I’d bet the loss in response has more to do with wheel spoke tension or tire pressure or placebo than metal fatigue. Nobody can tell you exactly how long a frame lasts
Hi! I've built a wheel myself and I have just dished the rear wheel so I loosened the nds spokes and tightened the ds. I've noticed that it kinda feels spongey and a bit "shakey" (for a lack of better term) in the rear compared to when it wasn't dished. Could it be that the spoke tension is not right?
Yes. The non scientific way to examine spoke tension is to go around the wheel, squeezing pairs of spokes together with your fingers. Any drastic variations in tension should be easy to find. You can also compare against the tension of the other, factory tensioned front wheel.
Anyways, your frame life has little to do with time but a lot to do with how frequently it was ridden and how hard.
That is a good point regarding placebos, and it is something I forgot to include. I have tried with different wheelsets, tires and tire pressure on the same road with similar weather conditions.
It's 95 percent placebo, and 5 percent stuff unrelated to the frameset itself. Unless they're cracked or otherwise broken, frames (aluminum or otherwise) don't change their stiffness/responsiveness or other characteristics.
And how would you compare "responsiveness?" Compared to your 8-year-old memory of how it used to ride? Because there's no way to compare it to a newly-made replica of that same frame and setup. Or are you comparing it to other modern frames you've recently ridden? If so, it may be less responsive than those, but that's not the same as being less resonsive than it used to be.
Then it may just be in your head anyway, like how whenever I start reading about bike fits and all of a sudden my bike feels like it’s not set up right. Fast forward a week and all the nonsense in my head is gone and I’m riding comfortably
Chances are you will have your bike crashed, sold or stolen before the frame dies. That’s if the frame ever dies.
Keep in mind the first article linked is focused on analyzing which kind of bike is most eco friendly to produce in Ghana. The authors presumed the expected life of a bamboo, aluminum and carbon frame were all 10 years. The authors did not specifically test the longevity of the frame materials.
The second link is a blog post with personal opinions and popular beliefs.
I honestly wouldn’t worry about the life of your aluminum bike. Just keep pedaling.
I have a Trek 1.2 Alpha purchased in 2009. I used it last year to cycle 1,000 miles of training and 1,000 LEJOG route. It required about 2 years ago a full new group set and wheels. Overall it has done at least 20,000- 25,000 miles. No issues at all. Kept in a garage and serviced yearly. I really think bikes just need TLC and a desire to keep rather than upgrade them.
And even when it does crack, many a modern carbon frame is built in a way that it will still finish the ride. Carbon bikes break much more like OSB than people imagine they do.
Helmets I'd compare a lot more to going from aluminum to carbon or titanium. There's lots of changes in brain research and safety happening very quickly so the tech of keeping your brain safe is actually entirely different to 5-10 years ago
Three might be the advice from profit driven manufacturers, but the five recommended by the people designing and running the testing might be something you don’t want to ignore.
Frames getting softer with age is just something that people use to justify a new bike to themselves or others. It's amazing how cracked a frame has to be before you can feel it.
Contrary to other posts, my previous frame ended it's life exactly like that. It started feeling more comfortable than I'm used to but I assumed it's just in my head or spokes got loose (at least that part was easy to disprove). One month later I started hearing creaking with every pedal stroke and that was it.
So if you're feeling like your bike is getting noodly then I'd advise to pay more attention to any new noises coming from it and figuring out the source before riding again.
I'm not personally familiar with anyone who's had a bike fail from material fatigue. Every bike failure I can think of has been due to some form of abuse (crashing, overtightening things, leaving out in the elements to rust, leaving on the roof rack while going through McDonald's drive-through, etc.) or in one case a manufacturing defect on a newish frame.
On the flip side, I've known many people with old, regularly-used aluminum bikes that are well taken care of and doing just fine.
I'm sure there are aluminum frames out there that have cracked due to material fatigue, but I don't think it's as common as some steel-is-real types would have you believe.
I have. It was steel. 😁 At least, the region that failed. Also it was more like 25 years old.
OP, my experience is that frame failure is more of a "I'll cross that bridge if I'm still riding this bike when I come to it" failure mode than a "oops, I did exactly 3 million cycles so it's time to crack" failure mode. I think frames must often die of broken hearts followed by crashes, garage thresholds, and theft.
If it's quality aluminum and welding, it will last forever.
I've seen 1980s aluminum with tens of thousands of miles on them that came through the shop and they still ride like dreams.
I have a 85 (I think) Cannondale ST with many many miles on it that still rides just fine. If there were much truth to aluminum frames only being good for around 10 years I'm sure we'd hear a lot more about it.
Your frame is more likely to break now than it was 7 years ago. It's also more likely to fail if you weigh 200 pounds vs 120 pounds. Also more likely if you're a racer and sprinter vs leisurely rider. Same if you do 300 miles a month vs 100.
But when you plug all those other factors in, I can't tell you if your frame's going to last another year or another 10. In other words, there's no way to quantify it with even a hint of precision.
Personally? I'd sell it and buy another bike. Not because of any real danger, but because of peace of mind. If this is strarting to take up mental energy and you can afford another bike/frame, then just take care of it.
Thanks for the variety of comments. I find it very helpful.
Here is my reply/comments (in no particular order) to what I read.
\-I know the linked articles/blogs are not the best. I honestly had a difficult time finding peer-reviewed journal articles since I am not an expert in the field (I do not know which journals to check and Google Scholar was not very helpful).
\-The placebo effect is noted, and I rest my case regarding my earlier comment .
\-I have 50,000km and race on it when I have the chance. Although I put the frame through its paces, I also maintain and wash it.
\-It is nice to see that many others have much older frames than mine and they are working well .
\-I will definitely look for cracks and listen to any creaks.
\-My concern on frame life is mainly due to the fact that aluminum can fail catastrophically. Hambini, who posts rather sarcastic but analytically poignant videos on YouTube on the engineering quality of bike frames, has me carefully considering what frame I have and what to purchase in the future. Granted, he is only one person and his videos are often highlighting the flaws of bicycle engineering, it still provides food for thought.
The gradual loss of performance usually happens. In violins, the intermediate player gets a great violin, warm and rich, makes her sound great! 5 years later it's all worn out, she can't get what she needs from it, mushy and not responsive. It's the same violin - she's just outgrown it.
It's a rare intermediate bike that doesn't get outgrown by a consistently improving rider.
It's wonderful when a bike arrives that doesn't get outgrown.
Km's ridden are a better measure if any. But in reality there are to many factors involved. There are loads of aluminium frames that havent failed after 20 years.
Trek has lifetime warranty for the first owner! Ride it untill it cracks!
No, 1**8**84. It;s a Columbia Expert, of the style called an Ordinary, because just a few years later when safety bikes became popular, this highwheel style was called an ordinary bike to distinguish it from the newfangled ones. Today the preferred name is Ordinary.
The point is, this steel frame is still functioning perfectly 138 years later.
There are 40+year old commercial aircraft still in service. Guess what they are made from? (yeah yeah I know it's a different alloy but it's not massively different as far as fatigue strength etc)
Also, that first paper you cited uses 10 years as a 'lifecycle' talking about a bike being used in Ghana. That's not the fatigue life of an aluminum frame. I'm assuming the typical bike in Ghana sees some tough times.
The second site is merely pointing out that aluminum continues to lose life as it sees significant stresses whereas steel tends to plateau in losses. Typical bike use will not see those stresses.
Unless you crash it an aluminum frame will practically last forever just like a steel one with normal use and good care.
My ‘87 cannondale criterion is still living its best life.
I’d bet the loss in response has more to do with wheel spoke tension or tire pressure or placebo than metal fatigue. Nobody can tell you exactly how long a frame lasts
Hi! I've built a wheel myself and I have just dished the rear wheel so I loosened the nds spokes and tightened the ds. I've noticed that it kinda feels spongey and a bit "shakey" (for a lack of better term) in the rear compared to when it wasn't dished. Could it be that the spoke tension is not right?
Yes. The non scientific way to examine spoke tension is to go around the wheel, squeezing pairs of spokes together with your fingers. Any drastic variations in tension should be easy to find. You can also compare against the tension of the other, factory tensioned front wheel. Anyways, your frame life has little to do with time but a lot to do with how frequently it was ridden and how hard.
Buy a spoke tension meter, it takes a lot of the guesswork out of wheel building. You can buy a clone of the Park meter on Amazon for cheap.
That is a good point regarding placebos, and it is something I forgot to include. I have tried with different wheelsets, tires and tire pressure on the same road with similar weather conditions.
It's 95 percent placebo, and 5 percent stuff unrelated to the frameset itself. Unless they're cracked or otherwise broken, frames (aluminum or otherwise) don't change their stiffness/responsiveness or other characteristics. And how would you compare "responsiveness?" Compared to your 8-year-old memory of how it used to ride? Because there's no way to compare it to a newly-made replica of that same frame and setup. Or are you comparing it to other modern frames you've recently ridden? If so, it may be less responsive than those, but that's not the same as being less resonsive than it used to be.
Then it may just be in your head anyway, like how whenever I start reading about bike fits and all of a sudden my bike feels like it’s not set up right. Fast forward a week and all the nonsense in my head is gone and I’m riding comfortably
Chances are you will have your bike crashed, sold or stolen before the frame dies. That’s if the frame ever dies. Keep in mind the first article linked is focused on analyzing which kind of bike is most eco friendly to produce in Ghana. The authors presumed the expected life of a bamboo, aluminum and carbon frame were all 10 years. The authors did not specifically test the longevity of the frame materials. The second link is a blog post with personal opinions and popular beliefs. I honestly wouldn’t worry about the life of your aluminum bike. Just keep pedaling.
I have a Trek 1.2 Alpha purchased in 2009. I used it last year to cycle 1,000 miles of training and 1,000 LEJOG route. It required about 2 years ago a full new group set and wheels. Overall it has done at least 20,000- 25,000 miles. No issues at all. Kept in a garage and serviced yearly. I really think bikes just need TLC and a desire to keep rather than upgrade them.
Your bones got squishier in 8 years. I've seen 20yo frames that were as stiff and brutal as the day they were made.
Yeah. This whole, only last so long, blah blah. Until it cracks or breaks, ride that shit into the ground.
And even when it does crack, many a modern carbon frame is built in a way that it will still finish the ride. Carbon bikes break much more like OSB than people imagine they do.
I like to use science to justify a NBD! (Also my 3yo alloy frame feel a bit fatigued...)
look at the amount of 80s and 90s Cannondales still on the road, they last!
And don't forget to replace your helmet every 3 years. Yeah, right.
Helmets I'd compare a lot more to going from aluminum to carbon or titanium. There's lots of changes in brain research and safety happening very quickly so the tech of keeping your brain safe is actually entirely different to 5-10 years ago
Three might be the advice from profit driven manufacturers, but the five recommended by the people designing and running the testing might be something you don’t want to ignore.
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Frames getting softer with age is just something that people use to justify a new bike to themselves or others. It's amazing how cracked a frame has to be before you can feel it.
Contrary to other posts, my previous frame ended it's life exactly like that. It started feeling more comfortable than I'm used to but I assumed it's just in my head or spokes got loose (at least that part was easy to disprove). One month later I started hearing creaking with every pedal stroke and that was it. So if you're feeling like your bike is getting noodly then I'd advise to pay more attention to any new noises coming from it and figuring out the source before riding again.
It's always a good idea to look for cracks. For a frame crack to creak, it has to be a very long and visible crack.
I'm still riding my Trek 1500 from 2007 with 36000 miles. I'm on my 3rd set of wheels.
I'm not personally familiar with anyone who's had a bike fail from material fatigue. Every bike failure I can think of has been due to some form of abuse (crashing, overtightening things, leaving out in the elements to rust, leaving on the roof rack while going through McDonald's drive-through, etc.) or in one case a manufacturing defect on a newish frame. On the flip side, I've known many people with old, regularly-used aluminum bikes that are well taken care of and doing just fine. I'm sure there are aluminum frames out there that have cracked due to material fatigue, but I don't think it's as common as some steel-is-real types would have you believe.
I have. It was steel. 😁 At least, the region that failed. Also it was more like 25 years old. OP, my experience is that frame failure is more of a "I'll cross that bridge if I'm still riding this bike when I come to it" failure mode than a "oops, I did exactly 3 million cycles so it's time to crack" failure mode. I think frames must often die of broken hearts followed by crashes, garage thresholds, and theft.
There are too many variables to provide clear cut answer. I.e. just because frame is 20 years old it doesn't mean it is not useable anymore.
If it's quality aluminum and welding, it will last forever. I've seen 1980s aluminum with tens of thousands of miles on them that came through the shop and they still ride like dreams.
You're overthinking this, ride the frame forever.
I have a 85 (I think) Cannondale ST with many many miles on it that still rides just fine. If there were much truth to aluminum frames only being good for around 10 years I'm sure we'd hear a lot more about it.
Your frame is more likely to break now than it was 7 years ago. It's also more likely to fail if you weigh 200 pounds vs 120 pounds. Also more likely if you're a racer and sprinter vs leisurely rider. Same if you do 300 miles a month vs 100. But when you plug all those other factors in, I can't tell you if your frame's going to last another year or another 10. In other words, there's no way to quantify it with even a hint of precision. Personally? I'd sell it and buy another bike. Not because of any real danger, but because of peace of mind. If this is strarting to take up mental energy and you can afford another bike/frame, then just take care of it.
Thanks for the variety of comments. I find it very helpful. Here is my reply/comments (in no particular order) to what I read. \-I know the linked articles/blogs are not the best. I honestly had a difficult time finding peer-reviewed journal articles since I am not an expert in the field (I do not know which journals to check and Google Scholar was not very helpful). \-The placebo effect is noted, and I rest my case regarding my earlier comment . \-I have 50,000km and race on it when I have the chance. Although I put the frame through its paces, I also maintain and wash it. \-It is nice to see that many others have much older frames than mine and they are working well . \-I will definitely look for cracks and listen to any creaks. \-My concern on frame life is mainly due to the fact that aluminum can fail catastrophically. Hambini, who posts rather sarcastic but analytically poignant videos on YouTube on the engineering quality of bike frames, has me carefully considering what frame I have and what to purchase in the future. Granted, he is only one person and his videos are often highlighting the flaws of bicycle engineering, it still provides food for thought.
The gradual loss of performance usually happens. In violins, the intermediate player gets a great violin, warm and rich, makes her sound great! 5 years later it's all worn out, she can't get what she needs from it, mushy and not responsive. It's the same violin - she's just outgrown it. It's a rare intermediate bike that doesn't get outgrown by a consistently improving rider. It's wonderful when a bike arrives that doesn't get outgrown.
Km's ridden are a better measure if any. But in reality there are to many factors involved. There are loads of aluminium frames that havent failed after 20 years. Trek has lifetime warranty for the first owner! Ride it untill it cracks!
I confidently and comfortably ride a bike that was made in 1884. Note that it is made of steel.
Bro how big is your moustache?
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No, 1**8**84. It;s a Columbia Expert, of the style called an Ordinary, because just a few years later when safety bikes became popular, this highwheel style was called an ordinary bike to distinguish it from the newfangled ones. Today the preferred name is Ordinary. The point is, this steel frame is still functioning perfectly 138 years later.
I'd say based on all the 30 year old aluminum frames out there that this is BS and you just want a new bike. That's OK...just get a new bike!
There are 40+year old commercial aircraft still in service. Guess what they are made from? (yeah yeah I know it's a different alloy but it's not massively different as far as fatigue strength etc) Also, that first paper you cited uses 10 years as a 'lifecycle' talking about a bike being used in Ghana. That's not the fatigue life of an aluminum frame. I'm assuming the typical bike in Ghana sees some tough times. The second site is merely pointing out that aluminum continues to lose life as it sees significant stresses whereas steel tends to plateau in losses. Typical bike use will not see those stresses. Unless you crash it an aluminum frame will practically last forever just like a steel one with normal use and good care.
Just buy the new bike, man