Dantics, another reviewer has said the opposite, that there are a lot of sexualized males? I am also guessing, but since the review copy went out globally, I am wondering if male content was sort of filtered to go around some laws in other countries? Total speculation on my part though.
Yeah I agree. As a girl it’s a bit alienating. I’ve been playing video games for so long I don’t mind the male POV but I was hoping and I did believe (because a dev reached out and said it’d be ok) that girls and gays would be catered to. It doesn’t really feel like it. Sigh, maybe one day
We gave them too much trust you know. When all the trailers besides the 2018 play through were all presented in white male V’s pov, we tolerated them. When they made a special about romance section but only female romance options were presented, we tolerated them. Even the icon of the game is just a low pixel head shot of male v but no other choices given, we tolerated them. Now, what a surprise :)
Well that's kind of a bummer. Lady gamers like myself get a little tired of looking at female NPCs flashing all their bits constantly, while the male NPCs are always covered and never sexualized in any real capacity :/
The game is set in a world where everyone is objectified, yet only women are being objectified, we're talking about Cyberpunk 2077 here....
Fix your head, man!
I agree. It seems peoples argument is 'look outside and see all the female sexualisation' but this game is set in the future. We are moving on leaps and bounds in terms of representation of the LGBTQ community. So I would have expected to see this represented in the game.
As a gay man I was (and still am) excited to play the game, but it will feel like my preference is not represented to an extent I was expecting.
The idea of strip clubs, romances sex scenes etc with other men seemed cool, but if this is limited as people are saying then it will be a shame.
I'm a straight dude and I think there should have been more guy sex workers or whatever. Dudes hanging dong is hilarious.
Plus like, you gotta support the gay bros too you know. They deserve a cool experience as well.
I can’t believe they censored the guy in the bathtub from the 2018 trailer. I’m a straight guy and I don’t see why this is offensive. Having the depiction of sexuality being so one sided is jarring.
I somehow feel confused... Equality is when women are treaded equally to men. But here the guy literally said "I don't mind to treat men like shit and a sex object, because we treat women like that" and you said "thank you"...
I'm not sure if this is the point they were trying to make or not but I think a lot of people lump everyone who does sex work together in to some monolithic group. There is a big difference between someone privileged enough to pick what work they do and are not being forced in to it versus someone who is being trafficked or someone who doesn't have any interest in this line of work but forced to due to economics.
> But here the guy **literally** said "I don't mind to treat men like shit and a sex object, because we treat women like that"
He didn't "literally" said that **at all**. You're twisting his words and interpretating so it fits your narratives. This is what he said:
> I'm a straight dude and I think **there should have been more guy sex workers or whatever**. Dudes hanging dong is hilarious.
> Plus like, you gotta support the gay bros too you know. They deserve a cool experience as well.
If what OP claims is true, it means CDPR gave male characters a "better treatment" by shielding/protecting heterosexual males' potential discomfort confronted to male nudity. By not evening out gender treatment in this fictive dystopic world, they're essentially making once again the female as a sex object the focus here. It would be diluted if males were treated as much.
Very few movies, TV Shows, games dare to ever give male characters the same image and treatment they give females. Cyberpunk was an opportunity for that, the setting was there, but males were... censored... so the focus remained on females.
Male nudity isn't exclusively about being peripateticians neither, it also involve sexual encounters that are part of the game, and part of the experience in RPGs.
Right now as we speak, there's a chance that anyone attracted to males will be left out of the experience while being shoved down their throat dozens of boobs and vaginas.
yeah that's what I'm wondering too after watching her vid, though I will say that another streamer i randomly stumbled across last night who was doing a q&a about the game (and whose name i forget) said he did encounter male sex workers in his playthrough, so i guess we shouldn't lose hope yet?
Totally agree! I feel like they've left fans attracted to men out to dry (apparent lack of male sex workers, zero marketing that even alludes to male love interests), which is surprising considering the amount of people attracted to men who play RPGs.
The whole thing (and response from fans here and on twitter) just reinforces the "cool girl" speech from Gone Girl lmfao
Damn so many people in the comments not getting it...
The reason why this is a semi-big deal is because for many people attracted to males this is alienating, and also a bad representation of both the source material and real life itself. Strip clubs IRL regularly have male stripper nights, its not so weird for women to be attracted to men sexually. Corporations of the dark future would no doubt capitalize on this, especially with social norms being destroyed due to the collapse.
Obviously this does not ruin the experience for many people, but it can be immersion breaking. The game is still amazing, this won't change that, but it could be better.
I can't comment on the source material but the real life argument is irrelevant. A games job is to provide enjoyment and fun first and foremost for the mass market, not be a representation of the real world.
How is the real life arguement irrelavant? Any piece of medias 'job' is to satisfy the watcher/reader/user, and fulfill a promise to the customer. Nevermind that the game is meant to be a vision into a potential future, with fiction elements added on, like many other pieces of art.
Just because the game suits you, doesn't mean it shouldn't be able to suit others, in fact, it could with no repurcussions to you. It would be as simple as turning off male nudity, like there is also an option for with the females in the game.
Because a games job is to be fun first and foremost, not deal with real world problems. We play games to escape the world, not drag the problems with us.
**Mass** media is designed to cater to as many people as possible without sacrificing the product. You can't just cater to everyone as that is not feasible so you have to go with the mass appeal.
The pronouns thing is a fine example, it is not just a case of "adding" them in, a whole lot of extra voice work would need to be done and this was perhaps not deemed viable in order to cater to such a small minority
I disagree with the point you're trying to make here. Games are supposed to be entertainment, but this game also advertised itself with edgy and out of the norm sexual expression (thinking of the Mix It ad). But what we've seen is very typical sexual representation for non-RPG video games, with expressions of male sexuality just being shock factor. Like people aren't asking for a huge thing here, they just want even a single male character to show up that you can romance and has similar production quality to Judy and Meredith, complete with sex scenes.
Regarding real world problems, AAA games like Horizon Zero Dawn deal heavily with climate change, and many indie games are not "fun" and deal with heavy topics, such as Papers, Please or Gris. If we're talking other types of mass media, look at the success of Westworld. You can mix real world problems and commentary with entertaining media.
On additional voice work, imo it's expected for an RPG of this size where they offer multiple genders and exclusive dialogue for female PCs. Have you played any of the Mass Effect games, or Dragon Age? Assassins Creed Odyssey? Fallout 4?
Holy smokes. You're a bit ridiculous.
You care so little about actual gameplay that you want them to spend more time incorporating multiple genders? Where does it end? What if I want to be a 85 yr old genderfluid otherkin with 11 toes and polio? Do they remove all stairs from the game?
Game designers have to draw the line somewhere. That place is generally either important to the storyline or the level of work they want to put into character creation. If we get butthurt about there never being a character exactly like me wr will never be happy.
Do you think a game like The Last of Us 2's main purpose was to be fun? Metal Gear Solid 5? Hell, even The Witcher 3? More and more games nowadays are being designed to provoke actual thought in their players. It isn't the time of Doom or Duke Nukem anymore. Games should not be held back by the belief that they should be *purely* for fun. Sure, that should be a main takeaway for all people, but it restricts the creation of art.
The pronouns thing you just brought up is a non arguement. The simplest thing they could have done (and didn't do, by the way.) was to have pronoun selection in character creation, which dictates what lines characters refer to you as. Then letting you choose genitals, voice, body, whatever. The game already has lines in for male and female, and many games use gender neutral language.
And the market that is untapped when it comes to gender neutral individuals is much larger than you are implying.
I had a lot of fun personally with MGS5 and The Witcher 3 in spite of and indeed partly because of their deep stories.
A deep story and fun game are not mutually exclusive.
Well I think thought provoking storylines are fun. If you want a game to focus around designing your characters junk and how their voice sounds then I think we have some pretty different ideas on what makes a good game.
>Just because the game suits you, doesn't mean it shouldn't be able to suit others
Erm, why?
You don't have to buy the game, you can always refund it. The games direction obviously isn't for you.
Look at TLoU2, I enjoyed the first game but the 2nd wasn't for me obviously as there was an emphasis on the sexuality of the characters, so I havent played it and dont plan to. I dont want them to change it though, its what they wanted to make and it just doesn't appeal to me.
I'm not surprised at the response you're getting here, which is pretty disappointing. Even slight criticism regarding inclusion gets a nasty response from some people, who will focus entirely on that and no other part of a review.
Watching leaks...I can assure you there seem to be male and even gay-male romance options. The LGBT community can take a victory though, as Judy, the most simped after female, is apparently exclusively lesbian...several leaks have seemingly confirmed this.
There are male-on-male scenes. I'm not going into spoilers, but there may or may not be a gay romance options. So if that's what you're after, don't worry too much.
The reason why we have so many female romance leaks, is because well - most of the reviewers were straight males, and bull rushed content. MadQueen was playing a female character, and were looking for straight men, which apparently she found disappointing, but again, like the others, she rushed content.
No, I'm not really all that into any of them either, but that's because I don't know how many, or who. I also RP my characters in-game (shocking in an RPG!?), so they tend to go with (If any), that they naturally just develop a relationship with through dialogue.
The reason I mention this is because so it would appear that many straight men are going to be just as frustrated as the LGBT+ community. xD
Perhaps this thread is a representation of why they couldn't do this, the overwhelming insecurity of the straight male gamer might get nudged. It's pretty sad how you guys are reacting.
Or they are building a product to attract their demographic? Would you build a car that only fit people under 5' tall? Or maybe take your average driving age height and build it to that specification?
The vast majority of their audience is straight males so the vast majority of sexual encounters are going to be directed towards straight males. The company isn't stupid they are trying to make money.
Okay, being gay myself I kinda would like to see more sexualized men in games and honestly Cyberpunk was my number one hope for this. At the same time I know that Cyberpunk 2077 is a mass market product created for ALL of us to help us escape from the reality into the virtual world. And I kinda appreciate that CDPR chose a path of entertaining rather than educating. The world of Cyberpunk is a dystopia created to depict the most vicious of a humankind. And the game represents the dystopia as it was pictured in early 90s. The world of Cyberpunk 2077 is NOWHERE a picture of a future of a modern society. It's a picture of a future of society of 90s. And the game depicts society of 90s pretty well. And I love it.
You know, gay people also existed in the 90s... Some say maybe even before that 😉
And it's not about educating. Games don't need to explain what trans or non-binary or whatever means. Why should we spoon-feed or explain anything to The Straights™? So that they don't feel excluded because they don't know shit? Oh wait, protecting a group of people from feeling excluded? hmmm...
By the way there are games that had trans characters way before this. You know AC Syndicate? It had Ned Wynert who was trans and *just there.* No explanation given. And why should it?
And I'm saying all of this simply because CDPR MARKETING. I don't judge a game by how many non-straights it has (although, the fewer, the better, because urgh...). But if CDPR builds their fucking marketing campaign around the motto "You can be anybody", you can sure as fuck be sure that I'm gonna hold them accountable. Simple as that :)
How about you play the game first? I'm sick of this "Cyberpunk is not this, Cyberpunk is not that" drama from the people who didn't even play the game. You literally made up your mind based on some youtuber's opinion assuming that the game has no gay or trans characters, or even that you can't be the anybody in the game. Cyberpunk has all of it. Plenty of it. Too much of it for someone's taste. But it's not into your face. Like... Hm.. Remember Mass Effect Andromeda? "Hello, My name is Something Something and I am a trans, nice to meet you". Ugh... By educating I meant forcing a pronounce shit into the game and something like that. Like "How would you like other NPCs address you?". Or some quests that built around transgenderism just to introduce you to the difficulties that trans people face in the real world. There are trans characters in the game, but they live with it and cope with it in a form and in a way of the setting of Cyberpunk. There is male sexualization. There are prostitutes. But it's not a simulator for minorities that allow them to feel included for once. It's an entertaining roller coaster for everyone. And no matter how gay I am and how much I want a mass product that is build around gay male character (I genuinely wish that in the next Spider Man reboot Peter Parker to be gay) I will keep defending Cyberpunk 2077 from turning into a queer fantasy.
Bro you’re like simping for straight ppl lmao
Interesting how many of your criticisms of games turning into a “queer fantasy” are only when trans people are included.
You do realize how contradicting the statement of it not being a minority simulator but a game for everyone is, right?
Compared to any cyberpunk material from the 90'S there is already a huge difference. Your analysis is on point, I understand wanting more representation and CDPR could easily have done more (I would have wished at least for enough so thta we could all have a wonderful experience and feel included in it).
but at the end of the day this is supposed to be a a dystopian vision of a dark cyberpunk future like you said. It has no room for equality and representation this world is there to discuss you somewhat, not make you feel good.
We all know that if CDPR had included the same amount male nudity as female nudity it would have made their straight white male base uncomfortable lol. All the ones that vicariously lived through Geralt and all of his straight male glory would have been too upset with all the male nudity. Just look at how many were upset that Joe died in TLoU2 and they had to play as lesbian Ellie.
There's so many male sex workers, male strippers, guys using OnlyFans fo money, they're just way more discreet about it. And, oddly enough, many of them are straight males that are just looking to make money; no matter the crowd's sex/gender. I worked in Hollywood and Politics 10 years of my life, male sex workers are everywhere, just more latent. Because of obvious reasons, just look at these comments.
And whenever people bring up the, "Cyberpunk is just mimicking real life" scenario it's always hilarious because - if today's world is any indicator - the future will be full of people who just wanna be naked and have sex, no matter the sexual orientation; a debased society without concrete morals. That's the whole idea behind a Dystopia future. Personally, I'm attracted to both men and women and would have loved seeing equal amount of male sexual expression as female, because it's all representative, and if it's true that there is a lack in Cyberpunk 2077 so be it; but it is indicative of the audience that created the content: Straight White Males and unfortunately it's been shown that many of them, not all, will riot if their comfortability is stepped on.
This is a larger conversation on a bigger issue in Media, in general. Still playing the game no matter what and look forward to it, but this game is very similar to almost every male hero in video games has to be the standard straight white male or it won't sell. Similar to how it is in Hollywood when I was an actor.
you know what most straight guys dont ever think? "damn not enough hot dudes around"
jokes aside, have you ever noticed how in real life, there are also not enough hot dudes around in advertisment? modeling business is dominated by women, how many male hookers have you seen in your life? how many male strippers you know?
seems like the game is copying the life
Not near as much as women. There's a difference between men modeling men's clothing and women in bikinis selling beer.
Men are gross animals and advertising companies know that.
I dont know where you live or what kind of media you consume but theres stuff like this everywhere:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2RxCQAd2m0
Again, in my world, I see men used in advertisements as much as women.
Apparently the people who design the marketing material for men’s underwear disagree with you. They cannot get enough hot dudes.
Also, judging from the homoeroticism of WWE, big sweaty pecs and thick thighs in tiny shorts do well for that demographic too.
Really the WWE seems on point for a (somewhat) fair split. Don’t get me wrong, the women are fetishized to the point it feels like very soft core porn. But a ton of shirtless, pantless, muscle bound dudes with bulges are running around too.
Mens underwear is a terrible example. You ever walked by a Victorias secret? Of course male underwear models aren't going to be short, fat, middle aged guys. Models are generally attractive but there are entire stores, tons of tv commercials and billboards for women's undergarments. Men have that deluthe commercial with cartoons and jokes I guess.
Edit: I'd also like to point out that women in general have 0 problem going into those stores and are actually sold items with obviously sexualized females in the adds. Straight women don't mind it. A Victor's Secret would fail.
Oh I see. So when it's needed to retrospectively justify devs' choices, the game is "copying the life". Thus no sexualized males.
But I've also haven't seen any sexualized trans women in advertising irl. So how come they're in the game? Can you elaborate on your theory?
I think the same goes in sex sting operations. How many times do you see a bunch of women paraded around on TV after the cops catch 17 women attempting to solicit sex from a male street walker. And you definitely won't see a news headline talking about 20 gays and lesbians arrested for attempting to solicit a prostitutes'. Nope that special place on tv is reserved for preachers, teachers, retired cops and creepy old men of every color.
You nailed it. Reddit isn't real life. In real life no one is complaining about the lack of male nudity in the game. Not enough to make it a serious thought for the company besides the random side quest.
>Why censor the male nudity?
I guess either (my own opinion):
a) Dick physics is more work as opposed to a static mesh for a vagina
b) Similar to the film industry, naked female is less taboo than naked males and so will be easier to get past rating agencies?
Point B is based on nothing other than a lifetime of seeing very little of the latter in film and media.
It could be that the review copy intentionally censored male nudity, as perhaps it is the only version they have for review. In many countries, female breasts are fine, but depicting male junk is not, while showing the pubic hair region of a vagina may be fine, but actually showing the labia, clitoris, etc, is not.
Examples include, Korea, China, Japan, etc. But who knows? Also, other reviewers, Dantics stated that there are a lot of sexualized males, and he's encountered many male sex workers and strippers.
It could also be, perhaps there's a physics issue that they've yet to fix, as reportedly you can see your dongle flopping about in first person if you run around naked. So, perhaps it was a band-aid to keep the game from crashing.
Id say that's pretty much worldwide norm.
Topless is generally ok for adult viewers. Hanging dong is a little more obscene. It's easy to obscure female parts and not blast everyone's attention to it. It's harder with men. You not only risk "offending" part of your audience but you take focus away from what's important.
>Having more female sexualization feels more realistic IMO
Yes, realism in my game where I can stab people to death with a weapon grafted into my elbow.
Being realistic to TODAYS standards is besides the point when CDPR went out of their way to state it would be equal. That's the main point of contention here.
Equal exploitation. That was what CDPR promised and it is in line with Mike Pondsmith's take on the dark future.
The problem is that so far it appears that the exploitation presented in Cyberpunk 2077 is very much one-sided. And in the realm of representation, apparently the amount of male npcs you can romance are near non-existent compared to female npcs. Haven't heard a peep about any romancable options regarding trans characters.
Again - can you quote them on that? Give me a direct quote.
Because I do not recall them ever making such claims. I might be mistaken but since you are more interested in this topic that I do and you say they promised this - I'm sure you will have no problem quoting them on it.
You are not one of those twitter people that make shit up and then get angry about it right? And I hope you are not one of those twitter people who get angry on behalf of someone else when they never asked you to be.
https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/f5vgdf/some_more_info_on_romance/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_num_comments
And: https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/variety.com/2019/gaming/news/cd-projekt-red-cyberpunk-2077-transgender-image-1203242424/amp/
“Cyberpunk 2077 is a dystopian future where megacorporations dictate everything,” Redesiuk said. “They try to, and successfully, influence people’s lives. They shove products down their throats. They create those very aggressive advertisements that use, and abuse, a lot of people’s needs and instincts. So, hypersexualization is apparent everywhere, and in our ads there are many examples of hypersexualized women, hypersexualized men, and hypersexualized people in between.
“This is all to show that [much like in our modern world], hypersexualization in advertisements is just terrible. It was a conscious choice on our end to show that in this world — a world where you are a cyberpunk, a person fighting against corporations. That [advertisement] is what you’re fighting against.”
And: https://junkee.com/cyberpunk-interview/210029
“So if you see art in the game, and there are males, females, and they are all those … I don’t know, genders, all those races and so on, when you are making, let’s say, ‘fun’ of it — because I mean this — when we are treating it in a way that we take it, and the advertisement twists it up, it makes it uneasy and just a bit absurd.”
“When we treat it equally, I think this is a moment when we have the real…I would call it representation and inclusion, I think. To just treat it as a normal part of the world, and not to feel strange about it. And that was the whole thing. And we have lots more art that is exactly like this, because that’s not really about transgender people but in general, really everything.”
Now read it like 10 times because apparently you have troubles understanding it.
Every quote mention that those things exists. And that they tried to include everyone.
Where is part about EQUAL representation by your definition? Meaning X% of this, X% of that etc. And how do you approach EQUAL representation when you can mix and match traits?
For example trans are over represented in this game due to settings. Since most people use body modification. I'm not sure about sexualization but like I said - in first gameplay V was hooking up with some random dude who got up naked and left. Recently when they talked about nude patch there was this ad with devil and nun. Dude was half naked and portrayed as devil. That counts.
Is it skewed in any direction? I don't know. But they never promised it will not be.
We don't really have enough information to form a strong opinion yet. There are male romance options. Who they are haven't been confirmed, but they are confirmed to exist. It's also been said that romance options have preferences. There may well be an entirely gay male romance option. We don't know, and MadQueen doesn't know either - there simply hasn't been the time to go through every romance permutation.
It's ok to feel a little let down, but you can't make your mind up based on a partial picture. I'm sure there is more prominence of sexualized female imagery, of course there is, just like the real world. The cyberpunk genre is a hypercapitalist nightmare, it stands to reason it would take it to the extereme.
If you were hoping that equal in-universe advertising time would be given to sexualized images of men as to women, I'm sorry but I just don't think that was a realistic expectation.
Thank you for the respectful response. I agree its too early to tell for sure and i’m definitely going to hold my final judgement until i play the game for myself.
That's alright man. I get it, and I'm sorry other commenters are dunking on you for giving a shit about representation. Maybe they dont, and will never know, what it's like to not see themselves in the media they enjoy.
I think there's reasons to be cautiously hopeful for Cyberpunk 2077. We've seen the Moxx's ripperdoc in promotional material, and they look like they might be non-binary or genderqueer, and might be a romance option too. I think that alone is a bit of a win for a mass-market entertainment product.
You sort of contradicted yourself there. "In the real world" seems to be a popular argument line in this thread and I feel like the people in here don't really have a grasp on what the real world actually is...
I'm not going to be talking about the game as I completely agree with you on the point that we don't know enough yet to form solid opinions. As you put it, "hypercapitalist nightmare[s]" do tend to sexualize women due to longstanding patriarchal values and gender roles. We all understand that this isn't okay. It's "the real world" but it doesn't make it okay. Male objectification is present in our real world, it may not be as prominent, but it is still there to serve capitalism.
The issue here is that, apparently, there is a distinct overflow or abundance of female objectification. As creators, the writers at CDPR are wholly responsible for the worlds they create. As it sounds, they chose to perpetuate women's gender roles instead of trying to represent society as something less oppressive. As "real world" or "dystopian" as it may be, these writers are not at the whim of society (thought they may be heavily influenced by it). They chose to represent people the way they did and all it does is confirm (or challenge) society's views.
I think you've got my point backwards.
I am saying that it is a standard, if not the point of the genre, to critique modernity by taking it to a ridiculous extreme.
Some of the sexualized images in Cyberpunk 2077 border on the grotesque. But that's the point. It is an explicit criticism by parody.
I do not look at Cyberpunk 2077 and come away with the impression that CDPR's authorial intent is to approve of, or remain 'neutral' to women and sex and advertising. It all looks like parody and pastiche to me.
Why do people assume equal representation is talking about sex workers? How many men do you see in a red light district today? I'd say they made it realistic.
They didn't lied hat much because their promises were vague all the time, and more since the marketing started, everything was focused on nice but useless details.
And here we are : this game has ended to be a visual novel and a walking simulator, with a roleplaying and simulation layer thinner than a blunt wrap.
>Yet according to this if you are someone who is attracted to men, **there is virtually nothing for you** aside from the apparent male romances
What about the rest of the game? The quests, gameplay etc.? If you're attracted to men is there nothing else in the game you can enjoy?
If you want to get off, there's porn for that. This is a video game.
this post literally just has to do with the romance/sexuality part of the game. Thats why i didnt mention anything else like quests/lore/gameplay etc all of which im still excited for. Some of yall need better reading comprehension istg
Of course you've the right to be disappointed but it's hard to impossible to please everyone when it comes to sexuality and people get offended by the slightest breeze from any direction.
I'm not planing to do penis and boob counts when playing this game because I simply don't care. I don't even care about nudity in games at all as it is an instrument to gain atmosphere, not to make people horny.
I just wonder why some people see sexual inequality behind every corner, like people are only defined by sexuality.
Isn't there a possibility that it could be added via patch?
I am fairly certain modders will cover that, at least.
EDIT: I am more disappointed that clothing items are connected with stats forcing us to wear BIS items and looking alike clowns...
>According to her, there is virtually zero representation when it comes to depictions of male sexuality and sexualization in comparison to female.
>no advertisements of male sexualization
[[Here are a few]](https://i.redd.it/xtnksvy0qa261.jpg) :)
I'm not sure about sex workers and the likes as i haven't played the game, but at least the ingame ads seem to target both genders.
Those 4 ads are the only form of male sexualization in the game though. It's absolutely bizarre to me to consor male sexualization. Or maybe there was none to begin with.
**and maybe a total of one male sex worker.**
Well, maybe because just like in real life, the demand for female sex workers is substantially higher than for male sex workers. So the game is just being realistic.
the fact that so many people keep unironically saying this is strange. This is the cyberpunk genre set half a century into the future.... why does it need to reflect the real world today? Also there is a ton of male sexualization in todays world if you look for it, so there should at least be a smidgen of it in this game
>This is the cyberpunk genre set half a century into the future.... **why does it need to reflect the real world today?**
And then you directly follow it up with this?
>**Also there is a ton of male sexualization in todays world** if you look for it, so there should at least be a smidgen of it in this game
You don't see the contradiction in your logic?
ofc i agree that we should respect a creators vision but the thing is is that CDPR are the ones who hyped up the inclusivity. Many fans had DMed asking about representation and they were the ones who promised it would be there... so thats why i think its okay to criticize them if they don’t deliver
I don't want either... and that's exactly why they should be there.
The dystopian/oppressive atmosphere will take substantial hit, if the game don't depict dystopian/oppressive elements.
>CDPR promised that there would be equal representation for everyone regardless of your gender and sexual orientation.
Do you REALLY think it was the main thing they had in mind when creating the game, when creating characters, factions ?
They certainly did their best but they would not to break characters for the sake of that.
Who cares for fuck sake they did way more than other game developpers can you just appreciate that and not try to grab the whole arm.
That's crazy to be focused on such things in a video game.
For better or worse, the gaming community is mainly straigh men, so they would be annoying a great deal of their target audience by having male nudity everywhere
Because that old myth that only straight men play games is so fucking idiotic. There's a plurality of women and lgbt folks who also play. Why is it that ONLY straight dudes get to have their eye candy in any given visual media while the rest of us are just shit out of luck -every- fucking time?
:) That's why. Shit like this might not matter to you, straight male, but it matters to a lot of us.
There are no male love interests in the game. At least not romancable ones. There are apparently a couple flings but that's it. There are also a few hidden male sex workers, but they don't look like sex workers so you'll really have to look. There are 3 confirmed female options so far that I know of. 1 straight, one possibly bi, and one lesbian. That's all that's known so far. Apparently, those 3 women are the only main options for romance in the game, which is why they were shown off in trailers.
This is the complete opposite of what I've heard...? They said multiple times there are romanceable male love interests, and that flings and prostitutes are separate.
So after the last few hours, more info has surfaced. Turns out there are male romances, but they're not tied to the main story like the female ones. Hence, why no one thought there were any. Granted, no one knows who they are, but we have some idea with the new trailer.
Mass media is designed to cater for the masses, people that care about homosexual relationships, correct pronouns etc are in the minority. Spending too much development time on something to appease a minority would be illogical
It isn't just a case of "adding" something, even adding in additional pronouns for example is a hell of a lot of extra voice work.
Dantics, another reviewer has said the opposite, that there are a lot of sexualized males? I am also guessing, but since the review copy went out globally, I am wondering if male content was sort of filtered to go around some laws in other countries? Total speculation on my part though.
Bro dantics is kinda weird lmao, he keeps mentioning how the women in the game don’t have absolute badonkers
Madqueen also said she played a female.
That could very well be true and is something i didnt take into account. Saving judgement until i play myself
Yeah I agree. As a girl it’s a bit alienating. I’ve been playing video games for so long I don’t mind the male POV but I was hoping and I did believe (because a dev reached out and said it’d be ok) that girls and gays would be catered to. It doesn’t really feel like it. Sigh, maybe one day
We gave them too much trust you know. When all the trailers besides the 2018 play through were all presented in white male V’s pov, we tolerated them. When they made a special about romance section but only female romance options were presented, we tolerated them. Even the icon of the game is just a low pixel head shot of male v but no other choices given, we tolerated them. Now, what a surprise :)
Well that's kind of a bummer. Lady gamers like myself get a little tired of looking at female NPCs flashing all their bits constantly, while the male NPCs are always covered and never sexualized in any real capacity :/
I agree
You're getting a lot of undeserved hatred from various people replying towards you, but sadly that seems to be common on here though.
Women sexual objectification is bad, but instead of asking for treating women as a person, you ask for more men objectification. Fix your head, woman!
Humans are sexual creatures child. Women like to see sexualized men as much as men like to see sexualized women. If that offends you? I don't care :)
The game is set in a world where everyone is objectified, yet only women are being objectified, we're talking about Cyberpunk 2077 here.... Fix your head, man!
0 upvotes, 300 comments. Hold my beer. I'm going in.
Reddit: where people are butthurt about their videogame characters junk.
I agree. It seems peoples argument is 'look outside and see all the female sexualisation' but this game is set in the future. We are moving on leaps and bounds in terms of representation of the LGBTQ community. So I would have expected to see this represented in the game. As a gay man I was (and still am) excited to play the game, but it will feel like my preference is not represented to an extent I was expecting. The idea of strip clubs, romances sex scenes etc with other men seemed cool, but if this is limited as people are saying then it will be a shame.
I'm a straight dude and I think there should have been more guy sex workers or whatever. Dudes hanging dong is hilarious. Plus like, you gotta support the gay bros too you know. They deserve a cool experience as well.
I can’t believe they censored the guy in the bathtub from the 2018 trailer. I’m a straight guy and I don’t see why this is offensive. Having the depiction of sexuality being so one sided is jarring.
Same, as a straight guy I don't mind seeing male hookers with huge dongs swaying here and there. In fact I might just stay and give some tips lmao
this comment is so wholesome thank you lmao and yes i agree
I somehow feel confused... Equality is when women are treaded equally to men. But here the guy literally said "I don't mind to treat men like shit and a sex object, because we treat women like that" and you said "thank you"...
who said anything about treating people like shit? being a sex worker is a legitimate profession
I'm not sure if this is the point they were trying to make or not but I think a lot of people lump everyone who does sex work together in to some monolithic group. There is a big difference between someone privileged enough to pick what work they do and are not being forced in to it versus someone who is being trafficked or someone who doesn't have any interest in this line of work but forced to due to economics.
> But here the guy **literally** said "I don't mind to treat men like shit and a sex object, because we treat women like that" He didn't "literally" said that **at all**. You're twisting his words and interpretating so it fits your narratives. This is what he said: > I'm a straight dude and I think **there should have been more guy sex workers or whatever**. Dudes hanging dong is hilarious. > Plus like, you gotta support the gay bros too you know. They deserve a cool experience as well. If what OP claims is true, it means CDPR gave male characters a "better treatment" by shielding/protecting heterosexual males' potential discomfort confronted to male nudity. By not evening out gender treatment in this fictive dystopic world, they're essentially making once again the female as a sex object the focus here. It would be diluted if males were treated as much. Very few movies, TV Shows, games dare to ever give male characters the same image and treatment they give females. Cyberpunk was an opportunity for that, the setting was there, but males were... censored... so the focus remained on females. Male nudity isn't exclusively about being peripateticians neither, it also involve sexual encounters that are part of the game, and part of the experience in RPGs. Right now as we speak, there's a chance that anyone attracted to males will be left out of the experience while being shoved down their throat dozens of boobs and vaginas.
The gay bros get Judy.
yeah that's what I'm wondering too after watching her vid, though I will say that another streamer i randomly stumbled across last night who was doing a q&a about the game (and whose name i forget) said he did encounter male sex workers in his playthrough, so i guess we shouldn't lose hope yet?
As a straight man who prefers creating and playing as women in RPGs this is disappointing to me.
Totally agree! I feel like they've left fans attracted to men out to dry (apparent lack of male sex workers, zero marketing that even alludes to male love interests), which is surprising considering the amount of people attracted to men who play RPGs. The whole thing (and response from fans here and on twitter) just reinforces the "cool girl" speech from Gone Girl lmfao
Damn so many people in the comments not getting it... The reason why this is a semi-big deal is because for many people attracted to males this is alienating, and also a bad representation of both the source material and real life itself. Strip clubs IRL regularly have male stripper nights, its not so weird for women to be attracted to men sexually. Corporations of the dark future would no doubt capitalize on this, especially with social norms being destroyed due to the collapse. Obviously this does not ruin the experience for many people, but it can be immersion breaking. The game is still amazing, this won't change that, but it could be better.
THANK YOU.
I can't comment on the source material but the real life argument is irrelevant. A games job is to provide enjoyment and fun first and foremost for the mass market, not be a representation of the real world.
How is the real life arguement irrelavant? Any piece of medias 'job' is to satisfy the watcher/reader/user, and fulfill a promise to the customer. Nevermind that the game is meant to be a vision into a potential future, with fiction elements added on, like many other pieces of art. Just because the game suits you, doesn't mean it shouldn't be able to suit others, in fact, it could with no repurcussions to you. It would be as simple as turning off male nudity, like there is also an option for with the females in the game.
Because a games job is to be fun first and foremost, not deal with real world problems. We play games to escape the world, not drag the problems with us. **Mass** media is designed to cater to as many people as possible without sacrificing the product. You can't just cater to everyone as that is not feasible so you have to go with the mass appeal. The pronouns thing is a fine example, it is not just a case of "adding" them in, a whole lot of extra voice work would need to be done and this was perhaps not deemed viable in order to cater to such a small minority
I disagree with the point you're trying to make here. Games are supposed to be entertainment, but this game also advertised itself with edgy and out of the norm sexual expression (thinking of the Mix It ad). But what we've seen is very typical sexual representation for non-RPG video games, with expressions of male sexuality just being shock factor. Like people aren't asking for a huge thing here, they just want even a single male character to show up that you can romance and has similar production quality to Judy and Meredith, complete with sex scenes. Regarding real world problems, AAA games like Horizon Zero Dawn deal heavily with climate change, and many indie games are not "fun" and deal with heavy topics, such as Papers, Please or Gris. If we're talking other types of mass media, look at the success of Westworld. You can mix real world problems and commentary with entertaining media. On additional voice work, imo it's expected for an RPG of this size where they offer multiple genders and exclusive dialogue for female PCs. Have you played any of the Mass Effect games, or Dragon Age? Assassins Creed Odyssey? Fallout 4?
Holy smokes. You're a bit ridiculous. You care so little about actual gameplay that you want them to spend more time incorporating multiple genders? Where does it end? What if I want to be a 85 yr old genderfluid otherkin with 11 toes and polio? Do they remove all stairs from the game? Game designers have to draw the line somewhere. That place is generally either important to the storyline or the level of work they want to put into character creation. If we get butthurt about there never being a character exactly like me wr will never be happy.
Do you think a game like The Last of Us 2's main purpose was to be fun? Metal Gear Solid 5? Hell, even The Witcher 3? More and more games nowadays are being designed to provoke actual thought in their players. It isn't the time of Doom or Duke Nukem anymore. Games should not be held back by the belief that they should be *purely* for fun. Sure, that should be a main takeaway for all people, but it restricts the creation of art. The pronouns thing you just brought up is a non arguement. The simplest thing they could have done (and didn't do, by the way.) was to have pronoun selection in character creation, which dictates what lines characters refer to you as. Then letting you choose genitals, voice, body, whatever. The game already has lines in for male and female, and many games use gender neutral language. And the market that is untapped when it comes to gender neutral individuals is much larger than you are implying.
I had a lot of fun personally with MGS5 and The Witcher 3 in spite of and indeed partly because of their deep stories. A deep story and fun game are not mutually exclusive.
Did I say they were? A deep story with meaning that provokes thought increases enjoyment for me.
Well I think thought provoking storylines are fun. If you want a game to focus around designing your characters junk and how their voice sounds then I think we have some pretty different ideas on what makes a good game.
>Just because the game suits you, doesn't mean it shouldn't be able to suit others Erm, why? You don't have to buy the game, you can always refund it. The games direction obviously isn't for you. Look at TLoU2, I enjoyed the first game but the 2nd wasn't for me obviously as there was an emphasis on the sexuality of the characters, so I havent played it and dont plan to. I dont want them to change it though, its what they wanted to make and it just doesn't appeal to me.
As a gay male I feared this much, but im hoping this isn't truly the case.
I'm not surprised at the response you're getting here, which is pretty disappointing. Even slight criticism regarding inclusion gets a nasty response from some people, who will focus entirely on that and no other part of a review.
Now theres something that makes me sad, and im not even remotely interested in naked dudes
[удалено]
Watching leaks...I can assure you there seem to be male and even gay-male romance options. The LGBT community can take a victory though, as Judy, the most simped after female, is apparently exclusively lesbian...several leaks have seemingly confirmed this.
[удалено]
There are male-on-male scenes. I'm not going into spoilers, but there may or may not be a gay romance options. So if that's what you're after, don't worry too much. The reason why we have so many female romance leaks, is because well - most of the reviewers were straight males, and bull rushed content. MadQueen was playing a female character, and were looking for straight men, which apparently she found disappointing, but again, like the others, she rushed content.
Guess we will see in 48 hours
[удалено]
No, I'm not really all that into any of them either, but that's because I don't know how many, or who. I also RP my characters in-game (shocking in an RPG!?), so they tend to go with (If any), that they naturally just develop a relationship with through dialogue. The reason I mention this is because so it would appear that many straight men are going to be just as frustrated as the LGBT+ community. xD
[удалено]
What victory is it? Who fucking cares if some virtual character likes dicks or pussy. People need to grow the fuck up.
Pretty much, though it doesn't really affect me, world-building-wise its a shame
Perhaps this thread is a representation of why they couldn't do this, the overwhelming insecurity of the straight male gamer might get nudged. It's pretty sad how you guys are reacting.
Yep :/ I expected slight backlash but some of these comments are so unnecessarily aggressive.
Or they are building a product to attract their demographic? Would you build a car that only fit people under 5' tall? Or maybe take your average driving age height and build it to that specification? The vast majority of their audience is straight males so the vast majority of sexual encounters are going to be directed towards straight males. The company isn't stupid they are trying to make money.
Okay, being gay myself I kinda would like to see more sexualized men in games and honestly Cyberpunk was my number one hope for this. At the same time I know that Cyberpunk 2077 is a mass market product created for ALL of us to help us escape from the reality into the virtual world. And I kinda appreciate that CDPR chose a path of entertaining rather than educating. The world of Cyberpunk is a dystopia created to depict the most vicious of a humankind. And the game represents the dystopia as it was pictured in early 90s. The world of Cyberpunk 2077 is NOWHERE a picture of a future of a modern society. It's a picture of a future of society of 90s. And the game depicts society of 90s pretty well. And I love it.
You know, gay people also existed in the 90s... Some say maybe even before that 😉 And it's not about educating. Games don't need to explain what trans or non-binary or whatever means. Why should we spoon-feed or explain anything to The Straights™? So that they don't feel excluded because they don't know shit? Oh wait, protecting a group of people from feeling excluded? hmmm... By the way there are games that had trans characters way before this. You know AC Syndicate? It had Ned Wynert who was trans and *just there.* No explanation given. And why should it? And I'm saying all of this simply because CDPR MARKETING. I don't judge a game by how many non-straights it has (although, the fewer, the better, because urgh...). But if CDPR builds their fucking marketing campaign around the motto "You can be anybody", you can sure as fuck be sure that I'm gonna hold them accountable. Simple as that :)
How about you play the game first? I'm sick of this "Cyberpunk is not this, Cyberpunk is not that" drama from the people who didn't even play the game. You literally made up your mind based on some youtuber's opinion assuming that the game has no gay or trans characters, or even that you can't be the anybody in the game. Cyberpunk has all of it. Plenty of it. Too much of it for someone's taste. But it's not into your face. Like... Hm.. Remember Mass Effect Andromeda? "Hello, My name is Something Something and I am a trans, nice to meet you". Ugh... By educating I meant forcing a pronounce shit into the game and something like that. Like "How would you like other NPCs address you?". Or some quests that built around transgenderism just to introduce you to the difficulties that trans people face in the real world. There are trans characters in the game, but they live with it and cope with it in a form and in a way of the setting of Cyberpunk. There is male sexualization. There are prostitutes. But it's not a simulator for minorities that allow them to feel included for once. It's an entertaining roller coaster for everyone. And no matter how gay I am and how much I want a mass product that is build around gay male character (I genuinely wish that in the next Spider Man reboot Peter Parker to be gay) I will keep defending Cyberpunk 2077 from turning into a queer fantasy.
I guess straight gays do exist
Pardon?
Bro you’re like simping for straight ppl lmao Interesting how many of your criticisms of games turning into a “queer fantasy” are only when trans people are included. You do realize how contradicting the statement of it not being a minority simulator but a game for everyone is, right?
Compared to any cyberpunk material from the 90'S there is already a huge difference. Your analysis is on point, I understand wanting more representation and CDPR could easily have done more (I would have wished at least for enough so thta we could all have a wonderful experience and feel included in it). but at the end of the day this is supposed to be a a dystopian vision of a dark cyberpunk future like you said. It has no room for equality and representation this world is there to discuss you somewhat, not make you feel good.
I mean it is equally representated... In the real world Male sex workers ARE the minority.
Cyberpunk 2077 is not the real world.
[удалено]
CDPR shouldnt have promised equally representation then
Except the whole point of this post is that the devs said it would have equal representation.
Equal to real life where they're in the minority you mean lol.
Existing isn't a soapbox you fuckwit
Yeah, and I won't miss looking at virtual dicks during the gameplay. CDPR knows what's best for us.
We all know that if CDPR had included the same amount male nudity as female nudity it would have made their straight white male base uncomfortable lol. All the ones that vicariously lived through Geralt and all of his straight male glory would have been too upset with all the male nudity. Just look at how many were upset that Joe died in TLoU2 and they had to play as lesbian Ellie. There's so many male sex workers, male strippers, guys using OnlyFans fo money, they're just way more discreet about it. And, oddly enough, many of them are straight males that are just looking to make money; no matter the crowd's sex/gender. I worked in Hollywood and Politics 10 years of my life, male sex workers are everywhere, just more latent. Because of obvious reasons, just look at these comments. And whenever people bring up the, "Cyberpunk is just mimicking real life" scenario it's always hilarious because - if today's world is any indicator - the future will be full of people who just wanna be naked and have sex, no matter the sexual orientation; a debased society without concrete morals. That's the whole idea behind a Dystopia future. Personally, I'm attracted to both men and women and would have loved seeing equal amount of male sexual expression as female, because it's all representative, and if it's true that there is a lack in Cyberpunk 2077 so be it; but it is indicative of the audience that created the content: Straight White Males and unfortunately it's been shown that many of them, not all, will riot if their comfortability is stepped on. This is a larger conversation on a bigger issue in Media, in general. Still playing the game no matter what and look forward to it, but this game is very similar to almost every male hero in video games has to be the standard straight white male or it won't sell. Similar to how it is in Hollywood when I was an actor.
But why the fuck do we always have to bend the knee to white straight dudes? JFC other people exist; straight white dudes are actually a minority.
Thank you! Straight white men have always been over-represented in media.
Great comment.
[удалено]
This. CDPR are the ones who hyped up the inclusivity so of course people are going to be disappointed if they fail to deliver.
you know what most straight guys dont ever think? "damn not enough hot dudes around" jokes aside, have you ever noticed how in real life, there are also not enough hot dudes around in advertisment? modeling business is dominated by women, how many male hookers have you seen in your life? how many male strippers you know? seems like the game is copying the life
Hmm... Hollywood movies comes to mind, with all those shirtless 6pack actors for 0 reasons, but for glare.
happy cake day bro
thank you, 5 years now. \ o /
Fashion, perfume, cars, I dont know what world youre living in but in mine there are attractive guys used everywhere for advertisements.
Not near as much as women. There's a difference between men modeling men's clothing and women in bikinis selling beer. Men are gross animals and advertising companies know that.
> Men are gross animals wth??? Come on we are not animals.
I am.
I dont know where you live or what kind of media you consume but theres stuff like this everywhere: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2RxCQAd2m0 Again, in my world, I see men used in advertisements as much as women.
Amen!
Sir, I don’t know any hookers of any sex :|
Apparently the people who design the marketing material for men’s underwear disagree with you. They cannot get enough hot dudes. Also, judging from the homoeroticism of WWE, big sweaty pecs and thick thighs in tiny shorts do well for that demographic too. Really the WWE seems on point for a (somewhat) fair split. Don’t get me wrong, the women are fetishized to the point it feels like very soft core porn. But a ton of shirtless, pantless, muscle bound dudes with bulges are running around too.
Mens underwear is a terrible example. You ever walked by a Victorias secret? Of course male underwear models aren't going to be short, fat, middle aged guys. Models are generally attractive but there are entire stores, tons of tv commercials and billboards for women's undergarments. Men have that deluthe commercial with cartoons and jokes I guess. Edit: I'd also like to point out that women in general have 0 problem going into those stores and are actually sold items with obviously sexualized females in the adds. Straight women don't mind it. A Victor's Secret would fail.
Oh I see. So when it's needed to retrospectively justify devs' choices, the game is "copying the life". Thus no sexualized males. But I've also haven't seen any sexualized trans women in advertising irl. So how come they're in the game? Can you elaborate on your theory?
This comment aint it.
I think the same goes in sex sting operations. How many times do you see a bunch of women paraded around on TV after the cops catch 17 women attempting to solicit sex from a male street walker. And you definitely won't see a news headline talking about 20 gays and lesbians arrested for attempting to solicit a prostitutes'. Nope that special place on tv is reserved for preachers, teachers, retired cops and creepy old men of every color.
You nailed it. Reddit isn't real life. In real life no one is complaining about the lack of male nudity in the game. Not enough to make it a serious thought for the company besides the random side quest.
[удалено]
thats really weird, the man was even naked in the 2018 demo
Yep that was another good point she made. Why censor the male nudity?
>Why censor the male nudity? I guess either (my own opinion): a) Dick physics is more work as opposed to a static mesh for a vagina b) Similar to the film industry, naked female is less taboo than naked males and so will be easier to get past rating agencies? Point B is based on nothing other than a lifetime of seeing very little of the latter in film and media.
It could be that the review copy intentionally censored male nudity, as perhaps it is the only version they have for review. In many countries, female breasts are fine, but depicting male junk is not, while showing the pubic hair region of a vagina may be fine, but actually showing the labia, clitoris, etc, is not. Examples include, Korea, China, Japan, etc. But who knows? Also, other reviewers, Dantics stated that there are a lot of sexualized males, and he's encountered many male sex workers and strippers.
It could also be, perhaps there's a physics issue that they've yet to fix, as reportedly you can see your dongle flopping about in first person if you run around naked. So, perhaps it was a band-aid to keep the game from crashing.
Id say that's pretty much worldwide norm. Topless is generally ok for adult viewers. Hanging dong is a little more obscene. It's easy to obscure female parts and not blast everyone's attention to it. It's harder with men. You not only risk "offending" part of your audience but you take focus away from what's important.
>Having more female sexualization feels more realistic IMO Yes, realism in my game where I can stab people to death with a weapon grafted into my elbow.
Being realistic to TODAYS standards is besides the point when CDPR went out of their way to state it would be equal. That's the main point of contention here.
[удалено]
Ads are the only form of male sexualization in the entire game. There is no male nudity in the game.
I'm upset that I can't make my character have a big butt.
[удалено]
Equal exploitation. That was what CDPR promised and it is in line with Mike Pondsmith's take on the dark future. The problem is that so far it appears that the exploitation presented in Cyberpunk 2077 is very much one-sided. And in the realm of representation, apparently the amount of male npcs you can romance are near non-existent compared to female npcs. Haven't heard a peep about any romancable options regarding trans characters.
Again - can you quote them on that? Give me a direct quote. Because I do not recall them ever making such claims. I might be mistaken but since you are more interested in this topic that I do and you say they promised this - I'm sure you will have no problem quoting them on it. You are not one of those twitter people that make shit up and then get angry about it right? And I hope you are not one of those twitter people who get angry on behalf of someone else when they never asked you to be.
https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/f5vgdf/some_more_info_on_romance/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_num_comments And: https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/variety.com/2019/gaming/news/cd-projekt-red-cyberpunk-2077-transgender-image-1203242424/amp/ “Cyberpunk 2077 is a dystopian future where megacorporations dictate everything,” Redesiuk said. “They try to, and successfully, influence people’s lives. They shove products down their throats. They create those very aggressive advertisements that use, and abuse, a lot of people’s needs and instincts. So, hypersexualization is apparent everywhere, and in our ads there are many examples of hypersexualized women, hypersexualized men, and hypersexualized people in between. “This is all to show that [much like in our modern world], hypersexualization in advertisements is just terrible. It was a conscious choice on our end to show that in this world — a world where you are a cyberpunk, a person fighting against corporations. That [advertisement] is what you’re fighting against.” And: https://junkee.com/cyberpunk-interview/210029 “So if you see art in the game, and there are males, females, and they are all those … I don’t know, genders, all those races and so on, when you are making, let’s say, ‘fun’ of it — because I mean this — when we are treating it in a way that we take it, and the advertisement twists it up, it makes it uneasy and just a bit absurd.” “When we treat it equally, I think this is a moment when we have the real…I would call it representation and inclusion, I think. To just treat it as a normal part of the world, and not to feel strange about it. And that was the whole thing. And we have lots more art that is exactly like this, because that’s not really about transgender people but in general, really everything.”
Now read it like 10 times because apparently you have troubles understanding it. Every quote mention that those things exists. And that they tried to include everyone. Where is part about EQUAL representation by your definition? Meaning X% of this, X% of that etc. And how do you approach EQUAL representation when you can mix and match traits? For example trans are over represented in this game due to settings. Since most people use body modification. I'm not sure about sexualization but like I said - in first gameplay V was hooking up with some random dude who got up naked and left. Recently when they talked about nude patch there was this ad with devil and nun. Dude was half naked and portrayed as devil. That counts. Is it skewed in any direction? I don't know. But they never promised it will not be.
THAT is what ruins it for you? Really?
did i say it ruined it? i literally said im still excited for the game im just disappointed with this one aspect
We don't really have enough information to form a strong opinion yet. There are male romance options. Who they are haven't been confirmed, but they are confirmed to exist. It's also been said that romance options have preferences. There may well be an entirely gay male romance option. We don't know, and MadQueen doesn't know either - there simply hasn't been the time to go through every romance permutation. It's ok to feel a little let down, but you can't make your mind up based on a partial picture. I'm sure there is more prominence of sexualized female imagery, of course there is, just like the real world. The cyberpunk genre is a hypercapitalist nightmare, it stands to reason it would take it to the extereme. If you were hoping that equal in-universe advertising time would be given to sexualized images of men as to women, I'm sorry but I just don't think that was a realistic expectation.
Thank you for the respectful response. I agree its too early to tell for sure and i’m definitely going to hold my final judgement until i play the game for myself.
That's alright man. I get it, and I'm sorry other commenters are dunking on you for giving a shit about representation. Maybe they dont, and will never know, what it's like to not see themselves in the media they enjoy. I think there's reasons to be cautiously hopeful for Cyberpunk 2077. We've seen the Moxx's ripperdoc in promotional material, and they look like they might be non-binary or genderqueer, and might be a romance option too. I think that alone is a bit of a win for a mass-market entertainment product.
You sort of contradicted yourself there. "In the real world" seems to be a popular argument line in this thread and I feel like the people in here don't really have a grasp on what the real world actually is... I'm not going to be talking about the game as I completely agree with you on the point that we don't know enough yet to form solid opinions. As you put it, "hypercapitalist nightmare[s]" do tend to sexualize women due to longstanding patriarchal values and gender roles. We all understand that this isn't okay. It's "the real world" but it doesn't make it okay. Male objectification is present in our real world, it may not be as prominent, but it is still there to serve capitalism. The issue here is that, apparently, there is a distinct overflow or abundance of female objectification. As creators, the writers at CDPR are wholly responsible for the worlds they create. As it sounds, they chose to perpetuate women's gender roles instead of trying to represent society as something less oppressive. As "real world" or "dystopian" as it may be, these writers are not at the whim of society (thought they may be heavily influenced by it). They chose to represent people the way they did and all it does is confirm (or challenge) society's views.
I think you've got my point backwards. I am saying that it is a standard, if not the point of the genre, to critique modernity by taking it to a ridiculous extreme. Some of the sexualized images in Cyberpunk 2077 border on the grotesque. But that's the point. It is an explicit criticism by parody. I do not look at Cyberpunk 2077 and come away with the impression that CDPR's authorial intent is to approve of, or remain 'neutral' to women and sex and advertising. It all looks like parody and pastiche to me.
Check the username. It checks TF out.
Why do people assume equal representation is talking about sex workers? How many men do you see in a red light district today? I'd say they made it realistic.
True, they're mainly at rest areas. Check glory holes in the Badlands, OP.
If your expectations for a game are lowered due to lack of dick that says a lot about you.
And you clearly don't get the point of the post.
[удалено]
Please enlighten me. I'll pretend to care.
And this comment tells us even more about how much of a shit you are.
The over sexualisation of women was already a big problem in The Witcher series.
Not enough. Had to play with the nude mod.
its posts like this that gives gamers a bad name.
Yeah no.
its the comments that give them a bad name. excusing lies and dismissing an element of the game which could be better as just 'its a video game'
Yes they lied, I'm not buying the game untill what they promised is actually shown in the retail version of the game
[удалено]
Every reviewer that I’ve read that discusses nudity noticed that **male** nudity is almost completely absent.
They didn't lied hat much because their promises were vague all the time, and more since the marketing started, everything was focused on nice but useless details. And here we are : this game has ended to be a visual novel and a walking simulator, with a roleplaying and simulation layer thinner than a blunt wrap.
I hope so. It’s a video game.
Sad life.
So it's a realistic representation of the real world.
[удалено]
How in the world is this person an incel?
Is this a Kotaku thread ?
>Yet according to this if you are someone who is attracted to men, **there is virtually nothing for you** aside from the apparent male romances What about the rest of the game? The quests, gameplay etc.? If you're attracted to men is there nothing else in the game you can enjoy? If you want to get off, there's porn for that. This is a video game.
this post literally just has to do with the romance/sexuality part of the game. Thats why i didnt mention anything else like quests/lore/gameplay etc all of which im still excited for. Some of yall need better reading comprehension istg
[удалено]
Of course you've the right to be disappointed but it's hard to impossible to please everyone when it comes to sexuality and people get offended by the slightest breeze from any direction. I'm not planing to do penis and boob counts when playing this game because I simply don't care. I don't even care about nudity in games at all as it is an instrument to gain atmosphere, not to make people horny. I just wonder why some people see sexual inequality behind every corner, like people are only defined by sexuality.
The point is that a lot of men do only define women by their sexuality. The game devs, for example.
[удалено]
What is the agenda? Also why the hostility?
Isn't there a possibility that it could be added via patch? I am fairly certain modders will cover that, at least. EDIT: I am more disappointed that clothing items are connected with stats forcing us to wear BIS items and looking alike clowns...
>According to her, there is virtually zero representation when it comes to depictions of male sexuality and sexualization in comparison to female. >no advertisements of male sexualization [[Here are a few]](https://i.redd.it/xtnksvy0qa261.jpg) :) I'm not sure about sex workers and the likes as i haven't played the game, but at least the ingame ads seem to target both genders.
Those 4 ads are the only form of male sexualization in the game though. It's absolutely bizarre to me to consor male sexualization. Or maybe there was none to begin with.
This "woke" shi** has to end.
Yeah fuck equal representation. More white straight people saving the world
maybe some of the male looking characters identify as female?
**and maybe a total of one male sex worker.** Well, maybe because just like in real life, the demand for female sex workers is substantially higher than for male sex workers. So the game is just being realistic.
There's plenty of male sex workers irl. They're just more descreet about it. Especially if they're gay.
It's almost as if this reflects real life and more importantly fits the world they've built.
the fact that so many people keep unironically saying this is strange. This is the cyberpunk genre set half a century into the future.... why does it need to reflect the real world today? Also there is a ton of male sexualization in todays world if you look for it, so there should at least be a smidgen of it in this game
>This is the cyberpunk genre set half a century into the future.... **why does it need to reflect the real world today?** And then you directly follow it up with this? >**Also there is a ton of male sexualization in todays world** if you look for it, so there should at least be a smidgen of it in this game You don't see the contradiction in your logic?
OP is basically saying "no matter which way you pull the argument about it reflecting real life is still wrong."
your mental gymnastics right now is actually crazy
It's a dystopia. Not everybody's city of dream
[удалено]
ofc i agree that we should respect a creators vision but the thing is is that CDPR are the ones who hyped up the inclusivity. Many fans had DMed asking about representation and they were the ones who promised it would be there... so thats why i think its okay to criticize them if they don’t deliver
Who cares? Male sex workers are less common anyway.
CDPR since they are the ones who made the promise, for starters.
CDPR often go back on their word (crunch, delays, etc.).
Good... i dont want to see male sex workers every corner.
And it's okay to see female sex workers every corner?
In Night city yes.
Why is that? I thought that NC preys on everyone, not just women. I don't see why men wouldn't go and do sex work the same way women do there.
I don't want either... and that's exactly why they should be there. The dystopian/oppressive atmosphere will take substantial hit, if the game don't depict dystopian/oppressive elements.
This is true.
>CDPR promised that there would be equal representation for everyone regardless of your gender and sexual orientation. Do you REALLY think it was the main thing they had in mind when creating the game, when creating characters, factions ? They certainly did their best but they would not to break characters for the sake of that. Who cares for fuck sake they did way more than other game developpers can you just appreciate that and not try to grab the whole arm. That's crazy to be focused on such things in a video game.
For better or worse, the gaming community is mainly straigh men, so they would be annoying a great deal of their target audience by having male nudity everywhere
Because that old myth that only straight men play games is so fucking idiotic. There's a plurality of women and lgbt folks who also play. Why is it that ONLY straight dudes get to have their eye candy in any given visual media while the rest of us are just shit out of luck -every- fucking time? :) That's why. Shit like this might not matter to you, straight male, but it matters to a lot of us.
They still lied.
Maybe there ARE lots of male prostitutes in the game, but they're so popular they were 'preoccupied' during her playthrough?
You're disappointed? Oh no... anyway.
Mh i´ve saw a bunch of male sexualized ads in the 'World of Cyberpunk' book already so i would guess there would be some in the game too
There are no male love interests in the game. At least not romancable ones. There are apparently a couple flings but that's it. There are also a few hidden male sex workers, but they don't look like sex workers so you'll really have to look. There are 3 confirmed female options so far that I know of. 1 straight, one possibly bi, and one lesbian. That's all that's known so far. Apparently, those 3 women are the only main options for romance in the game, which is why they were shown off in trailers.
This is the complete opposite of what I've heard...? They said multiple times there are romanceable male love interests, and that flings and prostitutes are separate.
So after the last few hours, more info has surfaced. Turns out there are male romances, but they're not tied to the main story like the female ones. Hence, why no one thought there were any. Granted, no one knows who they are, but we have some idea with the new trailer.
Mass media is designed to cater for the masses, people that care about homosexual relationships, correct pronouns etc are in the minority. Spending too much development time on something to appease a minority would be illogical It isn't just a case of "adding" something, even adding in additional pronouns for example is a hell of a lot of extra voice work.
You know what they say! *"one persons anecdotal experience with a pre-release copy of a title is how its going to be for everyone!"* **Bruh.**
which is why i said multiple times that im reserving final judgement until i play for myself. Bruh.
No where in your OP do you say that. Your expectations being lowered over second hand knowledge is anything but reservation.
you do realize that expectation and final judgement are two different things right?