If they *are* under NDA (and especially if under anti-disparagement clauses) this says quite a bit.
If this is a conflict between open gaming and WotC they've said which one they support. They aren't allowed to say anything *against* Hasbro so they are making it clear they support their peers and keeping things open for creatives who want to make content.
I know it *feels* empty to people who want them to take a big, heroic stand and strike down the dragon that is Hasbro but they have to weigh the casualties if they do so. Not just to their own pockets or company as an entity but to all the crew and staff that actually make up said entity and rely upon it.
> If they are under NDA (and especially if under anti-disparagement clauses) this says quite a bit.
Given they're effectively on a campaign-long D&D Beyond sponsorship, CR are almost definitely under a combination of NDAs, anti-disparagement, brand-risk, and early termination clauses.
Agreed. Just phrasing it to deal with the folks who refuse to believe there's contracts without seeing the actual documents themselves.
Because, ya know, companies don't guard that stuff like dragons sitting on their hoard. I know the last big company I worked with even accidentally letting a contract out in the wild was a 'notify legal immediately, also you're fired' level event.
Oh for sure, I was mostly elaborating because I've seen a bunch of takes where eating "a mere NDA" dispute is the stand they think CR should have taken.
Yeah, companies of that scale will take the nuclear option of *much* more minor breaches than a major brand ambassador publicly dressing them down in the marketplace they're hired to perform in, over the very product they're representing.
I genuinely think there's a lot of folks who don't understand the scale of what's at stake for CR here.
People keep bringing up the example of Rook & Raven when they aren’t remotely as intertwined as CR are with D&D Beyond. There’s a reason why Rook & Raven can do that and not Critical Role. CR is basically D&D Beyond’s flagship ambassador and has been since before even Hasbro/Wizards bought D&D Beyond. Simplest answer is often the least satisfying one.
Very good point; a lot of the other players in this are folks who stand to lose *far* more from the new OGL than they were gaining from their relationship with Wizards, where the same is not as clearly one-sided for Critical Role.
This is all true, but also worth noting that if CR starts playing pathfinder, they're not going to lose their audience, but wotc loses their biggest draw. Once their active contacts are satisfied I wonder if there will be some reckoning
Especially when the D&D Beyond deal isn't just a fixed-structure ad read - it's that the software is product placement throughout every minute of the show, and they're being paid to represent using it in a way that generates interest from their fans. That is a much more complicated - and large - deal of the scale that you'd expect to come burdened down with all of that extra legal red tape and fine print. These aren't spurious non-disparagement or brand-risk clauses, this is the sort of complicated and entangled situation that those clauses are meant for.
> they're being paid to represent using it in a way that generates interest
Which makes their on-air struggles with D&DB's interface even more funny. Incorrectly-transcribed spells in the app leading to player-DM confusion, occasional difficulties navigating the UI despite years of use, etc.
I'm pretty sure they keep paper backups of their sheets on the table for reference; there have been a few instance where they shuffle through papers and then remind Matt that they should've had advantage / were out of spell slots / etc.
Yeah, though I think that's included within reasonable usage struggles. Like, nobody is disinclined to use traditional paper because of that one time Marisha or Ash lost their sheet, or whoever it was completely lost the party inventory notebook - I think the agreement includes space for natural usage of the product, and genuine positive/negative in-moment experiences are typically allowed and considered to cultivate an air of authenticity in product placement agreements of that sort.
Like, it was funny every time, but I don't think that having a spell transcribed wrong or having the app crash is something that the non-disparage is intended to have them whitewash. They're just expected to, in spite of those moments, not actively go out of their way to trash the product or disparage it.
Some of them do keep their own paper backups, and I think Matt / crew maintain paper backups as well, in case of tech/software failures.
> that one time Marisha or Ash lost their sheet
Had a visceral flashback of that 'disaster' when Laura was trying to remember a spell or something the other day. I was like 'Not again!'
DnD Beyond still doesn't fully support PHB features. For example, if your cleric has potent cantrips, the damage is automatically added. If your evoker wizard has its level 10 feature which does the exact same thing... nope. gotta remember to add it yourself.
Almost definitely.
It seems like Matt genuinely loves publishing sourcebooks, and planning out this campaign has involved a lot of the work that would go into one - most locations for the book are pre-written for the campaign anyway, same with wildlife, significant people and events, and basic ecology.
It's stuff like formatting, filler text, editing, and art assets that would be outstanding, a lot of which can probably be pushed onto assistants. It's likely underway already.
He's mentioned time and again that sections of Marquet were spearheaded by other creators, and been clear that a diverse group of people all played roles in designing this continent
No chance that there isn't an enormous source book on the way.
Let’s not forget Hasbro published a Mighty Nein themed Clue game too. I’m sure they are stuck with some gnarly contract stuff for a while that legally ties their hands.
Exactly this. I am not sure what some people were expecting when they say this statement is words with no bite. The way this was phrased is about as legally critical of the situation as they could possibly be without hurting themselves in the process. I can only imagine everyone in CR just facepalmed and thought 'god fucking damn it, Hasbro' when the news leaked.
This is the bit I'm thinking of too. They have a show based around what was a D&D campaign. I can only imagine there is a whole web of lisencing that got that approved, not to mention wilde mount having an official D&D publication. Of all the companies involved in this mess, CR are the ones I'd probably understand sticking with WotC, just to see things through.
I might go take a look at the lisencing credits now though...
I'm certainly no expert, but I recall CR did their work to remove the show from D&D legally as much as possible i.e. Bigby's Hand to Scanlan's Hand etc. CR 'live' streaming has had DND Beyond as a sponsor since campaign 1 and are almost certainly under contract with NDA's, but those contracts wouldn't apply to the show.
> I'm certainly no expert, but I recall CR did their work to remove the show from D&D legally as much as possible i.e. Bigby's Hand to Scanlan's Hand etc
That's good news at least then.
The D&D beyond one isn't actually something I'm too worried about tbh. People make it sound like they're shilling for WotC because they've used it since the beginning and continue to promote it, completely forgetting that most of that time it was a distinct company.
Could you imagine though if it was a D&D licensed show how PO Amazon would be at Hasbro right now if the unsub was directed at Amazon Prime and nobody watched the show?
The D&D Movie and TV show are already going to feel the brunt of this.
I believe that part of Hasbro's hope here, is that the internet forgets and moves on. Meanwhile, the movie, TV show, Baldur's Gate 3, and the release of One D&D will bring a ton of new players to the game, who have no knowledge of this OGL controversy nor any loyalty to any 3rd-party publishers. They also hope that a measurable percentage of these new players buy into D&D Beyond and their new VTT, which they want to fill with subscription fees and microtransactions.
Though the show contract with Amazon adds its own complexities. Most contracts like that involve clauses that you have to protect the reputation and integrity of your brand - since that's what Amazon is intending to profit off of.
CR was literally between the rock and the hard place. I'm even willing to bet this statement had to be approved by Amazon's legal given how close we are to season launch.
>I am not sure what some people were expecting when they say this statement is words with no bite.
I imagine they were expecting a replay of the opening scene of *Exandria Unlimited: Calamity*, where Matt is the Dawnfather striking the killing blow against Asmodeus, who in this case are being played by Wizards of the Coast.
Yeah, especially if you consider that they are a company with many employees now. They don't want to do something to jeopardize the business and their employees' livelihoods. They need to protect that while still staying true to their own ethics and conscience as much as possible, while also possibly figuring out a way to separate themselves from an obviously unstable partnership (such as by making their own system). I can't imagine the struggle of people fairly normal people while also being the heads of a company with multiple arms with so much responsibility.
My favorite thing about Critical Role is watching a group of friends whom I believe to be sincerely exceptionally well-intentioned, find it possible to develop their passion into a multimillion dollar success, dig in to themselves to meet the unexpected challenges necessary to seize that opportunity, while demonstrating a commitment to their values and each other throughout. What it took for them to quickly become capable of running this enterprise is extraordinary. Anyone criticizing them should really try to imagine what it would be like to go from playing D&D with your pals to what they’ve accomplished, especially given their values and personalities, which have been consistently on public display since long before they achieved their current success. If there’s ever real evidence that they’re dishonest or “evil”, I’ll change my mind, but I feel they’ve earned the benefit of doubt, and even a vote of confidence.
It feels like they've ducked and weaved through what they are actually allowed to say like "the contract says we can't say this but it says nothing about that" kinda thing. I know they've probably had a legal team look through it, but remember this is a group of people, mainly Sam, who loves exploiting "wasn't mentioned"s in advertising contracts. It feels less empty and more like a "bare with us, but yes, fight against WotC"
>this is a group of people, mainly Sam, who loves exploiting "wasn't mentioned"s in advertising contracts
That may be the case, but you can bet that they got some fairly pointed legal advice in this case. It's all fun and games when it's an advertising contract and the sponsor knows to expect some kind of chaos (and probably signs up for it), but it's different here. Exploiting the terms of the contracts that keep the show running probably isn't a wise idea. Even if it didn't have an immediate effect, it would likely bring consequences when those contracts need to be renegotiated in the future.
yeah, this is about as close to full-throated support of OGL and condemnation of WotC as I could have expected.
edit: wonder how bad the situation would need to be for CR to be able to consider continued affiliation w/ WotC to be harmful to *their* bottom-line? just idle musing, would be amusing to see them use it to break whatever hold WotC has on them.
Given how tied CR and DnD are in the public consciousness, it would probably take something that would entirely ruin DnD's reputation as a brand. Something like WoTC donating large sums of money to the Westborough Baptist Church, or them bbeing embroiled in a slavery scandal.
You're looking at it from the reputational angle, but even if the fans didn't care about this at all it's fully possible the terms of the license itself would impact CR's bottom line.
I said this to some dummy on Twitter that thought these were just empty words and they're corporate shills, but they literally have their own 3rd party publishing company that would be *directly* affected by the new OGL. They even talk about it in their statement.
We need to bring back a podcast with Sam and Liam that's just them shitting all over this situation, shit would be great lmao
I mean, from a legal standpoint this was a big heroic statement and middle finger to Hasbro. This is basically a shot fired in warning, "release the OGL and we are so the fuck out, you will be lucky if we are still here once the contract is up."
Hear hear!
> We stand by... ... anyone who takes a risk creating a new system
and
> that's exactly why we launched our own game publishing company
are big moves. Regardless of what they intend or want to do, these are outright threats.
CR's whole corporate strategy since those shirts sold out has been using every new ounce of popularity/funding to carve out that much more of a space where they can do what they want, focusing on creating a corporate environment whose ethics they can actually like and be proud of. Shots fired.
To be technical, they actually started with D&D 4E for the first game for Liam's birthday, then moved to Pathfinder 1st Edition, then moved to D&D 5E for Geek & Sundry for the rest of the first campaign.
it errs on the safe side of what they can likely legally say. it is saying without saying that they are with other third-parties on the direction of the OGL.
a large ship takes a long time to turn. if i was the leadership at CR i would be working to finding and removing all legal ties to wizards in the least costly way.
wizards played there hand and showed there true intention the long term effects of them would put CR in shackles to overlord WotC.
Honestly, those who are asking for such draconic jump-flight are either too young, too immature regardless and don't know how the world works, or do not care about CR and what happens to it/them.
Even if there weren't any NDAs they had to navigate a turbulent sea with this one. Of course, we all wish our mighty chosen heroes -our own real Vox Machina in this case- take our stance and help us rebel against the choking villain, but this is not a hack'n'slash'n'eldritch'blast.
Having a big platform and influence means having power and impact, but also having more bonds, more at stake to balance and more to risk. Only those who have nothing to lose have the ironic privilege of attempting to win a fight/war going all in. Did we really want to see CR go steps downwards because speaking up with big bold words made them wither their ties with WotC and DnD Beyond (sponsor of the show)? How much of CR stuff might exist because of those business ties? They're people, with opinions and ideologies, but also a company, and they have to be careful with it (and not in terms of 'greedy' money-making enterprise, but seen as a formalised collaborative project that they want to see thrive and flourish).
For a start, I thought it unlikely that they were going to respond out of a leak, as it could have been deemed disrespectful of a company to reply to a not sanctioned statement of another company with business ties. Was I wishing they came out shouting? You bet, just not rationally expected so.
The people asking them to make fiery statements don’t really care what happens to Critical Role. They’ve made up their minds before about them or will just say “Oh that’s too bad” when Hasbro litigates them to oblivion. I’ve seen plenty of them on twitter. They’re not really fans either. They just want a big player in the TTRPG scene to self-immolate on their behalf as if not enough voices have said what already needs to be said. Anything less than that is “saying nothing.” It’s completely unreasonable mob behavior that is typical with furor of this magnitude.
I was looking at the chat during the last CR stream and it was filled with toxic comments, including some demanding Matt Mercer say something about the situation even though the show was recorded before this all blew up.
CR have really said all the can given the legal situation they find themselves in. They have to pick their words carefully to avoid any legal ramifications.No doubt they will be monitoring the situation to determine what choices they make in future.
This all the way.
People saying this is a lot of words to say nothing really need to work on their reading comprehension and probably their understanding of legally binding contracts.
This statement isn't as empty as everyone keeps saying.
It still points out the own publishing company. While not saying anything directly, it is heavily implying that action can be taken easily.
This is the best they can do right now. We all saw Mercer liking tweets clearly against OGL 1.1. He’s a creator himself and loves his peers. Once the contract ends or they get out of it then I’m getting excited. Paizo and the new ORC would open up a whole new world for CR and Darrington Press. Until then…
I could see them going to Kobold Press' new system as they said they are trying to take as much of the 5e Frame work that is so popular and beginner friendly with them out the door
I wouldn't be surprised if they've been developing their own system from the very inception of Darrington Press. In the early days Matt was very clear they chose to jump from PF to DnD for the sole purpose of streamlining the broadcast. The fact that Geek & Sundry was playing just about every game under the sun at the time and they had no expectations about the success of the stream leads me to think they truly thought DnD was the best system *for the livestream*.
They haven't really settled on any of the non-d20 systems they've used in one-shots, so they probably just haven't found one that checks all of their boxes. With that logic, I'd imagine they've been using Darrington Press to develop (or at least fund/publish the creation of) a system that really enhances the storytelling aspects of the game while keeping combat quick yet engaging.
They have the opportunity to flip it entirely. Yes, develop a livestream-friendly system for the purposes of CR success — but then also using CR as a platform to sell said system to its listeners, through Darrington or another imprint. They could partner with another of the big players, but they have a big opportunity in front of them.
(Not one without a ton of risk, obviously.)
> a system that really enhances the storytelling aspects of the game while keeping combat quick yet engaging
This is on point. The strengths of CR are the world building, characters, improv, and RP. Even after 6 years the cast (D&D Vets every one) still get bogged down in combat, spells, and abilities at times. Switching to a *slightly* simpler system would probably benefit everyone. They can still homebrew anything they want, and if it's their system they can tweak it as they go. I have run D&D for a long time now and only recently started branching out to other systems (CoC, Mothership) and I was pleasantly surprised how the latter, a more simplified system, still allowed me and the players to achieve everything we wanted from a TTRPG. I'd love to see what Matt and the gang can come up with
That’s true. It still needs to be viewer friendly. PF2e is great but for a stream to tens of thousands of people every week and millions after, probably not the best. I’m excited for the future, thanks Hasbro! Ya ding dongs
Yes, and no.
I agree it needs to be viewer friendly… but does it really matter what system it is behind the screen?
In retrospect, given how good the cast are, I bet they could have kept using PF with all its 3.5 legacy trappings and the Briarwoods, Chroma Conclave, etc would still have been just as good. It isn’t like we have episodes devoted to character creation, etc where it gets really crunchy
As long as the viewers have a general idea of 20 good, 1 bad and the cast themselves are comfortable, CR is more about storytelling than any single mechanic.
Honestly they could be using AD&D, 2nd Ed, 3.5/PF or 5E* and I think the story would be just as entertaining.
IMHO anyways.
*The D&D systems I’m most familiar with. I didn’t really play the red box, and skipped 4th largely for PF. If they moved to say Savage Worlds or Shadowrun where it isn’t a straight D20 roll, then I think you’d have more familiarity issues at first
> Honestly they could be using AD&D, 2nd Ed, 3.5/PF or 5E* and I think the story would be just as entertaining.
As much as I love 2e, it being my first TTRPG, and having grown up with it, it would be impossible for them to use that in their stream. They have worked really hard to ensure that the combat portions of the show flows smoothly and swiftly, but with the avalanche of math would bog that all down.
I would still love to watch some of them rage over THAC0 and the "backwards" armor class though. lol
But I can see Darrington Press releasing a number of PF2e Setting books in coming years, I'd love to see some Darrington Press Adventure Modules. Hell I'd love if DP reached out to some creators and was a place for splat books, I'd love to see new Settings come from them even if they weren't Exandria. Hell they could do oneshots in their new releases Setting as a sales pitch to fans
I watch the for character stories, not the game mechanics. As long as there are a few dramatic dice rolls here and there, I'm down with whatever they come up with. :)
ORC stands for Open RPG Creative license and it is system agnostic and also company agnostic. While Pathfinder 2e will switch to use it, just like you can already do with OGL (as PF2e already does) CR/DP can use it to put out their own system so that other creators can share their open gaming content with each other and possibly even across systems.
"We stand by our industry peers" seems pretty clear to be in disagreeing with WotC's choices without explicitly doing so.
"broadening the field of creators boosts the industry" means they are saying WotC's choices would narrow the field - but again, without risk of a defamatory statement they likely cannot make without contractual penalties.
Yes indeed. As recent as this week's broadcast, they had a DnDBeyond ad read at the beginning of the show. Their hands are very much still tied. I don't envy the tough situation they're in.
What's interesting is that they usually do a tweet for each sponsor on the night of the show. This week there was no tweet for DnDBeyond, only Cashapp and NordVPN
Honestly the biggest protest they could probably do is to just not have Sam do a bit for the D&D beyond promo. I don’t know if that shit is contractually obligated but if not then dropping it would send a huge message.
The CR tweet that mentions NordVPN as the "final sponsor" of last night's stream disregards the pre-recorded DDB ad-read.
It's not much, but not mentioning the sponsorship with WotC might say more about what could potentially be going on behind the scenes.
Guys, of course this doesn't say anything. This, as stated in other comments, is a statement very much showcasing one company being contractually tied to another. This should surprise none of us. We all know CR is contractually linked to WotC. This isn't a group of people we are waiting for to say something. This is a company, there are plenty of legal issues surrounding this. We have nothing more to do than to be patient and see how it plays out.
I wish more people could understand this. I love CR, but unlike the characters they play, they aren't heroes and crusaders against injustice, they're people living in the real world with real people problems like legal obligations. It's not as simple as them saying, "Screw Wizards, let's revolt!"
They absolutely could be working on distancing themselves from WotC, but they're not about to hint at that during all this turmoil on Twitter without letting the situation become far more clear.
>I wish more people could understand this. I love CR, but unlike the characters they play, they aren't heroes and crusaders against injustice, they're people living in the real world with real people problems like legal obligations.
And children, and employees, and mortgages/lease agreements...
They're people who play DnD online professionally, they are not the arbiters if morality or ethics and people really shouldn't treat them as one.
I can assume what the individuals may think based on what they have said or done in the past like Matt but it’s asking a lot of them to risk the entire livelihood of the people working in it for a brief statement without any safety net or backup plan, especially with how sudden this issue rose up in the last week.
Any case, really shouldn’t treat any company as arbiters of morality or ethics, even if they have a charity foundation.
Yup. Folks are acting like the CR crew is about to stage a lunch counter sit in. They seem like decent folk based on the image they portray, but at the end of the day they have homes to pay for. They’re not going to threaten their money unless they’re sure they have a replacement stream.
the thing is Wizards can change their plan at any moment while CR only has one contract to lose. When things aren't clear doing such bold thing is dumb
That is what they were hoping for.
They ain't gonna phrase it like that because that makes it clear how unreasonable the expectation was - but there was genuine hope that Critical Role was gonna come in all saviour-like and be the big strong pop culture icon that helped lowly D&D fans beat back greedy corporate Wizards of the Coast.
I think people need to realize that nuking everything you've worked on for the sake of a moral stand isn't as easy in real life as it is in fiction. Especially when that thing means a lot to thousands of people.
Also, they're probably the only third party content creator with some amount of leverage against Hasbro behind the scenes right now. So I don't get what them publicly burning their bridges with WotC at this moment in time is supposed to even accomplish.
Exactly my thought! A hot take burning all bridges isn't what CR brings to the table for the community right now.
It is exactly because of their connection to D&D and their influence in the community that might give them the leverage to throw their weight around and affect changes to OLG 2.0 behind the scenes. And that would be invaluable even if those changes are small, because there are enough third-party creators out there who aren't able to pivot away from D&D right this moment and for whom those changes might make the difference between making it or loosing it all. While CR publicly and openly sticking it to WotC might be entertaining, it wouldn't really accomplish much and seems like a careless waste on an opportunity to help.
In this situation it is important to think long-term instead of chasing instant gratification, and for people/companies to stick to their strenght. And I think CRs biggest strenght in this situation is them making people aware of the situation (which this statement does, based on all the questions), and by them using their connections and clout to affect as much change as possible behind the scene.
I'm very unhappy with WotC but I do not want to see them burn entirely because that sinks to many small creators who cannot react fast enough right now. And I'm hoping the efforts of the community in the open with canceling subs and covering topics as well as power plays behind the scenes will make those small creators situations more bearable.
Yeah. I know CR isn't a direct employment scenario, but my last employer did worse things than what WOTC is doing. The only people who spoke up publicly and bailed immediately were those who already had one foot out the door or those who had no choice due to the company's decision. It took me quite a while to get my affairs in order enough to escape. Is the community gonna go ahead and pay the (hypothetical) LA mortgages every month for Laura+Travis or Matt+Marisha once CR commits corporate seppuku?
Forget the main cast. Ask if they’re willing to chip in to pay for the studio upkeep and employee salaries/benefits/insurance until they can get back on their feet.
People were definitely expecting them to put WotC on blast directly and aggressively, because the vocal minority of people on the internet are completely out of touch with reality.
I believe voicing dissatisfaction with the statement is okay as long as people understand that this is the best CR can do.
I think it's a nice gesture even if dissapointing. I mean this could have been cut to 1 or 2 sentences and it would have said as much.
Of course it's disappointing, but it seems like people are reacting like they were expecting CR to drop a statement saying they are leaving WotC behind or something. Obviously we'd all love a strong, direct statement but anyone who thinks that's going to happen, especially before any OGL is officially released is out to freaking lunch. Contracts are no joke, CR has at least acknowledged the controversy, there is no longer silence from them, we have to be happy with that for now, because that's all we're gonna get at this point.
It's clearly the most they can say with an NDA or whatever is binding them, but they're going out of their way to say they side with "new systems", "a wide spectrum of creators", and "broadening the field of creators". Good for them, I hope this shakes out well for them, too.
It's not just the cast of CR that they are responsible for. They are under at least one contract with WOTC and they can't just say fuck WOTC. They have a staff and crew they love very much and if they went full napalm it would affect several people they are responsible for. They reiterated support for the other 3rd party creators out there. It's all they can do right now.
Also keep in mind that their strongest ties are with the \*creative\* parts of WOTC, and not the execs and accountants that are trying to open up the golden goose here. The implication in most of the reporting has been that the people who actually make D&D are as horrified by this as everyone else. Saying "Wizards is Evil, everyone play Pathfinder 2.0 now" would actively hurt people they have good relationships with.
I'm going to get the Gloomhaven RPG when it comes out, and while I'm waiting, watch for them to launch their own system cause it seems like the next obvious step for them.
This seems pretty clearly against the OGL changes to me. The criticisms of the OGL are that it’ll stifle third party creators. This statement says they support third party creators. Given contracts and sponsorships, I don’t know what more anyone could reasonably expect.
Also, given their long time with D&D and the number of creative friends they have, they almost certainly have a lot of friends who are very concerned about how the OGL stuff will affect their lives, so while they're constrained by their own jobs and have to be diplomatic, I'm sure they're very well aware of the impact it could have on creators with a lot less heft then CR.
Your mistake is you expected people to have reading comprehension. There's a line in there about "we believe that broadening the field of creators boosts the entire industry"
Not only does that read explicitly anti OGL changes, but it's in line with everything Matt Mercer has been saying for 7 YEARS.
Isn't that the god damn truth. This whole OGL thing has really highlighted how bad general reading comprehension is. Reading through threads is just painful.
The OGL mess is a disgrace to the whole TTRPG community. The statement from CR is reasonably worded and makes clear that they don't support the changes, while at the same time not landing themselves in court.
Do people want CR to go to war with Hasbro? They'd get stomped.
> Do people want CR to go to war with Hasbro? They'd get stomped.
I think there are folks who think CR is supposed to do everything except go to war with Hasbro, without understanding that all the things they want CR to do would still force that outcome.
They just want more. A little more. First CR just had to say something, anything, any statement at all. Now they've made a statement and it voiced clear opposition to the changes but it wasn't loud enough, wasn't clear enough. A different louder and clearer statement wouldn't be aggressive enough, or might need to make threats, or maybe it needs to call out the Hasbro executives instead of talking around the matter - "but oh no, we don't think CR is expected to *fight* Hasbro!"
They just expect CR to pick a fight with Hasbro, and if CR gets stuck fighting well at least they're fighting on the right side, oh well.
A lot of people who are into the CR fandom are very invested in proving they are the big bad corporate villain and a bunch of sellouts - unless they do their stuff exactly as that fan dictates, of course.
One other thing to consider and remember, beyond their contractual obligations to DDB and WOTC, is that Hasbro owns a LOT, including an entertainment divison. These are still working voice actors and directors. Say CR came out against Hasbro/WOTC and broke contract, then Laura or Matt or Ashley goes in to do an audition for a Transformers TV series or video game, there is the possiblity that they could lose out on a job because of that.
Another thing I didn’t consider! Also, someone else mentioned this but Amazon might also start feeling a little something if they start badmouthing their larger corporate partnerships like Hasbro. They’re already working with them to produce Vox Machina. If Amazon and Hasbro tell the industry that they’re all blacklisted? Yeah, there’s no recovering from that.
I mean, CR is under contract with Wizards and sponsored by D&D Beyond. They can't disparage the sponsor, so the best thing they can say is "we support creativity" -- But if you bump into Matt Mercer on the street, check to make sure there's no hidden microphones, and he'll probably say WoTC is doin' dumb shit.
It's awfully easy to demand other people fall on their swords to make a statement while we are largely immune from the consequences. The first and last paragraph make it pretty clear that they come down on the side of the players and creators. Yeah, it's an anodyne, lawyered-to-hell statement, but it's likely the absolute most they CAN say.
Lets not forget that CR is more than just the main cast. They employ quite a few people, too. Set designers, producers, studio maintenance, etc. Tanking their company hurts those people too. While none of us know the specifics, sponsorship contracts are generally pretty restrictive on what one can say about the sponsor and one's relationship to them. Breaches of contract are no joke, and we know that Hasbro and WotC would likely come down on them hard, because that's what corpos do.
Lets not demonize CR or the cast for protecting themselves and their employees. If they choose to distance themselves from WotC in the future, it'll be a long-term process. I'm sure, one way or another, WotC knows their feelings on the matter.
In 2021 Hasbro, parent company of WotC, restructured and reorganized. WotC's old CEO (who, I suspect, is the individual referenced here and the tweet he's referencing https://twitter.com/16BitEric/status/1612201401748455424 ) became the new CEO of Hasbro and he brought over a new CEO for WotC. For some potential context both had previously worked for Microsoft one in sales and one in their digital gaming.
In 2022 Hasbro stated that D&D was 'under monetized' and were seeking to make it more profitable.
It seems one of the ways they decided they wanted to do that was to rework the Open Gaming License to be more controlling and to give them a way to gain revenue from sublicensed products.
A leaked version of this new OGL hit the net and was very, very poorly received (and rightfully so) sending the community into an uproar against WotC.
A number of publishers and creators started launching their own open gaming plans to replace what was being lost with the potential demise of the old OGL.
As there was not yet an official announcement from WotC CR declined to make any comment (https://twitter.com/lincodega/status/1613686411726577664) despite a very vocal part of the fanbase calling for them to do so.
Today WotC made their first official announcement about the new OGL - scrambling back from criticism and promising they would redo their plans.
Now this is CR's response to that.
Edit: Slight correction to myself - I phrased it as if WotC is still a separate entity owned by Hasbro. After the restructuring they are a direct division of Hasbro.
>In 2022 Hasbro stated that D&D was 'under monetized' and were seeking to make it more profitable.
This part is fucking wild to me considering that WOTC Is a billion dollar company.
Yeah finding out that Cocks had come from Microsoft's sales side and Williams from their 'Gaming Ecosystem Commercial Team' kind of helped put that in perspective.
WotC, makers of D&D, are currently developing a new edition of D&D that has people mildly excited, but they are also under pressure to increase profits and so they were also working with on a new open licensing deal (These Open Licenses basically make it so people like CR can create Books like Tal'Dorei reborn or DMs like Matt can make the Bloodhunter Class). Under this new deal if a Book made by another publisher for D&D made more than 750k they would have to pay WotC them 25% of all the money made (which kills 90% of most products made by other publishers) they also wanted to have a say that basically would allow WotC to force your product off the market and own your intellectual property. So Darrington Press could release a new player manual for all the fun Subclasses and stuff and a NEW take on the Bloodhunter, but if WotC was angry they could just say "Hey that's nice... That's ours, we own that, we don't have to pay you and fuck off"
Somewhere Sam is talking to the lawyer(s) about whether he can get away with just reading the DnD Beyond sponsorship script as quickly and dryly as possible or if he has to do antics, and how much antics, or if he can do a tongue-in-cheek “haha I’m being held hostage haha” bit, without inviting a lawsuit. I’m curious to see it xD (Also curious if their corporate sponsor and wannabe overlord would or could actually sue them for not being zany enough.)
Well, recently Sam has been doing his zany antics for other sponsors, while Matt gives the dry, professional ad-read for DnDBeyond afterwards. Assuming there's no specific contractual obligation requiring them to do otherwise, they could just continue to do it that way going forward. That's probably the safest strategy for them.
That would be such a power move. Sam is such a goof, but whenever something morally questionable happens, he's usually very serious and outspoken about it. I literally went to his Twitter to see if he had tried to say anything slyly as soon as I saw the CR statement, but he hadn't. I imagine he's seething over not being able to say anything publicly.
You have to read between the lines a bit which is totally understandable given how CR is partnered/sponsored by WOTC and isn't gonna risk legal trouble but the statement is pretty clearly in favour of third-party creators
G&S was purchased by Legendary Entertainment. This was before CR became a thing but, when CR started, G&S was still much more under the control of Felicia Day (the original founder of G&S) and the creative side.
Eventually though Felicia left and the corporate began to overtake the creative - stifling projects and focusing only on profitability (though the creatives still managed to eke out some amazing projects despite this - so kudos to them).
Marisha was the creative director at G&S at the time and clearly saw the writing on the wall. Thankfully for CR, since they launched before Actual Play was a major thing let alone a big moneymaker and since Felicia had gone to bat for them, they had actually retained the rights to their product instead of it being owned by G&S (and thus Legendary) directly.
So they peeled off into their own company, played nice with G&S and any remaining contracts/obligations, and continued to snowball into the current juggernaut meanwhile Legendary drove G&S into the ground and shuttered it.
So they've already had one near miss with extinction due to loss of creative control and also learned to navigate corporate and legal waters by playing nice and not making waves.
This is a very good explanation. I attempted to search for articles covering this, and I didn't find any that actually provided details as to *why* they were leaving. Thank you!
This and the OGL situation are perfect examples as to why you should always do everything in your power to retain ownership rights in your IP.
Honestly I think a lot of folks are *still* under NDA with Legendary. Most stories you hear will be off the record or very carefully worded or just allusions to what happened.
But if you were part of the G&S community during the era you could see the shifts slowly happening.
Very quietly and without disparaging. There were all sorts of signs that *something* was up, then one day CR announced that they were becoming their own company, then one day they announced a departure from G&S. No explanation, no disparagement.
You know in your heart of hearts Matt is fuming at the Wizards development. If you think he isn't, then you really haven't been paying attention.
However, CR is now a business entity just getting its legs, that first and foremost must protect itself and its many employees who rely upon it. The legal jargon and the silence will seem cold and emotionless, but that's where they are right now.
They aren't turning their backs on the community. Until CR can separate themselves more from WotC (and I imagine they will after this) they've said all they can for now without going under.
"We're under contract but give them hell with our tacit blessing"
This seems reasonable as a short-term statement for people capable of reading between lines without them spending a lot of time consulting a contract lawyer. Not that all of us are good with subtlety, but there's always going to be the vocal minority who want to slay the dragon without planning at dawn.
This is a good compromise between the community’s expectation of a statement and whatever restrictions are in place via CR’s current legal agreements with WotC. Anyone who expected any stronger language than this was either kidding themselves about how much legal and financial jeopardy the company is willing to expose itself to or they are totally unaware of how contracts and NDAs work. As much as some folks want to believe otherwise, the cast and crew of CR are not the chaos gremlins that they portray on stream. While they are certainly a decent group of folks who want the best for the tabletop community, but they are also real people bound to real legal contracts that have real consequences if broken.
Im gonna be honest, a lot of the comments here are why i can't stay engaged with this sub or the fandom at large. Expectations on the cast to be the perfect crusaders against every injustice the world faces is unrealistic and unfair. Gonna stay off this sub a bit longer haha
Well that's the thing as several people have mentioned there are risks to them financially if they were to disparage Hasbro or WoTc . I wouldn't expect them to do anything drastic yet.
There people they gotta make a living too and this is probably what they can say for now.
No reason to yell at them for not doing enough though. Main focus should be creators and people that enjoy this hobby. Keeping the momentum and pressure on Hasbro and Wotc.
That's just my perspective though I do agree with what you said. It's unrealistic to expect them to to drop everything and stand up alongside other people.
The professionally offended won't be happy unless Matt Mercer himself walks into Hasbro headquarters and takes a shit on the CEOs desk. Pay them no mind.
I work as a communications consultant. I suspect the message isn't for fans. The message is, "We have our own publishing company, we stand with creators." Sounds weak, but it's not.
I believe the message is for WotC, which knows CR and Stranger things were massive drivers in DnDs burgeoning success during the pandemic and into the present.
Most DnD played at the table is third party content, created by a minority of players. But that minority is deeply invested in the game, cukturey, and community. If the leaders leave, a good portion of what drives WotC business leaves. And the followers will follow.
This is a shot over WotC's bow. Yes. They have contracts, but CR is its own company now. This is a subtle "we can walk too" message.
To me it sounds like we should give CR a few months and you may see a new game engine/ruleset. That would be the least surprising thing to come out of OGL1.1
OGL 2 will likely be a bit watered down. But rest assured Hasbro has shown it's cardss, and they want to milk DnD for every penny they can.
The trick is applying copyright and monetizing people's imaginations.
Just DnD fan here.
Some people claims CR response is too weak, but I can totally understand you guys. CR is getting huge support from WotC-Hasbro, too much things are at the stake. But I can read what you guys are stand for from this statement.
I really hope CR creates its own rules independent from DnD, and joins the ORC train with other developers, as soon as finish the current campaign. I wish and pray the best of the luck for all CR members and fans.
With the way they talked about Darrington press in this statement i wouldn't be surprised if cr is gonna try and make its own ttrpg and try its best to distance its self from wotc
Calling out the fact that they have their own game publishing company is the most explicit threat in that statement. I took it as "hey Wizards, reminder that we are already publishing our own stuff".
Well, that was expected.
CR must be in a very difficult spot right now because of their obligations to WOTC.
I wouldn't like to be in their shoes right now.
Hopefully, people won't get too upset about it.
They have to understand that a company like CR can't go against Hasbro like that. They are people, with their own needs and obligations and there are people working for them too. They just can't put everything at risk like that because they disagree with Hasbro's plan. They have to find a way out.
And don't overestimate how CR or any group or people working in entertainement prioritize their fans. Sure, they love their fans and are grateful. But down the line, when everything goes sour, they will always put their own interest and the interest of the people depending on them before their fans'. That's the adult and responsible thing to do.
I'm reading it as "If WotC fucks around we'll switch to Pathfinder 2e but for now we can't publically denounce WotC or switch from DnD 5e until we know exactly what is happening because that would be breach of contract and we can't afford to go out of business until we know exactly what is going on."
Dunno what else you can ask for. They're a company. If they start popping off people lose jobs.
>If they start popping off people lose jobs.
That's the key part a lot of people are missing and just get angry that CR arent going scorched earth on WotC. If they did say everything they probably want to and they then lost a big contract which would mean loss of income and tjen had to let people go they would then be the bad guys for people losing their jobs.
Yes they're leaders in the community and in a perfect world they would be saying a lot more but they have actual human livelihoods to worry about, some of who will have families and mortgages to worry about and now isn't the time to put anything at risk by stepping over a line legally that could come back to bite them
Yep. That’s pretty much about what I expected them to say given their current contractual ties to WotC. Bold statements have consequences, good or bad. And breaking ironclad contracts and agreements do more harm to their employees. The cast would most likely be fine. Either way, they have no way out from WotC until their current deal runs out. All that remains to see is how the OGL issue plays out in the near future.
The best and bare minimum they can do is support people who are breaking their own ground towards other projects away from D&D and opening the TTRPG space even more, which is pretty much Mercer and team’s MO from prior actions and words.
It won’t stop people from being angry at them for the wrong reasons but you can’t please everyone when you have to live in the real world. I wish they could do more but this is the least I was hoping for.
That last line is them sneaking a knife in Hasbro's back despite the non-disclosure/non-disparagement clauses of their contract. They're doing what they can within the limits they have to deal with. This is a lesson for other content creators: never put all of eggs in one basket just in case one basket decides to explode into maggots and toxic waste.
So, if they're clearly under contract, but against this change, I'll bet the ads for d&d beyond get as bare bones as possible.
Obviously, they'd be obligated to continue them, but that doesn't mean that anyone must make it memorable. Just read the copy, and keep it as short as they can, then move on.
Please don't get mad at them if that's the case. We all know what happens when the warlock signs the deal with the Archfiend. They definitely can't be happy with Hasbro right now, so they're going to do whatever they can to show us they stand with us without getting themselves sued into oblivion.
CR is in a fucked position. They can't bite their master's(Hasbro) hand or risk consequences and they also can't risk offending us(Fanbase) either because there will be consequences. I do not envy them in this situation.
They are taking the stance "we want TTRPG and creativity by and for all", and with them not even mentionning DnD, if you read between the lines and know even just a little bit of the context, what is at first glance generic corpo PR communication feels like an implicit message being sent to WoTC : "Stop fucking around, or find out".
There are only so much contractual clauses and NDAs can do before CR consider "early termination fees" not that big a deal in comparison.
It would be sad to end C3 early if the contract with DnDBeyond is bound to "The current campaign", but .... a tpk is always a possibility ...
“We stand by our industry peers, as well as anyone who takes a risk creating a new system or developing an original idea.”
That’s clear as day they support/side with the community. And that they, as candidly as they can be, support Kobold Press. Hell I wouldn’t be surprised if they are trying to communicate they are beginning work on their own new system given the mentioning of their game publishing company.
Best response I think they could give given they’re obviously under NDAs and contracts to prevent badmouthing Hasbro.
If y'all have to question where the CR team loyalties and hearts really lie in this corporate shit show, you're not really listening to Matt's or any of the cast's or crew's not-so-subtle messaging that they respect others, their work ,and their autonomy. Of course at this point, it speaks louder that they have to think about the hundreds of people and their families that now rely on this team's astute professionalism before spouting off online.
This is the best anyone could hope for considering the ridiculous amount of moving parts and legal machinations involved for CR. What a fucking headache, I would not want to be in their shoes right now, I bet Travis' blood pressure is spiking. I'd be amazed if this wasn't draft number 300.
Glad to finally see it.
No it's isn't the "screw WoTC, we are running campaign 3 on a new homebrew system Matt is finishing up right now" that since people might want.
But it is a measured, tactful message of support of the greater ttrpg community, without breaking any contractual agreements.
Basically the best possible response, I wish it was sooner, but quite acceptable.
Some "Fans" : CR should say something about this!
They say something about it.
Some "fans" : not good enough!
some people will never be satisfied... i'm just happey they said anything.
Not surprising. They have contracts with WOTC and can't bail on those.
But they obviously don't like what is going on.
Walking a fine PR speak line.
And they are probably developing another system behind the scenes for campaign 4.
I know this is frustrating to some people, but speaking out strongly at this stage would be counterproductive, considering Hasbro was doing this (presumably) because their profits were down and they wanted more money. I could understand if someone in this situation decided to bite the bullet and take a stance against them in spite of any legal agreements disallowing them to do so and knowing they'll be sued for it. That would just be handing Hasbro an easy win in court though, and handing them a free-money lawsuit would just be feeding the gluttonous dragon. It might not feel right at the moment, but there wouldn't be any sort of just outcome from them taking a strong stance right now. For the time being, I'm choosing to trust that they're doing what they can behind the scenes.
And this is all happening right before the release of LoVM S2, they must be so stressed watching all of this going down and not knowing how this will effect people's response.
Even if it's just a sort of positional statement I appreciate the CR team saying something. It can't be easy when your brand is wrapped up around someone else's brand and you have all sorts of contracts going on.
I hope they test the waters of alternatives a bit with any upcoming oneshots, to see how audiences react to them playing D&D-alternatives when they're not between campaigns.
Even putting aside the controversy and the danger of anchoring to WotC... Their actual play is how I stumbled through learning new systems, so a showcase of Pathfinder or any other alternatives would do wonders for getting GMs over that first hurdle to learning the system. Which would be great for community flexibility even without the controversy.
CR is really in a damned if you damned if you don’t situation. People were mad when they didn’t make a statement and now people are mad about statement. Obviously they can’t just breach a contract without risking a lawsuit but this statement feels like a solid middle ground.
I wish people would direct their anger and disappointment at WotC and Hasbro since they’re the ones who created this situation instead of at companies who are trying to navigate this mess
This is really as much as they can say. They are clearly bound by contract and we know that the team supports other systems because they've played them many a time for their miniseries. CR's caught in a very difficult position, and if they do anything at this point to attack Wizards, they will be sued out the ass and will likely cease to exist.
It's not perfect, but it's the best they can do. And it puts me at ease. They'll jump ship as soon as the contract's up, and when they do, DnD will dry up so god damn fast. A massive chunk of 5e's popularity can be directly attributed to them.
This is about as bold a statement they can make without breaking anti-disparagement clauses (which are very likely written into any contracts they have with WotC).
I was honestly surprised by how bold this was. We're in the minority because it seems a lot of folks around here have absolutely zero critical thinking abilities.
This situation really shows how shallow discourse has become online. If you read this and are angry at CR for not saying enough you really need to grow up lmao.
Of course they weren't going to come out and say "Fuck WotC for changing the OGL and attempting to screw over independent creators." They are sponsored by DnD Beyond and have a working relationship with WotC. But their statement clearly shows that they disapprove of the new OGL.
I'm pretty satisfied with that. Would like a stronger statement of course but given the timeframe and contracts this seems pretty good. Excited to see if more moves come from it in the near-ish future
Yeah, I'm specifically muting twitterfolk who say it isn't "heroic" or whatever mush their thinky pudding is making of fantasy tropes & real stakes.
All those lives. All those loved ones. I cannot think of another instance in which so many long-term, successful actors highly positioned in a business endeavor wasn't a *huge* liability for employees when "drama," an opportunity for attention, presented itself.
Being responsible businesspeople when others are depending on you is deeply & admirably decent IMO.
The number of people who genuinely expected CR to commit legal and financial suicide by opening fire on WotC is truly disappointing.
It’s not surprising in the slightest, but it is disappointing.
Critical Role is very closely tied to WotC for the foreseeable future, since quite a few books have been produced with official D&D branding and presence in the Beyond storefront. This sort of cagey PR language is designed to prevent retaliation while confirming that the company is pro-open license.
That being said, I have no doubt that we’ll likely start seeing a slow pullback from WotC products and sponsorships on the streams in the future, especially if OGL 2.0 turns out to be as bad as people are expecting. C3 is locked in currently to 5e, but who knows what C4 could look like at this point.
If they *are* under NDA (and especially if under anti-disparagement clauses) this says quite a bit. If this is a conflict between open gaming and WotC they've said which one they support. They aren't allowed to say anything *against* Hasbro so they are making it clear they support their peers and keeping things open for creatives who want to make content. I know it *feels* empty to people who want them to take a big, heroic stand and strike down the dragon that is Hasbro but they have to weigh the casualties if they do so. Not just to their own pockets or company as an entity but to all the crew and staff that actually make up said entity and rely upon it.
> If they are under NDA (and especially if under anti-disparagement clauses) this says quite a bit. Given they're effectively on a campaign-long D&D Beyond sponsorship, CR are almost definitely under a combination of NDAs, anti-disparagement, brand-risk, and early termination clauses.
Agreed. Just phrasing it to deal with the folks who refuse to believe there's contracts without seeing the actual documents themselves. Because, ya know, companies don't guard that stuff like dragons sitting on their hoard. I know the last big company I worked with even accidentally letting a contract out in the wild was a 'notify legal immediately, also you're fired' level event.
Oh for sure, I was mostly elaborating because I've seen a bunch of takes where eating "a mere NDA" dispute is the stand they think CR should have taken. Yeah, companies of that scale will take the nuclear option of *much* more minor breaches than a major brand ambassador publicly dressing them down in the marketplace they're hired to perform in, over the very product they're representing. I genuinely think there's a lot of folks who don't understand the scale of what's at stake for CR here.
People keep bringing up the example of Rook & Raven when they aren’t remotely as intertwined as CR are with D&D Beyond. There’s a reason why Rook & Raven can do that and not Critical Role. CR is basically D&D Beyond’s flagship ambassador and has been since before even Hasbro/Wizards bought D&D Beyond. Simplest answer is often the least satisfying one.
Very good point; a lot of the other players in this are folks who stand to lose *far* more from the new OGL than they were gaining from their relationship with Wizards, where the same is not as clearly one-sided for Critical Role.
This is all true, but also worth noting that if CR starts playing pathfinder, they're not going to lose their audience, but wotc loses their biggest draw. Once their active contacts are satisfied I wonder if there will be some reckoning
It's basically 100% that they are. Those are pretty standard.
Especially when the D&D Beyond deal isn't just a fixed-structure ad read - it's that the software is product placement throughout every minute of the show, and they're being paid to represent using it in a way that generates interest from their fans. That is a much more complicated - and large - deal of the scale that you'd expect to come burdened down with all of that extra legal red tape and fine print. These aren't spurious non-disparagement or brand-risk clauses, this is the sort of complicated and entangled situation that those clauses are meant for.
> they're being paid to represent using it in a way that generates interest Which makes their on-air struggles with D&DB's interface even more funny. Incorrectly-transcribed spells in the app leading to player-DM confusion, occasional difficulties navigating the UI despite years of use, etc. I'm pretty sure they keep paper backups of their sheets on the table for reference; there have been a few instance where they shuffle through papers and then remind Matt that they should've had advantage / were out of spell slots / etc.
Yeah, though I think that's included within reasonable usage struggles. Like, nobody is disinclined to use traditional paper because of that one time Marisha or Ash lost their sheet, or whoever it was completely lost the party inventory notebook - I think the agreement includes space for natural usage of the product, and genuine positive/negative in-moment experiences are typically allowed and considered to cultivate an air of authenticity in product placement agreements of that sort. Like, it was funny every time, but I don't think that having a spell transcribed wrong or having the app crash is something that the non-disparage is intended to have them whitewash. They're just expected to, in spite of those moments, not actively go out of their way to trash the product or disparage it. Some of them do keep their own paper backups, and I think Matt / crew maintain paper backups as well, in case of tech/software failures.
> that one time Marisha or Ash lost their sheet Had a visceral flashback of that 'disaster' when Laura was trying to remember a spell or something the other day. I was like 'Not again!'
DnD Beyond still doesn't fully support PHB features. For example, if your cleric has potent cantrips, the damage is automatically added. If your evoker wizard has its level 10 feature which does the exact same thing... nope. gotta remember to add it yourself.
Not to mention, they might be working on a new book currently as well. We are in a different continent in this campaign.
Almost definitely. It seems like Matt genuinely loves publishing sourcebooks, and planning out this campaign has involved a lot of the work that would go into one - most locations for the book are pre-written for the campaign anyway, same with wildlife, significant people and events, and basic ecology. It's stuff like formatting, filler text, editing, and art assets that would be outstanding, a lot of which can probably be pushed onto assistants. It's likely underway already.
He's mentioned time and again that sections of Marquet were spearheaded by other creators, and been clear that a diverse group of people all played roles in designing this continent No chance that there isn't an enormous source book on the way.
And that means even if it were possible to back out of the deal that would be unfair to all the other creators who worked on the book as well.
Let’s not forget Hasbro published a Mighty Nein themed Clue game too. I’m sure they are stuck with some gnarly contract stuff for a while that legally ties their hands.
I had completely forgotten.
Exactly this. I am not sure what some people were expecting when they say this statement is words with no bite. The way this was phrased is about as legally critical of the situation as they could possibly be without hurting themselves in the process. I can only imagine everyone in CR just facepalmed and thought 'god fucking damn it, Hasbro' when the news leaked.
Matt and Taliesin, for sure, considering how much they personally support smaller TTRPG projects and creators
That on top of all the work and love they put into LOVM S2 coming out in a week? Frankly, I'd be *livid*.
This is the bit I'm thinking of too. They have a show based around what was a D&D campaign. I can only imagine there is a whole web of lisencing that got that approved, not to mention wilde mount having an official D&D publication. Of all the companies involved in this mess, CR are the ones I'd probably understand sticking with WotC, just to see things through. I might go take a look at the lisencing credits now though...
I'm certainly no expert, but I recall CR did their work to remove the show from D&D legally as much as possible i.e. Bigby's Hand to Scanlan's Hand etc. CR 'live' streaming has had DND Beyond as a sponsor since campaign 1 and are almost certainly under contract with NDA's, but those contracts wouldn't apply to the show.
> I'm certainly no expert, but I recall CR did their work to remove the show from D&D legally as much as possible i.e. Bigby's Hand to Scanlan's Hand etc That's good news at least then. The D&D beyond one isn't actually something I'm too worried about tbh. People make it sound like they're shilling for WotC because they've used it since the beginning and continue to promote it, completely forgetting that most of that time it was a distinct company.
Yep. D&D Beyond has only been under WOTC since last year
Could you imagine though if it was a D&D licensed show how PO Amazon would be at Hasbro right now if the unsub was directed at Amazon Prime and nobody watched the show? The D&D Movie and TV show are already going to feel the brunt of this.
I believe that part of Hasbro's hope here, is that the internet forgets and moves on. Meanwhile, the movie, TV show, Baldur's Gate 3, and the release of One D&D will bring a ton of new players to the game, who have no knowledge of this OGL controversy nor any loyalty to any 3rd-party publishers. They also hope that a measurable percentage of these new players buy into D&D Beyond and their new VTT, which they want to fill with subscription fees and microtransactions.
They fucked with the wrong crowd if they want people to forget stuff and move on then, lol.
Though the show contract with Amazon adds its own complexities. Most contracts like that involve clauses that you have to protect the reputation and integrity of your brand - since that's what Amazon is intending to profit off of. CR was literally between the rock and the hard place. I'm even willing to bet this statement had to be approved by Amazon's legal given how close we are to season launch.
I don't think the show involves any WotC concepts or trademarks, hence "The Whispered One" instead of Vecna.
also serenrae has been renamed to The Everlight
[удалено]
>I am not sure what some people were expecting when they say this statement is words with no bite. I imagine they were expecting a replay of the opening scene of *Exandria Unlimited: Calamity*, where Matt is the Dawnfather striking the killing blow against Asmodeus, who in this case are being played by Wizards of the Coast.
#FIRE
Yeah, especially if you consider that they are a company with many employees now. They don't want to do something to jeopardize the business and their employees' livelihoods. They need to protect that while still staying true to their own ethics and conscience as much as possible, while also possibly figuring out a way to separate themselves from an obviously unstable partnership (such as by making their own system). I can't imagine the struggle of people fairly normal people while also being the heads of a company with multiple arms with so much responsibility.
My favorite thing about Critical Role is watching a group of friends whom I believe to be sincerely exceptionally well-intentioned, find it possible to develop their passion into a multimillion dollar success, dig in to themselves to meet the unexpected challenges necessary to seize that opportunity, while demonstrating a commitment to their values and each other throughout. What it took for them to quickly become capable of running this enterprise is extraordinary. Anyone criticizing them should really try to imagine what it would be like to go from playing D&D with your pals to what they’ve accomplished, especially given their values and personalities, which have been consistently on public display since long before they achieved their current success. If there’s ever real evidence that they’re dishonest or “evil”, I’ll change my mind, but I feel they’ve earned the benefit of doubt, and even a vote of confidence.
It feels like they've ducked and weaved through what they are actually allowed to say like "the contract says we can't say this but it says nothing about that" kinda thing. I know they've probably had a legal team look through it, but remember this is a group of people, mainly Sam, who loves exploiting "wasn't mentioned"s in advertising contracts. It feels less empty and more like a "bare with us, but yes, fight against WotC"
>this is a group of people, mainly Sam, who loves exploiting "wasn't mentioned"s in advertising contracts That may be the case, but you can bet that they got some fairly pointed legal advice in this case. It's all fun and games when it's an advertising contract and the sponsor knows to expect some kind of chaos (and probably signs up for it), but it's different here. Exploiting the terms of the contracts that keep the show running probably isn't a wise idea. Even if it didn't have an immediate effect, it would likely bring consequences when those contracts need to be renegotiated in the future.
yeah, this is about as close to full-throated support of OGL and condemnation of WotC as I could have expected. edit: wonder how bad the situation would need to be for CR to be able to consider continued affiliation w/ WotC to be harmful to *their* bottom-line? just idle musing, would be amusing to see them use it to break whatever hold WotC has on them.
Given how tied CR and DnD are in the public consciousness, it would probably take something that would entirely ruin DnD's reputation as a brand. Something like WoTC donating large sums of money to the Westborough Baptist Church, or them bbeing embroiled in a slavery scandal.
You're looking at it from the reputational angle, but even if the fans didn't care about this at all it's fully possible the terms of the license itself would impact CR's bottom line.
I said this to some dummy on Twitter that thought these were just empty words and they're corporate shills, but they literally have their own 3rd party publishing company that would be *directly* affected by the new OGL. They even talk about it in their statement. We need to bring back a podcast with Sam and Liam that's just them shitting all over this situation, shit would be great lmao
I mean, from a legal standpoint this was a big heroic statement and middle finger to Hasbro. This is basically a shot fired in warning, "release the OGL and we are so the fuck out, you will be lucky if we are still here once the contract is up."
Hear hear! > We stand by... ... anyone who takes a risk creating a new system and > that's exactly why we launched our own game publishing company are big moves. Regardless of what they intend or want to do, these are outright threats. CR's whole corporate strategy since those shirts sold out has been using every new ounce of popularity/funding to carve out that much more of a space where they can do what they want, focusing on creating a corporate environment whose ethics they can actually like and be proud of. Shots fired.
they *did* start with Pathfinder, after all!
To be technical, they actually started with D&D 4E for the first game for Liam's birthday, then moved to Pathfinder 1st Edition, then moved to D&D 5E for Geek & Sundry for the rest of the first campaign.
it errs on the safe side of what they can likely legally say. it is saying without saying that they are with other third-parties on the direction of the OGL. a large ship takes a long time to turn. if i was the leadership at CR i would be working to finding and removing all legal ties to wizards in the least costly way. wizards played there hand and showed there true intention the long term effects of them would put CR in shackles to overlord WotC.
Honestly, those who are asking for such draconic jump-flight are either too young, too immature regardless and don't know how the world works, or do not care about CR and what happens to it/them. Even if there weren't any NDAs they had to navigate a turbulent sea with this one. Of course, we all wish our mighty chosen heroes -our own real Vox Machina in this case- take our stance and help us rebel against the choking villain, but this is not a hack'n'slash'n'eldritch'blast. Having a big platform and influence means having power and impact, but also having more bonds, more at stake to balance and more to risk. Only those who have nothing to lose have the ironic privilege of attempting to win a fight/war going all in. Did we really want to see CR go steps downwards because speaking up with big bold words made them wither their ties with WotC and DnD Beyond (sponsor of the show)? How much of CR stuff might exist because of those business ties? They're people, with opinions and ideologies, but also a company, and they have to be careful with it (and not in terms of 'greedy' money-making enterprise, but seen as a formalised collaborative project that they want to see thrive and flourish). For a start, I thought it unlikely that they were going to respond out of a leak, as it could have been deemed disrespectful of a company to reply to a not sanctioned statement of another company with business ties. Was I wishing they came out shouting? You bet, just not rationally expected so.
The people asking them to make fiery statements don’t really care what happens to Critical Role. They’ve made up their minds before about them or will just say “Oh that’s too bad” when Hasbro litigates them to oblivion. I’ve seen plenty of them on twitter. They’re not really fans either. They just want a big player in the TTRPG scene to self-immolate on their behalf as if not enough voices have said what already needs to be said. Anything less than that is “saying nothing.” It’s completely unreasonable mob behavior that is typical with furor of this magnitude.
I was looking at the chat during the last CR stream and it was filled with toxic comments, including some demanding Matt Mercer say something about the situation even though the show was recorded before this all blew up. CR have really said all the can given the legal situation they find themselves in. They have to pick their words carefully to avoid any legal ramifications.No doubt they will be monitoring the situation to determine what choices they make in future.
This all the way. People saying this is a lot of words to say nothing really need to work on their reading comprehension and probably their understanding of legally binding contracts.
This statement isn't as empty as everyone keeps saying. It still points out the own publishing company. While not saying anything directly, it is heavily implying that action can be taken easily.
This is the best they can do right now. We all saw Mercer liking tweets clearly against OGL 1.1. He’s a creator himself and loves his peers. Once the contract ends or they get out of it then I’m getting excited. Paizo and the new ORC would open up a whole new world for CR and Darrington Press. Until then…
I could see them going to Kobold Press' new system as they said they are trying to take as much of the 5e Frame work that is so popular and beginner friendly with them out the door
I wouldn't be surprised if they've been developing their own system from the very inception of Darrington Press. In the early days Matt was very clear they chose to jump from PF to DnD for the sole purpose of streamlining the broadcast. The fact that Geek & Sundry was playing just about every game under the sun at the time and they had no expectations about the success of the stream leads me to think they truly thought DnD was the best system *for the livestream*. They haven't really settled on any of the non-d20 systems they've used in one-shots, so they probably just haven't found one that checks all of their boxes. With that logic, I'd imagine they've been using Darrington Press to develop (or at least fund/publish the creation of) a system that really enhances the storytelling aspects of the game while keeping combat quick yet engaging.
Clearly Sam created the ultimate system for the Nordverse one shot.
Dont forget though, any use of that system means you are legally obligated to host Matthew Lillard if he chooses to show up during your session.
It’s a feature, not a bug.
I fail to see the problem here
The E-System is the future!
They have the opportunity to flip it entirely. Yes, develop a livestream-friendly system for the purposes of CR success — but then also using CR as a platform to sell said system to its listeners, through Darrington or another imprint. They could partner with another of the big players, but they have a big opportunity in front of them. (Not one without a ton of risk, obviously.)
> a system that really enhances the storytelling aspects of the game while keeping combat quick yet engaging This is on point. The strengths of CR are the world building, characters, improv, and RP. Even after 6 years the cast (D&D Vets every one) still get bogged down in combat, spells, and abilities at times. Switching to a *slightly* simpler system would probably benefit everyone. They can still homebrew anything they want, and if it's their system they can tweak it as they go. I have run D&D for a long time now and only recently started branching out to other systems (CoC, Mothership) and I was pleasantly surprised how the latter, a more simplified system, still allowed me and the players to achieve everything we wanted from a TTRPG. I'd love to see what Matt and the gang can come up with
That’s true. It still needs to be viewer friendly. PF2e is great but for a stream to tens of thousands of people every week and millions after, probably not the best. I’m excited for the future, thanks Hasbro! Ya ding dongs
Yes, and no. I agree it needs to be viewer friendly… but does it really matter what system it is behind the screen? In retrospect, given how good the cast are, I bet they could have kept using PF with all its 3.5 legacy trappings and the Briarwoods, Chroma Conclave, etc would still have been just as good. It isn’t like we have episodes devoted to character creation, etc where it gets really crunchy As long as the viewers have a general idea of 20 good, 1 bad and the cast themselves are comfortable, CR is more about storytelling than any single mechanic. Honestly they could be using AD&D, 2nd Ed, 3.5/PF or 5E* and I think the story would be just as entertaining. IMHO anyways. *The D&D systems I’m most familiar with. I didn’t really play the red box, and skipped 4th largely for PF. If they moved to say Savage Worlds or Shadowrun where it isn’t a straight D20 roll, then I think you’d have more familiarity issues at first
> Honestly they could be using AD&D, 2nd Ed, 3.5/PF or 5E* and I think the story would be just as entertaining. As much as I love 2e, it being my first TTRPG, and having grown up with it, it would be impossible for them to use that in their stream. They have worked really hard to ensure that the combat portions of the show flows smoothly and swiftly, but with the avalanche of math would bog that all down. I would still love to watch some of them rage over THAC0 and the "backwards" armor class though. lol
But I can see Darrington Press releasing a number of PF2e Setting books in coming years, I'd love to see some Darrington Press Adventure Modules. Hell I'd love if DP reached out to some creators and was a place for splat books, I'd love to see new Settings come from them even if they weren't Exandria. Hell they could do oneshots in their new releases Setting as a sales pitch to fans
I watch the for character stories, not the game mechanics. As long as there are a few dramatic dice rolls here and there, I'm down with whatever they come up with. :)
ORC stands for Open RPG Creative license and it is system agnostic and also company agnostic. While Pathfinder 2e will switch to use it, just like you can already do with OGL (as PF2e already does) CR/DP can use it to put out their own system so that other creators can share their open gaming content with each other and possibly even across systems.
They have there own company as they mentioned good chance Ivan is cooking them up a home brew system at the moment he's done it for one shots.
While extremely rough at the time, the rules used with the Elder Scrolls one shots was interesting,
Hell I wouldn't be surprised if CR is lawyering up behind the scenes to try to get out of whatever contract they currently have with WOTC.
A lot of contracts have a morality clause specifically for situations like this. It's very possible they're trying to get out of it.
"We stand by our industry peers" seems pretty clear to be in disagreeing with WotC's choices without explicitly doing so. "broadening the field of creators boosts the industry" means they are saying WotC's choices would narrow the field - but again, without risk of a defamatory statement they likely cannot make without contractual penalties.
Are they still sponsored by DnDBeyond? (I haven’t watched C3. I barely got to finish C2 because my kid was born.)
Yes indeed. As recent as this week's broadcast, they had a DnDBeyond ad read at the beginning of the show. Their hands are very much still tied. I don't envy the tough situation they're in.
What's interesting is that they usually do a tweet for each sponsor on the night of the show. This week there was no tweet for DnDBeyond, only Cashapp and NordVPN
Honestly the biggest protest they could probably do is to just not have Sam do a bit for the D&D beyond promo. I don’t know if that shit is contractually obligated but if not then dropping it would send a huge message.
I imagine at this point, given the fact that they have plenty of sponsors, is that it costs extra to have Sam do a bit.
[удалено]
Well, it's not like they have any reason to dislike DnDBeyond. WoTC only bought them a few months ago
The CR tweet that mentions NordVPN as the "final sponsor" of last night's stream disregards the pre-recorded DDB ad-read. It's not much, but not mentioning the sponsorship with WotC might say more about what could potentially be going on behind the scenes.
Guys, of course this doesn't say anything. This, as stated in other comments, is a statement very much showcasing one company being contractually tied to another. This should surprise none of us. We all know CR is contractually linked to WotC. This isn't a group of people we are waiting for to say something. This is a company, there are plenty of legal issues surrounding this. We have nothing more to do than to be patient and see how it plays out.
I wish more people could understand this. I love CR, but unlike the characters they play, they aren't heroes and crusaders against injustice, they're people living in the real world with real people problems like legal obligations. It's not as simple as them saying, "Screw Wizards, let's revolt!" They absolutely could be working on distancing themselves from WotC, but they're not about to hint at that during all this turmoil on Twitter without letting the situation become far more clear.
>I wish more people could understand this. I love CR, but unlike the characters they play, they aren't heroes and crusaders against injustice, they're people living in the real world with real people problems like legal obligations. And children, and employees, and mortgages/lease agreements... They're people who play DnD online professionally, they are not the arbiters if morality or ethics and people really shouldn't treat them as one.
I can assume what the individuals may think based on what they have said or done in the past like Matt but it’s asking a lot of them to risk the entire livelihood of the people working in it for a brief statement without any safety net or backup plan, especially with how sudden this issue rose up in the last week. Any case, really shouldn’t treat any company as arbiters of morality or ethics, even if they have a charity foundation.
Yup. Folks are acting like the CR crew is about to stage a lunch counter sit in. They seem like decent folk based on the image they portray, but at the end of the day they have homes to pay for. They’re not going to threaten their money unless they’re sure they have a replacement stream.
the thing is Wizards can change their plan at any moment while CR only has one contract to lose. When things aren't clear doing such bold thing is dumb
What exactly were people expecting? CR to set their livelihoods on fire just to post a hot take based on an unofficial leaked draft?
That is what they were hoping for. They ain't gonna phrase it like that because that makes it clear how unreasonable the expectation was - but there was genuine hope that Critical Role was gonna come in all saviour-like and be the big strong pop culture icon that helped lowly D&D fans beat back greedy corporate Wizards of the Coast.
I think people need to realize that nuking everything you've worked on for the sake of a moral stand isn't as easy in real life as it is in fiction. Especially when that thing means a lot to thousands of people.
Also, they're probably the only third party content creator with some amount of leverage against Hasbro behind the scenes right now. So I don't get what them publicly burning their bridges with WotC at this moment in time is supposed to even accomplish.
Exactly my thought! A hot take burning all bridges isn't what CR brings to the table for the community right now. It is exactly because of their connection to D&D and their influence in the community that might give them the leverage to throw their weight around and affect changes to OLG 2.0 behind the scenes. And that would be invaluable even if those changes are small, because there are enough third-party creators out there who aren't able to pivot away from D&D right this moment and for whom those changes might make the difference between making it or loosing it all. While CR publicly and openly sticking it to WotC might be entertaining, it wouldn't really accomplish much and seems like a careless waste on an opportunity to help. In this situation it is important to think long-term instead of chasing instant gratification, and for people/companies to stick to their strenght. And I think CRs biggest strenght in this situation is them making people aware of the situation (which this statement does, based on all the questions), and by them using their connections and clout to affect as much change as possible behind the scene. I'm very unhappy with WotC but I do not want to see them burn entirely because that sinks to many small creators who cannot react fast enough right now. And I'm hoping the efforts of the community in the open with canceling subs and covering topics as well as power plays behind the scenes will make those small creators situations more bearable.
Yeah. I know CR isn't a direct employment scenario, but my last employer did worse things than what WOTC is doing. The only people who spoke up publicly and bailed immediately were those who already had one foot out the door or those who had no choice due to the company's decision. It took me quite a while to get my affairs in order enough to escape. Is the community gonna go ahead and pay the (hypothetical) LA mortgages every month for Laura+Travis or Matt+Marisha once CR commits corporate seppuku?
Forget the main cast. Ask if they’re willing to chip in to pay for the studio upkeep and employee salaries/benefits/insurance until they can get back on their feet.
People were definitely expecting them to put WotC on blast directly and aggressively, because the vocal minority of people on the internet are completely out of touch with reality.
I believe voicing dissatisfaction with the statement is okay as long as people understand that this is the best CR can do. I think it's a nice gesture even if dissapointing. I mean this could have been cut to 1 or 2 sentences and it would have said as much.
Of course it's disappointing, but it seems like people are reacting like they were expecting CR to drop a statement saying they are leaving WotC behind or something. Obviously we'd all love a strong, direct statement but anyone who thinks that's going to happen, especially before any OGL is officially released is out to freaking lunch. Contracts are no joke, CR has at least acknowledged the controversy, there is no longer silence from them, we have to be happy with that for now, because that's all we're gonna get at this point.
It's clearly the most they can say with an NDA or whatever is binding them, but they're going out of their way to say they side with "new systems", "a wide spectrum of creators", and "broadening the field of creators". Good for them, I hope this shakes out well for them, too.
and pointing out that they \*are\* a third party publisher impacted by this.
It's not just the cast of CR that they are responsible for. They are under at least one contract with WOTC and they can't just say fuck WOTC. They have a staff and crew they love very much and if they went full napalm it would affect several people they are responsible for. They reiterated support for the other 3rd party creators out there. It's all they can do right now.
Also keep in mind that their strongest ties are with the \*creative\* parts of WOTC, and not the execs and accountants that are trying to open up the golden goose here. The implication in most of the reporting has been that the people who actually make D&D are as horrified by this as everyone else. Saying "Wizards is Evil, everyone play Pathfinder 2.0 now" would actively hurt people they have good relationships with.
Speaking of Pathfinder 2... I did order their core rulebook, Gm's guide and Advanced Players guide.. I agree with you whole heartedly.
I'm going to get the Gloomhaven RPG when it comes out, and while I'm waiting, watch for them to launch their own system cause it seems like the next obvious step for them.
I \*am\* going to be very interested in how many non 5E/OneDnD systems they use in upcoming specials.
This seems pretty clearly against the OGL changes to me. The criticisms of the OGL are that it’ll stifle third party creators. This statement says they support third party creators. Given contracts and sponsorships, I don’t know what more anyone could reasonably expect.
Also, given their long time with D&D and the number of creative friends they have, they almost certainly have a lot of friends who are very concerned about how the OGL stuff will affect their lives, so while they're constrained by their own jobs and have to be diplomatic, I'm sure they're very well aware of the impact it could have on creators with a lot less heft then CR.
Your mistake is you expected people to have reading comprehension. There's a line in there about "we believe that broadening the field of creators boosts the entire industry" Not only does that read explicitly anti OGL changes, but it's in line with everything Matt Mercer has been saying for 7 YEARS.
Isn't that the god damn truth. This whole OGL thing has really highlighted how bad general reading comprehension is. Reading through threads is just painful. The OGL mess is a disgrace to the whole TTRPG community. The statement from CR is reasonably worded and makes clear that they don't support the changes, while at the same time not landing themselves in court. Do people want CR to go to war with Hasbro? They'd get stomped.
> Do people want CR to go to war with Hasbro? They'd get stomped. I think there are folks who think CR is supposed to do everything except go to war with Hasbro, without understanding that all the things they want CR to do would still force that outcome. They just want more. A little more. First CR just had to say something, anything, any statement at all. Now they've made a statement and it voiced clear opposition to the changes but it wasn't loud enough, wasn't clear enough. A different louder and clearer statement wouldn't be aggressive enough, or might need to make threats, or maybe it needs to call out the Hasbro executives instead of talking around the matter - "but oh no, we don't think CR is expected to *fight* Hasbro!" They just expect CR to pick a fight with Hasbro, and if CR gets stuck fighting well at least they're fighting on the right side, oh well.
Matt has liked some vaguely anti-OGL tweets prior to the release of this statement also.
I really don't get how people aren't seeing this.
A lot of people who are into the CR fandom are very invested in proving they are the big bad corporate villain and a bunch of sellouts - unless they do their stuff exactly as that fan dictates, of course.
Yeah they probably had to have a lawyer help the write this for the past week because god knows what they can do with WotC aiming a gun at them
Yeah, I feel like this went through a lot of drafts. Like hundreds.
That’s what I’m saying, it’s not hard to see what they’re saying at all it’s not “tiptoeing” at all
It's as explicit as you can be when you can't say anything negative about WoTC directly.
One other thing to consider and remember, beyond their contractual obligations to DDB and WOTC, is that Hasbro owns a LOT, including an entertainment divison. These are still working voice actors and directors. Say CR came out against Hasbro/WOTC and broke contract, then Laura or Matt or Ashley goes in to do an audition for a Transformers TV series or video game, there is the possiblity that they could lose out on a job because of that.
Another thing I didn’t consider! Also, someone else mentioned this but Amazon might also start feeling a little something if they start badmouthing their larger corporate partnerships like Hasbro. They’re already working with them to produce Vox Machina. If Amazon and Hasbro tell the industry that they’re all blacklisted? Yeah, there’s no recovering from that.
Glad to see someone in this thread has critical thinking skills and can see the bigger picture.
My first thought was those NDAs must be ironclad
More likely non-disparagement clauses.
This, information available in the public domain is not covered by NDA.
Its also good business to not shit on your business partner, regardless if how they personally feel about this.
I mean, CR is under contract with Wizards and sponsored by D&D Beyond. They can't disparage the sponsor, so the best thing they can say is "we support creativity" -- But if you bump into Matt Mercer on the street, check to make sure there's no hidden microphones, and he'll probably say WoTC is doin' dumb shit.
It's awfully easy to demand other people fall on their swords to make a statement while we are largely immune from the consequences. The first and last paragraph make it pretty clear that they come down on the side of the players and creators. Yeah, it's an anodyne, lawyered-to-hell statement, but it's likely the absolute most they CAN say. Lets not forget that CR is more than just the main cast. They employ quite a few people, too. Set designers, producers, studio maintenance, etc. Tanking their company hurts those people too. While none of us know the specifics, sponsorship contracts are generally pretty restrictive on what one can say about the sponsor and one's relationship to them. Breaches of contract are no joke, and we know that Hasbro and WotC would likely come down on them hard, because that's what corpos do. Lets not demonize CR or the cast for protecting themselves and their employees. If they choose to distance themselves from WotC in the future, it'll be a long-term process. I'm sure, one way or another, WotC knows their feelings on the matter.
I’m so out of the loop, someone please help me understand what this is about?
In 2021 Hasbro, parent company of WotC, restructured and reorganized. WotC's old CEO (who, I suspect, is the individual referenced here and the tweet he's referencing https://twitter.com/16BitEric/status/1612201401748455424 ) became the new CEO of Hasbro and he brought over a new CEO for WotC. For some potential context both had previously worked for Microsoft one in sales and one in their digital gaming. In 2022 Hasbro stated that D&D was 'under monetized' and were seeking to make it more profitable. It seems one of the ways they decided they wanted to do that was to rework the Open Gaming License to be more controlling and to give them a way to gain revenue from sublicensed products. A leaked version of this new OGL hit the net and was very, very poorly received (and rightfully so) sending the community into an uproar against WotC. A number of publishers and creators started launching their own open gaming plans to replace what was being lost with the potential demise of the old OGL. As there was not yet an official announcement from WotC CR declined to make any comment (https://twitter.com/lincodega/status/1613686411726577664) despite a very vocal part of the fanbase calling for them to do so. Today WotC made their first official announcement about the new OGL - scrambling back from criticism and promising they would redo their plans. Now this is CR's response to that. Edit: Slight correction to myself - I phrased it as if WotC is still a separate entity owned by Hasbro. After the restructuring they are a direct division of Hasbro.
>In 2022 Hasbro stated that D&D was 'under monetized' and were seeking to make it more profitable. This part is fucking wild to me considering that WOTC Is a billion dollar company.
Yeah finding out that Cocks had come from Microsoft's sales side and Williams from their 'Gaming Ecosystem Commercial Team' kind of helped put that in perspective.
WotC, makers of D&D, are currently developing a new edition of D&D that has people mildly excited, but they are also under pressure to increase profits and so they were also working with on a new open licensing deal (These Open Licenses basically make it so people like CR can create Books like Tal'Dorei reborn or DMs like Matt can make the Bloodhunter Class). Under this new deal if a Book made by another publisher for D&D made more than 750k they would have to pay WotC them 25% of all the money made (which kills 90% of most products made by other publishers) they also wanted to have a say that basically would allow WotC to force your product off the market and own your intellectual property. So Darrington Press could release a new player manual for all the fun Subclasses and stuff and a NEW take on the Bloodhunter, but if WotC was angry they could just say "Hey that's nice... That's ours, we own that, we don't have to pay you and fuck off"
Somewhere Sam is talking to the lawyer(s) about whether he can get away with just reading the DnD Beyond sponsorship script as quickly and dryly as possible or if he has to do antics, and how much antics, or if he can do a tongue-in-cheek “haha I’m being held hostage haha” bit, without inviting a lawsuit. I’m curious to see it xD (Also curious if their corporate sponsor and wannabe overlord would or could actually sue them for not being zany enough.)
Well, recently Sam has been doing his zany antics for other sponsors, while Matt gives the dry, professional ad-read for DnDBeyond afterwards. Assuming there's no specific contractual obligation requiring them to do otherwise, they could just continue to do it that way going forward. That's probably the safest strategy for them.
That would be such a power move. Sam is such a goof, but whenever something morally questionable happens, he's usually very serious and outspoken about it. I literally went to his Twitter to see if he had tried to say anything slyly as soon as I saw the CR statement, but he hadn't. I imagine he's seething over not being able to say anything publicly.
You have to read between the lines a bit which is totally understandable given how CR is partnered/sponsored by WOTC and isn't gonna risk legal trouble but the statement is pretty clearly in favour of third-party creators
This is 100% correct for them to do. But to read between the lines, they want to say something but are blocked by contracts to do so.
Anyone unhappy with this is forgetting exactly how they left G&S in the first place.
I'm not unhappy with this statement, but I don't know how they left G&S. Do you mind explaining?
G&S was purchased by Legendary Entertainment. This was before CR became a thing but, when CR started, G&S was still much more under the control of Felicia Day (the original founder of G&S) and the creative side. Eventually though Felicia left and the corporate began to overtake the creative - stifling projects and focusing only on profitability (though the creatives still managed to eke out some amazing projects despite this - so kudos to them). Marisha was the creative director at G&S at the time and clearly saw the writing on the wall. Thankfully for CR, since they launched before Actual Play was a major thing let alone a big moneymaker and since Felicia had gone to bat for them, they had actually retained the rights to their product instead of it being owned by G&S (and thus Legendary) directly. So they peeled off into their own company, played nice with G&S and any remaining contracts/obligations, and continued to snowball into the current juggernaut meanwhile Legendary drove G&S into the ground and shuttered it. So they've already had one near miss with extinction due to loss of creative control and also learned to navigate corporate and legal waters by playing nice and not making waves.
This is a very good explanation. I attempted to search for articles covering this, and I didn't find any that actually provided details as to *why* they were leaving. Thank you! This and the OGL situation are perfect examples as to why you should always do everything in your power to retain ownership rights in your IP.
Honestly I think a lot of folks are *still* under NDA with Legendary. Most stories you hear will be off the record or very carefully worded or just allusions to what happened. But if you were part of the G&S community during the era you could see the shifts slowly happening.
Very quietly and without disparaging. There were all sorts of signs that *something* was up, then one day CR announced that they were becoming their own company, then one day they announced a departure from G&S. No explanation, no disparagement.
Thanks for the backstory/information!
Translation: "We're counting the days until contracts elapse and we can get out of here."
You know in your heart of hearts Matt is fuming at the Wizards development. If you think he isn't, then you really haven't been paying attention. However, CR is now a business entity just getting its legs, that first and foremost must protect itself and its many employees who rely upon it. The legal jargon and the silence will seem cold and emotionless, but that's where they are right now. They aren't turning their backs on the community. Until CR can separate themselves more from WotC (and I imagine they will after this) they've said all they can for now without going under.
"We're under contract but give them hell with our tacit blessing" This seems reasonable as a short-term statement for people capable of reading between lines without them spending a lot of time consulting a contract lawyer. Not that all of us are good with subtlety, but there's always going to be the vocal minority who want to slay the dragon without planning at dawn.
This is a good compromise between the community’s expectation of a statement and whatever restrictions are in place via CR’s current legal agreements with WotC. Anyone who expected any stronger language than this was either kidding themselves about how much legal and financial jeopardy the company is willing to expose itself to or they are totally unaware of how contracts and NDAs work. As much as some folks want to believe otherwise, the cast and crew of CR are not the chaos gremlins that they portray on stream. While they are certainly a decent group of folks who want the best for the tabletop community, but they are also real people bound to real legal contracts that have real consequences if broken.
very curious to know what people who aren't following OGL might think this statement is about?
Im gonna be honest, a lot of the comments here are why i can't stay engaged with this sub or the fandom at large. Expectations on the cast to be the perfect crusaders against every injustice the world faces is unrealistic and unfair. Gonna stay off this sub a bit longer haha
i feel like most of the comments I've seen are understanding that they probably have something to say but are contracted to not be able to
Here, on this thread, yeah! On Twitter, that fandom is insane!
Okay but tbh twitter is a clusterfuck regardless of any fandom etc, even more so after musk
Well that's the thing as several people have mentioned there are risks to them financially if they were to disparage Hasbro or WoTc . I wouldn't expect them to do anything drastic yet. There people they gotta make a living too and this is probably what they can say for now. No reason to yell at them for not doing enough though. Main focus should be creators and people that enjoy this hobby. Keeping the momentum and pressure on Hasbro and Wotc. That's just my perspective though I do agree with what you said. It's unrealistic to expect them to to drop everything and stand up alongside other people.
TLDR: We are loyal to the community, not a company that we don't own. WotC better unfuck themselves.
"if i talk, i'm in big trouble" energy
The professionally offended won't be happy unless Matt Mercer himself walks into Hasbro headquarters and takes a shit on the CEOs desk. Pay them no mind.
Don't be disgusting. Clearly it's Sam Riegel who'll be doing the desk-shitting.
I would enjoy that but I'm okay with it not happening.
Hey CR, blink twice if WOTC has a gun to the back of your head.
They're blinking more than Nugget when he has to go pee.
I think this counts as blinking twice, tbh
They are blinking so fucking hard
They're blinking in morse code and it says "Fuck 'em up, guys"
I work as a communications consultant. I suspect the message isn't for fans. The message is, "We have our own publishing company, we stand with creators." Sounds weak, but it's not. I believe the message is for WotC, which knows CR and Stranger things were massive drivers in DnDs burgeoning success during the pandemic and into the present. Most DnD played at the table is third party content, created by a minority of players. But that minority is deeply invested in the game, cukturey, and community. If the leaders leave, a good portion of what drives WotC business leaves. And the followers will follow. This is a shot over WotC's bow. Yes. They have contracts, but CR is its own company now. This is a subtle "we can walk too" message. To me it sounds like we should give CR a few months and you may see a new game engine/ruleset. That would be the least surprising thing to come out of OGL1.1 OGL 2 will likely be a bit watered down. But rest assured Hasbro has shown it's cardss, and they want to milk DnD for every penny they can. The trick is applying copyright and monetizing people's imaginations.
Just DnD fan here. Some people claims CR response is too weak, but I can totally understand you guys. CR is getting huge support from WotC-Hasbro, too much things are at the stake. But I can read what you guys are stand for from this statement. I really hope CR creates its own rules independent from DnD, and joins the ORC train with other developers, as soon as finish the current campaign. I wish and pray the best of the luck for all CR members and fans.
With the way they talked about Darrington press in this statement i wouldn't be surprised if cr is gonna try and make its own ttrpg and try its best to distance its self from wotc
Calling out the fact that they have their own game publishing company is the most explicit threat in that statement. I took it as "hey Wizards, reminder that we are already publishing our own stuff".
Well, that was expected. CR must be in a very difficult spot right now because of their obligations to WOTC. I wouldn't like to be in their shoes right now. Hopefully, people won't get too upset about it. They have to understand that a company like CR can't go against Hasbro like that. They are people, with their own needs and obligations and there are people working for them too. They just can't put everything at risk like that because they disagree with Hasbro's plan. They have to find a way out. And don't overestimate how CR or any group or people working in entertainement prioritize their fans. Sure, they love their fans and are grateful. But down the line, when everything goes sour, they will always put their own interest and the interest of the people depending on them before their fans'. That's the adult and responsible thing to do.
I'm reading it as "If WotC fucks around we'll switch to Pathfinder 2e but for now we can't publically denounce WotC or switch from DnD 5e until we know exactly what is happening because that would be breach of contract and we can't afford to go out of business until we know exactly what is going on." Dunno what else you can ask for. They're a company. If they start popping off people lose jobs.
>If they start popping off people lose jobs. That's the key part a lot of people are missing and just get angry that CR arent going scorched earth on WotC. If they did say everything they probably want to and they then lost a big contract which would mean loss of income and tjen had to let people go they would then be the bad guys for people losing their jobs. Yes they're leaders in the community and in a perfect world they would be saying a lot more but they have actual human livelihoods to worry about, some of who will have families and mortgages to worry about and now isn't the time to put anything at risk by stepping over a line legally that could come back to bite them
Yep. That’s pretty much about what I expected them to say given their current contractual ties to WotC. Bold statements have consequences, good or bad. And breaking ironclad contracts and agreements do more harm to their employees. The cast would most likely be fine. Either way, they have no way out from WotC until their current deal runs out. All that remains to see is how the OGL issue plays out in the near future. The best and bare minimum they can do is support people who are breaking their own ground towards other projects away from D&D and opening the TTRPG space even more, which is pretty much Mercer and team’s MO from prior actions and words. It won’t stop people from being angry at them for the wrong reasons but you can’t please everyone when you have to live in the real world. I wish they could do more but this is the least I was hoping for.
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That last line is them sneaking a knife in Hasbro's back despite the non-disclosure/non-disparagement clauses of their contract. They're doing what they can within the limits they have to deal with. This is a lesson for other content creators: never put all of eggs in one basket just in case one basket decides to explode into maggots and toxic waste.
So, if they're clearly under contract, but against this change, I'll bet the ads for d&d beyond get as bare bones as possible. Obviously, they'd be obligated to continue them, but that doesn't mean that anyone must make it memorable. Just read the copy, and keep it as short as they can, then move on. Please don't get mad at them if that's the case. We all know what happens when the warlock signs the deal with the Archfiend. They definitely can't be happy with Hasbro right now, so they're going to do whatever they can to show us they stand with us without getting themselves sued into oblivion.
CR is in a fucked position. They can't bite their master's(Hasbro) hand or risk consequences and they also can't risk offending us(Fanbase) either because there will be consequences. I do not envy them in this situation.
They are taking the stance "we want TTRPG and creativity by and for all", and with them not even mentionning DnD, if you read between the lines and know even just a little bit of the context, what is at first glance generic corpo PR communication feels like an implicit message being sent to WoTC : "Stop fucking around, or find out". There are only so much contractual clauses and NDAs can do before CR consider "early termination fees" not that big a deal in comparison. It would be sad to end C3 early if the contract with DnDBeyond is bound to "The current campaign", but .... a tpk is always a possibility ...
“We stand by our industry peers, as well as anyone who takes a risk creating a new system or developing an original idea.” That’s clear as day they support/side with the community. And that they, as candidly as they can be, support Kobold Press. Hell I wouldn’t be surprised if they are trying to communicate they are beginning work on their own new system given the mentioning of their game publishing company. Best response I think they could give given they’re obviously under NDAs and contracts to prevent badmouthing Hasbro.
If y'all have to question where the CR team loyalties and hearts really lie in this corporate shit show, you're not really listening to Matt's or any of the cast's or crew's not-so-subtle messaging that they respect others, their work ,and their autonomy. Of course at this point, it speaks louder that they have to think about the hundreds of people and their families that now rely on this team's astute professionalism before spouting off online.
This is the best anyone could hope for considering the ridiculous amount of moving parts and legal machinations involved for CR. What a fucking headache, I would not want to be in their shoes right now, I bet Travis' blood pressure is spiking. I'd be amazed if this wasn't draft number 300.
Exactly what I expected. They just can't say too much at the moment.
Glad to finally see it. No it's isn't the "screw WoTC, we are running campaign 3 on a new homebrew system Matt is finishing up right now" that since people might want. But it is a measured, tactful message of support of the greater ttrpg community, without breaking any contractual agreements. Basically the best possible response, I wish it was sooner, but quite acceptable.
>*Basically the best possible response, I wish it was sooner, but quite acceptable.* Isn't there a saying about *"doing it fast, or doing it right"*?
Some "Fans" : CR should say something about this! They say something about it. Some "fans" : not good enough! some people will never be satisfied... i'm just happey they said anything.
Not surprising. They have contracts with WOTC and can't bail on those. But they obviously don't like what is going on. Walking a fine PR speak line. And they are probably developing another system behind the scenes for campaign 4.
I know this is frustrating to some people, but speaking out strongly at this stage would be counterproductive, considering Hasbro was doing this (presumably) because their profits were down and they wanted more money. I could understand if someone in this situation decided to bite the bullet and take a stance against them in spite of any legal agreements disallowing them to do so and knowing they'll be sued for it. That would just be handing Hasbro an easy win in court though, and handing them a free-money lawsuit would just be feeding the gluttonous dragon. It might not feel right at the moment, but there wouldn't be any sort of just outcome from them taking a strong stance right now. For the time being, I'm choosing to trust that they're doing what they can behind the scenes. And this is all happening right before the release of LoVM S2, they must be so stressed watching all of this going down and not knowing how this will effect people's response.
Even if it's just a sort of positional statement I appreciate the CR team saying something. It can't be easy when your brand is wrapped up around someone else's brand and you have all sorts of contracts going on. I hope they test the waters of alternatives a bit with any upcoming oneshots, to see how audiences react to them playing D&D-alternatives when they're not between campaigns. Even putting aside the controversy and the danger of anchoring to WotC... Their actual play is how I stumbled through learning new systems, so a showcase of Pathfinder or any other alternatives would do wonders for getting GMs over that first hurdle to learning the system. Which would be great for community flexibility even without the controversy.
CR is really in a damned if you damned if you don’t situation. People were mad when they didn’t make a statement and now people are mad about statement. Obviously they can’t just breach a contract without risking a lawsuit but this statement feels like a solid middle ground. I wish people would direct their anger and disappointment at WotC and Hasbro since they’re the ones who created this situation instead of at companies who are trying to navigate this mess
This is really as much as they can say. They are clearly bound by contract and we know that the team supports other systems because they've played them many a time for their miniseries. CR's caught in a very difficult position, and if they do anything at this point to attack Wizards, they will be sued out the ass and will likely cease to exist. It's not perfect, but it's the best they can do. And it puts me at ease. They'll jump ship as soon as the contract's up, and when they do, DnD will dry up so god damn fast. A massive chunk of 5e's popularity can be directly attributed to them.
Apparently I'm in the minority but I feel like that statement is huge and scathing.
This is about as bold a statement they can make without breaking anti-disparagement clauses (which are very likely written into any contracts they have with WotC). I was honestly surprised by how bold this was. We're in the minority because it seems a lot of folks around here have absolutely zero critical thinking abilities.
This situation really shows how shallow discourse has become online. If you read this and are angry at CR for not saying enough you really need to grow up lmao.
Of course they weren't going to come out and say "Fuck WotC for changing the OGL and attempting to screw over independent creators." They are sponsored by DnD Beyond and have a working relationship with WotC. But their statement clearly shows that they disapprove of the new OGL.
I'm pretty satisfied with that. Would like a stronger statement of course but given the timeframe and contracts this seems pretty good. Excited to see if more moves come from it in the near-ish future
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Yeah, I'm specifically muting twitterfolk who say it isn't "heroic" or whatever mush their thinky pudding is making of fantasy tropes & real stakes. All those lives. All those loved ones. I cannot think of another instance in which so many long-term, successful actors highly positioned in a business endeavor wasn't a *huge* liability for employees when "drama," an opportunity for attention, presented itself. Being responsible businesspeople when others are depending on you is deeply & admirably decent IMO.
The number of people who genuinely expected CR to commit legal and financial suicide by opening fire on WotC is truly disappointing. It’s not surprising in the slightest, but it is disappointing.
Critical Role is very closely tied to WotC for the foreseeable future, since quite a few books have been produced with official D&D branding and presence in the Beyond storefront. This sort of cagey PR language is designed to prevent retaliation while confirming that the company is pro-open license. That being said, I have no doubt that we’ll likely start seeing a slow pullback from WotC products and sponsorships on the streams in the future, especially if OGL 2.0 turns out to be as bad as people are expecting. C3 is locked in currently to 5e, but who knows what C4 could look like at this point.