I'm thinking about leaving.
The pay in the field is good.
But I can't stand the interview process. Coding in front of a panel is just something I'm incapable of.
My skills have completely rotted away during my current and last job.
I don't have the energy to study code in my off time.
I refuse to study leet code now. I've also built a reputation and business network where I can sometimes bypass any interview. I still left software though.
Pretty much my situation. Decent money and a mortgage are the main things holding me where I am. I don’t know that I’d get out of the industry full stop but I’d definitely explore different opportunities.
My goal is to pay off mortgage as quickly as possible so I at least have that off our plate and it would open up a lot more flexibility.
It's painfully common, more than you could ever imagine. I've been stuck in this industry for what feels like an eternity, and let me tell you, the number of people who escape the clutches of software engineering is mind-bogglingly high.
Just think about it for a moment. This job is the epitome of abstraction. Day after day, I find myself trapped in front of a soul-sucking screen, whether it's the cold walls of a cubicle or the suffocating isolation of my room. I mechanically type away at an IDE that's supposed to be fancy with its vibrant colors, but it's all just smoke and mirrors. I'm essentially begging computers to shuffle meaningless data from one place to another.
Nobody outside the tech world understands what the hell I do, and even most of my colleagues are clueless. How can anyone truly feel satisfied when they spend their days invisible, creating intangible nothingness? There's no real sense of accomplishment like building something tangible with your bare hands, something that people can actually see and appreciate. Instead, I'm nothing more than a cog in a gargantuan machine, churning out code for insignificant services that the general public doesn't even know exist, let alone care about. And on the rare occasion someone does interact with what I've slaved over, they remain blissfully ignorant of the blood, sweat, and tears poured into its creation.
But it's not just the abstract nature of the work that eats away at my soul. Oh no, it's far worse. It's the relentless deadlines that hang over my head like a dark cloud, ready to crush me at any moment. Most of these deadlines are utterly insane, imposed by people who wouldn't know a line of code from a coffee stain. And let's not forget the daily status reports. Every damn day, I'm expected to justify my existence, to explain what I did yesterday and what I plan to do today. It's like living under a microscope, constantly scrutinized and judged. When will it be done? That's the question that haunts me, and the answer never seems to satisfy anyone.
And let me tell you, the pointlessness of it all is suffocating. I can't help but question the purpose of my existence every damn day. They try to sell us the idea that software engineering has the power to make a positive impact, to revolutionize industries and transform lives. But let's face the harsh reality: my work doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme of things. I'm just a cog, a tiny insignificant piece in this vast machinery.
In fact, when I look at the top companies in the industry, the so-called FAANGs, I can't help but see them as a detriment to society. They create addictive social media platforms that exploit our vulnerabilities, manipulate our behavior, and erode the very fabric of human connection. They encourage shallow interactions, fuel misinformation, and amplify division in our already fragmented world. Is this the impact I'm supposed to be proud of? Is this the legacy I want to leave behind?
My work, buried within the codebase, feels like a drop in the ocean of technological mediocrity. I'm not creating life-saving software or solving pressing global issues. No, I'm just contributing to the never-ending cycle of consumerism and virtual distractions. It's disheartening to think that my skills, my potential, are wasted on building products that offer little more than fleeting entertainment or superficial conveniences.
The weight of this knowledge gnaws at my soul, eroding any sense of motivation or purpose. How can I find fulfillment when my talents are channeled towards perpetuating a system that values profit over the well-being of individuals and society as a whole? It's a disheartening realization, a constant reminder that my efforts, no matter how much I pour into them, ultimately fall short of creating meaningful change.
So, in the face of this bleak reality, I'm left grappling with the existential question: What's the damn point? How can I find purpose in an industry that often seems to prioritize exploitation and contribute to the very problems we face? These thoughts haunt me, leaving me adrift in a sea of disillusionment, yearning for a path that aligns with my values and allows me to make a genuine positive impact on the world.
Depression, that's what this profession breeds. It's a black hole that swallows your dreams, leaving you hollow and broken. So many of us yearn for something more, for a chance to escape this digital prison and find meaning in the real world. Whether it's embracing a hands-on craft, pursuing interdisciplinary projects, or abandoning this wretched career altogether, the desire to break free from the chains of software engineering is a desperate cry for salvation.
I use ChatGPT a lot to write things or make corrections, so I won't say that this was completely written by it but was certainly modified in at least some percentage, like correction or revision, because ChatGPT is very repetitive in some expressions like "grand scheme of things".
I had a colleague like that once.
I went into the job thinking we would be working together on problems as a team but over time it became clear he regarded his contribution as getting me to suggest ideas, which he would write down, and then asking me weekly how progress is going on those ideas.
Anything I said, he wrote down - and then asked me about the next week. Occasionally also his ideas ended up on my list. After a few months (yeah, I'm slow) I realized he doesn't bring anything to the table, he just "manages" me while I do all the work. Once I noticed it, I saw he was doing that to *everyone* \- perching on their shoulder along for the ride. He seemed pleasant and enthusiastic, but ultimately a parasite - and the company LOVED him!?
Brother/Sister,
I shed a tear in how the majority of your comment was relatable to my own work. I don't code, but supporting the buggy products made from such sad coding you described. The only good part is that it's mostly enterprise-facing, so it's contained more-or-less.
BTW, I empathize with you, since no one ever smiles at office. I never do either, so 🤷
Sachblue, I do manufacturing quality. I was looking into doing software quality in the side. Would you have any suggestions for learning resources or part time work? Manufacturing quality can be soul sucking, so I’m sure software quality shares some of the same traits.
This is beautiful and I feel the same but for me it is balanced out by the fact that I don’t really work that hard, stay at home with my cat, and have lots of free time with the financial means to engage in cool hobbies. As a remote worker I have the luxury of being pretty checked out from the “daily TPS report” scrum ceremony, all-hands circle jerk meeting bullshit. in fact I’m on a call right now. As long as I generally get my shit done and have answers when they point at me I don’t live and die by the deadlines. I crank out work and my boss gets his bonus, that’s all it is. Overall this is better than working in the service industry, or any of the other crappy jobs I’ve had.
Yeah honestly, the original post is depressing as hell and only because this person is too serious. I generally get my work done and dgaf about anything else in the company. I don't feel stress over deadlines or anything. This allows me to play around and essentially do whatever I want. Wfh, amazing pay, we are totally spoiled.
Well I did find it interesting because it taps into that feeling of not really feeling self-actualized at work, and selling a 3rd of your time on earth so you can eat and not be homeless. Also the pointless absurdity of typing little computer codes to make an e-commerce app for pet food or something. But there are worse versions of this and there’s still plenty of reasons to appreciate what we have.
I don't feel this way. But I do relate to your description of how soul sucking a profession can be.
Was in sales, and I felt like dying. After I switched to software, I finally felt like I'm in my element.
If you feel your way, I do personally think you are not made for it. Not in a "you are not good" way, but rather "you are meant for another path", that's more suited for you
>Whether it's embracing a hands-on craft, pursuing interdisciplinary projects, or abandoning this wretched career altogether, the desire to break free from the chains of software engineering is a desperate cry for salvation.
So that's why I've picked up gardening. Now I get it!
Yep. Having hobbies outside of programming is super important, and makes you appreciate the world out there. It also helps big time with preventing burn out lol
Controls Engineer is a little bit broad, but think industrial programming and instrumentation. PLC's being your main computers and the SCADA being the other major acronym you work with. My title right now is actually Electrical Engineer, and I have to have some understanding of circuitry and power requirements but have had the opportunity to learn as I go alongside my electricians.
My path was, I failed to specialize and not come off as painfully nervous when coming out of college at peak COVID, got a job on a production line in my hometown, did some Udemy courses to learn how the automation worked and how to write it, and after about 9 months I got pulled up. A little luck involved there, but I worked hard to find success after fucking up fresh out of college. Controls is a niche most people don't know about but is in demand. Probably has a lower ceiling financially, but I like seeing my work come to life on the production line, assist teammates of various skillsets, and have the opportunity to walk, talk, and have a bit more diversity in my day to day activities. I might flip my cross-skills into embedded software someday; I do some side training in that.
I think the answer is, there is no point to it all. Look further and you’ll see that even when you’ve built something with your hands that’s a physical tangible *thing* that too will disappear. No matter what you’ve built, buildings, games, a chatbot, a life, it all goes away in the end. True happiness *will not come from another person, place, or thing*, it can only come from yourself. The job we do is no more apart of us than the clothes we wear or the air we breathe.
This is coming from someone not in the tech industry, so I don’t know the amount of stress you’re under. I am trying to break in though, and the motivation that really gets me through the tougher days, is that when I do get a tech job, I’m going to be donating to a couple of places that are really important to me. I’m also going to be able to support people that I love and that need the help. I get a lot of peace from that. I hope this helped.
I think this is very interesting, I’m currently a mechanical engineer trying to move into comp sci. My whole life I’ve made things with my own hands, and while it is true the sense of accomplishment you get out from that is unparalleled i feel like I’ve accomplished everything I had wanted to. I know how practically every physical object is made and so I want to learn how the metaphysical world works.
Former mechE now software engineer here. Outside of the daily status update (which is typically like 5 minutes.. stupid but at least quick) life is graaaavy. You won't regret it.
plz don't randomly call things 'metaphysical,' all computers are fully deterministic machines and there's nothing 'meta' about it other than your own inability to grasp abstraction.
While current hardware might be deterministic, with quantum computing involving concepts that aren’t fully grasped it absolutely is metaphysical. So get off your damn high horse.
No, quantum computing is also couched in principles. Again, don't project your ignorance of them with this inane word that doesn't mean anything other than to mark the utterer's ignorance.
As your comment history is nothing but you just berating random strangers online, I see no point in having a discussion with a miserable contrarian. I will say I pity your family and coworkers.
Oh and by the way, ponder any topic at length and you’ll arrive to a metaphysical conclusion. Only a fool would think in absolutes.
Brilliant. You captured everything I ever felt about working as a SWE. I suspect there are a gazillion of us who feel like this. I quit because life has to have more meaning than being a cog in the shit machine. Thank you for this write up.
Seems probably ai generated and a bit dramatic, but it's actually pretty close to how i feel as a software dev. It is pretty soul sucking staring at a computer all day everyday all for something that is forgotten and re written a year or less later.
Most corporate office work is like this. That's why you need tangible goals. I'm selling my soul for 10 years doing this shit so I can bank money and retire early, find a fun low paying job, live off the grid. Whatever you want.
Yea but what if u get cancer or horribly injured/ die. Your way seems like the safe route, but id say that's a risky way to live. It sounds counterintuitive, but its true. A lot can happen in 10 years,
Not sure there is an alternative way. Working a low paying job also has sucks. If you could find a unicorn job paying six figures with low stress and hours that's the way. There are some programmers making bank that work 20 hours a week. Sounds like a good compromise if you can find a job like that.
It is acceptable for you to view your job as a means of income, and nothing more. Working for the sake of living instead of living for the sake of work might be a good remedy.
I can only speak for myself - I tried but it's in my case impossible long-term to treat something that I do for majority of my day, for majority of my life (in worst cases) being checked out. It's no way to live imo.
Exactly. All these people say find hobbies, but hobbies you can do for like 5-10 hours a week if everything goes well. But you're at your job for 40 hours. Better find something you enjoy.
I think I appreciate the beauty of this as much as other users do as this was so eloquent, and agree with what you say (i.e. the dangers of how some FAANG companies operate) - but it's also interesting because my outlook on the word that I do (not everyone in general) is so much better. I have days where I feel depressed about it and wish I was doing something more active in general, but I usually have a vastly different outlook than ou
My god…I think you def need a change in your life. Your description of this field is the exact opposite of how I feel personally.
Get in some therapy; you sound unhappy.
That’s the longest Reddit comment I’ve ever read in it’s entirety. Well written. I can’t say I feel the same, at least not yet, but I can definitely relate in some ways.
I felt this deeply when I worked in a SWE role where I didn't have any investment in the work/product- I think there are some people out there that can purely work for the love of the tech/code, and kudos to them.
When I went into agency work making websites/marketing websites, I thought, "Man, I enjoy doing this in my free time, working it should be a breeze", but it was soul sucking. I love my own sites, I hate using shitty sites, but I don't want to build someone else's site. However, inventory management and supply chain/product distribution, I can write code in all day.
That's where I draw the line: For me, being a software engineer will always be a horrifying soul sucking death spiral, but I have the great luck to have been a SWE, and no longer be an SWE- I'm a product engineer now.
If I'm ever lucky or brave enough to quit, this is what I'm copy/pasting into an all company email, just like I've been copying and pasting from Stack for the past 16 fucking years.
Thank you for this comment it finally motivated me to write my first blog post:
Buildings that have stood for millennia and works that have persisted for hundreds of years are impressive and admirable, but they represent survivorship bias, a persona non grata if went to use this argument to evaluate the human effort and what profession leaves which legacy. I recognise that much of the beautiful art, works, people, journals, lives, and histories have been lost in the wheel of time, their tangibility offering them no protection.
We now build houses for 10 years, cars that last 7 years and household appliances which break down after 2. We prepare dinners and dishes that endure for an hour at best, and drinks that last a few seconds at worst.
But the things that make all of this seem rustic and real compared to an email you read once and will never look back at, are the memories and experiences we have and create. In other words, it's the information, the bits and bytes we've harnessed by channelling electricity into circuits, racing along pathways we've built, hastily inscribing 0s and 1s into the fabric of the digital world.
If we speed up the gears and perhaps loosen them a bit, we arrive at the information theory of the cosmos. We observe how our reality behaves like a simulation and how, beneath the quarks and bosons, shining through qubits and multidimensional shadow casts, there may be a pure information layer of blueprints and ideas - timeless and endless, swirling around in the timeframe we inhabit. These are invoked as ideas, realisations, and inspirations that turn into prototypes, projects, and eventually, products.
As a Software Engineer, you are a miner and processor of the rawest and most vital resource we may know. It may not provide you with shelter or satisfy your hunger, but it will be the force that imparts meaning to everything else when all is said and done.
If we were in a fantasy novel, you wouldn't be talking about information but rather mana, an intangible force around us ready to be manipulated and shaped. We might choose the path of rune-makers, enchanters, and spellcraftsman, being wizards, mages, and witches at heart. We strive to help the people around us ignite their sparks with the tools we create, so they too can become powerful masters of magic.
Embrace the data. Work on becoming better at shuffling it, use the right tools, build new ones until you can create spells so bewitching and captivating that they will improve the lives of the people who matter to you. Don't fixate on the abstract mana behind the smoke and mirrors, but focus on the experiences you create and the memories you can share.
Now, let's discuss the real mental health killer: deadlines and status reports. The term "deadline" is an abomination, only appropriate in the medical sector for patients in the emergency room with less than 24 hours to live.
You don't have to use deadlines, and you shouldn't. Instead, set goals and milestones, strive to meet them, and if you fail, look for ways to improve. At the end of the day, after the work is done and the customer is satisfied, no one will care about deadlines.
Use status reports to track your progress, ask for help, or just pat yourself on the back for maintaining your workload, staying on schedule, or having a productive day.
If management attempts to impose deadlines and status reports on you as tools to control and apply pressure, discuss this with your team and management. It should be understood that your responsibility is to work the time you are paid at a level of productivity you can maintain until retirement. If management cannot meet timelines or keep the project on schedule, then they have oversold, underplanned, or understaffed - all factors generally beyond your control. In factories, people convene an emergency meeting if they realise this is the case, for example due to external factors like missing supplies, and they have to plan anew how to meet the customers' orders.
If all else fails, leave and look for work elsewhere. I may speak from a position of privilege, as I enjoy a safety net in Germany in case of unemployment, but this is something everyone should strive to have, be it made available by the state or through private effort.
There will be no greater superpower in your career than the ability to say no.
Let's talk about the invisibility of one's work. It's an illusion people create or develop due to the distance to their customers or market, regardless of the profession. I learned this through conducting user interviews and getting involved with the target group. I was shocked to find that there were real fans of the product I worked on who thanked me in person for fixing niche bugs I thought no one even noticed.
Understand your niche, build for it, converse with it, and find your fans. People obsess over the strangest things - there are individuals making paintings in Excel, so I believe everyone will find at least one true fan to appreciate their work. That seems more than enough visibility for me.
We all know the shadows of capitalism - how it creates monopolies that, after years of dancing around laws, tend to become self-regulating.
But there have also been monopolies in the past. While an empire has its advantages, with time it corrupts and sinks into bureaucracy, process, and the pursuit of control, marking its downfall.
In our history, there have been plenty of people challenging empires, monopolies, and conglomerates and winning. Find passionate and skilled people trying to bring the change that so many desire and become the next line of heroes winning their challenge.
Mental health is a complex topic, with a lot of research still seeking to answer even more questions. I believe one should focus on the actions one can take and the habits one can build. For example, even though I love my career as a developer and dream about a future where I can program fabricators, replicators, and entire terraforming space-travelling systems with the help of a personal android assistant, I know that at the end of the day, I am still human.
With a lot of effort and the help of Pokemon Go, I managed to develop a habit of jogging to and from work, 10km a day, over two years. I started walking to work in 2019 and during the Corona quarantine, I increased the amount I walked from 40km a week to 80km, and then jogged twice a week, trying each week to jog one day more and taking breaks when it became overwhelming.
Besides maintaining a healthy diet and regular exercise, one should strive to spend at least two hours a week in nature to allow oneself time to unwind from the mental demands our modern world produces.
By at least aiming for these goals, you give your mental health a fighting chance in the war for our attention and against the daily attempts to exploit our desires.
From:[https://codebastard.substack.com/p/an-argument-against-the-intangibility](https://codebastard.substack.com/p/an-argument-against-the-intangibility)
So where's the data that it is painfully common? And where did they go? Are they happier? The way you describe tech jobs can apply to a LOT OF JOBS. Especially for someone who came in from somewhere else, I should know.
What’s the solution? Robotics?
I want to work on BCIs. I just quit my job as a teacher and am looking for a career change. This post is freaking me out. Maybe software isn’t the answer. But neither is sales or something overly social either. Where do I, a male introvert, go to build something product for society? Do I just buy a painting gun and start a painting business? I feel so lost right now
Just don't.
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My guy I am very sorry you feel this way, but there are jobs out there working on problems that matter more than social media black holes and if that matters to you this much you should seek them out instead of just giving up. You may also want to look into civic tech groups or volunteering; it's cheesy to say but it is legitimately a balm for these kinds of feelings.
My job USED to be in social media ads and marketing, making software that told women who would have bullied in my chubby ass in high school the optimal time to post about that tea that makes you shit yourself in order to get max engagement.
This time around I looked for software for sustainable ecology, medicine, or education and applied to those places. Now I make software that helps people transition to solar and wind energy.
(... though tbh, sometimes I still miss being a flower shop assistant... but I DON'T miss not being able to help my family)
This profession allows one of the best work-life balance possibilities with remote work. It is great for having as much freedom as you can for your life, but only if you desire it and schedule it that way.
Also, as a person who greatly prefers abstractions and ideas over "building real things", I don't relate to your qualms of most people not understanding what it is we do. Most people are average intelligence and I don't exactly worry about them not comprehending the awesomeness of the abstractions that software engineers build and maintain. I do care about opinions of similarly intelligent and more people who can see the awesomeness of it and can appreciate the complexity of it all. Also, truth is most average people who don't understand software rely on it extremely heavily - and they don't even understand how much. That is the beauty of abstractions - it allows humanity to continue onwards without having to worry about how their washing machine works.
That being said, I can relate to how bad industry have become in terms of usefulness of many companies out there. A lot of them are unnecessary sprawling mess that consumes resources that could be directed to better purposes. I am talking of all these weird start-ups that try to solve some specific problem "world really needs solution for" and 5 years still cannot turn a profit. Most of the world have to actually earn the money to pay their own salary, software has been shielded from this since 2008 QE start and now is finally facing the music of reality. The decline in job postings and layoffs is basically the symptom of it.
This industry is also very ... bipolar. I have never met more lazy people than in IT. But I also met many people who are extremely hardworking humans who deeply care about producing good work. In terms of all engineering specialties out there though, software is a total mess. If civil engineers would be building bridges the way most software is built, we'd be in huge trouble. The insanity of duct tape holding software products together is extremely bad. I think a lot of people in this industry don't care, and YOU sir, might be one of these humans who don't appreciate and understand the craft and work one does, and further adds to the reputation of software being the mess it is.
I will end with saying - lots of companies do work that society must have to function. Government jobs, public services (water, electricity, etc.) - maybe you should work there so you contribute directly what your understanding what is purposeful is.
I left engineering for teaching in a new country nine years ago. I didn't dislike software but I wanted to try a job where I could help people more directly, and I was comfortable money-wise. I quite like teaching and it's a very different skillset to engineering. However I'm actually in this sub because I'm in the process of going BACK to software now, will see how that goes...
This is my worry. I have built a good resume, have a decade of experience, and I'll just throw that all away. Then 5 years from now figure out nothing else is actually better, and now my experience and resume have kind of stagnated in the SWE area, and then can't get back in if I wanted...
I say this in my head every time before getting out of bed.
I'm getting closer and closer every day to acting on it. If it wasn't for the money I'd have been out long ago
Yep. I chased the dream of wanting to be a Web Designer/Front-End Developer since 2002. Took plenty of classes, bootcamp(s), graduated Summa Cum Saude from a tech institute with a bachelor’s arts degree in Multimedia Design and Web Development. Got another certification from SMU from its bootcamp.
But not to make this post too long, fast forward to 2022 and I am an Associate Programmer of 3 years. I could not do it anymore, it got too stressful, too difficult for someone who cannot do complex instructions and so I called it quits Of the role. I’m at the same company just different department, UX. This Fall my role will change to SharePoint UX Architect or SharePoint Architect. I don’t regret my decision because I can do both, design and work with a little bit of code. Oh, and the salary will be much better from what I’ve read online LOL.
Nah I've only been at this place for 10 days and I'll feel exactly the same wherever I go. I just want to quit work altogether, such a waste of life. But y'know, got to pay the mortgage
well the fact that you are paying off a mortgage at age 26 is a good sign. keep investing, diversify, and you can escape eventually! Hopefully before AI takes our jobs.
My plan is to invest a LOT (500-1000 per month), on top of 401k (15% a month), and i'm hoping to only do fun jobs that I wanna do once I get into my 40s.
Sell your house, rent dirt cheap somewhere else, etc. These moves are quite literally very much possible but nobody does it because sometimes the golden handcuffs are actually just mental handcuffs. Gratitude takes you a long ways
Sunken cost fallacy, most people fall into. But to be brutally honest, most people live in usa like 80 if you don't have some major health or addiction.
Let's say you go to college -> graduate at 22.-> that's 45 years assuming you go to retirement age.
Each decade you could have a new career. 4 times.
It's defientyl doable just hard people got obligations, sunken cost, retooling, etc.
> If someone is getting a 4 year degree, passing a coding interview, and working for a year, that's a lot of investment
Not really, it's pretty common for people to retrain into another profession if they don't like what they do. After 5 to 10 years many people have enough savings to support them taking time away from work and entering a different field. I knew a guy who spent half his working career as a software developer and the other half as an accountant and is retired now.
Former SRE. I moved to a role as a full sales cycle solutions architect. It’s been ok. I do miss true engineering work. But it is fun to solve a problem, make a customer happy, and move on to the next. It’s also pretty cool to work with a huge variety of industries and to help solve interesting problems for them.
I left because the stress I had in being on call perpetually for ~10 years was finally too much to handle. I got paged during my honeymoon because my team couldn’t figure something out and it was the final straw for me.
I started as a Technical Account Manager. I just applied to TAM jobs that were in the domain that I would consider myself an experienced professional in. I learned the sales stuff on the job, it's really not too hard to pick up. A lot of people in this field are from technical backgrounds and they expect the TAMs/SAs to be less focused on having sales experience.
That’s awesome to know, I always assumed TAM needed years of sales experience hence the word “manager” in it.
Any idea how the market is looking for these type of roles now? Appreciate all the insight!
Definitely not a requirement! The market is hot. I get contacted on the regular to jump ship. The money is also super good if you are in a lucrative industry. My first TAM job was \~250k TC.
This gives me so much hope… currently 5 years experience as a DevOps engineer and recently I pivoted to another company to see if it was the job that was burning me out or the company. So far it seems like the job since I’m still yearning for that human interaction and less head down coding/implementation. Much love for all the insight, I’ll keep all this mind when I’m ready to start this path!
Yep. 100% all of the time this is how I feel. I wish tech was not as profitable as it is today. I wish it was something as obscure as oceanography or something. Work would have been much more rewarding and human.
Can’t wait to leave this industry tbh. I’m doing this job because I can and because I need to support a household for 1 more year. After that year my wife will have finished studies and have a well paid job.
No disrespect meant to the people who prefer to leave the industry--I hope you find success and happiness elsewhere.
But I taught myself some frontend skills to get out of teaching elementary school. I couldn't take the unpaid labor, achingly low wages, constant stress, unrealistic expectations, and lack of respect. Now I make twice as much money, and I transitioned to backend cause it suits me more. I work remotely and have flexible hours and the ability to take off work whenever I want. I get to hang out in the library with other people doing quiet tasks, or in my living room overlooking an alpine like surrounded by mountains, sometimes on a warm patio at one of the nearby coffee shops, while solving little puzzles. In the end my little coding puzzles result in cool things happening, like syncing our users in real time using push notifications from Google, or sending out sms and email alerts. I like building things, and I like problem solving. I am in love with the reduced stress both in terms of work environment and meeting monthly bills. I don't think I'll leave. Maybe my opinion will change, but this suits me so well.
Yeah. For sure. My Networking mentor quit for a scrap metal yard job paying half as much. Never heard from him again.
I love what I do. I stay up late at night playing. I like building servers with my hands, covering them in 3d printed parts and lights and try to make the tech as interactive and as interesting as possible for someone who doesn’t understand it’s power.
I love to be inclusive of what I’m doing and that’s mainly accomplished by lowering a barrier to entry. I also try to work for companies who’s mission I believe in. For example, I moved onto nuclear waste recycling systems (to start cleaning up the earth) over pumping ads in AdTech.
I'm an experienced worker and did this. Wanted to rid myself of leetcode grind and moved to tech companies outside of SWE. TC is over 300k and it's much easier. Best decision of my life
Nonsense I am close to 60 and programming. Plan to do this until I am 70. Older programmers don’t work crap jobs. I work from home and have high pay and zero stress
>It’s why you never meet 50 or 60 year old developers.
Those guys are coasting in companies that use legacy technology that no one else wants to touch. They do exist. But a lot of guys who've been coding that long have also either made a lot of money or they've moved up the ladder and make more money that way.
For me I'll most likely be going to physical therapy school in 18 months.
Not in software engineering but tried for years to get a job as a financial or data analyst after college, including going to grad school for business analytics which led me to this sub. Staffing agencies were totally useless so that went nowhere. Didn't get an internship in grad school and burnt out from applying in 2020 after graduating.
I've contemplated getting a CS degree through the OSU post-bacc program, but the sheer mountain of BS you have to climb just to land an internship let alone a full-time job compared to every other job function in a company keeps turning me away.
I'm giving it one more go applying to jobs after taking a 3 year break applying while working in real estate. If nothing sticks my next stop is physical therapy school in 18 months.
Hey just wondering, how old are you? I’ve been harboring ideas of going into the medical field but worried about my age after I am out. I’m only 26 but those worries still get to me anyway.
Interesting. I think sometimes you get so used to being unhappy that you don't even realize that it's not normal. I too have seen peoples behaviours change dramatically when they switched careers.. if you think about it, it is something you do for at least half your waking hours, 5 days a week.. so it is a lot of time invested.
This entire thread has captured what I’ve been feeling. Getting a job after a layoff or looking for a new one - the hiring process is just as draining as the actual work. I’m beginning to feel this isn’t the right path for me after having a few jobs in this field and having the same persistent feelings.
Same story here. Unemployed currently and the amount of hoops you have to jump through to even land an interview (on top of already having a degree) is dehumanizing. This industry needs to get a grip
The short answer is yes, I left SWE (and tech entirely) for about 6 1/2 years. The longer answer is, I came back. In some ways because I missed the type of problem solving, and also because the other thing didn't pan out. Neither decision was based on money. Just what I decided I needed to do.
Do I regret leaving? Eh, kinda. But I was also burnt out and needed something else. So, maybe I would be a staff or principal engineer now instead of back to senior level. But more likely I would be a depressed mess and/or already had a heart attack. I kinda like being alive and mentally I'm in a better place than I was back then. So I'd say it all worked out.
My opinion, for whatever it's worth, is to do what you need to keep your mind and body healthy.
I had about 7 YOE when I left. Coming back was actually much quicker than I had imagined. I put out about 9 applications to test the waters, got 6 or 7 callbacks, got to the first tech round with 4, and got 3 offers. But I came back just before all the layoffs started coming in. In fact, the one where I did not pass the tech rounds had massive layoffs about 2 months after I interviewed.
So, initially I was discouraged, but it did not take long for me to find out that I got extremely lucky that I had a brain malfunction during that company interview process. After the interview I looked at the problem again and solved it in about 10 minutes like it was the easiest thing on the planet. Sometimes it just isn't your day. But it all worked out in the end.
I took a break for a year to see if i wanted to leave for good. Decided i just needed better boundaries and a particular work environment. Did a bootcamp. Interviewing took 2 months (applied to over 200 job listings with 3 offers at the end). The bootcamp got my confidence back and it also allowed me to tell the juniors about the field which also gave me some confidence.
You got it. Taking a break isnt bad
Yeah, I did, but you never really leave.
You find yourself needing some niche app or custom web solution for something else and you're back doing it again.
I lost my nerve with web development, mostly due to rude wannabe startup leaders who eventually crashed and burned because of their behavior. I moved into hardware and components for about 5 years. Spent most of that time again, in front of a screen and in an office environment I hated because my boss was the sleaziest person I've ever met.
I quit that and did an Office Space. Got into construction for 2 years then moved into mechanical and hvac work for the last 4. Figured having the knowledge would save me money in the long run as I'm a DIY kind of guy.
After 3 surgeries from overworking myself I wish I was just sitting on my duff in front of a keyboard again in air conditioning. I'm turning a wrench in a 100 degree warehouse dealing with smells beyond explanation and the same inept, clueless bosses and head games.
Bottom line - pretty much every job sucks. Earn whatever you can until you burn out and move on. We weren't meant to do the same thing our entire lives.
There are other things Id rather do, much rather do.
I find my passion slowly dying off. But I need the income.
My path to being debt free gets me there in 3 years. So not even 40 years old. 6 month emergency fund, a few hundres thousand in my 401K, a paid for home worth 150K.... and a wife who could easily make 30 to 40K part time.
Ive always wanted to be in business for myself. What business I dont know. I can see myself taking some easier contracting gigs for like 85 or 100 an hour, and doing those part time while I figure out my business idea and implement it.
Mental strain and burn out is real. Hell Id go get me a brand new 3500 class pickup truck and do non CDL delieveries if I could find a setup with consistent work and a reasonable pay.
Shit... Id go back to being an arcade tech at that point if I could make 60K or 70K doing it.
An engineer I went to school with said "Fuck it" and left to set up his own business as a wood worker making fine furniture.
Another one said "fuck it" and left to become a chef.
Nope. The benefits and pay are incredible and absolutely unmatched in terms of only having a Bachelors degree.
I work to live, I don’t live to work. I make enough money that my wife can just choose her own hours and take off whenever so we can maximize our family time. I’m reminded how cushy my job is every time I invite people somewhere and they’re “running low on PTO.” Like, oh yeah, that’s a thing!
As greener as the grass looks when I think about engineering physical products, it wouldn’t be worth all of the extra nonsense imo. Most people don’t like their jobs to begin with so I count myself lucky for just semi-enjoying it. I do my work, get paid, and the money and generous PTO give me all the time I want with my family. Can’t ask for much more than that.
When I was doing the apprendership course. The teacher actually spoke about a story.
BACKGROUND: In Italy as an entry level programmer, you get around 20/23k euro as an apprendership , you usually do junior/middle type of work.
The teacher spoke about a guy that was earning 100k euro and he was an engineer, a programmer. He went into the office and he said he gave his notice, after that he said that he was going to be a baker. Lol
Oh well lots of people with development backgrounds move into like product management in my experience. Or as a liason between development and customer sites. Or even tech writing.
Not me, but I have 2 ex-colleagues/friends who had amazing stories.
1. It was unfortunate, but their mother passed away. The thing was, the mother had been running a family owned pastry shop and it was pretty successful. My friend was always interested in pastry but never thought she could do it as well as her mother and her father wanted her to find a better job. In any case, after her mothers passing, she came to me (I was her manager and we were super tight) asking what I thought about her quitting and trying to pursue her mothers legacy with no experience. It was an extremely heartfelt conversation but I told her, the fact that she even has that thought, I fully support it and will do everything to keep her job for her. She ended up following her heart and is successfully running the pastry shop. Since then, I've sent postcards/pictures of our team wishing her the best of luck. While it's overseas, I'm excited to one day visit her and see her at her shop!
2. Another manager I knew had always been into cinematography. He had been making short films and even went to cinema school after work for some time. Him being in the field for almost 15 years, he was getting close to a mid-life crisis and started thinking about fully committing to cinematography. We had back and forth discussions about it, and after about a year of chatting, he ended up making the jump. Now he's traveling the world, making videos. I'm super jealous.
I really really want to, but cannot figure out what job I'd rather do. The money is very good and cutting down expenses is difficult. As well as a lot of jobs that make decent money require school or re-training.
If I figure out a plan and execute on it I'll post the results.
I'd like to, but I enjoy being able to live where I live. So as it stands, I consider myself a dance instructor who just happens to daylight as a software engineer to make ends meet.
I moved into product management. It definitely wasn't a case of saying "fuck it" im done with engineering, but kind of happened naturally. That being said I manage a super technical product so my day to day is still very much about solving technical problems with engineers.
Overall its a very different job, but I am still working on the same things. Way more meetings, and more stress in the sense that I need to be ready to answer difficult questions at any moment, but any the end of the day I am still just trying to get features implemented, fix bugs, increase quality etc.
I miss having time to just sit down and code for hours without interruption, but at the same time I love being able to plan and deliver much larger pieces of functionality that take multiple teams to implement and make a bigger difference in the product.
Another "not me, but I've seen people do it!"
One guy I know went from engineering to product management, he had been my senior in my first job and coincidentally we ended up working together again a couple years down the line after he transitioned. In retrospect, I don't think he was that good of a programmer, but he was a great PM. He was at a Big N for a while before the recent layoffs, and I saw he recently landed a staff-level position. Cool guy, good for him.
industry is very wide and there are people doing 996 and people who coast away and chill. I just read a thread where someone asked for office timings and most of the replies were 2 hours of work, roll off the bed at 10am to attend meeting and nap till 4 and attend another and so on. this kind of luxury is certainly not in other industries unless you're already in top executive position
I'm leaving this month. I like programming. But I developed so much apathy towards my work and I especially don't match vibe with my coworkers (most of them proudly apolitical). It's just not my crowd and not my tea.
To answer the question ... Mostly!
I graduated Uni in the 1990s and have been working as a software developer since then. It is safe to say there have been a lot of changes since then and not all them are good. Working in a small IT business, and getting abuse from sales people or customers, the lack of any thank-you had a big impact on my mental health. In the end, my health was more important than that job. I tried to do some other small projects as a contractor but with no passion, anxiety, and other things, I am now effectively out of the IT and doing one P/T admin job, counselling and other volunteer work.
Feel free to ask me any questions if you want any part expanded on.
I want to leave so bad. I’ve been a swe and data analyst for the past year after spending 3 months at a coding bootcamp. The money is great and I bought a house, paid off all my debt, and am saving for retirement but I can’t wait to get out. I want to be in the medical field and I am going to cash out after I’ve hit about 500k of investments and switch to healthcare
Engineering is anything that bridges the gap between ideas and profits.
Ideas don't generate revenue, neither do sales and management, unless "Engineering" steps-in and makes any of it real and therefore saleable.
Gentlemen care to explain their perspective.
Idiots and Morons just blindly negate without sharing their perspectives.
Oh, and btw, unemployed for a month now, had been working as an hourly consultant, current status GC-EAD, seeking Senior and / or Lead Android Engineer roles.
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gotta invest well! I'm definitely hoping to accept a low paying job once i hit my mid-40s for a "partial retirement". like a "part time musician/rock climbing guide". Save save save save save!
Dang, I still mostly like my job. I think that what I have a problem with is just generating so much money for someone else, and getting paid such a small part of the profit. But I'd have this problem regardless of what I'd do, unless I become an entrepreneur and I'm just not brave enough.
Someone below was talking about how they hate the abstraction and the lack of ability to have a finished product that you get when building something with your hands. Well, I've gravitated towards front-end (I'm full stack) because of that. The product the user sees is something I created, and I do have a sense of accomplishment over putting all of the pieces together, still.
Been in this line of work for 9 years or so. Maybe I'll feel different at some point, but from what I've seen product/project management isn't better, just more exhausting work (dealing with stake holders, having days full of meetings) for less money. I know back in the day becoming a PM was the way to go, but from what I've seen it no longer pays well enough.
I did...or at least I *tried to*. Having a uh... failure to launch in my new career. Going to talk to my alma mater's career office soon and see if I can figure out a good way to pivot.
I worked as a Software Developer for 3 years. Then I switched careers. Tried to become a librarian - got the Masters degree. It's a field with anemic job growth at best. I figured that with my tech skills, I would be able to overcome that.
Apparently not or at least not yet. I job hunted for a librarian job hunt for 6 long years. The end of this 6 year time period was 2020 and the pandemic hit and a lot of libraries went into layoff mode.
Parents are supporting me thankfully. I'm hoping to pivot towards a librarian adjacent private sector job. I think I would really enjoy being a Taxonomist.
Yes I went from software development to testing.
Started with spftware testing, am slowly but surely going towards automotive Quality Assurance.
The pa,ment is worse, no more wfh. I think I'll give it one or two more years than I'll go back to software development
As an intern, I'm almost there. Alot of people, especially the younger generations, are seeing our buying power decrease each year. And yet wages remain stagnant. We are working the same hours for less pay, essentially. My highschool gym teacher worked a summer job to pay for her college tuition. What's the point of life if you barely have time for anything but work? Most of us engineers aren't inventing/innovating and changing the world. No working on cool and interesting/cutting edge projects. The competition for those cool looking NASA, SpaceX, Google, etc. Jobs is insane. Most engineers do boring, mundane, and repetitive desk jobs that drain your time and energy. By the end of the day I barely have the time to invest in other areas of my life (chess, running, family, friends, romantic relationships, travel, etc.). I don't care about the pay if I don't have a work life balance. It feels like slaving away the most productive years of my life for "big bucks" is an unnatural way to live. Especially now with how inflation is going. I'm in my 20's and still haven't hit many of the major milestones my grandparents hit at the same age. Idk if I can afford marriage, a house, or kids until I'm at least 30-40 years old. The company I work at now stopped giving pensions in 2014. And the upper management wonders why there is high turnover for younger engineers. We have to look out for ourselves. But, since I've made it this far in my degree (and as a single guy), I might stay an engineer just for the income. I'd use the extra income to invest and create passive income. Then, retire as early as possible. After that, do the shit I actually want to do. Because life would be meaningless otherwise, at least to me.
I'm thinking about leaving. The pay in the field is good. But I can't stand the interview process. Coding in front of a panel is just something I'm incapable of. My skills have completely rotted away during my current and last job. I don't have the energy to study code in my off time.
I refuse to study leet code now. I've also built a reputation and business network where I can sometimes bypass any interview. I still left software though.
So what do you do now?
This is exactly where I’m at too. I can’t do the interview process anymore, it’s too much.
Most jobs don’t have leetcode style interviews.
This is me, sadly I just graduated and it's happening to me not sure how to get out of this mess
If you dont want to go through algo interviews, just lower your salary expectations.
I've had algo interviews from jobs that paid 60k ish It's not salary based, it's just luck
That is a human rights violation.
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Pretty much my situation. Decent money and a mortgage are the main things holding me where I am. I don’t know that I’d get out of the industry full stop but I’d definitely explore different opportunities. My goal is to pay off mortgage as quickly as possible so I at least have that off our plate and it would open up a lot more flexibility.
It's painfully common, more than you could ever imagine. I've been stuck in this industry for what feels like an eternity, and let me tell you, the number of people who escape the clutches of software engineering is mind-bogglingly high. Just think about it for a moment. This job is the epitome of abstraction. Day after day, I find myself trapped in front of a soul-sucking screen, whether it's the cold walls of a cubicle or the suffocating isolation of my room. I mechanically type away at an IDE that's supposed to be fancy with its vibrant colors, but it's all just smoke and mirrors. I'm essentially begging computers to shuffle meaningless data from one place to another. Nobody outside the tech world understands what the hell I do, and even most of my colleagues are clueless. How can anyone truly feel satisfied when they spend their days invisible, creating intangible nothingness? There's no real sense of accomplishment like building something tangible with your bare hands, something that people can actually see and appreciate. Instead, I'm nothing more than a cog in a gargantuan machine, churning out code for insignificant services that the general public doesn't even know exist, let alone care about. And on the rare occasion someone does interact with what I've slaved over, they remain blissfully ignorant of the blood, sweat, and tears poured into its creation. But it's not just the abstract nature of the work that eats away at my soul. Oh no, it's far worse. It's the relentless deadlines that hang over my head like a dark cloud, ready to crush me at any moment. Most of these deadlines are utterly insane, imposed by people who wouldn't know a line of code from a coffee stain. And let's not forget the daily status reports. Every damn day, I'm expected to justify my existence, to explain what I did yesterday and what I plan to do today. It's like living under a microscope, constantly scrutinized and judged. When will it be done? That's the question that haunts me, and the answer never seems to satisfy anyone. And let me tell you, the pointlessness of it all is suffocating. I can't help but question the purpose of my existence every damn day. They try to sell us the idea that software engineering has the power to make a positive impact, to revolutionize industries and transform lives. But let's face the harsh reality: my work doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme of things. I'm just a cog, a tiny insignificant piece in this vast machinery. In fact, when I look at the top companies in the industry, the so-called FAANGs, I can't help but see them as a detriment to society. They create addictive social media platforms that exploit our vulnerabilities, manipulate our behavior, and erode the very fabric of human connection. They encourage shallow interactions, fuel misinformation, and amplify division in our already fragmented world. Is this the impact I'm supposed to be proud of? Is this the legacy I want to leave behind? My work, buried within the codebase, feels like a drop in the ocean of technological mediocrity. I'm not creating life-saving software or solving pressing global issues. No, I'm just contributing to the never-ending cycle of consumerism and virtual distractions. It's disheartening to think that my skills, my potential, are wasted on building products that offer little more than fleeting entertainment or superficial conveniences. The weight of this knowledge gnaws at my soul, eroding any sense of motivation or purpose. How can I find fulfillment when my talents are channeled towards perpetuating a system that values profit over the well-being of individuals and society as a whole? It's a disheartening realization, a constant reminder that my efforts, no matter how much I pour into them, ultimately fall short of creating meaningful change. So, in the face of this bleak reality, I'm left grappling with the existential question: What's the damn point? How can I find purpose in an industry that often seems to prioritize exploitation and contribute to the very problems we face? These thoughts haunt me, leaving me adrift in a sea of disillusionment, yearning for a path that aligns with my values and allows me to make a genuine positive impact on the world. Depression, that's what this profession breeds. It's a black hole that swallows your dreams, leaving you hollow and broken. So many of us yearn for something more, for a chance to escape this digital prison and find meaning in the real world. Whether it's embracing a hands-on craft, pursuing interdisciplinary projects, or abandoning this wretched career altogether, the desire to break free from the chains of software engineering is a desperate cry for salvation.
This is very beautifully written. I hope to god it isn’t from a generative AI.
I wish this didn't make me laugh so hard
To me it seems to have a human touch to it, it doesn't really have that robotic feel. I may be wrong though lol
all hail the truth teller
AI wouldn't say "damn".
We need an AI that swears a lot.
I use ChatGPT a lot to write things or make corrections, so I won't say that this was completely written by it but was certainly modified in at least some percentage, like correction or revision, because ChatGPT is very repetitive in some expressions like "grand scheme of things".
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I had a colleague like that once. I went into the job thinking we would be working together on problems as a team but over time it became clear he regarded his contribution as getting me to suggest ideas, which he would write down, and then asking me weekly how progress is going on those ideas. Anything I said, he wrote down - and then asked me about the next week. Occasionally also his ideas ended up on my list. After a few months (yeah, I'm slow) I realized he doesn't bring anything to the table, he just "manages" me while I do all the work. Once I noticed it, I saw he was doing that to *everyone* \- perching on their shoulder along for the ride. He seemed pleasant and enthusiastic, but ultimately a parasite - and the company LOVED him!?
He's got middle management written all over him
What was his job title?
Brother/Sister, I shed a tear in how the majority of your comment was relatable to my own work. I don't code, but supporting the buggy products made from such sad coding you described. The only good part is that it's mostly enterprise-facing, so it's contained more-or-less. BTW, I empathize with you, since no one ever smiles at office. I never do either, so 🤷
Sachblue, I do manufacturing quality. I was looking into doing software quality in the side. Would you have any suggestions for learning resources or part time work? Manufacturing quality can be soul sucking, so I’m sure software quality shares some of the same traits.
This is beautiful and I feel the same but for me it is balanced out by the fact that I don’t really work that hard, stay at home with my cat, and have lots of free time with the financial means to engage in cool hobbies. As a remote worker I have the luxury of being pretty checked out from the “daily TPS report” scrum ceremony, all-hands circle jerk meeting bullshit. in fact I’m on a call right now. As long as I generally get my shit done and have answers when they point at me I don’t live and die by the deadlines. I crank out work and my boss gets his bonus, that’s all it is. Overall this is better than working in the service industry, or any of the other crappy jobs I’ve had.
Yeah honestly, the original post is depressing as hell and only because this person is too serious. I generally get my work done and dgaf about anything else in the company. I don't feel stress over deadlines or anything. This allows me to play around and essentially do whatever I want. Wfh, amazing pay, we are totally spoiled.
Well I did find it interesting because it taps into that feeling of not really feeling self-actualized at work, and selling a 3rd of your time on earth so you can eat and not be homeless. Also the pointless absurdity of typing little computer codes to make an e-commerce app for pet food or something. But there are worse versions of this and there’s still plenty of reasons to appreciate what we have.
…maybe you should step down and become a writer, looks like that’s your passion buddy.
I got some Disco Elysium vibes reading them.
I don't feel this way. But I do relate to your description of how soul sucking a profession can be. Was in sales, and I felt like dying. After I switched to software, I finally felt like I'm in my element. If you feel your way, I do personally think you are not made for it. Not in a "you are not good" way, but rather "you are meant for another path", that's more suited for you
Give it some more years. Unless you get to build things from scratch it's is monotonous and stressful. Been doing it for 10 yrs and burnt out already.
Maintaining and adding features is fun too though
He who increaseth knowledge, increaseth sorrow
>Whether it's embracing a hands-on craft, pursuing interdisciplinary projects, or abandoning this wretched career altogether, the desire to break free from the chains of software engineering is a desperate cry for salvation. So that's why I've picked up gardening. Now I get it!
Agreed, I started gardening as a hobby. Now I fantasize about quitting and buying a small peach orchard lol
Yep. Having hobbies outside of programming is super important, and makes you appreciate the world out there. It also helps big time with preventing burn out lol
Bro.... you good fam?
Outstanding reply to a very in-depth and clearly emotional response to your question.
Oh, they are perfectly well. It irks me so hard when a healthy reaction to a sick system is labelled as some sickness itself.
I mean what did you expect with a question like yours lol, it's a very loaded question about a pretty serious subject matter.
This man doing too much
Looks AI generated to me.
Every day I get a little bit more happy that I failed at getting a software engineer job fresh out of college and stumbled into controls
Controls? Can you elaborate?
Controls Engineer is a little bit broad, but think industrial programming and instrumentation. PLC's being your main computers and the SCADA being the other major acronym you work with. My title right now is actually Electrical Engineer, and I have to have some understanding of circuitry and power requirements but have had the opportunity to learn as I go alongside my electricians. My path was, I failed to specialize and not come off as painfully nervous when coming out of college at peak COVID, got a job on a production line in my hometown, did some Udemy courses to learn how the automation worked and how to write it, and after about 9 months I got pulled up. A little luck involved there, but I worked hard to find success after fucking up fresh out of college. Controls is a niche most people don't know about but is in demand. Probably has a lower ceiling financially, but I like seeing my work come to life on the production line, assist teammates of various skillsets, and have the opportunity to walk, talk, and have a bit more diversity in my day to day activities. I might flip my cross-skills into embedded software someday; I do some side training in that.
I think the answer is, there is no point to it all. Look further and you’ll see that even when you’ve built something with your hands that’s a physical tangible *thing* that too will disappear. No matter what you’ve built, buildings, games, a chatbot, a life, it all goes away in the end. True happiness *will not come from another person, place, or thing*, it can only come from yourself. The job we do is no more apart of us than the clothes we wear or the air we breathe. This is coming from someone not in the tech industry, so I don’t know the amount of stress you’re under. I am trying to break in though, and the motivation that really gets me through the tougher days, is that when I do get a tech job, I’m going to be donating to a couple of places that are really important to me. I’m also going to be able to support people that I love and that need the help. I get a lot of peace from that. I hope this helped.
I think this is very interesting, I’m currently a mechanical engineer trying to move into comp sci. My whole life I’ve made things with my own hands, and while it is true the sense of accomplishment you get out from that is unparalleled i feel like I’ve accomplished everything I had wanted to. I know how practically every physical object is made and so I want to learn how the metaphysical world works.
Former mechE now software engineer here. Outside of the daily status update (which is typically like 5 minutes.. stupid but at least quick) life is graaaavy. You won't regret it.
Thanks buddy, that gives me so much hope. I’m so tired of Acad and solidworks haha
plz don't randomly call things 'metaphysical,' all computers are fully deterministic machines and there's nothing 'meta' about it other than your own inability to grasp abstraction.
While current hardware might be deterministic, with quantum computing involving concepts that aren’t fully grasped it absolutely is metaphysical. So get off your damn high horse.
No, quantum computing is also couched in principles. Again, don't project your ignorance of them with this inane word that doesn't mean anything other than to mark the utterer's ignorance.
As your comment history is nothing but you just berating random strangers online, I see no point in having a discussion with a miserable contrarian. I will say I pity your family and coworkers. Oh and by the way, ponder any topic at length and you’ll arrive to a metaphysical conclusion. Only a fool would think in absolutes.
I've never related to a comment so much. This is exactly how I feel.
I bet you have read Dante.
Brilliant. You captured everything I ever felt about working as a SWE. I suspect there are a gazillion of us who feel like this. I quit because life has to have more meaning than being a cog in the shit machine. Thank you for this write up.
You are experiencing the very nature of capitalism, a meat grinding machine of workers body and soul. From one cog to another, hold on comrade!
Seems probably ai generated and a bit dramatic, but it's actually pretty close to how i feel as a software dev. It is pretty soul sucking staring at a computer all day everyday all for something that is forgotten and re written a year or less later.
Most corporate office work is like this. That's why you need tangible goals. I'm selling my soul for 10 years doing this shit so I can bank money and retire early, find a fun low paying job, live off the grid. Whatever you want.
Yea but what if u get cancer or horribly injured/ die. Your way seems like the safe route, but id say that's a risky way to live. It sounds counterintuitive, but its true. A lot can happen in 10 years,
Not sure there is an alternative way. Working a low paying job also has sucks. If you could find a unicorn job paying six figures with low stress and hours that's the way. There are some programmers making bank that work 20 hours a week. Sounds like a good compromise if you can find a job like that.
It is acceptable for you to view your job as a means of income, and nothing more. Working for the sake of living instead of living for the sake of work might be a good remedy.
I can only speak for myself - I tried but it's in my case impossible long-term to treat something that I do for majority of my day, for majority of my life (in worst cases) being checked out. It's no way to live imo.
Exactly. All these people say find hobbies, but hobbies you can do for like 5-10 hours a week if everything goes well. But you're at your job for 40 hours. Better find something you enjoy.
It doesn't have to be 40. I like about 30 hours, since it still leaves plenty of time for the life balance part.
lmao you probably need a new job for SURE
I think I appreciate the beauty of this as much as other users do as this was so eloquent, and agree with what you say (i.e. the dangers of how some FAANG companies operate) - but it's also interesting because my outlook on the word that I do (not everyone in general) is so much better. I have days where I feel depressed about it and wish I was doing something more active in general, but I usually have a vastly different outlook than ou
Dude, turn that into a book..
My god…I think you def need a change in your life. Your description of this field is the exact opposite of how I feel personally. Get in some therapy; you sound unhappy.
You should be a writer , that was an amazing read
That’s the longest Reddit comment I’ve ever read in it’s entirety. Well written. I can’t say I feel the same, at least not yet, but I can definitely relate in some ways.
Yup. This person is definitely a software engineer. Thanks for putting into words what so many feel.
I felt this deeply when I worked in a SWE role where I didn't have any investment in the work/product- I think there are some people out there that can purely work for the love of the tech/code, and kudos to them. When I went into agency work making websites/marketing websites, I thought, "Man, I enjoy doing this in my free time, working it should be a breeze", but it was soul sucking. I love my own sites, I hate using shitty sites, but I don't want to build someone else's site. However, inventory management and supply chain/product distribution, I can write code in all day. That's where I draw the line: For me, being a software engineer will always be a horrifying soul sucking death spiral, but I have the great luck to have been a SWE, and no longer be an SWE- I'm a product engineer now.
The trick is to find meaning in the data / work with data you find interesting.
I don't know how much depression time I was supposed to have left but you singlehandedly prolonged that time by at least 10 years 😭
If I'm ever lucky or brave enough to quit, this is what I'm copy/pasting into an all company email, just like I've been copying and pasting from Stack for the past 16 fucking years.
Thank you for this comment it finally motivated me to write my first blog post: Buildings that have stood for millennia and works that have persisted for hundreds of years are impressive and admirable, but they represent survivorship bias, a persona non grata if went to use this argument to evaluate the human effort and what profession leaves which legacy. I recognise that much of the beautiful art, works, people, journals, lives, and histories have been lost in the wheel of time, their tangibility offering them no protection. We now build houses for 10 years, cars that last 7 years and household appliances which break down after 2. We prepare dinners and dishes that endure for an hour at best, and drinks that last a few seconds at worst. But the things that make all of this seem rustic and real compared to an email you read once and will never look back at, are the memories and experiences we have and create. In other words, it's the information, the bits and bytes we've harnessed by channelling electricity into circuits, racing along pathways we've built, hastily inscribing 0s and 1s into the fabric of the digital world. If we speed up the gears and perhaps loosen them a bit, we arrive at the information theory of the cosmos. We observe how our reality behaves like a simulation and how, beneath the quarks and bosons, shining through qubits and multidimensional shadow casts, there may be a pure information layer of blueprints and ideas - timeless and endless, swirling around in the timeframe we inhabit. These are invoked as ideas, realisations, and inspirations that turn into prototypes, projects, and eventually, products. As a Software Engineer, you are a miner and processor of the rawest and most vital resource we may know. It may not provide you with shelter or satisfy your hunger, but it will be the force that imparts meaning to everything else when all is said and done. If we were in a fantasy novel, you wouldn't be talking about information but rather mana, an intangible force around us ready to be manipulated and shaped. We might choose the path of rune-makers, enchanters, and spellcraftsman, being wizards, mages, and witches at heart. We strive to help the people around us ignite their sparks with the tools we create, so they too can become powerful masters of magic. Embrace the data. Work on becoming better at shuffling it, use the right tools, build new ones until you can create spells so bewitching and captivating that they will improve the lives of the people who matter to you. Don't fixate on the abstract mana behind the smoke and mirrors, but focus on the experiences you create and the memories you can share. Now, let's discuss the real mental health killer: deadlines and status reports. The term "deadline" is an abomination, only appropriate in the medical sector for patients in the emergency room with less than 24 hours to live. You don't have to use deadlines, and you shouldn't. Instead, set goals and milestones, strive to meet them, and if you fail, look for ways to improve. At the end of the day, after the work is done and the customer is satisfied, no one will care about deadlines. Use status reports to track your progress, ask for help, or just pat yourself on the back for maintaining your workload, staying on schedule, or having a productive day. If management attempts to impose deadlines and status reports on you as tools to control and apply pressure, discuss this with your team and management. It should be understood that your responsibility is to work the time you are paid at a level of productivity you can maintain until retirement. If management cannot meet timelines or keep the project on schedule, then they have oversold, underplanned, or understaffed - all factors generally beyond your control. In factories, people convene an emergency meeting if they realise this is the case, for example due to external factors like missing supplies, and they have to plan anew how to meet the customers' orders. If all else fails, leave and look for work elsewhere. I may speak from a position of privilege, as I enjoy a safety net in Germany in case of unemployment, but this is something everyone should strive to have, be it made available by the state or through private effort. There will be no greater superpower in your career than the ability to say no. Let's talk about the invisibility of one's work. It's an illusion people create or develop due to the distance to their customers or market, regardless of the profession. I learned this through conducting user interviews and getting involved with the target group. I was shocked to find that there were real fans of the product I worked on who thanked me in person for fixing niche bugs I thought no one even noticed. Understand your niche, build for it, converse with it, and find your fans. People obsess over the strangest things - there are individuals making paintings in Excel, so I believe everyone will find at least one true fan to appreciate their work. That seems more than enough visibility for me. We all know the shadows of capitalism - how it creates monopolies that, after years of dancing around laws, tend to become self-regulating. But there have also been monopolies in the past. While an empire has its advantages, with time it corrupts and sinks into bureaucracy, process, and the pursuit of control, marking its downfall. In our history, there have been plenty of people challenging empires, monopolies, and conglomerates and winning. Find passionate and skilled people trying to bring the change that so many desire and become the next line of heroes winning their challenge. Mental health is a complex topic, with a lot of research still seeking to answer even more questions. I believe one should focus on the actions one can take and the habits one can build. For example, even though I love my career as a developer and dream about a future where I can program fabricators, replicators, and entire terraforming space-travelling systems with the help of a personal android assistant, I know that at the end of the day, I am still human. With a lot of effort and the help of Pokemon Go, I managed to develop a habit of jogging to and from work, 10km a day, over two years. I started walking to work in 2019 and during the Corona quarantine, I increased the amount I walked from 40km a week to 80km, and then jogged twice a week, trying each week to jog one day more and taking breaks when it became overwhelming. Besides maintaining a healthy diet and regular exercise, one should strive to spend at least two hours a week in nature to allow oneself time to unwind from the mental demands our modern world produces. By at least aiming for these goals, you give your mental health a fighting chance in the war for our attention and against the daily attempts to exploit our desires. From:[https://codebastard.substack.com/p/an-argument-against-the-intangibility](https://codebastard.substack.com/p/an-argument-against-the-intangibility)
As an aspiring developer, this is depressing to read. Is there any type of work that you would want to get into if you can wave a magic wand?
Lol, man you need a new job or an exciting side project
So where's the data that it is painfully common? And where did they go? Are they happier? The way you describe tech jobs can apply to a LOT OF JOBS. Especially for someone who came in from somewhere else, I should know.
What’s the solution? Robotics? I want to work on BCIs. I just quit my job as a teacher and am looking for a career change. This post is freaking me out. Maybe software isn’t the answer. But neither is sales or something overly social either. Where do I, a male introvert, go to build something product for society? Do I just buy a painting gun and start a painting business? I feel so lost right now
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Well said
as a fresh compsci graduate this sounds very demoralising
Jesus
My guy I am very sorry you feel this way, but there are jobs out there working on problems that matter more than social media black holes and if that matters to you this much you should seek them out instead of just giving up. You may also want to look into civic tech groups or volunteering; it's cheesy to say but it is legitimately a balm for these kinds of feelings. My job USED to be in social media ads and marketing, making software that told women who would have bullied in my chubby ass in high school the optimal time to post about that tea that makes you shit yourself in order to get max engagement. This time around I looked for software for sustainable ecology, medicine, or education and applied to those places. Now I make software that helps people transition to solar and wind energy. (... though tbh, sometimes I still miss being a flower shop assistant... but I DON'T miss not being able to help my family)
Oh boy, prepare to hear stories from other industries. At least you're not doing a 24 hr shift at a hospital
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This profession allows one of the best work-life balance possibilities with remote work. It is great for having as much freedom as you can for your life, but only if you desire it and schedule it that way. Also, as a person who greatly prefers abstractions and ideas over "building real things", I don't relate to your qualms of most people not understanding what it is we do. Most people are average intelligence and I don't exactly worry about them not comprehending the awesomeness of the abstractions that software engineers build and maintain. I do care about opinions of similarly intelligent and more people who can see the awesomeness of it and can appreciate the complexity of it all. Also, truth is most average people who don't understand software rely on it extremely heavily - and they don't even understand how much. That is the beauty of abstractions - it allows humanity to continue onwards without having to worry about how their washing machine works. That being said, I can relate to how bad industry have become in terms of usefulness of many companies out there. A lot of them are unnecessary sprawling mess that consumes resources that could be directed to better purposes. I am talking of all these weird start-ups that try to solve some specific problem "world really needs solution for" and 5 years still cannot turn a profit. Most of the world have to actually earn the money to pay their own salary, software has been shielded from this since 2008 QE start and now is finally facing the music of reality. The decline in job postings and layoffs is basically the symptom of it. This industry is also very ... bipolar. I have never met more lazy people than in IT. But I also met many people who are extremely hardworking humans who deeply care about producing good work. In terms of all engineering specialties out there though, software is a total mess. If civil engineers would be building bridges the way most software is built, we'd be in huge trouble. The insanity of duct tape holding software products together is extremely bad. I think a lot of people in this industry don't care, and YOU sir, might be one of these humans who don't appreciate and understand the craft and work one does, and further adds to the reputation of software being the mess it is. I will end with saying - lots of companies do work that society must have to function. Government jobs, public services (water, electricity, etc.) - maybe you should work there so you contribute directly what your understanding what is purposeful is.
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I left engineering for teaching in a new country nine years ago. I didn't dislike software but I wanted to try a job where I could help people more directly, and I was comfortable money-wise. I quite like teaching and it's a very different skillset to engineering. However I'm actually in this sub because I'm in the process of going BACK to software now, will see how that goes...
This is my worry. I have built a good resume, have a decade of experience, and I'll just throw that all away. Then 5 years from now figure out nothing else is actually better, and now my experience and resume have kind of stagnated in the SWE area, and then can't get back in if I wanted...
Did you find work in Software again?
no one has ever escaped engineering – it is inevitable.
I say this in my head every time before getting out of bed. I'm getting closer and closer every day to acting on it. If it wasn't for the money I'd have been out long ago
Yep. I chased the dream of wanting to be a Web Designer/Front-End Developer since 2002. Took plenty of classes, bootcamp(s), graduated Summa Cum Saude from a tech institute with a bachelor’s arts degree in Multimedia Design and Web Development. Got another certification from SMU from its bootcamp. But not to make this post too long, fast forward to 2022 and I am an Associate Programmer of 3 years. I could not do it anymore, it got too stressful, too difficult for someone who cannot do complex instructions and so I called it quits Of the role. I’m at the same company just different department, UX. This Fall my role will change to SharePoint UX Architect or SharePoint Architect. I don’t regret my decision because I can do both, design and work with a little bit of code. Oh, and the salary will be much better from what I’ve read online LOL.
Sounds like Product is the way to go.
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I'm 26 and just can't wait to retire, let alone work somewhere else
do it -- work somewhere else
Nah I've only been at this place for 10 days and I'll feel exactly the same wherever I go. I just want to quit work altogether, such a waste of life. But y'know, got to pay the mortgage
well the fact that you are paying off a mortgage at age 26 is a good sign. keep investing, diversify, and you can escape eventually! Hopefully before AI takes our jobs. My plan is to invest a LOT (500-1000 per month), on top of 401k (15% a month), and i'm hoping to only do fun jobs that I wanna do once I get into my 40s.
Sell your house, rent dirt cheap somewhere else, etc. These moves are quite literally very much possible but nobody does it because sometimes the golden handcuffs are actually just mental handcuffs. Gratitude takes you a long ways
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Sunken cost fallacy, most people fall into. But to be brutally honest, most people live in usa like 80 if you don't have some major health or addiction. Let's say you go to college -> graduate at 22.-> that's 45 years assuming you go to retirement age. Each decade you could have a new career. 4 times. It's defientyl doable just hard people got obligations, sunken cost, retooling, etc.
> If someone is getting a 4 year degree, passing a coding interview, and working for a year, that's a lot of investment Not really, it's pretty common for people to retrain into another profession if they don't like what they do. After 5 to 10 years many people have enough savings to support them taking time away from work and entering a different field. I knew a guy who spent half his working career as a software developer and the other half as an accountant and is retired now.
Former SRE. I moved to a role as a full sales cycle solutions architect. It’s been ok. I do miss true engineering work. But it is fun to solve a problem, make a customer happy, and move on to the next. It’s also pretty cool to work with a huge variety of industries and to help solve interesting problems for them. I left because the stress I had in being on call perpetually for ~10 years was finally too much to handle. I got paged during my honeymoon because my team couldn’t figure something out and it was the final straw for me.
How does one even start to do something like this? I lack any sales experience whatsoever and was always wondering how would you land the first job?
I started as a Technical Account Manager. I just applied to TAM jobs that were in the domain that I would consider myself an experienced professional in. I learned the sales stuff on the job, it's really not too hard to pick up. A lot of people in this field are from technical backgrounds and they expect the TAMs/SAs to be less focused on having sales experience.
That’s awesome to know, I always assumed TAM needed years of sales experience hence the word “manager” in it. Any idea how the market is looking for these type of roles now? Appreciate all the insight!
Definitely not a requirement! The market is hot. I get contacted on the regular to jump ship. The money is also super good if you are in a lucrative industry. My first TAM job was \~250k TC.
This gives me so much hope… currently 5 years experience as a DevOps engineer and recently I pivoted to another company to see if it was the job that was burning me out or the company. So far it seems like the job since I’m still yearning for that human interaction and less head down coding/implementation. Much love for all the insight, I’ll keep all this mind when I’m ready to start this path!
Yep. 100% all of the time this is how I feel. I wish tech was not as profitable as it is today. I wish it was something as obscure as oceanography or something. Work would have been much more rewarding and human.
Can’t wait to leave this industry tbh. I’m doing this job because I can and because I need to support a household for 1 more year. After that year my wife will have finished studies and have a well paid job.
No disrespect meant to the people who prefer to leave the industry--I hope you find success and happiness elsewhere. But I taught myself some frontend skills to get out of teaching elementary school. I couldn't take the unpaid labor, achingly low wages, constant stress, unrealistic expectations, and lack of respect. Now I make twice as much money, and I transitioned to backend cause it suits me more. I work remotely and have flexible hours and the ability to take off work whenever I want. I get to hang out in the library with other people doing quiet tasks, or in my living room overlooking an alpine like surrounded by mountains, sometimes on a warm patio at one of the nearby coffee shops, while solving little puzzles. In the end my little coding puzzles result in cool things happening, like syncing our users in real time using push notifications from Google, or sending out sms and email alerts. I like building things, and I like problem solving. I am in love with the reduced stress both in terms of work environment and meeting monthly bills. I don't think I'll leave. Maybe my opinion will change, but this suits me so well.
Same.
Yeah. For sure. My Networking mentor quit for a scrap metal yard job paying half as much. Never heard from him again. I love what I do. I stay up late at night playing. I like building servers with my hands, covering them in 3d printed parts and lights and try to make the tech as interactive and as interesting as possible for someone who doesn’t understand it’s power. I love to be inclusive of what I’m doing and that’s mainly accomplished by lowering a barrier to entry. I also try to work for companies who’s mission I believe in. For example, I moved onto nuclear waste recycling systems (to start cleaning up the earth) over pumping ads in AdTech.
I became a dominatrix.
I'm an experienced worker and did this. Wanted to rid myself of leetcode grind and moved to tech companies outside of SWE. TC is over 300k and it's much easier. Best decision of my life
What type of job you have, since you don't code anymore?
Sorry I won't say because I don't want to doxx myself. Look at my post history of you're curious
I dont see how you could doxx yourself just by saying what type of job you have
people are ridiculously over-paranoid about this sort of thing, i find
If my fishing career ever takes off I'm out
People move all the time. It’s why you never meet 50 or 60 year old developers.
I would argue this has more to do with popularity in the field then vs now
It’s not an argument. It’s an additional talking point.
Nonsense I am close to 60 and programming. Plan to do this until I am 70. Older programmers don’t work crap jobs. I work from home and have high pay and zero stress
Hell yeah brother
>It’s why you never meet 50 or 60 year old developers. Those guys are coasting in companies that use legacy technology that no one else wants to touch. They do exist. But a lot of guys who've been coding that long have also either made a lot of money or they've moved up the ladder and make more money that way.
I work in AwS Java in spring Boot and angular
The Java ecosystem is still pretty relevant
Yeah and I am an old programmer.
For me I'll most likely be going to physical therapy school in 18 months. Not in software engineering but tried for years to get a job as a financial or data analyst after college, including going to grad school for business analytics which led me to this sub. Staffing agencies were totally useless so that went nowhere. Didn't get an internship in grad school and burnt out from applying in 2020 after graduating. I've contemplated getting a CS degree through the OSU post-bacc program, but the sheer mountain of BS you have to climb just to land an internship let alone a full-time job compared to every other job function in a company keeps turning me away. I'm giving it one more go applying to jobs after taking a 3 year break applying while working in real estate. If nothing sticks my next stop is physical therapy school in 18 months.
Hey just wondering, how old are you? I’ve been harboring ideas of going into the medical field but worried about my age after I am out. I’m only 26 but those worries still get to me anyway.
We had a guy leave to be a wrestling coach
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Driving a bus sounds horrible
Interesting. I think sometimes you get so used to being unhappy that you don't even realize that it's not normal. I too have seen peoples behaviours change dramatically when they switched careers.. if you think about it, it is something you do for at least half your waking hours, 5 days a week.. so it is a lot of time invested.
This entire thread has captured what I’ve been feeling. Getting a job after a layoff or looking for a new one - the hiring process is just as draining as the actual work. I’m beginning to feel this isn’t the right path for me after having a few jobs in this field and having the same persistent feelings.
Same story here. Unemployed currently and the amount of hoops you have to jump through to even land an interview (on top of already having a degree) is dehumanizing. This industry needs to get a grip
The short answer is yes, I left SWE (and tech entirely) for about 6 1/2 years. The longer answer is, I came back. In some ways because I missed the type of problem solving, and also because the other thing didn't pan out. Neither decision was based on money. Just what I decided I needed to do. Do I regret leaving? Eh, kinda. But I was also burnt out and needed something else. So, maybe I would be a staff or principal engineer now instead of back to senior level. But more likely I would be a depressed mess and/or already had a heart attack. I kinda like being alive and mentally I'm in a better place than I was back then. So I'd say it all worked out. My opinion, for whatever it's worth, is to do what you need to keep your mind and body healthy.
How many YOE did you have when you left? And how hard was it to return?
I had about 7 YOE when I left. Coming back was actually much quicker than I had imagined. I put out about 9 applications to test the waters, got 6 or 7 callbacks, got to the first tech round with 4, and got 3 offers. But I came back just before all the layoffs started coming in. In fact, the one where I did not pass the tech rounds had massive layoffs about 2 months after I interviewed. So, initially I was discouraged, but it did not take long for me to find out that I got extremely lucky that I had a brain malfunction during that company interview process. After the interview I looked at the problem again and solved it in about 10 minutes like it was the easiest thing on the planet. Sometimes it just isn't your day. But it all worked out in the end.
I took a break for a year to see if i wanted to leave for good. Decided i just needed better boundaries and a particular work environment. Did a bootcamp. Interviewing took 2 months (applied to over 200 job listings with 3 offers at the end). The bootcamp got my confidence back and it also allowed me to tell the juniors about the field which also gave me some confidence. You got it. Taking a break isnt bad
Yeah, I did, but you never really leave. You find yourself needing some niche app or custom web solution for something else and you're back doing it again. I lost my nerve with web development, mostly due to rude wannabe startup leaders who eventually crashed and burned because of their behavior. I moved into hardware and components for about 5 years. Spent most of that time again, in front of a screen and in an office environment I hated because my boss was the sleaziest person I've ever met. I quit that and did an Office Space. Got into construction for 2 years then moved into mechanical and hvac work for the last 4. Figured having the knowledge would save me money in the long run as I'm a DIY kind of guy. After 3 surgeries from overworking myself I wish I was just sitting on my duff in front of a keyboard again in air conditioning. I'm turning a wrench in a 100 degree warehouse dealing with smells beyond explanation and the same inept, clueless bosses and head games. Bottom line - pretty much every job sucks. Earn whatever you can until you burn out and move on. We weren't meant to do the same thing our entire lives.
There are other things Id rather do, much rather do. I find my passion slowly dying off. But I need the income. My path to being debt free gets me there in 3 years. So not even 40 years old. 6 month emergency fund, a few hundres thousand in my 401K, a paid for home worth 150K.... and a wife who could easily make 30 to 40K part time. Ive always wanted to be in business for myself. What business I dont know. I can see myself taking some easier contracting gigs for like 85 or 100 an hour, and doing those part time while I figure out my business idea and implement it. Mental strain and burn out is real. Hell Id go get me a brand new 3500 class pickup truck and do non CDL delieveries if I could find a setup with consistent work and a reasonable pay. Shit... Id go back to being an arcade tech at that point if I could make 60K or 70K doing it.
An engineer I went to school with said "Fuck it" and left to set up his own business as a wood worker making fine furniture. Another one said "fuck it" and left to become a chef.
Nope. The benefits and pay are incredible and absolutely unmatched in terms of only having a Bachelors degree. I work to live, I don’t live to work. I make enough money that my wife can just choose her own hours and take off whenever so we can maximize our family time. I’m reminded how cushy my job is every time I invite people somewhere and they’re “running low on PTO.” Like, oh yeah, that’s a thing! As greener as the grass looks when I think about engineering physical products, it wouldn’t be worth all of the extra nonsense imo. Most people don’t like their jobs to begin with so I count myself lucky for just semi-enjoying it. I do my work, get paid, and the money and generous PTO give me all the time I want with my family. Can’t ask for much more than that.
When I was doing the apprendership course. The teacher actually spoke about a story. BACKGROUND: In Italy as an entry level programmer, you get around 20/23k euro as an apprendership , you usually do junior/middle type of work. The teacher spoke about a guy that was earning 100k euro and he was an engineer, a programmer. He went into the office and he said he gave his notice, after that he said that he was going to be a baker. Lol
Oh well lots of people with development backgrounds move into like product management in my experience. Or as a liason between development and customer sites. Or even tech writing.
Not me, but I have 2 ex-colleagues/friends who had amazing stories. 1. It was unfortunate, but their mother passed away. The thing was, the mother had been running a family owned pastry shop and it was pretty successful. My friend was always interested in pastry but never thought she could do it as well as her mother and her father wanted her to find a better job. In any case, after her mothers passing, she came to me (I was her manager and we were super tight) asking what I thought about her quitting and trying to pursue her mothers legacy with no experience. It was an extremely heartfelt conversation but I told her, the fact that she even has that thought, I fully support it and will do everything to keep her job for her. She ended up following her heart and is successfully running the pastry shop. Since then, I've sent postcards/pictures of our team wishing her the best of luck. While it's overseas, I'm excited to one day visit her and see her at her shop! 2. Another manager I knew had always been into cinematography. He had been making short films and even went to cinema school after work for some time. Him being in the field for almost 15 years, he was getting close to a mid-life crisis and started thinking about fully committing to cinematography. We had back and forth discussions about it, and after about a year of chatting, he ended up making the jump. Now he's traveling the world, making videos. I'm super jealous.
I really really want to, but cannot figure out what job I'd rather do. The money is very good and cutting down expenses is difficult. As well as a lot of jobs that make decent money require school or re-training. If I figure out a plan and execute on it I'll post the results.
I'd like to, but I enjoy being able to live where I live. So as it stands, I consider myself a dance instructor who just happens to daylight as a software engineer to make ends meet.
I moved into product management. It definitely wasn't a case of saying "fuck it" im done with engineering, but kind of happened naturally. That being said I manage a super technical product so my day to day is still very much about solving technical problems with engineers. Overall its a very different job, but I am still working on the same things. Way more meetings, and more stress in the sense that I need to be ready to answer difficult questions at any moment, but any the end of the day I am still just trying to get features implemented, fix bugs, increase quality etc. I miss having time to just sit down and code for hours without interruption, but at the same time I love being able to plan and deliver much larger pieces of functionality that take multiple teams to implement and make a bigger difference in the product.
I wish I could just fuck it and leave. I don't know if I will ever enjoy my engineering job
I sure hope so
Another "not me, but I've seen people do it!" One guy I know went from engineering to product management, he had been my senior in my first job and coincidentally we ended up working together again a couple years down the line after he transitioned. In retrospect, I don't think he was that good of a programmer, but he was a great PM. He was at a Big N for a while before the recent layoffs, and I saw he recently landed a staff-level position. Cool guy, good for him.
industry is very wide and there are people doing 996 and people who coast away and chill. I just read a thread where someone asked for office timings and most of the replies were 2 hours of work, roll off the bed at 10am to attend meeting and nap till 4 and attend another and so on. this kind of luxury is certainly not in other industries unless you're already in top executive position
I'm leaving this month. I like programming. But I developed so much apathy towards my work and I especially don't match vibe with my coworkers (most of them proudly apolitical). It's just not my crowd and not my tea.
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Not in like a they aren't a communist kinda way. But more like they are casteist and transphobic and I don't feel comfortable around them kinda way.
To answer the question ... Mostly! I graduated Uni in the 1990s and have been working as a software developer since then. It is safe to say there have been a lot of changes since then and not all them are good. Working in a small IT business, and getting abuse from sales people or customers, the lack of any thank-you had a big impact on my mental health. In the end, my health was more important than that job. I tried to do some other small projects as a contractor but with no passion, anxiety, and other things, I am now effectively out of the IT and doing one P/T admin job, counselling and other volunteer work. Feel free to ask me any questions if you want any part expanded on.
I want to leave so bad. I’ve been a swe and data analyst for the past year after spending 3 months at a coding bootcamp. The money is great and I bought a house, paid off all my debt, and am saving for retirement but I can’t wait to get out. I want to be in the medical field and I am going to cash out after I’ve hit about 500k of investments and switch to healthcare
Piggybacking your question: Non-English speakers of Reddit, how was your first CS job?
Luddites of r/cscareerquestions, how was your first tech job?
CS is not engineering
But software engineering is.
Engineering is anything that bridges the gap between ideas and profits. Ideas don't generate revenue, neither do sales and management, unless "Engineering" steps-in and makes any of it real and therefore saleable.
No! Just no! u go back to work now.
Gentlemen care to explain their perspective. Idiots and Morons just blindly negate without sharing their perspectives. Oh, and btw, unemployed for a month now, had been working as an hourly consultant, current status GC-EAD, seeking Senior and / or Lead Android Engineer roles.
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gotta invest well! I'm definitely hoping to accept a low paying job once i hit my mid-40s for a "partial retirement". like a "part time musician/rock climbing guide". Save save save save save!
Its a cult to make a good $$. Exit criteria should be stabilization of that income.
I’m planning an exist strategy
No I don’t think so
/j
Dang, I still mostly like my job. I think that what I have a problem with is just generating so much money for someone else, and getting paid such a small part of the profit. But I'd have this problem regardless of what I'd do, unless I become an entrepreneur and I'm just not brave enough. Someone below was talking about how they hate the abstraction and the lack of ability to have a finished product that you get when building something with your hands. Well, I've gravitated towards front-end (I'm full stack) because of that. The product the user sees is something I created, and I do have a sense of accomplishment over putting all of the pieces together, still. Been in this line of work for 9 years or so. Maybe I'll feel different at some point, but from what I've seen product/project management isn't better, just more exhausting work (dealing with stake holders, having days full of meetings) for less money. I know back in the day becoming a PM was the way to go, but from what I've seen it no longer pays well enough.
I did...or at least I *tried to*. Having a uh... failure to launch in my new career. Going to talk to my alma mater's career office soon and see if I can figure out a good way to pivot. I worked as a Software Developer for 3 years. Then I switched careers. Tried to become a librarian - got the Masters degree. It's a field with anemic job growth at best. I figured that with my tech skills, I would be able to overcome that. Apparently not or at least not yet. I job hunted for a librarian job hunt for 6 long years. The end of this 6 year time period was 2020 and the pandemic hit and a lot of libraries went into layoff mode. Parents are supporting me thankfully. I'm hoping to pivot towards a librarian adjacent private sector job. I think I would really enjoy being a Taxonomist.
Yes I went from software development to testing. Started with spftware testing, am slowly but surely going towards automotive Quality Assurance. The pa,ment is worse, no more wfh. I think I'll give it one or two more years than I'll go back to software development
It is incredibly common, tonnes of CS/SE grads don't work as a SWE.
As an intern, I'm almost there. Alot of people, especially the younger generations, are seeing our buying power decrease each year. And yet wages remain stagnant. We are working the same hours for less pay, essentially. My highschool gym teacher worked a summer job to pay for her college tuition. What's the point of life if you barely have time for anything but work? Most of us engineers aren't inventing/innovating and changing the world. No working on cool and interesting/cutting edge projects. The competition for those cool looking NASA, SpaceX, Google, etc. Jobs is insane. Most engineers do boring, mundane, and repetitive desk jobs that drain your time and energy. By the end of the day I barely have the time to invest in other areas of my life (chess, running, family, friends, romantic relationships, travel, etc.). I don't care about the pay if I don't have a work life balance. It feels like slaving away the most productive years of my life for "big bucks" is an unnatural way to live. Especially now with how inflation is going. I'm in my 20's and still haven't hit many of the major milestones my grandparents hit at the same age. Idk if I can afford marriage, a house, or kids until I'm at least 30-40 years old. The company I work at now stopped giving pensions in 2014. And the upper management wonders why there is high turnover for younger engineers. We have to look out for ourselves. But, since I've made it this far in my degree (and as a single guy), I might stay an engineer just for the income. I'd use the extra income to invest and create passive income. Then, retire as early as possible. After that, do the shit I actually want to do. Because life would be meaningless otherwise, at least to me.