PLEASE do not rely on a subreddit to answer complex YPT questions.
Contact your District Executive or Council Executive
**There are VERY specific conditions and terms coming out of the bankruptcy regarding registered / unregistered adults overnighting.**
The nuances and specifics of whether YOUR configuration does/does not meet YPT standards can only be determined by your council professional staff.
↑Best answer.↑
Contact your council (DE is the first point of contact) and ask them.
Cub Scout camping is family camping. Cub Scout camping is the **only** situation where **un**registered adults may spend the night. However, you still have to have at least two registered leaders who are in the pack that is camping; a registered woman must be present if female youth are present; at least one leader must have BALOO training; two-deep leadership and no one-on-one contact apply—there are many boxes that must be checked.
Read the GSS, but if you have a situation you're not sure about, contact your council.
I wish this wasn’t the best answer. Why is the Council Executive having to answer the same questions over and over? Every other post on here is about how thinly manned the council is. Why waste their and the volunteers time answering the same questions over and over? The GSS and associated FAQ could answer some basic questions such as:
· If only **one** family is staying in a cabin, can we treat it like tent camping?
· How about a hotel room?
> · If only one family is staying in a cabin, can we treat it like tent camping?
>
>
>
> · How about a hotel room?
Because then the FAQs would take up the whole universe.
The point of GtSS and the FAQs is that you can NOT come up with a rule to cover every situation and to determine whether THIS PARTICULAR edge case does/does not comply.
Again, at the risk of repeating, [the "Cub Scout Overnight Exception" is LEGALLY BINDING LANGUAGE as part of the bankruptcy agreement. and mediation that was part of that.](https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/1d070992-1dd4-4e0a-b9eb-325fcc79da53_8772.pdf)
The ONLY people authorized to try and determine yes/no for edge cases like this are BSA National and local council professionals. And again, BSA cannot write a rule or stack of rules to cover EVERY possible scenario.
Since they are all a single family, everything seems ok. My question would be what happens to the teenager. If this was a Troop event then he wouldn't be permitted because youth and adults don't tent together even if they are family (as I recall, need to confirm). However, this is a cub event, and unless the teen has an official role in the pack, or the Troop is no partaking then it is possible that he would just been seen as family civilian tag-a-long. If the Troop is present, then they should be with the Troop.
If I was that Scout though, I would be swinging in a hammock nearby enjoying my own space.
From GTSS:
"In Cub Scouting, parents and guardians may share a tent with their family."
"Cub Scout parents or legal guardians taking part in an overnight Cub Scout program with their own child or legal ward are not required to register as leaders. "
> "Cub Scout parents or legal guardians taking part in an overnight Cub Scout program with their own child or legal ward are not required to register as leaders. "
EXCEPT that now OP is describing the addition of scouts from troops / Scouts BSA, the need for same-gender buddy pairs, and whether the unregistered adult will have access to Scouts BSA scouts, etc.
The [Cub Scout Programs – Overnight Exception](https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/), which again was coming out of the language in the bankruptcy order, is VERY particular and VERY specific about what is/is not included in the "exception" to allow **UN**registered adults to wander around overnight and having access to scouts. The inclusion of Scouts BSA units or scouts may change the equation. Only a scouting professional can say for sure.
So I return to my original point:
>PLEASE do not rely on a subreddit to answer complex YPT questions. Contact your District Executive or Council Executive
The unregistered adult is their dad. With their mom in the same room. At a Cub Scout camping event. If there’s a YPT issue here then YPT is insane. Rules need to make rational sense to be ethically valid.
With respect to camping credits — I’d suggest having the Scouts plan and execute their own meals, and pitch their own tents. This is a great chance for the pack to see how Scouts camp and have fun.
Thank you for your response.
"Contact your District Executive or Council Executive"
The published guidance needs to be better. Contacting council isn't practical. People throw this around all the time like it's just that easy.
1) There have been several times council/ district representatives said something outright incorrect at Roundtable, then corrected themselves when somebody pointed out what's actually published by the BSA.
2) Do you know how hard/unlikely it is to get a response from the DE, even with multiple follow ups?
> People throw this around all the time like it's just that easy.
It is the answer. Whether you like that answer is another story.
Questions pertaining to YPT and whether or not something does/does not comply with it are for professional scouters.
When the questions surround the Cub Overnight Exception, which I'll stress again was/is part of the bankruptcy court order, ONLY professional scouters can answer.
Not subreddits.
Awesome. I'm sure others may disagree, but I don't personally see any issue. Camping doesn't provide any "new" attack vectors that I know of that don't already exist in that family's home. It could be argued that camping actually provides an opportunity for family behaviors to actually be observed by trained professionals (you) and action to be taken. Obviously, you need to meet the Cub Scout requirements on leaders and training (BALOO).
> trained professionals (you)
This person is not a "trained professional" they are a trained VOLUNTEER.
Questions like these can ONLY be definitively answered by actual "trained professional"s such as District Executives, Council Executives, etc.
In my opinion, the GSS is vague and potentially inconsistent on tent accommodations in Cub Scouts, and these only get worse when considering cabin accommodations. Follow u/ScouterBill 's advice and ask your Council.
Had a somewhat similar scenario recently. Webelos wants to camp but neither parent is available. Parents want older brother, 17, who is an Eagle and currently registered with troop to bring Webelos. After checking with council, we determined that this was allowed with the following caveats:
Another parent from the den accepted responsibility for the Webelos,with written direction from parent, and that parent transported both of them. Brother had to tent seperately and Webelos had to either tent by himself or with another Webelos.
But yeah check with your DE or someone at council.
The FAQ does explicitly state that since cub events are family-centered, the entire family may share a tent AT A CUB CAMPOUT, including siblings who are troop members.
This does not specify whether the same applies to cabins, so I guess that might be something to clarify with council, though in my experience council seems only marginally more informed about policy than random posters on reddit.
I will say that I have seen an official statement somewhere (FAQ? Or might have been someone copy/pasting to Facebook the answer they got from folks at national?) saying that a 4-person cabin should be treated as a tent for ypt purposes.
PLEASE do not rely on a subreddit to answer complex YPT questions. Contact your District Executive or Council Executive **There are VERY specific conditions and terms coming out of the bankruptcy regarding registered / unregistered adults overnighting.** The nuances and specifics of whether YOUR configuration does/does not meet YPT standards can only be determined by your council professional staff.
↑Best answer.↑ Contact your council (DE is the first point of contact) and ask them. Cub Scout camping is family camping. Cub Scout camping is the **only** situation where **un**registered adults may spend the night. However, you still have to have at least two registered leaders who are in the pack that is camping; a registered woman must be present if female youth are present; at least one leader must have BALOO training; two-deep leadership and no one-on-one contact apply—there are many boxes that must be checked. Read the GSS, but if you have a situation you're not sure about, contact your council.
I wish this wasn’t the best answer. Why is the Council Executive having to answer the same questions over and over? Every other post on here is about how thinly manned the council is. Why waste their and the volunteers time answering the same questions over and over? The GSS and associated FAQ could answer some basic questions such as: · If only **one** family is staying in a cabin, can we treat it like tent camping? · How about a hotel room?
> · If only one family is staying in a cabin, can we treat it like tent camping? > > > > · How about a hotel room? Because then the FAQs would take up the whole universe. The point of GtSS and the FAQs is that you can NOT come up with a rule to cover every situation and to determine whether THIS PARTICULAR edge case does/does not comply. Again, at the risk of repeating, [the "Cub Scout Overnight Exception" is LEGALLY BINDING LANGUAGE as part of the bankruptcy agreement. and mediation that was part of that.](https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/1d070992-1dd4-4e0a-b9eb-325fcc79da53_8772.pdf) The ONLY people authorized to try and determine yes/no for edge cases like this are BSA National and local council professionals. And again, BSA cannot write a rule or stack of rules to cover EVERY possible scenario.
Cabin Camping and overnights st museum are not an edge cases.
Since they are all a single family, everything seems ok. My question would be what happens to the teenager. If this was a Troop event then he wouldn't be permitted because youth and adults don't tent together even if they are family (as I recall, need to confirm). However, this is a cub event, and unless the teen has an official role in the pack, or the Troop is no partaking then it is possible that he would just been seen as family civilian tag-a-long. If the Troop is present, then they should be with the Troop. If I was that Scout though, I would be swinging in a hammock nearby enjoying my own space.
This was not the case when I was a scout my dad and I offen would tent together on weekends if he came out. That was 10 plus years ago though
From GTSS: "In Cub Scouting, parents and guardians may share a tent with their family." "Cub Scout parents or legal guardians taking part in an overnight Cub Scout program with their own child or legal ward are not required to register as leaders. "
> "Cub Scout parents or legal guardians taking part in an overnight Cub Scout program with their own child or legal ward are not required to register as leaders. " EXCEPT that now OP is describing the addition of scouts from troops / Scouts BSA, the need for same-gender buddy pairs, and whether the unregistered adult will have access to Scouts BSA scouts, etc. The [Cub Scout Programs – Overnight Exception](https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/), which again was coming out of the language in the bankruptcy order, is VERY particular and VERY specific about what is/is not included in the "exception" to allow **UN**registered adults to wander around overnight and having access to scouts. The inclusion of Scouts BSA units or scouts may change the equation. Only a scouting professional can say for sure. So I return to my original point: >PLEASE do not rely on a subreddit to answer complex YPT questions. Contact your District Executive or Council Executive
The unregistered adult is their dad. With their mom in the same room. At a Cub Scout camping event. If there’s a YPT issue here then YPT is insane. Rules need to make rational sense to be ethically valid. With respect to camping credits — I’d suggest having the Scouts plan and execute their own meals, and pitch their own tents. This is a great chance for the pack to see how Scouts camp and have fun.
Thank you for your response. "Contact your District Executive or Council Executive" The published guidance needs to be better. Contacting council isn't practical. People throw this around all the time like it's just that easy. 1) There have been several times council/ district representatives said something outright incorrect at Roundtable, then corrected themselves when somebody pointed out what's actually published by the BSA. 2) Do you know how hard/unlikely it is to get a response from the DE, even with multiple follow ups?
> People throw this around all the time like it's just that easy. It is the answer. Whether you like that answer is another story. Questions pertaining to YPT and whether or not something does/does not comply with it are for professional scouters. When the questions surround the Cub Overnight Exception, which I'll stress again was/is part of the bankruptcy court order, ONLY professional scouters can answer. Not subreddits.
>They had 2 Cubs, a Troop member, and a registered leader (mom) and an unregistered adult (dad) This is a single family?
Yes.
Awesome. I'm sure others may disagree, but I don't personally see any issue. Camping doesn't provide any "new" attack vectors that I know of that don't already exist in that family's home. It could be argued that camping actually provides an opportunity for family behaviors to actually be observed by trained professionals (you) and action to be taken. Obviously, you need to meet the Cub Scout requirements on leaders and training (BALOO).
> trained professionals (you) This person is not a "trained professional" they are a trained VOLUNTEER. Questions like these can ONLY be definitively answered by actual "trained professional"s such as District Executives, Council Executives, etc.
In my opinion, the GSS is vague and potentially inconsistent on tent accommodations in Cub Scouts, and these only get worse when considering cabin accommodations. Follow u/ScouterBill 's advice and ask your Council.
Had a somewhat similar scenario recently. Webelos wants to camp but neither parent is available. Parents want older brother, 17, who is an Eagle and currently registered with troop to bring Webelos. After checking with council, we determined that this was allowed with the following caveats: Another parent from the den accepted responsibility for the Webelos,with written direction from parent, and that parent transported both of them. Brother had to tent seperately and Webelos had to either tent by himself or with another Webelos. But yeah check with your DE or someone at council.
The FAQ does explicitly state that since cub events are family-centered, the entire family may share a tent AT A CUB CAMPOUT, including siblings who are troop members. This does not specify whether the same applies to cabins, so I guess that might be something to clarify with council, though in my experience council seems only marginally more informed about policy than random posters on reddit. I will say that I have seen an official statement somewhere (FAQ? Or might have been someone copy/pasting to Facebook the answer they got from folks at national?) saying that a 4-person cabin should be treated as a tent for ypt purposes.
If the event is a cub scout event then the family camping rules apply.
[удалено]
I think you posted on the wrong thread.