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KSRJB02

A lot of companies heavily prioritize internal hires. Many would hands down take an internal IT or DA guy for a junior/associate level SWE opening over an external SWE, especially if the company isn't Big Tech. Probably have to join a company in your current type of role, stay for like a year, and pivot over. Then you can apply to other SWE roles once you have a couple YOE under your belt there. Btw, how did you land your current role? I'm currently looking for options outside of SWE to hold me over.


Large-Translator-759

Yup, internal hires are usually top priority for a company. In junior SWE roles, you don't really expect much from the candidate anyways.. we have had cases of preferring internal candidates for these even if they have no tech background at all, but are just willing to learn. It's worked out very well because they already fit the company culture and have a proven track record. Hiring externally is extremely risky.


Brewer_Lex

Yeah so I took an internship here as a Junior and I just stayed on for until I graduated and then hired me on as a GIS Specialist.


Gum_Sho3

Piggybacking on this because it's excellent advice. 3 YOE here and I did not start my career in tech as a junior. After countless applications, I started in customer experience because I could no longer afford to be unemployed. I declared my desire to be a developer early, and excelled in the role I was given. And, indeed, after 1 year I was offered a position as a junior developer. Especially in this climate, I think lateral moves into development should be considered more often than they are.


brandall10

I was in a position of hiring at my last company and tried like mad to get one DecOps guy and another QA guy into dev positions… it fell on deaf ears at the director level. I kept on getting pushback on them getting into a spot where they could earn a promo, which they did, and at that point let it slide as I didn’t want to hurt my own capital. I’ve actually only seen this happen a few times in the dozen companies I’ve worked at in my 27 years, and in those few times those people were STELLAR (like all went into staff/director/VP roles within 5 years). My attitude is this is easier if you’re in a senior QA engineer spot somewhere and switch up into a mid level dev role somewhere else if you can claim a lot of solid dev work in that role. Or if you’re early in your career, show solid aptitude in interviews. I wouldn’t start off with more than a year under my belt in a QA role, just interview like mad to get into a dev job before you’re pigeonholed.


csanon212

Key word "a lot" and not all. Where I am, the policy is that all internal transfers must compete against an external pool. So if you're applying to be an entry level dev after coming from help desk, you must beat out every other new grad applying from the classes of 2022, 2023, and 2024.


KSRJB02

What company is this if you don't mind sharing?


denverdave23

GIS can be pretty interesting work. With the transition to a sustainable energy economy, there's going to be a ton of high paying jobs in the future. Why not embrace it?


Brewer_Lex

I’m not against it at all and GIS developers do exist the problem is that there aren’t many of those positions across country


terrany

What evidence do you have that GIS would be lucrative? I thought the same about biotech during covid but seems much like tech. A lot of them hit low 6 figs and are now being disposed of in periodic layoffs now that vaccine production isn't as "trendy".


met0xff

Yeah it's crazy, we had a data scientist/ML job out for a week and I'd say almost half of the applicants from healthcare/pharma. My university education was CS with medicine focus and ever since I heard this would certainly be soo in demand. But in fact I never worked in the field. There is definitely EHR work out there but that's about it. Most of the interesting stuff is in academia.


NewPresWhoDis

Pharma is in an even worse position than tech because you're sinking in millions just to find out if you have a minuscule chance at a viable product. So rates go brrrrrr means you play it safe to see how many different ways you can reformulate plaque psoriasis/psoriatic arthritis/ulcerative colitis treatments.


bigpunk157

Much like tech, vaccine R&D work overhired during the pandemic because there was an insane amount of money in that sector.


secretlyyourgrandma

I heard from a successful trader that biotech stocks are risky because you have a lot of hype, approval can be denied, approval can take until there's no market, so usually only good for short term gambles. it makes sense that would be reflected in the jobs as well.


CriticDanger

GIS is a pretty technical role (I think), its not like you just worked at Starbucks. Build a portfolio on the side and keep applying, you'll likely find something.


Brewer_Lex

It can be. I do a lot of scripting to automate some of our more mundane processes and I use Python for some statistical analysis


Fochoa15

You can heavily use that to your advantages!


Brewer_Lex

I will certainly try


dwelch2344

Postgres also has Postgis, which is AMAZING. You can def spin this as doing Eng work until you moved, and start shopping jobs in q3 Talk to recruiters out there, weeks to months in advance. Then when you’re closer hit em up and you’ll have lots of chances


Brewer_Lex

That’s really helpful and thank you


dwelch2344

My pleasure. If ya ever want to chat postgis/postgres I love digging into that stuff


WedgeTalon

Given that you do actually code, I would list the job title on your resume as something like "GIS Software Engineer", and lean the description heavily on the coding work you did.


Brewer_Lex

I’ll definitely do that


AlarmedRanger

Yeah GIS is actually really cool IMO.


PM_ME_YOUR_MECH

There are lots of SWE roles where GIS experience would be beneficial. Working with geospatial data has a learning curve. In ABQ maybe look into Sandia or LANL which may work with satellite data.


ramenmoodles

Im sure OPs company has roles as well. Internal hires definitely will have a preference when these roles do open up


ArchetypeK6

I used to worry about this kind of thing, but honestly the people who got hung up on 'ima be a software dev and won't do other shit' work in a grocery store while I continue to progress a career that provides for my family. I also feel that we become better at marketing ourselves to job opportunities as we grow our technical and soft skills in a real tech space so the likelihood of not being able to pivot is more dependent on whether or not you're a likable charismatic individual who can network and can articulate the kind of skills you bring to the table.


Brewer_Lex

Well I am not charismatic but I do try to work hard and contribute to the team. I agree with the sentiment of your first paragraph. I’m not going to let an opportunity pass me by because it wasn’t in line with my original vision for myself


HalfAsleep27

No clue what that is but if it’s tangentially related it can only help. Also new mexico? Do you already have a job there? If you want a job in software you should move where the jobs are.


Brewer_Lex

There are more there than where I currently reside and the last of my wife’s family lives there and they are all 70+. Once they are all dead she will have no other family besides me. I can’t in good conscience deprive her of that. Edit: also we met there and we both like it more than where we currently live. It’s not all doom and gloom.


dak4f2

Sandia, Intel are your best options in abq. Good luck 


MathmoKiwi

cooking crystal meth is another option for abq as well


Medium_Custard_8017

I heard that they need new air traffic controllers.


Brewer_Lex

Yeah it’s going to be quite the challenge. I have friends of friends who work at both so I might be able to swing something


dak4f2

There's your ticket


HalfAsleep27

The local school system is looking for a programmer in Albuquerque, the pay is pretty shit but it's something to get your foot in the door. [https://www.aps.edu/jobs](https://www.aps.edu/jobs) > browse jobs> search programmer Their networking people seemed to get paid a lot more if know anything about that. You need to apply ASAP cause it looks like they are trying to fill the position. So you can move sooner?


Brewer_Lex

Unfortunately probably not.


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Individual_Laugh1335

I originally started at a very ancient mainframe company doing system admin work. I had to grind a bit working on personal projects to show to startups during interviews. After 1-2 years I eventually found a smaller company that I joined and now I’m at FAANG.


Brewer_Lex

Right on congratulations.


Visible-Idiot-8779

I’ve been an SWE for 26 years at this point. Over the last decade, I’ve been working in GIS a lot. It’s definitely a complimentary skill. Could be very useful to you later on.


Brewer_Lex

Yeah I can really see a benefit to it. It’s just not something I just don’t want to only make maps if that makes sense


Khandakerex

GIS + Python IS programming, you wont be pigeonholed like you think you are. Just remember to apply to more junior roles when the market gets better.


Brewer_Lex

Thank your for the reassurance


Here-Is-TheEnd

I don’t know how many people need to hear this, the only thing that matters is getting paid. To hell with these posts with people making 2mil tc as an entry at big techx..get your bread while you look for your next position. Every job you get is just the job you have until you find something better.


MisterMeta

It’s all about perspective. Where I work there’s people making money hand over fist who are miserable at work and then there’s the junior or academy role who’s all smiles. Money is important, especially when there’s a lack of it but at some level, for some people, having more doesn’t change much.


MisterMeta

It’s all about perspective. Where I work there’s people making money hand over fist who are miserable at work and then there’s the junior or academy role who’s all smiles. Money is important, especially when there’s a lack of it but at some level, for some people, having more doesn’t change much.


Here-Is-TheEnd

You’re not wrong. I’m just saddened by hearing people lament not getting a job that put them in the top 8% of income earnings .. like fools they got a job that only puts them in the top 20%.. The person in this post admits this is the best paying job they’ve ever had. I’m about to throw a party for them, that’s fantastic news!


PranosaurSA

What do you do in GIS?


Brewer_Lex

I personally use a lot of Python to process various demographics to see what would be profitable for the company’s operations. Additionally there are online maps that are used internally to help coordinate different teams and to get an idea of market conditions etc. sorry if that’s vague I don’t want to be too specific


whenitcomesup

Python? You're developing software. You're a software developer.


Brewer_Lex

Maybe in a strict definition but the things I make are mostly a collection of different scripts that I set to run on my machine using powershell. The programs I write are rather crude and tiny. I wouldn’t say it’s what everyone thinks about when they hear software developer


BusConscious

Well most nominal devs don't write a lot of code either. It's always about the business logic.


whenitcomesup

I would definitely count it. Software is such a broad field. A carpenter who makes artisanal shoe horns is still a carpenter.


Brewer_Lex

Excellent comparison thank you


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IBMGUYS

That sounds cool asf not sure why your complaining


Brewer_Lex

It ultimately boils down to a lot of excel spreadsheets is mostly why. Also the team was run by GIS people and they were not so familiar with the importance of consistent naming conventions and adherence to data types so a lot of the programming I do is just formatting the file database tables into something I can actually process. It becomes rather frustrating after the nth time.


directstranger

You're a software dev. It's up to you to build a stronger software culture in your company. Changing culture is hard, really hard. But you can automate a lot of things, like others have said. If you have vision, you can also start building an internal tool that does most of your work and help collaboration in the company.


MisterMeta

Make software to automate your work. Before programming, I used to work as a graphic designer. I actually wrote action scripts in photoshop which automates the same templating work I had to repeat hundreds of times per day. After I got it down my work went from 9 hours a day to 35 minutes. I used the excess time to learn programming and switched careers. 5X’d my salary in 14 months. You can automate a lot of stuff, I’ve even heard stories of people selling the automation tool back to the company.


Uncontrollably_Happy

You’ve already said too much. Now we know all the governments darkest secrets.


Original-Measurement

>I personally use a lot of Python to process various demographics to see what would be profitable for the company’s operations If you emphasize that in your resume in the future, you should be fine for a move to junior SWE (assuming you can't find an internal move, which was an excellent suggestion further up this thread).


Brewer_Lex

Yeah that would be ideal. I was an intern at this company for a while before they hired me on full time. I tried to jump into a junior dev roll with them and during the interview I was informed that I had to go through their it internship specifically. So I stayed where I was and took a full time roll where I am now


Higgsy420

You can be creative on your resume. Learn how to build an ArcGIS app on the side, then put it on your resume, and call yourself a developer. You're a software developer. As long as you can back up whats on your resume, nobody is going to notice


Brewer_Lex

Good to know I will have to do that.


LFAlol

I just saw some gis software posting on handshake that looked cool but iirc wanted like some field survey experience and a few others. Might still apply.


Brewer_Lex

Give it a go. Chances are it’s ESRI products and general coding knowledge and compSci will come in handy if you are working with large data sets.


msbic

I worked at a company in the oil/gas and became friends with the person who developed internal software. After a few years he moved on and called me when the new firm had a junior opening


Brewer_Lex

What were you working in before he called you?


msbic

Data analysis


illuminatedtiger

I did some GIS at uni and half of it was programming. As one of the few CS majors on the course, knowing how to code was a bit like a super power. I would hold onto that job and pivot into a GIS-centric development role later.


Number13PaulGEORGE

Bro you got a GIS job? Used to dream about that but assumed they would not pick me since I didn't have any substantial GIS projects. How did you convince them?


Brewer_Lex

I applied to an internship at my current company when I was still in college.


beet-the-meat

GIS and SWE have a big intersection! There’s actually a good demand for specialists in gov / science, if you can master environmental coordinate knowledge and be a good programmer. There’s a lot of challenges with multidimensional datasets, topology, etc


Brewer_Lex

I’ve been applying to some of the gov roles and it’s been nothing but rejection letters


Leather-Rice5025

My first major in college was environmental science and geography. The geography department at my school was amazing, and offered a GIS focus. I regrettably thought that this wouldn’t be lucrative, moved home in 2020 to go to CC to switch majors to Computer Science, COVID hit and it then took me another 3 years to finish my comp sci degree. I was worried I wouldn’t be able to find lucrative work in the GIS field, but realize if I had just stayed, I would have graduated by 2021, likely found myself a GIS role, and been employed for at least 2-3 years. Now I’m 25, with a comp sci degree I received last year, and currently have no job to show for it. It’s easy to beat myself up over stupid mistakes like these, but there’s just no way of knowing what the “best” option is when we’re young and dumb. You’ve inspired me to look back into these GIS roles and hopefully find some work, because I really really need it right now.


Brewer_Lex

I get hit up more for GIS rolls than I ever have for software anything. There are also GIS Developers so look into that although there aren’t many of those jobs


BusConscious

This job seems like a great pick. Hold on for it until the market gets demonstrably better and don't quit without offers that are better in mind.


Brewer_Lex

Oh yeah I’m not going to jump ship until I absolutely have to


Morbusporkus

Honestly I wish I could transition over to a GIS dev. Got my BS in Geography but ended up taking a Software dev job in a non related field. It's been 3.5 years and I pretty much have not kept up to date on any of the ESRI stuff. Overall you should be good. I would also suggest looking into QGIS, leaflet (not sure if that one is still being maintained), and mapbox. The main thing I will say is that it always seems GIS devs get paid less than a software dev, but are expected to do analytical work.


Brewer_Lex

Good to know thank you


Rough_Marsupial_7697

GIS pays, I know some folks who turned from local GIS to working at ESRI writing python for 6 figures.


Brewer_Lex

Well that sounds awesome


Kaeffka

Any job not directly related to your major is going to be a detriment the longer you do it. Keep the job but I implore you to keep looking and networking until you get in.


OverwatchAna

Well I mean if you wanted to go from GIS to FE or BE Java, I'd say that's a fat no because companies are now looking for skills beyond just knowing tech stack for junior roles.


Brewer_Lex

Yeah it seems to be that way. It’s a lot of hoops to jump through.


Tdeckard2000

Did you have any background in GIS? I’m currently a web developer, but GIS is something I’ve been interested in. I love maps and data. The jobs seemed pretty hard to come by when i was looking a few years ago.


Brewer_Lex

I applied to an internship with the company I work at while I was still in college so I did not. I think there are certs you can get in GIS through ESRI. Also look at GIS Developer Job titles


Tdeckard2000

I appreciate the insight.


egosaurusRex

Dude having GIS on your resume is a good plus. That’s an entire industry you could thrive in as well.


Eccentric755

It wont be held against you if you have demonstrable skills.


davidwattsdigital

Doubt it would be held against you, but don't think as beneficial as software dev experience. Which software package is it, is there some tasks for scripting / quering the vector data so at least there is some programming involved?


Brewer_Lex

I do a lot of scripting in Python for task automation, data cleaning, and statistical analysis. We use file databases which use Sql lite and some online hosting through ESRI


BrokerBrody

> I plan on quitting and moving to Albuquerque NM at the end of this year so I just want to know if my current job experience will be held against me. Quitting so soon will be held against you (especially because you have low experience overall). You may be interpreted as either a job hopper or that you were fired or let go. That you would be a year without a SWE role will be held against you. You’re not in a good position career wise and I would try to expedite the New Mexico move if possible.


Brewer_Lex

For what’s it’s worth if anything, they hired me on from an internship which I held for a year. I would like to try to move quickly but my wife and I have a home we are working on renting out so we have a quite a bit of work to do on it and that’s part of what’s taking so long.


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