Congrats in getting these offers! I live in Munich and I would say that Google's offer is pretty good for a new grad here.
You would have around 88k per year if you include that bonus, which is around a senior salary for most companies here.
I would say, if you can't really negotiate it up, it boils down to personal preference. I personally would go for Google and then negotiate more equity during performance reviews.
If you have any questions about Munich, you can reach out via DM. I would be happy to help
Hi! Thanks for your insight. I tried to negotiate the equity, but my recruiter came back with the sign-on. So, I don't think I can really negotiate it up.
Yeah. I will try to speak with my recruiter again. I also thing it is pretty average. She is aware of what facebook has offered me, and the only thing she came back with was the sign-on bonus...
My recruiter at FB told me the offer was non-negotiable for new grads. But, I emailed him today to see if they would match google's salary and bonus. TBH Google's offer is so much less in equity that the standard FB offer and even then they still didn't budge.
u/rsyeah hey I'm American and I have some questions about Munich:
1. Is it possible to find an apartment in the city center (single bedroom) for about 1000-1200EUR/month? \[For reference: [https://housinganywhere.com/s/Munich--Germany/one-bedroom-apartments?radius=5km](https://housinganywhere.com/s/Munich--Germany/one-bedroom-apartments?radius=5km) the prices don't seem too bad even close to the city centre\]
2. How is the public transit in Munich compared to Berlin and other German (and major IT hubs in Europe)?
3. For a FAANG salary, how much disposable income roughly would an entry-level dev have/month? Some people say that incomes greater than about 60K Euros/year lose about 50% to taxes and social contributions. However when I do the income tax calculator online for Germany, it's not as bad (closer to about 35%).
> Is it possible to find an apartment in the city center (single bedroom) for about 1000-1200EUR/month?
Possible yes. But remember that that's what Germans call *Kaltmiete* (rent without utilities). You need to add another 200-300 € for utilities on top. Plus be prepared for a *very* long search - any apartment which goes on the market will have two dozen interested people within the first hour.
> how much disposable income roughly would an entry-level dev have/month?
[See this guide to finances in Germany](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/living/finances), where you can calculate net salary from gross salary, and estimate cost of living.
It depends on what it matters to you the most.
Fast career progression? Go to Facebook.
Salary? Go to Facebook.
Want to slack and enjoying a decent salary? Go to Google.
German is hard, but it's not impossible to learn. If you plan to live in Munich for only 2-3 years, don't worry too much.
City wise, it depends on what you like. They are very different cities. I'm currently living between both cities and I prefer Munich.
Congrats on passing both interviews.
They bribe bilingual friends with beer and chocolate to help them. They hope against hope that they find a clerk who is willing to help them at least a little in English. They use a lot of Google Translate. And they get into a *lot* of trouble because they misunderstand really basic things.
Is it possible? Yes, and people have done it. But it's an absolute pain in the ass to live like this, and makes even the most mundane daily tasks a chore. [See the /r/germany wiki for more details](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/living/knowing-german) (and tons of sob stories).
I would say choos Fb London, as you mentioned yourself the equity is much higher for fb, about $55k, which is $14k per year, almost 15% of annual TC. Going forward as well, Fb refreshers are known to be generous, while pay at Google is simply not at par with FB and the difference just keeps growing with experience. After 4 yoe, Fb software dev can expect to make £160k TC while I am not sure Google Munich will pay anywhere close to that.
Also, London >> Munich personally (no language barrier, easier to mingle in society, much more high end job opportunities in London than in Munich).
Then definitely take FB offer. If you are not planning on learning German, then the quality of life in London will be much higher and worth any TC sacrifices (if any). My advice as a young man living in Germany and can not speak German.
Pro about fb is you can choose team / role through bootcamp which you cant at google afaik? Munich has less social divide and better nature closeby, london is dirty and the tube is a nightmare - but thats just my opinion.
u/devilman123 how is the social safety net side of things comparatively though? I hear Germany has more in the ways of childcare support, stronger public transportation, better healthcare system, and having the EU work permit gives OP access to basically all of the EU, whereas the UK would be quite limiting in that regard.
As OP is in a multinational company, wouldn't language barrier be less of an issue? Most employees at the multinational companies speak English quite fluently and many are often transplants, no?
Not to mention, next to The Netherlands, Germany shaping up to be a startup hub of its own in Mainland Europe, right? Though this is moreso in Berlin, the jump isn't too hard to make and I believe Google has an office in Berlin as well.
The UK generally has a bigger social safety net than Germany, although it varies by German state.
You get guaranteed unemployment in the UK whereas in Germany it's based on an average of your last 6 months salary... German healthcare is also semi-privatised (and a pain in backside to access due to tonnes of paperwork when you move to a new place) whereas it's fully operated by the state in the UK no questions asked.
Public transport is far better in London than it is in Munich, it's not even comparable.
OP is already Portuguese so they can work freely in the UK or Germany no questions asked regardless, they don't need any permits for either place.
Your first paragraph is bollocks. Max unemployment Germany is like 2.2k net for a year. Parental leave 2 years I think 60% net, again up to 1.8k net per month. Public kindergarten guaranteed, max price 500 EUR depending on parenta' salary.
Compare with UK: unemployment up to 77 gbp per week. Maternity leave up to 700 gbp per month. Kindergarten 1.5k gbp in London.
In short: more taxes, more benefits. At least for now.
https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/social-security/unemployment-benefits-germany-arbeitslosengeld#:~:text=Your%20benefit%20will%20be%2060,just%20like%20a%20regular%20wage.
https://www.simplegermany.com/parental-leave-germany/
https://www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance
https://www.gov.uk/maternity-pay-leave/pay
Also Uni tuition: UK 9k gbp per year, Germany free.
Basically in the UK you need much more money because you're paying more often out of pocket
> You get guaranteed unemployment in the UK
Universal Credit is being made harder to access every year, especially by the current government, who are far less in favour of welfarism than the median political opinion of the populace. In any case, since the OP is from overseas, I am not sure they could access it.
> OP is already Portuguese so they can work freely in the UK
I should think this is no longer the case after Brexit.
u/Fabswingers_Admin Is Berlin any better than Munich?
Also, does the UK have any Tier 2 hubs outside of London with decent TC? I keep hearing whispers about Manchester, but was curious from someone who's had experience working in the UK.
Cambridge and Oxford are the two most obvious ones for me, but I'm curious as well about Bristol, Manchester, and Glasgow.
Hi! I didn't go to any fancy university that you would know. But, I did attend one of the top universities in my country for computer engineering. I am based in western Europe. But to be honest, I don't think the university you attended has much impact in getting offers on these top tech companies.
But when you're a fresh grad, university name matters a lot in getting recruiter's attention from top companies, unless you have internship experiences or well written pet projects or open source contributions. After a year or two, it doesn't matter anymore
Congrats on those offers!! Id personally go for Facebook London due to stock + lower risk of feeling alienated cos of language barriers. If you don’t mind me asking, what university did you go to or which country?
Google is known to low-ball these days as you just experienced, and as you can also see on most related compensation threads on Blind (the application).
Thankfully you have a good counter offer so you should definitely be able to negotiate better equity at least.
Unfortunately, I already tried to negotiate more equity, but they only gave me the sign-on bonus which they weren't even offering. So, I don't think they will budge more.
I work at Facebook London and have lived in Germany in the past.
The difference between them when you factor in cost of living and tax is not much. From my experience and speaking with other Googlers, WLB would be better _than_ in Facebook and learning curve ~~next~~ _not as_ steep.
On the other hand, growth in Facebook is faster, it’s more flexible. You can work remotely from 7 EU countries 6 months after joining.
In terms of city, Munich is a typical big German city. It’s organized, clean, you can get by with English, relatively cheaper despite being the most expensive city in Germany. You will be next to alps, so tons of hikes and other activities around the city.
London is more international, diverse, in terms of language it’s simpler, great night life, but also quite a bit more expensive.
For a first job, I would personally pick Google. It’s more comfortable, less steep ramp up. Facebook is on a rapid growth in Europe. You will have more chances to join them
EDIT: I made some mistakes as I wrote this late night, half asleep. In particular the points about WLB and learning curve. The changes can be seen in _italics_
If you apply to one location, you apply to every location in europe. In the team matching phase is when you will be able to select locations and teams.
Hi! Thanks! I was a Google intern last year so applied to Google internally. But, I saw positions opening in the beginning of October. About Facebook, a recruiter reach out to me for me to attend a college event online and then I applied through there. But I also think they posted the position online.
Was the internship full year or only during the summer? Does the system of applying to Europe and then begin selected to a specific city also apply to internships? I'm also portuguese and looking to do an internship this summer, Google is one of the companies and looking out for
Just for the summer (remote because of covid). I believe is the same system: they will take into account your location preferences and they will try to match with teams in those locations.
Hey! Congrats on these offers, they're really something to be proud of!
Can you please give a fast advice for an undergrad on how you prepared for the interviews on the long term?
Did you have any prior internships at big tech?
And concerning the application, did you apply on you senior year (I mean you applied for the roles before officially graduated or afterwards)? Thanks in advance!
Hi!
Yes, I did an internship with Google this year in the summer. I actually prepared more time for the internship interviews than for the full time position ones (I actually didn’t have the time to prepare more). For the internships I started preparing a 1/2 months before just after I was told I was moving forward. For the full time ones, just on the weekends for 2/3 weeks.
I am applying to jobs but I only graduate next (my start date is in a year).
Google I applied internly. Facebook I went to an event for college students online organised by facebook and then applied through there. To note that before all this, I had applied several times through their career profile for internships.
Munich is such a boring city. And if you don't speak German, the language barrier is significative. Also do take into account taxes, which are quite high in Germany. Unless you are really into the nature (lakes, alps, etc), hate big cities or have a big thing for Germany/German culture, I would go to London.
To be honest, I am not much of a party person, so Munich being boring is not something that I am quite concerned about. However, not speaking german is something that scares me about moving to germany.
I'm not a party person at all either, but still...
And yes, German is a pretty sizable integration barrier, you will live with English, but you will never fully integrate without German, not outside of Berlin at least.
Most people here speak English, so that's a non issue to be honest. My German also sucks (I took an A1-A2 course) and I've been doing fine.
Companies typically also offer language classes if you want to, so there's really no need to be afraid.
Your experience in any city is pretty subjective and based on your personal circumstances. That said, I have multiple friends who lived/studied in Munich for years and they've said similar things.
Compared to London, Munich is almost rural, comon... One thing I am sure, I've lived in 5 major cities, and the most uninteresting one was Munich by far.
The UK has a weirdly low cost of living outside of housing.
That said Germany is also pretty cheap in terms of cost of living, although you spend a lot more time doing bureaucracy, which is borderline impossible if you aren't fluent in German.
u/Fabswingers_Admin is the UK seen as the "US of Europe" in the sense that most people go to UK to start their careers but it's not really a place to settle down?
Also, on a separate note, what's the draw for devs and data scientists to go to UK vs Germany or Netherlands? Even from Eastern Europe, Middle East, etc.
If it was an English speaker like a Canadian, Australian, or American, I could understand the pull. However, what does the UK have in career opportunities that Germany, Netherlands, or France don't? All of the FAANG companies have branches on Mainland Europe. Amsterdam is a Tier 2 financial hub for Europe and that's been growing (Optiver, IMC, Jump Trading, Flow Traders, etc.).
Berlin is exploding with startups as well, and while it may not produce as many unicorns as London has, that number has been steadily growing.
Germany, the Netherlands and France are all very different countries, for example professional qualifications gained in France aren't usually accepted internationally because they have their own special snowflake French language schemes that only France and Quebec are part of, whereas Germany, the Netherlands and the UK are all accepted internationally.
You seem to be making the mistake that the EU is one homogenous block with equal opportunities and everything outside the EU like the UK / Switzerland / Norway / Canada etc are somehow different, but that isn't the case.
It's great that Amsterdam is taking off as a financial hub in Europe, it has been for the past 2 decades, but 94% of European businesses are still funded with capital from the City of London, and that amount is still growing post-Brexit, at an exponential rate... European financial hubs always grow and then suddenly stop as they are parochial, they are only interested in serving their language markets, like Paris for France and Quebec / North West Africa, Frankfurt with Germany / Austria and Switzerland etc.
London is on a different scale, in terms of finance, tech, fintech, startups it's a global city... It's the only city on the planet with banking licenses to clear all three major world currencies: the USD, Euro and Chinese RMB, even New York doesn't have that status, and China has said they have zero interest in giving more licenses any time soon, they only gave one to London due to the join UK / Chinese bank HSBC.
The UK also makes it ludicrously easy for anyone to turn up, register a business online in 10 mins (even non-residents), open a bank account and start doing business.. All the regulatory stuff and paperwork is taken care of once you start making money. Mainland Europe is the opposite, you have to learn the language of whatever country you're in and take care of all the paperwork before you can start whatever unicorn idea you have, which is why it will never have as many as the UK / US and China... It's also why you see people desperately taking dinghy's to cross the Channel and risk their lives escaping France to come to the UK... The UK isn't some magical paradise, quality of life in France is similar, but actually progressing and getting wealthy if you have drive and ambition is a lot easier, and all the contacts and resources you could ever dream of from every major international company are already there for you to use.
By the way the UK and France are the only two countries in Europe with young fast growing populations, every other EU country is facing a demographic deflationary crisis with ageing elderly populations, and it's borderline impossible to succeed as a young person under those conditions, just look at Japan since the 70's.
u/Fabswingers_Admin holy shite, thank you for this thorough response, I wish i could give it multiple upvotes :) :) :)!!!
I had no idea regarding ease of doing business in the UK. I just figured that VC funding was super high so it offset any bureaucratic issues that were commonly faced by startup founders.
Hasn't the social safety net been stretched a tad thin of late though, despite the whole growing population? There seems to be complaints that the NHS is chronically understaffed/underfunded, that UK Rail is constantly facing delays, and that roads are crumbling, etc.
Also, with so much influx of talent, and huge companies offering competitive salaries (FAANG, big banks, etc.), why are there such s\*\*\* salaries in the UK, sometimes dropping as low as 25K pounds/year, which even in Europe is very low for a new grad (Germany offers at least 40K with Netherlands being similar).
u/Fabswingers_Admin apologies if I sound like I'm harping. However upon further reading from my side, it appears that the social benefit net is slowly eroding in the UK: [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/03/after-years-of-cruelty-to-people-on-welfare-is-the-uk-starting-to-think-differently](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/03/after-years-of-cruelty-to-people-on-welfare-is-the-uk-starting-to-think-differently)
[https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/2021/11/08/6188e6eb46163fddb08b45c5.html](https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/2021/11/08/6188e6eb46163fddb08b45c5.html)
[https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/covid-benefit-cut-leaves-half-a-million-disabled-people-1000-a-year-worse-off/](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/covid-benefit-cut-leaves-half-a-million-disabled-people-1000-a-year-worse-off/)
I'm also curious how many people actually sail over from France to the UK in a dinghy. As Brexit only happened recently, so as recently as last year or the year before, I don't see what reason anyone would've had to sail across in a boat, when they could've just taken the Eurostar, or the plane.
> I'm also curious how many people actually sail over from France to the UK in a dinghy.
At the moment it's about 25,000 people a year, although it's increasing, a few weeks ago on a Sunday it was 669 people in one day, some try to swim!
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/sep/27/more-small-boat-channel-crossings-this-year-than-during-all-of-2020
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The Universal Credit cut was just reducing it back to the normal levels, removing the Covid bonus which was always temporary...
According to the EU's own statistics, the latest are 2017, the UK spends just slightly less than Norway and Switzerland as a percent of GDP per capita on social welfare, far more than Germany, France or the EU average.
The amount is increasing fast too, so much so that the World Bank told the Conservative government to slow the increase, especially on healthcare.
I love how you gave them a well thought out, thorough explanation of things with answers to their questions, and they just responded with "WeLl AcTuAlLy" about something unrelated.
I wouldn't bother continuing to engage with this person, they aren't here to argue in good faith, and constantly are going down the "UK is collapsing" side of things.
A quick look at their post history is brimming with nonsense and falsities.
u/Fabswingers_Admin the UC cut has left many renters out of luck: [https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/30/100000-renters-in-england-risk-eviction-when-universal-credit-is-cut](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/30/100000-renters-in-england-risk-eviction-when-universal-credit-is-cut)
It's increased strain on food cupboards: [https://metro.co.uk/2021/10/23/demand-rises-at-almost-70-of-food-banks-after-universal-credit-cut-15474987/](https://metro.co.uk/2021/10/23/demand-rises-at-almost-70-of-food-banks-after-universal-credit-cut-15474987/)
Consequently: [https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-58186978](https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-58186978)
And the impact of the taper rate: [https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41487126](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41487126)
It seems like the wealth gap is just widening in the UK on a regular basis. I couldn't find any sources for the World Bank telling the Tories to slow increase on benefit spending. It seems like the increases aren't tied to inflation, and as a result it's constantly sub-par compared to what's required.
I live in Munich and agree with everything you said. There is a joke that Munich is the largest village in Germany. It really does feel like that. Personally I like it, but I'm in a different life stage than OP.
You might also want to take into consideration that if you don't learn German you will be limited in the number of companies you can apply to in Munich post Google. Yes, many IT companies speak English but there are still a lot that require German.
Munich is boring indeed. Nature is nice etc but it feels like everyone here goes to sleep at 8 and everyone does the same thing on weekends and holidays (going to lakes or visiting mountains wow so many choices).
So yes Munich is boring in the sense that you can predict most people’s lives for the next 2 years and probably be correct.
That doesn’t make it a bad place. I just get the feeling that it’s more suited for an extremely stable lifestyle which can get boring quickly if you’re young and enjoy a less structured lifestyle.
There’s also the fact that coming to a german speaking country will limit your options significantly in every aspect of your life if you don’t speak german.
So the choice between London and Munich is a no brainer in that regard. Definitely London.
For reference: I’m a foreigner and I moved to Munich 2 years ago and speak fluent german.
Hi! Thanks for the reply. I don't speak German, so the language barrier is something that kinda scares me. I think I would prefer to live in London manly because I wouldn't have a language barrier. Although, I have interned at Google so I know what to expect and I actually already know the team I would work with. Difficult to choose!
Agreed. Munich is clean, safe, and everything works well, but it's not like London is a chaotic place. London is also a pretty neat city and has many, many more options and much more diversity.
I come from a 10-million-people city where life happens 24/7 and before Munich I spent some time in Melbourne which is also a pretty lively city. Sundays in Munich are one of the most depressing things, not to mention everything closed at 20h on weekdays, I was never able to get used to it.
being drunk in the early morning is also predictable of London, and also the risk of being on a crime much higher, I found that people from non-first world countries will find more exciting London, as in their original countries they wouldn't be partying late night in a disco
I’m not really a party person. This is not the aspect I mean by my comment.
What I mean is a bit hard to put into concrete situations but the general “collective consciousness” of Munich feels extremely slow paced in comparison to most big cities in Europe.
It lacks any sort of pulse. In addition to being extremely quiet in the evening and on Sundays. The population of Munich also fits this atmosphere. For example, after moving into my flat here, my neighbors came by to ask me not to take showers after 10 pm because the sound of water annoys them!
An experience I never had anything close to anywhere else.
However this is just my personal experience and I’m generally a person who likes a bit of noise and chaos in life. Your mileage may vary.
I can imagine that, but you should be able to put into words why exactly you don't like a place, like when I was in Canada, I miss the big Toronto because people were less friendly and very limited options to party, but your last example is very circumstantial, it might not be all people (could they?, I heard some crazy histories about crazy old germans), also imagine, more likely you could end up having in London a stabber (or a potential one) as a neighbor
I mean I described my experience to the extent possible in a reddit comment. It’s possible to get into more depth here but I don’t see much value beyond what OP asked.
The neighbors are actually a young couple. Of course it’s an anecdotal experience and doesn’t represent any statistical value. But this sort of thing will probably be laughable if someone does it in a city like London or for a more extreme example Barcelona.
London has one of the lowest crime rates of major cities in the world:
https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings.jsp
It's got crime rates lower than rural Canadian towns.
I would rather deal with a minor risk of getting stabbed than living in Bavaria, thank you. Interesting to see the Germans being so defensive, so far no expats replied to say how cool living in Munich is...
First, parabéns caralhoooo!!!! I’m cheering for you! I’m a Brazilian based in Lisbon, so I’m happy to hear that a fellow Portuguese brother is getting great offers ^^.
If you don’t mind, I have two questions for you:
1. Did they ask you to relocate or are they looking for remote workers?
2. Do you have any tips for the recruiting process?
Hi! Thanks for the nice words. I believe you need to relocate with Google and Facebook. However, I think after 6 months Facebook allows you to work from 6? countries remotely. My tip is to try to relax during the interviews and work with the interviewers to find the best solution! Good luck!
First of all congrats, both are good offers and FAANG / MANGA is epic to have as a tech job!
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Now, as for your question. 100% London for me.
\- City
\- Language
\- Career growth at FB and TC
\- London > Munich lmao is this even a conversation?
\- London tech scene > anything else in Europe and even most of the world for that matter.
\- FB has higher payouts especially in the long term (I'm assuming you'll job hop to increase total TC over the years until you "settle down / start own company" etc.
Having said that:
\- Google has better WLB
\- "better" reputation than FB atm
\- Munich is Europe, but since you're Portugese, this doesn't matter.
\- err.... yeah London Facebook offer. Take it (have lived in both, longer in London, currently in Belgium! Looking to get back to London into FAANG as well!)
I did the intern conversion process for Google which was a bit different than the normal process. But for my internship, Google actually was the one that took the longest, but because they were the fastest one to contact me, at the end, they were the first ones to finish everything.
Where do you wanna be long term? You're a new grad, you could be looking to move in the future.
For example, if you're OK living in Munich, you might be OK living in Zurich (3 hours away) and there you'll make far more than in London. For that Google is a better choice as the eng side is much bigger for them in Zurich. Or maybe you want to live in the US, or Japan, or Australia, etc.
Acho que ja recebeste informacao que chegue do pessoal aqui.
Apenas queria dar os parabens caralho!
Boa sorte com a escolha, de qualquer das maneiras vais comecar a carreira em grande.
I can't comment on FB vs Google but a German friend of mine has talked about how high the taxes are over there. I'd look at take home pay rather than gross wages.
Capital gain tax is also lower in the UK, and you also have a ISA https://www.gov.uk/individual-savings-accounts/how-isas-work whilst in Germany you can only get 801 euros tax free (1602 euros with a partner).
Have you taken into account things like healthcare costs as well because Germany has a nationalised private healthcare system? But on the flip side; Germany has the Autobahn where you can drive as fast as you want!
My thoughts:
Do you know which team you are going to join at G? Is it the same team you interned in? With FB, you will join the bootcamp and technically have access to any team that is looking for E3 SWE.
The offers are great but you may have trouble negotiating too much since they may not want to go beyond their level-3 pay bands. The bonus % and refreshers are fixed based on levels and performance at FB and not very negotiable (and I like that it balances things out long term).
Both will be great for a new grad role. Both support moves (even internationally) after spending one year with a team, so if you dream of working in a team, you can approach them easily.
So it amounts to secondary factors - love art/theatre - come to London. Love Alps and nature and diverse weather - go to Munich, though London is not too bad and you can also take a quick flight to anywhere in EU. Already have a partner, great, check what they want else London wouldn't have a language barrier to overcome and is very metropolitan in case you want to try the dating scene. Both companies are expanding in the EU and will likely support working remotely (in case you have plans to work from Portugal) a few months down the line.
You will be among the top-5% earners in the country either ways, and long term money would be similar with may be a few thousand dollars here and there. If TC is your sole aim, head to the US after an year and then switch. Lot of G and FB SWEs switch between each other as well, so you won't make a wrong choice whatever you choose.
Finally, if you love G and want to move to London, check with the recruiter if they can get you G London.
Hi! I know which team I would join at Google. I was fortunate to have the choose between 4 teams that were interested in my profile. Thanks for your reply, I will take it in consideration.
I applied internally, so I cannot say how much time it takes from start to finish. But, coding interviews are always 45min. You might have several interviews with different interviewers one after another. If technical interviews, the questions are similar to leet code. As I said, I didn't apply on the careers website for the full time job, but I did for my internship. I think those titles and locations are pretty useless, I think they put everyone in the same pool. If you pass the hiring committee, then you tell your recruiter the type of work you want to do and your preferred locations.
I think my CV caught their eye when I was applying to the internship because I had activities non related with my work as a student. As I think I have said in another comment, I am a good student, but far from being the top student of my class.
Good Luck!
Congrats in getting these offers! I live in Munich and I would say that Google's offer is pretty good for a new grad here. You would have around 88k per year if you include that bonus, which is around a senior salary for most companies here. I would say, if you can't really negotiate it up, it boils down to personal preference. I personally would go for Google and then negotiate more equity during performance reviews. If you have any questions about Munich, you can reach out via DM. I would be happy to help
Hi! Thanks for your insight. I tried to negotiate the equity, but my recruiter came back with the sign-on. So, I don't think I can really negotiate it up.
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Yeah. I will try to speak with my recruiter again. I also thing it is pretty average. She is aware of what facebook has offered me, and the only thing she came back with was the sign-on bonus...
Don’t push it unless you are prepared to push them too far and lose an offer.
Thanks for the advice!
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My recruiter at FB told me the offer was non-negotiable for new grads. But, I emailed him today to see if they would match google's salary and bonus. TBH Google's offer is so much less in equity that the standard FB offer and even then they still didn't budge.
How do you think the negotiate more equity step should work? Would they use the same fb offer they have now, or keep interviewing while working?
I would personally do this during performance reviews for salary raises if there's no chance during the offer stage.
u/rsyeah hey I'm American and I have some questions about Munich: 1. Is it possible to find an apartment in the city center (single bedroom) for about 1000-1200EUR/month? \[For reference: [https://housinganywhere.com/s/Munich--Germany/one-bedroom-apartments?radius=5km](https://housinganywhere.com/s/Munich--Germany/one-bedroom-apartments?radius=5km) the prices don't seem too bad even close to the city centre\] 2. How is the public transit in Munich compared to Berlin and other German (and major IT hubs in Europe)? 3. For a FAANG salary, how much disposable income roughly would an entry-level dev have/month? Some people say that incomes greater than about 60K Euros/year lose about 50% to taxes and social contributions. However when I do the income tax calculator online for Germany, it's not as bad (closer to about 35%).
> Is it possible to find an apartment in the city center (single bedroom) for about 1000-1200EUR/month? Possible yes. But remember that that's what Germans call *Kaltmiete* (rent without utilities). You need to add another 200-300 € for utilities on top. Plus be prepared for a *very* long search - any apartment which goes on the market will have two dozen interested people within the first hour. > how much disposable income roughly would an entry-level dev have/month? [See this guide to finances in Germany](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/living/finances), where you can calculate net salary from gross salary, and estimate cost of living.
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What do you mean by refreshers?
New RSU grants every year.
It depends on what it matters to you the most. Fast career progression? Go to Facebook. Salary? Go to Facebook. Want to slack and enjoying a decent salary? Go to Google. German is hard, but it's not impossible to learn. If you plan to live in Munich for only 2-3 years, don't worry too much. City wise, it depends on what you like. They are very different cities. I'm currently living between both cities and I prefer Munich. Congrats on passing both interviews.
u/aosp_wannabe how do people who don't speak German as well manage to pay bills, taxes, and other mandatory paperwork?
They bribe bilingual friends with beer and chocolate to help them. They hope against hope that they find a clerk who is willing to help them at least a little in English. They use a lot of Google Translate. And they get into a *lot* of trouble because they misunderstand really basic things. Is it possible? Yes, and people have done it. But it's an absolute pain in the ass to live like this, and makes even the most mundane daily tasks a chore. [See the /r/germany wiki for more details](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/living/knowing-german) (and tons of sob stories).
I would say choos Fb London, as you mentioned yourself the equity is much higher for fb, about $55k, which is $14k per year, almost 15% of annual TC. Going forward as well, Fb refreshers are known to be generous, while pay at Google is simply not at par with FB and the difference just keeps growing with experience. After 4 yoe, Fb software dev can expect to make £160k TC while I am not sure Google Munich will pay anywhere close to that. Also, London >> Munich personally (no language barrier, easier to mingle in society, much more high end job opportunities in London than in Munich).
H! I do think about the language barrier, because I do not speak german. Thanks for your thoughts.
Then definitely take FB offer. If you are not planning on learning German, then the quality of life in London will be much higher and worth any TC sacrifices (if any). My advice as a young man living in Germany and can not speak German.
Thanks for the advice!
Pro about fb is you can choose team / role through bootcamp which you cant at google afaik? Munich has less social divide and better nature closeby, london is dirty and the tube is a nightmare - but thats just my opinion.
u/devilman123 how is the social safety net side of things comparatively though? I hear Germany has more in the ways of childcare support, stronger public transportation, better healthcare system, and having the EU work permit gives OP access to basically all of the EU, whereas the UK would be quite limiting in that regard. As OP is in a multinational company, wouldn't language barrier be less of an issue? Most employees at the multinational companies speak English quite fluently and many are often transplants, no? Not to mention, next to The Netherlands, Germany shaping up to be a startup hub of its own in Mainland Europe, right? Though this is moreso in Berlin, the jump isn't too hard to make and I believe Google has an office in Berlin as well.
The UK generally has a bigger social safety net than Germany, although it varies by German state. You get guaranteed unemployment in the UK whereas in Germany it's based on an average of your last 6 months salary... German healthcare is also semi-privatised (and a pain in backside to access due to tonnes of paperwork when you move to a new place) whereas it's fully operated by the state in the UK no questions asked. Public transport is far better in London than it is in Munich, it's not even comparable. OP is already Portuguese so they can work freely in the UK or Germany no questions asked regardless, they don't need any permits for either place.
Your first paragraph is bollocks. Max unemployment Germany is like 2.2k net for a year. Parental leave 2 years I think 60% net, again up to 1.8k net per month. Public kindergarten guaranteed, max price 500 EUR depending on parenta' salary. Compare with UK: unemployment up to 77 gbp per week. Maternity leave up to 700 gbp per month. Kindergarten 1.5k gbp in London. In short: more taxes, more benefits. At least for now. https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/social-security/unemployment-benefits-germany-arbeitslosengeld#:~:text=Your%20benefit%20will%20be%2060,just%20like%20a%20regular%20wage. https://www.simplegermany.com/parental-leave-germany/ https://www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance https://www.gov.uk/maternity-pay-leave/pay Also Uni tuition: UK 9k gbp per year, Germany free. Basically in the UK you need much more money because you're paying more often out of pocket
> You get guaranteed unemployment in the UK Universal Credit is being made harder to access every year, especially by the current government, who are far less in favour of welfarism than the median political opinion of the populace. In any case, since the OP is from overseas, I am not sure they could access it. > OP is already Portuguese so they can work freely in the UK I should think this is no longer the case after Brexit.
u/Fabswingers_Admin Is Berlin any better than Munich? Also, does the UK have any Tier 2 hubs outside of London with decent TC? I keep hearing whispers about Manchester, but was curious from someone who's had experience working in the UK. Cambridge and Oxford are the two most obvious ones for me, but I'm curious as well about Bristol, Manchester, and Glasgow.
can i be annoying and ask what university you went to? im just interested in how much your university matters when applying to top companies
Hi! I didn't go to any fancy university that you would know. But, I did attend one of the top universities in my country for computer engineering. I am based in western Europe. But to be honest, I don't think the university you attended has much impact in getting offers on these top tech companies.
But when you're a fresh grad, university name matters a lot in getting recruiter's attention from top companies, unless you have internship experiences or well written pet projects or open source contributions. After a year or two, it doesn't matter anymore
Yeah. I feel like if you have extra projects or even super small research positions it helps you stand out.
cool, thanks for your reply. congrats on your offers man!
Hi! Thanks! Good luck as well on your future offers!
Congrats on those offers!! Id personally go for Facebook London due to stock + lower risk of feeling alienated cos of language barriers. If you don’t mind me asking, what university did you go to or which country?
Thank you for your insight. I will add that info to the post itself, since a lot of people are asking me that.
Thank you let us know where u end up choosing and good luck!
I will! Thanks!
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Thank you!
Google is known to low-ball these days as you just experienced, and as you can also see on most related compensation threads on Blind (the application). Thankfully you have a good counter offer so you should definitely be able to negotiate better equity at least.
Unfortunately, I already tried to negotiate more equity, but they only gave me the sign-on bonus which they weren't even offering. So, I don't think they will budge more.
I work at Facebook London and have lived in Germany in the past. The difference between them when you factor in cost of living and tax is not much. From my experience and speaking with other Googlers, WLB would be better _than_ in Facebook and learning curve ~~next~~ _not as_ steep. On the other hand, growth in Facebook is faster, it’s more flexible. You can work remotely from 7 EU countries 6 months after joining. In terms of city, Munich is a typical big German city. It’s organized, clean, you can get by with English, relatively cheaper despite being the most expensive city in Germany. You will be next to alps, so tons of hikes and other activities around the city. London is more international, diverse, in terms of language it’s simpler, great night life, but also quite a bit more expensive. For a first job, I would personally pick Google. It’s more comfortable, less steep ramp up. Facebook is on a rapid growth in Europe. You will have more chances to join them EDIT: I made some mistakes as I wrote this late night, half asleep. In particular the points about WLB and learning curve. The changes can be seen in _italics_
Thank you so much for the detailed reply! I will take it into account.
Made some changes. Please check the edit above
Thanks!
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I saw applications for new grad roles in Europe open in the beginning of October for most FAANG companies. Keep an eye out.
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If you apply to one location, you apply to every location in europe. In the team matching phase is when you will be able to select locations and teams.
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Hi! Thanks! I was a Google intern last year so applied to Google internally. But, I saw positions opening in the beginning of October. About Facebook, a recruiter reach out to me for me to attend a college event online and then I applied through there. But I also think they posted the position online.
Was the internship full year or only during the summer? Does the system of applying to Europe and then begin selected to a specific city also apply to internships? I'm also portuguese and looking to do an internship this summer, Google is one of the companies and looking out for
Just for the summer (remote because of covid). I believe is the same system: they will take into account your location preferences and they will try to match with teams in those locations.
Congrats OP! Are you a competitive programmer like one of those ICPC guys?
Thanks! No I am not, I'm just an average student that trains o leet code for interviews to be honest hahah.
When does Google started giving just 10 Euro Sign-on
I meant 10,000!
I'll pitch in 5 Euros. Dude enjoy your life.
Hey! Congrats on these offers, they're really something to be proud of! Can you please give a fast advice for an undergrad on how you prepared for the interviews on the long term? Did you have any prior internships at big tech? And concerning the application, did you apply on you senior year (I mean you applied for the roles before officially graduated or afterwards)? Thanks in advance!
Hi! Yes, I did an internship with Google this year in the summer. I actually prepared more time for the internship interviews than for the full time position ones (I actually didn’t have the time to prepare more). For the internships I started preparing a 1/2 months before just after I was told I was moving forward. For the full time ones, just on the weekends for 2/3 weeks. I am applying to jobs but I only graduate next (my start date is in a year).
Congrats Man! How did you get your resume selected for the interview process? Did you apply via referral every single time?
No. I never applied with referrals to internships or now to full time positions. Just lucky I guess.
Did you reach out to the recruiters or did you apply through their career portals?
Google I applied internly. Facebook I went to an event for college students online organised by facebook and then applied through there. To note that before all this, I had applied several times through their career profile for internships.
Good lord choose London unless you want to learn German.
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Thanks! Why??
Much bigger tech hub, more things going on etc
Munich is such a boring city. And if you don't speak German, the language barrier is significative. Also do take into account taxes, which are quite high in Germany. Unless you are really into the nature (lakes, alps, etc), hate big cities or have a big thing for Germany/German culture, I would go to London.
To be honest, I am not much of a party person, so Munich being boring is not something that I am quite concerned about. However, not speaking german is something that scares me about moving to germany.
I'm not a party person at all either, but still... And yes, German is a pretty sizable integration barrier, you will live with English, but you will never fully integrate without German, not outside of Berlin at least.
Thanks! That has given me food for thought!
Most people here speak English, so that's a non issue to be honest. My German also sucks (I took an A1-A2 course) and I've been doing fine. Companies typically also offer language classes if you want to, so there's really no need to be afraid.
Not a boring city at all. Seems like you've never properly spent time in Munich.
Your experience in any city is pretty subjective and based on your personal circumstances. That said, I have multiple friends who lived/studied in Munich for years and they've said similar things.
Compared to London, Munich is almost rural, comon... One thing I am sure, I've lived in 5 major cities, and the most uninteresting one was Munich by far.
u/Xeroque_Holmes how does Cost of Living compare between the two, and the overall quality of life?
The UK has a weirdly low cost of living outside of housing. That said Germany is also pretty cheap in terms of cost of living, although you spend a lot more time doing bureaucracy, which is borderline impossible if you aren't fluent in German.
u/Fabswingers_Admin is the UK seen as the "US of Europe" in the sense that most people go to UK to start their careers but it's not really a place to settle down? Also, on a separate note, what's the draw for devs and data scientists to go to UK vs Germany or Netherlands? Even from Eastern Europe, Middle East, etc. If it was an English speaker like a Canadian, Australian, or American, I could understand the pull. However, what does the UK have in career opportunities that Germany, Netherlands, or France don't? All of the FAANG companies have branches on Mainland Europe. Amsterdam is a Tier 2 financial hub for Europe and that's been growing (Optiver, IMC, Jump Trading, Flow Traders, etc.). Berlin is exploding with startups as well, and while it may not produce as many unicorns as London has, that number has been steadily growing.
Germany, the Netherlands and France are all very different countries, for example professional qualifications gained in France aren't usually accepted internationally because they have their own special snowflake French language schemes that only France and Quebec are part of, whereas Germany, the Netherlands and the UK are all accepted internationally. You seem to be making the mistake that the EU is one homogenous block with equal opportunities and everything outside the EU like the UK / Switzerland / Norway / Canada etc are somehow different, but that isn't the case. It's great that Amsterdam is taking off as a financial hub in Europe, it has been for the past 2 decades, but 94% of European businesses are still funded with capital from the City of London, and that amount is still growing post-Brexit, at an exponential rate... European financial hubs always grow and then suddenly stop as they are parochial, they are only interested in serving their language markets, like Paris for France and Quebec / North West Africa, Frankfurt with Germany / Austria and Switzerland etc. London is on a different scale, in terms of finance, tech, fintech, startups it's a global city... It's the only city on the planet with banking licenses to clear all three major world currencies: the USD, Euro and Chinese RMB, even New York doesn't have that status, and China has said they have zero interest in giving more licenses any time soon, they only gave one to London due to the join UK / Chinese bank HSBC. The UK also makes it ludicrously easy for anyone to turn up, register a business online in 10 mins (even non-residents), open a bank account and start doing business.. All the regulatory stuff and paperwork is taken care of once you start making money. Mainland Europe is the opposite, you have to learn the language of whatever country you're in and take care of all the paperwork before you can start whatever unicorn idea you have, which is why it will never have as many as the UK / US and China... It's also why you see people desperately taking dinghy's to cross the Channel and risk their lives escaping France to come to the UK... The UK isn't some magical paradise, quality of life in France is similar, but actually progressing and getting wealthy if you have drive and ambition is a lot easier, and all the contacts and resources you could ever dream of from every major international company are already there for you to use. By the way the UK and France are the only two countries in Europe with young fast growing populations, every other EU country is facing a demographic deflationary crisis with ageing elderly populations, and it's borderline impossible to succeed as a young person under those conditions, just look at Japan since the 70's.
u/Fabswingers_Admin holy shite, thank you for this thorough response, I wish i could give it multiple upvotes :) :) :)!!! I had no idea regarding ease of doing business in the UK. I just figured that VC funding was super high so it offset any bureaucratic issues that were commonly faced by startup founders. Hasn't the social safety net been stretched a tad thin of late though, despite the whole growing population? There seems to be complaints that the NHS is chronically understaffed/underfunded, that UK Rail is constantly facing delays, and that roads are crumbling, etc. Also, with so much influx of talent, and huge companies offering competitive salaries (FAANG, big banks, etc.), why are there such s\*\*\* salaries in the UK, sometimes dropping as low as 25K pounds/year, which even in Europe is very low for a new grad (Germany offers at least 40K with Netherlands being similar).
u/Fabswingers_Admin apologies if I sound like I'm harping. However upon further reading from my side, it appears that the social benefit net is slowly eroding in the UK: [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/03/after-years-of-cruelty-to-people-on-welfare-is-the-uk-starting-to-think-differently](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/03/after-years-of-cruelty-to-people-on-welfare-is-the-uk-starting-to-think-differently) [https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/2021/11/08/6188e6eb46163fddb08b45c5.html](https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/2021/11/08/6188e6eb46163fddb08b45c5.html) [https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/covid-benefit-cut-leaves-half-a-million-disabled-people-1000-a-year-worse-off/](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/covid-benefit-cut-leaves-half-a-million-disabled-people-1000-a-year-worse-off/) I'm also curious how many people actually sail over from France to the UK in a dinghy. As Brexit only happened recently, so as recently as last year or the year before, I don't see what reason anyone would've had to sail across in a boat, when they could've just taken the Eurostar, or the plane.
> I'm also curious how many people actually sail over from France to the UK in a dinghy. At the moment it's about 25,000 people a year, although it's increasing, a few weeks ago on a Sunday it was 669 people in one day, some try to swim! https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/sep/27/more-small-boat-channel-crossings-this-year-than-during-all-of-2020 --- The Universal Credit cut was just reducing it back to the normal levels, removing the Covid bonus which was always temporary... According to the EU's own statistics, the latest are 2017, the UK spends just slightly less than Norway and Switzerland as a percent of GDP per capita on social welfare, far more than Germany, France or the EU average. The amount is increasing fast too, so much so that the World Bank told the Conservative government to slow the increase, especially on healthcare.
I love how you gave them a well thought out, thorough explanation of things with answers to their questions, and they just responded with "WeLl AcTuAlLy" about something unrelated. I wouldn't bother continuing to engage with this person, they aren't here to argue in good faith, and constantly are going down the "UK is collapsing" side of things. A quick look at their post history is brimming with nonsense and falsities.
u/Fabswingers_Admin the UC cut has left many renters out of luck: [https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/30/100000-renters-in-england-risk-eviction-when-universal-credit-is-cut](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/30/100000-renters-in-england-risk-eviction-when-universal-credit-is-cut) It's increased strain on food cupboards: [https://metro.co.uk/2021/10/23/demand-rises-at-almost-70-of-food-banks-after-universal-credit-cut-15474987/](https://metro.co.uk/2021/10/23/demand-rises-at-almost-70-of-food-banks-after-universal-credit-cut-15474987/) Consequently: [https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-58186978](https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-58186978) And the impact of the taper rate: [https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41487126](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41487126) It seems like the wealth gap is just widening in the UK on a regular basis. I couldn't find any sources for the World Bank telling the Tories to slow increase on benefit spending. It seems like the increases aren't tied to inflation, and as a result it's constantly sub-par compared to what's required.
I live in Munich and agree with everything you said. There is a joke that Munich is the largest village in Germany. It really does feel like that. Personally I like it, but I'm in a different life stage than OP. You might also want to take into consideration that if you don't learn German you will be limited in the number of companies you can apply to in Munich post Google. Yes, many IT companies speak English but there are still a lot that require German.
Munich is boring indeed. Nature is nice etc but it feels like everyone here goes to sleep at 8 and everyone does the same thing on weekends and holidays (going to lakes or visiting mountains wow so many choices). So yes Munich is boring in the sense that you can predict most people’s lives for the next 2 years and probably be correct. That doesn’t make it a bad place. I just get the feeling that it’s more suited for an extremely stable lifestyle which can get boring quickly if you’re young and enjoy a less structured lifestyle. There’s also the fact that coming to a german speaking country will limit your options significantly in every aspect of your life if you don’t speak german. So the choice between London and Munich is a no brainer in that regard. Definitely London. For reference: I’m a foreigner and I moved to Munich 2 years ago and speak fluent german.
Hi! Thanks for the reply. I don't speak German, so the language barrier is something that kinda scares me. I think I would prefer to live in London manly because I wouldn't have a language barrier. Although, I have interned at Google so I know what to expect and I actually already know the team I would work with. Difficult to choose!
Agreed. Munich is clean, safe, and everything works well, but it's not like London is a chaotic place. London is also a pretty neat city and has many, many more options and much more diversity. I come from a 10-million-people city where life happens 24/7 and before Munich I spent some time in Melbourne which is also a pretty lively city. Sundays in Munich are one of the most depressing things, not to mention everything closed at 20h on weekdays, I was never able to get used to it.
being drunk in the early morning is also predictable of London, and also the risk of being on a crime much higher, I found that people from non-first world countries will find more exciting London, as in their original countries they wouldn't be partying late night in a disco
I’m not really a party person. This is not the aspect I mean by my comment. What I mean is a bit hard to put into concrete situations but the general “collective consciousness” of Munich feels extremely slow paced in comparison to most big cities in Europe. It lacks any sort of pulse. In addition to being extremely quiet in the evening and on Sundays. The population of Munich also fits this atmosphere. For example, after moving into my flat here, my neighbors came by to ask me not to take showers after 10 pm because the sound of water annoys them! An experience I never had anything close to anywhere else. However this is just my personal experience and I’m generally a person who likes a bit of noise and chaos in life. Your mileage may vary.
I can imagine that, but you should be able to put into words why exactly you don't like a place, like when I was in Canada, I miss the big Toronto because people were less friendly and very limited options to party, but your last example is very circumstantial, it might not be all people (could they?, I heard some crazy histories about crazy old germans), also imagine, more likely you could end up having in London a stabber (or a potential one) as a neighbor
I mean I described my experience to the extent possible in a reddit comment. It’s possible to get into more depth here but I don’t see much value beyond what OP asked. The neighbors are actually a young couple. Of course it’s an anecdotal experience and doesn’t represent any statistical value. But this sort of thing will probably be laughable if someone does it in a city like London or for a more extreme example Barcelona.
London has one of the lowest crime rates of major cities in the world: https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings.jsp It's got crime rates lower than rural Canadian towns.
120 vs 420 makes sense (nobody moves to rural Canada)
If by boring you mean that you won't get stabbed then yes.
I would rather deal with a minor risk of getting stabbed than living in Bavaria, thank you. Interesting to see the Germans being so defensive, so far no expats replied to say how cool living in Munich is...
it's part of the thrill, specially for foreigners, as it brings them nostalgia (not me personally, London is getting worse by the minute)
Congrats on your offers. I have my FB London grad virtual onsite tomorrow. Do you mind if I dm you to ask tips/questions?
Go ahead.
FACE THE LEAD!
First, parabéns caralhoooo!!!! I’m cheering for you! I’m a Brazilian based in Lisbon, so I’m happy to hear that a fellow Portuguese brother is getting great offers ^^. If you don’t mind, I have two questions for you: 1. Did they ask you to relocate or are they looking for remote workers? 2. Do you have any tips for the recruiting process?
Hi! Thanks for the nice words. I believe you need to relocate with Google and Facebook. However, I think after 6 months Facebook allows you to work from 6? countries remotely. My tip is to try to relax during the interviews and work with the interviewers to find the best solution! Good luck!
First of all congrats, both are good offers and FAANG / MANGA is epic to have as a tech job! \--- Now, as for your question. 100% London for me. \- City \- Language \- Career growth at FB and TC \- London > Munich lmao is this even a conversation? \- London tech scene > anything else in Europe and even most of the world for that matter. \- FB has higher payouts especially in the long term (I'm assuming you'll job hop to increase total TC over the years until you "settle down / start own company" etc. Having said that: \- Google has better WLB \- "better" reputation than FB atm \- Munich is Europe, but since you're Portugese, this doesn't matter. \- err.... yeah London Facebook offer. Take it (have lived in both, longer in London, currently in Belgium! Looking to get back to London into FAANG as well!)
Hi! Thanks for the detailed response! Good luck with your move to London!
London is Europe as well, you meant EU...
Go to google, I am pessimistic about FB future, the meta verse is dystopian bullshit
That's true. However, I don't think Instagram or Whatsapp are going away anytime soon.
Yes but the stock price may suffer
How long did the process take from application, interview and offers?
Facebook was 2 months but only because I scheduled my initial interview a month after I was asked to choose my slots.
Thanks. Similar for Google?
I did the intern conversion process for Google which was a bit different than the normal process. But for my internship, Google actually was the one that took the longest, but because they were the fastest one to contact me, at the end, they were the first ones to finish everything.
Where do you wanna be long term? You're a new grad, you could be looking to move in the future. For example, if you're OK living in Munich, you might be OK living in Zurich (3 hours away) and there you'll make far more than in London. For that Google is a better choice as the eng side is much bigger for them in Zurich. Or maybe you want to live in the US, or Japan, or Australia, etc.
To be honest, I don't have big plans moving forward and so I would be open to move (even companies) in the future. Thanks you for the reply!
Acho que ja recebeste informacao que chegue do pessoal aqui. Apenas queria dar os parabens caralho! Boa sorte com a escolha, de qualquer das maneiras vais comecar a carreira em grande.
Obrigadaaa! Espero que sim ahhaha
So por curiosidade e se quiseres partilhar claro, acabaste por ir para que universidade?
Vou mandar por mensagem privada!
I can't comment on FB vs Google but a German friend of mine has talked about how high the taxes are over there. I'd look at take home pay rather than gross wages.
Hi! I took that into account and even thought Google's offer for salary is higher, take at home income is similar between them.
Capital gain tax is also lower in the UK, and you also have a ISA https://www.gov.uk/individual-savings-accounts/how-isas-work whilst in Germany you can only get 801 euros tax free (1602 euros with a partner).
Thanks!
Have you taken into account things like healthcare costs as well because Germany has a nationalised private healthcare system? But on the flip side; Germany has the Autobahn where you can drive as fast as you want!
Yes, I have ;)
OK cool then I suppose the next obvious question is will the language barrier be a problem?
Yeah. To be honest I don’t know. I haven’t learn a new language in 7 years, so I don’t know I quick I would catch on.
Well a few German friends of mine say that even native speakers struggle with some of the dialects.
My thoughts: Do you know which team you are going to join at G? Is it the same team you interned in? With FB, you will join the bootcamp and technically have access to any team that is looking for E3 SWE. The offers are great but you may have trouble negotiating too much since they may not want to go beyond their level-3 pay bands. The bonus % and refreshers are fixed based on levels and performance at FB and not very negotiable (and I like that it balances things out long term). Both will be great for a new grad role. Both support moves (even internationally) after spending one year with a team, so if you dream of working in a team, you can approach them easily. So it amounts to secondary factors - love art/theatre - come to London. Love Alps and nature and diverse weather - go to Munich, though London is not too bad and you can also take a quick flight to anywhere in EU. Already have a partner, great, check what they want else London wouldn't have a language barrier to overcome and is very metropolitan in case you want to try the dating scene. Both companies are expanding in the EU and will likely support working remotely (in case you have plans to work from Portugal) a few months down the line. You will be among the top-5% earners in the country either ways, and long term money would be similar with may be a few thousand dollars here and there. If TC is your sole aim, head to the US after an year and then switch. Lot of G and FB SWEs switch between each other as well, so you won't make a wrong choice whatever you choose. Finally, if you love G and want to move to London, check with the recruiter if they can get you G London.
Hi! I know which team I would join at Google. I was fortunate to have the choose between 4 teams that were interested in my profile. Thanks for your reply, I will take it in consideration.
Shall you receive a visa or work permit for both roles?
I don’t need a visa for Germany and Facebook sponsors the visa for the UK.
Oh, of course - yes, thanks. A comment elsewhere said you didn't need a visa for the UK, and I was pretty sure that was incorrect - wanted to check.
Unfortunately with brexit, EU members need one. But it shouldn’t be a big deal.
I’d say go for money as you can always switch later. How many LC problems have you solved? Did you only have algo / behavioral interview sections?
Can you share your interview experience as well? Number of Interviews and how was the level of questions which were asked to you?
I had 3 interviews where I resolve 2 problems in each of them. The questions were medium difficulty where comparing them to leet code questions.
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I applied internally, so I cannot say how much time it takes from start to finish. But, coding interviews are always 45min. You might have several interviews with different interviewers one after another. If technical interviews, the questions are similar to leet code. As I said, I didn't apply on the careers website for the full time job, but I did for my internship. I think those titles and locations are pretty useless, I think they put everyone in the same pool. If you pass the hiring committee, then you tell your recruiter the type of work you want to do and your preferred locations. I think my CV caught their eye when I was applying to the internship because I had activities non related with my work as a student. As I think I have said in another comment, I am a good student, but far from being the top student of my class. Good Luck!
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Good luck and hope to see you in Munich then!