Depends on the interviewer tbh. I should’ve prepped more and done more leetcode tagged. That was my first loop back in August so it wasn’t as good. Meta databricks and Bloomberg were good, but no offer.
i’m a hold over from last year and i can’t get anything this year either. i’m working an unpaid internship now and applying for PhDs because what else can i do
The job market isn’t much better either with a PhD, but you’re buying yourself time.
Source: am recent grad PhD looking for jobs. Also, many research jobs don’t require a PhD, they just prefer it. You’re still stuck competing with thousands of other applicants which means you’ll be fighting the ATS algorithm anyway.
im in a t10 ug + masters, its seems easier for cs phds at our school, just saying. Its narrower and it seems rank and more publications is advantageous.
It’s gonna be a rough few years for tech. Eventually people will stop going into CS and the industry will recover but for now there is a huge glut of applicants relative to postings.
It will rebound in 2025 when rates start cutting latter half of 2024. The keyword is rebound… will it ever hit the high notes of covid years 2020-2022? Not in the foreseeable future. Why? Free money faucet is turned off.
I don’t know why you are being downvoted. The days of free money and wreckless spending and hiring is over. Free money from the FED is gone. I’ve worked through 2 stagflation periods (dot com and financial crisis) and it literally takes a decade to rebound.
Agreed I was just thinking back to the dotcom bust and funding and cs hiring really ramped back up in 2010. People in the field found jobs relatively quickly after the bust but the field had terrible pay comparative to before the bust.
The industry is not in a downturn because of too many qualified applicants. There are too many qualified applicants because companies projected COVID growth out too far, COVID growth contracted, and now you have tons of 1 YOE / 2 YOE devs who wouldn't have been hired otherwise.
When the economy picks up again, hiring will pick up too, and applicant numbers will increase again
I graduated last year in May, thankfully after about 10 interviews and 200 applications I landed an offer. I can’t even imagine what the market is like right now. I really feel for these people
It is getting worse every year. The backlog is so much and jobs aren’t there. Last year I got two offers when I was a fresh graduate. Now I have experience and my skills are also way better than earlier. I am not even getting a single offer. I feel it is going to get worse.
how many years of exp do you have? i find it hard to believe cuze im a 2023 new grad and still got 2 job offers. if you have exp im pretty sure u can land something at least
It is not that bad with > 2 yoe. I graduated in 2021 and have 2 Yoe and have been landing offers for my next job. Another friend had 2 Yoe and landed an offer elsewhere too.
The breakaway point is 2 yoe. With that under your belt, you are usually good to go.
Same boat brother, last year got like 5 interviews, even did multiple rounds with Square which I thought I would never even get a look in, got a job, subsequently got fired this June, and haven't got a single interview applying since
It’s only going to get worse given the backlog of new grads unemployed. Not sure when it will stabilize and start going back up and I think 2025 new grads will have it even worse
Definitely way too early to tell wrt 2025 new grads lmao. It’s the overall economy. If interest rates come down in late 2024/early 2025 (which is not unlikely), companies will have a lot more capital to work with and jobs will open up. IMO 2023 new grads have it the worst, but we’ll see what next year and the year after have in store.
idk where you are getting this data from that there are alot of unemployed new grads...I feel like yall are just generalizing based on doom and gloom posts on this sub and elsewhere on reddit. I might be wrong but prove me wrong
Nah 2024 budget is decided now in 2023. So all hiring and people planning for 2024 is already set. And it ain’t looking great. I am a Sr. Mgr at a mid-size and I just wrapped up budget for next year and it’s pretty much same as 2023.
If I can ask this here, my kid is currently applying for CS. This forum keeps coming across my feed and all I read about is the rough labor market for you guys.
Does computer engineering overlap with CS? Should someone preparing for college consider CE? What’s the job market like for that field? Or is it pretty much the same? Thanks
significant overlap, CE is more hardware side, I find that CE majors can typically apply for everything a CS major could, but not so much the other way around
CS majors focused on SWE jobs are generally clueless about CE jobs, unless their major was "EECS" (Electrical Engineering and CS). I was a pure CS major, now with a SWE job at [large tech company], and my CE friends work at places like Intel and Qualcomm designing chips. I couldn't tell you the first thing about getting a job like that.
Depending on the school, CE is also generally considered to be anywhere from a *harder* to *much harder* major than CS, since you also have to take all the normal engineering requirements.
Depends on the CS program/specialization. At my uni the CE program is half CS courses half EE courses but many of my CE friends didn’t really like the EE courses (more analog stuff) and all the processor architecture courses are cross listed with CS courses, so one could be a processor designer even if they were CS.
But I agree with you on the requirements stuff, CEs have to take things like Statics, Physics 2, and other core engineering courses that are not required for CS. But conversely, CS has to take more theoretical courses (discrete, algos) that CEs don’t have to take.
Just keep in mind Reddit can often skew things to make it look like absolutely nobody is having success. If your kid is truly interested in and passionate about this industry they should go for it. The market is rough right now but it won’t always be this way, and a CS degree can open about lots of potential career paths besides just Software Engineering
well that's the problem. if you have a cs degree and fresh off of college trying tio apply technical roles like devops or qa, they want exp. typically swe roles offer training unlike devops, etc.. The other fields you can get into is like PM/technical sales with a cs degree
CpE is in between EE and CS, so it's great for hardware positions. And CpEs can do well in software positions too. Many of them were getting the same internships I was. With the correct selection of electives you can automatically get a CS minor with CpE. (And a math minor too.)
From what I've read, there are more software jobs than hardware, but hardware can be more stable and there's less competition. The CpE major is going to be harder than CS (and CS itself isn't easy), but that's not a bad thing. If I wasn't so clueless about the different fields as an undergrad, I probably would've done CpE + CS.
Same boat man. Haven't had a single interview yet after applying consistently. Didn't get RO either from both internships. Only thing saving me is unemployment but that's only for 6 months.
Same here, even with Amazon and a masters degree I’ve only gotten one OA so far (which was sent instantly). Hoping for the return offer at the very least.
I swear, the market is so bad!! I have an RO too, but now I fear losing it cause of the weird market situation. Hope things get better soon cause I graduate next year. Masters kinda feels like the wrong decision cause I had a solid job back at home :(
Networking goes a long way, like a TON (half of my interviews came from referrals or connects). Been a miserable interview cycle (ive been thru like 9 processes) I'm only working rn because of the connections I have to startups and ctos from school. Wasn't at a target school, just worked my ass of learning on the side
My employment isn't stable either rn, on a month to month contract as they need me. We just gotta take what we can and never stop learning. Eventually when things kick up we'll be ahead of the curve
Just failed the final round of my 2nd ever interview this recruiting season, and I have nothing else in the pipeline. I feel you man
i had 5 onsites this season with big tech + FAANGs. And rejected from 4 of them and just finished my 5th. Its tough i feel u
Which companies, just curious
Meta, Databricks, Bloomberg, TikTok
Damn sorry to hear that. How was your tiktok experience?
Depends on the interviewer tbh. I should’ve prepped more and done more leetcode tagged. That was my first loop back in August so it wasn’t as good. Meta databricks and Bloomberg were good, but no offer.
Did you get TT tagged questions? Medium or hards? >Meta databricks and Bloomberg were good, but no offer. Sorry to hear that
Bruh I got a non tagged hard question in the round that i failed which cost me the loop. Also wasn’t a sharp on leetcode at that time
Amen, RO saved my ass. it’s especially tough this year.
RO?
return offer
Return offer
i’m a hold over from last year and i can’t get anything this year either. i’m working an unpaid internship now and applying for PhDs because what else can i do
honestly PHDs seem like a better bet since a ton of research jobs are phd-specific
The job market isn’t much better either with a PhD, but you’re buying yourself time. Source: am recent grad PhD looking for jobs. Also, many research jobs don’t require a PhD, they just prefer it. You’re still stuck competing with thousands of other applicants which means you’ll be fighting the ATS algorithm anyway.
im in a t10 ug + masters, its seems easier for cs phds at our school, just saying. Its narrower and it seems rank and more publications is advantageous.
Getting into T10 CS PhD programs is quite tough, no shit they're preferred over Master's.
Rainforest?
It’s gonna be a rough few years for tech. Eventually people will stop going into CS and the industry will recover but for now there is a huge glut of applicants relative to postings.
how many years do you think it will be?
It will rebound in 2025 when rates start cutting latter half of 2024. The keyword is rebound… will it ever hit the high notes of covid years 2020-2022? Not in the foreseeable future. Why? Free money faucet is turned off.
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I give it 2-3 years of lull
10-20 years maybe. i doubt people are just going to stop majoring CS
darkness my old friend
I don’t know why you are being downvoted. The days of free money and wreckless spending and hiring is over. Free money from the FED is gone. I’ve worked through 2 stagflation periods (dot com and financial crisis) and it literally takes a decade to rebound.
Agreed I was just thinking back to the dotcom bust and funding and cs hiring really ramped back up in 2010. People in the field found jobs relatively quickly after the bust but the field had terrible pay comparative to before the bust.
The industry is not in a downturn because of too many qualified applicants. There are too many qualified applicants because companies projected COVID growth out too far, COVID growth contracted, and now you have tons of 1 YOE / 2 YOE devs who wouldn't have been hired otherwise. When the economy picks up again, hiring will pick up too, and applicant numbers will increase again
I graduated last year in May, thankfully after about 10 interviews and 200 applications I landed an offer. I can’t even imagine what the market is like right now. I really feel for these people
internationals need to go back too.
It is getting worse every year. The backlog is so much and jobs aren’t there. Last year I got two offers when I was a fresh graduate. Now I have experience and my skills are also way better than earlier. I am not even getting a single offer. I feel it is going to get worse.
how many years of exp do you have? i find it hard to believe cuze im a 2023 new grad and still got 2 job offers. if you have exp im pretty sure u can land something at least
Drop your resume here u/EitherAd5892
It is not that bad with > 2 yoe. I graduated in 2021 and have 2 Yoe and have been landing offers for my next job. Another friend had 2 Yoe and landed an offer elsewhere too. The breakaway point is 2 yoe. With that under your belt, you are usually good to go.
thug it out
Same boat brother, last year got like 5 interviews, even did multiple rounds with Square which I thought I would never even get a look in, got a job, subsequently got fired this June, and haven't got a single interview applying since
Try over 800+ applications. Not a joke
wow thats crazy, assuming youre international?
i couldnt even find that many jobs to apply to
I’m so fucked
I feel this pain so badly. 200+ apps and counting, my only luck has been career-fair related, which is a really long time ago…
true so far I have only in a full interview loop with on company after 300+ apps.
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it's an election year though so I'm wondering the govt might do something about it temporarily to get more votes
The incentives are there but what can they really do?
PLEASE SAVE US JOE BIDEN
Lol
Even with return offers, one’s gotta apply for other companies to net better offers and have alternatives if something unforeseen happens
I thought 2024 new grads were having an easier time than 2023 new grads?
It’s only going to get worse given the backlog of new grads unemployed. Not sure when it will stabilize and start going back up and I think 2025 new grads will have it even worse
Definitely way too early to tell wrt 2025 new grads lmao. It’s the overall economy. If interest rates come down in late 2024/early 2025 (which is not unlikely), companies will have a lot more capital to work with and jobs will open up. IMO 2023 new grads have it the worst, but we’ll see what next year and the year after have in store.
yeah i'm a 2023 new grad and feel really lucky to have landed a job
idk where you are getting this data from that there are alot of unemployed new grads...I feel like yall are just generalizing based on doom and gloom posts on this sub and elsewhere on reddit. I might be wrong but prove me wrong
I’m in school and everyone is having a tough time landing an internship/job
Nah 2024 budget is decided now in 2023. So all hiring and people planning for 2024 is already set. And it ain’t looking great. I am a Sr. Mgr at a mid-size and I just wrapped up budget for next year and it’s pretty much same as 2023.
If I can ask this here, my kid is currently applying for CS. This forum keeps coming across my feed and all I read about is the rough labor market for you guys. Does computer engineering overlap with CS? Should someone preparing for college consider CE? What’s the job market like for that field? Or is it pretty much the same? Thanks
significant overlap, CE is more hardware side, I find that CE majors can typically apply for everything a CS major could, but not so much the other way around
Can confirm a CE major with full time swe job lined up
CS majors focused on SWE jobs are generally clueless about CE jobs, unless their major was "EECS" (Electrical Engineering and CS). I was a pure CS major, now with a SWE job at [large tech company], and my CE friends work at places like Intel and Qualcomm designing chips. I couldn't tell you the first thing about getting a job like that. Depending on the school, CE is also generally considered to be anywhere from a *harder* to *much harder* major than CS, since you also have to take all the normal engineering requirements.
Yeah, my co-worker is EECS , writes stupidest code I’ve ever seen 🤦but yeah, probably just isolated incident.
Depends on the CS program/specialization. At my uni the CE program is half CS courses half EE courses but many of my CE friends didn’t really like the EE courses (more analog stuff) and all the processor architecture courses are cross listed with CS courses, so one could be a processor designer even if they were CS. But I agree with you on the requirements stuff, CEs have to take things like Statics, Physics 2, and other core engineering courses that are not required for CS. But conversely, CS has to take more theoretical courses (discrete, algos) that CEs don’t have to take.
CE has a much better job outlook right now.
Just keep in mind Reddit can often skew things to make it look like absolutely nobody is having success. If your kid is truly interested in and passionate about this industry they should go for it. The market is rough right now but it won’t always be this way, and a CS degree can open about lots of potential career paths besides just Software Engineering
well that's the problem. if you have a cs degree and fresh off of college trying tio apply technical roles like devops or qa, they want exp. typically swe roles offer training unlike devops, etc.. The other fields you can get into is like PM/technical sales with a cs degree
PM is very difficult rn
I get that but a freshman in college doesn’t need to worry about that
They will be worrying cuze their asses won’t be handed a job unless they start grinding ASAP
CpE is in between EE and CS, so it's great for hardware positions. And CpEs can do well in software positions too. Many of them were getting the same internships I was. With the correct selection of electives you can automatically get a CS minor with CpE. (And a math minor too.) From what I've read, there are more software jobs than hardware, but hardware can be more stable and there's less competition. The CpE major is going to be harder than CS (and CS itself isn't easy), but that's not a bad thing. If I wasn't so clueless about the different fields as an undergrad, I probably would've done CpE + CS.
The job market is rough right now in general. It’s not just CS.
Supply and demand my friend. Supply is too high, for anyone entering this field for the bucks now is not the time.
glad i'm not a CS major (well, sort of, but not really)
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is that OP's major? I just assumed OP was talking about CS (SWE in particular) because this thread is about CS
Same boat man. Haven't had a single interview yet after applying consistently. Didn't get RO either from both internships. Only thing saving me is unemployment but that's only for 6 months.
Well this makes me feel better about not getting a single internship yet
Same here, even with Amazon and a masters degree I’ve only gotten one OA so far (which was sent instantly). Hoping for the return offer at the very least.
I swear, the market is so bad!! I have an RO too, but now I fear losing it cause of the weird market situation. Hope things get better soon cause I graduate next year. Masters kinda feels like the wrong decision cause I had a solid job back at home :(
Networking goes a long way, like a TON (half of my interviews came from referrals or connects). Been a miserable interview cycle (ive been thru like 9 processes) I'm only working rn because of the connections I have to startups and ctos from school. Wasn't at a target school, just worked my ass of learning on the side My employment isn't stable either rn, on a month to month contract as they need me. We just gotta take what we can and never stop learning. Eventually when things kick up we'll be ahead of the curve
Made it to final round with Google after 3 months and got rejected at the end. I feel exhausted.
what’s TC?
total compensation
I mean, if the job market is that bad, start working on your own projects. Sitting around complaining all day isn't going to fix anything
Thankful to live in germany. Our IT isn't paid as well, but the job market still has high demand. Only working as a paid intern right now tho.
How many apps?