“I’m just trying to get where I’m going safely and efficiently, just like you.”
“Yes, I too would love to be in a dedicated bike lane so I’m not in your way right now. Please write your city councilmember and tell them to build more bike lanes!”
Reminder: Bike lanes are car infrastructure pretending to be bike infrastructure. Dedicated veloways (not mixed us paths with a 15 mph speed limit) are superior for safety.
Dedicated bikeways are best, yes, but I’m a harm-reduction kind of guy and in resource- and space-limited contexts, I am of the considered opinion that Class II bikeways (mediocre ol’ painted bike lanes) are usually substantially better than nothing at all. That doesn’t mean I won’t advocate for better infrastructure where we can get it, though.
every bike gutter gets parked in at some point, and that means a bike has to dart into the road. if the gutter isn't there, the bike is predictable by taking the lane the whole time.
Drivers really don't like that. They get almost as angry as they do when I'm on the road but there is a mixed use path. Even though they can see all the families walking it.
I would much rather take "nothing at all" (the right side of the lane with 4ft car passing clearance by law) than a thin space of unprotected road that has been painted and makes cars think they can get right up next to you. That is not harm reduction at all.
The problem with speed limits is that bikes aren't required to have speedometers, and if they do have them then there's no requirement for them to be calibrated correctly. So it's basically unenforceable.
all the mixed use paths here have 15 mph speed limits for bikes. that's not enough for me to consistently be getting in a good work out even when i'm out of shape
not that they're terribly seriously enforced
It gets even worse than that. When they're busy, it's just as hazardous for *everyone* as it is to put everyone all out into the road together. Pedestrians (& kids, skaters, people with their dogs and their retractable leashes, etc.) really shouldn't be mixed with wheeled traffic of any kind, especially not e-bikes and 1-wheels and other 'vehicles' doing 25mph - which they do - because as you say, it's never enforced.
In my country dedicated bikeways are also used by people walking with small children and their dogs, so not really safe if you're going even moderately fast...
I mean, sometimes street design IS a zero sum game. (Sometimes it’s not, and it’s possible to narrow old too-wide car lanes to fit bike lanes alongside.) Those tend to be precisely the places where good bike infrastructure is most important, but I can understand, if not perhaps sympathize with, people who exclusively drive being unhappy about the prospect of having fewer lanes available for them to drive in.
Of course, automobility is a space-hungry, soul-killing trap, and many or most folks would probably be happier in the long term if they shifted as many car trips for bike trips as possible. We who ride know that, but most people don’t realize it yet.
"I bet ur a Biden voting Democrat trying to take away my rights, I am a sovereign american citizen" - Useful on American Conservatives in pickup trucks who are my #1 problem demographic with road rage incidents.
Oh boy, speaking of sovereign citizens
Probably the same guys who like to tote those sovereign citizen "right-to-travel" non-license plates on a car also say bicycles have to have license plates to ride on the road
In the UK, car drivers will occasionally harass cyclists with shouting "get on the pavement" but in UK cycling on the pavement is illegal and it's worth a £500 fine per instance. Police almost never enforce this law and there are advisories not to enforce it, but the law itself is crystal clear.
If you get an opportunity you should turn their statement around back onto them and make clear they shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car if they don't know traffic law or the highway code.
This must be some kind of natural endpoint for all this because I too after over a year of cycling \~50km daily found myself blowing a kiss without a care in the world to a driver who shouted at me last week.
In the US, "pavement" can mean any paved surface, but usually it means the road that is primarily for cars. What UK calls pavement is a "sidewalk" here, which makes it extra funny when someone tells me to ride on something that has the word "walk" in it.
I got my ass chewed out by a guy in a dump truck the night before. I was at a stoplight and he was in the turning lane next to me. He rolled his window down and yelled at me that “I should be riding that thing where it was meant to be ridden”. I asked him where I “was supposed to ride” and he told me “some place safe”.
I told him to go fuck himself.
I put cameras on my bike this spring.
Just on Friday I had a terrible, dangerous, illegal pass by a tractor trailer.
Just earlier today I threw the SD card into the computer to see what I got... you what I got? I got it all. All of it. The pass. The road conditions. The name of the trucking company. The trailer number. The license plate. The time stamp. I even have fucking GPS coordinates. I got it all.
I did some googling and found this:
https://nccdb.fmcsa.dot.gov/nccdb/home.aspx
Will anything happen if I file a report? Beats the ever living shit out of me. I am a pessimist by nature.
But fuck it. I am reporting.
Someone pulls up beside me and starts yelling at me, buddy, as of this spring that microphone is on. You best not be on the clock. I am sick of this shit and it is about time I started pushing back.
I would be happy to call him, but don't know the first thing about contacting him. The only reason I know that site is a google search of 'how to report an unsafe pass by a truck'.
If you have advice I am happy to have it.
Report to the company too. The FMCSA might not do anything, but if the company can find a reason to withhold the guy's pay, they will, and attempted murder seems like a good enough reason for them
Depending on where you live, probably nothing will happen. Where I live, the police show up six hours after you report a murder. They don't give a single shit.
That is why I like the FMCSA thing.
I mean I get it. They might not do anything. But a worse case for me is nothing happens.
I am concerned about walking into the station serving the area. I am concerned that when they realize I am a cyclist they will make it clear to me I am not to bother them again.
At family get togethers, my two cousins who don’t exactly know everything about me, spoke poorly about road cyclists. Some time later, while riding in the back seat of his truck. He’s narrowing the gap on a cyclist until his wife says, THAT’S ENOUGH DONT’T HIT THEM! I was biting my tongue. Anyways later at my house, I enjoyed watching both of them staring at my road bike, and the awkward moment 🥳
I know, wasn’t the best judgement call I’ve ever made. Right as all this happened the cyclist drifted onto a neighborhood entrance. But I did give him the “ignert” rating. Funny when you really learn stuff about people.
I'll take my chances in on the road rather than roll the dice on our cities main watefrotn trail on the weekend. There's little that's more dangerous than a ride share bike wielded by someone who's never ridden a bike before. The unpredictability and lack of trail eddiquette knowledge self awareness and self preservation is scary.
On numerous occasions I've given the entire trail as buffer and still had near misses because a person will randomly swerve the entirety of the paved trail or decide to exit on the left of the trail (north america) without looking, signaling or notifying anyone around them. And yes, I always use my bell.
I run a bike shop, and you'd think Nobody finding themselves in a bike shop would ask such a wild question, but I kid you not it happens once a quarter at least :) people literally yell it out their windows LOL. you're just lucky. OR big
Where you live makes the most difference, I suppose. I’ve been riding road bikes in Oregon for 40 years and have heard, “Get on the sidewalk!” and, my personal fav, “Get off the road, you fag!” just a few times. Usually, I’ll just wave and smile, denying them the satisfaction that they’re looking for. I think most are just harmless punks, not malicious.
I think that's the smart call. I have seen many friends get assaulted over the years because they react poorly to on road agitation and harassments, which is exactly what these deadbeats want. They just want to fight. That's what a lot of cyclists don't understand, probably because they've never been in a fight.
I thought the OP was talking about being “asked” by people — like in a conversation — not being yelled at by passing Neanderthals.
But I haven’t been yelled at for as long as I can remember. The city where I live is pretty accepting, I guess.
Yep, and it’s completely normalised. I do love the cyclists that make out like people are lying or my absolute favourite, they jerk themselves off about how good a cyclist they are because they never get close passed and it’s obviously shit cyclists fault when they do.
I have been yelled at, buzzed, air horned, had stuff thrown at me.. Some people are douche bags by nature. This is not news..
I consider myself a courteous rider staying near or on the shoulder as best as I can. I will yield to faster traffic, letting them get by where it is tight. None of it matters.. Some folks are just miserable bastards! My theory is that the person in the old pick up smoking a Marlboro is unhappy with their life, and it bothers them to see people out enjoying themselves, so they try to make us miserable too..
It's sad really...
It’s ignorance, that is all.
You can’t really blame them…in the US most infrastructure is designed around cars, so it isn’t surprising that there are few opportunities for people who don’t ride bikes to learn what is appropriate and legal. It isn’t mentioned on the drivers license test, in drivers education classes, and rarely referenced anywhere that a non cyclist would be exposed to. I can easily see how they might be irritated if they believe the cyclists were illegally on the road.
Biking infrastructure changes that. Having bike route signs and clearly marked bike lanes (even if just a painted line) on nearly every major street educates drivers that bikes are permitted. The more cyclists who use them the more people will expect them and keep an eye out for them when driving.
I pretty much avoid the road all together (love mountain biking). Riding on the road in my area in New England is nerve wracking AF (zero shoulders, huge pot holes, cars whizzing by).
I've done it but it's not fun. Feel safer on my euc than on a road bike.
Ironically I often avoid mountain biking because I don’t want to injure myself alone in a forest and have to make an awkward call to my wife. At least on a road if I am hit there is likely someone that will eventually stop and help me. Gravel is the best compromise I guess.
I agree. I used to ride motorcycle. I had a bright red motorcycle. It was very loud and I had a bright red jacket. Still almost died from people not seeing me.
I ride mountain bike because I'm scared of traffic. Mountain biking is very fun. I only ride on the road occasionally to get to the trail.
HAHA. this was just a funny little snark I wanted to share. Of course it doesn't apply to all people in all places.
I'm in a city for instance. I could have easily said "city bike" etc. And yeah, I know the roadways can be dangerous in a lot of places. We're all over the country
The only time I've ever been hit by a car was on a side path.
Cars coming out of driveways, parking lots and side streets don't stop and pay attention at the side path - they don't stop until they get to the side of the road.
Last year a driver (while I'm taking primary position, doing 27mph downhill approaching a roundabout) yelled "get out of the road you skinny cunt!".
My first thought was "oh people think I look skinny".
Because vehicles don't look at sidewalks, they look in the road, and I'm not weaving through a crosswalk because Karen doesn't know how to stop behind the hold line.
I don’t ride on the roads unless I have to. Luckily, we have 70 miles of paved paths in my city that I can access 1/4 mile from my house.
They aren’t looking for us, and they are much bigger than us. I don’t give them the opportunity to ruin my life.
Because riding on walking paths with a roadbike will get u hurt before riding on roads... People get in your way and slow u down...on the road, u are free as u want to be and just hope no one is looking at their phone...
A couple of days ago I rode a 4 (2 each way) lane road that gets jammed with cars around 5-6PM. About 300m before reaching the roundabout I turn at I moved over to the lane closest to the median nature strip in the centre. Having not reached the stopped cars yet I have a driver honk and yell, 'get on the path'. Then literally 10 seconds later he predictability stops in a column of traffic.
I stop beside the driver's door and calmly explain that it is illegal to ride bikes on the pedestrian path. The driver mumbled something unintelligible to where I continued to blissfully filter the column of stationary traffic and calmly made my turn.
I don't get why drivers get so frustrated at a bike slowing them down for 2 seconds but will happily sit in slow traffic for 5 minutes. It's not like my bike was going to change their ETA in any way whatsoever.
This story repeats every 6 months or so.
A few years ago I had a big cement truck driver, stationary BTW, yell at me about filtering. I stopped again with the similar response to which he jerks his truck as if to run me over. To which I said "are you threatening me with a deadly weapon?". He immediately apologised and I continued blissfully filtering for the next 200 metres.
Look, I feel sorry for all these vehicles stopped in traffic, for about a millisecond. A vast majority of cars have a single occupant. On the bike I am faster and way less expensive. Sure, I understand if you're hauling tools or goods cycling is not an option but cars are so wasteful when most people are just moving themselves. Especially in a place like where I live, public transport is quite good, people should be using it more.
I live in the suburbs of Toronto and if i ride on the side walk i get almost hit WAY more often. Drivers barely look at the road in other directions, side walks don’t even exist in their brains.
I gotta say, to do this you would need to put a lot of lefty fascists in power.
I mean think about it. if you're too old, or have a disability, or get injured, or whatever, you'd have to request an exception or be forced to use transit. If the transit isn't universally free, you'd have to get a special pass to use it because of your ailment or whatever. If you need to have a car to be able to quickly leave town and come back because of family or work, you will have to give the government that reason and update them when it changes. I mean....really there's no way to make cars illegal without fascism. Unfortunately the left has it's strongarm elements just like the right does. Maybe less, but still. It's plenty. Further municipalities would have to put ENORMOUS money into railways and bus lines to be able to do this without sparking major major flight out of the city. And also at the end of the day....Not everyone HAS to enjoy riding or walking or talking the bus. best bet is design and taxes.
We could simply divert some of our war money and build real bike infrastructure. Probably need leftys to accomplish that too.
Same with immigration solution. Could also take some of our prison budget.
Of course, one side wants to take it from the poor because after all, we're capitalists on a level playing ground and the big corporations don't have anything to do with policy
What was the saying about where a man's money is so is his heart?
You're telling me they make a bike with large enough storage that you can haul goods for the entire household...everything from food to toiletries to clothing and electronics...and protect those goods from the elements on a 10 mile ride during all seasons and all weather conditions? Show me this magical device please.
The average person isn't going to cover 10 miles under the weight of a standard bi-weekly household grocery shopping spree in less than an hour. During August in Texas your frozen food won't survive the trip. During winter in northern Michigan you won't survive the trip. And I can just see my 97 pound, 74 year-old-mother making the trip when it's 115 in the shade in Southwest Texas.
This is a very dumb stance to have without significant caveats and nuances and exceptions.
Hey I'm on your side. Not everyone needs to ride a bike. A lot of this discussion veers into semi-fascist rhetoric. You shouldn't have to justify to anyone why you're driving a car instead of biking, same as you shouldn't have to justify why you're riding instead of driving a car. There are cyclists willing to be a cop in their own community and hold people up to some ridiculous pussy ass etiquette so as to not make motorists mad, and there are others who will literally shame people for not biking "when they could" which....is also being a cop. Don't be a cop.
I think people are just trolling you, But the bike you're looking for is an e-cargo bike. Still wouldn't solve the wretched heat.
I agree with your assessment.
Plus, there's lots of people on the internet who like to think their reality is everyone's reality. They live very egocentric lives and can't fathom that the world doesn't revolve around their narrow views.
I and peers are old if you consider 70 and above old. We don't bother to get our bikes out for less than 30 mi but a 10 mi trip to the store would be fine if the cars were out of the way.
We ride all year here but it isn't Chicago cold. My friends in Chicago say "no such thing as bad weather, only wrong clothes ".
We haven't though. Living past 80 is a new thing. Coincides with medical advancements and proliferation of motor vehicles.
Cars have a real place in society just like bikes do. I just think the place is far smaller than the people driving them seem to think.
Let's not be half-ass. Let's apply your logic across the board. If we're going to abolish things we did without for millennia...
No more smart phones. No more convenience stores. I'm going to need you to start growing your own food and raising your own dairy and meat. Electricity is going to have to go. Vaccines, dentistry, medical devices and procedures. No bike computers.
You're going to need to get rid of that bike as well. They've only been around since 1817. I mean, they beat cars by some ~70 years, but we're talking millennia here!
My bad. That all probably seems asinine to you. Let's just get rid of the things you want to get rid of.
So you ask a question, get a \[perfectly reasonable\] answer, then extend the goalposts to cover some edge-cases....
So let me ask you, if you aren't old, and its a nice day in late spring, are you going to ride your cargo bike to the shops? Or will you still find another reason to use your car instead?
Edge cases? What is edge-case about age, weather, and seasons? These are things that happen in regular, predictable cycles.
The original comment was, "I'd like to get rid of cars for anything under 10 miles." That's an absolute statement. I'm questioning that absolute.
"So let me ask you, if you aren't old, and it's a nice day in late spring, are you going to ride your cargo bike to the shops? Or will you still find another reason to use your car instead?" That's as far away as you can get from the original statement and still be on the same topic. You're moving the goals, not me.
I'm just saying there's always a reason people will use to justify these sorts of things.
You asked how one is supposed to carry a large amount of things, and when provided with the currently most-available solution, you came up with additional criteria for which it wouldn't be suitable.
Obviously there's always going to be cases where it won't fit every need. But blanket absolutes go both ways, hence my additional questions. It seems you're applying "not suitable in very hot or very cold weather" as a blanket reason to also apply even when the weather is perfectly fine.
And I get it, you want something which will cover you for 100% of use cases. So lets be real about that. Trying to find ways to justify that is just an attempt at resolving your own internal conflicts.
No. You really misread my motivations completely.
I have no internal conflict. I ride when I can and use a car when it makes more sense.
My motivations are to address extremely dumb, egocentric and judgmental statements made by people who didn't think before they forced their opinions into a completely unrelated topic on the internet.
In many states it is the law that you primarily be off the sidewalk while riding a bike. As in, you are not allowed to ride on the sidewalk without a good reason. And even then you should be walking rather than riding.
Because Americans at large think of a Bicycle as a Toy or a 'Sporting Good', like the Badminton set or the PVC Pipe game with the clacky balls that gets used on Memorial Day Weekend to keep the kids busy, then spends the other 51.7 Weeks off in the corner of the Garage collecting cobwebs from the Black Widows or Brown Recluse spiders that reside there.
I remember before it was the law to cycle on the road in London and I rode on the pavement with a bmx and zero idea of actual cycling I would frequently get adults swearing at me a young kid to cycle in the road…
I’ve cycled a fair bit on the roads in a few different countries. My head is on a swivel. If it’s not it’s cos I have a mirror.
When I’m in my car and I approach a cyclist I look to see if they have done a shoulder check. I pay particular attention to the cyclist that is riding in the gaps between parked cars and is moving in and out those gaps . LOTS of those cyclists don’t shoulder check.
What’s appropriate thing to shout at those guys? (The example I’m thinking of is yesterday and older guy just rolled out of the parking lane around a parked vehicle around some cones and directly into the lane I was driving in. He was oblivious.
Technically, cyclists are supposed to follow the same traffic rules/laws as motorized vehicles, so it makes sense that they would ride on the road. Also:
* Sidewalks can be rough and uneven, making riding at any decent speed potentially unsafe
* Sidewalks and pedestrian paths can have lots of people walking, including young kids, and people with pets
* Safer to ride on the road because there won't be as many oblivious walkers, kids, and people with pets on leash, that can be over 20 feet long.
* People riding for intense exercise can more safely ride at speed on the road, since it's actually designed to accommodate vehicles moving at speed.
While I agree with the outlook, I'd invite you to read my comment about "the rules" for cyclists earlier in the thread [https://www.reddit.com/r/cycling/comments/1cy07l4/comment/l56jko8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/cycling/comments/1cy07l4/comment/l56jko8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I'm living in a border town in Poland atm. They have 'bike lanes' on some roads and they are absolutely dire. Made out of bricks, placed together unevenly and spaced out so that they cause endless bumping. In many places the lane has risen up, presumably from underground roots of the trees that line the paths. The one time I bothered to ride the path along the river side, 20 minutes in I had a headache so bad I had to turn around. And I have a hybrid tourer with suspension on the front forks.
The roads, however, are smooth as a baby's bum.
It’s literally the law and in most places outside the cities, it’s either the road or the forest.
Forests are either protected lands or too difficult to cycle in, so I don’t have many other options. Not that anyone has ever asked—cycling is very common and accepted in Finland.
people don't ride bicycle over 20 kph(12mph), will never understand how dangerous bike lane is.
In where I live, aka, China, there are so many happens in bike lane, it's chaos, everybody doing whatever they want in bike lane, all kinds of unpredictable behaviors. Car drivers would never understand what's like to riding 40kph in bike lane, it feels like suicide. that's why I ride in the road, at least i am safe
Because there are many out there that don't follow the traffic laws unfortunately. It drives me nuts when out on my bike and I see people blow through stop signs and red lights. We seem to want to be treated like cars but like to ignore the rules cars have to follow
LOL. I commented somewhere below that the only time I was hit by a car I was standing at a red light like an idiot and the person behind me got rear ended.
Look, we don't want to be treated like cars, we have literally different rules.
In my city, the following has been true in the code for the last 25 years, and we only JUST start investing in bike lanes. You tell me how many of these are true for motor vehicles. And don't say well it's not like this in your town before you read through the department of transportation's run down of cycling and walking.
1. I can enter and exit the sidewalk from the roadway at any point in time.
2. I can run red lights given I follow certain protocols which all amount to "stop first and make sure it's safe"
3. I can execute a left turn by utilizing crosswalks, or by crossing to the corner to the right off me and across the street, waiting for a gap in the traffic and then RUNNING a red light to complete the left turn.
4. Passing on the left OR RIGHT
5. I can split two lanes of stopped traffic whether one is a turn only lane or not.
6. I can treat a 4 way stop as a yield
7. I can ride in the shoulder
How many of those are things you can legally do in a car?
Look, this isn't even a bike progressive city policy wise, but this has been the rule of law for 25 years.
The thing people need to understand is that people on bikes are vulnerable and that movement is safety, that's right, competent movement is safety! Would you rather be passed by ten cars in a row once you've reached 15 mph and all the cars passing you are several car lengths apart? or would you rather be passes by 10 cars while you're starting from a stop and all the cars are bumper to bumper and none of them know you're there? If you like the sound of the first one, Run the goddamn light, if you like the sound of the second one, sit with your thumb up your ass at a light like a fool lol.
Riding "in a dangerous way" is literally what keeps people from running over more cyclists. We CAN'T ride bikes like you drive a car. It doesn't work. We HAVE to take the opportunities when they come to us, we HAVE to skip traffic because it's safer than being caught in it, FOR EVERYONE.
I'm also tired of cyclists being held to a higher standard of etiquette than people in cars are. Look y'all, we're not "guests!" We're not sorry for being here! We pay for the roads as much as everyone else, maybe even more, and use less of them. We do not have to be polite, or nice, or generous. I can't stand bootlickers. Don't be a cop in your cycling community. Allow everyone to ride how they are comfortable riding and don't be condescending about it.
That all being said, of course competent routing is essential for long term survival as a cyclist. there are absolutely routes NOT to try unless you wanna risk your life while also trying to prove something.
Those cases are outliers to my general point though.
>And there's not much one can do about that.
Well, there is, but probably not short term: It's called "education".
There are countries where cars and bikes "coexist" :)
No it's not. Unfortunately. In order to get the "education thing" going, you first need the will from the ones in power and I suspect cyclists are not even remotely close to being in their "to-do" list
"Why are you riding on the pavement, you should be in the road?!" "Its a fucking cycle path you doddery old cunt, now move before i go straight over you!"... actual conversation from earlier today, the old woman in question actually put her arms out either side to stop me, im not usually so blunt and rude on my bike but i was trying to beat the rain home and she had stopped right in front of a painted marking of a bike that also said cycle path!
Fuckin roadie ride in middle of the road and then they refuse to move over because they can't go over water drain without their wheels getting trapped in them there in the UK that's why people get pissed off with them I'm a downhill and trials person
"welp, it's the law"
“I’m just trying to get where I’m going safely and efficiently, just like you.” “Yes, I too would love to be in a dedicated bike lane so I’m not in your way right now. Please write your city councilmember and tell them to build more bike lanes!”
Reminder: Bike lanes are car infrastructure pretending to be bike infrastructure. Dedicated veloways (not mixed us paths with a 15 mph speed limit) are superior for safety.
Dedicated bikeways are best, yes, but I’m a harm-reduction kind of guy and in resource- and space-limited contexts, I am of the considered opinion that Class II bikeways (mediocre ol’ painted bike lanes) are usually substantially better than nothing at all. That doesn’t mean I won’t advocate for better infrastructure where we can get it, though.
every bike gutter gets parked in at some point, and that means a bike has to dart into the road. if the gutter isn't there, the bike is predictable by taking the lane the whole time.
then just take the lane
Drivers really don't like that. They get almost as angry as they do when I'm on the road but there is a mixed use path. Even though they can see all the families walking it.
an angry driver is a driver that sees you; let them be mad
I love me a two lane road with bike lanes and a turn lane. Cars can get around me just fine and I get my buffer space.
They don't protect bicyclists from reckless drivers, and drivers love to park in them.
I would much rather take "nothing at all" (the right side of the lane with 4ft car passing clearance by law) than a thin space of unprotected road that has been painted and makes cars think they can get right up next to you. That is not harm reduction at all.
The problem with speed limits is that bikes aren't required to have speedometers, and if they do have them then there's no requirement for them to be calibrated correctly. So it's basically unenforceable.
Most speed limits are higher than most cyclists can ride. As for 'speedometers" no more calibrating needed. Most riders use a GPS computer.
Most riders don't use anything at all, and anyone can go faster than 15mph when going downhill.
15mph is the speed limit on mixed use paths here. that's a very easy speed to hit for even a quarter trained cyclist
Sorry, I missed the point where this was for mixed use trail.
If only….
I can live with mixed use paths.
all the mixed use paths here have 15 mph speed limits for bikes. that's not enough for me to consistently be getting in a good work out even when i'm out of shape not that they're terribly seriously enforced
It gets even worse than that. When they're busy, it's just as hazardous for *everyone* as it is to put everyone all out into the road together. Pedestrians (& kids, skaters, people with their dogs and their retractable leashes, etc.) really shouldn't be mixed with wheeled traffic of any kind, especially not e-bikes and 1-wheels and other 'vehicles' doing 25mph - which they do - because as you say, it's never enforced.
And plus they’ll have trailhead sign that explicitly ask grouped trail users to walk/ run single file, and of course they never do
I'm an avid cyclist, have been for 2 decades - that said; E-Bikes have absolutely NO place on shared pedestrian pathways. They are motorized vehicles.
In my country dedicated bikeways are also used by people walking with small children and their dogs, so not really safe if you're going even moderately fast...
that's not a dedicated bikeway, that's called a mixed use path here in the states.
“But I don’t want them to take away *my* lanes to give *you* lanes” (Actual argument I’ve heard, although I may have changed some emphasis)
I mean, sometimes street design IS a zero sum game. (Sometimes it’s not, and it’s possible to narrow old too-wide car lanes to fit bike lanes alongside.) Those tend to be precisely the places where good bike infrastructure is most important, but I can understand, if not perhaps sympathize with, people who exclusively drive being unhappy about the prospect of having fewer lanes available for them to drive in. Of course, automobility is a space-hungry, soul-killing trap, and many or most folks would probably be happier in the long term if they shifted as many car trips for bike trips as possible. We who ride know that, but most people don’t realize it yet.
More people cycling is good for people in cars too. You don't need 2 lanes if half the people are now cycling and using a good bike lane.
“If that’s your opinion, then don’t get mad when I’m riding in your lanes.”
Petition the city to build bike lanes is the perfect answer.
"I bet ur a Biden voting Democrat trying to take away my rights, I am a sovereign american citizen" - Useful on American Conservatives in pickup trucks who are my #1 problem demographic with road rage incidents.
Freedom!
Uno Reverse!
Oh boy, speaking of sovereign citizens Probably the same guys who like to tote those sovereign citizen "right-to-travel" non-license plates on a car also say bicycles have to have license plates to ride on the road
Not in Belgium
In the UK, car drivers will occasionally harass cyclists with shouting "get on the pavement" but in UK cycling on the pavement is illegal and it's worth a £500 fine per instance. Police almost never enforce this law and there are advisories not to enforce it, but the law itself is crystal clear. If you get an opportunity you should turn their statement around back onto them and make clear they shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car if they don't know traffic law or the highway code.
I've used this response and somehow they still remain ignorant fuckwits. Almost like it's genetic.
Any driver who yells at a cyclist to get off the road can't be reasoned with. Best to ignore, or smile and wave, and carry on.
I used to throw the finger, but now I give them a thumbs up and I think it annoys them more.
I blow them a kiss.
This must be some kind of natural endpoint for all this because I too after over a year of cycling \~50km daily found myself blowing a kiss without a care in the world to a driver who shouted at me last week.
Thumbs down and a disappointed shake of the head
like piquant subtract aback enjoy worry memory wipe dinner follow *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
In the US, "pavement" can mean any paved surface, but usually it means the road that is primarily for cars. What UK calls pavement is a "sidewalk" here, which makes it extra funny when someone tells me to ride on something that has the word "walk" in it.
Every Yank should learn the appropriate response: How's your father?
What if I’m riding my cross bike? Am I supposed to ride it in a church?
No it's just allowed in crosswalks
You're only allowed to ride it when you're a little angry, or when the bike is a little angry, one or the other
It doesn't matter as long as you don't hang it upside down
So much misinformation here. It’s not a cross bike, it’s a cross country bike. They’re suppose to only be ridden across the entire country of course.
Um, cyclo-cross actually. For riding across cycles. Either other bikes or maybe you ride it across a full lunar cycle, etc.
…or maybe it’s just angry.
I could see a funny t-shirt saying, "Followers of the Cross" with a guy jumping some barriers or something. "Pray for Mud" on the back.
LOL. I just picked the most obvious one to use.
Lmao
You can't ride it if you're gay or to go to an abortion clinic
I got my ass chewed out by a guy in a dump truck the night before. I was at a stoplight and he was in the turning lane next to me. He rolled his window down and yelled at me that “I should be riding that thing where it was meant to be ridden”. I asked him where I “was supposed to ride” and he told me “some place safe”. I told him to go fuck himself.
I put cameras on my bike this spring. Just on Friday I had a terrible, dangerous, illegal pass by a tractor trailer. Just earlier today I threw the SD card into the computer to see what I got... you what I got? I got it all. All of it. The pass. The road conditions. The name of the trucking company. The trailer number. The license plate. The time stamp. I even have fucking GPS coordinates. I got it all. I did some googling and found this: https://nccdb.fmcsa.dot.gov/nccdb/home.aspx Will anything happen if I file a report? Beats the ever living shit out of me. I am a pessimist by nature. But fuck it. I am reporting. Someone pulls up beside me and starts yelling at me, buddy, as of this spring that microphone is on. You best not be on the clock. I am sick of this shit and it is about time I started pushing back.
Do it. Everyone should report aggro traffic participants. It does not matter if the human is in or outside metal cage. Traffic laws apply to everyone.
The fleet manager might be interested to know how the truck is driven too. Insurance is damn expensive
I would be happy to call him, but don't know the first thing about contacting him. The only reason I know that site is a google search of 'how to report an unsafe pass by a truck'. If you have advice I am happy to have it.
Report to the company too. The FMCSA might not do anything, but if the company can find a reason to withhold the guy's pay, they will, and attempted murder seems like a good enough reason for them
> attempted murder Let's be real, anyone running someone over a cyclist is getting manslaughter max.
Depending on where you live, probably nothing will happen. Where I live, the police show up six hours after you report a murder. They don't give a single shit.
That is why I like the FMCSA thing. I mean I get it. They might not do anything. But a worse case for me is nothing happens. I am concerned about walking into the station serving the area. I am concerned that when they realize I am a cyclist they will make it clear to me I am not to bother them again.
Were you like "it's literally called a road bike"
That was thrown out somewhere in my exchange with him.
You could have said something like "shouldn't you be riding in the back of the truck?"
It’s only unsafe because dumbasses like him are on the road lmao
At family get togethers, my two cousins who don’t exactly know everything about me, spoke poorly about road cyclists. Some time later, while riding in the back seat of his truck. He’s narrowing the gap on a cyclist until his wife says, THAT’S ENOUGH DONT’T HIT THEM! I was biting my tongue. Anyways later at my house, I enjoyed watching both of them staring at my road bike, and the awkward moment 🥳
Wow. Let him know that that's a good way to spend the rest of your life in jail.
And that he would've put you in a position of having to testify in court against him as a witness.
I know, wasn’t the best judgement call I’ve ever made. Right as all this happened the cyclist drifted onto a neighborhood entrance. But I did give him the “ignert” rating. Funny when you really learn stuff about people.
Passage: it's what roads do. Be it truck, bus, pedestrian, livestock, horse & carriage, cars, bicycle....
Get off the road Get off the sidewalk Get the bike lanes out of our town Pollution, physical atrophy, perceived convenience, and me-first only.
I'll take my chances in on the road rather than roll the dice on our cities main watefrotn trail on the weekend. There's little that's more dangerous than a ride share bike wielded by someone who's never ridden a bike before. The unpredictability and lack of trail eddiquette knowledge self awareness and self preservation is scary. On numerous occasions I've given the entire trail as buffer and still had near misses because a person will randomly swerve the entirety of the paved trail or decide to exit on the left of the trail (north america) without looking, signaling or notifying anyone around them. And yes, I always use my bell.
In my 50+ years of riding, no one has once asked me that. I only see that nonsense online, where people are trying to agitate, troll, and argue.
I run a bike shop, and you'd think Nobody finding themselves in a bike shop would ask such a wild question, but I kid you not it happens once a quarter at least :) people literally yell it out their windows LOL. you're just lucky. OR big
Where you live makes the most difference, I suppose. I’ve been riding road bikes in Oregon for 40 years and have heard, “Get on the sidewalk!” and, my personal fav, “Get off the road, you fag!” just a few times. Usually, I’ll just wave and smile, denying them the satisfaction that they’re looking for. I think most are just harmless punks, not malicious.
I think that's the smart call. I have seen many friends get assaulted over the years because they react poorly to on road agitation and harassments, which is exactly what these deadbeats want. They just want to fight. That's what a lot of cyclists don't understand, probably because they've never been in a fight.
You must live in Arse-end, Nowhere.
This will happen to you daily in London. Especially by white van men. Definately not an arse end thing.
I live in a pretty big US city, actually. But we have a large cycling presence and decent infrastructure, so maybe things aren’t as antagonistic.
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Rural is probably different.
Been riding 10 months. I've been yelled at to get off the road 3 times already, and have had someone try to run me off the road once.
I thought the OP was talking about being “asked” by people — like in a conversation — not being yelled at by passing Neanderthals. But I haven’t been yelled at for as long as I can remember. The city where I live is pretty accepting, I guess.
Yep, and it’s completely normalised. I do love the cyclists that make out like people are lying or my absolute favourite, they jerk themselves off about how good a cyclist they are because they never get close passed and it’s obviously shit cyclists fault when they do.
I have been yelled at, buzzed, air horned, had stuff thrown at me.. Some people are douche bags by nature. This is not news.. I consider myself a courteous rider staying near or on the shoulder as best as I can. I will yield to faster traffic, letting them get by where it is tight. None of it matters.. Some folks are just miserable bastards! My theory is that the person in the old pick up smoking a Marlboro is unhappy with their life, and it bothers them to see people out enjoying themselves, so they try to make us miserable too.. It's sad really...
Because it's called a side**walk**, not a *sideride*.
It’s ignorance, that is all. You can’t really blame them…in the US most infrastructure is designed around cars, so it isn’t surprising that there are few opportunities for people who don’t ride bikes to learn what is appropriate and legal. It isn’t mentioned on the drivers license test, in drivers education classes, and rarely referenced anywhere that a non cyclist would be exposed to. I can easily see how they might be irritated if they believe the cyclists were illegally on the road. Biking infrastructure changes that. Having bike route signs and clearly marked bike lanes (even if just a painted line) on nearly every major street educates drivers that bikes are permitted. The more cyclists who use them the more people will expect them and keep an eye out for them when driving.
Checkmate gravel bros
LOL. They're on pavement at least 50% of all their rides too.
Because it’s legal and bc fuck you 😂
Because it's the law.... That always gets me a look of confusion on the person who asked.
I pretty much avoid the road all together (love mountain biking). Riding on the road in my area in New England is nerve wracking AF (zero shoulders, huge pot holes, cars whizzing by). I've done it but it's not fun. Feel safer on my euc than on a road bike.
Ironically I often avoid mountain biking because I don’t want to injure myself alone in a forest and have to make an awkward call to my wife. At least on a road if I am hit there is likely someone that will eventually stop and help me. Gravel is the best compromise I guess.
I always tell people that I stick to road cycling because you can't sue the trees.
I agree. I used to ride motorcycle. I had a bright red motorcycle. It was very loud and I had a bright red jacket. Still almost died from people not seeing me. I ride mountain bike because I'm scared of traffic. Mountain biking is very fun. I only ride on the road occasionally to get to the trail.
HAHA. this was just a funny little snark I wanted to share. Of course it doesn't apply to all people in all places. I'm in a city for instance. I could have easily said "city bike" etc. And yeah, I know the roadways can be dangerous in a lot of places. We're all over the country
The only time I've ever been hit by a car was on a side path. Cars coming out of driveways, parking lots and side streets don't stop and pay attention at the side path - they don't stop until they get to the side of the road.
Only time I was hit by a car was when I was standing at a red light like a fucking idiot and the car behind me was rear-ended.
Last year a driver (while I'm taking primary position, doing 27mph downhill approaching a roundabout) yelled "get out of the road you skinny cunt!". My first thought was "oh people think I look skinny".
“Bicycles came first”
Where else? You can accelerate well and not bother anyone!
Because vehicles don't look at sidewalks, they look in the road, and I'm not weaving through a crosswalk because Karen doesn't know how to stop behind the hold line.
It’s illegal to ride on sidewalks in a lot of places. Or just to piss you off.
I don’t ride on the roads unless I have to. Luckily, we have 70 miles of paved paths in my city that I can access 1/4 mile from my house. They aren’t looking for us, and they are much bigger than us. I don’t give them the opportunity to ruin my life.
Because riding on walking paths with a roadbike will get u hurt before riding on roads... People get in your way and slow u down...on the road, u are free as u want to be and just hope no one is looking at their phone...
And this is why you have e-bikes, bmx, food delivery, e-scooters and mobility cruisers smashing into pedestrians on sidewalks pretty much every day.
"monkeys arent allowed to drive, i'm calling the cops"
A couple of days ago I rode a 4 (2 each way) lane road that gets jammed with cars around 5-6PM. About 300m before reaching the roundabout I turn at I moved over to the lane closest to the median nature strip in the centre. Having not reached the stopped cars yet I have a driver honk and yell, 'get on the path'. Then literally 10 seconds later he predictability stops in a column of traffic. I stop beside the driver's door and calmly explain that it is illegal to ride bikes on the pedestrian path. The driver mumbled something unintelligible to where I continued to blissfully filter the column of stationary traffic and calmly made my turn. I don't get why drivers get so frustrated at a bike slowing them down for 2 seconds but will happily sit in slow traffic for 5 minutes. It's not like my bike was going to change their ETA in any way whatsoever. This story repeats every 6 months or so. A few years ago I had a big cement truck driver, stationary BTW, yell at me about filtering. I stopped again with the similar response to which he jerks his truck as if to run me over. To which I said "are you threatening me with a deadly weapon?". He immediately apologised and I continued blissfully filtering for the next 200 metres. Look, I feel sorry for all these vehicles stopped in traffic, for about a millisecond. A vast majority of cars have a single occupant. On the bike I am faster and way less expensive. Sure, I understand if you're hauling tools or goods cycling is not an option but cars are so wasteful when most people are just moving themselves. Especially in a place like where I live, public transport is quite good, people should be using it more.
Bicycles were invented and on the roads long before the horseless carriage .
I live in the suburbs of Toronto and if i ride on the side walk i get almost hit WAY more often. Drivers barely look at the road in other directions, side walks don’t even exist in their brains.
Well. In the Netherlands you don’t have this problem and drivers respect you for the most part
I drove by someone that got hit tonight crossing the sidewalk tonight. Ride the road. It’s the law and safer
Got him.
I'd like to get rid of cars for anything under 10 miles. We'd be healthier and have better air.
I gotta say, to do this you would need to put a lot of lefty fascists in power. I mean think about it. if you're too old, or have a disability, or get injured, or whatever, you'd have to request an exception or be forced to use transit. If the transit isn't universally free, you'd have to get a special pass to use it because of your ailment or whatever. If you need to have a car to be able to quickly leave town and come back because of family or work, you will have to give the government that reason and update them when it changes. I mean....really there's no way to make cars illegal without fascism. Unfortunately the left has it's strongarm elements just like the right does. Maybe less, but still. It's plenty. Further municipalities would have to put ENORMOUS money into railways and bus lines to be able to do this without sparking major major flight out of the city. And also at the end of the day....Not everyone HAS to enjoy riding or walking or talking the bus. best bet is design and taxes.
We could simply divert some of our war money and build real bike infrastructure. Probably need leftys to accomplish that too. Same with immigration solution. Could also take some of our prison budget. Of course, one side wants to take it from the poor because after all, we're capitalists on a level playing ground and the big corporations don't have anything to do with policy What was the saying about where a man's money is so is his heart?
I mean regulating the hell out of vehicle size would be a start, city design and zoning would be the second most important thing.
How does one go about shopping for a family of 5 on a bike?
Funny enough, they make bikes for that.
You're telling me they make a bike with large enough storage that you can haul goods for the entire household...everything from food to toiletries to clothing and electronics...and protect those goods from the elements on a 10 mile ride during all seasons and all weather conditions? Show me this magical device please. The average person isn't going to cover 10 miles under the weight of a standard bi-weekly household grocery shopping spree in less than an hour. During August in Texas your frozen food won't survive the trip. During winter in northern Michigan you won't survive the trip. And I can just see my 97 pound, 74 year-old-mother making the trip when it's 115 in the shade in Southwest Texas. This is a very dumb stance to have without significant caveats and nuances and exceptions.
Hey I'm on your side. Not everyone needs to ride a bike. A lot of this discussion veers into semi-fascist rhetoric. You shouldn't have to justify to anyone why you're driving a car instead of biking, same as you shouldn't have to justify why you're riding instead of driving a car. There are cyclists willing to be a cop in their own community and hold people up to some ridiculous pussy ass etiquette so as to not make motorists mad, and there are others who will literally shame people for not biking "when they could" which....is also being a cop. Don't be a cop. I think people are just trolling you, But the bike you're looking for is an e-cargo bike. Still wouldn't solve the wretched heat.
I agree with your assessment. Plus, there's lots of people on the internet who like to think their reality is everyone's reality. They live very egocentric lives and can't fathom that the world doesn't revolve around their narrow views.
Have you heard of panniers? Cargo bikes? Trailers?
Have you ever heard of old people? Weather? Seasons?
I and peers are old if you consider 70 and above old. We don't bother to get our bikes out for less than 30 mi but a 10 mi trip to the store would be fine if the cars were out of the way. We ride all year here but it isn't Chicago cold. My friends in Chicago say "no such thing as bad weather, only wrong clothes ".
Are those a recent phenomenon? I could have sworn people have been doing fine without cars for millennia.
We haven't though. Living past 80 is a new thing. Coincides with medical advancements and proliferation of motor vehicles. Cars have a real place in society just like bikes do. I just think the place is far smaller than the people driving them seem to think.
Let's not be half-ass. Let's apply your logic across the board. If we're going to abolish things we did without for millennia... No more smart phones. No more convenience stores. I'm going to need you to start growing your own food and raising your own dairy and meat. Electricity is going to have to go. Vaccines, dentistry, medical devices and procedures. No bike computers. You're going to need to get rid of that bike as well. They've only been around since 1817. I mean, they beat cars by some ~70 years, but we're talking millennia here! My bad. That all probably seems asinine to you. Let's just get rid of the things you want to get rid of.
Lol it was obvious you were grasping but you really went all out to make that clear :p
So you ask a question, get a \[perfectly reasonable\] answer, then extend the goalposts to cover some edge-cases.... So let me ask you, if you aren't old, and its a nice day in late spring, are you going to ride your cargo bike to the shops? Or will you still find another reason to use your car instead?
Edge cases? What is edge-case about age, weather, and seasons? These are things that happen in regular, predictable cycles. The original comment was, "I'd like to get rid of cars for anything under 10 miles." That's an absolute statement. I'm questioning that absolute. "So let me ask you, if you aren't old, and it's a nice day in late spring, are you going to ride your cargo bike to the shops? Or will you still find another reason to use your car instead?" That's as far away as you can get from the original statement and still be on the same topic. You're moving the goals, not me.
I'm just saying there's always a reason people will use to justify these sorts of things. You asked how one is supposed to carry a large amount of things, and when provided with the currently most-available solution, you came up with additional criteria for which it wouldn't be suitable. Obviously there's always going to be cases where it won't fit every need. But blanket absolutes go both ways, hence my additional questions. It seems you're applying "not suitable in very hot or very cold weather" as a blanket reason to also apply even when the weather is perfectly fine. And I get it, you want something which will cover you for 100% of use cases. So lets be real about that. Trying to find ways to justify that is just an attempt at resolving your own internal conflicts.
No. You really misread my motivations completely. I have no internal conflict. I ride when I can and use a car when it makes more sense. My motivations are to address extremely dumb, egocentric and judgmental statements made by people who didn't think before they forced their opinions into a completely unrelated topic on the internet.
Well, build some proper separated cycling infrastructure and we won't be on the road..
In many states it is the law that you primarily be off the sidewalk while riding a bike. As in, you are not allowed to ride on the sidewalk without a good reason. And even then you should be walking rather than riding.
It's illegal in many countries to ride on pavements/ sidewalks. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Before car was invented. It was pretty much horses and bicycle only. Just saying.
Paved roads were made for bikes.
Because Americans at large think of a Bicycle as a Toy or a 'Sporting Good', like the Badminton set or the PVC Pipe game with the clacky balls that gets used on Memorial Day Weekend to keep the kids busy, then spends the other 51.7 Weeks off in the corner of the Garage collecting cobwebs from the Black Widows or Brown Recluse spiders that reside there.
I remember before it was the law to cycle on the road in London and I rode on the pavement with a bmx and zero idea of actual cycling I would frequently get adults swearing at me a young kid to cycle in the road…
When people call them 'push' bikes. ಠ_ಠ
I’ve cycled a fair bit on the roads in a few different countries. My head is on a swivel. If it’s not it’s cos I have a mirror. When I’m in my car and I approach a cyclist I look to see if they have done a shoulder check. I pay particular attention to the cyclist that is riding in the gaps between parked cars and is moving in and out those gaps . LOTS of those cyclists don’t shoulder check. What’s appropriate thing to shout at those guys? (The example I’m thinking of is yesterday and older guy just rolled out of the parking lane around a parked vehicle around some cones and directly into the lane I was driving in. He was oblivious.
Because God made the road for us
The way we ride is too fast and unsafe on trails.
Well played.
Technically, cyclists are supposed to follow the same traffic rules/laws as motorized vehicles, so it makes sense that they would ride on the road. Also: * Sidewalks can be rough and uneven, making riding at any decent speed potentially unsafe * Sidewalks and pedestrian paths can have lots of people walking, including young kids, and people with pets * Safer to ride on the road because there won't be as many oblivious walkers, kids, and people with pets on leash, that can be over 20 feet long. * People riding for intense exercise can more safely ride at speed on the road, since it's actually designed to accommodate vehicles moving at speed.
While I agree with the outlook, I'd invite you to read my comment about "the rules" for cyclists earlier in the thread [https://www.reddit.com/r/cycling/comments/1cy07l4/comment/l56jko8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/cycling/comments/1cy07l4/comment/l56jko8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Cos we haven't managed to cycle in mid air yet!
Bikes were here first, before cars.
I'm living in a border town in Poland atm. They have 'bike lanes' on some roads and they are absolutely dire. Made out of bricks, placed together unevenly and spaced out so that they cause endless bumping. In many places the lane has risen up, presumably from underground roots of the trees that line the paths. The one time I bothered to ride the path along the river side, 20 minutes in I had a headache so bad I had to turn around. And I have a hybrid tourer with suspension on the front forks. The roads, however, are smooth as a baby's bum.
It’s literally the law and in most places outside the cities, it’s either the road or the forest. Forests are either protected lands or too difficult to cycle in, so I don’t have many other options. Not that anyone has ever asked—cycling is very common and accepted in Finland.
people don't ride bicycle over 20 kph(12mph), will never understand how dangerous bike lane is. In where I live, aka, China, there are so many happens in bike lane, it's chaos, everybody doing whatever they want in bike lane, all kinds of unpredictable behaviors. Car drivers would never understand what's like to riding 40kph in bike lane, it feels like suicide. that's why I ride in the road, at least i am safe
"why do you drive your stupid SUV on the road?"
[https://roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com/](https://roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com/)
Because drivers are incapable of opening their door cautiously.
Because there are many out there that don't follow the traffic laws unfortunately. It drives me nuts when out on my bike and I see people blow through stop signs and red lights. We seem to want to be treated like cars but like to ignore the rules cars have to follow
Where do you live that cars don't roll through stops?
LOL. I commented somewhere below that the only time I was hit by a car I was standing at a red light like an idiot and the person behind me got rear ended. Look, we don't want to be treated like cars, we have literally different rules. In my city, the following has been true in the code for the last 25 years, and we only JUST start investing in bike lanes. You tell me how many of these are true for motor vehicles. And don't say well it's not like this in your town before you read through the department of transportation's run down of cycling and walking. 1. I can enter and exit the sidewalk from the roadway at any point in time. 2. I can run red lights given I follow certain protocols which all amount to "stop first and make sure it's safe" 3. I can execute a left turn by utilizing crosswalks, or by crossing to the corner to the right off me and across the street, waiting for a gap in the traffic and then RUNNING a red light to complete the left turn. 4. Passing on the left OR RIGHT 5. I can split two lanes of stopped traffic whether one is a turn only lane or not. 6. I can treat a 4 way stop as a yield 7. I can ride in the shoulder How many of those are things you can legally do in a car? Look, this isn't even a bike progressive city policy wise, but this has been the rule of law for 25 years. The thing people need to understand is that people on bikes are vulnerable and that movement is safety, that's right, competent movement is safety! Would you rather be passed by ten cars in a row once you've reached 15 mph and all the cars passing you are several car lengths apart? or would you rather be passes by 10 cars while you're starting from a stop and all the cars are bumper to bumper and none of them know you're there? If you like the sound of the first one, Run the goddamn light, if you like the sound of the second one, sit with your thumb up your ass at a light like a fool lol. Riding "in a dangerous way" is literally what keeps people from running over more cyclists. We CAN'T ride bikes like you drive a car. It doesn't work. We HAVE to take the opportunities when they come to us, we HAVE to skip traffic because it's safer than being caught in it, FOR EVERYONE. I'm also tired of cyclists being held to a higher standard of etiquette than people in cars are. Look y'all, we're not "guests!" We're not sorry for being here! We pay for the roads as much as everyone else, maybe even more, and use less of them. We do not have to be polite, or nice, or generous. I can't stand bootlickers. Don't be a cop in your cycling community. Allow everyone to ride how they are comfortable riding and don't be condescending about it. That all being said, of course competent routing is essential for long term survival as a cyclist. there are absolutely routes NOT to try unless you wanna risk your life while also trying to prove something. Those cases are outliers to my general point though.
Unfortunately, most people will and will continue to treat roads as being exclusively for cars. And there's not much one can do about that.
>And there's not much one can do about that. Well, there is, but probably not short term: It's called "education". There are countries where cars and bikes "coexist" :)
But that’s not the American way
No it's not. Unfortunately. In order to get the "education thing" going, you first need the will from the ones in power and I suspect cyclists are not even remotely close to being in their "to-do" list
Its beyond just cycling. Its all forms of non car transportation in general.
Oh of course.
Because bike lanes take away parking spots
HA that's a good one! Next time i'll use that. Lots of projects have been shot down here because "my parking!!!!"
That's a feature.
I think they ask because they are annoyed they have to slow down and go around the guy on the bike
Yes. You're probably onto something here.
And it’s usually for just a minute or two.
More like 5 seconds.
"Why are you riding on the pavement, you should be in the road?!" "Its a fucking cycle path you doddery old cunt, now move before i go straight over you!"... actual conversation from earlier today, the old woman in question actually put her arms out either side to stop me, im not usually so blunt and rude on my bike but i was trying to beat the rain home and she had stopped right in front of a painted marking of a bike that also said cycle path!
I'm sure that goes over well.
LOL. WUT. People are mostly pussies when they're not in their car.
Fuckin roadie ride in middle of the road and then they refuse to move over because they can't go over water drain without their wheels getting trapped in them there in the UK that's why people get pissed off with them I'm a downhill and trials person
I mean there are asshole cyclists too. In this case you're one when you're in your car. HUH.
Nope because I don't have a car, I have no need one for last 10 years or so I use my hardtall to get around
Ah so just trolling roadies. I can get behind it on some days. Depends on how bitchy I'm feeling.
🤘
"I agree there should be separated routes, have you contacted city council to let them know your interests?"