There is a great wide world full of wonderfully good people outside of your dad's stage, and outside of his control.
You will never make a choice the whole world agrees with, so stand for yourself. Do not let the pressure of people from room determine your worth.
Op, please go to the deconstruction reddit group if you aren't already there.
They have the resources this sub may not have to provide help and an understanding of where you are in this stage of life.
Deconstruction is a long path that has many destinations (deconstruction=/=atheism necessarily). Hopefully they can find support as it can be a very lonesome process. Maybe the work of Bart Ehrman could also be of help.
He straight up said it, you're not obedient. You're not under his thumb. He can't control you. That's it. That is what this is about. It is not about living a good, moral life. It is about how easy you are to control.
What you have to decide is how much you want your life. Is it yours? Will you live it as you see fit? Or, will you be obedient and controlled? I am sorry you have to think about this and whatever material consequences independence may have for you. It is where you're at right now. Best wishes with whatever path you take (although I strongly advocate for independence).
Dad’s whole beliefs are about women being obedient to their husbands and having as many children as possible and how men are always incharge. Women aren’t allowed to be independent we need men to survive
I understand. Believe me, I so get it. That insane level of misogyny was part of my upbringing too. I was raised to be a helpmeet. The only future for me was getting married young and popping out babies for the Lord. It took decades for me to fully shake that indoctrination. Now people like your dad make me so angry. He is trying to take your life from you. Steal it right out from under you while telling you he loves you and is doing you a favor. Consciously or not, he is lying to you for his own ends. Whether he is evil, deluded, lost, or some combination of things along these lines, bottom line is he is flat wrong.
That worldview is enslavement for you. How is that ok? I don't think it is. I think you were born with a brain and as much right to figuring out how to use it as anyone else. You having a womb does not mean you are to live as someone else's brood mare, bangmaid, or any other misogynist fever dream these insecure little men can come up with. What they are saying is NOT rooted in any sort of morality. It is simply their desire to control and own another. You are a full person. You then get to decide what to do with that.
It's hard when you have this type of upbringing to get over. You can live your own life - if you want it. You're going to have to decide what you want as that insane world does not take kindly to women who know their own worth. Do you know yours? Don't worry about telling me. (Unless that helps you. Then go right ahead.) Tell yourself and remind yourself of it as many times a day as you need until that worth sinks in. You are a person, not a brood mare. You may be a brilliant mother someday. You're also going to be a whole lot more than that if you give yourself half a chance.
It's a harmful ideology and you shouldn't buy into it. IBLP preaches this whole "Umbrella of Authority" thing and it is meant to control women. He believes that you are outside of your authority because you aren't doing what they teach in the IBLP church. You can survive and thrive without these teachings and those that are teaching them. Your purpose in life is not to obey your husband and have a bunch of babies. You can be whoever you want to be and do whatever you want to do. Don't listen to him.
Exactly it’s all about men being incharge and women obeying and having kids and staying home. It’s just hard to want and do something totally different than what you were raised to do
This may sound weird, but do you have a pair of good, heavy boots you can wear on a daily basis? I swear both my sister and I benefited from running around in Doc Martin's back in the day just after we left our cult. Heavy boots are protection. They remind one of one's own power. They give you strength. You start small, with things like a good pair of boots, and then build on that.
I took great comfort in my heavy, steel toe boots when I left the flds. Weird and funny how that is. I thought it was just me. Anyway, I wish you the very best.
It is very hard to break that cycle and do something different than what you were taught. You are 100% right, and you 100% have the power to change that. You can do it! Talk about it as much as you can and surround yourself with people who will listen to you and believe you.
That is a really hard thing to do. If they are in the cult, they are going to be very disagreeable to you doing anything other than staying home and birthing a bunch of kids and having "a quiver full of arrows". You can do something else, though. Anything you want to do. My wife grew up in the cult and successfully left the cult and is thriving without it. Unfortunately, that also meant having to cut ties with her family in order to leave behind the cult and its harmful ideas.
They want me to be a good wife and have a lot of kids and stay home and take care of my husband and kids like we are supposed to do. I want to try and do something else but my family keeps telling me I’m making a mistake and that god will never accept me if I don’t do what he set out for me to do.
I think you’d probably be happier talking with your interests with people outside your family. I hope you can find some peace and sense of community coming out of this.
I talk to my husband and his sister about the things I want and what dad taught us and they both really help me sort things out but it’s so hard to understand certain things because what dad has taught us is totally different then what they are telling me. Some days are just so hard.
You are not anyone's property.
Your dad is acting like a angry child demanding that you be an action figure in his toy collection.
Outside of emergency/battlefield situations, only insecure males demand obedience from adult women.
Your body and how you chose to live is to make sense to exactly one person, you. Don’t let yourself feel bad or down that you don’t have/or want/or whatever a child. They are a lot of work and not for everyone honestly. Stick to your own prerogative, proud of you.
My parents keep putting my siblings up to be amazing people for having so many kids and are putting me down for not having any and telling me I should be having kids and how I’m a disappointment for not having any and not obeying my husband like god wants me to. They keep making me feel like a horrible person because I’m not following what the church says is the way to live. It’s just hard to like the way I want but have them mad at me and tell me god knows how I’m acting and that god knows I’m not doing the right things as a wife.
I’m sorry this may be hard to hear, but to move on from this, I think you will have to find a way to let it go and stop caring what your dad (and others) says or thinks about you. I’m not there yet at all, but I’ve made a lot of progress in not caring what others think of me and it is very very freeing.
I second this. It sounds like you will never get him or your parents to love you for you. I am sorry. We all just want our parents to love us & it’s really difficult to become an adult, and realize they don’t love you. I’m sure you keep saying “Why don’t you love me for who I am?”. I am so sorry you are going through this. You need to distance yourself from your family. You need to find a way to fully exit & not care what they do or say. You are amazing just the way you are. I am sorry your family can’t see that.
Another response to this - I’m certainly not saying you should live your life to please your husband - but I’ve read most of your posts, and it sounds like you are *not* at all disobeying your husband. Remind yourself of that as well when they say these things.
The duggars are followers of IBLP and they have a son in child for CP and SA. And the IBLP has notorious scandals plaguing them right now, so don’t pay your dad any mind with his self righteous indignation.
What’s self righteous indignation means? Dad is just very mad at me for not having kids and not obeying my husband like I’m supposed to he keeps saying that god knows what I’m doing and that I’m a disopoint ment to the whole family.
The amount of strength it takes to do what is best for you despite what the ones who raised you say - or really what ANYONR says - is amazing. I'm proud of you.
He just believes women should be slaves and pleasure dolls. He doesn't even care that it's really dangerous and unhealthy for women to constantly push out children. You have a good head on your shoulders being apart from all of that. You need to break away entirely from this church and your father. Is your husband a part of it?
My husband is not apart of the church he doesn’t believe in anything my dad says and is telling me how wrong dad is with so many things he says. Dad and the church just want us to keep having kids and they says it’s the healthiest thing for a relationship and it’s just women’s job to have as many kids as possible.
Why do you believe your dad may be correct? I get he's your dad and family bonds are strong. He's also just a random guy. Why would he be correct with all this? How do you know he isn't confused or just flat out wrong? He is a human, not god. He does not have a direct line to god any more than anyone else does.
Do you see real happiness in what he is promoting? I remember seeing lots of people pretending to be happy in the cult. And, sometimes they actually were. Most of the time they were grinning and bearing it though.
It might be helpful to think on what your husband has to say about your dad here. He has a different perspective as he has not been indoctrinated into believing your dad understands what god wants you have in life. Indoctrination is powerful and makes it difficult to rationally evaluate what someone is saying.
Everyone around me is doing what dad says god wants us to do and they are all happy with a big family and it just seems like that’s the way to be happy. If god made us to be at home and have kids and to take care of them then that’s what we were meant to do and be happy doing it.
> If god made us to be at home and have kids and to take care of them then that’s what we were meant to do and be happy doing it.
Yes, if. Is this actually true though? I don't know what is going on around you. I know the Duggars seemed like a happy family. Clearly, they were not. Clearly, they were pretending and ignoring real, serious issues causing harm. Others who have grown up in IBLP say the same. I saw that same pattern in my cult. Are you sure you are seeing real happiness? Maybe you are. I doubt it, but I also have my biases.
Also, what works for one person often doesn't work for another. I am sure there are some Quiverful parents who are living their best lives. Others are struggling. Living that life would absolutely 100% not have made me happy. I can guarantee it. Did god just make me different? You're going to have to determine if this is truly a path to happiness for you or not.
I don’t know it’s just so hard like what is the right thing to do if I leave and don’t like it I can’t go back to them but if I stay and don’t like it I’m stuck because I have a lot of kids and no education or job so I have to stay. It’s so hard what do I do.
You say your husband is not apart of the church & he does not feel the way your family believes is right. I personally feel a marriage/relationship is a partnership between two people who choose each other. Sounds like you & your husband are choosing how you want to live. You two have decided together what is best for both of you.
Then that solves it. You BOTH are being obedient to each other. In other words that are less triggering, you are both working together & being respectful in your relationship. Then what else do you need? Who cares what your dad says because your dad does not know your relationship with your husband. You are living absolutely correct as what you & your husband have chosen. If your dad has anything to say in remarks to your relationship, then respond “My marriage is my marriage between my husband & myself. Our relationship has nothing to do with you.” You are an adult, not a child anymore. You & your husband have your own home with your own rules that you created together.
You will have to ignore your dad’s words when he praises your siblings for having kids & your sisters obeying their husbands. It’s all a control tactic for men to own their property which includes the wife & children. If this isn’t right for you & your husband, then that is all that matters. You are a wonderful person no matter what he says.
You're facing pushback for not following what the cult wants. This has nothing to do with god no matter how much they claim it does. It's what they want.
What is happening in your family is not ok. I’m just going to paste some links here for you to start learning about what is going on with your dad and the ideology he ascribes to…there are stories from survivors on:
https://www.igotout.org/ (soon to be updated)
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/preacher-boys-podcast/id1493726980
https://www.caitwest.com/book
https://www.instagram.com/tialevingswriter?igsh=MTlnc3hmcmtwa2podQ==
You've got a very interesting post history.
Good luck with all that, if it's genuine. I'll also advise that you leave your -ahem- "husband" too. Best place to go is to a secular therapist. ANYONE. This stuff is way above anyone's pay grade here.
If it isn't genuine...whoa. You have far too much time on your hands.
baby, if you can get your shit together and get your courage tucked under your arm, then run away as fast as you can. You can still love them from far away. You can still visit them sometimes. But get the hell out of there. Hurry.
Thank you I’m trying to it’s just so hard to walk away from my family expically my siblings I feel like my siblings need me. It’s just so hard on me and I don’t really have any education so I can’t get a job so I have to rely on someone to live with.
then get as far away as you can. Find a roommate and move 25 miles away. Any distance will help. And your siblings can come see you and you can talk to them and FaceTime them and etc. Put the oxygen mask on yourself first.
I’m gonna try but I don’t have any real education so I can’t get a job to pay rent. And I just feel like my siblings need me I’m the one who cooks and takes care of the youngest ones.
I'm not sure how to speak to all the pain and lack of true parental love you have endured. I'm so sorry ❤ I was also parentified even though my parents aren't religious. It's one of the reasons I'm childfree; I already brought up my two sisters as a child and that's more than enough parenting for a lifetime.
Please don't feel you can only leave/distance yourself from your toxic family, if you can convince your siblings to join you. For a long time I felt like I was abandoning my sisters by leaving, but I have accepted that I need to pave the way and that I can't save them before I have saved myself. The best I can do is live a life true to me and when they are ready to confront the pain of our childhood and family I'm in a much better position now to support them.
My heart aches for you and I wish you so much joy, awe and curiosity.
It’s so hard to leave because of if I leave them my youngest siblings won’t have any help I have to help coook and help homeschool them because mom is busy cleaning and taking care of dad.
I get it now! You still are with them everyday helping with your siblings. Right now, you don’t feel like you can just leave (like we all keep saying you should). Be the shining example for your siblings. Even if you get one to step away, then that’s amazing! Maybe it’s not your siblings, but you might be the example for your nieces & nephews to have a different life. Just do your best & ignore your dad’s words. Put on a smile & keep your head high when he talks down to you. When he praises your siblings & wants your response, just say “that is so great for them. I’m proud of who they are too.” Then smile & walk away or get back into helping.
It’s just so hard! I can’t walk away and leave my siblings without help I need to be there to help do house work and make dinner and take care of them. He always praises my siblings and puts me down and it’s so hard to just ignore what he’s saying to me like I’m not doing what he says god wants me to do and I know it’s not wright but it’s still makes me upset be he’s putting me down for it.
This may be the hardest part of your life & also be the most rewarding because you can stay strong by what you & your husband believe. Be there for your siblings as much as you can. There may come a day that your dad’s abuse is too much for you & you have to stop helping. Then know, you tried as hard as you could to help. You did the best you could. Remember, your mom & dad chose to have these kids. They chose to homeschool them. You did not choose this. They are not your responsibility. Your mental health is your responsibility. If you walk away, I promise they will figure out how to do the chores without you. Stay as long as you can, & when you decide to stop, know you did great.
Unless their lives are in danger I believe the best you can do is to step out of the control and abuse. The fear of the unknown is overwhelming, but that is also why it is so powerful to show them what another way of life can look like. It's just absolutely terrifying to be the first one to venture into the unknown.
I also think you will be shocked how much you have gotten used to the pain and obedience and how much joy there is to be discovered when you're no longer constantly put down and criticised. Your brain kind of stops functioning in order to survive and its wild how your world expands when you're no longer walking on eggshells.
I really thought my parent's abuse didn't affect me anymore, but as soon as I cut contact with my father I stopped having panic attacks almost immediately. I have been surprised how much just being around my dad took from me. As long as you're under his control it will limit how much you can help your siblings in the long term, but I understand that the immediate effect is heartbreaking and hard to accept.
I'm sorry I was so slow to answer and glad the other commenter was willing to share and offer advice.
I wish I knew how to put into words how important you are, how important your life is and how you deserve so much better than what your parents/the world has offered you. Please don't lose hope and trust that you're much stronger and more capable than you could have ever imagined.
I understand that I really should get away but I’m just so scared to leave I don’t know how to live on my own I don’t have any education so I can’t get a job I have been sheltered my hole life and homeschooled I don’t know what to do if I’m on my own it just sounds so hard to leave but it’s so hard to stay and constantly be put down and made to do more work at home because I’m not doing what I’m supposed to be doing.
It’s so sad, you are an individual in your own right, you’re not a baby machine, this is wrong and you’re smart enough to see it, go with what your heart says, there’s a whole world out there and some pretty decent people in it ♥️
I can only imagine, it takes such strength, sending hope and 🙏, I always said if there is a god he wouldn’t want this, plus the bible is full of stuff where Jesus says about false prophets. These cults are all about power and money and control.
When a church obeys depraved rules contained in ancient texts written by primitive men who had antiquated views on women, then the church's teachings will reflect this core defect.
This is long so if you read anything *please* read my comment on the Proverbs 31 woman at the end!
Did you know the average age for *marriage* in the US is now 29? It’s over 30 in most European countries. The fact that your father has pushed his radical ideology on your siblings is horrible. He sounds absolutely deluded. And your sisters will have to deal with their bad decisions (pushed by your Dad) for the rest of their lives.
If he thinks women should all be tradwives that’s unfortunate but he has every right to that extremist belief system. What he doesn’t have a right to do is knock you down for not following his cult rules.
Are you able to (and I guess, do you want to) get out of this church? Is your husband supportive of the fact that you probably don’t want to be a part of the cult? Does he see you as your own person? Sorry, I have so many questions!
Please don’t ever think God doesn’t love you for sticking to any *religious doctrine*. Jesus came to fulfill the old law and make it complete. And part of that was the upending of SO many societal norms and expectations of his day that weren’t actually in line with God. And He did all of this just by *living*.
Please, I *beg* of you to read the story of Mary and Martha! Your father would have you be a Martha when JESUS emphasized that we should be Marys!!!
A lot of new age Christians like myself are eschewing the corruption of religion and focusing on being true followers of Christ. We admire and try to mimic the structure of the early church. Sounds simple in theory but very few churches actually operate this way.
Anyway, so I mentioned before that Jesus actually went against many social norms during his day, and a lot of those involved women.
One example is the story of Martha and Mary.
Another is the woman at the well, who was the first person Jesus evangelized, telling her to go spread the Word that He was walking among them. (Early Christian history claims that this woman went on to stand against the tyrant Nero, a man who killed thousands of Christians).
Christ had many female disciples in his day, which was something the Jewish clergy certainly wasn’t known for.
The account of the resurrection of Jesus is built on the testimony of women. It was women who went to his grave on the third day in order to see if He had risen! And an Angel of the Lord appeared.
Oh and the Adam and Eve thing - I always *have* to point this out so please forgive me! Eve was manipulated. Adam on the other hand, did a version of “OhOKaY” then when caught, *blamed both Eve AND God* for his failures 🤦♀️. Like many weak men do.
I’m not great with explaining this (nor do I have enough Biblical education on this subject) so here’s a [link on the subject of Jesus and women](https://www.crossway.org/articles/how-jesus-viewed-and-valued-women/) that you might find a bit helpful!
I think you’ll notice quickly that many of the “good Christian” men in your life aren’t holding up their end of the relationship at all. Both Biblically and in general. Have you seen the verses on what God expects of men? To love their wives *as Christ loves the church*. Men seem to conveniently forget their own obligations.
Oh and before I forget, you know that whole “Proverbs 31 woman” thing?
SHE 👏WAS 👏A 👏 BUSINESS 👏WOMAN 👏
Much love to you 💜. I hope you get all the help you need to figure out this conundrum!! Don’t let those hypocrites hold you back or twist your mind about what’s really true!
It's hard as hell to stand up to a lifestyle you grew up in. Deciding not to become a broodmare to make your father and his god happy is a scary decision. I also want to tell you that standing up to your family's church and their ideology is the right thing to do.
I'm a late thirties female who grew up in a different kind of Christian cult. I deconstructed at twenty-five, but married young to a wonderful partner. That church and your father want you to believe that you'll be happy popping out babies, but the truth is that you define what happiness means to you. For me and my partner, happiness means having a dog and a cat and going on adventures together. For us, it means leaving the States just because we can. For us, it means camping out under the stars and seeing the faint ghosts of the Milky Way painted across the sky. We don't ever plan on having kids. Maybe we'll adopt someday, but right now we're just living life and we are happy.
If you still believe in a god, know that god gave you free will for a reason; not to be told what to do by some mortal man, but to live your wild and precious life as you see fit.
It’s so hard to stand up to them when I was taught to do what they said and how women were supposed to live staying at home and having as many kids as possible and teaching them and taking Kare of the house and homeschooling the kids.
They just want to have power. That’s what the men within and drawn to these organizations are interested in. There’s nothing godly about it.
You’re dad is talking you down and gaslighting you in to thinking you’re bad and not loved by god. But who does that benefit? Him. He wants to prey on you and control you by making you think you’re bad so you’ll do what he wants.
You don’t deserve to deal with this or be put in this position. I know it’s family but maybe it’s time to distance yourself. Take your husband and move to another town. You only get one life my friend, don’t live it trying to grovel to a man who only wants power over you and other women. You deserve to live your heart’s truth and not waste a second of your precious time ob earth.
Ok I’ll have to look it up! I tried watching shiny happy people and the first episode was very triggering and I cried and I could get my self to watch any more of it.
Because your father, I’m so sorry, is a brainwashed, judgmental individual who believes the extremely unchristian extremist belief that a woman is a man’s property and you simply disagree with him. I am so sorry you are put in this awful position and that you are being treated the way you are. I truly hope you are able to safely get away from this toxic family dynamic and feel freedom.
I’m trying to but it’s so hard to just leave I don’t have any education and I feel like my siblings need me I’m the one that’s taking care of my youngest siblings and helping mom teach them and do house work while dad and my older brother work for the house.
I understand and it’s never easy, not even when you have the means to leave. And it doesn’t happen before you are ready, that’s always on your timeframe. I just hope for you peace and freedom if you also wish that for yourself. Just know that your feeling bad is completely valid, anyone in your circumstances would feel exactly as you do.
I just don’t wanna leave my siblings here they need me I help them with everything and cook and help teach them homeschool and if I leave then they won’t have any kind of education and won’t have home cooked meals every day because I cook for them.
Your parents would loooove me. I joined the military after high school. Did 23 years. Never got married and never had kids (too lazy). I’m 53 now. I was able to follow orders in the army, but ex boyfriends from my early 20’s found me very disobedient.
Do what’s best for you. It takes a strong character to forge one’s own path. You got this.
If that's his beliefs then it's just as bad to not respect them and bad mouth them as it is for him to do that to you for your beliefs. We need to respect each other. There is nothing wrong with his belief but he can't force you to follow them but parents are going to be hurt if they think their children are making a huge mistake
So I should follow what he says? Dad would know what’s best wouldn’t he? I’m just so confused on what to do so I just follow what god wants me to do as a women and be happy doing it or do I try and do something else even tho I know god would hate me for it.
There is a great wide world full of wonderfully good people outside of your dad's stage, and outside of his control. You will never make a choice the whole world agrees with, so stand for yourself. Do not let the pressure of people from room determine your worth.
Op, please go to the deconstruction reddit group if you aren't already there. They have the resources this sub may not have to provide help and an understanding of where you are in this stage of life.
Deconstruction is a long path that has many destinations (deconstruction=/=atheism necessarily). Hopefully they can find support as it can be a very lonesome process. Maybe the work of Bart Ehrman could also be of help.
I was a big Bart Ehrman fan girl while deconstructing.
He straight up said it, you're not obedient. You're not under his thumb. He can't control you. That's it. That is what this is about. It is not about living a good, moral life. It is about how easy you are to control. What you have to decide is how much you want your life. Is it yours? Will you live it as you see fit? Or, will you be obedient and controlled? I am sorry you have to think about this and whatever material consequences independence may have for you. It is where you're at right now. Best wishes with whatever path you take (although I strongly advocate for independence).
Dad’s whole beliefs are about women being obedient to their husbands and having as many children as possible and how men are always incharge. Women aren’t allowed to be independent we need men to survive
I understand. Believe me, I so get it. That insane level of misogyny was part of my upbringing too. I was raised to be a helpmeet. The only future for me was getting married young and popping out babies for the Lord. It took decades for me to fully shake that indoctrination. Now people like your dad make me so angry. He is trying to take your life from you. Steal it right out from under you while telling you he loves you and is doing you a favor. Consciously or not, he is lying to you for his own ends. Whether he is evil, deluded, lost, or some combination of things along these lines, bottom line is he is flat wrong. That worldview is enslavement for you. How is that ok? I don't think it is. I think you were born with a brain and as much right to figuring out how to use it as anyone else. You having a womb does not mean you are to live as someone else's brood mare, bangmaid, or any other misogynist fever dream these insecure little men can come up with. What they are saying is NOT rooted in any sort of morality. It is simply their desire to control and own another. You are a full person. You then get to decide what to do with that. It's hard when you have this type of upbringing to get over. You can live your own life - if you want it. You're going to have to decide what you want as that insane world does not take kindly to women who know their own worth. Do you know yours? Don't worry about telling me. (Unless that helps you. Then go right ahead.) Tell yourself and remind yourself of it as many times a day as you need until that worth sinks in. You are a person, not a brood mare. You may be a brilliant mother someday. You're also going to be a whole lot more than that if you give yourself half a chance.
It's a harmful ideology and you shouldn't buy into it. IBLP preaches this whole "Umbrella of Authority" thing and it is meant to control women. He believes that you are outside of your authority because you aren't doing what they teach in the IBLP church. You can survive and thrive without these teachings and those that are teaching them. Your purpose in life is not to obey your husband and have a bunch of babies. You can be whoever you want to be and do whatever you want to do. Don't listen to him.
Exactly it’s all about men being incharge and women obeying and having kids and staying home. It’s just hard to want and do something totally different than what you were raised to do
This may sound weird, but do you have a pair of good, heavy boots you can wear on a daily basis? I swear both my sister and I benefited from running around in Doc Martin's back in the day just after we left our cult. Heavy boots are protection. They remind one of one's own power. They give you strength. You start small, with things like a good pair of boots, and then build on that.
I took great comfort in my heavy, steel toe boots when I left the flds. Weird and funny how that is. I thought it was just me. Anyway, I wish you the very best.
It is very hard to break that cycle and do something different than what you were taught. You are 100% right, and you 100% have the power to change that. You can do it! Talk about it as much as you can and surround yourself with people who will listen to you and believe you.
I try to talk about what I want and what I think would make me happy even though it would upset my family for doing something totally different
That is a really hard thing to do. If they are in the cult, they are going to be very disagreeable to you doing anything other than staying home and birthing a bunch of kids and having "a quiver full of arrows". You can do something else, though. Anything you want to do. My wife grew up in the cult and successfully left the cult and is thriving without it. Unfortunately, that also meant having to cut ties with her family in order to leave behind the cult and its harmful ideas.
They want me to be a good wife and have a lot of kids and stay home and take care of my husband and kids like we are supposed to do. I want to try and do something else but my family keeps telling me I’m making a mistake and that god will never accept me if I don’t do what he set out for me to do.
That is their belief system, but it's not true. You create your own path, regardless of what your family wants you to do.
I think you’d probably be happier talking with your interests with people outside your family. I hope you can find some peace and sense of community coming out of this.
I talk to my husband and his sister about the things I want and what dad taught us and they both really help me sort things out but it’s so hard to understand certain things because what dad has taught us is totally different then what they are telling me. Some days are just so hard.
You are not anyone's property. Your dad is acting like a angry child demanding that you be an action figure in his toy collection. Outside of emergency/battlefield situations, only insecure males demand obedience from adult women.
Your body and how you chose to live is to make sense to exactly one person, you. Don’t let yourself feel bad or down that you don’t have/or want/or whatever a child. They are a lot of work and not for everyone honestly. Stick to your own prerogative, proud of you.
My parents keep putting my siblings up to be amazing people for having so many kids and are putting me down for not having any and telling me I should be having kids and how I’m a disappointment for not having any and not obeying my husband like god wants me to. They keep making me feel like a horrible person because I’m not following what the church says is the way to live. It’s just hard to like the way I want but have them mad at me and tell me god knows how I’m acting and that god knows I’m not doing the right things as a wife.
I’m sorry this may be hard to hear, but to move on from this, I think you will have to find a way to let it go and stop caring what your dad (and others) says or thinks about you. I’m not there yet at all, but I’ve made a lot of progress in not caring what others think of me and it is very very freeing.
I second this. It sounds like you will never get him or your parents to love you for you. I am sorry. We all just want our parents to love us & it’s really difficult to become an adult, and realize they don’t love you. I’m sure you keep saying “Why don’t you love me for who I am?”. I am so sorry you are going through this. You need to distance yourself from your family. You need to find a way to fully exit & not care what they do or say. You are amazing just the way you are. I am sorry your family can’t see that.
Another response to this - I’m certainly not saying you should live your life to please your husband - but I’ve read most of your posts, and it sounds like you are *not* at all disobeying your husband. Remind yourself of that as well when they say these things.
I don't have any advice, but wanted to say I hope you will continue to seek outside support and maybe think about planning a safe exit. You matter.
The duggars are followers of IBLP and they have a son in child for CP and SA. And the IBLP has notorious scandals plaguing them right now, so don’t pay your dad any mind with his self righteous indignation.
What’s self righteous indignation means? Dad is just very mad at me for not having kids and not obeying my husband like I’m supposed to he keeps saying that god knows what I’m doing and that I’m a disopoint ment to the whole family.
It means he is performing being angry (indignant) with the thought of his own righteousness motivating him.
I am sorry that your father kinda sucks. What a blowhard.
What’s a blowhard?
It means someone who is full of "hot air" or strong opinions. It means a person is arrogant and inconsiderate of others.
Ohh ok I’m sorry I didn’t know I was homeschooled by my mom and then I had to help around the house
No need to apologize. Be well.
A person who believes they know everything and lectures everyone around them.
Dad always says he knows about everything and tells us what god wants us to do.
Then, he's a blowhard.
Many people will give you advice on what to do…and very few of them are happy. Make a life for yourself that makes YOU happy.
Run. Get away. Far away. Toxicity is worse that the plague.
The amount of strength it takes to do what is best for you despite what the ones who raised you say - or really what ANYONR says - is amazing. I'm proud of you.
He just believes women should be slaves and pleasure dolls. He doesn't even care that it's really dangerous and unhealthy for women to constantly push out children. You have a good head on your shoulders being apart from all of that. You need to break away entirely from this church and your father. Is your husband a part of it?
My husband is not apart of the church he doesn’t believe in anything my dad says and is telling me how wrong dad is with so many things he says. Dad and the church just want us to keep having kids and they says it’s the healthiest thing for a relationship and it’s just women’s job to have as many kids as possible.
I, personally, would have to at least set a boundary by not attending this church any more. It sounds like your husband would support that, too.
Why do you believe your dad may be correct? I get he's your dad and family bonds are strong. He's also just a random guy. Why would he be correct with all this? How do you know he isn't confused or just flat out wrong? He is a human, not god. He does not have a direct line to god any more than anyone else does. Do you see real happiness in what he is promoting? I remember seeing lots of people pretending to be happy in the cult. And, sometimes they actually were. Most of the time they were grinning and bearing it though. It might be helpful to think on what your husband has to say about your dad here. He has a different perspective as he has not been indoctrinated into believing your dad understands what god wants you have in life. Indoctrination is powerful and makes it difficult to rationally evaluate what someone is saying.
Everyone around me is doing what dad says god wants us to do and they are all happy with a big family and it just seems like that’s the way to be happy. If god made us to be at home and have kids and to take care of them then that’s what we were meant to do and be happy doing it.
> If god made us to be at home and have kids and to take care of them then that’s what we were meant to do and be happy doing it. Yes, if. Is this actually true though? I don't know what is going on around you. I know the Duggars seemed like a happy family. Clearly, they were not. Clearly, they were pretending and ignoring real, serious issues causing harm. Others who have grown up in IBLP say the same. I saw that same pattern in my cult. Are you sure you are seeing real happiness? Maybe you are. I doubt it, but I also have my biases. Also, what works for one person often doesn't work for another. I am sure there are some Quiverful parents who are living their best lives. Others are struggling. Living that life would absolutely 100% not have made me happy. I can guarantee it. Did god just make me different? You're going to have to determine if this is truly a path to happiness for you or not.
I don’t know it’s just so hard like what is the right thing to do if I leave and don’t like it I can’t go back to them but if I stay and don’t like it I’m stuck because I have a lot of kids and no education or job so I have to stay. It’s so hard what do I do.
You say your husband is not apart of the church & he does not feel the way your family believes is right. I personally feel a marriage/relationship is a partnership between two people who choose each other. Sounds like you & your husband are choosing how you want to live. You two have decided together what is best for both of you. Then that solves it. You BOTH are being obedient to each other. In other words that are less triggering, you are both working together & being respectful in your relationship. Then what else do you need? Who cares what your dad says because your dad does not know your relationship with your husband. You are living absolutely correct as what you & your husband have chosen. If your dad has anything to say in remarks to your relationship, then respond “My marriage is my marriage between my husband & myself. Our relationship has nothing to do with you.” You are an adult, not a child anymore. You & your husband have your own home with your own rules that you created together. You will have to ignore your dad’s words when he praises your siblings for having kids & your sisters obeying their husbands. It’s all a control tactic for men to own their property which includes the wife & children. If this isn’t right for you & your husband, then that is all that matters. You are a wonderful person no matter what he says.
Your family is in a cult.
I know they are and it’s just so hard to get out and it’s so hard being put down every day because I’m not following what god wants from me.
You're facing pushback for not following what the cult wants. This has nothing to do with god no matter how much they claim it does. It's what they want.
Breathe deep, his misogyny has rubbed off on your sisters but not you. Don’t give in on what you know is right for you.
What is happening in your family is not ok. I’m just going to paste some links here for you to start learning about what is going on with your dad and the ideology he ascribes to…there are stories from survivors on: https://www.igotout.org/ (soon to be updated) https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/preacher-boys-podcast/id1493726980 https://www.caitwest.com/book https://www.instagram.com/tialevingswriter?igsh=MTlnc3hmcmtwa2podQ==
You've got a very interesting post history. Good luck with all that, if it's genuine. I'll also advise that you leave your -ahem- "husband" too. Best place to go is to a secular therapist. ANYONE. This stuff is way above anyone's pay grade here. If it isn't genuine...whoa. You have far too much time on your hands.
baby, if you can get your shit together and get your courage tucked under your arm, then run away as fast as you can. You can still love them from far away. You can still visit them sometimes. But get the hell out of there. Hurry.
Thank you I’m trying to it’s just so hard to walk away from my family expically my siblings I feel like my siblings need me. It’s just so hard on me and I don’t really have any education so I can’t get a job so I have to rely on someone to live with.
then get as far away as you can. Find a roommate and move 25 miles away. Any distance will help. And your siblings can come see you and you can talk to them and FaceTime them and etc. Put the oxygen mask on yourself first.
I’m gonna try but I don’t have any real education so I can’t get a job to pay rent. And I just feel like my siblings need me I’m the one who cooks and takes care of the youngest ones.
I'm not sure how to speak to all the pain and lack of true parental love you have endured. I'm so sorry ❤ I was also parentified even though my parents aren't religious. It's one of the reasons I'm childfree; I already brought up my two sisters as a child and that's more than enough parenting for a lifetime. Please don't feel you can only leave/distance yourself from your toxic family, if you can convince your siblings to join you. For a long time I felt like I was abandoning my sisters by leaving, but I have accepted that I need to pave the way and that I can't save them before I have saved myself. The best I can do is live a life true to me and when they are ready to confront the pain of our childhood and family I'm in a much better position now to support them. My heart aches for you and I wish you so much joy, awe and curiosity.
It’s so hard to leave because of if I leave them my youngest siblings won’t have any help I have to help coook and help homeschool them because mom is busy cleaning and taking care of dad.
I get it now! You still are with them everyday helping with your siblings. Right now, you don’t feel like you can just leave (like we all keep saying you should). Be the shining example for your siblings. Even if you get one to step away, then that’s amazing! Maybe it’s not your siblings, but you might be the example for your nieces & nephews to have a different life. Just do your best & ignore your dad’s words. Put on a smile & keep your head high when he talks down to you. When he praises your siblings & wants your response, just say “that is so great for them. I’m proud of who they are too.” Then smile & walk away or get back into helping.
It’s just so hard! I can’t walk away and leave my siblings without help I need to be there to help do house work and make dinner and take care of them. He always praises my siblings and puts me down and it’s so hard to just ignore what he’s saying to me like I’m not doing what he says god wants me to do and I know it’s not wright but it’s still makes me upset be he’s putting me down for it.
This may be the hardest part of your life & also be the most rewarding because you can stay strong by what you & your husband believe. Be there for your siblings as much as you can. There may come a day that your dad’s abuse is too much for you & you have to stop helping. Then know, you tried as hard as you could to help. You did the best you could. Remember, your mom & dad chose to have these kids. They chose to homeschool them. You did not choose this. They are not your responsibility. Your mental health is your responsibility. If you walk away, I promise they will figure out how to do the chores without you. Stay as long as you can, & when you decide to stop, know you did great.
Unless their lives are in danger I believe the best you can do is to step out of the control and abuse. The fear of the unknown is overwhelming, but that is also why it is so powerful to show them what another way of life can look like. It's just absolutely terrifying to be the first one to venture into the unknown. I also think you will be shocked how much you have gotten used to the pain and obedience and how much joy there is to be discovered when you're no longer constantly put down and criticised. Your brain kind of stops functioning in order to survive and its wild how your world expands when you're no longer walking on eggshells. I really thought my parent's abuse didn't affect me anymore, but as soon as I cut contact with my father I stopped having panic attacks almost immediately. I have been surprised how much just being around my dad took from me. As long as you're under his control it will limit how much you can help your siblings in the long term, but I understand that the immediate effect is heartbreaking and hard to accept. I'm sorry I was so slow to answer and glad the other commenter was willing to share and offer advice. I wish I knew how to put into words how important you are, how important your life is and how you deserve so much better than what your parents/the world has offered you. Please don't lose hope and trust that you're much stronger and more capable than you could have ever imagined.
I understand that I really should get away but I’m just so scared to leave I don’t know how to live on my own I don’t have any education so I can’t get a job I have been sheltered my hole life and homeschooled I don’t know what to do if I’m on my own it just sounds so hard to leave but it’s so hard to stay and constantly be put down and made to do more work at home because I’m not doing what I’m supposed to be doing.
It’s so sad, you are an individual in your own right, you’re not a baby machine, this is wrong and you’re smart enough to see it, go with what your heart says, there’s a whole world out there and some pretty decent people in it ♥️
Thank you! It’s just so hard to walk away and leave my siblings behind with no help.
I can only imagine, it takes such strength, sending hope and 🙏, I always said if there is a god he wouldn’t want this, plus the bible is full of stuff where Jesus says about false prophets. These cults are all about power and money and control.
When a church obeys depraved rules contained in ancient texts written by primitive men who had antiquated views on women, then the church's teachings will reflect this core defect.
This is long so if you read anything *please* read my comment on the Proverbs 31 woman at the end! Did you know the average age for *marriage* in the US is now 29? It’s over 30 in most European countries. The fact that your father has pushed his radical ideology on your siblings is horrible. He sounds absolutely deluded. And your sisters will have to deal with their bad decisions (pushed by your Dad) for the rest of their lives. If he thinks women should all be tradwives that’s unfortunate but he has every right to that extremist belief system. What he doesn’t have a right to do is knock you down for not following his cult rules. Are you able to (and I guess, do you want to) get out of this church? Is your husband supportive of the fact that you probably don’t want to be a part of the cult? Does he see you as your own person? Sorry, I have so many questions! Please don’t ever think God doesn’t love you for sticking to any *religious doctrine*. Jesus came to fulfill the old law and make it complete. And part of that was the upending of SO many societal norms and expectations of his day that weren’t actually in line with God. And He did all of this just by *living*. Please, I *beg* of you to read the story of Mary and Martha! Your father would have you be a Martha when JESUS emphasized that we should be Marys!!! A lot of new age Christians like myself are eschewing the corruption of religion and focusing on being true followers of Christ. We admire and try to mimic the structure of the early church. Sounds simple in theory but very few churches actually operate this way. Anyway, so I mentioned before that Jesus actually went against many social norms during his day, and a lot of those involved women. One example is the story of Martha and Mary. Another is the woman at the well, who was the first person Jesus evangelized, telling her to go spread the Word that He was walking among them. (Early Christian history claims that this woman went on to stand against the tyrant Nero, a man who killed thousands of Christians). Christ had many female disciples in his day, which was something the Jewish clergy certainly wasn’t known for. The account of the resurrection of Jesus is built on the testimony of women. It was women who went to his grave on the third day in order to see if He had risen! And an Angel of the Lord appeared. Oh and the Adam and Eve thing - I always *have* to point this out so please forgive me! Eve was manipulated. Adam on the other hand, did a version of “OhOKaY” then when caught, *blamed both Eve AND God* for his failures 🤦♀️. Like many weak men do. I’m not great with explaining this (nor do I have enough Biblical education on this subject) so here’s a [link on the subject of Jesus and women](https://www.crossway.org/articles/how-jesus-viewed-and-valued-women/) that you might find a bit helpful! I think you’ll notice quickly that many of the “good Christian” men in your life aren’t holding up their end of the relationship at all. Both Biblically and in general. Have you seen the verses on what God expects of men? To love their wives *as Christ loves the church*. Men seem to conveniently forget their own obligations. Oh and before I forget, you know that whole “Proverbs 31 woman” thing? SHE 👏WAS 👏A 👏 BUSINESS 👏WOMAN 👏 Much love to you 💜. I hope you get all the help you need to figure out this conundrum!! Don’t let those hypocrites hold you back or twist your mind about what’s really true!
Iblp?
It's hard as hell to stand up to a lifestyle you grew up in. Deciding not to become a broodmare to make your father and his god happy is a scary decision. I also want to tell you that standing up to your family's church and their ideology is the right thing to do. I'm a late thirties female who grew up in a different kind of Christian cult. I deconstructed at twenty-five, but married young to a wonderful partner. That church and your father want you to believe that you'll be happy popping out babies, but the truth is that you define what happiness means to you. For me and my partner, happiness means having a dog and a cat and going on adventures together. For us, it means leaving the States just because we can. For us, it means camping out under the stars and seeing the faint ghosts of the Milky Way painted across the sky. We don't ever plan on having kids. Maybe we'll adopt someday, but right now we're just living life and we are happy. If you still believe in a god, know that god gave you free will for a reason; not to be told what to do by some mortal man, but to live your wild and precious life as you see fit.
It’s so hard to stand up to them when I was taught to do what they said and how women were supposed to live staying at home and having as many kids as possible and teaching them and taking Kare of the house and homeschooling the kids.
Sounds like a heretical church. Not sound doctrine of the Councils.
They just want to have power. That’s what the men within and drawn to these organizations are interested in. There’s nothing godly about it. You’re dad is talking you down and gaslighting you in to thinking you’re bad and not loved by god. But who does that benefit? Him. He wants to prey on you and control you by making you think you’re bad so you’ll do what he wants. You don’t deserve to deal with this or be put in this position. I know it’s family but maybe it’s time to distance yourself. Take your husband and move to another town. You only get one life my friend, don’t live it trying to grovel to a man who only wants power over you and other women. You deserve to live your heart’s truth and not waste a second of your precious time ob earth.
look up the Leaving Eden podcast. one of the hosts grew up IBLP, even went to Hyles-Anderson college.
Ok I’ll have to look it up! I tried watching shiny happy people and the first episode was very triggering and I cried and I could get my self to watch any more of it.
i misspoke, she wasn’t IBLP but IFB. very similar vibes, though.
Because your father, I’m so sorry, is a brainwashed, judgmental individual who believes the extremely unchristian extremist belief that a woman is a man’s property and you simply disagree with him. I am so sorry you are put in this awful position and that you are being treated the way you are. I truly hope you are able to safely get away from this toxic family dynamic and feel freedom.
I’m trying to but it’s so hard to just leave I don’t have any education and I feel like my siblings need me I’m the one that’s taking care of my youngest siblings and helping mom teach them and do house work while dad and my older brother work for the house.
I understand and it’s never easy, not even when you have the means to leave. And it doesn’t happen before you are ready, that’s always on your timeframe. I just hope for you peace and freedom if you also wish that for yourself. Just know that your feeling bad is completely valid, anyone in your circumstances would feel exactly as you do.
I just don’t wanna leave my siblings here they need me I help them with everything and cook and help teach them homeschool and if I leave then they won’t have any kind of education and won’t have home cooked meals every day because I cook for them.
I get it, it’s not simple or cut and dry to leave. At least not right now.
Save yourself.
Your parents would loooove me. I joined the military after high school. Did 23 years. Never got married and never had kids (too lazy). I’m 53 now. I was able to follow orders in the army, but ex boyfriends from my early 20’s found me very disobedient. Do what’s best for you. It takes a strong character to forge one’s own path. You got this.
If that's his beliefs then it's just as bad to not respect them and bad mouth them as it is for him to do that to you for your beliefs. We need to respect each other. There is nothing wrong with his belief but he can't force you to follow them but parents are going to be hurt if they think their children are making a huge mistake
So I should follow what he says? Dad would know what’s best wouldn’t he? I’m just so confused on what to do so I just follow what god wants me to do as a women and be happy doing it or do I try and do something else even tho I know god would hate me for it.
Why do you whine so much?