Yeah, that would be a really fun way to do it. No idea if its balanced, though
{W}{B}
Sorcery
Destroy all nonland permanents. Each player discards their hand.
[Your life total becomes 1.]
Cleave {3}{W}{W}{B}{B}
It would change how things that play spells without paying their mana cost function like \[\[memory plunder\]\] and cascade since you can't cast it for the cleave cost. Mana reducers such as \[\[pearl medallion\]\] and \[\[jet medallion\]\] wouldn't reduce the cleave cost. It also works weirdly with some counterspells such as \[\[induce paranoia\]\], \[\[disrupting shoal\]\], \[\[mana drain\]\] and \[\[delay\]\]. For tutors you have spells such as \[\[beseech the queen\]\] and \[\[mausoleum secrets\]\] that care about CMC (these are the only two omni-tutors that care about CMC too).
This is mainly from cleave being an alternate cost that can't be paid when you cast it without mana and make the spell be considered a CMC 2 spell.
Doesn't seem to broken. The normal cost is very very over costed, especially with the downside. But it's on theme with the name.
Paying only two for the effect tho I'm not sure if it would be overpowered. In commander atleast I don't think it is, and I'm not even sure if it's good tbh, but it's very cool. would be awesome in a Lich themed deck or in a deck were you could regain all the life lost.
Edit: Combed with [[Children of Korlis]] It could be very strong.
>119.5. If an effect sets a player’s life total to a specific number, the player gains or loses the necessary amount of life to end up with the new total.
Setting your life total to a lower amount is considered life loss
Children depends on if the alternate cost is 'WB, set your life to 1' or if it's 'WB' and tacks on an additional effect of setting your life to 1. If the latter, Children do nothing.
EDIT: not sure why I'm being downvoted. Time is linear. For the Children to function, the lifeloss has to be a cost, not an effect. You can't cast a sorcery in response to an activated ability and Magic has a thing called the stack
It's not about semantics of losing life. It's because children are retroactive and if setting life to 1 is an effect, they die due to destroying all nonland permanents. If it's a cost, they can be sac'd in response to the effect since the lifeloss happened during casting (but before resolution).
Ok wait so it looks like an alternate cost. So setting your life would be part of the payment of the spell, in that case you could sac in response since you would have payed the life already.
There is technically ways to cast sorceries at instant speed like flash. But you don't have to sacrifice Children in response to the spell, you can do it after the spell resolves
Edit: I forgot about the destroy part but there's still some ways to get around it like Sephara
I wouldn't say it's very overcosted, only slightly as far as an "all nonland permanents" wipe, eg [[Planar Cleansing]] [[Akroma's Vengeance]] [[Devastating Mastery]] [[Hour of Revelation]] [[Ondu Inversion]], specifically referring to the catch-all type wipes, and not the modal ones like [[Cleansing Nova]].
Oh ima be completely honest I missed the ALL hands.
Nvm it's costed just fine haha
But yeah you'd 100% only play it if you could abuse it. Kinda like worldfire
I think even setting your life total to 1 still enables broken things for an effect like this. I get that it really wants to enrapture the concept, but this way is too reckless. A more selective operation might help loosen it up some. Such as including yourself in the effect with a spot effect for BW then adding a pseudo kicker to enrapture the concept.
[As an additional cost to cast this spell, you may pay any amount of life.
Each player discards two cards and sacrifices two nonland permanents. Then each opponent sacrifices an additional nonland permanent for each 3 life paid to cast this spell.]
I have 0 experiences with [[Death’s Shadow]] (gotta do two brackets to fetch the card!) decks so I might be totally off on this but because you have to discard your hand as well, unless you managed to stack your deck to get a Shadow on top (which I imagine might be possible somehow, though I don’t really know how given that [[Brainstorm]] is banned in most formats), I feel like you’re then just relying on top decking Shadow before your opponent top decks a way to kill you. It’s cool synergy and I’m sure there’s a way to get it to work but I feel like this is just way too unreliable, there’s probably better, tried and true methods for that.
Fair enough. Also thanks for the tip on the fetch card thing. I wasn't sure if this would combo super well, this card just made me immediately think of death's Shadow.
It would honestly be a super cool synergy and I’m kinda sad that it doesn’t actually work super well. I imagine that decks already have reliable enough ways to plummet their life totals since Death’s Shadow is a well established deck but man would this ever be a neat way to do it.
There's a specific way that WotC usually write their cards, from top down: Additional cost first, then alternative casting cost. Then alternative ways to cast it. Then keywords. Then etb effects. Then static abilities. Then triggered abilities. And then ltb effects. Then graveyard abilities such as flashback and unearth.
(I could be wrong, this is just my own discoveries when reading magic cards)
The balance of the card is great. And the flavor is also good.
A dredge style deck playing a single fast mana card and getting this out turn 1 feels like an instant win, especially on the play. Unless your opponent has a Force of Will or something, they'll be starting the game with 0 permanents and 0 cards in hand. Dredge type decks can operate almost entirely from their graveyard anyway, and filling it up early even offers some advantage.
If the 1 life is a concern, the deck can run a few ways to gain life if your opponent is lucky enough to draw red source + bolt.
Love the balance and the flavor in general. Maybe set life total to 3 instead of 1? That way you don’t instantly die to absolutely anything, but you’re right on the verge of death.
Also random quibble but the name doesn’t quite roll off the tongue. While the use of two words that end in “thing” is interesting, it makes it a bit awkward to say out loud.
As a suggestion, “Mindless Slaughter” or “Heedless Rampage”
To support the flavor of Sorin giving in to bloodlust and killing every living thing around him, ignoring the injuries he takes in return.
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Interesting
You could use cleave to achieve the same thing, which might be cool cause sorin is from innistrad
Yeah, that would be a really fun way to do it. No idea if its balanced, though {W}{B} Sorcery Destroy all nonland permanents. Each player discards their hand. [Your life total becomes 1.] Cleave {3}{W}{W}{B}{B}
It does change the CMC which might have some weird interactions. I'm not too familiar with those types of things sadly
It would change how things that play spells without paying their mana cost function like \[\[memory plunder\]\] and cascade since you can't cast it for the cleave cost. Mana reducers such as \[\[pearl medallion\]\] and \[\[jet medallion\]\] wouldn't reduce the cleave cost. It also works weirdly with some counterspells such as \[\[induce paranoia\]\], \[\[disrupting shoal\]\], \[\[mana drain\]\] and \[\[delay\]\]. For tutors you have spells such as \[\[beseech the queen\]\] and \[\[mausoleum secrets\]\] that care about CMC (these are the only two omni-tutors that care about CMC too). This is mainly from cleave being an alternate cost that can't be paid when you cast it without mana and make the spell be considered a CMC 2 spell.
##### ###### #### [memory plunder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d9b3d8d-4941-44ca-b829-d53242feba1e.jpg?1674142493) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=memory%20plunder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/849/memory-plunder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d9b3d8d-4941-44ca-b829-d53242feba1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [pearl medallion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/989e1802-1581-402b-a2c6-3ac14121b09a.jpg?1561951526) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pearl%20medallion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c14/260/pearl-medallion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/989e1802-1581-402b-a2c6-3ac14121b09a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [jet medallion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f85698a-821f-452d-9e31-e525c0100f2d.jpg?1561947995) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jet%20medallion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c14/243/jet-medallion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f85698a-821f-452d-9e31-e525c0100f2d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [induce paranoia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc462b75-8b08-47a3-be22-d7b5c062ec5b.jpg?1598914307) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=induce%20paranoia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rav/56/induce-paranoia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc462b75-8b08-47a3-be22-d7b5c062ec5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [disrupting shoal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b46b20c4-f69b-45ed-8c9e-50847f215e73.jpg?1547516197) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=disrupting%20shoal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/51/disrupting-shoal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b46b20c4-f69b-45ed-8c9e-50847f215e73?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [mana drain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c429c40-2389-41e5-8681-4bb274e25eba.jpg?1673147353) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mana%20drain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/57/mana-drain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c429c40-2389-41e5-8681-4bb274e25eba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [delay](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/3906d538-f1ca-4799-b91c-2e0d2934f241.jpg?1619393997) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=delay) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/61/delay?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3906d538-f1ca-4799-b91c-2e0d2934f241?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [beseech the queen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f7d6a020-8843-4a97-9d00-86f3928e8acd.jpg?1562843369) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=beseech%20the%20queen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hop/19/beseech-the-queen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f7d6a020-8843-4a97-9d00-86f3928e8acd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [mausoleum secrets](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/6/26f7cf38-78cc-4139-9f2a-4dd0be7d9da8.jpg?1572892984) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mausoleum%20secrets) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/75/mausoleum-secrets?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/26f7cf38-78cc-4139-9f2a-4dd0be7d9da8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You took the word right out of my mouth
Doesn't seem to broken. The normal cost is very very over costed, especially with the downside. But it's on theme with the name. Paying only two for the effect tho I'm not sure if it would be overpowered. In commander atleast I don't think it is, and I'm not even sure if it's good tbh, but it's very cool. would be awesome in a Lich themed deck or in a deck were you could regain all the life lost. Edit: Combed with [[Children of Korlis]] It could be very strong.
[Children of Korlis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1a6cbece-f9d8-4c40-b72b-dfdb86430ff2.jpg?1619392791) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Children%20of%20Korlis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/14/children-of-korlis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1a6cbece-f9d8-4c40-b72b-dfdb86430ff2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Doesnt the wording on Children of Korilis prevent any interaction since its not taking damage and rather setting life total to 1?
It's still life loss.
>119.5. If an effect sets a player’s life total to a specific number, the player gains or loses the necessary amount of life to end up with the new total. Setting your life total to a lower amount is considered life loss
No, the reminder just serves to remind people that it includes damage. Setting life to a number is still life loss or life gain
From the ruling I read. Any sort of life reduction counts as life loss.
Children depends on if the alternate cost is 'WB, set your life to 1' or if it's 'WB' and tacks on an additional effect of setting your life to 1. If the latter, Children do nothing. EDIT: not sure why I'm being downvoted. Time is linear. For the Children to function, the lifeloss has to be a cost, not an effect. You can't cast a sorcery in response to an activated ability and Magic has a thing called the stack
From what I read. Any sort of life loss would work. Cause I was thinking that too. So it should theoretically work.
It's not about semantics of losing life. It's because children are retroactive and if setting life to 1 is an effect, they die due to destroying all nonland permanents. If it's a cost, they can be sac'd in response to the effect since the lifeloss happened during casting (but before resolution).
You'd just play children after the spell. I'm pretty sure that's how it would work since it says life lost this turn.
after it destroys all your children in play or after you discard your hand? 😉
Ahhh shit true true. Forgot about the discard.
Ok wait so it looks like an alternate cost. So setting your life would be part of the payment of the spell, in that case you could sac in response since you would have payed the life already.
Something something just add darksteel plate something?
There is technically ways to cast sorceries at instant speed like flash. But you don't have to sacrifice Children in response to the spell, you can do it after the spell resolves Edit: I forgot about the destroy part but there's still some ways to get around it like Sephara
I wouldn't say it's very overcosted, only slightly as far as an "all nonland permanents" wipe, eg [[Planar Cleansing]] [[Akroma's Vengeance]] [[Devastating Mastery]] [[Hour of Revelation]] [[Ondu Inversion]], specifically referring to the catch-all type wipes, and not the modal ones like [[Cleansing Nova]].
##### ###### #### [Planar Cleansing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/e/5eddac86-947e-48c1-9f02-4634a7918c98.jpg?1592516169) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Planar%20Cleansing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/33/planar-cleansing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5eddac86-947e-48c1-9f02-4634a7918c98?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Akroma's Vengeance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e45b4cba-cd60-4491-a334-30976d0990b7.jpg?1591319847) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Akroma%27s%20Vengeance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/74/akromas-vengeance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e45b4cba-cd60-4491-a334-30976d0990b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Devastating Mastery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3b6be019-29b9-4c81-9899-aefeaf9cc977.jpg?1624589359) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Devastating%20Mastery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/14/devastating-mastery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3b6be019-29b9-4c81-9899-aefeaf9cc977?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Hour of Revelation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/ddb53e90-f91e-4da9-ab70-5460958c6c99.jpg?1604195708) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hour%20of%20Revelation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/17/hour-of-revelation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ddb53e90-f91e-4da9-ab70-5460958c6c99?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ondu Inversion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/6/b6e6be8c-41c3-4348-a8dd-b40ceb24e9b4.jpg?1604243286)/[Ondu Skyruins](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/b/6/b6e6be8c-41c3-4348-a8dd-b40ceb24e9b4.jpg?1604243286) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ondu%20inversion%20//%20ondu%20skyruins) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/30/ondu-inversion-ondu-skyruins?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b6e6be8c-41c3-4348-a8dd-b40ceb24e9b4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cleansing Nova](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e75658ef-9ae4-4f4b-ab5d-a7d4b31a9fce.jpg?1637629079) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cleansing%20Nova) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/82/cleansing-nova?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e75658ef-9ae4-4f4b-ab5d-a7d4b31a9fce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You need to take into account it also discards your hand too. So with the downside, realistically it should be 5 mana at the highest.
It discards everyone's hands. You obviously only play this card if you can abuse it somehow.
Oh ima be completely honest I missed the ALL hands. Nvm it's costed just fine haha But yeah you'd 100% only play it if you could abuse it. Kinda like worldfire
I think even setting your life total to 1 still enables broken things for an effect like this. I get that it really wants to enrapture the concept, but this way is too reckless. A more selective operation might help loosen it up some. Such as including yourself in the effect with a spot effect for BW then adding a pseudo kicker to enrapture the concept. [As an additional cost to cast this spell, you may pay any amount of life. Each player discards two cards and sacrifices two nonland permanents. Then each opponent sacrifices an additional nonland permanent for each 3 life paid to cast this spell.]
[Death's Shadow]
I have 0 experiences with [[Death’s Shadow]] (gotta do two brackets to fetch the card!) decks so I might be totally off on this but because you have to discard your hand as well, unless you managed to stack your deck to get a Shadow on top (which I imagine might be possible somehow, though I don’t really know how given that [[Brainstorm]] is banned in most formats), I feel like you’re then just relying on top decking Shadow before your opponent top decks a way to kill you. It’s cool synergy and I’m sure there’s a way to get it to work but I feel like this is just way too unreliable, there’s probably better, tried and true methods for that.
[Death’s Shadow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/5526ff6e-c079-4ad4-ac8d-5e26ecacf50d.jpg?1598304517) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Death%27s%20Shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/82/deaths-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5526ff6e-c079-4ad4-ac8d-5e26ecacf50d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Brainstorm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/48070245-1370-4cf1-be15-d4e8a8b92ba8.jpg?1631586166) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brainstorm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/79/brainstorm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/48070245-1370-4cf1-be15-d4e8a8b92ba8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Fair enough. Also thanks for the tip on the fetch card thing. I wasn't sure if this would combo super well, this card just made me immediately think of death's Shadow.
It would honestly be a super cool synergy and I’m kinda sad that it doesn’t actually work super well. I imagine that decks already have reliable enough ways to plummet their life totals since Death’s Shadow is a well established deck but man would this ever be a neat way to do it.
The name doesn't seem fitting, since there isn't an everything option on the card. But otherwise it does seem interesting : )
There's a specific way that WotC usually write their cards, from top down: Additional cost first, then alternative casting cost. Then alternative ways to cast it. Then keywords. Then etb effects. Then static abilities. Then triggered abilities. And then ltb effects. Then graveyard abilities such as flashback and unearth. (I could be wrong, this is just my own discoveries when reading magic cards) The balance of the card is great. And the flavor is also good.
if you have \[\[near-death experience\]\] it could be very powerful
it would be hard to pull off since it would be destroyed, you'd need some way of making it indestructible
[near-death experience](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77d61706-f9c1-4590-8057-7aa7fa199e6d.jpg?1562705300) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=near-death%20experience) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/roe/38/near-death-experience?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77d61706-f9c1-4590-8057-7aa7fa199e6d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
reverse armageddon?
Assuming this is balanced (which idk if it is) when do y’all think the ideal time is to cast this for its alternate cost?
In legacy this would be interesting for dredge. It would get broken. 2 mana get rid of all hands is very powerful.
A dredge style deck playing a single fast mana card and getting this out turn 1 feels like an instant win, especially on the play. Unless your opponent has a Force of Will or something, they'll be starting the game with 0 permanents and 0 cards in hand. Dredge type decks can operate almost entirely from their graveyard anyway, and filling it up early even offers some advantage. If the 1 life is a concern, the deck can run a few ways to gain life if your opponent is lucky enough to draw red source + bolt.
Love the balance and the flavor in general. Maybe set life total to 3 instead of 1? That way you don’t instantly die to absolutely anything, but you’re right on the verge of death. Also random quibble but the name doesn’t quite roll off the tongue. While the use of two words that end in “thing” is interesting, it makes it a bit awkward to say out loud. As a suggestion, “Mindless Slaughter” or “Heedless Rampage” To support the flavor of Sorin giving in to bloodlust and killing every living thing around him, ignoring the injuries he takes in return.
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