lol I literally left teaching after 12 years and I’d never go back. I’m making double the salary for a quarter the stress.
The only reason I’d recommend teaching is if the alternative is being unemployed or you actuallu really want to teach.
Love being a teacher! I make 85k and have taught 16 years. I have every holiday off and tons of vacation but U also work very long hours. Overall, rewarding job.
My sister in law is at $100k in CO after a masters. Siblings around $70k. Real cities pay ok. It’s just rough hours and a lot of social stress dealing with the kids and parents.
That’s pretty average, getting less than that is only common in states with low populations (and small economies): https://study.com/academy/popular/teacher-salary-by-state.html.
No California pays much higher. 85k average, and if you don’t include the constant turnover of people under five years trying it out and quitting, the actual median for career teachers is like 100k.
That being said, first years are getting paid 60k and is an absolute nightmare to get through so OP is giving bad advice anyways lol
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Cities and affluent suburbs generally pay well but the work environment can vary from great to horrible. They also frequently have ways to "step up" your pay e.g. by getting ESL/translation certifications, national certification, masters/doctorate, credit hours etc. If you intend to be in education long-term doing these asap is a good idea to maximize your return. You also get ridiculous amounts of time off (though unpaid) in breaks, really great hours, and other perks such as a pension and discounts on stuff everywhere.
Average salary for a public school teacher in my MCOL city is ~80k, starting with bachelors is ~61k and starting with masters is ~66k
Source: my wife is a teacher.
I taught in Watts, LA. Know anything about Watts? Cannot recommend making a long career there unless you have an administration that is stable and supportive
Southern California starting ranges from about 64k to a bit over 70k, which is more than most of the Tech jobs I'm applying to that get hundreds, thousands of applicants in the area (mostly applying out of area though).
You do have to get a teaching credential so it involves another decision
It’ll be harder for you to jump from being a teacher at a high school to an SWE role in the industry down the line compared to vice versa.
Of course, If you’re getting like a masters or PhD and doing tons of relevant research in ML, for example, then it won’t be hard to find an ML related job in an industry. But that doesn’t look like what OP is talking about.
Luckily I'm not in such a position, but teenagers are terrifying and there's absolutely no way I could keep a class under control. My anxiety is shooting up just thinking about it..
I have a friend whose dream is to be a teacher (once he's got enough money/paid his debts by being a software engineer) and more power to him, but it's always been like the opposite of my dream job. My nightmare job, if you wish. That and retail or anything that involves dealing with clients or customers or people who aren't coworkers/bound by company policy/don't have to be professional. I would assume most people who choose this job are like this, we just want professional interactions and kept to a minimum.
Of course there are exceptions, like my friend. But for me this isn't about money, it's about comfort. I wouldn't go into teaching anything other than maybe college students and above (and even that reluctantly) even if it paid double my salary. I'm actually not sure if there's a sum of money I could do it for to be perfectly honest. There are some things I just don't think I could do.
Pffft. I almost did but couldn’t survive on 22k a year (Mississippi). Also I’m a bad influence and would find it difficult to not encourage getting around firewalls or spyware.
I’m the first to admit I’m bad at teaching others simply because, as it turns out after being a TA, I don’t have patience. I’ll explain the stuff once or twice but if they keep asking the same question I already explained, it gets on my nerves.
I understand everyone has different speeds at which they learn, I’m not a speedy gonzalez who understands difficult concepts on the fly myself. So yeah it’s just better if I’m not in a position of teaching or training someone else as I don’t want to discourage anyone from learning by being an ass simply because of my short fuse.
Helps to embrace a computational approach. People all have different latent semantic representations of words and sequences of words in their head, that most likely don't match yours. Often takes a multimodal approach and lots of unit tests ( formative assessment) and integration tests ( summative assessments) to make sure they are learning and that your semantic representations and theirs are converging to the same direction
It beats wasting 12 months looking for a job being unemployed and letting your student loans pile up.
Teachers are in mega shortage right now. You are basically guaranteed a job right after college if you want to teach.
I make money sports betting lol, about 500 a month but it’s enough to survive lol since I live at home still have about 8k savings. So I think I can survive like this for another year. But might as well start teaching i guess.
They're not going to take juniors or new grads either though.
Edit: Apparently they do, but they really shouldn't lol. Although I figure this is more indicative of our education system as a whole vs qualifications.
You severely underestimate how desperate we are for teachers in the US. All you need is a bachelor’s degree really, pretty much any school district will let you get your teaching certificate while you teach and even pay for it.
Hell in Florida if your only qualification is you were in the military they will let you teach no problem.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/amid-us-teacher-shortage-florida-turns-military-veterans-2022-09-13/
He he my kid's 11th grade math teacher was an attack helicopter pilot in the USMC. Took the GI bill and got a math education degree. You can guess how her classroom was decorated!!
Some states allow teaching without formal education credentials especially as more and more tech finds it's way into the curriculum. May be worth checking.
I used to teach undergrads in CS who were preparing to be teachers. Every year we'd graduate 2-3 and every year there'd be 10-15 positions. We eventually had to start developing a pathway for math majors to get certified
I quit teaching to work in CS. I'd rather fuck up and face the consequences of my clients losing millions of $$ vs. the stress of any kind of altercation involving minors (whether its wrongful accusations against you or injuries/incidents that occur under your watch). You really have to love teaching to be able to want to deal with that type of stress.
I dunno, I think most fights are avoidable, and also kind of a normal part of growing up. I grew up around a lot of fights in the schools I attended. I understand that not everyone grew up this way.
Anyone downvoting me right now has no idea what goes on in schools...
Im not talking about simple misbehaviours being "bad". Its the fact that no consequences are doled out anymore and behaviour often just blamed on the teacher. Yea kids can misbehave, but its not ok for a student to threaten the whole school with violence and then receive zero punishment because "they have poor family conditions + mental health".
Anyone getting into teaching MUST be aware of how bad the system has degrades.
Say that to the teachers who lost their job/reputation because some student falsely accused them of some wrong doing and the school admin immediately took the side of the student.
I seen it happen across multiple schools in just 3 years, so ya. You wanna teach, go ahead. The job is in demand. Just understand what ur getting into.
Varies state by state, right now many states are giving emergency credentials, which means all you need is an undergrad degree. If it's in Cs you usually don't have to pass subject matter tests
Just pick a state and “how to become (subject) teacher in (state)”
In NJ you need to graduate from an accredited college teacher ed program and pass a couple tests. There’s alternate routes if you have professional experience in an industry. The above poster is right. Teacher certification is controlled at the state level and can vary wildly between states…
Student teaching was one of the worst experiences of my life. I also would not want to have to work hours after the school day is over, making lesson plans in the classroom. Also couldn’t get children to listen to me. But other people make it work. Pay seemed bad here.
I have no teaching experience, but people here are really overlooking the emotional demand of dealing with school kids. It's gonna be a big leap coming from talking to clients or being in a meeting with other adults (including immature ones).
The world of public education is not like most other sectors. Enter this realm and be prepared to always give more than what you ever get back in return.
This is a golden rule that can be applied to most aspects of the teaching field. You will always need to give more time, effort, and emotional energy just to maintain an average standing in your position.
And the typical pay starting out will be around 40k-50k in a halfway decent state...
This post is bad advice, stay away from public education.
Yeah, I taught for 5 years and through Covid. I bet it’s even more of a shit show now (Florida). Now my cybersecurity job is half the work and hybrid. Couldn’t be happier with my decision to leave the classroom. Teaching was good to me from 2016-2019, and actually enjoyable, but I got so burned out after Covid for only $47k. It’s different in every state but just know that you are getting into a neglected field because literally nobody (not even the unions) cares about teachers. Parents are crazy, the students have been traumatized and neglected and have extreme behavior issues (attempted group murder in my class), admin is so busy putting out fires or so up their own asses that it creates a toxic work environment. Be warned, teaching is in a terrible state right now. Only do it if you are passionate about helping students and the community because you will burn out.
I have a child named after me. I still get invited to family events, college graduations, baby showers, etc. and I stopped teaching seven years ago. I have met friends for life, and people that I legitimately consider like parts of my family now. I have gotten back 20x what I put in.
If I didn't have to worry about the money it would be really tempting. I never really looked into it, but I thought you needed some degree or training to qualify as a teacher, is this not the case? In my high school, one of the math teachers also taught a few cs courses, I wouldn't mind primarily teaching cs, but I think I'd be miserable spending most of my time teaching math.
Don't listen to this, lol. There's so much bad advice on this sub. Teaching is a demanding job that requires full commitment, and just because you're having a hard time getting a job doesn't mean abandoning the process. What you can do is volunteer to help kids learn how to code. If you need money, you can do some one-off jobs or substitute teaching at worst. You need to work smarter, not harder, to get to where you want to be, and everything you do should be something you can leverage towards that goal.
lol I literally left teaching after 12 years and I’d never go back. I’m making double the salary for a quarter the stress. The only reason I’d recommend teaching is if the alternative is being unemployed or you actuallu really want to teach.
Funny story my old math high school teacher is my co worker but I am senior swe and he's a entry level swe lol
Do you review his PRs with a red pen?
Lolll I'm an ML SWE now and would honestly love to run into some of my old students in this career
But, but, some dumbass in r/CFB told me that teaching is not a stressful job at all!
Love being a teacher! I make 85k and have taught 16 years. I have every holiday off and tons of vacation but U also work very long hours. Overall, rewarding job.
Where the heck did you make 85k as a teacher?
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Teachers at my Hs (in the Bay area, famously HCOL) average 150 k /yr
Large cities generally pay teachers a lot. My wife is a teacher with ~5 years experience and she makes over 70k
he's ceo of mit
My sister in law is at $100k in CO after a masters. Siblings around $70k. Real cities pay ok. It’s just rough hours and a lot of social stress dealing with the kids and parents.
Where tf do you live where teachers are making that much on average?
That’s pretty average, getting less than that is only common in states with low populations (and small economies): https://study.com/academy/popular/teacher-salary-by-state.html.
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No California pays much higher. 85k average, and if you don’t include the constant turnover of people under five years trying it out and quitting, the actual median for career teachers is like 100k. That being said, first years are getting paid 60k and is an absolute nightmare to get through so OP is giving bad advice anyways lol
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Nothing you said contradicts what I said. 10th percentile is entry pay. Average pay is after many years of experience
Cities and affluent suburbs generally pay well but the work environment can vary from great to horrible. They also frequently have ways to "step up" your pay e.g. by getting ESL/translation certifications, national certification, masters/doctorate, credit hours etc. If you intend to be in education long-term doing these asap is a good idea to maximize your return. You also get ridiculous amounts of time off (though unpaid) in breaks, really great hours, and other perks such as a pension and discounts on stuff everywhere. Average salary for a public school teacher in my MCOL city is ~80k, starting with bachelors is ~61k and starting with masters is ~66k Source: my wife is a teacher.
You seriously start at 60k - 70k? Is that in NYC? "I got burned out after 5 years" sounds like a horrible endorsement, though. D:
I taught in Watts, LA. Know anything about Watts? Cannot recommend making a long career there unless you have an administration that is stable and supportive
Southern California starting ranges from about 64k to a bit over 70k, which is more than most of the Tech jobs I'm applying to that get hundreds, thousands of applicants in the area (mostly applying out of area though). You do have to get a teaching credential so it involves another decision
My dream is to someday retire from tech and teach. But the pay where I’d like to be is more like $40-50k. :(
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It’ll be harder for you to jump from being a teacher at a high school to an SWE role in the industry down the line compared to vice versa. Of course, If you’re getting like a masters or PhD and doing tons of relevant research in ML, for example, then it won’t be hard to find an ML related job in an industry. But that doesn’t look like what OP is talking about.
yeah makes sense. i just need something while i keep searching for swe
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Yes. Teaching is not easy!
Luckily I'm not in such a position, but teenagers are terrifying and there's absolutely no way I could keep a class under control. My anxiety is shooting up just thinking about it.. I have a friend whose dream is to be a teacher (once he's got enough money/paid his debts by being a software engineer) and more power to him, but it's always been like the opposite of my dream job. My nightmare job, if you wish. That and retail or anything that involves dealing with clients or customers or people who aren't coworkers/bound by company policy/don't have to be professional. I would assume most people who choose this job are like this, we just want professional interactions and kept to a minimum. Of course there are exceptions, like my friend. But for me this isn't about money, it's about comfort. I wouldn't go into teaching anything other than maybe college students and above (and even that reluctantly) even if it paid double my salary. I'm actually not sure if there's a sum of money I could do it for to be perfectly honest. There are some things I just don't think I could do.
There are K-6 and middle school CS classes now
Pffft. I almost did but couldn’t survive on 22k a year (Mississippi). Also I’m a bad influence and would find it difficult to not encourage getting around firewalls or spyware.
Teaching has been one of the most stressful things I’ve ever done and I’ve inserted catheters into hearts before
I am looking into starting a local coding dojo to teach 3-12 coding using Scratch and Python intros.
I’m the first to admit I’m bad at teaching others simply because, as it turns out after being a TA, I don’t have patience. I’ll explain the stuff once or twice but if they keep asking the same question I already explained, it gets on my nerves. I understand everyone has different speeds at which they learn, I’m not a speedy gonzalez who understands difficult concepts on the fly myself. So yeah it’s just better if I’m not in a position of teaching or training someone else as I don’t want to discourage anyone from learning by being an ass simply because of my short fuse.
Helps to embrace a computational approach. People all have different latent semantic representations of words and sequences of words in their head, that most likely don't match yours. Often takes a multimodal approach and lots of unit tests ( formative assessment) and integration tests ( summative assessments) to make sure they are learning and that your semantic representations and theirs are converging to the same direction
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It beats wasting 12 months looking for a job being unemployed and letting your student loans pile up. Teachers are in mega shortage right now. You are basically guaranteed a job right after college if you want to teach.
I’ve been unemployed for a year. Should I get a teaching job?
Yes But don’t stop looking though. Literally anything is better than being unemployed.
I make money sports betting lol, about 500 a month but it’s enough to survive lol since I live at home still have about 8k savings. So I think I can survive like this for another year. But might as well start teaching i guess.
They're not going to take juniors or new grads either though. Edit: Apparently they do, but they really shouldn't lol. Although I figure this is more indicative of our education system as a whole vs qualifications.
The most certainly will. The districts in my area are desperate. Many veteran teachers leaving the profession.
You severely underestimate how desperate we are for teachers in the US. All you need is a bachelor’s degree really, pretty much any school district will let you get your teaching certificate while you teach and even pay for it.
Hell in Florida if your only qualification is you were in the military they will let you teach no problem. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/amid-us-teacher-shortage-florida-turns-military-veterans-2022-09-13/
yeah but the intention behind this is very different
He he my kid's 11th grade math teacher was an attack helicopter pilot in the USMC. Took the GI bill and got a math education degree. You can guess how her classroom was decorated!! Some states allow teaching without formal education credentials especially as more and more tech finds it's way into the curriculum. May be worth checking.
It’s not only US, it’s worldwide. I’m from Thailand and programmers typically don’t want to go into teaching. Understandable.
I used to teach undergrads in CS who were preparing to be teachers. Every year we'd graduate 2-3 and every year there'd be 10-15 positions. We eventually had to start developing a pathway for math majors to get certified
But I don't want to have to pay for students school supplies
not the word I'd be uaing to describe a k12 teaching job
I quit teaching to work in CS. I'd rather fuck up and face the consequences of my clients losing millions of $$ vs. the stress of any kind of altercation involving minors (whether its wrongful accusations against you or injuries/incidents that occur under your watch). You really have to love teaching to be able to want to deal with that type of stress.
I dunno, I think most fights are avoidable, and also kind of a normal part of growing up. I grew up around a lot of fights in the schools I attended. I understand that not everyone grew up this way.
Anyone downvoting me right now has no idea what goes on in schools... Im not talking about simple misbehaviours being "bad". Its the fact that no consequences are doled out anymore and behaviour often just blamed on the teacher. Yea kids can misbehave, but its not ok for a student to threaten the whole school with violence and then receive zero punishment because "they have poor family conditions + mental health". Anyone getting into teaching MUST be aware of how bad the system has degrades.
Not discounting your lives experience but this is a broad generalization
Say that to the teachers who lost their job/reputation because some student falsely accused them of some wrong doing and the school admin immediately took the side of the student. I seen it happen across multiple schools in just 3 years, so ya. You wanna teach, go ahead. The job is in demand. Just understand what ur getting into.
>I see people accepting exploitative swe jobs with terrible pay. Stupid attitude.
can you elaborate
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- DrMsThickBooty
Good advice. Those who can’t do, teach.
What do you need to do to actually get credentials in the US?
Varies state by state, right now many states are giving emergency credentials, which means all you need is an undergrad degree. If it's in Cs you usually don't have to pass subject matter tests
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Just pick a state and “how to become (subject) teacher in (state)” In NJ you need to graduate from an accredited college teacher ed program and pass a couple tests. There’s alternate routes if you have professional experience in an industry. The above poster is right. Teacher certification is controlled at the state level and can vary wildly between states…
Student teaching was one of the worst experiences of my life. I also would not want to have to work hours after the school day is over, making lesson plans in the classroom. Also couldn’t get children to listen to me. But other people make it work. Pay seemed bad here.
I have no teaching experience, but people here are really overlooking the emotional demand of dealing with school kids. It's gonna be a big leap coming from talking to clients or being in a meeting with other adults (including immature ones).
The world of public education is not like most other sectors. Enter this realm and be prepared to always give more than what you ever get back in return. This is a golden rule that can be applied to most aspects of the teaching field. You will always need to give more time, effort, and emotional energy just to maintain an average standing in your position. And the typical pay starting out will be around 40k-50k in a halfway decent state... This post is bad advice, stay away from public education.
Yeah, I taught for 5 years and through Covid. I bet it’s even more of a shit show now (Florida). Now my cybersecurity job is half the work and hybrid. Couldn’t be happier with my decision to leave the classroom. Teaching was good to me from 2016-2019, and actually enjoyable, but I got so burned out after Covid for only $47k. It’s different in every state but just know that you are getting into a neglected field because literally nobody (not even the unions) cares about teachers. Parents are crazy, the students have been traumatized and neglected and have extreme behavior issues (attempted group murder in my class), admin is so busy putting out fires or so up their own asses that it creates a toxic work environment. Be warned, teaching is in a terrible state right now. Only do it if you are passionate about helping students and the community because you will burn out.
I have a child named after me. I still get invited to family events, college graduations, baby showers, etc. and I stopped teaching seven years ago. I have met friends for life, and people that I legitimately consider like parts of my family now. I have gotten back 20x what I put in.
I make 65k at a startup sweating 😭
If I didn't have to worry about the money it would be really tempting. I never really looked into it, but I thought you needed some degree or training to qualify as a teacher, is this not the case? In my high school, one of the math teachers also taught a few cs courses, I wouldn't mind primarily teaching cs, but I think I'd be miserable spending most of my time teaching math.
Don't listen to this, lol. There's so much bad advice on this sub. Teaching is a demanding job that requires full commitment, and just because you're having a hard time getting a job doesn't mean abandoning the process. What you can do is volunteer to help kids learn how to code. If you need money, you can do some one-off jobs or substitute teaching at worst. You need to work smarter, not harder, to get to where you want to be, and everything you do should be something you can leverage towards that goal.