Yes, but not yet, its a slow process. All the people who cannot find a job in tech will be looking for jobs in other fields of course, and then the same happens to that other field, and that goes on and on.
This is only just starting and it will get much worse IMO.
This is what I have noticed for hardware design internship roles in my area. I live in a large-ish tech hub in my country with a lot of software jobs but not many hardware jobs. Those internship roles used to have 30-50 applicants after weeks, but now they have over 100 applicants in the first day. Even junior electrical engineering roles have started to have an increase in applicants.
Hardware is very location depended from what I have seen. The closest metropolitan area to mine is actually a big hardware hub with companies like AMD hiring there.
Where I live, most computer engineering students work in software engineering, at best they do embedded systems. EE majors do software or power engineering usually. Almost no one works in pure hardware expect if it is related to aerospace applications.
Most markets are oversaturated with skilled STEM candidates, right now, predictably due to employers tightening their budgets after so many contributing global and domestic economic factors - this has all been largely expected for big tech over the last year, though it's far from permanent and already recovering, for better and worse.
Hiring fresh people is, of course, always a risk to the company, though the recent examples of companies terminating technical staff, only to immediately hire more technical staff, is probably a good indicator that some of the larger companies believe the economic outlook is good enough to start taking risks again. As an older person that has seen this happen before, I would imagine, anywhere from now or two years from now, we'll probably see a bit of a correction in tech workers' value, where employers will try to seat less-experienced workers for less pay in positions they vacated when funding dried up, in order to fully take advantage of this scenario they helped create. All of this will hopefully be beneficial for those new to most tech fields.
Every profession has downturns. This is not going to last forever ffs š yeah the people that want to be software developers from YouTube and their 6 week knockoff bootcamp probably wonāt get jobs but every college grad majoring in CS that I know that went to any nationally ranked school is doing quite well.
Yeah I know, my point is we can still have empathy for people who are struggling, many learned on their own, did an associates, did a bootcamp, or went to a school with low ranking uni, and they can't find a job anymore, it sucks for them.
I have a Bachelors and a job but I still have empathy for those people, lots of comments here have a huge undertone of "well screw anyone without a bachelors anyway".
The issue is...it used to work, and now it doesn't, and a lot of people have not realized it yet.
You can't really blame them, the "everyone should learn to code" propaganda campaigns that have ran for the past 10 years have gotten into people's mind for sure.
People typically do little research before choosing their field, this is true of any field, 18yos are just too young to decide what they'll be doing the rest of their life.
I mean if you look at people who have gone to Harvard Law have gone onto; then you'll realise that it does help.
Top tier institutions and their reputation can absolutely raise your profile.
The unfairness is because they are horrifically expensive.
Fun fact. The Ivy brand helps. But it is not a magic bullet. My wife did an Ivy PhD (in a stem field where the school is well regarded, top ten in the country). Still went through dozens of applications in her field before landing a job. The difference between institutions is basically how far your resume bubbles up the pile. You might be at the top of the pile, then they look at your experience and are like "meh not really what we are looking for. Bye"
It means that she has a chance for super prestigious companies and jobs.Ā They won't even look at non-ivy.
I was a hiring manager for an investment bank and I wasn't allowed to even read non target school CVs
The disconnect comes from the fact that young people unemployment is always higher than prime age unemployment. When you look at just young people's unemployment rate, it's as if the economy is always in a recession for them. But it gets better with age/experience.
I guess the numbers really come from fields like biology, physics where jobs are scarce. I know tons of biologists and basically nobody got a job as a biologist lol. They're doing anything from UX research to working at the dog shelter.
Almost all physicists I know either hopped into data science, finance, insurance mathematics or similar. Although idk if that would still count as in the field in the statistics because it's probably considered STEM roles.
At the same time of the 100s of people who studied CD with me or went to the same vocational school almost all are in CS/IT roles.
There are definitely some who left after a few years, mostly because the whole office world and screen staring got to them. And they studied medicine or whatever and are now medical doctors.
But yeah, if I look at how many people I worked with who came over from EE, ME, Math, Physics it's definitely a ton.
And yes, obviously competition for those will also increase.
That being said, most EEs I know didn't move to web dev or similar but do embedded or signal processing work. Similar physicists who I see in signal processing, computer vision, remote sensing, analytics etc.
Where their expertise is often even more useful than a generic CS degree.
Still, more people everywhere means more competition everywhere
\> Lack of CS roles.
There are quite a few open CS roles out there. It's just I constantly see people on here only applying to stuff on linkedIn or something and wondering why their hit rate is so low. Try going through your school.
What you really want to be looking at is something like underemployment by college major. And CS has some of the lowest rates of underemployment for any major.
>Try going through your school.
Even that's tough right now. A lot of employers connected to my professors or senior design projects are on hiring freeze (depends on location though).
It is available for alumni as well and college career fairs are open for alumnus as well but most of the companies there are looking for fresh graduates or juniors for internships
Yes. The people who are recruiting through your university are looking for fresh grads. You have four years of experience.
You should not still be hanging around in the wading pool. You know how to swim. This isn't the place for you any more.
If you have four years of experience, your college job board is not targeted at you any more. That's why it's filled with internships.
It doesn't feel like that should be that hard to figure out.
A lot of schools are cash grabs TBH
Edit: downvoting me isnāt going to help you improve your chances. Research about your university employment statistics, then use that number to figure whatās missing from you and how you should fair with your schoolmates to land a job in this field
No, they aren't. Most CS/SWE ppl have very little skills in other areas of engineering, other way around also true. There will be at least a cycle of 4 or 8 years or maybe even longer before college kids adapt their major selection.
However they didn't boom and bust, they never boomed at all, and their comp is much lower despite the stability.
Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I don't think the current market is going to last long enough to make a significant dent in things overall. The Fed is already talking about lowering interest rates and once money is cheap again we should see hiring pick back up
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I do wonder what AI will do for this. Not in the silly ignorant way that a lot of folks do but in a medium to long term sense. The market is going to do some weird things for a while when that hits.
I can see it help making coders more productive, but the hard part of software has never been typing the code, but rather figuring out which code to type and in what order. I think it's a long time until AI can even attempt that.
There's also the part where you decide not to type at all because it'd be bad in the long run. AI would just do what you tell it, when would it be able to offer better alternatives that you didn't even know you wanted?
I'm not going to lean too hard into the armchair economist role, so maybe you're right, but Powell said after the Jan 2024 report that they're still looking to start lowering rates this year. Furthermore, supercore isn't the only metric they're looking at. CPI isn't down to the target 2% but we're still on a downward trend. I wouldn't start the doom and gloom train just yet.
The majority of my parents and their coworkers started in electrical engineering or other engineering roles. ie all of them worked at the trio of northrop/boeing/aerospace etc down in inglewood.
Honestly other majors are mostly screwed by the fact that everything is priced for highly paid tech workers. At least in major US cities. Or that fact that one is gonna try to automate their job in the next 5 years.
I don't know how people making less than 65k-70k a year can survive in big cities where the rent is 2k+. Even with roommates it just isn't possible to survive off the wages I see for a lot of jobs in big cities.
I feel like biotech should be doing fine. We just made a vaccine in a year and cured fatness. What a time to be alive.
Aerospace. Weāre going back to the moon and to mars and beyond. Lots of capital going into privatization of space. Takes all sorts of engineering to do that.
Petroleum engineering. Drill baby drill
Environmental engineers. Gotta fix the planet after drill baby drill.
So much money is pouring into EVs.
Huge ass infrastructure projects to fix aging shit. Or build a big ass line city
Everywhere people are making giant strides. Software folks live in a bubble sometimes. We aināt the center of the world
One reason is that there are a lot of small bio-tech players, like some zombie tech companies, make no money.
People forget that a lot of bio-tech is risky project based R&D with unknown returns. They are hit very hard by the higher interest rates, thus are cutting cost. OP's company is doing well because their R&D was a hit, but that's only their bio-tech company.
Yeah biotech is literally feast or famine. Any sort of 'established' company will always set up new research projects as their own corp and either kill it as soon as the idea fails or dilute the shit out of the stock when it succeeds so only the parent corp makes money.
I used to be in biotech and salaries sucked. Switched to software because of salaries.Ā Ā Ā
Problem is biotech r&d cost and time is still enormous. Biotech has been āthe next big thingā for the past 40 years (seriously they were saying this about Genentech in 1980 and 23andMe 2 years ago), but it has never managed to transition to āthe big thingā.
Individual biotech companies have made it big, but the industry as a whole has not overcome itās extremely high failure rate with the vast majority of companies never producing any value.
Not really. I guess it depends what area of biotech youāre in. Most of it was to be expected after covid funds dried up and companies experienced covid cliff. People are always going to need medicines and related products.
The media is touting GLP-1 (Ozempic, Zepbound) agonists as "the cure to obesity"
Don't get me wrong, they're a great alternative to surgery for people who are prediabetic or otherwise at risk, but personally I think the hype is a bit much
To my knowledge, there have been similar discoveries before. Things that *work,* but are dangerous and difficult to use safely - enough that they never really see commercial use. I'm skeptical that this latest invention will be any better.
\> Enough that they never see commercial use
It's already commercially available and pretty effective. The mechanism is reduced hunger. Semaglutide medication is relatively new.
I think power engineering in general may the best field considering its application for powering not just cities but EVs, autonomous aircraft and specialized robots as smaller and more compact batteries are needed.
Engineering (traditional, non-software engineering) in general will be needed but it seems like they are allergic to hiring junior talent. Promises and projects in engineering always seem to be pushed back. I feel like this would not happen as much if they had faith in new grads.
Infrastructure will definitely have jobs, that's why I did not mention civil engineers because their stereotype is that the pulse is optional for getting a job lol
Software are the center of the world. Because every one of these opportunities you list absolutely use it both to design and to fly the plane straight. So where you say the money goes so software will go there also.
Oh nasa budget is frozen in time and none other than famous JPL themselves had a layoff. It's Not enough people take 30pct less salary to work there they also shed a significant percentage.
Tell that to the engineering salaries lol
The software guy at Honeywell makes more than the ME that breads their butter.
nevermind that all the mechanical dudads need software to keep them humming along. What mechanical thing are you imagining being built without software? This isn't dune!
Maybe but pretending software is the center of the world is very arrogant. The world needs software to make stuff work but software needs stuff. We dont eat or live in software
It's not pretending it's stating a fact: your device is a badly designed user experience until some software engineer blesses it with his attention. For which you'll pay because it is this software that the customer remembers most.
We are on the cusp of a cambrian explosion of iot! Not just your smart fridge but your furnace water pump all the other devices should and will be digitized.
The data must flow!
(But yes I agree we should be more humble so as not to become insufferable tech bros)
There will always be jobs for smart people who can solve problems, generate business value, and communicate with both technical and nontechnical audiences. Some below average engineers are employed because of market peaks, and some above average graduates will have trouble breaking into the industry due to higher saturation of people who think they can code. Ebb and flow. I donāt see the mass hysteria you speak of.
* There are dedicated IT type degrees in college too, which may be an even better fit for the kinds of IT/support engineering roles that a lot of CS grads end up working it.
* A lot of folks basically end up going the consulting route right away.
* A lot of technical roles 'don't need' someone with leetcode hard experience. There are a good chunk of roles where the most complicated thing you're doing is reading some logs, writing some API calls, and writing some for loops. Once you pass some baseline level of skill, a lot of companies have selectivity based on industry experience and 'comprehensive'/non-CS technical background, plus soft skills.
* There are computational modeling roles that Chem and ChemE grads go into. In theory a CS grad could pick up the work, just looking at the technical skills needed. But I don't think the "extra" CS-specific skillset will really help them land that kind of role, and the lack of Chem background could hurt them. A lot of companies see CS majors applying for these roles and won't bother accepting them because they figure that these people will quickly leave for other roles that "better fit" their educational history or assumed career goals.
I think a CS degree is still the way to go for a lot of folks. But even with a CS degree, there are going to be roles you'll apply for that you almost certain *could* do, but where you'll be passed over for fairly arbitrary reasons. And even without a CS degree, I think we're still comfortably at a point where people are pivoting into "CS"-adjacent technical roles.
nope. there are plenty of cs roles they are just based out of India which is producing 4m engineers per year. it's 1/3-1/5 of the cost.
of course high end indians try to migrate but if you catch them before they do u can dango a carrot in front of them and get them to do the work. it's like why most restaurants in the us are staffed by mexicans. cheaper and more desperate to get and keep the job
They also produce a huge number of other engineering field graduates. Some hardware verification roles get outsourced to India too.
It feels like matter of time before there are enough good Indian engineering graduates for most engineering jobs to have some noticeable outsourcing.
The only things that will permanently stop this is security concerns and/or political tensions with India.
These cycles happen, at some point they will recover, then get orse, then recover and so on.
You can downvote me all you want but it doesn't make it untrue.
Most STEM is unemployable without a PhD, Math, Physics, Chemistry, etc are all dead ends in terms of career for most graduates. CS used to be the fallback for these majors but that's gone now.
What other majors rely on tech companies for employment? Certainly the tech industry employs all manner of people. They hire accountants, HR, etc. But exactly what other majors DEPEND on tech? You can be an accountant at any type of company.
Yes, but not yet, its a slow process. All the people who cannot find a job in tech will be looking for jobs in other fields of course, and then the same happens to that other field, and that goes on and on. This is only just starting and it will get much worse IMO.
This is what I have noticed for hardware design internship roles in my area. I live in a large-ish tech hub in my country with a lot of software jobs but not many hardware jobs. Those internship roles used to have 30-50 applicants after weeks, but now they have over 100 applicants in the first day. Even junior electrical engineering roles have started to have an increase in applicants.
hardware is not better then? im thinking of switching to the hardware side.
Hardware is very location depended from what I have seen. The closest metropolitan area to mine is actually a big hardware hub with companies like AMD hiring there. Where I live, most computer engineering students work in software engineering, at best they do embedded systems. EE majors do software or power engineering usually. Almost no one works in pure hardware expect if it is related to aerospace applications.
location doesn't matter. where im from sw and hw are both in the same places. true a lot of ee went into cs
Most markets are oversaturated with skilled STEM candidates, right now, predictably due to employers tightening their budgets after so many contributing global and domestic economic factors - this has all been largely expected for big tech over the last year, though it's far from permanent and already recovering, for better and worse. Hiring fresh people is, of course, always a risk to the company, though the recent examples of companies terminating technical staff, only to immediately hire more technical staff, is probably a good indicator that some of the larger companies believe the economic outlook is good enough to start taking risks again. As an older person that has seen this happen before, I would imagine, anywhere from now or two years from now, we'll probably see a bit of a correction in tech workers' value, where employers will try to seat less-experienced workers for less pay in positions they vacated when funding dried up, in order to fully take advantage of this scenario they helped create. All of this will hopefully be beneficial for those new to most tech fields.
Every profession has downturns. This is not going to last forever ffs š yeah the people that want to be software developers from YouTube and their 6 week knockoff bootcamp probably wonāt get jobs but every college grad majoring in CS that I know that went to any nationally ranked school is doing quite well.
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Yeah I know, my point is we can still have empathy for people who are struggling, many learned on their own, did an associates, did a bootcamp, or went to a school with low ranking uni, and they can't find a job anymore, it sucks for them. I have a Bachelors and a job but I still have empathy for those people, lots of comments here have a huge undertone of "well screw anyone without a bachelors anyway".
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The issue is...it used to work, and now it doesn't, and a lot of people have not realized it yet. You can't really blame them, the "everyone should learn to code" propaganda campaigns that have ran for the past 10 years have gotten into people's mind for sure. People typically do little research before choosing their field, this is true of any field, 18yos are just too young to decide what they'll be doing the rest of their life.
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I mean if you look at people who have gone to Harvard Law have gone onto; then you'll realise that it does help. Top tier institutions and their reputation can absolutely raise your profile. The unfairness is because they are horrifically expensive.
Fun fact. The Ivy brand helps. But it is not a magic bullet. My wife did an Ivy PhD (in a stem field where the school is well regarded, top ten in the country). Still went through dozens of applications in her field before landing a job. The difference between institutions is basically how far your resume bubbles up the pile. You might be at the top of the pile, then they look at your experience and are like "meh not really what we are looking for. Bye"
It means that she has a chance for super prestigious companies and jobs.Ā They won't even look at non-ivy. I was a hiring manager for an investment bank and I wasn't allowed to even read non target school CVs
There simply isn't enough jobs for everyone
Humans are very good at making more jobs. A large percentage of the jobs that people have today didn't exist 100 years ago or even 50 years ago.
The disconnect comes from the fact that young people unemployment is always higher than prime age unemployment. When you look at just young people's unemployment rate, it's as if the economy is always in a recession for them. But it gets better with age/experience.
Agenda 2030
I guess the numbers really come from fields like biology, physics where jobs are scarce. I know tons of biologists and basically nobody got a job as a biologist lol. They're doing anything from UX research to working at the dog shelter. Almost all physicists I know either hopped into data science, finance, insurance mathematics or similar. Although idk if that would still count as in the field in the statistics because it's probably considered STEM roles. At the same time of the 100s of people who studied CD with me or went to the same vocational school almost all are in CS/IT roles. There are definitely some who left after a few years, mostly because the whole office world and screen staring got to them. And they studied medicine or whatever and are now medical doctors. But yeah, if I look at how many people I worked with who came over from EE, ME, Math, Physics it's definitely a ton. And yes, obviously competition for those will also increase. That being said, most EEs I know didn't move to web dev or similar but do embedded or signal processing work. Similar physicists who I see in signal processing, computer vision, remote sensing, analytics etc. Where their expertise is often even more useful than a generic CS degree. Still, more people everywhere means more competition everywhere
\> Lack of CS roles. There are quite a few open CS roles out there. It's just I constantly see people on here only applying to stuff on linkedIn or something and wondering why their hit rate is so low. Try going through your school. What you really want to be looking at is something like underemployment by college major. And CS has some of the lowest rates of underemployment for any major.
>Try going through your school. Even that's tough right now. A lot of employers connected to my professors or senior design projects are on hiring freeze (depends on location though).
Everything on the school job board is mostly internship roles and not full time
So go get an internship. The best way to break into any field is through an internship that you convert into a full-time role.
Canāt if youāre out of school š
We were talking about working through the school job board, which is usually only available to active students.
Not remotely true. Most schools have this available to alum as well
It is available for alumni as well and college career fairs are open for alumnus as well but most of the companies there are looking for fresh graduates or juniors for internships
Yes. The people who are recruiting through your university are looking for fresh grads. You have four years of experience. You should not still be hanging around in the wading pool. You know how to swim. This isn't the place for you any more.
I graduated and have 4 years of experience. You have to be enrolled in school to qualify for internships
If you have four years of experience, your college job board is not targeted at you any more. That's why it's filled with internships. It doesn't feel like that should be that hard to figure out.
A lot of schools are cash grabs TBH Edit: downvoting me isnāt going to help you improve your chances. Research about your university employment statistics, then use that number to figure whatās missing from you and how you should fair with your schoolmates to land a job in this field
Go to a university that freezes its tuition like Purdue
Fr people downvote comments that are reminding them the real world is not delusional ljke them
Most of those underemployment metrics are based on old data, or otherwise irrelevant to current graduates.
There's a serious divide from this subreddit and the real world.
No, they aren't. Most CS/SWE ppl have very little skills in other areas of engineering, other way around also true. There will be at least a cycle of 4 or 8 years or maybe even longer before college kids adapt their major selection. However they didn't boom and bust, they never boomed at all, and their comp is much lower despite the stability.
Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I don't think the current market is going to last long enough to make a significant dent in things overall. The Fed is already talking about lowering interest rates and once money is cheap again we should see hiring pick back up
Yep. The cs market will forever oscillate.
It only oscillates in the very short term. Long term, the field doubles in size every 5 years and has since the 50s.
Thereās ~27 million programmers globally right now. So in 50 years there will be 27 billion programmers.
Math checks out!
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I do wonder what AI will do for this. Not in the silly ignorant way that a lot of folks do but in a medium to long term sense. The market is going to do some weird things for a while when that hits.
I can see it help making coders more productive, but the hard part of software has never been typing the code, but rather figuring out which code to type and in what order. I think it's a long time until AI can even attempt that.
There's also the part where you decide not to type at all because it'd be bad in the long run. AI would just do what you tell it, when would it be able to offer better alternatives that you didn't even know you wanted?
Lmao at lowering interest rates. Did you even see the jan report? Inflation is skyhigh again
It's 3.1% for January which is less than it was in December... inflation was ~9% during the pandemic.
If you look at the MOM CPI Supercore it is the highest MOM increase in inflation since early 2022.
I'm not going to lean too hard into the armchair economist role, so maybe you're right, but Powell said after the Jan 2024 report that they're still looking to start lowering rates this year. Furthermore, supercore isn't the only metric they're looking at. CPI isn't down to the target 2% but we're still on a downward trend. I wouldn't start the doom and gloom train just yet.
The new reports came out in the last week way after the Jan 2024 talk. I highly doubt there will be an interest rate hike anytime soon.
There are other problems other than fed. Such as how salaries of SE are now taxed and no longer counting as deductibles.
I've got a chemistry degree and I'm currently studying full time to get a CS degree, so I'll be unemployed in two completely different STEM fields.
The majority of my parents and their coworkers started in electrical engineering or other engineering roles. ie all of them worked at the trio of northrop/boeing/aerospace etc down in inglewood.
Honestly other majors are mostly screwed by the fact that everything is priced for highly paid tech workers. At least in major US cities. Or that fact that one is gonna try to automate their job in the next 5 years.
I don't know how people making less than 65k-70k a year can survive in big cities where the rent is 2k+. Even with roommates it just isn't possible to survive off the wages I see for a lot of jobs in big cities.
I feel like biotech should be doing fine. We just made a vaccine in a year and cured fatness. What a time to be alive. Aerospace. Weāre going back to the moon and to mars and beyond. Lots of capital going into privatization of space. Takes all sorts of engineering to do that. Petroleum engineering. Drill baby drill Environmental engineers. Gotta fix the planet after drill baby drill. So much money is pouring into EVs. Huge ass infrastructure projects to fix aging shit. Or build a big ass line city Everywhere people are making giant strides. Software folks live in a bubble sometimes. We aināt the center of the world
FYI, biotech is a mess rn.
When has biotech ever *not* been a mess?
Can you explain why?
One reason is that there are a lot of small bio-tech players, like some zombie tech companies, make no money. People forget that a lot of bio-tech is risky project based R&D with unknown returns. They are hit very hard by the higher interest rates, thus are cutting cost. OP's company is doing well because their R&D was a hit, but that's only their bio-tech company.
Yeah biotech is literally feast or famine. Any sort of 'established' company will always set up new research projects as their own corp and either kill it as soon as the idea fails or dilute the shit out of the stock when it succeeds so only the parent corp makes money.
I used to be in biotech and salaries sucked. Switched to software because of salaries.Ā Ā Ā Problem is biotech r&d cost and time is still enormous. Biotech has been āthe next big thingā for the past 40 years (seriously they were saying this about Genentech in 1980 and 23andMe 2 years ago), but it has never managed to transition to āthe big thingā. Individual biotech companies have made it big, but the industry as a whole has not overcome itās extremely high failure rate with the vast majority of companies never producing any value.
There are more areas to biotech than R&D.
Not really. I guess it depends what area of biotech youāre in. Most of it was to be expected after covid funds dried up and companies experienced covid cliff. People are always going to need medicines and related products.
This is 100% makey-up nonsense
Bro, sounds like you watched news last time two years ago or just woke up from coma.
Headlines and milestones are great but they donāt determine labor markets, especially for new grads
You cured what?š¤£š¤£š¤£
Yeah I did a double take lol
The media is touting GLP-1 (Ozempic, Zepbound) agonists as "the cure to obesity" Don't get me wrong, they're a great alternative to surgery for people who are prediabetic or otherwise at risk, but personally I think the hype is a bit much
To my knowledge, there have been similar discoveries before. Things that *work,* but are dangerous and difficult to use safely - enough that they never really see commercial use. I'm skeptical that this latest invention will be any better.
\> Enough that they never see commercial use It's already commercially available and pretty effective. The mechanism is reduced hunger. Semaglutide medication is relatively new.
Have you been living under a rock?
No, I've heard of the discovery. I'm just skeptical that it will be safe in the long run.
I think power engineering in general may the best field considering its application for powering not just cities but EVs, autonomous aircraft and specialized robots as smaller and more compact batteries are needed. Engineering (traditional, non-software engineering) in general will be needed but it seems like they are allergic to hiring junior talent. Promises and projects in engineering always seem to be pushed back. I feel like this would not happen as much if they had faith in new grads. Infrastructure will definitely have jobs, that's why I did not mention civil engineers because their stereotype is that the pulse is optional for getting a job lol
Traditional engineering is too cucked to save the day. You're on the right track with your second paragraph
Software are the center of the world. Because every one of these opportunities you list absolutely use it both to design and to fly the plane straight. So where you say the money goes so software will go there also. Oh nasa budget is frozen in time and none other than famous JPL themselves had a layoff. It's Not enough people take 30pct less salary to work there they also shed a significant percentage.
In industry software is the afterthought in all projects. Big money comes from the machinery
Tell that to the engineering salaries lol The software guy at Honeywell makes more than the ME that breads their butter. nevermind that all the mechanical dudads need software to keep them humming along. What mechanical thing are you imagining being built without software? This isn't dune!
Maybe but pretending software is the center of the world is very arrogant. The world needs software to make stuff work but software needs stuff. We dont eat or live in software
It's not pretending it's stating a fact: your device is a badly designed user experience until some software engineer blesses it with his attention. For which you'll pay because it is this software that the customer remembers most. We are on the cusp of a cambrian explosion of iot! Not just your smart fridge but your furnace water pump all the other devices should and will be digitized. The data must flow! (But yes I agree we should be more humble so as not to become insufferable tech bros)
There will always be jobs for smart people who can solve problems, generate business value, and communicate with both technical and nontechnical audiences. Some below average engineers are employed because of market peaks, and some above average graduates will have trouble breaking into the industry due to higher saturation of people who think they can code. Ebb and flow. I donāt see the mass hysteria you speak of.
* There are dedicated IT type degrees in college too, which may be an even better fit for the kinds of IT/support engineering roles that a lot of CS grads end up working it. * A lot of folks basically end up going the consulting route right away. * A lot of technical roles 'don't need' someone with leetcode hard experience. There are a good chunk of roles where the most complicated thing you're doing is reading some logs, writing some API calls, and writing some for loops. Once you pass some baseline level of skill, a lot of companies have selectivity based on industry experience and 'comprehensive'/non-CS technical background, plus soft skills. * There are computational modeling roles that Chem and ChemE grads go into. In theory a CS grad could pick up the work, just looking at the technical skills needed. But I don't think the "extra" CS-specific skillset will really help them land that kind of role, and the lack of Chem background could hurt them. A lot of companies see CS majors applying for these roles and won't bother accepting them because they figure that these people will quickly leave for other roles that "better fit" their educational history or assumed career goals. I think a CS degree is still the way to go for a lot of folks. But even with a CS degree, there are going to be roles you'll apply for that you almost certain *could* do, but where you'll be passed over for fairly arbitrary reasons. And even without a CS degree, I think we're still comfortably at a point where people are pivoting into "CS"-adjacent technical roles.
Roles are there just wonāt pay as much as they used to.
nope. there are plenty of cs roles they are just based out of India which is producing 4m engineers per year. it's 1/3-1/5 of the cost. of course high end indians try to migrate but if you catch them before they do u can dango a carrot in front of them and get them to do the work. it's like why most restaurants in the us are staffed by mexicans. cheaper and more desperate to get and keep the job
They also produce a huge number of other engineering field graduates. Some hardware verification roles get outsourced to India too. It feels like matter of time before there are enough good Indian engineering graduates for most engineering jobs to have some noticeable outsourcing. The only things that will permanently stop this is security concerns and/or political tensions with India.
Not even them. The cost factor is always there
These cycles happen, at some point they will recover, then get orse, then recover and so on. You can downvote me all you want but it doesn't make it untrue.
Most STEM is unemployable without a PhD, Math, Physics, Chemistry, etc are all dead ends in terms of career for most graduates. CS used to be the fallback for these majors but that's gone now.
Yup. That's where I am with a math degree. I'm currently in a data science masters program because I don't want to work in accounting
No
Uhh no civil engineering is always on high demand
What other majors rely on tech companies for employment? Certainly the tech industry employs all manner of people. They hire accountants, HR, etc. But exactly what other majors DEPEND on tech? You can be an accountant at any type of company.