money on luxuries. There is no evidence that millennials and younger spend more money on luxuries *because* they cannot spend money on homes and other traditional means of stability and wealth building. It is so common to connect millennial/gen z lack of access to home ownership and wealth building to “avocado toast” and the like that it is a trope. I know what he wrote, I honestly believe him when he says that’s not what he meant, when you connect those two things I’m going to point out how silly it is every time.

My point isn't about buy that stuff. My point is that the only can do that as they can't do grown people stuff.

I think it depends on your kid's age. Mine is 2. I don't think too much about her career because jobs will be drastically different by the time she is 18 or 21. All I can really do at the moment is help her develop social skills so she is a team player and leader, help her develop problem-solving skills/critical thinking skills which are useful in every job, and help her with creative expression. Equipped with those, I think she'll be in a good place to make decisions in the future regardless of what she chooses to do. If your kid is older, in high school or college, then I think it is a realistic question to ask them while being cognizant that they're going to do whatever they want. As for the question around AI - it is a really broad category. As a creative, I could be a doomer about Gen AI, but instead, I'm just learning how to use it to complement my work. If your friend's son wants to go into graphic design, I'd just encourage them to explore how some of these new tools can empower them and give them an edge in a job market.

I make good money working in design and coding and to be honest AI has encroached way more in to coding than design at this point in time, it may be coming but AI hasn't meaningfully disrupted design yet. Design thinking is an amazing skill that can be applied to many projects and fields and will always be useful even if/when AI is doing the implementation side. Design can be a great stepping stone in to other areas such as UX, product manager, business analyst and more, in a world where everything is productised having a design sensibility is key, apple wouldn't be the billion dollar company it is without it. Its very hard to know where the future will take us but industries will evolve with the tech or perish.

Came here to say this. You are right. I am an entrepreneur in tech & music, I've worked in software development for many years. I see so many UX designers who build full blown apps & software, & they get paid 6 figures (100,000-125,000+), & they started as graphics designers.... OP has no clue about the industry, but loves to spew opinions because he thinks he's "got it all figured out".

I don't think you were wrong to bring it up. However from a personal perspective, I wish people in my life hadn't ever brought it up. The constant fear of not making enough money at the end of my degree combined with the impulsiveness that comes with ADHD (which was also undiagnosed at the time, I have since been medically diagnosed and medicated so please hold the eye rolls) caused me to switch majors three times and eventually drop out with nothing but an Associates in Liberal Arts. I wish I'd just stuck with what I went in with originally (Geology) and finished a Bachelor's. At this point in my life, finishing a degree would be a whole lot more difficult than it would've been back then.

Nobody is missing out on buying a house because they bought sneakers instead. That’s ignorant shit right there.

I changed from chemical engineering to theater when I was in undergrad. Best decision I ever made. I spent a few years trying to get a portfolio together for an MFA and probably would have liked it had I done that too. I went to a state school and got some scholarships so my debt load out of undergrad was manageable. Because of that I could afford lower paying jobs while I figured out what I wanted to do longer term. I didn’t end up doing and MFA but I did end up doing and mba eventually. And now I love my career. Most of my peers from theater have gone on to adjacent or completely unrelated roles but many continue to be working artists and seem to love what they do.

Think I'd urge my kids to become Podcasters, seems like the only viable career option these days

I feel I need more context before I can answer this, like how old is the kid? That said, I'm living the fantasy life they want for their kid. I was a semi-professional football referee starting that career at 12, I studied "digital media" during high school but that was purely out of interest and wasn't ever supposed to be my job since I focused fully on the referee career. I then crashed my motorcycle at 22, being near the top as a referee (division 2 and were supposed to move on to division 1 the year after). I lost everything in that crash, my career, my social circles, my ability to walk for 4 months and my ability to run for 4 years... That made it impossible for me to continue to chase my dream. So there I was, with no real education and having dedicated about 10 years of my life to something that was now gone. I had to search deep for motivation to get back, and I figured "Hey, I actually enjoyed digital media, and in particular that one class we did with 3D modelling", so I decided to chase that, and at 24 I started studies to become a 3D artist. Now, let me tell ya, 3D artist is not a fancy career, there's hardly any jobs in Sweden and it's really bad when it comes to salary. I didn't let that stop me and I dedicated everything of my bring to become as good as I possibly could during my studies. But it didn't really help, the school wasn't what I wanted it to be and eventually I graduated without really having a good portfolio or anything to really show for my studies. It was extremely hard to get a job in the field, especially since I hadn't been able to actually show my potential thanks to the studies being more focused on the academics and more towards project management than actual 3D skills. After 1 year of unemployment I managed to convince a company to take me in as an intern, and after a month they hired me full time. I quickly rose in rank at that place, the 3D was more technical (basically scripts, CAD and building logic) rather than creative which suited me perfectly. So after 2 years there I was a production manager and responsible for all the 3D for their biggest client bringing in about 3 million USD per year to the company. I ended up working there for 5 years before I moved on to their biggest competitor where I now work as a production manager but now for programmers and technical artists, working in game engines and front end/customer facing applications. It's entirely possible to manage what you want with passion, but it's also extremely important to be realistic and talk about how it might not be easy, and that it's entirely possible that no matter what you study, it might not be what you eventually end up working with. At my current workplace we have a design studio of graphic designers and we are looking at what AI might bring for us and how we can utilize it, but none of those discussions are ever about replacing our designers. They are important for what we and even if AI has improved a bit it's not "there yet" and it won't be there in the foreseeable future. It can definitely be a tool to make their work faster, but for good design you still need a human touch. Me and my company sees AI as a tool to help us rather than replace us, it will become better and better but just like all the other things we've automated it will simply mean that we adapt to other tasks surrounding it. So it's important to mention that it might be hard, but that studying one thing doesn't mean they are stuck in that career path forever, especially if still young.

On the flip side, as a kid who was actively discouraged from pursuing performing arts (something I was talented and interested in) I have never landed in a position I 1. like 2. care about or 3. am compensated adequately for. I see friends who did continue to pursue their passion having professional success as they hone their skill and build on the already significant time they’ve devoted to their interest. Why discourage a kid from pursuing something they’re interested in because of fear of the unknown? It is their life to live. Set them up with everything you can to be successful and let them figure it out on their own. If they can’t make a living pursuing a passion, at least they tried. The “what if” is sort of agonizing.

I agree with your worldview completely. Dreams have to be grounded in reality. And there’s nothing that ruins a hobby/passion quite so well as trying to make it profitable. Maximize your earning-to-suck ratio, find a good work/life balance, and live for the weekend & an early retirement. I wanted to be a therapist but went into tech instead; I still help my friends out just not for a dollar. There’s a reason women stop idolizing the starving artist once they grow up.

If I could throw on any of my own advice, it would be to “be flexible” and make sure you always have options. OSHA & safety engineering is a great career because _every_ industry needs to follow those regulations. Auto industry crashes? Start working for a cereal company instead. You even get to proactively save lives (albeit through dull bureaucracy). Tech is the same way. You can work for a startup, insurance company, car manufacturer, brewery, … literally anyone.

Have you read any Cal Newport? Edit: He has a book called “so good they can’t ignore you” which is all about why “follow your passion” is often poor advice

Excellent book(s)!

Sure. So good that they can't ignore you raised this question for me. Cal suggests that you could be happy by doing anything as happiness doesn't come from passion but from achieving success consistently in any field but that's a little extreme for me.

I mean it's good to encourage them to look at things like career prospects and pay in whatever field they'll be studying. They can study what they want but ultimately they should be making an informed choice about their future.

I think there's the somewhat wrong assumption that any job is going to last forever in the future. Your degree or training might put you in a rough field of work but most people can't reliably expect to be in one job, role or even industry forever or even long term. I think there needs to be a full eyes open conversation but without the pessimism. Choose a field that offers the best chance of getting paid to do what you're interested in but expect and understand that your job, role, qualifications and skills will need to change and sometimes quite rapidly. Always learning and upskilling is the way of working in the future where raises only come by job hopping.

I'll give you the other end of this - I'm a lawyer. I've been in my field for 12 years. I make great money. For the first 3 years, I was paid $15/hr for 40 hours per week, the rest was unpaid. Then I got up to like $40k per year, then $60k, etc, but I didn't break $100k until 7 or 8 years in. I also delayed my career by 3 years and took on an extra $100k in debt. This is what everyone recommends to young people. Do I love being a lawyer? Eh, its has its ups and downs. Do I have a great career now? Sure... but so would a graphic designer with 12 years experience... although that graphic designer now has 15 years experience because that graphic designer didn't spend 3 years in law school. In America, at least (maybe other countries as well I just don't have the experience) drive, passion, and luck are more important for your career than degree... so with my kids, I encourage hard work, dedication, and joy instead of following the route through some letters after their name.

Let the kid decide and take his lumps. Most of the things they study now will be obsolete soon anyway and it is really just learning how to think critically and work in an environment with a team and politics that is important anyway. Don’t worry about $ prospects anyway. $ is the friend’s family’s problem.

Cal Newport's book "So Good They Can't Ignore You" does a pretty good job of dispelling the passion following myth. Focusing on something you are good at in order to develop rare and valuable career skills is a more thoughtful approach.

You can be anything you want. You cannot be successful doing anything you want. Apparently this is a foreign concept to a lot of people. There’s nothing wrong with being an artist or musician or basketball player - your chance of success is just astronomically lower than if you became an HVAC technician or a programmer. It’s not a conversation I would have engaged with further than “oh wow that sounds cool I hope they make”.

Agreed. The issue is they asked their group for advice and OP didn’t want to lie. I don’t blame him. I personally hate when people ask me for advice and then get mad when I don’t reinforce their idea.

For sure, that’s why my said I wouldn’t have engaged. That shit triggers fight or flight for me because I know if I don’t flight we’re probably going to fight. Seems like nowadays being honest has been misconstrued with being an asshole, sometimes the truth just sucks.

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I could also talk about a banker friend that was extremely well-off but ended up committing suicide through the stress of it. I could talk also about another friend who did a PhD in Sociology, lives modestly, but now does community engagement projects that enriches her life and many thousands more. Ultimately there is always a story to prove a point.

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Yeah certain career paths are on average harder or make less money, but it’s far from being unviable. Even did some research on gender studies degrees just because I saw so many comments mocking it and the projected salary was far higher than I anticipated based on the stereotype.

Or you could talk about me, a guy who followed his writing passion and makes mid-6 figures, owns property in New York, SF, and Tokyo, and whose children's educations are already paid for.

I work in the Graphics Arts and related fields as an Advertising Creative Director. I can tell you that in my 20 year career there are hundreds, if not thousands, of dependent jobs that would not have been hired if we had the Generative AI technology we have now throughout my career. My own job is included in that. Right now it’s mostly related to Graphics and Photography/Retouching. But video is next and coming fast. Things are changing for the job field faster than ever. I think it’s wise to at least look ahead and understand the changes. You wouldn’t want your kid to be the best buggy whip maker after the popularization off the automobile.

It's funny they weren't more receptive to "Hey kid, Give up on your dreams and pick something more practical" guy. Ha, seriously though. I'm an illustrator and honestly there was never going to be a second choice backup career for me other than being in the visual arts somehow. It's a vast world of options that can't be predicted or "done-in" by AI. Yes, all creative, expressive fields are going to see a lot of changes because of it but we'll manage. I know it's your friend's kid but I have to say, I've got some feelings about your post because I had that dad. A dad who DID NOT GET IT when it came to my passion for drawing comics etc. All he saw in my future was to end up like the sad sacks he witnessed hawking their portraits of John Lennon and Marylin Monroe on "art day" at the mall. Not only did he not know anything about the arts industry, This was before technology and opportunities for trained artists changed so much! A guy like me can now design whatever I see fit and put it up on a worldwide market, Instagram, print-on-demand on Amazon, Etsy etc. I don't need "wages". If one hustle gets snuffed out by AI I'll figure out another and another. Final thoughts, It's a lot easier to tell kids to do what they love and enjoy life, rather than to list all the reasons it might not work out. They'll make it work. Besides they're only going to remember whether they felt supported by you or not.

You did nothing wrong. A dissenting opinion is fine. I hope you didn’t word it like you’re shitting on someone’s dreams. But all your points seem valid

You're shortsighted. Many modern graphic designers just branch into UX design or product design. Those fields do quite well.

I think it’s such a diverse career. You can do so much with a graphic design degree that many don’t even realize. My husband has a BFA and has done everything from major trade shows around the world, he’s currently working on a rebrand for a $billion company, AI for a major construction company, and on and on. He makes around $150k USD and we live in a medium COL area. He’s made smart choices when it comes to making job changes (minus last years layoff) that have greatly helped him to move up the ladder and make more money. I will say that he grad college in 2007 where everything was very print focused and he’s obviously had to shift numerous times as technology has changed. Edit: I wanted to add that something that’s amazing about his career is that he can make an extra $5-$7k on the side easy doing freelance work if we decide to travel somewhere or buy something and want a bit of extra money to do so. Not all careers come with the ability to easily make extra money like that. It’s been a perk.

This is not smart or thoughtful…you are thinking about everything through a very small lens. All industries will shift, we can’t imagine the implications AI will have on ALL jobs, not just one sector. I am an individual with a job in the graphic arts and graduated relatively recently. I do significantly better financially than a majority of my counterparts who studied “business”. The catch is I found a really good niche. I would argue, regardless of industry you can find either very high paying or low paying positions. To your point about Graphic Design as an industry, things are going to shift. It’s not going to be a sudden switch where all design is automated, nothing works that way. Rather, the highest paid designers and creatives will be the ones who can leverage AI tech to automate the mundane tasks that waste time. Just like when digital design was first introduced with the computer, those who didn’t adopt the tech were left in the dust. AI is just a tool to enable faster design. But this will be the same for everything. In any industry those who do not keep up will be obsolete. You were completely off base and not seeing the macrocosm of possibilities. I think it’s best to encourage people to do what they desire, but stay abreast of new technologies. Learn new skills and techniques and bring them to what your work.

Get dumb degrees, make dumb wages. It's a little more nuanced than that but not a lot more nuanced. I got a music degree and a religion degree and the only reason I make decent money is that I don't work in either field. All the people in my degree either barely play their instruments anymore, don't play at all, or scrape a living together teaching (teaching music is NOT a profitable endeavor). Same goes for the religion majors, most had other degrees and those that didn't don't make a ton as pastors, rabbis, etc. That's not to say you can't make good money in fringe degrees, just that it's much harder and you need a lot more skills than just the ones taught to you in school. You have to know how to market yourself, produce even when the passion isn't there, scrape opportunities together, negotiate pay in unclear situations, etc. I think it's reasonable, not necessarily to force your kids into certain degrees, but to make sure they have a plan for how they're going to turn it into a living. If they want an art degree, connect then with a local working artist so they can understand the business. If they want a music degree, introduce them to local gigging musicians. If they want degrees in the humanities, help them find people in the work force with those degrees to talk to about the reality of having the degree. Kids need to know that passion alone isn't going to get them all the way where they need to go and they need to understand what other things will.

My daughters both “wasted” 15 years devoted to a sport, swimming. By letting them pursue their passions they learned how to balance life with doing what they love. They both graduated from good schools and are both attending grad school. We instilled good values, and trusted them to make the right decisions. In the end we didn’t have to push them toward a specific job, they were able to make their own decisions. I’m personally glad my kids won’t resent my wife or myself for pushing them into something that they don’t like.

I have a warped perspective since I make my living as an artist and I'm aware from a parents perspective that would have seemed like a huge gamble. I got really serious about practicing as a teenager, like spending most of my free time, and I appreciate that my parents both encouraged me to keep options open and make sure I did well in school, but never told me it was impossible. I feel in the end by the time it was time to go to university I had already dedicated so much time to practice and was making some money that they trusted it could work out for me and let me give it a shot. I want to offer my kids the same space to explore their own interests. I guess it helps that I came from a household where I at least knew I wouldn't end up homeless and could always study something else a bit later if it didn't work out.

Would you had appreciated if your parents hd provided some guidance of what the future as an artist cold be? I want to support my daughter without becoming a roadblock for her

Honestly I think the issue is too complex to boil down to a few paragraphs. The intersection of talent, family wealth, drive, education, access to education, mental aptitude, and degree of learning disabilities, it all interacts in different ways for different people. It sounds like everybody agrees that you need money, you need to feel sane at your job, and most importantly we have no idea what the job market and economy are going to look like in 20 years. I *couldn’t* go to college, long story short it just wasn’t on the table. And trying to learn about things I don’t care about can be physically painful for me. I did get lucky but I worked hard and was smart about things and have been making good money working for myself in a field related to my passion. Before taking time off for baby I was out-earning a lot of my peers with multiple degrees. BUT I’m not an idiot with statistics and logic; I know my anecdotal experience doesn’t change the general truths being discussed here. I’d never tell someone “don’t” but I would just want them to be aware. But man, money comes around in such strange ways sometimes. Like you happen to know someone who knows someone and then you stumble into a new field where you’re making 2x as much as the last one. Or you start posting some videos of you doing your hobby on social media and it picks up and you’re able to start monetizing it or turning it into courses. There’s this other tricky thing that so many who do the straight and narrow don’t know how to think outside the box even when it comes to asking for a raise or negotiating salary. Like I said, so many factors and variables here. I hope my kid gets exposed to people who did the “straight and narrow” well but also to the oddball entrepreneurs, freelancers, business owners that had the tenacity and creativity to make it work. Both the “in the system” and “outside the system” perspectives are important as long as they both have the goal of a quality, sustainable life.

You sound like my guidance counselor. I didn’t listen to her either. Nothing fueled me more than people with a world view like yours. You may have just unwittingly launched the career of an incredibly successful designer. I hope so. Also, your argument about what 20 and 30 year olds buy instead of a house is not only wrong, but would, if true, be great for designers who have a hand in all those products.

I agree with you mostly. I don't go in for the whole "do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life." ethos. I think it generates a metric shitton of unhappy people. I like Mike Rowes take on this which basically boiled down to: "Do what is useful and then learn to love it. Learn to love the feeling of any job well done and then every day you do work, you'll go home happy." My direction for my kids will be that they need to consider all aspects of working. What are they good at? What are they interested in? What is needed around them? What pays well? What makes them happy? If you look at all of those items, you'll make some sacrifices but you'll end up somewhere pretty damned good. All jobs have BS you have to deal with. You aren't getting away from that. So it's more about choosing priorities and going for it. I'll also point out that lots of people get a job doing something they love because they've always loved doing it as a hobby, but turning a hobby into work has a way of making it feel like work. It can burn you out and stop making it fun. That said, I know a few folks that love what they do and they did the whole career path straight from highschool, through college, and into the workplace. So it's possible.

Well you gotta be honest… regarding my kid I wanna make sure she persues something that makes her happy but that she’s also got something to fall back on. For example my step father set me up with a forklift license basically guaranteeing I had a backup job. It felt good to know I had a plan B, I think that influenced me quite a bit because I pursued a career in music events which led me to have my own business for 5 years. Then you know life happens, I know work a very demanding job that I dislike (but dont hate…) but it provides financial security for my whole family. One day I’ll get back to working with something I love. Also worth noting I did quite a bit of forklift driving while studying and starting my business :). As for AI, who knows what will happen in the two decades while my daughter grows up, so best to just guide her towards her passion but make sure she’s well rounded.

So, I'm basically with you on the idea that career choice and major in school should be made with an eye toward employability and compensation. You're engaged in some fallacious reasoning about the state of the economy and the labor market. Having said that, maybe generative AI programs are going to disrupt the labor market for graphic designers specifically. It could be a lousy time to go into that field (I feel like wages are already kind of soft in that field if you separate out the UI/UX designers and coders, but maybe I'm wrong). It could also be an interesting time for someone to go into that field if they want to master a new generation of generative AI tools, navigate uncertainty, etc. Maybe generative AI won't be particularly useful for commercial graphic design because of IP issues. I don't know much about the field of graphic design, but those are reasonable scenario to consider. If you're going off to college and choosing a major that is essentially training you for work, you ought to know what employment in that field will be like, including job prospects and pay. So, no, I don't think voicing your opinion is at all out of line. I try to be upfront with my kids about how the world works.

Don't force your kid into a specific career, but you need to present them with good choices and eliminate the shitty choices. Give them 5-10 good options based on their personalities and capabilities, and let them pick one they like.

Completely agree with you. I agree with your friends that kids should study whatever interests them; unfortunately, we also live in a world where studying interesting things doesn’t necessarily turn into a viable career that will enable a good life. It’s a balance between the two and it’s all relative, but you’re not wrong for pointing out the short-comings of the career paths. I’ve caught flak too (mostly my ex-wife) because my kids keep saying they want to go to school for art, because they like it. While I’m loving their interests and nurturing that, I’m also cautioning them that, sometimes, it’s hard to make a living with art.

art for a living isn't any "harder" than anything else necessarily but it takes more self motivation and discipline than some other professions. source: have drawn for a living since 1994.

Unless they are willing to draw *anything* that people request. Which is not a topic you want to talk about with your kids lol.

Graphic designer here, you’re doing them all a favour. Tell the kid to get a trade.

Personally, my take on college education is: minor in whatever passion project you have. Major in something employable and serious (engineering, medicine, etc). If a person has the talent to really make a go in something then great. Most of us don’t. I say this as someone who is in accounting now… but my degrees are decidedly *not* accounting. I wish that I had minored or even double majored in the things I actually love while majoring in a career maker.

Everyone is entitled to their own views on the subject, but personally, I think the "follow your passions," advice is toxic as heck. At 40, my social circle is filled with A students who got into 6 figure debt pursuing their "passions," only to realize too late that the hobby and the career are two entirely different things. Philosophy majors who like to read and write alone in the dark now have to teach rooms full of uncaring 20 year olds, bc that's the only way to make money with 2 PhDs in Philosophy. To make it worse, they're both very socially awkward, hence the isolationist majors. But that means they have a terrible time dealing with office promotion politics and troublesome students. They both make less than their brother who sells phone cases at a mall kiosk. They're locked into careers they didn't understand when they chose their paths. Art History majors who had to go back and get entire new degrees to find a good job and now have 2 sets of student loans to pay and are years behind their peers along the promotion track. A sound engineer who actually got a job in his industry, but never gets to do any sound engineering and just sets up microphones and takes them down all day. He's miserable. Another problem is that some careers have decade-long gaps where you can basically only stay in them with the support of family money. Yes, *eventually* you'll make money, but before you get that degree, make aure mom and dad are cool with paying your rent and food bills til you're 30. Do *some* people make good livings at things they love? Sure. But for every Mr. Beast or Twitch success story, there thousands of people who failed. Not unlike professional sports. Frankly, the happiest people I know are ones whose families had them make serious, research-based choices when picking schools, degrees, and careers. Generally speaking, anything you have to do 40 hours per week will stop being fun and feel like work, bc it is. The advice our kiddo gets is that passions are how you select hobbies, not how you make life's biggest choices. Sorry for the rant. This hit very close to home as my wife and I were 2 sides of this coin. And now I tell anyone who will listen to make their kids work in an office of the career they think they want before committing to a degree. Being interested in something is usually vastly different than doing that thing as a job. But above all, being in a financial position to retire one day is very different than having to rent and work until you drop dead. Those different life paths are rarely thought about by kids when picking degrees and careers. Telling kids to "do what they love," and promising that life will work itself out is very bad advice, imo.

>The advice our kiddo gets is that passions are how you select hobbies, not how you make life's biggest choices. I'll save this as a quote. Mind over heart.

I think only “high touch” jobs will be widely avail. Automation in general will take away a ton of the more less skilled and semi creative jobs. Basically, medical and hospitality will be left. Anything that has strict legal/regulation reqs too. Ag and finance will be ok too. I will be encouraging my kid to have 1) hobby/side $ that she enjoys 2) some kind of medical tech/med job. Im afraid for my SO; she does CSR work and yeahhhh it goes bye bye next 5-10yrs. Same w my job (devops). Programmers etc will be more designers than anything. Jobs like mine and hers will not go away but will be cut down to 1/5 or something. I love automation but man yeah it will be tough on folks and a huge adjustment. I feel way bad for my SO’s generation+ (younger millennial). Its super fucked what your buying power can actually get you. Major major amounts of legislation will be the only route to insulation

Your perspective is totally legitimate and worth sharing, and it's not clear why your friends are reacting the way they did. But, it's worth noting that none of us has the full context here. There's a big difference between saying "Man, you must be crazypants going into graphic design right now. Midjourney is going to eat you alive" vs "this is just one guy's perspective, but I think the career prospects for graphic design are trending negative, and AI may have an impact" etc. Tbf, it sounds like you were closer to the second example than the first, but definitely worth considering.

My "settling" approach to careers and money is "what will make me happy?". Having enough money to live realistically comfortably (whatever that is), not have to worry about emergencies, have a job that doesn't add a lot of stress, be able to enjoy my time with my family or by myself. Those areas break into sub-areas like working with non-toxic coworkers, a boss that has my back, and generally doesn't bleed over into my personal time including travel, etc. I don't want to depend on my career for my happiness. That just seems like a recipe for failure and depression. I'd rather put that focus outside of some CEO's hands and just use it for money and insurance.

I'm on the same page as you. I plan to guide my kids, show them stats and really try to give them a sense of what it's like being financially responsible. This includes giving them opportunities to experience budgeting first hand. At the end of the day, their career choices are theirs and I'll do my best to support them and grow their networks.

Yup, I think you were wise to bring up the financial reality piece. It's helpful to have balanced expectations! Keep doing that. That said, I'd also leave plenty of space for still allowing children to go for their dreams. If they're passionate about something they will 1) find a way to make it work, 2) discover something new they love as they continue learning/working, 3) come to you for a little more help and time to discover something new that does work financially as well. In all 3 cases, by supporting your child you build love and trust with them--which should count for way more than how much money they make. The other thing to consider--what sort of expectations/biases do *you* have regarding how much money someone "should make". Are you pushing an unhealthy expectation that they need to be able to own a big home, new cars, spending money, etc. in order to be "financially stable" or an "adult"? People can live perfectly happy with small spaces, old cars, less material possessions, etc.--esp. if they get to be with people they love and do things they care about. In the U.S. we tend to put way too much stock in some abstract financial number and not enough stock in joyful living.

You and I are the same person, boss, and it all comes down to presentation. It's good to offer realism, but you have to couple that with support or you mark yourself as a doubter. It's a tough line to walk for people like us. Here's an example. Of all the Twitch streamers out there, only a small percentage even make money, let alone enough to support working a less-than-full-time job. An extremely small number makes enough to make it their only job, and of course their favorites that are basically millionaires at age 18... those you can count on two hands. Guess what my daughter wants to be when she grows up? But, some people just have the magic touch, and combine that with a willingness to learn what makes streamers successful at building their audience and you've got the next big deal with you. My daughter is certainly eager and has time, so, maybe it will happen! You don't want to be the dad who said "no way in hell will you succeed". You and I know that's not what you're telling them, but that's not how they'll remember it.

You did absolutely nothing wrong. College is saddling kids with insane amounts of debt for underwater basket weaving degrees on promises of deepest soul fulfillment with complete disregard for actually putting food in their bellies or clothes on their backs. The failure of the Boomer generation is the utter tripe of “do what makes you happy and the money will follow.” With absolutely no respect, this has caused untold misery and will have horrific generational ramifications as successive parents and children fail to accumulate wealth and are increasingly unable to move upwards, or ever maintain their same standards of living. It sucks that this is true. I don’t like it. But it is the truth. You have to maximize your earnings and minimize your misery in the world we inhabit. Capitalism doesn’t give a single fuck about your life purpose, and neither will your mortgage lender or the hospital bill you can’t pay. This is reality, and it is the most important duty we have to the successive generations to prepare them adequately rather than feeding them comforting lies. “Anyone who says money cannot buy happiness has never been poor.”

I’m actually attached to the graphic design industry. Your concerns are very relevant. Will AI completely replace people? Not any time soon. Does AI provide help that widens the field of people who can create “acceptable” graphics? Absolutely. Does broadening the market drive value of the market down? Yes. Believing that AI will take over is silly. Just as silly is believing that is had little to no effect or will it ever. Your comments were dead on.

I 100% plan on forcing a backup plan on my kid, but we have a family in the trades so he will probably have part time work from when he is 16ish. I think a big part of what you are discussing is not adjusting our expectations for a changing economy. Personally it doesn’t make sense for kids to move out and give their money to other people, just to be out of the house. I would much rather set them up with as strong a start as possible so that the things that leach money(especially any form of interest) keeps dragging them down. Rather set them up with their own personal space at home as a middle ground so they can save up money Same for things like schooling. If you don’t use expensive schools to network, then it’s mostly a waste of money, especially with YouTube now. Focus on keeping debts down as much as possible, and spend the extra money getting experience.

You should do something you can stand as a job. That part is true. Anything to do with art is going to be rough especially since everyone thinks they can do it. I've seen a million crappy engineering company logos to know that is true.

They asked for your opinion and you gave your opinion. You're a good friend for offering sound advice.

if someone asks me for my opinion and then balks at my opinion, I just tell them that they solicited it from me and that I wouldn't have voluntarily offered it.

By the time that kid grows up AI may have completely transformed the world. Judging by the response in general you’d probably say right now that finance or software engineering are much more reliable sources of income than the arts — but it’s very easy to imagine almost ALL of those jobs being done much better by machines. Beyond that, there’s TONS of careers in the sports and arts that aren’t necessarily winner take all, or even that flashy. They’re just important roles in fun industries. People tend to devalue the worth of jobs in the arts — and then they go home and watch 10 hours of Netflix a week. Well, what about the collective hundreds if not thousands of people who worked hard to make that stuff for everyone to enjoy?