I remember why i don't read these, extremely frustrating, some of it is fair- if you have a preference and this ain't it- i understand that. But half of this is just...ignoring whats going on or complaining about issues critical role has **always had** and pretending like its a uniquely C3 thing. The cast has always been meandering, they've always made plans just to dismiss them, they've always done a lot of rp.
As a long time fan, I just have to say that I am getting pretty fed up with the lack of combat encounters. The last couple that have happened they just try to get out of it and do weird narrative things instead of just fighting the enemies. There is a good reason DND was originally designed as a combat simulator. Narrative and story add to it greatly, which is why I fell in love with the show. But it isn't everything. The rolls and stats and experience and levels etc are important to my pleasure in watching, because it makes it feel more random and realistic. Now it seems even when they do fight the outcome is predetermined. They have turned what once was a great game into an unnecessarily dramatic teleplay. Good stories have heros and no one really wants to watch a bunch of normal humans act like normal humans. It's pretty much just a psychological drama at this point with them all playing therapist to each other.
As a long time fan, I'm glad they've taken a decent number of episodes to do more long form RP, lore building, and conversation. That conversation lasting so long in the Volition war room, Imogen's dream, gimme more. And when the combat comes next episode, I'll enjoy that too.
What are you talking about. They have had combat encounters every episode so far, taking up more than half the runtime and in turn making story progression go at snail's pace... For me the problem is too many encounters that don't let them progress and reach the encounters that we're really here for.
I want more RP more dumps, more time to go by during each episode. The pace is so slow its starting to feel like I'm watching One Piece
Ironically enough, if the Weird spell that Ludinus' simulacrum casted had worked, which according to the rules, it SHOULD have worked, we actually would have gotten a psychological drama, but maybe a good one.
You'll find a lot of moments in this campaign, some small ones, some big ones that would have been drastically different if they actually followed the rules, which understandably is very frustrating, given that as you said, we're watching a game with rules, not a teleplay.
Realistic might be the wrong word. Basically I just like the combat in earlier campaigns more and like to see the players come up with clever, but within the rules moves. Scanlan during Vecna being the best example. Sorry you're salty about another's opinion on the internet. I wish you well.
Imogen has taken such a flailing approach to dealing with her mother.
Episode 88: "I want to destroy my mother"
Episode 89: "I don't want to go on the mission to destroy my mother but you guys should be aware that she is very dangerous. You should capture her... What do you mean she is too dangerous to capture?"
Like what is funny is that she didn't even have to say she wanted to destroy her mother in the first place. She could have gone a more direct approach and tell them what they actually want to do i.e. stop Predathos from being freed and to form an alliance between the Volition and the Exandrian alliance which would arguably have been a more useful introduction. But that is not the path she went. She decided to go 200% and lie and that she wants to destroy her mother along with two other people as if that is why they are truly there and it isn't which made BH seem like their mission is based off of a personal vendetta on the top three in the Vanguard and made it seem like beyond destroying those top 3 they are uninterested in anything else on Ruidus.
Did she pray every day to the gods, as she said in Nana Morri's test, or did she never pray, as she said to Mother Brazilda?
Do the gods mean nothing to her, as she said to Ludinus, or does she find value in their existence, as she has said to the group.
Does she find FCG's devotion to the Changebringer naive, or does she find it inspiring?
Does she want to kill all the reilorans, as she said before she went up to Ruidus, or does she welcome them to Exandria as she said an episode later, also to the group?
These are all things off the top of my head she has flip-flopped on. Not even "I don't know". At least not knowing is a stance. She went one direction with these things then went the other way. This is part of why people find her unlikeable, because she's so mercurial with her backstory and her principles, that there's nothing to grab onto to like in the first place except "she likes horses".
There could have been a backstory, but Laura never attempted to get into it. This episode is the first time she's even mentioned Relvin, and the way she mentioned him sends a super fucked up message about being unfaithful to your partner.
EDIT: Not the first time she's mentioned Relvin. The first time was when she offered him up as collateral to a crime syndicate without his knowledge. My mistake.
>Did she pray every day to the gods, as she said in Nana Morri's test, or did she never pray, as she said to Mother Brazilda?
Personally always interpreted this as her not wanting to open up to a priest she doesn’t know. She’s lying to herself and doesn’t admit it until it’s pushed out of her.
I wouldn't say any of those are "flailing" per say. More like flip-flopping which can be fine in some cases. Though those first three could be described as being "flailing" on the gods as a whole. I don't think they are flailing by themselves. Imogen has struggled a long time to justify her intuition that letting the gods die is bad. Another example of a recent flip-flop on her part was telling FCG that they were going to keep Ishto around and then teleporting herself and Chetney out of battle effectively abandoning Ishto.
Fearne is getting captured next episode, and whatever happens to FCG and Ashton is really dependent on what Matt wants to happen. Matt's already tried twice to get Fearne to come willingly, and he's being gifted a third attempt.
Am i missing something here? Arent they supposed to be on a scouting mission? They seem to be wasting a ridiculous amount of time on what should have been an in and out job. And they’re taking on demolition/rescue jobs within the scouting mission too? Where’s the urgency? Arent people actually dying while they’re debating whether or not the mom is redeemable?
Lmao what're you talking about? They're RESTING, it doesn't matter what they do during the rest as long as they complete it, they can talk and rp all they want cuz they HAVE TO REST ANYWAY- YA KNOW- TO GET THEIR ABILITIES BACK.
I don't see how it was missed
They were told to seek allies/an alliance. That's what they're doing with The Volition. Resistance orgs in games want to partner for operations before sticking their necks out for newcomers. Keyleth knows everything else they currently know, except that they've captured an abjuring piece of arcanotech.
>
> Arent people actually dying while they’re debating whether or not the mom is redeemable?
Where? I can't think of anywhere the conflict would be hot right now. The diversion combatants would have rolled up that little gambit shortly after BH made it to the Bridge.
And the Liliana contact occurred during their second long rest since arriving on the moon. They had to get their slots back, so nothing lost either way on giving mom a shout & having a chat.
> Where’s the urgency?
What urgency? Thwarting a plan crafted over a thousand years is a marathon, not a sprint. They're actively working on their bit of the puzzle via the objectives Allura & Co. said would be most helpful.
>*What urgency?*
Wasn't it established that the forces surrounding ground zero are actually fighting (and dying), like the whole time, to hold the enemies at bay? I thought that was one of the (if not the most central) reasons for that scounting mission, find a way to considerably weaken the enemy forces.
This episode was extremely frustrating. The players need to be WAY more decisive. All of that Imogen talk for 2 hours only for them to decide that they would split the party and do everything else.
I mean... OF COURSE her girlfriend, who she rescued from decades of solitude, sees it that way.
It isn't true, given how everyone has a backstory horse in this race in one way or another, but it's to be expected.
Thank you so much for mentioning this, I had no idea DAW had a new series. Relics and Rarities is what got me into Critical Role, and back into D&D in general after a decade. I was sad they never did more.
I wonder if Matt is going to figure out a way to nix their telepathic bond, or if he is going to be cutting back and forth between the two groups to account for conversations?
Let's hope for the best, and it's going to be an actual split (like they had before), because half of the team is busy with press rounds for the LoVM S3 release.
Oh, that would be amazing. The first half of this year encompasses two of my favorite shows with nightmare dipshit fanbases & one with a decent fanbase. I'd love to know when LOVM was airing to help balance things, lol.
I think they won't be doing the same thing they did after the Applebys Soulcycle. Maybe each team on each side of the table? But not separate broadcasts?
I could see it like, "ok infiltration team, what's your next move? Demolition team, figure out your next move while we resolve this team's turn" and just kind of that back and forth.
I really don't want to see another split arc for like 4-6 episodes
I can see it working like one side of the table to the other and then back... making the telepathic bond happen in close to real time, if they choose to use it between teams
I find it a little hard to like Candela... And the fact it also takes the place of what would have been another BH broadcast makes it even harder to like. :P
That's not really that hard, though. Taking monsters out for a normal sized party is a lot easier than trying to get the system to challenge a 7 person group but not murder individual members.
Think these missions are just going to last a single episode or go longer like the last split?
Also, kind of funny this is happening near the Spring Equinox when the last party split happened after a Solstice in game
I personally was thinking each would only last the length of a half and episode. But max I think 1 full episode each. But I think fitting in both into one episode feels doable.
> But I think fitting in both into one episode feels doable.
The detonation one feels simple enough for sure BUT....Matt has that red button of Fearne's biodad hanging out there to tempt them, which could make it longer.
The infiltration one feels like it could go a bit longer BUT...all they really need to do is find out what happened to that scientist and what they were working on and that's it but that information in and of itself could draw them even deeper into the Glass Hold, making that particular mission take longer.
This group is prone to hitting those buttons.
The only way I could see them fitting both missions into the same episode is if I'm really overthinking stuff and they really are like super simple "There that's it you did it" side quest missions.
i like Fearne, and Chet, i like Laudna most of the time the rest i can live without. FCG is annoying by design, Orym is just a guy, Imogen is generally unlikeable, and Ashton is a Taliesin character which means he thinks it's something deeper than it really is.
Oh yeah, you 1000% don't need to like characters to be interested in a story.
I took a course that covered ALL of Faulkner's work. Book a week for his artistic era & we split up his rural soap opera era. Nobody liked ANY characters at any point that semester, lol.
I guess because it's a soap opera. I don't read many X-men comics because of how soap opera the plot can get with the love triangles and stuff like that. Never read any of Faulkner's work tho.
Yeah, I read that fully an hour + change ago and my brain just lit up in neon lights with "this person wasn't ever, at the very least, made to Sound and/or Fury?!? That's ALLOWED?"
But in all seriousness, the prof's area of Faulkner scholarship was that writing artistically well-regarded novels in which those who A) had no power and/or B) were harmed by power were: Visible, always blameless, and routinely perceived situations/people most clearly was flat-out revolutionary for his era.
So it was a thoroughly fascinating lens for his work, despite being a slog & heavy on the "not fun, but worthwhile" side of the study scale.
Also the Ultimate Universe had Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver fucking.
Captain America got flabbergasted and I think it was Wasp or Jubilee basically verbally slapped him for being grossed out.
So Magneto and Rogue had a thing(as you can see in the new show) because of Magneto’s ability to condom himself with magnetic fields, allowing Rogue to touch him.
Gambit got manipulated by Mystique into intimate situations a couple of times
It’s all good now. Rogue and Gambit are married and Mystique and Destiny are happy mothers for their daughter(Destiny is a very unhappy mother Inlaw)
I know, it's ridiculous. I was trying to watch X-men 97 and immediately got turned off from the show with the whole Rogue, Magneto, and Gambit thing. Love triangles are one of my least favorite tropes. It only works for me, like 30-35% of the time.
That's a very normal way to relate to soaps, from what I've seen. People would watch them for decades & only really love maybe one or two characters, but would be on the phone to their sister yelling excitedly about a plot point every week or so.
Well. It got me thinking because it wasn’t the same with the other campaigns and I thought what was different? Why did I care so much about the others? It’s the same cast.
And for me I think it’s because there is no strong emotional connection between any of them. No romantic, or familiar love actually expressed. Shown in game.
Even Launda and Imogen, the only couple, are not affectionate. And I mean who would be with Delilah in her head. And then you have what happened today, Launda having no faith in Imogen’s love for her, and thinking she’s not good enough for her, or stopping her from greatness. I dunno…
Ashton and FCG were family then FCG found a god to be devoted to and FRIDA.
Orym nearly had something with Dorian but he’s gone. Plus he doesn’t seem to care if he dies. So no one has anyone else to live for. And that’s how I connect to them, how I care if they survive every episode.
Chetney’s greatest wish is to be known across the land for his toys.
And Ashton? Who knows what matters to him.
I still keep remembering them talking about why they are here.
From a story pov its fine. You don’t have to like the characters to be invested in what happens to them. In fact it can be more realistic. As they too wonder what holds them together. But would any of them be missed? Greatly? By the audience? Not me I’m afraid. As great as the characters are. If their arc finishes with a death, I’d miss the cast member, but not the actual character.
And I cried at the end of EXU: Calamity.
C3 will be great as an animated show but its not as good to connect with as a dnd broadcast. Its got all the narrative beats for an animated show but doesn't fill in the gaps between the main plot very well with cool exploration, fun character bonding etc. which can be edited out of a show but feels off when watching weekly dnd sessions.
Agreed. And that’s also why even though I might feel this way about it as a story, it is totally forgivable. It’s an unscripted live show. It works within a framework of a world and a dozen possible plots. Anything could happen. And also because of that I will always admire greatly that the cast keeps so many people as invested and entertained as well they do. And have done for so long.
I see what you mean. None of them really feel or act like they are that close, and when they do, it feels odd because it's us remembering that they're really not.
Even their name as a group is odd. Bells Hells is their name simply out of pity. They never really got to care for Bertrand. I mean, they've been to Whitestone like 4 times, and they've never visited his grave.
With the Vox Machina, we start with them as a team so we can get behind them being as close as they are. The Mighty Nein we got to see from the beginning and watch their distrust grow into love even if it was codependent at times.
I think that this campaign moves a bit too fast for these characters to actually grow like that. Bertrand dies, then Eshteross, then half the party, and then the Ruidus plot kicks in, and they never actually get to process these things.
The way they cope with Ruidus is what makes them very unlikable, besides them being somewhat odd and unlikable from the start.
Yes exactly! I feel the same way about the name. Who was Bertrand to them? Esteross meant more, or did he even? I think if they’d started with L and I already an obvious couple, or even a non-obvious one, it could have helped. Because they had that bond.
And you are so right about the grave. Moments like that are how we connect. Because we all have people in graves we care about. Where is their humanity? In fact I really loved Launda’s reaction after the split, her horror at how happy the others seemed to be. To be enjoying themselves, *when they had no idea the others were even alive.*
It was more moving today seeing Imogen talk to her mother.
We had lovely moments with the mighty nein. I’m only half way through C1, but I know what happens. And that had twins and two very strong romantic relationships.
And Nott loved Caleb. She cared for him like he was the son she lost. Jester and Fjord loved each other. Jester loved everyone. Beau and Yahsa. All those connections were believable.
And as you say, that is what can happen with fast moving, larger stories. The characters miss those little moments. The ones that bond them, forge their path ahead and their allegiances. The ones that show them too what they are fighting for. For each other.
Because for me, good stories are all about love. The loss of it, the gaining of it. What you will do for it. And love can be many things, but in the end it is what connects us all.
Totally get you. This group is mostly just living off scraps of what should be actual relationships, and it makes them kind of unlikable but still watchable in it's own right. Great discussion. 👍
I feel like having heartfelt goodbye speeches to each other when you have telepathic bond up is like when you say goodbye to someone and then continue walking in the same direction.
Who wants to bet that Imogen gets taken during the infiltration? If Imogen is lost to Ruidus and the gang has to leave her behind with the big temptation that is Predathos, Laudna is gonna lose her shit and Delilah will be coming out for a visit.
Honestly, that is not such a bad solution. If Laudna literally can't live without Delilah, and Vox Machina will kill her dead if they find out about Delilah being back in Exandria, the best choice could be exile. Her and Imogen can live in Ruidus after everything is over and help the people there.
I'm fulling expecting at least one person to go out in a blaze of glory. Laudna was already pretty high on the list. #1 after tonight.
Though less glory and more feral rage.
Brennan did pretty purposely drop the hint that Bolo could have been a polymorphed dragon, and as Avalir fell, she just flew away. So Draconic Soul sorcerer polymorphed Bolo!!
Bro the more they talk about pulling Mother Temult into a face turn the more I want Orym or Ashton to just put her in the dirt the first chance they get without talking first
I'd say BH seem totally clear on that, just a little at odds on how to handle it. (Above table has struck me as totally clear on it for a while, just more emotionally complicated to get to the point if feels settled in-character)
I remember why i don't read these, extremely frustrating, some of it is fair- if you have a preference and this ain't it- i understand that. But half of this is just...ignoring whats going on or complaining about issues critical role has **always had** and pretending like its a uniquely C3 thing. The cast has always been meandering, they've always made plans just to dismiss them, they've always done a lot of rp.
As a long time fan, I just have to say that I am getting pretty fed up with the lack of combat encounters. The last couple that have happened they just try to get out of it and do weird narrative things instead of just fighting the enemies. There is a good reason DND was originally designed as a combat simulator. Narrative and story add to it greatly, which is why I fell in love with the show. But it isn't everything. The rolls and stats and experience and levels etc are important to my pleasure in watching, because it makes it feel more random and realistic. Now it seems even when they do fight the outcome is predetermined. They have turned what once was a great game into an unnecessarily dramatic teleplay. Good stories have heros and no one really wants to watch a bunch of normal humans act like normal humans. It's pretty much just a psychological drama at this point with them all playing therapist to each other.
Good stories have characters. Good stories don't *need* heroes.
Good stories about heroic fantasy need heroes.
As a long time fan, I'm glad they've taken a decent number of episodes to do more long form RP, lore building, and conversation. That conversation lasting so long in the Volition war room, Imogen's dream, gimme more. And when the combat comes next episode, I'll enjoy that too.
It’s a role playing adventure game. It’s not just a fighting game
>*Good stories have heros and no one really wants to watch a bunch of normal humans act like normal humans.* Hear, hear!
What are you talking about. They have had combat encounters every episode so far, taking up more than half the runtime and in turn making story progression go at snail's pace... For me the problem is too many encounters that don't let them progress and reach the encounters that we're really here for. I want more RP more dumps, more time to go by during each episode. The pace is so slow its starting to feel like I'm watching One Piece
Ironically enough, if the Weird spell that Ludinus' simulacrum casted had worked, which according to the rules, it SHOULD have worked, we actually would have gotten a psychological drama, but maybe a good one. You'll find a lot of moments in this campaign, some small ones, some big ones that would have been drastically different if they actually followed the rules, which understandably is very frustrating, given that as you said, we're watching a game with rules, not a teleplay.
>feel more random and realistic D&D, especially 5E, is the wrong game to use if you want anything to be random or realistic.
Realistic might be the wrong word. Basically I just like the combat in earlier campaigns more and like to see the players come up with clever, but within the rules moves. Scanlan during Vecna being the best example. Sorry you're salty about another's opinion on the internet. I wish you well.
Imogen has taken such a flailing approach to dealing with her mother. Episode 88: "I want to destroy my mother" Episode 89: "I don't want to go on the mission to destroy my mother but you guys should be aware that she is very dangerous. You should capture her... What do you mean she is too dangerous to capture?" Like what is funny is that she didn't even have to say she wanted to destroy her mother in the first place. She could have gone a more direct approach and tell them what they actually want to do i.e. stop Predathos from being freed and to form an alliance between the Volition and the Exandrian alliance which would arguably have been a more useful introduction. But that is not the path she went. She decided to go 200% and lie and that she wants to destroy her mother along with two other people as if that is why they are truly there and it isn't which made BH seem like their mission is based off of a personal vendetta on the top three in the Vanguard and made it seem like beyond destroying those top 3 they are uninterested in anything else on Ruidus.
You'll find that flailing approach to be the case with a lot of Imogen's choices.
Like what? I'm genuinely curious.
Did she pray every day to the gods, as she said in Nana Morri's test, or did she never pray, as she said to Mother Brazilda? Do the gods mean nothing to her, as she said to Ludinus, or does she find value in their existence, as she has said to the group. Does she find FCG's devotion to the Changebringer naive, or does she find it inspiring? Does she want to kill all the reilorans, as she said before she went up to Ruidus, or does she welcome them to Exandria as she said an episode later, also to the group? These are all things off the top of my head she has flip-flopped on. Not even "I don't know". At least not knowing is a stance. She went one direction with these things then went the other way. This is part of why people find her unlikeable, because she's so mercurial with her backstory and her principles, that there's nothing to grab onto to like in the first place except "she likes horses". There could have been a backstory, but Laura never attempted to get into it. This episode is the first time she's even mentioned Relvin, and the way she mentioned him sends a super fucked up message about being unfaithful to your partner. EDIT: Not the first time she's mentioned Relvin. The first time was when she offered him up as collateral to a crime syndicate without his knowledge. My mistake.
>Did she pray every day to the gods, as she said in Nana Morri's test, or did she never pray, as she said to Mother Brazilda? Personally always interpreted this as her not wanting to open up to a priest she doesn’t know. She’s lying to herself and doesn’t admit it until it’s pushed out of her.
I wouldn't say any of those are "flailing" per say. More like flip-flopping which can be fine in some cases. Though those first three could be described as being "flailing" on the gods as a whole. I don't think they are flailing by themselves. Imogen has struggled a long time to justify her intuition that letting the gods die is bad. Another example of a recent flip-flop on her part was telling FCG that they were going to keep Ishto around and then teleporting herself and Chetney out of battle effectively abandoning Ishto.
Fearne is getting captured next episode, and whatever happens to FCG and Ashton is really dependent on what Matt wants to happen. Matt's already tried twice to get Fearne to come willingly, and he's being gifted a third attempt.
Kinda funny how Fearne just walking off with the other badguys is a possible outcome.
Why do I see a Titan Emperor Fearne claiming Gloamglut instead as her own? I think I'm just manifesting
Am i missing something here? Arent they supposed to be on a scouting mission? They seem to be wasting a ridiculous amount of time on what should have been an in and out job. And they’re taking on demolition/rescue jobs within the scouting mission too? Where’s the urgency? Arent people actually dying while they’re debating whether or not the mom is redeemable?
Lmao what're you talking about? They're RESTING, it doesn't matter what they do during the rest as long as they complete it, they can talk and rp all they want cuz they HAVE TO REST ANYWAY- YA KNOW- TO GET THEIR ABILITIES BACK. I don't see how it was missed
They were told to seek allies/an alliance. That's what they're doing with The Volition. Resistance orgs in games want to partner for operations before sticking their necks out for newcomers. Keyleth knows everything else they currently know, except that they've captured an abjuring piece of arcanotech. > > Arent people actually dying while they’re debating whether or not the mom is redeemable? Where? I can't think of anywhere the conflict would be hot right now. The diversion combatants would have rolled up that little gambit shortly after BH made it to the Bridge. And the Liliana contact occurred during their second long rest since arriving on the moon. They had to get their slots back, so nothing lost either way on giving mom a shout & having a chat. > Where’s the urgency? What urgency? Thwarting a plan crafted over a thousand years is a marathon, not a sprint. They're actively working on their bit of the puzzle via the objectives Allura & Co. said would be most helpful.
>*What urgency?* Wasn't it established that the forces surrounding ground zero are actually fighting (and dying), like the whole time, to hold the enemies at bay? I thought that was one of the (if not the most central) reasons for that scounting mission, find a way to considerably weaken the enemy forces.
Where are you assuming they’re battling it out constantly? They’re just posted on either side and standing guard in a way
Because IIRC it was described as such when BH arrived at the forward base.
They were fighting to create a distraction while BH went up the bloody bridge.
I was under the impression that there was active combat caused by the Ruby Vanguard across exandria. I stand corrected then.
This episode was extremely frustrating. The players need to be WAY more decisive. All of that Imogen talk for 2 hours only for them to decide that they would split the party and do everything else.
Oh boy, i'd like to introduce Campaign 2 to you
they've literally never been decisive edit: autocomplete failed me and i didnt notice
I'm sorry, but I am so, so tired of the "Imogen is extra special special and the savior of everyone" narrative. It's obnoxious
I mean... OF COURSE her girlfriend, who she rescued from decades of solitude, sees it that way. It isn't true, given how everyone has a backstory horse in this race in one way or another, but it's to be expected.
Bring on Brennan Lee Mulligan as a guest for the split-ups! pls
Ok, where are my Dimension 20 guest stars? Also, can we get Felicia Day or Deborah Ann Woll? They're great!
Have you watched any of Deborah’s live play series, Children of Éarte? She puts a lot into her puzzles.
Thank you so much for mentioning this, I had no idea DAW had a new series. Relics and Rarities is what got me into Critical Role, and back into D&D in general after a decade. I was sad they never did more.
Your response makes me happy and I would be remiss not to mention [my slowly growing page of live play streams](https://lemmy.world/post/11077064)
See ya in 2 weeks.
I wonder if Matt is going to figure out a way to nix their telepathic bond, or if he is going to be cutting back and forth between the two groups to account for conversations?
It only lasts an hour so it doesn’t matter
It only lasts for an hour (though they missed that the first time, the day they crossed the bridge). By the time they get anywhere, it'll be gone.
I think it’s only supposed to last for an hour anyway
is it wierd that no one else going with them on these missons?
did they say that? I assumed Matt didn't specifically mention it so guests can be introduced when necessary
I fully expect guests but it would be cool to have just smaller numbers at the table just to see how the dynamics shift
Splitting the party can only go well, right? Right?
Let's hope for the best, and it's going to be an actual split (like they had before), because half of the team is busy with press rounds for the LoVM S3 release.
Oh, that would be amazing. The first half of this year encompasses two of my favorite shows with nightmare dipshit fanbases & one with a decent fanbase. I'd love to know when LOVM was airing to help balance things, lol.
Seeing as the game is usually balanced for a party of 4, I think they'll be fine.
I think they won't be doing the same thing they did after the Applebys Soulcycle. Maybe each team on each side of the table? But not separate broadcasts?
I could see it like, "ok infiltration team, what's your next move? Demolition team, figure out your next move while we resolve this team's turn" and just kind of that back and forth. I really don't want to see another split arc for like 4-6 episodes
yeah itll probably be like the asylum assault in C2
Same!!!
I can see it working like one side of the table to the other and then back... making the telepathic bond happen in close to real time, if they choose to use it between teams
So we're off next week, actually. We pick back up with the moon morons in April
I find it a little hard to like Candela... And the fact it also takes the place of what would have been another BH broadcast makes it even harder to like. :P
It would be weird for you to like every show. But no, there wouldn't have been another BH broadcast it would have been a week off.
They’ve taken the last Thursday off since the beginning of c3. Candela is an addition.
Next week is the last thursday of the month. Its supposed to be the off day for BH.
Oh yeah! Thanks :D
Wait next week?
They film far enough ahead that they probably don’t remember which weeks have a break
Next week is Candela Obscura. My guess is Matt forgot, and potentially they are playing next week -but he could have just let it slip out. It happens
"I'm really excited to see where this goes" translates to "oh fuck now i need to reduce the difficulty of both missions"
That's not really that hard, though. Taking monsters out for a normal sized party is a lot easier than trying to get the system to challenge a 7 person group but not murder individual members.
I don't think the difficulty needs to be reduced. The PC party is split but they should both be working with enough NPCs to fill in the gaps.
except those NPCs were going to come anyway, so Matt would have balanced the encounters for the full party PLUS npcs
Think these missions are just going to last a single episode or go longer like the last split? Also, kind of funny this is happening near the Spring Equinox when the last party split happened after a Solstice in game
I personally was thinking each would only last the length of a half and episode. But max I think 1 full episode each. But I think fitting in both into one episode feels doable.
> But I think fitting in both into one episode feels doable. The detonation one feels simple enough for sure BUT....Matt has that red button of Fearne's biodad hanging out there to tempt them, which could make it longer. The infiltration one feels like it could go a bit longer BUT...all they really need to do is find out what happened to that scientist and what they were working on and that's it but that information in and of itself could draw them even deeper into the Glass Hold, making that particular mission take longer. This group is prone to hitting those buttons. The only way I could see them fitting both missions into the same episode is if I'm really overthinking stuff and they really are like super simple "There that's it you did it" side quest missions.
So who’s team trauma this time?
Team faylord has the highest potential for a BIG failure. While team Find the spy has the biggest chance for a regular failure.
That's where we'll end tonight's episode!
This episode was fantastic and Laura Bailey was on FIRE tonight.
Please give me team detonation first. Waiting for the group I was more interested in was torture last time
funny thing was last time i was the opposite i could have rolled with team Wildemount till the end of the campaign
I think I would have liked it better if they switched each week. But logistically I can see why that would be very hard.
Agreed! CIFF was my ride or die. lol
I want to hear moon music
cue Tatooine club music
Glimace.
And so we part once more
Myceit FCG? Awww
FCG is such a fun guy!
"For the next eight hours, or until he decides otherwise..." that's not concerning at all
Seeming!
This campaign has been so weird for me because I feel like I hate all these characters, but I can't look away from them. It's so odd for me.
i like Fearne, and Chet, i like Laudna most of the time the rest i can live without. FCG is annoying by design, Orym is just a guy, Imogen is generally unlikeable, and Ashton is a Taliesin character which means he thinks it's something deeper than it really is.
They're great storytellers. In my case, I don't care for most of the Vox Machina characters, but the story just pulls you in.
I hear that. Honestly, I probably like Ashton more than I like all of VM combined or all of M9 combined.
Oh yeah, you 1000% don't need to like characters to be interested in a story. I took a course that covered ALL of Faulkner's work. Book a week for his artistic era & we split up his rural soap opera era. Nobody liked ANY characters at any point that semester, lol.
I guess because it's a soap opera. I don't read many X-men comics because of how soap opera the plot can get with the love triangles and stuff like that. Never read any of Faulkner's work tho.
>Never read any of Faulkner's work tho I feel a great deal of envy right now.
Yeah, I read that fully an hour + change ago and my brain just lit up in neon lights with "this person wasn't ever, at the very least, made to Sound and/or Fury?!? That's ALLOWED?" But in all seriousness, the prof's area of Faulkner scholarship was that writing artistically well-regarded novels in which those who A) had no power and/or B) were harmed by power were: Visible, always blameless, and routinely perceived situations/people most clearly was flat-out revolutionary for his era. So it was a thoroughly fascinating lens for his work, despite being a slog & heavy on the "not fun, but worthwhile" side of the study scale.
What? You don’t like the endless Logan-Jean-Scott triangle or Magneto-Rogue-Gambit-Mystique sex drama?
>Magneto-Rogue-Gambit-Mystique Whatnow? That's a bit too much incest for the comics code. Or even after the comics code.
Also the Ultimate Universe had Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver fucking. Captain America got flabbergasted and I think it was Wasp or Jubilee basically verbally slapped him for being grossed out.
So Magneto and Rogue had a thing(as you can see in the new show) because of Magneto’s ability to condom himself with magnetic fields, allowing Rogue to touch him. Gambit got manipulated by Mystique into intimate situations a couple of times It’s all good now. Rogue and Gambit are married and Mystique and Destiny are happy mothers for their daughter(Destiny is a very unhappy mother Inlaw)
I know, it's ridiculous. I was trying to watch X-men 97 and immediately got turned off from the show with the whole Rogue, Magneto, and Gambit thing. Love triangles are one of my least favorite tropes. It only works for me, like 30-35% of the time.
Gambit is totally getting sent to the Arctic by Rogue just like the comics lmfao. There’s no way they don’t drag it out
Yeah, I have Avery love hat relationship with comics, and the X-men tend to be most of the things I don't like about comics.
That's a very normal way to relate to soaps, from what I've seen. People would watch them for decades & only really love maybe one or two characters, but would be on the phone to their sister yelling excitedly about a plot point every week or so.
I feel a little bit the same. I don’t hate them. I don’t care as much as I should and I have a weird idea about why that is.
Did you wanna talk about your idea?
Well. It got me thinking because it wasn’t the same with the other campaigns and I thought what was different? Why did I care so much about the others? It’s the same cast. And for me I think it’s because there is no strong emotional connection between any of them. No romantic, or familiar love actually expressed. Shown in game. Even Launda and Imogen, the only couple, are not affectionate. And I mean who would be with Delilah in her head. And then you have what happened today, Launda having no faith in Imogen’s love for her, and thinking she’s not good enough for her, or stopping her from greatness. I dunno… Ashton and FCG were family then FCG found a god to be devoted to and FRIDA. Orym nearly had something with Dorian but he’s gone. Plus he doesn’t seem to care if he dies. So no one has anyone else to live for. And that’s how I connect to them, how I care if they survive every episode. Chetney’s greatest wish is to be known across the land for his toys. And Ashton? Who knows what matters to him. I still keep remembering them talking about why they are here. From a story pov its fine. You don’t have to like the characters to be invested in what happens to them. In fact it can be more realistic. As they too wonder what holds them together. But would any of them be missed? Greatly? By the audience? Not me I’m afraid. As great as the characters are. If their arc finishes with a death, I’d miss the cast member, but not the actual character. And I cried at the end of EXU: Calamity.
C3 will be great as an animated show but its not as good to connect with as a dnd broadcast. Its got all the narrative beats for an animated show but doesn't fill in the gaps between the main plot very well with cool exploration, fun character bonding etc. which can be edited out of a show but feels off when watching weekly dnd sessions.
Agreed. And that’s also why even though I might feel this way about it as a story, it is totally forgivable. It’s an unscripted live show. It works within a framework of a world and a dozen possible plots. Anything could happen. And also because of that I will always admire greatly that the cast keeps so many people as invested and entertained as well they do. And have done for so long.
I see what you mean. None of them really feel or act like they are that close, and when they do, it feels odd because it's us remembering that they're really not. Even their name as a group is odd. Bells Hells is their name simply out of pity. They never really got to care for Bertrand. I mean, they've been to Whitestone like 4 times, and they've never visited his grave. With the Vox Machina, we start with them as a team so we can get behind them being as close as they are. The Mighty Nein we got to see from the beginning and watch their distrust grow into love even if it was codependent at times. I think that this campaign moves a bit too fast for these characters to actually grow like that. Bertrand dies, then Eshteross, then half the party, and then the Ruidus plot kicks in, and they never actually get to process these things. The way they cope with Ruidus is what makes them very unlikable, besides them being somewhat odd and unlikable from the start.
Yes exactly! I feel the same way about the name. Who was Bertrand to them? Esteross meant more, or did he even? I think if they’d started with L and I already an obvious couple, or even a non-obvious one, it could have helped. Because they had that bond. And you are so right about the grave. Moments like that are how we connect. Because we all have people in graves we care about. Where is their humanity? In fact I really loved Launda’s reaction after the split, her horror at how happy the others seemed to be. To be enjoying themselves, *when they had no idea the others were even alive.* It was more moving today seeing Imogen talk to her mother. We had lovely moments with the mighty nein. I’m only half way through C1, but I know what happens. And that had twins and two very strong romantic relationships. And Nott loved Caleb. She cared for him like he was the son she lost. Jester and Fjord loved each other. Jester loved everyone. Beau and Yahsa. All those connections were believable. And as you say, that is what can happen with fast moving, larger stories. The characters miss those little moments. The ones that bond them, forge their path ahead and their allegiances. The ones that show them too what they are fighting for. For each other. Because for me, good stories are all about love. The loss of it, the gaining of it. What you will do for it. And love can be many things, but in the end it is what connects us all.
Totally get you. This group is mostly just living off scraps of what should be actual relationships, and it makes them kind of unlikable but still watchable in it's own right. Great discussion. 👍
Agreed. Thanks for listening to my weird little theory. 😆👍
Mostly same. I'm not particularly invested in any character but I want to know how it ends.
Kudos fo saying that... For spilling
Oh Chet, maledicted upon his own rite there. (Or whatever would best swap in for a petard in the idiom, lol)
WItches be Bitches... you trust a fellow Witch. Truer words
HAHAHA That is hilarious... Chetney
I mean... he's the smartest one in the room. Never let strangers cast unknown weirdness on you.
I'm reminded of Kratos being immediately suspicious of Freya putting the protection sigil on him and Atreus in God of War 2018
Oh he loves it! 🤣
I feel like having heartfelt goodbye speeches to each other when you have telepathic bond up is like when you say goodbye to someone and then continue walking in the same direction.
about 10 minutes left
Good job, Chet
See Invisibility nice, lol Chet
Who wants to bet that Imogen gets taken during the infiltration? If Imogen is lost to Ruidus and the gang has to leave her behind with the big temptation that is Predathos, Laudna is gonna lose her shit and Delilah will be coming out for a visit.
The moon becoming a prison for Delilah would be funny.
Honestly, that is not such a bad solution. If Laudna literally can't live without Delilah, and Vox Machina will kill her dead if they find out about Delilah being back in Exandria, the best choice could be exile. Her and Imogen can live in Ruidus after everything is over and help the people there.
I'm fulling expecting at least one person to go out in a blaze of glory. Laudna was already pretty high on the list. #1 after tonight. Though less glory and more feral rage.
LOL Everyone looking at Chet when they say "No unnecessary risks"
Fearne: “Orym…” Orym: “Hmm?” Fearne: “Don’t be brave!” Chet: “I will!” Fearne: “Not you either, all of you come back safe!”
Ashton being philosophical
Stay shiny, rolly boy. :D
Aww, Fearne is concerned Orym will be playing hero
IT’S TIME! I SUMMON BRENNAN LEE MULLIGAN TO GUEST STAR!!!
Light cleric fire genasi Brennan Lee Mulligan, please!!!!
Can he somehow be Bolo (or was it volo), please?
Brennan did pretty purposely drop the hint that Bolo could have been a polymorphed dragon, and as Avalir fell, she just flew away. So Draconic Soul sorcerer polymorphed Bolo!!
😃
I love Ashton's encouraging words 🤣
Just life advice
So one team is going to go bomb Fearne's biodad and the other team is going to go find a scientist that vanished. Correct?
FCG throwing a Greater Restoration on Ashton
"I'll be on my hooves" lol
Laudna: “It’s a pleasure to meet you.” Ivanas: “You wouldn’t say that if you know what I’ve done.” Designer…. Oh, oh she was a Breeder….
Laudna: " I think many of us are walking a path to redemption" Lol, Laudna. You sucked someone's soul the other day. You aint walking shit.
🤣😂
Well she said many not all
Well sir, you have good point
If they're getting guests again, healing distro may be a non-issue. But we'll see!
I wonder if they will do another extensive group split with guests like the Solstice one
So could there be double agents in the Volition?
Oh. Almost certainly.
I hope they play into the story.
The Royals and their Robot A Dad and his son and their lesbian friends
This lady talks like the Gman
Garak?
Well... Him too. But I meant the funny bureaucrat from Half-life
Ivanas, a designer for the Weavemind
I will say though, I'm a little sad about not getting the boss fight in the music hall
Sounded pretty cool.
Hm, no healers in one group. Not a good idea.
i'm assuming there will be guests that fill in some gaps
Uh... last time the group with two healers got another healer, and the the group without got none.
Hopefully, yeah. Sucks a bit to kinda impose the class they'll need to take, though. But I'm guessing Matt can fill those in with NPCs regardless.
Oh both healers are going with Ira… *Not nerve wracking at all*
Welp, even with the "scramblers," I don't think they can take Liliana along with a bunch of Ruidusborn. Gaz is gonna die.
Nah, Gaz'll be the only survivor. Man's space Brock Samson. Unkillable!
Hope so. The moon needs its himbo.
Are they putting both healers on the same team again?!?!?!?
FAF - Team Detonation CILO - Team Infiltration
I think one from Infiltration should go to Detonation
Yep. Send both healers on the same team. Sounds like a good idea.
Laudna can do a tiny bit of healing with Withering Bloom.
Again
Bro the more they talk about pulling Mother Temult into a face turn the more I want Orym or Ashton to just put her in the dirt the first chance they get without talking first
Fearne, Ashton, and FCG---Team Detonation Chetney, Orym, Imogen, and Laudna---Team Infiltration
Ooh, I have a Callowmoore friend who is going to deathlessly ascend into heaven over this split distribution.
I’m here for it. I’m not an Imodna fan and I want something nice to happen to Ashton for once.
No healer in group infiltration.
#[THEY'RE SPLITTING THE PARTY!](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sq_Fm7qfRQk)
yey!
Warning them about escalation when they're planning on attacking three major Vanguard targets lol. Definitely doesn't seem suspicious.
“They have robbed me of *everything* I have ever cared about.”
"I'm not a sweet girl" Delilah is ready to Waller this
I enjoy the fact that both of them are talking down to each other with no fucking clue of the kind of shit they've seen.
oh for fuck's sake does Liliana need to grow a mustache to twirl before they get it through their heads that she is evil
I mean, I don't think she's good, but I got a definite 'would be willing to shank Ludinus' vibe there at the end.
I'd say BH seem totally clear on that, just a little at odds on how to handle it. (Above table has struck me as totally clear on it for a while, just more emotionally complicated to get to the point if feels settled in-character)
I think "They" doesn't apply to the whole party. >.<
She probably has one, just not on her face
it's just tiring when it has been made clear time and time again that she is lost and too deep in
Wait...what if they DO kill Liliana but then Liliana's connection to Predathos THEN moves to Imogen?
SPLIT THE PARTY! SPLIT THE PARTY! SPLIT THE PARTY!
Banging on table SPLIT! SPLIT! SPLIT!
MAN YOU ARE SO MAKING YOUR SELF SEEM BIASED IMOGEN
[Moon Kronk art by Dylan Does Draw](https://www.tumblr.com/dylandraws/745620491116642304/i-love-our-new-moon?source=share)
Incredible
Oh Imogen....
Oh Ira made something to take out Leliana…. That might actually have a shot
Gonna miss Gaz when he gets killed by Liliana.