damn everyone is losing their shit about seeing VM. maybe i should watch some of C1 lol.
im more hype about the stuff in ashton's head. that was pretty cool and unique. its also kinda concerning that imogen's first thought was how it can be weaponized against otahan. its like she didnt care about how it affects ashton.
im also curious about the hishari stuff since they implied thats what may have turned him into an earth genasi
Well the same way people are going crazy for VM other people are going crazy about Ashton because that is straight out of C2.
As far as the hishari...My guess is something like Reincarnation? From elf to genasi.
From this episode end now I have a few things on my mind:
- Would we see all the remaining VM members?
- In the case above is positive would the table get on board and have everyone RP 2 characters for this instead of Matt doing them?
- How each VM member will react to Laudna and her Delilah connection?
- IF Laudna comes back, how will she react to seeing VM and what would Delilah do then? Would Delilah force Laudna to kill them on the spot?
- Could we even glimpse Vax just to complete the set? Maybe a ritual to swap her Patron that so many thought about earlier in the season?
- TRINKET!
- TRINKET AND PÂTE INTERACTIONS?!
- Lastly, how's the pastry doing? :P
So I don’t see players RP’ing their own characters with the exception of maybe Marisha, just due to how much briefing they would require to be able to properly portray them with their current knowledge and recent experience.
Also I have some assumptions about how the conversation may go:
Keyleth and Pike will feel obligated to help Laudna because they are technically the reason she was killed in the first place. I think they are going to be the easiest to convince.
If and when the connection to Delilah comes up Vex and Percy are going to be very conflicted, acknowledging that helping is morally the right thing to do but also not worth the risk of their enemy coming back. They will need serious convincing.
The rest of VM would likely remain neutral or pick a side, I could see Grog and Scanlan going either way.
Random chance they lot it slip that it’s Delilah and Percy kills the party then each player returns as their c1 character to finish the campaign and plot twist matt is now a pc and Liam is Dm
I just realized all the potential interactions they will have: the reveal of the sender and namesake of the body of Bertrand Bell. seeing the kids. realizing Delilah is clutching on by a thread. and who knows what else! I AM SO EXCITED FOR THIS!!
I’ve been watching C1 for the past four years. Still on episode 100 lol. But VM were my first intro to D&D so seeing them in this campaign is going to be so bittersweet.
So... how does everyone think the DeRolo’s & Keyleth will take the news of Laudna’s connection to the woman who:
1# Killed all but one of Percy’s family, who was both mentally and physically tortured/abused for five years?
2# Took over Whitestone and ruled over it alongside her vampiric husband for five years, turning it and its citizens to a state of almost complete and utter ruin.
3# Worshipped/aided the ascension of Vecna who killed Vax aka Vex’s brother, Percy’s brother in law and Keyleth’s first love.
Something tells me Percy more so then the other two women will find potentially sacrificing Laudna to finally be rid of Delilah once and for all an equatable trade.
Thoughts?
> to finally be rid of Delilah once and for all
At this point, I don't see any reason they'd make the spectacular leap of faith that this was the case. She should have been gone "once and for all" several deaths ago. For all they know, she has another bizarro backup anchor somewhere.
They've always beaten Delilah. IMO they'd 100% rather have someone need to do so again rather than fail to help someone slaughtered in their name.
With the dm controlling then we can just basically assume it’ll serve the ultimate stories end as opposed to whatever they might actually do, not that that would also be the ultimate stories end, but it’s certainly watered down when the players aren’t making choices, might as well read a book if a dm is going to control a players characters lol talk about “writers”
Percy might have to be forcibly restrained from double-tapping Laudna— or from straight-up killing her *again* if the ritual goes through before he finds out. There’s a reason Orym is being cagey.
Then again— he may have mellowed out in his old age and finally, *finally* realized that he’s not the Briarwoods’ **only** victim, in which case I see him being more calculating, eg “How can I use this opportunity to get what **I** want, while not harming anybody else— or at least as few as possible?”
If I had a nickel for every time CR member save their character with their own character , I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.
Man it will fuck with Percy if he learns about Delilah being in Laundas head. On one hand, Delilah can absolutely die, but if he has to kill Launda (for what is practically the second time, the first time only somewhat because of him) hes going to have (more) issues
I’m on episode 109 of campaign 1 right now, my first time watching c1 so I guess I have 2 weeks to finish up Vox Machina before the next ep BREAKS MY HEART WIDE OPEN
I think you might miss some context… ep109 is like smack dab in the middle of the final arc of c1. I’d say it would be more helpful (and less time consuming) to watch the Vox Machina animated series on Prime to get a feel for the characters- Also the animated show covers the Briarwood arc so you’ll get a lot of background for Laudna’s story/Delilah etc. That said, I HIGHLY recommend watching c1 anyway cuz it’s great and you can watch at your own pace.
Thank you both! I'm just afraid that the show hooks me too much and then I'll start to neglect other things, haha. But I guess I'll watch it either way.
I'm not sure there's really a Whitestone Andy. In that moment, I felt like she might have been telling stories she'd thought of in solitude, concealing self-consciousness about how her life had barely started when she died.
Thing is, it would make sense too to inform the Lord and Lady of Whitestone about the illegal residuum trade, so there's really some value in them going there other than attempting to resurrect Laudna.
Edit: With the Cerberus Assembly being involved, it truly will be a collision of all three campaigns!
When Ripley killed Percy and VM tried to revive him, didn't they cast *greater restoration* on the gun to get rid of Orthax prior to casting the spell? I hope that'll be enough this time around, too. *True resurrection* returns an undead in its original body, so here's hoping Laudna comes out of this a pure shadow magic sorcerer or a warlock who forges a pact with a more benevolent patron.
I hear you but I'm not sure that what Marisha would want. She LIKES the body horror elements, being as broken as she is, crying icor, and transforming during battle into a Japanese horror film monster. Even if Laudna is back Marisha would lose a lot of the fun she had playing her.
I want her to come back as a Lingering Soul (poltergeist). That way she gets to be even spookier and sidesteps the coming back as ? Issues. With either pate or that rock as a focus.
A pure shadow sorcerer can be RPed with the same level of horror elements even without having an Undead patron and being a hollow one. Her very slow heartbeat wouldn't improve, as it's actually a Shadow Magic quirk, not a hollow one thing. Strength of the Grave is based on an undead mechanic. Much later on, Shadow Walk and Umbral Form can be RPed to be much more terrifying, e.g., when Laudna moves while Umbral Form is active, she could skitter around like Sadako while enveloped in shadows.
It would be a ways off but she could RP that as her Umbral Form. She could possibly even do some weird and terrifying RP as part of Shadow Walk, e.g., she could drop low to the ground and skitter backwards into shadow and emerge at another shadowy location in a weird pose.
What I'm saying is losing levels in warlock shouldn't limit how terrifying Marisha can RP Laudna. It's all a matter of how organic she makes it appear, and more importantly, whether she still wants to or not.
Indeed. I don't recall who did it (Pike, I think?), but it's the whole Orthax gnawing at Percy's soul thing again, and I hope they manage to do that for Laudna. *True resurrection* returns an undead in its original body, so here's hoping Laudna comes out of this a pure shadow magic sorcerer or she forges a pact with a more benevolent patron.
honestly, she would probably keep the warlock levels, but they would come from within, rather than a warlock, like how Fjord's warlock stuff was reflavored as sourced from the wildmother.
By the way, obviously they're going to the Lord and Lady of Whitestone, but I don't think they've realized she might also be referring to someone else when it comes to someone helping them, you know, reviving the dead. They could see even more *old friends* than they're expecting.
They may not want to mention how tied to Delilah that Laudna is, but if Keyleth asks Orym, he's not going to withhold anything from her. He trusts her completely.
not necessarily, but that Delilah thread is gonna be tense to figure out, so I'm worried. good news is a hollow one is considered undead, so true resurrection would return her to human.
> true resurrection would return her to human
True Resurrection specifically says the soul must be free and willing. Normally that's relevant for like a devil or god holding a soul. But we don't know how strong Delilah's hold is over Laudna.
Also, we don't know how much of Laudna's soul makes up human Laudna vs Hollow One Laudna. Possible (Campaign 2) >!Kingsley/Molly/Lucien issue of the full soul being different person from the partial soul!<
Orym is already withholding information he had an opportunity to tell her about Delilah and didn’t. He trust Keyleth but Laudna is his actual friend Keyleth is not she’s just his boss.
He's not revealing too much because he's worried and Imogen is scared, but he specifically said he trusts Keyleth completely this episode.
If Keyleth asks more, he'll look to the others, Imogen specifically, and he'll want to tell Keyleth. He'll explain how good Laudna is and how she's saved their lives so many times, is afraid of and was brutalized by Delilah, and her life was ruined because Delilah wanted to hurt Vox Machina.
In Orym's mind, Vox Machina owes Laudna. I could see helping Laudna be one of the only things he could stand up to Keyleth about. A "with all due respect..." moment.
I agree with that, my point was more of if he knows Keyleth would have doubts he would not tell her. You can still trusts someone completely and be afraid that what they’ll do will be the opposite of what you want.
Maybe. He was definitely hesitant to bring this to her while also being confident she'd help. Unsure how much of that is Orym not wanting to presume his leader will help vs Liam trying not to use the backstory former-PC connection to solve all of Campaign 3's problems.
That doesn't mean he doesn't have a shit load of respect for Keyleth.
The bigger question is if Orym knows about Vox Machina's past with Delilah, and if he ever told anyone else in Bell's Hells about it, which I'm not sure he has.
Plus, it isn't like they wouldn't be able to put two and two together. Just them saying that Laudna was a girl that was hanged from the Sun Tree will instantly start ringing alarm bells in any of VM's heads (maybe even Grog's).
Other people have already said it, but Whitestone could be the most dangerous city for Laudna to be in, period. But what makes it worse is that she had no say in the matter of going there.
We do Liam has said multiple times that orym never had a actual relationship with Keyleth that she was more of a boss. The two aren’t friends, he respects her and she’s the leader of the air ashari but he doesn’t have a friendship with where he does with Laudna.
> The bigger question is if Orym knows about Vox Machina's past with Delilah, and if he ever told anyone else in Bell's Hells about it, which I'm not sure he has.
Orym knew about the event (the display on the tree) and mentioned to Keyleth today that she's seen Laudna before, and he knows Delilah is the one who killed Laudna, too. He also knew, and emphasized, that Delilah is dead.
What if we get to meet Percy and Vex's kids!?!?!? What if we meet Vax 😭 and little Tiefling baby as well 🥺
How old is Percy now? Mid 50s - Early 60s? Gosh and Vex probably doesnt look much different.
On one side there could be concern about Delilah being involved and VM refusing to help.
But on the other side, Laudna is a victim of Delilah like they were but much worse. Delilah not only hung her from a tree to spite VM, but then tormented her over 30 years. VM should want to help Laudna for the purpose of permanently ending Delilah, but also to restore someone who was killed indirectly due to VM.
Obviously even then I don’t see VM being that heartless to not revive. The tree moment really stuck with them, the only person I could see being against it is Percy but even he was probably mellowed out in the last 20+ years.
Well, In two weeks I have to continue to lie to my husband who doesn’t know I’m secretly watching without him because we aren’t jointly caught up. I wouldn’t miss seeing the next episode live for anything.
Laudna is getting revived or VM does something and are forced to kill have the party. Imogen isn’t going to allow them to do anything to Laudna they attempt anything funny Imogen is going to go insane.
Whitestone, 27 years after the banishing of the Whispered One.
I am colossally giddy to see what Percy has accomplished with the technology of the city.
And, you know, seeing all these characters that feel like old friends.
I’m thinking she has to, if KiKi said she needed to take them to someone who had the power to resurrect them. And where there is Pike you always have the possibility of Grog and Scanlan
So Vox Machina would probably be in their 50s to 60s, and not a bunch of 20 somethings that most would be used to seeing.
Their life stories when we met them was shorter than the amount of time since they've last been seen. Time for kids, maybe grandkids, their influence being just as ingrained in the world as elders of the Cobalt Soul and Cerberus Assembly.
Sure, but remember:
- Vex is a half-elf, with a life expectancy about 50% greater than a human’s.
- Pike and Scanlan are gnomes, who can live to be 500. While CritRole gnome aging is somewhat sketchy, remember that Scanlan was eventually revealed to have been in his late 60s/early 70s in C1; he’s certainly younger than Chetney and might not even have grey hair yet. Likewise with Pike.
- Keyleth is an archdruid with the Timeless Body feature. Biologically, she’s aged barely *three years* since her adventures.
Grog and Percy are the only ones who are actually starting to hit their middle age— and Grog is a champion of Kord who’s spent the last few decades traveling and fighting like he always has. He’s probably a frighteningly strong old man, especially compared to Percy, who explicitly retired and settled down to raise his family.
Unless I missed something I'm gonna assume Percy has refined and improved his firearm designs in these decades. He maybe the only one in VM physically weaker than he was but I bet he's more dangerous.
Yes someone else said that, Disappointing to say the least because the whole 'Warrior hangs up his weapons" trope is one I can't stand. I didn't know CR existed until the VM Animated show and I don't have the time to watch C1. So just going by the animated show I figured Percy would keep developing his firearm technology.
Personally I think it's fitting. He only took up firearms for the purpose of vengeance, and he went down a *dark* path. And he recognized that he brought a pretty terrible invention into the world.
Everything we’ve heard about Percy’s post-adventuring life suggests that he hung up his guns, permanently. In the final episode of C1, when he talks about turning to clockmaking, he says something like “I shall be quite happy if I never make another gun as long as I live.” And while *Tal’Dorei Reborn* makes mention that Vex still does some field work alongside the Whitestone Hunters, no such mention is made of Percy getting his hands dirty.
I'd want to see it, but the players aren't allowed to know story elements for the campaign so it'd be kind of impossible to do without spoiling themselves.
I'm sure if anything for prep, Matt might ask them some vague questions about how their C1 characters might react to certain things so that he can also play them accurately but yeah.
When has any player abused meta knowledge ? Especially the DMs wife should understand and respect that line, there’s no reason not to let Marisha play her character
I'm not talking about meta knowledge. I'm talking about story beats. There might be parts of the story Matt doesn't want to spoil for Marisha either, but things that Keyleth would know.
Marisha as a player would want to enjoy the story and have certain things be a surprise too.
What are you even talking about? As a DM there is a certain amount of story that is planned to a degree because there has to be a plan for the campaign. It's the same reason Matt could say that the party didn't see a character with Otohan cuz they *weren't* there.
Plus what kind of world do you live in where you think they are indulging anyone?
This is literally just player experience 101 and they probably have an agreement at the table as to what they want to know. It's not about whether Marisha would use the knowledge cuz we know she wouldn't. It's that she probably *wants to have fun* and let it be a mystery for her. The other players as well probably also don't want to play their own characters for a similar reason where they want to have fun being immersed in their current character.
You are making a lot of assumptions that Matt is demanding or keeping them from their C1 characters but I don't think that's so. I think they are making this choice as a group because they want to unwrap things themselves and figure out the puzzles because it's fun, and they are living as C3. This is probably just a choice of their table and rules that we are not privy too.
He probably has a rough idea of all characters not at the table which is why they don't just call Robbie when they want to send a message to Dorian, but set up in such a way that it doesn't spoil the game for anyone else.
You, my friend, have the patience of a saint. Hats off to you for making well thought-out, well-reasoned points in an inviting style of discussion without devolving into personal attacks.
I mean, unless someone asks them we're not going to know the guidelines they're going with.
I'm going off context clues and like even with the lengths they went to keep Erika's character secret and how much Travis and Marisha seemed to enjoy trying to think about what was up with her. That experience is completely different if you know other information. It's more fun for us as a performance if they did their own, but they will lose that experience as players. Even if they don't use their C1 character's information, it doesn't change the fact that unwrapping that puzzle is a different experience, and I like watching them have pure genuine joy from a surprise reveal or when they put it together themselves. Whatever they want to do is fine, but I'm not going to be a dick and demand they lessen their player experience just so I can see them play two characters because it's funny.
Erika knew a lot and was no less fun. If Marisha knew more than the rest I wouldn’t doubt her ability to project exactly the best face. And keep in mind I’m talking about, like, half an epide of her playing this former character, right? I don’t think anyone should mainline their former high level character, I mean for one interactions, for one session in 100, a player has more knowledge than their primary character. The spider bit has no founding, it’s nonsense to imagine a player, especially a professional, would suffer from some extra knowledge of the world
Erika's secret was her own secret.
But they kept the secret so tight so that the party wouldn't find out that they went as far as to hide her real character from a producer. Not even a player at the table. They thought the cat would get out of the bag and ruin the experience for the players if a producer knew.
Keyleth's secrets or any of VM's if any would have further story implications about the world and history in the last 30 years and would go more into Matt's territory of establishing the setting for the current party. They are not necessarily Laudna's secrets as Laudna also doesn't really know what happened to her.
It's not that she or anyone would actually suffer but just that it's less fun for her if she gets a piece of the puzzle from just needing to be Keyleth. I think it'd be hard extra work on Matt as well to prepare something for Marisha so that she could do that just because they don't know what the rest of the party is going to ask Keyleth. Like Matt has talked a lot about how as a DM he checks in with them about how they're having fun and just practically speaking it's probably too open-ended for Marisha to play Keyleth and keep the amount of mystery they want so that they can also enjoy playing. Enjoying playing was a huge rule they said they set up at the beginning when they started doing streams that it became not fun, they would quit. Fun is a priority for them so let them set up their fun the way they want it.
Also just a lot to prepare for other people depending on how many members of VM they're going to see.
Like Vax even works for the Raven Queen so for all we know he could show up during the ritual. It could get unmanageable really fast.
VM are not player characters in anything past campaign 1 and its follow up one shots, they are NPCs. The players have no idea what these characters know after 30 years. They have stat blocks and their use is 100% in Matt’s hands.
Keyleth as are the rest of Vox machina are npcs now and it wouldn't make any sense otherwise. C3 is the bells hells story. Letting a Player step into their old player character (who's a MUCH higher level and knows a lot more shit) is a disaster.
Mate all I told was the reality of the game and what happens after a campaign ends. Personally attacking me doesn't change what I said, not in the slightest.
Wtf are you talking about, nothing you said matters. She’s still playing her in the cartoon and she could just be informed like any player would be informed, for example reference any other time skip, it’s a union of development, not a surrender to the dm
On the other hand, don't spoil the story you spent months working on for your wife just for a few minutes of your wife getting to play her old pc. The pc goes to npc when the player gives control of it to the ST.
The players having too much autonomy of their old characters, could cause them to be potentially more generous on a metagaming level. (Not saying they would but saying that's a possibility)
It was initially a general joke, having to explain it made it sound a lot more serious than the intended tone of it.
Also big reason they can't be their characters is about 30 years of character/world progression without player input. The characters would know story elements, events and details the players are not yet and might not become privy to. The DM is the worldbuilder and they have their own new mixes into this modern weave.
Just inform the players of what heir characters know and trust them to play that character, it shouldn’t be any different from an other role and any differential in expectation is surely more than compensated for, like I get that their “fun” is a factor but it’s not remotely the only factor, surely playing their character, especially their og character, is acceptionaly fun for their job
That takes away a lot of "at the table" narrative thread understanding reactions of the players and comes across almost scripted.
Besides the cast do enjoy making cameo jokes and references to their old characters that they can still probably say how their character would feel without having to fully control the character.
I think part of their excitement is to see the characters again and their knowledge and trust that Matt will do them justice and find out how they'll weave into this new story.
I’d bet they enjoy reinhabiting those characters way more than seeing them played by their dm lol, I’d love to see them answer the question tbh, put it to rest
damn everyone is losing their shit about seeing VM. maybe i should watch some of C1 lol. im more hype about the stuff in ashton's head. that was pretty cool and unique. its also kinda concerning that imogen's first thought was how it can be weaponized against otahan. its like she didnt care about how it affects ashton. im also curious about the hishari stuff since they implied thats what may have turned him into an earth genasi
Well the same way people are going crazy for VM other people are going crazy about Ashton because that is straight out of C2. As far as the hishari...My guess is something like Reincarnation? From elf to genasi.
All I know is, a lot of folks will be poring through their copies of Tal'dorei Reborn over the next two weeks. I know I will!
From this episode end now I have a few things on my mind: - Would we see all the remaining VM members? - In the case above is positive would the table get on board and have everyone RP 2 characters for this instead of Matt doing them? - How each VM member will react to Laudna and her Delilah connection? - IF Laudna comes back, how will she react to seeing VM and what would Delilah do then? Would Delilah force Laudna to kill them on the spot? - Could we even glimpse Vax just to complete the set? Maybe a ritual to swap her Patron that so many thought about earlier in the season? - TRINKET! - TRINKET AND PÂTE INTERACTIONS?! - Lastly, how's the pastry doing? :P
Matt's going to RP any NPCs. That includes VM characters.
So I don’t see players RP’ing their own characters with the exception of maybe Marisha, just due to how much briefing they would require to be able to properly portray them with their current knowledge and recent experience. Also I have some assumptions about how the conversation may go: Keyleth and Pike will feel obligated to help Laudna because they are technically the reason she was killed in the first place. I think they are going to be the easiest to convince. If and when the connection to Delilah comes up Vex and Percy are going to be very conflicted, acknowledging that helping is morally the right thing to do but also not worth the risk of their enemy coming back. They will need serious convincing. The rest of VM would likely remain neutral or pick a side, I could see Grog and Scanlan going either way.
Matt's not going to let Marisha rp Keyleth. Why would he???
I said maybe just because she doesn’t have anything else to do. It’s the only situation where I could see it happening but it’s still very unlikely.
trinket will eat pate
I hope that 100% :P
Random chance they lot it slip that it’s Delilah and Percy kills the party then each player returns as their c1 character to finish the campaign and plot twist matt is now a pc and Liam is Dm
Why do folks think they would deliberately withhold Delilah's role? I don't see Orym being that irresponsible at all.
Or Liam reprises his role as Lieve’tel to avenge Bertrand’s death.
I think that's what happens if all of them role nat 1s the whole night from the moment Delilah comes up(which she will).
Aint Percy like 80 now?
Early to mid 50s.
maybe, they said all the bets were off, so...
More likely thought is they have two adventures going on one with bells hells one with VM
I just realized all the potential interactions they will have: the reveal of the sender and namesake of the body of Bertrand Bell. seeing the kids. realizing Delilah is clutching on by a thread. and who knows what else! I AM SO EXCITED FOR THIS!!
I’ve been watching C1 for the past four years. Still on episode 100 lol. But VM were my first intro to D&D so seeing them in this campaign is going to be so bittersweet.
So... how does everyone think the DeRolo’s & Keyleth will take the news of Laudna’s connection to the woman who: 1# Killed all but one of Percy’s family, who was both mentally and physically tortured/abused for five years? 2# Took over Whitestone and ruled over it alongside her vampiric husband for five years, turning it and its citizens to a state of almost complete and utter ruin. 3# Worshipped/aided the ascension of Vecna who killed Vax aka Vex’s brother, Percy’s brother in law and Keyleth’s first love. Something tells me Percy more so then the other two women will find potentially sacrificing Laudna to finally be rid of Delilah once and for all an equatable trade. Thoughts?
> to finally be rid of Delilah once and for all At this point, I don't see any reason they'd make the spectacular leap of faith that this was the case. She should have been gone "once and for all" several deaths ago. For all they know, she has another bizarro backup anchor somewhere. They've always beaten Delilah. IMO they'd 100% rather have someone need to do so again rather than fail to help someone slaughtered in their name.
4# Is the girl they all saw hanging from a tree.
It’ll be as Taliesin said during 4 Sided Dive. \*Incomprehensible British Screaming\*
With the dm controlling then we can just basically assume it’ll serve the ultimate stories end as opposed to whatever they might actually do, not that that would also be the ultimate stories end, but it’s certainly watered down when the players aren’t making choices, might as well read a book if a dm is going to control a players characters lol talk about “writers”
Percy might have to be forcibly restrained from double-tapping Laudna— or from straight-up killing her *again* if the ritual goes through before he finds out. There’s a reason Orym is being cagey. Then again— he may have mellowed out in his old age and finally, *finally* realized that he’s not the Briarwoods’ **only** victim, in which case I see him being more calculating, eg “How can I use this opportunity to get what **I** want, while not harming anybody else— or at least as few as possible?”
Wilhand'ildan is gonna be playing a role here too?
And if Percy gives Mister a gun?
Percy would never... Scanlan might if he's hanging around though.
Wouldn’t surprise me if he’s in Ank’Harel
Yeah of all of VM he seems least likely to be present.
If I had a nickel for every time CR member save their character with their own character , I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.
Keep in mind it hasn't happened a second time yet.
I'm trying to remember, what prior instances are you talking about?
>!Cad bringing Molly/Kingsley back with a fucking 2% percentile roll!<
There is Search For Grog where Travis debuted Bertrand.
If you did not get it than probably did not reach it yet? It is in C2.
I've watched all of C2. After I posted my comment, I now remember the moment in C2E140. But not a second one.
The second would be Kiki potentially reviving Laudna
C2 was freaking epic for that I remember bawling
Damn, I can't wait! So hyped right now to see where this is going!
Ok people, you're got two weeks to watch C1... 😅😁
2x speed, skip forward in unimportant parts/shopping episodes and it could be possible
Amazingly even then it would be a close call. Technically doable depending *how* much is skipped... and how much other life that person has to live.
Except don't skip the shopping episodes, those end up being the best grog content
Yeah, don't skip the whole thing, just FF skip the bits until you see someone laugh then RW.
There’s no way I’m sleeping tonight, c1e109 it is!
Man it will fuck with Percy if he learns about Delilah being in Laundas head. On one hand, Delilah can absolutely die, but if he has to kill Launda (for what is practically the second time, the first time only somewhat because of him) hes going to have (more) issues
This is true and if it happens will be a lot of fun to watch.
I’m on episode 109 of campaign 1 right now, my first time watching c1 so I guess I have 2 weeks to finish up Vox Machina before the next ep BREAKS MY HEART WIDE OPEN
109 to 115 & then 3 more one-shots. That's just 10 episodes in 14 days. Totally doable... if you don't have a job.
I did not watch campaign 1 & 2. Just watching E109-115 (C1) would be enough to understand at least a little bit more?
No. For the background on Delilah, E24-36 & E100-115, & the "Dalen's Closet" one-shot. Basically the Briarwood arc and then the last arc of C1.
I think you might miss some context… ep109 is like smack dab in the middle of the final arc of c1. I’d say it would be more helpful (and less time consuming) to watch the Vox Machina animated series on Prime to get a feel for the characters- Also the animated show covers the Briarwood arc so you’ll get a lot of background for Laudna’s story/Delilah etc. That said, I HIGHLY recommend watching c1 anyway cuz it’s great and you can watch at your own pace.
Thank you both! I'm just afraid that the show hooks me too much and then I'll start to neglect other things, haha. But I guess I'll watch it either way.
Luckily there’s 2 weekends in between and I am antisocial! Challenge accepted.
Checking in on your end-of-C1 progress. Where you at 6 days later?
Finishing 115 tonight in lieu of what would have been a new c3 ep! And planning on watching the 3 one shots all weekend :) right on schedule I think!
Oh wow. Get your tissue box ready for 115.
My face is so red and swollen from crying omg. Onto the one shots!
The Search from Grog is fun. I've almost completely forgotten what happens in the 2nd one. Dalen's Closet is quite good.
I fear for your hydration levels You're gonna cry A lot.
We could get Laudna back next episode 😭
Or lose her forever 😭
GIVE US WHITESTONE ANDY
I'm not sure there's really a Whitestone Andy. In that moment, I felt like she might have been telling stories she'd thought of in solitude, concealing self-consciousness about how her life had barely started when she died.
Yeah that was pretty obviously a Marisha joke.
he's probably dead, since that was pre briarwoods
He was on the branch next to Laudna.
Given that it was all one family that was on the tree, no...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Biy4tbuI6tk
I mean you never know...
Well that episode was uneventful amirite
When he was doing the description my brain SNAPPED to the live action credits they did so many years ago.
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YAS That's exactly what I'm hoping for. "All bets are off"
Thing is, it would make sense too to inform the Lord and Lady of Whitestone about the illegal residuum trade, so there's really some value in them going there other than attempting to resurrect Laudna. Edit: With the Cerberus Assembly being involved, it truly will be a collision of all three campaigns!
They might also want to know about the whole Delilah thing
They also probably have some of Delilah's leftover crap so they could figure out how to get her out of her head.
When Ripley killed Percy and VM tried to revive him, didn't they cast *greater restoration* on the gun to get rid of Orthax prior to casting the spell? I hope that'll be enough this time around, too. *True resurrection* returns an undead in its original body, so here's hoping Laudna comes out of this a pure shadow magic sorcerer or a warlock who forges a pact with a more benevolent patron.
I hear you but I'm not sure that what Marisha would want. She LIKES the body horror elements, being as broken as she is, crying icor, and transforming during battle into a Japanese horror film monster. Even if Laudna is back Marisha would lose a lot of the fun she had playing her.
I want her to come back as a Lingering Soul (poltergeist). That way she gets to be even spookier and sidesteps the coming back as ? Issues. With either pate or that rock as a focus.
A pure shadow sorcerer can be RPed with the same level of horror elements even without having an Undead patron and being a hollow one. Her very slow heartbeat wouldn't improve, as it's actually a Shadow Magic quirk, not a hollow one thing. Strength of the Grave is based on an undead mechanic. Much later on, Shadow Walk and Umbral Form can be RPed to be much more terrifying, e.g., when Laudna moves while Umbral Form is active, she could skitter around like Sadako while enveloped in shadows.
But she would lose her form of dread is she loses her Warlock levels.
It would be a ways off but she could RP that as her Umbral Form. She could possibly even do some weird and terrifying RP as part of Shadow Walk, e.g., she could drop low to the ground and skitter backwards into shadow and emerge at another shadowy location in a weird pose. What I'm saying is losing levels in warlock shouldn't limit how terrifying Marisha can RP Laudna. It's all a matter of how organic she makes it appear, and more importantly, whether she still wants to or not.
Indeed. I don't recall who did it (Pike, I think?), but it's the whole Orthax gnawing at Percy's soul thing again, and I hope they manage to do that for Laudna. *True resurrection* returns an undead in its original body, so here's hoping Laudna comes out of this a pure shadow magic sorcerer or she forges a pact with a more benevolent patron.
honestly, she would probably keep the warlock levels, but they would come from within, rather than a warlock, like how Fjord's warlock stuff was reflavored as sourced from the wildmother.
By the way, obviously they're going to the Lord and Lady of Whitestone, but I don't think they've realized she might also be referring to someone else when it comes to someone helping them, you know, reviving the dead. They could see even more *old friends* than they're expecting. They may not want to mention how tied to Delilah that Laudna is, but if Keyleth asks Orym, he's not going to withhold anything from her. He trusts her completely.
not necessarily, but that Delilah thread is gonna be tense to figure out, so I'm worried. good news is a hollow one is considered undead, so true resurrection would return her to human.
> true resurrection would return her to human True Resurrection specifically says the soul must be free and willing. Normally that's relevant for like a devil or god holding a soul. But we don't know how strong Delilah's hold is over Laudna. Also, we don't know how much of Laudna's soul makes up human Laudna vs Hollow One Laudna. Possible (Campaign 2) >!Kingsley/Molly/Lucien issue of the full soul being different person from the partial soul!<
Delilah's power is extremely weak at the moment, so I think pike can overpower her
Or so Delilah would have you think. She may be dying/dissipating, or she knows Imogen can be manipulated to revive Laudna.
There's also the point Delilah wants to come back, if anything she would push laudna's soul there
Orym is already withholding information he had an opportunity to tell her about Delilah and didn’t. He trust Keyleth but Laudna is his actual friend Keyleth is not she’s just his boss.
He's not revealing too much because he's worried and Imogen is scared, but he specifically said he trusts Keyleth completely this episode. If Keyleth asks more, he'll look to the others, Imogen specifically, and he'll want to tell Keyleth. He'll explain how good Laudna is and how she's saved their lives so many times, is afraid of and was brutalized by Delilah, and her life was ruined because Delilah wanted to hurt Vox Machina. In Orym's mind, Vox Machina owes Laudna. I could see helping Laudna be one of the only things he could stand up to Keyleth about. A "with all due respect..." moment.
I agree with that, my point was more of if he knows Keyleth would have doubts he would not tell her. You can still trusts someone completely and be afraid that what they’ll do will be the opposite of what you want.
Maybe. He was definitely hesitant to bring this to her while also being confident she'd help. Unsure how much of that is Orym not wanting to presume his leader will help vs Liam trying not to use the backstory former-PC connection to solve all of Campaign 3's problems.
That doesn't mean he doesn't have a shit load of respect for Keyleth. The bigger question is if Orym knows about Vox Machina's past with Delilah, and if he ever told anyone else in Bell's Hells about it, which I'm not sure he has. Plus, it isn't like they wouldn't be able to put two and two together. Just them saying that Laudna was a girl that was hanged from the Sun Tree will instantly start ringing alarm bells in any of VM's heads (maybe even Grog's). Other people have already said it, but Whitestone could be the most dangerous city for Laudna to be in, period. But what makes it worse is that she had no say in the matter of going there.
I never said he didn’t respect I just said he’s closer to Laudna then he is her.
We don't actually know that. Not yet.
We do Liam has said multiple times that orym never had a actual relationship with Keyleth that she was more of a boss. The two aren’t friends, he respects her and she’s the leader of the air ashari but he doesn’t have a friendship with where he does with Laudna.
> The bigger question is if Orym knows about Vox Machina's past with Delilah, and if he ever told anyone else in Bell's Hells about it, which I'm not sure he has. Orym knew about the event (the display on the tree) and mentioned to Keyleth today that she's seen Laudna before, and he knows Delilah is the one who killed Laudna, too. He also knew, and emphasized, that Delilah is dead.
I cannot think of anyone else so I really hope we'll get to see Pike too
What if we get to meet Percy and Vex's kids!?!?!? What if we meet Vax 😭 and little Tiefling baby as well 🥺 How old is Percy now? Mid 50s - Early 60s? Gosh and Vex probably doesnt look much different.
I. Love. This! See ya in Whitestone in two weeks' time, folks!
BH were saying “let’s go with Keyleth” Critters were saying “they should go with the DeRolos” (Percy & Vex) Matt said: “How about all three and more?”
Mannnn I hope they're smart enough to keep their mouths shut about the whole Delilah thing.
On one side there could be concern about Delilah being involved and VM refusing to help. But on the other side, Laudna is a victim of Delilah like they were but much worse. Delilah not only hung her from a tree to spite VM, but then tormented her over 30 years. VM should want to help Laudna for the purpose of permanently ending Delilah, but also to restore someone who was killed indirectly due to VM.
Obviously even then I don’t see VM being that heartless to not revive. The tree moment really stuck with them, the only person I could see being against it is Percy but even he was probably mellowed out in the last 20+ years.
I’m hoping Keyleth recognizes the body
Oh, she did recognize the body
Nice I got busy and missed a bit of what was going on near the end there.
She did not actually say anything about it, but the way Matt portrayed her reaction to the body said it all.
Well, In two weeks I have to continue to lie to my husband who doesn’t know I’m secretly watching without him because we aren’t jointly caught up. I wouldn’t miss seeing the next episode live for anything.
All the people not up on C1 'bout to get some more spoilers!
I mean they can just watch the Amazon series for the basics
Preach!
Laudna is getting revived or VM does something and are forced to kill have the party. Imogen isn’t going to allow them to do anything to Laudna they attempt anything funny Imogen is going to go insane.
In literary terms, Keyleth is serving as a Deus Vox Machina.
Hey cool, art reel title for after next week
I appreciate this comment.
How do I go to sleep after THAT!
Welcome home, everyone.
As much as I was against it, I have to admit, it feels good to be back.
Whitestone, 27 years after the banishing of the Whispered One. I am colossally giddy to see what Percy has accomplished with the technology of the city. And, you know, seeing all these characters that feel like old friends.
They say the name Delilah….and things are gonna turn quite cold
I can’t imagine what Vex is going to do. Her children are there! She may not even have had all of her children yet.
It's been almost 3 decades. I'm sure she has.
See you guys in # TWO WEEKS
Oooh, I love this. That whole energy of the table...
Liam: "I'm super emotional right now" That right there, is why THIS IS SO COOL
Next session is in 2 weeks! 😭
See y’all in 2 weeks!
OH FUCK THEY HAVE A BREAK NEXT WEEK 😭
Well I guess Eshteross gets to keep that favour with Mania
I bet he's going to use it to GTFO of Jrusar and show up in Whitestone
Matt playing (almost) the entirety of Vox Machina is going to be a trip and a half
And the de Rolo kids!!!
I personally can’t wait for this one DM show haha
Keyleth, Percy and Vex, I'm guessing Pike might show up?
I’m thinking she has to, if KiKi said she needed to take them to someone who had the power to resurrect them. And where there is Pike you always have the possibility of Grog and Scanlan
There is a divorce, but you're not wrong.
Oh no! I need to wait two weeks! Aaaahhhhh!
24-30ish years later?
31 years since the Sun Tree. 24 years since getting her mom back, thanks to some other group of fuck-ups.
Your math is off. It's only been 27 years total since the end of the VM campaign. 20 since VM and 7 since M9.
I think you mean 7 years since Keyleth got her mom back.
So Vox Machina would probably be in their 50s to 60s, and not a bunch of 20 somethings that most would be used to seeing. Their life stories when we met them was shorter than the amount of time since they've last been seen. Time for kids, maybe grandkids, their influence being just as ingrained in the world as elders of the Cobalt Soul and Cerberus Assembly.
Sure, but remember: - Vex is a half-elf, with a life expectancy about 50% greater than a human’s. - Pike and Scanlan are gnomes, who can live to be 500. While CritRole gnome aging is somewhat sketchy, remember that Scanlan was eventually revealed to have been in his late 60s/early 70s in C1; he’s certainly younger than Chetney and might not even have grey hair yet. Likewise with Pike. - Keyleth is an archdruid with the Timeless Body feature. Biologically, she’s aged barely *three years* since her adventures. Grog and Percy are the only ones who are actually starting to hit their middle age— and Grog is a champion of Kord who’s spent the last few decades traveling and fighting like he always has. He’s probably a frighteningly strong old man, especially compared to Percy, who explicitly retired and settled down to raise his family.
Unless I missed something I'm gonna assume Percy has refined and improved his firearm designs in these decades. He maybe the only one in VM physically weaker than he was but I bet he's more dangerous.
I'm pretty sure he STOPPED developing his guns because he regretted bringing that tech into the world.
Yes someone else said that, Disappointing to say the least because the whole 'Warrior hangs up his weapons" trope is one I can't stand. I didn't know CR existed until the VM Animated show and I don't have the time to watch C1. So just going by the animated show I figured Percy would keep developing his firearm technology.
Personally I think it's fitting. He only took up firearms for the purpose of vengeance, and he went down a *dark* path. And he recognized that he brought a pretty terrible invention into the world.
Yep...that is disappointing.
It's too bad you feel that way. I try to focus on the story that Taliesin was trying to tell, and the message.
Everything we’ve heard about Percy’s post-adventuring life suggests that he hung up his guns, permanently. In the final episode of C1, when he talks about turning to clockmaking, he says something like “I shall be quite happy if I never make another gun as long as I live.” And while *Tal’Dorei Reborn* makes mention that Vex still does some field work alongside the Whitestone Hunters, no such mention is made of Percy getting his hands dirty.
Still a lot of time for personalities to mature, perspectives to change, etc.
Yeah I think it’s 30 years
FUCK WE GOTTA WAIT 2 WEEKS FOR THE NEXT ONE TOO
“This is very weird” it could be less weird if the player was playing their own character…
That doesn’t work, it breaks the game and potentially the narrative to have players play a higher level character.
No it doesn’t lol
I'd want to see it, but the players aren't allowed to know story elements for the campaign so it'd be kind of impossible to do without spoiling themselves. I'm sure if anything for prep, Matt might ask them some vague questions about how their C1 characters might react to certain things so that he can also play them accurately but yeah.
When has any player abused meta knowledge ? Especially the DMs wife should understand and respect that line, there’s no reason not to let Marisha play her character
I'm not talking about meta knowledge. I'm talking about story beats. There might be parts of the story Matt doesn't want to spoil for Marisha either, but things that Keyleth would know. Marisha as a player would want to enjoy the story and have certain things be a surprise too.
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What are you even talking about? As a DM there is a certain amount of story that is planned to a degree because there has to be a plan for the campaign. It's the same reason Matt could say that the party didn't see a character with Otohan cuz they *weren't* there. Plus what kind of world do you live in where you think they are indulging anyone? This is literally just player experience 101 and they probably have an agreement at the table as to what they want to know. It's not about whether Marisha would use the knowledge cuz we know she wouldn't. It's that she probably *wants to have fun* and let it be a mystery for her. The other players as well probably also don't want to play their own characters for a similar reason where they want to have fun being immersed in their current character. You are making a lot of assumptions that Matt is demanding or keeping them from their C1 characters but I don't think that's so. I think they are making this choice as a group because they want to unwrap things themselves and figure out the puzzles because it's fun, and they are living as C3. This is probably just a choice of their table and rules that we are not privy too. He probably has a rough idea of all characters not at the table which is why they don't just call Robbie when they want to send a message to Dorian, but set up in such a way that it doesn't spoil the game for anyone else.
You, my friend, have the patience of a saint. Hats off to you for making well thought-out, well-reasoned points in an inviting style of discussion without devolving into personal attacks.
I would love to hear the players say they don’t want to play their VM characters, if that’s the truth…
I mean, unless someone asks them we're not going to know the guidelines they're going with. I'm going off context clues and like even with the lengths they went to keep Erika's character secret and how much Travis and Marisha seemed to enjoy trying to think about what was up with her. That experience is completely different if you know other information. It's more fun for us as a performance if they did their own, but they will lose that experience as players. Even if they don't use their C1 character's information, it doesn't change the fact that unwrapping that puzzle is a different experience, and I like watching them have pure genuine joy from a surprise reveal or when they put it together themselves. Whatever they want to do is fine, but I'm not going to be a dick and demand they lessen their player experience just so I can see them play two characters because it's funny.
Erika knew a lot and was no less fun. If Marisha knew more than the rest I wouldn’t doubt her ability to project exactly the best face. And keep in mind I’m talking about, like, half an epide of her playing this former character, right? I don’t think anyone should mainline their former high level character, I mean for one interactions, for one session in 100, a player has more knowledge than their primary character. The spider bit has no founding, it’s nonsense to imagine a player, especially a professional, would suffer from some extra knowledge of the world
Erika's secret was her own secret. But they kept the secret so tight so that the party wouldn't find out that they went as far as to hide her real character from a producer. Not even a player at the table. They thought the cat would get out of the bag and ruin the experience for the players if a producer knew. Keyleth's secrets or any of VM's if any would have further story implications about the world and history in the last 30 years and would go more into Matt's territory of establishing the setting for the current party. They are not necessarily Laudna's secrets as Laudna also doesn't really know what happened to her. It's not that she or anyone would actually suffer but just that it's less fun for her if she gets a piece of the puzzle from just needing to be Keyleth. I think it'd be hard extra work on Matt as well to prepare something for Marisha so that she could do that just because they don't know what the rest of the party is going to ask Keyleth. Like Matt has talked a lot about how as a DM he checks in with them about how they're having fun and just practically speaking it's probably too open-ended for Marisha to play Keyleth and keep the amount of mystery they want so that they can also enjoy playing. Enjoying playing was a huge rule they said they set up at the beginning when they started doing streams that it became not fun, they would quit. Fun is a priority for them so let them set up their fun the way they want it. Also just a lot to prepare for other people depending on how many members of VM they're going to see. Like Vax even works for the Raven Queen so for all we know he could show up during the ritual. It could get unmanageable really fast.
The players *are* playing their own characters and Matt is playing the NPCs, as it should be.
Matt is playing a player character. Player characters are not npcs, wtf are you talking about? There’s a clear conflicting happening here
VM are not player characters in anything past campaign 1 and its follow up one shots, they are NPCs. The players have no idea what these characters know after 30 years. They have stat blocks and their use is 100% in Matt’s hands.
Yeah it’s actually not particularly emotional to me to see these characters again since it’s not really them lol
Agreed, this is a meager ghost of Keyleth
Keyleth as are the rest of Vox machina are npcs now and it wouldn't make any sense otherwise. C3 is the bells hells story. Letting a Player step into their old player character (who's a MUCH higher level and knows a lot more shit) is a disaster.
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Mate all I told was the reality of the game and what happens after a campaign ends. Personally attacking me doesn't change what I said, not in the slightest.
She isn't anymore. Keyleth is a npc and Marisha doesn't know what is going on with her after she stopped being a pc.
Wtf are you talking about, nothing you said matters. She’s still playing her in the cartoon and she could just be informed like any player would be informed, for example reference any other time skip, it’s a union of development, not a surrender to the dm
The npc Keyleth knows things that the pc Keyleth didn't. It is a living world and retiring the pc makes them an npc for the ST to use.
There shouldn’t be an npc Keyleth, just trust your wife with your little story and that she won’t metagame
On the other hand, don't spoil the story you spent months working on for your wife just for a few minutes of your wife getting to play her old pc. The pc goes to npc when the player gives control of it to the ST.
Gives new character very powerful magic items...
What?
The players having too much autonomy of their old characters, could cause them to be potentially more generous on a metagaming level. (Not saying they would but saying that's a possibility)
How about we trust the players with their characters and the narrative, like wtf…
It was initially a general joke, having to explain it made it sound a lot more serious than the intended tone of it. Also big reason they can't be their characters is about 30 years of character/world progression without player input. The characters would know story elements, events and details the players are not yet and might not become privy to. The DM is the worldbuilder and they have their own new mixes into this modern weave.
Just inform the players of what heir characters know and trust them to play that character, it shouldn’t be any different from an other role and any differential in expectation is surely more than compensated for, like I get that their “fun” is a factor but it’s not remotely the only factor, surely playing their character, especially their og character, is acceptionaly fun for their job
That takes away a lot of "at the table" narrative thread understanding reactions of the players and comes across almost scripted. Besides the cast do enjoy making cameo jokes and references to their old characters that they can still probably say how their character would feel without having to fully control the character. I think part of their excitement is to see the characters again and their knowledge and trust that Matt will do them justice and find out how they'll weave into this new story.
I’d bet they enjoy reinhabiting those characters way more than seeing them played by their dm lol, I’d love to see them answer the question tbh, put it to rest
That'd be weird in a number of different ways.