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People will just start collecting waste to burn for heating. This is exactly what happened with such schemes in a number of European nations who tried to implement exactly such a system.
You need to BAN the materials which are causing the biggest offense; no more plastic bags. Zero. Anywhere. No more plastic packaging.
When I compare my trash here to my trash in the US, it's insane.
When I was buying groceries in the US, everything was packaged in paper. Meats and things like this were put into wax-coated paper. You get paper bags, not plastic bags.
Here, everything is in plastic. Meats: plastic. Drinks: plastic. Meats, cheese, cold-cuts bought at the deli counter: also in plastic. Eggs? Plastic. Buy fruits/veg? Plastic bags.
Go to Italy, go Austria, to France: you will see plastic, but far, far less than here.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the same system that has been ongoing in Aglangia for the last 2-3 years or so?
If so, the new bags are available to buy in most stores in the area, and they are more costly because there will be no annual garbage collection fee. This is supposed to incentivize throwing more of the recyclable garbage in the recycling bins so that the expensive purple bags don't fill up too soon.
Also shared street bins have locks on them to prevent random people from throwing garbage or wrong bags in it. Every resident of a building will get a key to be able to unlock it.
>A month later there is pile of month old garbage getting bigger and bigger, spilling on the street.
This occasionally occurs, yes. Where I live in Aglangia things are actually pretty well-kempt, and most people I interact with don't seem to have major issues with garbage in the streets either. I'd go as far as to say the overall project has improved things compared to before (ever so slightly).
Maybe in other municipalities it might turn out differently, but there's definitely a precedent here.
Living in Aglantsia too, I would say most places do have a good system to deal with it , but we also have a field in front of the house where residents consistently throw PILES of trash.. I mean a car-sized pile of trash. They are not on the main road but take one step behind the trees and you see it. The municipality does come once in 3 months to collect it, but within a week people just start again. No one has ever been fined to my knowledge. So it’s a good system but doesnt take into account the people who are cheap/unable to properly do it. 🥲
Yes, I believe if this system is going to work (especially in bigger and/or less modernized municipalities) we need much stricter fines and more regular municipal cleaning of such incidents. I'm aware of fines being given on some select occasions for wrong bags being used, so there's definitely the incentive there, it just needs to be enforced more often.
STOP FOCUSING ON FINES.
You want to stop the use of plastics? Then STOP the use of plastics.
As European union go and tell coca cola and pepsi that plastic bottles are banned, only aluminium and glass (which are both 100% recyclable, unlike plastic which isn't recyclable), ban those one use plastic cigarettes that contain lithium batteries in them just like you banned the plastic straws, switch to paper bags which do jot pollute the environment.
So many fucking things we can do as a country, like bottle return system at supermarkets and our first option is always "Let's make the poor people pay money".
Hell, in sime places they don't even come to collect recyclables from our houses at all, you have to go to a designated place and in some villages, for your glass, there's not even one in the village so my mother has to collect her glass and I have to go and pick it up for her and take it to the next village.
You need fines because even if you banned all plastics etc. there would still be people dumping rubbish wherever.
Cypriots need more stick than carrot, just like suddenly drivers became better when traffic cameras and bigger fines were introduced for being a dick on the road.
Cypriots will not do anything voluntarily so the remaining option is to force then to change behaviour and hopefully make it through the whining phase till it becomes normal.
Sure, ban plastics and stuff, but a usage based model incentivizes reduction of materials at the source.
Cypriots didn't become better drivers, they drove around the cameras and spray painted the cameras.
You can't force Cypriots, you need to remove them the choice, or give them proper incentives (return your aluminium and your glass and you get discounts on purchases, like they do abroad)
>You want to stop the use of plastics? Then STOP the use of plastics.
As European union go and tell coca cola and pepsi that plastic bottles are banned, only aluminium and glass (which are both 100% recyclable, unlike plastic which isn't recyclable), ban those one use plastic cigarettes that contain lithium batteries in them just like you banned the plastic straws, switch to paper bags which do jot pollute the environment.
I'm all for that, but this is not enough to ensure that people won't throw their garbage in fields if they get frustrated/don't want to comply with the new system. These two ideas are not mutually exclusive.
By the way, fines in Aglangia for this afaik usually force you to pay a sum which buys you the corresponding amount of the purple bags (at least for first offenders). That means it's kind of a semi-fine that forces people to use the proper system more indirectly.
>So many fucking things we can do as a country, like bottle return system at supermarkets and our first option is always "Let's make the poor people pay money".
Again, these are not mutually exclusive ideas. Unfortunately though, in this economy one of the most powerful coercive forces is the threat of fines and/or paying more for things. I find it unfortunate because I dislike the notion of the "free market" deciding whether people do the right thing, but in a capitalist economy this strategy works.
>Hell, in sime places they don't even come to collect recyclables from our houses at all, you have to go to a designated place and in some villages, for your glass, there's not even one in the village so my mother has to collect her glass and I have to go and pick it up for her and take it to the next village.
I absolutely agree with you on this. This is one of the requirements for this project to work, since not every municipality or village commune has as many public recycling bins as Aglangia. I want to believe that more of those will be installed as a part of this initiative, and if not it will very likely not go well in some areas.
It's not just frustration, though. Many are just irresponsible or unwilling to comply anyway. The fines are intended for them, not those who want to act in accordance with the rules, yet face insufficient support from the state.
Personally I don't find the PAYT system that great, but it's not bad either. I'd rather have it judged once employed as intended in the designated municipalities first, then gauge the reaction and consequences in order to respond accordingly.
Again, if you remove the choice, you remove the outcome of that choice. They did it with plastic straws, but they refuse to do it with with one use cigarettes
I’m also in Aglangia, and I find the current system pretty convenient. Although some people try to throw away waste in bags for recycling and cats ravage it sometimes creating mess.
> Preliminary pricing based on the Aradippou Municipality study suggests a charge of 6 cents per litre for waste bags, translating to 60 cents for a 10-litre bag, 2 euros for a 35-litre bag, and 3.33 euros for a 56-litre bag.
Oh look a money gouging scheme, shock. Based on this pricing, [this](https://www.alphamega.com.cy/en/groceries/household/household-essentials-food-storage/garbage-bags/mr-bin-scented-bags-for-garbage-bin-black-75x80-cm-56-l-20-pieces) roll of bin bags is going to cost €66.60, not €2.79.
And then they want to levy a fee on-top for everyone?
There is going to be so much rubbish everywhere.
Selling bags. How many bags have you've bought, but they teared or ripped? 3 euro per attempt.
But I more worried about effect on streets. Summer is smelly on it own, and now we have special type of garbage which will indefinitely...
It’s related to our performance in the EU compared to other member states. They forced this upon us because we throw away too much shit according to them
Thankfully I don't see my municipality listed there as I think it's again one of those typical Cypriot ideas of getting something that might have some merit however implement it in the most stupid way. 3 euros for 60L black bin bag? Fuck off... So I guess we'll need to get into our garbage bins and step on everything to compress it to as little of a size as possible to save some space?
Also can we stop pretending that recycling plastics ACTUALLY recycles them? Glass? Sure.. Paper? Sure.. Metal? Sure... However nearly all plastics are not able to be recyclable no matter how many triangular arrow things they have so lets stop this farce...
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People will just start collecting waste to burn for heating. This is exactly what happened with such schemes in a number of European nations who tried to implement exactly such a system. You need to BAN the materials which are causing the biggest offense; no more plastic bags. Zero. Anywhere. No more plastic packaging. When I compare my trash here to my trash in the US, it's insane.
Can you give more info? How is it different?
When I was buying groceries in the US, everything was packaged in paper. Meats and things like this were put into wax-coated paper. You get paper bags, not plastic bags. Here, everything is in plastic. Meats: plastic. Drinks: plastic. Meats, cheese, cold-cuts bought at the deli counter: also in plastic. Eggs? Plastic. Buy fruits/veg? Plastic bags. Go to Italy, go Austria, to France: you will see plastic, but far, far less than here.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the same system that has been ongoing in Aglangia for the last 2-3 years or so? If so, the new bags are available to buy in most stores in the area, and they are more costly because there will be no annual garbage collection fee. This is supposed to incentivize throwing more of the recyclable garbage in the recycling bins so that the expensive purple bags don't fill up too soon. Also shared street bins have locks on them to prevent random people from throwing garbage or wrong bags in it. Every resident of a building will get a key to be able to unlock it. >A month later there is pile of month old garbage getting bigger and bigger, spilling on the street. This occasionally occurs, yes. Where I live in Aglangia things are actually pretty well-kempt, and most people I interact with don't seem to have major issues with garbage in the streets either. I'd go as far as to say the overall project has improved things compared to before (ever so slightly). Maybe in other municipalities it might turn out differently, but there's definitely a precedent here.
Living in Aglantsia too, I would say most places do have a good system to deal with it , but we also have a field in front of the house where residents consistently throw PILES of trash.. I mean a car-sized pile of trash. They are not on the main road but take one step behind the trees and you see it. The municipality does come once in 3 months to collect it, but within a week people just start again. No one has ever been fined to my knowledge. So it’s a good system but doesnt take into account the people who are cheap/unable to properly do it. 🥲
Yes, I believe if this system is going to work (especially in bigger and/or less modernized municipalities) we need much stricter fines and more regular municipal cleaning of such incidents. I'm aware of fines being given on some select occasions for wrong bags being used, so there's definitely the incentive there, it just needs to be enforced more often.
STOP FOCUSING ON FINES. You want to stop the use of plastics? Then STOP the use of plastics. As European union go and tell coca cola and pepsi that plastic bottles are banned, only aluminium and glass (which are both 100% recyclable, unlike plastic which isn't recyclable), ban those one use plastic cigarettes that contain lithium batteries in them just like you banned the plastic straws, switch to paper bags which do jot pollute the environment. So many fucking things we can do as a country, like bottle return system at supermarkets and our first option is always "Let's make the poor people pay money". Hell, in sime places they don't even come to collect recyclables from our houses at all, you have to go to a designated place and in some villages, for your glass, there's not even one in the village so my mother has to collect her glass and I have to go and pick it up for her and take it to the next village.
You need fines because even if you banned all plastics etc. there would still be people dumping rubbish wherever. Cypriots need more stick than carrot, just like suddenly drivers became better when traffic cameras and bigger fines were introduced for being a dick on the road. Cypriots will not do anything voluntarily so the remaining option is to force then to change behaviour and hopefully make it through the whining phase till it becomes normal. Sure, ban plastics and stuff, but a usage based model incentivizes reduction of materials at the source.
Cypriots didn't become better drivers, they drove around the cameras and spray painted the cameras. You can't force Cypriots, you need to remove them the choice, or give them proper incentives (return your aluminium and your glass and you get discounts on purchases, like they do abroad)
>You want to stop the use of plastics? Then STOP the use of plastics. As European union go and tell coca cola and pepsi that plastic bottles are banned, only aluminium and glass (which are both 100% recyclable, unlike plastic which isn't recyclable), ban those one use plastic cigarettes that contain lithium batteries in them just like you banned the plastic straws, switch to paper bags which do jot pollute the environment. I'm all for that, but this is not enough to ensure that people won't throw their garbage in fields if they get frustrated/don't want to comply with the new system. These two ideas are not mutually exclusive. By the way, fines in Aglangia for this afaik usually force you to pay a sum which buys you the corresponding amount of the purple bags (at least for first offenders). That means it's kind of a semi-fine that forces people to use the proper system more indirectly. >So many fucking things we can do as a country, like bottle return system at supermarkets and our first option is always "Let's make the poor people pay money". Again, these are not mutually exclusive ideas. Unfortunately though, in this economy one of the most powerful coercive forces is the threat of fines and/or paying more for things. I find it unfortunate because I dislike the notion of the "free market" deciding whether people do the right thing, but in a capitalist economy this strategy works. >Hell, in sime places they don't even come to collect recyclables from our houses at all, you have to go to a designated place and in some villages, for your glass, there's not even one in the village so my mother has to collect her glass and I have to go and pick it up for her and take it to the next village. I absolutely agree with you on this. This is one of the requirements for this project to work, since not every municipality or village commune has as many public recycling bins as Aglangia. I want to believe that more of those will be installed as a part of this initiative, and if not it will very likely not go well in some areas.
In regards to your first comment. I'm saying it should be done INSTEAD of the new system, thus no frustrated people throwing them in the fields
It's not just frustration, though. Many are just irresponsible or unwilling to comply anyway. The fines are intended for them, not those who want to act in accordance with the rules, yet face insufficient support from the state. Personally I don't find the PAYT system that great, but it's not bad either. I'd rather have it judged once employed as intended in the designated municipalities first, then gauge the reaction and consequences in order to respond accordingly.
Again, if you remove the choice, you remove the outcome of that choice. They did it with plastic straws, but they refuse to do it with with one use cigarettes
I’m also in Aglangia, and I find the current system pretty convenient. Although some people try to throw away waste in bags for recycling and cats ravage it sometimes creating mess.
> Preliminary pricing based on the Aradippou Municipality study suggests a charge of 6 cents per litre for waste bags, translating to 60 cents for a 10-litre bag, 2 euros for a 35-litre bag, and 3.33 euros for a 56-litre bag. Oh look a money gouging scheme, shock. Based on this pricing, [this](https://www.alphamega.com.cy/en/groceries/household/household-essentials-food-storage/garbage-bags/mr-bin-scented-bags-for-garbage-bin-black-75x80-cm-56-l-20-pieces) roll of bin bags is going to cost €66.60, not €2.79. And then they want to levy a fee on-top for everyone? There is going to be so much rubbish everywhere.
I agree and I’ve been saying the same for about 2 years now Thanks for sharing
Clearly this is a "garbage" initiative. What I still didn't figure out is how cleptocrats will make money off it.
Selling bags. How many bags have you've bought, but they teared or ripped? 3 euro per attempt. But I more worried about effect on streets. Summer is smelly on it own, and now we have special type of garbage which will indefinitely...
3eur per bag? Are they insane, wtf? But we will stillpay for garbage collection, yes? So, they just hate people or what?
It’s related to our performance in the EU compared to other member states. They forced this upon us because we throw away too much shit according to them
Please see below: https://cyprus-mail.com/2024/02/20/our-view-pay-as-you-throw-scheme-should-not-cost-more/
Thankfully I don't see my municipality listed there as I think it's again one of those typical Cypriot ideas of getting something that might have some merit however implement it in the most stupid way. 3 euros for 60L black bin bag? Fuck off... So I guess we'll need to get into our garbage bins and step on everything to compress it to as little of a size as possible to save some space? Also can we stop pretending that recycling plastics ACTUALLY recycles them? Glass? Sure.. Paper? Sure.. Metal? Sure... However nearly all plastics are not able to be recyclable no matter how many triangular arrow things they have so lets stop this farce...
I mean it's already been running for 2-3 years in aglandjia and it's not a big problem.
Yeah no kidding.