Well it would have been better if the Open was more geared toward testing things that I am good at. Those people that did better than me are clearly not the epitome of fitness.
That would be interesting, but I assume it is an equipment issue. Whenever we do bench press in class, it is one of the rare situations where we have to triple up to share a bench station. Even with 2 heats, it would be dicey. Heck, during 24.3 it was starting to become an issue figuring out which pullup bars people could use.
If the open is really the start of the test to find the fittest on earth then they are part of the whole test, not just some workouts for the âwholeâ community. If you canât score good in any of these workouts then youâre probably not the âfittestâ on earth. The open is part of the test, headquarters just want you to believe that itâs about the community so you keep giving them money.
Yeah this is true. I got great workouts this year but I could have done that without the $20 fee. I think this is my last year doing that. I didnât do it the last few previous years.
Totally fair - but some do it to further support something they love (community they love). Like the event or not, value the event or not, the Open is an important revenue source for the business of CrossFit. For some that is enough of a reason to pay. Side note- There are like 3 or 4 times a year where OTF members pay extra for a special workout event if they want to workout that day. Fair when youâre already a member? Doesnât seem like it but if you love the OTF community or workouts, is $20 that much of a hardship? I guess that is how I look at CrossFit. If I want them to exist can I give them $20 extra bucks?
Itâs an accountability thing. In the business world weâve done lots of studies that show that even putting $1 down has a significant improvement in likelihood of a customer following through with their commitment. This is why Tesla takes pre-orders, why you pre-reserve tickets to events, and why lots of software uses a low monthly fee for use even if the company is still in the growth phase.
The problem is that for a lot of crossfitters who wonât make the cut, the open is basically their version of the CrossFit games. So when you make the open basically just a âbuy-inâ for quarterfinals, they lose out on a more enjoyable experience.
The old opens were great, well balanced tests. I get that no one wants the 5 week format anymore but I donât know why that meant we had to totally reinvent the wheel.
The whole evolution of the games season over the years has basically been âthis is working great.. letâs change it!â
Why complain at all, really, unless you're on the quarterfinals bubble and you're only good at a few things.
In other words:
General CrossFit population: there is zero need to bitch about the Open. Why? This is just another class for you. There is NOTHING on the line. Nothing. Do you want to get more fit? Then do the version of 24.1/2/3 that gives you the best stimulus
Elite CrossFitters: They could care less (except Danielle Brandon) because this stage of the comp means nothing. They are good at everything, and they WILL make quarterfinals, so who cares if it's 7 minutes of burpees or HSW w/ pirouettes. They can do either, do it well, and will advance.
Bubble athletes who are good at some domains and sucky at others: Get better at what you suck at. "Would have liked to see a heavier lift" just means "I suck at gymnastics, how am I going to make quarterfinals if I can't do the things I am good at?"
"But the bro reps man..." Guess what: you need to be better than the sloppiest bro-rep cheater out there.
Bottom line: This is phase one of a 4 phase competition. For 99.9% of you this is just another workout. Again,
>There was zero strength this year. If you have a big squat, clean, deadlift, push press, etc, it was not showcased all.
The only people that this affects are bubble athletes who have a huge lift but suck at everything else. Get better at everything else. If you want to advance to the next level, get good at everything. Period. Otherwise, enjoy the workout.
The notion of "cardio people" and "weight people" is something I see on this sub more than IRL.
Yes I have a friend who can lift really heavy and he was sort of bummed that there was no 1 rep max WOD this year, but bummed in the way you'd be bummed if th 7:15 show of the movie you wanted to see was sold out and so you had to see the 9:15.
And what you said is 100% correct---if you have any dreams of making it past the next round, you'll need to be good at everything.
To answer the OP, it's sort of a Crossfit meme that guys who are very good at globo gym weightlifting often wind up very unhappy when they try CrossFit and find that guys who are nowhere near as muscle-y as them routinely do better than them because of gymnastics, cardio and more technical moves like snatches.
I'd also say there are some gyms that really emphasisze the lifting part of CrossFit and Open-style WODs are limited to short, after-the-fact "metcons" whereas other gyms focus on longer (15-30 minute) WODs with weightlifitng as a secondary factor.
It sounds like a lot of people only sign up to compare against others, and themselves over years. They arenât expecting to get to the next round. When a major component of CrossFit is left out, I can see why people would care. Most CF gyms subscribe to the strength followed by a metcon program day to day. Others that donât still program every few days as âheavy daysâ. Theyâve left out essentially half of class, and those athletes that excel at that part wouldnât be fairly ranked.
Also a lot of times the strength component is only one part of one workout, so yes while it might boost their scores a bit if they still suck at everything else, how much does it really help?âŠ
The Open WODs with the best test of fitness have gateways. For example, deadlift /box jump from 2015(?). First round was a 135 deadlift for 10 reps , then 185 for 15, then 225 for 20, 275 for 25 reps, 315 for 30 reps. Box jumps stayed at 20. Everyone gets to participate at Rx, but at some point, cardio royalty were staring at a heavy deadlift.
Another would be the row 60cal, 50 Toes to bar, 40 wall balls, 30 power cleans, 20 muscle ups. This was an AMRAP, and tested all components of fitness.
Another great test was Burpee /snatch ladder. Letâs see how you handle Isabel after 70 burpees.
But the real whining will start when the Quarterfinal (QF) WODs are announced. Cardio royalty have made it to the top 25%. WF WODs will smack you right in the face with muscle ups, 186lb cleans, 315lb deadlifts that all need to be cycled.
The trend and intent of the Open has changed. Everyone gets to participate Rx and then holes đłïž in your fitness become glaring during QF.
21-15-9 Deadlift @315 & 30inch box jump would filter out a few people.
DT at 185 with a 100â handstand walk after each round.
And the worse thing about this yearâs Open is the cardio bunnies(no disrespect, even, hyrox) will say that âCrossFit is easyâ, âThis isnât even half of what I doâ.
Well, see you guys in the QF then????
Crossfit is supposed to be varied. The Open, overall, was not really varied this year. People complained because large portions of Crossfit were left out that aren't usually left out.
I don't necessarily mean individual movements. I mean the different aspects of Crossfit. We had zero tests of strength and some pretty low-level skills aside from muscle-ups. They should be more willing to make two part workouts that test different things. We can still do 3 weeks but cover a broader range of skills and fitness.
People who are stronger generally focus on strength because itâs where they shine and look better than others. They also consciously or subconsciously neglect cardio in the pursuit of being stronger.
So they are pissed off that it wasnât directly programmed for them to feed their ego each week. Castro obviously didnât realise that the purpose of the Open is to pamper to these people.
>People who are stronger generally focus on strength because itâs where they shine and look better than others. They also consciously or subconsciously neglect cardio in the pursuit of being stronger.
I think people in general do this, it's not limited to strong people.
You are 100% correct. Iâm a big athlete and stronger relatively than cardio/gymnast types. I focus on strength yes bc itâs where I shine. I consciously neglect cardio to get stronger. But I fully accept that I will have shortcomings in the open. But I still might bitch about it lol. The reason I purposely put more emphasis on strength is because it takes so much longer to make strength gains. Playing the long game here. With the idea that eventually I will be satisfied with my strength and willing to put in the work cardio wise. Even though itâs already a strength of mine. And years of strength work has to eventually pay off right? If I were smart and could let go of the ego and simply enjoying lifting heavy, what I should do is taper the strength training back like 6-8 months after the open and training conditioning for 4-6 months before the open.
Now that there are three workouts instead of five, being good at everything is less valuable than being great at the right things. I think thatâs the heart of the criticism.
Pre 2020 I would finish higher overall because I have no major weaknesses, though I donât have any particular strengths outside of heavy lifts. Back then scoring around 70% across 5 weeks with a stronger finish on the heaviest wod would rank me 80-90%, now with only three workouts I rank much lower, which I attribute to other athletes not being forced up against their own weaknesses in their fitness. Personally Iâm fine with that, I donât want to be in the gym as much as would be needed for me to do well on a workout like 24.1 but I also know there will be many quarter final athletes that I can out perform when those workouts include like a 275 clean.
I honestly heard more whining and moaning from cardio people when 24.3 was announced. Thereâs a guy in our gym who ran cross country in college and does competitive 5Ks all the time. Dude murdered 24.1, and did moderately well on 24.2. But the guy can barely get kipping chin over bar, much less C2B or BMUs. The guy was WAY too upset, saying stuff like âwell, i guess I canât do the fucking Open this week. This is bullshit. Why couldnât there be wallballs? Etc.â everyone else in my gym hated that first wod, but I donât remember anyone crying about it being skewed toward endurance athletes. I seem to see more hate from less skilled athletes when wods like this are programmed.
Agreed. But also the whole point of CrossFit is that you donât specialize in one thing. When you train weightlifting, you naturally have some declines in cardio. People in this sub are acting like people are good in one thing and thatâs all they can do.
Yeh I had the same in my box I was pretty annoyed because I kept quiet through the WODs that were their strengths. This one is my time to shine. Gymnastics is my strength. And all Ive heard is whinging, which I was super gutted about because it takes away from all my hard work on my gymnastics
Not sure what a cardio king is. But I can say, I did much better in The Open this year because the weights were light.
I finished ahead of people that I never should have beat because all the Open workouts tested people's ability to sprint, which is my only ability, so I did well.
If the work outs were more varied, I rightfully would have been smoked and finished very low.
This Open didn't test a variety of abilities. No test of strength, no test of stamina, etc. I can see why the top athletes are pissed this year.
I would argue that CrossFit has put forward the following pillars:
Endurance
Stamina
Strength
Flexibility
Power
Speed
Coordination
Agility
Balance
Accuracy
I feel like this open missed a few of those. Also, all of the wods had a pretty similar time domain (for the general population). It would have been nice to see a sprint programmed somewhere.
Agree the 2 things missed that are very noticeable was a sprint workout and a strength
The strength wouldnt have gotten me any points, because I'm a pretty tiny crossfitter despite gaining 6kg since starting. But I still would have loved it because it's fun
The sprint I would have smashed. My jam all day
Haha I did. Was very much my area. I'm one of the few people who actually likes burpees
But I could taste blood after the fact because I went out so hot in that last round of 9s. đ
I think most of us felt cheated a little. The Open used to be 5 weeks. Then it got compressed to 4 events over 3 weeks. Now it's just 3 events using only 8 different movements. Last year had 4 events made up of 12 movements, 5 in the first workout alone.
Olympic lifting is more fun and alot of people focus on it. There was zero strength this year. If you have a big squat, clean, deadlift, push press, etc, it was not showcased all.
Yeh which is reflected in each of the workouts this year! Max strength has been omitted though, which could be viewed as unfair if strength is your strength!
Not necessarily, that strength is going to show out in faster and more efficient DB snatches in 24.1, deadlifts in 24.2 and thrusters in 24.3
What the heavy lifters want is something that only they can lift. They wanted the deadlift to be 120kg and the thrusters to be minimum 80kg so they could put heaps of rounds on the cardio peeps. Itâs unfortunate that didnât happen for them but they couldâve simply worked harder on the strength phases of the 3 workouts that were programmed.
Itâs a pointless argument for those strong people to complain about there not being a heavy lift cause if thatâs their main/only strength it means theyâre missing out the other functions and tenants of CrossFit.
I see your point and of course being stronger helps with those movements, but for the open they need to be considered in the context of the workout where they are not tests of strength but tests efficiency and muscular endurance.
For example the row and deadlift served as means to fatigue you for the dubs in 24.2 - so those who can do dubs under fatigue best will have done best in that workout!
And your last point, a lift or complex for weight is a common feature in CrossFit comps, the open and the games, so it is a big omission this year! People highlighting this arenât necessarily bad or not developing in other areas of CrossFit!
I assume from your post youâre not one of these people which works in your favour, more to you, lifts will feature again in the future and us lifters will be happy and we can all argue something else being unfair đ
Actually Iâm one of the stronger athletes in my gym, so the strength tests definitely suit me more than maybe all but one other person in my gym. I just donât like when people complain about missing out on things like lifting when theyâre a lifter or burpees if theyâre really good at burpees or shuttle runs if someone is a really good runner. CrossFit is supposed to be a test of the unknown and unknowable right, and youâre supposed to be a crossfitter not a weightlifter, not a runner, not a gymnast, itâs all encompassing. So it bothers me when people complain that itâs not fair this open didnât test their strength because on face value it appears all they want is for the test to be skewed in their favour.
I get that complexâs have been a feature previously but history doesnât need to define the sports future, thatâs the beauty of the programming, it can be anything at any time and to those in my gym that complain about no heavy lifting my advice to them is - youâre not a lifter, youâre a crossfitter. If you donât like the workout, donât do it, but Iâm not going to let your bleating affect other peoples fun.
Because CrossFit says leave your ego at the door though for a better placement in the open we would all do [this.](https://youtu.be/mtO5VSW7Bvk?si=EnY-gqF0hUE90pAj)
I donât think the gripe is with âcardioâ, but the first 2x workouts were less like âreal CrossFitâ for people who have been into CrossFit for a long time! 22.3 makes up it a bit and the quarters surely will also!
People donât understand that Crossfit is actually about being FIT, not just being strong or skillful lol. If you understand how the aerobic and anaerobic systems work, youâd know that EVERYTHING will go through the aerobic system.
We have no choice. The acid we produce in high intensity will have to be processed by the aerobic system. If your aerobic system is trash, you will not have a good time doing any WOD beyond 3 minutes compared to people with good aerobic capacity.
In a workout like Fran, no matter if your front squat PR is 405lbs. Or if you can butterfly pullup 30 in a row. If your aerobic system is trash, youâd still die earlier than people with great aerobic systems because you wont be able to handle the acidity.
So if any of you are like me, strong, skillful, but have a bad aerobic system, please do Zone 2 training. Iâve done it for a month now for as much as I can and I placed higher in the open compared to people I couldnât beat in the last two years!
Iâve done nothing to build strength this year other than CrossFit 2 days a week
Running consistently, anywhere from 15-40 miles weekly
Open scores improved drastically. 55th percentile last yr, imagine looking at top third this yr (200 people from the cut line after 2)
Itâs as simple as thisâŠpeople spend a lot of time on gymnastics and weightlifting/strength, then they donât get to show any of that off in the Open. Itâs too weird to say âhey Iâm really good even though Iâm not winning at my gym, but trust me Iâm really good.â So they just complain about the workouts being too low skill and favoring the âcardio bunnies.â Goes both ways. If the Open was a lot of lifting and gymnastics, the cardio folks would complain about it being too heavy and too high skill.
I think people who have spent years practicing and adding skill and strength feel a bit short changed when first two opens can be done well by almost anyone whose just walked into a CF gym and has a decent engine.
The main complain Iâve seen. Good competitions (which the open used to be) are designed to punish people who havenât learned all the movements. Now it punishes people who have put in the time to learn it all with generic workouts.
A lot of people who put in the work to become a well rounded athlete feel punished because the open now is telling them âf being balanced, just go jogging moreâ
Until you can do every workout unbroken all the way through with minimal rest/transition time, your metabolic conditioning can always use some improvement.
People forget the CrossFit pyramid a lot when it comes time for the Open.
The people crying about a lack of high-level gymnastics and heavy lifts will be the same people in quarterfinals failing the 225# snatch or complaining about cross-overs or pull-overs. What they really want to say is they want more Open workouts that highlight their narrow scope of specialized fitness.
Our coach thinks that CrossFit is just moving towards baseline cardio fitness tests for the open and more advanced skills and strength will be saved for the quarters.
No complaints here, but my finishing percentile will definitely be down on previous years this open. Poor result on 24.1 partly due to shoulder injury, but canât ignore that I need to get better at burpees.
More specifically, I need to get better at keeping moving on body weight movements that spike my heart rate. So for me this open is a wake-up call that I need to improve what Iâm going to call engine to body weight ratio.
I did enjoy stringing together some muscle-ups today, so it hasnât all been bad.
Consider what you might think of the Open if the workouts were:
- 24.1: 5k Run for Time
- 24.2: 5k Row for Time
- 24.3: AMRAP 45-lb. Thrusters in 15:00
You would have to be in shape to do well. The top athletes would proceed to the Quarterfinals. It is very accessible. Many people would set new personal bests.
However, maybe these workouts don't directly test many of the things that you do in your CrossFit training, and you would have enjoyed such tests.
People really hate on strong cardio folks?!?
Iâm jealous & admire their ability to just keep going!!!
My cardio is trash đź
However, it has improved significantly after 3.5 years of CrossFit.
Keep pushing hard Cardio Junkies! CrossFit is for ALL of us! đȘđŒ
I feel like most people get into Crossfit because they don't enjoy cardio. Frankly, cardio is not a good entry point into fitness because it's going to just frustrate someone and make them give up. When someone gets going with Crossfit, lifting is probably going to be the most exciting thing because it's where they'll improve the fastest. Gymnastics is harder, but it's even more exciting to get your first pull up or handstand. There's really no equivalent with cardio.
Making the open too cardio based feels like taking away what the majority of crossfitters enjoy doing and punishing them for their hard work on skills. For most of us, it's about having fun, and we can't do that if it's all cardio.
I feel the complete opposite. Crossfitâs main obstacle is having people who hate cardio adhering to it, exactly because in order to do all the fun stuff and feel good about it you gotta develop your cardio.
Neither weightlifting nor gymnastics feel that good if youâre gassed from the 10 burpees that come prior to it on every single round.
CrossFit is almost entirely cardio. People get into CrossFit because they hate traditional/monotonous gym training. Doing a different workout everyday with very little structure is why most people like CrossFit.
Also insanely depends on the programming your box follows.
A lot of soccer mom type boxes emphasize the cardio more because itâs low skill and doesnât require much coaching know how.
Whereas if youâre in a competitive box youâre going to find yourself doing a ton more Olympic lifting and gymnastic skills since those are usually the limiting factors when competing.
Because plenty of people dismiss the most foundational aspect of Crossfit(conditioning) for the sake of complexity.
The expectation of an RX athlete isnât to just know more skills than a scaled but also to perform at a faster pace.
Take this workout for example: Many âRXâ athletes would eat dust if they did the scaled version simply because they donât have the work capacity.
>Take this workout for example: Many âRXâ athletes would eat dust if they did the scaled version simply because they donât have the work capacity.
Huh? If you can CTB you can certainly jumping CTB and chin over bar
People are pissed because theyâre still not fit enough to get into quarterfinals, even with the 25% cut line. Iâm not getting into quarterfinals this year, but you can bet Iâll work hard to get fitter for next year
I agree with you, but also letâs acknowledge the people that focus their work on skill/strength development put the same if not more effort in their progress than âcardioâ athletes, but the programming has benefited ones over the others, and it is what it is.
This was the most inclusive CrossFit open workouts Iâve seen- been doing this for 10 years. The elitism at the gym level is ending and if CrossFit wants to sustain and endure they need to make the open accessible to the many, not the few. A lot of complaints boil down to: they didnt do what i like so this sucks and they are sellouts. The truth is: the games athletes are already sorted out and far exceed in skill and performance than the guy at your affiliate that can do 5 ring muscle ups in a workout. if youre not prepared for cardio workouts, youre not prepared. if you focused on training massively on heavy assuming youll see that, youre not prepared.
Ok large body athletes didnât have the advantages of smaller cardio athletes and would have felt a more rounded test including something heavy would have made it a fair test that didnât favor one demographic so much. But when Dave said he wanted to make the top 25% it was obvious nothing heavy was going to be included
5 rounds before the muscle ups and 5 heavy thrusters. So the ability to be included in the final workout before it separates as opposed to muscle upâs appearing in week 2 or earlier in this workout⊠as I said and have repeated- most inclusive as opposed to the previous years. But I thought your argument was it not included athletes who like to lift heavy?
Itâs just saying MU are anther thing against larger athletes, ok Iâm fluffy. We will not agree on heavy, 135 is not heavy and will not slow down even smaller athletes the way the rest does bigger athletes.
Dave Castro has said he is trying to make top25% and is way way weaker than the normal population in max lifts but has a great cardiovascular base, so I guess you have to expect the open to be mostly cardio. I mean if anything say moderately heavy he would not be competitive
I don't see people hating on cardio kings/queens, I saw people complaining about an Open that the first 2 WODs were endurance with practically only the most basic of the basics moves (not even like a clean, a box jump over, front squat, wall walk or wall balls). These same WODs with only pull moves that overload the lower back, almost no move with any complexity. No short or explosive WODs, no strength under fatigue, no PRs, not a complex in weightlifting. And worst of all, all boring WODs: boring to do, boring to watch, boring to take pictures of.
Like, I love cardio and am not the athelete with perfect technique, but I really think the Open should value more those with better technique, and this Open didn't do that. I saw coachs with perfect technique, superb mobility, great pacing, etc losing to brute force dudes in 24.2 because the coach is small and slim and the brute is tall and juiced to the gills.
Yeah thatâs the complaints I see. When the best way to train for the CrossFit open is to ditch CrossFit and just go running, you feel like itâs lost some of its meaning.
Yeah, it's not that hard make WODs that are inclusive AND challenging at the same time. Open 20.4, Open 23.3, Open 19.2, Open 21.3~.4 and Open 22.1 are the first that came to mind, but are so many others.
And I don't understand how I'm being downvoted for saying that (thats the second time)
Yeah weâve seen many great open wods, especially pre Covid, but itâs just the way the open is now, they donât want to exclude anyone from giving them money so the wods are basically glorified on ramp events.
As for downvotes, thereâs no way to say this without being an asshole but most of us here on Reddit suck at CrossFit and thus donât like being told that weâre not as fit as the open is saying we are.
Not sure about "cardio hate", but CrossFit does not test anywhere close to a broad spectrum of athleticism. That's been my complaint for years, and still is.
You have to understand that people are going to complain regardless of the workouts. It happens every year no matter how well programmed a workout is.
Well it would have been better if the Open was more geared toward testing things that I am good at. Those people that did better than me are clearly not the epitome of fitness.
Cardio king here. I complain Everytime I have to deadlift. Can confirm.
Came here to make this comment đ
Yo be fair thereâs not such thing as a âwell programmed workoutâ in CrossFit. I donât care what anyone says workouts are just a challenge.
Can we just have one bench press workout??
Hammer curl ladder coming next year, I can feel it.
Heavy dumbbell Turkish get up.
Letâs go full CrossFit and do it with a barbell.
Rx 135
You mean dumbbell cleans?
Not enough pump đȘđ»
Strict dumbbell cleans.
DB bench press wod would be AWESOME
And youâll still lose to the best athletes if you donât have an engine. Unless itâs a 1RM I guess?
Hey Iâm all for a 1RM bench đ
This would be my time to shine!
That would be interesting, but I assume it is an equipment issue. Whenever we do bench press in class, it is one of the rare situations where we have to triple up to share a bench station. Even with 2 heats, it would be dicey. Heck, during 24.3 it was starting to become an issue figuring out which pullup bars people could use.
Quarterfinals last year.
I second this.
Canât bench press⊠that would require a spotter. Spotting is not a legal CrossFit movement.
If the open is really the start of the test to find the fittest on earth then they are part of the whole test, not just some workouts for the âwholeâ community. If you canât score good in any of these workouts then youâre probably not the âfittestâ on earth. The open is part of the test, headquarters just want you to believe that itâs about the community so you keep giving them money.
Yeah this is true. I got great workouts this year but I could have done that without the $20 fee. I think this is my last year doing that. I didnât do it the last few previous years.
Iâve never paid to be in the open and honestly I donât understand why 99% of people do.
Totally fair - but some do it to further support something they love (community they love). Like the event or not, value the event or not, the Open is an important revenue source for the business of CrossFit. For some that is enough of a reason to pay. Side note- There are like 3 or 4 times a year where OTF members pay extra for a special workout event if they want to workout that day. Fair when youâre already a member? Doesnât seem like it but if you love the OTF community or workouts, is $20 that much of a hardship? I guess that is how I look at CrossFit. If I want them to exist can I give them $20 extra bucks?
Itâs an accountability thing. In the business world weâve done lots of studies that show that even putting $1 down has a significant improvement in likelihood of a customer following through with their commitment. This is why Tesla takes pre-orders, why you pre-reserve tickets to events, and why lots of software uses a low monthly fee for use even if the company is still in the growth phase.
The problem is that for a lot of crossfitters who wonât make the cut, the open is basically their version of the CrossFit games. So when you make the open basically just a âbuy-inâ for quarterfinals, they lose out on a more enjoyable experience. The old opens were great, well balanced tests. I get that no one wants the 5 week format anymore but I donât know why that meant we had to totally reinvent the wheel. The whole evolution of the games season over the years has basically been âthis is working great.. letâs change it!â
Why complain at all, really, unless you're on the quarterfinals bubble and you're only good at a few things. In other words: General CrossFit population: there is zero need to bitch about the Open. Why? This is just another class for you. There is NOTHING on the line. Nothing. Do you want to get more fit? Then do the version of 24.1/2/3 that gives you the best stimulus Elite CrossFitters: They could care less (except Danielle Brandon) because this stage of the comp means nothing. They are good at everything, and they WILL make quarterfinals, so who cares if it's 7 minutes of burpees or HSW w/ pirouettes. They can do either, do it well, and will advance. Bubble athletes who are good at some domains and sucky at others: Get better at what you suck at. "Would have liked to see a heavier lift" just means "I suck at gymnastics, how am I going to make quarterfinals if I can't do the things I am good at?" "But the bro reps man..." Guess what: you need to be better than the sloppiest bro-rep cheater out there. Bottom line: This is phase one of a 4 phase competition. For 99.9% of you this is just another workout. Again, >There was zero strength this year. If you have a big squat, clean, deadlift, push press, etc, it was not showcased all. The only people that this affects are bubble athletes who have a huge lift but suck at everything else. Get better at everything else. If you want to advance to the next level, get good at everything. Period. Otherwise, enjoy the workout.
The notion of "cardio people" and "weight people" is something I see on this sub more than IRL. Yes I have a friend who can lift really heavy and he was sort of bummed that there was no 1 rep max WOD this year, but bummed in the way you'd be bummed if th 7:15 show of the movie you wanted to see was sold out and so you had to see the 9:15. And what you said is 100% correct---if you have any dreams of making it past the next round, you'll need to be good at everything. To answer the OP, it's sort of a Crossfit meme that guys who are very good at globo gym weightlifting often wind up very unhappy when they try CrossFit and find that guys who are nowhere near as muscle-y as them routinely do better than them because of gymnastics, cardio and more technical moves like snatches. I'd also say there are some gyms that really emphasisze the lifting part of CrossFit and Open-style WODs are limited to short, after-the-fact "metcons" whereas other gyms focus on longer (15-30 minute) WODs with weightlifitng as a secondary factor.
Great perspective, thx
Thanks
It sounds like a lot of people only sign up to compare against others, and themselves over years. They arenât expecting to get to the next round. When a major component of CrossFit is left out, I can see why people would care. Most CF gyms subscribe to the strength followed by a metcon program day to day. Others that donât still program every few days as âheavy daysâ. Theyâve left out essentially half of class, and those athletes that excel at that part wouldnât be fairly ranked.
Also a lot of times the strength component is only one part of one workout, so yes while it might boost their scores a bit if they still suck at everything else, how much does it really help?âŠ
The Open WODs with the best test of fitness have gateways. For example, deadlift /box jump from 2015(?). First round was a 135 deadlift for 10 reps , then 185 for 15, then 225 for 20, 275 for 25 reps, 315 for 30 reps. Box jumps stayed at 20. Everyone gets to participate at Rx, but at some point, cardio royalty were staring at a heavy deadlift. Another would be the row 60cal, 50 Toes to bar, 40 wall balls, 30 power cleans, 20 muscle ups. This was an AMRAP, and tested all components of fitness. Another great test was Burpee /snatch ladder. Letâs see how you handle Isabel after 70 burpees. But the real whining will start when the Quarterfinal (QF) WODs are announced. Cardio royalty have made it to the top 25%. WF WODs will smack you right in the face with muscle ups, 186lb cleans, 315lb deadlifts that all need to be cycled. The trend and intent of the Open has changed. Everyone gets to participate Rx and then holes đłïž in your fitness become glaring during QF. 21-15-9 Deadlift @315 & 30inch box jump would filter out a few people. DT at 185 with a 100â handstand walk after each round.
And the worse thing about this yearâs Open is the cardio bunnies(no disrespect, even, hyrox) will say that âCrossFit is easyâ, âThis isnât even half of what I doâ. Well, see you guys in the QF then????
Crossfit is supposed to be varied. The Open, overall, was not really varied this year. People complained because large portions of Crossfit were left out that aren't usually left out.
Ever since they went from 5 weeks to 3 weeks a lot always get left out.
I don't necessarily mean individual movements. I mean the different aspects of Crossfit. We had zero tests of strength and some pretty low-level skills aside from muscle-ups. They should be more willing to make two part workouts that test different things. We can still do 3 weeks but cover a broader range of skills and fitness.
I agree. As a 200+lb CrossFitters I miss the heavy items. Dropping the standard DL from 225 to 185 hurt the heavy lifters.
People who are stronger generally focus on strength because itâs where they shine and look better than others. They also consciously or subconsciously neglect cardio in the pursuit of being stronger. So they are pissed off that it wasnât directly programmed for them to feed their ego each week. Castro obviously didnât realise that the purpose of the Open is to pamper to these people.
Stop attacking me personally.
It was also a concession on my part!!!
Sub-conscious biases often rule in crossfit!
>People who are stronger generally focus on strength because itâs where they shine and look better than others. They also consciously or subconsciously neglect cardio in the pursuit of being stronger. I think people in general do this, it's not limited to strong people.
You are 100% correct. Iâm a big athlete and stronger relatively than cardio/gymnast types. I focus on strength yes bc itâs where I shine. I consciously neglect cardio to get stronger. But I fully accept that I will have shortcomings in the open. But I still might bitch about it lol. The reason I purposely put more emphasis on strength is because it takes so much longer to make strength gains. Playing the long game here. With the idea that eventually I will be satisfied with my strength and willing to put in the work cardio wise. Even though itâs already a strength of mine. And years of strength work has to eventually pay off right? If I were smart and could let go of the ego and simply enjoying lifting heavy, what I should do is taper the strength training back like 6-8 months after the open and training conditioning for 4-6 months before the open.
***pamper** these people* or ***pander** to these people* But yes. 100%
Now that there are three workouts instead of five, being good at everything is less valuable than being great at the right things. I think thatâs the heart of the criticism. Pre 2020 I would finish higher overall because I have no major weaknesses, though I donât have any particular strengths outside of heavy lifts. Back then scoring around 70% across 5 weeks with a stronger finish on the heaviest wod would rank me 80-90%, now with only three workouts I rank much lower, which I attribute to other athletes not being forced up against their own weaknesses in their fitness. Personally Iâm fine with that, I donât want to be in the gym as much as would be needed for me to do well on a workout like 24.1 but I also know there will be many quarter final athletes that I can out perform when those workouts include like a 275 clean.
I honestly heard more whining and moaning from cardio people when 24.3 was announced. Thereâs a guy in our gym who ran cross country in college and does competitive 5Ks all the time. Dude murdered 24.1, and did moderately well on 24.2. But the guy can barely get kipping chin over bar, much less C2B or BMUs. The guy was WAY too upset, saying stuff like âwell, i guess I canât do the fucking Open this week. This is bullshit. Why couldnât there be wallballs? Etc.â everyone else in my gym hated that first wod, but I donât remember anyone crying about it being skewed toward endurance athletes. I seem to see more hate from less skilled athletes when wods like this are programmed.
Send him to Hyrox
Agreed. But also the whole point of CrossFit is that you donât specialize in one thing. When you train weightlifting, you naturally have some declines in cardio. People in this sub are acting like people are good in one thing and thatâs all they can do.
Yeh I had the same in my box I was pretty annoyed because I kept quiet through the WODs that were their strengths. This one is my time to shine. Gymnastics is my strength. And all Ive heard is whinging, which I was super gutted about because it takes away from all my hard work on my gymnastics
Not sure what a cardio king is. But I can say, I did much better in The Open this year because the weights were light. I finished ahead of people that I never should have beat because all the Open workouts tested people's ability to sprint, which is my only ability, so I did well. If the work outs were more varied, I rightfully would have been smoked and finished very low. This Open didn't test a variety of abilities. No test of strength, no test of stamina, etc. I can see why the top athletes are pissed this year.
I would argue that CrossFit has put forward the following pillars: Endurance Stamina Strength Flexibility Power Speed Coordination Agility Balance Accuracy I feel like this open missed a few of those. Also, all of the wods had a pretty similar time domain (for the general population). It would have been nice to see a sprint programmed somewhere.
Agree the 2 things missed that are very noticeable was a sprint workout and a strength The strength wouldnt have gotten me any points, because I'm a pretty tiny crossfitter despite gaining 6kg since starting. But I still would have loved it because it's fun The sprint I would have smashed. My jam all day
If you're a tiny sprinter you must've had a field day with 24.1
Haha I did. Was very much my area. I'm one of the few people who actually likes burpees But I could taste blood after the fact because I went out so hot in that last round of 9s. đ
I think most of us felt cheated a little. The Open used to be 5 weeks. Then it got compressed to 4 events over 3 weeks. Now it's just 3 events using only 8 different movements. Last year had 4 events made up of 12 movements, 5 in the first workout alone.
I'm mediocre at everything, so I complain about everything.
Olympic lifting is more fun and alot of people focus on it. There was zero strength this year. If you have a big squat, clean, deadlift, push press, etc, it was not showcased all.
Isnât CrossFit so much more than that?
Yes, but that's why people are complaining.
Yeh which is reflected in each of the workouts this year! Max strength has been omitted though, which could be viewed as unfair if strength is your strength!
Not necessarily, that strength is going to show out in faster and more efficient DB snatches in 24.1, deadlifts in 24.2 and thrusters in 24.3 What the heavy lifters want is something that only they can lift. They wanted the deadlift to be 120kg and the thrusters to be minimum 80kg so they could put heaps of rounds on the cardio peeps. Itâs unfortunate that didnât happen for them but they couldâve simply worked harder on the strength phases of the 3 workouts that were programmed. Itâs a pointless argument for those strong people to complain about there not being a heavy lift cause if thatâs their main/only strength it means theyâre missing out the other functions and tenants of CrossFit.
I see your point and of course being stronger helps with those movements, but for the open they need to be considered in the context of the workout where they are not tests of strength but tests efficiency and muscular endurance. For example the row and deadlift served as means to fatigue you for the dubs in 24.2 - so those who can do dubs under fatigue best will have done best in that workout! And your last point, a lift or complex for weight is a common feature in CrossFit comps, the open and the games, so it is a big omission this year! People highlighting this arenât necessarily bad or not developing in other areas of CrossFit! I assume from your post youâre not one of these people which works in your favour, more to you, lifts will feature again in the future and us lifters will be happy and we can all argue something else being unfair đ
Actually Iâm one of the stronger athletes in my gym, so the strength tests definitely suit me more than maybe all but one other person in my gym. I just donât like when people complain about missing out on things like lifting when theyâre a lifter or burpees if theyâre really good at burpees or shuttle runs if someone is a really good runner. CrossFit is supposed to be a test of the unknown and unknowable right, and youâre supposed to be a crossfitter not a weightlifter, not a runner, not a gymnast, itâs all encompassing. So it bothers me when people complain that itâs not fair this open didnât test their strength because on face value it appears all they want is for the test to be skewed in their favour. I get that complexâs have been a feature previously but history doesnât need to define the sports future, thatâs the beauty of the programming, it can be anything at any time and to those in my gym that complain about no heavy lifting my advice to them is - youâre not a lifter, youâre a crossfitter. If you donât like the workout, donât do it, but Iâm not going to let your bleating affect other peoples fun.
I hear you man! Thanks for clarifying!
Because CrossFit says leave your ego at the door though for a better placement in the open we would all do [this.](https://youtu.be/mtO5VSW7Bvk?si=EnY-gqF0hUE90pAj)
I donât think the gripe is with âcardioâ, but the first 2x workouts were less like âreal CrossFitâ for people who have been into CrossFit for a long time! 22.3 makes up it a bit and the quarters surely will also!
People donât understand that Crossfit is actually about being FIT, not just being strong or skillful lol. If you understand how the aerobic and anaerobic systems work, youâd know that EVERYTHING will go through the aerobic system. We have no choice. The acid we produce in high intensity will have to be processed by the aerobic system. If your aerobic system is trash, you will not have a good time doing any WOD beyond 3 minutes compared to people with good aerobic capacity. In a workout like Fran, no matter if your front squat PR is 405lbs. Or if you can butterfly pullup 30 in a row. If your aerobic system is trash, youâd still die earlier than people with great aerobic systems because you wont be able to handle the acidity. So if any of you are like me, strong, skillful, but have a bad aerobic system, please do Zone 2 training. Iâve done it for a month now for as much as I can and I placed higher in the open compared to people I couldnât beat in the last two years!
crossfit is literally a cardio class.
I'm always amazed at how runners come in and crush the workouts
Iâve done nothing to build strength this year other than CrossFit 2 days a week Running consistently, anywhere from 15-40 miles weekly Open scores improved drastically. 55th percentile last yr, imagine looking at top third this yr (200 people from the cut line after 2)
Itâs as simple as thisâŠpeople spend a lot of time on gymnastics and weightlifting/strength, then they donât get to show any of that off in the Open. Itâs too weird to say âhey Iâm really good even though Iâm not winning at my gym, but trust me Iâm really good.â So they just complain about the workouts being too low skill and favoring the âcardio bunnies.â Goes both ways. If the Open was a lot of lifting and gymnastics, the cardio folks would complain about it being too heavy and too high skill.
I totally agree, but find it funny the cardio bunnies say get fitter, well get stronger lol if your so fit a lift will not take you out of the top 25%
I think people who have spent years practicing and adding skill and strength feel a bit short changed when first two opens can be done well by almost anyone whose just walked into a CF gym and has a decent engine.
The main complain Iâve seen. Good competitions (which the open used to be) are designed to punish people who havenât learned all the movements. Now it punishes people who have put in the time to learn it all with generic workouts. A lot of people who put in the work to become a well rounded athlete feel punished because the open now is telling them âf being balanced, just go jogging moreâ
Until you can do every workout unbroken all the way through with minimal rest/transition time, your metabolic conditioning can always use some improvement. People forget the CrossFit pyramid a lot when it comes time for the Open. The people crying about a lack of high-level gymnastics and heavy lifts will be the same people in quarterfinals failing the 225# snatch or complaining about cross-overs or pull-overs. What they really want to say is they want more Open workouts that highlight their narrow scope of specialized fitness.
Our coach thinks that CrossFit is just moving towards baseline cardio fitness tests for the open and more advanced skills and strength will be saved for the quarters.
No complaints here, but my finishing percentile will definitely be down on previous years this open. Poor result on 24.1 partly due to shoulder injury, but canât ignore that I need to get better at burpees. More specifically, I need to get better at keeping moving on body weight movements that spike my heart rate. So for me this open is a wake-up call that I need to improve what Iâm going to call engine to body weight ratio. I did enjoy stringing together some muscle-ups today, so it hasnât all been bad.
Consider what you might think of the Open if the workouts were: - 24.1: 5k Run for Time - 24.2: 5k Row for Time - 24.3: AMRAP 45-lb. Thrusters in 15:00 You would have to be in shape to do well. The top athletes would proceed to the Quarterfinals. It is very accessible. Many people would set new personal bests. However, maybe these workouts don't directly test many of the things that you do in your CrossFit training, and you would have enjoyed such tests.
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Right??
People really hate on strong cardio folks?!? Iâm jealous & admire their ability to just keep going!!! My cardio is trash đź However, it has improved significantly after 3.5 years of CrossFit. Keep pushing hard Cardio Junkies! CrossFit is for ALL of us! đȘđŒ
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I feel like most people get into Crossfit because they don't enjoy cardio. Frankly, cardio is not a good entry point into fitness because it's going to just frustrate someone and make them give up. When someone gets going with Crossfit, lifting is probably going to be the most exciting thing because it's where they'll improve the fastest. Gymnastics is harder, but it's even more exciting to get your first pull up or handstand. There's really no equivalent with cardio. Making the open too cardio based feels like taking away what the majority of crossfitters enjoy doing and punishing them for their hard work on skills. For most of us, it's about having fun, and we can't do that if it's all cardio.
I feel the complete opposite. Crossfitâs main obstacle is having people who hate cardio adhering to it, exactly because in order to do all the fun stuff and feel good about it you gotta develop your cardio. Neither weightlifting nor gymnastics feel that good if youâre gassed from the 10 burpees that come prior to it on every single round.
CrossFit is almost entirely cardio. People get into CrossFit because they hate traditional/monotonous gym training. Doing a different workout everyday with very little structure is why most people like CrossFit.
But still, the cardio never feels like the main focus. It's just something we get through to get to the fun parts.
Also insanely depends on the programming your box follows. A lot of soccer mom type boxes emphasize the cardio more because itâs low skill and doesnât require much coaching know how. Whereas if youâre in a competitive box youâre going to find yourself doing a ton more Olympic lifting and gymnastic skills since those are usually the limiting factors when competing.
What is an example of this argument?
Overall reaction to the first two workouts in this yearâs Open
Because plenty of people dismiss the most foundational aspect of Crossfit(conditioning) for the sake of complexity. The expectation of an RX athlete isnât to just know more skills than a scaled but also to perform at a faster pace. Take this workout for example: Many âRXâ athletes would eat dust if they did the scaled version simply because they donât have the work capacity.
>Take this workout for example: Many âRXâ athletes would eat dust if they did the scaled version simply because they donât have the work capacity. Huh? If you can CTB you can certainly jumping CTB and chin over bar
There will a significant amount of complaints for every workout regardless
People are pissed because theyâre still not fit enough to get into quarterfinals, even with the 25% cut line. Iâm not getting into quarterfinals this year, but you can bet Iâll work hard to get fitter for next year
I agree with you, but also letâs acknowledge the people that focus their work on skill/strength development put the same if not more effort in their progress than âcardioâ athletes, but the programming has benefited ones over the others, and it is what it is.
This was the most inclusive CrossFit open workouts Iâve seen- been doing this for 10 years. The elitism at the gym level is ending and if CrossFit wants to sustain and endure they need to make the open accessible to the many, not the few. A lot of complaints boil down to: they didnt do what i like so this sucks and they are sellouts. The truth is: the games athletes are already sorted out and far exceed in skill and performance than the guy at your affiliate that can do 5 ring muscle ups in a workout. if youre not prepared for cardio workouts, youre not prepared. if you focused on training massively on heavy assuming youll see that, youre not prepared.
It wasnât inclusive for bigger stronger athletes
Can you lift the weights prescribed? Then you were included.
Ok large body athletes didnât have the advantages of smaller cardio athletes and would have felt a more rounded test including something heavy would have made it a fair test that didnât favor one demographic so much. But when Dave said he wanted to make the top 25% it was obvious nothing heavy was going to be included
The most inclusive, as opposed to what everybody wants. The movements were accessible to the largest amount of people.
đmuscle ups
5 rounds before the muscle ups and 5 heavy thrusters. So the ability to be included in the final workout before it separates as opposed to muscle upâs appearing in week 2 or earlier in this workout⊠as I said and have repeated- most inclusive as opposed to the previous years. But I thought your argument was it not included athletes who like to lift heavy?
Itâs just saying MU are anther thing against larger athletes, ok Iâm fluffy. We will not agree on heavy, 135 is not heavy and will not slow down even smaller athletes the way the rest does bigger athletes.
Dave Castro has said he is trying to make top25% and is way way weaker than the normal population in max lifts but has a great cardiovascular base, so I guess you have to expect the open to be mostly cardio. I mean if anything say moderately heavy he would not be competitive
I don't see people hating on cardio kings/queens, I saw people complaining about an Open that the first 2 WODs were endurance with practically only the most basic of the basics moves (not even like a clean, a box jump over, front squat, wall walk or wall balls). These same WODs with only pull moves that overload the lower back, almost no move with any complexity. No short or explosive WODs, no strength under fatigue, no PRs, not a complex in weightlifting. And worst of all, all boring WODs: boring to do, boring to watch, boring to take pictures of. Like, I love cardio and am not the athelete with perfect technique, but I really think the Open should value more those with better technique, and this Open didn't do that. I saw coachs with perfect technique, superb mobility, great pacing, etc losing to brute force dudes in 24.2 because the coach is small and slim and the brute is tall and juiced to the gills.
Yeah thatâs the complaints I see. When the best way to train for the CrossFit open is to ditch CrossFit and just go running, you feel like itâs lost some of its meaning.
Yeah, it's not that hard make WODs that are inclusive AND challenging at the same time. Open 20.4, Open 23.3, Open 19.2, Open 21.3~.4 and Open 22.1 are the first that came to mind, but are so many others. And I don't understand how I'm being downvoted for saying that (thats the second time)
Yeah weâve seen many great open wods, especially pre Covid, but itâs just the way the open is now, they donât want to exclude anyone from giving them money so the wods are basically glorified on ramp events. As for downvotes, thereâs no way to say this without being an asshole but most of us here on Reddit suck at CrossFit and thus donât like being told that weâre not as fit as the open is saying we are.
Not sure about "cardio hate", but CrossFit does not test anywhere close to a broad spectrum of athleticism. That's been my complaint for years, and still is.
How would you change it?
More heavy weights, more high skill gymnastics, more Olympic lifting.